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Post by: Reecius
Most of you probably take a peek over at warseer form time to time as I do, so you may have seen this already. But this is an updated list of all of the rumors concerning the upcoming IG via the Dude from Warseer. A lot of this has been covered, some of it is new but mostly its jus tnice and easy to read here. Enjoy.
Okay. Due to yet another rumour thread getting drowned in wish-listing, I have decided to break my vow and run another summary thread.
I will keep the first post updated. If I’ve missed anything, please let me know.
Just a warning though, I will not take kindly to people abusing this thread. There is already a wishlist thread here, so please keep discussion in this thread related to new rumours or discussion of how current rumours may impact you or other rules etc. Also, whilst I am happy to recieve thanks, please only post it if you have something else to say about the rumours. 50 kajillion posts that just say, "Thanks Dude" only serve to clutter the thread .
General info
Release Rumoured to be 2 May 2009.
Rumoured to include at least 2 waves of releases. It is unclear when the second wave will appear.
Rules
Judging from the release schedule, it is pretty much confirmed that Primaris Psykers will make a return. Their rules can only be speculated on as yet.
There is rumoured to be a new commander type called a Fleet Officer that allows some type of orbital bombardment.
The green of a Commissar Lord was seen some time ago, and it is rumoured to have rules in the new Codex. Some have said this could include allowing Stormtroopers as Troops choices.
There has also been rumoured to be an Inquisitor and Retinue entry as an HQ choice, which would supposedly appear much like the elites from the current Daemon Hunters/Witch Hunters books.
The advisors special rule may have been dropped. It is not clear if it has been replaced with something else or if they count as Squad upgrades.
The assumption has been made based on the WIP Stormtrooper mini that Stormtroopers will be able to take shotguns and can Infiltrate if not transported. You can supposedly have a Storm Trooper Squad/Platoon as a Troops choice (not clear if this means both or one of), but this is reliant on an upgraded HQ choice, which is NOT linked to the Commissar Lord as previously rumoured, just the basic Officer who can be upgraded for x-amount to get Storm Troopers as Troops. They may also get to pick from a list of mission 'operations', such as outflank, deepstrike etc.
There are apparently a few other things that you can give the Command Squad to affect the army.
Sniper Squads can supposedly infiltrate, get stealth, range finders and all models in the squad have sniper rifles and BS 4.
Veteran squads are rumoured to become upgrades to platoons rather than Elites choices and may work like Ork Ard Boyz in that you may upgrade one unit in the whole army.
Platoons will supposedly benefit from various special rules which only work if the Platoon command squad is alive and within 12” of the rest of the platoon. One such special rule is rumoured to be called "Platoon Drill" or something similar, and grants the ability to ignore any other squad within the Platoon for the purposes of determining the enemy's cover save. What this means is that the Guard squads will get a cover save when being shot at through a squad in the same Platoon, but their enemy will not get one when the squad shoots back.
Another unconfirmed rumour says Platoons will have some kind of "overwatch" rules, allowing them a round of shooting during the enemy’s shooting phase at the cost of shooting and assaulting next turn (effectively going to ground). It is unclear what, if any, further restrictions apply (one per turn, once per battle?).
reds8n semi confirms this with the following:
Originally Posted by reds8n
I believe that command squads will in fact be able to give actual orders to their troops-- I assume perhaps only the ones under their direct command perhaps ? These have various affects, the ones I heard about being one that reduces their chance to hit ( for guard ! ) but ignores/lowers cover saves.
.... and one that in affect puts the platoon onto overwatch.
Which I was immensely skeptical of, and then I saw that Thunderfire datasheet.
Another poster who will remain anonymous heard that orders are given by Officers to a squad (note not the whole Platoon) within command radius or via Vox channel. Orders generally make a squad do something such as make them better shots, rally, or recover from things like pinning or gone to ground. These orders are not automatic and will probably require a Ld test. Orders will be one or maybe two orders per officer per turn.
Platoons have been rumoured to have a great number of options available to them including attaching various support vehicles like sentinels, hellhounds and demolishers. They still take up a FOC spot, but become part of the platoon and so will benefit from the Platoon Drill rule.
Doctrines have supposedly been replaced by Platoons with more options, so for example, rather than Armoured fist squads a player would buy Chimeras for a whole platoon, or buy the whole platoon grav-chutes to give them deep strike, or drop the heavy weapons from squads and give the platoon Scout. This system would allow “crusade” style armies of multiple regiments.
Another rumour says that there will be multiple flavours of Platoon with varying rules and options, such as Heavy Platoons, the squads will have the option of taking up to three heavy weapons teams; Assault Platoons, able to take up to three assault weapons; Stealth Platoons possibly able to infiltrate. It is not clear if this was based on a proper rumour or mutant wishlisting.
There has been much talk about a point decrease to 4points per Guardsman. This has also been rumoured to be 50 point Infantry squads (10 men with Sgt, Heavy Bolter & Flamer).
Kill Points have supposedly been sorted out. The example given to me was a platoon Command Squad and 4 Guardsmen Squads will surrender one kill point if you lose half the platoon (eg - Command Squad & two Guard Squads). You then surrender another kill point if the Platoon is wiped out. So instead of being five KP worth, that platoon is worth two.
Conscript will supposedly be a Troops choice much like Daemon in the Chaos Marine Dex in that they do not take up a FOC slot. They will supposedly come with a command squad mad up of a Commissar and three teams of Heavy Bolters. The concept is that if the Conscripts break, the Heavy Bolter team guns them down each one killed gives +1 to their Ld up to a max of 10. They are supposedly also Fearless until the Commissar and HW team have been killed.
On the other hand, some rumours say conscripts will disappear altogether, or remain only as “naked” Platoons.
Different kinds of Sentinel will be available for both FA and HS slots, with the slot determining the weapon and upgrade options, as well as special rules. FA Sentinals will retain Scout, but only be open topped, whereas HS ones will lose Scout, but will be enclosed and have options for heavy weapons such as the Plasma Cannon.
The chimera seems to have been given new stats and undefined special rules in Forge World’s IA2 update. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/pdf/ia2-update.pdf This could be an indication of what is to come.
The Valkyrie will be included, possibly as a transport for Stormtroopers, but will most likely be a skimmer (possibly fast) and is rumoured to allow embarked troops to deploy after deep striking. Another rumour says they will be able to DS more accurately like Drop Pods.
Ogryns have been rumoured to be T5 with a 4+ save and Feel No Pain.
There are rumoured to be 21 “variants” of tank in the new Codex. It is unclear what exactly constitutes a variant though. It has been rumoured that at least one old style of artillary tank, possibly the Griffon, will make a return.
It is also rumoured that IG tanks will get a special rule allowing them to fire sponson weapons as though they were Defensive weapons. Opinion is still up in the air on the veracity of this one.
