Sorry if this is already known, but i found it quite interesting. I copied and pasted it from Bell Of Lost Souls, and it was compiled by Bigred, i think...
Early word is that Necrons may be slated for the Q2-09 40k release slot. There is another codex scheduled ahead of them but there is conflicting data on what it is (currently bouncing around between IG, Space Wolves, Dark Eldar). The info reported so far is:
Removal of the C'tan from the Codex as fieldable units (they are still in the fluff).
The C'tan are to be moved over to Apocalypse where they will make an appearance as much more powerful single figures (possibly with attendant new oversized Forgeworld minis).
The big new HQ replacement for them will be entirely new tiered-level Necron Lords. Read the Apocalypse Necron background page for insight into what may be coming, but there is talk of Bronze, Silver, Gold, possibly even Platinum Lords.
Lords are said to have multiple special abilities and options, and certtain levels of Lords may re-arrange the Force Org chart for certain units, making different army builds possible. An example of an option was an advanced necrodermis, allowing the Lord to mimic his C,tan masters (and conveniently allow for the use of the existing C'Tan minis).
There will be Necron Lord named characters.
The rest of the army is described as getting a small number of new units, and having several existing units rearranged by Force Org category.
In general, the Necron army is desribed as being somewhat "buffed".
H.B.M.C. wrote:About the 3rd or 4th time this has been posted. Sorry!
never the less, I wish to comment, i sincerely hope 'crons get a different troops option as well as scarabs and warriors, I dont play them, but it would be nice to have some thing tokill, and then kill again a bit later
It'd be nice to see the Neccies get a bit more choice. They kind of do suffer on that front, even if the choices they do have are pretty damned powerful.
I know my housemate who plays 'em does find the small selection of units somewhat of a downer about them, although I think they do get some of the best wargear in the game.
I think Flayed Ones will either get Rending and stay as an Elite slot, or they'll remain just as they are now, but become the second Troop choice.
Pariahs will become "Necrons" and become the pick of the litter HtH choice.
Tomb Spyders will become a big Dreadnought/Carnifex type option.
Wraiths will get Rending at the minimum, but more likely Power Weapons.
We'll Be Back is almost 100% assured to get changed into Feel No Pain. No, this does NOT make them Nurgle wanabes, they had WBB well before FNP even existed. The two rules do mostly the same thing, but WBB does it in an unnecessarily far more convoluted manner.
Gauss won't change, but they'll get other new anti-tank options, or maybe just beef up the guns on Heavy Destroyers to Rail Gun levels of uberness.
Tomb Spyders will become a big Dreadnought/Carnifex type option.
quote]
Good. Tomb Spyders are a bit "flat" at the moment. I envisage some huge monstrosity, floating more or less upright (a bit like they do in Dawn of War when they attack) with a multitude of nasty looking arms/legs.
Well, I will say one good thing for so few options. It's made it much easier to max out the force org with all the available options. No wargear to speak of makes it real easy, no magnets required.
I'd love to see a plastic Necron Lord kit with various wargear so you could easily pimp him out if wanted to.
I'd love to see new Pariah models which look a bit more like those from the artwork, some of those pics had this weird Species/Giger (yes, I know he designed the creature from Species) vibe to it.
And FW making C'tan would be amazing! I'd hope GW will make more xenos stuff soon because I've kind of had it with the endless Land Raider variants and Death Korps of Krieg stuff we've been seeing for the last couple of years!
i would love to see a bad ass spider model, the one they have now is attrocious. Something like the big therion model in AT/43, that thing looks immpresive.
i think us necron players need to be treated fairly. for about a decade we have suffered with a tiny army list, no strength 10 weapons, high point cost and disappearing.
Reecius wrote:i would love to see a bad ass spider model, the one they have now is attrocious.
What about the big LOTR spider? You don't like that?
Think he's talking the Tomb Spider model, which as I also noted is a bit emotionally flat. I want to see it rearing up (not unlike the Shelob model), with its legs ready to disembowel some Space Marines
ALIi B wrote:i think us necron players need to be treated fairly. for about a decade we have suffered with a tiny army list, no strength 10 weapons, high point cost and disappearing.
i just hope they keep c'tan's
Nightbringer is Strength 10...
but it sounds like the C'Tan are moving into Apocalypse :S Maybe they'll upgrade Monolith's Particle Whip to S10.
I rather like the tomb spider. From an artistic perspective it's quite good looking, and has a very solid and alien feel too it. I would warn against going to fluid and organic in the feel of the necrons, you would risk making them look generic in doing so.
Hell, of all the models in the range I would say that the tomb spider is the most necron for me. The rest are just badly designed generi-bots with stupid green tubes on their generi-guns. The tomb spider actually looks like it belongs with all the symbology and architecture used in the fluff.
Lol, we're not suggesting an organic spider like Shelob, just a similar pose. They can more or less keep the same look (apart from the flappy legs, they have to go!), just make it look less static.
