Boot Camp (http://z4.invisionfree.com/Boot_Camp/index.php?showtopic=10293) has its own similar thread on the Consolidated IG Rumor list, but what Dakka hasn’t seen (well, except for the few Dakkaites, like Col. Gravis that I’ve seen post over on Boot Camp) is the response to many of these rumors from a source called Mkoll - confirming and debunking many of these rumors. Folks there take him as legit, so I figured I’d share the wealth here – I’m going to summarize most of what he’s said. His comments were also scattered over 4-5 pages, so I’ve tried to reorganize them in a way that makes more sense. Also, keep in mind that a lot of what he was doing was implying based on models and rules he’d seen – he gave caveats that as the Codex hasn’t been finalized yet, things may still change.

- Command Squad Boxes will include all the special weapons in plastic (1 of each), 3 different officer heads, several different close combat weapons (Swords, Fists etc), various embellishments, 2 suits of officer armor, one more practical one more dressy, and 4 Cadians with a few new/special heads.

- The Stormtrooper greens with the shotguns do not imply that IG Stormtroopers will be getting shotguns, but are instead for WH Arbites-style Stormtroopers.

- Stormtroopers will not be released in the first wave, but instead may be released with an Inquisitor supplement oriented around Planetfall.

- The new Ratlings are nice, the new psykers, not so much.

- Commissars still exist in a capacity different to what they do now. They are allowed to attach to certain squads. However once a Commissar Lord is taken they have more freedom and there can be more of them. They are also cheaper(almost half of what they are now).

- IG Sniper Squads, in addition to getting infiltrate, stealth, rangefinders, and sniper rifles will also get camo cloaks.

- Vet Squads probably won’t be upgrades for platoons.

- While sentinels, chimeras, and hellhounds will be able to attach to platoons as support vehicles, demolishers will not.

- Support Squads are different now and are platoon attachments not command squad attachments.

- Basic squad loadout will be 10 Lasguns or 9 Lasguns and a Laspistol for 40 points.

- Platoon Drill will require a vox network.

- Some squads will have access to heavy flamers.

- New Catachan plastics will have scaled down arms.

- No greatcoat plastics.

- Ogryns will be T5, 4+ save, and FNP for the same price they are now.

- Ogryns have no new models. At least not yet. The newish ones are current.

- Some, but not all, tanks will be able to fire sponson weapons as Defensive weapons.

- Cadian Rough Riders will be in the 1.5 wave.

- Leman Russ boxes will include parts to make LRBT, Demolisher, Vanquisher, and Exterminator.

- Chimera boxes will have parts for 3 other variants (including Hellhound). The Chimera will have 6 variants (though some of these sound like they’re just different Chimera weapon options).

- Basilisk boxes may come with parts for Medusas and Griffons.

- While you’ll be able to field more armor, you won’t be able to field an armored company as part of the regular codex.

- And while you’ll be able to field more tanks, the true strength will be the numbers of guardsmen you can field. 110 Points for 25 Guardsmen with nothing but flashlights.

- The Valkyrie will be different from the FW version, but not any huge difference.

- A Spearhead Sentinel is one that is equipped with heavier weapons and meant to be the spearhead of an attacking force. It lacks Scout moves or the like but has slightly better front armor and several variant weapons.

Fragging-A man!

Though some of these changes are kinda big, I am liking the idea of making the vox caster more useful to the Guard. I just hope that platoons will allow for multiple support squads, not one per platoon. I've got four heavy weapon support squads in my army now and I don't really feel like building a fourth platoon just to field them all.

Thanks for the roundup, very nicely done.

The new Ratlings are nice, the new psykers, not so much.

Did he indicate whether that was models or rules?

He did not - I wondered that myself when I read it.

- Ogryns will be T5, 4+ save, and FNP for the same price they are now.

screw the rest of the new stuff, this is what i like to see, amazing models actually being made better since they were junk
also, thanks for updates here, and im sure the ogryns will please alot of people, as will the rats

Nice! I'm really liking the sound of the new Codex!

AWESOME about the Ogryns.

DOUBLE awesome about Cadian Rough Riders! About damn time, really.

I'm more excited for Planetfall than the initial Guard release.

So we do get the exterminator/vanquisher/griffon back plus the medusa/salamander/conqueror/destroyer?

- New Catachan plastics will have scaled down arms.

Heh.

1hadhq wrote:So we do get the exterminator/vanquisher/griffon back plus the medusa/salamander/conqueror/destroyer?

I would pee myself with joy.

This is all extremely encouraging, especially about the Ogryns and spearhead sentinels. I also heard some rumors about the Leman Russ being available in squadrons, but the front armor being reduced to 13. That sounds somewhat extreme, but if it were true, it would be in character with the Guard being more about numbers than individual quality. This would be my third horde army, and with War of the Ring coming up, I just may have to make a hard choice.

I'll still be throwing away the horses and using bikes instead. Cadians riding horses isn't right.

If even half of these are true, I'd be a happy camper. Medusas and Griffons are already present in my army, and the Ogryn rumor just keeps getting stronger, this time being the first that has any mention of the points cost included.

Indeed some great sounding stuff here...I am very curious as to when wave 1.5 might me and what the Cadian Rough Riders will look like....horses is idiotic for cadians so maybe I still have to do bikes

40 points squads(if true) plus 55 point Chimeras will make my Mech guard very happy(and larger).

Well he says you can't do all Mechanized yet you can take Chimera's w/ your platoons...so unless your elites can not take them, I am failing to see why you can't be all mech.

Unless your HQ can't take any transports...

livingregret wrote: Well he says you can't do all Mechanized yet you can take Chimera's w/ your platoons...so unless your elites can not take them, I am failing to see why you can't be all mech.

Unless your HQ can't take any transports...

No, he says you can't do Armored Company(Battle Tank company). He never says you can't do Mechanised nor says the amount of Chimeras you take as "support vehicles". I would be very surprised if you can't run Mech Infantry without resorting to loaning out other squads' Dedicated Chimeras.

warpcrafter wrote:This is all extremely encouraging, especially about the Ogryns and spearhead sentinels. I also heard some rumors about the Leman Russ being available in squadrons, but the front armor being reduced to 13. That sounds somewhat extreme, but if it were true, it would be in character with the Guard being more about numbers than individual quality.

While Mkoll addressed the front armor reduction to 13 and the LR squadron question, his answer was pretty ambiguous. His answer could be either taken as yes on squadrons and no on armor being reduced, or yes on armor being reduced and no on squadrons. And considering some comments he made later about being able to field more armor, I'm inclined to believe that he meant the yes on squadrons, no on armor reduction.

livingegret wrote:Indeed some great sounding stuff here...I am very curious as to when wave 1.5 might me and what the Cadian Rough Riders will look like....horses is idiotic for cadians so maybe I still have to do bikes

Mkoll talked about how Planetfall was bunging up the current "wave" M.O. that GW's been using lately - I'm inclined to believe that 1.5 will be a set of IG releases around the release of Planetfall.

livingegret wrote:Well he says you can't do all Mechanized yet you can take Chimera's w/ your platoons...so unless your elites can not take them, I am failing to see why you can't be all mech.

He didn't say that all Mechanized wasn't possible - he said that Armored Company wouldn't be possible under the regular codex. Mechanized means you've still got troops in Chimeras, while Armored Company means there's a potential for all vehicles. From Mkoll's comments, it sounds like Mechanized will still be possible, just no all-tank armies.

Doh! Platuan4th beat me to it!

New guard are sounding class.

I'm really gona have to get an army started.

The new catachan arms sound good, it might be possible to mix em with other kits now without them looking like they're on copious amounts of steroids.

All in all lookin pretty good.

All very interesting and sounds mostly plausible.

Still no word on how they're tackling the Kill Points problem?

Neil wrote:All very interesting and sounds mostly plausible.

Still no word on how they're tackling the Kill Points problem?

Because GW themselves probably don't see it as a problem.

All of these rumors sounds awesome, so far. No nerfs that I can see.

It's not like IG HAD anything worth nerfing.

Heavy flamers for squads are pretty much worthless unless they stop counting as a heavy weapon. Don't see this as too exciting.

Moopy wrote:Heavy flamers for squads are pretty much worthless unless they stop counting as a heavy weapon. Don't see this as too exciting.

Well, then, it's a good thing Heavy Flamers are Assault 1 to begin with, huh?

New Sentinels makes me happy. I have no idea why, but I like the buggers.

i'm loving just about all i'm hearing.
not to sound like too much of a wet blanket,
but do you have any idea why everyone is
taking what Mkoll is saying as so reliable?

Sounds very promising. I need to get my Pig Iron heads and start redoing my Guard. Maybe I can get the basic Guardsmen ready by the time the Codex is out, lol.

Well, the Cadian Rough Riders will at least have decently sized horses, so we don't have to rely on the current age old fantasy pony any more.

This sounds very encouraging. I don't play IG at the moment, but this will probably get my into them.

Hey, where's HBMC? He'd usually be the first here to make witty about these rumours.

So:

- 4pts/guardsmen
- good tanks
- vox casters are useful
- ogryns rock

I'm happy

If that is all the changes they have made to Ogryns then they have not fixed Ogryns they have merely made them harder to kill.

Well, I imagine the points have been adjusted. We'll have to wait and see until someone starts REALLY leaking Codex info.

Are there any info on the 3rd chimera variant
Melta plasma?

Salamanders?

That means the IG finally have a fast tank!

w00t!

George Spiggott wrote:If that is all the changes they have made to Ogryns then they have not fixed Ogryns they have merely made them harder to kill.

Which would help. Mind you, I'd've rather taken power weapons and Stubborn, but being able to shrug off bolter fire like a swarm of gnats will be appreciated nonetheless. Being harder to kill would help them accomplish their objectives better, even with no change in their offensive capacities.

Assuming these rule changes are true, Ogryn will still be powerfist bait, and will have a tough time beating a PF-carrying tactical squad even when they get the charge. That T4 3W will be very tricky to mitigate against a lot of foes. However, anything without instant death (or massed power weapons) will probably get slapped around pretty good.

Against a 30-boy CC mob, if the Ogryn get the countercharge, will result in 11 dead orks, 2.25 return wounds from boyz, and 3.75 wounds from the PK. You're looking at 2 dead Ogryn (since the ones with the wounds from the boyz will get ID from the klaw at a later I step), and a mediocre win of 11-6. Sadly, no matter how much you thin that mob, it's the PK doing all the damage so I don't imagine the Ogryn will do you much good there.

The more I think about it, the more I like the Ogryn this way. Big, bumbling dummies who wander through hails of bullets, laughing stupidly and drooling slightly while they bash in heads. They're still technically human, however, and come apart when caught by any shot with some serious oomph like anybody else....

Moral of Story then is don't send them into a full unit of Orks without using your frankly prodigious firepower in the rest of the army to soften them up somewhat...

BTW, love the comparrison. Whats the points ratio to that then? How much does each side cost?

For what it's worth, I don't believe Ogryns will stay at 3 wounds each, or that Ripper guns will remain unmodified. We still don't have the full picture, I feel.

So what do we think of the Chimera box including three different vehicle variants? I can only really see it including

Hellhound/Salamander Scout/Salamander Command

I can't really see the Chimera box including parts for a Basilisk/Medusa/Griffon...

It's hard to imagine, given that the salamander variants use an open rear section, and there are no other turreted Chimerae. If I had to guess, I'd say we'll see more Chimera weapon variants, maybe even the old three.

Chimera, Chimedon (Battle Cannon Turret from old Epic) and quite possibly Hellhound...

Just guess work.

Tell you what though, as a line holding unit, I reckon 10 Ogryns with a Commissar would be damned good. Tough to put down, unlikely to break and run...

A Rough Rider Command Squad would actually make this the most perfect IG codex since second edition.

Nice set of rumors, but the change in defensive weapons for some variants is not cool. Why making an universial rule when some armies can break it? Especially Guard that ain't famed for their move and fire vehicles...

Can Ogryns be instant killed by a Power klaw? I mean they are T5 and Power klaw is S8 afaik.

Greets
Schepp himself

Power Klaw on the Charge is S10 right?

ahem ihave to say this.....

DID SOMEONE SAY ARBITES???

GW had a long tradition in WFB of giving each army an ability to 'ignore' one general rule. Dwarves could always march move, high elves got cheaper magic items, etc.

The Leman Russ is based on a WWI tank design, which had individual gunners. The Predator is based on a more modern light armored vehicle, with a signficantly smaller main gun and presumably smaller crew (iirc, it's 2 - driver and commander/gunner). I have no problem with the Leman Russ having a special "Sponson gunners" rule that lets its sponsons fire with the main gun (and hopefully, at separate targets). It would help display the differences between the vehicles - big heavy, multi-crew main tank vs. light, small-crew armored vehicle.

And I'd have to do some search-fu, but I was mocked after Fifth Edition when, in the wake of all these IG players wanting to rip off their sponsons, I said something to the effect of, "IG is right around the corner, who knows what GW will do. Maybe Leman Russes can fire their sponsons in addition to the main gun because they have extra crew."

It shouldn't be, unless the wielder has a natural S5. IIRC, Nobz have S4 and Furious charge, in which case the +1 on charge is added after doubling.

The Defenestrator wrote:Assuming these rule changes are true, Ogryn will still be powerfist bait, and will have a tough time beating a PF-carrying tactical squad even when they get the charge. That T4 3W will be very tricky to mitigate against a lot of foes. However, anything without instant death (or massed power weapons) will probably get slapped around pretty good.

Against a 30-boy CC mob, if the Ogryn get the countercharge, will result in 11 dead orks, 2.25 return wounds from boyz, and 3.75 wounds from the PK. You're looking at 2 dead Ogryn (since the ones with the wounds from the boyz will get ID from the klaw at a later I step), and a mediocre win of 11-6. Sadly, no matter how much you thin that mob, it's the PK doing all the damage so I don't imagine the Ogryn will do you much good there.

