This box set contains 10 multi-part plastic Cadian Shock Troops, and includes: five leg variants, seven head variants, 10 lasguns, two chainswords, two laspistols, two grenade launchers, two flamers and two Vox-casters. Also included are a host of additional components allowing you to assemble a Sergeant and personalise your squad. Models supplied with 25mm round bases.


This box set contains 10 multi-part plastic Catachan Jungle Troops, and includes: five leg variants, five variant bodies, seven head variants, 10 lasguns, two laspistols, two flamers, two Vox-casters, and a selection of bladed weapons. Also included are a host of additional components allowing you to assemble a Sergeant and personalise your squad. Models supplied with 25mm round bases.

Also, the box art once more features the flying gothic building, could this be an upcoming Planet Strike kit where the Imperial Guard can dump STC bunkers into the area?

Also: a lot of metals are back in the store along with the original Last Chancers boxed set, Macharius (!), Iron Hand Straken, Marbo, AL'rahem and Marbo.

well hell, you get two Voxes, GL, flamers, chainswords and all those extra bits! no wonder they halved it to 10 men and raised the price. you can't have too much goodness in 1 box. it's not like it's Christmas or anything!

Almost makes me excited, and then I realize I hate the pistol/sword sergeants, and the voxes are worthless.

alarmingrick wrote:well hell, you get two Voxes, GL, flamers, chainswords and all those extra bits! no wonder they halved it to 10 men and raised the price. you can't have too much goodness in 1 box. it's not like it's Christmas or anything!

Please tell me you're joking. Sometimes it's hard to tell over the internet.

The best part about this is... er... Can I get back to you?

I'd complain, and then I remembered I have over 200 painted metal Praetorians, plus another 100 catachans and tallarn already.

I do feel bad for anybody building an IG army now... it was pricey 5 years ago but it's stupid expensive now.

Scottywan82 wrote:Almost makes me excited, and then I realize I hate the pistol/sword sergeants, and the voxes are worthless.

In regular games sure. But I intend to give voxes to all of my infantry squads when playing Apocalypse. I´ll make sure my opponents understand that they bloody well better kill them dead when they engage them. Because otherwise the surviving vox-operator is a prime candidate for a posthumous citation of gallantry. "Fire on my coordinates!". Accept no substitutes .

I was half expecting them to bring back the old Exterminator and Grifon hybrids, or at the very least conversion packs, but alas.

Scottywan82 wrote:Almost makes me excited, and then I realize I hate the pistol/sword sergeants, and the voxes are worthless.

Well that's unfortunate, because having a pistol/sword on your sergeant is mandatory in the new book.

Yeah, that's what I hate.

C'mon guys, sergeants have only had the option of taking a lasgun since the Black Codex in 2nd edition, so it's not like we've had that option for a while or anything....

According to the GW site sergeants can still take a lasgun or shotgun instead.

Yes, "on my coordinates!" is the coolest thing the guard get in Apoc! I love it...especially on deep striking suicide squads!

Aw hell, I still can't get over how *terrible* Catachans look, too heavily muscled, underarmored, poorly detailed, and they look like they were stuck in a microwave and pulled out barely before they started to melt and look goopy as a result.

Why does GW insist on maintaining that range, especially in it's current state?




Either way, that both these sets are now 10man for $22, it makes IG armies much more expensive.

@Raxmei
so totally and completely kidding!!

BrookM wrote:According to the GW site sergeants can still take a lasgun or shotgun instead.

I think you're being snarky, but what do you mean by this?

Scottywan82 wrote:

BrookM wrote:According to the GW site sergeants can still take a lasgun or shotgun instead.

I think you're being snarky, but what do you mean by this?

That I'm just stating what the GW site lists? Or should I just delete my account here and hang myself?

BrookM wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:

BrookM wrote:According to the GW site sergeants can still take a lasgun or shotgun instead.

I think you're being snarky, but what do you mean by this?

That I'm just stating what the GW site lists? Or should I just delete my account here and hang myself?

I'm guessing he was asking "what GW site? Where on that site, and in what context? Can you provide a url?"

I don't know what where your hostility stems from, but it's a little odd.

Are those giant Catachan arms big enough to be used as Ork arms?

Polonius wrote:

BrookM wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:

BrookM wrote:According to the GW site sergeants can still take a lasgun or shotgun instead.

I think you're being snarky, but what do you mean by this?

That I'm just stating what the GW site lists? Or should I just delete my account here and hang myself?

I'm guessing he was asking "what GW site? Where on that site, and in what context? Can you provide a url?"

I don't know what where your hostility stems from, but it's a little odd.

You tell me what ticks the people off around here, they like sending these angry letters to me asking me to go away. Must be my old sig. That and my remark about the constant nagging about the upcoming codex. /sigh

Anyway, I saw this on the GW site while browsing through the troop choices. When you select a squad boxed set and scroll down you get a summary of the unit, this includes stat lines, weapon options and special rules. GW is performing maintenance right now on their site (again) otherwise I'd pull up the relevant page.

edit.

Unit Composition: Sergeant and 9 Guardsmen.
Unit Type: Infantry.
War Gear: Sergeant: Laspistol and close combat weapon or a shotgun or a lasgun. Guardsmen: Lasguns.

Unit Composition: Sergeant and 9 Guardsmen.
Unit Type: Infantry.
War Gear: Sergeant: Laspistol and close combat weapon or a shotgun or a lasgun. Guardsmen: Lasguns.