The Leman Russ can be bought as a squadron so you can get 3 for a single FOC. It is also rumoured to get a drop in front armour to 13.
The Hellhound is supposedly bought in squadrons of 3 (this could mean up to 3), and they can combine there firepower but will sacrifice a turn of shooting like dire avengers do. They will subsequently suffer +1 to any damage results during their reload turn. It has also been rumoured to have three variants, although no further details have emerged about this.
It has been pretty much universally stated that the Baneblade is NOT in the new codex.
Minis
First Wave rumoured to be as follows (US$):
IG Codex $25
IG Primaris Psyker $15
IG Ratling Snipers $20
IG Sentinel $25
IG Cadian Command Squad $25
IG Catachan Command Squad $25
IG Valkyrie $50
IG Cadian Shock Troops $22
IG Catachan Jungle Fighters $22
The green of the Commissar Lord can be seen here:
http://warseer.com/forums/attachment...7&d=1214001137
New Ratlings have supposedly been spotted and have cloaks and hoods.
The new Sentinel box is rumoured to have all Heavy Weapon options including at least a Plasma Cannon, as well as the Armoured Crew Compartment bits in the box.
The contents of the Command Squads apparently includes an underarm swagger stick Drill Instructor style. It is not clear which one has this, but most likely it will be the Cadian one.
Some say the Valkyrie will include bits to make a Vulture as well. This is far from confirmed and could just be wish-listing repeated as rumour. A CAD picture of the interior can be seen here:
http://warseer.com/forums/attachment...8&d=1214001168
The Cadian and Catachan Boxes are most likely 10 man sets with a heavy weapon included. Nothing has been said about whether the box will include multiple heavy weapon options, or if individual heavy weapons sets will be withdrawn. The Catachans are rumoured to be a slight improvement in sculpt more in line with the recent Heavy Weapons team than their original incarnation.
Plastic Roughriders in the Cadian style have been rumoured. Little has been said about these, so they would be 2nd wave at the very least.
CAD drawings of some tanks have been spotted but it is not clear if these are simply concepts or if they are in production. It has been rumoured that the new Leman Russ kit will allow plastic demolishers and a 3rd variant, another rumour saying 5 (standard, demolisher, conqueror, exterminator, and the new variant). It is also rumoured that Chimeras and Hellhounds will share a kit.
They don’t seem to be included in the first wave either way.
A WIP Stormtrooper with shotgun (assumed to be Plastic) has been seen. It is unclear when or if this will be released but it doesn't appear to be in the first wave. They are supposedly 10 models to a box from £12-15. No further word on box contents. WIP can be seen here:
http://warseer.com/forums/attachment...4&d=1232629639
There have been rumours of Greatcoat plastics for some time, but these have been consistently shot down by those “in the know”. It seems quite a few GW managers are reporting that plastic Greatcoats are in the pipeline, possibly even as soon as 2nd wave. They will supposedly make Steel Legion, Kreig, and/or Valhallans, which some people believe to be a sign the rumour is untrue, as the look of those regiments would need to be drastically altered to create them all from one kit.
Regardless of whether or not they are being developed, it is safe to say they will not be seen during the initial release.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Nice list.
Would not like if the front armor of russes drop to 13. 
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Post by: HaLLuCiNaTiOn
Thanks for the compilation! Or at least copy/pasting it.
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Post by: foil7102
Second that av13 Russ's would suck unless they really dropped the price down.
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Post by: KMKhaine
If Russ' drop to 13, and got cheaper, and you are able to get 3/H spot. I could live with it...
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Post by: livingregret
Good to see a updated list...let us see how long till we can wish list this one into oblivion as well.....
I WILL START!!!
Just kidding..not much to say. The idea of different types of Platoons getting different abilities sounds very vague. Assault Platoon, Troop Platoon, heavy Platoon, happy sunshine platoon? Kinda weird and that would mean the Imperial Guard book will be PACKED w/ special rules which goes somewhat away from GW's recent go at "Streamlining" all of the armies
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Post by: Necros
I like the idear of stormtrooper troops the most. and the valkyrie too. Out of all the new stuff I will probably be getting 2 of them, 1 for each stormtrooper squad I have. I also read on Boot Camp that the vulture will be included and count as a fast attack choice.. or was it elites? I forget... but they were calling it a "gunship version".. here's what Mkoll said over there when I asked
As to the Vulture it is called that in the print but it is a Valk with more and bigger guns modelwise. Although the Forgeworld one didn't have huge differences.
I have a feeling if they do have both in 1 kit, both will have the 2 jets instead of the one big one that the FW vulture has but that will prolly be the only real difference
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Post by: BrookM
Different tailbooms, different nose section, different wings, everything is different between the FW Valkyrie and Vulture, the only parts they really share are the canopies, crew section and landing gear.
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Post by: livingregret
Totally off topic...but every time I read your Sig BrookM I want to know what those phrases are that upon muttering we should shoot to kill.....
Back on Topic...yes the new Valk will in no way replace the FW one. Completely different models and uses in battle.
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Post by: CapNCaveman!
Dropping the Russ front armor seems to fall right in line with the rest of GW's bone headed decisions as of late...god how i both love and HATE this game at the same time...
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Post by: Dexy
13 AV would be terrible...
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Post by: livingregret
it would be terrible...unless they get a price drop and you can take them in groups of 3 for one choice....which is also what the rumors suggest
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Post by: Dave47
These rumors reads more like a wish list than an actual coherent set of proposals. Several of the ideas (raising defensive weapons to Str. 5, Overwatch) are things that GW has used in the past, and have very visibly moved away from.
I'm sure some of this stuff will make it into the Codex, but it's such a mess of ideas that I'm not sure what to think of it.
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Post by: Clthomps
the links on warseer are broken. does anyone have the pics saved?
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Post by: ShumaGorath
I'll be happy as long as the horses never show up again and the ratlings look childlike enough to actually be press ganged children (totally something the guard would do).
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Post by: skkipper
av 13 front would be better if the are going to squadron them. drop the price down by 20 points. if they keep it at 14 it would need a price increase of 20 or so points.
it is undercosted at 140 and av14 and overcosted at 140 and av13
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Post by: Necros
I never liked the ratling idea, I would have rather they just did a regular sniper squad.
If they keep ratlings they have to bring back squats!
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
I think there's a lot of fandex and wishlist buried in that rumor pile, and can't wait for things to clean up!
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Post by: GreyFox555
The warseer links are dead x.x I'd love to see those greens
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Post by: Da Blak Gobbo
I'm still holding out for those plastic greatcoats even though it seems highly unlikely. A few of these contradict each other but all in all don't look to shabby. Stormtrooper troops and squads of tanks could definitely work in the long run.
