I don't like the other thread and people keep asking about what is in both boxed sets, so here we go, with pictures! RIPPED FROM THE GW SITE.





Oh and the advisors and commissar lord are also on-line for pre-order now.





Battleforces are £53.85, advisors are £9.80 and the commissar is £7.85

thanks mac

battleforces are up to £53.85 now? :(


the catachan one could be a good start for a no tank army.
3 box's should make a pretty decent start to an army


just a random note here, but some of the catachan on the right have straps on thier lasguns, the old set never had those did it?

This looks a decent battleforce.

But does anyone still buy catachans since cadians were released? I can't remember seeing anyone use them in the last 2 or 3 years.

Seeing pictures sure makes the Battleforces look sparce. Compared to the Space Marines BF at least.

Gonna have to get the Advisors.

Something about the ComLord looks funny, legs are kinda static compared to the upper body. Could jsut be the angle of the pic I guess. I do like the details on him tho

nice timing on that post gonads
im thinking about it since i hate the cadian models (awaits abuse for that comment)

it was either catachan, DKOK or vostroyan, im going for the cheaper option

JD21290 wrote:thanks mac

battleforces are up to £53.85 now? :(


the catachan one could be a good start for a no tank army.
3 box's should make a pretty decent start to an army


just a random note here, but some of the catachan on the right have straps on thier lasguns, the old set never had those did it?

Yes, the Catachan kit comes with several lasguns with straps. It always has.

thanks mac, ive never seen it before and ive brought a few box's in the past.
guess im still hoping for a new sprue or 2 to give them a better option than just a flamer :(

JD21290 wrote:
just a random note here, but some of the catachan on the right have straps on thier lasguns, the old set never had those did it?

Cats had straps on a couple rifles, but I think it was on the loose rifles.

So, we get a Command Squad and a Sentinel in place of a Leman Russ?

Well technically you gain as the Command Squad and new Sentinel cost 15 each while a Russ costs 25.

I would prefer the Russ though.

Boy do I wish I could pre-order(damn should not have spent all cash for the month)but one thing bothers me,it doesn't look like the Catachan minis have changed much(the basic troops I mean.),but still I'm going to get the Catachans as everybody most often goes for the Cadians.

Yes, sadly GW have gone and bumped the Battleforces up by £/US$/Oz$5.00.

i still have an old SM BF floating about with a £40 sticker on it lol.

One thing thats also bothering me,is that a lascannon on the Catachan sentinel,I thought that that Catachans were not allowed to take lascannons?

Deff Dread red Edition wrote:One thing thats also bothering me,is that a lascannon on the Catachan sentinel,I thought that that Catachans were not allowed to take lascannons?

That's a multi-laser.

this will be the 1st time ive even thought about collecting a guard army
any bets on how long it will take before i get bored of painting skin and woodland DPM?

Just out of curiosity, don't advance orders usually ship early? I seem to remember Advance orders for the last couple army books/Codex's getting their books a few days early in the mail.

Or am I just high?

A week in advance at the earliest from what I remember. I know I got my Apocalypse book, bag and templates a week before the official release date.

JD21290 wrote:this will be the 1st time ive even thought about collecting a guard army
any bets on how long it will take before i get bored of painting skin and woodland DPM?

The arms on plastic catachans are as thick as their head ! Its not nicely sculpted either ,
i know they look ok painted by heavy metal team but... i think they are awful. '

They are so awful that i still havnt assembled mine

I think this confirms infantry teams will NOT get new special weapons or heavy weapons.

So yes, prices are going up $10 and we get NOTHING.

lol, i still like catachan no matter what anyone says
not too sure what it is about them, but theres alot more freedom than there is with cadian.
cadians are just basic rank and file infantry, too basic looking

GW wth!? 9.1% increase in price????

and oh yes, taking a large photograph with units spreaded out thinly
will not make buyers think its more than what it is.

Its like combing your 3 pieces of hair left on your bald head GW, you are only lying to yourself!!!!!



*Edit , any idea how long before the rest of the other battle force follow the same price increase?

of course luna
dont forget though, we get nothing extra for that increase.

Hm, nice to see a decent sized picture of the Astropath and company. I love that they stuck with the original fluff and remembered that Astropaths a) wear green and b) have burned holes where their eyes should be.