I've said my peace on Necrons many times. I think the path forward is reasonably clear, but we all know GW has a way of surprising us.
Current rumors say that the type of Lord you select will influence the FOC. Presumably a Destroyer Lord would allow Destroyers as Troops, etc. It's also hinted at in the new rulebook where it says that there are different levels of Lords with different functions.
I really wouldn't expect to see much in the way of new units. If the existing units would just work properly, there'd be plenty of variety IMO.
Okay, so I will rehash this item -- the current Tomb Spyder is an *awful* model. Give it the Carnifex treatment in terms of plastic set and game options, and you'd have something there.
I'd definitely like to see something done with the Pariahs. Their abilities are great, the background is good, the models are okay, but I just don't want to play them because they seem to be ill-suited for CC, which is what they're supposed to be there for. Not being Necrons is bad, but A1 really sucks. Especially since we have no way to up that...no extra weapons, nothing. I'd love to see them get another attack with that warscythe. Getting changed to Necron would be great, but getting one more attack would be better.
The Tomb Spyder model...it does inspire a lot of "meh". It would be cool to see something that looked like a Necronified spider. Or, we could change the name to the Tomb Coconut Crab and leave it as is. (Seriously, have you seen those things? They're like the size of a small car.)
I don't know about new units, but I'd like to see a shuffling of what we have. Moving Scarabs and Flayed Ones to the troops section would be a good start.
Rending for Flayed Ones, power weapons for Wraiths. That fits the fluff; big-ass claws get Rending, phasing claws can pass through armor and then attack the flesh. Sorta like the Vision.
And I'm sick of WBB vs FNP! Yes, essentially they're the same thing, they just go off at different times, but I like the mechanics of WBB. It's always been part of the Necron, since the mini-dex in WD #whatever, and it would be a shame to see it go because players argue about it so much. It ain't that hard to understand; what we have is some players trying to exploit it and some players just being obtuse. Keep WBB!
Phase Out on the other hand...it would be nice if they took it on a unit by unit basis, rather than the army as a whole. When a unit drops to 25%, it disppears. Maybe have a rule that allows the Monolith to being them back and attach them to a unit within 6" or something. I don't know...
Tomb Spyders will become a big Dreadnought/Carnifex type option.
New sculpt in plastic would be nice. On second thought the whole cron line should be in plastic. I have seen regular warriors converted to look like immortals and they are nicer than the metal sculps and a quarter of the cost.
Phase Out - Necrons test for Morale as usual with all of the standard modifiers, but automatically remove one model from the unit for each point they fail the Ld test by. Then, they count as passing the test.
So programmed robot men will be super flexible and able to swap out FO choices, regimented SMs are all about variety and infiltration and CSMs have 1 list you will ever see.
Anyhow, hopefully pariahs and flayed ones will become unsuck.
I completely agree that the tomb spyder needs a new model. I like that the body style matches the destroyer's, providing consistency of theme, but the legs and arms are so static and lack character.
The artwork for them in the codex shows them to have slimmer and longer legs and claws, with a greater range of motion...
I agree with Shuma for the most part, actually. Tomb Spyders ought be static-looking floaters IMO, but the current model and its paddle-legs are a bit silly... Action poses would be like the 'dance party' Spirit Host bases. Gawd I hate those. Change everything past the head, but please no action pose. Leave that up to the rampant imagination of the hobbyist/DOW designer. The only reason it's impractical now is because the legs look silly no matter what you do with them. The clawed spindly legs from the Codex, as Gavin suggests, seem more appropriate.
captain.gordino wrote:I can't take this!!! I'm turning on The H.B.M.C. signal!!!
*HBMC pulls up in the Whinemobile*
Someone called?
Yes, discount everything DD just said... or has ever said. He boggles the mind sometimes.
Anyway, Tomb Spyders. I just finished painting 8 of the damned things, so I don't want them to change. I think they look great, like a Scarab mixed with a sentinel from The Matrix. And I liked the way they moved in Dawn of War. They could do a resculpt with it in different positions, or a plastic kit to make it more 'dynamic', but the basic look of them shouldn't change.
This is how tomb spiders move. They are not static, and no they shouldn't look like "necronofied spiders". They have a very monolithic and alien look to them. GW could give them a bit more range of motion with a plastic kit, but a total redesign would just serve to take away a great signature model.
grizgrin wrote:Great Scott! Necrons appear unbeatable in DOW. How the hell do you take them down? Those shots make them appear bulletproof.
Actually the tomb spider is easily one of the weakest dreadnaut type troops in the game. It just took so long because they sent nothing but ork boyz with sluggas at it which couldn't penetrate its armor. An Ork Dread would have made quick work out of the spider. They serve as more of a utility unit in the necron force of DoW.
ShumaGorath wrote:This is how tomb spiders move. They are not static, and no they shouldn't look like "necronofied spiders". They have a very monolithic and alien look to them. GW could give them a bit more range of motion with a plastic kit, but a total redesign would just serve to take away a great signature model.