This is indeed what IG infantry sergeants can currently use. The website hasn't updated to the new rules yet, which makes sense considering they haven't been released yet.

BrookM wrote:

Polonius wrote:

BrookM wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:

BrookM wrote:According to the GW site sergeants can still take a lasgun or shotgun instead.

I think you're being snarky, but what do you mean by this?

That I'm just stating what the GW site lists? Or should I just delete my account here and hang myself?

I'm guessing he was asking "what GW site? Where on that site, and in what context? Can you provide a url?"

I don't know what where your hostility stems from, but it's a little odd.

You tell me what ticks the people off around here, they like sending these angry letters to me asking me to go away. Must be my old sig. That and my remark about the constant nagging about the upcoming codex. /sigh

Anyway, I saw this on the GW site while browsing through the troop choices. When you select a squad boxed set and scroll down you get a summary of the unit, this includes stat lines, weapon options and special rules. GW is performing maintenance right now on their site (again) otherwise I'd pull up the relevant page.

edit.

Unit Composition: Sergeant and 9 Guardsmen.
Unit Type: Infantry.
War Gear: Sergeant: Laspistol and close combat weapon or a shotgun or a lasgun. Guardsmen: Lasguns.

Got it, so it hasn't been updated for the new codex is all then. I was just curious, no need to go all crazy.

A thousand apologies for being snappish.

edit.

NOT sarcasm.

so does it cost more than the original 20???

From what I heard, yes. In the other thread some people did the math.

I have a question, its semi off topic ish.

The plastic Cadians have 1 head variant ( i believe the very far right side one ) The helmet is very crooked on the face.

Was wondering why is it like that.

LunaHound wrote:I have a question, its semi off topic ish.

The plastic Cadians have 1 head variant ( i believe the very far right side one ) The helmet is very crooked on the face.

Was wondering why is it like that.

That guy has his chin strap undone.

ricekake87 wrote:so does it cost more than the original 20???

9 dollars more for 20.

Each guardsman costs an additional $0.45!!!

Certainly worthy of internet ranting

LunaHound wrote:I have a question, its semi off topic ish.

The plastic Cadians have 1 head variant ( i believe the very far right side one ) The helmet is very crooked on the face.

Was wondering why is it like that.

He thinks he's too good for chin straps. I hate that head but I don't have enough of the others to avoid using it. If you look closely at the other heads you will note that they have slightly different facial expressions. That allows them to say there are seven different head options.

The Catachans just look more off the wall the more I look at them. The muscles are mind-boggling, but the shirtless chest is really what does it.

Seriously though, are those muscle bound Catachan parts (arms particularly) big enough to be slapped on an Ork boys body?

I'm really curious.

Well, Catachans do fit the background description "mini ogryn" with those designs.

Lagduf wrote:Seriously though, are those muscle bound Catachan parts (arms particularly) big enough to be slapped on an Ork boys body?

I'm really curious.

No, ork is still bigger compare to catachan standards.

It'll have the same ratio look like catachan arms on cadian body

( i know this cuz i have some unfortunate victims lol )

So I guess the rumour that said the 10 man boxes would contain a heavy weapon team was wrong then? I feel incredibly cheated by this development. A guard army consists largely of infantry squads,at least mine does, and it looks to me like GW fixed the rules so that basic guardsmen cost fewer points,and are now being fielded in larger numbers, and at the same time jacked the actual money cost per soldier way up! Dirty,if you ask me. I would be willing to pay maybe a 5 or 10 cent per figure hike, but 50 cents per is criminal! This is the sort of thing that realy makes me ask myself whether I want to continue collecting, or just sell my minis and take up knitting.

Yep its cheated compared to the previoud 20men box.

However, people argued that the 20men was too cheap to start with. Now they claimed it to be balanced.


-_- .....

"...people argued that the 20men was too cheap to start with. Now they claimed it to be balanced."
who ever said that must be punished at once! i think it was priced correctly before the "new" reboxing.

Who the hell said 20 man boxes were too cheap?!? I pay $35 american for 20 men, thats $1.75 per figure, whitch I feel to be too high to begin with. Takeing it above $2.00 a figure, for plastics, is lunacy. If you weighed the contents of these boxes, I think you'de find that gram for gram, cocaine probably costs less!

This cost of troop is why I'll never get to moving past my veteran/storm trooper/vehicle heavy army. *sigh* The most valuable asset for the IG is just too expensive. A pretty minimal platoon costs over $100 USD... well $95 if you get the battle force and ends up being worth 200pts, that's $1 for every two points. Should I be excited by the prospect of a $1000 army (FW aside)?

*snort* trust me Gil, it does *snort*
(and for the love of God, yes, i'm kidding!!!)
and seriously, you should shop around. you should be able to find them cheaper than that. i can get them from the U.K. cheaper than that, shipped. and that's not even using Maelstrom Games.

The price hike on the troops is outragious! I think GW is hoping to cash in on the the appeal of the new codex but they may get bitten. I would have happilly shelled out te money they wanted for some cool looking trenchcoated figs, but not for the same old junk. I just can't get excited into paying 36% more per fig for the same thing.

alarmingrick wrote:*snort* trust me Gil, it does *snort*
(and for the love of God, yes, i'm kidding!!!)
and seriously, you should shop around. you should be able to find them cheaper than that. i can get them from the U.K. cheaper than that, shipped. and that's not even using Maelstrom Games.

