From BOLS <-----click for link

BOLS wrote:
Hi guys,

More whispers regarding the best Warhammer 40k boardgame ever made, Space Hulk.

Talk about the tubes is that when Games Workshop sets their mind on something they go all the way. Space Hulk is being described as a full bore rework with all the bells and whistles you could ever want.

Sources say to expect it in Q3 2009, and we have heard tales of modular plastic boards, an extensive set of large scale sprues with all the termys and genestealers you can shake a stick it, and all new fancy elements such as sliding doors and the like. There might even be a need for batteries (perhaps). Expect a full sized boxed game that will make all you cry with tears of joy.

~I was somewhat excited after our last Space Hulk rumor, but its looking like its not going to be just a simple re-release but a hefty overhaul. Now I'm excited!

Cant wait.

I also heard something like this. My friend who once went to England said the artwork is fantastic, the fluff is brilliant the models are way cool and everyone will want to play Space Hulk.

If true this news kicks all sorts of ass! Damn GW and their slow moving schedule of releases.

Like I said... I cant wait.

This has me mildly concerned:

extensive set of large scale sprues

I hope by 'lage scale' sprues they mean big sprues (ala Baneblade) filled to the gills with Space Hulk goodness, and not 35mm+ Genestealer/Termy models.

On the bright side, if it does turn out to be a game with a different scale, the tiles will be quite large, and great for Dark Heresy (biggest issue with current Hulk tiles is that most of them are 1-square-wide corridors... and tracking down the 3-wide corridoes from Genesteler is a bitch).

Still, I am looking forward to this even if it is just from a modelling perspective.

I would love a 35mm, or even better, Inquisitor scale, Terminator.

But I guess they will just be packed.

H.B.M.C. wrote:35mm+ Genestealer/Termy models.

I'd heard this might be a possibility(which will tick off a huge part of the market, as will this next part) as well as them being Prepainted(don't tear me apart for this, it's just what I'd heard as something they're considering).

i wonder if thell be deathwing or BA like they were origonaly....(sorry for my spelling, i havent found an addon that can cope with my error rate, )

That would be stupid if they were the wrong scale, they would be eliminating a big part of the market. All kinds of 40K players would snatch those up, jut like AoBR. So long as the boxed termies are of higher quality, people will still buy them.

I never played spacehulk, but I am looking forward to it. If you can use the models in 40K too, I will grab a copy of it.

Now if they will only redo Heroquest (Of Warhammer Quest, whatever). That game brings back some great childhood memories.

Reecius wrote:That would be stupid if they were the wrong scale, they would be eliminating a big part of the market. All kinds of 40K players would snatch those up, jut like AoBR. So long as the boxed termies are of higher quality, people will still buy them.

This is, absurd as it may sound, the exact reason that they are considering larger scale models. They're apparently afraid that if it's priced in the $60-80 price range, people would constantly plop that down for 10 Termies + 'Stealers instead of $50 for 5 multi-part termies.

35mm models would be cool (since I've stopped playing 40k anyway) if a bit of a pain for people who kept their old editions.

huge termies?
real scale marine players dreams come true

and i can get some super stealers
cut 1 set of claws, add talons and you have a unit of warriors that fit a stealer theme

JD21290 wrote:huge termies?
real scale marine players dreams come true

and i can get some super stealers
cut 1 set of claws, add talons and you have a unit of warriors that fit a stealer theme

Add an Inq scale 'Stealer and you've got a Fex, too.

Platuan4th wrote:

Reecius wrote:That would be stupid if they were the wrong scale, they would be eliminating a big part of the market. All kinds of 40K players would snatch those up, jut like AoBR. So long as the boxed termies are of higher quality, people will still buy them.

This is, absurd as it may sound, the exact reason that they are considering larger scale models. They're apparently afraid that if it's priced in the $60-80 price range, people would constantly plop that down for 10 Termies + 'Stealers instead of $50 for 5 multi-part termies.

Well I have to say that as excited as I am about the 'Hulk and what I'm hearing about it, a different scale will definitely make me sit back a moment and say "Hmmmm...."

Part of the fun of the original game was that it was a cool lead in to 40K/Rogue Trader. Heck I don't play 40K now, but if I already had 10 40k scale Terminators and however many Genestealers, I might just decide to start up an army.

The other part of the fun was that you could easily have other races on the Hulk. After all Chaos and Orks also make a great Hulk infestation

nah, thats too big, stealers look too squishy for a fex stand in, would have to go to town on carapace and a exo-skelly for him, more trouble than its worth when you can grab 3 fex's for £50

just a side note here, but if its cheap (ie, like black reach) then of course they will sell tons more.
i know plenty of people on dakka that brought 5+ AOBR box sets simply for the cheap models

Jack of all games wrote:Part of the fun of the original game was that it was a cool lead in to 40K/Rogue Trader. Heck I don't play 40K now, but if I already had 10 40k scale Terminators and however many Genestealers, I might just decide to start up an army.

No doubt, and I hope it's not true, I'd love to buy a couple sets(and a couple more AoBR sets) to bulk up my Death Wing.

and we have heard tales of modular plastic boards, an extensive set of large scale sprues with all the termys and genestealers you can shake a stick it

No, you're thinking of Litko Aerosystems, they make a couple of great kits called space corridors and industrial towers.

Space Hulk sounds like a lot of fun.

It would be too bad if they decided to make them 35mm, my friend plays Double Wing, and I'm sure that he'd love to pick up some cheap Terminators, while my friend who wants to play Tyranids would gladly pay for this set as well.

Plus the corridors sound like a lot of fun.

In the end though, if it's cheap, I'll want to get it.

Shuma, I think I've heard of Litko Aerosystems. Don't they make those nice Space Corridors and Industrial towers?

Oh Jesus not this again...


Shoudln't Space Hulk be gagateway drug for 40K? Making the models unusable in 40K would seem to go against that.

Oh Jesus not this again...

HBMC hates laser cut wood terrain.

Shoudln't Space Hulk be gagateway drug for 40K? Making the models unusable in 40K would seem to go against that.

At least it would make truscale marines easier? *shrug*

You would think they would learn from LOTR about figure scale.

ShumaGorath wrote:

and we have heard tales of modular plastic boards, an extensive set of large scale sprues with all the termys and genestealers you can shake a stick it

No, you're thinking of Litko Aerosystems, they make a couple of great kits called space corridors and industrial towers.

Thread won.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Shoudln't Space Hulk be gagateway drug for 40K?

Should it? I thought the whole reason for it being remade was to appeal to vets, not to the new kids.

Kill two birds with one stone. How many vets want up-scaled Termies they can't use with their existing army?

Platuan4th wrote:

Reecius wrote:That would be stupid if they were the wrong scale, they would be eliminating a big part of the market. All kinds of 40K players would snatch those up, jut like AoBR. So long as the boxed termies are of higher quality, people will still buy them.

This is, absurd as it may sound, the exact reason that they are considering larger scale models. They're apparently afraid that if it's priced in the $60-80 price range, people would constantly plop that down for 10 Termies + 'Stealers instead of $50 for 5 multi-part termies.

With 5 Termies, a Tac Squad and a Dreadnought (plus some miscellaneous non-Space Marine stuff) in the AoBR box, is this really an issue anymore?

If competing with the Terminators box was really an issue, I don't think they'd have been included in AoBR. (Thinking about it, those Terminators are actually pretty big to begin with - 40mm base and probably close to 35mm tall already.)

Exactly.

I don't think they're going to be a larger scale. I think the large scale sprues is meant to say that the sprues will be big like the baneblade or stompa.

I do hope the full overhaul of the rules gives us something really nice, hopefully something similiar to decent.

Why does a shiver run down my spine at the prospect of completely rewritten rules?

Oh well, hopefully the terrain will make it a worthy purchase. I can already see the boarding parties fighting ship security over an objective.

Are there not some 1st ed rules floating arround out there to down load? If so, if they remake everything, but the rules suck it, may just go back to my old favourite 1st ed, but with spanking new scenery! :-) I'd still be a happy bunny!

Cool a new space hulk game will definitely be a purchase for me, i loved the first game when it came out and still have some of the models from it! I get the feeling the models will be same scale as normal 40k models, perhaps the plastic terminators in AoBR are a test bed for the new models in space hulk? If so i cant wait because the ones in AoBR are great for clip together models? We would get the best of both worlds, a great new board game and also when the need arises additional termies for the important annialation mission or additional stealers to tear apart the foe!

bring it on!

i would like to see GW break from the 40k scale for this. simply to just break from the obviously huge hardcore follwoing of 40k, which can scare a lot of less enthusiastic people off it. and IMO large termies would have to feature big in my "wants" list

If they are planning on doing a complete box set which includes plastic moulded tiles & walls, then I'm more than happy for it to be 35mm. As far as I can see, even if SH was released at the same scale as before, GW would still see AoBR as their "gateway" game. AoBR is far more forgiving than SH when it comes to game play.

If GW was going to play with the scale I'd figure they'd go smaller not bigger. 15mm or so to allow for squeezing more into the box and for bigger layouts.

I don't really see them doing this, but that's how it would go.

Why are people saying 35mm?

I remember when the first Epic Terminators came out, our gaming group at the time messed about with Epic Space Hulk.... daft, but amusing game :-)

look at the rumors spin doctors...

One theory about a word format and weird a guess they could be larger scale and all of a sudden they're supposed to be larger scale.

They won't. I hope the real rumor in the beginning is true. It'll make business and hobby sense and introduce new folks to the game, please the old bears and the 40k players and the =I=munda etc. get super sweet terrain for their skirmish/narrative/RPG set ups.

