http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/04/40k-fantasy-news-june-2009-price.html
I guess there feeling the recession aswell
I better get the ravenwing battleforce soon then

Happens every year, about the same time and people are still shocked and amazed. Deal with it, heck, sometimes things go down a buck or two.

Le Grognard wrote:heck, sometimes things go down a buck or two.

Lies and scandal

Yeah they go up every year but it's still news and we still don't have to like it, real concern is by how much?

I only remember prices going down on some stuff once.

I realize prices go up every year, but in this recession GW shouldda skipped the annual increase. If this does turn out to be a 25% increase as rumored I'll be done buying as soon as my current GW projects are finished. I've already mostly moved on to other game systems where I feel the value of my money is better spent.

Damn. I might never get my Grey Knights finished. Already damn expensive as is, I can't take much more than this. It's already $17 for a GK Termie with Psycannon, might they push it all the way to $20?

That doesn't include the insane cost of my Lizardmen Salamanders, Razordons, and Kroxigors...

Quick form an assualt team to storm there headquarters

Just because it happens every year doesn't make it not BS.

Is there any other miniatures company that raises their prices every year?

I get my stuff with a set weekly budget of store credit I earn running the game days and tournies at the FLGS, so they'll get no extra money out of me, they'll just be selling me less stuff.

I guess I really need to get my Chaos boys done before that, then hope I don't ever want to make another army.

I feel like the cadian box price increase is flowing into the overall price increase rumors... there's no way they would stay in business if they increased all prices by 25%.

my army isnt even finish so i have know idea what to do
but who knows if the economy gets better they may lower prices
but i see that as unlikely
man the bike squade will end up costing 50 bucks

Cryonicleech shakes his head as he hears about the price increase AFTER Californian taxes increase...


Luckily, I have THE WARSTOR!!!

Neal, you rule!

What, GW would raise prices in a down market? Imagine that!

I guess the coming IG order will be my last for quite a while.

No biggie - plenty to work on, plenty to play.

Nerdrage and walletfury aside, it really is bizarre behaviour. Why do they do this? Has there ever been a concrete reason for their inexplicable and seemingly arbitrary strategy of "whether hail or sleet or snow or UFO invasion or zombie apocalypse, we will raise prices." policy?

1. Hit a recession
2. Increase prices
3. Lower sales
4. ????
5. ...profit?

with price increases happening again this year all that will happen with me and gw is ill be more selective over what i buy from them, and my ammount of buying will be reduced by about a quarter as things will take longer to save up for?

Will online discount sites be affected by the price increase later then GW stores will? just wondering.

But seriously, It hasn't even been a year anyway. The last price hike was sometime during the autumn, or doesn't that even count because they didn't jack up the price of plastics that time?

All in all, to sum it up,

Greed workshop strikes again.

Paul Atreides wrote:Will online discount sites be affected by the price increase later then GW stores will? just wondering.

If the price increase means also increasing the prices they charge to retailers, then yes, it will.

I'd like to move to wherever you guys are, where nobody but GW ever raises prices. I can stomach expensive models if it means food and rent are cheap.

lord_blackfang wrote:I'd like to move to wherever you guys are, where nobody but GW ever raises prices. I can stomach expensive models if it means food and rent are cheap.

Oh, in Alberta, rent is hellishly expensive. We've just gotten used to it.

lord_blackfang wrote:I'd like to move to wherever you guys are, where nobody but GW ever raises prices. I can stomach expensive models if it means food and rent are cheap.

See, I like to think that in a sane world, playing with toy soldiers doesn't really need to be figured into the same budget as food and rent.

JOHIRA wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:I'd like to move to wherever you guys are, where nobody but GW ever raises prices. I can stomach expensive models if it means food and rent are cheap.

See, I like to think that in a sane world, playing with toy soldiers doesn't really need to be figured into the same budget as food and rent.

Its true, everybody knows toy soldiers come before food and rent in a budget.

Is this only for the US market?

Would be strange with the strong €uro to increase priced for the Continent.

Heck, In the moment it makes sense to buy all your stuff directly in Brittan.

Greets
Schepp himself

Well, the Cadian Battleforce over here is being released at £55, a 10% increase.

I assume thats what BoL are inferring, that the other sets will be going up to the same amount.

lord_blackfang wrote:I'd like to move to wherever you guys are, where nobody but GW ever raises prices. I can stomach expensive models if it means food and rent are cheap.

Within the hobby of miniatures wargames and other pastimes, GW pricing strategies are pretty unique. WOTC prices its D&D Player's Handbook roughly the same this year than it was 2 years ago when I bought my copy, MTG booster pack prices have been at 4€ for a while now as well. Privateer Press hasn't raised the cost of WM or Hordes rulebooks or old models (new warjacks cost more than old ones, but that's a different kind of pricing issue).

JOHIRA wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:I'd like to move to wherever you guys are, where nobody but GW ever raises prices. I can stomach expensive models if it means food and rent are cheap.

See, I like to think that in a sane world, playing with toy soldiers doesn't really need to be figured into the same budget as food and rent.

QFT, man.

I shouldn't have to consider that buying HALF of a SMALL squad would cost bout the same as a decent small kitchen appliance.

I dunno. I think the 3.0 D&D books were quite a bit cheaper when they came out. PP did raise prices on old metals at the same time GW did last year.