I understand that the discount stores makes our purchase price more tolerable.

But that still doesnt excuse what the MSRP GW have the audacity to come up with.

I think they would like get to the point where we pay a dollar per point, so an 1800 point army would cost $1800. Lets hope they dont decide to base points on the British pound, it exchanges at almost 2 dollars!

Polonius wrote:I'd complain, and then I remembered I have over 200 painted metal Praetorians, plus another 100 catachans and tallarn already.

I do feel bad for anybody building an IG army now... it was pricey 5 years ago but it's stupid expensive now.

Yeah, who has two thumbs and bought a ton of 20 man boxes 2 months ago like it was going out of style (...cause it was)....

THIS GUY

818.37 O_o

alarmingrick wrote:*snort* trust me Gil, it does *snort*
(and for the love of God, yes, i'm kidding!!!)
and seriously, you should shop around. you should be able to find them cheaper than that. i can get them from the U.K. cheaper than that, shipped. and that's not even using Maelstrom Games.

Maybe when I quit gameing, I could take up drug dealing. I'm sure its as glamoures as it looks on tv and in rap videos; and, hey!, If I deal drugs I will be able to afford minis again! So I won't have to quit playing after all! Thanks for the idea rick! (when the cops kick down my door I will be sure to tell them whose idea it was). All kidding aside, I appreciate the tip on mealstrom, I just checked them out, and you were right, much better prices!

LunaHound wrote:

Lagduf wrote:Seriously though, are those muscle bound Catachan parts (arms particularly) big enough to be slapped on an Ork boys body?

I'm really curious.

No, ork is still bigger compare to catachan standards.

It'll have the same ratio look like catachan arms on cadian body

( i know this cuz i have some unfortunate victims lol )

Cool, thanks.

I wasn't sure. I have no IG stuff and only know one guy who plays IG and he doesn't use Catachans.

Ok i'll take photo of it.... dont laugh as i said its failed lol

It wouldn't have been so bad if they threw in some plasma/meltaguns

Pretty awful right?

gil gerard wrote:I feel incredibly cheated by this development. A guard army consists largely of infantry squads,at least mine does, and it looks to me like GW fixed the rules so that basic guardsmen cost fewer points,and are now being fielded in larger numbers, and at the same time jacked the actual money cost per soldier way up! Dirty,if you ask me.

Welcome to economics in an economic decline.

So, I'm guessing the "personalize your squad" part refers to the canteens, knives, and ammo pouches?

ph34r wrote:So, I'm guessing the "personalize your squad" part refers to the canteens, knives, and ammo pouches?

Don't forget the grenades.

and 1 of 7 head variants to chose from!! Wee!

So after reading this whole thread and looking at the website, I can see absolutely nothing different about the cadian boxed set. Am I missing something?

I'd have to say that I do love the new sentinel. All the weapon options and still basically the same price, right?

There's a reason you can take 9 Leman Russ tanks now.

Polonius wrote:I'd complain, and then I remembered I have over 200 painted metal Praetorians, plus another 100 catachans and tallarn already.

I do feel bad for anybody building an IG army now... it was pricey 5 years ago but it's stupid expensive now.

Tell that to the guy who collects a Krieg army. ^______________^

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:So after reading this whole thread and looking at the website, I can see absolutely nothing different about the cadian boxed set. Am I missing something?

The only thing to get is that it now costs $22 instead of $35, and has 10 models instead of 20. A 25% increase in cost per model.

Anyone got pics of the supposed gas-mask heads in the box yet?

There are a few gas mask attachments on the command squad sprue, but nothing suggesting that they are adding them to the "new" cadian trooper box.

o_- ? gas mask? I thought the set is just half the content of previous box, with absolutely nothing else different.

LunaHound wrote:o_- ? gas mask? I thought the set is just half the content of previous box, with absolutely nothing else different.

They found out that you could just say that the cadian torso and arms were what flak armor looked like then customize the legs and heads to form all of the different regiments. Five different leg variations and seven head variations - you can do cadian tunics, steel legion coats, valhallan bigger coats, krieg funny looking coats with all of the buttons, and elysian jumpsuits. For heads you have the cadian tridome football helmet, mordian caps, valhallan ushankas, vostroyan bearskin, steel legian gas mask with helmet, tallarn head wraps, and that crazy helmet elysians wear.

Yes it seems that Guard are getting more expensive.
But for those who started with the 10-man metals, its still a hell of a lot cheaper.
And the metals had the exact same 10 poses in every box. At least Cadians did.

Looks like Battleforces and discount online shops is the only way to go for guard.
Unless you already have them.
I am dissapointed thye didn't use this release as opportunity to do what they did with the Ork Boys sprue.


I don't get the constant bitching about prices. Its GW. They have never been cheap, and they never will be.
If you don't like their prices, look around at the other stuff available.
Warmachine is expensive.
Flames of War is expensive.
Perry Miniatures, Wargames Foundry, and Warlord Miniatures are all expensive.
Wargames Factory is cheaper, but you see why in the quality.
The only cheap minis are historicals, and you need at least double the numbers for those games.
The costs even out if you really look at the wargame hobby, not just GW.
The cheap stuff is always either a little wonky, or doesn't quite fit the look that GW has created.

