Well, on account of having more than a single passably cool character, Marvel clearly wins outright.
DC has Batman. And thats. About. It. The rest are all lame. Simple as. Superman is invincible, ergo he just gets out of *any* situation that way. Why bother reading?
Marvel win, mainly because they can always go and get the Marvel Zombies (who ate Galactus and are now Zombies with the Power Cosmic) to go and eat the DC Universe. Easy!
*Please note, although not a man of Religion, the above asterix has been put in so I can explain that the comment was for comic effect, rather than knocking anyone elses religion.
Definetly Marvel. Altough they suck a lot these days (Brand New Day) they still have the better roster. I'm not even complaining about the JLA, but DC just doesn't have any memorable villians outside of Gotham City.
Evil Eli wrote:
But if judging by a Power Level then DC.
Marvel has the Sentry I believe. Of course there are like 7 guys in the marvel universe that have used that name. I think his real name is Robert Reynolds. He is on par, if not surpassing, the power of Superman. His hand is permanently stayed though due to psychological damage. He thinks he killed his wife or something to that effect I believe.
I read a lot of image. But if I had to choose between DC and Marvel. I'd go with Marvel.
Evil Eli wrote:If you are judging on a coolness factor then Marvel.
But if judging by a Power Level then DC.
Superboy Prime, Black Adam, and Darkseid could take on 90% of the marvel heroes & Villians and wipe them out.
This is the correct answer. The power scales are so wildly different that it isn't even funny. Of course they all have plot armor, so in the end any of them could really win.
I wonder if the Pheonix could destroy Superman....I mean, he is made out of matter and all, and it's not like he can regenerate.... At least she'd be able to keep him from doing anything. And what about The Hulk? That would be a fight to see.
Anyway, I think that Marvel would definetly win, hands down. Even though most Marvel superheroes and villains have more weaknesses than DC's (Which makes them better characters anyway), there's still far more at Marvel's disposal. Far more. And some of them are just as powerful as anything DC can throw at them.
I'm getting the impression that people on the board are far more familiar with Marvel then they are DC, which colors the opinion. For example Galactus keeps coming up in Marvels defense, but DC has it's own cosmic and inter-stellar entities as well.
I don't care. If Warren Ellis writes marvel then I read Marvel. If Garth Ennis
writes a DC book, I'll read a DC book.
I won't follow a character just for the sake of the character unless it has
a really good storyline behind it (you know, one that doesn't really require
retcons and continuity into infinity)
Well I like both universes but DC kills them because of the anti monitor he will just look at them and kill them in one fell swoop If the zombies try biting they will get a face full of anti matter
I don't think it's that people here are more familiar with DC it's just that we gave up on DC when we turned 13. I've been reading comics on and off for a long time and all the DC gods just aren't entertaining to read as you go through the ages.
I like how marvel weaves real world events into their comics too. Marvel doesn't have a super hero who can just instantly stop 9/11, so they had a 9/11 issue and it was paved with tragedy and it was very good. DC has no excuse to let it happen. Superman can blink of an eye fly over there and catch planes then throw them into outer space. DC just isn't entertaining when super heroes have the ability to rip dimensions apart. And Earth 2 through 53 are all dumb. What do you do when your heroes are two strong? Pull in 52 Dimensions of other heroes for possible villains.
I'm not crazy about either one anymore, but I lean toward DC.
DC, Has lots of actual heroes. But if your favorite is a 2nd tier character it could be a decade between appearances, unless they want to kill him for no reason.
Marvel only had two actual Superheroes and they shot one. Plus their writers have the amazing ability to make all of them extremely unlikable. That and Marvel seems to only have one storyline they keep recycling.
I go by writer, not brand, because honestly just because your hero is X doesn't mean he'll have a great story in each issue. Like Kevin Smith's incarnation of Onomotopeia, potential for a cool villian, but he just sucked ass.
Neil Gaiman, Garth Ennis, Alan Moore. there's a couple more
but on topic, DC, superman totally would own everyone because he can see the ladies nekkid!
VermGho5t wrote:I go by writer, not brand, because honestly just because your hero is X doesn't mean he'll have a great story in each issue. Like Kevin Smith's incarnation of Onomotopeia, potential for a cool villian, but he just sucked ass.