That doesn't matter. They're as boring and un-dynamic models as one could imagine. Horrible, horrible models.
That's like saying a tank is boring and undynamic becasue it doesn't fly around or bite people. They're only as boring as your imagination - or your basing ability.
jmurph wrote:So programmed robot men will be super flexible and able to swap out FO choices, regimented SMs are all about variety and infiltration and CSMs have 1 list you will ever see.
Anyhow, hopefully pariahs and flayed ones will become unsuck.
Well, who's to say you'll want to field any of the new options?
Alessio tried to make Codex: CSM flexible too, and look what happened. Like I said, I think the path is clear in that most players agree on the areas that need buffing, etc. even if they don't agree 100% on the execution. But GW seems to intentionally do the opposite of what we want/expect, so I worry that it'll be a tweak along the lines of Tau Empire and we'll still be stuck with the Warrior-Immortal-Destroyer-Monolith paradigm above all else.
But I believe Brimstone hinted that Flayed Ones will be pretty good and that Pariahs will work quite differently. I've been on a one-man crusade to have Pariahs reimagined as psychological weapons that can be dispersed around the army. Maybe it has a chance of happening, we'll see.
this is what i meant for a tomb spider, this model is sweet.
And I agree with muh of what has been said. Crons are a very cool concept army and they do have a lot to choose from, its just that a lot of what they have is not worhth taking.
flayed ones to troops and give them something to make them different, like tough 5 or even rending. at toughness 5 and a scoring unit they become great for sitting on objectives. With rending and coming out of a lith they make exclelltn assault troops.
Different types of lords would be cool and being able to switch around the FOC always helps a ton with adding variety.
also, fix up the units like pariahs and wraiths which are awesome in concept, not so awesome in playability.
I think Necrons woul dbe an easy codex to update. most everything is there, just tweak the rules, make plastic immortals and and add a new unit or two. Really they would not require much work to update as i see it.
That model is cool but its closer to eldar design concepts, the necrons are gaunt, angular, and inorganic (or at least they are supposed to be). Thats far too bulky and busy to fit at all within the model line.
That doesn't matter. They're as boring and un-dynamic models as one could imagine. Horrible, horrible models
No they are just true to concept. Sorry undead robots don't feel the need to dance for you. The entire concept of the necrons is their still, slow, and silent advance. They shouldn't be dynamic, they should be solid, monolithic, and implacable. Which in the current model line only the tomb spider and monolith really appear to be. The warriors have silly fatlegs and skulls for heads, the pariahs are basically power ranger putties with staves, and everything else is just a silly fathead warrior body with someone attached to it (a bike, someones skin, a really long spine etc).
Arctik_Firangi wrote:That's like saying a tank is boring and undynamic becasue it doesn't fly around or bite people.
A tank can at least have an interestingly-shaped hull / turret with lots of intersting little sensor / port / hatch details. The Spyder has none of that.
____
ShumaGorath wrote:the necrons are gaunt, angular, and inorganic (or at least they are supposed to be). Thats far too bulky and busy to fit at all within the model line.
They shouldn't be dynamic, they should be solid, monolithic, and implacable. Which in the current model line only the tomb spider and monolith really appear to be.
The Necron Warrior and Destroyer set the basic visual tone for the army. In that regard, the Spyder is nothing but a failure.
The Necron Warrior and Destroyer set the basic visual tone for the army.
In much the same way that the Dark Eldar warrior and Wych set the basic visual tone for that army. Just because something is prevalent in a line doesn't make it good.
IMO, the Tomb Spyder looks like a GW sculpt from a generation ago -- and not a Jes classic. It's an underdesigned, blocky, clumsy sculpt with positively cartoonish claws. It'd probably fit right in next to the original Ork dreadnought or a bunch of RTB01 beakies.
Yes, it needs to fit into the Necron range. That doesn't mean it has to look exactly like *that*. There's plenty you can do with it and keep it within the general Necron look.
If the body were more like the Destroyer, and it had several long spindly arms (powered with glowy bitz) replacing the bitty claws, then the whole thing would work much better.
Wait, are you really suggesting that the basic necron warrior should be majorly redone? Like that is going o happen, even the Dark eldar warriors (and other models) get a redesign, but not a complete overhaul.
And I like the warriors personally, nothing too "dynamic" please, I know how that can turn out...
@Schepp? You talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? I don't see anyone else here, so you must be talkin' to me.
Anyhow, I was proposing a change to the Tomb Spyder, based on the existing (and good) Necron Warrior and Destroyer models, kind of describing a converion starting with the Destroyer platform/body and working upward.
I like the warrior model, although I think it would be cool if the legs were separate and could be glued on in a less splayed sort of position so that they didn't have to look like they had 500 pound weights on their back.
