Not sure if you have heard, but AT-43 is getting Army Boxes starting in July. Confrontation will get Army Boxes in September. These are 2000 pt. legal armies. R. is changing its packaging model to lower the number of SKUs the stores have to handle and create a fantastic price-point for entry into the game.




AT-43 Cogs: Cogs Army Box Set $70.00 US
The Army Box: Cogs contains a complete company for AT-43 the ready assembled and painted miniatures game.

* 1 unit of 4 Warmongers: basic super-soldiers
* 1 unit of 4 Sharpshooters: elite super-soldiers
* 1 Prowler: basic combat strider
* 1 Vandal: the most powerful Cog combat strider
* 3 heroes from the C-Naps line: C-Naps G09, C-Naps G36 and C-Naps G45
* 3 high walls
* 1 container
* Introductory Rules
* 1 Cog tactical manual
* 1 game poster
* 12 dice
* 1 “Cog” ruler
* 1 explosion template
* 8 game cards


AT-43 Red Blok: Red Blok Army Box Set $70.00 US
The Army Box: Red Blok contains a complete company for AT-43 the ready assembled and painted miniatures game.

* 1 unit of 12 Krasnye Soldaty: regular infantry containing three grenade launchers, two medics and an officer
* 1 unit of 8 Krasnye Soldaty: regular infantry containing one grenade launcher, two mechanics and an officer
* 6 Dragonov Kommandos: elite infantry with one sniper rifle, an electronic warfare specialist, a medic and an officer
* Odin O-1 and Manon O-2: the Red Blok’s two greatest heroes
* 1 Urod: Odin O-1’s and Manon O-2’s combat strider
* 1 Dotch Yaga: the most heavily armored combat strider to ever grace the battlefield
* 6 low walls
* 1 container
* Introductory Rules
* 1 Red Blok revolutionary forces tactical manual
* 1 game poster
* 12 dice
* 1“Red Blok” ruler
* 1 explosion template
* 26 game cards

So is it the same rules? Not that they're bad rules or anything, but I really don't want to have to mess with those cards.

No rules changes, and you read that right...2000pts for $70.

We do not know what the intro rules look like, but this is not a revision of the game system. I assume it is enough to play your army (along with the tatical hints) but not a full rulebook.

holy buckets, $70? I feel like a chump getting ~3500 points for $230, even if I can't find some of what I need.

I was thinking about Cogs last year, but at $70 I can get several.

Dal'yth Dude wrote:holy buckets, $70? I feel like a chump getting ~3500 points for $230, even if I can't find some of what I need.

I was thinking about Cogs last year, but at $70 I can get several.

Yeah, it's going to be much easier and cheaper to get into the game after these roll out.

If you really want one I would suggest pre-order as soon as you can. Distibuters are talking limited supply lines. due to the way rackham wants to sell to the USA . As a store owner trying to secure my own copy ( I love the game) I would let your favorite game supplier know you want one asap....

G-Dogg

Empire1 wrote:If you really want one I would suggest pre-order as soon as you can. Distibuters are talking limited supply lines. due to the way rackham wants to sell to the USA . As a store owner trying to secure my own copy ( I love the game) I would let your favorite game supplier know you want one asap....

G-Dogg

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "due to the way rackham wants to sell to the USA"?

clevername wrote:

Empire1 wrote:If you really want one I would suggest pre-order as soon as you can. Distibuters are talking limited supply lines. due to the way rackham wants to sell to the USA . As a store owner trying to secure my own copy ( I love the game) I would let your favorite game supplier know you want one asap....

G-Dogg

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "due to the way rackham wants to sell to the USA"?

I second that. They would sell more in the U.S. if they tried harder.

I wish I could guys, sorry. that type of inside info isnt something to be posted on these forums where things can turn and get mixed up.
Like I said its would be a really good idea to let your gaming supplier know what you want ASAP this will give them the time to check thier sources as to whom they can get these new army deals from not every distributer will be carring them and the distributers who do may only have a limited suppy but that supply may grow if they know in advance how many folks will be wanting some.
Store owners and distributers are only buying what they think they can sell and with rachham asking most distributers to buy more than they think they can sell not every distributer will want to commite and fork out the dough. So again pre order is going to big a big deal.

Good luck!

Dal'yth Dude wrote:holy buckets, $70? I feel like a chump getting ~3500 points for $230

No, anyone that buys a Dotch Yaga in May for $50 will feel like a chump when months later you can pick up one plus the rest of the army for $70.

I see my self buying one for each army.

Excellent deal indeed. I will probably pick up a UNA one just for more Inquisitorial Stormtroopers.

Here I am wanting to try a different game and along comes AT-43 boxed armies for 70$ USD...

...perhaps its a sign...

Not to sound like a downer or anything, since I too am a fan of AT-43 and I own two armies...

But given the fact that around where I am, there's very little interest in the game (the Rackham Sentinel pretty much up and disappeared), and given the recent landslide in price (the TWO fire sales in the past few months and the fact that even the Warstore has cut its AT-43 prices like crazy), and now these steals for box sets appear...I have to wonder a bit as to the health of the game.

I hate to say this, but it seems that price increases seem to mark a healthy game system, whereas the opposite...well....

I hope I am wrong.

If I had any faith at all in Rackham as a company, I might be tempted to pick one of these up.

But sadly, I do not.

Ive been gaming since I was 25 and Im now 44. And in all that time Ive never know a more negative/depressive forum than dakka. I mean no offence to you personaly guys, but the vib on this site is a downer.
Cheers

I hear the "Rackham is dead" thing all the time. I've started to look at AT-43 not as something that I will spend months/years at a stretch playing, but more like Monopoly or video games; a game I can pick up and play for a few hours with little time investment.

Saint Anuman wrote:Ive been gaming since I was 25 and Im now 44. And in all that time Ive never know a more negative/depressive forum than dakka. I mean no offence to you personaly guys, but the vib on this site is a downer.
Cheers

Really? I like to think the site is filled with skeptical enthusiasts. Dakka kept
me in the hobby when I really had no contact with people who played these games,
and they've also kept my feet grounded and my reach far.

Rackham is riding some really bad PR, so it's no surprise that you're going to get
a negative vibe on a forum where Rackham's games are on the periphery already. The
price is really really good, but it's like toxic assets; everyone's afraid to invest in
something that appears to have a good chance of declining rather than growing.

malfred wrote:

Saint Anuman wrote:Ive been gaming since I was 25 and Im now 44. And in all that time Ive never know a more negative/depressive forum than dakka. I mean no offence to you personaly guys, but the vib on this site is a downer.
Cheers

Really? I like to think the site is filled with skeptical enthusiasts. Dakka kept
me in the hobby when I really had no contact with people who played these games,
and they've also kept my feet grounded and my reach far.

Rackham is riding some really bad PR, so it's no surprise that you're going to get
a negative vibe on a forum where Rackham's games are on the periphery already. The
price is really really good, but it's like toxic assets; everyone's afraid to invest in
something that appears to have a good chance of declining rather than growing.

Well said (again!) Malfred.

I find that these days Dakka is an island of sanity in a sea of sludge, really.

Most other sites are filled with relentless pom-pom wavers, kool-aid drinkers and shouters of "Tactics!".

Sure, the level of world weary cynicism is somewhat higher on Dakka than other places, but it is better than the alternative.

And of course, if Dakka is too much like virtual sand in your shorts, well...