As for M:TG, I started playing it at the same time as 40k and they were ~2.50€ back then. So an increase of over 50%. Admittedly, GW's prices just about doubled in the same time, but so did their quality. Even back then, if given the choice, I would gladly have paid twice the cost of the old Rhino for the MkIII. Meanwhile, Magic cards are still just pieces of card with pretty pictures...

I don't enjoy price hikes any more than the next guy, but I don't think GW is being unreasonable, especially when they're constantly improving (models at least if not rules)

GW's price increases are ridiculous. It'd be easier to swallow if they gave an explanation that made sense. With inflation bouncing between and around 3-7% each year, GW's prices at worst should be going up each year only by around that much. The fact that its consistently more means we're paying more and more for less and less. If GW were making significant strides in quality you could justify a higher price, but they aren't. So why does GW keep raising the price?

Answer, this sentiment:

Sirius42 wrote:Its true, everybody knows toy soldiers come before food and rent in a budget.

GW identified as much in their annual report, on their business. That we have such an inflexible demand for their products we sacrifice other expenses and luxuries to get our miniatures. Maybe rather than blaming GW for being capitalist and taking advantage of our "need" we should collectively admit we have a problem. The first step to breaking an addiction is to admit you have one.

Blaming GW only gets us so far, maybe its time we blame ourselves for feeding the "beast".

lord_blackfang wrote:I dunno. I think the 3.0 D&D books were quite a bit cheaper when they came out. PP did raise prices on old metals at the same time GW did last year.

As for M:TG, I started playing it at the same time as 40k and they were ~2.50€ back then. So an increase of over 50%. Admittedly, GW's prices just about doubled in the same time, but so did their quality. Even back then, if given the choice, I would gladly have paid twice the cost of the old Rhino for the MkIII. Meanwhile, Magic cards are still just pieces of card with pretty pictures...

I'm pretty sure I paid 35€ for my 3.5E PHB a few years ago, and the 4E book is going for the same right now. I seem to recall I paid in the vicinity of 3.40€ per pack for Mirrodin boosters six years ago. Then again, MTG is more expensive around here than most other places I've heard of. You are right about Privateer. My memory isn't what it used to be, these days

Also, GW raising quality doesn't make me feel one iota better for paying more for the same old models. If there's some huge economic problem with the company that facilitates such desperate price gouging, then GW is certainly keeping mum about it and claiming everything is peachy keen and awesome. So what's changing to force them to raise prices with clockwork regularity? It can't be raw materials, those have been going down lately, the same with logistics costs descending thanks to the oil price going down

If I had my druthers, I'd buy 1990 models at 1990 prices any day of the week. For something as trivial as vehicles and rank and file with lasguns, I'd have made the same choice in 1990, too. Heck, in a sense those of us who've bought certain GW plastics in the recent past have already done a similar choice by not buying the better-looking Forge World models.

GW quality is not excuse.

As a new player to 40K (played many boardgames previously but never a true mini-based wargame system like 40K)... all I've gotta say is "wow"... in times of worldwide recession and economic turmoil... you raise your prices on a luxury, disposable income type product. Good strategy.

Seriously, it's a very pricey game for what you get and if it weren't for people selling off armies on Ebay and other auction sites and buying bits and pieces here and there I certainly wouldn't be buying as much as I am.

I personally won't buy at the inflated GW site prices and raising those prices even more certainly won't entice me any further. I use their site to look at all the cool figs and then buy them as cheap as I can find them elsewhere.

The game may be good, the models may be very good and the community surrounding WH may be excellent... but the fact remains that the bigwigs at the top of GW are doing all in their power to appear as greedy and money sucking as possible to their faithful customers.

No doubt they will lose some customers as people sell their armies and drift away to more affordable games but I assume the GW perspective is that their price increases will help to cover any migrations away from the game. They know they have a strongly loyal userbase who'll play and PAY whatever it takes to keep enjoying the game. It's sad but true... most will suck it up and pay just because they love the models and the gaming community that surrounds the game itself.

My guess is that these price increase hurt more than help GW. The fact that despite price increases they still haven't managed a sustainable profit growth, shows that they're hemorrhaging potential sales. On top of that they're alienating their fan base who increasingly grow adversarial with GW. I mean there was a time where it felt like GW was doing their best to look after our gaming needs doing us a real service and not in it entirely for the money.

They've thrown their ethics out the window. The purpose of business is, first and foremost, to provide a service; the optimization of stockholder value or "making money" is secondary, when any business goes from one to the other as its main priority it ceases to have an ethical standing. That business loses any ethical distinction from a pimp or drug dealer and has about as much right to be a business.

When did a 5 dollar Battleforce Increase and a few adjustments along the lines become a 25% across the board increase?

Mahu wrote:When did a 5 dollar Battleforce Increase and a few adjustments along the lines become a 25% across the board increase?

Warseer has been talking about a 25% adjustment for several codes for a while now. Including £12 boxes going to £15.

Yes, I'd like to know that too. I just can't believe they would actually implement a 25% increase across the board. I know there are a lot of yes men and apologists working for GW, but even so...

Nothing I've been told indicates they will be doing such a drastic increase. Based on past years, and what's been given to me so far, I expect:
-battleforces to go to 95.00
-Advertised IG prices reflect the increase already
-Some metal blisters will go up a lot, move to direct, and no one will really care because no one buys them anyway. But much lamenting will occur suddenly over things like yetee and chaos trolls.
-A 3% increase on some things, and a 5% increase on others, since that's part of the 'official line', that they are giving to trade.
-A couple of things will jump way the hell up, we will never know why, and much justified ranting will occur. (Based on what's happened before, just guessing on this one.)