As it stands they're a little too bent over, and their stance is a little too wide. That 5th edition illustration of a warrior is cool.
i say we need plastic! us necron players are sick of all the good models being in bloody metal. pariahs need attack bonuses badly and necron (cc specialists? at least they got gauss blasters), i hate being ridiculed for dissapearing and some kind of second troop choice like sm with pistol and bolter. and something thats strength 10 and usable.
another thing i hate about necron is how flimsy they are, with the standard ork boy you can sit on it and he is fine, with a necron they snap at the feet (ie the feet are still attached to the base)
How about a Tomb Spyder compromise: we keep the current models, but they come with a sound chip that plays jaunty dance music while they float around the battlefield.
Has there been any speculation on the new units that we may receive? Beyond the previously mentioned Lords, I mean. Any new infantry?
Maybe look at the new vignette of the necron warrior in the 5th ed. rulebook for an idea of where they're going. Looks like they're going to lose the axe-head bayonet and stand taller. (Ever cut a warrior at the hips, knees and ankles so you can glue him to stand upright? They're head and shoulders taller than space marines!)
I wish they'd come up with a different leadership structure than the tiered lord thing. I imagined more different lords based on specialized task not on as much on hierarchy. In the very least I wish they'd have come up with a different choice of names for the tiers. *shrug*
Necron definitely need a transport tank and a gun tank to make them more of an army, but they need to be done in distinctive ways, like linking all the transports so necrons can move between tanks. The other thing they need is jump infantry, dreadnought sized would be cool.
ShumaGorath wrote:They have a transport tank. It's huge and impossible to kill and is basically a giant plastic box.
Impossible to kill..not so much. last game I played, second turn, lascannon shot..."6" for penetration, "6" for result. Monolith go boom...
But I do agree that we do not need another vehicle. I like the idea of the 'lith being it for the Necron. The idea of a mass of them, all silent and identical, slowly gliding across the battlefield is great.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Mmm... anecdotal evidence. Tasty, but not filling at all.
BYE
One time I shot at a monolith but when I was measuring for distance I broke the arm off of the model firing. True story. Monoliths will break the models of whatever fires at them.
I'm not getting all this "Necrons need more tanks!" nonsense. What that sounds like to me is: "Necrons are too Necrony, and not enough like Imperial Guard!!!" Cry me a river.
The monolith is the perfect vehicle. It's a high capacity transport. It has maximum armor all around. It can deepstrike. It has anti-infantry and anti-vehicle weapons. It's a teleport beacon. It uses the ordnance template. Frankly it needs a nerf as of 5th ed. vehicle rules. They should get rid of it's Living Metal ability so Eldar and DE Lance weapons can do more than just glance it.
With an emphasis shifted toward troops movement, it seems to me that Necron have a significant disadvantage. I think a transport would go towards helping with that; a tranport I'd imagine just to be linking monoliths or another non-weaponed vehicle such that Necrons can march through from one cehicle to another, something that deepstrikes would be neat. I don't think anyone wants to see Necron become IG, I wouldn't wish that on any army. Saying they should have a "tank" really means like a smaller, kinder, gentler Monolith... ie an Obelisk. The Obelisk is something they're suppose to have, its not coming out of no where, thats their shooty "tank".
The answer to that is simple, just give monoliths the ability to deep strike or perform teleport moves. Like they do in dawn of war. A points increase would be good too, its a giant monolithic tower of godlike advanced supertech. It should cost more than a land raider.
Apologies. Reading over my last post, I sounded more belligerent than I really was.
But I do prize the very different way all the armies function. I tend to roll my eyes when people want something in an army, just because another army has it. Start that game and all the armies become the same. It looks like GW is finally making the effort to give every army (not just SMs anymore) a wealth of options while maintaining uniqueness.
I don't think the dreaded Necron jumping dreadnought is quite the direction they're gonna go...
I think one thing Necrons need is the USR stubborn. Then just make them initiative 1. This would help them in close combat without giving them an advantage. Soulless robots afraid because they lost 4 guys? Doesn't make much since to me
Perhaps give the monolith a skyleap like ability where it sacrifices its movement and shooting that turn for the ability to leave the table then deep strike in the following turn following normal rules. This would give them the ability to traverse the board and take objectives, but without the addition of an additional vehicle suddenly "appearing" in their fluff.
The monolith is the lynchpin of both the necron background and army, It would be nice to see it be a little bit more expansive in what its capable of doing (as it, is saving necron squads and particle whipping is a bit underwhelming considering the sheer size an supposed power of the vehicle).
Necrons are a little rigged in my opinion the resurrection orb is totally gay. the monilith is by far the best tank in the game.
so they need to be nerfed
Well, as I have said before, Necrons might not have transports, but they are still one of the most mobile armies in the game as it stands now. I am not saying they shouldn't have transports, just that they don't need transports.
HQ:
Destroyer Lord uses Jet Bike rules
Lord has wargear that can teleport himself and any unit attached per turn
Deciever can rearrange your deployment
Elites:
Can't Flayed Ones infiltrate? (not sure on this)
Heavy:
Heavy Destroyers use Jet Bike rules
Monolith can DS and teleport 1 unit per turn
Fast:
Wraiths use Jet Bike rules
Scarab Swarms use Jet Bike rules
Destroyers use Jet Bike rules
Couple that with running and your basic necron army is by no means lacking for speed.
necrons are better than other armies. BUT they are very limited in what they can field and what can be done with them and disappear. a lot. some units move fast but the bulk moves incredibly slowly.
