Simply just what the title says. What units, wargear, characters, etc would you like to see make a come back from 3rd, 2nd or even RT?

For me there are a few.

There are so many old ork units that I'd love to see come back. Boar riders, squig herds, snotlings. Boar Riders at the very least should make a come back because right now Snakebites don't really have anything special in their list.

For Eldar I'd love to see Bonesingers make a return. They could have lots of squad support powers, adding D3 wounds to wraithlords, FNP for wraithguard or even erectng bone walls to form instant cover.

Space Wolves, I'd like to see Bjorn get rules again.

I'm also wondering where Cypher is these days but if I get started on Chaos and whats missing I'll never stop.

Three words:

Rapier.
Laser.
Destroyer.

Cypher.

Comedy option: virus grenades.

Robots and there finicky command system
I never got the chance to use them

I wish predators were still fast compared to other main battle tanks.

Back in the day, Leman Russ was super heavily armored, Land Raider also had the super-heavy armor role, and the predator was faster to make up for its lighter armor.

It no longer has a unique role in the armored metagame, it's just as slow as other tracked tanks, and yet has light armor too.

I think if all predators had overcharged engines as per the Baal, it would give them a more unique place in the game.

Harlequin Jetbikes, Solitaires and separate Death Jesters.

Ghost Warriors.

The funkier types of Ork artillery, like the original Pulsa Rokkit, Traktor Kannon, Squig Catapult etc.

Lost and the Damned.
Squats.
Grenades as weapons.
Old CSM armoury.

Lost and the Damned.
Squats.
Grenades as weapons.
Old CSM armoury.

All that, and Overwatch.

Definately grenades.

Eldar- Solitaires and the crystal targeting matrix but now as a coversave reducing option.
Prince Nadua and the Iyanden princess Ilyana(?)
Haywire grenades for guardians.

Squats- Just because I'm an oversized dwarf myself

Tau- Aun 'Shi

Tyranids- Ol' one eye

Overwatch

Lost and the damned

Old metal cadians

bring back doombreed, foulspawn, M'kachen and N'Kari - with the same stats and equipment as before

Madboyz! Orks are not crazy enough.

Eldar holo-suits.
all exodite stuff.
eldar pirates.

Old one eye.
red terror.
mutations like hive node.

ork madboyz.
da mad boy tower.
nazdreg (special character)

CSM with decent daemons rather than lesser's.
dreadclaws in normal games.
cypher.

all squats.


erm, ill think of more a bit later.

The dirty old man of the sisters of battle, Uriah Jacobson

Plasma Grenades

CSM + REAL demons
CSM god specific armies
CSM Dread comperable to 2nd edition
Defensive weapons = S5 and under

Cheese Elemental wrote:Lost and the Damned.
Squats.
Grenades as weapons.
Old CSM armoury.

That last bit. SO TRUE!
EDIT: and everything Techboss said!

Human Bombs
Penal Troopers
Beastman assault squads
Frenzon
Rapiers
Commissar training squads

havent seen the new chaos dex, but after that post i guess you can no longer make a daemon prince with 150 points of gear? (100 max for gifts i think)

if so, then i dont like the new one.
nothing wrong with a daemon prince with bezerker glaive and other nasties to make a combat monster.

Hallucinogen grenades. I want jones to act strangely again!

Save modifiers for a start would be nice


but i want these weapons back:

hand flamer.
needle pistol.
stub gun.
auxiliary grenade launchers.
bow.
crossbow.
hand bow.
musket.
needle sniper rifle.
heavy plasma gun functions.
heavy webber.
rapier laser destroyer.
tarantula.
thudd gun.

anti-plant grenades.
blind grendaes.
choke grenades.
hallucinogen grenades.
photon flash flares.
rad grenades.
scare grenades.
smoke grenades.
haywire (scrambler) grenades.
stasis grenades.
toxin grenades.
virus grenades.
vortex grenades.

If you want all that stuff... convince a friend to play 2nd ed with you.

i'd be happy for just a few things to come back

Well, if you combine the content of all of your posts in this thread, you've basically re-created 2nd ed. Just throw in overwatch that another poster mentioned and you're good to go.

i know, but you cant blame people for liking the old ways


just the save modifiers would be nice, kinda like WHFB.
just because a weapon wont kill your save doesent mean you should still get the normal save.
i like the old -1 to saves from a chainsword etc etc.

Eh, saving throw modifiers made power armor pretty worthless. Even a guardian with a shuriken catapult would reduce a marines saving throw to 5+. Most marine players I knew just loaded up on as many terminators and terminator-armored characters as they could, which IMO doesn't represent how marines are in the fluff.