And, back on point, Rackham deserves EVERY bit of skepticism and scorn that they receive, at this point, after pulling off one of the biggest swindles on an existing fan base EVER.

Alpharius wrote:

And, back on point, Rackham deserves EVERY bit of skepticism and scorn that they receive, at this point, after pulling off one of the biggest swindles on an existing fan base EVER.

Which is what exactly?

In short, Rackham led their existing fanbase down the path of RAGNAROK 2 (mass battle game) and CONFRONTATION 4 (skirmish game) with NO mention of prepainted plastics, encouraging everyone to 'ramp up' for RAG 2, all the while knowing that they were about to completely abandon their existing model, and for the most part, their existing fanbase.

It could have and should have been handled a lot better than it was, and as it is, they've really alienated their old fan base and, by many accounts, are doing that well now either.

Oh well - karma!

Alpharius wrote:In short, Rackham led their existing fanbase down the path of RAGNAROK 2 (mass battle game) and CONFRONTATION 4 (skirmish game) with NO mention of prepainted plastics, encouraging everyone to 'ramp up' for RAG 2, all the while knowing that they were about to completely abandon their existing model, and for the most part, their existing fanbase.

It could have and should have been handled a lot better than it was, and as it is, they've really alienated their old fan base and, by many accounts, are doing that well now either.

Oh well - karma!

At least they are alive and trying... Squats are dead, starship troppers is dead, mutant chronicles is dead, Hell Dorado IIRC is gonna die, GW is alienating some of its fan base (Me and some people I had talked too) due to its "revamping/renewing/recodexing all over each few years" making everything bigger and bigger more money more money bahh... not really different to others IMO... but you have yours, so thats ok...

And by the way, people STILL can use Conf figures on its CAoR... not as much as Squats for example

Yes, Rackham is trying and the price makes this intriguing, but we're still going to be skeptical
about a pre-painted game with drama attached to it. I wasn't around for Confrontation (other
than buying random figs), but I wouldn't characterize what happened as a swindle so
much as a series of badly handled business decisions.

I guess deliberately misleading their customer base could be described as 'bad business decisions', I guess...

Do any of you play the game and besides just buying a few figures is anyone truly invested in the game who is posting with a slight negative vibe?

I have over 3000 points for each army (all four with more to come) I play when ever I can and take part in a once a month game night with others who play AT-43. Ive also organized tournaments and enjoy taking part in the regional At-43 gaming community.
Until your truly invested in the game with BOTH time and money you shoud try less negativity and try the game and its group of players out for a test drive.

You have some points but things are moving forward I hope ypu can see that as well as the other stuff .

Saint Anuman wrote:Do any of you play the game and besides just buying a few figures is anyone truly invested in the game who is posting with a slight negative vibe?

I have over 3000 points for each army (all four with more to come) I play when ever I can and take part in a once a month game night with others who play AT-43. Ive also organized tournaments and enjoy taking part in the regional At-43 gaming community.
Until your truly invested in the game with BOTH time and money you shoud try less negativity and try the game and its group of players out for a test drive.

You sound like me with Warmachine

I don't know who on this forum are heavily involved with AT-43. I know that syr has
some stuff and Hellfury repaints and touches up his stuff. Of course there's Duncan Idaho,
but that ghola always has his own reasons.

You could always start a poll in General Discussions.

I chat with those guys on the R site and a yahoo fan group..LOL
Starting a poll sounds fun what do you have in mind?

Maybe just a basic: How many of you play AT-43? with the one option: I do. Have them
post in the thread to clarify.

I wonder if you can do a one option poll.

malfred wrote:Maybe just a basic: How many of you play AT-43? with the one option: I do. Have them
post in the thread to clarify.

I wonder if you can do a one option poll.

Maybe add something like ...
plan to buy into game soon.
just started playing
Been playing for more than a year

this might give a few options.???
Thoughts?

Well, I'm one of those who:

1) was interested in a pre-painted Sci Fi miniatures game (I have enough to paint already)
2) bought two armies for AT-43 (both totalling over 2000 points)
3) tried it with my friends who didn't quite take to it (started with the Damocles missions)
4) probably got the rules wrong in the process
5) was hoping to get a tutorial from a Rackham Sentinel to get the rules right
6) and get some games in with other players

I only got to step 4. I contacted a Rackham Sentinel at a nearby FLGS who was trying to get AT-43 going...but he has since fallen off the face of the planet.

So, if you are asking if I'm a regular player, then my answer is no.

However, I did invest, and I did try.

I don't know anything about Rackham prior to AT-43, so I didn't know about the previous debacle with Ragnarok or Confrontation, but I am skeptical enough to realize that the price drops for AT-43 could mean bad news for the company, which would ultimately be bad for players, even if there are good deals to be had now.

Malfred's analogy about toxic assets is a good one. Sure, the prices are good...but the risk is too uncertain for me to bite.

Awesome response BTW pompe,
The current problem of low cost items and the perception by gamers that things are bad is due to a fallen out of Fantasy Flight games and Rackham the company is strong and working hard on many fronts some researce at the rackham site and forum can get you the details. Everyone is aware of the damage FFG did to the hobby(retailers and gamers alike) and is trying to point folks in the right direction things like the recent campaign box set "Operation frostbite" and the new army box deals and a steady flow of new models is one way rackham is moving forward but I must admite if your not looking for these steps forward you might not notice them. This summer looks like a exciting time for us AT-43 fans in both new toys and new folks jumping in the game.

So what was the deal with FFG dropping it?

I'm not sure, but perhaps Rackham becoming Rackham Entertainment had some effect on the contracts and RE wanted to start over?

Saint Anuman wrote:Awesome response BTW pompe,
The current problem of low cost items and the perception by gamers that things are bad is due to a fallen out of Fantasy Flight games and Rackham the company is strong and working hard on many fronts some researce at the rackham site and forum can get you the details. Everyone is aware of the damage FFG did to the hobby(retailers and gamers alike) and is trying to point folks in the right direction things like the recent campaign box set "Operation frostbite" and the new army box deals and a steady flow of new models is one way rackham is moving forward but I must admite if your not looking for these steps forward you might not notice them. This summer looks like a exciting time for us AT-43 fans in both new toys and new folks jumping in the game.

I'm glad you're into AT-43 and I hope it all works out for you and for anyone else who likes the game.

But, while FFG probably did Rackham no favors, I think that it was Rackham itself that did the most 'damage' to the 'Rackham hobby' (retailers and gamers alike).

FFG dropped it to focus on their own PPP games(including becoming the US distributors/producers for DUST).

I loved the game so much(I own all 4 armies and plan on getting both Cogs and ONI and will be working the Rackham booth at Gencon), I became a Sentinel. Both of the game stores I've been to here in Colorado Springs so far are eager for me to start demos and organized play. There's plenty of interest, luckily.

AT-43 has pretty much become my sci-fi minis game of choices at the moment. I still like 40K, but let's face it: GW is more about the models and the "hobby" now than it is about the game. Codex Creep, utter lack of attention to armies for years on end, and it's always had wonky, special rules-oriented rules in general...Kill Points...it's not a bad game per se, but the shining aspects of 40K are the hobby aspects, the building and painting things.

AT-43 is a game first and foremost. It shows in the design - considering AT-43 is only in its first edition, the ruleset is surprisingly solid. Not perfect, and sometimes the translations can get "interesting." It's a very different game than 40K, so in my mind the two complement each other very nicely.

