Yeah it's time for another wish list, this time the theme is models that need replacing.



PLASTIC CATACHANS - What can I say about these lil guys that hasn't been said already? Well I can say I love them, I've bought and used more of them than any other plastic kit (except maybe Imperial Militia). But boy... OK start with fixing the bad anatomy and grotesque muscles. Then take a took at what real jungle soldiers wear. Add some sleaved arms, some helmets, some hats, basically anything but Rambo. Oh and can we get all of the special weapons on a sprue? Thanks.



PHOENIX LORDS - In their day they were the best things GW ever made. Today they're laughable and super-deformed with hats bigger than their bodies.



WARP SPIDERS - Fast agile troops lugging guns bigger than they are. With penises on their heads. Back to the drawing board.



ORC BOARS - Being charged by two tons of angry pork chops would be pretty terrifying, but not when we look at these models.



CHAOS WARRIORS - again I love these little guys more than is moral or proper. With their perfect posture, their calm marching, their weapons held neatly before them for inspection, they make perfect Adeptus Custodeus. Too bad they're supposed to be savage drooling CHAOS warriors. They need to have seperate arms, better poses and a lot more options to make them look properly savage.

What do y'all think?

Your forgot circus hat Nagash

What about Gorilla-hand High Elf spears?

Ragnar

Malekith

Malus Darkblade

Abbadon

Logan

(the last two if only to up their scale to fit with the plastic Termies instead of the older metal ones)

Ifurita wrote:Your forgot circus hat Nagash

As much as I would like to I doubt I ever could. But he's OOP and has no rules in any case.

HFJor wrote:What about Gorilla-hand High Elf spears?

I had too many elfs already. And they're servicable if flawed. The penis hats do more damage in my mind than the man hands.

But the others just fail. Outright fail.

Ifurita wrote:Your forgot circus hat Nagash

Supposedly Morley is going to redo Nagash (in an unofficial way, seeing as he's no longer with GW).

You heard the story behind the head, right? It wasn't the original.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:But boy... OK start with fixing the bad anatomy and grotesque muscles. Then take a took at what real jungle soldiers wear.

What, you mean like this?





Now don't you tell me real jungle soldiers don't run around shirtless in sleaveless vests ALL the time, because I know they do!

Also, Catachans should have the option to take an assault cannon as a special weapon.

Ork warbuggies should make the top 5.

Not all the pheonix lords are bad, Maugen Ra still looks ace.

Warp Spiders are nowhere near having a monopoly on "rediculously big guns" and their use by an agile troop is hardly unrealistic for a race that uses anti-gravity plates to hold up their tea.

Boars look good, they actuially look like pigs. (with big horns)

Chaos warriors shouldn't automatically be screaming slavering lunatics. Watch the opening of Mark of Chaos, THOSE are chaos warriors.

And how does your list not include things like Chaos Ogres, Dragon Ogres, Marauders (catachans with hygiene problems :p), Biovores, etc.

Chaos warriors looks fine. They are a bit static, but they look great and get that implacable wall of steel and muscle feel across. Also chatachans aren't supposed to look like guys out of platoon, they are supposed to look like ramboesque men who fight the things out of predator.

Any Ork model that still has second edition orks on it needs a remake. Now.

The entire Dark eldar line needs a remake. Now.

Warp spiders, reapers, and any of the old megahelmet eldar need a remake. NOW.

Any special character model that was around when the third edition codex was released needs a remake.

Gargoyles and broodlords need a remake.

Latest Landspeeders: Looks cool, horrible to build.

I'm afraid I can't really agree with some of your choices, KK. Aside from the boars and the catachans, the other models, while old, are still well made and look great when painted well. Sure, the sculptors could do some great stuff with redoing those pieces now, but I don't think it would be all that spectacular in comparison to redoing the catachans as you've mentioned.

My 5 would be:
Vampire Counts Zombies - for something that is decaying and falling apart, they actually look bigger in death then when they were alive. The new skeleton kit is awesome, and a new zombie kit should be more along those lines of thinness and detail.

Skaven Clanrats: look really chunky and awkward, there's no grace to them at all. huge hands, and really funky tails.

Plaguebearers: the older ones were so much better - the current ones look like wax museum rejects on a hot summer day. They don't have the plague so much as diarrhea of the skin, it's just melting off of them. Fortunately they are rumored to be going to plastic soon so hopefully they look more like their original edition counterparts, as the bloodletters and daemonettes have.

Dark Eldar: as in most of the range. Just lanky stretched out odd looking, not sleekly disturbing and dangerous.

Ork Buggy: The rest of the range is now up to date, time to remove this last vestige of puny orks! A new buggy alongside the new battlewagon and trukks would look ace.

You know they did a recut of the landspeeder just recently right? I haven't tried one but apparently they are no longer the pita they once were.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

The Chaos Dread has to be in there somewhere as well. UGH!

They need to redo everything Fantasy so that it looks like how it does in the
Warhammer game. I'm talking Witch Elves in particular.

Nurgleboy77 wrote: The Chaos Dread has to be in there somewhere as well. UGH!

Let's stick with models that have at least very bad rules. Chaos Dread's are still a few steps below unusable.

....I think H.M.B.C. is contagious...

SchumaGorath wrote Warp spiders, reapers, and any of the old megahelmet eldar need a remake. NOW.

The 3rd edition reapers have skull helmets. The new ones are ugly.

Nearly all of the Dark Eldar, though some of the special characters are okay.

Marauders.

Catachans.

Chaos Dreadnought.

Ragnar Blackmane. Wasn't he released during the tail-end of Rogue Trader? He's very, um, two-dimensional.

Hmmmm.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

1. Empire Knights. Yes, I know they aren't all that old, but it's the Horses man. Ever since the Pistolier/Outriders were done in plastic (and very nice they are too, and quite bargainous) their horses have looked so puny. Now everything is getting spangly Cav models, it's getting worse! One more set, and they will start to resemble armoured blokes riding around on Great Danes.