Also, the AP system is actually a more accurate reflection of how armor actually works. In almost all cases, armor either protects the target from a shot, or it offers no protection, and there's very little "in between." For instance: most kevlar vests will stop a .45 shell every time, but fire a rifle shot at it and the vest offers next-to-no protection.

Genestealer Cult.

Jin wrote:Genestealer Cult.

willydstyle wrote:Eh, saving throw modifiers made power armor pretty worthless. Even a guardian with a shuriken catapult would reduce a marines saving throw to 5+. Most marine players I knew just loaded up on as many terminators and terminator-armored characters as they could, which IMO doesn't represent how marines are in the fluff.

My army was 20 terminators, 11 demons and 5 marines till 3rd rolled around. The delta with modifiers between 1D6 and 2D6 is huge. This is one reason terminators were so ass right after 3rd came out.

1st = massed roving templates
2nd = IG Beastmen
3rd = Squats

oh, yeah...

4th Dark Eldar

Of course, none of the above are likely, but still...

H.B.M.C. wrote:Three words:

Rapier.
Laser.
Destroyer.

Why? Wasn't it just a souped up lascannon artillery piece? How would you represent it in today's rules without being redundant?
(I'm not been sarcastic I'm geuinely curious.)

Fetterkey wrote:Cypher.

Comedy option: virus grenades.

Agreed, such promising fluff, one of the best 3rd ed marine models, such naff rules. He was surprisingly popular back in the day IIRC I bet some cool new rules and revealing a little bit more of the mystery (just a tiny bit more) would make him a big draw again and make fallen players really happy.

Virus grenades, no!

mussie76 wrote:Robots and there finicky command system
I never got the chance to use them

I doubt GW would ever write something so complex ever again but it would be cool. Epic would be a good place to put them I think. They could automatically pass command tests but have to react automatically based on their programming.

Fifty wrote:Harlequin Jetbikes, Solitaires and separate Death Jesters.

Ghost Warriors.

Solitaires need to make a return since their fluff is so damn cool. Make them a HQ choice that lets harlequins become troops and death jesters be taken as a seperate elites choice and the eldar dex can provide a simulcram of the old harlequin list. Having said that its much fluffier to just have them as a unit entry rather than a whole army. Solitaires need to come back in some way shape or form though.

What are ghost warriors?

lord_blackfang wrote:The funkier types of Ork artillery, like the original Pulsa Rokkit, Traktor Kannon, Squig Catapult etc.

Pulsas have Forgeworld rules (and are pretty cool). Squig catapults you can kind of counts as a lobba for although it is nothing like as funny as the original. Traktor Kannon's at the very least need an Apocalypse entry.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Lost and the Damned.
Squats.
Grenades as weapons.
Old CSM armoury.

Lost and the Damned I fully agree with. They seem like the most common army that the Imperial Guard would actually fight and its weird that they're so heavily represnted in the fluff but not at all in the game.

Plus you've gotta love plague zombies.

Squats. My favourite fantasy race is dwarves and I would love sonme kind of space dwarf army but squats are pretty meh. The fluff was never particularly great, their short guardsmen that hate orks. None of their units are especially attention grabbing (with the exception of the mole　mortar, which is now a thunderfire round) and the models were fugly. Plus the name is simply awful. I'd love some kind of space dwarf army but I don't really want it to be squats. I'd be farhappier if GW expanded the Demiurge into a playable force.

Grenades as weapons....it just slows down and complicates the game. I like the support role grenades have now personally. If you made tem weapons the best way to do it IMHO would just be to have them grant an additional attack when charging into combat at a pre-set strength.

focusedfire wrote:Eldar- Solitaires and the crystal targeting matrix but now as a coversave reducing option.
Prince Nadua and the Iyanden princess Ilyana(?)
Haywire grenades for guardians.

Squats- Just because I'm an oversized dwarf myself

Tau- Aun 'Shi

Tyranids- Ol' one eye

CTM made the Fire-prism worthwhile. Bring it back.
Who are these characters? I have the 2nd ed eldar dex and don't remember them (sadly I don't have it to hand now)
Storm Guardians at the very least need haywire grenades in order to be worthwhile.

Is Aun 'Shi not in the new dex? I didn't know that. Shame, he's a lovely model.
Ol' one eye can be replicated using the current rules.

Reaver83 wrote:bring back doombreed, foulspawn, M'kachen and N'Kari - with the same stats and equipment as before

And these are?

warpcrafter wrote:Madboyz! Orks are not crazy enough.

Oh HELL YES! Make them a str 5 elite choice with slugga and choppa, a behaviour table (1-3 roll for mad behaviour 4-6 act normally) then a tablke with various "mad" actions and some kind of dok upgrade for FNP and a re-roll on the mad table. Tons of fun.

JD21290 wrote:Eldar holo-suits.
all exodite stuff.
eldar pirates.

