Ain't It Cool News, via Tabletop Gaming News:

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2009/02/12/23271

'Bout damn time!

Need.....plastic.....tiles....confirmed...

Hot diggity! Pretty happy about that. Fantastic game.

Sadly if it is a Major release, ie in stores and not online only, you know the rules will go through a Major overhaul to bring it more inline w/ 5th ed so that new players can easily transfer from simple to start game..to tons of money game.

Look at Necromunda. New rule book, some new models, still older rules for most things and done online. Gorkamorka rerelease? Online only and no rule update.

If they do come out, I hope they don't limit it to just SM and Nids. Would love to bring my Necrons and Daemons to such a thing.

yeah,
It's always a sure thing that spacehulk would happen...
It will sell to the Vets no matter what... fan boys will buy into it too...

It's the details that are missing.
Is this another specialist games release... a PDF...
maybe they will release a book and tiles, sans models?

A whole boxset that they think they can sell in Argos? that's what I'm hoping for...

What ever happens as a FanBoyVet, I'll be buying two sets.

Panic...

Panic wrote:yeah,
It's always a sure thing that spacehulk would happen...
It will sell to the Vets no matter what... fan boys will buy into it too...

It's the details that are missing.
Is this another specialist games release... a PDF...
maybe they will release a book and tiles, sans models?

A whole boxset that they think they can sell in Argos? that's what I'm hoping for...

What ever happens as a FanBoyVet, I'll be buying two sets.

Panic...

Good points!

If the tile sets (plastics?) are good, I'll be buying at least two sets!

You just now this will be another AoBR deal, right?

Well, that's cool by me. Space Hulk was one of the few GW "sideline" games that I didn't try, and I always thought it looked like a lot of fun. More fun than GorkaMorka anyway...

One thing that I did find interesting was the question of what chapter would be used. While I'm an old Blood Angel player I think it would be neat to see the Deathwing get some exposure. I don't play DoW so I could give a flip about the Blood Ravens.

Now, here's a thought. Will this be GW's foray into pre-paints?

talthar wrote:Now, here's a thought. Will this be GW's foray into pre-paints?

Hints from sources say most likely. Then again, there's also talks of it being a slightly different scale from regular 40K, as well.

Call me greedy, but I want them to make cardboard tiles that are compatible with the old tiles.

BYE

I'm excited over new Space Hulk this year, especially if it's multi-tiled. Hopefully, they add rules for other Xenos and Imperials, especially Guard...

If GW would just give a few missions so we could run an Ordo Xenos IG Veteran squad against those 'stealers....

Game Over, man - Game Over!

Plus a new Space Hulk set is more fodder for Dark Heresy floorplans.

BYE

JohnHwangDD wrote:I'm excited over new Space Hulk this year, especially if it's multi-tiled. Hopefully, they add rules for other Xenos and Imperials, especially Guard...

If GW would just give a few missions so we could run an Ordo Xenos IG Veteran squad against those 'stealers....

Game Over, man - Game Over!

You I'd agree, I'd love rules for using dark eldar in space hulk, I can picture them creeping around those corridors now.

Platuan4th wrote:

talthar wrote:Now, here's a thought. Will this be GW's foray into pre-paints?

Hints from sources say most likely. Then again, there's also talks of it being a slightly different scale from regular 40K, as well.

Ugh!

Where are you hearing this?

And what have you heard?

It won't be a good 'gateway drug' for GW if they do this, so I'm not sure that they will...

Yay!!!

Alpharius wrote:
Ugh!

Where are you hearing this?

And what have you heard?

It won't be a good 'gateway drug' for GW if they do this, so I'm not sure that they will...

I had heard if they decide to change the scale(it's a possibility, apparently), it's because they're worried it might cut into the sales of Plastic Terminator Box Sets. 10 termies plus Genestealers for slightly more than the Termie box means almost no one will buy the 5 piece multi-part set.

That and they're contemplating PPP.

That's all I've heard, though.

PPP?

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:PPP?

BYE

PrePainted Plastic, ala AT-43.

Platuan4th wrote:

Alpharius wrote:
Ugh!

Where are you hearing this?

And what have you heard?

It won't be a good 'gateway drug' for GW if they do this, so I'm not sure that they will...

I had heard if they decide to change the scale(it's a possibility, apparently), it's because they're worried it might cut into the sales of Plastic Terminator Box Sets. 10 termies plus Genestealers for slightly more than the Termie box means almost no one will buy the 5 piece multi-part set.

That and they're contemplating PPP.

That's all I've heard, though.

Certain Rackham apologists love to keep bringing up the PPP thing with GW, but I just don't see it happening.

Also, if the Terminators in the Space Hulk set are similar to the ones in AoBR, I think the multi-part set will continue to do just fine.

Ewwww... not as bad as a different scale, but still bad.

I just can't see GW doing that though. GW is always about the 'hobby'. Pre-painted plastics goes against that. So does releasing a set of models that no one can use anywhere else.

BYE

Platuan4th wrote:Then again, there's also talks of it being a slightly different scale from regular 40K, as well.

This would confirm something that I have heard from several sources. Namely that GW was hesitant to release the game as it would cannibalize their sales of Terminators and Genestealers. The markup on the figs in a boxed game would be substantially less than the typical boxed set and they saw the game as a way for people to build their armies on the cheap.

I suspect though that if the game is released that it will just have simpler less detailed figures.

40MM squares would let you put in 4 or 5 genestealers. A good bit of news, however it comes out.

Alpharius wrote:Certain Rackham apologists love to keep bringing up the PPP thing with GW, but I just don't see it happening.

Jervis has flat out said they won't do them.

Platuan4th wrote:I had heard if they decide to change the scale(it's a possibility, apparently), it's because they're worried it might cut into the sales of Plastic Terminator Box Sets. 10 termies plus Genestealers for slightly more than the Termie box means almost no one will buy the 5 piece multi-part set.

Given that the 5-Termie box is grossly overpriced by at least 50% and should cost only $25 or $35 at most, that's perfectly fine.

Besides, with AoBR providing 5 Termies + 10 Tacticals + 1 Dread + rules + templates + lots of Orks, nobody should be buying the Termie box, anyways.

Except those who want things other than Stormbolters.

Or don't want to have to off-load any Orks.

Or extra Marines they don't want/need.

Or want models that can be posed.

Or want to do their own Chapter using FW shoulder pads.

Or want to do Deathwing.

Or want to do Wolf Guard.



Actually John, I can think of a lot of reasons to buy the Termy box over Battle for Black Lagoon.

BYE

I agree that the "not wanting to cut into plastic termie" sales is a kinda weak argument. They did the same thing for the second edition of space hulk, and people still bought termies and genestealers separate. At the time, the terminators and genestealers were identical to what you could buy separate. Hell, I think Space Hulk was the debut of the plastic terminators at the time.

Smaller scale? No way......GW wants it be a gateway for new/other players.

PPP? Not likely.....GW Philosophy is all about the "Hobby Journey" of each person.

Worried about cutting into the price of Genestealers/Termi? Look at AoBR there are terminators in there. Maybe they will make these one a variant different than the AoBr or maybe they won't.

Hmmm, maybe something along these lines?

A supplement, a la 'warhammer skirmish' that gives guidelines on how to use exhisting models and terrain to produce the effect of Space Hulk? Using the existing road packs for corridors and urban terrain cut up to make bulkheads and doors?

Of course tweaking the lists so you HAVE to buy new Terminators and 'Stealer boxes and have to convert to be WYSIWIG and play the game properly. Possibly a repackaging of the Termis from AoBR and the 'stealers from BfM?

No sense in creating a whole new set when you can get people to buy up existing sets to play the 'new' variant. Better to push the sales of existing sets rather than spend the time and money on creating new stuff.

Just a thought, given GW's sales model, but just speculating. Hope it turns out to be a whole new set and supporting minis so I have a whole 'nother game to spend me dracmas on.

whitedragon wrote:Hell, I think Space Hulk was the debut of the plastic terminators at the time.

It was the debut of the second generation plastic Terminators. Up until then we had three types of Terminators:

1. Original RT-Era metal Termies - Quite a bit smaller than what we have today.
2. 2nd Edition metal Termies - Bigger than the RT-era ones, and work quite well with the current Termies when you put them on a 40mm base.
3. 1st Gen Plastic Termies - Single piece ugly monstrosities with clip-on Heavy Flamers.

The original Space Hulk (and Tyranid Attack for that matter) had those Terminators. Soon after we got the only ever plastic Terminator Librarian as well.

Space Hulk 2nd Ed came out, and with it came a few new poses for the Genestealers, and a new set of multi-piece Terminators. They were special because they looked the same as the current metal ones, and you could pose them (turn their waists). As the RT-era metals had been replaced by this stage, for a long time these were the two only Terminator kits until the current plastic Termies (3rd Gen) came out.

If this is supposed to be another GW 'Gateway Drug' (as AICN put it), then having a different scale for the models is a bad idea. Nothing will leave more of a bad taste in Jonny-8-year-old's mouth if he finds out the cool models he bought can't be used with the 'big' game because they're either too big or two small.

BYE

Hmm. If GW did make prepainted models, everyone would repaint them anyway.
So, unless GW has had their head in a sandcastle for the past.... ever, then they won't make prepainted.


Of course, we can't quite rule out the sandcastle theory..........

I can't wait for Space Hulk no matter what the changes are. I'll end up using Chaos Terminators anyways . Unless of course the scale is drastically different. Fortunately I don't think that they will change the scale.

It's Space Hulk, one of the greatest Specialist Games ever released. I've even got it on my cell phone, that's how badass it is

Well they might be "redoing" it like some other games. New rule book($50 online only) and maybe some tile sets that will be overpriced if not in a box deal. Maybe they'll go back to charging $60+ to get the book/tiles/models.

Or maybe they will surprise us and actually release a specialist game that is supported again beyond the intial release like they used to do before stupid LoTr

NO! You can't invoke the 'specialist game' tag! Look what it did to Battle of Five Armies, and LotR was their baby at the time.

Better as a 'supplement' to 40K as in Cities of Death and whatever else is coming down the pipeline and keep it 'mainstream'. The tag 'SG' is just a tombstone.

*** Can I start a thread because I have my 4-69th Post? Heh, heh, heh. ***

Er, was Space Hulk ever a "Specialist Game"?

Wasn't Space Hulk long OOP by the time Specialist Games showed up?

Long OOP yes. It was never a Specialist Game.

BYE

Whatever, you know what I mean. Supplement wouldnt work as a title since it isnt a supplement. Its a whole different rules set. How about I just call it Special Game then?

How 'bout we just call it Space Hulk, and hope we get simple plastic minis in the correct scale and a set of rules that takes the best of 1st and the best of 2nd.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:How 'bout we just call it Space Hulk, and hope we get simple plastic minis in the correct scale and a set of rules that takes the best of 1st and the best of 2nd.

BYE

Sadly that is highly unlikely UNLESS it is only sold in the online store. If it is an actual splash release in the stores....it will not use any of the old rules because that will confuse players

Why, exactly?