Neil Gaiman, Garth Ennis, Alan Moore. there's a couple more
but on topic, DC, superman totally would own everyone because he can see the ladies nekkid!
Yup. My list also includes Joss Whedon, Stracynzski, Warren Ellis, Azzarello, Willingham (Fables),
Grant Morrison (crazy bugger that he is), Mark Millar (sometimes), Carey.
I recently started reading Batman, which is quite entertaining actually. Me and my brother needed a replacement for Spider-Man comics which got complety ed up by Quesada. DAMN YOU QUESADA AND YOUR HATE FOR CONTUNITY!!!
On a more serious note, I do prefer Marvel, had a strong affinity with Uncanny X-men for a long time (about 250- 365 ish) and the various other X-comics, big fan of the Avengers, Hulk and a few others.
Sadly due to various factors haven't picked up a comic in a few years so I'm relying on movies and cartoons to keep me entertained on the superhero front. Of which my current faves are Iron man film, Fanatastic Four (movies and cartoon) and the Hulk film.
I like Batman though, and Justice League to a lesser extent but I've not read a comic of either, just going from on the movies and cartoons.
Evil Eli wrote:
But if judging by a Power Level then DC.
Marvel has the Sentry I believe. Of course there are like 7 guys in the marvel universe that have used that name. I think his real name is Robert Reynolds. He is on par, if not surpassing, the power of Superman. His hand is permanently stayed though due to psychological damage. He thinks he killed his wife or something to that effect I believe.
I read a lot of image. But if I had to choose between DC and Marvel. I'd go with Marvel.
Ditto, after all, how do you defeat a man with the power of a million exploding suns? (Whatever that means) Plus, Marvel has Spider-man and that's just a guaranteed win. Anyone else reading Spider-man? It's been awesome lately. The only titles of DC's I read are the Green Lantern books. Great stuff.
The last not-ultimate Spider-man I read was the first "brand new day" story. It's horrible. I know retconning is a common thing in comics, espcially in Spider-Man (Venon and Aunt May being the most obvious examples) but the "new status quo" is imo an outrage and a slap in the face of every reader. Why even bother with great writers like JMS when you're going to up the last 5 years of their work anyway.
Typeline wrote:
I like how marvel weaves real world events into their comics too. Marvel doesn't have a super hero who can just instantly stop 9/11, so they had a 9/11 issue and it was paved with tragedy and it was very good. .
That's not the one where Dr. Doom, was crying at Ground zero was it ? If so it was god awful.
Much prefer the DC stuff myself. The setting just makes more "sense" ( in as mucg as any superhero story can be said to amke sense)with regards to repercussions and I find the characters more archetypal. Morrisons stuff especially just drips with class, and I think thge mroe experimental stuff they release-- The Filth, The Invisibles, Sandman and Fables is amazingly good.
Marvel. Cosmic entities aside, there's also knowing that Marvel has pretty muc copied (ie ripped off) both the JLA and the Legion of SUper Heroes and made them Marvel supergroups. So Marvel would have the Marvel characters plus copies of most major DC characters.
Hyperion=Superman
Power Princess=Wonder Woman
And so on.
And then the Shi'ar Imperial Guard (forget the correct name, but the ones the X-men have fought on an occasion or two) are the Legion. IIRC Centurion=Superboy
Course, I haven't bought many comic for the last ten years so I could be using old info...................
And muchas Watchmen etc is hyped, I've yet to read anything better than Moore's run on Swamp Thing. Morrison's Doom Patrol perhaps cam close but, the way Moore folded so much stuff together is amazing.
Marvel. Cosmic entities aside, there's also knowing that Marvel has pretty muc copied (ie ripped off) both the JLA and the Legion of SUper Heroes and made them Marvel supergroups. So Marvel would have the Marvel characters plus copies of most major DC characters.
Hyperion=Superman
Power Princess=Wonder Woman
And so on.
And then the Shi'ar Imperial Guard (forget the correct name, but the ones the X-men have fought on an occasion or two) are the Legion. IIRC Centurion=Superboy
Spectre is mainstream-- plays a big role in every "Crisis on/in/whatever".