Old one eye.
red terror.
mutations like hive node.

ork madboyz.
da mad boy tower.
nazdreg (special character)

CSM with decent daemons rather than lesser's.
dreadclaws in normal games.
cypher.

holo-suits?
exodites wouldn't really constitute a whole army though. Add an option for dragons for autarchs and a dedicated non-guardian troop choice and you can pretty much simulate them with the current dex.
DE are competing with the old pirates and their fluff is so poorly defined to begin with that we don't want to relegate them further.

The specific mutations for me took away from the aesthetic appeal of the nids. Famous individuals kind of runs counter to the whole hive mind thing.

Nazdreg would be nice but frankly makkari the lucky grot is the ork character I most want to see.

CSM need their daemons back along with non-generic daemon weapons, decent marks, daemonic gifts, possessed that can take daemonic gifts, etc. The summoning mechanic needs to be toned down to prevent daemon bomb armies but daemons with some character is a must.
Dreadclaws? Why? I think it makes for a nice contrast between loyalists and chaos.

frgsinwntr wrote:The dirty old man of the sisters of battle, Uriah Jacobson

And he was?

Flagg07 wrote:Human Bombs
Penal Troopers
Beastman assault squads
Frenzon
Rapiers
Commissar training squads

Penal troopers are coming back.
Human bombs... take a depth charge?
Beastmen are a little bit too out there for guard IMHO.
What are frenzon.
Commissar training squads sounds like a hilariously bad idea. Tell me more.

JD21290 wrote:

hand flamer. - sisters have this
needle pistol. - iirc sisters have this too
stub gun. - por que?
auxiliary grenade launchers. - scoutbikers baby.
bow. - ...... you know its set in the future right?
crossbow. - weirdly sisters have this too.
hand bow. - ....the hell is a hand bow?
musket. - again, set in the future
needle sniper rifle. - no major problem with this but how would it different to a normal sniper rifle?
heavy plasma gun functions. - tell me more
heavy webber. - yes please, for eldar.
rapier laser destroyer.
tarantula. - I think there are forgeowlrd rules for this.
thudd gun. - pretty much reborn as the thunderfire gun

anti-plant grenades. - ugh, complicated and makes it difficult to model terrain
blind grendaes. - sure, actually don't tau have these?
choke grenades. - defensive grenades, surely
hallucinogen grenades. - sure, don't harlies get these? They used to IIRC
photon flash flares. - same as blind right? Defensive grenades.
rad grenades. - awesome, totally bitchin' grenades man.
scare grenades. - DE should definitely get some. Take a ld check when charged, if failed strike with 1 less attack.
smoke grenades. - OH HELL NO! Not unless they simplified the crap out of them.
haywire (scrambler) grenades. - eldar have these
stasis grenades. - might make a nice tau weapon, preventing assaulters.
toxin grenades. - makes a poisoned weapon attack when charging into assault would be a nice mechanic.
virus grenades. - NO. Just. NO.
vortex grenades. - in Apocalypse where it belongs.

see in quote

Jin wrote:Genestealer Cult.

Whilst a really cool idea I never saw them as being an army on a 40k scale. They belong more in necromunda and =][= if you ask me.

Doomrider.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:Comedy option: virus grenades.

Virus grenades, no!

Agreed. Massed Vortex Grenades and Pulsa Rokkits is where it's at...

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:

Fifty wrote:Ghost Warriors.

What are ghost warriors?

Wraithguard, but cooler.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Grenades as weapons....it just slows down and complicates the game.

Um, that is the entire point - if you're finishing the template phase in less than 15 minutes each turn, UR NOT DOIN IT RITE!

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:

Reaver83 wrote:bring back doombreed, foulspawn, M'kachen and N'Kari - with the same stats and equipment as before

And these are?

Chaos / Daemon Special Characters

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:

frgsinwntr wrote:The dirty old man of the sisters of battle, Uriah Jacobson

And he was?

A Priest.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Grenades as weapons....it just slows down and complicates the game.

Um, that is the entire point - if you're finishing the template phase in less than 15 minutes each turn, UR NOT DOIN IT RITE!

Yes, a 30 minute phase to watch smoke drift across the battlefield when everyone and their mother has some kind of gear that lets them see through it. What sterling game design.

I never played much 2nd ed but as far as I'm concerned the best decision GW ever made was to turn grenades from templates into just another squad ability.

It'd be great to have all the old school wacky grenades back (except virus grenades, NO!) but not as thrown weapons that take a sodding age to resolve.

Agreed. They should be Grenade Launcher upgrades.

Guard would be able to buy 4 GLs per Command Squad (lobbing 4 Vortex Grendade counters per turn), along with a couple SWS squads each lobbing another 3 Vortex Grenades per turn. Throw in counters from the HWS ML teams, and you could be generating upwards of 20 counters per turn.