And a good margin of error, because sometimes what I'm told will happen, and what happens, are two ery different things.

But all the doom and gloom "25% or 35% increase across the board" is total crap. ...Or it better be, that would be a seriously bad move with the economy right now.

nexttothemoon wrote:... all I've gotta say is "wow"... in times of worldwide recession and economic turmoil... you raise your prices on a luxury, disposable income type product. Good strategy.

+1

Hordini wrote:Just because it happens every year doesn't make it not BS.

Is there any other miniatures company that raises their prices every year?

the miniature gas companies...

sigh, expected. as for the posters who mention that they occasionally lower prices, you are correct in a sense. they lower prices typically on the models that are being replaced with new sculpts or phased out completely to direct order. when the new sculpts come out, they're at the new higher price. as for the D&D books, they were very agressively priced for the release of 3rd and 3.5 editiosn ($25 each core book IIRC) since wotc wanted to make a big splash with the release of their first D&D edition since buying out WOTC and then to justify a new release only 3 years after 3rd ed.

This is within their rights to maximize their shareholder value. I likewise have the ability to maximize frazzled's value and will review any purchases accordingly.

If they raised prices only one half of on percent some of you would still whine.

But only one half of one percent as much

I guess this puts the final nail in the coffin for my ideas of a new Guard army. I guess I'll just rebase my old school Obliterators as well.

Techboss, to quote Dr.Pepper on BOLS

"Whats stopping you from buying one unit per paycheck or per month? You can still have that dream, just pace yourself."

Because its slowly becoming one unit every two paychecks, for some people. And even at a pace like what you say it'd take a 1-2 years to have reasonably sized IG army. The simple fact is too slow of a pace and you get left out of half the hobby, example escalation league.

GAMES WORKSHOP GRP( LSE: GAW.L / ISIN GB0003718474 )
Last Trade: 206.50 p
Trade Time: 9 Apr
Change: 16.50 (8.68%)
Prev Close: 190.00
Open: 200.00
Bid: 206.25
Ask: 206.75
1y Target Est: 250.00 p
Day's Range: 199.50 - 207.00
52wk Range: 166.00 - 280.00
Volume: 15,762
Avg Vol (3m): 12,686.4
Market Cap: N/A
P/E (ttm): N/A
EPS (ttm): N/A
Div & Yield: N/A (N/A)




Keep buying you grubby gits!

Well if it really is as crippling as 25% then I think it might be what gets me to stop buying direct from GW. I sometimes think I'm the only person on this forum who does that.

Hammerziet wrote:Well if it really is as crippling as 25% then I think it might be what gets me to stop buying direct from GW. I sometimes think I'm the only person on this forum who does that.

You're not the only one dude. Trust me. Plenty of us here don't buy GW stuff anymore, or buy only very rarely.


Edit - Oh snap, you meant you're the only person who buys direct from GW....

Haha...yeah, you probably are the only one!

The Warstore is your friend!

GreyFox555 wrote:Techboss, to quote Dr.Pepper on BOLS

"Whats stopping you from buying one unit per paycheck or per month? You can still have that dream, just pace yourself."

Here's my deal on the whole subject. When the cost of a "standard" size army (2500 Fantasy, 2000 40K) meets or exceeds the cost of a something of real value in my other hobbies/interests/house, then GW looses. What I mean by that is if I can buy something for my other hobbies which is less than a GW army, then I'm likely to do that over GW. Additionally, the GW product comes in an unfinished state of which I must spend my time to convert into a finished state. I can buy a finished product for one of my other interests or wants most of the time and retain some real value.

It's the perverbiable straw that broke the camels back.

It's kinda odd though, GW usually raises their prices once every five or so year because of inflation and all that gibberish, but didn't they do that all that long ago?

Uriels_Flame wrote:GAMES WORKSHOP GRP( LSE: GAW.L / ISIN GB0003718474 )
Last Trade: 206.50 p
Trade Time: 9 Apr
Change: 16.50 (8.68%)
Prev Close: 190.00
Open: 200.00
Bid: 206.25
Ask: 206.75
1y Target Est: 250.00 p
Day's Range: 199.50 - 207.00
52wk Range: 166.00 - 280.00
Volume: 15,762
Avg Vol (3m): 12,686.4
Market Cap: N/A
P/E (ttm): N/A
EPS (ttm): N/A
Div & Yield: N/A (N/A)




Keep buying you grubby gits!

Well the increase is nice, but I have to wonder at what point did you buy in? if you bought in at 150 or less, then cudos.. lol

aka_mythos wrote:GW's price increases are ridiculous. It'd be easier to swallow if they gave an explanation that made sense. With inflation bouncing between and around 3-7% each year, GW's prices at worst should be going up each year only by around that much. The fact that its consistently more means we're paying more and more for less and less. If GW were making significant strides in quality you could justify a higher price, but they aren't. So why does GW keep raising the price?

Answer, this sentiment:

Sirius42 wrote:Its true, everybody knows toy soldiers come before food and rent in a budget.

GW identified as much in their annual report, on their business. That we have such an inflexible demand for their products we sacrifice other expenses and luxuries to get our miniatures. Maybe rather than blaming GW for being capitalist and taking advantage of our "need" we should collectively admit we have a problem. The first step to breaking an addiction is to admit you have one.

Blaming GW only gets us so far, maybe its time we blame ourselves for feeding the "beast".

