Now that I've started 40k again I went back into my shop afew times, I noticed a major difference from even a year ago is that instead of helping me and talking about armies with me they talk to me about armies then suggest things to buy and even stop mid-sentence to tell me how great it would be to buy 2 boxes of AoBR and the most expensive box in the range. The employees seem to jump on anyone that walks in and try to sell them as much as possible and it has greatly annoyed me and a lot of my friends that go.

So my question is this, are Games Workshop employees liable to get in trouble for not selling a certain amount or do you earn a bonus for selling the most? I'm just sick of this agressive selling!

Hmm... our lot in Southampton will bring new releases "enthusiastically" to your attention, but I wouldn't call it aggressive.

I had quite a long chat with one store member the other day about Imperial Guard which I'm not collecting and they aren't promoting.

That is not aggressive selling. It is enthusasism. Totally different thing.

No bonus for sales. Well, not for the grunts. If the shop hits targets there may be a bonus for the manager (very common occurence in the UK High Street).

Now, they are meant to upsell, even if it's just tagging a brush onto your sale. Again, hardly a rarity in todays high street....

The GW Employees at my local store are a bit overexcited rather than trying to get you to buy a product. I think its just a natural by product of loving the thing you are selling and the lines getting a bit blurred because of it. (That being said I don't think a time has gone by when I haven't bought something everytime I have been there, they are a hell of a lot nicer than the FLGS which isn't all that friendly in the fist place....)

I wouldn't say aggressive exactly, but high-pressure selling it can be. It varies every time I go into their shops to be fair, but sometimes they won't leave alone. When I was younger I actually had a member of staff ask how much money I had on me. I'm older now and being an adult they probably wouldn't try and mess with me in quite such an overt manner.

From everything I have heard, I'm really happy I don't have a GW store within 120 miles of me...

I find the "aggressiveness" of the salesman is usually directly tied to their level of experiance. New people tend to try much harder than the more experianced ones.

I find it extremely annoying when I drop by the GW store and whatever they have new that week is the greatest unit ever made.

I never find them aggressive.

If I go in and buy a box of something, they ask me if I need glue -- that's just good sales practice.

I don't know if it makes any difference that I'm 46 so I don't look like a junior player who could get rushed into making extra purchases.

Techboss wrote:I find the "aggressiveness" of the salesman is usually directly tied to their level of experiance. New people tend to try much harder than the more experianced ones.

I find it extremely annoying when I drop by the GW store and whatever they have new that week is the greatest unit ever made.

To me, it's fine when they talk about the aesthetics of the model, but I agree that
they shouldn't really talk about subjective judgments such as BEST unit unless they're
willing to do the numbers for you (mathhammer, if you will).

It's also less shady when they're tying purchases to things that you're already
interested in.

Sadly, I'm the guy who ends up like this:

Me: "I'm here to get some glue."
GW: "Dude you can field 3 venerable Furiosos for like 360 points!"
Me:" "What?"
GW: "You can reroll damage..."
Me: "Nah, don't care."
GW: "Dude they can get d3 extra attacks if you upgrade to Death Company!"
Me: "I'll take 2."

Then I leave without the glue.

groz wrote:Sadly, I'm the guy who ends up like this:

Me: "I'm here to get some glue."
GW: "Dude you can field 3 venerable Furiosos for like 360 points!"
Me:" "What?"
GW: "You can reroll damage..."
Me: "Nah, don't care."
GW: "Dude they can get d3 extra attacks if you upgrade to Death Company!"
Me: "I'll take 2."

Then I leave without the glue.

You're the one who ruins it for all of us!

but GW shareholders send him Christmas Cards.

I have one guy at the Local Shop (and it is only one of about 5 - about 2 more than the shop needs, now I think on it) who I quite like talking too, but I do dread it when he starts a sentence with:

"That's interesting..." or " You'll be needing..."

I generally find they are alright with me, but then i wont go anywhere close to a gamesworkshop unless i actually have things i want to get, so i tend to go in, say hello tell them what i want, pay the money walk out. Since normally when i go in to i am buying a fair bit they dont seem to push anything else on me, just happy with the sale they are getting.

And i have had plenty of chats at times when the shop is pretty much empty and its just like talking to another person into the hobby, never found them pushy

That might just be my local gamesworkshop in grimsby, and no amount of staff being friendly can make up for the smell of BO in such a small store...

Techboss wrote:I find the "aggressiveness" of the salesman is usually directly tied to their level of experiance. New people tend to try much harder than the more experianced ones.

That was pretty close to the mark when I worked retail years ago... The new employees were really aggressive, while the vets waited for people to show interest and ask questions. Of course, some of us developed the thousand-yard stare that can be the mark of real veterans of retail...

(For the record, I worked in a pet store.)

Last time I went in a GW store (years ago) I was just surprised that they marked me as a 'player' as soon as I walked in. They asked me what armies I played as opposed to trying to interest me in a demo game, etc. I guess it must have been the way I entered... I walked right to the back to look for a few things instead of hanging around at the front.

(This was long enough ago that I was looking for Citadel Journal. The sales guy thought it was a fan-publication.)

I've run into that a couple of times at GW stores. I find the FLGS' are a little less prone to it simply because they tend to sell a greater variety of stuff.

I actually had one of the GW guys use the Furioso line on me. My reply was simple.

"Dude, you can get a couple grand for your third kidney."

The guy looked at me like I had three heads and said "I only have two."

I nodded and said, "Yes and I only play Orks."

Then we had a nice talk about qualifying questions for about twenty minutes. He was a nice, if overenthusiastic kid. I actually heard him talking to his next customer on my way out. The aggressive sales pitch was gone and he was asking some nice questions of the family who came in.

The Big Mek wrote:Now that I've started 40k again I went back into my shop afew times, I noticed a major difference from even a year ago is that instead of helping me and talking about armies with me they talk to me about armies then suggest things to buy and even stop mid-sentence to tell me how great it would be to buy 2 boxes of AoBR and the most expensive box in the range. The employees seem to jump on anyone that walks in and try to sell them as much as possible and it has greatly annoyed me and a lot of my friends that go.

I also find them aggressive or enthusiastic or whatever one wants to call it. Bottom line is it's very annoying and it's the reason I stay away from GW stores whenever possible.

Aggressive? No, not in my experience. They've suggested I purchase bits and pieces before, but mostly only after I ask them a question about improving my force. If I'm just after a box or three of Cadians they'll sometimes try to talk me into getting a HW box too. I don't mind too much, since if I say no, they don't push it any further.

Once they start ringing up my stuff, I get the whole "Do you have paints/glue/WD" bit, and sometimes it'll remind me I'm running low on paints/glue/toilet paper, and occasionally they'll get the additional sale and I'll leave with paints or glue as well as whatever else I bought.

I guess it boils down to your local store and also where you draw the lines between helpful, enthusiastic and aggressive sales.

I was in my local GW talking to the manager when I started making fun of those ridiculous skull pits on the new realm of gaming board. The manager made a comment about how much he loved having his own little Auschwitz, then spent 20 minutes trying to convince me to buy the board. I wasn't sure whether I was more shocked that the manager of a retail store just made a holocaust joke, or that he was now giving me the hard sales-pitch for a product that I'd just openly mocked.

I really do love though that "They can be covered up very easily by terrain" is somehow a selling point of the board...

However, I totally understand why they're so pushy. The number of times I've popped in there to buy paint and ended up walking out with an assault on black reach boxed set, or a set of assault terminators... makes me shudder just to think about it. They all know we're hesitant to spend money, but capitulate easily to a little bit of encouragement. I mean....my army reeeeally needs it right, and its not really thaaat much money...

...:(...

Im afraid I can verify this 'aggressive sales tactics' story. Every time I go into my *airquote* 'local' GW, this one fellow attempts to sell me the AOBR box set even though Ive explained numerous times that I neither need or want it. (he then proceeds to tell me why I absolutely NEED to buy two of x unit/vehicle to make my life much better). I almost feel like Im being patronised by him.

admittedly it is only that one guy, the other is rather personable.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:I was in my local GW talking to the manager when I started making fun of those ridiculous skull pits on the new realm of gaming board. The manager made a comment about how much he loved having his own little Auschwitz, then spent 20 minutes trying to convince me to buy the board. I wasn't sure whether I was more shocked that the manager of a retail store just made a holocaust joke, or that he was now giving me the hard sales-pitch for a product that I'd just openly mocked.

Wow. That does seem a bit tasteless. If I want to keep piles'o'skulls in at least the realm of gamer-friendly conversation topics I think I'd stick to references to Terminator 2 or something.

In games workshop there is a strick code which must be heared to.
It is called the 10 commandments and if employees don't follow these commandments they can be disiplined and even fired.
I have found that GW is concentrating more on sales numbers than the quality of the staff they have and quality of the advice.

"Oh, I'm fine, thanks. If I need you, I'll let you know..."

Techboss wrote:I find the "aggressiveness" of the salesman is usually directly tied to their level of experiance. New people tend to try much harder than the more experianced ones.

I find it extremely annoying when I drop by the GW store and whatever they have new that week is the greatest unit ever made.

As an ex-Staffer, I always found the greatest unit ever made to be the unit that a prospective customer was looking for. I'd try to back that up witha bit of information on how to use that unit in the army etc.. It's product knowledge and customer rapport really.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:I was in my local GW talking to the manager when I started making fun of those ridiculous skull pits on the new realm of gaming board. The manager made a comment about how much he loved having his own little Auschwitz, then spent 20 minutes trying to convince me to buy the board.

Wait a minute. What?

I hope you're exaggerating, because that would just be awkward.

malfred wrote:

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:I was in my local GW talking to the manager when I started making fun of those ridiculous skull pits on the new realm of gaming board. The manager made a comment about how much he loved having his own little Auschwitz, then spent 20 minutes trying to convince me to buy the board.

Wait a minute. What?

I hope you're exaggerating, because that would just be awkward.

Nazi references in my 40K?! *Gasp* What's next? Soviet atrocities? Not like the entirety of the Imperium is a blatant parody based heavily on those two 20th century powers. I am shocked my good man.

Though from a less stupidly sarcastic viewpoint, that really is surprising to come from an employee as they're generally taught to be overly PC, and Holocaust jokes are far from, "I think that'd be okay to say." Unless of course he knew you and everyone else around, and knew that no one would be offended, and think it was amusing.

Salad_Fingers wrote:

That might just be my local gamesworkshop in grimsby, and no amount of staff being friendly can make up for the smell of BO in such a small store...

I have a female colleague who I do lunch with occasionally. She refuses to come into GW on the grounds that it smells like a locker room.

