My local 'F'LGS just started REQUIRING a 3 colour minimum on all models in the army for next months RTT. I can only guess this is some hairbrained attempt at fixing ailing attendance...either that or some of the guys that 'run' the store are imposing themselves on the store owner in an attempt to establish dominance in the 40k community locally. (sometimes gamers can be sickeningly sad in their attempts to become the 'alpha-male' amongst other nerds that have never gotten laid)

I've played at the stores RTT's for the last 4-5 years or so, and never have I been excluded. I typically have a habit of playing unpainted armies in the local RTT's up until GT's or MAJOR events that cause me to finish painting, after which I typically get bored with said painted army and go on to my next project....buying more models from the store in question.

Now all of a sudden, due to certain people in the store I suspect...the ones that have trouble winning against some of us that are really good players but dont paint as a priority to play in local RTT's....the store is requiring a 3 color minimum on all models in the army in order to play in a simple RTT.

I've started to put 3 dots on each model in my current army as a result...mithril, chainmail, and boltgun metal.

If thats not good enough, the store will have to do without my $15 entry fee...along with all the others that dont paint their full armies.

Humans...what a stupid breed.

Sounds like an evil conspiracy of your enemies'!!!

Or maybe people just don't like playing against unpainted armies...

I dunno, the last 4-5 years seemed to produce some pretty decent RTT's.

I guess they werent happy with the 20+ player attendence that they had at $15 dollars a pop.

Store was making too much money I guess. (RTT's have recently fallen to 6-10 players in the last few months since last May or so)

Show up with the most god awful eye shattering color scheme, one that will make your opponent's eyes water after an hour. Highlight it and everything, use rage as a motivation to finish.

Or directly confront whoever is responsible for the policy change and have a polite discussion on why paint standards were changed. If you are unable to come to resolution have a town hall meeting or petition and let the community decide.

Well... I have a rule of not fielding anything until the entire army is painted, so I wouldn't really have a problem with that, although I see where you're coming from. I personally don't care whether someone's army is painted(unless it's mine).

Still, its nice if they're at least primed. I'm a bit of a germaphobe, so having to touch that metal with nothing covering it is a bit... unsettling. You can't even tell if they've washed off the release agent. I think the reason why is that they don't want someone just buying out half the store the day before, and coming with half a tonne of crap to throw on the table with no clue what to do with it.

But, hey, you're Grey Knights. You have... what? 2 models to paint

Those bastards, trying to force players to actually take part in the *hobby* aspects instead of catering toward every flavor of TFG who can't even bother to buy a can of spray paint once in a while...

Do they say they have to be the same three colors?

Deadshane1 wrote:
I've started to put 3 dots on each model in my current army as a result...mithril, chainmail, and boltgun metal.

If thats not good enough, the store will have to do without my $15 entry fee...along with all the others that dont paint their full armies.

Humans...what a stupid breed.

As a former tournament organizer, I'd throw you out on your butt.

If you don't like it don't attend. This is a sort of tourney attempting to push at least a minimum of painting and othetr aspects, not just raw gaming. The idea of playing against "the grey frontier" does not reflect on other aspects of the tourney. Unless you are a newb (haven't said that in a few years) there's no excuse for at least a least this base level of painting on your minis. Its also a leading economic indicator that a player who brings an unpainted force may be TFG. If you want to play a Ard Boyz tournament fine, play those tourneys.

Deadshane1 wrote:My local 'F'LGS just started REQUIRING a 3 colour minimum on all models in the army for next months RTT. I can only guess this is some hairbrained attempt at fixing ailing attendance...either that or some of the guys that 'run' the store are imposing themselves on the store owner in an attempt to establish dominance in the 40k community locally. (sometimes gamers can be sickeningly sad in their attempts to become the 'alpha-male' amongst other nerds that have never gotten laid)

I've played at the stores RTT's for the last 4-5 years or so, and never have I been excluded. I typically have a habit of playing unpainted armies in the local RTT's up until GT's or MAJOR events that cause me to finish painting, after which I typically get bored with said painted army and go on to my next project....buying more models from the store in question.

Now all of a sudden, due to certain people in the store I suspect...the ones that have trouble winning against some of us that are really good players but dont paint as a priority to play in local RTT's....the store is requiring a 3 color minimum on all models in the army in order to play in a simple RTT.

I've started to put 3 dots on each model in my current army as a result...mithril, chainmail, and boltgun metal.

If thats not good enough, the store will have to do without my $15 entry fee...along with all the others that dont paint their full armies.

Humans...what a stupid breed.

So don't go.

Judging by your posts on here, you probably won't be missed

Well.... you could just, you know, paint the models maybe ?

I only really started attending the UK GTs as it forces me to actually move beyond undercoating my models, and it does feel good when you get them done.

I'm assuming this is only at or around 2ks worth of models yeah ?

C'mon, yuou can manage that. Think of the time it'll save you later when you're ready to attend the events you do field painted armies at-- more practise time might equal a better finish perhaps ?

Oh, that's not a dig or anything, honest !

Deadshane1 wrote:I've started to put 3 dots on each model in my current army as a result...mithril, chainmail, and boltgun metal.

Sadly, it looks like their attempt to politely exclude power gamers and rules lawyers is already backfiring.

No. I've seen that in the past where someone will show up with such. You should see the look on their face when they can't play-what fun!

I thought the RTT's always had a 3-color standard.

Is every RTT in your club following that guideline now? If so, I would suggest that you try to encourage "painted RTTs" and "unpainted RTTs" so nobody is forced to play the hobby the "right" way if they don't want to...

Greets
Schepp himself

Ifurita wrote:I thought the RTT's always had a 3-color standard.

Agreed. The basic RTT rules that are put out by GW and most RTT organizers merely cut-and-paste to list as their own tournament rules requires three color minimum with no bare metal/plastic and/or primer showing.

While my own painting ability is suspect at best, I still manage to meet this minimum for any tournament I have played in 5+ years. What's the big deal? My former Alpha Legion list had a paint scheme that consisted of exactly three colors; I literally only opened three different jars of paint for the entire army. Won't win any painting awards, but at least I can play....

Run your own tourney if you don't like it.

I think it's pretty reasonable for RTTs to require painting, and I always thought that an official GW RTT required painted armies (maybe that has changed in the last few years).

We ran our own tourney in early November and didn't require painted armies, but you weren't eligible for Best Gamer if you didn't paint your own arm. I think that is a reasonable compromise. In face, the Best Gamer had a record of 1-2, but excellent painting and sportsmanship scores along with 10 of 16 'favorite army' and 3 of 3 'best opponent' votes which carried him over a 3-0 army with low to average painting and sports scores.

I feel the pain of not having a painted army, and have skipped some tournies because I didn't have stuff painted, but it's the organizer's choice.

I find it ironic that a power-gamer is throwing rocks about people trying to be king nerd.

Locally (there are three local shops that run tournaments) we have three different types of tournies. A Ard Boyz type with no soft scores or painting, a full-on RTT with 3-color minimum (all primer covered) and a paint score (you cannot win anything if you have 3 dots of paint), and a mid-range one with a paint score, but it's only used for a tie-breaker, and no paint requirement.

Personally the painting requirement is to make the tourney more of a spectacle and gather true hobbyists that utilize the whole hobby. There's nothing wrong with the hardcore tourney "I can't be bothered to paint (yet)" guys, it just gets really boring. There's nothing like going to a tourney and seeing tons of cool armies with different ideas of how the armies should look. It kinda sucks to have to paly some gray horde after palying a really nice looking army.

So I say, let them play a tourney where they want everyone to have painted armies. You may try and participate in a positive manner by using it as a goal to get stuff painted (that's how 90% of my stuff gets done!) instead of being an ass and painting little dots on things. If you cannot bring ourself to do that, it looks like you're left out. If they cannot get attendance with a paint requirement they will probably drop it anyway.

dietrich wrote:Run your own tourney if you don't like it.

Um. Then he can't play?

Deadshane1 wrote:My local 'F'LGS just started REQUIRING a 3 colour minimum on all models in the army for next months RTT. I can only guess this is some hairbrained attempt at fixing ailing attendance...either that or some of the guys that 'run' the store are imposing themselves on the store owner in an attempt to establish dominance in the 40k community locally. (sometimes gamers can be sickeningly sad in their attempts to become the 'alpha-male' amongst other nerds that have never gotten laid)

I've played at the stores RTT's for the last 4-5 years or so, and never have I been excluded. I typically have a habit of playing unpainted armies in the local RTT's up until GT's or MAJOR events that cause me to finish painting, after which I typically get bored with said painted army and go on to my next project....buying more models from the store in question.

Now all of a sudden, due to certain people in the store I suspect...the ones that have trouble winning against some of us that are really good players but dont paint as a priority to play in local RTT's....the store is requiring a 3 color minimum on all models in the army in order to play in a simple RTT.

I've started to put 3 dots on each model in my current army as a result...mithril, chainmail, and boltgun metal.

If thats not good enough, the store will have to do without my $15 entry fee...along with all the others that dont paint their full armies.

Humans...what a stupid breed.

I have trouble getting my stuff painted except for big events (GT's) as well, however I don't think this is some evil plot as you seem to be considering. I'd say its more likely a lot of the gamers got tired of facing the "flavor of the month" power gamer armies that never get painted because they're recently purchased. Also, I do like to play versus painted armies, and typically my store is willing to make case by case exceptions for RTT's if you're known, you're making progress, and a decent amount is painted. But showing up with bare plastic to every event isn't acceptable.

Thats why we typically have "shop tourneys" and official "RTT's". Shop tourneys are no painting requirement, RTT's are painting required.

I'd also say its not too mature to, instead of just putting down a basic paint scheme, drop 3 dots of color just to thumb your nose at the tourney organizer. If you just went and discussed it with him "Hey, I heard about the new painting rules, and I'm really sorry, but I don't think I have the time required to get my painting finished for the tournament, do you mind if some of my army is unpainted while I'm working on it, as I'd still like to play" he'd probably say its fine, and to go ahead and have fun.