Raxmei wrote:

LunaHound wrote:o_- ? gas mask? I thought the set is just half the content of previous box, with absolutely nothing else different.

They found out that you could just say that the cadian torso and arms were what flak armor looked like then customize the legs and heads to form all of the different regiments. Five different leg variations and seven head variations - you can do cadian tunics, steel legion coats, valhallan bigger coats, krieg funny looking coats with all of the buttons, and elysian jumpsuits. For heads you have the cadian tridome football helmet, mordian caps, valhallan ushankas, vostroyan bearskin, steel legian gas mask with helmet, tallarn head wraps, and that crazy helmet elysians wear.

...What? Not only are they definitely not doing that, but if they did do that it would suck because you would need to buy 7 times as many boxes to get a squad of guard that don't look completely different.

skrulnik wrote:
If you don't like their prices, look around at the other stuff available.
Warmachine is expensive.
Flames of War is expensive.
Perry Miniatures, Wargames Foundry, and Warlord Miniatures are all expensive.
Wargames Factory is cheaper, but you see why in the quality.

Your comparison is, I feel, off the mark. Warlord Games ECW infantry costs £18 for 40. Perrys' ACW infantry cost £15 for 36. Wargames Factory Celts cost £13.60 for 32. Given the immense variability between the model needs of different historical games, the only universal benchmark is £ per head. I omitted FoW and Foundry here because one is a game with a very different scale, and the other deals exclusively in metals, so comparisons to GW (who deals mostly in plastics, after all) are of limited usefulness. Warmachine and Hordes simply are hellishly expensive games.

To say that historical games are more expensive because you need lots of infantry is ignoring the fact that 40k (and Fantasy) armies typically are composed of more than just line infantry, and those other sets (elite troops, vehicles, etc) typically have an even worse cash-for-miniatures ratio.

Games Workshop's pricing in this instance is indefensible, doubly so if the rumored 25% price increase goes into effect in June.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Your comparison is, I feel, off the mark. Warlord Games ECW infantry costs £18 for 40. Perrys' ACW infantry cost £15 for 36. Wargames Factory Celts cost £13.60 for 32. Given the immense variability between the model needs of different historical games, the only universal benchmark is £ per head. I omitted FoW and Foundry here because one is a game with a very different scale, and the other deals exclusively in metals, so comparisons to GW (who deals mostly in plastics, after all) are of limited usefulness. Warmachine and Hordes simply are hellishly expensive games.

To say that historical games are more expensive because you need lots of infantry is ignoring the fact that 40k (and Fantasy) armies typically are composed of more than just line infantry, and those other sets (elite troops, vehicles, etc) typically have an even worse cash-for-miniatures ratio.

Games Workshop's pricing in this instance is indefensible, doubly so if the rumored 25% price increase goes into effect in June.

My price comparison is based on how much cash you drop for a useable army. For most game systems, I have found that $200-$500 is the range, including FoW. In building armies for the new Field of Glory game, I dropped close to $300 for metals and plastics for 28mm Celts. Also, Artillery and Cavalry for historicals are mcuh more expensive than the troops. For the same reasons as GWs stuff. Each player needs less of them.

I am not defending GW's prices. Just pointing out that they are the model for the industry, not a rogue that is just out to gouge us.

For historical stuff, the new plastics are not that much cheaper than the metals.
But the plastics are priced because of competition, not because of material costs.
The GW universe has no such competition for like figures.

If you would like to continue this discussion, maybe a new topic in Discussions would be a good idea?

More objectionable than the level of GW prices are their continual increases, though. Whether they be expensive re-packagings or their regularly scheduled "adjustments", the fact remains, prices are going up. Plastic Cadians used to be £15 for 20 a few years back, now we're in risk of them going to £15 for 10, and there's no sign of them stopping. Meanwhile, other companies are either remaining at status quo or even lowering prices (which is what Reaper did in response to the economy).

Until we start seeing constant and widespread raises from other plastic miniatures companies, I do not accept the claim that GW is just "one of the boys".

Well, honestly, you're still buying. Why do you think they made this codex so powerful, gotta buy more to get that power.

Honestly, I'd take a hit to quality and most likely pickup the upcoming wargames factory scifi infantry. While the quality is great from GW, the designs have been getting worse, yet more expensive.

Well, I'm not buying line infantry anymore, instead I'll refurbish some of the old ones I still have lying around. The new Codex, yes, possibly a command squad, probably not a Valkyrie, definitely not a Primaris or the Ratings.

Out of interest, are they gonna release Penal colony guys??? Or sill we have to make a trip to the modeling room???

Penal troops aren't likely going to be a hugely popular unit, so the best way to model them will likely be a conversion of some sort. Bare heads, rag-tag equipment and cruel-looking close combat weaponry would fit the bill, as well as an officious-looking Custodian.

IMO, the old Mordian Sergeant would be ideal, wearing a dress uniform and harassing around 9 lasgun guys from whatever Necromunda range you most enjoy, with maybe some Catachans or a ragged Cadian thrown in.

An alternative would be the old Rogue Trader era Imperial Guardsmen, you could easily paint their rather plain uniforms in convict style, either a drab grey or high-vis orange, depending on how merciful their commanding officer is.

To the modeling room!

BrookM wrote:Also: a lot of metals are back in the store along with the original Last Chancers boxed set, Macharius (!), Iron Hand Straken, Marbo, AL'rahem and Marbo.