Guardians were dead.. this is comics mate, they and the whole corp are back. There are now in fact several coloured corps, related to the emotional spectrum. Or something. Quick google round for "Sinestro corp wars" and " The blackest night" should sort you out. Or you'll weep, whatever.
The Endless/Sandman most certainly are part of the DC universe, integrally tied in many ways.... I just think they don't play with the guys and gals in tights much. Possible exception of Desire there but thi sis a PG 13 forum right ...?
Sandman was supposed to be tied to DC comics mainstream more tightly than it ends
up being. Gaiman and Vertigo realized they had something different and moved away
from seeing what superheroes dream about.
And muchas Watchmen etc is hyped, I've yet to read anything better than Moore's run on Swamp Thing. Morrison's Doom Patrol perhaps cam close but, the way Moore folded so much stuff together is amazing.
They also have the antimonitor, monitors, monarch, superman prime, krona- he kickedmarvel during the JLA/Avengers, oans the survivors and splinter sects ie zamorans and controllers, shadow demons, lobo, The captain atom brigade, antim matter universe, 51 universes and hypertime to smash up marvel
Oh please, stop with comparing power levels, there's no ing end to something like that.
Yes I know that Superman is strong, ergo there have to be a lot of other strong characters in one of the 51 DC universes, I get it, but this can go on and on. I could talk about all those powerfull super Marvel characters, like the Silver Surfer, Thanos, the Red Skull since he absorbed the cosmic cube, Doc Strange and stuff like that. The thing is, characters like those are ridicolous in both, Marvel and DC comics. Superheroes/villians who can alter reality are boring in 95% of all cases, and in the other 5% their used for stupid retconning, like Heroes Reborn or Brand ing Day.
I've been reading a bunch of both DC and Marvel borrowed from the library lately (they tend to have much more DC than Marvel) and its mostly been Batman, or the team-up stories like JLA: Obsidian Age or Marvel's Annihilation arc. They're fun if nothing else.
While Batman is definitely my favorite, from what I've seen, Green Lantern, Plastic Man, and a handful of ex-Heralds of Galactus would be the ones left standing when the dust settles. Though there will always be those omnipotent beings that both tend to not join directly in battle and who seem to be invincible, like Death.
I was a fan of Spawn back in the early days as well. Though I stopped reading 'em around 50 or so. Apparently Armageddon actually occurs starting somewhere around 150. I saw a compilation at B&N yesterday and I might just pick it up after solstice.
Anung Un Rama wrote:Oh please, stop with comparing power levels, there's no ing end to something like that.
Yes I know that Superman is strong, ergo there have to be a lot of other strong characters in one of the 51 DC universes, I get it, but this can go on and on. I could talk about all those powerfull super Marvel characters, like the Silver Surfer, Thanos, the Red Skull since he absorbed the cosmic cube, Doc Strange and stuff like that. The thing is, characters like those are ridicolous in both, Marvel and DC comics. Superheroes/villians who can alter reality are boring in 95% of all cases, and in the other 5% their used for stupid retconning, like Heroes Reborn or Brand ing Day.
I'm not talking about power levels... Batman's just awesome.
How many DC villains can you remember outside Gotham City? And how many do you remember from JUST the silver-age Amazing Spider-Man?
Dude. The Marvel Multiverse has just so many superheroes, that they would smash DC to death. The Sentry (R.Reynolds, the one from New Avengers vol.2), Sub-Mariner (DC has a clone of him called Aquaman or something), Silver Surfer, Hulk, Dr Strange... the list goes on. And that's only what was on the top of my mind.
Plus, just as Typeline said, no Marvel character can stop 9/11, while Superman just plays "catch" with aircraft as if it were paperballs.
How many DC villains can you remember outside Gotham City? And how many do you remember from JUST the silver-age Amazing Spider-Man?
Dude. The Marvel Multiverse has just so many superheroes, that they would smash DC to death. The Sentry (R.Reynolds, the one from New Avengers vol.2), Sub-Mariner (DC has a clone of him called Aquaman or something), Silver Surfer, Hulk, Dr Strange... the list goes on. And that's only what was on the top of my mind.