There are in game reasons for requiring painting. A horde army is very confusing if it's a gray horde- you need colours to help differentiate units.
Aside from that, 3 colours isn't going to break the bank. All you've gotta do is put on your base coats on three areas, and that's it.
I usually ask for 3 colours when I run a tournament but it is generally disregarded. I've tended to let people play anyway to keep numbers up but I have been tempted to tell people to go away.

I don't understand why someone would want to play with unpainted figures. They just look like generic bits of metal and plastic until there's some paint on them.

Why is three colours so demand for a tournament? Why is there indignance about laziness being challenged?

Tournaments are supposed to be a spectacle to all that attend, it's open to the public as well as the gamers isn't it? Well what good does it do to play games where someone hasn't bothered to paint their army?

In short - it looks gak.

malfred wrote:

dietrich wrote:Run your own tourney if you don't like it.

Um. Then he can't play?

Find a judge. Doesn't mean that you can't set up the venue, arrange prize support, develop missions, print tourney packages for the players - there's a lot of behind the scenes work to a tourney that can all be done by someone that wants to play in it. If you want to be a sport, exempt yourself from the prizes, but there's really nothing wrong with setting up and playing in your own tourney, provided you find someone else to be the judge(s).

Howard A Treesong wrote:I don't understand why someone would want to play with unpainted figures. They just look like generic bits of metal and plastic until there's some paint on them.

Why is three colours so demand for a tournament? Why is there indignance about laziness being challenged?

Tournaments are supposed to be a spectacle to all that attend, it's open to the public as well as the gamers isn't it? Well what good does it do to play games where someone hasn't bothered to paint their army?

In short - it looks gak.

I don't understand why people refuse to play with unpainted figs. A lot of the armies I see are painted so terribly that they honestly look better gray.

Not everyone is interested in the painting part of the hobby just as not everyone is interested in the competitive aspect of the hobby. When you don't like painting, painting 50+ figures feels like a tremendous amount of wasted time.

Danny Internets wrote:

Not everyone is interested in the painting part of the hobby just as not everyone is interested in the competitive aspect of the hobby. When you don't like painting, painting 50+ figures feels like a tremendous amount of wasted time.

Thats fine. Play at tourneys that don't have painting requirements. Trying to barge in on tourneys that DO have requirements with an unpainted army, or one with three dots, doesn't meet the requirements of that tourney. Its a simple thing.

Frazzled wrote:

As a former tournament organizer, I'd throw you out on your butt.

If you don't like it don't attend. This is a sort of tourney attempting to push at least a minimum of painting and othetr aspects, not just raw gaming. The idea of playing against "the grey frontier" does not reflect on other aspects of the tourney. Unless you are a newb (haven't said that in a few years) there's no excuse for at least a least this base level of painting on your minis. Its also a leading economic indicator that a player who brings an unpainted force may be TFG. If you want to play a Ard Boyz tournament fine, play those tourneys.

Your welcome to. But then I'd permantly take my money elsewhere. And any friends to.

Saldiven wrote:
Agreed. The basic RTT rules that are put out by GW and most RTT organizers merely cut-and-paste to list as their own tournament rules requires three color minimum with no bare metal/plastic and/or primer showing.

Except, judging by some of the complaints frm club mates various stories of attending GT's and RT's....GW doesnt always adhear to their own rules about painting.

Danny Internets wrote:Not everyone is interested in the painting part of the hobby just as not everyone is interested in the competitive aspect of the hobby. When you don't like painting, painting 50+ figures feels like a tremendous amount of wasted time.

I don't find every part of the hobby interesting. I can't say I'm thrilled by removing mould lines for a start, still manage it though.

Anyway, the comparison you make isn't the same. Playing with the figures isn't a requirement to enjoying the painted article, they can be fully appreciated when not on the field of battle but on display. But the quality of playing with them is diminished by not presenting them properly, ie, painting and assembling to a minimal standard.

You could equally argue against realistic terrain. You can play over a tartan coloured rug with beer cans for buildings, they serve just as effectively according to the raw. But the game is not done any favours for it.

carmachu wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

As a former tournament organizer, I'd throw you out on your butt.

If you don't like it don't attend. This is a sort of tourney attempting to push at least a minimum of painting and othetr aspects, not just raw gaming. The idea of playing against "the grey frontier" does not reflect on other aspects of the tourney. Unless you are a newb (haven't said that in a few years) there's no excuse for at least a least this base level of painting on your minis. Its also a leading economic indicator that a player who brings an unpainted force may be TFG. If you want to play a Ard Boyz tournament fine, play those tourneys.

Your welcome to. But then I'd permantly take my money elsewhere. And any friends to.

I'm sure thats the idea.

I thought this was a standard rule for a lot of tournies. *shrugs*

Deadshane1,

This whole thread pretty much confirms that the Wrecking Crew (or at least a portion of it) doesn't care about being a good sport or being a good opponent (by trying to break the tournament requirements through a loophole)

Deadshane1 wrote:
Humans...what a stupid breed.

Yep! Not only that but some are also lazy

Seriously, do you play golf without golfballs? or skydiving without paras?
Its not a tournament imposition in order to exclude you, its just part of the freaking hobby you choosed to play.

djones520 wrote:I thought this was a standard rule for a lot of tournies. *shrugs*

I did as well, except with a few special exceptions noted in by the tourney. I have been to both, but every "generic RTT" I have been to that had a fee involved had that requirement.

I think there are three parallel issues here.

The first issue is if RTTs should, in general, encourage or require painted models. I think that as 40k is a multi-faceted hobby, there are plenty of ways to celebrate the various aspects. Hard boys and "store tournies" are often solely about battle points, while more formal RTTs and GTs have a wider lens. There is plenty of room for both in the hobby. A store near me, for example, does four RTTs a year, with 9 store tournaments in the off months without any paint requirement. A lot of gamers like painted armies, a lot don't, so there's plenty of room for compromise.

The second issue is changing rules for store tournaments solely or even mostly to exclude certain people. I have no problem with excluding folks that the store doesn't want to game (if they are abusive, cheaters, or just plain obnoxious), but any attempt to push people out simply because they win a lot is both shady and petty. If in this particular case, the rules were changed simply to push out the OP and his boys because they win too much, that is dishonorable in the extreme. Of course, it's very hard to distinguish motive in cases like this. Given that paint requirements are in general a good thing, it's hard to tell when the change is simply to increase the hobby aspect and when it is malicious.

The third issue is trying to dodge the requirements with some sort of gimmick. Three dots, the layer approach (take a model, dip fully in color 1, dip 2/3 in color 2, and 1/3 in color 3) and other methods are a clear violation of the spirit of the rule, and often a violation of the actual rules. I think that any such attempt shoudl result in being barred from the tournament, particularly if it were advertised and promoted as painted only. The reason is a simple one: if even one person changed their optimum list because they didn't have a unit painted up, it's unfair to allow people with unpainted armies in the door.

A related issue that is tightly related is the simply fact that a bona fide three color standard is simply not difficult to attain. Prime the models, then spray with the main color, pick out the base, pick out the weapon, and paint a few details. Throw on a wash if you want and you're done. Now, I think that having tournaments without paint requirements is a good thing as it allows a player to try out units before painting them, but a steady stream of paint required RTTs does not seem overly onerous, and it often is more inclusive to a wider range of hobbyists.

Tazok wrote:Deadshane1,

This whole thread pretty much confirms that the Wrecking Crew (or at least a portion of it) doesn't care about being a good sport or being a good opponent (by trying to break the tournament requirements through a loophole)

That isn't quite fair. All you have is a single member of the group expressing his view.

Regarding painting. For Orks (what I'm working on now), prime black, drybrush Boltgun Metal, drybrush Gnarloc Green, and then drybrush brown for the pants. You can probably do all of this with a #4 flat brush.

I feel your pain for not being able to play because of paint requirements, I really do, it took me a year to paint 1,500Points of necrons >.< and my Orks are not getting any prittyer by the day.

But suck it the frak up kiddo. Damb, you cry like a little girl because you have to paint (Or get some one els to paint for you like I am ) your army. Clearly you have no time problems, your just lazy.

Frazzled wrote:

djones520 wrote:I thought this was a standard rule for a lot of tournies. *shrugs*

I did as well, except with a few special exceptions noted in by the tourney. I have been to both, but every "generic RTT" I have been to that had a fee involved had that requirement.

My FLGS doesn't do Rogue Traders yet, so the tournies they hold they don't require that minimum, but they do base a part of your score on painting. That 3 color thing is supposed to get you a 3 out of 5 score. Some paint will get you 2, and none will get you 1. Once we switch to RTT's (which is supposed to be soon), I'm not sure if this store will enforce the must have 3 color rules, since I think I'm the only person right now who can field a fully painted army, but it'll probably be done eventually.

Polonius wrote:

The third issue is trying to dodge the requirements with some sort of gimmick. Three dots, the layer approach (take a model, dip fully in color 1, dip 2/3 in color 2, and 1/3 in color 3) and other methods are a clear violation of the spirit of the rule, and often a violation of the actual rules.

Dipping is a violation of the spirit of the rules of a three color requirement? Really?

I've found that there is a higher quality participation in tournaments that have a painting requirement, than at those without.

There's a trade off, to be sure. You get more people attending tournaments without requirements. However, many of the people that go to the unpainted tournaments are mouthbreathers.

That's not to say everyone who doesn't want to paint an army is like that, but I'd venture to say that for every quality gamer who will show up because there is no painting requirement, two more quality gamers will stay home for the same reason. You get a larger overall tournament without requiring painted armies, but at the cost of quality participation.

I know that when I first heard about the Gorilla Tactics con/tournament, I was all set to drive out to Michigan. When I heard that there was no painting requirement, or score, I figured why bother?

I think it sucks for you (Deadshane) that the store that you've been playing at is changing their approach. But, that is their choice. Trying to rules-lawyer the tournament entry requirements is pretty lame though.

I think he meant dipping in thirds

malfred wrote:Dipping is a violation of the spirit of the rules of a three color requirement? Really?

I'd say it is if you're just doing it easter egg style.

....rrrrrrr.....
....rrrrrrr.....
..yyyyyyyy..
..yyyyyyyy..
..bbbbbbbb..
..bbbbbbbb..

malfred wrote:

Polonius wrote:

The third issue is trying to dodge the requirements with some sort of gimmick. Three dots, the layer approach (take a model, dip fully in color 1, dip 2/3 in color 2, and 1/3 in color 3) and other methods are a clear violation of the spirit of the rule, and often a violation of the actual rules.

