In assault, what is it? Abbadon, c'tan, genestealers..
what do you think is the best unit available, same goes for shooting,
lets factor in offensive ability, survivability and points cost

I'll start with genestealers, in the fluff they are one of the if not the best
troop units for assault in the game..
whats yours?

Whatever unit that, within the framework of you army, allows you to have a significant impact on your enemy, wether it will be distracting him, killing him or stopping him.

For the record; this is a exeedingly odd, some might say "stupid", question.

Best point for point? or best overall, points no object?

Point for point = rough riders
overall = max size seer council

Moving to a more appropriate forum

Angron+bloodthirster retinue

but the Angron+'thirsters retinue can only be fielded in apoc, in basic 40k i gotta say i think that the humble khorne lord with daemon weapon can be one of the most destructive units, especialy if you have 9 zerkers with him and stick them in a rhino, what ever they hit will generaly die a horrable death

Bloodcrushers are pretty hard to beat point for point especially if were talking just one unit.

I'm a big fan of both Wraithlords and the Avatar. Both hard as nails, strong and not overly expensive.

Bloodcrushers, Nob Bikes and Assault Terminators are the first units to spring to my mind.

Nob bikers without a doubt in my opinion.

G

Tau gun drones they are the best combat killing machines out there...

Nob Bikers, Blood Crushers, IG Command Squad kitted out w/ a Vox officer....

Kitted out Vanguard. My humble opinion.

Point for point, Bloodcrushers are one of the best.

Fateweaver. The ability to allow any friendly unit within 6" to reroll all failed saves is insanely potent. Add in 3 shooting attacks at up to 3 different targets each round, 12 inch movement, and monstrous creature, he's worth every last point.

The humble gaunt. So cheap, so useful.

Ghazghkull when fielded in a horde Ork army. By turn 3, calling the WAAAGH!, you'll be all over your opponent with charges

dancingcricket wrote:Fateweaver. The ability to allow any friendly unit within 6" to reroll all failed saves is insanely potent. Add in 3 shooting attacks at up to 3 different targets each round, 12 inch movement, and monstrous creature, he's worth every last point.

Quoted for so much truth. Demons generally have bad saves, so being able to make every save you make is huge.

Seer council can be fielded from 3man to 10man squads and are awesome through all the motions & scales.

Skulltaker. He just wins.

Point for point, the ork boy.

Space marine stat line with a bit worse armor save, - 1 initiative and strength, coming with furious charge, mob rule for the fearlessness, and costing 30% of the points.

He's the biggest deal in 40k IMO

Summoned Greater Daemon, for 100 points it can bust tanks +2d6 armor pen, kill anything in melee 6 attacks on the charge and has a 50/50 chance of saving anything that wounds him with a 4+ invul!. Find me a unit that only costs 100 points with the same stats.

Unconditionally, I would say the Fateweaver. It deals with one of the big weaknesses of demons and is a beast to boot.
Conditionally, Ghaz. In a mob of boyz he is simply awesome.

Old Zogwort turns the most powerful ICs into squigs!

Fateweaver duuu makes the hole army 2x as hard to kill hahha

Marneus Calgur!

I think Nob Bikers, with a close second going to Bloodcrushers.

Rough Riders, cheap, hard hitting and also one of the most overlooked units in the game.

augustus5 wrote:Rough Riders, cheap, hard hitting and also one of the most overlooked units in the game.

Watz so good about them?

You get an 11-point model dishing out three Str5 Init5 Power Weapon attacks on the charge. Since they have Fleet and can charge 12", they rarely lose out on this.

They're one hit wonders though, but for so few points, they can afford to be.

A five-man with a Sergeant is 60 points, and will throw out 16 such attacks. Pretty nasty for a Codex that generally has a bunch of crap CC and counter-charge.

My contribution is Black Templar Terminators with Furious Charge. They're expensive, and they require a Crusader to move quickly and be in large enough numbers to count, but they are absolutely devastating. They're the only thing in the army that can reliably take down any CC monster in the game (Apocalypse doesn't count, so no pointing out that Angra'ath owns them, Extrenm54).

CK

Roughriders are like 14 points..
that are fast, powerfulish when they charge because of their lances.. and mega cheap for cavalry unit
Wolf Scouts have got to be on the list.. they ALWAYS earn back their points

after a surprising game a couple of weeks ago I'm gonna go with Guad Concripts! Yes I said that right. For the points the poor little guys put out so much firpower they almost took down a demon prince (this is the minimum 20 guys). Saying that they were completly butchered the following turn, just one more failed save would have saved them and propably won me the game. Said prince went on to cause havoc with that last wound! Also great meat shild and the size of the squad can also be used to block of a large area of the battleield for a turn (more if you can make them pass ld tests or even survive a turn of combat)

If points are of no object then the nightbringer wins CC hands down.