Plus, just as Typeline said, no Marvel character can stop 9/11, while Superman just plays "catch" with aircraft as if it were paperballs.
Loads. And, like most silver age villains, most of spider mans enemies are pretty lame.
The Silver Surfer couldn't stop 9/11 ? Really ?
Leaving aside the distastefulness of using this as some sort of benchmark for fictional universes anyway ( ...)
There's quite a few Marvel heroes that could have at least altered the events of that day.
Look at the attached. Mr. Fantastic builds self regenerating buildings. That fix themselves just like that.
Overall with regards to individual power levels DC has a lot more super supe strong characters than Marvel does. Hell almost the entire city of Kandor is flying around the planet Earth at the moment.
Loads. And, like most silver age villains, most of spider mans enemies are pretty lame.
The Silver Surfer couldn't stop 9/11 ? Really ?
Leaving aside the distastefulness of using this as some sort of benchmark for fictional universes anyway ( ...)
There's quite a few Marvel heroes that could have at least altered the events of that day.
Look at the attached. Mr. Fantastic builds self regenerating buildings. That fix themselves just like that.
Overall with regards to individual power levels DC has a lot more super supe strong characters than Marvel does. Hell almost the entire city of Kandor is flying around the planet Earth at the moment.
Yes, a lot of them were very lame, but they are memorable. just like that I can recall Venom, Carnage, Doc Ock, Lizard, Morlun, Rhino, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Vulture, Electro, Shocker...
Well, for one he wasn't there. Secondly... how long did the event of 9/11 last? The heroes and villains were all busy fighting themselves, to actually stop and try to protect humanity from their ACTUAL enemies... aren't most villains just enemies of the superheroes?
Maybe it was distasteful, but 9/11 in ASM did made my eyes a little watery when I read it 5 years after the event.
Ummm. Did Mr Fantastic develop those building before or after 9/11?
Yes, DC has a lot of supe strong characters. Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern etc. but apart from the main characters, DC has little to offer. Plastic Man? Don't even try it...
Though DC has one thing that makes me have respect for it - Batman. The entire coolness of comic books is Batman. Nothing beats Batman.
Chrysaor686 wrote:And what about The Hulk? That would be a fight to see.
It wasn't. They fought for all of a page before Supes started talking and calmed him down.
warpcrafter wrote:They only seem tough because they've never messed with Spawn!
Batman did. He dug a batarang halfway through Spawn's face.
Typeline wrote: I like how marvel weaves real world events into their comics too. Marvel doesn't have a super hero who can just instantly stop 9/11, so they had a 9/11 issue and it was paved with tragedy and it was very good. .
DC does, too. Every book had issues about 9/11.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Aren't the Guardians of Oa dead? Weren't they killed by Hal Jordan? Wimps.
Also, I don't think that Dream / Death are part of the normal DC universe...
Guardians are back, Ganthet recreated the rest.
Also, Sandman(whether Morpheus or Daniel Hall) is "normal" DCU(all books published by a company owned by DC are). He(Daniel, not Morpheus) both aided the Justice League in defeating Starro and claimed the souls of his parents(including Hector "Dr. Fate" Hall) as they were dying in 2006.
As for memorable non-Bats villains? Deathstroke, Lex, Bizarro, Darkseid, Parallax, Eclipso, Vandal Savage, Brother Blood, Monsieur Mallah and the Brain, Sinestro...
Also, DC writes much better storylines because they hire better writers. Identity Crisis, Killing Joke, Red Son, Dark Knight Returns, For Tommorrow, Arkham Asylum, and Kingdom Come vs Conquest(and post-Conquest), maybe Demon in a Bottle and Earth X. I went back and re-read my copies of the "big" Marvel stories(Maximum Carnage, Infinity Wars, etc.) and realized most of them are extremely cheesy and horrendous. The writing was terrible. The best thing Marvel produces storyline wise is the stuff for Conquest/post-Conquest, and mostly cause it's good writers working on a Space Opera(same reason I'm becoming more and more a Green Lantern Corps fan, especially with Sinestro Wars/Corps Wars/Darkest Night) with almost no super heroes(I love Rocket Racoon). As a kid, I loved Marvel(even/especially Maximum Clonage, big Scarlet Spider fan), but as I grew up and matured, DC kept reading better and better, especially the parts when no one's fighting, where as Marvel stayed about the same level(IMO). Marvel puts on decent fight scenes and that's about it.