Space Hulk was a very simple and very tactical game. And why would you bother re-releasing it if you were going to make a completely different game?

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:Why, exactly?

Space Hulk was a very simple and very tactical game. And why would you bother re-releasing it if you were going to make a completely different game?

BYE

Because it's GW and will likely provide them with more cash.

If it uses the best of the old rules, or even brand new rules... I won't care because it's Space Hulk. I can't see why they would move TOO far away from the old system though.

Heh, from the sounds of things, people seem most excited about the possibility of new sexy terrain in the box (I dont blame them! That would be amazing)

H.B.M.C. wrote:Why, exactly?

Space Hulk was a very simple and very tactical game. And why would you bother re-releasing it if you were going to make a completely different game?

BYE

People seem to think this will be a box release. Box release would entail
Models(hopefully to size)
Tiles
Rulebook

Since Battle of Five Armies they have not released any new starters for the "specialist" games(yes SH was before Specialist games, but it is easier to simple call it a specialist game for now) and even went so far as to discontinue Battle Fleet Gothic Starters. When Necromunda was updated, they received
A new rule book, but still used mainly the older rule sets
Some new Gangs, not all of them where redone, but they did keep them Pewter

I do not see Space Hulk receiving a box set w/ out it being released in a box like starter. They don't seem willing to do that unless it is actually being released in the stores as well, example...look at the "rerelease" Gorkamorka. A lot of people thought new rules due to the new Ork Codex coming out and it was just a pdf of the old book. If that was the case, and they wanted to use it as a way to introduce people into the game like Mordheim use to do(skirmish introduction), than the rules need to remain close to the basics of the rules. Which would imply, to me at least, no 1e or 2e rules really.

Now if they did not do a box set for it and simply released some new tiles...and a new "updated" rule book than great. i would expect a lot of the old rules still in the game and there would be much rejoicing amongst veterans

edit: This also got me thinking...maybe they will be using this to ease into Planet Strike(or whatever the next Apoc expansion is called)? Link it back w BFG even...hardie har har...GW linking the game systems again. har har har

livingregret wrote:Since Mordheim they have not released any new starters for the "specialist" games

Battle of Five Armies received a Starter Box.

Platuan4th wrote:
Battle of Five Armies received a Starter Box.

Alright missed that one and i'll even update my post

I think we're wrong to think of it as a Specialist Game. I don't think that's how GW look at it either.

BYE

You should not think of this as a 'specialist game' release.

When GW sold the rights to many of their games to Fantasy Flight, they held the rights to their 'board games' that use miniatures, such as Space Hulk.

Space Hulk is treated as a stand-alone board game with miniatures that will indeed be released as a boxed set.


And HMBC: What were the positives of 2nd edition? I can't think of a change they made that I didn't hate.

Personally I'm praying for just a return to 1st edition with some of the variant weapon rules from Deathwing (like Assault Cannons, Lightning Claws, Thunder Hammers/Storm Shields, etc) and maybe a totally new psychic system in some advanced rules section.

Oooh, and I would totally love if they added rules for like a Broodlord or something like that.

I didn't see what the big difference between the two was aside from a cleaner set of Heavy Flamer rules. Sure, 2nd Ed didn't have the turn timer, but that's more of a personal preference thing.


And for the love of all that is holy, who in the Emperor's name is HMBC????????



BYE

I reckon it'll be standard scale figures, probably a simple recut of the AoBR Termies plus a couple of heavy flamers or similar, and stealers similar to the Macragge box - cheap as chips to make the moulds, nearly all the design work is already done.

Here's the sneaky sales angle - the back of the rule book will have advanced/optional rules for other weapons and biomorphs not in the included figures, and ever so subtle hints that you can buy the apprpriate model from GW.

Here's the other sneaky sales angle - there will be really cool plastic floor tiles, so that people like me will be forced to run out and buy three sets

I'm not so sure they care about terminator markdowns in a plastic set considering the AOBR terminators and the sheer cost effectiveness of that entire box.

And why would you bother re-releasing it if you were going to make a completely different game?

Name recognition and the preservation of concept. I personally think it will be a new game, more in line with the current ruleset. I fervently hope its a highly tactical game though, 40k needs a small scale tactics based ruleset. Killteam was crap and apocalypse took everything that could have been tactical in a largescale battle and threw it out the window.

I agree, ShumaGorath.

Every set of cheapo terminators sold to an new player is a player wanting more SMs for the rest of his army.

yakface wrote:And HMBC: What were the positives of 2nd edition? I can't think of a change they made that I didn't hate.

Personally I'm praying for just a return to 1st edition with some of the variant weapon rules from Deathwing (like Assault Cannons, Lightning Claws, Thunder Hammers/Storm Shields, etc) and maybe a totally new psychic system in some advanced rules section.

Oooh, and I would totally love if they added rules for like a Broodlord or something like that.

2nd ed had a few things that weren't bad. Viewed from the perspective of somebody enamored with 1st ed, it is easy to see why it is so reviled.

They were basically two different games, but the 2nd ed was still quite good because it offered challenging game play, if not more so than the 1st ed because of those damnable shooting dice. In short, it was the streamlining done to 2nd ed. that some people liked. The other was the sheer improvement of miniatures and graphic quality over the 1st edition of the game.

But there is a lot of splitting hair on opinions over the two editions. For example, the genestealer expansion was utter dreck. GW was just riding the coattails of the Origins award they won in '89 for deathwing expansion expecting to win big on that past merit.

I think that if GW can add the options that were offered in 1st ed, and still keep the quick gameplay of 2nd ed., then I beleive the new game will be better than the sum of its previous parts. Its a tough thing to draw that fine line. But if GW really want this game to sell well beyond an initial print run, it will have to be more than simply announcing to the public that SpaceHulk is back.

I really wish I knew what to expect from this re-release. Something completely new? Something rehashed? *shrug* I don't know, but my current project for SpaceHulk might have to be put on hiatus until I find out.

I hope they DON'T put Dark Eldar, Imperial Guardsmen, etc in the new edition. Space Hulk started going south when they messed with the formula, adding things like Genestealer Hybrids with guns and such. The 1st edition and maybe the first expansion were good; everything else was a mistake, IMO. That was one of GW's true classics, and should get a similar treatment that Talisman did, recently: a visual facelift, with the merest tweaking of the rules.

Space Hulk does NOT (IMO) need GW-style "support" in the form of an endless parade of rules expansions that unbalance the game and ruin its atmosphere. I believe it should be a stand-alone product.

I agree that Space Hulk should be a stand-alone product - that allows two players to field a single Elites unit against several mini-Troops units.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
And for the love of all that is holy, who in the Emperor's name is HMBC????????

C'mon now. You have an acronym for a name. You can't expect everyone to spell out what your name stands for in their head everytime they type it (although I do sometimes) and if I don't 'spell out' your name when typing it then it just becomes 4 letters, the middle two seem to be every easy to mix up when typing quick enough.

It's the bane of your screen name, you just have to live with it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I didn't see what the big difference between the two was aside from a cleaner set of Heavy Flamer rules. Sure, 2nd Ed didn't have the turn timer, but that's more of a personal preference thing.

See, that was the wrong thing to say to me, given my affection for the perfection of the original game (sans expansions) compared to the abomination (okay, maybe that's a *bit* harsh, but you get the point) of 2nd edition.


The first edition of the game used two basic D6s for firing a storm bolter. If you were moving (or firing the first shot standing still) you needed a '6' to kill a stealer on either of those dice. If you stood still and fired a 2nd shot at the same stealer, you now needed a '5+'. If you kept standing still and firing at the same stealer you could get all the way down to a '3+' to kill.

Now, if you put that same terminator on overwatch, anytime he fired and rolled doubles, the gun would jam.


In 2nd edition, someone made the terrible decision to change this perfectly elegant system (I'll discuss likely why in a second). Instead they made 'custom' dice for firing. 4 sides of these dice were 'misses', one was an 'always kill' side and one side was a 'kill when standing still' side.

Essentially that means no matter how many times a termie stands still and fires at the same stealer, the best he can ever get 'to kill' was a 5+ (as only two sides of the dice have potential 'kills' on them).

This idiotic change to custom firing dice also meant they had to include ANOTHER die in the game, the 'jam' die, which is only rolled when firing on overwatch and provides the same chance to jam as rolling doubles on 2D6 (i.e. a 1 in 6 chance vs. a 6 in 36 chance).

So not only is the 2nd edition shooting system less elegant, it also makes your standard termies with stormbolters MUCH less reliable. In 1st edition if you stand and fire at a single stealer with all four of a terminator's APs, you can nearly guarantee that stealer will be dead. In the 2nd edition of the game it is not entirely uncommon to fire standing still four times at the same stealer and miss all four times.

So why in god's name did they do this? Well, I do have a theory. If there was one flaw (more of a 'quirk' really ) with the core game of 1st edition it was that once a Genestealer player played enough times he realized that the Heavy Flamer's one big weakness is that it only affects a piece of the board. That means in certain areas of the board where there are multiple 'smaller' sections near each other, a good stealer player can often space out his models one per section to guarantee that the flamer can only kill one stealer a turn until the flamer runs out of ammo.

This is a very 'gamey' tactic that does tip the balance of the game heavily towards the stealers in some scenarios.


In 2nd edition, they introduced a flamer that affects individual squares instead of an entire section. These new flamer rules, besides making the marine player's turn take longer (which may have led to them deciding to get rid of the timer), also made the heavy flamer MUCH more powerful in that you could kill EXACTLY the models you needed to kill and block EXACTLY the squares you needed to block while still leaving space open for your marines to run past.

I think they kind of had to make the basic marine less reliable because the heavy flamer was now so much more potent. If you left the storm bolter the way it was in 1st edition and just changed the heavy flamer all of a sudden the balance would be shifted way to far to the marines and you'd have to include more stealers on your blips to compensate.

But there are multiple problems with this. First of all: the revised flamer rules made the weapon feel way too precise. I mean, this is a freakin' FLAME-THROWER, you shouldn't be able to perfectly 'paint' exactly the areas you want to. It also added length to the game and made it harder for new players to understand how it worked without really adding any additional 'fun' into the game. . .which is kind of the definition of a crappy change to a game. Finally, it made the entire marine side rely on the heavy flamer. Once you ran out of ammo or, god-forbid the flamer guy died, the marine player is really in a world of hurt, which again isn't a good change to the game.


Finally, I would wholly disagree that the timer is just a personal preference. It is an integral part of the game for a couple of reasons. First, it helps to balance the marines. A marine player who can take as long as he likes to make his turn definitely has an advantage over a player who is timed, and I think the first game is definitely balanced to take this into account. Second, the timer actually creates fear and tension in the marine player which actually helps to instill some of the feelings in the player that the marines they are playing would likely be feeling.

For me, the first Space Hulk, because of the timer remains my favorite game of all-time because I've never played another board game that instilled me with that kind of excitement. Trying madly to finish your turn while the time ticks down is a crazy feeling. Alternatively, being the stealer player and maniacally announcing "30 seconds to go" when you know the marine player is never going to finish in time is simply a delight.