I played lot wih the first one. My friend still has it, and using the genestealer and terminator modells for 40k.
Maybe i'll purchase this one and play Dark Heresy battles (we playing a small noble family lost its money and power, and recuitted by Ig) in it.

If it is going to be a completely new rule system, I am already shaking with fear for what they will do to that wonderful little defenceless game...

Have no fear, Jervis will use lubrication and Viagra to make it as pleasing as possible when that "certain handsome and rugged designer" goes over the rules.

BrookM wrote:Have no fear, Jervis will use lubrication and Viagra to make it as pleasing as possible when that "certain handsome and rugged designer" goes over the rules.

I just imagined that...

Anything other than the standard scale equates to a no buy for me.

Take a look at things objectively.

Like it or not, GW is primarily a business (as HBMC points out) and they're going to focus on what is best for their bottom line.

If they completely change the rules and/or make the models a different scale, then that will be a business decision. Quite a few posters say that they won't buy the game in this case but I wonder if GW cares? What should we do - start a petition or something to tell them we won't buy it if they don't listen to us?

It would make no difference in the slightest and I doubt that the "veteran" gamers are the products intended market. Space Hulk is likely to only be a one-off purchase and they may well target it at non-40k players as a reasonably cheap introduction. I doubt if GW will make Space Hulk into another AoBR.

The real money is still made in WH and WH40k - as long as they keep tempting people into these, they can and will change the "specialist" games to get people hooked.

BrookM.... that is just Nasty!

I don't care about the scale, but if they make it much larger, I probably won't be buying.

Why? The original barely fit onto a kitchen table. (And that was the "normal" missions from the book) Any increase in scale is going to make this much harder to do. It could also mean smaller maps, with few tactical options, due to the decreased size of the maps. It also means that any tiles included in the game are going to be fewer, since larger size means more material. If they do change the scale to make it incompatible with 40K I'd prefer to see something smaller, not larger. Honestly though 25/30 mm is a really nice sweet spot for skirmish models.

Konrad Carstein wrote:Take a look at things objectively.

Like it or not, GW is primarily a business (as HBMC points out) and they're going to focus on what is best for their bottom line.

If they completely change the rules and/or make the models a different scale, then that will be a business decision. Quite a few posters say that they won't buy the game in this case but I wonder if GW cares? What should we do - start a petition or something to tell them we won't buy it if they don't listen to us?

It would make no difference in the slightest and I doubt that the "veteran" gamers are the products intended market. Space Hulk is likely to only be a one-off purchase and they may well target it at non-40k players as a reasonably cheap introduction. I doubt if GW will make Space Hulk into another AoBR.

The real money is still made in WH and WH40k - as long as they keep tempting people into these, they can and will change the "specialist" games to get people hooked.

I know quite a few board gamers who will buy Space Hulk the instant it is released. They have absolutely no desire to play Warhammer 40K.

Space Hulk should be able to stand alone as its own product, however, I agree that it would be a nice place to start in to 40K if the models are 28mm heroic. If the terrain is indeed plastic, and indeed awesome I could see buying a 2nd set or getting the terrain on ebay (or bitz services) because a Hulk board would be cool.

As mentioned it could also be used in Dark Heresy or the upcoming Rouge Trader RPG which sounds way cool.

Lagduf wrote:

Konrad Carstein wrote:Take a look at things objectively.

Like it or not, GW is primarily a business (as HBMC points out) and they're going to focus on what is best for their bottom line.

If they completely change the rules and/or make the models a different scale, then that will be a business decision. Quite a few posters say that they won't buy the game in this case but I wonder if GW cares? What should we do - start a petition or something to tell them we won't buy it if they don't listen to us?

It would make no difference in the slightest and I doubt that the "veteran" gamers are the products intended market. Space Hulk is likely to only be a one-off purchase and they may well target it at non-40k players as a reasonably cheap introduction. I doubt if GW will make Space Hulk into another AoBR.

The real money is still made in WH and WH40k - as long as they keep tempting people into these, they can and will change the "specialist" games to get people hooked.

I know quite a few board gamers who will buy Space Hulk the instant it is released. They have absolutely no desire to play Warhammer 40K.

Space Hulk should be able to stand alone as its own product, however, I agree that it would be a nice place to start in to 40K if the models are 28mm heroic. If the terrain is indeed plastic, and indeed awesome I could see buying a 2nd set or getting the terrain on ebay (or bitz services) because a Hulk board would be cool.

As mentioned it could also be used in Dark Heresy or the upcoming Rouge Trader RPG which sounds way cool.

Rouge Trader...?!

Is this a whole new rumour; are GW branching out into something else entirely...?!!!!

Rouge Trader RPG is a supplement/expansion to the Dark Heresy RPG released a year ago or so.

I was talking about "Rouge" not "Rogue"

sorry, just my sense of humour...I'll get my coat.

ROGUE you gits, ROGUE. Not rouge.

Indead, "Rouge trader" is the new Eldar suppliment, something else entirely.... :-)

Or should that be "Rough Trader"? :-))

Druidic wrote:Or should that be "Rough Trader"? :-))

And now we're talking about Jervis and the Viagra again...

Inceidentalty HBMC, you ever met our 7ft viking friend Warwick? He may be a cut and paste rules guy, but he's sweet with it :-)

Konrad Carstein wrote:

Lagduf wrote:

Konrad Carstein wrote:Take a look at things objectively.

Like it or not, GW is primarily a business (as HBMC points out) and they're going to focus on what is best for their bottom line.

If they completely change the rules and/or make the models a different scale, then that will be a business decision. Quite a few posters say that they won't buy the game in this case but I wonder if GW cares? What should we do - start a petition or something to tell them we won't buy it if they don't listen to us?

It would make no difference in the slightest and I doubt that the "veteran" gamers are the products intended market. Space Hulk is likely to only be a one-off purchase and they may well target it at non-40k players as a reasonably cheap introduction. I doubt if GW will make Space Hulk into another AoBR.

The real money is still made in WH and WH40k - as long as they keep tempting people into these, they can and will change the "specialist" games to get people hooked.

I know quite a few board gamers who will buy Space Hulk the instant it is released. They have absolutely no desire to play Warhammer 40K.

Space Hulk should be able to stand alone as its own product, however, I agree that it would be a nice place to start in to 40K if the models are 28mm heroic. If the terrain is indeed plastic, and indeed awesome I could see buying a 2nd set or getting the terrain on ebay (or bitz services) because a Hulk board would be cool.

As mentioned it could also be used in Dark Heresy or the upcoming Rouge Trader RPG which sounds way cool.

Rouge Trader...?!

Is this a whole new rumour; are GW branching out into something else entirely...?!!!!

Excuse me, Rogue Trader

A Rouge Trader is a special kind of Rogue Trader...yes....specializing in feminine facial products in the 41st millenium....

Techboss wrote:Anything other than the standard scale equates to a no buy for me.

Same here.

I'd imagine that someone, somewhere in GW realizes that they'd probably sell more if it is in the existing 40K scale than if it isn't...

And, as has been previously mentioned, regarding the ridiculously priced multi-part and poseable plastic Terminator set, AoBR should have removed that particular 'fear' from the equation.

I want to repeat Kyoto-sama's question: where are we getting 35mm from? The quote from BOLS says:

Sources say to expect it in Q3 2009, and we have heard tales of modular plastic boards, an extensive set of large scale sprues with all the termys and genestealers you can shake a stick it, and all new fancy elements such as sliding doors and the like. There might even be a need for batteries (perhaps). Expect a full sized boxed game that will make all you cry with tears of joy.

Okay, large-scale could be read meaning bigger (or as one pointed out, smaller) figures than 28mm, but a specific scale/size?

Since they've already got the sprues for simple genestealers and terminators worked out (or easily cut via CAD) from BFM and AOBR, it seems silly that'd they'd go bigger/smaller. Plastic terrain would be nice. I'm also worried about the rules, but nothing stopping you from finding a copy of the old rules somewhere on the 'net and using those with your shiny new candy-like figures. That's what I'd do if they didn't come out with the terrain sprues by themselves

syr8766 wrote:I want to repeat Kyoto-sama's question: where are we getting 35mm from? The quote from BOLS says:

I got 35mm from when I first heard about the Space Hulk release in January and was told that the studio was considering it as a possibility. Note, NOT a confirmation it's being done, just one of many things they considered.

This is what net rumours are all about... everyone can spread nutty rumours based on... whatever

A space hulk, new nid codex next year and a plastic trygon... I just need plastic gargs and I can die a happy bug.

NAVARRO wrote:... I just need plastic gargs and I can die a happy bug.

Hmmm... when the next 'nid codex rolls around you might be a happy bug indeed.

*sound of squealing brakes*

Plastic gargoyles, you say? Hmm. I probably have 40 of the 2nd edition version. Might be nice to finally upgrade.

Back on topic, perhaps the corridors, etc. will just be larger to fit a 40mm terminator base.

Platuan4th wrote:

syr8766 wrote:I want to repeat Kyoto-sama's question: where are we getting 35mm from? The quote from BOLS says:

I got 35mm from when I first heard about the Space Hulk release in January and was told that the studio was considering it as a possibility. Note, NOT a confirmation it's being done, just one of many things they considered.

The whole 'prepainted' rumor sounds like a lot of Rackham Kool-Aid drinking too...

Alpharius wrote:The whole 'prepainted' rumor sounds like a lot of Rackham Kool-Aid drinking too...

Why, because I'm a Rackham Sentinel?

Look, it's just what I've heard from sources that it's something GW is considering, I'm not saying it's true. Let's not turn this thread into another nerd rage R hate fest because you disagree with R's new direction.

did anyone said the R word? I dont care if they obliterated metal range out of this planet... the plastid gargoyles wisperings are literally above all that sillyness.