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Post by: Moopy
Thank for the recap thread. I really don't like sorting through the millions of posts in the others hoping to find something new. Generally there is nothing.
None of the Warseer picture links are working.
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Post by: sexiest_hero
"The concept is that if the Conscripts break, the Heavy Bolter team guns them down each one killed gives +1 to their Ld up to a max of 10. They are supposedly also Fearless until the Commissar and HW team have been killed."
If they are fearless why do the heavy bolter have the gun down rule....
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Post by: livingregret
Good question Sexiest...good question indeed. Seems like someone studied to must of Russian military practice during WW2...or watch that stupid Sniper Movie. What was it called? Enemy at the gates?.....
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Post by: Ghost in the Darkness
Why do those links not work?
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Post by: chaplaingrabthar
Looks like the links got abbreviated in the c & p. Let's see if this works
Comissar Lord
Valkyrie CAD
WIP Sormtroopers
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Post by: warboss
i've been following the IG rumors on several different website and it's like a huge game of "phone call" like in grade school were one person reads a story to another person and that person tells another and then that person tells another, etc... i'll see one person basically post what they HOPE is in the codex on one site and the next day it'll appear as a rumor on another. two days later, someone else will post something related that they heard from their local GW redshirt (who is probably just reading the same forums as we are). it's be quite funny if i wasn't actually hoping for real info on the guard codex.
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Post by: Battle Foam
Dead Links, Why?
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Post by: Flachzange
woah that shotgun is HUGE
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Post by: grizgrin
This Leman Russ SQuadron concept has been grist for the mill for quite a while. I am curious as to whether anyone has heard if it will be an 0-1 choice in the FOC, or if you can several? I imagine they would be a Heavy Support choice, but could maybe see elite. And I also realize that GW in it's sanity may feel free to put them wherever the heck they want. Point is, if you could take 3 squadrons of AV13 Russ's with 21 mix and match variants, you'd have an Armoured Company that you could fit into most any tourney size game. If you assume a 20 point drop as mentioned by skkipper, then the base cost for these tanks would be 1080 points. Assuming that upgrades stay roughly in the same ballpark as current, then you are looking at maybe 1500 points; depending how you roll.
If there is a concurrent drop in points cost of the Leman Russ (as there reportedly is in the caost of the basic guardsman) you could finally field a solid combined arms force. That would be cool.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
livingregret wrote:it would be terrible...unless they get a price drop and you can take them in groups of 3 for one choice....which is also what the rumors suggest
I still think it would be a terrible idea, though less from a gameplay perspective. I mean, everyone's Leman Russes will become worse, but hey! GW has the solution! BUY MORE! If I have to buy three Russes to get anything out of them, chances are that I'm going to buy zero.
Not to mention the fact that Battlewagons built by a race that can't tell the difference between a rivet and a nut, are suddenly superior armored vehicles. Maybe I should just start a counts-as Orks human army.
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Post by: DaRealJDB
BrookM wrote:Different tailbooms, different nose section, different wings, everything is different between the FW Valkyrie and Vulture
Yeah, seriously. I mean one shoots air-to-air small-damage rockets in salvos of 14 and the other one lays spider mines and doesn't even fly!
...hurr hurr hurr
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Post by: 1hadhq
worst case:
AV 13/12/10 russ in squad.
easier to damage and dead on a 4+ (immobilized). :(
points have to drop to 80 then.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
I don' think we're going to AV13/12/10 Russes - far too close to the 13/11/10 Pred. The extra armor and Ordnance are key to making IG Guntanks different from SM Guntanks.
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Post by: Vaktathi
skkipper wrote:av 13 front would be better if the are going to squadron them. drop the price down by 20 points. if they keep it at 14 it would need a price increase of 20 or so points.
it is undercosted at 140 and av14 and overcosted at 140 and av13
I don't think that's necessarily correct. Squadron'd russ tanks could only fire at one target, have a 33% greater chance to die to penetrating hits, and can be killed by glances (1/6) as under the Squadron rules immobilization is a kill, and assaults against them are likely to be far nastier (if Daemonprince assaults one and gets 3 destroyed results, all 3 russ tanks would die) and would take up points probably better used by other units like Hellhounds and infantry.
Honestly I'd be incredibly surprised at AV13 Russ tanks, the originator of that rumor on Warseer didn't sound like the most credible source, and it's a rather daft downgrade to a tank that already isn't exactly stellar in terms of efficiency for it's cost.
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
Depends entirely on how squadrony they are.
If you can simply take a loose squadron, as in 3 for 1 HS Slot, but operate individually (there is precedent for this in Fantasy, and is also how Platoons work at the moment) then no problem.
Wonder what happened to the rumour that they got to fire all guns regardless of movement? Turned up in a blatant Arsedex, and just sort of stuck around.
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Post by: BrookM
livingregret wrote: Totally off topic...but every time I read your Sig BrookM I want to know what those phrases are that upon muttering we should shoot to kill.....
Back on Topic...yes the new Valk will in no way replace the FW one. Completely different models and uses in battle.
Those would be stupid questions to which we have the answers strewn about in this section of Dakka Dakka.
In all likeliness the plastic Valkyrie will be the same as the current resin version, only a better construction and less frustrating assembly. GW did the same with the Tau Piranha and Sky Ray, they just turned them into plastic kits for less money and they fit together as if the parts are meant to do just that! 
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
SM Vindi mk.2 is also FW-design
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Post by: Reecius
The Russ is in no way undercosted now, its price is comprable to a hammerhead which is far superior.
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Post by: Platuan4th
I'm just wondering what the standard under-wing armament on the Valk is going to be and if the IA Vol. 2 Errata is any indication of points cost/options(if so, then the first question is answered and 125 for a Lascannon/2 Hellstrike skimmer transport isn't too bad)
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Post by: Grimaldi
The chimera link to FW stuff is interesting. I've been playing around with chimeras, and while amusing, they're too expensive to really be worth it. At 55 points, though, it's a lot more reasonable. 10 points for the heavy stubber is nice instead of dealing with all the odd point costs from the current IG list, too.
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Post by: BrookM
It is one of the nicer things of the new army lists, no more odd point values. 
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Post by: Platuan4th
BrookM wrote:It is one of the nicer things of the new army lists, no more odd point values.
Except for those that end in 5. 
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Post by: warpcrafter
If half this stuff is true, I am very interested.
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Post by: MinMax
Oh, man. AV 13 Russes? God, I hope not.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
warpcrafter wrote:If half this stuff is true, I am very interested.
If the *other* half of this stuff is true, I'm selling my Guard army!
(or switching gears to focus on my CSM)...