Money is a reasonable issue as none of these games are cheap...but almost every AT-43 unit is currently 66% off at The War Store or Miniature Market. You can get a 2,000-point army, which is the equivalent of a 1,500-point 40K army, for maybe $100 right now. That's pretty insane, if you think about it.

It's a complete anomaly, however, and doesn't speak at all to the health of Rackham Entertainment. It's just the result of FFG getting rid of its stock, which is to be expected once they ceased to be the U.S. distributor. When Rackham reorganized into Rackham Entertainment, they made some different decisions about distribution I guess, hence the change-up.

I don't see RE's balance books so I cannot speak to the health of the company per se, but they're releasing models back on the previous schedule, and these army box deals are probably loss leaders intended to reinvigorate the game.

From a business point of view, you don't roll out loss leaders with all new boxes, and brand new rulebook prints, if you're planning on selling off the company assets. These army boxes are an investment in the future...so you can read into that what you will.

You can also read into the fact that the Cogs are entirely new...chances are the molds for these models weren't even around yet back in October when the company re-organized, and RE is also moving ahead with plans for the sixth AT-43 a rmy, ONI. Some of the ONI product SKUs are already being listed at Alliance Games I think...

I never played Confrontation myself as I'm only a sci-fi/historical wargamer, so I can't speak to all that drama...but any objective assessment of RE right now speaks to a company which has rallied and which plans to support AT-43 for quite a while.

If you've never played AT-43, give it a try. It's very fast and extremely brutal - but it also focuses on objective-based play and the "I move a unit, you move a unit" gameplay leads to immersive games as well.

Personally, I like that a 3,000-point game can take less than an hour once you know the rules...so if I have a bad game, I can quickly setup and play another one and try to put into practice whatever lesson I probably just learned.

A friend and I recently played five 2,000-point games in about 4 hours. That would normally not even be enough time for two 40K games...

Cairnius wrote:chances are the molds for these models weren't even around yet back in October when the company re-organized

The molds were, in fact, around before the re-organization. The winner of the GenCon '08 tournament got to take home a Cog Prototype. Note, NOT a sculpt, but one of the prototype casts that are normally hand painted and used for the pictures you see in the books and Cry Havoc Online.

*All* the molds?

I'd still argue that putting the Cogs into full production is a sure-fire sign of health in a company...

Cairnius wrote:*All* the molds?

Not sure, they don't tell us everything.

malfred wrote:

Saint Anuman wrote:Do any of you play the game and besides just buying a few figures is anyone truly invested in the game who is posting with a slight negative vibe?

I have over 3000 points for each army (all four with more to come) I play when ever I can and take part in a once a month game night with others who play AT-43. Ive also organized tournaments and enjoy taking part in the regional At-43 gaming community.
Until your truly invested in the game with BOTH time and money you shoud try less negativity and try the game and its group of players out for a test drive.

You sound like me with Warmachine

I don't know who on this forum are heavily involved with AT-43. I know that syr has
some stuff and Hellfury repaints and touches up his stuff. Of course there's Duncan Idaho,
but that ghola always has his own reasons.

You could always start a poll in General Discussions.

I am involved I have 2 almost complete armies (Therians and REd Blok) play 1 a month... more if time-wife-job allows...

i repaint my therians...looking forward to do the same with RB

So no,we are not alone

The few games I've had of AT-43 showed it to be a great game – very dynamic, exciting and much more involved than 40k owing to the alternating unit sequence (rather than 'I go, you go'). What's stopped my gaming group getting more into the game is:
1) The pre-painted nature of the game. My group is primarily hobbyists. While the paint itself isn't a problem (indeed, it removes the need to prime); the fact the models come pre-assembled is. They're a pig to convert, owing to the softer plastic.
2) Expense. In contrast to the US (where there seems to be a near-permanent sale!), the UK has the most expensive AT-43 miniatures, owing to the strength of the Euro versus Sterling. The $100 cost for a 2000pt army quoted earlier is around £165 ($243) RRP, assuming an army a little like this: 3 x Fire Toads; 1 x Defender Snake; 2 x boxes of Steel Troopers; 2 x Steel Troopers attachments.

That's a fairly conservative army. Taking into account special deals on webstores, you could get it for around £130 or so, but it's still more than twice the US price.

Apologist wrote:The few games I've had of AT-43 showed it to be a great game – very dynamic, exciting and much more involved than 40k owing to the alternating unit sequence (rather than 'I go, you go'). What's stopped my gaming group getting more into the game is:
1) The pre-painted nature of the game. My group is primarily hobbyists. While the paint itself isn't a problem (indeed, it removes the need to prime); the fact the models come pre-assembled is. They're a pig to convert, owing to the softer plastic.
2) Expense. In contrast to the US (where there seems to be a near-permanent sale!), the UK has the most expensive AT-43 miniatures, owing to the strength of the Euro versus Sterling. The $100 cost for a 2000pt army quoted earlier is around £165 ($243) RRP, assuming an army a little like this: 3 x Fire Toads; 1 x Defender Snake; 2 x boxes of Steel Troopers; 2 x Steel Troopers attachments.

That's a fairly conservative army. Taking into account special deals on webstores, you could get it for around £130 or so, but it's still more than twice the US price.

I dont try to being rude, but this "hobby" theory is just lame, The VERY FIRT batch (operation damocles) was soft plastic; all of the ret are as similar as GW , I have converted my therians without ANY problem; yes you may not have all the bitz that you may have in GW packs... but if you are in the "hobby" that shouldnt be a problem really... Yes it may take a differnt approach as they are already pre-assembled and pre-painted, but it is just a mmatter of doing thimngs in a different way... anyway you have to clean GW minis anyway and pinning and so on.

The price in UK...? well you are right, stil for that money you can rder a full 2000 pts from US and get more minies, and still considering you dont HAVE to paint them just play staright and the pre-paints are far much better than most of the armies of GW that I have seen...

Just wanted to respond to that and clear up any misunderstandings – certainly didn't mean to be abrasive!

I dont try to being rude, but this "hobby" theory is just lame, The VERY FIRT batch (operation damocles) was soft plastic; all of the ret are as similar as GW , I have converted my therians without ANY problem;

Hmm – all of the AT-43 infantry models I've seen have been a much more pliable plastic than GW. Perhaps I've just been unlucky.

yes you may not have all the bitz that you may have in GW packs... but if you are in the "hobby" that shouldnt be a problem really... Yes it may take a differnt approach as they are already pre-assembled and pre-painted, but it is just a mmatter of doing thimngs in a different way... anyway you have to clean GW minis anyway and pinning and so on.

Don't get me wrong – I don't really mind the soft plastic. I've used the bits for various conversions:



But the point remains that I would prefer to have the models provided unpainted, in pieces, on a sprue – even if that meant paying a little more.

My group has been pretty much polarised by the prepainted nature of the game: some love it, some hate it. As a result, the ones that love it don't buy in because the ones that hate it won't, and then the available pool of gamers is smaller.

I don't pretend that my group's a microcosm of the wider gaming world – it's merely an anecdote.

The price in UK...? well you are right, stil for that money you can rder a full 2000 pts from US and get more minies

I looked into this, and unfortunately the shipping knocks it back up to around £140 owing to UK import tax. Sad, but there you go.

still considering you dont HAVE to paint them just play staright and the pre-paints are far much better than most of the armies of GW that I have seen...

Absolutely true, but I'm much more concerned with painting and modelling than I am with playing games. Rackham's approach is entirely viable – just not one that appeals to me personally.