Its a good moment to be a bug fan in GW universe nothing can spoil me that.

Platuan4th wrote:

Alpharius wrote:The whole 'prepainted' rumor sounds like a lot of Rackham Kool-Aid drinking too...

Why, because I'm a Rackham Sentinel?

Look, it's just what I've heard from sources that it's something GW is considering, I'm not saying it's true. Let's not turn this thread into another nerd rage R hate fest because you disagree with R's new direction.

Er, where was the rage?

GW has said time and again that the 'hobby' aspect remains a key one in their overall strategy.

Bringing up the "PPP" thing based on who knows what is far more likely to incite 'nerd rage' than just mentioning the "r" word.

i heard rackham is going to but the space hulk brand and release it in limited edition metal minis then pull it and rerelease it in PPP with limited edition dice...

Platuan4th wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:35mm+ Genestealer/Termy models.

I'd heard this might be a possibility(which will tick off a huge part of the market, as will this next part) as well as them being Prepainted(don't tear me apart for this, it's just what I'd heard as something they're considering).

It wouldn't tick off nearly as many as it would give month long boners.

The miniatures will be regular scale (28mm) and the terminators will be Blood Angels... really sweet looking too.

G

Loved the Game when it was out. Can't wait for a "NEW" release.

Opps misunderstanding guys...

By large scale I meant to say multiple of the oversized baneblade scale sprues. So LOTS of stuff, but the same scale as 40k.

Alpharius wrote:Er, where was the rage?

GW has said time and again that the 'hobby' aspect remains a key one in their overall strategy.

Bringing up the "PPP" thing based on who knows what is far more likely to incite 'nerd rage' than just mentioning the "r" word.

I never said YOU were raging, I said not to turn it into an anti-R rage like always seems happen when discussing PPP.

Also, I mention the PPP thing because it's something a studio member mentioned they(GW) were considering for Space Hulk to the person who told me. It's not out of left field or something I added.

Got two sets of the original SH when it was released (actually, had a mate pick them up while in blighty that year - saved me about 50% overall).

It was added to with DW and GS add-ons. Still have all the rules and board sections, but none of the genestealers or plastic terminators (1st ed termies were crap).

Didin't bother with bfBR, but this might just make me buy it again - just for the corridor systems.

Platuan4th wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Er, where was the rage?

GW has said time and again that the 'hobby' aspect remains a key one in their overall strategy.

Bringing up the "PPP" thing based on who knows what is far more likely to incite 'nerd rage' than just mentioning the "r" word.

I never said YOU were raging, I said not to turn it into an anti-R rage like always seems happen when discussing PPP.

Also, I mention the PPP thing because it's something a studio member mentioned they(GW) were considering for Space Hulk to the person who told me. It's not out of left field or something I added.

True enough!

It just seems that certain Rackham apologists would love for another big company to go the PPP route so that can either shout "I told you so!" or have the "Misery Loves Company" group get larger as another game company goes down in flames.

I really don't see GW doing that.

batteries and gw also hopefully means rc tanks?

bigred wrote:By large scale I meant to say multiple of the oversized baneblade scale sprues. So LOTS of stuff, but the same scale as 40k.

That's what I suspected - large scale sprues as opposed to large scale models.

Much better.

Alpharius wrote:It just seems that certain Rackham apologists would love for another big company to go the PPP route so that can either shout "I told you so!" or have the "Misery Loves Company" group get larger as another game company goes down in flames.

Ah. I could honestly care less if GW goes the PPP route, no matter how much I love the AT-43 minis. I would still have to paint them to my paint schemes no matter what.

Just to plug something I wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Space_Hulks_and_Boarding_Actions

40k rules for fighting on starships.

I don't see why GW wouldn't do PPP.

I bet they would do it in a heartbeat if they thought it would increase sales.

Everyone used to play with PP figures in the good old days of Britains toy soldiers.

Don't you dare bring Britains into this!

Kilkrazy wrote:I don't see why GW wouldn't do PPP.

I bet they would do it in a heartbeat if they thought it would increase sales.

Everyone used to play with PP figures in the good old days of Britains toy soldiers.

Other than the fact that they've repeatedly said they wouldn't do it?

Other than the fact that the 'hobby' side of things (paints, brushes, tools, etc.) brings a lot of revenue in for them?

Sure, GW have 'changed their minds' before, but I don't think we'll be seeing PPP from them for a long, long time.

Regardless of what Duncan Idaho says!

There's a lot of idle capacity in China right now and shipping is dirt, dirt cheap.

If someone wanted to start a pre-painted game this would be the time.

GW does not necessarily make a decision just to boost sales. They tend to look upon decisions taking the long view.

G

Long term view is that unpainted minis are better to work with than pre-painted.

id prefer unpainted, but if they came out pre painted there is always a spray can?

A multi level board would be neat for the rework.

One that stacks, with possible ladder hatches, and ripped out holes in the floors and cealings.

Is it true that each SH gamebox comes with a copy of StarCraft: Ghost compatible with PS2/PS3/X-Box 360?



What?

Where did you hear that? Talk about left field.

Besides, Ghost is vapourwear.

The minis will not be prepainted.

G

The minis will be pre-painted.

H








See how easy it is to do that? I could say anything, and everyone would just have to take it on face value.

Green - You base your comment on? I'm not saying that you're wrong or even that I don't believe you, I'd just like a little more than a statement with nothing to back it up.

Plantuan4th: Thanks for the clarification.

For any other game company, I would absolutely believe they were thinking PPP and/or a change in scale, but since GW didn't do it with BFM, BFSP and AOBR, I'd doubt they'd go that route with a game like this. AND they've seen how well the Pre-Painted/resized Warzone/Mutant Chronicles did, so that should encourage them to go the route vets would anticipate.

Then again, if they chose to license it to, say, FFG (a la Talisman), either as a limited run or on a permanent basis, then all bets are off.

Of course, this could all be a red herring, but it'd be interesting to see it return.

GW has spent how many millions in their current plastics technology?

Rackham basically had to bet the farm on PPP technology. GW prefers to do everything in house, so the China argument doesn't fly either (plus GW doesn't want legions of knock-off unbranded Space Marines coming out of that factory after hours).

I'd really be surprised if GW departed dramatically from their established technology and business methods.

Most boardgamers don't really care about the painting anyway - take a look at FFG's Descent and Doom which are the closest competition to Space Hulk.

The games that do feature PPP (e.g. Tannhauser) rely on that as a gimmick. They're a tiny minority really.

PPP really doesn't make sense at all in this context.

Asmodai wrote:Rackham basically had to bet the farm on PPP technology. GW prefers to do everything in house, so the China argument doesn't fly either (plus GW doesn't want legions of knock-off unbranded Space Marines coming out of that factory after hours).

Also the last time GW went off shore for something we got the Realm of Battle Ripoff with the magically expanding price tag - something I am certain GW neither wanted nor planned for and simply wasn't their fault. I really doubt they'd want to head down that road again if there's even a chance of getting bitten like that again.

Like I said the minis will be 28mm, not painted and the terminators will be Blood Angels. You'll just have to take my word for it.

G

I also hear the art will be fantastic, the rules will be great, and everyone will want to play Space Hulk.

Honestly, in the end, I don't care about the models. I have a Company of Terminators and nearly 150 Genestealers. Hell, I don't even really care about the game - I have both editions of Space Hulk already, and a third one means little to me.

I just want those tiles...

I want it all Specially more stealers,and termis, and tiles...

BTW I'm yet to see a PPP miniature remotely interesting... R gambled all and lost, IMO.

Let's face it, are the models going to be that important?

If the terminators are chapter specific, then SM die-hards will just use their own squads anyway. I always used traitor terminator models from waaaaay back because they were cool and it was a chance to make a really decent looking squad.

And as for stealers...are they going to redesign them to be different from the current ones? Presumably they'll have to...

The tile system works well in Mighty Empires so would it be something similar, just with corridor and room-type pieces?

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Green - You base your comment on? I'm not saying that you're wrong or even that I don't believe you, I'd just like a little more than a statement with nothing to back it up.

Well, he is following a trend no?

Asmodai wrote:The games that do feature PPP (e.g. Tannhauser) rely on that as a gimmick. They're a tiny minority really.

I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you here, but mostly because HCrealms(42k) has only 11k less users than Warseer(53k). Once you start factoring in that a large amount of WM/H players also play Monsterpocalypse, I would say PPP games are just as popular(if not actually more so) as non-PPP games.

just use the genestealers and gaunts as warriors

Platuan4th wrote:

Asmodai wrote:The games that do feature PPP (e.g. Tannhauser) rely on that as a gimmick. They're a tiny minority really.

I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you here, but mostly because HCrealms(42k) has only 11k less users than Warseer(53k). Once you start factoring in that a large amount of WM/H players also play Monsterpocalypse, I would say PPP games are just as popular(if not actually more so) as non-PPP games.

Boardgames? probably but wargames? hell, no way mate

NAVARRO wrote:Boardgames? probably but wargames? hell, no way mate

I wouldn't class something using a map(including B5, Battletech, and anything else that has ever used a grid/hex map system) as necessarily a board game(I usually think RISK, Axis and Allies, and Monopoly for this), but YMMV.

Platuan4th wrote:

Asmodai wrote:The games that do feature PPP (e.g. Tannhauser) rely on that as a gimmick. They're a tiny minority really.

I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you here, but mostly because HCrealms(42k) has only 11k less users than Warseer(53k). Once you start factoring in that a large amount of WM/H players also play Monsterpocalypse, I would say PPP games are just as popular(if not actually more so) as non-PPP games.

I was comparing to BoardGameGeek: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/

I can't find any specific usage stats, but it's huge.