Dipping is a violation of the spirit of the rules of a three color requirement? Really?

I don't think he's referring to the dipping technique, but rather, to dipping the models into a paint pot in order to get a color on their feet...

Polonius wrote:
The second issue is changing rules for store tournaments solely or even mostly to exclude certain people. I have no problem with excluding folks that the store doesn't want to game (if they are abusive, cheaters, or just plain obnoxious), but any attempt to push people out simply because they win a lot is both shady and petty. If in this particular case, the rules were changed simply to push out the OP and his boys because they win too much, that is dishonorable in the extreme. Of course, it's very hard to distinguish motive in cases like this. Given that paint requirements are in general a good thing, it's hard to tell when the change is simply to increase the hobby aspect and when it is malicious.

I would find it terribly hard to believe that this is the sole reason they're enforcing this rule. The reason I believe that is the fact that all the players have to do to avoid the attempted exclusion is to paint their darn minis.

My aforementioned Alpha Legion three-color army was completely painted in two days before a tournament that required painting. It consisted of 62 infantry models. It really isn't that difficult to achieve the three color requirement if you decide to do it. This coming from someone (me) that absolutely hates painting.

Deadshane, have you tried talking to the folks running the tournament to see what the reason for the change is? Have you confirmed or disproved your suspicions?

Next, you have to ask yourself one real question: how important is the tournament to you? If it's really important - just paint your figs and get it over with. Once you've painted them - then that force is done, and you could use it again in future tournaments without a concern.

Personally, I support the decision to require painted figs. It would be like buying a Christmas tree, and then wondering why the family insists on decorating it. The aesthetic application of decoration (in this case, paint) is considered an important part of the whole.

And if I were in your shoes and was able to confirm the suspicions you had, I would be doubly motivated to splash some paint on, meet the rules, and then DOMINATE the goonies out of the tournament.

You mentioned that RTT participation at your LGS has dropped off... perhaps this is just an experiment to see if they can rekindle some interest in their tournaments? If participation was already at an all time low - could they do worse by installing this rule?

Most tournaments I've been in (when I used to go to them), almost always required painted figs (sometimes even only two colors), and they would definitely disqualify folks who tried to 'get around' the rule (i.e. dipping & dotting, etc). It gave me another motivation to actually paint my figs - since participating in those tournaments was important enough to me at the time.

Regardless of your stance on the topic, though - it'd be a good idea (in my opinion) to find out the 'why', before writing-off the store, the staff, or any specific people who might very well be innocent of any perceived insult.

Just my 2 coppers, tho, and good luck if you are able to make it into the tourny!

I smell a troll.

Anyways I am a member of the WC and have well over 10 awards for painting... many of them are from GTs as well.

G

Yes, I meant dipping easter egg style. Prime a marine white, dip fully in watered down yellow. Let it dry, then dip partially in watered down red. Let dry, then dip the head in watered down purple. Voila! Three colors on each model!

Everyone whom hates painting but loves a painted army should PM me and I'll paint your army for a moderate fee. really, I could use the business!

Saldiven wrote:
I would find it terribly hard to believe that this is the sole reason they're enforcing this rule. The reason I believe that is the fact that all the players have to do to avoid the attempted exclusion is to paint their darn minis.

I know nothing about the situation, but don't find it hard to believe that one gaming clique would do something passive aggressive to screw with another gaming clique. Maybe I'm cynical, but I've seen gaming groups (in all types of games) get really nasty from time to time. It is certainly in the realm of possibility.

And FWIW, there are those, like me, who wouldn't play in any kind of RTT or tournament without a painting requirement.

The local GW battlebunker doesn't require painted armies (or even apparently an attempt at painted armies) to play in the bunker, and as a result, I don't play there, and they don't get my business.

Playing against painted armies is one of the few remaining joys in tournaments. Sure, some are better than others, but there is at least a minimal investment if you've painted the army.

And heck, if you've got all of those other painted armies that you're bored with, you could always use one of those, couldn't you.

Redbeard wrote:

malfred wrote:

Polonius wrote:

The third issue is trying to dodge the requirements with some sort of gimmick. Three dots, the layer approach (take a model, dip fully in color 1, dip 2/3 in color 2, and 1/3 in color 3) and other methods are a clear violation of the spirit of the rule, and often a violation of the actual rules.

Dipping is a violation of the spirit of the rules of a three color requirement? Really?

I don't think he's referring to the dipping technique, but rather, to dipping the models into a paint pot in order to get a color on their feet...

Okay, I get it now. That's hilarious!

Have you ever seen it done?

Frazzled wrote:

Danny Internets wrote:

Not everyone is interested in the painting part of the hobby just as not everyone is interested in the competitive aspect of the hobby. When you don't like painting, painting 50+ figures feels like a tremendous amount of wasted time.

Thats fine. Play at tourneys that don't have painting requirements. Trying to barge in on tourneys that DO have requirements with an unpainted army, or one with three dots, doesn't meet the requirements of that tourney. Its a simple thing.

How is he barging in? There is a painting requirement and he meets the requirement. End of story. If that requirement is not sufficient for the tournament that is the fault of the TO (or whoever wrote the rules), not the player. It's not like the dot or dippings techniques are new--people have been using them for years when there are painting requirements.

Enforce the rules that you devise--not a set of secret guidelines that you should have told everyone about but didn't. If you only want fully painting armies playing then say only fully painted armies are permitted. If you only want Golden Daemon award winners playing then state that. It's a simple thing.

Danny Internets wrote:
Enforce the rules that you devise--not a set of secret guidelines that you should have told everyone about but didn't. If you only want fully painting armies playing then say only fully painted armies are permitted. If you only want Golden Daemon award winners playing then state that. It's a simple thing.

Are you advocating a RAW approach to tournament entrance?

If the guidelines state-must be painted, and he shows up with an unpainted army, or one with "three dots" then he hasn't met the requirements of the tourney and he is out.

Thats in his post-painted is a requirement for those tournaments.

My local 'F'LGS just started REQUIRING a 3 colour minimum on all models in the army for next months RTT. I can only guess this is some hairbrained attempt at fixing ailing attendance...either that or some of the guys that 'run' the store are imposing themselves on the store owner in an attempt to establish dominance in the 40k community locally. (sometimes gamers can be sickeningly sad in their attempts to become the 'alpha-male' amongst other nerds that have never gotten laid)

Please show the road from “my FLGS started requiring” to "set of secret guidelines" Danny Internets. This should be interesting.

Ok, I didn't read all the comments as I got into this late.

But here is my take.

I was so angry when my local Games Workshop store relaxed their painting policy and let everyone play with unpainted models.

I hate playing against hordes of grey or black troops, such a boring game, as the person you are playing doesn't care enough about the hobby to paint his damned figures.

The argument about playing unpainted until a GT isn't very solid IMHO, as it is again just showing you have no interest in the hobby, just winning games.

I will dock huge points from peoples scores if they show up with unpainted or half painted armies to GTs and the like, but I will also do the same if they bring that to a RTT, as it shows they are just lazy.

Use last years army until the new one is painted, I'm sure the boredom of said army can't be that overwhelming, and if it is? Well that is just more incentive to paint a new army faster

carmachu wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

As a former tournament organizer, I'd throw you out on your butt.

If you don't like it don't attend. This is a sort of tourney attempting to push at least a minimum of painting and othetr aspects, not just raw gaming. The idea of playing against "the grey frontier" does not reflect on other aspects of the tourney. Unless you are a newb (haven't said that in a few years) there's no excuse for at least a least this base level of painting on your minis. Its also a leading economic indicator that a player who brings an unpainted force may be TFG. If you want to play a Ard Boyz tournament fine, play those tourneys.

Your welcome to. But then I'd permantly take my money elsewhere. And any friends to.

With an attitude like that, I doubt you'd have many friends to begin with.

Polonius wrote:

Saldiven wrote:
I would find it terribly hard to believe that this is the sole reason they're enforcing this rule. The reason I believe that is the fact that all the players have to do to avoid the attempted exclusion is to paint their darn minis.

I know nothing about the situation, but don't find it hard to believe that one gaming clique would do something passive aggressive to screw with another gaming clique. Maybe I'm cynical, but I've seen gaming groups (in all types of games) get really nasty from time to time. It is certainly in the realm of possibility.

Hahaha...well, I guess it's because I'm aggressive-aggressive; if I didn't want a guy playing in my tourney, I'd tell him so and invite him to either quietly observe or go home. Instituting a painting rule such as this wouldn't occur to me....

1) You spend all that money on miniatures and yet you
don't paint them.....why?
2) You spend all that money on miniatures and yet you
decide only to put 3 dots of paint on them...why?
3) Are you sure you're happy to spend all that money
and yet not get the full benefit from completed
miniatures?
4)Are you only interested in winning at all cost?Dare
I say it a powergamer?
5)If you are at all interested in the spirit of the
hobby you really should paint your figures.Trust me,
you'll get more respect.
6)Unpainted miniatures....why?

Ifurita wrote:

Tazok wrote:Deadshane1,

This whole thread pretty much confirms that the Wrecking Crew (or at least a portion of it) doesn't care about being a good sport or being a good opponent (by trying to break the tournament requirements through a loophole)

That isn't quite fair. All you have is a single member of the group expressing his view.

I disagree, I think it is absolutely fair.

Especially given their reaction to the situation being to send 2 of their members here to run damage control and then bolt back to their forums when the attempt isn;t recieved as they expected.

Its more or less just one more bullet point on the already large list of why people don't respect them, and it is just as valid as any other.

Saldiven wrote:

Polonius wrote:

Saldiven wrote:
I would find it terribly hard to believe that this is the sole reason they're enforcing this rule. The reason I believe that is the fact that all the players have to do to avoid the attempted exclusion is to paint their darn minis.

I know nothing about the situation, but don't find it hard to believe that one gaming clique would do something passive aggressive to screw with another gaming clique. Maybe I'm cynical, but I've seen gaming groups (in all types of games) get really nasty from time to time. It is certainly in the realm of possibility.