I work near a branch of GW and find all of the staff friendly tbh. If I don't want anything and just want to browse then I just say so. They have given me some handy painting tips and other advice and once when they asked if I needed any glue I actually did. To me it's not really a problem but then again no-ones made any holocaust jokes to me. If that guy had said that it was like Auschwitz rather than he 'loved' having his own little Auschwitz then it wouldn't had seemed so out of order but then again you have to be very careful what you say so he shouldn't really have said anything of the sort.

There's a game a few of my friends have started called 'The Games Workshop Game' and the idea is to go to the back of the shop, touch the wall and walk back out again without being advised to be bought something, bearing in mind my GW is literally around 6 foot wide, which will a desk in makes it very thin and takes no time at all to touch the wall.
No one has ever won this game unless there were a girl, who never seem to be even looked at.
My staff are nice people, very nice infact and are all very enthusiastic over their hobby, as I am myself, that's not the problem here.

My friend told one of them he wanted to start Chaos, the employee answered immediately with 'Why don't you buy the Assault on Black Reach set and put the Ork axes onto the space marines. I went on to say how this would be tricky for a new player and would not really be worth it to which he came out with the answer; "You can buy one each and he can give you his orks and you can give him your space marines and then you both have rules and templates with 6 dice!". This made me sick in my throat a bit. Then the whole axe idea he gave would be lost and his answer to a hobby question was more sales. He didnt even suggest ANY chaos sets at all, just because there were quite alot of AoBR sets.

Neconilis wrote:

malfred wrote:

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:I was in my local GW talking to the manager when I started making fun of those ridiculous skull pits on the new realm of gaming board. The manager made a comment about how much he loved having his own little Auschwitz, then spent 20 minutes trying to convince me to buy the board.

Wait a minute. What?

I hope you're exaggerating, because that would just be awkward.

Nazi references in my 40K?! *Gasp* What's next? Soviet atrocities? Not like the entirety of the Imperium is a blatant parody based heavily on those two 20th century powers. I am shocked my good man.

Though from a less stupidly sarcastic viewpoint, that really is surprising to come from an employee as they're generally taught to be overly PC, and Holocaust jokes are far from, "I think that'd be okay to say." Unless of course he knew you and everyone else around, and knew that no one would be offended, and think it was amusing.

I'm "surprised" as well! The Local GW near my "northern homestead" never makes cracks about the holocaust! They're too busy cashing in on stereotypes by making fun of Islam, people from the Middle East (sans Israel), and cracking lines about "molesting Jesus" as an infant.

two_heads_talking wrote:

Techboss wrote:I find the "aggressiveness" of the salesman is usually directly tied to their level of experiance. New people tend to try much harder than the more experianced ones.

I find it extremely annoying when I drop by the GW store and whatever they have new that week is the greatest unit ever made.

As an ex-Staffer, I always found the greatest unit ever made to be the unit that a prospective customer was looking for. I'd try to back that up witha bit of information on how to use that unit in the army etc.. It's product knowledge and customer rapport really.

That makes you the exception, not the rule - which is unfortunate. GW needs more of the exception.

It's pretty hit or miss for me. When the Chicago Battle Bunker first opened, my friends and me went there fairly often as there was no FLGS near us. The staff was cool with us, never bothered us and were pretty cool all around. The current staff there isn't pushy, but they're not as cool as the old staff. Of course that could be because we're not regulars there anymore.

As to the smaller stores, it leans more toward pushy than not. I avoid them at all costs, but since there's no FLGS near me, if I want to just run out and pick up a kit, one of the GW stores is the only choice. My last trip into a GW store was rather nice, as the one employee working was not pushy at all, and we actually had a conversation about our motorcycles as I made my purchases.

malfred wrote:

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:I was in my local GW talking to the manager when I started making fun of those ridiculous skull pits on the new realm of gaming board. The manager made a comment about how much he loved having his own little Auschwitz, then spent 20 minutes trying to convince me to buy the board.

Wait a minute. What?

I hope you're exaggerating, because that would just be awkward.

nnnnnnnnnope. pretty much verbatim. He made the same comment to pretty much all the rest of my gaming buddies when they've been in the store too, so looks like it's a joke that's worked its way into his repertoire.

I mean, I'm not going to lie and say I didn't laugh. Mostly just because it was so ridiculously inappropriate, I couldn't help but NOT laugh. It wasn't until afterward that I really started to think of just how easily that joke could go wrong and like REALLY offend someone. The real funny thing was just the whole package though: the akward joke, followed by trying to sell me on something I clearly had no interest in purchasing.

Infact, about 2 hours after creating this post I went into Town to go to college and went to a burger stall where a Games Workshop employee (he's one of the around 5 who ramdomly appeared a bit over a year ago) and he is probably the only guy in the shop he doesn't go for the jugular. In fairness they're starting to recognise me a bit more and it's dying down but one guy STILL insists on selling me everything, he'd have the same conversation with me for around 3 days in a row (i've start to go there when I have alot of time to kill between lessons).

It's not even age that stops them patronising you as though I'm 18 I look alot older yet they talk to me the same way as they do the 8 year olds, offering me starter packs and such.

My new tactic is to 'debate' with them on the stupid things they give me rather than being dismissive and saying 'Yeah, it's ok but I don't need it'. I'll tell them how it's useless compared to such and such, though that'll give them an oppertunity to sell me something!

I've just learnt to accept now that the manager of the local GW will tow the party line whatever, it gets alittle lame for me. I wonder though, how much leeway do staff and managers really get? Is voicing one's dislike of a model a sackable offense? A mark against you for your permanent record? I've learnt that if I just shrug when he starts overblown defence, he'll leave off and just process my purchase through the till and bid me a nice day.

I work in complaint investigation, I ensure the multinational, multibillion pound corporation I work for is acting within the legislation and guidelines set out for us by the external trading legislators, I sit in on meetings with our customers (some of the largest companies you can think of), so, I understand that the zany shouty wavyhands "I'm just maaaad me, MAAAD!!!" style is one that kids will love, it's the wrong tactic to be using on the older customer, I want a bit of flattery, camaraderie from a guy who is about my age, some nostalgia.
Instead I seem to be presented with two options, either have indepth interaction that involves the 'GW Saturday Morning Madhouse Challenge!!1!' or a very minimal contact? Can there not be a happy medium that involves politely chatting and so on.


But... maybe that's my fault, maybe that is the way a GW shop is going to have to operate, I do try to understand I'm at the older end of the playerbase, the staff do have to cater to the majority. I just wonder if such an aggressive policy will prove the downfall of the shops, kids have phases, my cousin collected warhammer for all of 3 months, spent a fortune of his parents money and promptly ceased being interested, older hobbyists have already decided to stick with the hobby, have usually got disposable income of their own and will commit to playing for several years.

Holy ****, a salesperson trying to make a sale. Call the better business bureau, bub...because this just got real.

Seriously, I'm no fan of it either, but it's hardly worth getting worked up over. The staff are PAID to sell you stuff you don't need. Just like a car dealer or a stripper.

As for the Holocaust joke...if you laughed, you empowered it. I don't care, but I would have lied and said my great-grandparents were lost at Dachau (more believable that way). Just to see the look on his face.

They don't bother me at all at my store, but they still try and upsell. It's their job.

That is OK.

Well to clear a few things up:


No GW staff don't get bonuses for selling stuff-
Yes GW staff members can get fired for not selling enough- thats part of working in retail- you don't hit targets you don't stick around...

Now having said that does that make some staffers "aggressive" as some people put it- yeah- I have met many in my time.

But seriously- why paint us all with the same brush? Some staff members prefer the idea of the person getting whats best for them- and work well towards that goal- regardless of what may appear to be the "product of the week"

This kind of thread leaves me with real mixed feelings- negative because I know there are such feelings and stories out there- but positive because I know thats not what I do or what is done at the store I work at!

If anyone who works in GW can help me understand your sales logic in this example, please do.
I wanted 9 Basalisk tanks quickly and it was at the time you could buy 3 in a box for £50. I know I could buy them off Fleabay for £46 each inc P&P, so £138 total. As I needed them quickly, I was happy to pay the extra £12, and buy the 3 boxes from my local GW store. Unfortunatly, they didn't have any, and the Manager said they'd sold out, and were not expecting anymore stock, as they were discontinuing the box sets. But he had 9 single Basalisks in the store for £20 each and I could have them.
"For £150 you'll sell me 9 Basalisks?", "No, for 9 that will be £180". "But I can buy 9 off Ebay for £138. I have £150 in my pocket, its yours for 9 Basalisks, just like you were selling the other week, do you want £150 in the till, or do I walk out of hee and order them from Ebay and wait a few days for them to arrive?".
I walked out the shop, after buying nothing, and bought them £42 cheaper from Ebay. I just couldn't understand that. Do you want any business GW? Seeing as GW's sells to retailers at 40% and would make profit on that, lets assume another 20%, the manager could have had £120 profit for GW, instead of the £30 from selling to the independant, who then sold to me making £60 profit for himself.
And another thing, you can't just walk in a GW store for a mooch anymore. As soon as your through the door, your pounced on. The best one is my Girlfriend going in the store to buy me something for Christmas, and the pratt staff member assuming she's a dumb blonde and knows nothing about the hobby, attempting to sell her a load of crap she doesn't need "Well if you're buying this, then you definately need this this and this to go with it or its useless etc etc etc". Seeing as my dumb blonde knows more about the hobby than most regulars, told the stafff member he was talking ******, gave examples of why he was talking *****, and then walked out the store, and ordered the stuff online instead. Apparently the guys jaw went through the floor upon realising this apparent girl knew more about the game than he did !
There is being helpful, and then there is being a pain in the ****. I went in over Christmas, I wanted to paint up some Space Marine Characters. I wasn't interested in what it was, I just wanted to mooch through the blisters and pick a few models I liked the look of. But would the guy leave me alone to look? No. After explaining what I wanted, why I wanted, for no specific army, just to paint a nice Character model, all the guy could do was shove the new £30 Techmarine and Cannon under my nose. "Buy this, its an awesome model to paint".

