Saw it on BolS:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/

So 40k blogger Lone Pilgrim reported some juicy nuggets a few days ago, but they kind of got lost in the wind. Highlights are:

-The massive Dark Angel Citadel shown in Planetstrike will be available in plastic!

-Phil Kelly is writing Codex: Dark Eldar.

-Necrons are being worked on, but are further out than Dark Eldar.

-The much anticipated Forgeworld Lord of Change is due out near Christmas.

-The next Forgeworld Book AFTER Siege of Vraks: 3 will focus on Orks vs Elysians.

~Standard caveats on these guys. Go read all the rest of the goodies over at Lone Pilgrim. Of course no official work on a Dark Eldar release schedule, but we hear they are not that far after Space Wolves. There are also apparently some little tidbits regarding their background in Planetstrike, such as their worship of Khaine. Hmm...

Let's hope these rumors are true!

I hope the rumors are true,I like the DE but the current codex is a bit gak,lol.The next FW book also sounds good.

As much as I would like to see the new DE codex, no where in this little blimp does it say that they are directly after space wolves. Just that Phil Kelly is writing it and that they hear they are not far after space wolves, so there could still be another codex in between. EDIT: I take release scheludes with a grain of salt. With what little bit of info this blimp offers it is hard for me to take what they are saying about the release with more then a pinch.

However I will be patiently waiting for my new cron dex

I'm just happy that I didn't have to point to any more links!

The Dark Eldar will be after Space Wolves, we just don't know how much later than Space Wolves they'll be. I'm still looking forward to them, though.

Title edited to be more fitting.

Ktulhut wrote:Saw it on BolS:

Why do people enver quote the actual source when BoLS reposts these things? The info is from "40k blogger Lone Pilgrim" so why does BoLS get the link loving?

Because it was easier to copypasta that link than to do the extra clicking.

Wasn't there a rumour going round that it had been written by Phil Kelly and was ready to go, just waiting for an opportunity to release it?

Deff Dread red Edition wrote:I hope the rumors are true,I like the DE but the current codex is a bit gak,lol.The next FW book also sounds good.

Let's be fair here... the current DE codex is solid. It has always been a competitive book, if a tad on the short side for options. It could definitely use a little fattening, but the book has always been good.

It's the dark eldar MINIATURE LINE that has doomed the DE to suckitude.

And until they get a COMPLETE new line, they will remain the suck.

DeathGod wrote:
And until they get a COMPLETE new line, they will remain the suck.

Hey, good thing they are then right?

Phil Kelly is writing the codex? Shocking! It's almost like he said himself he was writing it at LAST YEAR'S LA GAMESDAY seminar.

And could Jes Goodwin be working on the new miniatures? Perhaps because he said himself he was at LAST YEAR'S LA GAMESDAY seminar and AGAIN on the Games Workshop podcast.

The only thing that is new in this set of rumors is the supposed release date of the codex, everything else was already confirmed by much better sources (the men responsible for the work themselves).

About time looking froward to some new models to

Glee!
Orks versus Elysians!
Elysian Ork Hunters?

pixelgeek wrote:

Ktulhut wrote:Saw it on BolS:

Why do people enver quote the actual source when BoLS reposts these things? The info is from "40k blogger Lone Pilgrim" so why does BoLS get the link loving?

Because no matter where we get the info from , if BoLS has the same info , jerks will reply "ya BoL has it, not news"

There are a few people that does this on regular bases if you post news before they do.

So after Necrons get their update, it will likely be DE or Tau next.

Master Avoghai over on the B&C spoke to Mr Kelly at GD France and he confirmed DE after Wolves.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=166734

Moreover, the 2 next codex concern armies that wait for a very long time a publication : SW and DE, and it would be unfair to delay the release of those codex to update a more recent one.

Iorek wrote:The Dark Eldar will be after Space Wolves, we just don't know how much later than Space Wolves they'll be.

And rightly so, I mean, it's not like the imperium have already had two new codices released this edition... Although to be fair I suppose Space Wolves are as old as DE.

I am so, so, so going to have to bash one of those DA fortresses into a Tower of Skulls.