Hahaha...well, I guess it's because I'm aggressive-aggressive; if I didn't want a guy playing in my tourney, I'd tell him so and invite him to either quietly observe or go home. Instituting a painting rule such as this wouldn't occur to me....

Well, then you're a credit to the hobby. In my experience the best gaming societies are run by either a benevolent by absolute dictator (a store employee or agent) or tend to be loosely governed by guys that tend to have big, loud personalities but have the actual best interests of the group at heart. In other words, a-holes that give a damn.

Fafnir wrote:I'm a bit of a germaphobe, so having to touch that metal with nothing covering it is a bit... unsettling.

Is metal infectious or something?

Painting your army is also a way to show that you respect your opponent.

I've only played in one RTT which had a painting requirement, and I was fortunate enough to go against all painted armies. Had I gotten that person who brought in the unpainted Tau, I would have been very disappointed, and also would have been looking for some sign that the person wasn't trying to pull a fast one - for example if all their models are grouped together and it's impossible to tell the squads apart, or nothing is clearly divided or organized.

Trying to rules-lawyer a painting requirement... That was amusing.

Tazok wrote:Deadshane1,

This whole thread pretty much confirms that the Wrecking Crew (or at least a portion of it) doesn't care about being a good sport or being a good opponent (by trying to break the tournament requirements through a loophole)

Wow. So not wanting to paint his models makes him neither a good sport nor a good opponent? I'm a terribly slow painter so, as such, I often field unpainted models. I didn't know I was being a bad sport by doing so.

Gimme a break. People will find any reason to bash on the WC these days (and no, I'm not in the WC).

Bunker wrote:

carmachu wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

As a former tournament organizer, I'd throw you out on your butt.

If you don't like it don't attend. This is a sort of tourney attempting to push at least a minimum of painting and othetr aspects, not just raw gaming. The idea of playing against "the grey frontier" does not reflect on other aspects of the tourney. Unless you are a newb (haven't said that in a few years) there's no excuse for at least a least this base level of painting on your minis. Its also a leading economic indicator that a player who brings an unpainted force may be TFG. If you want to play a Ard Boyz tournament fine, play those tourneys.

Your welcome to. But then I'd permantly take my money elsewhere. And any friends to.

With an attitude like that, I doubt you'd have many friends to begin with.

Heh. Should I?... I can't help it, the stupid is overwhelming... Here, I'll let you do it:

With an attitude like that, I doubt you'd have many friends to begin with.

Whew, I'm glad I got that off my chest.

Slipstream wrote:1) You spend all that money on miniatures and yet you
don't paint them.....why?
2) You spend all that money on miniatures and yet you
decide only to put 3 dots of paint on them...why?
3) Are you sure you're happy to spend all that money
and yet not get the full benefit from completed
miniatures?
4)Are you only interested in winning at all cost?Dare
I say it a powergamer?
5)If you are at all interested in the spirit of the
hobby you really should paint your figures.Trust me,
you'll get more respect.
6)Unpainted miniatures....why?

1) Are you saying he has to paint his models in order to get any satisfaction from them?
2) See above
3) Why are you trying to dictate how someone enjoys the hobby?
4) Dare I say pretentious?
5) See above
6) ??


Deadshane1: Take your models (and money) elsewhere. They have a right to run their tournament the way they want to and you have a right to vote with your feet/wallet.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

lord_blackfang wrote:Sadly, it looks like their attempt to politely exclude power gamers and rules lawyers is already backfiring.

I'd say it's working just fine, and will work even better once the TO starts to enforce the 3-color rule properly, as in "3 dots doesn't count".

____

Bunker wrote:So don't go.

Judging by your posts on here, you probably won't be missed

____

dietrich wrote:I find it ironic that a power-gamer is throwing rocks about people trying to be king nerd.

____

targetawg wrote:I'd say its more likely a lot of the gamers got tired of facing the "flavor of the month" power gamer armies that never get painted because they're recently purchased.

____

carmachu wrote:Your welcome to. But then I'd permantly take my money elsewhere. And any friends to.

That's also probably part of the intent behind the 3-color rule.
____

Tazok wrote:Deadshane1,

This whole thread pretty much confirms that the Wrecking Crew (or at least a portion of it) doesn't care about being a good sport or being a good opponent (by trying to break the tournament requirements through a loophole)

Ding-ding-ding!!!

We have a WINNAH!

I feel sad I was excluded from your list of quotes JohnnyHH, I want to be part of the in crowd too!

Oops, sorry Frazz. Next time.

Ozymandias wrote:

Wow. So not wanting to paint his models makes him neither a good sport nor a good opponent? I'm a terribly slow painter so, as such, I often field unpainted models. I didn't know I was being a bad sport by doing so.

You're glossing over the 1) whining about a time honored minimum painting standard; 2) the proposed snarky tactic of putting dots of paint on his list to meet the requirement. That just reeks of a cranial rectal inversion, and in no circumstance would I, if I were the tournament organizer, ever allow that player to enter that tournament-or any future tournaments.

I'm not saying the WC are a bunch of idiots. I'm saying ANYONE doing this runs the high risk of being laughed out of the tournament.
Inversely, if Deashane1 painted up a couple of "protest minis" with three dollups of paint in a humorous fashion, but then had at least a minimally painted list, then he's rocketing up for best sportsmen or theme or something.

What "time-honored painting standard?" I've never been to a LOCAL tournament that required I paint my models.

Besides, I wasn't responding to Deadshane or you, I was responding to the idiotic posts claiming moral hobby superiority.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Ozymandias wrote:What "time-honored painting standard?" I've never been to a LOCAL tournament that required I paint my models.

Besides, I wasn't responding to Deadshane or you, I was responding to the idiotic posts claiming moral hobby superiority.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Three paint standard was an RTT standard for years. You didn't have to, but the basic RTT came in that rules format.

Yup. Traditionally, "3-colors" was the bare minimum standard, meaning "fully-painted using at least 3 colors".

Then, GW got wound up over Black Templars and Necrons... :S

Frazzled wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:What "time-honored painting standard?" I've never been to a LOCAL tournament that required I paint my models.

Besides, I wasn't responding to Deadshane or you, I was responding to the idiotic posts claiming moral hobby superiority.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Three paint standard was an RTT standard for years. You didn't have to, but the basic RTT came in that rules format.

I have to say, this is my experience as well, I always remember rules for only fielding painted armys even in casual games at my local gw. I notice that not many uk people have posted in this thread so that might just be a uk thing.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Yup. Traditionally, "3-colors" was the bare minimum standard, meaning "fully-painted using at least 3 colors".

Then, GW got wound up over Black Templars and Necrons... :S

1) spray paint marine sprues black except backpacks and weapons.
2) spray paint weapons grey.
3) spray paint back packs bolt gun or different shade of grey.
4) assemble. Templars! Forward!

Ah, the internet, where tone and sarcasm can't be perceived. Maybe this was all meant to be an attempt at humor.

Deadshane is asking for abuse. Anyone that comes on here beating his chest about how awesome his gaming cliche is at claiming the title of King of All Minatures Gaming Nerds is asking for abuse. Mauleed certainly took his share, and when he wasn't suspended, Stelek did as well. Yak doesn't beat his chest much, and he takes abuse.

Having a painted army is my expectation of a tourney, and an unpainted tourney to me, is the exception, not the norm. And since the OP has played in national tournies, he must have some painted armies somewhere in his house. Which means that he's only trying to playtest his new uber-list out of the latest codex.

A few years ago, my Team CAGO played a Wrecking Crew team at Adepticon. They fielded a pretty nasty EC list out of the last CSM codex (the good one). I seem to remember that they were somehow better at both shooting and melee than my Space Wolves, and yet had about the same number of models. And I probably gave them sort of a "this was a pretty cheesy list and not fun to play against" score. Of the two guys I played against, one was super cool and I'd play against any day. The other came off as TFG. So, based on personal experience, WC is about 50/50 nice guys and TFG. Coming on and whining about an RTT going to a painted army standard and the whole "3-dot" comment sure paints the OP as TFG.

And my guess is that a lot of people that don't like his attitude have any experience playing the WC. So when someone comes onto a forum like this beating his chest, he's painting the whole group in a negative fashion.

Frazzled wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Yup. Traditionally, "3-colors" was the bare minimum standard, meaning "fully-painted using at least 3 colors".

Then, GW got wound up over Black Templars and Necrons... :S

1) spray paint marine sprues black except backpacks and weapons.
2) spray paint weapons grey.
3) spray paint back packs bolt gun or different shade of grey.
4) assemble. Templars! Forward!

You guys keep adding to my list of things to do. Maybe if I ever come upon a treasure
trove of unwanted single pose Marines I'll make a go at this.

Make a go? Thats my best painted army list!

Thats it Malf, I want my socks back!

Well, I wasn't going to use anything as fine as an air brush. I was going to buy
cans of Black, Red and something else and try to make some fugly Blud Marines.

There have been a few personal attacks in this thread (Bunker, Tazok, I'm looking at you). Quit it; you all know better. Yes, I know you may disagree with Deadshane. Or one of the posters criticizing Deadshane. But attack the post itself! I know that you get angry and caught up in the moment, but let's keep some modicum of civility here.

And honestly, personal attacks are so 1998. Make a witty comment or something.

While I'm ranting, one other thing I've seen lately are numerous attacks on the Wrecking Crew based on the behavior of one member. I don't know how you're extrapolating the behavior of one member to the entire group, but you must be using some sort of voodoo magic to do so. You wonder why the WC come defending their own? It's because people paint the entire club with the same brush, when in reality they're a bunch of strong-minded individuals that are all very different. I've only met one personally, but most of the members that post on Dakka are mostly quiet, quality posters that aren't here to start anything.

I'm a bit sensitive to this topic because people did (and still do, maybe, I don't know) view all Dakka posters as arrogant, rule-bending jerks due to a few vocal posters, and I hated being lumped in to that category due to the actions of a few people. It's all well and good to criticize someone, but be sure that you're doing it legitimately.