In short, I don't think there is anything 2nd edition added to the game that was positive while there are several things it most certainly ruined IMHO.

yakface wrote:You have an acronym for a name.

One that is very close to a very large banking corporation that most people have heard of (HSBC), and I doubt anyone has problems with that. And it only consists of four letters. People seem to get the H and the C right, so really what's so hard about B and M. They're even in alphabetical order for crying out loud. On the keyboard they're even separated by a whole other letter - luck letter N. No one's yet called me HBNC.

yakface wrote:The first edition of the game used two basic D6s for firing a storm bolter. If you were moving (or firing the first shot standing still) you needed a '6' to kill a stealer on either of those dice. If you stood still and fired a 2nd shot at the same stealer, you now needed a '5+'. If you kept standing still and firing at the same stealer you could get all the way down to a '3+' to kill.

Now, if you put that same terminator on overwatch, anytime he fired and rolled doubles, the gun would jam.

I don't have a lot of experience with 1st Ed, I'll admit that. I own both editions, and the expansions, but when I got them I jumped into the newer version first (for some reason my copy of 2nd Ed is French, so the guy supplied PDF of the English rulebook). You're probably right about the Stormbolter side of things, but for the exact 'gamey' reasons you described I still don't like the way 1st Ed did Heavy Flamers.

yakface wrote:But there are multiple problems with this. First of all: the revised flamer rules made the weapon feel way too precise. I mean, this is a freakin' FLAME-THROWER, you shouldn't be able to perfectly 'paint' exactly the areas you want to. It also added length to the game and made it harder for new players to understand how it worked without really adding any additional 'fun' into the game. . .which is kind of the definition of a crappy change to a game. Finally, it made the entire marine side rely on the heavy flamer. Once you ran out of ammo or, god-forbid the flamer guy died, the marine player is really in a world of hurt, which again isn't a good change to the game.

In the games I've played the Heavy Flamer guy was very important, and a huge threat to the Stealers, but the only times where his survival has been paramount has been when the objective of the mission was a room that needed burning. Beyond that he's been used more as a tactical tool - like a mobile wall really - and I just liked the way it worked.

yakface wrote:Finally, I would wholly disagree that the timer is just a personal preference. It is an integral part of the game for a couple of reasons. First, it helps to balance the marines. A marine player who can take as long as he likes to make his turn definitely has an advantage over a player who is timed, and I think the first game is definitely balanced to take this into account. Second, the timer actually creates fear and tension in the marine player which actually helps to instill some of the feelings in the player that the marines they are playing would likely be feeling.

For me, the first Space Hulk, because of the timer remains my favorite game of all-time because I've never played another board game that instilled me with that kind of excitement. Trying madly to finish your turn while the time ticks down is a crazy feeling. Alternatively, being the stealer player and maniacally announcing "30 seconds to go" when you know the marine player is never going to finish in time is simply a delight.

I don't think it would be impossible to play 2nd Ed with a timer.

yakface wrote:In short, I don't think there is anything 2nd edition added to the game that was positive...

A nicer set of floor tiles and better plastic Termies.

BYE

HMBC is obviously Half of Marneus Calgar's Brother. I dunno, maybe just his head or something...

Pariah Press wrote: I hope they DON'T put Dark Eldar, Imperial Guardsmen, etc in the new edition. Space Hulk started going south when they messed with the formula, adding things like Genestealer Hybrids with guns and such. The 1st edition and maybe the first expansion were good; everything else was a mistake, IMO. That was one of GW's true classics, and should get a similar treatment that Talisman did, recently: a visual facelift, with the merest tweaking of the rules.

Space Hulk does NOT (IMO) need GW-style "support" in the form of an endless parade of rules expansions that unbalance the game and ruin its atmosphere. I believe it should be a stand-alone product.

Can I get an amen for brother Pariah Press? And to Yakface (now that I read his post) as well. 1st Ed sits proudly in my personal top 5 list of best games ever. 2ed? No so much.

I'm actually hopeful that they'll do exactly what they did with Talisman... In fact, isn't the most likely reason that GW's re-releasing Spacehulk is to reassess their rights to the game? I thought I read somewhere that's why the re-released Taliman.

Anyway, if GW doesn't make a lot of changes, I'll be all over buying a copy of the new Spacehulk. If they go for a wholesale revamping of things, or try to throw in all the later drek they rolled into SH, I'll pass.

Vale,

JohnS

I only ever played the first edition (I have two boxes) and the Deathwing expansion.

I also have two copies of WD 120 which had some extra rules.

The first edition rules were brilliantly well designed, possibly one of the best games GW ever did. No-one I knew ever found it a slow-moving game.

None of the expansion rules were necessary. Some of them were good additions while others were rubbish brought in only to sell more figures.

The heavy flamer flaw mentioned by Yakface is fairly minor. It is justifiable because it makes gameplay simple and quick and can be alleviated by good scenario design.

Kilkrazy wrote:I only ever played the first edition (I have two boxes) and the Deathwing expansion.

I also have two copies of WD 120 which had some extra rules.

The first edition rules were brilliantly well designed, possibly one of the best games GW ever did. No-one I knew ever found it a slow-moving game.

None of the expansion rules were necessary. Some of them were good additions while others were rubbish brought in only to sell more figures.

The heavy flamer flaw mentioned by Yakface is fairly minor. It is justifiable because it makes gameplay simple and quick and can be alleviated by good scenario design.

Here's my Space Hulk 1st edition flamer house rule:

Flamers can be fired in a 'wide spread' which not only hits the section they're fired at, but also one square of every section adjacent to the target section. However, this wide spread reduces the potency of the flames and models in this area are only killed on a 4+ instead of 2+.


I've found this solves the issue rather nicely.


The thing I hope most about this new set is that it contains larger tiles that are compatible with the new terminator basing scheme, even though it means all my previous tiles won't be usable with it (I'll accept that loss for being able to use prettier models more easily).

I would also love if they included one or two other Tyranid unit types, although I'm not expecting that to really happen.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Except those who want things other than Stormbolters.

Or don't want to have to off-load any Orks.

Or extra Marines they don't want/need.

Or want models that can be posed.

Or want to do their own Chapter using FW shoulder pads.

Or want to do Deathwing.

Or want to do Wolf Guard.

Trust me, the multi part Terminators still sell plenty!



Actually John, I can think of a lot of reasons to buy the Termy box over Battle for Black Lagoon.

BYE

This looks good, but I want to see pics before I start painting loads of terminators!

It'll be good for new gamers, but I like the original. The second edition was a poor revision upon the original, and I don't predict this going back towards the original.

I think an important points been missed here, I reckon that the models will be a recut of aobr and bfm (maybe with icongraphy redone - no point having two sets of 'cheap termies!). The main seller? plastic floor tiles, with door ways etc (like the old card games but....compatible with the 40k buildings, probably with a 'space ship/objective' sprue included. The books would show the plans to play (obviously the final bigger plans you would need two sets/expansion to play) with plenty of pics showing what's possible if you expand into the 40K scenery leading into the whole back page 'so look you've played and expanded your terrain, why not jump into 40K and suplement your troops with more choices from the army'. WD would also look at it from the other angle a couple of months later - combing terrain to make spectacular space shipps and 40K boards, combined campagins (with a bfg mention to boot), kill team update to get your eldar/orks etc into space hulk. Sales tactics yes, but I for one would be dumb enough to fall for it! I'd quit fancy a section of 40K terrain to be a downd spaceship. Hey does that lead to a push on gorka-morka too in the not so distant future? That whole game centers around a space ship! Are GW clever enough to think that far ahead? Will spacehulk come under the planet fall umbrella too?

As for scale/ppp - I really don't think so, it's a hobby. If they wanted a stand alone game it would be a completly separate one like talisman.

covenant84 wrote:
As for scale/ppp - I really don't think so, it's a hobby. If they wanted a stand alone game it would be a completly separate one like talisman.

The last release of Space Hulk was completely stand-alone.

yet the models were compatible with 40K and the books did suggest players try it out (correct me if i'm wrong). There were also plenty of suggestions in white dwarf on combining the two games into story based campaigns (i think bfg also suggested this although space hulk was out of production by then)

Sadly I've missed the greatness of Space Hulk and some things are oblivious to me. Could someone explain to me the time limits of the first edition?

If Space Hulk is released I'd expect it to have a 'new' ruleset I don't know if it would be based on the older versions or a derivative of the current 40K ruleset.

Scale wise I'd expect it to be exactly the same as the current 40K one and it would be released in a boxet.

Just my 2penneth

BrookM wrote:Sadly I've missed the greatness of Space Hulk and some things are oblivious to me. Could someone explain to me the time limits of the first edition?

yeah,
There was a turn time limit for the spacemarines player turn, any action points not used within the time limit were lost and the turn switched immediately to the genestealer players turn. this ment that the gene stealer player could always finnish his actions but by playing quick gave the Spacemarine guy even less time think..

The spacemarine players time limit was 3 minutes... this dropped to 2 minutes if the captin model was killed.

For a long while there has been rumors of a return to space hulk, JJ was reported to have looked into a digital turn timer... which would be very cool, especially if it has dramatic space vessel SFX voices '1 min warning!' and alarm noises 'aWoooGa! aWoooGa!' as the time runs out! --- although a 10sec count down sounds like it might ruin yakfaces fun!

And with planet strike due this year, the timing seems right for SpaceHulk.

Panic...

When I first heard this, I was welled up with conflicting feelings. I refused to believe it to happen now. I want to learn more about the tiles, rules and miniatures before I put down a real opinion on this.

yeah,
If I ever played against you Paul I'd be double checking your jam dice... it doesn't seem to be working...

Panic...

Panic wrote:

BrookM wrote:Sadly I've missed the greatness of Space Hulk and some things are oblivious to me. Could someone explain to me the time limits of the first edition?

yeah,
There was a turn time limit for the spacemarines player turn, any action points not used within the time limit were lost and the turn switched immediately to the genestealer players turn. this ment that the gene stealer player could always finnish his actions but by playing quick gave the Spacemarine guy even less time think..

The spacemarine players time limit was 3 minutes... this dropped to 2 minutes if the captin model was killed.

For a long while there has been rumors of a return to space hulk, JJ was reported to have looked into a digital turn timer... which would be very cool, especially if it has dramatic space vessel SFX voices '1 min warning!' and alarm noises 'aWoooGa! aWoooGa!' as the time runs out! --- although a 10sec count down sounds like it might ruin yakfaces fun!

And with planet strike due this year, the timing seems right for SpaceHulk.

Panic...

So the game would come with a hour glass or something like that? Each marine turn could only last three/two minutes or did the marine player have that much time in total for planning his game?

Well if they go the plastic route with the tiles, hopefully, at the very least, they'll make 'em fit with the old ones. I know, I know, wishful thinking, but it would be awesome. You could make huge ships.