Night Bringer, ehhh. Nob Bikers win HTH one on one with anything, so Im going with them, that plus their resiliance.

Ok lets have a duel, the nightbringer vs a nob biker.

Darth wrote:Ok lets have a duel, the nightbringer vs a nob biker.

let's have a duel nightbringer vs skulltaker...

Fateweaver, for the already mentioned reasons.
Seer council on bike is close.

A full bike seer council is better than noob bikers =]

Who's skulltaker?

Skull taker is the champion of Khorne, in the Chaos Daemons.

Arleucs probbaly assumes that because the Skulltaker can rend on a 4 he can automaticly beat the Nightbringer. Unfortunatly for him the Skulltaker is T4 and is weak in almst every other way from a 5+ save to S4.

Besides the Nightbring not only excells in dueling other heroes but at also destroying hordes of troops. All of this alas at the cost of 360 points.
So as to the OP's question

"Most Powerful Unit in 40k" : The Nightbringer.

Eldrad: I used him at several occasions and he always refused to die with his fortuned invulnerable save.

Well, the NB used to be the pound for pound champ, but Skulltaker in fact overtakes him.

Init 5: SK on chariot swings 6 times, hits 4. 2 are rend/instant deaths. NB makes one save, dies.

That's even if the NB gets the charge, without immunity to instant death taker has his number.

That said, NB still obliterates just about every other guy in the game, including many who own Taker.

Anyway, to return to the "best unit" debate.

In 4th I'd have said the Deceiver. His impact on the game was absurd. He allowed a Necron list that...oh, I've said this all before. Everyone knows he rocked.

Nowadays...It's a tough call. Certainly the Ork boy, the Loota and Fateweaver are all strong contenders. Bloodcrushers and Soul Grinders are also amazing, as I imagine Nob Bikers are (only played vs. them once, and the guy was a scrub).

I'm going to go with the Lash Sorcerer. With wings he only "moves as" jump infantry, and hence can still ride in a rhino (stupid FAQ!). He's decent in melee, with his force weapon and high init, and with 12" move and the ability to hide in infantry squads he's where you need him....And he Lashes. Lash is insanely brutal, and has such an absurd synergy with everything in the list that its borderline preposterous. Lashing things into templates, lashing things into charge range, pulling units into lines so that they can't all fight...its just insane.

Rough riders, point for point will butcher anything else you throw at them.

you can get about 30 for the cost of night bringer, he's a-gonna die

oh and they could las-pistol skull taker to death, then pistol whip his sorry arse

Yeah or you can legally take 120 grots for the same points as a nightbringer!!!!!!!
with 12 poisoned runt herds he'll die..
it will be slow but last time i checked he didnt have 120 HtH attack her her her

Lol he would just use his pie plate in the assault phase, he would cover nearly all of them and wound without save on a 4+.

They would be dead within 3 turns.

why wolf scouts?

Gaz with 10 mega nobs in a battlefortress

nob bikers

rough riders with lance are 11points, but each has only 2 attacks on the charge, not 3

Point for Point a Broodlord.

Broodlord, Implant Attacks, Toxin Sacs, Carapace, Flesh Hooks = 106 Points.

Wolf Scouts are Great...
they have pretty much the same rule as Snikrot
(ie, can come on from reserves from any board edge)
This lets them kill a devastator squad or 2, a tank or various other things... an experianced player might be able to avoid them but they are still very prominent for
Space Wolves Players

i hate ultramarines but marneus calgar with fully kitted out honour guard i'm talkin' 10 men, relic blades and chapter banner.

Another Advocate for the C'Tan here, but I'm usually more of a Deceiver fan. He never gets charged, can hop away when he wants, and has higher initiative than Nightbringer. Only thing missing is the ability to instant kill T5, but its not something I usually find myself needing. Seems like he could be a good match for your boy the Skulltaker, at least they would spoon each other after they both died. Deceiver said he wants to be the big spoon.

Skulltaker would still win in a fight, albeit he'd actually get hit in return. So he might die.

But that the Deciever would actually do is run up and stand there within 1" of the skulltaker & his squad.. unleash his crazy mental powers against that entire army and on thier turn, that squad would either have to move around (or can you simple move through with sufficient movement?) that monsterous creature base - at the very least being annoying/difficult or charge.. which would be a silly thing to do as it would never get hit & waste that squads assault phase.