Marvel had Dazzler, yech. DC had Amethyst, Double yech.
I guess I'm just to old becuase I remember the beyonder in Marvel and your not gonna out power him.
Also marvel has the Gods. You can't out power that either. DC showed the multiverse. Marvel showed all of creation and then what existed outside of it.
Edge in power scale goes to Marvel
Funny, I just realized that while everyone thinks Captain America is Marvels version of Superman, he's not. Supermans closet corralary is The mighty Thor.
Both Uberman, both blue w/red cape, both with mild mannered secret identities(Thors was a little edgier), Both Heros died, Both have had there storyline end at least once, both had multiple versions of themselves,hhhhmmmmThors weakness is kryptonite!!!! But because it doesn't exist in Marvel reality He has fewer weaknesses. Edge to Thor and thus by proxy to Marvel.
focusedfire wrote: I guess I'm just to old becuase I remember the beyonder in Marvel and your not gonna out power him.
Beyonder's dead.
focusedfire wrote:Also marvel has the Gods. You can't out power that either. DC showed the multiverse. Marvel showed all of creation and then what existed outside of it.
DC has the New Gods and the Olympians, Shazam is a god, and DC has the Big G. The Multiverse IS all of creation for DC.
focusedfire wrote:Funny, I just realized that while everyone thinks Captain America is Marvels version of Superman, he's not. Supermans closet corralary is The mighty Thor.
No, Marvel's version of Supes is Sentry. Even has the same costume, the only thing missing is anything that isn't flying, invulnerability, and superstrength. Also, Supes has Krypto, so he automatically wins(yes, I DO love characters everyone else hates).
I think both companies produce some good stuff and some bad stuff. At the turn of the century DC were doing better when Chuck Dixon was writing the bat books. Before that they had the comedy gold of JLI. Nowadays I think Marvel are doing much better, or they were until One More Day. I can't stand what Grant Morrison has done to the DCU, it makes me sick. His batman is attrocious. ASBAR is completely horrible. The only decent book DC are currently putting out is Green Lantern Corps, but as soon as they realise it's popular they'll ruin it. The big problem with both companies isn't the writers, who cross pollinate between them (Straczynski is doing DC now whereas Jeff Jones is doing Marvel, and Dixon did a great run on Spiderman a few years ago) but the terrible, terrible editors.
2000AD is a very refreshing comic world for people used to superhero comics. If you can track down some of the better stories it's worth giving a go- just be ready for the "cliffhanger every six pages" writing style that comes from the different format.
Well, just finished ploughing my way through the four volumes of Age of Apocalypse.
Little confusing here and there, but a masterpiece to my mind. Nice to see the bad guys being good guys if things had gone differently, and vice versa. Neatly illustrates that good and bad are largely matters of perspective...
Platuan4th wrote: As for memorable non-Bats villains? Deathstroke, Lex, Bizarro, Darkseid, Parallax, Eclipso, Vandal Savage, Brother Blood, Monsieur Mallah and the Brain, Sinestro...
Also, DC writes much better storylines because they hire better writers. Identity Crisis, Killing Joke, Red Son, Dark Knight Returns, For Tommorrow, Arkham Asylum, and Kingdom Come vs Conquest(and post-Conquest), maybe Demon in a Bottle and Earth X. I went back and re-read my copies of the "big" Marvel stories(Maximum Carnage, Infinity Wars, etc.) and realized most of them are extremely cheesy and horrendous. The writing was terrible. The best thing Marvel produces storyline wise is the stuff for Conquest/post-Conquest, and mostly cause it's good writers working on a Space Opera(same reason I'm becoming more and more a Green Lantern Corps fan, especially with Sinestro Wars/Corps Wars/Darkest Night) with almost no super heroes(I love Rocket Racoon). As a kid, I loved Marvel(even/especially Maximum Clonage, big Scarlet Spider fan), but as I grew up and matured, DC kept reading better and better, especially the parts when no one's fighting, where as Marvel stayed about the same level(IMO). Marvel puts on decent fight scenes and that's about it.