BYE

Hmmm...and I just dug out my complete set of floor tiles from the original....Lorks a Mercy! How serendipitous!

I absolutly ADORED space hulk, I used to play it all the time, even against myself honning my skills!

I missed second edition (was when I was in a dark place, having forsaken the Emporer) but first edition, even some nearly 10 years down the line is still a defining point in my gaming life.

If they DO bring it back I will be cashing in the kids kidneys to buy copy's!

Just as a "Thing" found this

http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/40k/gaming/spacehulk/terrain/default.htm

On the oz GW Site, Space hulk rules and terrain for Kill Team... entertaining...

I would buy one. Period

I would buy two if it has plastic floor tiles.

I would buy three if the rules were fun and intuitive, had a timer and plastic floor tiles.

Come on GW, make me buy three boxes!

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S. Never played the original. Sadly.

P.P.S. The floor tiles would be awesome for a gaming table. Theme could be a boarding of a space marine cruiser.

Yarr.

And with the addition of 'Genestealer' Psykers also added to the clock as long as they were alive.

Makes one wonder if this is GW testing the water? Spacehulk is something of a classic game, and of course easily supported. But could this be leading up to the redoing of other formerly Specialist type Games?

Who knows, this could even be appearing in nonhobby stores, ala Heroquest etc. Being completely stand alone (you don't need to buy anything beyond the standard box after all) this may not be a terribly far fetched idea.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Makes one wonder if this is GW testing the water? Spacehulk is something of a classic game, and of course easily supported. But could this be leading up to the redoing of other formerly Specialist type Games?

Who knows, this could even be appearing in nonhobby stores, ala Heroquest etc. Being completely stand alone (you don't need to buy anything beyond the standard box after all) this may not be a terribly far fetched idea.

Who knows, but if this is indeed the case, then Bloodbowl please! With extra plastic teams! And no stupid add on set!

H.B.M.C. wrote:Call me greedy, but I want them to make cardboard tiles that are compatible with the old tiles.

GW making something backwards compatible with their existing stuff? That's crazy talk!

I still have the 1st Edition box in the attic, cannibalised the minis years ago. I never even tried the 2nd edition, and felt the expansions of 1e after deathwing just weakened the elegance & balance of the whole thing.

PS. Surely Terminator box set costs won't be hurt, GW will just retail Space Hulk: The Game at $60

I believe the cardboard tiles were made available as hi-resolution scans online, so you can download them and make your own extra sections for the original game.

Flashman wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Makes one wonder if this is GW testing the water? Spacehulk is something of a classic game, and of course easily supported. But could this be leading up to the redoing of other formerly Specialist type Games?

Who knows, this could even be appearing in nonhobby stores, ala Heroquest etc. Being completely stand alone (you don't need to buy anything beyond the standard box after all) this may not be a terribly far fetched idea.

Who knows, but if this is indeed the case, then Bloodbowl please! With extra plastic teams! And no stupid add on set!

Oh of course!

Blood Bowl is another good example of 'you could, but don't need to expand' GW games.

And also oddly, not that Nerdy to put people off. Can see it being a pleasent Beer Drinking Game even for the most dedicated of poseurs!

Yes, Blood Bowl was one of the few GW games to attract the interest of friends whose forays into wargaming normally only went as far as Risk. It's definitely a crowd pleaser.

I would imagine a game as cool as space hulk would get a full release not just an online thing.

It would be really great if they would release this as a box set with your plastic terminators and genestealers or whatever they decide the bad guys will be... and the cardboard tiles like before to keep costs down.. and then release an expansion pack with all plastic walls & floors and tiles, all fully compatible with the COD terrain. Or at least with panels the same size that lock together for making your "game bord" but easily convertable to use for COD stuff. Then you can combine all those kits together to build some really cool looking boards for space hulk or terrain for 40k

Boy, that would be the dream wouldn't it!

If they come out with plastic tiles that are compatible with the COD sets I will be buying a TON. I was really tempted to try to construct a fully modular spaceship interior for boarding action games, and if it suddenly becomes a question of buying another COD kit and 2-5 space hulk boxes, I definitely will.

Wehrkind wrote:If they come out with plastic tiles that are compatible with the COD sets I will be buying a TON. I was really tempted to try to construct a fully modular spaceship interior for boarding action games, and if it suddenly becomes a question of buying another COD kit and 2-5 space hulk boxes, I definitely will.

I would think that the floor tiles that came with the COD stuff would be perfect for a single square in space hulk, assuming they keep it 28 mm.

I'm really happy to see this one coming back. Like a lot of the other grizzled vets I've got a lot of pleasant memories of playing this game in my youth. Every opportunity I've had in the recent years (usually at cons) I've played this game again. Unfortunately they have been few and far between, but it's amazing how well this one has aged.

I also like the 1st edition rules the best, but frankly I could care less what the rules look like on release. The 1st and 2nd edition rules are available on the 'net, and the people who seem to be most keen on them already own copies. So in some ways the BEST thing that could happen would be a third set of rules, so that we could pick and chose among the best, or just go back to the edition we like the best. Remember it's your game, GW can (yet) come into your house and make you "play right".

Oh, and I'm thinking this is going to be a $70-80, just from looking at stuff like Tide of Iron, Descent, etc, and the current state of the economy.

yeah,

I look forward to seeing new missions in White dwarf!

Compatability with COD would be cool.
But If the new square/space are based on the COD tile size, it will make the standard missions in 1st ed. and 2nd ed. huge!
maybe this is where the different scale rumor is based...

---Speculation---
if the tiles are COD compatible, and made of plastic.
because of the space limit in a standard box... this could force them to scale the game towards smaller Maps...
I guess the basic Space Hulk 'starter' set will contain:

5 terminators

10 genestealers

a fair ammount of tiles

3D objective counters

With advanced missions requiring
extra troops purchases.
extra tile expansion packs purchases...

--- ---

Speculation gets me excited...

Panic...

I doubt the CAT will still be in it though, the background has changed a lot since then.

Its one I'd certainly buy if it does prove to be true. I had all the 1st edition stuff, but sold it all in the mid 90's, and never tried 2nd edition, wasn't even aware there where any rules changes.

Must admit if this came with plastic floor plans which I could then use cityfight bits and modelling to turn fully 3-D, I'd also be looking for more than a single box.

If the Termies are larger, it still wouldn't bother me, in fact depending on size they may well prove to be true scale when compared to the Guard which I'd take as a bonus.
Although I would be surprised if they did indeed turn out to be larger anyway. I don't think GW would do it for reasons already stated by others in this thread.

Yea, true scale models would be great. I was secretly hoping they would do that with the new marines codex, on the basis of "Well, everything is plastic pretty much... where do we go from here? I know! Rescale everything and make them buy all new models!"

As much as it would suck to have my army, which is already a mix of big and little termies, become more of a mix, marines that actually look like they are 7-9 feet tall relative to guardsmen would be awesome.

How awesome? SO awesome.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

yakface wrote:You have an acronym for a name.

One that is very close to a very large banking corporation that most people have heard of (HSBC), and I doubt anyone has problems with that. And it only consists of four letters. People seem to get the H and the C right, so really what's so hard about B and M. They're even in alphabetical order for crying out loud. On the keyboard they're even separated by a whole other letter - luck letter N. No one's yet called me HBNC.

I never forget it because it's "BM."

I just think, "Bowel Movement" when thinking about your name, and I'm good to go (no pun intended).

Eric

I think it’s all up for grabs. There are lots of reasons why any of the ideas presented so far could be attractive to GW or to players.

It depends on how much GW want to create a standalone game in a box rather than a sort of special introduction to 40K. Since AoBR already exists to do that job, I would bet on a standalone game perhaps with supplements to sell extra figures and missions.

MagickalMemories wrote:I never forget it because it's "BM."

I just think, "Bowel Movement" when thinking about your name, and I'm good to go (no pun intended).

Thanks for the new mnemonic - I think this is very helpful for those of us who kept thinking "humbug".

I would love plastic tiles, but I simply cannot see that happening if the game is to also have two forces AND stay in the $50 to $60 range.

At $60, I'll contemplate it.
At $50, I'll buy it.
At > $60, I'll have to be convinced before buying.

I loved Space Hulk and, though I LOVED the money, one of the worst gaming decisions I made was to sell it (that and my astrogranite Blood Bowl :frown.

If they make it a pre paint, I hope they don't make it a CMG pre paint.
I hope they make it size compatible with 40K (actually, I'd prefer =I= scale, but it would be price prohibitive).
I'm not so worried about the rules. I'll take them as they come... but I sincerely hope that there are rules for ALL of GW's 40K armies. After all, SM & Genestealers aren't the only forces out there living in and/or exploring Space Hulks.

...Oh... and I hope they have rules for more then just Genestealers, too. I also want gaunts and hybrids, minimum. LOL

Eric

Like many of the vets posting here, SH brings back many awesome memories. This game provided some of the best beer-and-pretzels moments I've ever experienced in gaming. Friends I am still in contact with today, STILL occassionally bring up some of those evenings in random gaming discussions, etc.

But like a few others here, 1st edition was the only version worth owning, in my opinion, pretty much for the reasons Yak outlined. 2nd was just 'ok', but since it wasn't better than 1st, I saw little reason in purchasing it myself, since I still owned 1st ed.

The same will apply here... Even though my nostalgia might be running wild and going crazy on me, if the new version of SH's rules aren't more enjoyable than, or at least AS enjoyable as 1st ed's - I see no reason to purchase. I still have 1st ed, and if those rules still play better than whatever GW puts out, I just don't see much reason to buy new.

I'll try it out at the GW store, then decide.

The one caveat, of course, is if the tiles are indeed plastic, and if they're nice. If that's the case, I'll likely end up buying at least 2 boxes just for those.

Here's my wild guess.

5 Terminators (w/ one heavy flamer)
20 Genestealers

Plastic tiles on the order of 12-16 corridor sections (straights, tees, and 90's) and 4 rooms.

$50-60 US

That's enough enough to play a minimal game. But, it's more fun if you buy two sets and/or your friend does. Even more fun if you buy COD and build up the board.

If you want extra terminator weapons or bitz, you need to buy the boxset. If they make it Deathwing, maybe you get one close combat termie (I'd bet it's twin LC) in place of a SB + PF one.

They publish additional rules for other marines characters (Captains, Librarians, etc.) and/or races on the website. Then, they don't care/worry if they're well balanced. And I think it'd mostly be different protagonists to replace the termies. I think the genestealers just work too well in that environment, and if the bad guys get guns - it takes some of the fun out of it.

Plastic tiles is defiitly do-able, I can't remember exactly but there was something about them changing suppliers and the Card Cutout Stuff being too cost prohibitive...

Anyway, Plastic moulding all in house these days, they have already done some nice stuff with City Terrain and the new Battle boards, if they produced a flat tile something like the platforms for the city terrain it would have some nice uses, plus could be combined with existing, would be a stand alone item as well (ie buy more for other terrain projects) and fits in with their existing mentallity of "Re-Combine to DEATH" with everything they do in plastic.