This is true...but has anyone actually done research on this addiction? I mean why do I crave new miniatures like a junkie craves heroin? What chemical reaction is happening in side my head, what synapse is firing that drives me to dump ridiculous amounts of cash on little plastic toys?....and its not just ANY plastic toys, I'm not buying WotC collectible pre-painted crap, I'm not buying action figures at K-mart, I'm buying premium wargaming models that are way overpriced...which I know are way overpriced...and I moan and complain at how overpriced they are...but I keep buying them...someone please tell me why!

Hammerziet wrote:Well if it really is as crippling as 25% then I think it might be what gets me to stop buying direct from GW. I sometimes think I'm the only person on this forum who does that.

It's no where near that level of an increase.

I think the 25% rumor thing is coming from the repackaged IG squad boxes. The new IG squad boxes are a prime example of price gouging IMHO. We used to get 20 models for 35 USD now we'll get 10 of the exact same models for 22 USD. It's totally absurd to raise the prices this much and not add anything new!

Do they really think we're that stupid as to not notice?

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Do they really think we're that stupid as to not notice?

GW doesn't care if you notice.
As long as people continue to aimlessly rant on message boards about price increases all while still buying the product GW will continue to increase pricing. This happens every year yet people are still shocked by it.

Just because people still get fragged off about it, doesn't mean they're actually shocked, per se.

It's sort of like a yearly rectal exam for middle-aged and older men. Most veterans have come to expect it by now, but that doesn't make it any more pleasant when it actually happens.

Thank you for the well timed anal reasoning.

I'm not shocked at all. I work on the corporate side of things and I know exactly how company higher ups work. And I am well aware of the fact they won't care, but honestly, if faced with not being able to pay bills and buying toy soldiers we will reduce our consumption. They can only push the consumer so far and I believe they're getting to that point.

Most gamers have discretionary income and for those who do game a lot of it goes towards miniatures. I don't know anyone who hasn't been affected by the depression and they will be losing customers like me who just won't be buying anything new for a while.

I think I speak for many who are more inclined to hold off on spending, especially with price increases, until we know where we stand. Having a price increase right now is strategically the worst move you can possibly make when it comes to a non-essential product like 40k.

I dont mind admitting that some of the only bits i get direct from gw now is my paints, I want to do an imp gurard army ( ultramar pdf ) but sat down pricing leman russes up, and troops, and apc's to transport them in and the army will be well over £400 for a 2.5k point army? This price tag forces me to do 1 of three things, either look for older imp gurard models i can repaint from fellow gamers, look to other stockists, especially online ones, or collect the army over a number of years, by which time another codex will have come out and what i have bought will be obsolete again?

In the battle between double-ply toilet paper and GW minis, double-ply will win every single time. I figure that if I ever have to make that decision, I should just throw out all my minis and never look at them again.

Besides, with a price increase, I can direct my money at my other hobbies. Oh wait... the gaming industry is getting pretty barren too. God dammit.

I never thought I would have considered import gundam models cheap, but GW likes to push it.

Hammerziet wrote:Well if it really is as crippling as 25% then I think it might be what gets me to stop buying direct from GW. I sometimes think I'm the only person on this forum who does that.

In all seriousness why would anyone buy directly from them? There's no sense to it at all. The only reason I can see to ever buy directly from GW is if it's a real life store and you make use of their facilities to paint/game/hang out a lot, and then only if there are no other local options to do those things at. Otherwise why would you? It's just wasting money.

"Whats stopping you from buying one unit per paycheck or per month? You can still have that dream, just pace yourself."

There are a *LOT* of things wrong with this:
1. You lose any buying leverage for volume discounts.
2. You can't buy any large boxed sets (i.e. Battalions, Armies, or Apoc kits)
3. If you aren't local, the gas / shipping adds up

So you would actually pay even more this way!

Has anyone actually wrote to or called them to ask about the scale of these increases yet?

I can't remember if this was said earlier but how much can we "blame" FW for some of the price increase. If you look at how much people shell out for a DKoK army (very tempting with the Guard price increase and new dex). GW sees people willing to pay high prices for the FW minis and believes that they can charge us the same?

If GW's mini's were the quality of FW's and were plastic (so avoid the prep time needed for the resin), then perhaps I could easily accept a yearly price increase.

RIP my DKoK and other future armies...

Sirius42 wrote:Has anyone actually wrote to or called them to ask about the scale of these increases yet?

Several times, since I make a portion of my living selling GW models. The answer so far has been '5 bucks on battleforces, some other stuff going up 3% to 5%'. While that's a pretty general answer, it's a hell of a long way from the '25%' that's been passed down the lane for the last week.

Am I the only one to think "You don't like the price, don't buy the stuff!!"......

probably not....

Got loads of stuff on the shelves already to do, I guess I just don't START the next project and instead FINISH the one's I'm working on.... Simples!

Received White Dwarf #352 yesterday and the price increas is mentioned in it towards the back. Effective June 1, 2009 many metal models and some plastic kits will experience a price increase.

Afterall, we have already seen price increases on the new IG stuff; Command kit is now $25, Valkuryie is $58 and the 10 man troopers is $22, sentinal kit is $25. I suspect there will be more as more new stuff is released.

when's the last time they had a value increase?

Stop complaining. Someone has to pay the proofreaders and playtesters their bonuses.

mikhaila wrote:

Sirius42 wrote:Has anyone actually wrote to or called them to ask about the scale of these increases yet?