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Post by: Polonius
I have a lot of hope and faith in GW with regards to the new IG codex. Looking back at their rules from the past 3 years, they've all been pretty solid. The only real duff is Codex: Dark Angels, and that is both the result of beta testing the new marine rules and still a better codex for 5th edition than the current IG. Marines, Orks, Chaos, Blood Angels, and Eldar are all fine codices, 5th edition and Apocalypse are well crafted and fun rules sets, and even Codex: Chaos Daemons is more solidly crafted than we initially though. Going further back Tau is a mess due to 5th edition (but was a well respected codex in it'd day), while of the remaining 4th edition codices only Templars was considered "weak" while Marines and Nids were great books. Even the last 3rd edition book, Witchhunters, has held up amazingly well. That takes us all the way back to the last IG book, which was clearly designed without 4th edition in mind, let alone 5th.
What does this mean? It means that GW has stopped writing the awful codices of the past (Orks, DE 1st edition, the first Chaos book, Daemonhunters) and instead the books are all more capable of holding their own.
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Post by: livingregret
Woah woah woah.......
The Old Ork book was great in the hands of a competent player....but yes I do agree that the last few batches of books have been fairly solid, if missing out on some "fluff" or more "flavourful" units
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
1hadhq wrote:Nice list.
Would not like if the front armor of russes drop to 13.
Funny I was just wsaying the other day that was a good way to go, it would make the Russ more like the Soviet T-34
Not too good, but you can get a lot of them. It would also make the Land Raider more special.
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Post by: livingregret
bah land raider is special enough....the problem is there are SOOO many things that can pop even armour 14. God forbid your fighting a Bright Lance Eldar army...GOOD BYE TANKS
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
livingregret wrote: Good question Sexiest...good question indeed. Seems like someone studied to must of Russian military practice during WW2...or watch that stupid Sniper Movie. What was it called? Enemy at the gates?.....
Yep, Enemy at the Gates. IIRC the 1 rifle for 2 men thing happened, but in WWI not Stalingrad, can`t remember if the commissars shooting their own men was historical or not.
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Post by: Tacobake
This is not very exciting to me, to be honest. What the Guard need are varied and interesting rules. Like Doctrines+. Although hopefully they will be competitive.
They should have done all three Inquisition and Guard at the same time. duh.
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Post by: Dave47
Tacobake wrote:This is not very exciting to me, to be honest. What the Guard need are varied and interesting rules. Like Doctrines+. Although hopefully they will be competitive.
Guard already have varied and interesting rules. They have more options than any other legal codex in 5th Edition. But no one uses those options, because they're not competitive.
Obviously, the ideal situation is to be competitive and varied, but that's a really hard balancing act. In writing the new codex, we should all hope that they choose to make the list competitive.
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Post by: Tacobake
I am looking forward to it. I will probably make my own ruleset once I see the final copy. Not to ... toot my own horn. toot-toot.
The Conscripts thing sounds interesting at least. Last I heard the Guard book would lean heavily towards Red Army WWII. As opposed to say Shermans and special forces.
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Post by: livingregret
Sadly we know that what we consider "competitive" is not what GW strives for. They have stated over and over that they do not look at Tournaments as the end all be all when it comes to there armies...they realize that is really only a very small portion of there fan base. We also are aware that is not 100% true...just look at the hit to skimmers and rending + Troops needed to take objectives in 5th
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Post by: Quintinus
I keep wondering why this AV 13 thing keeps on coming up.
I may be looking in all of the wrong places but I've never seen anything that suggests it.
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Post by: Reecius
if missing out on some "fluff" or more "flavourful" units
I disagree, after Chaos, all of the book shave been bringing back cool old units like weirdboys, conversion beamers, and even the eldar got harlies back. GW is definitely bringing back the old school to an extent, which is awesome in my opinion. I like having tons of options, even if some of them are fun game only stuff. It really bugs me when people cry out to get rid of units like ratlings or ogryns or rough riders. Why? If you dont like them don't use them. Being able to mix things up is good and keeps armies looking and playing different.
I am very excited for the new IG. My favorite army to play and one of my favorite to play against. This codex could be huge for GW if they do it right like Orks.
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Post by: Recklessfable
Vladsimpaler wrote:I keep wondering why this AV 13 thing keeps on coming up.
I may be looking in all of the wrong places but I've never seen anything that suggests it.
Ditto here. I've never seen a SOURCE of this rumor. That being said, if we can actually field nine AV 14 vehicles, even the horrible squadron rules would make Russes pretty broken. It seems logical that only Land Raiders and Battlewagons (and Monoliths) would get AV14 since they are supposed to be huge, while the smaller Russ would get AV13 and be more spamable.
I dunno. I still don't like the idea of Russ squadrons. I hate the idea of vehicles having to maintain coherency and the dead on Immobilized rule.
Let's see... plasma pistols and autocanons would now be a kill-threat to the Russ from the front. That just doesn't roll off the tongue all that well.
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Post by: BrookM
I just hope that they don't skip out on the background section of the book.
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Post by: grizgrin
Yeah, the fluff section. Something else for me to walk around wen I see it laying on the sidewalk.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Kid_Kyoto wrote:1hadhq wrote:Nice list.
Would not like if the front armor of russes drop to 13.
Funny I was just saying the other day that was a good way to go, it would make the Russ more like the Soviet T-34
Not too good, but you can get a lot of them. It would also make the Land Raider more special.
wait..... good?
Have a WW1-design and not only "cannonfodder"-infantry but also "cannonfodder"-tanks is good ?
Isn't a Land raider special enough: AV rear (against CC attack ) + BS 4 + PotMS + assault ramp + TL-weapons.
Can't see the need to change the russ in stats. Maybe a design change would be good.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:livingregret wrote: Good question Sexiest...good question indeed. Seems like someone studied to must of Russian military practice during WW2...or watch that stupid Sniper Movie. What was it called? Enemy at the gates?.....
Yep, Enemy at the Gates. IIRC the 1 rifle for 2 men thing happened, but in WWI not Stalingrad, can`t remember if the commissars shooting their own men was historical or not.
Commisars shooting their own men could be historical,but shooting commissars if caught is for sure.
I do think if we get "greatcoats" at the price of IG beeing crappy "pseudo-red armists" (aka cannonfodder), some will drop their
IG armys. Makes no sense to build and paint payloads of models to get "victims" or "fire-magnets" on the table.
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Post by: Psi
catachan & cadian troop kits being rumored to sell for $22.00
Hmmm, Guess I need to set my Orks to the side and figure out if I want to build an I.G. army. If so, then it's time to horde up on the current boxes of like 16 guard for $35.00.
While I like the idea of a complete ten man squad in a box for cheap. When put in the context of a horde army like my Orks and the Imperial Guard. Damn, it get's expensive quick.
459
Post by: Hellfury
Well lets see.