2. Savage Orcs. We need plastics. I'm almost done with my all metal army, and even so, I'd by tonnes of the plastic ones! And so would other Orc players. Nothing puts the wind up your opponent like Savage Big'uns!

3. I'll second the Zombies. Not necessarily bad models per se, they do their job and look the part, but they just look so dated now compared to the rest of the range.

4. And to save Undead players from mental breakdowns, plastification of Black Knights (NOT Blood Knights). I've lost too many friends to madness when they tried to affix the arms! And do the skeletal steed whilst your at it. Might as well.

5. Last one? Blimey. I dunno. But I'd quite like to see...ummm. Oh yeah. Plastic Trolls. Available to two armies so far (Chaos Warriors and Orcs) and possibly soon to be three (Chaos Beasts). I'd really like them to be made in plastic! We know you can do it, so do it already!

1. Catachans
2. Ragnar Blackmane
3. Mephisto (the model isn't horrible, but he's not bald, pointing and screaming. I'd settle for a little more dynamic pose.)
4. Easterlings from LotR. Figs are fine, but you only get like 4 spearmen in the box, it should be 8.
5. Uruk Hai with crossbows in plastic.

I only play 40k and LotR, so I confined my answers to them. And I'd be shocked if the ork buggies aren't replaced by Wave 2.

GrimTeef wrote:
Plaguebearers: the older ones were so much better - the current ones look like wax museum rejects on a hot summer day. They don't have the plague so much as diarrhea of the skin, it's just melting off of them. Fortunately they are rumored to be going to plastic soon so hopefully they look more like their original edition counterparts, as the bloodletters and daemonettes have.

I have to agree. That's why I'm converting mine out of the new ghouls, like others have done.

My personal list:

1. Chimera - Dated, has only one weapon option on the accessory sprue, looks a bit goofy.

2. Leman Russ - See above.

3. Empire knights - For reasons outlined above.

4. Empire state troops - I don't care how recent these guys are, their detailing is incredibly over the top, they rank badly and go together even worse.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:PHOENIX LORDS - In their day they were the best things GW ever made. Today they're laughable and super-deformed with hats bigger than their bodies.

I doubt they could remake Baharoth any better than he is right now. Same goes for Fugean.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:CHAOS WARRIORS - again I love these little guys more than is moral or proper. With their perfect posture, their calm marching, their weapons held neatly before them for inspection, they make perfect Adeptus Custodeus. Too bad they're supposed to be savage drooling CHAOS warriors. They need to have seperate arms, better poses and a lot more options to make them look properly savage.

You're just annoyed because their weapons join at the elbow rather than the shoulder. These Chaos Warriors are perfect.

BYE

hmmm

1) ALL OF THE DARK ELDAR

2) The farseer model

3) the exorcist tank

4) Tau etherials look dumb

5) Goblin Fanatics

Wow,

So all of you people love


1. Rough Riders? Hello? Bueller, my god those models suck!! Not only do they suck but if you wanted one you would have to pay 12.00 for it.

2. Ratlings. Not as bad as rough riders, but give me a break.

3. Dragon Ogres/Chaos Ogre's

4. Skorcha's

5. Dark Eldar Wych's

The Bretonian Battle Standard Bearer. Hi, I'd like to ride a 3 ounce plastic horse with a three pound metal banner over my head. That's the ticket. Just TRY and put me on a hill baby.

Tomb Scorpions. Good grief, the only thing I've found that was worse to assemble was...


The Screaming Skull Catapult.


Bring back the old school hybrid Devastators. Sure you had to pin the arms, but once you did, they were solid, and they had a nice balance to them.

The Steam Tank. When I use as much green stuff to gap fill as they used metal to cast.. the model has more issues than Batman.

1. All Dark Eldar
2. Bloodthirster
3. Warp spiders
4. Abadabadon

Kid_Kyoto wrote:PLASTIC CATACHANS
PHOENIX LORDS
WARP SPIDERS
ORC BOARS
CHAOS WARRIORS

What do y'all think?

I think there are worse things out there, particularly if you're going after 40k *and* WFB.

- The Catachans are fine, as long as you don't paint them as "jungle" fighters. I think they'd look fine painted as Conscript / Penal Legion.
- The Phoenix Lords are good enough. As 40k Special Characters go, Lemartes is much worse than any of these.
- The Warp Spiders are also good - they match better in size and scale than the plastic Guardians, for example.
- Orc boars aren't the worst mounts GW sells, although they are old. I find them very cute. The recent Goblin Spiders from BfSP are very strange.
- And if you're going after WFB block infantry, why not pick at the HE / DE Spears? Or how about the newest Empire infantry with the wierd faces? Ugh.

No, there's much worse out there, but by and large, the newer stuff holds up quite well.

My 5:
- The wristo-Bolter / froghead Grey Knight termies are just plain goofy.
- The High Elf / Dark Elf infantry are horrible.
- The standard Leman Russ tank is sorely in need of an major (Mars Alpha-based) overhaul to match the new Baneblade and current Land Raider.
- The Dark Eldar line is abyssmal. Fortunately, this doesn't affect more than a couple people.
- And as far as silly goes, I'm going to point at the large-nippled WFB Chaos Marauders as the most in need of replacement.
____

cleanup formatting for clarity

1) Dark Elf Warriors: models so bad I think they've turned people off of building the army. How do you screw up evil elves?

2) Dark Eldar Warriors: apparently 1998-2002 were a bad time to scuplt evil elves. the weakest link in a weak range, DE warriors combine a lack of options, no posability, goofy looks, and a criminal lack of detail to create some of the worst basic troops in either game. Everything else in the range can be salvaged, painted around, or converted from somethign else, but the basic warriors are just bad.

3) Close Combat Scouts. Not that old, the BP/CCW scouts always look a little huncbacked a goofy to me. Considering that the old metals are better, no more expensive, and still available makes the current plastics seem awful.