Deciever would never be killed by skulltaker (and realistic squad of letters or crushers) and do lots to the opposing army. So, in a sense, he would win.

Fateweaver with his 6 inch fortune bubble.

TH/SS terminators are pretty killy. they have the survivability to stick around, and have a bucket load of huge nasty hits back.

15 Blood claw with three power weapons charging any unit with a Wolf Guard Battle Leader. That's attacks 81 attacks kinda broken huh?

Blood Claw
That's 1 base + 2 for berserk charge + 1 for a bolt pistol + 1 for counter attack = 75 attacks = ew

Wolf Guard Battle Leader
Thats 4 base + 1 for charge + 1 for counter attack = 6

Imagine if you had two packs of 15 on the field thats 162 attacks in one turn if all goes well.

Ragnar Blackmane + 5 Wolfguard Terminators with TH/SS and Wolf Pelts mounted in a Land Raider. On the charge 7 S5 Power attacks and 20 TH attacks. For an extra mean punch add in another Wolf Guard Battleleader with a Frost Blade (S5 Power Weapon) for another 7 I5 power weapon attacks.

HighLordUlrik wrote:That's 1 base + 2 for berserk charge + 1 for a bolt pistol + 1 for counter attack = 75 attacks = ew

how are you getting the 2 bonus attacks from berzerk charge, AND the +1 from counter attack?

'Blood Claws receive +2 attacks when they charge rather than only +1 attack as is normally the case' - Taken straight out of the dex.
And they have the 'Counter attack special rule stated on the third page of the dex, you roll for counter attack the first turn of the attack therefore they get +1 to attack so that makes it three attacks +1 base +1 for the bolt pistol so that makes it 5 attacks each so 5 * 15 = 75

Im not trying to be rude if that what it seams like. Sorry if so

Berserk charge only gives you the +2 attacks on a counter charge not +3. The only way you would get +3 is if you have Ragnar joined to a unit with Wolf Pelts since they add an additional +1 attack on counter charge.

Okay sorry, my bad, I still think blood claws are broken.

Generic lesser Daemons from the Chaos codex have proven very useful for me......only 130 points for 10 and have tied up a tyrant/guard retinue for 3 turns before and get 30 attacks on the charge/fearless/5+invul

ditto that. I have gotten some surpristing results using them. Also, I recently assaulted 12 chaos spawn into 10 chaos terminators and wiped them on the charge. Not terribly likely, but it was pretty darn cool.

C'tan!!!!!!

The most powerful unit in close combat...

When I think of how to answer this, I imagine 1 unit going against 1 unit. Lets presume we're not talking about attaching ICs to units, because then you can do some crazy things with Ork nobs and warbosses....

The most powerful unit in close combat is either C'Tan or Ghazgul Thraka.

C'Tan is Toughness 8, and his warscythe ignores all saves, including invulnerable saves. If you tangle C'Tan in close combat, you die.


Ghazgul Thraka. My wife plays Orks, I play Tau. I've been having a bit of fun with her Orks lately, and Ghazgul Thraka can single-handedly kill any of the units (including C'Tan) that everyone here just listed. He has a Strength 10 powerklaw, and 7 attacks on the charge. In any game, he'll be assaulting in turn 2+, which means that he'll Waaaugh! the turn he assaults....and that means that he has a 2+ invulnerable save for his turn and your turn. He has a weapon skill of 6, so he's going to probably need 3s to hit and 2s to wound, and you'll get no armour saves. And in return, he has a 2+ invulnerable save and he's immune to instant death.

In a tournament this past weekend, I had Ghazgul Thraka in a trukk with 10 nobs. I was playing against a terminator army (1300 points). The guy had 2 units of space marines, 1 scout unit, and a swarm of terminators with a Knight-Captain or something as his HQ. Ghazgul broke from the nobs, who went and assaulted his space marines with 4 power klaws, and Ghazgul went to single-handedly deal with the terminators and the HQ. He strikes at initiative 1, but who cares? 2+ invulnerable save, and he's attacking with weapon skill 6, strength 10 powerfist. The terminators and independent character ate it.

Now....using *likely* situations - that means that Ghazgul Thraka is going to either assault or be assaulted turn 2 (by being assaulted, that's presuming you're hitting him with an outflanking unit that came on) what unit in 40k can beat a toughness 5, 4 wound model that is immune to instant death with a 2+ invulnerable save that will get 5-7 powerfist attacks on you per turn?

In my opinion, the most powerful units in the curent 40k edition are Sternguard. In a squad of 10, 2 lascannons and 8 combi-plasma's or combi-meltas, they can take down practically everything before it even gets close. If necessery, they can blow out 8S8 and 2S9 shots in a single shooting phase. That will take down almost anything.