TheSecretSquig wrote:If anyone who works in GW can help me understand your sales logic in this example, please do.
I wanted 9 Basalisk tanks quickly and it was at the time you could buy 3 in a box for £50. I know I could buy them off Fleabay for £46 each inc P&P, so £138 total. As I needed them quickly, I was happy to pay the extra £12, and buy the 3 boxes from my local GW store. Unfortunatly, they didn't have any, and the Manager said they'd sold out, and were not expecting anymore stock, as they were discontinuing the box sets. But he had 9 single Basalisks in the store for £20 each and I could have them.
"For £150 you'll sell me 9 Basalisks?", "No, for 9 that will be £180". "But I can buy 9 off Ebay for £138. I have £150 in my pocket, its yours for 9 Basalisks, just like you were selling the other week, do you want £150 in the till, or do I walk out of hee and order them from Ebay and wait a few days for them to arrive?".
I walked out the shop, after buying nothing, and bought them £42 cheaper from Ebay. I just couldn't understand that. Do you want any business GW? Seeing as GW's sells to retailers at 40% and would make profit on that, lets assume another 20%, the manager could have had £120 profit for GW, instead of the £30 from selling to the independant, who then sold to me making £60 profit for himself.
And another thing, you can't just walk in a GW store for a mooch anymore. As soon as your through the door, your pounced on. The best one is my Girlfriend going in the store to buy me something for Christmas, and the pratt staff member assuming she's a dumb blonde and knows nothing about the hobby, attempting to sell her a load of crap she doesn't need "Well if you're buying this, then you definately need this this and this to go with it or its useless etc etc etc". Seeing as my dumb blonde knows more about the hobby than most regulars, told the stafff member he was talking ******, gave examples of why he was talking *****, and then walked out the store, and ordered the stuff online instead. Apparently the guys jaw went through the floor upon realising this apparent girl knew more about the game than he did !
There is being helpful, and then there is being a pain in the ****. I went in over Christmas, I wanted to paint up some Space Marine Characters. I wasn't interested in what it was, I just wanted to mooch through the blisters and pick a few models I liked the look of. But would the guy leave me alone to look? No. After explaining what I wanted, why I wanted, for no specific army, just to paint a nice Character model, all the guy could do was shove the new £30 Techmarine and Cannon under my nose. "Buy this, its an awesome model to paint".

Well first with the bassies.... Sure they'd be 25 each.... and the apoc box set was 3 for 50.... now I understand your logic however the shop isn't able to operate that way, your basically asking the guy to write off £75 worth of stock, which could have got him in alot of trouble- especially given the much lower profit margins than you seem to think GW makes... . Now having said that- I know some staff have sorted out similar such thing for people before in the past- it depends on the staff member, what your trying to achieve- If you went in and basically used the "ebay" reasoning- the staff member probably wouldn't take too kindly upon it- or even if he is abit human like me- probably though "fair play to you mate- go for it"


As for the being "pounced on" What did they do? Say hi? Or something more aggressive?
The guys in stores are supposed to be there to help- hence the reccomending things that may be needed-- glue, paints, codex, rulebooks etc.... or maybe cool things- a landraider for a dedicated transport for some termies or similar- is offering those things worse than someone getting you something that you can't use for whatever reason?

Bignutter, I wish you worked in my shop!
They're nice guys, I went in today and didn't get any recommendations to buy anything, it was good but he still seemed like he just wanted to get over and get the sell, there was an awkwardness there.
In the middle of this 2 guys come into the store and played the game where they need to get to the back without being greeted/talked to.
After making them lose he instantly dropped his guard, and there was only me him and an older guy in there and he explained how he played the game in the Disney Shop and then called them nobheads.
I loved it, he had emotion in his voice, he wasn't fixated on getting you over. He doesn't need to swear infront of people, i'm not saying that, i'm saying being more human and less of a salesman. I'll listen to a fellow hobbyists advice over a salesmens advice any day.

I want to work in my local GW at some point and when I go I'll go through the protocol (greetings, asking how they are and if theyre looking for something and the classic line when they look or pick up something "Aaahhh, so you're a ___ player") but i'm gonna be a hobbyist talking to a hobbyist, not a salesmen.

I understand a lot of the aims and such but its such a dramatic change from just a year ago, it makes the experience a lot less fun. Everyone should make an oath that if they ever work in GW they'll not turn into a salesman! Just sell stuff as a hobbyist!

Bignutter wrote:Well first with the bassies.... Sure they'd be 25 each.... and the apoc box set was 3 for 50.... now I understand your logic however the shop isn't able to operate that way, your basically asking the guy to write off £75 worth of stock, which could have got him in alot of trouble- especially given the much lower profit margins than you seem to think GW makes... . Now having said that- I know some staff have sorted out similar such thing for people before in the past- it depends on the staff member, what your trying to achieve- If you went in and basically used the "ebay" reasoning- the staff member probably wouldn't take too kindly upon it- or even if he is abit human like me- probably though "fair play to you mate- go for it"


As for the being "pounced on" What did they do? Say hi? Or something more aggressive?
The guys in stores are supposed to be there to help- hence the reccomending things that may be needed-- glue, paints, codex, rulebooks etc.... or maybe cool things- a landraider for a dedicated transport for some termies or similar- is offering those things worse than someone getting you something that you can't use for whatever reason?

So instead he wrote off 200 pounds of stock by not selling them at all, and pissing off a customer in the process. The cost of each basilisk is the EXACT same to produce for GW, whether you buy 30 at a time or 1 at a time. It pains me to see people support the GW stores, when you can buy stuff online for 20-40% off (not including ebay), or at your FLGS.

TheSecretSquig wrote:If anyone who works in GW can help me understand your sales logic in this example, please do.
I wanted 9 Basalisk tanks quickly and it was at the time you could buy 3 in a box for £50. I know I could buy them off Fleabay for £46 each inc P&P, so £138 total. As I needed them quickly, I was happy to pay the extra £12, and buy the 3 boxes from my local GW store. Unfortunatly, they didn't have any, and the Manager said they'd sold out, and were not expecting anymore stock, as they were discontinuing the box sets. But he had 9 single Basalisks in the store for £20 each and I could have them.
"For £150 you'll sell me 9 Basalisks?", "No, for 9 that will be £180". "But I can buy 9 off Ebay for £138. I have £150 in my pocket, its yours for 9 Basalisks, just like you were selling the other week, do you want £150 in the till, or do I walk out of hee and order them from Ebay and wait a few days for them to arrive?"..

Wouldn't selling them at a different price have messed with his bookkeeping?

malfred wrote:

TheSecretSquig wrote:If anyone who works in GW can help me understand your sales logic in this example, please do.
I wanted 9 Basalisk tanks quickly and it was at the time you could buy 3 in a box for £50. I know I could buy them off Fleabay for £46 each inc P&P, so £138 total. As I needed them quickly, I was happy to pay the extra £12, and buy the 3 boxes from my local GW store. Unfortunatly, they didn't have any, and the Manager said they'd sold out, and were not expecting anymore stock, as they were discontinuing the box sets. But he had 9 single Basalisks in the store for £20 each and I could have them.
"For £150 you'll sell me 9 Basalisks?", "No, for 9 that will be £180". "But I can buy 9 off Ebay for £138. I have £150 in my pocket, its yours for 9 Basalisks, just like you were selling the other week, do you want £150 in the till, or do I walk out of hee and order them from Ebay and wait a few days for them to arrive?"..

Wouldn't selling them at a different price have messed with his bookkeeping?

Not to mention it's extremely doubtful that he even has the authority to sell anything for a price different than what is listed in the computer.

@The big mek- thanks man- there are alot of us hobbyist types about, sadly we just never really get limelight as bad things seem to attract more attention.
And I do understand the whole "salesman" approach- its something I've seen people fall into- I can see the reasoning- sheer exhaustion- but i guess thats a reason not really an excuse.
Having said that- seeing people doing the right thing helps give everyone a real buzz and gets everyone working in the same direction.


Just as a little experiment- try talking to your local GW staff members as hobbyists yourself- - have a proper hobby convo like you would with someone at a tourney or similar- you'll be surprised how different your experience will be!

brado wrote:
So instead he wrote off 200 pounds of stock by not selling them at all, and pissing off a customer in the process. The cost of each basilisk is the EXACT same to produce for GW, whether you buy 30 at a time or 1 at a time. It pains me to see people support the GW stores, when you can buy stuff online for 20-40% off (not including ebay), or at your FLGS.

Huh?
Why does it pain you to see people supporting their local GW store... especially when in some cases it is their FLGS-
As for the cost being the same- for GW as a whole- sure- but each GW store has to be profitable and be accountable for what they sell or write off-

A good salesperson will quickly recognise the type of customer and adjust his style to their age, personality and mood.

Some of them aren't as good.

There are worse things in the world than GW sales staff.

The new GW recruiting policy (especially with Managers ) is that 'You can always teach someone the Hobby, but teaching them people skills is a lot harder'.
But it's meant to be centered round the Hobby! Just 'cause theyre not a people person doesn't mean they'll be the worst salesman, infact, it'd probably be the opposite!
It should be centered around people who're good hobbyists and are enthusiastic towards the hobby, not serving people, but keep the current serving policy but leant more towards customer service rather than incenting customers to buy, as service usually gets more sales anyway.

Sorry but maybe its me, but I think its a no brainer. Take £150 from my pocket and make the same profit margin you made last week on the smae item, or, make nothing. As a manager of any type of store, I know what I would choose, knowing, that in a month I probably wouldn't shift 9 Basalisks.

I remember 10 or so years ago, the feeling was different in the shops. I sat down with the manager of one shop, and explained that I wanted to do a complete company of Legion of the Damned, including all their support vehicles. We did a deal. I bought everything from him, he gave me every 3rd vehicle free, free pot paints, free brushes and glue. That one day he sold more Space Marine stuff than he had in the last 2 weeks.

GW are so inflexiable with their pricing. What insentive is there for me to shop at GW? I get nothing for my loyalty, other than overpriced stuff. GW need to bring back something like the Skulz promotion like they did 10 years ago.

I describe being 'pounced' on, meaning as soon as walk through the door, the first question is, "What army do you collect" followed by "Their awesome, have you got one of these" and straight into a Sales pitch. Or when I'm looking for a random Character to paint, they always seem to pick up the most expensive one.

TheSecretSquig wrote:Sorry but maybe its me, but I think its a no brainer. Take £150 from my pocket and make the same profit margin you made last week on the smae item, or, make nothing. As a manager of any type of store, I know what I would choose, knowing, that in a month I probably wouldn't shift 9 Basalisks.

I remember 10 or so years ago, the feeling was different in the shops. I sat down with the manager of one shop, and explained that I wanted to do a complete company of Legion of the Damned, including all their support vehicles. We did a deal. I bought everything from him, he gave me every 3rd vehicle free, free pot paints, free brushes and glue. That one day he sold more Space Marine stuff than he had in the last 2 weeks.

GW are so inflexiable with their pricing. What insentive is there for me to shop at GW? I get nothing for my loyalty, other than overpriced stuff. GW need to bring back something like the Skulz promotion like they did 10 years ago.

I describe being 'pounced' on, meaning as soon as walk through the door, the first question is, "What army do you collect" followed by "Their awesome, have you got one of these" and straight into a Sales pitch. Or when I'm looking for a random Character to paint, they always seem to pick up the most expensive one.

I do have to ask where you draw the line then?