I'd expect to see plastic terrain but flat, 10 termies, 15-20 stealers and rules, dice etc for... lets say £50.... Too Optimistic?

Would be a hell of a good intro for 40K, plus a stand alone game, depending on how they did the rules.

Ever read the rules in the Anphalion Project? :-)

Considering GW cam use AoBR termies and BfM Stealers, the cost of the boxet would be almost entirely in the tiles, which have more uses than just in SH and would still sell by the dozen in extra packs.

I'd say a price of 50 is very doable.

I sense some high level wishlisting on the price, in this page alone.

I wonder if they'll cut and paste Jervis' mid-noughties WD piece on how 'we really want to produce some great board games' again this time round? Of course, they tried to do it with cardboard counters that time, funny that didn't catch on much.

His Master's Voice wrote:Considering GW cam use AoBR termies and BfM Stealers, the cost of the boxet would be almost entirely in the tiles, which have more uses than just in SH and would still sell by the dozen in extra packs.

I'd say a price of 50 is very doable.

I'd agree. And those tiles could be optimized quite a bit based on the missions they include.

I'm going to assume 5 Termies and 16 Stealers in the base box, with a semi-limited set of tiles.

Then expect "bonus" missions for 10 Termies vs 32 Stealers on expanded boards...

Pariah Press wrote: I hope they DON'T put Dark Eldar, Imperial Guardsmen, etc in the new edition. Space Hulk started going south when they messed with the formula, adding things like Genestealer Hybrids with guns and such. The 1st edition and maybe the first expansion were good; everything else was a mistake, IMO. That was one of GW's true classics, and should get a similar treatment that Talisman did, recently: a visual facelift, with the merest tweaking of the rules.

Space Hulk does NOT (IMO) need GW-style "support" in the form of an endless parade of rules expansions that unbalance the game and ruin its atmosphere. I believe it should be a stand-alone product.

What was the last GW game that had an endless parade of rules expansions? I never played the original Space Hulk, but if it's really as cool as everyone says, I think it would be pretty cool to add more races to it. I see no reason why Orks wouldn't hang around on a Space Hulk.

yakface wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
And for the love of all that is holy, who in the Emperor's name is HMBC????????

C'mon now. You have an acronym for a name. You can't expect everyone to spell out what your name stands for in their head everytime they type it (although I do sometimes) and if I don't 'spell out' your name when typing it then it just becomes 4 letters, the middle two seem to be every easy to mix up when typing quick enough.

It's the bane of your screen name, you just have to live with it.

Yeah H, you can count yourself lucky that we don't make up new solutions for that Acronym every day.

Panic wrote:

BrookM wrote:Sadly I've missed the greatness of Space Hulk and some things are oblivious to me. Could someone explain to me the time limits of the first edition?

yeah,
There was a turn time limit for the spacemarines player turn, any action points not used within the time limit were lost and the turn switched immediately to the genestealer players turn. this ment that the gene stealer player could always finnish his actions but by playing quick gave the Spacemarine guy even less time think..

The spacemarine players time limit was 3 minutes... this dropped to 2 minutes if the captin model was killed.

For a long while there has been rumors of a return to space hulk, JJ was reported to have looked into a digital turn timer... which would be very cool, especially if it has dramatic space vessel SFX voices '1 min warning!' and alarm noises 'aWoooGa! aWoooGa!' as the time runs out! --- although a 10sec count down sounds like it might ruin yakfaces fun!

And with planet strike due this year, the timing seems right for SpaceHulk.

Panic...

Limiting every turn to 3 minutes doesn't seem to be a very good idea to. Kinda takes the social part out of gaming....

Here is yet another possibility,

Instead of floor tiles what if they released 'spaceship' walls? These would be similar to their current building line but would represent walls and doors within a ship. Players would use more or less standard (Kill Team-like) 40K rules within this new terrain.

For the past four years or so, I have deliberately limited my GW spending (partly because of my sheer backlog of miniatures and partly because I was upset with their policies).

However, if this rumor proves true (AND the miniatures are 40K scale), I will HAPPILY buy several Space Hulk box sets. And the expansions (one can hope). And the Genestealer Cult Codex that is the obvious extension to these (one can really hope).

Very excited about this.

The original Space Hulk was an amazing game.

The best board game I ever had the pleasure to play.

I'm 100% with Yak on this one - some sort of version 1 rules with rules added on for specialist weapons.

I wouldn't be too keen with the psychic rules coming back. It over complicated the rules too much IMHO

Love space Hulk can't wait to see this

Heh want to bet they'll try and move more Anphelion project stuff on the back of this? It looks great but it would kill my poor defenceless wallet.

Brother Bartius wrote:
I wouldn't be too keen with the psychic rules coming back. It over complicated the rules too much IMHO

The point system or the cards?

robertsjf wrote:

Brother Bartius wrote:
I wouldn't be too keen with the psychic rules coming back. It over complicated the rules too much IMHO

The point system or the cards?

I have to say I hope Psykers ARE in there somewhere, even if 'only' in an advanced ruleset.

I'm all for the 'straight up' version, but with options for a lot more advanced stuff too.

The more options were added the worse the game got.

Assault cannons and grenade launchers were fun.

Genestealer hybrids with guns were a bad idea because the point about genestealers was they didn't have guns.

Other factions are a bad idea because no-one is a tough as a terminator, so to make other troops work you need to enlarge the corridors to get more of them in. This ruins the terrain setup and the way heavy weapons work.

Physics were just rubbish. I don't remember the details because I suppressed them from post-traumatic shock. it was just added complication and slowing down what had been a tight, fast-playing game.

The 3 minute rule was good because it made games go quickly and you could play a scenario in under 30 minutes, turn it around and play as the other side, then set up a second scenario and play it twice, all in one evening.

Less is more.

You don't improve a Ferrari by putting on some aerofoils, go-faster stripes, a sunroof, and balloon tyres on the rear axle.

A good stripe in the paint job definitely improves a stallion, but only in appearance.

In other news, Space Hulk returning is hugely wonderful news. Among folks that have played ever since forever, I'm willing to bet Space Hulk is the gateway drug that got most of us playing 40k. I think it will be great as an introduction game, but GW will inevitably stop supporting it unless they figure out a way to expand it indefinitely. SpaceHulkalypse, anyone?

Anung Un Rama wrote:
Limiting every turn to 3 minutes doesn't seem to be a very good idea to. Kinda takes the social part out of gaming....

Have you tried playing it this way? IMHO, this is one of the best mechanics in the entire game - it really does a great job of simulating how fast Space Marines have to react to the speed of Genestealers. It's stressful and induces you to make mistakes if you're not careful - but that's what makes it such a terrific part of the game!

Anung Un Rama wrote:What was the last GW game that had an endless parade of rules expansions?

Lord of the Rings, of course.

Anung Un Rama wrote:Yeah H, you can count yourself lucky that we don't make up new solutions for that Acronym every day.

Um, per Erik's post, his shorthand is now "BM".
____

tanker wrote:Instead of floor tiles what if they released 'spaceship' walls?

I don't think it'd do as well, because floor tiles are paintable texture, whereas wall markers aren't. You wouldn't convey the Space Hulk interior as effectively.
____

Alpharius wrote:I have to say I hope Psykers ARE in there somewhere, even if 'only' in an advanced ruleset.

Did someone just request RT-era Grey Knight Terminators in Space Hulk?

Alright here comes my long winded post.....

First off most people seem to think that it will be a box set? I only see this happening 1 of a few ways, and I will now outline those ways cause I am bored and have thought about this at work.....

a) It is released at/around the same time as Planet Strike(or whatever the Apoc expansion is called) and comes w/ rules to link battles/run a campaign. Why?
GW give you campaign rules?!?! Absurd I know but listen.....GW knows that Apoc has boosted there sales. That is why they are releasing an expansion and Space Hulk could be used via campaign rules to link battles such as "Fight past enemy to disable objective and gain 500pts"

Why is this unlikely? GW using Campaign rules or linking games.....not likely....

b) GW simply releases tiles that can be purchased online seperate and a Old School rulebook reprint(either 1e or 2e) that will still cost $50 like current rules. No new models or anything like that....this is for Vets.

This I see the most likely thing to happen. Remember when GorkaMorka was being rereleased? Everyone was going crazy hoping for new updated rules....what did we get? Downloadable PDF of the intial release and no expansion information. This would please the vets to some degree and seem like they care

c) GW Released it in a box w/ updated rules and it is a wide release, meaning at stores.

Problem w/ this? Well....it is a Skirmish based game to introduce people to the hobby but they already have that w/ AoBr. And the last starter already had Space Marines and Tyranids so why rehash that? Plus it might hurt AoBr starters and there will be much moaning by vets.

d) GW will release Space Hulk in a box set at stores. The box will contain the following:
Tiles
Rule Book(using classic rules)
Models

Newbies be damned..classic rules baby!! And on that day, the 5 or so disgruntled veterans that are around every GW store will arise from there sinkholes...the blinding light that scars there pasty skin so.....is simply the sun and not the emperor himself rising from the Golden Throne. And as they meet up at the Games Workshop stores around the world a strange thing will happen. They will all start singing a song that can only be described as Angelic. The stores themselves will become bathed in light as they are lifted from the very foundations of there various locations as they rise to heavens having finally become the best gaming company in the history of the world....there place in Human history for ever sealed

Why is this unlikely? Because what I just described. GW has a long track history of basically ignoring vets. It is not secret that most vets spend little to no money while a new person to the hobby will spend quite a large sum of money quickly. Anyone remember the stores pushing all you salty vets to the bunker for more "advanced" gaming and campaigns? I do not feel that GW will spend the time nor money to release it as a box set that they can not sell in large amounts. As many people may want this, remember that it is a minority of the Player Base who would actually get this. That money and time can be spent on rehashing a Old army, Dark Eldar, and bringing them back out(just using them as an example)


I would like to state that I am one of those veterans who will pick the game up one way or another. I have been playing for 15 years and have played more games than I care to think about but I just think people are getting to excited here about thigns that are unlikely to come to pass

Also somebody posted a link w/ information on how to do Space Hulk w/ Kill teams...that same area has this as well

"Let's see: we have the Kill Team rules in the revised Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. We have new Terminator plastics. Plus, we have new Genestealer plastics. Put those three things together and what do you get? Space Hulk! Well, we can't do Space Hulk exactly like we remember it from the boxed game of many years ago (sorry, that game is long gone, folks). Still, we can recapture the fun of that old game with a few tweaks to the existing Kill Team framework found in the revised rulebook.

Because of the inherent freedom built into the Kill Team system, it doesn't take much to get those rules to mimic the flavor of the old Space Hulk game. All it takes are a few special rules and creative terrain design. We'll show you that and more in this crazy blast-from-the-past article. Click on the link below to see how to tweak the Kill Team rules."

The great thing about Space Hulk was the simplicity of the rules, which anyone could learn in about five minutes.

sounds kewl

Panic wrote:

5 terminators

10 genestealers

It'd need to be far more than that. 10 Terminators and 20 Genestealers. That's easy to fit on two sprues - two identical sprues as well for that matter.