In a recent 1600pts game, i used a scaled-down version of the squad, consisting of 7 sternguard /w 2 lascannons (230pts) and ik took a C'tan down in a single shooting phase.

Is possible, support this sdquad by either a Librarian /w gate of infinity and null zone, or pedro kantor and it'll take down almost everything.

Grt. Pim

hehehe the most top of the line assult unit i have put together is the awsome commisar assult squad. it consists of 9 independent commisars joining up into the command squad to deal rediculous amount of damage for a redicuolusly low cost(10 pt= ws/4,bs/4,w/2,ld/10, and can include powerfists and powerswords)+1 heroic sr officer= masive amount of damage especialy if you can put them in a regular squad with close order drill(+1 initiative). but i guess it wouldent count as a single unit because technicly im combining the independent commisars.IDK...you decide

Yes But your commisar unit is how many kill points..
like 30?

This is the List So far: (basewd on value compared to points)

Abbadon
Ghazgull
C'tan
Sterngaurd
Avatar
Skulltaker
Ork Boy
Loota
Grot
Wolf Scouts
Genestealers
Basilisk
Harlequins
Whyches
TH/SS Terminators
Monolith
Conscript
...
What else?

I'm a big fan of obliterators myself. They have an excellent variety of heavy weapons to suit the needs of almost any situation.

tyranid bio titan!

Very true. Obs, DP's and Plague Marines are all quite powerful

What about the Nightbringer and the Deceiver 4 or 5 attacks each turn, you can't forget about that. But I do have to agree with everyone about the Nob Bikers.

This is the List So far: (basewd on value compared to points)

Abbadon
Ghazgull
C'tan
Jetseer
Noob Bikers
Sterngaurd
Avatar
Skulltaker
Ork Boy
Loota
Grot
Wolf Scouts + Snikrot
Genestealers
Basilisk
Harlequins
Whyches
TH/SS Terminators
Monolith
Conscript
Obs
Daemon prince (with wings, possibly lash)
...
What else?

I probably wouldn't place genestealers in the top list anymore given the accumulated rending nerfs in 5th.

Now in 4rth, yeah they were nasty, capable of ripping apart landraiders, MC, Terminators, ect with ease.

I would have placed Blood Claws before Wolf Scouts. Cheap PF options, with +2 attack when charging/counter charging, and large 15 man units, makes for a pretty affective unit.

@adie:

Rough Rider: 8 Points
Hunting Lance: 3 Points
Total: 11 Points per model
Veteran Sergeant is an extra 6 points.

1 Vet Sgt + 4 RRs + 5 Hunting Lances = 61 Points.

Not sure where you're getting 14 pts per model from...

Problem is, they're Gaurdsmen. I don't care how BAMF they are on the charge, if 5 T3 Sv5+ Guardsmen are exposed for more than the turn they charge, they're dead. A 5-man Bolter-packing Combat-Squadded Marine unit would drop them like a bad habit

It's why I prefer triple Hellhounds.

CK

gaz and 10 mega nobz in a battlefortress what else?

@Corpsman_of_Krieg

My bad man I dont play IG and was half geussing

A Grot!!!!

lol j/k

To kill a grot you have to commit an entire wound..
its 3 points for a wound, and for a mere 720 points (roughly the same as a noob biker squad) you can get 180 wounds, plus 18 runtherds..
So it's like: "how many points does your 120 point wraithlord have.. whats that? only 3? well i have 180 xD!!!"
hahahah

Hands down the assault terminator. for 40 points you get 2 S8 attacks, a 2+ save, and a 3+ invulnerable save. They can survive all sorts of punishment from shooting and HtH. Put them in a landraider and it's game over.

dr vompire wrote:Rough riders, point for point will butcher anything else you throw at them.

you can get about 30 for the cost of night bringer, he's a-gonna die

rough riders would get one charge in, then get pie plated, bown away and charded, not really too scary, but 25 chargig or so? still only 1 or 2 wounds.

adielubbe wrote:Yeah or you can legally take 120 grots for the same points as a nightbringer!!!!!!!
with 12 poisoned runt herds he'll die..
it will be slow but last time i checked he didnt have 120 HtH attack her her her

true the poisned weapons would kill him, but grots cant charge the nightbringer due to their t2 (models t3 or under are blown away when within 6 inch of NB at the beginning of your assault)

At my local GW they had a hero battle. i used Ghazkull. he did pretty good untill i fought Abaddon which i lost against. but it was a great fight.

inquisitors! daemon hunters are so broken! mystic will let you take shots at deep strikers, and you can have a really large amount of wep. servitors, ig with heavy weapons, and a targeter can let you pre-measure, ( more broken) not to mention grimoire of true names, which makes all daemons attacking the unit half WS and a daemon hammer strikes at normal Initiative , so bye bye Angron, blood thirster ,and avatar (and anything deep striking) and a null rod will basically wipe out any psychic power, while word of the emperor will make units charging take a morale test.( cant be used with the null rod though) and sacred incense will make all chaos units take the same test with-1, and the CCWs these guys can pack is ridiculous.