That would be freakin' awesome!

JohnHwangDD wrote:Agreed. They should be Grenade Launcher upgrades.

Guard would be able to buy 4 GLs per Command Squad (lobbing 4 Vortex Grendade counters per turn), along with a couple SWS squads each lobbing another 3 Vortex Grenades per turn. Throw in counters from the HWS ML teams, and you could be generating upwards of 20 counters per turn.

That would be freakin' awesome!

I think you have raised facetiousness to a whole new level.

"raised", or lowered?

Different movement rates for different infantry and different vehicles. Especially vehicles - the current 6", 12", the coming 6+D6," or 24" really seems forced to me. Land Raiders shouldn't move at the same speed as Falcons. It just seems dumb.

as previously said....

Ghost Warriors.

edit: Oh yeah...and Warp Spiders that use Flamer templates when shooting.

The old Last Chancer rules with all the different characters.

One of my favorite games of 40k I ever played was nearly a decade ago when I played the Last Chancers in a huge, multi-table mega battle. I had them spread across two tables and managed to cause a fair amount of havoc.

snotlings and mad boys for sure!

also bjord would be welcom back,even if just to get anothe dred to corrupt!

as for wepons id love to see the hallosnagen 'nade back!

Rapiers (with anti tank rules), non generic Daemons with Chaos Space Marines, Imperial Robots & Ghost Warriors.

Carapace for Imperial guardsmen (not just veterans) beyond May.

I want VDR

Thinking of the future, I want Gaunt and Schaeffer back.

Bjorn and Njarl.

Oh wait, new Space Wolf Codex coming soon, and Ultras got 9 Specials...

< Taken by the void dragon. >

Eldar Pirates and Exodite Dragon Knights...

Standard bearers for armies other than SM

Allies allowing for a mixed army list

a proper publishing of a BA codex that is a bit more up to date.... and emmm, just make them in line with the other starter adepts.... you know what i mean!!!

EDIT: oh wait.... nevermind.... its not that old,

Yeah the BA are still viable never have trubble playin them plus their abbriviation is the best out of all the armies. I play BA marines. lol.

here you go purple:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180159_Blood_Angels_Codex_and_FAQ_2007-08_5th_Edition.pdf

up to date BA dex, and its free

Cheese Elemental wrote:Doomrider.

"Out of the mists of chaos he rides, bike in his crotch and sword at his side!
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM Rider!
Doom Rider.
Na na, na na.
He fights his own war, takes his own track, If he doesn't bail he might make his points back!
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM Rider!
Doom Rider.
Na na, na na.
Son of Slaanesh, full of desire, He does cocaine and his head's on fire!
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM Rider!
Doom rider.
Na na, na na.
Fights with fury of a dozen men, Spends two turns on the field then he's gone again...
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM Rider!
Doom Rider.
Na na, na na.
His bike squeals as it ploughs on through the nearest guard, His skull is flaming as his daemon sword gets hard!
DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM Rider!
Doom Rider.
Na na, na na.
He's a killer and he's bursting out for fun! Screaming off, now he's gone, someone rolled a one!"

George Spiggott wrote:Rapiers (with anti tank rules), non generic Daemons with Chaos Space Marines, Imperial Robots & Ghost Warriors.

Carapace for Imperial guardsmen (not just veterans) beyond May.

Everyone keeps saying Ghost Warriors. I have the 2nd ed eldar codex and I don't remember these guys. Can anyone tell me more about them?

Snotlings!

Genestealer Cults
Lost and the Damned

How 'bout a merging of 3d and 4th ed CSM. Take the few good things from 4th, and update all the things from 3d, et voila, a decent codex. Again. Unlike now.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Everyone keeps saying Ghost Warriors. I have the 2nd ed eldar codex and I don't remember these guys. Can anyone tell me more about them?

They're from Rogue Trader, they're a sort of close assault Wraithguard with Flamers, Chainfists and such.

Bjorn and Njal for Wolves

All the Arbites and Squats

Exodites for Eldar

Red Terror and Old One Eye

Rambo...ag sorry...Sly Marbo

The hunt the Fallen rule for dark angels was fun. And my chief Interrogator-Chaplin, he was fun.

It kind of made the Dark Angels the Dark Angels.

I think lost and the damned - I want zombies in 40k!

Individual, secret mission cards may be cool also, like 2nd ed - so one player may be wiping the others army out, while that player tries to wipe ut their HQ.

I am going to want effective Commissars and my Command Bubbles back for IG, come the new Codex. Also, Ogryns being back to as crappy as they are now, rather than how much more crappy they will be. In all seriousness, the difference in crap factor between current and future is greater than the current crap factor of Ogryns! This suggests an exponential function of crappiness in use on Ogryns! Well, at least math is being used SOMEWHERE in 40k nowadays.