BYE

I loved Space Hulk. Haven't played it in over a decade. As much as I'm excited about the re-release, I'm absolutely ecstatic at the idea of plastic tiles.

I could really see this working well as a Dark Heresy tie-in. It seems like the perfect item to release as a stand alone product and 'oh yeah, it'll work really well with your Dark Heresy game as well.'

Kilkrazy wrote:Genestealer hybrids with guns were a bad idea because the point about genestealers was they didn't have guns.

Other factions are a bad idea because no-one is a tough as a terminator, so to make other troops work you need to enlarge the corridors to get more of them in. This ruins the terrain setup and the way heavy weapons work.

On the other hand, as-is Space Hulk is a very boring game, mostly because genestealers are dull, uninteresting opponents. Once you've killed the first 10, the following 4990 are just more of the same old routine.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Genestealer hybrids with guns were a bad idea because the point about genestealers was they didn't have guns.

Other factions are a bad idea because no-one is a tough as a terminator, so to make other troops work you need to enlarge the corridors to get more of them in. This ruins the terrain setup and the way heavy weapons work.

On the other hand, as-is Space Hulk is a very boring game, mostly because genestealers are dull, uninteresting opponents. Once you've killed the first 10, the following 4990 are just more of the same old routine.

If it is so boring, how did it win an Origins award?
Why do so many player still remember it fondly 20 years later?
Why is there such anticipation of a new edition?

Bribery, nostalgia and misplaced yearning to recreate one's youth, in that order?

No, seriously, I don't know. I've tried very hard to like SH, and have always failed, because Genestealers are boring.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Bribery, nostalgia and misplaced yearning to recreate one's youth, in that order?

Seems doubtful, I've played it at cons within the past couple of years, and came home all fired up to buy a copy off of ebay..... until I saw the $100 price for a screwed up version, and 150-200 for a nice one.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Bribery, nostalgia and misplaced yearning to recreate one's youth, in that order?

No, seriously, I don't know. I've tried very hard to like SH, and have always failed, because Genestealers are boring.

Why don't you play a different game with more different weapons in it, such as 40K, if that's what you want?

What does Agamemnon do ANYTHING? In order to increase his own misery so he can complain, of course.

Kilkrazy wrote:Why don't you play a different game with more different weapons in it, such as 40K, if that's what you want?

I do, sheesh. But if they're making a new edition, I trust I'm entitled to wish that it'd cater to me as well, by bending to scenarios other than terminators vs genestealers. The potential for a squad-based 40k boardgame is definite.

Scottywan82 wrote:What does Agamemnon do ANYTHING? In order to increase his own misery so he can complain, of course.

INSTANT CLASSIC

BUT, I'm kind of with him on hoping for some variety too...

So, I guess that makes me an

INSTANT HYPOCRITE

Some days I feel like this entire forum is sitting at the feet of H.B.M.C. and seeking only to find the perfect path to complaining 100% of the time, regardless of topic. =)

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Why don't you play a different game with more different weapons in it, such as 40K, if that's what you want?

I do, sheesh. But if they're making a new edition, I trust I'm entitled to wish that it'd cater to me as well, by bending to scenarios other than terminators vs genestealers. The potential for a squad-based 40k boardgame is definite.

Not if it spoils it for everyone who likes it.

Space Hulk isn't a squad-based 40k boardgame.

It interesting to see what people want out of the game.

SpaceHulk, for all intents and purposes has always been like what we saw in the 4th ed Kill Team rules. its really funny when I see people balk at the "Return to Space Hulk" Kill team rules that GW posted online for a twist on Kill Team, but the similarities between space hulk and kill team are unmistakable.

You have the protagonist, who has the side of moral righteousness, fighting against an inordinate number of plebeian antagonists, nameless and faceless goons if you will.
The only difference between kill team and space hulk, is that the roles for the two sides are reversed in kill team in how they engage each other, because the protagonist wants to be as secret as possible while obtaining the objective in kill team, so shooting gets the guards on you. The goons squads however were stronger when shooting, instead of CC.

It would be nice for GW to bring back some variation though. Make a mutable set of rules for the protagonist (such as pick your fave squad from your fave army @ X points and enter the hulk and do your business there) but the antagonists should always be nameless goons, with very little if any variance.

Its the fight against attrition that makes a lot of people like how space hulk is, IMO. The challenge of beating those overwhelming odds with minimal strength of force through superior tactics.

Indeed, the more 'boring' the forces involved are, the more emphasis is made on strategy and tactics of the game. Chess isn't much to look at, but there is no denying that it is a strong game.

I get the strange feeling that GW is trying to reintroduce Kill Team rules back into 40K, and they may take this opportunity to do just that.

Funny thing is that we might just get a rules supplement and nothing else. No tiles, no models... just rules.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Panic wrote:

5 terminators

10 genestealers

It'd need to be far more than that. 10 Terminators and 20 Genestealers. That's easy to fit on two sprues - two identical sprues as well for that matter.

BYE

Which is why it'll be $60+, but the $50 wishlisting crowd don't want to hear that.

Kilkrazy wrote:Not if it spoils it for everyone who likes it.

Space Hulk isn't a squad-based 40k boardgame.

Now I'm honestly confused. the player controls a squad of Terminators, it's set in the 40k universe, and there's a mutable gameboard. But it isn't a "squad-based 40k boardgame"? I can only assume I'm using the terminology somehow wrong.

In any case, the presence of optional additional rules cannot ruin the core of the game any more than the presence of Stealth Chess could ruin the conventional chess game for its aficionados.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Not if it spoils it for everyone who likes it.

Space Hulk isn't a squad-based 40k boardgame.

Now I'm honestly confused. the player controls a squad of Terminators, it's set in the 40k universe, and there's a mutable gameboard. But it isn't a "squad-based 40k boardgame"? I can only assume I'm using the terminology somehow wrong.

Possibly.

Space Hulk, Mordheim, etc aren't really squad based games because the miniatures move independently from the rest of the unit that they 'belong' to. I suppose it would be termed as a 'skirmish' type of game. Thats how I interpret the term anyways.

If my interpretation is correct, then 40K would be a squad based game.

Regardless, while additional rules can be beneficial, they can be a detriment as well.

Take the expansions for 1st ed space hulk for example.
Deathwing had great rules, while genestealer was largely a waste of time outside of new tiles for the game. It might be why Deathwing was heaped with accolades and won an award, while genestealer was only purchased by completists or people wanting more tiles.

Scottywan82 wrote:Some days I feel like this entire forum is sitting at the feet of H.B.M.C. and seeking only to find the perfect path to complaining 100% of the time, regardless of topic. =)

Optimism is unheard of for the vinegar pissers we got around here. I wouldn't be surprised if something was released up to their impossible specs and they would still find something to nag about.

As much as I'd love to join your little fictional rogues gallery of eternally ungrateful miscreants, I must protest. I have nothing negative to say about GW rereleasing Space Hulk after all these years, because it's evident more than a handful of people want the game, given its high secondhand value. I don't have to like it.

Feel free to not believe me and instead entertain what delusions you will.

Bah humbug, be that way. I wasn't even pointing a finger or singling people out.

Now where did I put that tab of acid, I need me some delusions fierce!

BrookM wrote:Bah humbug, be that way. I wasn't even pointing a finger or singling people out.

Or to paraphrase Dune (the greatest novel ever):

I produce a general garment and you claim it cut to fit?

Oh you crazy Bene Gesserit.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Not if it spoils it for everyone who likes it.

Space Hulk isn't a squad-based 40k boardgame.

Now I'm honestly confused. the player controls a squad of Terminators, it's set in the 40k universe, and there's a mutable gameboard. But it isn't a "squad-based 40k boardgame"? I can only assume I'm using the terminology somehow wrong.

In any case, the presence of optional additional rules cannot ruin the core of the game any more than the presence of Stealth Chess could ruin the conventional chess game for its aficionados.

Space Hulk does not use the 40K rules and the Terminators move independently.

Optional rules can always be ignored, however if the core rules are changed (for example, by taking the KillTeam or 40K in 40 rules as the basis) then it could well be spoilt. The balance of the game depends on the rules and on the board design working together. Consequently, if the new edition board is designed for a completely different set of rules, it may be useless for playing the first edition Space Hulk.

I suppose this should not matter to me since I have two complete Space Hulk 1s and a Deathwing.

Scottywan82 wrote:Some days I feel like this entire forum is sitting at the feet of H.B.M.C. and seeking only to find the perfect path to complaining 100% of the time, regardless of topic. =)

Hey don't look at me! I'm the guy who spent $600 in the space of three days on eBay picking up every Space Hulk product ever made, and then doing it two years later with every Warhammer Quest product. I'm looking forward to a new edition, not so much because it's a new edition, but more the propsect of different terrain. It's the same reason I can't wait for Planetstrike (more terrain!).

BYE

Went to the local store today and Space Hulk is confirmed for Autumn 2009, following on the coat tails of Planet Strike. It will NOT be supported by the stores in the long run. Instead it will be available for some time instore, afterwards it becomes a direct only thing. Rules etc. are unknown, though I was told that it would be for any Chapter, not Blood Angels or Dark Angels.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Genestealer hybrids with guns were a bad idea because the point about genestealers was they didn't have guns.

Other factions are a bad idea because no-one is a tough as a terminator, so to make other troops work you need to enlarge the corridors to get more of them in. This ruins the terrain setup and the way heavy weapons work.

On the other hand, as-is Space Hulk is a very boring game, mostly because genestealers are dull, uninteresting opponents. Once you've killed the first 10, the following 4990 are just more of the same old routine.

Well all my work based on Genestealer variants thinks otherwise, genestealers are in fact the most customizable less boring race of creatures ever made by GW.
Looking forward for the new spacehulk.

The rule updates should be very interesting. I just wonder how much variety there will be terrain-wise...

Im thinkin that we will see:
10 Termies, which will basicaly be Black reach re-cuts, but will replace ones Stormbolter Arm with a Hvy Flamer.
20 Genestealers. (As long as these are 40k scale, I could see myself grabbing a set for my 'Nids)
A small amount of tiles, with an expansion pack put out there for the Die-hards.
A small number of accesories, possibly with Expansion pack.
Rules, I'm not sure, but they probably will include some for Different Termy options, and Biomorphs.

The greatness of Space Hulk was its extreme simplity. It made it in easy to play whilst priding a tactical challenge that wasn't reliant of hordes of rules to bog it down.

The Terminators/Stealers combo was perfection because it pitted 2 opposing forces that were literally the opposite of each other. Not to mention that the original game first came out in '88 or '89 and was obviously a tribute to Aliens.

I hope that the changes aren't that great as I love 1st edition and I'm a big believer in the principle of if it aint broke....

Incidentally forget the expansions, they did nothing but bog the game down.

I don't like the Timer and have never used it. I don't want that sort of pressure when trying to have a beer and crisps over a game. The 'stealers used to win too often easily, the marines needed the help.