And bring on the evil panzees. I'm hoping that the powerful and option-heavy yet balanced feel of the Eldar codex is what the DE list looks like, not the uberage the Orks got. Unfortunately I'm guessing that in the current economic climate, there are probably standing orders for codex creep to keep the plastic flying off the shelves.

DeathGod wrote:

Deff Dread red Edition wrote:I hope the rumors are true,I like the DE but the current codex is a bit gak,lol.The next FW book also sounds good.

Let's be fair here... the current DE codex is solid. It has always been a competitive book, if a tad on the short side for options. It could definitely use a little fattening, but the book has always been good.

It's the dark eldar MINIATURE LINE that has doomed the DE to suckitude.

And until they get a COMPLETE new line, they will remain the suck.

QFT. But if Jes is in charge of even a _portion_ of that line, and the pieces are (as rumored long ago iirc) compatible with the craftworld Eldar line, DE will set new standards of awesome for 40K.

What terrible news.

I was clinging to hope GW would move forward instead of wasting limited designers time and sculptors' energy on an army fans resoundingly rejected 10 years ago.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What terrible news.

I was clinging to hope GW would move forward instead of wasting limited designers time and sculptors' energy on an army fans resoundingly rejected 10 years ago.

Yes but 10 years ago was before the time of the emo community. Now that emo and "goth" is a larger base you will see more interested into this emo eldar. J/king

"-The massive Dark Angel Citadel shown in Planetstrike will be available in plastic! "

Nify - nice for GW to throw DA players a bone.

I'm hoping it will include a revised Codex as a "hidden bonus" when you get the box.

Plastic People wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What terrible news.

I was clinging to hope GW would move forward instead of wasting limited designers time and sculptors' energy on an army fans resoundingly rejected 10 years ago.

Yes but 10 years ago was before the time of the emo community. Now that emo and "goth" is a larger base you will see more interested into this emo eldar. J/king

Haven't goths been in decline for the past decade?

Most of the original goths are now accountants with wives, children and 401Ks....

Hey! Maybe they can afford it now!

I console myself with the thought that when it comes out GW models will be far too pricey for anyone to afford a new army.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What terrible news.

I was clinging to hope GW would move forward instead of wasting limited designers time and sculptors' energy on an army fans resoundingly rejected 10 years ago.

No one rejected the army, just the horrible models released. I had been looking forward to DE for a few years in 2nd when I finally got my wish, but the models sucked so bad I didn't start an army. Don't confuse people's desire for the army concept and their distaste for piss poor models.

I do believe that BoLS did give credit where credit was deserved.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What terrible news.

I was clinging to hope GW would move forward instead of wasting limited designers time and sculptors' energy on an army fans resoundingly rejected 10 years ago.

Phil Kelly, Jes Goodwin, dark Elves.

Oh shizzle, this is going to be the bomb dizzle!

What has to come off the shelves to make room for DE?

Space Marines and Orks.

Yeah. They're being discontinued.












...Not.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What terrible news.

I was clinging to hope GW would move forward instead of wasting limited designers time and sculptors' energy on an army fans resoundingly rejected 10 years ago.

Yeah, they could be using that time and energy putting out another loyalist codex. For shame.

Wasn't this reported already?

Both the DE book rumored by Kelly and the reporting in BoLS?

I don't have the time to check the DE rumor links, but I'm pretty sure this DE "news" was covered, prior to the "shelving" announcement.

As always, I only ask that someone *show* something.

Yeah, I could I have sworn I heard that Phil was writing the DE book some time ago through the rumor mill, and there was nothing of substance to back it then either (not to say it isn't happening).

Welll at least its not the pics of those sculpted
Haemonculus (taken at a gamesday in Spain I think it was)again.

Indeed.

But imperial armour six: Whatever it si going to be called
Orks and elysians.

Passes out/.

Yippies!

Why cant we ever get a snitch inside GW with real info and pics? i mean why cant we raise some money and bribe the top brass?

Add a truth serum to the bugman's on open day.

]

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What terrible news.

I was clinging to hope GW would move forward instead of wasting limited designers time and sculptors' energy on an army fans resoundingly rejected 10 years ago.

I have a shelf full of 1st place trophies and prizes I've won with my "resoundingly rejected" army. I don't know what was better, winning the tournaments I've taken them to, or the before look on people's faces that told me how much DE suck just before our game started and then their look after I tabled them with my DE by turn 4 of the game.