4) Catachans are a bit rough, particularly given how aces the old metals are. The plastic cadian reinvented the look in a decent (although not great) way, while the plastic Cats are just goofy looking.

5) Ork Warbuggies and Wartracks: Just old and sad. Can be livened up, but the best ones are basically more scratch build than original model.

things like Rough Riders and DE wyches can be easily converted many different ways, and the old Tallarn RRs are much better than the "current" Attilans. Ratlings take a lot of flak, but they aren't bad models, they're just not for everybody. If you like cute little hobbits with sniper rifles, they're great!

Breton wrote:Bring back the old school hybrid Devastators. Sure you had to pin the arms, but once you did, they were solid, and they had a nice balance to them.

Umm... what???

You must be a considerably unique human being to want those abominations back in production. You would really prefer a model that is difficult to put together compared to the current Devs, which look the same, come with way more options, and 100,000 times easier to put together, not to mention the endless conversion opportunities that plastic gives over metal.

Really? You want a hybrid kit over a non-hybrid kit?

BYE

Agree on the horses for the empire knights, they are pants.

WHFB common gobbos. Look ultra lame compared to the new NGs.

How about bald screaming Spase Marien (hurr) sergeants? We all hate them.

How about the ENTIRE sisters of battle range? i mean come on. the minis havent been updated since like 2nd ed. granted, they still look pretty good (i LOVE the excorcist), but they would be WAAAAAAY better as multi pose plastics.

other than that, im not really sure.

1. Dark Eldar Warriors. Duh. I remember being so excited about Dark Eldar, having used Eldar Pirates in 2nd ed. So disappointed, sold them off within a week of buying.

2. Rough Riders. I've never seen anyone use the official models.

3. Flesh Hounds. And they were just released earlier this year! Ugly, ugly frill neck lizards. I'm using Dire Wolves instead.

4. Horrors. Nice models, a pain to put together. Although this might be a "careful what you wish for" like Daemonettes..

5. Abbadddon, The Littlest Chaos Lord. He's so cute!

BLARGAG!!! wrote:How about the ENTIRE sisters of battle range?

How about not. The Sisters of Battle models are still excellent - it's only the newer updates with the Fleur helmets that look bad. This is a very good-looking range of models that does not require any changes, only expansion.

Now granted, it is expensive, being all-metal.

And the way the models are designed, converting to plastic would necessarily lose a certain amount of detail due to the limitations of injection molding.

But there are far worse-looking things out there than the Sisters.

I don't have a problem with the old hybrid SM heavy weapons guys. Pin them and they stay together. Of course, I pinned all of my metal weapons to metal SM bodies I also had (fixed the balance issues, too). Of course, one of the plastic Heavy Bolter dudes in the current set gave me no end of grief. Needed pins (plastic rod this time) in the hips, through the torso (both arms), left hand, and metal pins linking the backpack and weapon ammo feed. Thus the universe balances out.

1. Defiler. A butt-ugglier model you won't see ... outside of .
2. Vostroyans. Bring back the Valhallans, I don't like GC guard, but they at least looked better.
3. IG RR. Give them trailbikes, FFS. I don't use any GW models for mine (well, apart from a few torsos & heads) as I can get some very nice scaled 28mm trailbikes from a local manufacturer.
4. Warp Spiders. Need some more variety. These models date back to 2nd ed (other aspects date back to RT and have had 3 redos) and are too static. Give us an exarch model FFS, with a suitable weapons loadout/options - like every other aspect has.
5. Lemon Russki. (it's an alcoholic 'girly drink'). The tank is so WW1 french it's embarrassing. The Chimera is based off a more modern vehicle - pick another tank from the same period and rivet it up.

Any form of tank, they are just too expensive and so down right ugle, eg deff dread [not completely ugly but cost $85 AUD]

chromedog wrote:I don't have a problem with the old hybrid SM heavy weapons guys. Pin them and they stay together.

Aside from the idea that no basic model should ever require pins, why would you want to go to a model that is more difficult to put together? The hybrid Devs were horrible models.

chromedog wrote:Of course, one of the plastic Heavy Bolter dudes in the current set gave me no end of grief.

I'm having even more trouble seeing that...

chromedog wrote:Vostroyans. Bring back the Valhallans, I don't like GC guard, but they at least looked better.

Another odd comment. Most of the people here seem to regard the Vostroyans as the most 40K-ish Guard models GW has ever made, as if someone actually took up the challenge of turning John Blanche's scribble art into an actual model. I think that's a good thing, and I don't see why Vostroyans and Valhallans can't co-exist.

BYE

1. Bike Warlocks - At least Nagash and the catachans got a sculpt. Not that it did them any good.

2. Ork warbuggies and wartraks - Retire them please.

3. Rough riders - Mounted cadians are the easiest option.

4. Orc boars - bigger please

5. High Elf armoured steeds - You thought boars looked bad.




Thank God they redid the Cold Ones

Ah, HBMC, I pin all my models. Metal or otherwise. Not pinning is anathema to me. I've pinned Banshee swords back onto their hands (pin into the blade and crossguard, and into the hand) that have come off due to rough handling (still in blister). I'm an old hand at it, having been doing so for around 18 years (when I learned it).

As to the plastic HB marine. This was due to the miscastings involved, and to keep the parts together while the glue set. All of the sub assemblies wanted to fly apart.
The nubbin on the left hand and the socket on the left hand (on gun) were the wrong shape (more pyramidal than cylindrical). A more regular cylindrical hole and pin held them together better.

The rod across the interior of the torso held both arms on and enabled me to fit the backpack, and both arms and weapon together properly without resorting to cutting and shunting.

The pin in the hips was simply to stop the torso tipping forward or backwards (as ball joints are wont to when imbalanced). Oh, and the whole thing was pinned onto it's resin base.

I have no problem with pinning, I just don't think that any model should require it. if the hybrid Devs required it, then they were not good models.