Several times, since I make a portion of my living selling GW models. The answer so far has been '5 bucks on battleforces, some other stuff going up 3% to 5%'. While that's a pretty general answer, it's a hell of a long way from the '25%' that's been passed down the lane for the last week.

Thanks for that, see now thats an increase I can be ok with, panic over

3-5 for this year... Personally I'm getting tired of it happening every single year. It just seems like a bit of an insult to us. But I'm sure glad it isn't going to be a complete grab as some have said.

At least give us some 'value added' like give us 3 more guardsman or a spruce of all the special weapons for a few bucks more. To half the number of models that seem exactly the same just seems completely ridiculous. $5 for a new battleforce is well and good in my view because of the sentinel and new command squad that's included... It has all the options & other weapons, which is great. But if you're going to charge $35 for 10 guys, they'd better be very special.

Fafnir wrote:1. Hit a recession
2. Increase prices
3. Lower sales
4. ????
5. ...profit?

Someone's never heard of the Economics concept of Price Elasticity of Demand. It is very possible to lower sales and increase profits. All that has to happen is for sales to drop less than the increase in price. Hell, look at the oil industry for last year to see what I'm talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand

With kits like the Valks and the Stompas, I really have been impressed with GW lately - they have actually been living up to their "we iz da best" claims as of late. So I won't begrudge them another 5 on Battleforces.

I wonder if the Tyranid Middle Sized Beasties will be raised again. I remember the days when Zoanthropes and Lictors were $12. What are they now? 20 each?

I just buy stuff through my pop's distributor. He gets an umbrella discount for buying anything they supply so when i need something i just tack on an order. I nabbed the foundation paint set for $33 this way.

It kinda helps when your dad owns a comic shop and your uncle owns a hobby shop.

ph34r wrote:I feel like the cadian box price increase is flowing into the overall price increase rumors... there's no way they would stay in business if they increased all prices by 25%.

Like that's gonna happen.

I want a new army every month!

Stuff's like Crack, hence it being known as Plastic Crack!

Railguns wrote:I wonder if the Tyranid Middle Sized Beasties will be raised again. I remember the days when Zoanthropes and Lictors were $12. What are they now? 20 each?

And only 7 months ago they were $17. I'm ebaying more 2nd ed. of both because there's no way I'm paying for new ones.

Sirius42 wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

Sirius42 wrote:Has anyone actually wrote to or called them to ask about the scale of these increases yet?

Several times, since I make a portion of my living selling GW models. The answer so far has been '5 bucks on battleforces, some other stuff going up 3% to 5%'. While that's a pretty general answer, it's a hell of a long way from the '25%' that's been passed down the lane for the last week.

Thanks for that, see now thats an increase I can be ok with, panic over

It'd be unprecedentedly small for boxes and blisters. Those typically go up a whole price band at one go.

The Green Git wrote:Stop complaining. Someone has to pay the proofreaders and playtesters their bonuses.

GW has playtesters?

Ozymandias wrote:

Fafnir wrote:1. Hit a recession
2. Increase prices
3. Lower sales
4. ????
5. ...profit?

Someone's never heard of the Economics concept of Price Elasticity of Demand. It is very possible to lower sales and increase profits. All that has to happen is for sales to drop less than the increase in price. Hell, look at the oil industry for last year to see what I'm talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand

Thing about oil is that our lifestyle depends upon it. That one resource probably affects every single industry on the planet somehow. Miniatures... not so much. Not only that, but by increasing the price, it makes it harder for new prospective consumers to become interested in the hobby, not to mention that you lower your pool of reliable buyers. That's all fine and dandy so long as those reliable buyers keep putting out the cash, but once they stop or slow down, it becomes harder to recover.

well lets face it they wont care becouse we (vets) are not the target group here the people GW want to buy the models are all the 12 year olds with no siblings and parents that'll buy anything the kid points at.

well the market will adapt. if GW goes too high people will naturally roll off to something else, Personally i'd roll Warmachine and go back to building ww2 display models, if things went out of hand.
But its always a sign that GW is trying to keep afloat and as much as it stings the pocket we should at least continue to keep the hobby going by supporting the biggest name in it. ok my days of £100 spending visits are over but im not going to drop the hobby because of money.

Ozymandias wrote:

Fafnir wrote:1. Hit a recession
2. Increase prices
3. Lower sales
4. ????
5. ...profit?

Someone's never heard of the Economics concept of Price Elasticity of Demand. It is very possible to lower sales and increase profits. All that has to happen is for sales to drop less than the increase in price. Hell, look at the oil industry for last year to see what I'm talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand

Some where on the GW investors' website they used to have GW's analysis on the game player demographic. Their study found that "our" demand is comparatively inelastic relative to other purchasing we might do. That a 40k or warhammer player would eat cheaper or spend less on clothes in favor buying more gaming products. They price their products accordingly. So GW has obviously heard of it, they've just chosen to follow the more vicious aspect; we're drug addicts and they are our dealers. That said we could always try to hold them up at gun point.

"None of you are hero types, are ya? I didn't think so! Just hand over the box of witch elves, and nobody gets hurt!"

No longer play in their stores, open clubs, use non GW miniatures.

Support those companies producing quality 28mm figures and if an opportunity to buy a non GW mini over a GW mini is there, take it.

I have already decided to use lots of killa kans in my space ork army, I will be using the AT-43 minis for that, the Red Block walkers, trios of which cost $10 at the warstore. My army is bloodaxe, the solid ww2 industrial look will be appropriate after some tinkering and compared to the price of the killa kans... well, then again compared to the killa kans post any price increase...