I want 4 bottles of coke at tesco... am I allowed to get 4 lots of the flavoured stuff for the same price as the pre-packed 4 bottles of classic coke? GWs pricing is just as inflexible as anyone elses-
As for getting nothing for your loyalty- most of the cost factored into what you see as overpriced stuff is to pay for the stores and staff that you seem to dislike- They are literally there to help- what other store can you go into and get the same level of help that you'd expect from a GW store. Yes the staff are also there to sell things- some take that to heart- but thats not all they do.

Just out of interest how do you respond when the staff member asks if you've "got one of these" for an item from your army? Often this can be just a question to spark a conversation- heck I've used it myself to a guard player- asked if he had any russ'es- he said no- turned out he was doing drop guard and from there we worked out where he was going next (In that case it was to our vets night he didn't know about where he has become a regular player)

The tesco coke this has 2 responses;
1) Stores do alot of 'buy 1 get 1 free' or some form on multipack deals
2)Gw is a Hobby shop, as such it should have the extra care and detail, like model train shops do. I'm sure the manager could strike such deals as he won't be firing himself.
If it means they'll make much more of a profit then it's worth it, it's just good business. Even Tescos has a reward scheme as do other major firms such as mobile phone companies, starbucks etc but because GW know you HAVE to come back, they don't reward you or bargain (they used to do deals like that). We are ripped off for the sake of the shareholder, its went from a hobby business to PLC and ran as any other business. Shame on GW, but it'll never change!

buy online

cheaper and 100% less redshirt

TheSecretSquig wrote:Sorry but maybe its me, but I think its a no brainer. Take £150 from my pocket and make the same profit margin you made last week on the smae item, or, make nothing. As a manager of any type of store, I know what I would choose, knowing, that in a month I probably wouldn't shift 9 Basalisks.

I remember 10 or so years ago, the feeling was different in the shops. I sat down with the manager of one shop, and explained that I wanted to do a complete company of Legion of the Damned, including all their support vehicles. We did a deal. I bought everything from him, he gave me every 3rd vehicle free, free pot paints, free brushes and glue. That one day he sold more Space Marine stuff than he had in the last 2 weeks.

GW are so inflexiable with their pricing. What insentive is there for me to shop at GW? I get nothing for my loyalty, other than overpriced stuff. GW need to bring back something like the Skulz promotion like they did 10 years ago.

I describe being 'pounced' on, meaning as soon as walk through the door, the first question is, "What army do you collect" followed by "Their awesome, have you got one of these" and straight into a Sales pitch. Or when I'm looking for a random Character to paint, they always seem to pick up the most expensive one.

To be fair I recently was in GW Newcastle and wanted the washes set, they had none in so the manager offered to sell me them individually for the cost of the set. Of course thats a lot less cash but its the same principal.

As to being pounced on, it only seems to happen with noob staff in Newcastle, I actually quite like winding them up, sending them off to check the stockroom for genestealer hybrids or chaos dwarf blunderbusses etc.

With paints its really easy;
You sell them the paints indivdually at the price of the box, you order an extra box, open it, and put the washes in the display, so it's as if you just came in and bought that box he ordered,just earlier.
GW don't lose money, you don't spend extra, and someone else will come in and buy it seperately when he wants to so there won't be excess stock.

Oh how I'd love to own a Hobby Store!

and now for some good news:

ventured into the local GW shop yesterday with a mate who's pansy space elves box contained a scout who's gun had snapped, the manager took a look inside, clearly identified the break had occurred due to a moulding issue and replaced without question and let said eldar player keep the original box o scouts.

and that bears out something I found years ago when as a youth i worked for an indy GW supplier, they don't quibble over returns. Good customer relations, a big tick in their favour.

Colour me impressed.

I find their selling to be extremely aggressive, most of the guys at my local store know i'm a die hard ork player, but when they see me looking at tyranid's it's almost as if they can't resist and launch a huge pitch. I used to think it was excitement until your at a store long enough and everyone gets the same flame template sales blitz, no cover saves against that!

Daggermaw wrote:I used to think it was excitement until your at a store long enough and everyone gets the same flame template sales blitz, no cover saves against that!

Haha, that's genuinely a great line.
and it's true!
The people they see in there a lot they treat the same as 14 year olds who come in once and get the Lord of the Rings boxset from their mum unless you're someone who's in there every single day. THAT guy is treated like a friend to them, a fellow hobbyist purely because he's there every day, yet we regulars are not!

I had a sour experience when I started LOTR just as it was starting to be manufactured by GW I bought a blister with a cave troll arm missing and they told me I'd have to order and pay P&P for a new arm, which cost around just £2 for the entire model. It has now changed to a different shop and completely different staff but it still left a mark.

M'yeah. Think I'll stick to my FLGS. Most of the staff there don't know a Space Marine from a Battlemech. Keeps 'em humble.

The staff at my local GW know me well and when a new guy strikes up the regular sales pitch they just tell him not to bother.

They know all the regulars and give us space and strike up great discussions when it's quiet.

The do have targets to meet. Primarily based around selling the starter sets. But they are such great deals its not like they are ripping anyone off.

The Big Mek wrote:... He didnt even suggest ANY chaos sets at all, just because there were quite alot of AoBR sets.

That's because there area extra targets for starter box sets - the AoBR, BoSP and MoM ones. Because they're products that are designed to hook n00bs and hooking n00bs is what GW's sales department believes is the only important thing in the world* there are store targets for selling them. If the store meets its targets it gets a pat on the back. If it misses them it gets a kick up the arse. All the sales rep wants is any easy life, and so as flogging AoBR sets gives him and easier life, and flogging Chaos units doesn't, guess what he will try and do?

The problem is that Head Office doesn't have a first clue about how to properly motivate staff to grow and develop their customers for the long term benefit of the company. Not a frikkin' clue!

Fortunately for GW there are a few sensible retail staff about the place who have a modicum of common sense, and genuinely want to do well by the customer, reasoning that a happy customer is likely to be a return customer, as well as having a little pride and self respect. Sadly they tend to get it kicked out of them in time by GW's idiotic and desperate middle management...

* slight exaggeration for comic effect.

The Big Mek wrote:The new GW recruiting policy (especially with Managers ) is that 'You can always teach someone the Hobby, but teaching them people skills is a lot harder'.
But it's meant to be centered round the Hobby! Just 'cause theyre not a people person doesn't mean they'll be the worst salesman, infact, it'd probably be the opposite!
It should be centered around people who're good hobbyists and are enthusiastic towards the hobby, not serving people, but keep the current serving policy but leant more towards customer service rather than incenting customers to buy, as service usually gets more sales anyway.

I don't want to meet frothers when I go in a GW.

Today lunchtime I nipped over to the Oxford Street branch to pick up a couple of pots of paint for this weekend. I'm painting some Pig Iron Kolony figures.

The staff and a couple of guys are sitting around the table painting and chatting. The manager looks up and asks if he can help. I say I just want to pick up some paint. He says "Righto, sir, when you've chosen just give me a call."

I go to choose my paint.

When I'v chosen my paint, the manager comes over, rings it up and bags it and I go away happy.

That to me is the way it should be. The manager knows I am a vet and I know what I want and don't need to be pressurised for extra sales.

My take -- hobbyists as a group probably trend below the baseline in terms of social skills. And I'd guess most GW salespeople are more likely to be hobbyists than purely exceptional salespeople (who could presumably find more lucrative commission work elsewhere).

So IMO it's not that surprising that your experience with GW sales staff can be very different depending on who you talk to. Some have the skills to correctly gauge how to speak to a given customer, and some don't.

You know, if you go into a store and talk to the merchant, do you really think he's not gonna try to sell you stuff? I mean, if you need friends, make some friends, but the GW staff have a job to do first and that's sell to paying customers.

Lots of people I know think that they can walk into a game store and just pal around. The thing is, game stores ARE great places for this sort of thing and the staff is very lenient in most stores I frequent. But it is a courtesy extended to gamers, nothing more, and it does not imply that just because the staff is friendly to you that they can't wait to help you design your army or talk to you for 50 minutes.

Am I right?

I am a regular at my GW, there being no other FLGS around and many of the other modeling companies I had never heard of until i found this website. Back on topic, I have never seen them be aggressive when it come to selling stuff. Their tactic is to politely suggest things that you might need. aka always saying when ringing up do you need primer or glue. They always know their product and are super knowledgeable when it comes to anything about the hobby.

As in most things, you're going to have different experiences because the staff from one store to the next is 'different'. It's not really a surprise that 'younger' or 'newer' sales-staff are often the most 'energized' salesfolk - especially if their manager is watching over their shoulder.

For about the past year I've noticed lots of differences between the two GW stores I frequent. In both places, if the 'boss' is around, the rest of the staff is obviously more 'on edge'. Maybe some folks can't see it, but I sure can. I've done a decade in retail myself, as both a grunt and in management, and I believe I can sense when staff seems 'uptight'.

So, I usually go into these stores hoping that the manager isn't around. Sounds weird, I know, but that's just been my experience over the past year.

Like many in this thread, I always get 'pounced upon' the minute I enter the door. Personally, I kinda like it - they acknowledge my presence and immediately offer themselves up for assistance - which to me is infinitely better than going into a store and being completely ignored. Neither store's employees have ever tried to 'pressure' me into buying anything - then again, if they 'suggest' that I look at the new 40K boxed-set, and they only suggest it a single time and then don't dwell on it - I don't consider that 'pressure'. So far, every employee I've dealt with at both stores thankfully understands what 'not interested' means, and they move on.

The only problem I've had with any of the local GW staff is that at one store, there are obvious 'cliques' amongst veteran gamers/store staff. I know a lot of you vets might think this is 'natural' and such, and personally I don't have any real opinion on it, really.

But the first several times I went into the store, I'd seen gamers eating/drinking at the tables (both painting and gaming). The wife and I then go down there one night to do some purchasing/painting, and we take sodas, and one of the staff nearly berates us for bringing drinks into the store, finishing with, "Well, we won't throw you out this time, but be more mindful of that in the future". I explained that I've seen plenty of other people eating/drinking in the store as recently as that very same weekend, and he steadfastly insisted it was 'the rule'... which is strange, since he himself was present on other nights when I've seen others eating/drinking in the store.

Don't get me wrong - I can understand not allowing it, and that is perfectly fine - I just felt extremely embarassed when other customers were listening to the 'lecture' this guy gave me, and I had (wrongly) assumed that since other customers were allowed to do it, I was too. I just feel that there should have been a better way to explain, "Hey, we only let certain folks who we trust do it", or whatever, instead of coming down on us like we were breaking the law.

Needless to say - I don't spend any money in that particular GW store anymore, and likely never will. I'll go there to browse (since it's very close to home), but I buy my stuff from the other store (which is very close to where I work) now - and ironically enough, the second store actually sells food/drink itself.