BYE

The Balrog, at least the metal one - a shocking kit to put together, I was applying filler like I would to the wall of my house.

Eldar Warwalker - yes the new one. It's ugly and looks like a fan conversion where someone has chopped up a grav tank for bitz.

Dark Eldar plastics - old, and they show it

Khorne Beserkers - one of their earliest plastics, nice as they are, they could achieve a lot if they did these again.

Abaddon - Old and undersized. Many other special characters have had a resculpt, the 13th Crusade campaign was an ideal opportunity for a resculpt that was missed IMO.

Warmaster wrote:Wow,

So all of you people love


1. Rough Riders? Hello? Bueller, my god those models suck!! Not only do they suck but if you wanted one you would have to pay 12.00 for it.

2. Ratlings. Not as bad as rough riders, but give me a break.

3. Dragon Ogres/Chaos Ogre's

4. Skorcha's

5. Dark Eldar Wych's

My dragon ogres and Shaggoths wipe their scaled posteriors with your #3, although they give on rough riders and ratlings.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

BLARGAG!!! wrote:How about the ENTIRE sisters of battle range?

How about not. The Sisters of Battle models are still excellent - it's only the newer updates with the Fleur helmets that look bad. This is a very good-looking range of models that does not require any changes, only expansion.

Now granted, it is expensive, being all-metal.

And the way the models are designed, converting to plastic would necessarily lose a certain amount of detail due to the limitations of injection molding.

But there are far worse-looking things out there than the Sisters.

I have to agree... The worst parts of the SoB line are generally the items released with the Witch Hunters codex. The Immolator sprue is pretty cool,but most of the rest are lacking in in the class the older models have.

I had to sand down the boobs on my new Canoness as they're disturbingly pointy for some reason. I won't say the SoB aren't fetish fuel, but the newer sculpts took it a bit too far.

My main problem with the girls is the bad miscasting that seems pretty common on the metals. About 50% are perfect, and the other half range from "sorta acceptable" to "ok.. this one has an eye patch".
I really think they would benefit from plastics, especially as all the other imperial armies can take them as allies. And it seems that no army fuels the obsessive conversions that the Inquisition does.

Cheese Elemental wrote:How about bald screaming Spase Marien (hurr) sergeants? We all hate them.

I <3 them more than a teen goth gurl loves that vampire from twilight.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

chromedog wrote:Vostroyans. Bring back the Valhallans, I don't like GC guard, but they at least looked better.

Another odd comment. Most of the people here seem to regard the Vostroyans as the most 40K-ish Guard models GW has ever made, as if someone actually took up the challenge of turning John Blanche's scribble art into an actual model. I think that's a good thing, and I don't see why Vostroyans and Valhallans can't co-exist.

BYE

I'm in complete agreement with HBMC. The Vostroyans look excellent, and fit a general loose "Russian Theme". I think that they'd look great as a veteran's squad for Vahallans.

I agree that some of those models need to be replaced like the old phoenix lords but the jungle fighters? At least they have a plastic box set.

I'd like to see ONE of the old tallarn, vallhallan, mordian iron guard model lines redone. They are only available in oop pewters and way to expensive.
Also agree on warp spiders.
Sister's of battle squads could be redone
And the Bretonnia line I mean they haven't had any love in years

chromedog wrote:I don't have a problem with the old hybrid SM heavy weapons guys. Pin them and they stay together.

Yeah, but they're a total PITA.

A mixed metal Dev needs:
- pin from backpack to torso
- pin from weapon to shoulder
- pin for steadying shoulder
- pin from backpack to weapon
That's a lot of pins to set, and far less convenient than working in plastic.

And the as-cast alignment isn't perfect, so there are gaps that are a PITA to close off.

It is cool that Devs can now be done in plastic, with no appreciable loss of detail, and virtually perfect fit. Unless you have all-mixed-metal 3E Devs like I do. In this case, you're kind of stuck with the metals for sake of matching.

Wehrkind wrote:My main problem with the girls is the bad miscasting that seems pretty common on the metals. About 50% are perfect, and the other half range from "sorta acceptable" to "ok.. this one has an eye patch".

N00b. If you bought in "back in the day", when the molds were still fresh and new, that wouldn't be a problem.

Actually, my big gripe is always needing to twist the legs so the feet sit flat.

@dumplingman:

The people's choice has been long-coat Guard for quite some time. If they're Krieg-like Gothic Trenchers with gasmask heads rather than WW2 Russians, GW will *easily* make bank on them.

*Easily*.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

chromedog wrote:I don't have a problem with the old hybrid SM heavy weapons guys. Pin them and they stay together.

Yeah, but they're a total PITA.

A mixed metal Dev needs:
- pin from backpack to torso
- pin from weapon to shoulder
- pin for steadying shoulder
- pin from backpack to weapon
That's a lot of pins to set, and far less convenient than working in plastic.

And the as-cast alignment isn't perfect, so there are gaps that are a PITA to close off.

It is cool that Devs can now be done in plastic, with no appreciable loss of detail, and virtually perfect fit. Unless you have all-mixed-metal 3E Devs like I do. In this case, you're kind of stuck with the metals for sake of matching.

You don't need to pin the old metals. I've had no problem with them breaking off, even if I drop them. Both plastic and metal are a PITA to put together, though.

Valhallan42nd wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

chromedog wrote:Vostroyans. Bring back the Valhallans, I don't like GC guard, but they at least looked better.

Another odd comment. Most of the people here seem to regard the Vostroyans as the most 40K-ish Guard models GW has ever made, as if someone actually took up the challenge of turning John Blanche's scribble art into an actual model. I think that's a good thing, and I don't see why Vostroyans and Valhallans can't co-exist.

BYE

I'm in complete agreement with HBMC. The Vostroyans look excellent, and fit a general loose "Russian Theme". I think that they'd look great as a veteran's squad for Vahallans.