However, to bring this back on topic, the new army boxes seem fantastic – and if the savings translate to the UK, I'm sure that AT-43 will enjoy an upsurge in popularity. The rules are fantastic, the models are good, and the pre-painted nature will make it appeal to a slightly different market than traditional modellers.

Thier was talk from "R" on thier forum of "hobby Kits" being released, unpainted still on the spru kits... Can any AT 43 Fan reading this ad a link or mention any other news they might have about these "hobby kits"???.

I love Rackham. Er, make that loved.

Confrontation was the perfect game IMHO. Beautiful minis appealed to me as a painter, but also the small army size meant that it was easy to own several armies. The rules also had enough complexity to keep the 'hardened' gamers happy.

A new rule set was put out which expanded from skirmish to full armies. The rules were a bit clunky and poorly received. Shortly afterwards, the metal minis that were arguably the most creative gaming pieces on the market were essentially discontinued in favour of somewhat bland pre-painted plastics. Hobbyists were screwed, and gamers were screwed.

So yeah, there's some bitterness over Rackham, and the caution is warranted in my opinion. I bought a Red Blok army and repainted some of it in the hopes of getting people into the new game. But after being burned once by R, it's extremely hard to convince the local gamers to send more money their way. I'd love to see AT-43 thrive, but R compounded their problems by not giving out much information in the last 18 months about their future.

Saint Anuman wrote:Thier was talk from "R" on thier forum of "hobby Kits" being released, unpainted still on the spru kits... Can any AT 43 Fan reading this ad a link or mention any other news they might have about these "hobby kits"???.

Nope. I've been checking frequently, and this is dead. Fire Industries started resin versions of Therians which were available unpainted (at a much higher proposed cost) but of course they closed Fire Industries. It was the final nail in the coffin for me.

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2007/11/15/11000

Rackham Legends is creating some new stuff in resin. Not rank n' file, but collector's pieces:

http://www.confrontation.fr/images/CHO/CHONEW/UK/RACKLEGUK.html

Mastiff wrote:

Saint Anuman wrote:Thier was talk from "R" on thier forum of "hobby Kits" being released, unpainted still on the spru kits... Can any AT 43 Fan reading this ad a link or mention any other news they might have about these "hobby kits"???.

Nope. I've been checking frequently, and this is dead. Fire Industries started resin versions of Therians which were available unpainted (at a much higher proposed cost) but of course they closed Fire Industries. It was the final nail in the coffin for me.

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2007/11/15/11000

Rackham Legends is creating some new stuff in resin. Not rank n' file, but collector's pieces:

http://www.confrontation.fr/images/CHO/CHONEW/UK/RACKLEGUK.html

Mastiff, he means the unpainted PLASTIC vehicle model kits that Rackham was planning on doing this year(as mentioned in the press release when they restructured into Rackham Entertainment), not the Resin Legends line. Unfortunately, these were postponed indefinitely.

The whole company seems mismanaged really, and I don't want to get stuck with more useless minis after my foray into Starship Troopers.

I mean, it took them this long to realize how to do into army boxes? Damocles sucked as an intro too.

About the only thing I'm interested in was Dogs of War and it looks like all support for confrontation 3.5 and DoW is being dropped.

So color me disinterested when they make a few resin miniatures that likely will be unsupported.

Considering the AT-43 are multi poseable at the 2 arms and torso , i see little to no reason for it to be in multi piece kit like GW's. You get to pose them when you want, as often as you want. Not like GW's glued pieces. As in the weaponry, just buy the set up you want.

Multi...poseable? Oh you mean before they glue them together
at the factory. I broke the arm off my first Karman trying to
pose the arms.

malfred wrote:Multi...poseable? Oh you mean before they glue them together
at the factory. I broke the arm off my first Karman trying to
pose the arms.

Im not sure what types of karmans you have ( the ones i have are the rail gun ones ) i use as kroot ox.

The rest of the humanoids una and red blok the arms can be posed ( unless its holding missle launcher or gun that requires 2 hands )
but i did run into ONE odd one where the arms are glued (maybe the person forgot to leave it ?)

Yummy substitutes for IG artillary

Mastiff, he means the unpainted PLASTIC vehicle model kits that Rackham was planning on doing this year(as mentioned in the press release when they restructured into Rackham Entertainment), not the Resin Legends line. Unfortunately, these were postponed indefinitely.

Yep, I understood what he was asking about, sorry if I wasn't clear in my response. They had originally proposed unpainted plastic versions of their entire range, but scrapped that idea shortly after the first releases a year and a half ago. Then R proposed resin releases of the existing PPP range. That got dropped too. Then came word Fire Industries, a subsidiary of Rackham, would create new sculpts of the existing range in resin to appeal to collectors and painters. FI died a sudden and ignomious death a year ago. Rackham Legends has recently been proposing specialty minis in resin, but not copies of the existing AT-43 range.

Better?

Mastiff wrote:

Mastiff, he means the unpainted PLASTIC vehicle model kits that Rackham was planning on doing this year(as mentioned in the press release when they restructured into Rackham Entertainment), not the Resin Legends line. Unfortunately, these were postponed indefinitely.

Yep, I understood what he was asking about, sorry if I wasn't clear in my response. They had originally proposed unpainted plastics, scrapped that idea shortly after the first releases a year and a half ago, then proposed resin releases of the existing PPP range. That got dropped too, then they came word fire Industries, a subsidiary of Rackham, would create new sculpts of the existing range in resin to appeal to collectors and paintes. FI died a sudden and ignomious death a year ago. Rackham Legends has recently been proposing specialty minis in resin, but not copies of the existing AT-43 range.

Better?

Perhaps, but the Announcement of plastic also came again AFTER FI left Rackham to do other projects(the same time as the announcement of reformation , Rush n' Crush and the novels). FI didn't "die a sudden and ignomious death", they simply decided that it would be better to do their own thing than be tied down to Rackham for all eternity and renamed themselves Grey Matter Figures. It's the same company, different name.

Perhaps, but the Announcement of plastic also came again AFTER FI left Rackham to do other projects. FI didn't "die a sudden and ignomious death", they simply decided that it would be better to do their own thing than be tied down to Rackham for all eternity and renamed themselves Grey Matter Figures. It's the same company, different name.

That's an odd way of looking at it. They changed their name, have a completely new product line and are longer licensed to produce anything for Rackham. There is zero chance they will produce anything for AT-43. For the purposes of our discussion, how is that not dead?

Actually they have quite some of their designes reused for their new company, just without the copyrighted Rackham names/minis .

A new rule set was put out which expanded from skirmish to full armies. The rules were a bit clunky and poorly received. Shortly afterwards, the metal minis that were arguably the most creative gaming pieces on the market were essentially discontinued in favour of somewhat bland pre-painted plastics. Hobbyists were screwed, and gamers were screwed.

The metals were discontinued because stock was full and some oft it still lasts until today. It does not help you if only the art guys buy your stuff and the rest is frightened to even touch it with a drop of paint. Rackham hit the brakes before the company hit the wall (Warmachine is in the same modus right now). You can expand a skirmish system only that much before it goes down under its own wight. Rules became too complicated and Small skirmish armies sold not enough, even with people have 2-3 armies. Rackham is the only company that lasted close to 10 years before having to switch, others (like PP) had to change much earlier or are goners.

Some of it happned that fast that even the folks were surprised by some of the momentum. It could have been managed better, but looking back at how GW managed their transition in the late 80's they did not that bad and at least Rackham is mainly owned by the people who care for the game and the purse instead just for the latter.