Okay, I can agree with Lex, Deathstroke, Darkside and maybe Bizzaro, but the rest? I don't know most of them, but I fail to see how a evil yellow lantern can be an interesting villian.
I haven't read that many interesting DC stories which are not some sort of Elseworld story. Dark Knight retunrs was brilliant, but it's not canon, is it?
Marvel has some pretty good stories from time to time. The entire Spider-Man run from Strazynski was really great imho. Until it was RUINED by ing Quesada and Brand New Day.
Anung Un Rama wrote:I don't know most of them, but I fail to see how a evil yellow lantern can be an interesting villian.
If you don't know how someone who can manipulate the greatest Lantern ever into dismantling the Corps, killing fellow lanterns and the Guardians, and freeing and becoming the living embodiment of fear(the very opposite of the Corps) interesting, I can't help you. He even literally rips the living embodiment of Willpower out of Kyle Rayner(wuss) after single handedly enslaving the Qwardians and forcing them to make rings to form the Sinestro corps.
He even literally rips the living embodiment of Willpower out of Kyle Rayner(wuss) after single handedly enslaving the Qwardians and forcing them to make rings to form the Sinestro corps.
That explains why I haven't heard anything from Rayner in years
From what I know about JLA, I always thought it was very interesting that Lex Luthor, brilliant, but still only human, somehow managed to be on top of the DC villian pile. Which doesn't seem so easy considering how many overpowered Aliens and Gods usually ran amok in this universe.
DC has the New Gods and the Olympians, Shazam is a god, and DC has the Big G. The Multiverse IS all of creation for DC.
No, Marvel's version of Supes is Sentry. Even has the same costume, the only thing missing is anything that isn't flying, invulnerability, and superstrength. Also, Supes has Krypto, so he automatically wins(yes, I DO love characters everyone else hates).
Beyonder chose to die, in a J.C. like sacrifice.
Marvel also has the big G and it also has Jr. played by Peter Parker/Spidey.(Who in Stan Lee's life named Peter and initialed P.P. was such a savior that he makes them into his christ figures. Because Hero's Peter Petrelli=Peter Parker Story arc wise)
I disagree, Sentry may have had some of the look but he wasn't a lead character. Story and Power wise Thor is a closer match. Thor had the Warriors Three, Nordic Three Musketeers. There was also Fenris and he beats a campy ol' mutt any day.
Marvel wins alone on the Tribute to the Literary Great Alexander Dumas.
But then They actually killed him off, No whusing out and bringing him back. Marvel killed off a lead character and left them dead. Both companies have killed off characters and brought them back or had some one else assume the mantle and name. Marvel killed off Thor and left the name dead.
As for Spawn, two words Ghost Rider. Marvel did it first.
focusedfire wrote:Marvel also has the big G and it also has Jr. played by Peter Parker/Spidey.(Who in Stan Lee's life named Peter and initialed P.P. was such a savior that he makes them into his christ figures. Because Hero's Peter Petrelli=Peter Parker Story arc wise)
JC showed up to aide Spidey after Aunt May was shot, so Spidey=/=Jr.
focusedfire wrote:
As for Spawn, two words Ghost Rider. Marvel did it first.
True, and as much as I like ghost rider (sans Nicholas Cage) McFarlane did it better. He also did spidey better I have to say that I enjoy the core characters of Marvel more than DC. I think that especially considering the recent Messiah Complex, Civil War, and the new X-force book, marvel is doing a better job with story and writing. But I like the fringe characters on the DC side alot better, Simon Dark for instance. It seems like DC keeps alot of the generic writing, and "cheese" for it's major players, and Marvel does the same for it's fringe chars.
I know it's not specifically under discussion, but since I got into comics because of Image it's only fair to make note of them. Rob Leifield is a toolbox. Image keeps to schedules like Oprah keeps to diets. Spawn hit menopause a few years ago, but the new art and direction of the book is astonishing. If you haven't read Spawn for awhile I highly recommend it, you will be surprised. I am a firm believer that Spawn can kick any other hero's ass, DC or Marvel.
He did actually succeed in the Emperor Doom graphic novel.