BrookM wrote:

I know it's mostly the paintjob, but look at the face on the Arty guy? That is a really well sculpted face.

I love these Advisors. Cannot wait to get them.

Her Majesty's Buxom Commissar wrote:Yes, sadly GW have gone and bumped the Battleforces up by £/US$/Oz$5.00.

One of the many reasons you never by local and always buy from overseas, especially from places that don't charge for shipping.

Is it only me, or does any else not like this battleforce? I think the big purpose of battleforces should be to get lots of basic troops. I would like to see the command squad dropped and get another 10 regular troopers. I'm not sure how the codex deals with heavy weapons in troops, but if they did that, you'd have 3 10 man squads, each with a hvy weapon with this box.

That might be one of their goals, but another is to give an interesting assortment of miniatures, and three infantry squads, three heavy weapon teams and a sentinel would be even more boring than what we have here.

Just wish they'd kept the Russ in. The new price isn't worth that...

Not that I'm getting any of these mind you, but still.

Yeah, if it had been command squad, Russ, Hvy wpns teams and couple squads, then it would have been worth it.
Right now, you save $25 Canadian, so it is actually cheaper to buy everything seperatley if you do not want a Sentenial. But, it showcases their new Plastics, and the armies GI's, so what can you expect?

But does anyone still buy catachans since cadians were released? I can't remember seeing anyone use them in the last 2 or 3 years.

REAL guardsmen players buy the entire DKoK line from FW.

Breotan wrote:

But does anyone still buy catachans since cadians were released? I can't remember seeing anyone use them in the last 2 or 3 years.

REAL guardsmen players buy the entire DKoK line from FW.

Or have so many painted metal figs that they don't need any more infantry, much less plastic stuff.

Polonius wrote:

Breotan wrote:

But does anyone still buy catachans since cadians were released? I can't remember seeing anyone use them in the last 2 or 3 years.

REAL guardsmen players buy the entire DKoK line from FW.

Or have so many painted metal figs that they don't need any more infantry, much less plastic stuff.

I agree, i think the metal catachans looks way better than the plastic ones.

I agree. Makes me glad I have a TON of the old metal Catachans. Sentinals with plasma cannon & missile launchers are very nice.

Anyone else notice the rumored "extra bits" that allowed one to build vets, conscripts, and stuff, that were supposed to be included in the Infantry boxes aren't there.
Also it seems that the catachan arms were not resculpted as we were told.

I never believed the arms were ever to be resculpted lol.
If that was the plan , they would have redone the whole plastic catachan line , they are awful. They just appeared thinner because of the better shading done by the heavy metal team.

John wrote:Is it only me, or does any else not like this battleforce? I think the big purpose of battleforces should be to get lots of basic troops. I would like to see the command squad dropped and get another 10 regular troopers. I'm not sure how the codex deals with heavy weapons in troops, but if they did that, you'd have 3 10 man squads, each with a hvy weapon with this box.

Most of the reliable rumors are saying that five heavy weapon teams can be added to a platoon now. So this can be a complete platoon. That being said, it does look really sparse and I know I won't be buying it.

I also have to agree that the Catachans are completely inferior in terms of quality to the Cadians. They do have a certain style to them though, but their poor sculpting, lack of detail and bad scaling has always kept me away from them. It's kind of disappointing that the heavy weapons teams and the command squad, which are much newer models, look just as bad...

Foda_Bett wrote:Anyone else notice the rumored "extra bits" that allowed one to build vets, conscripts, and stuff, that were supposed to be included in the Infantry boxes aren't there.
Also it seems that the catachan arms were not resculpted as we were told.

The so-called "extra bits" were never going to be included in the troops boxes. It was never categorically stated that there would be extra bits, just that you "could build" Veterans, Penal Legion, Conscripts, etc, from the set. It was just salespeak... and people wishinterpreted it.

Same too with the supposed re-scaling of the Catachans' arms. This was never going to happen and was probably spawned from someone seeing the new Catachan Command Squad sprue. All these things were refuted long ago, and finally put to rest at the UK Design Studio Open Day in February.

Battleforce is.....odd.

Very good for new comers to the army. 2 squads and their command, Heavy Weapons and a Sentinel. Two or three of them (especially given the flexibility of the new Sentinels in terms of weapon fit) and you have a decent starting block for your army.