(Humor Note : Firefox does not recognise both "math" and "Firefox" as correct spelling of "math" and "Firefox." In all seriousness; what?)

Cheese Elemental wrote:
Old CSM armoury.

Thats all what I want back. Oh and that Greater Daemons and Summoned Daemons gets their own stats. How Lord of Change can be as strong as Bloodthirster or how Bloodletters can be as strong as Daemonettes?

Skinnattittar wrote:I am going to want effective Commissars[...]

Yeah, keep dreamin' bud. We've never had those, and we never will.

Oh yeah, because Rerollable Ld9 and Stubborn are just utterly useless...

Indeed. And at the cost of 1 full Guardsman. RIP-OFF.

Actually, I believe, since there is no longer a Command "Bubble" Commissars ONLY affect the squad they are in, so on the line, you only get to reroll Ld7 at the cost of your highest Ld model. Modifiers apply, so IG still get taken in assault. All this, you have to remember, at 35ppm, for a single S3 T3 W1 Bolt Pistol and CCW model that costs... $12? Considering the Company Command squad is 50pts and does twice as much.... Basically from what I understand, they're just painfully overpriced. Only the Commissar Lord (1 per army) allows "Command Bubble" features at Ld10, for a hefty price however.

So yes, I will still call "Snafu" on Commissars being less effective than their points costs.

Makes the squad stubborn, and most squads have ld 8 through sergeants. They're that that brilliant but they're alright.

Guys, you DO realise you always use the highest Ld in the unit, which means you will use the Commisars Ld of 9

The return of the small and large flame template.

Belphegor wrote:The return of the small and large flame template.

We already have that

Reaver83 wrote:bring back doombreed, foulspawn, M'kachen and N'Kari - with the same stats and equipment as before

i was googling doombreed and found this pic i dont know if its,him but he really looks badass

Wow, that model is fantastic!

Chapter traits, only to give me a use for four Apothecaries in my marine army, curse 5th ed for taking that away

You can still use them... in Apocalypse!

From what I understand of how Commissars work (which I'm pretty sure is how it works, as it is the way I have always seen it) you use the highest Ld in the unit that is not the Commissar's, as they do not take over until they perform Summary Execution. And however you want to examine them, 35pts is still steep. Unless you are using them exclusively in Guardsmen units of 30 models or more (which should be possible in the new codex), they are over priced. How many points per Guardsmen are you willing to pay for Stubborn and getting to blow their commander's head off?

Well, I am not sure about 3rd or 4th edition (I'm old so my memory is bad) but in 5th, you ALWAYS use the highest Ld in the Unit.

Page 8: If a unit includes models with different Leadership values, always use the one with the highest Ld value.

Skinnattittar wrote: How many points per Guardsmen are you willing to pay for ... getting to blow their commander's head off?

As many as it takes. Hands down, this is the most awesome rule in the game.
Now all we need is a rule for all Orks with shootas to be able to fire into close combat...subtract the Orks BS from 7, and that is what the have to roll either above, or match, to hit the enemy. All rolls below are counted as hitting friendly units in close combat. Dakka dakka dakka!

On Commissars : For the time being, I will concede this point, though I will continue to feel they are over priced by 10-15ppm.

@ Che-Vito : So a basic BS roll where missing shots strike their own troops? Interesting, fun, but if anyone should get that rule it should be the Imperial Guard!

A Commissar Order, "Victory at All Costs," the unit will fire into close combat using their ballistic skill. Roll a D6 for every hit. On a 1, 2, or 3 they hit their own troops with that shot, on a 4, 5, or 6, they hit the opponent's models. No cover saves allowed.

DoomRider

Skinnattittar wrote:
@ Che-Vito : So a basic BS roll where missing shots strike their own troops? Interesting, fun, but if anyone should get that rule it should be the Imperial Guard!

I disagree, only because Imperial Guardsman aren't prone to killing each other to get ahead (exceptions exist, but not the standard), while for Orks it is commonplace. Anyways, mind you, the IG are getting jacked up enough by their new codex...they don't need to creep anymore IMHO

Squats!
Cyber Boars!
Madboyz!
White Dwarfs which are not only full of commercials!
Redshirted men who actually know the rules!

@ Che : It's actually a 50-50 deal, it neither hurts nor helps on its own, but is something you would apply in situations (and as I mentioned before, I think Commissars are over priced). As for how often it occurs, do you know what and where Commissars came from? The older fluff (not more modern Sandy Mitchel and Dan Abnet, but older like Gav Thorpe) has such things happening quite often, even going so far as during the battle for Armageddon whole armies of IG were sacrificed under bombs and fire from their own weapons when it appeared that the enemy might be about to over run the lines, and always whenever possible when they had.