I know that many of you are going to mutter about me being "pro-WC", "unfairly biased" and "getting free miniatures from the Wrecking Crew". If you feel I am being unfair, PLEASE contact Yakface or one of the other mods (Frazzled is a Texan, so he's always a good bet). I do my best to be impartial.

For the record, I am very surprised at the level of reaction this topic has gotten. Deadshane, I think that while it does suck that your store did this to you, you're smart enough to figure out a way to fix it. Suggest periodic RTTs that don't require painted figs and let it be known that it's going to be catering to power lists. Complaining to us on Dakka, while cathartic, really won't help you with your problem.

whatwhat wrote:I have to say, this is my experience as well, I always remember rules for only fielding painted armys even in casual games at my local gw. I notice that not many uk people have posted in this thread so that might just be a uk thing.

The UK GT's, hell even the themed campaign weekends, require fully painted armies-- with the indeed time honoured 3 colour minimum-- as standard.

Sure you might get away with the odd not quite finished model here and there, but most of your force better be painted.

For the Uk 40k GTs at the moment : 3 heats with top 45 players from each heat going through. Each heat also sees X number of armies selected for "best painted"-- this is decided upon by bllot vote by the attendees. If you're nominated for this you also get a pass to the final as well.

Final in theory has about 140-150 players.

I'll never win best painted army, but I do appreciate some of the stunning work we see there.

I do still miss the quiz which was worth up to 20 extra points. I never scored less than 18 and usualy use to max out there. Ahhh... the good old days.

Every RTT I've ever played at required a painted army. You enjoyed your free ride, spray base and drybrush or don't play. Three colors is pitifully easy to accomplish. It's not even "finished" its "3 colors". Just base drybrush and ink. It'll give you the motivation to finish the army sooner rather than later and you won't lose models as easily as you would black ones. I'm running a totally unpainted army as it is and I don't expect to be allowed into tourneys of any size or structure beyond new guy centric outings.

Isn't Deadshane the self-proclaimed founder of the Wrecking Crew?

I love the way these things propogate. As far as I know he's not, but the history of the WC was posted in other threads.

Let me see if I can get a few started:

"Doesn't the Wrecking Crew bathe in babies blood before a tournament?"

"I heard that Dakka members killed a GW dev for making crappy rules."

Ozymandias, King of Kings

That last ones true. They then ate him.

Deadshane wrote, "Deadshane-Wrecking Crew Founding Member, GT regular since '96, never won anything better than 2nd place best sport (chicago '02?), 2 tourney per year min, last 3 adepticons under my belt, regular top 10% as an attainable goal, and shouldve won Canada '02 General if it wasnt for that blasted Shawn Kemp (I hate you dood! j/k, you'll get yours soon)..... "

In regard to tournaments and the issue or whether Gareth cheated or not he went on to say, "Representing WC, I'll go ahead and say to the community that we're sorry for any confusion on this subject. Wrecking Crews mission as stated on our website, is to form an elite group of competetive gamers that consider sportsmanship always as a major factor in placing highly in any tournement. Any of you out there that have met with us KNOW that we're all about the GAME. As an entire group, we're all about honest gaming. We don't use tricks as a rule and any deviation from that policy will be addressed within our own community."

I think he's idea of three color painting is a trick against the rules of the tournament. Do other WC members agree or disagree? If they agree what punishment will be enacted.

dietrich wrote:
A few years ago, my Team CAGO played a Wrecking Crew team at Adepticon. They fielded a pretty nasty EC list out of the last CSM codex (the good one)...

And my guess is that a lot of people that don't like his attitude have any experience playing the WC. So when someone comes onto a forum like this beating his chest, he's painting the whole group in a negative fashion.

A few years ago, at Adepticon, my team played a WC team (Kenny, Dave, Hod and someone else - the someone else having played against my teammates and not me), and I have nothing but good things to say about the experience. In that game, we fielded Emperor's Children (from the old, good codex) and they fielded Death Guard, and we split the games (we won on one table, they won on one table).

I've never had anything but positive experiences with any of them in person, and quite honestly, I'm pretty disgusted at anyone who hasn't played against them, or at least spoken to them in person, running their mouths (or fingers, behind the anonymity of the internet) about a group of other gamers. It's not like we're all not a bunch of nerds in our 20s and 30s (and 40s and 50s) playing with toy soldiers. Adding high school drama and gossiping about what other friends are doing is fit for a knitting circle, not wargamers.

Redbeard wrote:Adding high school drama and gossiping about what other friends are doing is fit for a knitting circle, not wargamers.

If you don't believe that there's more drama among wargamers, then you're not fully-tied into the wargaming "community". It's all high-school drama about favorites and group politics. The difference is that, most wargamers weren't sufficiently well-socialized in high school, so it's catching up 10+ years later than it should.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Those bastards, trying to force players to actually take part in the *hobby* aspects instead of catering toward every flavor of TFG who can't even bother to buy a can of spray paint once in a while...

I had a hard time, trying to decide between yours and Bunker's to QFT.

But seriously though, it doesn't help that you go, "Oh so I put 3 dots of paint on my guys". I can understand not painting, but things like this just make me have a dim view of people. Anything to win I suppose.

Aren't you part of the Wrecking Crew?

Highest level of sportsmanship, indeed.

Tazok wrote:Deadshane1,

This whole thread pretty much confirms that the Wrecking Crew (or at least a portion of it) doesn't care about being a good sport or being a good opponent (by trying to break the tournament requirements through a loophole)

Exactly. When Deadshane1 is not complaining about having to field painted armies he's defending people who bend rules to eek out tournament wins.

Iorek wrote:I know that many of you are going to mutter about me being "pro-WC", "unfairly biased" and "getting free miniatures from the Wrecking Crew".

What th'...you mean you can get free miniatures if you're biased and pro Wrecking Crew?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!


VIVA LA WRECKING CREW!!! NOT A BAD APPLE IN THE LOT!!

Vladsimpaler wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Those bastards, trying to force players to actually take part in the *hobby* aspects instead of catering toward every flavor of TFG who can't even bother to buy a can of spray paint once in a while...

I had a hard time, trying to decide between yours and Bunker's to QFT.

But seriously though, it doesn't help that you go, "Oh so I put 3 dots of paint on my guys". I can understand not painting, but things like this just make me have a dim view of people. Anything to win I suppose.

Aren't you part of the Wrecking Crew?

Highest level of sportsmanship, indeed.

I see your post and raise you one

Iorek wrote:

And honestly, personal attacks are so 1998. Make a witty comment or something.

While I'm ranting, one other thing I've seen lately are numerous attacks on the Wrecking Crew based on the behavior of one member. I don't know how you're extrapolating the behavior of one member to the entire group, but you must be using some sort of voodoo magic to do so. You wonder why the WC come defending their own? It's because people paint the entire club with the same brush, when in reality they're a bunch of strong-minded individuals that are all very different. I've only met one personally, but most of the members that post on Dakka are mostly quiet, quality posters that aren't here to start anything.

I'm a bit sensitive to this topic because people did (and still do, maybe, I don't know) view all Dakka posters as arrogant, rule-bending jerks due to a few vocal posters, and I hated being lumped in to that category due to the actions of a few people. It's all well and good to criticize someone, but be sure that you're doing it legitimately.

I know that many of you are going to mutter about me being "pro-WC", "unfairly biased" and "getting free miniatures from the Wrecking Crew". If you feel I am being unfair, PLEASE contact Yakface or one of the other mods (Frazzled is a Texan, so he's always a good bet). I do my best to be impartial.

For the record, I am very surprised at the level of reaction this topic has gotten. Deadshane, I think that while it does suck that your store did this to you, you're smart enough to figure out a way to fix it. Suggest periodic RTTs that don't require painted figs and let it be known that it's going to be catering to power lists. Complaining to us on Dakka, while cathartic, really won't help you with your problem.

And just for good measure:

Redbeard wrote:

A few years ago, at Adepticon, my team played a WC team (Kenny, Dave, Hod and someone else - the someone else having played against my teammates and not me), and I have nothing but good things to say about the experience. In that game, we fielded Emperor's Children (from the old, good codex) and they fielded Death Guard, and we split the games (we won on one table, they won on one table).

I've never had anything but positive experiences with any of them in person, and quite honestly, I'm pretty disgusted at anyone who hasn't played against them, or at least spoken to them in person, running their mouths (or fingers, behind the anonymity of the internet) about a group of other gamers. It's not like we're all not a bunch of nerds in our 20s and 30s (and 40s and 50s) playing with toy soldiers. Adding high school drama and gossiping about what other friends are doing is fit for a knitting circle, not wargamers.

I know it's fun to bash the WC as a more visible version of a tournament gamer, but come on, enough is enough already and frankly, your effort was a little late to the party and rather pathetic (once again, I'm not part of the WC and have never been to any national tournament).

Ozymandias, King of Kings

God, in the time it took for me to post there were two more gems.

In before lock!

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Redbeard wrote:Adding high school drama and gossiping about what other friends are doing is fit for a knitting circle, not wargamers.

If you don't believe that there's more drama among wargamers, then you're not fully-tied into the wargaming "community". It's all high-school drama about favorites and group politics. The difference is that, most wargamers weren't sufficiently well-socialized in high school, so it's catching up 10+ years later than it should.

I hear the Wrecking Crew is a total slut.

@Ozy: Be honest. With Deadshane's initial post, did you seriously expect this thread to go down any other path?

What's a TFG?

Ozymandias wrote:

-quotes removed-

I know it's fun to bash the WC as a more visible version of a tournament gamer, but come on, enough is enough already and frankly, your effort was a little late to the party and rather pathetic (once again, I'm not part of the WC and have never been to any national tournament).

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I'm not bashing the WC.

From what you've quoted they seem like a great group of people.

What I'm saying (or at least, tried to say) is that Deadshane is ruining it for the rest of them.

Whether you like it or not, groups are often perceived via the actions of 1 person. In this case, Deadshane.

By rules-lawyering his way into a tournament, my views have been dimmed. Because you know, why would the WC allow someone like this into their group?

Hopefully this makes sense. I have a terrible way with words.

@Ifurata:

"TFG" is generally defined in the Dakka glossary as "That F'n Guy" - if you mouse over "TFG", it'll even define it for you.