So awesome, Marbo had to be re-released TWICE.

Not Chenkov?

ricekake87 wrote:so does it cost more than the original 20???

It used to be 20 for $35. Now it is $22 for 10.

So yes, it is now $44 for 20 Guardsmen, an increase of around 25%.

HERESY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

H.B.M.C. wrote:Not Chenkov?

Chenkov is there as well, only the model is sold under the name "Imperial Guard Valhallan Officer with Power weapon", Al'Rahem is sold with another Tallarn officer as a pack, I believe the one with the bolter.

skrulnik wrote:
My price comparison is based on how much cash you drop for a useable army. For most game systems, I have found that $200-$500 is the range, including FoW. In building armies for the new Field of Glory game, I dropped close to $300 for metals and plastics for 28mm Celts. Also, Artillery and Cavalry for historicals are mcuh more expensive than the troops. For the same reasons as GWs stuff. Each player needs less of them.

I think IG are going to cost a small fortune compared even to other horde armies. A basic squad with lascannon plasma costs roughly $35.50 (7.50 for plasma, $2.2 a lasgunner x7, and 11.6 per heavy team). That's a core unit that's only 85pts. The same squad with Autocannon and Grenade Launcher is $29.20 for 65pts. Compare those to Ork squads, where a 10 boy mob with any wargear you can imagine comes out to... $22, because it's all in the box! A 30 boy mob is $66 and 235pts, or 3.5pts/$. A marine tactical squad with multi-melta, melta gun, powerfist and Razorback is 250pts and ~$79 ($35 for tac box, $35 for razorback, $9 metal Multi-melta, and a bummed fist), for 3.16 pts/$. At the rumored pts values, an IG platoon with PCS w/4 meltas and chimera, squad with AC/GL and squad with LC/P is 275pts, and costs ~$129.7 ($35.50 for las/plas, $29.20 for AC/gl, $35 for chimera, a converted LT and four meltas at $7.50 each) for 2.12 pts/$.

Add in the fact that even the IG's big ticket stuff isn't that point dense ($58 valks are 130pts, or 2.24 pts/$ compared to 4.8pts/$ for landraiders) and the IG are simply one of the most expensive armies to build. Part of that is the nature of the beast, but part of that is the way the sprues and boxes were set up.

Shep wrote:

ricekake87 wrote:so does it cost more than the original 20???

9 dollars more for 20.

Each guardsman costs an additional $0.45!!!

Certainly worthy of internet ranting

$35 => $44 is a 33% hike.

Even better. In 1999 the same 20 Cats cost you $22, now they cost you $44. that's 10% inflation a year.

Must be the price of steroids.

ANYWAY, Wargames Factory has preovers for something like 1300 sprues of greatcoat infantry.

http://www.wargamesfactory.com/BookingRetrieve.aspx?ID=42195

And 70 pages of discussion over what they will look like

http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/2009/01/29/sci-fi-greatcoat-infantry/page70/

For those who are interested, 20-man boxes can still be bought from GWOZ!!!!!

Go go go!

I ordered five of those, even though I've got no need for them. Guess I could keep the legs apart for that Vraksian army I've always wanted. Getting legs cheap around here will be a bigger problem now with the kits going up in price and down in contents.

Those filthy..

I smell a conspiracy.

H.B.M.C. wrote:For those who are interested, 20-man boxes can still be bought from GWOZ!!!!!

Go go go!

You know something's up if even HBMC endorses buying from GWOZ!

Shep wrote:
Each guardsman costs an additional $0.45!!!

Certainly worthy of internet ranting

Yeah but you have to buy like 200 of 'em. That's $90 more for a 1000 pt army.....

lol, sweet sweet conscripts... I think I'll skip those, by and large. They're a good way to bulk up your fire or tar pit an assault squad, but damn that'll be expensive now!

I'm looking at one infantry company, and one tank company now. Hopefully an artillery company next followed by a second - mechanized this time - infantry company. Then some super heavies. THEN a whole bucket of conscripts.

Wait... 1000pts of conscripts... that's 250 men. Hmmm..... We shall see.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Penal troops aren't likely going to be a hugely popular unit, so the best way to model them will likely be a conversion of some sort. Bare heads, rag-tag equipment and cruel-looking close combat weaponry would fit the bill, as well as an officious-looking Custodian.

IMO, the old Mordian Sergeant would be ideal, wearing a dress uniform and harassing around 9 lasgun guys from whatever Necromunda range you most enjoy, with maybe some Catachans or a ragged Cadian thrown in.

An alternative would be the old Rogue Trader era Imperial Guardsmen, you could easily paint their rather plain uniforms in convict style, either a drab grey or high-vis orange, depending on how merciful their commanding officer is.

I got yer Penal Legion models right here!



Although that way works out a tad expensive. A cheaper method than the above, if you're wanting to field truly ragtag Legionnaires, would be Empire Flagellants with lasgun/pistol/etc components from a bits seller or whatever.

H.B.M.C. wrote:For those who are interested, 20-man boxes can still be bought from GWOZ!!!!!

Go go go!

Hah, that's funny... if I go from looking at the 10-man box on the US or UK site (which I've been doing) and then switch over the Oz site (or follow my bookmark to the "view entire army product list") the Oz$35 10-man box shows up, not the 20-man one. But if I go through the whole sidebar drop down menu navigation, then the Oz$50 20-man box shows up. Such are the "joys" of the all-in-one GW online store.

those look incredible!