New rumours from BoardGameGeek!
Last post on the bottom of the page

baba44713 wrote:
I have actually seen the prototype of the new version. They are testing it out here because it's a niche market and they hope the information wouldn't leak.. well, too bad they ran into a BGG'er.

Anyway, the new version involves the following:

Plastic hallway pieces that stand on small legs so you can reach underneath with magnet sticks (explained beneath).

Each miniature has a small magnet on its base. Addionally, genestealers are fitted with a small battery which makes them move their arms

To reinforce the "realistic experience" (as stated in the manual), you are not allowed to touch the pieces directly but have to use magnetic sticks which you stick under the boards and use them to move the figures "remotely". This sounds ridicilous but actually works just fine. GW stated that if this catches on, they think about including "magnet sticks" in the Warhammer series.

SH has a new ruleset that does away with those pesky " 4 action points" and "command points" and uses a much more elegant system: you throw a little 6-sided cube with numbers 1 to 6 on it; the number you see on the top when it stops rolling is the number of "action points" you have on the turn. Genious!

Anyway I would post some pics but I don't want to breach the signed "prototype test" contract too much.

Cheers!

I have to agree that the 6 sided cube is a stroke of genius.



I really couldnt stop laughing while reading it. "magnetic sticks" & "moving arms" indeed.

two_heads_talking wrote:Well, he is following a trend no?

Was that directed at me, or are you just trying to be cute?

Hellfury wrote:I really couldnt stop laughing while reading it. "magnetic sticks" & "moving arms" indeed.

That is easily the dumbest idea I've ever heard. If GW really does this... wait one...

*underling whispers to HBMC that it's Apirl 1st*

... oh... uhh... I mean I knew that. Totally. *ahem*

ENOUGH APRIL 1ST CRAP ALREADY!

My initial thoughts on that where:
"How much would that cost?"

Does it have to be Loyalist Termies and Genestealers?

They should put other races into the game too. Orks and Chaos Marines can usually be found in Space Hulks as well.

Stealers and Termies are the classic. Space Hulk wouldn't be Space Hulk without them.

They may well include rules for other races, either in the book, or online. Who can tell at this stage?

At the very least, we'll have to wait until tomorrow.

I would like to put forth that if GW decided to remake the entire Space Marine line as true scale plastic models, I would rebuy my entire army, and then some.

I was kind of half hoping that the most recent 'dex would usher in true scale kits since nearly the entire line was already plastic. No such luck there, but if Space Hulk had bigger termies (which it won't) I would certainly buy a pile.

On a related note, if some of that idle Chinese capacity wanted to start kicking out cheap, prepainted, modular building tiles and sets, I would be down for that. Prepainted buildings are far less offensive to me than prepainted soldiers. I hate painting buildings, and really the quality for buildings doesn't have to be as sharp as it does for little men anyway.

I am going to make a fortune selling "New Space Hulk Magnet Sticks" on Ebay - a FORTUNE!!!!

Platuan4th wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:Boardgames? probably but wargames? hell, no way mate

I wouldn't class something using a map(including B5, Battletech, and anything else that has ever used a grid/hex map system) as necessarily a board game(I usually think RISK, Axis and Allies, and Monopoly for this), but YMMV.

If it uses a board (or map) to play on it's generally a board game.

If the map has spaces for movement delineated on it (such as in games where pieces move) then it's definitely a board game.

Wargames as a genre of "games" includes both board games and tabletop miniatures.

I play both. I even have some collectible miniatures games [which are board games] too.

I wouldn't mind paying upwards of $100 for this. Most of Fantasy Flight Games stuff has an MSRP nearing that range. So long as GW makes the product worth the price i'll get it. If it's not worth it, i'll just purchase it from an online deep discounter

Avalon Hill type games are what I call board wargames, to distinguish them from games like Monopoly.

Kilkrazy wrote:Avalon Hill type games are what I call board wargames, to distinguish them from games like Monopoly.

Yes, but the real Avalon Hill has been defunct for at least a decade. Now you're looking at producers such as MMP, GMT, Avalanche Press, etc

Wehrkind: I have to agree with you regarding some of the prepainted buildings VS prepainted mini's There is a company out there that sells pre-painted terrain it is a German Co. but I can't think of the name right now I'll have to get back with you on that, but they have really nice prepainted terrain that is very reasonable in price.

As far as board Games, I have a few classics out there myself. Warhammer Quest, Hero Quest, Advanced Hero,Quest, Battle Masters, and now Descent which is a really nice adventure board game...

Greenlight: Definitely let me know if you think of it! I wouldn't mind grabbing some more city bits to pack the table with!

Wehrkind wrote:Greenlight: Definitely let me know if you think of it! I wouldn't mind grabbing some more city bits to pack the table with!

Same here!

Please find that name, if you can...

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:Does it have to be Loyalist Termies and Genestealers?

They should put other races into the game too. Orks and Chaos Marines can usually be found in Space Hulks as well.

I think it is fairly certain that the game will feature Termies vs Genes, it's the classic matchup and people like seeing it


However, i really hope they include rules for other races. I would *love* to see some Guardsmen fighting off Genes or even Orks

Guardsmen versus the evil bitey aliens would be something more appealing to the broader audience, as you have the kind of protagonist the non-initiated can relate to.

Only downside: lasguns aren't as cool as brass-ejecting machine guns.

BoxANT wrote:

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:Does it have to be Loyalist Termies and Genestealers?

They should put other races into the game too. Orks and Chaos Marines can usually be found in Space Hulks as well.

I think it is fairly certain that the game will feature Termies vs Genes, it's the classic matchup and people like seeing it


However, i really hope they include rules for other races. I would *love* to see some Guardsmen fighting off Genes or even Orks

Well I'm not saying it shouldn't be Termies and Genesneakers, I meant to ask if it has to be just those two.

Lol, why not add to the fun by throwing a Commissar in there too?

-

Greenlight1107 wrote:Wehrkind: I have to agree with you regarding some of the prepainted buildings VS prepainted mini's There is a company out there that sells pre-painted terrain it is a German Co. but I can't think of the name right now I'll have to get back with you on that, but they have really nice prepainted terrain that is very reasonable in price.

Is it ESLO you are thinking of Greenlight?

http://www.gelaendestuecke.de/startnave.htm

BrookM wrote:
Only downside: lasguns aren't as cool as brass-ejecting machine guns.

Says you!

Personally, I think lasguns are the cow's tits!

I'm with BrookM on this one- i'm all about the dakkadakka, not so much the pewpew.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

two_heads_talking wrote:Well, he is following a trend no?

Was that directed at me, or are you just trying to be cute?

sorry, I forgot about t his thread.. It was a comment about Green following a trend of stating things and not backing them up..

so, not directed at you, but in regards to what you said, and yes, I was trying to be cute..

BoxANT wrote:

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:Does it have to be Loyalist Termies and Genestealers?

They should put other races into the game too. Orks and Chaos Marines can usually be found in Space Hulks as well.

I think it is fairly certain that the game will feature Termies vs Genes, it's the classic matchup and people like seeing it


However, i really hope they include rules for other races. I would *love* to see some Guardsmen fighting off Genes or even Orks

I think t most realistic hope is just that the game rules have enough 'design space' that Guard, Cultists, Daemons, whatever can be added without requiring the system be completely reworked. Essentially, hopefully the designers keep in mind that Geneswipers* and Terminators are essentially 'apex predators' of the setting and there's a lot of room below them to potentially explore.

*Everyone seems to be having fun with 'Genestealer' in the thread, so I thought I'd join the fun.

Balance wrote:I think t most realistic hope is just that the game rules have enough 'design space' that Guard, Cultists, Daemons, whatever can be added without requiring the system be completely reworked.

Seconded!

If GW can just use # points of Elites, that would be awesome.

Lets also hope it has the flexibility to allow variant chapters, its been a looong time since my wolves set foot on a hulk and we're dead keen.

I agree. How well GW continues to support this edition after its release hinges on a good number of people playing it. That requires variation to the game to drive continued interest, which requires more than two factions for player to trade off between.

I have to say I disagree.

The game ought to be a tight, fast-playing, standalone wargame in a box, not just an expansion for 40K.

Tight and fast-playing limits the possibilities for adding extra troops IMO. In the original rules, it was easy to see how to add ordinary SMs.

The key is make enough wiggle room in the core rules which allow other options.

For example, the original had 2D6, roll of a 6 takes out the bad guy... you down grade that for normal marines to rolling a single D6... Same rule, same mechanic but with wiggle room...

Not however so clear how you'd create so much wiggle room you can fit both Terminators and guardsmen in the same smooth simple system without adding complexity.

Then again, if you want to put ANYTHING in there, just use the forgeworld rules from The Anphelion Project.

aka_mythos wrote:That requires variation to the game to drive continued interest, which requires more than two factions for player to trade off between

'Required' eh?

I guess the twenty years of a faithful fan base is not relevant to whats 'required'.

The more I see people wishlisting about "I want orks and I want chaos and I not only want space marines, but I want my own little special rules for my special variant chapter" the more I hope GW just releases just the base game (termies and stealers) and calls it good.

They can never hope to make the spoiled 40K fanbase happy with anything other than 40K scaled down to the size of Space Hulk.
If people want the full range and depth of 40K in their space hulk games, then either make house rules....or just fething play 40K for crying out loud.

The game is a standalone game. It MAY have expansions in the future, but I honestly beleive that GW are trying to bring in more people with this game outside of their current consumer base. It is not aiming it particularly at the 40K fanbase (though they realize there is great interest from that sector) but they are aiming it towards a boardgamer demographic, who frankly far outnumber miniature wargamers by a huge margin if the anecdotal evidence of 20+ years is to be believed.