I am also going to be looking to build a full WHFB army in the future, prolly a very large one and my intention is to find a decent alternative miniature company and buy from them.

So I won't be able to play in a GW shop with it? I wouldn't bloodywell want to anyway.

Or just play other games like Robo Rally, Wings of War, Tannenhauser, or any number of the free to down load games out there.....

Hells teath, if you just like painting the figures, Helldorado do better, but if your REALLY addicted to plastic crack, then get into historical instead and buy the Perry's stuff... you can stull use GW Rules (ie historical) and plastic figures made by the best GW scuplters..... Or use the figures with a better system like DBM or even Hordes of the Things if you like it more fantasy!

As with any addiction, you don't like it, get that monkey off your back, or atleast trade up for a cheaper monkey!!

aka_mythos wrote:My guess is that these price increase hurt more than help GW. The fact that despite price increases they still haven't managed a sustainable profit growth, shows that they're hemorrhaging potential sales. On top of that they're alienating their fan base who increasingly grow adversarial with GW. I mean there was a time where it felt like GW was doing their best to look after our gaming needs doing us a real service and not in it entirely for the money.

But that time was a long, long time ago. Even in the early/mid 90's, GW was very much 'in it for the money'. Ultimately, they always have been - their approach just comes across differently in a different era. I ran a store myself in the mid 90's, and the GW sales-reps were not hesitant to tell me what their goals and target audiences were. It's not really different today than it was back then, to be honest.

People have been saying a lot of the same things about GW for over a decade now - yet they keep chugging along. Obviously people are still buying the product - price-increases and all. Blaming GW alone - which has a goal to make money from their customers - is silly, in my opinion. Ultimate control rests with us, the consumer: only we control our wallets/purses. No one puts a gun to our heads and forces us to buy GW product each week/month/quarter/year.

Obviously over the years, their bean-counters have determined (through whatever means they use) that raising prices doesn't affect their bottom-line as negatively as some of the posters here assume. People see price-increases, they get angry, and they wonder how GW can afford to do it, even in these tough economic times. The answer is that based on history, they know they can do it, and get away with it. They understand they'll lose some players - but loss of players is a constant anyway. But they bank on the notion that new players will continue to join the fold (new kids with new disposable income arrive every day, and newcomers only 'know' the current pricing and have no reason to be miffed about changes from older pricing). They also know that many of the vets will simply grin and bear it, because many of us have invested so much in the hobby already.

As for the vets who own bazillions of figs and decide to move on - well, thanks for your previous massive purchases. To GW - you're just not the target audience, really. Sure, you may buy some random figs here and there, but the bulk of your purchases are likely behind you, and GW, like most businesses, are very 'what have you bought from me lately?'. Sure, some vets will buy new armies - there are always exceptions. But in general, the average vet has no real 'need' to purchase a new army or product line. Who is more likely to purchase an batallion boxed-set: the vet who owns one (or more armies) already, or the new guy getting into one of their games who owns ZERO figs?

It's not 'wrong' to be upset or frustrated about price-increases. We each just have to examine our own situations and decide for ourselves if we're going to continue paying the price they're asking, taking into consideration the amount of enjoyment/entertainment we each respectively derive from the product.

Just my 2 coppers, though.
Mort

As a brand spanking new player to WH40k, I've gotta say the price increases are already making me second guess GW. I Already have a biker, a grunt, and the CSM battleforce and I'm happy I got a discount on them but iffy on how much to throw into the hobby. Simple fact is that Reaper minis are what i LOVE painting and are very cheap. Warhammer...... Not so much. If GW wants to keep new people coming the price raises have to stop. I have already met several people who want to play but then say no because of cost.

AoD wrote:when's the last time they had a value increase?

I'd say that the $95 Baneblade, $95 Shadosword, and $58 Valkyrie are all "value increases" in that they give you a lot more value (well-fitting, easy-to-build plastic kit replacing a resin kit that requires special assembly techniques). I'd say similar things about the current Ork Battlewagon and Stompa, along with most of GW's WFB plastic Cavalry sets, and the plastic Daemons.

Where GW gets kinda stupid is how they deliberately screw players on things like SM Dreads, SM Termies, SM Land Raiders (& variants), along with repackaging WFB and IG models to drive a higher per-model price point.
____

Mort wrote:Obviously over the years, their bean-counters have determined (through whatever means they use) that raising prices doesn't affect their bottom-line as negatively as some of the posters here assume.

That is untrue. When GW did the big "kill the e-tailers" thing to cap discounts at 20%, that was in effect, a 20+% price increase for a huge number of GW customrs. In response to the pending effective price increase, people bought like crazy at 30+% off. The result was that the market was flooded with low-cost product for over a year. The massive supply increase suppressed demand for years to come.

In my case, I bought very heavily on discount to complete my armies, then didn't buy anything for a good 3+ years, then bought only bitz for a couple years (until GW discontinued "proper" bitz service). It wasn't until Apoc that I started buying any volumes at all.

So based on this experience, significant price changes can cause a lot of negative churn and disruption in their normal market.

Actually my thinking is that in this "Tough Economic Climate" they MUST up pricing.

As a "Luxury Item" they are likely to be suffering some reduction in volume of sales, on this basis they have a lower turnover to cover what are pretty much fixed costs (ok, they buy a little less plastic and lead, but overheads etc pretty fixed) so assuming they have a minimum profit they want to make (given they have shareholders) from a reduced turnover, their ONLY option is increased selling prices to re-inflate the turnover.