Not how we want the IG to be depicted in today's 40k, but the new codex doesn't look like it is moving too far away from their roots, as much as I would prefer. But for me, Commissars should represent those older ideals of the Imperial Guard, so having them, and them alone, being able to order such a thing, is quite reasonable.

As for orks, well I've never really thought of them as firing into other orks they are allied with, as they want to fight and be seen fighting. Though perhaps I can not say.

I want Aun'shi back, and I want him to be bad-ass.

Squats as either its own army (no way in hell) or part of the the new Tau Federation as Demiurg.

Madboyz, cause come on you gotta love "I'm Soopa-Ork! The Madboyz are convinced that they can fly, and try to do so. "

Also Aun'shi the Bruce Lee of Tau.

Demiurgs allying with Tau? Definitely an Abhuman option allied to the Empire of Man!

I can take all of the #%$#^$^ that they have done to the Chaos Dex, but to leave out a 2-wound HQ? Thats epic-scale bulldust.

Not all of us game over 1000/1500 points and paying 100 pts plus is a bit much for smaller games. In a quick 500 pt lunchtime battle a decent Chaos HQ of say 130pts leaves very little for troops selections. I say bring back the old Luitenant/Sorceror entry. Drop the Inv save, 2 wounds, more limited eq, make him around 60 pts plus 10 pts if he wants to have a single psych power. The SM Vodex has a similiar probelm - the basic Captain is 100 pts! They also need a Luitenant with a lower cost to lead smaller games.

Skinnattittar wrote:Demiurgs allying with Tau? Definitely an Abhuman option allied to the Empire of Man!

Demiurg are already allied with Tau, they are the ones who gave Tau the Ion cannon technology and are with Tau in Battlefleet gothic so we know eventually Demiurg are going to be with Tau in a military format, so why not 1k years sooner.

Edit:Finishing an unfinished sentence.

Firstly, Battlefleet Gothic isn't really Cannon since it got moved over to Specialist Games (though I will admit that is still a matter of opinion, granted), next, I don't know of any Demiurg models outside of what Forge World supplies. The only thing I know of the Tau and the Demiurg as having trade relations (Ion Cannon technology).

Is it possible that the Demiurg will join the Tau someday? Um, this is a game, so yeah, whatever Games-Workshop wants to do with Space Dwarves is really their choice I guess. But to me, Squats should, and will, always are supposed to be a force for the Imperium of Man.

I don't disagree they SHOULD be with Imperium. I think they will end up being with Tau from what has been seen and in my interpretation of what I have seen.

But it is also possible for them to become the Ordo Xenos in 6th ed for all we know, cause you know GW loves rewriting the fluff of the game, granted its improbable but not impossible.

I want knight titans. A form of affordable titan and would be easily possible for GW to make from plastic.

Skinnattittar wrote:@ Che : It's actually a 50-50 deal, it neither hurts nor helps on its own, but is something you would apply in situations (and as I mentioned before, I think Commissars are over priced).

Are you serious?? This would be a HUGE advantage, even if it only worked 50% of the time!

Skinnattittar wrote:
As for orks, well I've never really thought of them as firing into other orks they are allied with, as they want to fight and be seen fighting. Though perhaps I can not say.

Read Ork fluff for about 5 minutes.

I think you vastly overrate what the Imperium should have, especially within the limits of game balance. I attempted to multiquote some of what you wrote below...but in summary...the Imperium is powerful...but crumbling. Making it "deh bestest force hurr!" just doesn't make sense.

@ Che : From all that I have seen about the Imperium, whether it is crumbling or condensing is up in the air. Read the histories of the Imperium, just in the current edition rulebook... well, you know what, I don't feel like going over all this because it has nothing to do with what I'm trying to say.

It is a 50-50 deal because half your guys are going to be hit and half the other guys are going to be hit. Considering the majority of these shots are going to be Lasguns v. a T3 or greater unit, you are most likely going to be losing more Guardsmen than your opponent will models. So you will have to play it where that will do more good than harm. Does it benefit? YES! Is it horribly mangling? Considering the number of MEQs my lasguns take out per turn, I somehow doubt it. Unless someone maths this, which is going to be extremely difficult, to prove exactly what would happen. I would say you will probably see a few more casualties on the opponent's side while the Guardsmen are getting their clocks cleaned faster than before! It's... there isn't anything I could say to convince you otherwise, is there...

Skinnattittar wrote:It's... there isn't anything I could say to convince you otherwise, is there...

Well on the count of firing into HTH for IG, no. Imperium fluff, yes...the fluff IS always changing!

The rule would be VERY powerful for IG if only the IG had it, and although they may be an army that it would make some fluff sense to have, I am still sold on Orks deserving it the most (granted, I'm not an Ork player). If every army had a unit that could do this (which for some wouldn't make sense) then the ability would be less powerful.