If the new IG boxes are anything like the eldar guardian or ork boyz boxes, this may turn out to be a better deal than the eldar or ork boxes are.
Box of 20 cadians is $35
2 cadian heavy weapons teams are $26
So...$61 for two squads worth of models.
$22 for a single IG squad that has all the models needed to make it doesnt seem like such a bad price any more, especially if the british pound is still pants when they are released. Then it will be an IG army for cheap as chips.
10123
Post by: BoxANT
If they drop the LRBT AV to 13, allow us to take them in squads of 3 and drop their price to ~100, then I can see it being worth it. Make it so they can fire their sponsons on the move and we're golden.
But I reallllly hope that even if they drop LRBT to 13/12/10 they leave my LR Demolisher at 14/13/11
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Post by: Leggy
Has anyone ever seen a source for the squadrons of russ, or is it just another wishlist thats done the rounds a million times as a rumour?
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Post by: Hammerziet
I hope it is just a wishlist, I just don't have enough anti tank to deal with all those russes.
9598
Post by: Quintinus
BoxANT wrote:If they drop the LRBT AV to 13, allow us to take them in squads of 3 and drop their price to ~100, then I can see it being worth it. Make it so they can fire their sponsons on the move and we're golden.
But I reallllly hope that even if they drop LRBT to 13/12/10 they leave my LR Demolisher at 14/13/11
They're not going to drop the AV of the Russ. There's never even been a slight hint that it will be.
Everyone can calm down now.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Update: Feb / 09
IG:
-plastic valkyrie = confirmed
-plastic stormtroopers = confirmed
-recut plastic hellhound = confirmed
-1-3 tanks as heavy support choice = confirmed
-new tanks = confirmed
possible:
- ap 3 hellguns
-different weapons for the hellound
-Inquisitor lord as HQ
-1-3 hellhounds as Fast assault choice
Valks,hellhound and stormtroopers beeing 2nd wave release. (maybe july/august).
reliable GW source.
320
Post by: Platuan4th
1hadhq wrote:Valks,hellhound and stormtroopers beeing 2nd wave release. (maybe july/august).
reliable GW source.
Seems good and reliable, but we already know the Valk is Wave 1, NOT Wave 2...
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Post by: 1hadhq
Lets see.....may....july/august.......seems close enough to me.
But i don't complain if we get valks in may. 
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Sounds good to me! 
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Post by: Platuan4th
1hadhq wrote:Lets see.....may....july/august.......seems close enough to me.
But i don't complain if we get valks in may.
Check first page, they're on the schedule for first week of Guard release.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Platuan4th wrote:1hadhq wrote:Lets see.....may....july/august.......seems close enough to me. But i don't complain if we get valks in may.
Check first page, they're on the schedule for first week of Guard release.
nice, but "rumored" release schedule gathered on different sources. Source of Mine is "internal" so maybe he know a more exact date. Plus has no reason to misguide me.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
AP3 hellguns?
Wow they're just handing out AP3 like candy now.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
OK, "intern" (temp worker) or "internal" (inside)?
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Post by: 1hadhq
JohnHwangDD wrote:OK, "intern" (temp worker) or "internal" (inside)?
Inside.
Things noted as "possible" are exactly that.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Thanks!
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Post by: BrookM
Valkyries were for the most part hinted at as being a major release incentive for Planet Strike, much like the Baneblade for Apocalypse.
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Post by: Necros
Just saw this over on Boot Camp, kinda a quickie army list listing
HQ
command platoon: senior officer and four vets.can also buy astropath, naval & artillery adjudant or bodyguard,
regimental advisors. up to four of these in any combo: lord commisar, ministorum priest, primaris psyker, mechanicus adept.
elites ogryns three to ten of them.
ratlings, three to ten.
storm troopers, five to ten.
sanctioned psykers. overseer and five to ten psykers.
troops.
infantry platoon (1 hq, 2-5 squads, 0-1 commisar)
veterans. can be either grenadiers (carapace), reconnaisance (camo cloaks) or demol (melta bombs)
penal legionaires. overseer and 9 leigionairres.
fast attack.
scout sentinels
spearhead sentinels,
valkyrie
vendetta
rough riders (same prise as an infantry squad (!?!?!)
hellhound squadron.
heavy support.
leman russ squadron
hydra squadron
heavy weapons platoon
artillery squadron.
http://z4.invisionfree.com/Boot_Camp/index.php?showtopic=10293&st=64
Dunno what a spearhead sentinel or vendetta is.. maybe the vendetta is the gunship valkyrie..?
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Post by: BrookM
Spearhead sentinels are most like Sentinels lacking the scout special rule and instead carry heavier weapons. Vendetta is a silly name in comparison to the other vehicles IMHO.
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Post by: Apone
The vulture? Hhhmm could be a new tank as we've had rumoured lots of tanks in the book.
Nice find Necros, thanks.
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Post by: Platuan4th
BrookM wrote:Spearhead sentinels are most like Sentinels lacking the scout special rule and instead carry heavier weapons. Vendetta is a silly name in comparison to the other vehicles IMHO.
So somat like Forge World's Support Sentinels with Missile Launcher or Rocket Pod?
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Post by: Quintinus
Kid_Kyoto wrote:AP3 hellguns?
Wow they're just handing out AP3 like candy now.
It's supposedly like a 'hot shot' thing, like Bladestorm for Dire Avengers.
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Post by: Death By Monkeys
OH YEAH! Hydra Squadron! DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA!! Some of my all-time favorite Forgeworld models. I can't let myself get my hopes up that GW will cut some plastics for the models, though.
46
Post by: alarmingrick
"reliable GW source."
since when did they start having those?!?!?! (and yes, )
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Post by: Illeix
Wait, I think I see a possibility here...
Maybe GW is trying to merge all the types of guardsmen into the platoon.
Want cheap conscripts, leave 'em naked.
Grenadiers, upgrade to vets w/carapace
Heavy weapon squad, upgrade them Dev style
and so on...
I'd really like this, but the platoon structure leaves me wary. I don't want to be stuck with 55 squishy troops minimum. 40 is a good core I think, hopefully we keep the armored fist-like alternative to two platoons...
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Nice find! Let's look at the changes:
HQ
Command Squad is SO and Vets, losing JO, upgraded from Guardsmen
- Astropath, Naval & Artillery are walking weapons???
- bodyguard is hopefully a "pet" Ogryn
Regimental Advisors: Lord Commisar, Ministorum Priest, Primaris Psyker, Mechanicus Adept should be interesting for their effects. Hopefully, the points make sense.
Elites
Ogryns - now, we just need to confirm T5 and reasonable points!
Ratlings - nice to have variable size
Sanctioned Psykers - excellent thematic (and surprising) choice for an Elite!