In one of those twists so beloved by writers he pretty much gave up ruling the world as he found it incredibly tedious dealing with border disputes and tractor quotas.
Personally I find the Marvel characters much duller and pedestrian, mainly as they refuse to ever let them change or evolve. Never really read Spider man comics regularly but thought it was cool they way he grew up, got married etc etc. And now.... wow! Way to annoy people.
Did have a soft spot for Darkhawk, the original New Warriors and dug some of the early issues of the MOrbius series back in the midnight sons era. I just prefer my heroes to be/act a bit more iconically and I find DC does that better.
Marvels was wicked, but I thought Kingdom Come was much better.
Perhaps neither as good as Moore's Twilight might have been but there you go.
Civil War is an excellent example of why Marvel trumps DC. Take Captain America...he shows a side of him akin to a petulant child, and split the heroes more or less down the middle. Why? He refused to be registered. Possibly (arguably?) inspired by The Incredibles, a Superhero Registrar is developed, with the Heroes being held responsible for their actions (namely when some NooBs bite off more than they can chew and end up nuking a small town...).
Not such a bad thing, but old Cap' goes off on one!
I don't really rate the Civil War storyline that much at all, mainly as it required too many characters to act in a manner they shouldn't or wouldn't do.
Plus I felt given the immense destruction that has happened in the (Marvel) world before-- Genosha anyone ?-- it struck me as a bit odd or frankly BS that this would be the straw that broke the camels back. And I'd point out DC did has done similar stories-- Legends etc-- years ( perhaps even decades) back And you know in about 5 months the whole thing will be forgotten anyway.
Except Cap getting shot and replaced-- that is cool and was well done, not least his successor is a logical chocie with a cool story going with it.
I will say-- awful Quesada calls aside here and there-- Marvel's editorial team and steering is a lot better than DC's at the moment, I wonder what the hell Dido is doing at times with his...... err.... shall we say "lax" approach to continuity and general interlinking of events. Final Crisis is awesome stuff, typical Morrison really with more ideas and concepts in a single issue than most other writers use in a year.
ah but Vertigo is a spin off of DC like tangent comics and milestone comics which was then absorbed into DC itself. DC also created Vertigo as a means of more adult oriented stories not suitable for young people. Vertigo made spin offs of the losers a DC WW2 group, the original sandman wesly dodds, weird war tales and many other DC titles and characters
Civil war was alright I guess but it is just a means of marvel to kill off unecessary characters and to kill main characters to add to dramatic effect like Mday, secret Invasion, the twelve(I am a big fan of this though) etc
Secret Invasion was a mean of marvel to add in old characters that everyone forgot by saying the real ones were in skrull space OMG
While I've read comics I've never had a particular loyalty to one label. I liked the character or the story, not the owner of the label.
For a while there, though (going back 10-15 years), the label I liked, though (in terms of comics/characters or stories) was Dark Horse. I thought that all of the lycra clad pretty boys could go blow. Then they got popular and started making movies and I stopped reading comics about the same time.
Other than that, my mail comic character loyalties were 2000AD ones.
Darkhrose are now doing collected volumes of their movie tie-in lines, like Alien, Predator, AvP, Terminator, Star Wars, Angel, Buffy, Indiana Jones...
Slowly getting the Predator, Terminator, Alien and cross over ones!
No more so than the Ultimates or Maxx line surely ?
Isn't Maxx set in the 616 Marvel Universe, but the titles don't interact with any "mainstream" Marvel titles?
The Ultimate Universe is a money spiner, pure and simple. There was only one good thing to com out of that and it was the Ultimates, then Jeph Loe got a hold of them, which is a shame because I really liked his work with Tim Sale on the Long Halloween, Daredevil: Yellow, Spider Man: Blue etc.
Maxx isn't completly set in 616, because in the new Squadron Supreme books, Superheroes were a new thing.
imo, the ultimate universe isn't that bad. Ultimate Spidey is fun to read and Ultimates was pretty cool for some time. UXM was okay too, as far as I read it.
Never read that much of the Ultimate stuff myself, but have heard bad things about it of late. mainly on the excellant Rokk's comic book revolution-- recommended.