Respectfully I'd have disagree. On an anecdotal basis the Vostroyans were not viewed as attractive minis and did not sell well, at least in these parts.

Valhallan42nd wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

chromedog wrote:I don't have a problem with the old hybrid SM heavy weapons guys. Pin them and they stay together.

Yeah, but they're a total PITA.

A mixed metal Dev needs:
- pin from backpack to torso
- pin from weapon to shoulder
- pin for steadying shoulder
- pin from backpack to weapon
That's a lot of pins to set, and far less convenient than working in plastic.

And the as-cast alignment isn't perfect, so there are gaps that are a PITA to close off.

It is cool that Devs can now be done in plastic, with no appreciable loss of detail, and virtually perfect fit. Unless you have all-mixed-metal 3E Devs like I do. In this case, you're kind of stuck with the metals for sake of matching.

You don't need to pin the old metals. I've had no problem with them breaking off, even if I drop them. Both plastic and metal are a PITA to put together, though.

I don't have any of the RT/2E all-metal Devs. I'm talking about the 3E mixed-metal metal-and-plastic hybrids. :(

Frazzled wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

chromedog wrote:Vostroyans. Bring back the Valhallans, I don't like GC guard, but they at least looked better.

Another odd comment. Most of the people here seem to regard the Vostroyans as the most 40K-ish Guard models GW has ever made, as if someone actually took up the challenge of turning John Blanche's scribble art into an actual model. I think that's a good thing, and I don't see why Vostroyans and Valhallans can't co-exist.

BYE

I'm in complete agreement with HBMC. The Vostroyans look excellent, and fit a general loose "Russian Theme". I think that they'd look great as a veteran's squad for Vahallans.

Respectfully I'd have disagree. On an anecdotal basis the Vostroyans were not viewed as attractive minis and did not sell well, at least in these parts.

They are somewhat of a Marmite (you either love it or hate it)

There are only two things putting me off them....1) I cannot afford an all metal Guard Army 2) I don't think my attention span would cover painting all the details, thus rendering the purchase of an all metal Guard army somewhat pointless, as I might as well 3colour and base Cadians!

JohnHwangDD wrote:
I don't have any of the RT/2E all-metal Devs. I'm talking about the 3E mixed-metal metal-and-plastic hybrids. :(

Those are the one's I'm taking about. Plastic bodies, metal weapons. None of mine are pinned. I jsut filed the contact areas so that there was more of a bonding surface and used glue sparingly. Like gluing together a CBT unseen Marauder, it was 2 minutes of holding still and prayer that you didn't have any glue on your finger tips.

Fantasy:
Skaven: for reasons mentioned above
New Empire Infantry: Lack of slippers, mangled faces, "detail" sculped on to the torso, horrible poses, oversized weapons, and worse of all no puffy sleaves. Really no good at all.
Bretonnian Men at Arms: Palvises larger than a door? Elbow arms? Shorter than every other infantry figure made? Horrible heads? No spears? Nope, no good at all.
Zombies: Too large, otherwise fine.
Plain gobblins: too large. Forest goblin head option would be nice too.

1. Cadians. Stunted 41st milennium NFL players? No thanks. I winced whenever they got something new. Make a plastic Krieg range instead and you'll see a lot of happy faces.
2. Wraithguard. Lovely models, three (?) poses. Lame! Make a ghost army feasible, and possible without robbing a bank.
3. Dark Eldar. Jabba's skiff party was great. A ten year wait isn't.
4. Plastic Horrors. Best looking daemons by far. S&M daemonettes and skinny Bloodletters don't appeal.
5. Broodlord. Why is this a metal kit? The Tyrant, Carnifex, gaunts and warriors look great. It would be piss easy to make a mean lynchpin for those 'stealer heavy lists.

And whilst I'm on the subject, only two feeder tendril heads per sprue? Lose.

The Twin Lightning Claw MkI/MkII veteran. I have yet to see that guy get even a halfway decent cast in anything but a White Dwarf magazine.

Wehrkind wrote:My main problem with the girls is the bad miscasting that seems pretty common on the metals. About 50% are perfect, and the other half range from "sorta acceptable" to "ok.. this one has an eye patch".

You're pretty lucky if you got some really awesome models with eyepatches.

@HBMC: Feel free to disagree with my nomination of Vostroyans. I think they're ugly and need replacing, even if only with valhallans (note: AND I DON'T EVEN LIKE GC GUARD!!!), even if you do think they're special. We're gonna have to disagree on this one. There is no common ground. You won't get me to change my mind as even if they are replaced, I wouldn't buy them anyway.

Very few of my minis 'REQUIRE' pinning as you put it. That I choose to do so is not a reflection on the models, but on the amount of punishement they WILL receive from me on the tabletop. I also use araldite to hold the bits in place on hybrids (it works much better than superglue for much longer).

H.B.M.C. wrote:I have no problem with pinning, I just don't think that any model should require it. if the hybrid Devs required it, then they were not good models.

I'd rather have a good-lookin' model that requires some pinning than a half-assed one that's easier to assemble. Not saying that the plastic devs are half-assed, but I think that there's nothing wrong with pinning every once in a while.

IMO:

1) Plastic High Elf Infantry (spears and bows).
Their flipper-hands and pageboy haircuts completely fail to evoke the lithe and elegant look of the art in the book.

2) Plastic Skaven Clanrats
They're supposed to be rat-men, not dog-men. Also, again with the flippers for hands.

3) 40k Ork Buggies
Everything else got an great re-do, why not these?

4) Lizardman Saurus Cavalry
The riders are fine. The revised Cold Ones are just hideous. And now that we can have Jes Goodwin's stunning new DE Cold One, the Lizzie version makes me sad.

5) Dragon Ogres
They've been around so long they no longer look like GW dragons or GW ogres. Please please please make them look like mini-Shaggoths (a lovely model, IMO).