Relapse wrote:]

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What terrible news.

I was clinging to hope GW would move forward instead of wasting limited designers time and sculptors' energy on an army fans resoundingly rejected 10 years ago.

I have a shelf full of 1st place trophies and prizes I've won with my "resoundingly rejected" army. I don't know what was better, winning the tournaments I've taken them to, or the before look on people's faces that told me how much DE suck just before our game started and then their look after I tabled them with my DE by turn 4 of the game.

Bully for you.

the fact is the DE were the first full army since Rogue Trader, push heavily in the starter box, and the only army since the squats to be pulled from stores for low sales.

No one can say they didn't get a chance, and they failed. Sure GW can double down on them, but why? Especially when people are clamoring for Lost and Damned, unified Inquisition, Adeptus Mech or a new Xenos.

GW is set on doing two things. First is to support all currently existing armies. Second is to reduce the shelf space each army takes up. Both leading to the inevitable consequence of GW trying to fill that space with something new. GW isn't stupid, even though they stuck by the decision they know that killing squats was a negative and doing the same to DE after saying otherwise would hurt them. GW makes the statement of their desire to continue supporting armies because without that players would be less inclined to drop the $1000 for an army.

No one will really want to start a new army if the lingering prospect of losing support of your armies hangs over your head.

aka_mythos wrote:GW is set on doing two things. First is to support all currently existing armies. Second is to reduce the shelf space each army takes up. Both leading to the inevitable consequence of GW trying to fill that space with something new. GW isn't stupid, even though they stuck by the decision they know that killing squats was a negative and doing the same to DE after saying otherwise would hurt them. GW makes the statement of their desire to continue supporting armies because without that players would be less inclined to drop the $1000 for an army.

No one will really want to start a new army if the lingering prospect of losing support of your armies hangs over your head.

What more support do the Dark Elfs who are also in Space need? They have a codex, they have models, no one bought them, the few who are interested can get them from mail order.

Move on.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:the fact is the DE were the first full army since Rogue Trader, push heavily in the starter box, and the only army since the squats to be pulled from stores for low sales.

No one can say they didn't get a chance, and they failed. Sure GW can double down on them, but why? Especially when people are clamoring for Lost and Damned, unified Inquisition, Adeptus Mech or a new Xenos.

Pushed heavily? Really? Let's take a look, shall we?

Army box: 20 Dark Eldar Warriors, 2 Splinter Cannons. Against 10 Space Marine Tacticals (Missile Launcher, flamer), and a Landspeeder. Not even close in being equal in strength or usefulness. Space Marines win. Dark Eldar lose. Strike one.

Then, second codex out of the gate. A whopping 50 pages, with about 6 of those being army list. Bad/lacking fluff. One page of wargear. Most units stink, badly. Stike two.

Models come out after. Mostly dreck. Strike three.

Gee, if that is GW "pushing heavily", I don't know what to say. Facing off against Marines, limited model selection, poor matchup, second "no fluff" codex. Yeah, they were primed to be a primo army.

And I'm a DE player, build the army in the last two years, it wins more than it loses. Models bad? Yup. Still effective? Yup. If Phil Kelly is writing it, and they decide to actually release it, I think it'll be a solid book. Phil writes good stuff overall, and usually there are one or two powerhouse units/abilities in there as well.

*edited spelling

I removed all the off-topic posts from this thread.

I know it's tempting to bait me, but don't post any more pics of the haemonculus test greens, the Jes Goodwin jetbike, or anything else that we've seen a dozen times before.

And any pictures of ANYone's anus will get you a lifetime ban from Dakka.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:GW is set on doing two things. First is to support all currently existing armies. Second is to reduce the shelf space each army takes up. Both leading to the inevitable consequence of GW trying to fill that space with something new. GW isn't stupid, even though they stuck by the decision they know that killing squats was a negative and doing the same to DE after saying otherwise would hurt them. GW makes the statement of their desire to continue supporting armies because without that players would be less inclined to drop the $1000 for an army.

No one will really want to start a new army if the lingering prospect of losing support of your armies hangs over your head.