Basically, "TFG" is That F*ckin' Guy who we all generically rant against for bringing / doing something cheesy / sneaky / cheaty / unfair / unsporting.

HtH...

Vladsimpaler wrote:why would the WC allow someone like this into their group?

To be fair, they had no choice.

Deadshane is a co-Founder...

JohnHwangDD wrote:
If you don't believe that there's more drama among wargamers, then you're not fully-tied into the wargaming "community". It's all high-school drama about favorites and group politics. The difference is that, most wargamers weren't sufficiently well-socialized in high school, so it's catching up 10+ years later than it should.

Maybe you're right. I game with other adults. I also hang out with other bikers. The sort of stuff I see people posting here would get your ass kicked if you said it around my social group. But I guess you're all safe behind your computer screens, tossing out insults and condescending remarks at people you've never met.

Redbeard wrote:...tossing out insults and condescending remarks at people you've never met.

But wait, isn't that the whole point of the internet in the first place?

Redbeard wrote:I game with other adults.

I also hang out with other bikers.

The sort of stuff I see people posting here would get your ass kicked if you said it around my social group. But I guess you're all safe behind your computer screens, tossing out insults and condescending remarks at people you've never met.

So do the rest of us. The thing is, you conflate physical maturity among gamers with social / emotional maturity...

What do you ride?

Here in Australia it has gon ethe other way.

Fully painted armies used to be mandatory but now if you don't have the army painted your painting scores are crippled and you have almost no chance of winning. And numbers are up.

I was halfwaythrough painting my lizardmen in Feb last year, and came 6th, if it had been fully painted I'd have come 2nd.

No problems with not getting the place, and as I thought I had no chance of winning i relaxed alot more but things just went my way (I suspect because I wasn't so intense).

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Redbeard wrote:Adding high school drama and gossiping about what other friends are doing is fit for a knitting circle, not wargamers.

If you don't believe that there's more drama among wargamers, then you're not fully-tied into the wargaming "community". It's all high-school drama about favorites and group politics. The difference is that, most wargamers weren't sufficiently well-socialized in high school, so it's catching up 10+ years later than it should.

QFT John. At my old gaming club there was more bitching than a sack full of bitches. Its part of the reason I left the hobby for so long, there was just too much unfriendliness & poor sportsmanship.

btw, can anyone tell me what the wrecking crew is? Im a bit late to the discussion & Ive never heard of them. excuse my naivéty.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
What do you ride?

Not to go too far off topic, but I'm on my third bike and went with a bagger this time, a 2006 Ultra Classic. My wife and I go touring every couple of summers.
Here's a pic of the bike from our last trip

somecallmeJack wrote:
btw, can anyone tell me what the wrecking crew is? Im a bit late to the discussion & Ive never heard of them. excuse my naivéty.

Th3y are leet haxor!!!!11!!!!!

Redbeard wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
What do you ride?

Not to go too far off topic, but I'm on my third bike and went with a bagger this time, a 2006 Ultra Classic. My wife and I go touring every couple of summers.
Here's a pic of the bike from our last trip

Nice.

And the bike, too.

BTW, why can't you be non-conformist and take a picture of a V-twin from the other side?

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Fafnir wrote:I'm a bit of a germaphobe, so having to touch that metal with nothing covering it is a bit... unsettling.

Is metal infectious or something?

No, but the release agent that GW puts on them is.

Ah.
I was not aware of that.
Is it like an auger or something? That results in bacterial growth?

Tazok wrote:Isn't Deadshane the self-proclaimed founder of the Wrecking Crew?

Marc Parker, winner of 6 GTs, is the founding member.

G

I have mixed feelings in regards to fielding a painted army. On the one hand I always want to bring a fully painted army when I play in any tournament. I would rather bring a fully painted mid tier army rather than bring a partially painted top tier army. It is one of the best parts of the hobby when you recieve compliments regarding your models after putting a lot of time and effort into converting and painting them. To me this is part of what a tournament is all about. I think to paint Space Marines in general because the armies have a fairly low number model count and you can spend a lot of time embellishing each Marine whether it simply be a tactical Marine with a bolter or some fantastic looking HQ that is heavily converted. Another plus to fielding a fully painted army us that in general you will recieve higher soft scores. I don't like to paint vehicles (excluding dreadnaughts) so I usually commission these. I always let people know what I have painted in my armies because I do not want to take credit for someone else's work.

On the other hand I realize there are gamers who don't enjoy painting or don't have a lot of spare time on their hands. They might still want to play in a tournament though. Shops that enforce a strict painting policy for their tournaments are going to have less people show up to play as well. I think that this is where soft scores can make it a win/win situation for everyone.

G

I suppose if you automatically disqualified any player from prizes if they didn't have all models meeting the 3-color standard, that'd work, too.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Ah.
I was not aware of that.
Is it like an auger or something? That results in bacterial growth?

No, it's just toxic. And with my dry skin, I have a tendancy to have lots of cuts on my hands.

Not to mention, my hands just feel gross after touching them.

Fafnir wrote:

Orkeosaurus wrote:Ah.
I was not aware of that.
Is it like an auger or something? That results in bacterial growth?

No, it's just toxic. And with my dry skin, I have a tendancy to have lots of cuts on my hands.

Not to mention, my hands just feel gross after touching them.

Ah, cool.

I'm probably not going to worry too much then, it can't be much worse than all the other stuff I use in Warhammer.

Ummm....did you by any chance think that Deadshane MIGHT be just having a little nerd rage and sarcasm back at the local shop??? It's like a silent protest - he still wants to play - and the three dots will allow it - even though with painting scores in the mix - he can't win anything.

If you are going to a tourney that requires painting - and you do the minimum, just go to have fun and play the game - you can't expect to win. If you go in knowing it ahead of time - you can decide to play - or not. It's Shane's choice.

So much noise towards the WC - so sad. Can't beat them on the table - so bash them on the boards! Real cool!

I've got an idea....maybe try and get a game in with a member of the WC and see for yourself? Most folks I've played haven't seemed to have any issue with me - during or after the game....and I've been to a few GT's over the years. As it stands now - it seems like that a few folks are just going to call all WC members @ss-hats - whether they know them or not. If they win that much - they must cheat - no way they can actually be GOOD at the game or anything.

sigh.....

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

Orkeosaurus wrote:Ah.
I was not aware of that.
Is it like an auger or something? That results in bacterial growth?

No, it's just toxic. And with my dry skin, I have a tendancy to have lots of cuts on my hands.

Not to mention, my hands just feel gross after touching them.

Ah, cool.

I'm probably not going to worry too much then, it can't be much worse than all the other stuff I use in Warhammer.

Well, that's probably true on my end, but the thing is, the slimy feeling that the metal leaves on your hands just keeps itself in the front of my mind, and the idea of the release agent really just gets stuck in there. I just hate having any feeling on my hands other then perfectly clean, and the release agent makes me feel... dirty...

Anyway, that's why you should always wash your metals before priming them. The release agent not only is uggy and gross, but it also makes it so that paint has a much harder time adhering to the model. I've heard of some cases where the paint reacted with the release agent, and actually caused the model to dissolve. Although, that's probably a very rare case, washing metal models helps to make the paint job last longer.

I can't follow directions!!! Look at me! I just want attention!

Frazzled wrote:

I'm sure thats the idea.

And people wonder why I'm a huge fan of giving FLAGS the big middle finger nowadays when the cry of "support your FLAGS" is always whined.

olympia wrote:

Quote removed

Hey....fine.....all demon players can deploy on the board whenever they play a WC member. Does that make you happy.

But wouldn't it kinda suck if you did that....and lost......


I have no idea what the #@#@@ a L337 guild is......

Bunker wrote:

With an attitude like that, I doubt you'd have many friends to begin with.

*shrug*

Plenty actually. We started our own paying rent club after the last fiasco with a FLAG jerking our chain, and now beholden to no one.

I'm not a fan of FLAGS anymore.

Slipstream wrote:1) You spend all that money on miniatures and yet you
don't paint them.....why?
2) You spend all that money on miniatures and yet you
decide only to put 3 dots of paint on them...why?
3) Are you sure you're happy to spend all that money
and yet not get the full benefit from completed
miniatures?
4)Are you only interested in winning at all cost?Dare
I say it a powergamer?
5)If you are at all interested in the spirit of the
hobby you really should paint your figures.Trust me,
you'll get more respect.
6)Unpainted miniatures....why?

BEcause, and what many dont understand, not everyone is interested in the whole hobby.

Some people love the whole hobby.

Some love to paint, and do so. and probably dont play that often.

Some people love to model extensively.

And some people? Just like to play. Painting is a chore.

Its amazing that one is suppose to respect one part of the hobby, yet folks give others a hard time on others.

SHould I give you a hard time becuase you like to paint?

Al, you're an asshat! lol

Lova ya, Big guy!

GBF, I'm right there with ya. That's what I do, I paint. I paint about 4x more than I play (and I play almost every week). Of course msot of the time I'm going for "Best Painted" instead of the whole Shebang.

Yeah, lotsa Nerd-rage flying in here. Cool it guys, the guy doesn't wanna paint to play locally. No biggy, he just won't play locally looks like.

Funny, all this hate flying around and Shane is nowhere to be found. LOL

carmachu wrote:BEcause, and what many dont understand, not everyone is interested in the whole hobby.

Some people love the whole hobby.

Some love to paint, and do so. and probably dont play that often.

Some people love to model extensively.

And some people? Just like to play. Painting is a chore.

Its amazing that one is suppose to respect one part of the hobby, yet folks give others a hard time on others.

SHould I give you a hard time becuase you like to paint?

I dunno. Should I give you a hard time because you like to game?

The way I see it, fielding a fully-painted army is about showing a little respect to your opponent.

After all, if you like to game, they're respecting the gaming part that you like, so why can't you show a bit of painting respect to your opponent?

JohnHwangDD wrote:
I dunno. Should I give you a hard time because you like to game?

The way I see it, fielding a fully-painted army is about showing a little respect to your opponent.

After all, if you like to game, they're respecting the gaming part that you like, so why can't you show a bit of painting respect to your opponent?

Yet when will you and others respect the parts that people like to play?