GW saw how well their expansion rules beyond the genestealer expansion was received (i.e. not well at all), and it is clear that most people who play boardgames want balanced rules first, and nifty little expansions later.

From a boardgamers point of view, if the games rules suck, then it will very quickly die.
Ever wonder why GW made a second edition of space hulk? Think back to the time of silly rules such as eldar just thrown on the board willy nilly with no concern for balance (just put whatever you want on the board. Viola!), and tons of special rules. Harlequins were an even worse example.

1st ed space hulk and its expansion deathwing won years best science fiction board game at Origins two years in a row. When they threw out elegant rules in favor of making a quick buck the public quickly agreed with origins and other gaming institutions that the further expansions were novel ideas at best, but quite poorly implemented.

Honestly, do YOU (the figurative and anonymous 'you') beleive that GW has the ability to balance space hulk (an already delicate balance between merely two types of models) using every known race in the 41st millenium incorporated into the game?
Before you answer, seriously think about how all the nuances of play would be affected and their interactions with each other race for a moment (this should be an easy exercise for people who actually know the rules and play with any frequency). Think about how the majority of these game design veterans who have been with the company for 20+ years still cannot write a competent rule set to save their company's failing reputation from being known as a 'ball dropper'.
If you answer yes, then I sincerely beleive that you are naive beyond rational thought.
If you answer maybe then I can agree there is that slight possibility, no matter how intrinsically improbable it may be.
If you answer no then you are probably right.

I believe "Some" options can be built in (as you point out the Genestealer expansion worked nicely!) but to allow for everything... nope, never going to happen...

But then again, if you already have the army, and a nice spanky new board... you can jusyt play 40K in Tunnels! ;-)

Hellfury wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:That requires variation to the game to drive continued interest, which requires more than two factions for player to trade off between

'Required' eh?

I guess the twenty years of a faithful fan base is not relevant to whats 'required'.

I apologize for not making it clearer. Despite my previous post being only 2 sentences it was in fact one idea:

That if GW wants more than just the current fans of the game to pick it up and continue playing it beyond a year, there has to be more to the game.

Those variations don't have to come in the box, they can be WD articles or expansions. The originally space hulk only had genestealers and terminators, then they added chaos terminators, Imperial Guard, power armored marines and a number of other extra rules. They didn't do all that perfectly or balanced, but they tried.

I am one of the fans who's owned the game for 20 years. I have multiple copies of both editions. I'm not saying it should be an expansion of 40k, just that by virtue of being set in the rich 40k universe it needs to keep that in mind.

Hellfury wrote:
The more I see people wishlisting about "I want orks and I want chaos and I not only want space marines, but I want my own little special rules for my special variant chapter" the more I hope GW just releases just the base game (termies and stealers) and calls it good.

They can never hope to make the spoiled 40K fanbase happy with anything other than 40K scaled down to the size of Space Hulk.
If people want the full range and depth of 40K in their space hulk games, then either make house rules....or just fething play 40K for crying out loud.

I don't want to see that either. I want to see a core set that is just Terminators and Genestealers but after thats done 5 months out when a good number of people start putting the game away after having played it every night since they got it, after playing every mission as Nids and as Marines, it'd be nice if GW releases a solid expansion or a nice article or two with additional missions or factions. The simple fact is if we want any hope of continuing support of Space Hulk by GW we have to see a larger fan base for the game.

Hellfury wrote:The game is a standalone game. It MAY have expansions in the future, but I honestly beleive that GW are trying to bring in more people with this game outside of their current consumer base. It is not aiming it particularly at the 40K fanbase (though they realize there is great interest from that sector) but they are aiming it towards a boardgamer demographic, who frankly far outnumber miniature wargamers by a huge margin if the anecdotal evidence of 20+ years is to be believed.

Yep, Space Hulks what got me into 40k... one boxed game lead to GW getting well over $10,000 from me over the course of close to 20 years. To me I think its a smart move by GW.

Hellfury wrote:GW saw how well their expansion rules beyond the genestealer expansion was received (i.e. not well at all), and it is clear that most people who play boardgames want balanced rules first, and nifty little expansions later.

I think GW has done a decent job of correcting past mistakes, I think they'll try this time around and come out with something thats better.

Hellfury wrote:Honestly, do YOU (the figurative and anonymous 'you') beleive that GW has the ability to balance space hulk (an already delicate balance between merely two types of models) using every known race in the 41st millenium incorporated into the game?
Before you answer, seriously think about how all the nuances of play would be affected and their interactions with each other race for a moment (this should be an easy exercise for people who actually know the rules and play with any frequency). Think about how the majority of these game design veterans who have been with the company for 20+ years still cannot write a competent rule set to save their company's failing reputation from being known as a 'ball dropper'.

I believe GW can write better rules now, whether they can achieve your ideals as far being good enough to do an expansion I can't answer that. The balancing factor in 40k is point costs. Rules can be whatever they want and as long as the points are fair, the rules themselves don't necessarily have to. Space Hulk never had a comprehensive point system because it was created only around 2 units, but if GW knows it will do expansions it can build in a balancing system, which doesn't necessarily mean points. It could be as simple as making each expansion two different factions squaring off against each other, with no intention of cross over between core game and expansions.

I think the most important thing is that the game is fun.

Actually he pointed out that the Genestealer expansion didn't work. Space Hulk worked - they even won an award. Deathwing worked - they won the same award again.

From Genestealer though it was all downhill.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Actually he pointed out that the Genestealer expansion didn't work. Space Hulk worked - they even won an award. Deathwing worked - they won the same award again.

From Genestealer though it was all downhill.

And I said:

aka_mythos wrote:

Hellfury wrote:GW saw how well their expansion rules beyond the genestealer expansion was received (i.e. not well at all), and it is clear that most people who play boardgames want balanced rules first, and nifty little expansions later.

I think GW has done a decent job of correcting past mistakes, I think they'll try this time around and come out with something thats better.

I think one of the main problems was that when the original game came out they had little conception of an expansion and thus trying to make an expansion was made extra difficult. Deathwing if I recall was written for the original game but was cut out to keep the size down, which was why it worked; Genestealer was more of an attempt to follow it up.

Sorry, I was replying to Druidic.

My mistake, got them in the wrong order myself! Forgot Genestealer was the odd one at the end rather then the first expansion (which oddly enough I got to play BEFORE it came out and even got a rules clarrification put into the final game.... ah the good old days....)

I personally think SH would work with certain armies crossed over, but would work BEST as a core game with few armies and a set of 40k rules which use the same board (ala Planet Strike or City Fight) and your existing figures again boosting SH sales, army sales (with people "tweeking" things to suit boarding actions) and would only need to be a GW website or White Dwarf article....

That is of course unless they have already thought ahead and built something for tunnel fighting into Planet strike..... which will guarantee SH sales..... hmm, wouldn't that be a good idea....

D

Or you could just use Anphelion.... as commented before.

(Slightly off-topic)Personally I'd like to run my Tau stealthsuits through a Hulk game.
For the Eldar it could be either Striking scorps or Warpspiders.
Units from other armies:
IG-Vets or storms
Necrons-Wraithes or Tomb spyders
Orks-Lootas
Tyranids-Warriors or 'stealers
SM-Termies or a scout squad
Sisters-Celestian squad
Greyknights-Terminators


My Thought is that the game should be about one Army type sending a scouts to check a hulk that is either also being scouted or is infested by another another races scouts. Or that the alien presence is confirmed and it is a mission to purge the ship of the scouts/looters/infestation/traitors.

Writing a board game from the point of 1 or 2 units from eight different factions and with 2 initial mission types like this should be feasible.

The two missions:
Recon-Get in, investigate for specific time until transport returns, then get out.

Seek and destroy- What it says. It's an annihalation mission to Purge the Hulk of alien infestation before salvage attempts are to be made.



(On-topic) Any update on a release schedule or what the game will actually consist of?


edit for Topics

Hellfury wrote:Honestly, do YOU beleive that GW has the ability to balance space hulk using every known race in the 41st millenium incorporated into the game?

Think about how the majority of these game design veterans who have been with the company for 20+ years still cannot write a competent rule set

Hell, yes, I do. I don't think that Space Hulk can or should have perfect "balance", nor do I believe that it ever had perfect balance before. It was a good little game, and that's all it needs to be. The basic scenarios can be balanced for the forces included in the box, kind of like BfM / BfSP / AoBR. The rest can be the generalized skirmish rules that support small-scale gaming up to 500 pts, below the FOC.

You mean, like the rulesets for Epic 40k / BFG / Warmaster / LotR / WotR and every other well-designed game that GW has created that didn't have the stinking albatross of the WFB legacy hanging around its neck? Or is this just another naive rant that makes a mountain of imbalance out of the tiny molehill that exists in 5E, primarily tied to legacy Codices? Because, as pretty much anybody recognizes, the 40k5 ruleset is actually *very* competent, particularly in relation to anything which came before. And balance-wise, in 40k, it's not like you have Codex matchups that are practically an auto-win/loss like on the Fantasy side of the house (e.g. Vampires / Daemons vs Ogres / Beasts).

aka_mythos wrote:
I apologize for not making it clearer. Despite my previous post being only 2 sentences it was in fact one idea:

That if GW wants more than just the current fans of the game to pick it up and continue playing it beyond a year, there has to be more to the game.

No, it was quite clear. Contrary to what many think, there doesn't have to be 'more to the game' to make it a success past its initial release.
Amazing how that game has lived on merely the merits for the rule of two single models for so long.

It is Space Hulk.
For those of you that want to play 40k it is down the hall, take a left when you see the Jervis Johnson statue and enter through the door that reads "broken and busted since forever".