I don't understand why everyone's so down on the Ork Buggy. I think it's cute! Sure, the driver doesn't look so hot, but he can be replaced easily enough.

not to burst your bubble, all eldar have dicks on their heads...

chromedog wrote:@HBMC: Feel free to disagree with my nomination of Vostroyans. I think they're ugly and need replacing, even if only with valhallans (note: AND I DON'T EVEN LIKE GC GUARD!!!), even if you do think they're special. We're gonna have to disagree on this one. There is no common ground. You won't get me to change my mind as even if they are replaced, I wouldn't buy them anyway.

Very few of my minis 'REQUIRE' pinning as you put it. That I choose to do so is not a reflection on the models, but on the amount of punishement they WILL receive from me on the tabletop. I also use araldite to hold the bits in place on hybrids (it works much better than superglue for much longer).

Agreed. Lose the heads and they have some real opportunities, but the are meh otherwise.

@washaway: If that's what a dick looks like to you, tell them they need to see a doctor.

Eldar are Coneheads. The eldar empire collapse due to an over-enthusiastic binge -

Consume mass quantities of beer - mbeep!

Pariah Press wrote:I'd rather have a good-lookin' model that requires some pinning than a half-assed one that's easier to assemble. Not saying that the plastic devs are half-assed, but I think that there's nothing wrong with pinning every once in a while.

Uhghh...

Do you not understand the words comin' outta my... keyboard...?

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with pinning. I'm saying that no model should require pinning. It has nothing to do with the looks of the model or any further straw-stuffed qualifications you want to attach to my original statement.

BYE

wash-away wrote:not to burst your bubble, all eldar have dicks on their heads...

That must explain why they're a dying race, imagine the problems reproducing.

Pariah Press wrote: I don't understand why everyone's so down on the Ork Buggy. I think it's cute! Sure, the driver doesn't look so hot, but he can be replaced easily enough.

The driver is too small, the weapons don't quite translate, and the gunner is too small. The vehicle itself is fine, but the rest could use some work.

If you think the buggy is fine, you don't play orks. It only has 1 of three possible weapon options (the big shoota). No rokkits, no kustom mega blasta.
The new trukk suffers from lack of rokkits too, and I assume the battlewagon will aswell. GW don't want us using rokkits on our vehicles.

Da Boss wrote:If you think the buggy is fine, you don't play orks. It only has 1 of three possible weapon options (the big shoota). No rokkits, no kustom mega blasta.
The new trukk suffers from lack of rokkits too, and I assume the battlewagon will aswell. GW don't want us using rokkits on our vehicles.

That's because we have BS2! They are doing us a favor

I liked the Vostroyans because they invoked that crazy Blanche feel. I didn't buy any because they were so much more expensive than the Cadians.

Seconded that Wraithguard need a re-do. They are far, far, far FAR too expensive right now for a model with what, 2 poses and an interchangable back vane? With the great new Eldar plastic kits, these guys are primed for a plastic box, ala the new Terminators.

Won't talk about Ork buggies, we know already.

Biovore. Please, the 3rd edition downs-syndrome version and the resculpted version from around the release of those awful metal possessed are both terrible.

Gargoyles. Fine models, but need to be in plastic. 32 gaunts( 16 gaunts and 16 Hormagaunts) cost what, $70 nowadays? 32 Gargoyles, a 12 point model compared to a ten and 6 point models, cost $192. Sans sales tax. For shame.

Otherwise, the Nid range is adequate to great.

New Eldar jetbikes please?

And finally, new broadsides. The hybrid version we have now is a goofy pita.

Dragon Ogres: Worst. Minis. EVER.

Minotaurs: I just hate the GW Minotaur. Look at Reaper and Confrontation. Those are minotaurs.

Two Piece Gaunt Heads: Seriously. I have glued so many faces to my fingers my fingerprint looks like a friggin' Implant Attack.

Dark Elf Hydra: How does that work, exactly? Again, see Reaper for how to make Hydras. Especially the newest one they put out.

Ripper Swarms: I think the Forgeworld versions should be the standard version.

I actually really dig the new hydra, yeah sure its got bigger gaps in it than Michael Strahan, Mike Tyson, and my two 5 month old kids combined, but whats a GW metal biggun without some green stuff.

I would agree that the old hydras were awful, but the new one are pretty sweet....

Ditto for their new beastmasters too

H.B.M.C. wrote:Uhghh...

Do you not understand the words comin' outta my... keyboard...?

Uhhh... evidently not.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with pinning. I'm saying that no model should require pinning.

Well, why not?

It has nothing to do with the looks of the model or any further straw-stuffed qualifications you want to attach to my original statement.

My point, which I evidently didn't communicate right (I think I made a logical leap and assumed that you all came along for the ride) is that some models looks great, right? But they are a bit, shall we say impractical, from an engineering standpoint. "Wow, those wings look cool!" Unfortunately, they're heavy, and they connect to a tiny little point on the model. Those suckers are probably gonna need to be pinned. Is this an inherent evil? Should the model be redesigned to have smaller, lighter wings that have a big attachment point, but look bad? Nope. Just pin 'em.

Valhallan42nd wrote:
I <3 them more than a teen goth gurl loves that vampire from twilight.

you are a funny man

It depends on how much work GW think the average buyer ought to have to do to make the models.

They clearly think the average buyer should not have to be able to do addition and subtraction to play the game.

Maybe pinning is considered to be outwith the typical user's meagre capacity.

Kilkrazy wrote:Maybe pinning is considered to be outwith the typical user's meagre capacity.

Those stoopid Chaos Fury wings suggest that GW doesn't think so.

Models I'd actually buy if they weren't so ass:

- New Bloodletters
- Abbadon the weee
- Donkeythirster

And the two main reasons I won't play Guard:

- Leman Russ and it's variants
- Chimera and it's variants

IMO, the new Bloodletters are fine models, as long as you don't consider them as "Bloodletters".