I'd point out-- as others have-- a lot of the Vertigo was at least partially connected to the mainstream DC universe. Doom Patrol, Swamp Thing, Sandman ( both variants) and many others-- Constantine !-- walk into and out of the "new Earth" universe.
So, I've been watching the JLA cartoon lately and I mostly noted 2 things.
1. Wonder Woman's only power seem to be deflecting projectiles with her wrist bands. No matter if it's bullets, lasers or magic.
2. John Stewart is the MOST BORING Green Lantern ever. All he ever does is shoot beams and make round shields. At least Hal Jordan used hammers or something.
Nope, Vertigo is DC for adults/non-tights crowd. It exists within mainstream DC and has several characters appear in DC(the current Sandman, Daniel Hall, is the son of the previous Dr. Fate and grandson to Hawkman and has affected the DC storyline several times) or an older DC character with more mature themes(Wesley Dodds Sandman has been revived this way). Also, most newer versions of Vertigo TPBs and even some comics sport the DC logo in addition to the Vertigo label.
what's wrong with the cartoon? it was alright but I liked batman beyond a lot better. sure it was for kids but I liked it and the theme song was pretty good
Superman... why need a team? (Excpet when faced by the very human Lex Luthor)
Batman is better by himself.
Flash I like but Quicksilver is better
Green lantern can be foiled by a guy in a yellow jumpsuit. At least until 2006 when DC retconned the ring's long-established lack of effect on yellow objects, stating that the ring-wielder need only feel fear and overcome it in order to affect yellow objects. 'OOOhhh I'm scared of yellow!'
Quicksilver?! Flash out runs him quicksilver clocks off at the speed of sound while the flash clocks off at the speed of light and there are several flashes
The green lantern's weakness was made by the guardians to stop any rogue lanterns and batman can't take on gods on his own you know
Superman I guess your right
The avengers?! look I have nothing against them but they are so fractured I mean you got the mighty avengers, secret avengers, new avengers and the young avengers and the dark avengers. If you put them all together they can't even decide to get a glass of water without someone yell against that and causing a massive fight which then becomes a civil war while the JLA all can agree with each other and accepts anyone into their ranks as long as they can prove they are fighting for good I mean the ultramarine corps were bad guys but they were inducted into the league after realising the truth while the avengers all kill each other
Thinking about it, my biggest problem with DC is that most of their villains are simply evil palette swaps with the good guy. So DC heroes and villains don't have uniqueness. Example?
Superman - he's unique in the universe, the last of a extinct race. But then there are loads of these guys from the Phantom Zone. And then there are "clones" like Bizarro.
Wonder Woman? she's unique, er, nope, lots of Amazons, some good some bad.
Shazam? He's got an evil emo brother who wears black.
Green Lantern? Oh, there's a whole Corps of these guys. And then there's a color-swapped anti-Corps.
And this repeats for practically everybody except Batman, who has a distinctive rogue's gallery out of Arkham.
Plus, DC was huge on the juniorization to further dilute things. (Which is why Bucky had to die)
Marvel, OTOH, wants everybody to be their own special snowflake, pushing for "No Duplicates".
You just have to look at the X-Men and Avengers torchbearers to see how this plays out. Each "mutant" has different powers, and their opposing teams have different powers and strategies as well.
I was never really that impressed by any Avenger stories.
The line up itself never makes much or any sense given the veritable whos who of herodom in the 616 universe, and they don't actually ever Avenge anything, making the name a bit spank.
Peel and Steed were better.
The point of the JLA- if done right-- is that it handles threats too big for even the big S to handle on his own.
I do miss J'onn J'onzz though, R.I.P. Glad to see Firestorm back in the line up though.
Imperial your forgetting the jr JLA (can't remember the full name)that existed . The JLA in the future and the Teen titans. Both franchises have cloned their Mega team franchises.
Marvel had the Fantastic Four, to which DC has no equivalent. I say had because I enjoyed the comic but Jessica Alba as Sue Richards just about killed it for me.
The junior JLA i forgot but the teen titans were a different team altogether and young justice was a branch of the titans and the challengers of the unkown are DC's answer to the FF
ed up by Quesada. DAMN YOU QUESADA AND YOUR HATE FOR CONTUNITY!!!
...)