What more support do the Dark Elfs who are also in Space need? They have a codex, they have models, no one bought them, the few who are interested can get them from mail order.

Move on.

I think that's pretty unfair to say. Dark Eldar might not be a very popular line, but it is simply because they've had no support in 10 years. Their codex was rushed, their minis sucked, and everyone was buying up the new marine plastics that were released at the same time. Not many people played Orks after their codex and model line stopped being supported for about 7-8 years either, but I didn't hear you clamoring for them to be dropped. When they were re-released with nice new plastics and updated rules, everyone played them.

I respect your opinion Kid_Kyoto, but simply because you don't like the army doesn't mean GW shouldn't support it.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Relapse wrote:]

Kid_Kyoto wrote:What terrible news.

I was clinging to hope GW would move forward instead of wasting limited designers time and sculptors' energy on an army fans resoundingly rejected 10 years ago.

I have a shelf full of 1st place trophies and prizes I've won with my "resoundingly rejected" army. I don't know what was better, winning the tournaments I've taken them to, or the before look on people's faces that told me how much DE suck just before our game started and then their look after I tabled them with my DE by turn 4 of the game.

Bully for you.

the fact is the DE were the first full army since Rogue Trader, push heavily in the starter box, and the only army since the squats to be pulled from stores for low sales.

No one can say they didn't get a chance, and they failed. Sure GW can double down on them, but why? Especially when people are clamoring for Lost and Damned, unified Inquisition, Adeptus Mech or a new Xenos.

I can't deny there's a lot of potential for different armies and hopfully they'll all see light of day. In my own case there's a bit of selfeshness in wanting to see a new DE codex.

Sgt_Scruffy wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:GW is set on doing two things. First is to support all currently existing armies. Second is to reduce the shelf space each army takes up. Both leading to the inevitable consequence of GW trying to fill that space with something new. GW isn't stupid, even though they stuck by the decision they know that killing squats was a negative and doing the same to DE after saying otherwise would hurt them. GW makes the statement of their desire to continue supporting armies because without that players would be less inclined to drop the $1000 for an army.

No one will really want to start a new army if the lingering prospect of losing support of your armies hangs over your head.

What more support do the Dark Elfs who are also in Space need? They have a codex, they have models, no one bought them, the few who are interested can get them from mail order.

Move on.

I think that's pretty unfair to say. Dark Eldar might not be a very popular line, but it is simply because they've had no support in 10 years. Their codex was rushed, their minis sucked, and everyone was buying up the new marine plastics that were released at the same time. Not many people played Orks after their codex and model line stopped being supported for about 7-8 years either, but I didn't hear you clamoring for them to be dropped. When they were re-released with nice new plastics and updated rules, everyone played them.

I respect your opinion Kid_Kyoto, but simply because you don't like the army doesn't mean GW shouldn't support it.

I just wanted to point out that, if you look at SW's whose codex is (or was...) very old, while people dropped them because of their rules, and they couldn't buy them in FLGS's any more, just like DE, they still have a solid base of players willing to buy them.

OK, bad grammar, but I'll fix it later. What I'm trying to say is that Space Wolves and DE both got the shaft in terms of codexes and lost their shelf space. GW didn't discontinue SW, so both SHOULD get a new codex.

Wooo
Phil Kelly AND Jes Goodwin. This codex is going to kick copious amounts of posterior.
Hopefully they increase the amount of fluff in the book (hell the best piece of DE fluff isnt even in the book) and give us some awesome models.

Stop feeding the troll, guys.

I've read KK's posts and he's smarter than this.

So he's ether just trying to get a rise out of DE supporters, or he's irrationally prejudiced against the army because his butt still hurts over Latd's removal from the 40k universe.

How did sales of that codex, and miniature line go KK? As far as I, or anyone at GWS is concerned - that sub army was very unpopular and didn't sell at all. And now you're clamoring for a new codex and miniatures? They had their chance 6 years ago and no-one played them....

Right?

Cruentus wrote:

Pushed heavily? Really? Let's take a look, shall we?

Army box: 20 Dark Eldar Warriors, 2 Splinter Cannons. Against 10 Space Marine Tacticals (Missile Launcher, flamer), and a Landspeeder. Not even close in being equal in strength or usefulness. Space Marines win. Dark Eldar lose. Strike one.