Their beancounters will have done the math to assess by how much the increased selling prices will shrink their turnover further, and will have factored that into the numbers to garner a planned profit!

The other route of course is reduced base costs, but you can't cut back tto profitability, its just not a practical model.

Besides, I was thinking the other day about all the other companies who release cheaper models..... There are loads, but there are a few intangables you get for the extra mula you pay GW.

1st off they will still be arround next year, which is actually a pretty big deal!

Secondly your getting the same standard and quality all the time no matter where in the world you are.

3rdly the shear level of support for such a range.... no one comes close that I can think off!

non of that comes free, it all costs, and has to be paid for somewhere, which is included in the increased prices!

Druidic wrote:non of that comes free, it all costs, and has to be paid for somewhere, which is included in the increased prices!

Games Workshop loves people like you. The rest of us will be at the discounters paying 30% less than you.

I use discounters as well, I also use Ebay, I also don't buy stuff.... period. If I can get away with painting and using the stuff I already have I will rather then shell out money on stuff I don't really need! (Please don't look at my gallary and the shelves of stuff I've yet to paint... its embarassing)

I'm not a huge GW fan, I dropped out of the hobbey for some years due to feeling cheated by them, but I came back cause I like their stuff and the game.

I also play alot of other games by other companies a hell of alot more thn GW stuff (I happen to be playing Mordheim more then anything at the moment, but will probably play Wings of War or Magic tonight instead!)

I can't quite get my head arround the demonisation of a company making profits. They make games and figures you enjoy, surely its therefor their right to ask you to pay for them, and if your willing to pay more then market rate, then all the better for them!

A hell of a lot of games companies have gone to the wall in the last 30 years, and GW is still here, there is no greater testament that they have their model right.

the May WD states there will be a price increase in june for metals,plastics and hobby items-doesnt say how much or which items exactly.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Mort wrote:Obviously over the years, their bean-counters have determined (through whatever means they use) that raising prices doesn't affect their bottom-line as negatively as some of the posters here assume.

That is untrue. When GW did the big "kill the e-tailers" thing to cap discounts at 20%, that was in effect, a 20+% price increase for a huge number of GW customrs. In response to the pending effective price increase, people bought like crazy at 30+% off. The result was that the market was flooded with low-cost product for over a year. The massive supply increase suppressed demand for years to come.

Excellent point. However, with that being said, there are a few more details to keep in mind.

If a customer 'bought like crazy' in response to the coming change, there's at least some likelihood they weren't going to buy whatever it was they bought, until goaded into doing so by the coming price-hike anyway. As such, GW in many cases sold more product than they would have, had they not announced the move.

Meanwhile, sales are still continuing even after the price-hikes of the past. Sure, folks such as yourself are smiling with satisfaction that you were able to get some product at the better price before the price-hike/policy change, true, and there are some stores who did like you suggested and made purchases before the pending change in policy, too. But I'd be surprised if there's any significant number of such stores that simply cut out orders completely after the policy-change.

The mistake lots of people make is that they look at the situation in a vacuum - as if they and their buddies and other pre-existing players are GW's only customer base. When actually, there are new players constantly jumping in, too. Not to mention, new product being released on a regular basis that did not qualify for the 'cheaper prices', because those products didn't exist yet at the time of the price hike or policy change.

If you're referring to wholesale prices/sales to stores, and stores 'buying like crazy' before the price-change, that's also a distinct possibilty. Again, though, there's no guarantee that all of the product that Store X bought before the price change would ever have been ordered anyway, had there been no price-change. There's no doubt that some players/stores took advantage of the 'early warning' of the coming price-change/discount modification - just as some players/stores will do between now and June 1st (if that is indeed the new pricing date). But just as in years past, GW will get through it by virtue of direct sales, continued re-orders from existing businesses, release of new products with high demand, etc.

JohnHwangDD wrote:In my case, I bought very heavily on discount to complete my armies, then didn't buy anything for a good 3+ years, then bought only bitz for a couple years (until GW discontinued "proper" bitz service). It wasn't until Apoc that I started buying any volumes at all.

In my case, just getting back into one of their games - I didn't have a choice. For all intents and purposes, I was a 'new player', and those types of players are still coming in (or returning).

If you hadn't bought heavily with the discount before the change, are you 100% sure that you would have bought the same products at regular prices over the next 3 years?

Do you think your buying habits are 'the norm'? Do you think the average 40K player on this forum bought like mad like you did, then didn't buy anything for 3+ years? I'd be surprise if that was the norm, and not the exception, John. But that's just a guess.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
So based on this experience, significant price changes can cause a lot of negative churn and disruption in their normal market.

Sure, it can - but I was just suggesting that GW has a history of price-increases and they've probably anticipated fall-out based on that history. They have pros that look at these things that are a heck of a lot smarter than we are, probably, when it comes to the business end. If raising prices 3-5% on a lot of their stock was going to sink them, I just believe that they'd have a better grasp of that possibility than we would.

For over a decade now I've heard people echo some of the comments in this thread - yet GW still keeps plugging along, new products coming out, stores open in tons of different places, etc, despite price-increases that anger a segment of their playerbase. Being frustrated about the price-hikes is natural, but I just don't see how it's going to significantly affect them this time more than previous instances where this or something similar has taken place. The economic slump didn't start yesterday, they probably have some kind of indication how its affecting them, and yet they've decided to make the educated and informed decision to raise prices. I definitely could be wrong, though, and GW could start closing down all of its stores this summer for all I know.