Financially Rackham is now in a position were they can branch out and introduce loss leaders without having to fear for the company.

@FFG
We had the same problem here with UC. Both companies wanted to much with to small an investment and had no experience with TTs before. FFG had to kill off al its TTs. FFG and UC lost quite some money, but quite some of it was due to their own fault and mismanagement of the product. Low prices of their fire sales in the end were a good thing, it boosted the player base considerably.

I mean, it took them this long to realize how to do into army boxes? Damocles sucked as an intro too.

Yeah, and GW introduced army boxes after a little bit more than two years after the whole line hit the market, while having 6 full armies ready, sure.

I would just like to point out that people in this thread have bashed on Rackham for screwing over their players, being poorly managed, and producing inferior products.

Please, let us compare Rackham, then, to GW. Or, if you'd rather, Games "Let's Piss Off Our Players" Workshop, which produces a nauseatingly buggy ruleset, is horribly biased towards certain armies while leaving others to languish for YEARS, can't seem to come out with a FAQ for anything in a timespan measured in a scale less than "months", seems to base rules on what needs to be sold, and a host of other complaints.

Just trying to put it in perspective.

So just because one company screws over their players worse, we should accept another company screwing us over to a lesser extent?

No, that argument isn't quite valid.

Rackham has screwed over players and suffered from mismanagement, they deserve the scrutiny. However, if they can keep up the releases and keep the prices lower for these boxes, all the better.

However, Rackham seems to be buying into the GW mindset.

Does anyone know if these box sets will be available in the UK? I've seen $ prices and € prices but not seen any £ prices anywhere... Or is it a case of the UK market is to small for them to bother?
Mick

I plan on getting the army boxes for any armies they put out. I think this is a really great game and hope to get a good group going in my area.

My reasons for playing are:
#1 prepainted / preassembled - I don't have much time to game so I don't want to waste time assembling and painitng, especially when I'm terrible at it anyway.
#2 Cost - The game costs less and require less minis to play than 40k which it seems tGW is making some things cheaper in the codexes or available in larger numbers so you have to buy more of them. I could buy 2 maybe more AT-43 armies for the price of 1 40k army
#3 Rules - I really like the rule system, granted some of the english rules interpretations need work. But I like the I take actions with a unit then you do. I have played 40k games frequently where my opponent has destoyed a good portion of my army before I even got a turn. I know that some of that is luck, placement...etc...but I think its far less tactical when I move and shoot my entire army then you do the same.

I tried asking a local game store about starting a group at thier location, which is 75% GW players and was told that no I couldn't play there because they had no plans on selling it :(. They don't like or sell prepainted games and one of the owners jokingly refers to themselves as "hobby snobs".

If anyone in the north Atlanta area wants to play or knows of a place to play please let me know. I should have 2 complete armies in the near future if anyone wants to give it a try before buying into it. If I can find a place to play that is.

Visceral_Mass wrote:I plan on getting the army boxes for any armies they put out. I think this is a really great game and hope to get a good group going in my area.

My reasons for playing are:
#1 prepainted / preassembled - I don't have much time to game so I don't want to waste time assembling and painitng, especially when I'm terrible at it anyway.
#2 Cost - The game costs less and require less minis to play than 40k which it seems tGW is making some things cheaper in the codexes or available in larger numbers so you have to buy more of them. I could buy 2 maybe more AT-43 armies for the price of 1 40k army
#3 Rules - I really like the rule system, granted some of the english rules interpretations need work. But I like the I take actions with a unit then you do. I have played 40k games frequently where my opponent has destoyed a good portion of my army before I even got a turn. I know that some of that is luck, placement...etc...but I think its far less tactical when I move and shoot my entire army then you do the same.

I tried asking a local game store about starting a group at thier location, which is 75% GW players and was told that no I couldn't play there because they had no plans on selling it :(. They don't like or sell prepainted games and one of the owners jokingly refers to themselves as "hobby snobs".

If anyone in the north Atlanta area wants to play or knows of a place to play please let me know. I should have 2 complete armies in the near future if anyone wants to give it a try before buying into it. If I can find a place to play that is.

You make some good points about the game and the hobby snobs!
Keep looking for a place to play Comic stores are another option as AT-43 is a "gateway" for boardgamers and such and belive it or not you have friends in the hobby try fan groups like New England AT-43 Fan Group http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/NEAT-43/ membership is open to everyone and we seen players get hooked up with others thru that site from all over including England...LOL

Regardless of what is said on this forum the game is going well and fans are growing our First monday of the month AT-43 game night has a from 4 to 10 players showing up regularly and it started with just one guy like your self ...keep fighting the good fight....

Anyone noticed that the box cover for the Red Blok force includes a new Medfium ** strider with two AT cannon. About time.

Orlanth wrote:Anyone noticed that the box cover for the Red Blok force includes a new Medfium ** strider with two AT cannon. About time.

Its not gonna happen, the Army book has the same drawing....

the box clearly say it is UROD a Hetman, so it is AT cannon and rocket laucher.

Never say never...

Duncan_Idaho wrote:Never say never...

Ha, I never say never... 2 AT would be FANTASTORGASMIC but also a Ussar with missiles and AT cannon or 2 missiles----

I love AT-43! their weapon switching options are so nicely built into their models.

no need to magnetize , no need for constant army book change! Just card change at most!


Such a new yet smart company!
not to mention amazing models, poseable , and
almost no mold lines!

LunaHound wrote:I love AT-43! their weapon switching options are so nicely built into their models.

no need to magnetize , no need for constant army book change! Just card change at most!


Such a new yet smart company!
not to mention amazing models, poseable , and
almost no mold lines!

I agree with you.... it is a very intelligent system and minis

Wolfen wrote:
I agree with you.... it is a very intelligent system and minis

Now if I could only get Steel Trooper attachment boxes I'd have some useful ** infantry.

The problem with these army boxes is that it's been confirmed by Rackham Entertainment reps that the paint jobs are going to be of lesser-quality than the already-lackluster unit box releases.

They will have fewer paint aps, less weathering and shading, and the vehicles will not have any of the decals/transfers that made their regular unit box vehicles so cool IMHO.

I mean, you get what you pay for...$61 shipped from The War Store is an insanely-good deal, but I get the feeling that this is a "last ditch" shot to save AT-43 if they're dropping their already-low painting standards.

I'm not liking how quiet RE is being about this change in the painting standards. I was going to purchase a Red Blok box until I heard about this, and then I changed my mind. Sure the Dotch Yaga is in the right colors, but the rest of the paint job is worse than everything else in my RB army?

I'm going to have to do repaints to make the units blend in with my existing units? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of pre-paints?

I think you asre being harsh, all the minis I have seen have been rather good, you need to touch up where the job is less than stellar but that is that.

Dont think of it as repainting but completing the minis, a much smaller job.

Orlanth wrote:I think you asre being harsh, all the minis I have seen have been rather good, you need to touch up where the job is less than stellar but that is that.

Dont think of it as repainting but completing the minis, a much smaller job.

Nono, he meant the upcomming army boxes . Basically the prices are cheaper due to lesser quality painting ( well packaging helps alittle )

The problem with these army boxes is that it's been confirmed by Rackham Entertainment reps that the paint jobs are going to be of lesser-quality than the already-lackluster unit box releases.

They will have fewer paint aps, less weathering and shading, and the vehicles will not have any of the decals/transfers that made their regular unit box vehicles so cool IMHO.