The more I think about it, the more I like the Ogryn this way. Big, bumbling dummies who wander through hails of bullets, laughing stupidly and drooling slightly while they bash in heads. They're still technically human, however, and come apart when caught by any shot with some serious oomph like anybody else....

No they won't. Powerclaws on Nobz are capped at str. 9, they would have to be str. 10 to insta kill Ogryns. Warbosses could do it, but they are rare in the army.

If they remain 40 points a piece, you can easily fit 5 for 200 points. Now you are talking about 15 wounds on 5 models that have a very short list on what can insta kill them.

Thoughness 5 is where they should have always been.

Death By Monkeys wrote:
- The Stormtrooper greens with the shotguns do not imply that IG Stormtroopers will be getting shotguns, but are instead for WH Arbites-style Stormtroopers.

- Stormtroopers will not be released in the first wave, but instead may be released with an Inquisitor supplement oriented around Planetfall.

Is this the first we've heard about an Inquisitor Supplement? Am I the only one getting geekwood over this?

If the rumors about Ogryns are true...I will definitely be fielding them. I've waited for about a decade to finally field those guys again. I'm glad I picked up the new ones for 30% off!

Capt K

Schepp himself wrote:Nice set of rumors, but the change in defensive weapons for some variants is not cool. Why making an universial rule when some armies can break it? Especially Guard that ain't famed for their move and fire vehicles...

I have been expecting something like this from the start. The first codex out after the rules change broke the defensive fire rule (SM Land Raider) the IG codex is merely the first in a long line. My money's on Tau next.

Orgyns are not as susceptible to Powerfisting as they were (S10 Power fists are much less common) but unless their offensive abilities are raised vs. high armour units (Space Marines, Necrons, Tyranid Monstrous Creatures etc.) they'll still be dust gatherers. I'm not sure they needed the boost vs. weaker attacks either (T5 and FNP).

The morale rules being based upon wounds not kills and their inability to even the wound score vs. high armour will do for more Ogryns than powerfists (which by rights should kill Ogryns).

I dunno matey. Sure, Terminators will rip them a new one, but they do get a fair amount of S5 HTH attacks, so they can do a bit of damage.

However, I think their main strength will lie in bogging down Swarm units and other troops. For example, if you can get them clobbering an Ork Mob, thats one less target for your Guard to worry about, allowing you to further concentrate your firepower on other units.

My brother once scared the pants off my Tau. He had two units of Stormtroopers in Chimera backed up by a squad of Ogryns similarly mounted. The Ogryns jumped the Broadsides and took them out of the equation for a good few turns, whilst the Stormtroopers rapidfired into my Firewarriors. The confusion this caused me (so didn't expect it!) ruined my plans that day. Of course, once aware of the nastiness of this, subsequent applications weren't so successful, but it always forced me to direct my firepower at the Ogryns first.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:I dunno matey. Sure, Terminators will rip them a new one...

And rightly so. However there's no chance of a single Sergeant with a Powerfist wiping out half the squad on the charge now.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:But they do get a fair amount of S5 HTH attacks, so they can do a bit of damage.

They get +2 to damage vs. Terminators (to hit and save are identical) for over four times the cost. Point for point they're comparable with guardmen in combat if they initiate combat (guardsmen obviously outclass them at range as you would expect).

Ogryns *Need* Rending not FNP with their 4+ save and T5.

George Spiggott wrote:

Schepp himself wrote:Nice set of rumors, but the change in defensive weapons for some variants is not cool. Why making an universial rule when some armies can break it? Especially Guard that ain't famed for their move and fire vehicles...

I have been expecting something like this from the start. The first codex out after the rules change broke the defensive fire rule (SM Land Raider) the IG codex is merely the first in a long line. My money's on Tau next.

Orgyns are not as susceptible to Powerfisting as they were (S10 Power fists are much less common) but unless their offensive abilities are raised vs. high armour units (Space Marines, Necrons, Tyranid Monstrous Creatures etc.) they'll still be dust gatherers. I'm not sure they needed the boost vs. weaker attacks either (T5 and FNP).

The morale rules being based upon wounds not kills and their inability to even the wound score vs. high armour will do for more Ogryns than powerfists (which by rights should kill Ogryns).

See i think this fits more with where they are for the army. Mowing down units with a lower save, but still not ripping up whole space marine squads in one go. On the flipside, those little units can't hurt them at all. Your opponent wil need to divert a pretty decent unit to deal with them, all the while the ogryns are picking on the weakest units and taking no casualties from them. Like a bully in middle school.

-sound of angelic choir-

Originally, I told myself I was only going to get a Valk or two, and obviously the Codex, but now, I really want the get the Command squad! It sounds pretty sweet.

Rough Riders on Bikes, hopefully.

I like the sounds of the Ogryn rumors, but as my army hates abhumans I'll probably just say that it's humans in some sort of power armor.

I heard that Primaris psykers had good rules from someone, so if their models are indeed bad then I'll probably just buy something off of Forgeworld.

Um, as for Ratlings, I'll just use human snipers if their rules happen to be good.

But seriously, my 1500 point army is probably going to go down to...probably 1250. Hrm...oh well! More Valkryies for me then.

Sounds pretty nice - obviously the =I=supplement/Planetfall bit even more so, but all the love Guard gets is sooooo welcome. I can add to my guard army, but also all human type conversions

Ogryns being worthwhile makes me glad I bought those FW Berserker Ogryn models to paint.

The great thing is that you don't need to model them with weapons cuz they already have twinlinked guns.

Good stuff in here.

And, as has been mentioned already, should we be worried about H.B.M.C.?

Our resident IG curmudgeon hasn't made an appearance in some time, even with all these IG rumors surfacing...

I'm pretty psyched.

25 Guards men for 110 points. I like it. So the strength of the guard is going to be fielding more wounds than your opponent has shots in the game.


Edit: Swapped my values.

i'm still incredulous about the ogryn rumors as they seem too good to be true. i stopped fielding my ogryns years before i took a break from 40k because they just weren't worth it. with T5, they're worth it for a cheaper cost. add in either FNP or armor 4+, and you'll see me fielding them. add in both and you'll always see me fielding them.

as for the cadian RR, i hope they're not on horses but i think they will be as the previous 3 versions of RR were. also, if they visually changed them to bikes they'd have to significantly change the rules which we haven't heard anything about. the gw rules cater to the lowest common demoninator *read: the dumbest person in your gaming group* so counting them as horse cavalry while visually mounting them on bikes probably wouldn't happen. i'll still convert mine to bikers though.

lifeafter wrote:I'm pretty psyched.

110 Guards men for 25 points. I like it. So the strength of the guard is going to be fielding more wounds than your opponent has shots in the game.

Other way around, 25 Guardsmen for 110pts.

Mahu wrote:If they remain 40 points a piece, you can easily fit 5 for 200 points. Now you are talking about 15 wounds on 5 models that have a very short list on what can insta kill them.

Just a nitpick, but Ogryns can't remain at 40pts per head, because they're only 25 right now...

Honk if you like the new tanks!

alarmingrick wrote:i'm loving just about all i'm hearing.
not to sound like too much of a wet blanket,
but do you have any idea why everyone is
taking what Mkoll is saying as so reliable?

There's a few folks over on Boot Camp that apparently know who he is and can vouch for him being a GW insider.

ArbitorIan wrote:So what do we think of the Chimera box including three different vehicle variants? I can only really see it including

Hellhound/Salamander Scout/Salamander Command

I can't really see the Chimera box including parts for a Basilisk/Medusa/Griffon...

My guess is that the Chimera box will include:

- Hellhound
- Chimera w/ Multilaser Turret
- Chimera w/ Autocannon Turret
- Chimera w/ Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter Turret
- Chimera w/ Heavy Flamer Turret
- Salamander (which could be armed either w/ Autocannon or Heavy Flamer as that's the main physical difference between the Scout and Command variants)

From what Mkoll's saying, the Basilisk, Medusa, and Griffon will all be in a separate "Artillery" box.

Sgt.Roadkill wrote:ahem ihave to say this.....

DID SOMEONE SAY ARBITES???

I wouldn't get too excited about this. I'm a recovering Arbites player myself, so I'm as excited as the next Arbites player about the possibility of new models, but I don't expect GW to expand on these guys other than the footnote of a rules that they have in the Witch Hunters codex.

The Leman Russ is based on a WWI tank design, which had individual gunners. The Predator is based on a more modern light armored vehicle, with a signficantly smaller main gun and presumably smaller crew (iirc, it's 2 - driver and commander/gunner). I have no problem with the Leman Russ having a special "Sponson gunners" rule that lets its sponsons fire with the main gun (and hopefully, at separate targets). It would help display the differences between the vehicles - big heavy, multi-crew main tank vs. light, small-crew armored vehicle.

And I'd have to do some search-fu, but I was mocked after Fifth Edition when, in the wake of all these IG players wanting to rip off their sponsons, I said something to the effect of, "IG is right around the corner, who knows what GW will do. Maybe Leman Russes can fire their sponsons in addition to the main gun because they have extra crew."

I'm thinking that the ability to fire sponsons as defensive weapons is going to be a limited ability - maybe like either a 0-1 type thing or limited to only a single type of Leman Russ (maybe like on Exterminators). But considering that Demolishers can have meltas and plasma cannons as sponsons, I feel I can pretty safely assume that firing those ones as defensive weapons will be a no go.

Is this the first we've heard about an Inquisitor Supplement? Am I the only one getting geekwood over this?

Again, don't get too excited over this - I think this is probably just a reference to the releases associated with Planetfall.

Now, what particularly amuses me is that I just went to Boot Camp to see if there were any more rumors from Mkoll and found that my list (which I had gleaned from Mkoll's comments) had been copied and pasted from Warseer and reposted to Boot Camp as if it were "news".

I've been on Boot Camp a while, Mkoll is one of those in the know kinda guys. Back when there were all those Apocalypse rumors starting he was spot on with all the baneblade and other guard stuff. I dunno if he works with GW but he's definitely got reliable sources.

Anyway for the sponsons firing I could see it being more like heavy bolters or heavy flamers can fire, but not something more powerful like plasma cannons. I guess we will have to wait and see

LunaHound wrote:Are there any info on the 3rd chimera variant
Melta plasma?

Thanks for re-posting that, btw, LunaHound - I'd been looking for that picture lately.

lifeafter wrote:I'm pretty psyched.

25 Guards men for 110 points. I like it. So the strength of the guard is going to be fielding more wounds than your opponent has shots in the game.

Oh yeah, I was thinking about that last night. So, we have the number 25 men for 110 points and 10 men for 40. That means your 5-man command squad is 30 points. So, for a full 5-squad platoon, you're looking at 230 points. 55 men for 230 points. Let's say you fill out your Troops FOC slots with that. That's 330 men for only 1380 points. That's pretty terrifying if you ask me. Particularly from a painting standpoint!

Yeah but how much would that many men cost? those 25 men = $69 .. i'm too lazy to do the rest of the math

So I was just thinkin.. if you can attach tanks to platoons, does that mean tanks will count as troops for taking objectives?

Necros wrote:Yeah but how much would that many men cost? those 25 men = $69 .. i'm too lazy to do the rest of the math

So I was just thinkin.. if you can attach tanks to platoons, does that mean tanks will count as troops for taking objectives?

Yes, they'd count as Troops. But only non-vehicle Troops count as scoring.

Ogryns with FNP and toughness 5 will not be instakilled by nobs, who are str 9 on the charge. A warboss will IK them though, as will Dreds, Lysander, Wraithlords, etc.

The Ogryns will be very cool and will crush low save low toughness models, but will still lose combats due to an inability to put out armor ignoring wounds against high save mid to high toughness models (unless we don't have the whole story yet).

They are now str6 in close combat with 2 attacks each and the bone head has 3.

And they are not 40 points as someone had said, they are 25 points.

That means for 135 pts, you get a seriously tough unit. 15 toughness 5 wounds with FNP and a 4+, that is pretty fantastic! If they give the bone head an option for a power weapon or power bayonet on this ripper gun (like in DoW), that is all they need. On the charge you would get 4 str 6 power weapon attacks at WS4 In3, not overpowering at all. Plus the 12 st6 regular attacks from the other guys and you have a very good assault unit. It would hit like a squad of Grey Knights in power armor, only at In3.

That would give them the ability to fight any units in HtH, which is what they were meant to be.

Without the power weapon option, they could easily get run down in combat by anything with a powerfist as they are only Ld9 with a bonehead. If the enemy has a high save, they will not put out as many wounds. They need at least one model to be able to ignore armor saves.

Also, if you can attach a commisar to them to make them fearless, now you have a serious tarpit unit.

I love ogryns and can't wait to see the actual rules, if they look good I will field a squad every game.

As for the rest of the rules, its looking great. I love IG, no question my favorite army to play and this is looking like we will have some serious firepower coming in. Last edition the only way to win games was to go MSU drop army. It was really effective but with the new kill point rules the only way to win is to wipe your enemy off the table.

As to the kill points issue, I have read and been told that the IG will give up 2 kill points per platoon, your opponant getting 1 for killing half, and the other for wiping it out, which gives guard the ability to play KP denial and makes up for the blatant hose job we get now.

Necros wrote:Yeah but how much would that many men cost? those 25 men = $69 .. i'm too lazy to do the rest of the math

So I was just thinkin.. if you can attach tanks to platoons, does that mean tanks will count as troops for taking objectives?

I wish I was paying $69 for 25 men; I play Steel Legion.

Ouch.

Necros wrote:Yeah but how much would that many men cost? those 25 men = $69 .. i'm too lazy to do the rest of the math

I'll do it for you - $910.80. For Janthkin's Steel Legion (let's see - assuming each command squad is an officer and 4 special weapon troops...carry the 1...) - ~$1,138. And yeah, that's only 1,380 points...huh. For Janthkin, it's 82 cents a point...