The 10-man box is AUD$35?

So $50 for 20 now, or $70 for the same 20 models in a few weeks. So a 40% price increase for Australia.

Yeah that's fair.

.....So I take it the rumors of extra bits being included to make vets/conscripts weren't true then?



Man...what a rip-off.

Good thing veterans are troops now.

Almost glad I decided not to start the guard army I always wanted. Almost, because I'm saving what is sure to be an unjustifiably large amount of money, but not because I would have been glad to actually make the guard army I always wanted.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Shep wrote:

ricekake87 wrote:so does it cost more than the original 20???

9 dollars more for 20.

Each guardsman costs an additional $0.45!!!

Certainly worthy of internet ranting

$35 => $44 is a 33% hike.

Even better. In 1999 the same 20 Cats cost you $22, now they cost you $44. that's 10% inflation a year.

Must be the price of steroids.

ANYWAY, Wargames Factory has preovers for something like 1300 sprues of greatcoat infantry.

http://www.wargamesfactory.com/BookingRetrieve.aspx?ID=42195

And 70 pages of discussion over what they will look like

http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/2009/01/29/sci-fi-greatcoat-infantry/page70/

I am so down for getting those figures when they become available.

If I didn't already have over 100 Tallarn infantry, I might actually care about the price increase tied to the repackaging.

GW still has those $8 5-packs if numbers are really an issue. Those have always been a better deal than the 20-man box, but they are just snap-togethers and they are probably not the best for converting.

Shep wrote:

ricekake87 wrote:so does it cost more than the original 20???

9 dollars more for 20.

Each guardsman costs an additional $0.45!!!

Certainly worthy of internet ranting

Well, let's see. On the one hand, the not-quite-2-quarter price increase is not much per model. Unless you look at it from a percetage standpoint, at which point it becomes "significant". But let's look at a larger picture. In my last game with my guard at 1850 points, I put about 245 Cadians into the mix. And Catachans. And even some Tallarns. a $0.45 USD price increase per model on that army, should someone decide to build it now, would come out to spending 110.25 USD more. MORE for an army at 1850 points.

Worthy of internet ranting? Certainly not for me, I already have all my guard models. For someone else? A question we will all have to answer individually.

Whatever your personal opinion, it's hard to argue that 110 bucks that could be spent on whatever else is a good thing to just be happy about throwing into GW's pocket. Yeah, go ahead ad argue recession, business principal, costs, even a twin tailed comet in the sky if you like. But if you expect people to be happy about it, you can expect to be disappointed.

skrulnik wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:Your comparison is, I feel, off the mark. Warlord Games ECW infantry costs £18 for 40. Perrys' ACW infantry cost £15 for 36. Wargames Factory Celts cost £13.60 for 32. Given the immense variability between the model needs of different historical games, the only universal benchmark is £ per head. I omitted FoW and Foundry here because one is a game with a very different scale, and the other deals exclusively in metals, so comparisons to GW (who deals mostly in plastics, after all) are of limited usefulness. Warmachine and Hordes simply are hellishly expensive games.

To say that historical games are more expensive because you need lots of infantry is ignoring the fact that 40k (and Fantasy) armies typically are composed of more than just line infantry, and those other sets (elite troops, vehicles, etc) typically have an even worse cash-for-miniatures ratio.

Games Workshop's pricing in this instance is indefensible, doubly so if the rumored 25% price increase goes into effect in June.

My price comparison is based on how much cash you drop for a useable army. For most game systems, I have found that $200-$500 is the range, including FoW. In building armies for the new Field of Glory game, I dropped close to $300 for metals and plastics for 28mm Celts. Also, Artillery and Cavalry for historicals are mcuh more expensive than the troops. For the same reasons as GWs stuff. Each player needs less of them.

I am not defending GW's prices. Just pointing out that they are the model for the industry, not a rogue that is just out to gouge us.

For historical stuff, the new plastics are not that much cheaper than the metals.
But the plastics are priced because of competition, not because of material costs.
The GW universe has no such competition for like figures.

If you would like to continue this discussion, maybe a new topic in Discussions would be a good idea?

Well, I just spent 895.00 for my new Guard Army and I still need 3 chimeras!

Granted this is a mech force with 3 Vendettas, 4 Russes, 6 Chimeras and a pair of Griffons, but still

No other game gets that high for a single standard size tournament army.

Not complaining, my own dam fault for loving the models and liking 5th edition enough to get back into the game, but really nothing costs like GW.

The stupidest part of this box is that, in the era of the 20 man box, the codex was very clear. It said you "may" replace two guardsmen with a heavy weapons team.

In the new codex it simply says "replace", which seems to me that you now have to have a heavy weapons team in a squad. If this is true, then they're selling you a box that won't even make a legal unit. Kinda stupid if you ask me, it should come with the two heavy weapons sprues (one for crew, one for the weapons).

Also, sergeants only have a few very limited amount of options and none of them include having a lasgun. They only come with a laspistol and a chainsword. They can have a bolt pistol, a plasma pistol, or a power sword for more points.

All of my sargeants have lasguns. All of my sargeants will continue to have lasguns. All of my sargeants will be shooting one shot at 12" and getting extra rifle butts to people's faces. Any of those TFG's who seriously has a problem with that isn't worth playing anyway, so I ain't worried...