Still not especially cheap though.

The Artillery Command bloke looks like Admiral Adama I think.

HMBC, what happened to your Avatar!!!

[vader]Noooooooo![/vader]

Ozymandias wrote:HMBC, what happened to your Avatar!!!

[vader]Noooooooo![/vader]

Dita has been replaced with a nazi

H.B.M.C. wrote:

I know it's mostly the paintjob, but look at the face on the Arty guy? That is a really well sculpted face.

I love these Advisors. Cannot wait to get them.

I thought the same thing, his face is really... well defined

All the advisors look great!

While GW's "new math" means these save money, those battleforces look awfully scrawny considering that SM get 15 SM, 5 Scouts, 5 Assault, & 1 Rhino.

Though you do get the added benefits of the Heavy Weapon Teams and their spare guns. Means the Command and Infantry units can each have a Missile Launcher or Mortar, or summat.

Given the context of the list, it's not that bad contents wise, just far from being the best (title of which I think the Ogre Kingdom one still holds?)

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Though you do get the added benefits of the Heavy Weapon Teams and their spare guns. Means the Command and Infantry units can each have a Missile Launcher or Mortar, or summat.

Given the context of the list, it's not that bad contents wise, just far from being the best (title of which I think the Ogre Kingdom one still holds?)

they can get the heavy weapons but only if they base them illegally... grumble, stupid HW stat and basing change, grumble...

The current IG Battleforce contains:
20 IG, 1 HWS, 1 Leman Russ + Ruins

So you trade the Leman Russ & Ruins for the Sentinel & Command. It's just a lot less impressive-looking.

The ruins have been left out for some time now.

warboss wrote:they can get the heavy weapons but only if they base them illegally... grumble, stupid HW stat and basing change, grumble...

FWIW, I'm giving GW the finger on this one.

I didn't rebase my Termies, and I'm not rebasing my IG Heavies to satisfy some pointless change.

Fortunately, I play casual games, so this isn't an issue. We're smart enough to deal with keeping Loader & Gunner as separate models on 25mm bases.

while keeping the Russ in the battleforce would make for a better deal they went with the new Sentinel because it's new. They love to push new models and I don't see it as being bad from a business/marketing standpoint. I think the Russ makes a lot more sense organizationally but they may not have wanted it in the battleforces so they can have a very big "get your NEW Leman Russ tanks NOW! NOW! NOW!" event some months down the road. That's just my guess, but it makes a certain kind of sense.

warboss wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Though you do get the added benefits of the Heavy Weapon Teams and their spare guns. Means the Command and Infantry units can each have a Missile Launcher or Mortar, or summat.

Given the context of the list, it's not that bad contents wise, just far from being the best (title of which I think the Ogre Kingdom one still holds?)

they can get the heavy weapons but only if they base them illegally... grumble, stupid HW stat and basing change, grumble...

Basing heavy weapons on those huge bases is horrible for the most part. I do it for my lascannons because there's not really a way of getting around it, but I still have the loader on his own base so I can just remove him rather than place a dice or counter.

If you check the picture below on the left tower you can see a steel legion hb team, on the right tower you can see a missile team. Whiche one looks less slowed in that situation?

I'm not upset at the lack of a Leman Russ.
They seem to never run out of Emperor's Fist Tank Detachments to sell, and that's a far better way to get Russes imo.

But all of the pieces in the battleforce can be used in a single platoon, or broken up into an HQ, Fast Attack, and a Troops choice.

I completely agree. The advisors are completely awesome.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrookM wrote:

I know it's mostly the paintjob, but look at the face on the Arty guy? That is a really well sculpted face.

I love these Advisors. Cannot wait to get them.

"REAL guardsmen players buy the entire DKoK line from FW. "

real rich players! i'm happy with my plastic Cadians. and i'd rather buy a couple of the command squads and what nots, than the new battleforce as it's laid out.

Well, you also have to take into account the way they are revising the troop boxes to 10 men (all prices in USD)

2 troop boxes 22.00 each
Cmd squad 25.00
heavy weapon squad 35.00
Sentinel 25.00

Total: 107.00 without tax

Pick up the current batttleforces while you can.