I wonder if the Commisar will carry the power weapon for the Ogryns? I could see that if priests or commisars were available to attach to them, the Bone 'ead would not get a power weapon, but the priest or commisar could get a fist or eviscerator or something.
Alternately, I could see the Bone 'ead getting a rending upgrade for 5 points like some daemon units.

Yea, seriously, where is HBMC? Did he get himself banned or something? Is there a "Casualty List" of people who got themselves perma-banned somewhere?

Wehrkind wrote:Yea, seriously, where is HBMC? Did he get himself banned or something? Is there a "Casualty List" of people who got themselves perma-banned somewhere?

Perhaps he's saving his 5,000th post for something truly breath-taking...

That said, his last post was on January 15th.

He must be dead. There's no other logical explanation.

And, in honor of Fanboys coming out today, I say 5 people go on a road trip down under to go and find him.

Scottywan82 wrote:He must be dead. There's no other logical explanation.

And, in honor of Fanboys coming out today, I say 5 people go on a road trip down under to go and find him.

According to Frazzled, there's been no ban or suspension, so he's probably on vacation and will laugh when he gets back at all the attention over him being gone.

I expect we'll know when he's back because all the 40K Discussion and most of the General Discussion will read H.B.M.C. as the latest posts. At the same time.

Yeah, that is true, if the commisar or the priest are still able to attach to the squad and can take a fist/eviscerator but are not IC's, then that works well.

We will have to wait and see, but I am really excited for what is to come.

George Spiggott wrote:If that is all the changes they have made to Ogryns then they have not fixed Ogryns they have merely made them harder to kill.

wisdom.

Agamemnon2 wrote:For what it's worth, I don't believe Ogryns will stay at 3 wounds each, or that Ripper guns will remain unmodified. We still don't have the full picture, I feel.

Agreed.


Just like George said. You give them T5, FNP and a 4+ save, and they don't get any leadership based ability or CC weapons, and they are just as trashed in a CC as before. I think people are forgetting just how devastating the CC units are in 5th edition. We are talking about bloodcrushers, nob bikers, and assault terminators here.

And please don't counter with 'you will be softening these units up with shooting'. I'll certainly have less shooting if I spent 250 points on a unit with limited range and shooting strength. I'd rather invest that 250 into more shooting, when you play a shooty army, tarpitting with CC just gives your opponent a safe zone to plug their units in until you break. Completely protected from shooting. For them even to be effective as a tar pit, they'd need leadership 9 stubborn or leadership 8 stubborn with the ability to re-roll off of a flag.

My preference is to keep them susceptible to morale, but increase the output of the ripper gun significantly. This way, I could spend 750 on 30 ogryns... but I'm still a shooty army, not a sub-par CC pretender. Since GW has decided not to euthanize rough riders, they can be your "hard hitting" CC unit. If ogryn don't bypass armor (I don't think they should) then there are going to be too many units out there that marginalize them.



As to the other rumors... i am happy and excited. And i'm confident that ogryn will be fine... as Agememnon said... we just don't have the full picture.

Shep wrote:As to the other rumors... i am happy and excited. And i'm confident that ogryn will be fine... as Agememnon said... we just don't have the full picture.

I don't want it misconstrued that I am in any way optimistic about the upcoming Codex, or the new Ogryns in specific. I believe the full picture will be a dismal failure, just like all the previous iterations.

well at least you stay positive, agamemnon!

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Shep wrote:As to the other rumors... i am happy and excited. And i'm confident that ogryn will be fine... as Agememnon said... we just don't have the full picture.

I don't want it misconstrued that I am in any way optimistic about the upcoming Codex, or the new Ogryns in specific. I believe the full picture will be a dismal failure, just like all the previous iterations.

Reecius wrote:well at least you stay positive, agamemnon!

Haha It must be very difficult to remain that curmudgeonly

Why would anybody want shooty Ogryns?

If I want shooty models, I'll take gun Troops.

I would take Ogryns because they *don't* shoot well, but instead fight well.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Why would anybody want shooty Ogryns?

If I want shooty models, I'll take gun Troops.

I would take Ogryns because they *don't* shoot well, but instead fight well.

2 sustained fire dice per model. Auto-hit inside 6 inches.

Ogryn wonderful knife-fight-range fire support in second edition; it was the third edition codex that made their shooting inferior (and introduced the silly mandatory Ogryn Close Combat weapons).

Shep wrote:Haha It must be very difficult to remain that curmudgeonly

Hindsight will vindicate me every single time.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Why would anybody want shooty Ogryns?

If I want shooty models, I'll take gun Troops.

I would take Ogryns because they *don't* shoot well, but instead fight well.

I would want them because they would be more effective than troops. They are elites.

Troops aren't good for anything but light damage and holding objectives.

Why would someone play IG and then want a dedicated CC unit. Better armies out there for that.

Janthkin wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Why would anybody want shooty Ogryns?

If I want shooty models, I'll take gun Troops.

I would take Ogryns because they *don't* shoot well, but instead fight well.

2 sustained fire dice per model. Auto-hit inside 6 inches.

Ogryn wonderful knife-fight-range fire support in second edition; it was the third edition codex that made their shooting inferior (and introduced the silly mandatory Ogryn Close Combat weapons).

Thats exactly what I'm talking about Janthkin... thanks. Close range nasty shooting, with marked increase in survivability from return fire.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Shep wrote:Haha It must be very difficult to remain that curmudgeonly

Hindsight will vindicate me every single time.

We shall see. And I may feel the need to cart out some of these posts if and when you are proven wrong.

From chaos space marines to today, GW has successfully made competitive codexes, their last misstep was dark angels, which was quite a while ago. They are 4 for 4 since then. But feel free to bet against it. I wouldn't bank on ogryns being top tier, but certainly look for the IG book as a whole to be a force.

I want the dedicated CC unit to bring a little balance to the Force.

Thanks for the positive outlook Shep, I too feel the same way. I have even come around on Darkangels, at first I was loathe to even touch the dex, but now I see you can make a tough list out of doublewing, although it requires a lot of skill. And the models look great.

As for the IG, they were competetive last edition, and it sounds like they will be more so now, I am stoked and choose to remain positive.

And Janthkin, thanks for reminding us of the good old days! Ah yes, the auto hitting ripper gun was rad. But, I will take 5th ed rules over 2nd ed any day.

so, my hardened vetran squads that i love so are still counted as elites or are they removed entirely? also thank the emporor they downed the costs for imperial guard.(bout' time!)

Most likely, Veterans will stay as Elites, or be nerfed if moved to Troops

Reecius wrote:And Janthkin, thanks for reminding us of the good old days! Ah yes, the auto hitting ripper gun was rad. But, I will take 5th ed rules over 2nd ed any day.

Cram Ogryn in Chimera. Drive Chimera 20+ inches and RAM the unit of heretics. Chimera flips over, Ogryn fall out (wounded from the crash). Ogryn open up with drum-fed shotguns at point-blank range, then dive in and club the survivors into submission.

Then a vortex grenade eats the whole mess.

5e has much more streamlined rules...but 2nd had better imagery.

*edit: Right, the topic. I'm with Agamemnon - better to be pessimistic. That way, you're never disappointed; either you are vindicated, or pleasantly surprised.

Janthkin wrote:
*edit: Right, the topic. I'm with Agamemnon - better to be pessimistic. That way, you're never disappointed; either you are vindicated, or pleasantly surprised.

I think you just described what's wrong with the whole internet, lol. This mentality kills me.

Can't wait for the book. I've never liked Ogryns, but this makes them sound wicked cool. SO excited for Rough Riders and such.

Janthkin wrote:*edit: Right, the topic. I'm with Agamemnon - better to be pessimistic. That way, you're never disappointed; either you are vindicated, or pleasantly surprised.

Correctamundo... a word I've never used before and hopefully never will again.

Death By Monkeys wrote:- Ogryns will be T5, 4+ save, and FNP for the same price they are now.

Isn't this what is rumoured for Necron Warriors?

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:- Ogryns will be T5, 4+ save, and FNP for the same price they are now.

Isn't this what is rumoured for Necron Warriors?

Shhh...you'll give away the secret that Ogryns are the next generation of Necron Flayers.

No no no,you got it all wrong, the bone heads are actually infiltrating periahs! Purge them!

Anyways, I think it's quite smirk-worthy that people suggest to make ogryns able to take a charge from THE dedicated assault units in the whole game, namely assault terminators, nob bikers and bloodcrushers. Yeah sure, the imperial guard will have access to the toughest melee unit in the galaxy...

Come on people, don't get a guardgasm just because the rumors turn out rather good. The Ogryns look like a nice tarpit unit that can take some punishment but will fail against some dedicated assault units. I for one think GW will make the guards competitive again without making them overpowered.I don't need another creep fest with 5th edition.

Greets
Schepp himself

The Defenestrator wrote:Assuming these rule changes are true, Ogryn will still be powerfist bait, and will have a tough time beating a PF-carrying tactical squad even when they get the charge. That T4 3W will be very tricky to mitigate against a lot of foes. However, anything without instant death (or massed power weapons) will probably get slapped around pretty good.

Against a 30-boy CC mob, if the Ogryn get the countercharge, will result in 11 dead orks, 2.25 return wounds from boyz, and 3.75 wounds from the PK. You're looking at 2 dead Ogryn (since the ones with the wounds from the boyz will get ID from the klaw at a later I step), and a mediocre win of 11-6. Sadly, no matter how much you thin that mob, it's the PK doing all the damage so I don't imagine the Ogryn will do you much good there.

The more I think about it, the more I like the Ogryn this way. Big, bumbling dummies who wander through hails of bullets, laughing stupidly and drooling slightly while they bash in heads. They're still technically human, however, and come apart when caught by any shot with some serious oomph like anybody else...

Durr, who is this moron? He must be soooo dumb, not noticing Ogryn are said to also be T5, rendering everything he just said completely moot. We should totally beat him up for it.


Ogryn aside, I think the defensive weapons thing could work. They should just make IG tanks not subject to the rules regarding firing ordnance and nothing else. I think that's pretty reasonable, while a Russ driving 6" and firing a battle cannon and 3 heavy bolters isn't.

Vets as an 'ard boyz style upgrade would be fine. Pay a fee for BS4 and access to an extra special weapon. we shall see if infiltrate and move through cover stay. Though to be fair, Vets are the textbook definition of the elites Force Org slot.

Janthkin wrote:I'm with Agamemnon - better to be pessimistic. That way, you're never disappointed; either you are vindicated, or pleasantly surprised.

Here here! Let's all bitch about how horrible this codex is, and how we're all pawning off our guardsmen as fast as we can. That way, no matter what the new dex looks like, we'll be pleasantly surprised!

Bunch of nagging old hags.

Yay for cheaper Guardsmen! (Though they'll probably raise the price of heavy weapons to 'balance' out the newly cheaper squads!!!)

Valhallan42nd wrote:Yay for cheaper Guardsmen! (Though they'll probably raise the price of heavy weapons to 'balance' out the newly cheaper squads!!!)

Actually, i wouldn't be surprised if the cost of some heavy weapons was included already a la SM Tac squad.

I'm ALSO way excited for things like auto-launchers, search lights, and dozer blades to be built into the tank costs.

Scottywan82 wrote:Actually, i wouldn't be surprised if the cost of some heavy weapons was included already a la SM Tac squad.

There was a question about that over on Boot Camp and Mkoll's response was essentially that Guardsmen are 40 points for 10 Lasguns or 9 Lasgun/1 Laspistol - otherwise, they're nekkid.

Hmmm... that's almost sad. I really liked all the items that were being built into the points cost of squads in the SM book. Ah well. The tanks at least should have the "fiddly" pieces built into their costs. Hopefully Track Guards included.

Most likely vehicles will just get smoke and lights as standard kit, along with basic weapons. Chimeras will get their multi-laser and heavy bolter and the Russ variants will come with a heavy bolter in the hull.

And ten to one extra armour will go up from five to fifteen.

I am still really curious to see if we will indeed get free heavy/special weapon w/ our troop choices or at least have the point cost drop on said heavy weapons. Hate taking squads of guys and going...oh yeah 50+ 10 Wound Heavy Weapon..>YEA

I sometimes skip taking heavy weapons and just have lasguns. Then I take heavy weapon squads so that they can direct their fire more appropriately. my 3 lascannons shoot tanks, my 30 guardsmen mow-down a tactical squad.

Scottywan82 wrote:I sometimes skip taking heavy weapons and just have lasguns. Then I take heavy weapon squads so that they can direct their fire more appropriately. my 3 lascannons shoot tanks, my 30 guardsmen mow-down a tactical squad.

My mech guard do this occasionally, but mostly cause they're costly enough already.

lol! No lie. Also, the lack of heavy weapons keeps footsloggers from being slowed down if you need them to press on towards the enemy. And since 10 points is 25% of a new squad, you can get 50 guardsmen with flashlights for the price of 40 with 4 heavy weapons!

yeah I run my guys without heavy weapons even now, lets you move around especially since you might need to get out and capture some objectives. I like the heavy weapon squads better, easier to concentrate fire and kill stuff. I'm hoping you'll be able to attach HW squads to platoons the way you can with HQs now

Necros wrote:yeah I run my guys without heavy weapons even now, lets you move around especially since you might need to get out and capture some objectives. I like the heavy weapon squads better, easier to concentrate fire and kill stuff. I'm hoping you'll be able to attach HW squads to platoons the way you can with HQs now

QFT! And maybe one for each infantry squad? That would be awesome. I really can't wai to see some of the more finicky rules they come up with for army creation this time around.

Scottywan82 wrote:

Necros wrote:yeah I run my guys without heavy weapons even now, lets you move around especially since you might need to get out and capture some objectives. I like the heavy weapon squads better, easier to concentrate fire and kill stuff. I'm hoping you'll be able to attach HW squads to platoons the way you can with HQs now

QFT! And maybe one for each infantry squad? That would be awesome. I really can't wai to see some of the more finicky rules they come up with for army creation this time around.