Stormtroopers - hopefully won't suck, and be available as Troops via some Advisor
Troops
Infantry platoon - not much change aside from making Commissar available as a Platoon option
Veterans - assume this is the rumored per-Platoon squad upgrade
Grenadiers (carapace), Recon (camo) or Demol (melta bombs) - interesting split, hope we have Mech & Drop as options
Penal legionaires - Oh, I *really* want to see the rules here!
Fast
Scout vs "Spearhead" Sentinels - assume this is the standard vs FW / Heavy Weapons? OK.
Valkyrie - Yay! Let's see if this is priced fairly. And available as dedicated Stormtrooper Transport.
Vendetta - I assume this is a Gunship / Razorback version of the Valkyrie.
Rough Riders - I wonder if these will retain current options (they should).
Hellhound squadron - burn, baby, burn!!
Heavy
Russ squadron - as predicted; assume Exterminator is here, too. But if Demolisher drops to 14/12/10, that'll really suck.
Hydra squadron - surprising, but cool
Heavy Weapons Platoon - I'm very surprised to see this stay!
Artillery squadron - assume Griffon adds to the Basilisk. This is a no-brainer, as you get Barrage effect even in normal 40k. I predict we'll see one of these in every army.
Overall, with the increased squadroning, we are going to see a lot more stuff that can fit in a single FOC.
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Post by: livingregret
Well it was just a little while ago when everyone was going crazy waiting for more rumors.....and everyone kept being told "Just wait to the start of February...that's when the rumors will start flowing"...
AND LOOK AT THIS NOW!! OH YEAH!!!!
Seriously some fantastic rumors and I hope to see a lot more information soon. I'd really like to know if Mechanized is still an option and if so, how it will work.
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Post by: Leggy
So has the Techpriest enginseer been reduced to a command squad tag-along? Shame, as they truely are beautiful models. The new command squad plastics will have to be quite amazing to not be overshadowed
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Post by: Railguns
I'm assuming that Vendetta is a play on how a group of ravens is called a murder. Looking good though.
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Post by: Platuan4th
livingregret wrote: Seriously some fantastic rumors and I hope to see a lot more information soon. I'd really like to know if Mechanized is still an option and if so, how it will work.
I'm sure it'll stay and is most likely just that every squad in a platoon, not just the Command, can purchase a Chimera. Easy solution and easy to implement, really.
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Post by: BoxANT
Now these are some rumors that can get me excited 
Hopefully ST will be IG Sternguardlite ( AP 3 hellguns, even if it is only once a game, will still be great).
Some of those flavor units (penal squads, psyker squads, ect) have great potential to add a lot of spice to IG. But only if they have the rules and point values to keep them usable... Lets hope.
It will be interesting to see if they move IG to having more squadrons of vehicles. Either they are just doing it so we can play IG in larger games with 1 FOC... or perhaps they are going to balance them so that we can actually take squadrons in normal sized games and have them not be completely overpowered. Interesting.
My hopes for a good IG codex are growing.
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Post by: Recklessfable
Kid_Kyoto wrote:AP3 hellguns?
Wow they're just handing out AP3 like candy now.
Why not, since everyone gets 4+ cover saves?
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Post by: livingregret
Recklessfable wrote:
Why not, since everyone gets 4+ cover saves?
SHAZAAM! Seriously though I completely agree, we need something better than just Plasmaguns that kill us horribly, and tanks that blow up horribly.
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Post by: Illeix
There's also the meltagun with too short of range and the missile launcher that's just a wee too expencive.
If GL kraks were only Ap3 they'd be in every guard army...
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Post by: Reecius
all IG heavy weapons are a lot too expensive. They all need to come down in price.
These rumors look really cool. I am very excited to get my hands on this new dex, I just wish it would come out faster!
AP3 Hellguns, awesome. Even if its just once per game and it has gets hot, it is still super cool. Pop out of a valkyrie and unload on some marines. It still wouldn't be devastating as they are only str3.
And Hydras? I wonder why? Maybe just to use them as two twin linked autocannons. But then you would think that a Russ exterminator would do nearly the same thing as do it cheaper....unless it is tied into something with planetstrike?
The only things that bums me out is new hellhounds with different weapons as I already have three painted! Oh well, I can always bitz order new turret weapons if needs be.
Hmm, this is some good rumor stew.
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Post by: livingregret
Indeed...as exciting as all of this seems, I still hold off any real judgment until we see the real deal/or something close to it
A large problem is the fact that all our decent/good weapons are, normally, overpriced. So here is hoping they do indeed come down in price some.
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Post by: Dave47
AP 3 Stormtroopers and Hydras kill the credibility of this source. Hydras are great, but belong in Apocalypse. Standard 40k doesn't really have any true flying units, so why do you need AA guns?
And AP 3 Hellguns are just silly.
But honestly, who knows? If you told me a week ago about IG getting fast skimmers, I would have said you were crazy. But everyone seems to say the Valkyrie is definitley going to be in the Codex.
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Post by: reds8n
I think the AP3 hellguns sound very plausible.
Told ya the stormtroopers would be a good choice.
I'm thinking then with the "new" greens we saw being equipped with shotguns there will presumably be a choice between the anti MEQ hellgun armed ones and the assault shotgun armed ones. Which is sensible-- no human would ever want to assault any marine really would they ?
I wouldn't be surprised if the HQ choice might maybe have some option for a/some stormtroopers as a troops choice-- perhaps in a similar fashion to the marine captain taking a bike perhaps ?
Perhaps the penal guys might become scoring under another/different selection too ?
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Post by: T_55
In before the screams of cheese. If ap3 is true i'll always be able to say i took storm troopers before they got updated.
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Post by: Cruentus
Cheese? You mean like Thousand Sons? Sternguard? AP3 on a T3, 4+ save model, with an S3 gun probably isn't too bad.
I'm just saddened that AP3 was the best they could come up with. Seems like AP3 has replaced Rending as the "fix" for units in 5e. Maybe the design team is out of ideas.
Stormtroopers will need to be really good so everyone buys the new kit. Unfortunately, it won't help my Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (I run an all Trooper DH list) at all.
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Post by: BrookM
The inclusion of the Hydra is somewhat odd, though this could be a cheap tie-in to Planet Strike.
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Post by: aka_mythos
The hydra would be a cool addition. With planetstrike now being rumored (w/salt) as the next release after IG, it seems to me that the Hydra would be that much more worth while. We also don't know if they might adjust its rules, make it extra killy against skimmers.
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Post by: Nuclear Mekanik
If you could take Hydras in CoD and use them to take the top floor off buildings instead of shooting planes, that would be cool. 
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Post by: Necros
I could see them doing ap3 hellguns because if they're making a new plastic kit they need insane rules to make people buy it. Like how you could suddenly have 6 carnifexes when that new plastic kit came out, or 87 stegadons in a lizardman army.