I mean, you get what you pay for...$61 shipped from The War Store is an insanely-good deal, but I get the feeling that this is a "last ditch" shot to save AT-43 if they're dropping their already-low painting standards.

I'm not liking how quiet RE is being about this change in the painting standards. I was going to purchase a Red Blok box until I heard about this, and then I changed my mind. Sure the Dotch Yaga is in the right colors, but the rest of the paint job is worse than everything else in my RB army?

I'm going to have to do repaints to make the units blend in with my existing units? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of pre-paints?

Painting is basic with the boxes, but still miles away from what we usual get to see on gaming tables. Besides, some weathering and inking is a matter of minutes. I don´t see where this is a last ditch effort. Else GW's introductory boxes would also be a last dicht effort.

To call the painting "basic" is to put the best possible light on it. Faces on the unit box releases are a disaster at best, per the AT-43 review I am about to post, and the Army Box toys are going to be worse.

The AT-43 toys will be miles away from the actual models you usually see on gaming tables if you don't play tabletop wargames with the vast majority of wargamers who actually paint their models, this is true...but if you put a minimum amount of time and effort into 40K models, just a basecoat, inking, and drybrush, you will come up with results equal or superior to what the "professionally pre-painted" AT-43 toys will give you.

The fact that you have to do touch-ups on AT-43 toys to get something which isn't wonky speaks volumes on the value of playing a pre-paints game whose point is not to have to paint anything - but this is the price you pay for a pre-paints game. You trade off getting toys instead of models for the convenience of not having to do any work to play the game.

For the target audience of would-be tabletop wargamers who are attracted to AT-43 specifically for the escape from modeling, weathering and and inking are not going to be a matter of minutes because these people don't have the skills to do either of these things. The modelers who play AT-43 and are willing to do touch-ups and repaints aren't the target audience. The target audience is going to have sub-par toys and when they walk into a FLGS to find an opponent, and are faced with minimum-effort 40K models which look gorgeous comparatively...

Americans, by and large, don't care for "lesser-than."

The Army Boxes are a last ditch effort because Rackham Entertainment is practically giving them away. They're probably taking a hit on the cost although they would likely not admit it, and they're accepting a lesser paint quality from their often already very lackluster standards in order to get the army boxes out there.

I think this belies a little desperation, quite frankly. I would guess that the venture capital firm which bought out the old Rackham when it declared bankruptcy in October of 2008 wanted to turn the quickest profit possible, hence the army boxes. Remember, there are actual businesspeople calling the shots over at RE now, and all they care about is profits.

If these Army Boxes fail to expand the player base - the existing base wasn't large enough to support the old company, they certainly aren't going to be large enough to support expanded efforts - then the venture capitalists who bought out Rackham may decide just to cut their losses.

Basically, these Army Boxes are a rolling of the dice which may or may not have come too late.

To compare these Army Boxes to 40K starter kits is ridiculous. GW is the most established, successful gaming company in the world. They can afford to take hits on starter kits, and a percentage of the people who purchase them begin actually modeling and painting and then have emotionally bought into the hobby, and they're hooked. GW are slick businesspeople with multimedia presence and an uncanny ability to generate new gamers, with a HUGE gaming base such that you can get a game of 40K in pretty much anywhere tabletop wargames are played.

To even try to put Rackham Entertainment and GW anywhere in the same league, or even to try to compare RE with Battlefront games, just boggles the mind.

If they are so desperate to expand the player base ,
when are they comming out with UNA army box!

Any pics of these badly painted ones?

There are pics, but not for public distribution. I sincerely hope that the pictures of the toys in the pics are not the actual toys being released, because you could already tell from the infantry toys just what a step down it was, even at a distance of about six or seven feet.

The "five foot rule" is supposed to be the great equalizer in tabletop wargaming...not a distance at which inferior quality is already apparent.

No offence, but if i may ask something thats troubling me ><

If you are close with the devs , shouldnt you be supporting them abit instead of saying all these things that are scarying new players away? >.>

If you arnt close.... PICS PICS PICS!


*edit or show me pic in private message! promise i will delete it after seeing it!

Cairnuis;My god man I really wish you would sell your toys and zip it! You truly have a talent at posting in a very long and annoying manner were ever you go!

LunaHound wrote:No offence, but if i may ask something thats troubling me ><

If you are close with the devs , shouldnt you be supporting them abit instead of saying all these things that are scarying new players away? >.>

If you arnt close.... PICS PICS PICS!


*edit or show me pic in private message! promise i will delete it after seeing it!

No, I'm not close to the devs...but have seen pictures of the packing layout of the new army boxes, and was even treated to a one-step-removed-from-final-edit copy of the upcoming Cogs army book.

I'm providing some objective information about AT-43 because there is very little out there to be found. If you go on the AT-43 forums you mostly get a fan's perspective on the game. Otherwise, it's very difficult to get any up-to-date information on AT-43 and objective reviews of the gameplay which you can readily find with easy Google searches, past some reviews of the Op Damocles set when it first came out which don't reflect the reality of current gameplay, are nonexistent.

Go read my review of the game. It is honest and fair, and absolutely required reading for anyone considering buying into AT-43. Know what you're purchasing - and if it sounds good to you, then by all means jump right in! It's cheap as heck right now...

Unbiased as usual Cairn, AHAHAQHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I am sorry to write this, but somewhere it has to stop.

Cairnius, as a Sentinel you are supposed to support the game and when you became one you agreed to go by the rules.

At the moment you are breaking every rule in the book.

The rules you are supossed to follow are no different from what every other company expects from its support team members.

I leave it to the users of this thread how much trust they put into the comments of someone who with full intent does the opposite of what he agreed to do.

As I said in my Objective Review of AT-43 post, I'm no longer a Sentinel. I haven't been for two days, now, since I gave official notice that I was relinquishing the post. The same lackluster attention Rackham Entertainment pays to their rules design seems to apply to their administration of their official forums...

I joined the Sentinel program to get the inside scoop on the game, got what I wanted, and left like any good gamer doing his research should and would. Once I made up my mind, I had no more use for the program.

Good games sell themselves and demand loyalty. Lackluster games become flashes in the pan of brief interest and then fade away, which is what's happening to AT-43 gameplay across the country. It's there for a while, people lose interest, it's gone. Just like it did for me and the two other members of my wargaming club who bought armies two months ago and have already relegated AT-43 to their storage units in lieu of playing 40K and prepping Flames of War armies.

Go read my review. It says just about everything which needs to be said, and which you cannot find anywhere else because not many people are even talking about the game seriously anymore.

Sorry, you are not that easily off the hook.

Your behaviour is an absolute shame to every supporter who ever supported a game.

Your review is far from objective and rather biased and to top it you break rules that you agreed to follow.

I joined the Sentinel program to get the inside scoop on the game, got what I wanted, and left like any good gamer doing his research should and would. Once I made up my mind, I had no more use for the program.

I really can't find words to describe the way I feel reading this. It´s really sad.

Corporate loyalty is one thing, but from what I hear Sentinels are unpaid volunteers, to go from supporting to 'bad mouthing' a company in two days sounds a bit much; agreed - and it makes me wonder if there isnt a personal issue behind Cairnius' words. However this is an independant forum and if someone wants to knock a game system or call its desgners cretins he would be in good company. i for one would be a total hypocrite to shout Caitnius down after what I have been on record to say about what I think of GW studio designers. I havent really started yet and already seen some flaws with At-43, and wont be slow to comment on them if i feel like it. Then I do have an eye for game mechanics and can spot such things early anyway, and over all what I see of this game is good.