Speaking of which, over at warseer, the dude's summary now includes:

The Dude wrote:
Imperial Guard Platoons
Platoons will supposedly be structured as follows:
1 command squad
2 - 5 infantry squads
0 - 5 heavy weapons squads
0-2 special weapons squads
0-1 conscript squad
The entire platoon with all these squads will only take one Troops selection in the FOC.

Though there may be limitations based on other options, (made up example) like taking sentinels as an attached unit for the platoon preventing you from taking heavy weapon squads.

I do find myself running w/ little to no heavy weapons but that is mainly because I run more Mechanized now so all those Multi-Lasers help deal w/ things and the heavy flamers aren't to shabby either Toss in the odd Lascannon crew that starts outside of there vehicle and I am doing pretty well

aka_mythos wrote:Speaking of which, over at warseer, the dude's summary now includes:

The Dude wrote:
Imperial Guard Platoons
Platoons will supposedly be structured as follows:
1 command squad
2 - 5 infantry squads
0 - 5 heavy weapons squads
0-2 special weapons squads
0-1 conscript squad
The entire platoon with all these squads will only take one Troops selection in the FOC.

Though there may be limitations based on other options, (made up example) like taking sentinels as an attached unit for the platoon preventing you from taking heavy weapon squads.

Emperor's Scoring Masses!

14 squads in a single Platoon?!?

I'm so excited to see how this really works.

I'd assume it will still be 5 squads + cmd max, but I guess we'll see

Holy crap... that's a lot of delicious wounds!

I am really excited about this new codex too. Even if it isn't "good" in the curb stomping the heretic kind of way, I just really want to see what is done, and give it a go. Having that kind of flexibility would be absolutely great, even if the notion of painting 50+ infantry for mandatory troop choices makes my painting calluses ache

Plus side, my wife just expressed interest in painting tanks for me, so there is one "SO COOL/SUCH HATE TO PAINT!" issue taken care of

Well, if the Ogryn rumors are true, I'll finally pick up a Guard army. Big tanks blasting big shells barricaded by big, brawny, burbling brutes with baseball bats. Sounds like win to me.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:Speaking of which, over at warseer, the dude's summary now includes:

The Dude wrote:
Imperial Guard Platoons
Platoons will supposedly be structured as follows:
1 command squad
2 - 5 infantry squads
0 - 5 heavy weapons squads
0-2 special weapons squads
0-1 conscript squad
The entire platoon with all these squads will only take one Troops selection in the FOC.

Though there may be limitations based on other options, (made up example) like taking sentinels as an attached unit for the platoon preventing you from taking heavy weapon squads.

Emperor's Scoring Masses!

14 squads in a single Platoon?!?

I'm so excited to see how this really works.

Yay! I'll even be able to use my mortars! What? I like mortars.

The Dude wrote:
Imperial Guard Platoons
Platoons will supposedly be structured as follows:
1 command squad
2 - 5 infantry squads
0 - 5 heavy weapons squads
0-2 special weapons squads
0-1 conscript squad
The entire platoon with all these squads will only take one Troops selection in the FOC.

Ok so let's play price a platoon!
Steel Legion (Works for any GW metal infantry currently available in the online store):

1 command squad: $8 officer, $8 per special weapon - $40
2-5 infantry squads: $35 for 6 lasguns, 1 missile team, 1 sarge, 1 grenade launcher - $35 - $50 per squad (50 if you buy another squad because you hate grenades and missiles)
0-5 heavy weapon squads: $17 per heavy weapon (if it's made, since autocannons and mortars aren't available it'll be $4 for bits ordering plastic weapons) - $51 - $55 per squad
0-2 Special weapon squads: $8 per spcial weapon, $35 for lasguns - $43 per squad

So to make a minimum platoon we have $110, for a maximum platoon $556.
Suddenly the fact that I only have two and a 1/2 minimum strength platoons of guardsmen doesn't bode well with me, but I have 20 russes, 9 chimeras, and tons of other tanks.
Here's hoping mechanized is still viable, or GW drops the price on metal guardsmen. I'd hate to be a DKoK player...

Dude, if those platoon rumors are ture, and platoons only give up 2 kill points total as some of the rumors indicate, Guard will be the new black, or orks as the case may be.

I am seriously fired up for this. My guard will swell up to my marine army size, which is probably stupid. I will end up playing apoc games against myself.....that is just all kinds of fail.

Seriously though, if those rumors are true, IG will be super radicalness, which is a word I just made up.

aka_mythos wrote::

The Dude wrote:
Imperial Guard Platoons
Platoons will supposedly be structured as follows:
1 command squad
2 - 5 infantry squads
0 - 5 heavy weapons squads
0-2 special weapons squads
0-1 conscript squad
The entire platoon with all these squads will only take one Troops selection in the FOC.

Though there may be limitations based on other options, (made up example) like taking sentinels as an attached unit for the platoon preventing you from taking heavy weapon squads.

Before we all get crazy, I have to say, it seems LIKELY that the number of attachments will be equal to the number of infantry squads.

While i realize that GW DOES change its mind about things left right and center, one attachment per infantry squad would be consistant with the original 2nd edition configuration of platoon attachments, and would seem reasonable with that list. For instance why limit the heavy weapons to 5? Seems like a far cheaper method of procuring Heavy weapon squads than a heavy weapons platoon. AND they get the platoon rules now!

Seems more likely that the limit of 5 is imposed because you can only have up to 5 infantry squads.

Just my 2 cents.

Though that's not to be disappointed. DAMN that is one sweet set of rules!

I just can't help but think to myself that now my army is going to be:

HQ

Ogryns w/ Chimera
Kasrkin in Valkyrie
Kasrkin in Valkyrie

Platoon 1
-3 Squads
-3 Heavy Weapon Squads
Platoon 2
-3 Squads
-3 Heavy Weapon Squads
Platoon 3
-3 Squads
-3 Heavy Weapon Squads

Sentinels
Rough Riders
Rough Riders

Leman Russ Squadron
Hydra Squadron (oh PLEASE!! PLEASE!!!)
Basilisk Squadron

And that's just using the FOC! Once I'm playing Apocalypse games, there's no limit!

I also wonder if the HQ is limited to 1 still. I kind of wished that you could put to in there so I could have 2 Infantry companies in one FOC.

So GW is bringing back the "buy 1, get 1 free" approach to Guard from 2E? Cool

In my case, my Guard infantry would just reshuffle the HWS down to regular platoons, but I'd have to fold the AF single squad into a proper Platoon.

Ok, ok, I'm here.

The rumour list... yeah, look, like with Agga and Janth I have my concerns. Some of it seems like blatant wishlisting, some of it seems good.

The very idea of AV13 Russes fills me with dread, as does the idea of them being subject to the criminally childish and overly simplistic 5th Ed Squadron rules (immobilised = destroyed).

At the end of the day, if GW has a few good jems in there, good - I steal the good ideas for 40K Revisited - if not, I'll continue to ignore their pendulum-swinging antics and just await the plastic Valkyrie!!!

Honestly I'm more excited by the Planet Strike rumours.

BYE

Which is just as well because the day you can't pick a hole in something did is actually the final sign of the Apocalypse!

wow. bols has some interesting today

If regular guys are 4 pts each (in units), how cheap will those conscripts be?

Or will possibly be same 4 points, but have other more "useless troops" sort of rules needlessly attached to them?

There has been alot of inconsistencies with the rumors on the leman russ' armor value in the new codex.
The different rumors say that Leman Russ' will be:
AV14 Front & 13 Side or Av13 Front & 13 Side or as it is.

Now there are only 2 reasons for a contradiction of this sort, A) some or all of them are incorrect or B) they are all correct. If the latter, B) is the case, its a matter that different variants have different values which strikes me as very likely. It seems that with an updated kit coming soon, GW would not want to nerf the LR. When you consider that there are a rumored 13 main cannon variants of he LRBT in the codex, that's alot of tanks to sell, and that's alot of variants that may have different options.

Wait, 13 variants of the LRBT?

Vanquisher, Conqueror, exterminator, annihilator, demolisher, vanilla, whatever-the-Ryza-pattern-is-called...

That's 7. What're the other 6?

Scottywan82 wrote:whatever-the-Ryza-pattern-is-called...

The Executioner.

Vanilla, Demolisher, Exterminator, Vanquisher, Conqueror, Executioner (plasma zapper) and Annihilator (TL lascannons). Then we've got that odd variant with four multi-meltas shown in the 5th edition rulebook and we're up to eight turreted variants.

Unless all of the sudden the turret-less variants are included of course, like the Thunderer and Destroyer, that brings us to ten Russ variants.

And the squishifier and the blazer and the destructioner.

Some of those might be made up.

Well, if the new codex is supposed to have 21 tank variants they would either be making stuff up or bringing in every variant cranked out by Forge World.

Russ: Vanilla, Demolisher, Exterminator, Vanquisher, Executioner, Annihilator, Thunderer, Destroyer, Conqueror, Atlas and the new variant.
Chimera: Vanilla, Griffon, Basilisk, Medusa, Trojan, Hydra, Manticore
Sentinel: Scout variant, spearhead variant, powerlifter

That would bring the list to 21 different vehicles..

what about the hellhound? i doubt they're dropping that. although i'd like to see more diversity in guard vehicles, your list is a little too wishful IMO. i think also might be including sponson variants in the list of 21.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Ok, ok, I'm here.

The rumour list... yeah, look, like with Agga and Janth I have my concerns. Some of it seems like blatant wishlisting, some of it seems good.

The very idea of AV13 Russes fills me with dread, as does the idea of them being subject to the criminally childish and overly simplistic 5th Ed Squadron rules (immobilised = destroyed).

At the end of the day, if GW has a few good jems in there, good - I steal the good ideas for 40K Revisited - if not, I'll continue to ignore their pendulum-swinging antics and just await the plastic Valkyrie!!!

Honestly I'm more excited by the Planet Strike rumours.

BYE

What!?!?!

We waited that long for you to show up, and that's all we get?

I feel like I got ripped off!

FlatlanderBoss2.0 wrote:If regular guys are 4 pts each (in units), how cheap will those conscripts be?

Or will possibly be same 4 points, but have other more "useless troops" sort of rules needlessly attached to them?

What makes you think Conscripts as a unit will exist any more in the new codex?

warboss wrote:what about the hellhound? i doubt they're dropping that. although i'd like to see more diversity in guard vehicles, your list is a little too wishful IMO. i think also might be including sponson variants in the list of 21.

Knew I forgot one.. And I'm merely summing up all known tank patterns, by no means am I stating that these are in the new codex.

I'm likeing these rumors. It looks like my mech IG will be cheaper i hope storm trooper as troop well still be around.

From warseer:
Troops:
Penal Legion: LD 8; Scout, Stubborn, Desperados

Chimera 55pts; 12/10/10; Standard with Multilaser and hull heavy bolter; Upgrade Multilaser to Heavy Bolter or heavy flamer for free; storm bolter or heavy stubber +10pts; Hunter killer Missile 10pts; Dozer Blade +10; extra armor +15; camo net +20.

Hellhound 12/12/10 Tank, Fast (Inferno Cannon R12 S6 AP4 Heavy 1 Template no rolls to hit on partials)
Devildog 12/12/10 Tank, Fast (Fusion Cannnon R24 S8 Ap1 Heavy 1 Blast)
Bane Wolf 12/12/10 Tank, Fast ("Chemical Cannon" S1 AP3 Heavy1 Template; Always hits on 2+)

All Leman Russ: Move 6" and fire all weapons or fire nothing and move 6" plus roll 1d6 and move 3,5,8,12,15 inches more.

LR Battle Tank 14/13/10
LR Exterminator 14/13/10 (Autocannon, Twin Linked Heavy 4)
LR Vanquisher 14/13/10 (AP2 Heavy 1 +1d6 to penetration)
LR Eradicator 14/13/10 (Nova Cannon, 36" S6 AP4 Ordnance, Ignore Cover Save)
LR Demolisher 14/13/11
LR Punisher 14/13/11 (Punisher Gatling Cannon 24" S5 AP- Heavy 20)
LR Executioner 14/13/11 (Plasma Executioner Cannon 36" S7 AP3 Heavy 3)

Basilisk 12/10/10 Tank, Open Topped
Medusa 12/10/10 Tank, Open Topped (Medusa Cannon: 36" S10 AP2. Ordnance, or 48" S10 AP1 Blast Melta)
Colossus 12/10/10 Tank, Open Topped (Colossus Cannon: 24-240" S6 AP3 Ordnance, Ignores Cover Saves)
Griffon 12/10/10 Tank, Open Topped (Griffon Heavy Mortar: 12-48" S6 AP4 Ordnance, Re-roll to hit)

Manticore 12/10/10 Tank (Only 4 shots) (Eagle Missile Storm 24-120" S10 Ap4, Ordnance 1d3)

Deathstrike Launcher 12/10/10 Tank ("Heavy Artillery" Only 1 shot, may not fire turn one, each turn roll 1d6 +1 for each turn not fired, -1 for each crew stunned or weapon destroyed sustained on a 6 the missile fires) (R12-1000" S10 AP1 1d3+3 "areas" each area is 6"+1d3(3,5,8") in size)

Ogryn are 25pts, S5, T5 A3 Sv4+ with furious charge(?)

Valkarie: If it moves more than 24" troops maynot embark or disembark; 12" or less troops may diembark with a dangerous terrain test

Conscripts are gone. (This seems contradictory to the first part, but they maybe changing the unit up and the name, and the original poster sees it as that different).
____________

Interesting, though some parts of it are very odd.

The Deathstrike launcher in particular.

I'm skeptical on the Bane Wolf, Eradicator, and especially the Punisher(heavy 20? Really? If you're going to wishlist a tank, make it at least believable).

Personally, the deathstrike seems to be something few would ever field in a normal game, but more for apocalypse.

On the Leman Russ variants, we have no idea the point cost. I wonder if a math hammer fiend can do a number crunch on how a S5 AP- Heavy20 stacks up against a battle cannon against MEQ? I don't think it'd end up so bad that a a large enough point difference could make up for it.