Ozymandias wrote:Yes let's nerf the homosexual Necrons. I'm tired of seeing them at the top tables of all the tournaments!
Oh wait...
Ozymandias, King of Kings
His oppinion may be tainted by Necron's 4rth edition reign of terror where every gun could auto smack a landraider, leadership ten meant that they were hard as nails to break, a tank that effectively ignored everyones elses special anti-tank rules, and one piece of wargear that nulified necrons supposed weakness. Necrons needed some powering down from 4rth edition IMO...just not the hosing they got in 5th largely due to CC modifiers to leadership.
ALIi B wrote:necrons are better than other armies. BUT they are very limited in what they can field and what can be done with them and disappear. a lot. some units move fast but the bulk moves incredibly slowly.
flayed ones can infiltrate and deep strike.
If you discounted teleporting and deepstriking, I would agree with you. But if you add these abilities into the mix then most units deployed by a necron player will be able to redeploy quite quickly. I would agree that necrons are limmited in thier options.
Archonate wrote:The monolith is the perfect vehicle. ... They should get rid of it's Living Metal ability so Eldar and DE Lance weapons can do more than just glance it.
And Necron jumping dreadnoughts?... What?!
Actually, Living Metal should simply be:
- all hits count as Glancing
Necrons need a fighty Dreadnought type model, and Jump Packs get it where it needs to be. Fills 2 of the big holes in the Necron line with a single model.
Or Living metal could be the same as the Venerable rule for SM Dreads. Glancing only would be pretty broken on an AV14 vehicle. Hopefully they will change the way the weapons work so that it is actually possible to get a Weapons destroyed result on the damage table.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Actually, Living Metal should simply be:
- all hits count as Glancing
An indestructible tank that has S10 ordnance... Fantastic idea.
Necrons need a fighty Dreadnought type model, and Jump Packs get it where it needs to be. Fills 2 of the big holes in the Necron line with a single model.
The Tomb Spyder is the Necrons' "fighty dreadnought type model" and IMO all it needs are more dramatic poses for the model.
I disagree with the entire notion that necrons would be bouncing around the battlefield like a bunch of retards. It's not their M.O. They phase. They teleport. They will themselves elsewhere. Jump Packs for Necrons?? Really?! The most technologically sophisticated army in the game hasn't discovered a better way to get around???
Archonate wrote:The slow but inevitable advance is a Necron signature. IMO they should stay that way.
They have plenty of jetbike type units anyway to compensate for the infantry's lack of mobility.
Couldn't agree with you more. With the Monolith, various DS-ing units and the Veil of Darkness (which I'm amazed more folks don't complain about) we can get around the table fairly well. Add 4 (5 if you count Destroyer Lords) units that can move as jetbikes and we seem very mobile indeed.
Now, if they'd move some of those jet bikin' units to the Troops section we'd all be happy.
Keep wraiths at their current size, maybe up to five in a unit, give them an extra wound, and upgrade to warscythes.
Make Flayed ones troops, give them power-weapons.
Make pariahs into the dreadnought type model (I'm willing to go ahead and purchase those again.)
Throw in a new vehicle, Obelisk works fine. Let it come in squads, and/or combine firepower much like the Eldar Fire Prism.
Give Necrons FNP for the individual, but then let them keep WBB in a different form. When the squad is removed, give them the option to come out of one of the Monoliths on the table. (On a 4+ the necrons that were phased out are repaired and returned to battle, or replaced by a waiting squad, reentering through a monolith on the table.)
Give them all stubborn, and relentless USRs.
Leave Gauss as is, with the exception of being AP1 vs vehicles only.
Disruption Field - Let it do same as gauss weaponry, though I wouldn't object to it being a 'rending' upgrade so that the army has some CC ability, and disruption field becomes usefull.
Make the Immortals weaponry AP3, since every army seems to have some.
Give heavy destroyers the option of a S10, AP1 single shot, or a S5, AP2 Heavy 3 (perhaps with an upgrade.) Same number of models in the unit.
Scarabs are fine, really the only additions I'd like to see (outside of the disruption field boost), is someway to move through terrain with more safety, or eternal warrior.
Wow that would make them damned near unstoppable. Some of the things sure but if all were used it would be a small army indeed as it would cost a ton of points per model. Just saying...
Keep wraiths at their current size, maybe up to five in a unit, give them an extra wound, and upgrade to warscythes.
Make Flayed ones troops, give them power-weapons.
Make pariahs into the dreadnought type model (I'm willing to go ahead and purchase those again.)
Throw in a new vehicle, Obelisk works fine. Let it come in squads, and/or combine firepower much like the Eldar Fire Prism.