Then, second codex out of the gate. A whopping 50 pages, with about 6 of those being army list. Bad/lacking fluff. One page of wargear. Most units stink, badly. Stike two.

Models come out after. Mostly dreck. Strike three.

Gee, if that is GW "pushing heavily", I don't know what to say. Facing off against Marines, limited model selection, poor matchup, second "no fluff" codex. Yeah, they were primed to be a primo army.

And I'm a DE player, build the army in the last two years, it wins more than it loses. Models bad? Yup. Still effective? Yup. If Phil Kelly is writing it, and they decide to actually release it, I think it'll be a solid book. Phil writes good stuff overall, and usually there are one or two powerhouse units/abilities in there as well.

*edited spelling

There were a few more strikes.

The army did not appeal to most competitive players. It’s a myth that competitive players want to play with challenging armies. Competitive players want to win games. The top armies in tournaments are consistently the most powerful, most flexible armies. People notice when the better players ignore an army.

Another strike was the fluff, which did not appeal to many.

I’d like to see them re-done. But, its not realistic to say they were a popular army as some have suggested. They never were popular, they basically flopped.

Now, who can guess the army in either 40K or WFB that has to go to "Mail Order Only" purgatory to make room for DE?

Iorek wrote:I removed all the off-topic posts from this thread.

I know it's tempting to bait me, but don't post any more pics of the haemonculus test greens, the Jes Goodwin jetbike, or anything else that we've seen a dozen times before.

And any pictures of ANYone's anus will get you a lifetime ban from Dakka.

Better thell Luna. With the frequency she changes her Avatar and Sig picture it's only matter of time until she links the wrong pic fron 4chan


I'm still very sceptical about Dark Eldar. Granted, they have a few pretty cool models like their transport or the Elite Guard....okay, those are the only 2 units I can think that look good
Anyway, they really need some interesting fluff. Desperate like.

Dark Eldar, I think were limited by a generally difficult play style and limited list variation. Also a lot of duds unit rules. At the end of the day poor rule design really limited players options and poor miniatures limited the modeling appeal. But the concepts had something to them that made them distinctive. They deserve to get fixed and once they do, they will have growing fan base and GW can move on.

Man, I can't wait for new Dark Eldar. I've had my color scheme planned out for a year now, I've just been waiting for new models.

I would hope that their vehicles get a powerboost, not necesarrily a boost in killiness. A major boost in survivability would be much liked though. AV 10 can only get you so far.

Iorek wrote:And any pictures of ANYone's anus will get you a lifetime ban from Dakka.

Um, WTF?

Someone actually linked to goatse?

Ew.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Iorek wrote:And any pictures of ANYone's anus will get you a lifetime ban from Dakka.

Um, WTF?

Someone actually linked to goatse?

Yeah, why bother when we all have it set as the desktop wallpaper already, right?

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:Space Marines and Orks.

Yeah. They're being discontinued.












...Not.

I loled.

Anyway, I hope that the forces of the Inquisition get some loving sometime before the next edition comes out. I suppose I have to get in line though, because lots of other races have been waiting far longer.

Yeah, why bother when we all have it set as the desktop wallpaper already, right?

I sigged.

Yay Dark Eldar stuff. These guys are really cool... i mean come on, they are basicly the slavers and pirates of the galaxy, right? Someone has to fill the gap.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
No one can say they didn't get a chance, and they failed. Sure GW can double down on them, but why? Especially when people are clamoring for Lost and Damned, unified Inquisition, Adeptus Mech or a new Xenos.

I have a feeling that Dark Eldar will be that "new" xenos. I'de consider getting them if they were redone, was looking at them as my 2nd army a few years back then I found out you can't get them easily, and their models were dissapointing. I actually built that was it 3rd edition starter set for a friend a few weeks ago (apparently he found one some how unopened), Didn't bother trying to put the DE togther becasue I had no idea where to start and knew that nobody was ever going to use them.

When DE get rereleased I think it will be like the SW update. People will return or start a new army out of nastalgia or the desire to see this "new" army.