I'll file these under "Important If True", but don't expect all of them to be so. I believe in the Executioner, the Griffon and the Medusa, but beyond that, not so much.

Hmmm, the Punisher could be the mystery tank found in the 5th edition rulebook, so heavy 20 might explain the quad cannon in the turret.

I would love to be able to believe in that one, but I can't. Heck, it'd be great, though, just for the sheer joy of throwing a can of dice at a time.

BrookM wrote:Hmmm, the Punisher could be the mystery tank found in the 5th edition rulebook, so heavy 20 might explain the quad cannon in the turret.

Heavy 5/6 is the most likely, I could maybe even believe Heavy 10(it's a stretch). Heavy 20, though, sounds more like the realm of Apocalypse than an actual Codex.

I don't know about this bit, but, I thought the space marine rumors sounded far fetched and they all turned out to be true.

I also thought the space marines were going to be a bit overpowered from the rumors and that turned out to be untrue as well.

We will just have to wait and see. It looks like GW is packing in more and more units into each dex to keep suckers like me trying to have a little of everything in the dexes. Smart move and it ties in well with Apoc.

Heavy 20 on a str 5, ap- tank isnt that nuts really when you think about it. Its only 24" range, looks to be a variant of the demolisher.

If you roll average that is 10 str5 hits, that is 6 dead orks, 2 or 3 dead meqs, big deal. A demolisher cannon rolling a hit will be far worse in most cases.

And what's up with a str1 ap 3 template? that must be a typo, needing a 6 to kill an meq? That is worthless, if you hit 6 bodies you kill 1?

The Bane Wolf might have special rules to reflect that it is a chemical weapon delivery system of sorts.

BrookM wrote:The Bane Wolf might have special rules to reflect that it is a chemical weapon delivery system of sorts.

Like Poison? At St1, I could see it having Poison to emphasize the anti-infantry and limit its effect against low armor vehicles.

Reecius wrote:
And what's up with a str1 ap 3 template? that must be a typo, needing a 6 to kill an meq? That is worthless, if you hit 6 bodies you kill 1?

The Warseer thread says they always wound on a 2+ which would be much more useful.

Actually, it says it always hits on a 2+, not wound. Unless I'm missing something here..

BrookM wrote:Actually, it says it always hits on a 2+, not wound. Unless I'm missing something here..

Well, this latest batch has been translated from Spanish, so errors are bound ot have happened.

Yeah, Agamemnon is correct.

If it wounds on a 2+ and hits like a template it is crazy in the other direction. If it can shoot like the hellhound, then all of a sudden that thing is my new favorite tank.

The bombardment vehicles all sound cool but they arent too hot these days with true LOS, unless you are playing city fight in which case they are incredible.

The deathstrike missle sounds like it will be a for fun unit that when it works is awesome but usually is just for laughs.

Well, we will just have to wait and see.

Emperor's Motor Pool!

That's a lot of Tank variants.

But where are the Annihilator and Conqueror?

Still, the new "Punisher" is AV14/13/11 with a Heavy 20 main gun?!? Really? I guess Guard really *does* know how to deal with Orks.

Can't wait to see the pricing so we can figure out which variants are optimal.

aka_mythos wrote:Deathstrike Launcher 12/10/10 Tank ("Heavy Artillery" Only 1 shot, may not fire turn one, each turn roll 1d6 +1 for each turn not fired, -1 for each crew stunned or weapon destroyed sustained on a 6 the missile fires) (R12-1000" S10 AP1 1d3+3 "areas" each area is 6"+1d3(3,5,8") in size)

Yeah... no. I can't see a one-shot Deathstrike becoming part of the game.

BYE

Looks like the green horde is in for it!

G

aka_mythos wrote:From warseer:

Hellhound 12/12/10 Tank, Fast (Inferno Cannon R12 S6 AP4 Heavy 1 Template no rolls to hit on partials)
Devildog 12/12/10 Tank, Fast (Fusion Cannnon R24 S8 Ap1 Heavy 1 Blast)
Bane Wolf 12/12/10 Tank, Fast ("Chemical Cannon" S1 AP3 Heavy1 Template; Always hits on 2+)

Maybe if the "different weapons config" rumor is true.

aka_mythos wrote:From warseer:
All Leman Russ: Move 6" and fire all weapons or fire nothing and move 6" plus roll 1d6 and move 3,5,8,12,15 inches more.

Random movement?

Sounds silly. 6+ 15 = 21"
Where is the 12" move ?
Can't be

aka_mythos wrote:From warseer:
LR Battle Tank 14/13/10
LR Exterminator 14/13/10 (Autocannon, Twin Linked Heavy 4)
LR Vanquisher 14/13/10 (AP2 Heavy 1 +1d6 to penetration)
LR Eradicator 14/13/10 (Nova Cannon, 36" S6 AP4 Ordnance, Ignore Cover Save)
LR Demolisher 14/13/11
LR Punisher 14/13/11 (Punisher Gatling Cannon 24" S5 AP- Heavy 20)
LR Executioner 14/13/11 (Plasma Executioner Cannon 36" S7 AP3 Heavy 3)

Basilisk 12/10/10 Tank, Open Topped
Medusa 12/10/10 Tank, Open Topped (Medusa Cannon: 36" S10 AP2. Ordnance, or 48" S10 AP1 Blast Melta)
Colossus 12/10/10 Tank, Open Topped (Colossus Cannon: 24-240" S6 AP3 Ordnance, Ignores Cover Saves)
Griffon 12/10/10 Tank, Open Topped (Griffon Heavy Mortar: 12-48" S6 AP4 Ordnance, Re-roll to hit)

Manticore 12/10/10 Tank (Only 4 shots) (Eagle Missile Storm 24-120" S10 Ap4, Ordnance 1d3)

So the side armor gets up to 13
New Tanks were said before so some of the yet unknown Tanks may become real.

Is it just me or does this look like a lot of wishlisting nonsense?

Is the leman russ getting any sort of redesign in the kit or just a recut with some demolisher bits? I really can't see the introduction of completely new tanks like this, especially not without shiny new kits to sell with those rules.

aka_mythos wrote:From warseer:
All Leman Russ: Move 6" and fire all weapons or fire nothing and move 6" plus roll 1d6 and move 3,5,8,12,15 inches more.

Random movement?

Sounds silly. 6+ 15 = 21"
Where is the 12" move ?
Can't be

No worries, I fgured it had to be a mis translation or somethign similar. Hell, who cares, its just fun to see the rumors!

@Dumbucket
They dont need new kits, just new weapons to go in existing turrets. That doesn't take much. One sprue could cover all vairants of russes, another for Demolisher variants, a third for hellhounds, a fourth for indirect firing vehicles. If you look at the new tnaks that is all they are, variant weapons load outs.

All four of those catagories use the same basic chasis for their class. Actually, the Russ and Demolisher variants could all go on one sprue as they use the russ hull. The hellhound weapons could all go with the chimera variants.

I don't think its a stretch at all to have new tank variants, its a cheap way to add variety and encourage players to buy more tank kits, requiring only a few new sprues. Its actually a really smart move and it spices up the game. This could be a big win for GW. I think there are a lot of people out there who want to play gaurd, but like the ork were scared away by the high model count and steep learning curve.

Now just look at Orks, they are selling like hotcakes as far as I can see. You take a cool army with a lot of cahracter, give them beautiful models with a great rule set, a touch of wacky and old school units to keep everyone happy and you have a big win. I think IG could be the next orks if GW play their hand right, and going with loads of tanks is a good bet in my opinion.

And again, remember how far fetched the marine rumors sounded? No one believed it and they all turned out to be true and they all turned out to not be such a big deal after all.

dumbuket wrote:Is it just me or does this look like a lot of wishlisting nonsense?

I agree.

I can see them doing a recut of the sprue - that's fine and in a lot of ways necessary - but making that many new tanks? Please.

BYE

Agamemnon2 wrote:

BrookM wrote:Actually, it says it always hits on a 2+, not wound. Unless I'm missing something here..

Well, this latest batch has been translated from Spanish, so errors are bound ot have happened.

I think that if you translated it from Spanish to English, you'd get "Hurts (aka wounds) on a 2+".

I really like the sound of everything even if it's really over the top. My mouth was wide open when I read through everything.

Hopefully if there are this many new tanks, then we'll be able to order them off of the GW site separately!

Well lets take a lookie here....

From warseer:
Troops:
Penal Legion: LD 8; Scout, Stubborn, Desperados

Assuming these are replacing Conscripts as is theorized later. We don't know what if any heavy weapons they will be able to take...thinking maybe something like the last chancers? Special Weapons are something else like that?

Chimera 55pts; 12/10/10; Standard with Multilaser and hull heavy bolter; Upgrade Multilaser to Heavy Bolter or heavy flamer for free; storm bolter or heavy stubber +10pts; Hunter killer Missile 10pts; Dozer Blade +10; extra armor +15; camo net +20.

This is all very plausible. I have also heard rumor you can upgrade the multi-laser to a twin-linked Heavy Bolter for +10. And this isn't the first time we've seen/heard this floating around

Hellhound 12/12/10 Tank, Fast (Inferno Cannon R12 S6 AP4 Heavy 1 Template no rolls to hit on partials)
Devildog 12/12/10 Tank, Fast (Fusion Cannnon R24 S8 Ap1 Heavy 1 Blast)
Bane Wolf 12/12/10 Tank, Fast ("Chemical Cannon" S1 AP3 Heavy1 Template; Always hits on 2+)

Assuming all Hellhound variants that can be done in a single recut box. Devildog seems interesting....Ap1 seems a bit much but it does not have the smaller blast so alrighty. Everything is plausible listed here. Banewolf I am assuming is poison and is alrighty.

All Leman Russ: Move 6" and fire all weapons or fire nothing and move 6" plus roll 1d6 and move 3,5,8,12,15 inches more.
LR Battle Tank 14/13/10
LR Exterminator 14/13/10 (Autocannon, Twin Linked Heavy 4)
LR Vanquisher 14/13/10 (AP2 Heavy 1 +1d6 to penetration)
LR Eradicator 14/13/10 (Nova Cannon, 36" S6 AP4 Ordnance, Ignore Cover Save)
LR Demolisher 14/13/11
LR Punisher 14/13/11 (Punisher Gatling Cannon 24" S5 AP- Heavy 20)
LR Executioner 14/13/11 (Plasma Executioner Cannon 36" S7 AP3 Heavy 3)

Movement sounds completely odd...guessing BS on this one but who knows. Maybe you can supercharge your engines or something....1d6 x 3 for speed boost? Most can be on a recut sprue maybe....Eradicator sounds good to me. Very plausible. Executioner....heavy 3 shots or heavy 3 small blast? Small blast I see...simply Heavy 3 not so much. The Punisher would let us deal w/ horde...but w/ no AP it's not going to kill all that much beyond Horde w/ out a few turns to really unload. Heavy 20 seems a bit much but who knows.

Basilisk 12/10/10 Tank, Open Topped
Medusa 12/10/10 Tank, Open Topped (Medusa Cannon: 36" S10 AP2. Ordnance, or 48" S10 AP1 Blast Melta)
Colossus 12/10/10 Tank, Open Topped (Colossus Cannon: 24-240" S6 AP3 Ordnance, Ignores Cover Saves)
Griffon 12/10/10 Tank, Open Topped (Griffon Heavy Mortar: 12-48" S6 AP4 Ordnance, Re-roll to hit)

Manticore 12/10/10 Tank (Only 4 shots) (Eagle Missile Storm 24-120" S10 Ap4, Ordnance 1d3)

Deathstrike Launcher 12/10/10 Tank ("Heavy Artillery" Only 1 shot, may not fire turn one, each turn roll 1d6 +1 for each turn not fired, -1 for each crew stunned or weapon destroyed sustained on a 6 the missile fires) (R12-1000" S10 AP1 1d3+3 "areas" each area is 6"+1d3(3,5,8") in size)

The basilisk can maybe be a recut for the artillery tanks, or at least most of them?, Medusa, if it is in, would be spendy point wise. Griffon having re-roll to hit....odd. Maybe it meant to wound? Guess at least means no cover saves....which, IMHO, makes no frakin sense anyways. If a tank shell removes your armour save, ie would blow up a freakin building, because I am shooting through people or near other people DOES NOT MEAN YOU SHOULD GET COVER SAVES! GAH!

Manticore and Deathstrike seems like wishlisting BUT they have been bringing back more things from older editions so who really knows

Ogryn are 25pts, S5, T5 A3 Sv4+ with furious charge(?)

Valkarie: If it moves more than 24" troops maynot embark or disembark; 12" or less troops may diembark with a dangerous terrain test

Conscripts are gone. (This seems contradictory to the first part, but they maybe changing the unit up and the name, and the original poster sees it as that different).

Valkarie would be sweet if you can move more than 12" and jump out. Would make sense if stormtroopers can do that, training and all that jazz, and Conscripts I commented on. All in all I think a lot of this is possible. GW, being a buisness, wants to make money. Most people do not want armies w/ 200+ troops running around...but how many go crazy for tanks? Give us an army w/ a variety of tanks AND support it w/ infantry and they can make some serious bank. Time will tell how much is wishlisted here...but I can see a lot of this making it through

That sounds kinda wishlisty.
However, most of what's there sounds fairly reasonable, and in line with GW policy of options via new units. If the AV13 side armour turns out to be true, I will be gutting myself with laughter, as that really had some people panicking when it was presumed to be the Front armour .
There are really only three things that strike me as funny. The First is the Random 'Rus speed. That just doesn't fit with the Lumbering image of the Russ. The Punisher I am a little skeptical on, as heavy 20 sounds a little wishful. Still, you get insane numbers of Dice in CC, so why not at range?
The Deathlauncher just sounds like a pile of nonsense. GW seems to favour simple rules, and that thing sounds fairly complex.
If it were not for those three rumours, I would say that we had gold here. As it is, I think a lot in this list could very well turn out to be real.
Overall I find myself Skeptical, but hey, who would have predicted the Thunderfire cannon?