In reference to the guy upset about the 3 Basilisks... once you bring up the word 'eBay', you're turning a corner there. eBay is a very unpredictable entity in the retail world. I mean, you told the guy you can buy a Basilisk on eBay for cheaper than the GW store... but you could just as easily have said that you could buy a Basilisk on eBay for $10. Stores can't and don't really compete with eBay and for many obvious reasons. Like someone else mentioned - the salesperson hopefully politely told you, "Then go for it, get it from eBay if you can get it that cheap - I sure would!" I can only guess how many times some GW staff have heard those words - "Holy Crap! I can get this on eBay for xx% off!" There's not a whole lot they can do about that.

When it comes to price-matching against themselves (i.e. 1 single Basilsk compared to the box of 3), not every single employee might have the power to do that. When I first started in retail, at the grunt level I wasn't allowed to modify a price for ANY reason - I had to get a manager. Maybe that's the way it is with GW?

If the guy you dealt with WAS the manager, maybe he's been instructed not to do such things? There's always some else higher up the food-chain who might see the price-reduction for 9 basilisks and wonder, "WTF?!?", and the guy might be worried about attracting heat? He has every right to hold you to the price-tag. And if you threaten to go someplace else - that's your right, as a customer. Most likely, though, it wasn't anything personal. The guy may very well have WANTED to sell them to you. Of course he'd like to beef up his EOD sales report with an extra 150 from you - but things like that also set dangerous prescedents: what if you kept coming back for more? If he does it for you once, he'd be expected to do it again. And what if other people found out? They'd expect the same deal. And then that deal would extend beyond basilisks and into other products... on and on. It could really go downhill from there.

Then there's the attitude issue. How did you propose the idea? Were you crappy about it? Were you polite about it? Cold? Impersonal? Did you hold the eBay/going-somewhere-else over his head from the start? Sales-staff are people too, and will react like people often do. If you came across aggressive in any way, that might have closed off any willingness he had to work with you.

I am not saying that GW folks never broker 'deals', just that they may have valid reasons to not always do so. When it comes down to it, all they are really expected to do is stick to the price-tag on their product. Dropping that price for some reason (when not on sale or otherwise a special deal) is more of a favor to you - not an expectation.

Just my 2 coppers, tho. I definitely understand why you'd be upset about it. From my own perspective, if I were in that salesman's shoes, I would have tried to come up with any reason I could to sell you those bassies. But if I absolutely couldn't, I'd try to let you know that as professionally and as kindly as I could.


Sorry for the ramble,
-Mort

Hmm, when I went in to buy a Warhammer Army and chose Brettonians the let me use the price thing for the spearheads (which you basically get the codex free) but I got to mix and match the units with what I wanted. So it was pretty nice. Generally I find that if you are buying a large number of things once in a while they will give you a deal on it. Maybe not a big one but a free metal blister or the like is still nice.

However the friendly local gaming store isn't really all that friendly, he is constantly calling customers retards and the like if they do or ask something that only a vet would know. (Like a guy asked whether or not any other store in London sold FoW and the guy berated him for a few minutes...) Stuff like that makes me not want to buy there, never had that problem at the GW.

Bignutter wrote:Well to clear a few things up:
No GW staff don't get bonuses for selling stuff-
Yes GW staff members can get fired for not selling enough- thats part of working in retail- you don't hit targets you don't stick around...

They used to get bonuses for making monthly goals. Then again GW's philosophy was "if one store can make $5K day, every store WILL make $5K a day". There was a time where if a store was doing poorly, eveyone but a lowly red shirt would be sacked, the red shirt would become the new manager by default, and the cycle would start over again.

The Big Mek wrote:
I'm sure the manager could strike such deals as he won't be firing himself.

When the inventory is done and what was sold doesn't match what should have been sold, people get fired.

When I worked at GW the rule was within 3 seconds of walking through the door you were to be greeted, approached, and steered towards a sale.

That's basically still how it is now. The sacking of store staff doesn't really happen anymore and bonuses/incentives for sales for Red Shirts is gone. No longer do they receive a bitz order at basically 98% off.....which, although crappy, is also good.
Red Shirts are suppose to be more focused on the "hobby journey" and, although they should make sales pitches, should not hound for sale. The Managers worry about sales and the red shirts ensure that the hobby community is generally happy and making progress. New customers are of course still high priority but it's no longer "LOok aT MY CRAZY InTro GAME!!! ZARGH!! LOUD NOISES!! BUY BUY BUY!!!"

That was one of the best things, bits by weight and 60% off everything else.....

Two good experiences I had at the store attached to the Battle Bunker in MD recently-

1. Walked in 6 months ago after being out of the hobby for 5 years. Had already decided to purchase my models online from the guy I used to order from. After they realized I wasn't buying, suggested a painting/modelling/tactics class to get back up to speed on things. Didn't have my models yet to start the class, so they gave me 8 or so (of the army I had chosen) for free so I'd have something to work with!

2. Walked in two days ago and told the manager I was thinking of learning fantasy. Looked at the new lizardmen 'dex, looked at the rulebook. He went in back and got a paperback of the rulebook and gave it to me for free, and told me to come back when I'd read through it and we'd talk more.

Now, granted, sometimes I feel pressured to buy, but being someone who generally succumbs to that pressure and impulse-buys, they've gone pretty easy on me, imho!

Two good experiences I had at the store attached to the Battle Bunker in MD recently

You know, that's exactly the experience I had visiting the GW HQ at Glen Bernie, MD. I've been out of the game for a few years (5 as well) and when I went back the first time in December, I was pleasantly surprised. The staff was helpful but not pushy. I asked them to teach me the basics of the new edition, and they even set me up with a knowledgeable opponent who was happy to patiently teach me the intricacies. I pulled out my old Ork stuff and we had a good time playing.

Last week, I visited again with the plan to bring along my Skullhammer conversion and work on it in store. I sat at a table, and was greeted by the district manager. He gave me some helpful tips, a small sales pitch, and then introduced me to the veteran hobbyists. I plan to make my visits a weekly occurrence. We'll see about buying from them, though.

Maybe my experience was rare. Maybe the store I visit is extraordinary or something, but I've officially changed my mind about GW stores from the first year they opened in 2004.

Sometimes the experiences are good, sometimes they're a pain. As I said, I've been in there where the 16 year old kid at the counter interrupts my phone conversations to try to get me to preorder those "all the new gak for way too much money" boxed sets, and I've wanted to punch him in the face.

There's also times where I've been in the store and spent an hour just talking about tacticas and army lists, and that sweet ass dragon model on forgeworld, and never been pressured to buy anything. I just find that in general, they can be annoyingly pushy when it comes to getting you to buy.

Just to tear into the 9 basilisks guy though, I fully understand where you're coming from with the guy being silly for not selling them to you. However, having worked for about 5 years in retail I can tell you with all certainty that there is NOTHING that gets a salesman's back up like the "well I can get this somewhere else for cheaper" routine. It's like "oh ya? well why don't you just fething go there then...donkey-cave" I get it all the time from the cheap pricks who come in trying to get a dollar off of this or that because some store like fething walmart carries it for fifty cents cheaper. "Uh huh, and you think that our tiny little store can compete with wal mart.....why?"
As soon as a customer breaks into that routine you just shut down. That customer is no longer a customer, they are a liability and one that you want out of your store asap. You go into survival mode, and just do the motions until they're out of your life. Yes, in this case it lost him a sale. But in 99% of cases, that customer was never going to make a valuable sale anyways, and isn't worth their weight in gold for the trouble they're going to cause you. Those kind of customers are the bane of retail.

not to say that that was you. But from the sounds of things you may have come off that way (intending to or not), and if you did then there's no way you were going to get that sale unless there is some sort of store policy in place, or his manager was looking over his shoulder. Every retail worker has a line, that once you cross it no amount of "sales incentives" are going to make them want to cut a deal with you to make a sale, and for I'd say a majority of those workers it's the "I can get this for XXX less at YYY" routine. No matter how much your deal may have made sense in hindsight, at the time all he wanted to do was to make you go away

....god damn I hate working in retail. At least at my new job I get to drink at work. Not sure how else I'd make it through the day

GW's revised retail strategy in the USA is to put shops in high footfall locations and use them primarily as a showcase and recruiting centre. Sales are secondary. More and more sales are happening through the internet anyway.

In my experience, GW has ALWAYS gone with the hard sell. Thats their business model and the stores have quotas to meet....

Cant say its the best way, but thats their choice.

Solorg wrote:You know, if you go into a store and talk to the merchant, do you really think he's not gonna try to sell you stuff?

Am I right?

Unfortunately, no your not.

There's selling product, and then there is selling product. A good store owner/salesmen adjust his style and pitch Selling to a first timer is NOT the same as selling to a guy who's been in the hobby longer then the salesmen, who has 6-10 fully painted armies that total 25K in points.

The problem is GW, over all, has only one mode. Thats the hard sell. *shrug* One needs to learn, as a salesmen, there's a time to press and a time to back off and let the pot come to a slow boil. Some people like to look and browse and if they need help, they'll ask.

Its something GW needs to learn. No one begrudges sales. But one has o learn to qualify a customer, their needs.

Back one my local FLAGS was owned by someone else, the owner knew me by sight, knew enough to wave off his employees to bother me, as I knew what I wanted, and hell, knew what was on the shelves and such better then the people he employed. Sometimes you have to back off to make the sale.

But GW, over all, wont learn this lesson.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I had a short term job as a shop floor salesperson in the famous London department store Selfridges.

To their credit, although I was only on a month’s contract over Christmas (this was for the toy department) I was given a full week’s training covering basic consumer law, how to operate the till, how to fill in credit card slips (this was before the introduction of EPOS) and most importantly, selling technique.

I was taught that the worst thing you can do is go and ask the customer if you can help them.

I was taught to be visibly available, without approaching a customer, until I observed that they were ‘hovering’. This was the signal that they probably were interested in something and at that point an approach could be made along the lines of “Is there something in particular you are looking for?”

More advanced selling started once they said they needed a present for a boy aged 12 or whatever, as this gave you the opportunity to guide them towards a suitable category of toys.

We were also trained to help the customer in whatever way possible. For example, if they needed a particular locomotive (I was dealing mainly with toy trains and racing car sets,) even if I knew it wasn’t in stock, I had to pretend to search for it quickly, offer possible alternatives or to order it, and if they were not interested then direct the customer to Hamleys.

This meant that although you didn’t make a sale, you showed the customer that Selfridges was a high service establishment that put their interests top of the list. And this was more likely to produce long-term repeat business.