Your math is off:
$44 for 20 IG (@$22 for 10)
$25 Command
$35 Heavy
$25 Sentinel
= $129 new cost

But, as I noted above, that's using "GW math" with overpriced infantry.

You should calcualte it as:

$35 for 20 IG
$25 for Command
$35 for heavy
$25 for Sentinel
= 120 list

But the HWS should only be $25 and Command and the Sentinel only $20, so you'll be paying $95 for is only $100 worth of models - hardly worth the effort, and really pathetic on GW's part.

Why should the HWS be $25 now? Because you want it to? It's 6 sprues, about as much as a full squad box.

i found HW prices closer $29-$35.

Crablezworth wrote:

If you check the picture below on the left tower you can see a steel legion hb team, on the right tower you can see a missile team. Whiche one looks less slowed in that situation?

Alright ... then lets see you base heavy bolters , las cannon, auto cannon , mortar teams on 2 small round bases.

LunaHound wrote

"Alright ... then lets see you base heavy bolters , las cannon, auto cannon , mortar teams on 2 small round bases."

even if he does, is it "legal" to base them that way?

HB's can be hand-held like an Orlock ganger or the last chancer "Ox". It doesn't require S4 like a SM Scout or PA like a Sister.

No idea, but im trying to say i like the weapon team on 1 base.

and i agree with you. i magnetized the "loader" for easy removal. now it's not needed since they're a 2 wound model, i suppose.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

warboss wrote:they can get the heavy weapons but only if they base them illegally... grumble, stupid HW stat and basing change, grumble...

FWIW, I'm giving GW the finger on this one.

I didn't rebase my Termies, and I'm not rebasing my IG Heavies to satisfy some pointless change.

Fortunately, I play casual games, so this isn't an issue. We're smart enough to deal with keeping Loader & Gunner as separate models on 25mm bases.

i'll be doing the same since i don't play tournies. i made my new cadians match my other heavy weapons teams and ignored the big bases 5 years ago. it's less of an issue for me now since i took all the heavies out of regular squads and incorporated them into heavy weapon squads only. the new mobility in my previously static gunline is quite exhilarating!

That stinks, the old catachan battleforce had two sentinals and trees.

I would just buy one now and then get a command squad later if I still needed any IG infantry....which I don't!

This is well disappointing with the new IG stuff etc. up to now i was happy but the size and cost of the new BF this equals EPIC FAIL

warboss wrote:i'll be doing the same since i don't play tournies. i made my new cadians match my other heavy weapons teams and ignored the big bases 5 years ago. it's less of an issue for me now since i took all the heavies out of regular squads and incorporated them into heavy weapon squads only. the new mobility in my previously static gunline is quite exhilarating!

So.. what do you do with your guard squads? Run around shooting lasguns at people?

skullspliter888 wrote:This is well disappointing with the new IG stuff etc. up to now i was happy but the size and cost of the new BF this equals EPIC FAIL

And the new Battleforce can also be made into a single troops choice.

What do you expect them to do for Guard?
Give you a Leman Russ squadron in addition to the start of an Infantry Platoon?

They're not going to have a separate price pointed battleforce set just for Guard players.

Personally? I like this battleforce. It gives me a troop choice, one of the nice new Sentinels(of which I plan on having several squads of, if not an Emperor's Talon Recon Company for Apocalypse), and a command squad which has bits I can break down for Hardened Veteran Squads later on.
It's win/win for me.

Its win win for me too. Nice options and upgrades for people that uses sentinels .

Get three of these and a 20 man box and you have a full company of Guard.

Kanluwen wrote:What do you expect them to do for Guard?

1 Command Squad (5)
2 Infantry Squads (10)
1 Special Weapons Squad (6)
1 Heavy Weapons Squad (6)
1 Chimera Transport

*THAT* is what I'd have wanted for the IG Battleforce.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:What do you expect them to do for Guard?

1 Command Squad (5)
2 Infantry Squads (10)
1 Special Weapons Squad (6)
1 Heavy Weapons Squad (6)
1 Chimera Transport

*THAT* is what I'd have wanted for the IG Battleforce.

Frankly, the fact that at least the cadians didn't get a recut sprue to go along with the price increase was a bit of a suprise. I can almost see not including the heavy weapon, but to not have meltas and plasmas on the sprue make the IG one of the only armies that still have metal specials and plastic basic troops (along with DE warriors).