Gotta call Bravo Sierra. I keep thinking about how that home-brewed codex from a poster on Warseer got posted as the rumored codex, and think that this sounds similar.

The Deathstrike is absurd. The thing fires an ICBM. It doesn't belong in 40K, not even in Apocalypse. It just about makes sense in Epic. I think that this latest batch of rumors is false.

The deathstirke throws me too, althugh the other stuff sounds plausible.

The Deathstrike is fine in Apoc because there are rules for Titan Warp Missiles and the like, which is what the Deathstrike was for.

In a 2000 point game of 40K though? Hell no.

BYE

aka_mythos wrote:
Random movement?

Sounds silly. 6+ 15 = 21"
Where is the 12" move ?
Can't be

I agree I think it sounded weird too but that was the translation. I only think the possibility of the 18" and 21" is ridiculous.

That makes sense, but then why not just move at cruising speed? That part is weird because its so different than any other Imperial vehicle.

Speaking of movement, if hellhounds (and possible vairants) are fast, they just got so much better. That means they can move and fire the heavy bolter with the inferno cannon again, or move 12 and fire the inferno cannon by itself. My favorite tank could possibly be my even more favorite...er.

All in all, the Spanish rumors bundle is suspect, because the originator claims to have scans of the relevant pages, and are we to believe he would not post said scans anywhere? Absolutely not.

sounds like a load of bullshwacky to me, but, I dunno. maybe some of it. av13 side armor sounds good, but I'd rather 11 rear anyday with all of the lightning fast melee units in 40k that just love to eat up armor! I'm sick of auto-penetrating attacks against my behind! Heck, I personally think that the mighty Leamen Russ deserves a 14/12/12 value by the way it is described in the fluff (actually at a minimum to be 1/2 accurate).
Heavy 20?! Sounds fine to me although I'd still rather run a LRBT personally...
Yeah, this seems like doody.

I do notice that the Exterminator has gotten a bump from heavy 2 to heavy 4, twin-linked. The meatgrinder is back with a vengeance.

BolS cleaned up the translation a bit and came with this:

TROOPS

Penal Battalion: 50 pts. 1 Custodian and 9 Penal troopers. Ld 8. Rifle and close combat weapons. Scouts, Stubborn, "Desperate".

Chimera: 55 pts. 12 10 10 Tank, Amphibious, Mobile Command Vehicle. Multi-laser, hull Heavy Bolter, searchlight and smoke launchers. Options: Upgrade Multi-laser to Heavy Flamer or Heavy Bolter - free; hull Heavy Bolter to Heavy Flamer - free; Storm Bolter or Heavy Stubber +10pts, Hunter-Killer Missile +10pts, Dozer Blade +10 pts, Extra Armour +15pts, Camo Netting +20pts.

FAST ATTACK

Hellhound: 12 12 10 Tank, Fast. Inferno Cannon: 12" Template, S6 AP4 Heavy 1 (like the previous version but there is no roll to hit and no partials, but reaches 12").

Devildog: 12 12 10 Tank, Fast. Fusion Cannon: 24" S8 AP1 Heavy 1, Blast, "Fusion".

Banewolf: 12 12 10 Tank, Fast. Chemical Cannon: S1 AP3 Heavy 1, Template, Poison (wounds on a 2+ to "targets with resistance").

HEAVY SUPPORT

- Leman Russ Special Rule: Can choose to move 6" and fire all weapons or fire nothing and move 6" +1D6".

LR Battle Tank: 14 13 10 Tank. Battle Cannon.

LR Exterminator: 14 13 10 Tank. Exterminator Autocannon: Heavy 4, Twin-linked.

LR Vanquisher: 14 13 10 Tank. Vanquisher Cannon: AP2 Heavy 1, +1D6 penetration.

LR Eradicator: 14 13 10 Tank. Eradicator Nova Cannon: 36" S6 AP4 Heavy 1, Large Blast, Ignores cover saves.

LR Demolisher: 14 13 11 Tank. Demolisher Siege Cannon.

LR Punisher: 14 13 11 Tank. Punisher Gatling Cannon: 24" S5 AP- Heavy 20.

LR Executioner: 14 13 11 Tank. Executioner Plasma Cannon: 36" S7 AP2 Heavy 3.

Basilisk: 12 10 10 Tank, Open Topped^.

Medusa: 12 10 10 Tank, Open Topped^. Medusa Siege Gun: 36" S10 AP2, Heavy Artillery 1, Large Blast. "Fortification Buster" Ammunition: 48" S10 AP1 Heavy 1, Blast, +1D6 penetration.

Colossus: 12 10 10 Tank, Open Topped^. Colossus Siege Cannon: 24-240" S6 AP3 Heavy Artillery 1, Large Blast, Ignores cover saves.

Griffon: 12 10 10 Tank, Open Topped^. Griffon Heavy Mortar: 12-48" S6 AP4 Heavy Artillery 1, Large Blast, can choose to "repeat" (re-roll?) deviation dice roll.

Manticore: 12 10 10 Tank. Storm Eagle Missile: 4 only. 24-120" S10 AP4 Heavy Artillery 1D3, Large Blast.

Deathstrike: 12 12 10 Tank. Deathstrike Missile: 1 only. 12"-960" S10 AP1 Heavy Artillery***, Blast (radius 1D3+3").
Special Rules:
- Cannot be fired on Turn 1. Each turn roll a D6, weapon can be fired on a 6. Modifiers: +1 per turn, -1 for each crew stunned or weapon destroyed results sustained. Can always be fired on the roll of a natural 6.
- Any weapon destoyed results received are ignored, the only effect they have is to delay the launch.
- Hits on vehicles in the area of the Deathstrike Missile are not calculated at half strength but at S10.

^These four can also be enclosed.


Thats it ... I have heard on the other hand, from the same guy who took the photos, that:

Ogryns: 25 pts, S5 T5 A3 Sv4+ and have "rabid assault" (Furious Charge?).

Valkyrie: Skimmer. 24" move. Troops may disembark at any point in its movement, but more than 12" and they take a dangerous terrain check.

Conscripts: Gone.

==============================

***Note that in the original Spanish, no quantity is given for the number of area effect markers for the Deathstrike. Ref 1D3 on the Manticore.

~One, BoLS has heard confirmation on the Deathstrike, so I wouldn't immediately discount all of this stuff. There are certainly some translation issues with some of the special rules, and ranges during the cm-inches conversions, so watch out for those. Still, that is some really cool stuff in there. As usual with these, caveat emptor. Still, Heavy 20...thats crazy talk!!!

LR Punisher: 14 13 11 Tank. Punisher Gatling Cannon: 24" S5 AP- Heavy 20.

Ghfazrogkle!#@$!@#@

I mean, are we in Apoc or what?

Perhaps GW has included some Apoc data sheets in the codex. I can see it happen. It appears that Apocalypse has been a resounding succes and they wish to promote it even further. Who knows?

Well, the Punisher does have a Gatling cannon of sorts, so I'd say this is a cheap copy of the marine assault cannon. This one doesn't rend and has no AP value, fair enough to me.

I'm curious about the Catachans. I hope they're in the same line as the HW squads (not only thinner arms, but better torsos, heads, legs, etc). That might get me back to buying a few squads.

Heavy 20 is too far-fetched. But fun if true and realistically priced though, without AP, it'd only be good against some monstruous creatures and 6+ save orks.

And regarding the movement, if the rumours were translated from spanish, keep in mind that it's in cm, not inches. 1" = 2.5 cm (which makes the 3 up there confusing).

Have to agree on that one, the"Heavy 20" thing does cast this thing in doubt, doesn't it?

This isn't APOCALYPSE.

Well, not yet!

Maybe the heavy 20 is a combination of the sponsons and turret mounted weapons?

Why is heavy 20 so unreasonable, when its only about as effective as a demolisher cannon and is fitted on the same chassis? I agree its abnormal, but not ridiculous as far as the end result.

Heavy 20 is something for Guard though, who don't have to stick to the "rites of preserving His munitions" and believe that obscene fire power is better than taking your time to make a perfect aimed shot.

I was personally thinking that it's the same shooting as 20 Firewarriors (with slightly less range). Not exactly a gamebreaker if it costs enough, plus it's easier to silence from range.

Plus unlike those pesky pulse rifles the gatling blaster doesn't have an AP value. And she'll be BS3 so nothing to worry about.

The Space Marine Assault cannon is supposed to be a heavy duty machine gun with a very high RoF and only amounts to 4.

Is it laser based? That could explain the higher number of shots.

Personally I'd love it to be a solid shot based weapon, mainly because the idea of that weapon belching out large amounts of brass and needing extra hoppers of ammo to keep it stocked.

Though it will most likely be an energy weapon, the Macharius Vulcan only has enough ammo for 14 seconds of fire, so a smaller Russ would need a trailer for all that ammo if it were solid shot.

Are all those new tanks getting new plastic kits?

That is GW's plan.

Just not any time soon.

Enter Forge World!

aka_mythos wrote:Why is heavy 20 so unreasonable, when its only about as effective as a demolisher cannon and is fitted on the same chassis? I agree its abnormal, but not ridiculous as far as the end result.

because it would be spitting out more bullets when mounted on a standard vehicle than the vulcan megabolter which is the best anti-infantry TITAN sized weapon. i certainly hope some official news starts coming out about the codex as the rumors seem to be getting wilder and wilder.

livingregret wrote:

Chimera 55pts; 12/10/10; Standard with Multilaser and hull heavy bolter; Upgrade Multilaser to Heavy Bolter or heavy flamer for free; storm bolter or heavy stubber +10pts; Hunter killer Missile 10pts; Dozer Blade +10; extra armor +15; camo net +20.

This is all very plausible. I have also heard rumor you can upgrade the multi-laser to a twin-linked Heavy Bolter for +10. And this isn't the first time we've seen/heard this floating around

Not only plausible, we've already seen it essentially confirmed, thanks to Forgeworld.

warboss wrote:because it would be spitting out more bullets when mounted on a standard vehicle than the vulcan megabolter which is the best anti-infantry TITAN sized weapon. i certainly hope some official news starts coming out about the codex as the rumors seem to be getting wilder and wilder.

I guess we are just going to not count the VULKINS more than double range , Higher Strength , AP3 in this objection ?

On average it will only kill 2-3 Marines or 5-6 boys , so where is it wildly over powered ?

Sincity

Heavy20 S5 ap- is not really that nasty. It would only drop 20/9 (2.22) MEQ or about 5.5 Orks/IG (and that is out of cover), nothing game breaking imho. And depending on what the points come out to, you may be better off taking HW squads or other tanks.



I am liking what I am hearing so far, most of it (not all) seems plausible. I will continue to remain a optimist

I'm dubious about a great deal of this.

If the 20 s5 shots is true, I doubt I'll bother with that variant to be honest. It's not an optimal weapon vs 3+ saves and we've got plenty of other torrent weapon options already. Why use a heavy support slot for torrent weapons when there are better choices available?

But I'm cynical and have a hard time liking weapons that dont have AP3 or better.

Depending on the strength of the shot, it is actually one of the better things to aim towards some Terminators.

Sadly, high rate of fire/forcing lots of saves lead to dead Marines in suits designed to work inside reactor type environments...

Around when can we expect some pics to be leaked?

My curiosity bug is killing me !

Don't forget you might be able to add sponson and front guns to those 20 shots.

That sounds much more realistic.

The leman Russ move and shoot everything or not shoot and go d6" makes sense now. Its like slow and purposeful for tanks and justifies them being able to fire more weapons than a regular tank. It means they are really slow, which also explains the increase in armor on the sides.

And yeah, quit whinning about a heavy 20, str 5 ap - gun, it is not so bad as it looks. First off, its only 24" range, which is nothing to get excited about. The more dice you throw the closer you come to statistical average every time. Look at the numbers, its not that hot, I think a demolisher cannon is better against everything but demon princes and TMC's.

The 12 inches on the inferno cannon is a bit crappy although now it fires like a template weapon which is an improvement, and now the hellhound can move 12" and shoot, which is cool (assuming the rumors are true of course). That menas it shoots once and gets assaulted and dies unfortunately.

That chemical gun must not shoot, it must be just a template from the barrel of the gun, which sucks. You have to drive right up to the squad to nuke it. It kills like nothing else, but then it dies. A suicide tank, not too sure about that, although it would be murder on deepstrikers or drop pods.

This looks really fun if its true.

And like I had said previously, they would not have to make a new tank for everything, just different barrel options for the turrets for the hllhounds and leman russes.

The indirect weapons though would require a bit more as a manticore would need a lot of plastic to make those big missles.

But, look at the new storm lord, that box comes with 6 weapon options. I bet they do this for the new tank kits so each one can be built into a lot of different tanks.

The deathstrike still sounds a bit much to me. Its whacky which is cool, but it is just a little too wacky for regular 40K. Maybe its a big giant model that is easy to shoot, who knows. We will have to wait and see. My call is probably not on that, but I would not be shocked to see if it makes it in.

LunaHound wrote:
Around when can we expect some pics to be leaked?

My curiosity bug is killing me !

Pics would be appreciated.

"boot camp" sounds believable but:
Why is those spanish source quoting an english book and we have nothing about this from any native english speaker?
Next time rumors may come from the french......

And yeah, quit whinning about a heavy 20, str 5 ap - gun

It's not whining, it's the inner kid shouting YAY!!! because if it's true they'll have to release a model for it.

hahaha, true, I am with you on that. A big gatling gun or something similar on a russ hull would be sweet!

I kindof like the heavy 20 gun. Weighty firepower still gives the axe to 2+ saving termies/w.e. and I doubt it will be any more than 140 points. I can easily imagine running two or three of these with a crap-ton of guardsmen (assuming they fix kill points) and some attached heavy weapons teams. last night I played a 2v2 game with IG/IG vs. failcrons and spess marines and the clear winner of the match was the allmighty lasgun... okay the basilisk did help! 2 LRBT's and 2 Demolishers were on the table and they killed far less than gool od' lasguns. heavy 20 w/ str 5? That will force alot if saves so it sounds like a game changer!