The Hydra could happen too. maybe it will have special rules since it's always been a AA gun maybe in normal games it will do something to mess up skimmers? Like the stormtroopers if they release that, expect it to have special rules to make you feel like you need to buy 20 of them
I like how HW platoons are still in. In the current dex they take the place of a precious tank, but if you can squadronize your tanks, you will have plenty of force org slots for other more flavorful things like this. It seems like what they are going for is a whole ton of options, to really reflect how diverse the imperial guard are. You can go armor heavy, or troop heavy, or a good mix of both and still have a tough army.
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Post by: livingregret
The Hydra could also be released when PlanetStrike is released and why should there be call about cheese here? The amount of crazy things that other armies can do is staggering...we have 5 man suicide drop and pop teams. Yippie.
Look...Imperial Guard is a shooting army. Why shouldn't my "Elite", heavily trained and armoured soliders...actually be elite and heavy armoured w/ weapons to drop actual threats?
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Post by: BrookM
Maybe storm troopers will get to fiddle with the power settings of their weapons a bit to amp it up a bit.
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Post by: Platuan4th
Dave47 wrote:Hydras are great, but belong in Apocalypse. Standard 40k doesn't really have any true flying units, so why do you need AA guns?
When introduced by Forge World and before it made it into the Tau Codex, the Skyray was an AA tank, too. I fear that if the Hydra is in the Guard Codex, it too will lose AA as standard.
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Post by: Narlix
Honestly I love the concept of the hydra, my main problem with it has always been cost
2 twin linked auto cannons and a heavy bolter on a 12/10/10 platform is not 200 points of tank. a vast majority of its cost comes from the AA mount and the long barrels.
A tank in normal 40k just dosen't need either.
So my guess would be an anti infantry version of the Hydra. They will drop the AA mount ( no flyers in 40k reg) they will drop the long barrels( no rules in for them in 40k reg) and keep every thing else the same. Since its in the heavy support slots ( i.e giving up pie plates) its going to have to get a slight points reduction to make up for it. if i was a Gambling man I would put base cost at 65 point ( 10 to 20 points more than the new chimera) since they have comparable fire power ( 9 shots ( with 10 point stubber) compared to 4 twinlinked 3 non-twinlinked) I also would not be surprised to see it not have pintel mounted weapon options ( no storm bolter or heavy stubber) or if it does they will pay a premium for it.
Im honestly a little surprised they would put them into heavy support, I think Elites would have been a slightly better fit and they would see the table a little more. im also surprised at the lack of mention of the Salamander in the new book considering it shows up a huge amount in the fluff and novels, but once again I think they would have to do a huge amount of points tinkering with it , 100 some points just isn't going to fly for a fast open top chimera.
My GUT feeling though is the hydra squadron being a wish list item that is being past off as rumors.
the ap3 hells I think are true, makes way to much sense and has been standard since the chaos book.
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Post by: Scottywan82
I crapped myself with joy at some of the confirmed rumors. Pictures!! We NEED pictures!!
And of course, the crazy Storm Trooper rumors are cool, but I too will be telling people that I had storm troopers before storm troopers had AP3.
TOTALLY want a hydra squadron. My favorite IG tank design.
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Post by: Leggy
I'm just babbling/wishlisting, but if Hydras had a rule called AA mounts, that allowed them to ignore or reduce in effectiveness the coversave for fast skimmers moving flat out, they would be a competitive choice against a number of armies. Then simply extend the skimmer moving fast rule to all flyers in planetstrike.
But thats just me brainstorming.
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Post by: ubermosher
Very interesting rumors, and very plausible if not (or because they're) vague.
Was hoping to see the Salamander included though.
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Post by: Savnock
Necros wrote:The Hydra could happen too. maybe it will have special rules since it's always been a AA gun maybe in normal games it will do something to mess up skimmers? Like the stormtroopers if they release that, expect it to have special rules to make you feel like you need to buy 20 of them
Hydras _already_ mess up skimmers. Autocannons are the bane of mechdar as-is, and two twin-linked ACs will really ruin the Eldar's collective day, no new rules needed.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
AP3 Lasguns?
10 dudes double-tap MEQs for 20 shots, BS4 hit >13, S3 vs T4 is 4 or 5 wounds & kills. 20 shots is >3 Hot!, <2 fail. Net trade? Gain 67 VPs for 17 VPs, so net +50 VPs for paying 100+ pts doing what the unit does best?
I don't think non-Scoring Storms are moving to tier 1 with AP3 Lasguns.
I think it's still better to pay a few more points and just drop pie on the MEQs.
Besides, we still have the option for WH / DH Storms which are Scoring, and likely cheaper.
Hydras?
Yeah, I suspect that Hydras will negate SMF saves, similar to Eldar Dark Reapers. It's the only bonus rule that would make a Hydra worth a Heavy Slot.
But even then the utility is kind of low in regular 40k, as Mech Tau / Eldar aren't exactly dominating things right now. Still, it's a nice option, and I sure hope it's costed right.
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Post by: Platuan4th
Leggy wrote:Then simply extend the skimmer moving fast rule to all flyers in planetstrike.
This rule is already in Apocalypse.
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Post by: Janthkin
Platuan4th wrote:Leggy wrote:Then simply extend the skimmer moving fast rule to all flyers in planetstrike.
This rule is already in Apocalypse.
And on top of the 6's to hit with non- AA weapons.
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Post by: Platuan4th
Janthkin wrote:Platuan4th wrote:Leggy wrote:Then simply extend the skimmer moving fast rule to all flyers in planetstrike.
This rule is already in Apocalypse.
And on top of the 6's to hit with non- AA weapons.
Flyers have had that since the Forge World rules.
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Post by: Janthkin
Platuan4th wrote:Janthkin wrote:Platuan4th wrote:Leggy wrote:Then simply extend the skimmer moving fast rule to all flyers in planetstrike.
This rule is already in Apocalypse.
And on top of the 6's to hit with non- AA weapons.
Flyers have had that since the Forge World rules.
I know. I also can't see it going away any time soon, esp. not for Planetstrike. As such, it seems...unlikely, at best, that a) Hydras will be in the IG codex b) cheaper than they are now c) with a rule for negating SMF and d) retaining AA mounts.
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Post by: Wehrkind
I rather agree with John about AP3 hellguns. Even if they were standard, at Str3 they wouldn't be too killer, and couldn't score.
However, my guess is that they will have variable fire settings, maybe a standard 24" rapid fire like now, and a 12" Assault 1 AP3 shot. Variable fire methods seems to be a pretty popular thing nowadays.
Either way though, it would be a nice touch to differentiate them from Grenadiers.