So with the price hike, DKOK isn't as bad an option anymore, price wise/comparitavely I mean.


GG

generalgrog wrote:So with the price hike, DKOK isn't as bad an option anymore, price wise/comparitavely I mean.


GG

Essentially a kick in the balls doesn't seem so bad anymore when the only other option for showing up is a punch in the cock? I'd say that really sums it up, sad as it may be.

Kasrkinlegion wrote:The stupidest part of this box is that, in the era of the 20 man box, the codex was very clear. It said you "may" replace two guardsmen with a heavy weapons team.

In the new codex it simply says "replace", which seems to me that you now have to have a heavy weapons team in a squad. If this is true, then they're selling you a box that won't even make a legal unit. Kinda stupid if you ask me, it should come with the two heavy weapons sprues (one for crew, one for the weapons).

Also, sergeants only have a few very limited amount of options and none of them include having a lasgun. They only come with a laspistol and a chainsword. They can have a bolt pistol, a plasma pistol, or a power sword for more points.

All of my sargeants have lasguns. All of my sargeants will continue to have lasguns. All of my sargeants will be shooting one shot at 12" and getting extra rifle butts to people's faces. Any of those TFG's who seriously has a problem with that isn't worth playing anyway, so I ain't worried...

In the new codices, weapon choices are listed under large "OPTION" headings, and are in no way mandatory.

I can't believe there's no storm bolters for officers anymore, total bs.

Stop complaining.

The new codex brings many cool options - so what if it removes a little of the old variants?

Storm bolters was a silly idea anyway, lasguns or not for sergeants doesn't mean much when considering all the new shiny toys IG has been blessed with. Two-wound heavy weapon teams is also a minor change (doesn't affect game play much and is a quick conversion).

The whole purpose of a codex is to limit options, making races play/feel different. Also fewer options makes it easier to balance codexes.

There are times when GW make big changes that makes whole armies invalid (such as when I had to scrap all my Rending-Hormagaunts) but for the most parts their changes actually makes the game better. IMHO anyway.

Focus on the good stuff - instead of bitching about nerfs.

kendoka wrote:The whole purpose of a codex is to limit options

And here I was thinking that the purpose of a Codex was to give choice to players to theme their force as they saw fit, creating an environment of varied and flavourful lists.

(deadpan)

How silly of me.

(/deadpan)

Wow, HBMC, you said that so much more delicately than I was inclined to.

H.B.M.C. wrote:And here I was thinking that the purpose of a Codex was to give choice to players to theme their force as they saw fit, creating an environment of varied and flavourful lists.

Very true, but I'd only get my knickers in a twist with regards to tournament games, to be honest. I tend to play friendly games with mates where FOC's are more of a guideline.

If we use anything weird, wonderful & fluffy (or more sensible, like IG Sgts with las-guns) then we always state it to our opponent & usually hand wave most things with allowing the other player to field something equally fluffy, or ignore it if they are over the agreed points cost by 20 or 30 points.

Reply by: fatlad2613 - click to view full reply 

5673

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/15 17:58:03

Post by: fatlad2613

guard have become to expensive for me 33% increase (£18 for 20 - £24 for 20) not a cool move at all. bring out a new codex and then outprice the army. well done GW.

Reply by: JohnHwangDD - click to view full reply 

5421

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/16 02:14:05

Post by: JohnHwangDD

kendoka wrote:Focus on the good stuff - instead of bitching about nerfs.

Um, OK, what stuff are you intending for us to focus on?
- Loss of Drop Troops Doctrine, loss of Cameoline & Carapace Doctrines?
- 40-pt Ogryns (with mandatory 50-pt Bonehead)?
- 16-pt Storms (vs 10-pt ISTs)?
- 55-pt Chimeras (vs 35-pt Rhinos)?
- 15-pt Plasma (like BS4 Sv3+ SM)?
- 15-pt MLs?
- 20-pt Lascannon?
- Grossly-overpriced new tank variants *cough* Punisher *cough* Eradicator *cough*?

Or maybe the new models?
- 10 IG for $22 vs 20 IG for $35?

What?

Reply by: Ketara - click to view full reply 

11029

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/16 02:37:59

Post by: Ketara

As a Praetorian player, I find it amusing when other people complain about prices per model. xD

Reply by: Alpharius - click to view full reply 

123

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/16 02:56:25

Post by: Alpharius

Well, that is your choice though...

Reply by: augfubuoy - click to view full reply 

12652

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/16 03:49:18

Post by: augfubuoy

Well, all of my guard will look like sh*t now because I'll just buy the snap-together ones ...


-A.

Reply by: augfubuoy - click to view full reply 

12652

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/16 03:49:59

Post by: augfubuoy

Good thing I already have 100 of the guys, but still...

Reply by: synchronicity - click to view full reply 

10830

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/16 05:01:17

Post by: synchronicity

kendoka wrote:Two-wound heavy weapon teams is also a minor change (doesn't affect game play much and is a quick conversion).

For heavy weapon squads in an infantry squad, maybe. But for Heavy Weapon Teams, where they are the only model, it is a much larger problem, because you can't assign those strength 7 wounds to anyone else BUT a HWS.