Heavy 20 would also be better vs combat squads. (Max 20 hits, as opposed to five). Just to asume you get 10 hits, 7 wounds, 2-3 Marines Die, as opposed to 1 in 3 chances of getting a direct hit (At which your target is pretty much doomed)
Still kinda Skeptical.

Well thank the emperor people aren't running around saying that all these tanks is just "wishful thinking" because that made no sense to me at all....

Currently, the rumors that people seem okay w/, does not do a whole lot to remedy IG current problems. A point drop on the basic guys is a must considering that we are the same point cost as an Ork w/ way worse stats/weapons.
Also a drop in our transport is expected because most every transport has been getting cheaper
Ogryns getting a buff is good news but they are not uber elite smashy units. They are a tarpit unit to tie up enemies for more than 1 turn hopefully...

But what would be getting to make us competitive and/or sell more? Storm Troopers that jump out of fast moving Valkarie and shoot something before dying in retaliation? Seems like they will remove the ol Suicide Drop Pod Team and replace them w/ the hopefully more livable Storm Troopers. But really...we are still T3 models that die to anything and very little ability to maneuver and capture points. Sooo what can we get to deal w/ threats and be in theme w/ IG? Tanks. More tanks. People get all crazy about tanks and GW knows that. New tanks variations help current customers purchase more and brings in new customers as well. I am all for the new tanks and I am now hesitating on getting more Chimera until I know for sure if/how they are recutting them.

Edit: As for Heavy 20....it's only 24" range w/ no AP and BS 3. Do the math people...that is not scary. It will draw lots of shooting because people will "MY GOD!! 20 SHOTS!!?!?!??!?!" until it shoots....than people go "Oh....4 saves on my marines? That's it?...really?.......okay....."
Not that I completely buy it either but we are Guardsmen who believe overwhelming fire power will save the day

Heavy 20 str 5 isn't that impressive. It's not what gets me to disbelieve these rumors. It's the heavy 3 plasma canon. That doesn't exist.

BOLS said they had further confirmation of the deathstrike missle launcher, so who knows.

ShumaGorath wrote:Heavy 20 str 5 isn't that impressive. It's not what gets me to disbelieve these rumors. It's the heavy 3 plasma canon. That doesn't exist.

Kinda like how the thunderfire cannon didn't exist for Space Marines right? Heavy 4 60" range blast that can ignore cover AND boost the cover save of some ruins? Crazy...


Just saying that it is possible

edit: or really for that matter who saw Nob Bikers w/ feel no pain? Or Ork Armies that could actually out shoot other people? Or Marines that could Deep strike and attempt to assault? Or Chapter Masters leading the armies in what basically amounts to Skirmishes? Or a Speeder that carried scouts? I am just saying that every book has come out w/ something that a lot of people didn't see coming....so a Plasma cannon heavy 3 gun is possible

No, I expected all of that. None of it sounded far fetched to me. This does.

So, no autocannon for Chimeras? :( Fooey.

I just hope I can have my ogryns jump out of Valkyrie... not really but it would look cool.

aka_mythos wrote:I just hope I can have my ogryns jump out of Valkyrie... not really but it would look cool.

I bet you're jealous that my Krootoxen can charge out of hovering devilfish.

I can dig the Heavy20 shot tank. I mean,a mob of 10 Lootas have the possibility of firing 30 S7 AP4 shots at 48 inches? (I don't care about how many hit/wound). No one seems to voice out about that. This looks very promising for a lot of things. I see myself having lots of "count as" Leman Russes.

I've heard that the Vanquisher cannon can fire through hills.

BYE

"This is my Vanquisher cannon....it shoots through schools." *evilgrin*

It's not the Heavy 20 that's got me skeptical (well maybe a little bit.) I'm sure a lot of it is rooted in fact (If the Deathstrike is confirmed by BoLS, then I guess anything is possible), but I feel that we aren't seeing the final numbers. I'll be surprised if GW actually increases all LR to side armor 13. Maybe the "heavy" LR's like the Demolisher, but I can't see LR MBT getting a 14 13 10 statline AND squadrons.

The named variants of the Hellhound also don't ring right with me. I can see Hellhound's being able to upgrade the Inferno Cannon to a Melta Cannon/Chemical Cannon for X points, but I doubt they'll have separate named entries in the codex... unless they're presented like Land Speeders (Tornado, Typhoon, etc.)

I don't see the Punisher Cannon's Heavy 20 as broken... just annoying. Assault cannon's are Heavy 4, Scatter Lasers are Heavy 6, Vulcan Mega-Bolters are Heavy 15... This thing spits out a greater torrent? They better model it as 4 or 5 Gatling-esque barrels.

To be fair, I hope the "lumbering" rule for LR's, stats for Ogryn, Fast Hellhounds w/variants, and the Valkyrie deployment rules all prove true, because they sound like a lot of fun.

As an IG player I'm getting excited about this codex, but on the other hand, I'm not looking forward to playing against some of the soon to be many first-time IG players... "Okay, let me move my 150 Guardsmen... Now to fire my punisher cannon... Where's my dice? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6..." We'll be able to time games with a calendar. /snob

I'm mostly happy about the change in Chimera costs, as my mechanised boys can now afford that one extra track in my 1k army. And new tanks are never a bad thing.

THE NEW vALKYRIE LOOKS BADA$$

Has anyone heard if they are going to keep priests in the list? I can't get enough of the chainsaw weilding sobs

A.A.C.

The "Eradicator" seems to be based off a librarium online poster's fan-vehicle. http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/rules-development/114573-leman-russ-eradicator.html

if these 20 shot thing of doom is true maybe it will have rending or auto pinning just a thought

skullspliter888 wrote:if these 20 shot thing of doom is true maybe it will have rending or auto pinning just a thought

with 24" range it had better... if they are that close it's almost too late!

Let's imagine for a minute the Punisher turret looks like a mini VMB turret. Lets imagine it is in fact a mini VMB. The VMB can move and fire 15, or stay still and fire 30.

If the Punisher had the "all power to the weapons!" rule, where it could either fire 10 shots and do something else, or just sit tight and fire 20, it would suddenly fit quite nicely.

Just a suggestion.

Or maybe it's like that malcador with the heavy bolters pointing in 4 directions, so maybe it's 5 front, 5 left, 5 right, 5 back = 20 shots?

Nuclear Mekanik wrote:Let's imagine for a minute the Punisher turret looks like a mini VMB turret. Lets imagine it is in fact a mini VMB. The VMB can move and fire 15, or stay still and fire 30.

If the Punisher had the "all power to the weapons!" rule, where it could either fire 10 shots and do something else, or just sit tight and fire 20, it would suddenly fit quite nicely.

Just a suggestion.

Mind you, only the Stormlord has the option to stand still and fire twice. The Warhound and Macharius can't.

Who's Robin Cruddace and has he written a codex before?

stonefox wrote:Who's Robin Cruddace and has he written a codex before?

He's the new guy who is with the design studio for about 18 months now, he has helped with the Lizardman army book.

Out of curiosity to his work, how did the lizardmen book turn out?

I think its great GW has let him do so much. Even if only half of all this is correct, he's still managed to pack it in.

I think the Lizardmen have had a nice power boost. Time will tell of course, but I don't think they are as powerful as Daemons or VC. They should be very, very competitive though.

These rumors are like a trip to the Neverland Ranch: I don't really trust them, but they touch my happy place.

I do also note that the plasma LR doesn't say it has blasts, but rather just Heavy 3. That might not be too bad at all. Then again, if it costs as much as a Dev squad with 3-4 plasma cannons with a lower BS and the ability to be stunned/shaken, that is not horrible.

So if VC/Daemons is at the top, are Lizardmen 2nd tier with High Elves or lower, or even at the bottom like the Tomb Kings?

I'm just excited by all this talk of tanks! How many are in this new codex? This sounds like a serious IG compendium of a codex already!

To temper my own enthusiasm though, not much of this will matter until the models are released. As excited as I am by all the goodies, if we don't see them for a year (as was the case with the battlewagon) then it'll be a long dry-spell befoe any of these new toys see battle.

I'll definitely pick up a valkyrie though. Does anyone know if it will come witha flyign stand of some sort? Or do I stil have to make my own?

The word is that it does come with a flying stand.

i'm scared of flying stands. in my experience flying stands are your model's way of saying "hey, knock me over please". But maybe they can put something together that's better than the old flying bases with the teeny little peg that always breaks off.

I'm planning to get 2 valkyries, 1 for each stormtrooper squad I have.

I dunno what to do with the tanks though, I mostly just play apocalypse anymore and I'm thinking of just squadonizing what I have now. I know if I start adding new tanks I'm gonna wanna squadronize them too and I'm too poor for that :(

That's all depending on the Pts cost, maybe that's a New dakkafex or dakkaruss for IG, who knows.

These are easily adapted for use with GW flying bases. I set up a Hammerhead and Devilfish in about 20 minutes, all said and done, and they work well. There's a bit of sanding necessary, but it's pretty easy.

20 Str 5 shots, plus the three heavy bolters for a grand total of 29 str 5 shots. Or 3 dead marines, maybe 8 boys. Cool but not game breaking.

Not at all, people get a little too excited about it seeing the shots. Who wants to bet the cries of cheese will come long without any rational backing as soon as the dex hits? As long as these rumors turn out to be true of course.

I don't like your mathhammer foil, not that I'm questioning it, I just don't like it.

Not that I have any insight to back me up, but I call 'bogus' on these Spanish rumors. I just can't see GW supporting that many types of vehicles for one army. I can believe 3-4 different types of vehicles in a box (i.e. LRBT, Vanquisher, Exterminator, Demolisher), but 7? Nah, man. I think the new Heavy 4, Twin-Linked Exterminator is wish-listing based on the weird picture in the 5E Rulebook. Not to mention the fact that treadheads have a whole slew of FW armor that they'd love to be able to play in regular games of 40k and this is what GW "supposedly" is going to give us? I'm not above eating crow when the time comes if this stuff is true, but this just seems way too OTT. Some of it, maybe. But all of it? Nah, man - bogus.

Wehrkind wrote:These rumors are like a trip to the Neverland Ranch: I don't really trust them, but they touch my happy place.

Hehe I just had to sig that

Death By Monkeys wrote:Not that I have any insight to back me up, but I call 'bogus' on these Spanish rumors. I just can't see GW supporting that many types of vehicles for one army. I can believe 3-4 different types of vehicles in a box (i.e. LRBT, Vanquisher, Exterminator, Demolisher), but 7? Nah, man. I think the new Heavy 4, Twin-Linked Exterminator is wish-listing based on the weird picture in the 5E Rulebook. Not to mention the fact that treadheads have a whole slew of FW armor that they'd love to be able to play in regular games of 40k and this is what GW "supposedly" is going to give us? I'm not above eating crow when the time comes if this stuff is true, but this just seems way too OTT. Some of it, maybe. But all of it? Nah, man - bogus.

I think the fact that one of these rumored new tanks is basically a direct copy from a LO poster's fan-made tank further suggests that these rumors are junk. Add to this conflicting LR armor values, conflicting chimera weapon options, and as you said the fact that GW will most likely not crank out a million new parts for variants that might not individually sell much.

Plus these rumors make me happy and if GW's past codex designs for my armies are any indication (chaos ) Then GW does not want me to be happy.

ph34r wrote:conflicting chimera weapon options

What conflicting Chimera Weapon Options? These are direct Copy-n-Paste from the Imperial Armour Vol. 2 Errata stats for the Chimera, which, knowing Forge World's propensity for Copy-n-Paste of rules, are probably directly from the new Guard Codex.

To which those bastards are yet to reply to! We've sent a message regarding the new Chimera stats there some time ago and they must probably be "swamped" by work again as they don't pick up their phones or answer their e-mails.

I think by conflicting Chimera options it's more to do with the Multi-Melta and Chemical Cannon Chimeras, both of which sounds stupid.

And I agree that the Heavy 4 Exterminator is just wishlisting based upon that pic from the 5th Ed rulebook.

And I don't care if BoLS has heard other rumours about the Deathstrike, it's still stupid to have in regular 40K.

BYE

Come on, you don't think you'll need 80 foot range in a game of regular 40k (or even apoc)?!

Absurd.

H.B.M.C. wrote:And I don't care if BoLS has heard other rumours about the Deathstrike, it's still stupid to have in regular 40K.

While I do admit to checking on the Taco Bell of Lost Souls for rumors overlooked here on Dakka, I don't consider it the be-all, end-all source for rumors. If I want confirmation of something, I'll go to Brimmstone or Yakface.

Death By Monkeys wrote:If I want confirmation of something, I'll go to Brimmstone or Yakface.

Can't say as to Brimstone, but when I played against Yak last month with my Guard, it seems he knows(at least then) really only what we know concerning Guard. Either he wasn't saying anything(would be odd considering what other things we talked about) or his contacts weren't talking about it to him.

Of course, I'm not actually Yakface, so take this as the hearsay it rather is.

Platuan4th wrote:Can't say as to Brimstone, but when I played against Yak last month with my Guard, it seems he knows(at least then) really only what we know concerning Guard. Either he wasn't saying anything(would be odd considering what other things we talked about) or his contacts weren't talking about it to him.

Of course, I'm not actually Yakface, so take this as the hearsay it rather is.

No, I understand that - I'm not saying that Yakface and Brimmstone are all-knowing, but when either one of them does comes out to make a definitive statement about whether or not a rumor is true, I haven't seen 'em be wrong yet.

Death By Monkeys wrote:No, I understand that - I'm not saying that Yakface and Brimmstone are all-knowing, but when either one of them does comes out to make a definitive statement about whether or not a rumor is true, I haven't seen 'em be wrong yet.

No doubt, just speculating as to why Yak may not have said anything for or against.