I remember being very excited over the first time I ever read about Dark Eldar in the 2nd edition Ultramarine Codex. I thought it would be a fantastic army and waited to see what 3rd edition would bring.

Then, 3rd came out....

These days, the two main armies I play are because of Phil Kelly's writing and/or Jes Goodwin's fantastic miniature capability.

With these two individuals on the same project; sign me up.

I think TSOALR #71 really captured most peoples concept of what the Dark Eldar Where.

DE are my first real army when 90% of the other players were JUST ANOTHER MARINE. Do you know how boring tournament play is? I am all for different armies and they all need support from GW or else they dont sell. I do admit the current DE codex can still hang tough but there are plenty other armies that need a new codex real bad (Tau, Necrons).

Phil Kelly is writing the codex? Shocking! It's almost like he said himself he was writing it at LAST YEAR'S LA GAMESDAY seminar.

And could Jes Goodwin be working on the new miniatures? Perhaps because he said himself he was at LAST YEAR'S LA GAMESDAY seminar and AGAIN on the Games Workshop podcast.

And dont forget Phil Kelly at adepticon last year as well. I think the time schedule is off but that is about it.

DE were my second army back in the 1k days of play and I always had fun with them. They take a lot of thought to build and play as they do tend to be fragile and you cant play them like marines. One mistake can finish you off. I like that challenge. I am really looking forward to new rules and models.

Dear Games Workshop,

Please make Dark Eldar fast and fragile and deadly. I love the idea that one mistake will end the game.

Then, following the track record of "One and done" armies, six months after they hit the shelves, people will be getting rid of their new DE armies for cheap.

I'm a little sad. I was all set to post the Jess Goodwin jetbike prototype and then I was one-upped by the Haemmy greens. And then mod intervention.

I'm very excited about the dark eldar news, although this sort of thing has been common knowledge for quite some time if you troll the forums for all the rumor threads.

Either harry or brimstone stated that following guard, would be wolves and then dark eldar. Amongst other snippets would be a bunch of designers at various GWS events stating "it's time for them to get some love" "I've been working on the plastics for about a year now and I'm 50% done" "DE will not be dropped" and blah blah. The inclusion in the rule book, now planet strike and people in the know stating they have seen models all points to the work being fairly advanced at this point.

I don't see how people can still deny the existence of a new codex looming in the future, in the face of all this evidence, often times coming from the mouths of head designers?

I own the DE Codex, and a decent range of DE models. I've been thinking it would be fun to do an army of them someday, but it's unfair to accuse KK of trolling. After all, he's right: DE were widely rejected by the 40k community.

At the same time that GW discontinued the Squats ("We don't want to be Fantasy in space!") GW released a new army that (fluffwise) was even more "Fantasy in space!" than the Squats. (Living in the Webway, a giant series of strange warp-tunnels, is about as close as you can get to being "subterranean.") It was a poorly conceived fluff background for a poorly designed army that had a poor model range. Some of you seem to see that as a reason GW needs to go back and do it right. But it can also be seen as a reason GW should give up on the idea and move on.

I think the fact that my DE Army has always been envisioned as a "joke army" based on the 1980 Flash Gordon movie instead of a "serious" army says a lot about the current state of Dark Eldar.

Defiler wrote:Either harry or brimstone stated that following guard, would be wolves and then dark eldar. Amongst other snippets would be a bunch of designers at various GWS events stating "it's time for them to get some love" "I've been working on the plastics for about a year now and I'm 50% done" "DE will not be dropped" and blah blah. The inclusion in the rule book, now planet strike and people in the know stating they have seen models all points to the work being fairly advanced at this point.

I don't see how people can still deny the existence of a new codex looming in the future, in the face of all this evidence, often times coming from the mouths of head designers?

While lots of sources have said DE are being worked on (and I believe them), Harry and Brim said something else is coming after SW. And the best guess right now is that it's Tyranids. I'd guess DE in late 2010, but that's only a guess on my part...

Dark Eldar worship Khaine now, that's weird. More Forgeworld is always a good thing.

tll be nice to see the DE make a comeback simply for variety.
the more races out there the better imo...

Am I totally off base in thinking that the rejecgtion of DE wasn't that wide or immediate? I saw more DE than Orks at pretty much all times in 3rd and 4th until the new Ork book, and I think many competitive gamers did play DE for a while.