It is perfectly serviceable on its present (past) merits without everyone who plays 40K wanting to add niggling rules to a surprisingly good (for GW) system. Just because it happens to share some icons and background of 40K doesn't make this a 40K game in the sense we all know of today. Its amazing how hard it seems for people to wrap their heads around the idea that this is a board game, not 40K.

It is the reason why the Genestealer expansion failed. Not because they were bad rules in and of themselves, but it eliminated how simple the game once was which was its main point of playing in the first place. Incredibly easy to learn, not so easy to master.

K.I.S.S. shall be the whole of the law.

Hmm, I'd love to run the Space Hulk gauntlet with a squad of penal legionnaries.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Hellfury wrote:Honestly, do YOU beleive that GW has the ability to balance space hulk using every known race in the 41st millenium incorporated into the game? Think about how the majority of these game design veterans who have been with the company for 20+ years still cannot write a competent rule set

Hell, yes, I do. I don't think that Space Hulk can or should have perfect "balance", nor do I believe that it ever had perfect balance before. It was a good little game, and that's all it needs to be. The basic scenarios can be balanced for the forces included in the box, kind of like BfM / BfSP / AoBR. The rest can be the generalized skirmish rules that support small-scale gaming up to 500 pts, below the FOC.

Ahh you want 40K.
Down the hall, take a left when you see the Jervis Johnson statue and enter through the door that reads "broken and busted since forever".

JohnHwangDD wrote:Because, as pretty much anybody recognizes, the 40k5 ruleset is actually *very* competent, particularly in relation to anything which came before.

I do not subscribe to your version of "competent". You can keep it. Gold plating a turd makes it better than a non gold plated turd. But...it is still a turd.

As for Epic 40k / BFG / Warmaster / LotR / WotR. I do agree those are good games but this is basically turns into a debate of subjective tastes so I will leave it at that instead of this devolving into another thread of "who's opinions are more 'right' today".

BrookM wrote:Hmm, I'd love to run the Space Hulk gauntlet with a squad of penal legionnaries.

Whats to stop you from using the models?
Nothing wrong with proxying far more appropriate models to play the game. (aliens versus colonial marines, whatever you want to play)
Really dumb to mess with the core mechanics and insist new rules be accommodated for everything already present in 40K.

( "Why does my tau stealth suit have to only have 4 action points? I have frickking jump jets I should be able to fly all over the space hulk and shoot bugs and then jump back around the corner before they can touch me" ) Its so predictable it really isn't funny.

Sure it can be argues that a few wouldn't hurt, then you have the butt hurt babies crying about how their kroot aren't allowed to play, or that their space marine scouts were left in the dust. 40K players will absolutely never be happy until it gets turned into 40K in space hulk.

Hellfury wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Hellfury wrote:Honestly, do YOU beleive that GW has the ability to balance space hulk using every known race in the 41st millenium incorporated into the game? Think about how the majority of these game design veterans who have been with the company for 20+ years still cannot write a competent rule set

Hell, yes, I do. I don't think that Space Hulk can or should have perfect "balance", nor do I believe that it ever had perfect balance before. It was a good little game, and that's all it needs to be. The basic scenarios can be balanced for the forces included in the box, kind of like BfM / BfSP / AoBR. The rest can be the generalized skirmish rules that support small-scale gaming up to 500 pts, below the FOC.

Ahh you want 40K.

As for Epic 40k / BFG / Warmaster / LotR / WotR. I do agree those are good games but this is basically turns into a debate of subjective tastes so I will leave it at that instead of this devolving into another thread of "who's opinions are more 'right' today".

Nope, I see SH as 40k "lite", just Infantry, with the occasional Walker or MC for "boss" fights. Maybe a Transport if doing a mega-scenario. That isn't 40k at all. I think it'd be cool to have Imperial Guard Stormtroopers / Veterans as the boarding team. Or Eldar Aspects / Tau Pathfinders. I think it'd be cool to go against Orks or Necrons. I don't think that expanding the SH options to leverage the 40k5 rules engine or the current point-build system is inherently wrong, nor would it necessarily spell the death of simplicity.

If those are agreed to be good games by the same design crew, then it's not the designer, but the legacy that they have to carry. GW does good work from a clean sheet.

JohnHwangDD wrote:GW does good work from a clean sheet.

Totally and emphatically agree.

What they are not good at is taking a good ruleset, and tweaking it for the purpose of sales which is solely what genestealer and all other attempts at adding other races to space hulk were.

It is a standalone boardgame, not 40K lite.

40K lite is killteam/combat patrol. Those rules are already present. To release space hulk under those auspices isn't going to garner more sales from outside sources, only alienate them. Quite counter productive to GW wanting to make this a successful game past their current consumer base.

People who play boardgames will look at it and say "Why the hell am I playing this? This is just 40K. I want Space Hulk back". This is indeed anecdotal, but evidence can be seen on any forum dedicated to boardgames.

Hellfury wrote:What they are not good at is taking a good ruleset, and tweaking it for the purpose of sales which is solely what genestealer and all other attempts at adding other races to space hulk were.

40K lite is killteam/combat patrol.

To release space hulk under those auspices isn't going to garner more sales from outside sources, only alienate them. Quite counter productive to GW wanting to make this a successful game past their current consumer base.

Oh, no doubt GW has a tendency to screw stuff up, where simplicity and sense previously ruled - Second Edition 40k is plenty proof of that!

Does GW still support Kill Team / Combat Patrol? I though those ideas died.

The way I see GW, is they're doing Space Hulk because it's supposed to bring people into 40k. If the appeal were to be as a pure board game that didn't tie to 40k, then it'd be like Dark Heresy / Talisman and not by GW. I imagine GW will be using SH as a way to expand their current customer base, and the easiest way to do that is to merge the Kill Team concepts into SH.

John, no offense meant and in all due respect you completely miss the trees for the woods.

You are looking at this from the perspective of a 40K player who is trying to garner more 40K players.

Look at it from the perspective of a person who plays only boardgames and has not ever been in the land of dollies.

Would they be more likely to get into 40K like many of us did originally buy seeing cool models, neat background and wondering where else I might explore this avenue when playing space hulk?

Or

Make space hulk a 40K expansion and expect people to jump on board with 40K?

It really would work either way, but40k already has its gateway drug, and that is AoBR. How many more loss lead products to push people into 40K does GW need to produce?

It does a great disservice not only to space hulk by attempting what you suggest, but it also is not going to reach out to a demographic GW hasn't attempted to reel in for years. Boardgamers. Which is what space hulk is. A boardgame.

Warhammer quest would be just as much of a draw into WHFB as space hulk is to 40K without sticking dirty fingers all over it expecting it to be a direct reflection of its nearest counterpart.

The only commonality those two board games share with their nearest counterparts is background and models. Rules differ vastly from those counterparts and there is is no reason to make them mimic such contrary to numerous wishlisting by people who want yet another way to play 40K.

You want kill team/combat patrol? Play them. It doesn't matter if GW no longer supports them. They hardly ever did anyways. 3 or 4 WD articles, a few GW website rule tweaks and that was it.

You want Necromunda? Play it.

Not every game that vaguely resembles 40K has to be incorporated into the the wargame. Many people enjoy the boardgame because it DOESN'T lead into 40K. Crazy as this may sound, not everyone enjoys the august pleasure of 40K's 'competent' rules.

@Hellfury: QFT.

Space Hulk 2nd edition was a very early purchase of mine. I specifically bought it because it was a self-contained BOARDGAME, with a tengential connection to 40k. I loved the atmosphere it invoked and still love the game.

If GW made it 40k lite, and added anything other than the bare minimum (termies and stealers), I would not buy it. Period.

Space Hulk second edition then led to my interest in the larger 40k, and I bought my first 40k army: Chaos Marines.

Who, is saying to not make it self contained. You can make it self contained while adding variety.

IMHO,Adding such variety will only enhance the games appeal.

Have any of you wondered why GW abandoned the game for a while, or why they felt the need to tinker with it through expansions in the first place.

Companies and Corporations usually do such to revive the sales of a leading product after it starts to lose its popularity.

Why would it lose popularity? I don't know, maybe because it was a very 2-demensional game with limited factions. If you want only two factions and KISS then why aren't you playing chess?

How many of you would constantly play risk or Axis and Allies if you were limited to only heads up games.

Actually Axis and Allies is a good comparison. Not because of game mechanics but because of the concious choice to include five different factions from five different situations in the game. They could have made the game just Axis(One player) vs Allies(One player) but they chose to make the game with more variety.

Thats all I'm hoping for. At some point to not be forced to play Marine Vs Tyanid game but something with more to it.

If they can design the game more factions and variety while following KISS. Whats the problem?


Now rip into me for my Blasphemy.

I never said I wouldn't like the idea of lots of different units. It would be great to play different races.

My concern is that GW cannot make it as balanced as it originally was if they do.

It they do make different races incorporated into the game and it is as good if not better than the original, I would be the first in line to happily eat my words and play some awesome new space hulk games.

I am quite eager for GW to prove me wrong in fact.

A past bad track record isn't simply forgotten though. Hence my extreme skepticism.

Regardless, I have heard nothing about new races. The only real 'solid' rumours I have seen from two sources say that Space Hulk has:

10 terminators. All new sculpts. Each pose unique though perhaps only varying slightly.

Sculpted terrain bases. Libby descending a set of stairs is one example.

Card Tiles enlarged to accommodate 40mm bases.

No word on 'stealers.

Its the most I have heard about the game other than vagueries that it will return on top of what BOLS posted.

Card Tiles? I thought the printing costs on such things was so high as to make it financially unviable? I mean, the reason we lost everything card in GW's games was because of the costs - has that now changed in the UK?