In the salespersons defense, the rigorus training program, combined with the fact that the sales person is jazzed about working for GW produces the overzelous effect.
most of the issues I've ever had here in the states came about from the new guy salesmen. Younger guys seem to be selling technique, and a few skullings later, they learn, relearn, and retemper thier sales technique.

I would't get so wrapped around the salesman, they are probibly a product of thier environment. As we all know, the overt big industrial feel of GW permeates every facet of thier product.
Like it or not, it isn't a personal affront to you, they are trying to sell a product, and thier technique "By The Book" is pretty overt in the way in which they do it.

It is the persons real life ply of sales trade that makes them a good salesperson. "Sell the product, use this and this technique" doesn't work as well as learning the technique and making it work for you.

A few of you posters seem to think that it is the other way around, it is not a personal interaction, its a job. These guys don't need to be your enemies, you just need to get what you want and move on out. They try to sell you something, you don't like so and so, "Think" ect. Personally doesn't have anything to do with it.

I have had my share of negative experiances from the red shirts, but I have also had numerous good ones. The guys that KNOW are the ones that last. The redshirts on the low end are compeating for thier job, some on a trial basis, some because there is always anotherone waiting in the wings, and still others are only there because they bought into the B.S. and think that working for GW is one of those "Be ALL End All" dream jobs, and then when reality sets in they are then reeled into the real work environemnt that the rest of us are.
The red shirts are human. they arn't your personal enemy. some are good, some outright suck. Take it in stride, get your gear, and if you want, hang at your local GW store, or don't. Bear in mind though, that 95% of the GW stores in the states are stratigicly placed to get the maximum sale. They are not your local gaming shop. they are a Mcdonalds, Wendys, or Hardees store that sells miniature figures... SPECIFIC figures by a corperate entity.

I support going into a GW store, every now and then, just to say you went. other then that, I go to my local store, shoot the stuff with my own crowd, and play, paint, or whatever with our own.
GW has done us a favor by making a store chain that is EASY. not nessecarily your LOCAL GAMING STORE.

One of the big issues that we have in the states is the fact that our local communities are loosing themselves by throwing in with corperate entity type companies, and the Ma and Pa stores are going under.
Don't blame the employee for the whole. The redshirt isn't just there to be a !@#$ head, they are there to work in a corperate store.
Deal with them and move on out.

I hate my GW store the people are really really aggressive and honestly kinda jerks.

They are either

A. Telling me about their super cheesy armies like the beastman army with 30 units of 5 wolves and morghor the chaos spawn maker

or

B.

Me. Hi do you have any badbad black?
GW. Nope, but hey look we have the new wash paint set.
Me. But I just want bedab black I don't use the other washes its a waste of money for me.
GW. I think your wrong, instead why dont you get the MEGA paint set.
Me. When will you get bedab black in?
GW. I don't know the computer automates our purchases so we have no idea when it will be coming in
Me. Yeah no thanks i'm just gonna go to the complete strategist instead.

1. Visit car dealership
2. Return to thread with new perspective

Grot 6 wrote:In the salespersons defense, the rigorus training program, combined with the fact that the sales person is jazzed about working for GW produces the overzelous effect.

Except that defense completely fails, since GW's technique is pretty much overall, the hard sell or pressure type. i rarely have seen, or heard from some who have worked, allowing much else.

Take the bassie example....assuming the costs of the models brining them in are roughly eqivilant, store costs that is, salesmen I know would take that sale. Your customer wants X, X being the 3 pack deal, you say you cant get it or wont....what do you expect them to really do? Pay $30 more for it seperate? There's no sane customer thats going to do that, on ANY type product, not just gaming items. ESPECIALLY not with gaming items that can be gotten via ebay and otehr places.

*shrug* The one FLAGS ages ago, I use to frequent under a certain manager knew that, he could throw the customer a bone. Kill the tax, something.

groz wrote:1. Visit car dealership
2. Return to thread with new perspective

Dont you thinlk, that by comparing it to a car dealership to make GW stores look better, thats saying something? And not much good?

I'm guessing that Groz is a cash buyer so the car salesmen were falling all over themselves to be nice to him.

carmachu wrote:Dont you thinlk, that by comparing it to a car dealership to make GW stores look better, thats saying something? And not much go od?

Lol, true.

Kilkrazy wrote:I'm guessing that Groz is a cash buyer so the car salesmen were falling all over themselves to be nice to him.

My next cash purchase is Dakka. I sent a burlap sack marked with a big "$" to Yak, and I'm awaiting the response. Once I own this place, I'm going to devote it to a permanent discussion of why bikes assault 12". I may rename it to bikesassault12.com.

groz wrote:1. Visit car dealership
2. Return to thread with new perspective

Difference there is HUGE. First, the salesman is probably working on PURE commission. When I worked at a dealership you got paid minimum wage for the week if you didn't sell any vehicles. As soon as you sold any, the amount you were paid during non-selling periods was taken out of your check as repayment for the check you got.

Also, people don't buy cars as much as hobby games. Over the course of a year or two a guy might buy 2 full armies. Some people go DECADES without buying cars at a dealership. I'm pretty sure my mother has NEVER bought a car from a dealer, or I wasn't born yet when she did.

No, car salesmen are pushy because they don't make an hourly rate. They get paid to sell you something, and the more expensive that something is, the more money they make. An "average" salesperson at my dealership made about $35K per year. The best 2 made more than $150K by averaging about a car per day. You buy a cheap car of a lot, the salesman isn't making much, sometimes as little as $150. Buy that $22K used car and they probably made a grand or more. Highest commission I saw was for $3500 from one vehicle. Lowest I saw was $75.

There is no real comparison here. Nothing really compares to selling cars. It is a very stressful job, unless you have a lot of previous contacts and those contacts liked you enough to tell their friends.

The other point about selling or buying cars is that the two same people hardly ever buy/sell a car twice. So each partner in the deal can be as much of a bastard as they like, without prejudicing future sales.

To make a very general point, genuine salespeople really are in it for the money -- that is what totally motivates them.

That doesn't make them bad people. Plenty of salespeople (I know several guys in my company) are friendly and fun when they aren't trying to sell you something.

When they are on the job, though, everything is about making the sale at the best possible terms.

I have the fortune of living near Toronto ON, where i can reach a store that sells 40K, in any direction, in about 15min at most.

I have chosen, most times, to go to the GW stores. I'd say 50% of the time i get someone who knows what they are doing. The last two times the guy i got, and this is just my opinion, but i think he may have been brain dead.

First time i dealt with him, because he was available to talk to, i asked for the GW airbrush. He went to the back, got it, told me it was the last one so he couldnt sell it to me, then proceeded to tell me why it wasnt that great and how his $500 airbrush that he used was the best. Mid conversation (diatribe) i glanced over at another employee who shrugged his shoulders at me while i politely listened to numbskull. Numbskull then told me another store where i could go to purchase an airbrush.

Which as i decided i may as well at least compare some airbrushes... turns out he sent me in the wrong direction.



Sometimes... its just not worth the drive.

Kilkrazy wrote:To make a very general point, genuine salespeople really are in it for the money -- that is what totally motivates them.

That doesn't make them bad people. Plenty of salespeople (I know several guys in my company) are friendly and fun when they aren't trying to sell you something.

When they are on the job, though, everything is about making the sale at the best possible terms.

The point however, repeatedly stated, is there is more than one way to sell something. Becuase if, as you stated, everything is about making the sale at the best possible terms, high pressure isnt always the best way. Its just oen way.

One of these days I'll actually go into a GW store. a few years ago, I passed by the one in Palisades Mall in West Nyack, NY. All it had was one small demo table and then everything else was just boxes of stuff at list price.

Are other GW stores more... gamerlike?

We've got one called "the battle bunker" which is the canadian head office. Loads of play space, always has stock, as it should.

But the other 99% i've been in look all the same. Postage stamp size store with one table in it at most for demos and product lining the walls.

carmachu wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:To make a very general point, genuine salespeople really are in it for the money -- that is what totally motivates them.

That doesn't make them bad people. Plenty of salespeople (I know several guys in my company) are friendly and fun when they aren't trying to sell you something.

When they are on the job, though, everything is about making the sale at the best possible terms.

The point however, repeatedly stated, is there is more than one way to sell something. Becuase if, as you stated, everything is about making the sale at the best possible terms, high pressure isnt always the best way. Its just oen way.

If you read my previous posts, you will see that I have already made that point. This latest post was commenting on high pressure sales in response to the car sales experience mentioned.

carmachu wrote:

The problem is GW, over all, has only one mode. Thats the hard sell. *shrug* One needs to learn, as a salesmen, there's a time to press and a time to back off and let the pot come to a slow boil. Some people like to look and browse and if they need help, they'll ask.

Its something GW needs to learn. No one begrudges sales. But one has o learn to qualify a customer, their needs.

Back one my local FLAGS was owned by someone else, the owner knew me by sight, knew enough to wave off his employees to bother me, as I knew what I wanted, and hell, knew what was on the shelves and such better then the people he employed. Sometimes you have to back off to make the sale.

But GW, over all, wont learn this lesson.

Just interested in how you come to such a conclusion of GW as a whole? It is something that I've seen and experienced- but to say it is all of it? Thats not true at all- Your making a sweeping statement that doesn't take into account the staff who are good at what they do- and by that i mean, doing what is right by the customer- tailoring what they do to the needs of each person they talk to.
Saying that its something that GW needs to learn and doesn't just doesn't fly for me because it isn't what i've experienced from when I was a customeer at alot of stores- and now am finding is starting to become the norm while working in and visiting other GW stores.
To say that GW won't learn this lesson seems funny having sat through an hour of training at work explaining to the new guy what to do and what not to do- and basically saying we'll staple him to the ceiling if he becomes a pushy salesman and forgets the human/hobby side of the job

Maybe GW as a whole isn't like that, but the sheer number of complaints seem to suggest otherwise. I know I've heard way more about aggressive salesmen than I have about non-aggressive types.

I don't have a GW near me so I don't really care either way.

Sidstyler wrote:Maybe GW as a whole isn't like that, but the sheer number of complaints seem to suggest otherwise. I know I've heard way more about aggressive salesmen than I have about non-aggressive types.

I don't have a GW near me so I don't really care either way.

And how often do you think people post threads saying "I had an ok time at GW when I went in today" or "I had a fantastic time!"

Something I've always found about the internet is how people seem to complain more and focus more on the negatives- I see this pretty much wherever I go on the web (heck its the reason I stopped reading the world of warcrack forums... those guys whine about EVERYTHING)

Actually thinking about this- people in general can focus on the negatives alot- a friend of mine is a teacher and got disciplined for one cruddy lesson- but no fuss was made over the hundreds of average to amazing lessons that she'd taught over the previous 10 years!

So yeah- I suppose you hear more of the bad news- doesn't mean that it is necissarily the majority or the norm- just its much more entertaining to talk about!