As things are right now, no unit can fire into HTH, and any unit having it would have a VERY special ability. The codex coming out in a few days already gives a fair number of those to the IG, and regardless of friendly v.s. enemy losses...it is still something that the IG doesn't need as much as some armies badly do.

Mind slaves
Grabber slashers

Actually no, but they were the only units I could think of that hadn't been mentioned already... But I agree with lots of what others have said.

Genestealer cults
Latd

rowan341 wrote:I want knight titans. A form of affordable titan and would be easily possible for GW to make from plastic.

You don't think GW can make a Warhound for $95 using the same number of sprues as a Baneblade or Stompa?

You don't think GW has that plastic Warhound ready to go at a moment's notice?

@ Che : I am not saying that Orks wouldn't do it, or that the IG should be the ONLY ones to have it, just that there is considerable fluff that I know of to support them having it, more so than Orks (that I know of). I could see an Ork with a lobba thinking "I'mma gonna hit doe's pink hummies wid mah boom pipe 'fore da ovah boyz geds to ahm!" and fire away, though do to extremely poor choices of aim, blasts his buddies away instead, or with a large automatic weapon, like lootaz, blow half of both party away as they approach each other, but I have not heard of an Ork running up to close combat and shooting at one side or the other. Though it would not surprise me and I would not stand in the way of the Orks getting a rule like YOU proposed (which would result in more Orks getting hit than their opponent, which is fluffy for Ork jealousy).

Che-Vito wrote:As things are right now, no unit can fire into HTH

Vindicare Assassins can not only fire into CC, but can pick out what model to remove

JohnHwangDD wrote:

rowan341 wrote:I want knight titans. A form of affordable titan and would be easily possible for GW to make from plastic.

You don't think GW can make a Warhound for $95 using the same number of sprues as a Baneblade or Stompa?

You don't think GW has that plastic Warhound ready to go at a moment's notice?

Oh they definitely can , but never will >:X

They'll charge it for $ 170 atleast -_-

@ Gwar : I was pretty sure there was at least one model that had that ability, and the Vindicare Assassin was one of the ones on that list.

@ Luna : I have trouble accepting such emo style posts, and people who use nondescript (read; completely random) anime(-esque) pictures for their avatars.

I definitely believe on day GW will release a plastic Titan model in the Baneblade price range, or at least well below $150. I would buy one even if I never end up using it! Much like my current Baneblade which is still awaiting construction because, well, it's a big model!

Maybe GW is waiting to release the Warhound when they raise the prices on all Superheavies to $115 or more?

Old?

The Zoat....lol....

Skinnattittar wrote:@ Gwar : I was pretty sure there was at least one model that had that ability, and the Vindicare Assassin was one of the ones on that list.

@ Luna : I have trouble accepting such emo style posts, and people who use nondescript (read; completely random) anime(-esque) pictures for their avatars.

I definitely believe on day GW will release a plastic Titan model in the Baneblade price range, or at least well below $150. I would buy one even if I never end up using it! Much like my current Baneblade which is still awaiting construction because, well, it's a big model!

I'm happy with the way she posts.

Its good to see girls in here... girls (most) like to communicate with emotion

you should try to talk to them (girls) sometime

(I'm just giving you a hard time)

@ frg : (I assumed as much) I was more trying to make a jab at the progressing social construct of valuing social symbols or styles of foreign or "new" cultures without having a proper foundation of understanding of that culture's history and reason. Their past, the evolution of the ideals arts and styles that they use and what they represent. Rather, many folks of that support, carry, or encourage these new fads have little to no understanding of what they are saying, how others perceive them, and the fact that what they are doing their own culture might find offensive. This is largely due to an inability of such people to understand, or more often refusing to understand, their own culture, deriving from a central theme of denial to avoid becoming like their parents whom they might view as their oppressors, their teachers, or their masters. These young or displaced individuals rarely realize that their own intentional avoidance more often than not is a direct parody of their own parent's period of lashing out and denial, thus continuing a cycle which will inevitably complete itself with this subject person becoming their own parents with time, spawning their own children, and continuing the cycle of oppression, rebellion, strife to feel accepted, coming home to their origins, and rebirth as a member of their origin culture....

Um... right, now what was all that?

I love how you claim that Luna has no understanding of "the progressing social construct of valuing social symbols or styles of foreign or "new" cultures without having a proper foundation of understanding of that culture's history and reason" when you don't actually know her.

Bigotry is fun!

Actually that whole "rant" was supposed to be one long joke. Think, Monty Python the parts that nobody remembers because it was so flamboyant. It's a very dry humor that doesn't translate well into type.

EDIT : Actually, I didn't even point that AT Luna to begin with! So Gwar; Shut the hell up!