Also I would hope that the Space Hulk boxed game would be contained within itself - Genestealers, Terminators and then maybe some rules for Terminator Librarians and Brood Lords for those who own them. But that's it - the boxed game is its own entity. Not 40K-Lite, not rules for other races, but a single entity that stands on its own.

Later on they can introduce other races, maybe one or two expansions, but don't fail horribly like the later expansions did. An Orky Hulk using the Black Lagoon Orks would be a good start - Ork themed board pieces and models. And then a Chaos one, and then leave it.

No need for anything else and I doubt that we'll be seeing Hybrids any time soon again, sadly.

@Hellfury-I understand your skepticism.

Sometimes dealing with GW you gotta hope for the best but prepare for the worst.


Any word on whether the card tiles are plastic or still going to be actual Card tiles. If they are the regular cards I may be buying a bunch of Plasti-card or equivalent to glue them to. Then I'll lamintate the faces.

My friends and I play a lot of our games,board and 40K, outside. Wind can be a nuisance.

two_heads_talking wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

two_heads_talking wrote:Well, he is following a trend no?

Was that directed at me, or are you just trying to be cute?

sorry, I forgot about t his thread.. It was a comment about Green following a trend of stating things and not backing them up..

so, not directed at you, but in regards to what you said, and yes, I was trying to be cute..

Hey dude why don't you give it a break for once? I am not going to reveal my source... That's your problem if it gets your panties all knotted up in a knicker. Typically I back up what I say, in this case I won't so stop with the slagging and go find someone else to troll.

G

H.B.M.C. wrote:Card Tiles? I thought the printing costs on such things was so high as to make it financially unviable? I mean, the reason we lost everything card in GW's games was because of the costs - has that now changed in the UK?

No clue. The jib jab I get is rather conflicting in this area. Half say card and swear by the gods they have seen the art. The other half is likewise convinced of plastic swearing that they have seen the CAD drawings. Not much past that is shared.

On the one hand, card tiles make perfect sense if they really do want to make this a standalone boardgame aimed at a broader audience. This makes it visually appealing to those types who do not hobby, only leaving the minis to be painted.

On the other hand, plastic tiles also make perfect sense as any profit from this can be nearly purely in house. The only print costs would be books and boxes. It appeals more to the core consumer demographic that GW has.

My opinion is that if any of the above is true the card tiles will be released in the box as standard. I also think GW will not let an opportunity pass by and that the rumored plastic tiles will also be made available. More than likely a direct order only affair for maximum profit shakedown.

There is also rumor that this is going to be a brief release, not meant for long term sales. Similar to what GW did when they re-released talisman a few years ago just to renew the copyright of the game or some such.

In short, I seriously doubt any and all rumors until we get closer to the end of the summer.

Hmmm, would not put it past them to do the board game with "Printed in China" card tiles, but release seperate plastic tiles. Thing is the tiles will got bought in DROVES for terrain!

If the figures are unpainted, why not unpainted tiles? Unless they are planning something mad like coloured figures (ie RED plastic terminators, PURPLE plastic Genestealers, GREY plastic tiles)

If they do a limited release, for copywrite, I'd expect nothing more then basic GS/Temi and nothing else! They just wont expend the money!

D

No offense perceived or taken, or intended in response.

After the whole Talisman thing, I just don't see GW getting back into boardgames, Space Hulk being a trenemdous property notwithstanding.

I mean, it'd be cool if GW decided to do a 10-year anniversary edition of Bommaz, or even a re-release of Dark Future / Dracula's Fury.

But GW has finally figured out that they're a vertically-integrated miniatures company, and acts accordingly, so SH2 should necessarily drive minis sales of some fashion, or I can't imagine GW green-lighting a one-shot for a small amount of money.

Druidic wrote:Hmmm, would not put it past them to do the board game with "Printed in China" card tiles, but release seperate plastic tiles. Thing is the tiles will got bought in DROVES for terrain!

If the figures are unpainted, why not unpainted tiles? Unless they are planning something mad like coloured figures (ie RED plastic terminators, PURPLE plastic Genestealers, GREY plastic tiles)

If they do a limited release, for copywrite, I'd expect nothing more then basic GS/Temi and nothing else! They just wont expend the money!

D

If the tiles are plastic they probably won't be painted, colored plastic I could see, but not pre-painted. Paper products aren't economical to print oversees unless you can sell them for a high enough mark up; like college text books. Shipping a hard cover book within a country can often out cost the book. The weight of shipping thick high density cardboard around the world a couple of time would be more. Having worked in China I can tell you how quickly it would add up. Those cost begin to quickly out weigh the cost of GW's in house capabilities of producing plastic. Even the largest sprue GW has probably only costs them $2-$3 in raw materials, so beyond the initial investment of tool design etc. their per piece cost is that. With a multi-colored printed paper product they would have to be shipped to packaging centers that single card tile quickly moves from being less than a dollar to almost the same. Also GW already has the infrastructure to do plastic, setting something up with china would require additional investments whether its sending someone over there to ensure quality control (cause they will try to rip you off if they can) or hiring an interpreter; those costs add up and create inertia that opposes something new. All that and it doesn't address legal issues, the Chinese might use the wrong ink and you end up with a product band in the EU or you have to recall cause their traces of lead or toxins; keeping it in house alleviates much of those concerns. I think if you look at the Warhammer movement trays sprues it gives you an idea of what to expect as far as sprue layout.

Plastic or paper, it'll be an expensive box set... it will end up having more in it than AoBR.
The cost is what brings to my next point... on the issue of terminator bases I think GW will give them the smaller basses, if for no other reason than it means they can make the tiles smaller. This set will already be pushing the price high so they will probably do their best to keep it down. The rough volume of plastic saved would save them ~$0.25 per sprue, in the neighborhood of $10 off the box.

I don't understand where the idea that the printed tiles would be too expensive. FFG, produces numerous board games with lots of printed tiles for around the $60-$80 price point. Take the Doom boardgame, arguably the closest analog to Space Hulk on the market right now. It comes with literally 3 pounds of cardboard tiles and they made the game affordable. surely GW can do the same.

My money is on a full-plastic set for $80.

"High end" boardgames like Descent or Battlelore get priced at that level. That gives GW enough markup to do large scale plastic sprues like the Baneblade in the box. I'd guess it'll be:
- Dedicated tile sprues (ie no other bitz on them). GW can release them as a standalone for 40k scenery or people who want to expand their SH sets. Bonus points if they're somehow compatible with cityfight building sprues to utilize as walls (but that's a gigantic longshot).
- A recut sprue with Terminators from AoBR and Genestealers from McCragge or somesuch variation
- A colored "game bitz" sprue with blips, jams, overwatch/flamer tokens, C.A.T.S., and whatever else

It's pretty much a perfect setup for them. It lets them keep their production in-house, leverages their existing plastics capabilities, and means every part of the set is able to be painted (more opportunity for selling paints).

As for rules, personally I think GW would be insane not to use the original ruleset - it's a well respected system, self-contained, and a great way to bring in non-wargamers in without overwhelming them. But at the end of the day, it's trivial to get ahold of the original rules, so if they decided to shoot themselves in the foot with kill-team rules I can keep them in the box.

rwwin wrote:I don't understand where the idea that the printed tiles would be too expensive. FFG, produces numerous board games with lots of printed tiles for around the $60-$80 price point. Take the Doom boardgame, arguably the closest analog to Space Hulk on the market right now. It comes with literally 3 pounds of cardboard tiles and they made the game affordable. surely GW can do the same.

Because GW hasn't done cardstock printing in... 15 years? The cost for them to setup a division to do so would be incredibly high and not worth the investment for 1 game. And GW has had a huge aversion to outsourcing their production for at least a decade. Expecting FFG to create a release something like a plastic Stompa would be just as silly to expect from them - they're a board game, not miniatures company. Yes they include minis in several games but you're nuts if you think they are anything close to GW quality.

crackbone wrote:Because GW hasn't done cardstock printing in... 15 years? The cost for them to setup a division to do so would be incredibly high and not worth the investment for 1 game. And GW has had a huge aversion to outsourcing their production for at least a decade. Expecting FFG to create a release something like a plastic Stompa would be just as silly to expect from them - they're a board game, not miniatures company. Yes they include minis in several games but you're nuts if you think they are anything close to GW quality.

OK, so where does GW get their card stock game boxes? True it's apples to oranges, different weights and printing, but if you can outsource one thing you can outsource another. And no I don't think the FFG figures are of comparable quality, simply that their dungeoncrawl style boardgames are the clostest thing on the market today to what it sounds like the new space hulk would be.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a box with a full plastic tiles, I just don't see it as radically cheaper than card stock or cardboard. Also, if they're going to go with plastic over print tiles, what are they going to do with all the various counters and tokens? Plastic too? That's a lot of sprues to jam into one box.

rwwin wrote:OK, so where does GW get their card stock game boxes?

High-density cardboard for actual cardstock is a world apart from the packaging they use. And GW's packaging has recently (and by recently I mean 'when the Baneblade came out) gotten much thinner. My baneblade boxes crush far more easily than my older boxes.

rwwin wrote:

crackbone wrote:Because GW hasn't done cardstock printing in... 15 years? The cost for them to setup a division to do so would be incredibly high and not worth the investment for 1 game. And GW has had a huge aversion to outsourcing their production for at least a decade. Expecting FFG to create a release something like a plastic Stompa would be just as silly to expect from them - they're a board game, not miniatures company. Yes they include minis in several games but you're nuts if you think they are anything close to GW quality.