I can see why people wouldn't like the time pressure. A friend of mine preferred to play without the timer because it let him calculate the marine moves to a T.

OTOH there are plenty of games without a timer.

Why not have a game where time pressure is a game mechanism? I always felt it worked well and by making games go quicker you could play the scenario both ways round.

I'm against timers.

Timed games serve little purpose aside from ending them sooner. Look at competitive chess and how it's timed - the timer is somewhat secondary as the initial part is all by rote anyways.

What the timer does is allow a more-experienced (or "smarter" / faster-moving / faster-thinking) player to increase his advantage over his opponent. As I think games should discourage "win more" mechanisms, then the timer should go away.

If Space Hulk moves more toward standard 40k resolution mechanics, I think that would go a long ways toward speeding play.

JohnHwangDD wrote:If Space Hulk moves more toward standard 40k resolution mechanics, I think that would go a long ways toward speeding play.

Could you eloborate?

I ask because spacehulk is already a pretty quick game. I find it difficult to beleive that it could get any faster to resolve.

As for the timers... Meh. If you like to use em, if not then don't. Its nice to have the option for people who do enjoy such tension.

If a game is incredibly simple a timer can really enhance the experience by forcing stupid mistakes.
This in turn increases the random factor that I find makes boardgames fun.
Narrative/Beer/Discussion is also fun so I will likely pick and choose when/whether to use a timer

Also, when I am king I am going to introduce a law stating that Ludo will never be played without a 3 second timer.
The penalty-Having your chair pulled from under you as you sit when you return from getting a round of beers at your expense.

That should stop the following:
1234 ooh I could get him, 1234 ooh not sure if i'm going to be safe there, 1234 he could get in the house with that, 1234 maybe
I should get him instead, 1234 yes thats it i'm going to get in the house, or maybe not..... tbc

Oh yeah, I'm also not good with kids!

Shoot, our local gaming club did a 3d style space hulk game ( I think they even took some of it to Games Day in Baltimore not completely sure about it, as I wasn't there.).. it was awesome. not only did it have side doors, walls and sphincter doors, it also had 3 seperate levels to traverse..

and we also had a warning light system, with blaring horns/warning horns that would come on when you had 2 min (lights) and 1 min (horns) left. It was awesome..

I know GW won't go that far, but as for me, Space Hulk and Blood bowl could be the only games GW ever did and I'd be happy..

Kilkrazy wrote:Why not have a game where time pressure is a game mechanism? I always felt it worked well and by making games go quicker you could play the scenario both ways round.

I never played the board game, but used to visit a friend's house as much as possible to play the computer game version. The timer was definitely a plus for the type of game that it was, helping to make the game more claustrophobic.

I also think this would be an excellent opportunity for GW to make something that can also act as advertising for the hobby as a whole, by getting it out into a wider variety of stores. I had thought that this was one of the reasons for making the starter box sets a bit smaller [eg Assault on Black Reach], but I haven't noticed much success with this. Perhaps that has disappointed GW?

Like Alex Kolodotschko said, the timer causes the marines player to make mistakes under pressure. It's an integral part of the game.

It helps compensate for the simple rules and prevents the marines from setting up mathematically precise patterns of fire, which they can do much more easily given unlimited time to consider their options.

It gives the Genestealer player a functional tactical objective in killing the sergeant or captain, and the marines and objective in defending him.

I don't get the idea that it's unfair to inexperienced players. All games are unfair to inexperienced players.

I don't see logically how it can speed a game up to remove the timer and let people take as long as they want.

Finally, we already have 40K and cut-down versions of it. The world does not need another cut-down version of 40K played inside some plastic corridors.

Yes I remember seeing the space hulk thing at GD Baltimore, it was sweet looking. And if I recall correctly it was painted in a redish color.

Here is a timer someone made for Spacehulk.

A nice thing to use if you happen to have a laptop handy. Sadly, it doesn't work for phone aps as it is too big to fit the screen. [edit] It seems the creator took some feedback since I last used it as the screen size is customizable to fit your screen. I assume that means you can download the app to a phone[/edit]

The timer is adjustable by clicking the termies or the little red part of the blip marker. Its nice to see such customization.
The file could definitely be improved by adding the scanner sound from the movie Aliens, as I think the ping is a little annoying. Perhaps even a alien screech at the end to show the times up.

Audio files from the AVP game could easily be used.

But its a sweet app and the person who made it on BoardgameGeek should be given mad props for making it.

Whatever happened to the flash/Java Space Hulk game that someone created about a year ago? If I recall that didn't have a timer and it just doesn't have the same feel.

stonefox wrote:Whatever happened to the flash/Java Space Hulk game that someone created about a year ago? If I recall that didn't have a timer and it just doesn't have the same feel.

Wasn't that based on the second edition anyway?
That game rocked hard balls, some mission just let me bite the same hard ones because I couldn't finish them.
Especially a mission with a round limit was intense, really transported the desperate fall back feel.

Greets
Schepp himself

I own several copies of both editions of this game, so much fun.

Without the timer, it made things relatively one sided. The guys with the guns won. It builds suspense and forces you to stay on your toes. With the second edition things were better balanced, not as much of an issue, but it sapped alot of variety and replay value from the game.

Hellfury wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:If Space Hulk moves more toward standard 40k resolution mechanics, I think that would go a long ways toward speeding play.

Could you eloborate?

I ask because spacehulk is already a pretty quick game. I find it difficult to beleive that it could get any faster to resolve.

As for the timers... Meh. If you like to use em, if not then don't. Its nice to have the option for people who do enjoy such tension.

By "standard 40k resolution mechanics", I mean that shooting, HtH, etc. would follow 5th Edition rules.

Basically, each Marine would be an Independent Character, but he would be standard BS4, shooting on a 3+, with a standard Sv2+/5++ save, move 6", etc. His Flamer would be a standard S4 AP5 Template weapon. And so on.

That way, existing 40k players wouldn't have to switch back and forth between rulesets, but just play as normal, but with minor modifications (e.g. Marines being ICs rather than a squad).

Action points are *much* better suited for Space Hulk.

BrookM wrote:Action points are *much* better suited for Space Hulk.

Agreed. At this level, the 40K simplifications are a bit too simple.

BrookM wrote:Action points are *much* better suited for Space Hulk.

I could not agree more. Space hulk is its own game, not a knock of of an edition of 40K. The action point mechanic is inherent to the game. Without it, you may as well be playing 40K in space corridors. You can do that anyways using 40K rules without having to muck up a perfectly good system.

If new players cant wrap their tiny brains around the extremely simple action point concept and be able to switch easily between games, then I am afraid they are better off playing checkers.

Or maybe this might be more their speed...

Wait, how can you get to "end" if there's no box around it I can jump to?

stonefox wrote:Whatever happened to the flash/Java Space Hulk game that someone created about a year ago? If I recall that didn't have a timer and it just doesn't have the same feel.

Thats the spacehulk game made by Teardown. I was playing it last night (there are places on the net still where you can find it) and I didn't notice any missions that were timed. But then again, I only got two missions into a campaign so there may be timed missions in there (Before you start a game, there is a part on the bottom of the mission briefing that tells you wehter it is timed or not.)

I agree though, without the timer I win the games very easily. Just find a good position, overwatch the hell out of crap, and hope you dont jam while completing the objective.

Faaaaaaar too easy to beat without a timer.

Hellfury wrote:Here is a timer someone made for Spacehulk.

A nice thing to use if you happen to have a laptop handy. Sadly, it doesn't work for phone aps as it is too big to fit the screen. [edit] It seems the creator took some feedback since I last used it as the screen size is customizable to fit your screen. I assume that means you can download the app to a phone[/edit]

The timer is adjustable by clicking the termies or the little red part of the blip marker. Its nice to see such customization.
The file could definitely be improved by adding the scanner sound from the movie Aliens, as I think the ping is a little annoying. Perhaps even a alien screech at the end to show the times up.

Audio files from the AVP game could easily be used.

But its a sweet app and the person who made it on BoardgameGeek should be given mad props for making it.

I like it..

space hulk with a timer is like bloodbowl without a timer.. you just too much time to make tactical decisions that you would otherwise overlook 'under the gun' of a timer..

if you play those games without a timer, it's about like riding a bike with training wheels.. It's just not right.

Hellfury wrote:

stonefox wrote:Whatever happened to the flash/Java Space Hulk game that someone created about a year ago? If I recall that didn't have a timer and it just doesn't have the same feel.

Thats the spacehulk game made by Teardown. I was playing it last night (there are places on the net still where you can find it) and I didn't notice any missions that were timed. But then again, I only got two missions into a campaign so there may be timed missions in there (Before you start a game, there is a part on the bottom of the mission briefing that tells you wehter it is timed or not.)

I agree though, without the timer I win the games very easily. Just find a good position, overwatch the hell out of crap, and hope you dont jam while completing the objective.

Faaaaaaar too easy to beat without a timer.

Yeah. I think that because of that, I managed to beat the game with 3 guys having powerswords and the sgt. guy having lightning claws or whatever it was. Also you haven't told me how I'm supposed to win that two-box game. It's p confusing.

space hulk with a timer is like bloodbowl without a timer.. you just too much time to make tactical decisions that you would otherwise overlook 'under the gun' of a timer..

if you play those games without a timer, it's about like riding a bike with training wheels.. It's just not right.

One of these days, we should play JTS' version of 40k where you take a shot after a squad dies. I'm sure you'll beat me quite easily but adding external variables that affect tactical decisions is always fun.

stonefox wrote:
One of these days, we should play JTS' version of 40k where you take a shot after a squad dies. I'm sure you'll beat me quite easily but adding external variables that affect tactical decisions is always fun.

Nope, I'm sure you'd win.. Or maybe I would win. I don't drink so how would we do that? llllll

It might do people's brains some good to learn another set of rules on top of 40K.

Who thinks when Talisman was republished they should have changed the game to fit the WHFB rules?

Haha... Talisman with WHFB rules would have been silly.
Space Hulk has its own rules, leave it be. I do however believe GW should put out rule for squad level 40k games separate of Space Hulk. Killteam and patrol games were fun and would lend themselves to some cross over rules with space hulk, much like how the did the Space Hulk Killteam missions as well as the higher level of detail some players would like.

There is always =I=munda floating around. I am told that is a good time.

I hope the don't use Fifth Edition rules and use more like First Edition SH, where it's fewer dice to roll.

SH: Roll to hit, remove model

40k: Roll to hit, roll wounds, roll save (if appropriate), remove model

Not that 40k is overly complex, but I like the SH/LotR 'roll one die and remove a model' simplicity for a board game.

If GW is re-releasing SH as a gateway to 40k, I'd think that they'd want to take advantage of 5th edition, perhaps as "advanced SH"?

Kilkrazy wrote:It might do people's brains some good to learn another set of rules on top of 40K.

Who thinks when Talisman was republished they should have changed the game to fit the WHFB rules?