Reply by: raven322 - click to view full reply 

13904

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/16 06:25:37

Post by: raven322

The price increase seems ridiculous just be easier for me make 2nd armoured fist. i have to much infantry as is ill proably be buying russes 5th ed

Reply by: Valhallan42nd - click to view full reply 

6292

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/25 01:35:43

Post by: Valhallan42nd

kendoka wrote:Stop complaining.

The new codex brings many cool options - so what if it removes a little of the old variants?

Storm bolters was a silly idea anyway, lasguns or not for sergeants doesn't mean much when considering all the new shiny toys IG has been blessed with. Two-wound heavy weapon teams is also a minor change (doesn't affect game play much and is a quick conversion).

The whole purpose of a codex is to limit options, making races play/feel different. Also fewer options makes it easier to balance codexes.

There are times when GW make big changes that makes whole armies invalid (such as when I had to scrap all my Rending-Hormagaunts) but for the most parts their changes actually makes the game better. IMHO anyway.

Focus on the good stuff - instead of bitching about nerfs.

Seriously, this post angers me.

Storm bolters were not broken.

I can understand the SGT thing to an extent. Sgts need to be different from the rest of the squad so that they can be picked out. But now I have to break tons of models that are already painted and ready to go, kitbash shotguns or fiddle with bolters to make them fit, and go from there. I don't want to dremel the lasgun away from my valhallan figure, but if it's what I have to do, then it's what I have to do. My alternative is to buy over $40 worth of guys who are all the same pose. That pisses me off.

Reply by: JohnHwangDD - click to view full reply 

5421

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/25 02:40:00

Post by: JohnHwangDD

Valhallan42nd wrote:I can understand the SGT thing to an extent. Sgts need to be different from the rest of the squad so that they can be picked out. But now I have to break tons of models that are already painted and ready to go, kitbash shotguns or fiddle with bolters to make them fit, and go from there.

I don't want to dremel the lasgun away from my valhallan figure, but if it's what I have to do, then it's what I have to do. My alternative is to buy over $40 worth of guys who are all the same pose. That pisses me off.

Screw them, don't do it.

I didn't re-base my Terminators. I didn't play ball with the Stormtrooper Sergeants supposedly having HP&CCW, and I'm not re-basing my Tallarn MLs, and I'm not cutting up my metal Tallarn models to satisfy some slow's desire to change the Codex rules and equipment.

In my Guard, my Sergeants my exchange the LP&CCW for Lasguns for FREE.

Or if the opponent insists, then the Lasgun "counts as" LP&CCW on the Sergeant.

But to cut up minis for no good reason? Madness & absurdity.


If GW *really* wants me to field LP&CCW Sergeants, then they can offer a trade-in program.

Or just sell individual Sergeant models like they did before Bitz went down the crapper.


Otherwise, it's just another reason to hate the new Codex.

Reply by: LunaHound - click to view full reply 

10345

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/25 02:42:55

Post by: LunaHound

GW always make stupid changes that makes no sense.
It messes up the modeling aspect as well, just so every have to rebuy or convert just so they are legit in this edition. Then next edition they'll change it back and oops again!

Reply by: Valhallan42nd - click to view full reply 

6292

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/25 04:38:21

Post by: Valhallan42nd

As an aside, what are the sgt options for an IG infantry squad?

Says the guy with the eager clippers.

Reply by: Kid_Kyoto - click to view full reply 

518

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/25 04:44:33

Post by: Kid_Kyoto

Valhallan42nd wrote:As an aside, what are the sgt options for an IG infantry squad?

Says the guy with the eager clippers.

Sgts come with pistol CC (no lasgun option)

Options are:
Melta bombs
Bolt Pistol
Power Weapon (NEW!!)
Plasma Pistol

but don't look for any of those in the new 33% more expensive boxes.

Reply by: Valhallan42nd - click to view full reply 

6292

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/25 04:46:37

Post by: Valhallan42nd

So, they can't take shotguns. Huh. I thought they could.

Well that sucks.

Reply by: Raxmei - click to view full reply 

8218

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/25 05:02:35

Post by: Raxmei

Valhallan42nd wrote:So, they can't take shotguns. Huh. I thought they could.

Well that sucks.

Veteran sergeants can have shotguns. So can the rest of the veteran squad.

Reply by: Valhallan42nd - click to view full reply 

6292

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/25 05:15:09

Post by: Valhallan42nd

Raxmei wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:So, they can't take shotguns. Huh. I thought they could.

Well that sucks.

Veteran sergeants can have shotguns. So can the rest of the veteran squad.

Now I have a burning red rage. "Well, at least the bastards can get shotguns. Shotguns are neat (concept wise), and I can easily make lasguns into shotguns". I can't magic an across-the-chest-molded-to-the-torso lasgun into a laspistol/ccw. Mother .

Reply by: Ghaz - click to view full reply 

14

IG infantry boxed sets online @ 2009/04/25 05:50:22

Post by: Ghaz

Kasrkinlegion wrote:In the new codex it simply says "replace", which seems to me that you now have to have a heavy weapons team in a squad. If this is true, then they're selling you a box that won't even make a legal unit. Kinda stupid if you ask me, it should come with the two heavy weapons sprues (one for crew, one for the weapons).

Uh, try looking at the top of the column about nine bullet points up from the one you're reading and you'll notice in big capital letters the word "OPTIONS". You're not required to have a heavy weapon team, otherwise it would be listed under the "WARGEAR" heading.