OK, so where does GW get their card stock game boxes? True it's apples to oranges, different weights and printing, but if you can outsource one thing you can outsource another. And no I don't think the FFG figures are of comparable quality, simply that their dungeoncrawl style boardgames are the clostest thing on the market today to what it sounds like the new space hulk would be.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a box with a full plastic tiles, I just don't see it as radically cheaper than card stock or cardboard. Also, if they're going to go with plastic over print tiles, what are they going to do with all the various counters and tokens? Plastic too? That's a lot of sprues to jam into one box.

H.B.M.C. already pointed out "gaming" cardstock has little resemblance to box packaging. Especially when you start factoring in the cost of custom dies to cut out counters/tiles for ease of punching, the materials need to print/laminate cardstock vs. box packaging, etc.

You're right of course, there's a tremendous amount of plastic in one box for a new, all-plastic SH. But, really, is it more than what you get in a baneblade? Or even AoBR? 5 Termies/16 Genestealers is maybe a third of what's in AoBR box. 2mm plastic tiles/counters wouldn't be that much more material intenstive - the cost would largely be in the molds.

$80 for Space Hulk? Ouch.

I was thinking 40k-ified Mighty Empires:
- squared tiles instead of hexes
- some minis
- small rulebook
As it'd basically be a swap, the price point would be the same.

Yep, but same as the last thread we did on this, I thought your lower price estimates were hopeful in the extreme. My expectation is that it'll be a 'never mind the cost, feel the quality' type release. Bear in mind that Talisman, a purely cardstock boardgame, retails at £40 in the UK, and Space Hulk will have a similar level of brand name value attached.

Again, just in case it was missed, this is not a 40k gateway, so there's no loss leader logic in play.

Kilkrazy wrote:I have to say I disagree.

The game ought to be a tight, fast-playing, standalone wargame in a box, not just an expansion for 40K.

Tight and fast-playing limits the possibilities for adding extra troops IMO. In the original rules, it was easy to see how to add ordinary SMs.

Well said.

If they want to mess with the game add expansions. If the expansions suck, i'll just stick with the base game.

Space Hulk needs to be a boxed wargame, not a 40k expansion. As I said before there are many, many people who want to play Space Hulk but not 40K.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Card Tiles? I thought the printing costs on such things was so high as to make it financially unviable? I mean, the reason we lost everything card in GW's games was because of the costs - has that now changed in the UK?

Also I would hope that the Space Hulk boxed game would be contained within itself - Genestealers, Terminators and then maybe some rules for Terminator Librarians and Brood Lords for those who own them. But that's it - the boxed game is its own entity. Not 40K-Lite, not rules for other races, but a single entity that stands on its own.

Later on they can introduce other races, maybe one or two expansions, but don't fail horribly like the later expansions did. An Orky Hulk using the Black Lagoon Orks would be a good start - Ork themed board pieces and models. And then a Chaos one, and then leave it.

No need for anything else and I doubt that we'll be seeing Hybrids any time soon again, sadly.

I'd agree with most of that, but.....

You are correct in their ultimatley being limited takers for actual space bound adventures. But, as a sort of Kill Team in a Hive, or similar heavily corridored environ, I think we could see all the races taking part. Though I don't fancy the Tau's chance much to be perfectly honest!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Card Tiles? I thought the printing costs on such things was so high as to make it financially unviable? I mean, the reason we lost everything card in GW's games was because of the costs - has that now changed in the UK?

Also I would hope that the Space Hulk boxed game would be contained within itself - Genestealers, Terminators and then maybe some rules for Terminator Librarians and Brood Lords for those who own them. But that's it - the boxed game is its own entity. Not 40K-Lite, not rules for other races, but a single entity that stands on its own.

Later on they can introduce other races, maybe one or two expansions, but don't fail horribly like the later expansions did. An Orky Hulk using the Black Lagoon Orks would be a good start - Ork themed board pieces and models. And then a Chaos one, and then leave it.

No need for anything else and I doubt that we'll be seeing Hybrids any time soon again, sadly.

I'd agree with most of that, but.....

You are correct in their ultimatley being limited takers for actual space bound adventures. But, as a sort of Kill Team in a Hive, or similar heavily corridored environ, I think we could see all the races taking part. Though I don't fancy the Tau's chance much to be perfectly honest!

Being able to move from cover, shoot, and then move back behind cover is pretty awesome in spaceship corridors - which tend to be long, narrow kill-zones otherwise.

I'm buying the game for the Dark Heresy uses for the tiles alone.

Personally, I'd like to see an expansion covering combat on a ship. Pretty much SH, really, but GW could do it, package it with one of those little rulebooks and a slew of new models and plastic terrain (as the cardstock tiles would absolutely suck badly)and say 'look kids! Space Hulk!!!' And it would sell like crack in the hood.
Or hot new figs to us junkies.
Really though, its one area GW hasn't covered. I think it would combine potential environmental hazards (cuz spehss muhreenz wouldn't hesitate to open up with plasma and melta shots in a pressurised ship in deep space) with the close range fury of CoD.
Or maybe I'm simply a slowed grot. Its entirely possible.
Either way, ill shell out the $$ simply because, odds are, it'll be freakin sweet.

Personally, I'd like to see an expansion covering combat on a ship. Pretty much SH, really, but GW could do it, package it with one of those little rulebooks and a slew of new models and plastic terrain (as the cardstock tiles would absolutely suck badly)and say 'look kids! Space Hulk!!!' And it would sell like crack in the hood.
Or hot new figs to us junkies.
Really though, its one area GW hasn't covered. I think it would combine potential environmental hazards (cuz spehss muhreenz wouldn't hesitate to open up with plasma and melta shots in a pressurised ship in deep space) with the close range fury of CoD.
Or maybe I'm simply a slowed grot. Its entirely possible.
Either way, ill shell out the $$ simply because, odds are, it'll be freakin sweet.

Wow there is alot of stuff to read through on this! I agree we will most likely see the $80 box set price. And why not, as no one seems to be baulking at BaneBlades and Stompas!

I bet they dont have any problem selling this game, paper or plastic tiles. Reguardless of the current economic issues facing us I think people will do as they always have during these type of times and buy distraction stuff! What I would not mind seeing is Chapter spacific Termi in the box and then Limited ( later to be kept along if they sell well *wink*wink* ) box set of other chapter spacific Termi squads. If these sell well, keep em if not ditch em. If they attach them to Space Hulk they can easly deep six them if they dont do well. Add on packs of plastic tiles to expand you Hulk etc, all this could easily be done. Cost prohibitive? Well who knows but They could do it to good effect I think. They have done all this in the past on a rotaional basis, no reason they could not give it another go!

As for rules? An expansion to the main game containing "boarding actions" for all races/unit types. I mean who dosnt want to see some Guard running into the nids?! Tau board hulks too right? I would think the more you offer your target audience to use stuff they already bought from you the more box/books you would sell. I mean if I was a strict Tau player who had no real interest in Marines or Nids but thought the setting was cool I would be alot more interested in buying a box set/rules set that allowed me to use my Tau in the setting.

I hope they do re-release an updated version of this game.

yeah,
We could be missing a trick here. maybe GW did a deal with FFG...

FFG has the infrastructure to make card games.
GW has the Cool IP sitting around doing nothing.
maybe they traded skills and time. FFG get to do Talisman in trade for Space Hulk Printing Support.

Just an Idea?

PAnic...

JohnHwangDD wrote:$80 for Space Hulk? Ouch.

I was thinking 40k-ified Mighty Empires:
- squared tiles instead of hexes
- some minis
- small rulebook
As it'd basically be a swap, the price point would be the same.

Ouch? When it was released in it's second edition it was 69.99.. and that was what 10 years ago? A 10 dollar increase in 10 years, that's not much at all.. I'm actually ok with that price, if it has similar contents to what it had then..

Green Blow Fly wrote:
Hey dude why don't you give it a break for once? I am not going to reveal my source... That's your problem if it gets your panties all knotted up in a knicker. Typically I back up what I say, in this case I won't so stop with the slagging and go find someone else to troll.

G

My point is as valid now as it was when I said it.. If that gets your knickers in a twist I don't really care. and again, my point was show the proof, otherwise, it's just smoke..

@ Panic - Yeah, but then GW has to play interesting IP games with local law. If it dilutes their IP in any way (see also: Damnatus fan film) GW won't risk it. Better to keep it in house.

IMHO there's two ways they can go with this -
Off scaled stand alone game: Lots of new dies to cut for this, but GW has the facilities to do this. As a gateway to their product, they ensure buying a whole new array of products moving into a new game.

On scale gateway game:
Reduced profit on Terminators and Stealers boxes, but dies keep in production for longer (reduces profit per print, raises profit over lifetime of the die). 40+mm scale tiles used as gateway for hobbyists into Cities of Death product and spur to Apocalypse/Planetfall related sales.

Both drive more sales, but the second is a more long term (6+year) plan, out of character for GW's 2006-8 financial statements...but a solid sell to investors. But if I had about 2m USD, I could ask them better questions and claim 'Due Diligence' on investments.

Anyone want to donate to the 'Due Diligence' fund?

two_heads_talking wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:$80 for Space Hulk? Ouch.

I was thinking 40k-ified Mighty Empires:
- squared tiles instead of hexes
- some minis
- small rulebook
As it'd basically be a swap, the price point would be the same.

Ouch? When it was released in it's second edition it was 69.99.. and that was what 10 years ago? A 10 dollar increase in 10 years, that's not much at all.. I'm actually ok with that price, if it has similar contents to what it had then..

Yeah, but I'm looking for a $20 decrease like AoBR and BfSP.

Besides, it's not like GW won't sell bunches just for the extra tiles if the price is right and they throw in a few "large map" scenarios...

Just sell a minimalist product that encourages players to buy more boxes.