I see a verbal vomiting about how we should, as a sign of respect paint to respect opponnets. What will you do to show respect to folks that want to play?

My respect is proper play, and not acting like an asshat at the table. Be courteous and such.

Further, I'll take it, as a sign of respect, you NEVER play with unpainted models? Ever? Even testing?

@carmachu: WTF are you on about? How am I disrespecting the parts that others like to play?

As for what I play, I bring a fully-painted (and based) army to *every* RTT or other event that I've played.

Indeed, I can field my choice of *several* fully-painted Tournament-sized armies if I so choose. When I gamed a lot, I ran a 4-army rotation when I played FLGS pickup games, purely for variety's sake.

But outside of Tournaments, if we agree on playing with unpainted minis, that's between us.

Because keep in mind, we're talking about painted minis within the context of a RTT with a painting requirement. Not "testing".

JohnHwangDD wrote:@carmachu: WTF are you on about? How am I disrespecting the parts that others like to play?

Every time arguements about the various parts of the hobby come up in this thread, anyone that just wants to play, you, and others say that folks should paint their armies as a sign of respect to their opponents and the hobby.

I'll say it again: what or when are YOU and others doing or saying to respect others aspect of the hobby, the folks that want to play? Paintingt is a chore to them, or their slow, or they dont like it.

What respect for them? And their choice?

As for what I play, I bring a fully-painted (and based) army to *every* RTT or other event that I've played.

Indeed, I can field my choice of *several* fully-painted Tournament-sized armies if I so choose. When I gamed a lot, I ran a 4-army rotation when I played FLGS pickup games, purely for variety's sake.

But outside of Tournaments, if we agree on playing with unpainted minis, that's between us.

Because keep in mind, we're talking about painted minis within the context of a RTT with a painting requirement. Not "testing".

SO what if its a tournment and in GW's "rules". As I stated before, GW breaks those rules constantly at various RT and GT events. My club mates have TONS of stories on that. Like one who spent a ton of time painting his army.....only to play at a GT event a kid who literally bought his army a couple hours earlier and glued together....an in one case, and empty base....

carmachu wrote:
My respect is proper play, and not acting like an asshat at the table. Be courteous and such.

In my opinion that's perfectly fine. The only problem is that, for the most part, people who don't paint their models are TFG. Not saying you are one, but for some reason it seems like the majority of TFG don't even prime their models and just play like asshats.

Personally? As long as the models are primed and assembled, I don't care. I'd prefer that the models be painted, but it is not required. Hell, I've fielded primed models before. I don't enjoy it but that's how the cookie crumbles sometimes.

Actually a lot of stuff in this thread completely depends on a player's experience and what he/she has had to deal with. Mileage varies here, I would say.

I don't bring unpainted models to the table. Period.
I buy the models for my army that I like the look of, not necessarily because they'll win me a game ( Looks override performance statistics in my eyes). I don't win a lot of games, but all of my opponents have commented on my army's paintjob and asked how I did certain things, and I do have fun in most of them.

I don't game at a LGS or GW (local GW isn't large enough to swing a cat without the feline getting concussion, and the local indy LGS is a tad out of the way at the moment), I play mostly at my club or one or two other "local" clubs (within 90 minutes travel).

I don't expect my opponents to have a fully painted army, or indeed, painted at all. I've played against quite a few grey armies and had good games. I feel that it is a "richer" experience if both armies are painted, but I learned about wargaming from my granddad and his napoleonic group (if it wasn't painted, it wasn't allowed into the clubhouse for play. You could show off your newest unpainted model, but no paint, no play.) and this was normal for several other clubs, too.

I don´t understand why people keep mixing hobby with gaming.

To respect your opponent at the table is to know the rules, is not to take advantage of a badly written rule. Is to know your codex and the especial rules of your army, not using RAW in turn 1 and then go RAI on the 3rd.

Respect is to follow the tournament rules, arriving on time to the table and score your opponent fairly in the sportmanship and painting scores (if present) but I don´t think respect has nothing to do with having my army painted or not, that`s what painting scores are for.

Giving a 0 to an unpainted army or not allowing them to play is fair as long as it`s in the tournament rules. But to all those that wrote in their posts that they would never play an unpainted army you are just a bunch of snobs and probably the local TFG to boot. You claim the higher ground but, at least to my eyes, you are a shame to a hobby that is supposed to be inclusive and not exclusive and per GW own word a "sociable hobby"

M.

PD: And yes, although I don´t play tournaments my armies are painted

Seriously though, how big is a RTT? 2000 points or so? You play pure Grey Knights, and the most models you can possibly have at that point allowance with pure is 71, and I know for a fact that you won't be running them naked, so it's undoubtly less then that. Grey Knights are easy as hell to paint, and you can finish 8+ in 2-4 hours if you really go at it. I know because I did it at that speed for my PAGK, and mine look beautiful.

Aldonis wrote:Ummm....did you by any chance think that Deadshane MIGHT be just having a little nerd rage and sarcasm back at the local shop??? It's like a silent protest - he still wants to play - and the three dots will allow it - even though with painting scores in the mix - he can't win anything.

If you are going to a tourney that requires painting - and you do the minimum, just go to have fun and play the game - you can't expect to win. If you go in knowing it ahead of time - you can decide to play - or not. It's Shane's choice.

So much noise towards the WC - so sad. Can't beat them on the table - so bash them on the boards! Real cool!

I've got an idea....maybe try and get a game in with a member of the WC and see for yourself? Most folks I've played haven't seemed to have any issue with me - during or after the game....and I've been to a few GT's over the years. As it stands now - it seems like that a few folks are just going to call all WC members @ss-hats - whether they know them or not. If they win that much - they must cheat - no way they can actually be GOOD at the game or anything.

sigh.....

The three color dots thing is an immature response to a reasonable request to paint your models for a tournament. Its not the way a club member should conduct themselves. And for the record, although shane is pretty up front with what he says i genuinely enjoy him (minus this post). He posts decent reviews of lists, he's helpful, and not poorly behaved (as I've seen).

I'll tell you what, assuming that people don't like WC just because you win a lot and we assume you cheat is a big leap. Or that we bash you at all, or that its because we can't beat you in person. A fact would be: wrecking crew is most often brought up as a topic by its own members, not by flaming posters. Second, most of us at this point don't even want to play you in person after the image you've gotten from your members, see below.

Here's why I dislike the wrecking crew.

1) The gareth thing was summed up well elsewhere. He may or may not have done something wrong, I wasn't there, but its definitely shady, this doesn't matter much to me at all. Yet you all think the reason people dislike you is this one event. Its not. I couldn't care less.

2) Your members conduct themselves like asshats. GBF being the worst of them. He's also the one that constantly says he's part of the WC, so he's your main FACE TIME MAN (congratulations on that one). For the most part I see WC members going around, posting like egotistical jerks, and just in general trolling like they're some sort of gamer jock. Maybe all of your members aren't like this, but the ones that post frequently are. Your CLUB is responsible for these members, it let them in, they are representing it, and they represent it poorly. If you don't like the reputation you've earned as a bunch of jerks, maybe you should consider having your members that are prevalent in the community stop acting like jerks.

The WC guys seem to have this "we're just a collection of nationwide tourney players, we don't know each other that well, we're not responsible for each others actions" mentality. News flash. If you're a club, you ARE responsible for each others actions. If you choose to not be, then you aren't a club, you're just a group of decent players that chooses to put a tag next to their name in order to RAW the community into combining your scores/wins at events. If you want to call yourselves "wrecking crew" and a "club" you need to start acting like one, and reining in your members who post and act like children, or else get used to your reputation as a bunch of jerks. I realize most of you aren't, but the ones that aren't sure aren't too out there in the community for me to see, aren't helping people, and aren't stopping the trolling members.

So maybe 90% of you are great guys to game with. But your club has the stigma of the nasty 10% that are active in the online community. If you aren't going to deal with them yourself, get used to the reputation.

....as if the online community here is any better than the WC....! Yea right.

All deadshane does is post some aggravation at a local game store changing policy after several years of gaming and not JUST HIM (as might be acceptable) but the the entire of WC comes under fire for some stupid reason.

Its been a veritable Sh1tstorm of insults and self righteous fools on here seeing a chance to spew some forum diarrea at someone who's a little angry at the local store.

5 pages of how people who paint their armies are superior to people that might not care about painting and just love to play the game of 40k. Oh, that and a bunch of WC hate.

Yea, Dakkadakka as a whole is MUCH better behaved than Deadshane. 1 post from him = 5 pages of hate from dakka, not just at him but the club he's part of....

very adult...bunch of hypocrites.

Beerfart wrote:....as if the online community here is any better than the WC....! Yea right.

All deadshane does is post some aggravation at a local game store changing policy after several years of gaming and not JUST HIM (as might be acceptable) but the the entire of WC comes under fire for some stupid reason.

Its been a veritable Sh1tstorm of insults and self righteous fools on here seeing a chance to spew some forum diarrea at someone who's a little angry at the local store.

5 pages of how people who paint their armies are superior to people that might not care about painting and just love to play the game of 40k. Oh, that and a bunch of WC hate.

Yea, Dakkadakka as a whole is MUCH better behaved than Deadshane. 1 post from him = 5 pages of hate from dakka, not just at him but the club he's part of....

very adult...bunch of hypocrites.

QFT.

Beerfart wrote:....as if the online community here is any better than the WC....! Yea right.

All deadshane does is post some aggravation at a local game store changing policy after several years of gaming and not JUST HIM (as might be acceptable) but the the entire of WC comes under fire for some stupid reason.

Its been a veritable Sh1tstorm of insults and self righteous fools on here seeing a chance to spew some forum diarrea at someone who's a little angry at the local store.

5 pages of how people who paint their armies are superior to people that might not care about painting and just love to play the game of 40k. Oh, that and a bunch of WC hate.

Yea, Dakkadakka as a whole is MUCH better behaved than Deadshane. 1 post from him = 5 pages of hate from dakka, not just at him but the club he's part of....

very adult...bunch of hypocrites.

1) My post wasn't referring to deadshane, if you read it, it was referring to aldonis's comments on how the WC gets hate for no reason bla bla bla.
2) Do you want to hold your club to the same standards as your random insult tossing internet gaming nerds that are attacking the WC? I'd say you may want to aim a bit higher.