I think simply having such a low pt count along with an essentially incomplete troops choice (not enough plasma/melta) makes the box technically a good deal (if you like sentinels) but not something that really would make somebody buy into IG. Replacing the sentinel straight up with a Chimera would help, of course, or even for two more heavy weapon sprues (so you can have two line squads with heavies and a heavy weapon squad) wouldn't be bad.

looks at astropath....

*sith lord powers activate*

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:What do you expect them to do for Guard?

1 Command Squad (5)
2 Infantry Squads (10)
1 Special Weapons Squad (6)
1 Heavy Weapons Squad (6)
1 Chimera Transport

*THAT* is what I'd have wanted for the IG Battleforce.

And I bet you would've wanted to pay the same Battleforce price as well? Eventhough you've added at least an extra US$20 worth of models against the new Battleforce that gives you 26% off retail? (Or 21% if you want to adjust it to factor in the old troops price, which so many people seem justified in doing) Unrealistic. That's what your expectations are.

Unrealistic, only in the sense that GW grossly overprices IG infantry.

My reference point is the SM Battleforce, and the IG set should be at least competitive on a value standpoint, given the relative points values:
1 Scouts (5) -> 1 Command (5)
1 Tacticals (10) -> 2x Inf (2x 10)
1 Combat (5) -> 1 SWS (6)
1 Assault (5) -> 1 HWS (6)
1 Rhino -> 1 Chimera

So if the SM Battleforce is an economically viable proposition then so is my proposed IG Battleforce.

It just means GW doesn't get to rape the customer's wallet in the process.

Deff Dread red Edition wrote:One thing thats also bothering me,is that a lascannon on the Catachan sentinel,I thought that that Catachans were not allowed to take lascannons?

There are two kinds of Sentinels in the 'Dex, both Fast Attack with the same options. Only one has 10/10/10 open-topped and "move through cover" while the other is 12/10/10 and closed. Sadly no more Dreadnought CC weapons on any of them

Ozymandias wrote:HMBC, what happened to your Avatar!!!

[vader]Noooooooo![/vader]

Yeah, I miss that grumpy face too. Bring back Commissar Oldfart!

Ozy ain't talkin' 'bout me Anung.

And my new Avatar is coming, once Commissar Calgar has returned from his fishing trip.

ph34r wrote:

warboss wrote:i'll be doing the same since i don't play tournies. i made my new cadians match my other heavy weapons teams and ignored the big bases 5 years ago. it's less of an issue for me now since i took all the heavies out of regular squads and incorporated them into heavy weapon squads only. the new mobility in my previously static gunline is quite exhilarating!

So.. what do you do with your guard squads? Run around shooting lasguns at people?

yup. the roving gun wall comes in handy especially with the FRFSRF order combined with rapid fire at 12" (although i never made it last game since i rolled over 9 on ALL my leadership tests).

Should have bought a vox for a reroll!

JohnHwangDD wrote:Unrealistic, only in the sense that GW grossly overprices IG infantry.

My reference point is the SM Battleforce, and the IG set should be at least competitive on a value standpoint, given the relative points values:
1 Scouts (5) -> 1 Command (5)
1 Tacticals (10) -> 2x Inf (2x 10)
1 Combat (5) -> 1 SWS (6)
1 Assault (5) -> 1 HWS (6)
1 Rhino -> 1 Chimera

So if the SM Battleforce is an economically viable proposition then so is my proposed IG Battleforce.

It just means GW doesn't get to rape the customer's wallet in the process.

The thing is though - for you and many, many others I see posting on fourms around the place - the Battleforces have nothing whatsoever to do with points. They are simply a discount product (in so far as GW have discount products ) that bundle a bunch of plastic kits together for a %-off the retail price. That's it. Little thought goes into what force/unit composition you get in the box (beyond trying to give you a spread of what kits are available to that army) it's just a matter of what $-value kits fit into their $-per-Battleforce structure. And they will always use them to push new kits when re-doing them with new contents otherwise there's no point in re-doing them.