Anything would have been better than the current ruleset. Basically it goes like this:
1) Roll the dice
2) Move one direction or the other
3) Rinse, repeat

Most decisions in the game come down to this do I take the "Horrible Death" or the "Bag of Gold"..... hmmm what to do, what to do?

BTW, I've got a version of talisman-lite I'm thinking about publishing. Basically it's a D6. Both players roll the dice, the person who says "Chaos Warrior" wins. Unfortunately I think I'm going to have add some additional components to prevent people from stealing my idea, and playing for free.....

40K is a vast universe of fluff and rules that can be hugely daunting for many.
My thinking is that the game will have no relation to 40K bar the models and fluff.
At least this is my hope anyway.

For me the beauty of Space Hulk is this:
Simplicity.
It is possible to learn it in a few minutes and it plays as a stand alone game.
There is very little paraphenalia and it can be played on a kitchen or coffee table.
I could play this with any of my friends family or girlfriend and tell them that it is a board game,
and they would be happy enough to play it.
Some of these people might like it and play again, others might see the carnifex sitting on my shelf
looking all lonely and ask can we use him next game. I will answer, 'Not really, but if you have an hour
or two to spare I will teach you how to play 40K '
Simple really!

Whether we decide to take matters into our own hands, paint the models, invent rules/scenarios, introduce
Tyranids, Imperial guard or other aliens or create vast 3D boards will (more than likely) be up to us.
If this was going to be anything like as big as LOTR we would have heard a lot more by now!


My point is that I don't think we should expect huge things from GW on this one.
All we can hope for is a nice tidy little package.

Alex Kolodotschko wrote:If this was going to be anything like as big as LOTR we would have heard a lot more by now

I think that's a flawed assumption, because GW isn't very open about any future releases outside of the one in the immediate horizon. I mean, the IG book will presumably be a major release, but we still know nothing about its actual contents, and had it not been for the open day, we would not even have a single picture of the models released with it.

JohnHwangDD wrote:If GW is re-releasing SH as a gateway to 40k, I'd think that they'd want to take advantage of 5th edition, perhaps as "advanced SH"?

I don't think they mean for it to be a gateful to 40k, outside of the fluff connection. All the things that made SH cool and fast-paced don't translate to 40k. Measuring for movement and ranges. More dice rolls. Loss of action points. Facing. I mean, they can make it a gateway to 40k, but I think it loses a lot if they do.

JohnHwangDD wrote:If GW is re-releasing SH as a gateway to 40k, I'd think that they'd want to take advantage of 5th edition, perhaps as "advanced SH"?

That's assuming they are releasing it as a gateway game.

I don't think they need a gateway game, they have AoBR which has been very successful and they suck in loads of new recruits by word of mouth, family contacts and through the stores.

True, Space Hulk gives something of the 40K fluff.

A proper, standalone Space Hulk boxed game is something they could sell tons of. Look how fast Talisman sold out when they rereleased it.

Space Hulk sales don't have to cannibalise regular 40K sales. GW can sell a ton of Space Hulk boxes and still sell proper 40K rules supplements like Cities of Death and so on, including a 40K in 40 and Killteam book. And they would sell tons of those kind of rules supplements as well. Look at Apocalypse.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Hellfury wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:If Space Hulk moves more toward standard 40k resolution mechanics, I think that would go a long ways toward speeding play.

Could you eloborate?

I ask because spacehulk is already a pretty quick game. I find it difficult to beleive that it could get any faster to resolve.

As for the timers... Meh. If you like to use em, if not then don't. Its nice to have the option for people who do enjoy such tension.

By "standard 40k resolution mechanics", I mean that shooting, HtH, etc. would follow 5th Edition rules.

Basically, each Marine would be an Independent Character, but he would be standard BS4, shooting on a 3+, with a standard Sv2+/5++ save, move 6", etc. His Flamer would be a standard S4 AP5 Template weapon. And so on.

That way, existing 40k players wouldn't have to switch back and forth between rulesets, but just play as normal, but with minor modifications (e.g. Marines being ICs rather than a squad).

And thus, you've recreated 40k, not Space Hulk. Should Talisman be played with WHFB rules to work out any fights? Or why bother with Warmaster. Wouldn't it be simpler to just use the WHFB rules as well? Or maybe play Epic with 40k rules? There's a reason for different rules mechanics...

Space Hulk is not 40k, as others have mentioned already. The GWOZ "Kill Team as Space Hulk" rules are nice for what they are, but they are not Space Hulk.

And now that I'm caught up with the thread, I see that others have made the same point already...

Vale,

JohnS

I think the weak point of your argument is that Games Workshop is a completely rational entity who's as hardcore about the hobby and its history as us gamers. Personally, I rather believe they'll be going for the cheap sales tactics and promoting their main product line with this release, if it even exists.

JohnHwangDD wrote:If GW is re-releasing SH as a gateway to 40k, I'd think that they'd want to take advantage of 5th edition, perhaps as "advanced SH"?

And there's your answer - they're not. Or their vision of a 'gateway to 40k' differs markedly from yours.

The post about making Talisman use WHFB rules just about sums up the absurdity of this idea IMO.

Seconded... They're a multinational organization with managers who don't game and who don't know anyone who makes less than a six figure income. But if it'll make them money they'll do it. And if it makes sense and would allow us to get cheaper bits they probably won't... Remember, they're in this for the money, not the hobby. I miss the old days before they went public with their stocks.

Tribune wrote:The post about making Talisman use WHFB rules just about sums up the absurdity of this idea IMO.

I think your comparison of Talisman and Space Hulk is like comparing Carcassonne and Backgammon. They're wildly different kinds of games.

Fine then.

Warhammer Quest using WFB rules. It wouldn't work.

BYE

JohnHwangDD wrote:If GW is re-releasing SH as a gateway to 40k, I'd think that they'd want to take advantage of 5th edition, perhaps as "advanced SH"?

Odd. I thought that is what the purpose of the Assault on Black Reach boxed set. A gateway 40k set.
I have no idea why they would attempt to introduce 40K with yet another boxed set that has altogether different rules.

The only commonality I can see the two sharing is models and background.

As I said before, I was told that the game would have a limited shelf life and limited in-store support, after that it becomes a direct only product for the most part. It is not intended to get a long term support beyond a few articles on-line and in the WD. Basically this version is getting a Specialist Games treatment.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Alex Kolodotschko wrote:If this was going to be anything like as big as LOTR we would have heard a lot more by now

I think that's a flawed assumption

Okay, perhaps not a 'lot more' but something and probably from an official source.
The release is going to be less than 10 months away. If it was going to be 'LOTR big' we would
have heard rumours of GW introducing a 4th system or something like that.

Hellfury wrote:Here is a timer someone made for Spacehulk.

A nice thing to use if you happen to have a laptop handy. Sadly, it doesn't work for phone aps as it is too big to fit the screen. [edit] It seems the creator took some feedback since I last used it as the screen size is customizable to fit your screen. I assume that means you can download the app to a phone[/edit]

The timer is adjustable by clicking the termies or the little red part of the blip marker. Its nice to see such customization.
The file could definitely be improved by adding the scanner sound from the movie Aliens, as I think the ping is a little annoying. Perhaps even a alien screech at the end to show the times up.

Audio files from the AVP game could easily be used.

But its a sweet app and the person who made it on BoardgameGeek should be given mad props for making it.

I just received an email from the guy who made the spacehulk timer and he attached a version that uses sounds from the motion tracker prop recently shown at comic on a couple years ago. (see attachment)

its a bit harsh though, as I can see the timer getting annoying to use really quickly. I cracked the avp game yesterday and found the sound files to extract which are a lot less harsh. Hopefully those will be included instead.

[edit: to use this, just open the file with your fav web browser anytime after you save it.]

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Tribune wrote:The post about making Talisman use WHFB rules just about sums up the absurdity of this idea IMO.

I think your comparison of Talisman and Space Hulk is like comparing Carcassonne and Backgammon. They're wildly different kinds of games.

My point was that 40k and Space Hulk are also wildly different types of game.

As are Talisman and WHFB.

But you don't seem to follow me. Such is life.

yeah,
this thread has gone right down hill....
what has passing 'go' in Ludo got to do with 'a battle to the Death in the chilling depths of space?'

Back OT: My Opinion:
If they are updating the basic game to incorporate new fluff. They don't need to change the rules:
The old fluff still olds true for 99% of Space Hulks Antics.
Basically The Tyranid vanguard has managed to overthrow a space hulk... But it's been unmanned for decades, floating around until now... Rediscovered by the Space Marines.
BroodLords and BioMorphs could be included per mission...
gaunts, warriors and tyrants (you need extra minis to play)...should come later in extra sets/WD articles.
Cultists don't fit the current mainsteam fluff (sorry)...

Panic...............

Panic wrote:Cultists don't fit the current mainsteam fluff (sorry)...

What are you talking about? They haven't removed Genestealer Cults from the fluff.

BYE

yeah,
I know they havn't cut it out... they sort of put that fluff in a dark corner of the codex...
a mind washed population marching enmass onto 'nid craft is all that's left of the Cults...

It's a Shame really the cults looked awesome!
I think they are one codex away from disappearing!

Panic...

I'd much rather see 'Space Hulk' as a general framework for quick-play games in the WH40k universe, but focusing on 'installations' (Space Hulks being the primary) with multiple options for missions, forces, and such built in from the start. If it's well done, the same idea could potentially be re-used for other scenarios and the Space Hulk base set could have a lot of add-on supplements.

So you buy the Space Hulk basic set, play it, then can pick up other sets like the 'Last Stand of the Guard' set based around Guard defending an installation (built from a mix of SH tiles and a couple new pieces) from Genestealers. Or perhaps a wacky Chaos themed supplement where the Space Marines may go in and blast cultists but there's room for Daemons and CSM.

Essentially, support it like some of the more complex board games like Memoir '44 does.

Or, as I doubt they'll do this, maybe it's a niche another company can take advantage of.

It wouldn't take much to turn Space Hulk into the 'Alamo' bit from Starship Troopers (Just swap Terminators for Guardsmen) and a small leap again to 'Space Hulk - Battles in the underhive ventilation vents - Ork commandos vs.Crapachans. Space Hulk could be an open ended license to print money for GW.

Panic wrote:yeah,
this thread has gone right down hill....
what has passing 'go' in Ludo got to do with 'a battle to the Death in the chilling depths of space?'

Back OT: My Opinion:
The old fluff still olds true for 99% of Space Hulks Antics.
Basically Tyranid vanguard a space hulk... unmanned for decades, floating Rediscovered Marines.
mission...Cultists don't fit the current mainsteam fluff (sorry)...

Panic...............

Sorry about the rant. It was more to do with the time limit thing. Nuff said.
Also, everyone listen to Panic. I've taken the liberty of editing his previous post but this is what it's all about!

Balance wrote:I'd much rather see 'Space Hulk' as a general framework for quick-play games in the WH40k universe, but focusing on 'installations'.

I'd love to see it but I doubt it will ever happen!
Also
If it is made well enough we shouldn't need any flashy add ons. Terminators and Genestealers will do just fine!