I can't understand how you can let your members act like you do and expect any less of a backlash from the community. Cry me a river. It would take a few swift boots from your "leadership" to fix your club and end all of the WC hate by just cleaning up your behavior and then letting your bad image fade away over the course of a couple weeks with the pace the internet community moves. But you don't. You just whine about how no ones nice to you.

Dood, I'm not even in the WC, but what I DO see here is persecution for that club much like the Salem witch trials....and its pretty much as fair.

As of late I havent seen the WC on these boards do anything but defend themselves against constant hate from people that proclaim "I've never played them but...." then someone comes on mentioning how he/they have hung out with the WC and "what a great bunch of guys they are."

They're not plugging the club here. GBF posts like mad but doesnt mention the club often that IVE seen except when under fire.

GBF and Deadshane had an arguement in a thread not long ago and someone cracked how it was discention in the ranks and is prolly par for the course with "those guys".

The only time I've seen Deadshane even mention that he was IN the club is the time he apologised for the whole of them and the confusion that was caused during the 'Ard Boyz....whatever your impression of that, it was mighty big of him to accept responsibility for "his boyz" especially if he wasnt involved in the game in question.

All the hate and self righteous jerks on here sometimes make me sick as a lurker....and it takes some time for me to speak up, but look at this thread. Go back and read Deadshanes first and ONLY post in this thread...is it THAT bad? Do you know the total story or just what you extrapolate from his post? Did you notice that there might be some SHADY reasons for changing the local RTT policy where he's from?

You see one questionable post here on dakka, and the end result is 5 pages of hate directed at him and his club (the club not being involved or even mentioned at all) It's obvious that some people here are just throwing salt on someones wounds because they think its fun.

This whole thread is a metaphor for online behavior here at dakka at times. See an opening and attack without any fear of retribution.

I hope some of you talking smack do so at a tournement that has WC guys in it....I hear one of them is on the 'ultimate fighting' circuit and several of them are police. It would be funny to see some self important dakkanerd get curb stomped after calling some guy a cheater when that guy has biceps the size of most peoples thighs. Dakka already hates the club as a whole, but I bet the most vocal haterz here go silent when they get to the GT locale.

Go hide in your cheezy poof boxes you internet tough-guys.

Dakkas a whiners club. We know.

carmachu wrote:I'll say it again: what or when are YOU and others doing or saying to respect others aspect of the hobby, the folks that want to play?

SO what if its a tournment and in GW's "rules".

What do WE do? WE play against their unpainted crap when painting is not required, and we do it with a smile. So when painting is finally required, then we reasonably expect you to comply with that requirement.

If it's a tournament for painted armies, then you follow the rules, or stay home. Very simple. After all, you'd get in a big huff if WE decided that it would be OK if WE field an extra 50% points each game... Or if WE decided to field Superheavies and mix armies to make points... Or if WE decided that our army penalties and restrictions didn't apply... Or if WE decided to take unfair liberties with modeling... Or if WE decided to use loaded dice and dice manipulation...

After all, it's not like anybody is saying you can't play with unpainted minis. We're simply saying that, when a painting requirement is imposed for an event, then players should follow the rule for that event.

____

targetawg wrote:

Aldonis wrote:So much noise towards the WC - so sad. Can't beat them on the table - so bash them on the boards! Real cool!

I'll tell you what, assuming that people don't like WC just because you win a lot and we assume you cheat is a big leap.

For many of us, it isn't any leap at all.

Beerfart wrote:Do you know the total story or just what you extrapolate from his post? Did you notice that there might be some SHADY reasons for changing the local RTT policy where he's from?

You see one questionable post here on dakka, and the end result is 5 pages of hate directed at him and his club (the club not being involved or even mentioned at all) It's obvious that some people here are just throwing salt on someones wounds because they think its fun.

This whole thread is a metaphor for online behavior here at dakka at times. See an opening and attack without any fear of retribution.

I hope some of you talking smack do so at a tournement that has WC guys in it....I hear one of them is on the 'ultimate fighting' circuit and several of them are police. It would be funny to see some self important dakkanerd get curb stomped after calling some guy a cheater when that guy has biceps the size of most peoples thighs. Dakka already hates the club as a whole, but I bet the most vocal haterz here go silent when they get to the GT locale.

Go hide in your cheezy poof boxes you internet tough-guys.

1) As I said before, if you read my post, it responded to aldonis, not deadshane, who I even commented that I enjoy on DD, minus this post.

2) You're the one acting like an internet tough guy, threatening physical violence against people for comments made. If any of the WC don't like my opinion, they can feel free to start physical violence if thats how they feel they need to solve their issues. God knows GBF already threatened me and told me how large he is in one of my posts, it doesn't seem too far out of the realm of possibility, congratulations, you've started yourself a new negative rumor.

3) Are you doing them any service in defending them? I didn't even insult them. I merely stated the fact that they let a few bad eggs ruin their whole clubs image, and that if they want to fix it, they should just correct those members behavior, plain and simple. You, on the other hand, are now insinuating that their club is a bunch of fighters, cops, and thugs who will commit hate crimes (curb stomping being a reference to american history x, where the main character crushes an african americans head on the curb due to his beliefs as a skin head).

You may want to rethink your strategy, at least in this scenario, I know you aren't part of their club, and I won't let your poor behavior reflect upon them.

Edit: For the record, i actually googled curb stomp after this, turns out it originally comes from a nazi practice during the holocaust, however I had only seen it during the movie, american history x. Congratulations on using it all the same.

I should drink and post more often. This thread is classic Dakka at its finest.

For the record, I'm a little miffed at my FLGS for changing their RTT policy after about 4 years of successful running.

I've had a particular habit of building armies, I would:

Build army
Begin play/practice with army while painting for coming tournement season (including tournement practice within RTT's)
Complete army...continue to play.
GET BORED WITH ARMY
continue to play Army in GT's and Major tournements BUT probably not play it otherwise...because....
Build new army
Begin play/practice with army while painting for coming tournement season (including tournement practice within RTT's)
rinse
repeat

Its worked this way for many years and my FLGS and I have been very happy together. I'm sorry if many of you dont approve of the way I perpetuate MY hobby....but this is how I've always done it with my current FLGS.

Now out of the blue my FLGS has changed policy to only include fully painted, while my initial outburst was anger, (amusing anger thanx to this thread and all the hate! ) I've pretty much accepted it and am instead protesting as a consumer should...by simply talking about it on the store forum, that I disagree with the change which makes me unhappy as a loyal customer of many years at my exclusion from the RTT's despite my DEEP involvement with the hobby. I'm accepting that the RTT's will simply have to do without me and I'm considering running my own tournement series at the store....which has been met with some intrest by the store owner.

So you see...actually I DO paint, slowly, and basically as a necessary evil for tournement play. I happen to enjoy the game MORE than painting and personally find that aspect of the 40k hobby more engaging than painting, but my models get painted eventually. My problem is that I get tired of armies quickly and normally before they're finished. My Hobby store has always accomodated my hobby habits, until now, and that frustrated me.

We now bring you back to your scheduled WC hate-for-no-other-reason-than-to-be-a-douche.

I don't get why this is a big deal. We have the 3 color minimum at my store. So I got my armies painted up enough to play. Not painted well, but there is 3 colors and basing.

And I actually enjoy painting a bit. If I hadn't been 'forced' to paint my armies, how would I've known that?

....oh yea, and I'm a Cop. However, curb-stomping isnt taught at the Academy soooo...., my prefered distractionary maneuver is an open handed slap to the face (nothing stuns a grown man more..."you just slapped me dude????")....followed up by grasping the throat with my left hand while the right finds its way to my opponents left wrist. Then the "TIME HONOURED" left knee to the 'boys'. I normally dont use this tecnique against accusations of "cheater" however its a fabulous way to discourage stretching 6" distances and delay of game.

And a great way to get an assault charge, even for a cop. Then again, with someone who's avatar is the great Gary Busey himself, I'd expect no less.

Um, "Gary Busey"

Shhhh! I don't know how to spell his name, all I know is that he's nuts.

Fafnir wrote:And a great way to get an assault charge, even for a cop. Then again, with someone who's avatar is the great Gary Busey himself, I'd expect no less.

Oh ho! Thats why you must learn creative report writing...saves you every time. It's all in how you word it.

Deadshane1 wrote:

Fafnir wrote:And a great way to get an assault charge, even for a cop. Then again, with someone who's avatar is the great Gary Busey himself, I'd expect no less.

Oh ho! Thats why you must learn creative report writing...saves you every time. It's all in how you word it.

That comment, combined with your avatar's expression, makes me feel ill. I really hope it's sarcasm.

I am, however, indifferent to the painted/nonpainted issue. If the store's attendance and sales are declining, being exclusive doesn't sound like a smart idea. People who set their standards at where ever they happen to be are pretty much the cream of bigots.

5 pages of rage over one guy's angry post about a change in store policy.

Everyone should be allowed to play in a tournament as long as they pay the entry fee. If the army is not painted, well guess there is no paint score for that guy and pray pray pray everyone else ties/loses their games to remotely hope for an overall.

As others have said, I have seen in GTs and Gamesday RTTs people with unpainted armies and are just there to play. Most people dont have time to paint or the patience (I am still working on my marine army since 2004). Just let the people play and either give them a 0 for painting or just plain make them not eligible for an overall.

Sincerely, Hod

Deadshane1 wrote:

Fafnir wrote:And a great way to get an assault charge, even for a cop. Then again, with someone who's avatar is the great Gary Busey himself, I'd expect no less.

Oh ho! Thats why you must learn creative report writing...saves you every time. It's all in how you word it.

"Yes, Your Honour. If you watch the movie backwards, you'll actually see us helping Mr. King up off the ground, into his car and watch him reverse away."

malfred wrote:Well, I wasn't going to use anything as fine as an air brush. I was going to buy
cans of Black, Red and something else and try to make some fugly Blud Marines.

What, you mean everyone doesn't do that? Woops...

This thread is being locked while posts are being reviewed as potential threats.

I will state as general policy threats against other board members, either directly, or indirectly in the discussion are not tolerated on Dakka.