Also, the Chimera itself is fine. I don't understand why people are hating this model. It looks just like a 40k-universe IFV ought to. As pseudo-RL vehicles go, the Chimera is about the most believable thing GW makes..

If you trim the bottom, it reveals the wheels in a much more realistic manner and indeed looks like an IFV.

Kilkrazy wrote:It depends on how much work GW think the average buyer ought to have to do to make the models.

They clearly think the average buyer should not have to be able to do addition and subtraction to play the game.

Amen.
/mourns the loss of guess range weapons

As for models, I'll chime in even though they've probably all been mentioned:

1. Darn near the entire Dark Eldar range. Seems like nobody buys them, but that might be somewhat related to the craptacular models.
2. Ork Buggy. I still like the wartrakk, but it suffers from the same gorkamorka crew issue.
3. Chaos Dread. The kit on the shelf is chock full of both ugly AND useless.
4. Plastic catachans for all the previously mentioned reasons.
5. The new dark elf hydra, dear gawd just start over on that one please.

The whole Gorkamorka Warbuggy thing kind of reminds me of the DS9 episode Worf is asked to comment on the original Klingons...

"We do not discuss it with outsiders"

Pariah Press wrote:Those stoopid Chaos Fury wings suggest that GW doesn't think so.

Really? I've had 30 Furies for 3 years and not a single one has ever broken, and I didn't even need Green Stuff to get them together.

Having said that of course they will all break instantly the moment I next look at them...

BYE

all greater demons and zombies anyone???

So anyone care to wade through this thread and pick out the finalists? I'll throw out 5 more.









Greater Daemons - totally agree, though the plastic DP kit will take care of some of that. To tell the truth you could probably do a decent plastic Blood thirster, Lord of Change and Keeper of Secrets once it comes out. Just mix in pegasus wings and spawn bits as needed. Ole fatty you can't really do much with. Oh well.

Any metal flying model - just not practical to put on flying stands. A plastic feather wing and leather wing sprue would do a lot to help with this.


vs


Mr Stupid - The Nagash of our generation, combining silly rules with the WORST MODEL EVER. Why can't you be like your big brother?



Chaos Dread - meh. I mean sure I'd love a plastic kit for it, even a marine dread with a spike sprue but the old one (IMHO) is still better than the loyalists' angry washing machine.

The entire Lost and the Damned range - I mean people whine about the Dark Eldar but honestly ever L&D army I've seen looks like a lazy kitbash of Ork, Zombie and Catachan bitz.

JohnHwangDD wrote:The whole Gorkamorka Warbuggy thing kind of reminds me of the DS9 episode Worf is asked to comment on the original Klingons...

"We do not discuss it with outsiders"

DS9....Worf? im not a huge star trek fan... but i didnt think worf was on that show. enterprise deffinetly, but not DS9.
ANYWHORE i agree with abaddon, and i dont like the guy for more reasons then hes just tiny.(i used that mini long ago to make a BIG terminator lord..... now hes TINY!)

but also i think Thrakka needs a new build. sure orks got just about everything recently, but to me hes been the same mini for over a decade and thats to damn long

KingCracker wrote:

DS9....Worf? im not a huge star trek fan... but i didnt think worf was on that show. enterprise deffinetly, but not DS9.

he joined around season 3.

This had been my geekiness of the day.

JohnHwangDD wrote:IMO, the new Bloodletters are fine models, as long as you don't consider them as "Bloodletters".

This I do not grok. THe new bloodletters kick it oldschool right hard, and look great.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

This guy is bad, but not unsalvageably so. I bought one from a sale bin and actually sawed off his horns and then rebuilt his head with putty. That instantly took several degrees of stupid off him. The pose is pretty bad as well, so I tilted him on the base a bit, to give the impression of him floating menacingly forward instead of standing there scarecrow-like. All in all, it became a pretty nice mini, but alas, I lost mine.

So I built myself a new one out of plastic zombies.

Valhallan42nd wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:IMO, the new Bloodletters are fine models, as long as you don't consider them as "Bloodletters".

This I do not grok. THe new bloodletters kick it oldschool right hard, and look great.

I don't intend to field mine as Bloodletters - I like them as basis for some other conversion.

Oh jeebus! How did I forget these guys?



From out of the frozen north they came, from the artic wastes, a proud and hard nippled folk, the CHAOS MARAUDERS!

Guys, put on some shirts before you die of exposure!

Like the Catachans these are a potentially good idea ruined by too much Conan not enough real barbarian. If GW put them in ragged leathers and furs with bits of chainmail and such. Throw in some budding mutations as well. Instead we got...

Geeze.

Not even Conan, more like these guys

and also chaos furies

PLASTIC FURIES ARE NEEDED!

i would have loads if they did plastic ones...

yea the current ones are crap

hey, the marauders are just hot in the sunny south, so they took off their shirts... I think there are much worse models to be replaced before we worry about the topless chaos men.

1. Daemonettes: well they're supposed to be sexy aren't they, I'd like it if they went back to the 4th Edition Daemonettes.

2. All Slaanesh Daemons for that matter: I mean I know it's Chaos but could they make them just a little less ugly.

3. Catachans: for the same reasons.

4. Chaos Sorcerers: make them in plastic please.

5. Dark Eldar Wyches: I dunno, something about them just bothers me.

typhus wrote:and also chaos furies

The Chaos Fury models aren't bad, aside from their being metal (and therefore expensive) instead of plastic (and therefore priced like current Daemonettes / Bloodletters).

The Thousandth Son wrote:1. Daemonettes: well they're supposed to be sexy aren't they, I'd like it if they went back to the 4th Edition Daemonettes.

Um, I thought they did - aren't the plastics pretty much a return to the "classic" look?