The value of the new IG Battleforces have been compromised somewhat though, in seeming to have factored in a price rise on new Guard items into the price. Not only on the individual box prices but also on the Battleforce retail price as well... bit of a double-whammy. I hate it when factor in a price rise on new products while the rest stay the same, because, like the ~£/$5 bump on the SM Spearhead/Thunderfire and the $8 bump on the Valkyrie, it just engenders illwill.

Yeah, however, the way that I constructed the Battleforce had nothing to do with points, nor prices. Simply how much "stuff" would fit in a SM Battleforce-sized box using IG equivalent sprues.

The fact that GW is actively screwing IG players is a separate issue that doesn't, and shouldn't affect proposed Battleforce contents.

I don't like the new Battleforce box for IG nearly as much because back when I was first collecting the army they were a great buy that helped me build up the collection fast and saving a little on the way. With this new contents I just have no Inclination of buying them except for the Catachan one since I don't have any of those.

I know that you lost a tank from the old one but it is now a legal platoon start and for new people that is what they need get this and three squad boxes and the platoon is full heavy weapons and all.
Some of us don't need more Russes but we do need the infantry. Things change time to live with the change.

This is a very weak battleforce. There is barely a platoon in that box let alone an army or "battleforce." I always realized IG were expensive because of the quantity needed but its ridiculous to be so heavily short changed on this. This force is so basic and lacking that if the space marines had been similarly treated they would have only received a tactical squad as theirs.

I like what's included in the box, you get a nice sized platoon plus a sentinel. Not a bad deal for $95. It's what, $130ish separately? And it's all stuff you'll use too.

I do agree it's not much of a "battleforce" though. They should have just called it a platoon box set or something like that.

JohnHwangDD wrote:HB's can be hand-held like an Orlock ganger or the last chancer "Ox". It doesn't require S4 like a SM Scout or PA like a Sister.

John, by that logic, lascannons can also be hand-held like the Delaque ganger heavy. I don't disagree with it - I'm just saying.

@DBM: *exactly*. That's why I don't get the whole 2E fascination with the split-trail carriages, nor the need for big tripods in the current design.

As I see it, a Lascannon is just an Anti-Tank Rifle that *works*.

It's an anti-tank rifle that works because it is 10 feet long and shoots lasers as big around as your head...

Which is pretty much like any other functional ATR.

I'm curious how many points the new Cadian box is. Could anyone tell me using the 'current' codex?

The content of those battleforces is really lacking. They should have at least included a Chimera or a Russ to make it live up to the title "Battle Force"

It all stems from the fact that the command squads are overpriced.

On a side note the master of ordnance looks a lot like Sam Shepherd in black hawk down.

LunaHound wrote:
Its like combing your 3 pieces of hair left on your bald head GW, you are only lying to yourself!!!!!

Wait, whosawhatsit!? I have no idea what you mean...

I'd assume that while IG [i]can[/]i carry their heavy weapons around (in most cases) the tripod is probably required for accuracy. Althoguh I don't think a lascannon would have much recoil...

Balance wrote:I'd assume that while IG [i]can[/]i carry their heavy weapons around (in most cases) the tripod is probably required for accuracy. Althoguh I don't think a lascannon would have much recoil...

It's a heavy weapon requiring a stable platform to fire from...

I dunno if this was mentioned before in the 128439 new IG posts lately, prolly was but I missed it.

Anyhoo, I stopped at my local shop to pick up some supplies. I heard rumors that GW wasn't gonna be selling too many blisters to stores anymore so I asked and yeah, it's true.

So, if you are considering buying any of the new metal models, and you wanna get it from your FLGS, you should prolly pre-order it so the they knows how many they needs to order. Most stuff will only be available for stores to order for like 1 whole week! that's nuts.

it's partly due to the skyrocketing costs of metal and all that stuff. So, if you wait, you may miss out on the models you want or you'll have to special order direct from GW.

@ Necros,

Do you mean metal miniatures or metal in general. Cause since the credit crunch metal prices are as low as they can get. Compated to last year the company I worked far saw the price of stainless steel drop by more then 200%

I guess metal miniatures? At my club game day a couple weekends ago some guys were talking about how they couldn't get blisters at stores anymore, so I asked at my FLGS and they confirmed it. So, most new metal releases that are in blister packs should only be available for the first week to a month tops, then it becomes direct only.

Who knows maybe GW is just trying to phase out blisters and start putting stuff all in little boxes?