Give Necrons FNP for the individual, but then let them keep WBB in a different form. When the squad is removed, give them the option to come out of one of the Monoliths on the table. (On a 4+ the necrons that were phased out are repaired and returned to battle, or replaced by a waiting squad, reentering through a monolith on the table.)
Give them all stubborn, and relentless USRs.
Leave Gauss as is, with the exception of being AP1 vs vehicles only.
Disruption Field - Let it do same as gauss weaponry, though I wouldn't object to it being a 'rending' upgrade so that the army has some CC ability, and disruption field becomes usefull.
Make the Immortals weaponry AP3, since every army seems to have some.
Give heavy destroyers the option of a S10, AP1 single shot, or a S5, AP2 Heavy 3 (perhaps with an upgrade.) Same number of models in the unit.
Scarabs are fine, really the only additions I'd like to see (outside of the disruption field boost), is someway to move through terrain with more safety, or eternal warrior.
Point by point:
1) Wraiths: Yes to the unit size increase, but no to the warscythes. I still say give 'em power weapons, representing their claws phasing through armor. While the warscythes would be a big boost in power, they don't seem to fit in with the concept of the Wraith, ie, immaterial killer. How would the weapon phase with them?
2)FO's: Yes to making them troops, no to power weapons. Rending please; once again, it seems to suit the model and the background better, IMHO.
3)Pariahs: Hmmm...I'd really like to avoid any of our stuff being turned into the "Necron version of X". Instead make the Pariahs work as they are now. Maybe +1A and +1I?
4)New vehicles: See earlier in this thread. 5)FNP vs WBB: I've weighed in on this before and I still say keep WBB, just make the rules a little clearer for those who seem to have difficulty understanding them.
6)Subborn and Relentless: I don't know about Stubborn, but Relentless would be cool. The only thing it would really do is allow Warriors to shoot 24" whether they move or not. That seems to fit with the slowly advancing tide of metal terrors thing.
7)Gauss: No problems with the AP1 thing.
8)Disruption Fields: I never use 'em, but if these kind of changed were made I might start. Adding Rending would require a boost in points, though.
9)Gauss Blaster's AP3: Yes, Lord, please! I'd be willing to pay a few more points if I knew that I could take down MEQ with a little more regularity.
10)Heavy Destroyers: No problem with that suggestion. Makes them even more of a threat to enemy tanks, but would it also render the Destroyer obsolete?
11)Scarabs: I don't think they need any tinkering. Keeping them as is would be fine with me.
talthar wrote:9)Gauss Blaster's AP3: Yes, Lord, please! I'd be willing to pay a few more points if I knew that I could take down MEQ with a little more regularity.
That might fit fluff, but we all know it would annihilate game balance. No standard issue rifle should ever be better than AP5.
talthar wrote:1) Wraiths: Yes to the unit size increase, but no to the warscythes. I still say give 'em power weapons, representing their claws phasing through armor. While the warscythes would be a big boost in power, they don't seem to fit in with the concept of the Wraith, ie, immaterial killer. How would the weapon phase with them?
Warscythes ARE phase blades. It's probably the fluffiest weapon they could possibly have.
Why is the solution for any bad melee-unit giving it rending and call it a day. The Flayed ones seem perfect for a simple upping of the attacks, maybe A3 or A4. Do you really think they can carve up a battle tank with those claws?
Gauss Blasters AP3? No thanks, would make them too expensive pointswise. They are fine at the moment.
Heavy destroyers would better work with S10 Ap1 H1 or S5 AP2 H2, otherwise they interfere with destroyers as talthar said.
Greets
Schepp himself
P.S. Oh, and the jump infantry dreadnought idea is stupid.
Well, depending on your army, the Monolith can be the bane of your very existance. Ever tried fighting a game where the enemy has a 'lith and you're an all-CC Tyranid army? I didn't think so. Any army with a lascannon is spoiled in this regaurd. You really don't know how good you have it.
The monolith needs some kind of Nerfing. Sure, it would be nice to have all of those options, but as it stands now, a 'lith is waaay too inexpensive for how effective it is. Maybe have an option to tag on all of those extra goodies for a few more points each, and that way, you can have the 'lith with all of the things you're used to, it'll just cost more. And you can have a cheaper one if you so desire, as a basic beacon, or heavy fire support, or what have you.
I'd say it would be too bad if they took away the C'Tan as a 40k option. Hell, I'd like to see even more C'Tan, like the Outsider, brought into the fold.
Anyway, Necrons were never meant to have a good CC option, as I see it. Perhaps make Pariahs better (And I'd say as they are, I'd take flayed ones out of the game completely. They just don't seem to suit the army at all, to me), give the 'crons some sort of grenade-ish option, and that's about all you need. Necron strategy has never ever been reliant on CC, and I'd like it to stay that way (And hey, if you run into CC fielding a Necron army, at least they're not exactly ill-suited to it. Just very slow).
I love how every one with a brain agrees that Necrons need a boost to be even close to competitive, but people still cry because there ONE good thing gives them a challenge.