Thanks for the discussion.

Mort wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:When GW did the big "kill the e-tailers" thing to cap discounts at 20%, that was in effect, a 20+% price increase for a huge number of GW customrs. In response to the pending effective price increase, people bought like crazy at 30+% off. The result was that the market was flooded with low-cost product for over a year. The massive supply increase suppressed demand for years to come.

If a customer 'bought like crazy' in response to the coming change, there's at least some likelihood they weren't going to buy whatever it was they bought, until goaded into doing so by the coming price-hike anyway.

As such, GW in many cases sold more product than they would have, had they not announced the move.

Meanwhile, sales are still continuing even after the price-hikes of the past.

I'd be surprised if there's any significant number of such stores that simply cut out orders completely after the policy-change.

... there are new players constantly jumping in, too.

Not to mention, new product being released on a regular basis that did not qualify for the 'cheaper prices', ...

If you're referring to wholesale prices/sales to stores,

No doubt that people bought more than they normally would have, and then they hoarded.

GW got one really, really good quarter of sales out of this, from those players who had the means to purchase more in advance, or to shift hobby spend around from one game to GW.

Sales continued, of course, but at a minimal rate, rather than a normal rate.

The e-tailers got one last big bang on the way out. GW retail and other B&M got hammered because people made that one last e-buy instead of normal B&M sales. A *lot* of stores folded in the aftermath.

Many new players simply bought out of pre-sold stock via 3rd party / eBay sales - the massive supply increase depressed all second-hand sales. Remember that GW B&M was much smaller then.

New product is a small add-on, and probably sold less than expected, as most existing players were flush with old product.

Store inventory levels wouldn't change, there would be no reason to buy more.

Mort wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:In my case, I bought very heavily on discount to complete my armies, then didn't buy anything for a good 3+ years, then bought only bitz for a couple years (until GW discontinued "proper" bitz service). It wasn't until Apoc that I started buying any volumes at all.

In my case, just getting back into one of their games ...

If you hadn't bought heavily with the discount before the change, are you 100% sure that you would have bought the same products at regular prices over the next 3 years?

Do you think your buying habits are 'the norm'?

Do you think the average 40K player on this forum bought like mad like you did, then didn't buy anything for 3+ years?

You didn't buy used from another player getting out? That's what I've always recommended to n00bs.

It didn't matter. I had trade stock, that allowed me to trade new for new at full retail. The $20 box of Tacticals became a $20 box of Empire Soldiers or whatever. Or I simply sold and pocketed the difference (depressing GW sales). Regardless, GW lost out.

I don't know if my buying habits are the norm, although I will note that my total spend is at the median for members on the site. I'm probably not too far off the norm.

I don't know what others did, but I would suspect they followed similar patterns, but not as extreme.

Mort wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
So based on this experience, significant price changes can cause a lot of negative churn and disruption in their normal market.

They have pros that look at these things that are a heck of a lot smarter than we are,

Being frustrated about the price-hikes is natural, but I just don't see how it's going to significantly affect them this time more than previous instances where this or something similar has taken place.

Thanks for the discussion.

I strongly doubt that GW's "pros" are collectively smarter than I am. If GW's "pros" really were smarter, they would have wound down the e-tailers in a more progressive fashion to minimize disruption to their constant revenue model. Besides, for a long time, GW was more fan-run than an actual business.

If the price hike is small, in line with inflation, then no, it won't be a problem. If it's large, it'll distort things and cause problems.

Same!

The e-tailers got one last big bang on the way out. GW retail and other B&M got hammered because people made that one last e-buy instead of normal B&M sales. A *lot* of stores folded in the aftermath.

Uhhh...what?? Care to elaborate on the 'lot of stores going out of business ' part? That's the first thing I have ever heard of it. Seriously, nothing. Never been brought up on any retailer board. Never heard a B and M retailer complain about it. Had ZERO negative effect on my stores.

The result was that the market was flooded with low-cost product for over a year. The massive supply increase suppressed demand for years to come.

Again, not in my experience. The plural of anecdote is not data. A few people buy up a bunch and don't buy locally for a while. How much did they buy locally before? And how many people buy that way anyway?

Mostly it was e-tailers who folded, along with the "extra" hobby stores in town.

I think it'd be nice if someone put together as an article, that get periodically updated, a series of reviews for some of the better online retailers. It seems people are constantly having to ask about it.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:3-5 for this year... Personally I'm getting tired of it happening every single year. It just seems like a bit of an insult to us. But I'm sure glad it isn't going to be a complete grab as some have said.

At least give us some 'value added' like give us 3 more guardsman or a spruce of all the special weapons for a few bucks more. To half the number of models that seem exactly the same just seems completely ridiculous. $5 for a new battleforce is well and good in my view because of the sentinel and new command squad that's included... It has all the options & other weapons, which is great. But if you're going to charge $35 for 10 guys, they'd better be very special.

In perspective, do we get any added value with Petrol/Fuel? it goes up every month and sometimes week. and sometimes it even goes down. We still complain, but yet if we want to get to work, we fork out the money or 'slug' into metro cities or even take another form of commute.

similarly, we can buy other models that are cheaper, or even mix and match or just fork over the money and use the GW stuff..

in the end, the choice is there.. buy it or don't.. but complaining about it is like pissing in the wind...

Pissing in the wind.... isn't that like getting your own back?

I'll get my coat.....