And just as an example- last week a staff member asked if i needed superglue to stick together my techmarine- I realised I hadn't got any at home- so he'd reminded me and I got some... awesome (but really crap story- big deal)

Better story.... A few years ago (5+) a rubbish idiot of a staff member went through the drawl of trying to grab more money off me by asking if I needed any glue! The cheek... I was buying a black library book... what did he think I needed glue for?

(Both stories are true... which one is more entertaining and more likely to provoke discussion?... now look which is negative )


*edit* and I just realised the irony of me whining about people whining on the internet! *edit*

Recklessfable wrote:One of these days I'll actually go into a GW store. a few years ago, I passed by the one in Palisades Mall in West Nyack, NY. All it had was one small demo table and then everything else was just boxes of stuff at list price.

Too late, that one finally closed down.

Bignutter wrote:

Just interested in how you come to such a conclusion of GW as a whole? It is something that I've seen and experienced- but to say it is all of it? Thats not true at all- Your making a sweeping statement that doesn't take into account the staff who are good at what they do- and by that i mean, doing what is right by the customer- tailoring what they do to the needs of each person they talk to.
Saying that its something that GW needs to learn and doesn't just doesn't fly for me because it isn't what i've experienced from when I was a customeer at alot of stores- and now am finding is starting to become the norm while working in and visiting other GW stores.
To say that GW won't learn this lesson seems funny having sat through an hour of training at work explaining to the new guy what to do and what not to do- and basically saying we'll staple him to the ceiling if he becomes a pushy salesman and forgets the human/hobby side of the job

As I said, GW stores as a whole. Not the Battle bunkers. Yours? an exception. I knew of two folks that were managers and a couple employees and the stories they tell.

Notice in this thread also, that the vast majority of stories are more backing up the high pressure then anything else.

I guarentee your experiences are more an exception then mine. And otehrs I know that have gone through said training.

I'm glad I don't work in "sales" of any description.

My father-in-law (now retired) used to be a salesman of farm machinery. Now farmers are exceptionally tight as a breed. Trying to get them to part with cash is about as easy as squeezing blood out of a stone. Yet somehow he managed it, and made a good living. And still he managed to become friends with his regular clientele. To the extent he often got very nice Christmas presents off them and such.

Now, a £50,000 tractor or £100,000 combine is a far cry from a £20 boxed set of plastic models, but I think I saw in him that it was all about long term relationships and TRUST. His customer KNEW that he wasn't going to stiff them and that he was genuinely going to bend over backwards trying to get them the best deal. So much so that he had farmers from other sales areas ringing him up personally rather than going through the sales rep the company had designated to them in order to buy stuff, as they knew that he was honest and a good person to deal with.

If a salesmen can generate that level of trust he's sorted. But it doesn't come easy. And its why when GW have "shafted vets", and gouged prices year on year, trained orang-utan's in sales techniques and sent them out front to represent the company, and all the rest of it, their salesmen have an uphill mountain to climb. There are undoubtedly good "red shirts" out there, and if you know one, give him a pat and buy stuff off him. The problem is that the red shirts "as a breed", have become devalued in the hobby community as we all have garnered a lot of bad experiences, and "as a breed", we don't trust them. So a slaesman from a generic store is starting off at ground zero in building up our trust in them, but a redshirt (or blueshirt or blackshirt or whatever the heck colour they wear nowadays) is starting off BELOW ground zero - i.e. we automatically distrust them before they even open their mouths!

Way to go GW in building company loyalty.

carmachu wrote:
As I said, GW stores as a whole. Not the Battle bunkers. Yours? an exception. I knew of two folks that were managers and a couple employees and the stories they tell.

Notice in this thread also, that the vast majority of stories are more backing up the high pressure then anything else.

I guarentee your experiences are more an exception then mine. And otehrs I know that have gone through said training.

Hmm, I went through that training too. But then again SToneFox has said I'm an exception rather than the rule here too. I found if staff take the time to listen and customers take the time to explain (not the typical, leave me the frag alone, I can find what I need type of beligerant customer that is just as prevalent as the hardcore sell staff you mention) what they need, any staff can help a person find what they need and then build rapport with that person. I'd like to think that in all my encounters that each person left the store with what they needed, and with an appreciation of my help to the point where they would gladly come back and also bring their friends in as well.

I think this thread in a hole is saddening. your all going to cry and complain about GW trying to sell there product, there job is to sell you stuff, not to sit there and wait for you to figure something out. Yes some times they go over board but that is mostly the new foke that don't nkow what there doing.

Complaining about GW trying to get you to buy something is like complaining about a car salesman telling you about the new car on there lot or yelling at a burger king employee for asking if you want fries with your meal.

two_heads_talking wrote:

Hmm, I went through that training too. But then again SToneFox has said I'm an exception rather than the rule here too. I found if staff take the time to listen and customers take the time to explain (not the typical, leave me the frag alone, I can find what I need type of beligerant customer that is just as prevalent as the hardcore sell staff you mention) what they need, any staff can help a person find what they need and then build rapport with that person. I'd like to think that in all my encounters that each person left the store with what they needed, and with an appreciation of my help to the point where they would gladly come back and also bring their friends in as well.

You are. SO was the guy I game with when he was a manager. I have no doubt there are.

But overall? No there arent enough exceptions, and Osbad said, their already starting behind the 8 ball since GW has had many foot in mouth moments with its fan base.

JokerGod wrote:I think this thread in a hole is saddening. your all going to cry and complain about GW trying to sell there product, there job is to sell you stuff, not to sit there and wait for you to figure something out. Yes some times they go over board but that is mostly the new foke that don't nkow what there doing.

Complaining about GW trying to get you to buy something is like complaining about a car salesman telling you about the new car on there lot or yelling at a burger king employee for asking if you want fries with your meal.

As the old saying goes, you obviously have ears but cant hear what folks are saying.

Yes GW is trying to sell something. But as pointed out, for the most part, have only one way they do it: hard sell. And the fact that one poster pointed out in comparing them to car salesmen to look better, thats a sad state of affairs.

There are a variety of sales methods. Many of them work, sometimes better then the hard sell. It be nice if they actually tried them.

Retail sucks big fat harry cock, may no mistake about it. I work part time sales and the more you actually try to generally help people and use things like empathy the more you get smacked upside the head with the bottom line.

carmachu wrote:

JokerGod wrote:I think this thread in a hole is saddening. your all going to cry and complain about GW trying to sell there product, there job is to sell you stuff, not to sit there and wait for you to figure something out. Yes some times they go over board but that is mostly the new foke that don't nkow what there doing.

Complaining about GW trying to get you to buy something is like complaining about a car salesman telling you about the new car on there lot or yelling at a burger king employee for asking if you want fries with your meal.

As the old saying goes, you obviously have ears but cant hear what folks are saying.

Yes GW is trying to sell something. But as pointed out, for the most part, have only one way they do it: hard sell. And the fact that one poster pointed out in comparing them to car salesmen to look better, thats a sad state of affairs.

There are a variety of sales methods. Many of them work, sometimes better then the hard sell. It be nice if they actually tried them.

Just out of interest- how do you treat the GW staff when you interact with them Carmachu?
And the same for everyone else? How do you react to a staff member when they say hi?

carmachu wrote:

JokerGod wrote:I think this thread in a hole is saddening. your all going to cry and complain about GW trying to sell there product, there job is to sell you stuff, not to sit there and wait for you to figure something out. Yes some times they go over board but that is mostly the new foke that don't nkow what there doing.

Complaining about GW trying to get you to buy something is like complaining about a car salesman telling you about the new car on there lot or yelling at a burger king employee for asking if you want fries with your meal.

As the old saying goes, you obviously have ears but cant hear what folks are saying.

Yes GW is trying to sell something. But as pointed out, for the most part, have only one way they do it: hard sell. And the fact that one poster pointed out in comparing them to car salesmen to look better, thats a sad state of affairs.

There are a variety of sales methods. Many of them work, sometimes better then the hard sell. It be nice if they actually tried them.

Ok we hear a small number of people saying there is number of GW red shirts that throw sale ideas at you, that is a very small number compared to the people that do there job (Selling you gak) and be nice about it, but you don't hear about them because no one comes here to talk about good things, only cry when they get mad about something.

And Red shirts are EXACTLY like car salesmen, or any other retail worker, other then product they have one goal, sell you things you want and getting you to buy a few extras if they can.

People need to stop with all the crap about how its so wrong for them to try and sell you something, its there job! If you would stop treating them like trash and be polite about it they would leave you alone.

The difference is they aren't hobbies. They are also not corporations who base their experience on customer service, to the point of giving some of their money up to run clubs, let people paint in their stores, stand for hours talking about the hobby. If car salesmen or people in burgerking did this they'd have no jobs.

A company with this prescedent of customer service and enjoyment should do more. yes i'm grateful they give up money for these things, but to have these and then push a lot doesn't seem right. As far as im aware at no point of recruitment do they just talk to you, see how you are about the hobby in general. Such a shame.

The Big Mek wrote:
A company with this prescedent of customer service and enjoyment should do more. yes i'm grateful they give up money for these things, but to have these and then push a lot doesn't seem right. As far as im aware at no point of recruitment do they just talk to you, see how you are about the hobby in general. Such a shame.

Actually they do- and alot of stores really push those aspects- harder in some cases than the "hard sales" that everyone seems to hate

but as its been said before- all it takes is one bad story for everyone to jump on the negative bandwagon, regardless of the number of positive stories that go untold

not like it's gonna stop many people from buying from them...unless they go to the Warstore and E-bay or something like that

TheCapm wrote:not like it's gonna stop many people from buying from them...unless they go to the Warstore and E-bay or something like that

EBay is a long and tiring fight for most things and is not worth it depending on shipping, and people will always go to GW stores when there in the area and need/want something right away.

How ever I dought GW cares how you buy there models, in the end the money still comes back to them.

Exactly, I mean, unless everyone gives up the hobby they still get a steady income

JokerGod wrote:

TheCapm wrote:not like it's gonna stop many people from buying from them...unless they go to the Warstore and E-bay or something like that

EBay is a long and tiring fight for most things and is not worth it depending on shipping, and people will always go to GW stores when there in the area and need/want something right away.

How ever I dought GW cares how you buy there models, in the end the money still comes back to them.

People need to stop with all the crap about how its so wrong for them to try and sell you something, its there job! If you would stop treating them like trash and be polite about it they would leave you alone.

You're right, everyone's just a liar, they're all donkey-caves who treat their innocent, selfless red shirts like gak and that's the only reason why they employ high-pressure sales tactics. If you weren't such a jerk then they'd leave you alone.