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Post by: aka_mythos
I think it'll be good to see stormtroopers that are worth more than just their special weapons. Ultimately it'll come down to what we have to pay for a squad.
Hydra if included we'll be treated as anti-air artillery. This was an older rumor, but a while ago when someone asked the guy writing the codex about it, the response was that within the codex he'd represent infantry, armor, and artillery. So I think it does fit in keeping with whats been said.
I'm really surprised by the volume we've heard so far. It really gives you a sense of how much will be in the codex and how much different it will be overall. Its a sad day to be a xenos.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
aka_mythos wrote:I think it'll be good to see stormtroopers that are worth more than just their special weapons. Ultimately it'll come down to what we have to pay for a squad.
Its a sad day to be a xenos.
As long as GW prices Storms at 10 pts, they can't be worth more than their Specials. Storms would be OK if: - 8 pts if Scoring - 9 pts Troops with Deep Strike - 10 pts Troops with Deep Strike and improved gun But as-is? They're worth a maximum of 7 pts. As for being Xenos, Orks are doing fine, and I think we'll see a good Necron Codex next year, with a good Eldar book after that.
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Post by: Scottywan82
aka_mythos wrote:I'm really surprised by the volume we've heard so far. It really gives you a sense of how much will be in the codex and how much different it will be overall. Its a sad day to be a xenos.
About damn time.
It sucks being a regular unmodified human.
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Post by: Agamemnon2
JohnHwangDD wrote:As for being Xenos, Orks are doing fine, and I think we'll see a good Necron Codex next year, with a good Eldar book after that.
But first, a really crappy IG codex, as always... I see no reason to expect GW to change their M.O. re: the army. The IG armylist has always been either weak, boring or both, and I'm not convinced it can be anything else within the narrow frame of reference given by the 40k universe.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Under Apoc rules, missions, and Datasheets, I find the current Guard Codex can be *very* competitive.
It's just very limited in the number of things that work. But make no mistake, those things work extremely well and can make for a somewhat dynamic game.
The problem is that stuff that doesn't work is completely unplayable. For example, if you need to grab an Objective, it is not possible to walk there, nor can you afford to burn 80+, 90+ pts on a Chimera, so you *must* take Drop Troops. Similarly, if you need to flatten stuff, you can take practically unlimited amounts of pie. Or Eversors to paper over any HtH issues.
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Post by: Platuan4th
JohnHwangDD wrote: nor can you afford to burn 80+, 90+ pts on a Chimera
QFT. I've used my Mech Guard in Apoc twice and have felt the cost of all those Chimeras.
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Post by: tonytidus916
Ive heard through the grapevine of improved lasguns
something along the lines of better strength or possibly ap, however I dont have many details or a stat line either so forgive me if it sounds like a wishlist.
Ive also heard of them being able to "go to ground" but without the restriction of no shooting based on how they are trained to fire from a crouched or laying down position in bootcamp or the 40k equivelant.
My two cents
~tony~
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Post by: chaplaingrabthar
tonytidus916 wrote:Ive heard through the grapevine of improved lasguns
something along the lines of better strength or possibly ap, however I dont have many details or a stat line either so forgive me if it sounds like a wishlist.
Pretty sure that's a rumor that cross-pollinated from the alleged beefed up Hellguns
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Post by: Illeix
The lasgun is about at it's maximum power. At most it'll be R24" S3 Ap6 rapid fire.
Any more Ap, and it's a Hellgun, more power and it's an Ork Shoota. Both, a Bolter.
The Hellgun needs to be Ap3 to be really useful and not just a pretty lasgun, otherwise the pricey and hazardous Plasmagun will remain the Guards only real option.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
The Hellgun is fine at S5 AP- RF, too...
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Post by: Illeix
I don't see how being almost as powerful as a Multi-laser is reasonable, but at least the car battery strapped to their shoulders wouldn't just be there for looks...
I think S3 Ap3 makes sence, otherwise give em Bolters or Shotguns with Manstoppers...
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Right now the las gun has 1/18 chance of killing a MEq
1/2 to hit, 1/3 to wound, 1/3 to fail the save=1/18 (5.5%)
A Hellgun is no better, except for the BS4 stormtrooper.
2/3 to hit, 1/3 to wound, 1/3 to fail the save=2/27 (7.1%)
An AP3 Hellgun in the hands of a stormtrooper however
2/3 to hit, 1/3 to wound, 1/1 to fail the save=2/9 (22.2%)
Not overwhelming but certainly passable and worth taking.
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Post by: Scottywan82
I love mathhammer. That would be sweet for STs though. And damn do I want those Hydras to be true...
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Post by: BoxANT
I hope they keep the lasgun the same, S3 ap- is the measuring stick for "normal guns" in 40k, and I get a certain amount of pride by using the "flashlight".
I *really* hope they introduce the "Platoon Drills" that have been rumored. Shooting through units in your own platoon and not giving cover saves, being able to Go to Ground and still shoot, ect... These things could make IG Platoons something besides meatshields and objective grabbers (or at least *better* meat shields and objective grabbers...).
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Right now the las gun has 1/18 chance of killing a MEq
Um, the Lasgun isn't actually supposed to kill anything, so why are you doing math on it?
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Post by: smart_alex
Personally I have heard people always say that IG CAN be competitive but is usually not. If you make it that way many people will call you cheesy. Also, I think the majority of people will agree that IG is just a 3rd tier army. I hope that will be corrected in may. I love thier story and fluff. Just wish they didn't suck so bad.
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Post by: dietrich
I'm just waiting to see what the power build out of IG will be. Drop troop storms, mass tanks, exploding penal legionaires (and by that, I mean convicts who are suicide bombers).
I'm guessing that Ogryns will be ROXXOR! Relatively new minis. Have been bad for awhile. They're due for something rude. Knowing GW, it'll be something way too good. S5, T5, FNP, Eternal Warrior, rending, fleet and scout. For 18 points. And if they buy a commissar for +10 points, he comes with a power weapon and makes the unit Fearless.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Yeah, the problem is that the most competitive current build (Drop Guard spam) is nothing like what the IG is portrayed as in the Fluff.
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Post by: aka_mythos
JohnhWangDD is right. All the viable IG builds are the ones least like the imperial guard, they are exceptions to what should be a standard build. The viable IG builds are the equivalent to a land raider spaming list, one trick ponies that don't reflect on the character of the "army". I'm a little daunted by the fact I'm going to have to have 200+ guardsmen painted up, but that is what they're suppose to be.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
If I had to wager, I'm thinking the new IG will have Mech Platoon and Infantry Platoon, but NO Drop Platoons.
Storms will have Drop, and Grenadiers can buy Drop.
This would help clarify roles immensely:
- Storms & Grenadiers take Objectives
- Mech Platoon & Grenadiers reinforce
- Infantry Platoons hold the line
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