But, I think things like Living Metal and We'll Be Back (WBB) need to be greatly simplified. Both rules have one or more paragraphs describing the rule, plus FAQ clairifications, and people still get confused.
Certain units need to be tweeked (flayed ones, Wraiths, etc.). But the only two units I want to see major changes to are the Pariahs and the C'Tan. The Pariahs need to be Necrons (WBB/FnP, teleport options, etc.) otherwise they don't snyc with the force and Immortals are a better alternative for the Elite choice. C'Tan should be removed from the codex and put into Apoc. They are living gods! They are supposed to be extremely powerful masters of real space that have no equal in the material realm. No more "my uB3r sW0rd of DetH juzt 'instant killed' yEr g0d!!!"
I say leave the wraith attack type as is, with the following change....any unsaved wound causes Instant Death (provided you are not immune to it normally of course).
Perhaps my line of think is a bit off, but I can't help imagining that having a metal hand suddenly appear in your chest would be inherently fatal?
Any unsaved wound causes D3 extra wounds might be better maybe, instant death is so final and grand. Though they would make nasty character and elite killers.
Anyone having trouble with the Monolith should just ignore it and focus on phase out. Also, for 235 points, it had better be pretty indestructible.
And, GW, can it please deep strike like a drop pod. I'm tired of one corner being on impassable terrain and exploding.
Also, it would be cool if Wraiths had a wargear option that let them take power weapons. Like +10 points for power weapons, +25 for warscythes.
I had no idea the Spyder was such a hotly contested creature. Sure he's ugly, but it's what's on the inside that counts; and the inside is full of nurturing maternal instincts and scarabs.
talthar wrote:1) Wraiths: Yes to the unit size increase, but no to the warscythes. I still say give 'em power weapons, representing their claws phasing through armor. While the warscythes would be a big boost in power, they don't seem to fit in with the concept of the Wraith, ie, immaterial killer. How would the weapon phase with them?
Warscythes ARE phase blades. It's probably the fluffiest weapon they could possibly have.
Yes, the scythe portion is a phase blade, but what about the long stick to which it's attached? I can see the Wraiths phasing through some woods, and there is a loud clatter when the poles hit the ground...
One good aspect of them carrying warscthyes would be to give them a Grim Reaper look, perhaps reflections of the Nightbringer. But I still like power weapon claws.
I think instead of WBB, they should allow other Necrons to repair dead ones, and Scarabs (and/or Spyders) within 6" gives you a +1 bonus. Like with Techmarines, see?
talthar wrote:One good aspect of them carrying warscthyes would be to give them a Grim Reaper look, perhaps reflections of the Nightbringer. But I still like power weapon claws.
If I ever play Necrons, I'm totally gonna convert my wraiths to have a scythe arm...
I think the big mistake they made with the Necrons was
to make metal units.Building a Necron army is an horrific
cost.What they should have done was release all units
in plastic.Immortals etc are just too expensive to build
up in reasonable unit sizes.
Slipstream wrote:I think the big mistake they made with the (40k) was
to make metal units. Building a (40k) army is an horrific
cost. What they should have done was release all units
in plastic. (Models) are just too expensive to build
up in reasonable unit sizes.
Slipstream wrote:I think the big mistake they made with the Necrons was to make metal units.
Building a Necron army is an horrific cost.
What they should have done was release all units in plastic.
Immortals etc are just too expensive to build
up in reasonable unit sizes.
Huh? If Necrons were plastic-only, they'd be Warriors, Destroyers, Scarabs, and Monoliths. Hardly a diverse range of models for an army.
Compared to what? Sisters of Battle which is nearly all-metal, but without the benefit of plastic Troops, and requiring more models overall? Imperial Guard using the old metal figures or FWDKoK? Necrons are supposed to be Warrior-heavy, and plastic Necrons give a good value in points per dollar.
It is only recently that GW has had the ability to produce an all-plastic line of models, and that is only reserved for their largest-selling line - Space Marines.
Immortals have never been cheap. But then, perhaps you don't recall the 2E Necrons which were all metal.
This is all a long way off, as it has been confirmed the next three 40k releases are codex/supplement/codex. With sources on warseer saying imperial guard/planetfall (can't remember name) / space wolves. So the necrons are a while out still, so anything about the rules should be subject to change, although anything about models will be more accurate, as the development of plastic kits takes a long time.
talthar wrote:
Point by point:
1) Wraiths: Yes to the unit size increase, but no to the warscythes. I still say give 'em power weapons, representing their claws phasing through armor. While the warscythes would be a big boost in power, they don't seem to fit in with the concept of the Wraith, ie, immaterial killer. How would the weapon phase with them?
2)FO's: Yes to making them troops, no to power weapons. Rending please; once again, it seems to suit the model and the background better, IMHO.
3)Pariahs: Hmmm...I'd really like to avoid any of our stuff being turned into the "Necron version of X". Instead make the Pariahs work as they are now. Maybe +1A and +1I?