1) Dwarf slayers. They're older then a lot of kids who play this game.
2) Chaos dread. Hasn't changed since 2nd ed.
3) Leman Russ et. al Time for the guard to get some new toys. They've been driving those Chimeras and Leman Russes for a LONG time.
4) Boar boyz.
5) Dark Eldar... I have my army....and I like it.. BUT... I dream of what new plastics would look like.

ill second that motion, those models do need to be replaced or updated

JohnHwangDD wrote:aren't the plastics pretty much a return to the "classic" look?

yeah, leave the chickenettes alone

seriously, i like the new daemonettes

JohnHwangDD wrote:

typhus wrote:and also chaos furies

The Thousandth Son wrote:1. Daemonettes: well they're supposed to be sexy aren't they, I'd like it if they went back to the 4th Edition Daemonettes.

Um, I thought they did - aren't the plastics pretty much a return to the "classic" look?

I dunno, I just don't like the new ones.

The new Daemonettes look okay, but they need some extra detail for painting. Other than some claws and torso "armor", they are awfully boring.

The Thousandth Son wrote:1. Daemonettes: well they're supposed to be sexy aren't they, I'd like it if they went back to the 4th Edition Daemonettes.

You know in movies, where the succubus/vampire is all sexy until they decide to eat your face? Then it's all fanged maw, black eyes, and claws. Yeah. They're just done disguising their true nature.

they need more boobs

Dark eldar everything (except drazhar).

Was reading through the DE codex redux today and would love to do an army of them again (last army sold off 2002) but the models are so bad its not worth it.

1) Plastic Cadians, i know i might be the only one here, but i hate the faces, they are so flat and very hard to paint up nice being as their entire face fills up the helmet its completely out of proportion

2) Plastic Ork Warboss, we have seen the ABOR one now give us a multi part one like Chaos and SM have!

3) High Elf Infantry + Silver Helms, lets face it only the metal models and the newer plastics like the Lord and Mage are the only nice

4) Plastic Ork Boyz, i'm sorry i much like the look they had in 2nd ed prehaps a hybrid so the look like the old ones but have more muscles, like the new plastic daemonettes even though i prefer last editions

5) Wood Elf treeman, that latest model looks about as good as my nan does in a bikini

I agree on plastic cadians, especially now that we have seen the Krieg.

Heck even the original metal Cadians were better than the current plastics.

But oh well.

It's got to be the Leman Russ tank for me. There are plenty of GW models I dislike, but this is the only one that single-handedly stopped me getting a whole army.

5th edition made me want to get back into 40k (after a 20 year absence... I dithered with Rogue Trader back in the day...). I wanted to do Guard. But, I wanted mech support, which realistically meant a LR. But I frackin' hate the model - particularly alongside the Marine tanks, which while not perfect at least look feasible. It is just all horribly wrong in its proportions - not least because the commander would get cut in two by the recoil of the main cannon.... <SNIP to remove prolonged and boring rantage>

So I could have proxied with one of the gazillion historical tank models out there, or kitbashed one into something GrimDark at least. But I'm too fething lazy. I really derive no fun from kitbashing I'm afraid.

So, no guard army for me.

Mind you that worked out in GW's favour as I would have been using Pig Iron troopers in the main, so they would have seen little of my money. Whereas, in the end I plumped for Spayz Mariens (HURR!) like every other punter with no imagination... so I'm pushing the odd few quid there way on that instead.

Valhallan42nd wrote:

The Thousandth Son wrote:1. Daemonettes: well they're supposed to be sexy aren't they, I'd like it if they went back to the 4th Edition Daemonettes.

You know in movies, where the succubus/vampire is all sexy until they decide to eat your face? Then it's all fanged maw, black eyes, and claws. Yeah. They're just done disguising their true nature.

Yeah I guess so. Also, vampires should never be sexy, it doesn't make any goddamn sense, they're supposed to be starved, predetorial walking abominations.

The Thousandth Son wrote:Also, vampires should never be sexy, it doesn't make any goddamn sense, they're supposed to be starved, predetorial walking abominations.

Like supermodels!

Pariah Press wrote:

The Thousandth Son wrote:Also, vampires should never be sexy, it doesn't make any goddamn sense, they're supposed to be starved, predetorial walking abominations.

Like supermodels!

rofl

Yeh i agree with catachans, leman russ, and those marauders (i never liked those when they came out though). Theyre al just too...cumbersome.

As for the Eldar Phoenix lords: they're absolutely beautiful models, don't try and say otherwise. All the eldar character models are, come to think of it.

I would like to see goblins in the style of the old, weedy metal ones from 3rd/4th edition. Brian Nelson does brutal orks, but the goblins shouldnt be brutal at all.

I just forgot a key one for me!

HORMAGAUNTS.

Seriously, can I get a model that I don't have to weigh down the base of a hundred of them, and secondly, when I get to CC, don't have to put them ass first so I can actully get in base to base with the enemy model?

We just dogpile our Hormies as best we can and go from there.

Tyranids: why the croupier's stick is a tabletop gaming accessory.

1. Abaddon. He's a dwarf at the moment, which is odd enough for a guy reputed to tower over Terminators outside of his armor.

2. Obliterators. The metal ones are obscenely heavy and hard to construct without gluing your fingers to the Oblit itself.

3. All the Dark Eldar need help. Badly. Dr. House couldn't cure their ails.

4. Imperial Guard Officers. Throw out the metals, throw in some plastic. The Colonel Klink clones are everywhere, and Creed looks like a wall with legs.

5. Eldar Fire Prism. It's like an Obliterator, only a tank.

Khestra the Unbeheld wrote:
2. Obliterators. The metal ones are obscenely heavy and hard to construct without gluing your fingers to the Oblit itself.

That's the warping power of Chaos. If you leave the model there long enough, it fuses with your skin. Didn't you know?

Just so I can contribute something useful to this thread:
New Tau Stealth Suits. Hate `em. The old ones were much better.

plastic meganobs with all the weapon options
plastic chaos dread with all the weapon options
plastic death core and all the extra stuff
plastic ven dread that isn't a walking wedding cake
plastic the rest of the deamons those horrors are nasty fiddely little arms grumbles at arms falling off