Bottom line Rackham are trying a good line at a good time, and have some quality product. They also have issues, and I am not talking about the comapny name or rep but issues with At-43 availability marketing and pricing, and even with some rules. But I am not offput by this, it is obvious to me at least that there is a neat little gem here and now is the time to get in.

I am sad here too, mainly because outside of this window I would not be here with AT-43 it is just completely out of my price band as a game. Now with three large armies planned I coulafford a full rpice unit or two once in a while if needs be, especially if my forces get bolstered by loss leader Army Boxes. However despite all this i consider this game to have a far better ruleset than 40K and can easily see myself playing far more of this than I play any other tabletop miniature game. Not that I am ever likely to give up 40K or Warmachine just for this.

Well i guess that sort of shows the kind of character a person is and their values...

But that aside no matter what happens to AT-43 it doesnt matter for me, I love the minis!
The only thing that would bother me is if they did a 95% off sale lol ( after my orders)

Anyways.... Orlanth can you tell me abit about what the step was from paying miniature market?
They replied:

As far as repackaging you next order, yes we do that for several of our International customers a
nd we can for you also. But, we do have a labor charge of $.50-$1 per box set. I don't have an estimate on how much it will save.

If you want us to repackage on you next order, please indicate in the customer notes section that you want us to break down
the packaging to save on shipping costs. I will notify you once we process the order how much the surcharge for labor was,
so you know how much your credit card will be charged or how much we need you to send additional through PayPal.

I dont understand , say the website automatically charge me the $60 shipping fee , and they'll charge me the repackage fee again through paypal?

Then where in the steps listed do they refund the actual saved shipping amount from repackaging?

Ok, first thing to learn here. I got EXACTLY the same wording in the email reply to me, so the company has a macro that they insert in every reply where this is mentioned. Thus you are tapping into a standard procedure for them.

Now how irt actuially works is anyones guess, I wont add to that. This is how I intend to try.

1. Fill 'my shopping cart'.

2. Press update totals.
You cannot press Estimate Shipping as you have no Zip code.

3. Mouse select/Copy/paste your shopping list into an email. Here is a sample with random junk in it:

Product Qty. Price Total

War at Sea Flank Speed Booster Pack (Preorder)

$9.75 $ 9.75

Infinity Djanbazan Tactical Group (HMG) (1)

$8.93 $ 8.93

Star Trek 2nd CCG Second Edition Combo Box

$15.00 $ 15.00
Sub Total $ 33.68


Zip Code:


4. In the rest of the email ask them how to order, its best to do so with the order shown in the email, as they will be more inclined to help with an event than a theory. They might input the order for you onto their computers and give you an email invoice, they might input the order and tell you how much they want to charge you etc. You will have to pay that by Paypal. Alternately ask of you should do this:

5. If they do the latter probably what they will ask you to do is to put Minitures Market down as the recipient of the shipping address, remember the billing address and shipping address can be different. Write in the notes as asked that you want depackaging and a fresh shipping quote to the billing address. This way they bill you through the comopany system for ther goods and through Paypal for the shipping and depackaging. I cannot see any other way to do what they ask i.e. order and include notes without having to pay up front the entire fully packaged shipping costs. This is the only way your instructions tally with how their ordering system works. I would NOT try this without first talking to the company.

I would prefer to send them the shopping list in an email (point4), say you cannot complete the order without initiating full billing and leqave it to them to invoice you through your email. If you look at the FAQ you will see this bottom of the six bullet points lists:

* How much is international shipping?
Our international shipping is based on the total weight of your order. You will need you to fill up your shopping cart on our website and proceed to checkout for a real time shipping quote. We use the United States Postal Service (usps.com) for all of our international shipping. The two options we offer is International First Class Mail (available for orders under 3 lbs) and Priority International Mail (available on all international orders).


Interesting, so for a standard order, pay for it if the 'real time shipping quote' is incorrect you will be invoiced for ther reminder. In companyspeak also implies that if the quote was too high they likely wont. The fact that they want to bill you handling while recalculating shipping does not bode well either, you need to get the estimated shipping really slashed to get any headway so any billing estimater should be suitably low, after all the minis are plastc packed in large amounts of plastic and cardboard so on weight alone your shipping would be much lower, also more importantly while MM charge you besed on weight shipping actually works on volume, especially when you try to fit Initiation sets into USPS standard size boxes.

Take a look at this:

http://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10152&storeId=10001&categoryId=13356&productId=11697&langId=-1&WT.ac=11697

These are the standard USPS boxes, you estimate how many of these will your depackaged minis and books, remember the books fill, note how there is a set shipping cost attached to the box. Do you own estimation and then add $1 per boxset. This should give you a rough indication of how much shipping you will be needing to pay. Of course insurance adds to that but you have a quote for packaging already.

I have 0 idea how big a democle box is. But from the picture i estimate , each of that Box can only hold 3-4 democle sets. This will make perfect sense of adding 3 sets will bump it up to $60 ( sounds like Box #2 )

I have emailed them with the question and have not received any answer. Its friday ( too late for shipping anyways i think ) So i'll wait till monday to see if they have responded.

If nothing is taken care of on monday , I will copy paste the full order including the service fee for repacking the 3 demo sets and ask them to send a total bill?

The postal code doesnt effect canadian customers , i have purchased them twice before, and the weight seem to match the shipping fee fairly and i can say perfectly.
So that part i trust them 100%

Arnt you worried at all about them shipped without the protective casings? The limbs and spikes on the Therian might run into trouble ><

Normally i would be happy to just match the size and get a perfect order with perfect fit. ( the pic is $33 shipping ) But this time i cant.

Well, I didn't think I'd sign up to Dakka for that kind of reason. Still, it's as good as any time to, so...

Cairnius wrote:I joined the Sentinel program to get the inside scoop on the game, got what I wanted, and left like any good gamer doing his research should and would. Once I made up my mind, I had no more use for the program.

You, good sir, are a slick devil. That's a truly machiavellian plan

Good games sell themselves and demand loyalty.

A bold claim, considering the number of games that have been released in the past 30 years and then gone into limbo. I'd wager there were more good games than just W40K and Warhammer in the lot, and yet, they're the only ones that can claim even just 10 years of age. Not that it really matters on this subject anyway. Is everything perfect with AT-43? Probably not, or Rackham wouldn't have met with the problems they've had in recent months. Do we think it is ? Nossir, that's the whole reason changes are being brought to the game. Pricing, and the perceived cost of entering the game, has been reported consistantly as a problem, hence the concept of army boxes. Does that make the game bad? Certainly not. It did, for that matter, sell pretty well in the US for some time, and more than "two or three months" if I might add, before the release plan derailed and hurt general interest bad. Can it please everyone ? No. Neither can W40k or Flames of war, for that matter. Doesn't make them bad games either

Go read my review. It says just about everything which needs to be said,

Woah, I take it back, now that's a bold claim I certainly wouldn't call it comprehensive, nor objective or unbiased for that matter. It's a pretty good summary of "why I liked W40k and not AT-43", but as for objective, it's as objective as anything on the web that claims to be, which is not much. Doesn't mean it's uninteresting (well except for all the patronizing of course), there certainly are people out there that will feel like you and learn something from it. Everyone is perfectly entitled to their own opinions after all

The limbs and spikes on the Therian might run into trouble

Don´t worry about the spikes on the infantry, miniatures are made of slightly soft plastic that allows some bending. Once even someone marched accidently over a Storm Golem and all we had to do was bending him back under some hot water. Also, if parts are slightly bend out of shape, just hold the minature under hot water, bend it into position, hold it and immediately put it into cold water. Repeat if necessary.