I think you are all very, very silly.

Te-he

You can make a Carnifex with the same stats and rules as Old One Eye in the new codex, and there's no points limit so you can use him in larger games.
When I got the new Codex the first thing I did was make OOE. I use him to this day, I just don't call him that.

I want the Solitaire back. Seriously, where did he go?

Lost and The Damned
Genestealer Cult
God-Specific Daemons
Squats
Kroot

Basically the legalization of all the "niche" armies.

A good Chaos Codex.

The current codex is so bland and unpredictable it makes me cry. I want to see the incredible range of options we had in the previous edition codex, though I don't necessarily need the overpowered DPs or any of that. It is painful to me to have a chaos codex with absolutely nothing about it being chaotic or providing significant options for customization of any kind. With the current codex, we lost alot of special variant army lists, such as Iron Warriors, for "balance" purposes, but there are 4 or 5 different SM codices, AND they have special characters that allow them to change the entire makeup of the vanilla codex!

I also agree with the general desire for aforementioned niche armies like Genestealer Cults, Feral Orks, LatD, and Harlequins as their own army.

I want the old IG doctrines back, cause they were awesome!

Why do so many people want squats back? Is it just supposed to be a running gag or are they serious? Because I only remember SEEING them, either as proxy or for an older edition battle, though that was eons ago, before the C'Tan were even around!

Cryonicleech wrote:Lost and The Damned
Genestealer Cult

See Codex: IG?

Cryonicleech wrote:God-Specific Daemons

Codex: Daemons addresses this just fine.

Unless you need to mix Marines, in which case, you're playing Apoc...

Cryonicleech wrote:Squats

Codex: Orks is actually a pretty good proxy for a counts-as list. You'd have to rename & relabel a lot of stuff, but playability is good, and you retain your S3 T4 basic statline.

Cryonicleech wrote:Kroot

No help here, sorry.

DEATHWATCH KILL TEAMS AND ARMIES

Fallenbourne wrote:DEATHWATCH KILL TEAMS AND ARMIES

It seems that for GW, the Ordos Xenos is [data missing]...

Genestealer Cult. I have quite a few of 'em from 2nd edition... but that army shall grow no more Converting them rarely stands out awesome-wise.

Ends up with an IG torso and legs with a genestealer head. Epic fail.

But some are great!!


Also I'd just like it to be 2nd edition again... when we had space dwarfs, virus grenades and (lol) Heavy Webbers.

5th edition sucks.

ANTI-PLANT MISSILES!
Cover save? What cover save!?!

Perturabo's Chosen wrote:ANTI-PLANT MISSILES!
Cover save? What cover save!?!

That's what President Johnson calls "napalm".

I want my Eldar Dreadnaught back.
What about Mole Mortar, Tarantulas (two weapons of same type), Thudd Gun, Robots, Flesh Hounds.
Off Table Support 0 - 1000 points supporting fire.

I also want supporting fire in the form of the preliminary bombardment rule back

I want tank heavy Imperial guard back, but modified to be able to take the squadrons as a troop choice, not an individual one. I just want to see 18 leman russ punishers rolling down the table and put out 360 shots. I don't care that it is a ridicules waste of points or that there is almost no way you could win like that it would be funny.

Give me back my old AC list..
I could field 15 LRBT's with upgrades that make the current codex cry in terror for 2000 pts.

5th Edition is my first foray into 40K but I will chime in and agree that grenades should be brought back as weapons you can throw before you assault...or if that isn't how they're used then perhaps that should be updated.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

rowan341 wrote:I want knight titans. A form of affordable titan and would be easily possible for GW to make from plastic.

You don't think GW can make a Warhound for $95 using the same number of sprues as a Baneblade or Stompa?

You don't think GW has that plastic Warhound ready to go at a moment's notice?

1) I'm british so I don't know hot much $95 is

2) It'd be nice to see knight titans also because they bridge the gep between dread and titan

3) I think that if GW wanted to they could do a plastic warhound but I still think it'll cost a lot more

1. $95 is the same price as a Baneblade / Stompa / Shadowsword. A Warhound, being of the same category, should cost the same.

2. I'd like to see Knights, but there are "issues" due to them being such tiny superheavies (relatively speaking). They'd be 2 SP with a Titan CCW and a single gun. And they'd have to price below a Warhound, but above a Land Raider. For the effort in making one, GW might as well sculpt another major Superheavy instead of a Titan.

3. Warhound isn't so big that it would require any more sprues than a Baneblade / Stompa, so the cost would make sense. But GW missed that chance when they priced the Stompa at $95. If the Stompa were $120, then GW would have similar room to bump the price a Warhound at a higher price point.

Tyranid Exocrines. A tank with an anti-tank gun would be nice...