Give them time, they either haven't read this yet or they're checking with their spies. We shall see.

Heavy 4 twin-lined autocannons on the Leman Russ sounds a LOT like what a Hydra Anti-Air tank is armed with...but it's on a 12/10/10 Chimera Chassis...

March 21st - Imperial Guard Black Box !

I will be taking the day off to build whatever cool models come with it, and reading the advance copy of the codex! Hopefully it will be a sunny day, so I can take a gallon of wine and a bag of cheesey poofs, and sit out on my lawn.

I'll think of all of you while I'm in my happy spot.

mikhaila wrote:March 21st - Imperial Guard Black Box !

I will be taking the day off to build whatever cool models come with it, and reading the advance copy of the codex!

The Amazing Kreskin predicts there will be a Valkyrie in the box!

I like that voxs may do somthing now. Early on I modeled them on my guys cause I liked the look but it was useless.

mikhaila wrote:March 21st - Imperial Guard Black Box !

The what?

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:

mikhaila wrote:March 21st - Imperial Guard Black Box !

The what?

BYE

Partnership level stores in the US are allowed to purchase a 'Black Box' once a month, that comes with preview material. It's actually is a black box, with a sticker that looks like a purity seal. Sometimes it's just some sprues of upcoming models. Other times it's a book and some bitz. The last one was a Stompa! Before that, the Lizarmen book, stegadon, and 10 templeguard.

Does it arrive via UPS? What time does your UPS guy usually come? How long do you wait before you notify the authorities if he doesn't show up?

Necros wrote:Does it arrive via UPS? What time does your UPS guy usually come? How long do you wait before you notify the authorities if he doesn't show up?

I'll keep you on speed dial. We can grab Tony and a case of beer and all go sit on my lawn together. That Leviathan you're making could probably double as a beer cooler.

ph34r wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:Not that I have any insight to back me up, but I call 'bogus' on these Spanish rumors. I just can't see GW supporting that many types of vehicles for one army. I can believe 3-4 different types of vehicles in a box (i.e. LRBT, Vanquisher, Exterminator, Demolisher), but 7? Nah, man. I think the new Heavy 4, Twin-Linked Exterminator is wish-listing based on the weird picture in the 5E Rulebook. Not to mention the fact that treadheads have a whole slew of FW armor that they'd love to be able to play in regular games of 40k and this is what GW "supposedly" is going to give us? I'm not above eating crow when the time comes if this stuff is true, but this just seems way too OTT. Some of it, maybe. But all of it? Nah, man - bogus.

I think the fact that one of these rumored new tanks is basically a direct copy from a LO poster's fan-made tank further suggests that these rumors are junk. Add to this conflicting LR armor values, conflicting chimera weapon options, and as you said the fact that GW will most likely not crank out a million new parts for variants that might not individually sell much.

Plus these rumors make me happy and if GW's past codex designs for my armies are any indication (chaos ) Then GW does not want me to be happy.

ph34r wrote:The "Eradicator" seems to be based off a librarium online poster's fan-vehicle. http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/rules-development/114573-leman-russ-eradicator.html

I'm going to point out that the eradicator you linked to:
Av 14/12/10
R24 S6 AP4 Heavy (undecided)
With an option to upgrade armor both side and rear armor.
Then in the last post the original poster decided just to make it twin linked assault cannons.

The rumor:
Leman Russ Eradicator
Av 14/13/10
R36 S6 AP4 Heavy 1, Large Blast , Ignores Cover

The only things the same are the S6 AP4, and thats a common enough stat combination. The rumored eradicator is a "Nova Cannon" the fan thingy is an assault cannon. I really don't see this as being the origin of this rumor; maybe if they were identical but they aren't.

Not another Nova Cannon! That's, what, three now, all completely unrelated to each other?

This one will fire missiles, so we'll have one energy-based Nova Cannon, a ballistic Nova Cannon and a missile Nova Cannon.

But which one is canon?

*rimshot*

BYE

livingregret wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Heavy 20 str 5 isn't that impressive. It's not what gets me to disbelieve these rumors. It's the heavy 3 plasma canon. That doesn't exist.

Kinda like how the thunderfire cannon didn't exist for Space Marines right? Heavy 4 60" range blast that can ignore cover AND boost the cover save of some ruins? Crazy...


Just saying that it is possible

edit: or really for that matter who saw Nob Bikers w/ feel no pain? Or Ork Armies that could actually out shoot other people? Or Marines that could Deep strike and attempt to assault? Or Chapter Masters leading the armies in what basically amounts to Skirmishes? Or a Speeder that carried scouts? I am just saying that every book has come out w/ something that a lot of people didn't see coming....so a Plasma cannon heavy 3 gun is possible

The thunder fire cannon did exist before in 2ed it was the thud gun

aka_mythos wrote:The only things the same are the S6 AP4, and thats a common enough stat combination. The rumored eradicator is a "Nova Cannon" the fan thingy is an assault cannon. I really don't see this as being the origin of this rumor; maybe if they were identical but they aren't.

I didn't believe it initially when it was suggested to me but given how ridiculous these rumors sound it seemed like a more plausible explanation. Fudge the armor values to match all the other new tanks, and change the shot type of the gun to be different than the "20-shotinator" and bam. It is a bit of a stretch, and I would be happy for all these rumors to be true, but it seemed too similar. I can't wait to see more concrete information.

sonofruss wrote:The thunder fire cannon did exist before in 2ed it was the thud gun

No, the Thudd Gun was the Thudd Gun, and the Thudd Gun is now this. The Thunderfire is an invention created out of the necessity to sell new products. GW has reached the point where re-cutting the Tactical Squad sprue and re-releasing it again is neither popular nor economically sound, therefore things have to be added to the fluff. Hence, a combined Thudd Gun/Mole Mortar.

BYE

Well, the Imperium "discovers" new tank types all the time these days. Soon they'll discover four new super-heavy variants and it wont be long until several forge worlds are found that produce special types of Hellhounds and Russ tanks.

Speaking of the Thunderfire Cannon, I'm really surprised that none of the IG rumors have involved bringing back the Thudd Gun / Rapier / Mole Mortar / Tarantula. (Or else designing similar new weapons.) Artillery of that sort seems to be more fluffy for IG than for Space Marines.

If GW doesn't come out with artillery for IG this time around, I'm going to mail my Codex to Jervis in a fit of pique!

Well, we are getting more mechanized artillery with the upcoming codex. If you want lighter field artillery or towed pieces, look to Forge World and their Siege Company list, which relies heavily on these weapons.

My burning fiery jealousy about the "Black Box" knows NO BOUNDS!

ph34r wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:The only things the same are the S6 AP4, and thats a common enough stat combination. The rumored eradicator is a "Nova Cannon" the fan thingy is an assault cannon. I really don't see this as being the origin of this rumor; maybe if they were identical but they aren't.

I didn't believe it initially when it was suggested to me but given how ridiculous these rumors sound it seemed like a more plausible explanation. Fudge the armor values to match all the other new tanks, and change the shot type of the gun to be different than the "20-shotinator" and bam. It is a bit of a stretch, and I would be happy for all these rumors to be true, but it seemed too similar. I can't wait to see more concrete information.

Too similar? All leman russ' are technically similar. I think the naming is coincidental. I bet anyone here could dig up a random homebrew rule set online with similar names to the other new variants, not because a rumor is ripping off an online source but because there is a naming convention. That convention lends itself to coincidence. The demolisher relative to a battle tank is one fudge of armor value and shot change of weapon different, and so is every other variant.

I don't think they sound that ridiculous. They are pretty consistent with rumors and statement that were commented on it before it came out.

We are suppose to get 23 vehicles; that was from some one who spoke with codex' author. Those 23 different vehicles have to come from somewhere. There had even been rumors of a heavy 20 weapon. Additionally, we're suppose to see an "equal" representation of armored tanks and artillery. This seems to have that. It was rumored that there were 3 hellhound variants including, the hellhound. There were rumors of a lumbering sort of movement that allowed LR's to fire all weapons. All this was out before these rumors surfaced. Nothing in the rumors are "broken," some are abnormal and unconventional but not broken. Could these rumors be a pure fabrication? Yes, but if that's the case whoever came up with them did so consistently based on other rumors.

Yes the black box also goes to all the GW stores, they use to simply get material much further in advance than they do now. Once upon time, way back when, we use to get things 6+ months in advance. Advance codexes, models and all that jazz....now they get the "black box" anywhere from 1+ month away from actual release to build hype and, hopefully,have models to show off

I like the odds of killing 20 orcs in the open with the heavy 20 gun

it will happen once out of every 1.5 billion rolls maybe

mikhaila wrote: Partnership level stores in the US are allowed to purchase a 'Black Box' once a month, that comes with preview material. It's actually is a black box, with a sticker that looks like a purity seal. Sometimes it's just some sprues of upcoming models. Other times it's a book and some bitz. The last one was a Stompa! Before that, the Lizarmen book, stegadon, and 10 templeguard.

That explains a lot. I was wondering why the Lizardmen loot I had won in a paint contest were all in a black shoe box with a purity seal and no boxes or instructions on how to put it all together...

Speaking of which, anyone want some Temple Guard and a Stegadon so I can fund my IG expenditures?

Recent update from Boot Camp - Mkoll has stated that the big list of Hellhound and Leman Russ variants are, to quote him, "most if not all are wishlisting and fake".

And speaking of Mkoll, I've got another post with more updates from him coming up.

aka_mythos wrote:The demolisher relative to a battle tank is one fudge of armor value and shot change of weapon different, and so is every other variant.

I don't think they sound that ridiculous. They are pretty consistent with rumors and statement that were commented on it before it came out.

By "fudge armor value" I don't mean change randomly, I mean change it to match the other tanks. The demolisher AV does not match the Leman Russ, has different str, and AP, in addition to a large change in range. Changing AV to be more in line with other rumors and then changing the shot type =/= changing every aspect of a weapon and vehicle.
Also how is the deathstrike not ridiculous sounding? 960" range? Really? I could believe any of these rumors, but they conflict with some other rumors (ones about lowering LR AV that I hope are indeed false), the proposed chimera rules are missing the turret AC and hull HF options seen on the IA update, and the deathstrike launcher is the deathstrike launcher. The "eradicator" and its similarities with a fan made tank are not the only thing strange about these rumors.

ph34r wrote:the proposed chimera rules are missing the turret AC and hull HF options seen on the IA update

The Autocannon turret was always an Imperial Armor option(along with the Twinlinked Heavy Bolters), not a Codex option, so it's probably remaining that way. As for the Hull Heavy Flamer, from Bell of Lost Souls:

"Chimera: 55 pts. 12 10 10 Tank, Amphibious, Mobile Command Vehicle. Multi-laser, hull Heavy Bolter, searchlight and smoke launchers. Options: Upgrade Multi-laser to Heavy Flamer or Heavy Bolter - free; hull Heavy Bolter to Heavy Flamer - free; Storm Bolter or Heavy Stubber +10pts, Hunter-Killer Missile +10pts, Dozer Blade +10 pts, Extra Armour +15pts, Camo Netting +20pts."

Personally the fact that Brimstone and Yakface have not commented on this thread makes me think that there is some validity to the rumors. If they do have any inside info right now and can not talk about it yet.... Well if these were off the wall a denial would not hurt. But if they are close to the truth....

I HOPE these are true! I'm just aching to get my hands on that new codex....

ph34r wrote:By "fudge armor value" I don't mean change randomly, I mean change it to match the other tanks. The demolisher AV does not match the Leman Russ, has different str, and AP, in addition to a large change in range. Changing AV to be more in line with other rumors and then changing the shot type =/= changing every aspect of a weapon and vehicle.
Also how is the deathstrike not ridiculous sounding? 960" range? Really? I could believe any of these rumors, but they conflict with some other rumors (ones about lowering LR AV that I hope are indeed false), the proposed chimera rules are missing the turret AC and hull HF options seen on the IA update, and the deathstrike launcher is the deathstrike launcher. The "eradicator" and its similarities with a fan made tank are not the only thing strange about these rumors.

I understood what you were saying. My point was that the few similarities are only to the extent as any similarities held by variants of the leman russ tank. That unless you make a ridiculously out there variant of a leman russ it going to be grounded to that fact. And that the most of your similarities are just that sort, you can't vary things enough for a tank to both be a variant and different. The differences are more telling. The concept on the weapon is different, range is different, armor is different, and the special rules for the weapon are different; while the things that are similar are the name, the strength, and the AP. All other similarities are a product of it being a Leman Russ variant.

Before apocalypse I never used the 120" range on my Basilisk, I thought that was kinda ridiculous and just a matter of hyperbole. The same goes for the deathstrike only in that regard. The simple fact is, if you are playing on a 4 foot table, it doesn't matter what that number is because it might as well be 5.5ft (diag.) the max distance across the table. It is a stat that simply doesn't matter. They might as well have called it unlimited range, but its irrelevant because its hyperbole.

skkipper wrote:I like the odds of killing 20 orcs in the open with the heavy 20 gun

it will happen once out of every 1.5 billion rolls maybe

They'll all hit about one time in a million, and assuming strength 4 and no saves will all kill about one time in a trillion. More realistically you're looking at 3-5 boyz a turn, depending on cover.

skkipper wrote:I like the odds of killing 20 orcs in the open with the heavy 20 gun

it will happen once out of every 1.5 billion rolls maybe

According to my mathhammer, you underestimate by a little bit:
- Odds of hitting 20/20 BS3 = 1 million to 1 against.
- Odds of hitting 20/20 *and* wounding 20/20 S5 v T4 = 3.4 Billion to one against.

Your 1 in 1.5 billion is more like killing everything but the Nob.

Death By Monkeys wrote:Recent update from Boot Camp - Mkoll has stated that the big list of Hellhound and Leman Russ variants are, to quote him, "most if not all are wishlisting and fake".

No, really?!?

Death By Monkeys wrote:And speaking of Mkoll, I've got another post with more updates from him coming up.

Maybe start a new thread?