It was a really good idea using this kind of plastic. Especially when I recall the horror of transporting Dark Eldar.

Well said Orlanth.

Edit: wow, how did my post end up so far from reply at 2009/05/15 01:59:55?

LunaHound wrote:

Ok for a starrt that is not an USPS box. The box dimensions for set price shipping are 11"x8.5"x5.5". The boc you picture is much larger.

Next the packaging is so bloat you could stuff twelve tac arms in bubble wrap in one tac arm box. I think you would be able to fit more than that with impunity. Even if you retained some packaging ,i.e. cut out the trio of miniatures in their plastic sheath and stacked the minimalised packing you will still save two thirds of the volume minimum.

@ Orlanth , i know thats not UPS box, it has Rhkham logo stamped on it >.< just saying they sent it using that.

Btw, it used to be MM will tell us if they'll receive new re stocks for AT-43 ( even the clearance items )

They havnt done that for awhile, does that mean after this batch is gone, no more on sale?

On the packaging front, isn't Rackham redoing their box packages so there isn't so much wasted space? That seems like a good thing for the entire fulfillment chain and environment.

Yes, there is a major redesign which starts with the army boxes.

Boxes have already become smaller over the last year, but not to that much.

They have no choice EU packaging laws are coming into affect, but they should never have boxed this way to begin with. Yes they are supposed to have a high shefl profile but retailers dont like stock that takes up excessive amounts of shelf space, and internet retailers dont like shipping costs as many have to compete by offering free shipping.
Also plastic windowed boxes with stiffening layers of thick cardboard etc, this all mounts up in costs.

Bottom line, the current style of packaging was a brainfart to begin with.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:Sorry, you are not that easily off the hook.

You're assuming I was ever on a "hook" to begin with!

Don't feel sad...I did what anyone who wants to write a story does. I went and got the information from every source I could. At least you're getting some P.R. from it all over the internet, and if my published review inspires a bunch of people to look at AT-43 for themselves you could wind up getting more players than you might have otherwise without the impetus for people to look.

It was a decidedly-mocking review of the Space Gorillas which got ME to look into AT-43 in the first place...

In terms of objective, I neither bashed nor lauded. I simply described things as they actually are. You will find no such information elsewhere because the only people talking about AT-43 online tend to be fans, and therefore are a thousand times more biased as you might like to think I am being.

And the people who actually bash don’t even attempt to say why, they just bash Rackham because it’s easy to do so…I’m certainly not in that category either, not by a long shot.

Orlanth wrote:Corporate loyalty is one thing, but from what I hear Sentinels are unpaid volunteers, to go from supporting to 'bad mouthing' a company in two days sounds a bit much; agreed - and it makes me wonder if there isnt a personal issue behind Cairnius' words.

A fair question, Orlanth.

Take this for what it is worth: no, there’s nothing personal here, any more than there is anything personal when I write a review for a film, or a book, or a video game. The fun is in the review.

Someone on Warseer asked if I was angry that I had spent $1,000 on AT-43 and was disappointed, I think is how he asked, but I’ll tell you what I told him: $1,000 may not be to me what it is to someone else. I’m a tabletop wargamer, used to spending obscene amounts of money on games like this as a matter of course. I made peace with the possible repercussions of these purchases (not being able to find anyone to play the game with, mostly) the day I made said purchases.

Sentinels are, in effect, enthusiastic players of AT-43, nothing more. Some of them produce content, some of them do demos at games, others never reported really doing anything. It's more a way for people who are really into the game to exchange ideas and keep track of what's going on to report the info to other AT-43 gamers.

I entirely immersed myself in AT-43 for a few months with EXTREME enthusiasm so I could learn as much as I possibly could at as rapid a pace as I could, so I was, effectively, a Sentinel when I asked to join, and I informed them as to my giving up the post the moment I decided I no longer fit the bill.

I just wish the moderators on the forum had conveyed that information to the Sentinels sooner so they understood what was going on out here.

If it sounds like an objective review is “bad mouthing,” so be it. I don’t think respectfully expressing an opinion of what you see around you, and what you’ve experienced, is “bad mouthing.” I would have omitted the props I did give AT-43, and will continue to do so where warranted, or pointed people in the direction of some of the gaming aids which they otherwise might never have found on their own and which could markedly improve their AT-43 experience, in my review if I just wanted to bad mouth the company.

If a fan thinks their game is solid, they have absolutely nothing to fear from someone expressing an opinion to the contrary. The AT-43 fans are probably well-advised not to overreact to one person’s opinion.


@ Martin:

Most anyone wanting to write a good article is a slick devil. *grin*

I honestly did try to be objective in my review. I’ve posted follow-ups which didn’t really belong in said review to say that I don’t hate AT-43, and may continue to play it – but those are inappropriate observations to make in an attempt to objectively provide information to an audience who otherwise have no access to that information.

I may have actually done you a favor, perhaps, by inspiring some impassioned debates on the subject and showing your potential customers that you supporters ARE out there. I personally think you all are way too quiet about your enthusiasm for the game. If you were on forums like this more often talking about the game, strategies, battle reports, etc., you could fill the P.R. gap which Rackham Enterainment continues to not address adequately IMHO.

In terms of changes to the game, IMHO the Army Boxes are a very important step, but the next step HAS to be the rules, Martin. Unless you have wireless internet access at your FLGS when you’re trying to learn AT-43, or else you have a seasoned veteran of the game with you to inform you as to recent rulings on the website, you’re either learning the game wrong, not playing it right, or just can’t figure things out at one point or another.

The AT-43 rules, like I said, are horrible in execution but NOT in theory. I don’t think you can wait until 2012 to clear up the rules, nor should you. If they’re only basic rules we’re talking about, new armies being released aren’t going to require changes to said basic rules as they’ll be bound by the same basic rules as all the armies which came before, and which will come after – especially if you have no intention of changing those rules before all the armies are released, right?

Don't feel sad...I did what anyone who wants to write a story does.

As a journalist (besides being a professional translator) I can tell you that there is a fine line between investigative and plain sensational journalism. You definitely crossed it with distributing false information about the financial situation of Rackham.

As I said in another thread - if you have evidence to suggest that Rackham was not in financial trouble not too long ago, and that they really don't need this Army Box initiative to be successful and that AT-43 as a game will be in fine shape if it does not achieve the desired result, then by all means provide said information. There is more than enough evidence to back my argument. Provide evidence to the contrary if you can, by all means. Rackham will thank you for it.

One could also point to the utter conflagration that was the Confrontation switchover to illustrate that Rackham seems to have a bad habit of not understanding the wargaming crowd. If you wish to deny that this took place, feel free...but again, there is plenty of evidence to back my statement.

If you cannot...probably best not to overreact to one person's opinion. General rule of thumb: the more you respond strongly to an argument which you consider false, the more you validate the argument. Else why would you bother responding if the argument was false rather than producing a counterpoint?

"I respect your opinion but strongly disagree, because [information]."

That's your best bet to respond to an opinion with which you strongly disagree. Lambasting the expression of said opinion at best says that you don't have anything to refute the argument, and at worst validates the potential validity of the argument that you're not refuting.