And again....Ghazghkull shouldn't lose against Abbadon if you're on your Waaugh!

He can't punch through your 2+ invulnerable save, even with his 5-11 attacks. You shrug them off like flies, and you're invulnerable to instant death. Abbadon is a *great* nob killer; for taking down Nob bikers, or nobs in trucks, but he and Ghazghkull head to head? Ghazghkull every time.

*laughing* In a hero fight, I bring a Tau commander *every time*. 24" plasma STR6 AP2 shots, 12" rapid fire, with shield drones and a missile launcher or a cyclic ion (lot of options).

You move away 6", fire, assault move away 6", and you always win. No one can catch you when you're moving 12" per turn and pouring plasma into them.

SWEEEET xD!!!!

A Dark Eldar archon loaded with combat drugs, agoniser, and shadow field:

2+ invulnerable save, wounds on 4+ automatically power weapon, 7 attacks with rerolls to hit on the charge...

Ciaphas-Cain wrote: A Dark Eldar archon loaded with combat drugs, agoniser, and shadow field:

2+ invulnerable save, wounds on 4+ automatically power weapon, 7 attacks with rerolls to hit on the charge...

Tell me more about this archon...

How many points is this dark eldar guy?

What about the IG psyker with master crafted force weapon and honorifica imperialis? 77pts, ws4 with re-rolls to hit, ok hes only str 3 but if 1 wound goes through all he needs to do is pass a leadership test at ld9 and kpow! If you put him in a squad witha commisar and heroic snr officer, both with power fists then MCs will die. If you want to get nastier then arm the 4 guardsmen with melta guns or flamers and mount them in a chimera.

As soon as you park the chimera and dismount (hiding the squad from half the opponent's army with the chmera) waste the nearest squad/tank. Next turn either assault or be assaulted. either way something will survive (hopefully its the psyker) and you can cause some more damage.

And why has no-one mentioned a winged hive tyrant?

Dashofpepper wrote:

Ciaphas-Cain wrote: A Dark Eldar archon loaded with combat drugs, agoniser, and shadow field:

2+ invulnerable save, wounds on 4+ automatically power weapon, 7 attacks with rerolls to hit on the charge...

Tell me more about this archon...

Did everyone forget about dark eldar archons all of a sudden?

Yes.. tell m e about them?

dark eldar lord, kitted up and with 10 incubi in a raider. in my opinion this is the most powerful unit you can get in a small battle ( i dont have one but my freind does.... ) it will sweep across the battle field and there is no unit in the game ( as far as i can see ) that can stop it in close combat.

Wow thats intense

wat about 10 enhanced fortuned doomed wrathgaurd?
With warlock + farseer..

MoC or GK Terminators are pretty fearsome in CC.
As for shooting, either Sternguard or Reapers.

Flamers of Tzeencth
Though they maybe expensive at 35 a model with minimum 3 in a unit the ability to pop up behind enemy infantry and deliver three template weapons wound on a 4+ with no armour or cover save its the ultimate infantry killer plus it also glances a vehicle on a 4+ so woot

bottbott wrote:dark eldar lord, kitted up and with 10 incubi in a raider. in my opinion this is the most powerful unit you can get in a small battle ( i dont have one but my freind does.... ) it will sweep across the battle field and there is no unit in the game ( as far as i can see ) that can stop it in close combat.

Again...presuming we're on the Waaugh! here because you won't be assaulting turn 1: Ghazghkull Thraka has a 2+ invulnerable save, 7 Strength 10 powerfist attacks on the charge, 4 wounds, and is immune to instant death. The rest of his stat-line is pretty impressive. Unless your weapon skill is 8+? You're going to need 4s to hit him, and 4s or 5s to wound, and he's going to need 3s to hit, 2s to wound against you.

I forsee Your dark eldar lord and squad biting the dust. =p

wat about 10 enhanced fortuned doomed wrathgaurd?
With warlock + farseer..

adielubbe wrote:wat about 10 enhanced fortuned doomed wrathgaurd?
With warlock + farseer..

Ad a unit that is damn effective.


One of my all time fav's