Chrispy wrote:

Two good experiences I had at the store attached to the Battle Bunker in MD recently

You know, that's exactly the experience I had visiting the GW HQ at Glen Bernie, MD. I've been out of the game for a few years (5 as well) and when I went back the first time in December, I was pleasantly surprised. The staff was helpful but not pushy. I asked them to teach me the basics of the new edition, and they even set me up with a knowledgeable opponent who was happy to patiently teach me the intricacies. I pulled out my old Ork stuff and we had a good time playing.

Last week, I visited again with the plan to bring along my Skullhammer conversion and work on it in store. I sat at a table, and was greeted by the district manager. He gave me some helpful tips, a small sales pitch, and then introduced me to the veteran hobbyists. I plan to make my visits a weekly occurrence. We'll see about buying from them, though.

Maybe my experience was rare. Maybe the store I visit is extraordinary or something, but I've officially changed my mind about GW stores from the first year they opened in 2004.

I had almost the same thing happen. I had been out of the hobby for awhile and walked into the bunker and literally they spent over an hour walking me through whats gone on for the last 5 years. I was interested in DKoK and they actually talked me into regular guard first! They talked me into spending less money!

They will always get my business now, for the time they spent and actually not worrying about making the big sale. I buy everything from there. No more E-Bay for me. I support my local shop!

For what it's worth, that's at least 3 positive experiences from this thread so people DO post their positive experiences... even if it's on a thread about a negative one in this case

Bignutter wrote:
Just out of interest- how do you treat the GW staff when you interact with them Carmachu?
And the same for everyone else? How do you react to a staff member when they say hi?

Same as whetther I'm in sears, circuit city or elsewhere.

"No thanks, just looking."

If they understand that, great. If they try the hard sell it gets less polite.....just like any store I would walk into. When I need help or a question, I'll ask. But generally I like to browse first, then look for help.

Bignutter wrote:

Actually they do- and alot of stores really push those aspects- harder in some cases than the "hard sales" that everyone seems to hate

but as its been said before- all it takes is one bad story for everyone to jump on the negative bandwagon, regardless of the number of positive stories that go untold

Just as the fanboys and defenders poo poo any bad stories and hand wave away any bad experiences ......

Too bad for GW i've discovered the joy of trademe!!! Saves so much $ that way!!!!

I used to use online stores and ebay, ebay I decided was such a scam - models broken or missing bits or selling for close enough original price you might as well buy them from GW. There is also something nice about getting stuff totally new.

I have now decided only to order from online retailers for big orders (like over hundred pounds).

It helps that my local GW (Belfast) dont try the hard sell with me even tho im not a regular, its just a friendly hi anything we can help you with and thats it.

Well, as what would be my FLGS is a GW (Stony Point, Richmond, VA for the curious) if I was actively purchasing gaming things (Need a proper job first), I figue I'll post my story from the last 2 times I visited.

First time, I got the standard "Hi, what do you play/what are you looking for" question. I told them that I was interested in Tau and had been playing on and off since 2nd edition and had heard there was a new version coming out. The staff were nice enought to go get the store copy of the 5th ed rulebook for me, they showed me that briefly. They tried to pre-sell me an AoBR set as it was the same rulebook plus a bunch of minis for a good price. No problem with that.

Came back a couple weeks later, bought the BGB. The staff remembered me, gave me a few flyers about their Veterans nights and offered to let me try a game against one of the staffers with a store Tau army to learn the rules. No trying to sell me on anything else, not even a WD or paints or anything.

I was impressed by the friendly and helpful staff, and will likely purchase at least my mandatory HQ and Troops from the store as it's a nice environment and had decent people to play against.

I will likely order most of my planned Suits/Vehicles on-line just because of the discount (unless GW has a special package, like the Apoc sets), but I'll certainly buy my paints and hobby supplies from the GW store, as well as likely later expansions just because I support their practices

The Big Mek wrote:There's a game a few of my friends have started called 'The Games Workshop Game' and the idea is to go to the back of the shop, touch the wall and walk back out again without being advised to be bought something, bearing in mind my GW is literally around 6 foot wide, which will a desk in makes it very thin and takes no time at all to touch the wall.
No one has ever won this game unless there were a girl, who never seem to be even looked at.

LOL. I regularaly send my girlfriend in to pick stuff up for me. She says the place goes deathly quiet when she walks in. It avoids the social awkwardsness of being dragged into conversations that begin with "have you seen the new...". I really think they need to tone down the cheesey sales pitches. I really don't like going into stores, because it can seem like a cult, and that's a shame.

Hmm. I went into a GW shop at a mall in the Philly area (don't remember which mall, but I believe it was north of Philly). On the way out, I got asked if I needed help with anything and what army I played. I responded, "Imperial Guard", and his immediate question was, "Oh! What chapter do you play?"

I'm a rabid Guardsman and hate Space Marines, so I glared at him and huffed, "Guard don't have chapters, they have Regiments". I still feel kinda bad about that, but hey, he was wrong.....

two_heads_talking wrote:

carmachu wrote:
As I said, GW stores as a whole. Not the Battle bunkers. Yours? an exception. I knew of two folks that were managers and a couple employees and the stories they tell.

Notice in this thread also, that the vast majority of stories are more backing up the high pressure then anything else.

I guarentee your experiences are more an exception then mine. And otehrs I know that have gone through said training.

Hmm, I went through that training too. But then again SToneFox has said I'm an exception rather than the rule here too. I found if staff take the time to listen and customers take the time to explain (not the typical, leave me the frag alone, I can find what I need type of beligerant customer that is just as prevalent as the hardcore sell staff you mention) what they need, any staff can help a person find what they need and then build rapport with that person. I'd like to think that in all my encounters that each person left the store with what they needed, and with an appreciation of my help to the point where they would gladly come back and also bring their friends in as well.

I enjoyed buying from you more than from the old manager. But ever since B's been in charge, he seems to have gotten all of the new crew to be more laid back in their sales methods. Rapport's more important in the GW sell, I agree. Needless to say there are some weird guys who come in who prob don't need to feel alienated from the staff.

It may be the US economy and general sense of apathy (that and Las Vegas isn't a huge gaming market) but lately my FLGS seems to be annoyed by anyone's presence (unless it's RC cars). I know the wargaming/roleplaying guys have been laid off but the others don't seem to want to answer questions regarding anything. I would think they'd be more apt to sell something during the slowdown as the store is emptier than ever, but if it isn't RC cars, don't talk to 'em! Just my observations on my local level. I also do not have a GW store within several hundred miles.

Having just spent the last 45 minutes reading through all 5 pages of posts here to catch up it seems that a lot of people aren't as comfortable with their local GW as they once were. Ive been in a lot of GW's over the years and its been interesting to read how people have felt when they've gone into a store recently compared with how they used to feel. I definetely agree with the comments that less experienced staff make more mistakes in talking to customers but then that happens in all shops not just GW and that the more experienced staff or the ones who have been in that branch longer will react differently since they understand each persons needs better. Ive never had a bad incident with a staff member so maybe i cant understand how its affected some people but have you ever thought of talking to your local manager about how you feel and seeing if they can explain why things are happening as they are?

I prefer gw to all other stores in my local area
I know the whole over excited sales thing is annoying however I love the personal touch,
I was at games day last year and I was very irraitated, I had asked to purchase 19 different products and none had been in stock.
Then I asked for the games da miniature that you det with the ticke not having recieved it yet

I was surprised to hear that I should have got it through the post but when I explained my position the man just gave me the miniature and sent me on my way.

in short

Managers=Bad
Employees=good

Septic wrote:I was at games day last year and I was very irraitated, I had asked to purchase 19 different products and none had been in stock.

Games Day UK always runs out of stock, I remember going back to my first Uk games Day (1995) and it was ever thus.

Wow, I'm surprised by some of the replies just on the first page.

At my local GW (well the one in the nearest city) I usually get there before noon, so there's pretty much noone there and the employees are just arriving. Usually, one will greet me in a kinda offhand way and leave me be. Hell, I'm usually the one hounding them with questions about weird situations that arise while gaming, such as 'how much will this custom unit cost if it's like a baneblade that shoots 10" blast vortexes and has a hellhammer cannon instead of a demolisher'. They don't really talk to me otherwise, and I usually have to wait at the register with all my stuff when I'm ready to pay.

Yes, I actually asked that question and I was told 1000 pts. I actually use that baneblade, and I once killed 5 'nid MCs in one shot - a tyrant and 4 'fexs, and I think a zoan and a guard. It's the crown jewel of the 8k+ pts worth of minis that I own, and I hope to post a pic here once I find a suitable camera that can hook up to my comp without blue screen of death or something equally exaggerated by me.

There's two GW stores near me. Perth and Morley.

They had a staff change a few months ago.

I walk into one, the staff are friendly and don't try to sell me stuff. Why? Because they know me. Which is surprising, because I'm a horrible, horrible impulse shopper. Heh.

I walk into the other, the new young staffers try to convince me to buy stuff.

As stated earlier in the thread, it's an issue of being new and in sales. You're 18 and you've got a job, being paid to talk about something you love. You're also told you've got to try to get people to buy stuff they don't want.

I always get asked if I need glue and other accessories but, eh. More than once I needed some and forgot until the staffer mentioned it.

I feel that they certainly are aggressive, its almost like :

If you dont own any GW product , they'll make sure you walk about with starter set.

If you already have an army, they'll make sure you walk out with either : battalion , another box of unit ,

or: lots of paints, paint brushes, primer , varnish.

And if you have all of that, would you like to subscribe to White dwarf? its 30% off and you get a
free mini.

I enjoy going into my 'local' GW store. but then again, I think they all know me well enough to know that I buy what I feel I need without a sales pitch...

I don't remember getting the sales pitch badly in other GW shops either...

I'm surprised this thread is still going really but as I popped into my local GW yesterday I thought I'd share my experience.

So I walk in and am greeted by one of the staff at the front of the shop, I say hello then wander around a bit watching a few of the games. I see one of the staff is free and I ask him about the citadel washes that I intended to buy. We have a lengthy chat then he offers to let me try some on one of the demo minis that are half painted. I accept and he goes to help other customers. Couple minutes later he comes back to me and points out what the wash had done. Then I pick up the washes and a few Eldar kits and I go over to the till. As he is processing my purchases he talks about his Eldar army and then drops in the "You alright for glue?" I say I am and then I finish paying and leave the shop

This was a great experience at a GW shop and I can honestly never remember a bad one.

I think like every retail outlet ever, the GW experience comes down to the quality and experience of the staff. I'm lucky that my GW (which sadly doubles as my FLGS right now :-( ) is one of the better ones

at my 2 local stores (london, where i live, and manchester, where im based) they know better than to advise me on what i need
since most of the time i have a set list, or i get bored and buy a rabble of boxes for random ideas.