4)New vehicles: See earlier in this thread. 5)FNP vs WBB: I've weighed in on this before and I still say keep WBB, just make the rules a little clearer for those who seem to have difficulty understanding them.
6)Subborn and Relentless: I don't know about Stubborn, but Relentless would be cool. The only thing it would really do is allow Warriors to shoot 24" whether they move or not. That seems to fit with the slowly advancing tide of metal terrors thing.
7)Gauss: No problems with the AP1 thing.
8)Disruption Fields: I never use 'em, but if these kind of changed were made I might start. Adding Rending would require a boost in points, though.
9)Gauss Blaster's AP3: Yes, Lord, please! I'd be willing to pay a few more points if I knew that I could take down MEQ with a little more regularity.
10)Heavy Destroyers: No problem with that suggestion. Makes them even more of a threat to enemy tanks, but would it also render the Destroyer obsolete?
11)Scarabs: I don't think they need any tinkering. Keeping them as is would be fine with me.
Did I miss anything?
Thanks for the excellant thoughts.
1) Yeah, I'd say warscythes still. Not necessarily on long sticks, but with their claws having the same effect. They are phasing in and out all by themselves, and it seems to fit more. Ignoring invulnerable saves is nice, but not so overwhelming unless your fighting daemons. The 2d6 armor pen just means that you don't have to rely on disruption fields, and makes sense, since they can go out of phase, stick their hands into the engine, fuel, reactor, or ammo bins, and do mean things...
2) I'm ok with rending, so long as the rule about needing to role morale to assault/hit them on other than 6's changes to roll leadership instead, so all the fearless units out there don't ignore the one thing you have thats supposed to make you dangerous in CC. If rending were still all that, people wouldn't be talking about genestealers being nerfed, and my 60 daemonette army would have been much more viable.
3) Pariahs, I say a dreadnought type body. Partly to give the necrons another vehicle. Partly because it makes a bit more sense. The necrons really want to promote the psychic null ability of the necrons, and if you're keeping it as where they don't get the Necron ability, then putting them in something that's large, and heavily armored (and maybe enchances their psychic null ability), while keeping the biological parts that you need alive and supported, makes a lot of sense.
4) Which new vehicles are you looking at? I'm looking for something that adds a bit more offensive capability.
5) I like WBB myself, but it leaves a bunch of vulnerabilities. FNP and a 'orb' nearby that allows you to take it no matter what, gives you a much better chance when that bloodletter, spacewolf, or banshee squad, all bristling with higher init and powerweapons than you have, run into your line. A WBB ability on top of it, some way to have a chance to replace the squad, would really increase the survivability of the army, and help justify their cost.
6) Stubborn - well fearless makes sense, but so does stubborn. After several millenia, and with the ability to be repaired, I doubt that they're overly worried about being shot, stabbed, slammed, run over, or blown up. Relentless is a definite. But then, I figure Tau Firewarriors should get relentless as well, just so they can try to keep their distance while actually using their range.
7) Gauss - glad you like it.
8) Yeah, I never use them either. Between VoD and the monolith, on the rare occasion that I did get in CC with a dread (and I survive/don't get swept away), then I just take my WBB, Teleport out of CC, and rapid fire the dread to death.
9) AP3 is showing up in several places, seemed like something to set the Immortals apart.
10) Don't think it would render the Destroyer obsolete. Your still not looking at very many of them, they cost more, have a lower S on the weapon in multifire mode, if the Gauss suggestion I made is taken as well you're still getting more shots off and a decent chance of taking out tanks with a regular destroyer, and you're not taking a monolith with all the utility it has, or a tomb spyder with the utility we hope for. And if you make the multishot a upgrade, it'll cost even more.
11) Scarabs - I think they need something. Maybe just clarification so that they can get their movement into/through terrain. Nothing as bad as powerweapons, we'll leave that to nurglings in an epedimius list. But there needs to be a little something, because I don't see them used too often. If you have the points for a few swarms, you definitely have the points for another warrior or two, which increases your phase out number, has ranged weaponry, WBB, gauss, and isn't vulnerable to blasts. Right now most people that use them at all, use them as speedbumps, provided they survive long enough to get to whatever you want to slow down. With a low toughness, and being vulnerable to blasts, swarms, in my experience, well, drop like flies (couldn't resist.) Eternal warrior would make it so they really bog things down, high str wouldn't automatically kill a base. A S6 small blast covering 3 swarm bases would kill 2 bases, not 6. And it would have a downside, since the swarm can't be teleported away from the CC, if it's a stalemate, you need to wade in to clear out the foe, which might be important if you need to claim that objective, or wipe them out in order to get a clear victory in a KP mission.
I agree about the tomb spider, when i got one i ended up breaking its legs by accident trying to make it look cooler... However if you go on forge world there this new necron model there ive forgotten wat its called but its looks awesome i think it will be the new tomb spider ITS STRONGER TOO
(Seriously, have you seen those things? They're like the size of a small car.)
Start that game and all the armies become the same. It looks like 