While I agree with Kid Kyoto's deeper point (that space Dark Elves are silly when there are much more interesting options available), I think there are mitigating factors that explain why the community didn't take DE as thoroughly (poor models, limited tactical options, and the endless barrage of 3rd edition codices, each more broken than the last).

So, in essence, I think that the rejection was milder than many people think, and for reasons that go beyond the sheer concept of Space Drow.

@Polonius:

DE didn't take off like GW wanted, that's for sure. Not like, say, Tau, which have effectively replaced them as the "new" S3 T3 army. Or WFB Ogres. So if you consider the slower than usual / slower than expected uptake a "rejection", then I think it was pretty widespread. Which is why they didn't get more than a token update.

Model-wise, DE weren't so terrible when you consider they were sculpted at the end of 2E for the initial 3E release. They have aged poorly, but that's 10+ years for you. Most models from that timeframe have since been replaced.

Tactically, DE are still a solid, if one-dimensional player. But most other Codices have only one decent build. And with IG, GW is only cementing the mono-build design approach. Codex releases are tied to sales, and GW decided to cut their losses by placing DE in limbo for perpetuity.

Finally, DE aren't Drow - they're spiky Eldar / Dark Elves in space.

And that's the heart of the problem. The concept didn't take off, so it's a failure. But with a printed Codex, GW doesn't want to formally Squat them.

Just wait JHDD. I bet that the Dark Eldar will take off like the Wood Elves did when they were finally released with good models (btw, the old Wood Elf army book was good too, but no one played them cause the models sucked).

And when that happens, I'll make sure I have that plate of delicious crow ready for you.

Everybody likes Wood Elves (they are all so Tolkien). Not everybody liked their playstyle. Not everybody liked Dark Eldar, very few liked their playstyle.

The First Book of the Astronomicon featured Eldar Pirates, including background, pics, and an army list. The Iyaden vs. Tyranid story also featured Eldar Pirates, which saved the Craftworld from Tyranids. So, when GW decides to release Eldar Pirates in the 40Kv3 starter box, waaay back before pirates were cool again, before Pirates of the Caribbean, they choose to ignore the previous cool fluff, and make these S&M pirates with a condensed, confusing, conflicting background. That’s a clear example of missing the marketing trend.

Gobbla wrote:The First Book of the Astronomicon featured Eldar Pirates, including background, pics, and an army list. The Iyaden vs. Tyranid story also featured Eldar Pirates, which saved the Craftworld from Tyranids. So, when GW decides to release Eldar Pirates in the 40Kv3 starter box, waaay back before pirates were cool again, before Pirates of the Caribbean, they choose to ignore the previous cool fluff, and make these S&M pirates with a condensed, confusing, conflicting background. That’s a clear example of missing the marketing trend.

Actually, you have it backwards. No one thought pre-release that DE would be "just pirates." Everyone assumed they'd be Slaaneshi/Chaos Eldar. I'm not saying they should be. But that was the assumption among the customer base, from what I remember about the discussions on the forums/mailing lists of the day. What we got wasn't exactly Slaaneshi Eldar nor exactly pirates, and that's where DE got muddled conceptually.

It's also important to note that GW has always drawn a distinction between Eldar Pirates (like Yriel) and DE. All DE are Eldar pirates, but not all Eldar pirates are DE.

Touche, usernamesareannoying. Touche.

Iorek wrote:Touche, usernamesareannoying. Touche.

I think DE with a decent codex (both from having viable builds and good fluff) and good (mostly plastic) minis will sell very well.

I also think if they'd do plastic SoB that they'll fly off the shelves as well (nuns with guns!).

I don't think how popular the spiky space elves were before has any relation to how popular they'll be this time. We've already covered that they're going to kick butt this time around, so what does it matter that they sucked before? Everyone's going to want to try them regardless because they're going to have a superb miniature range. And plus, with an army getting a total redo, you know you won't be able to walk into a GW store without being pinned to a table and having dark eldar shoved down your throat. Can you imagine the redshirts when this comes out? They're probably going to have fangasms all over the entire store.

I do that sometimes. I'm told they have to chisel it off with a putty knife.

Ozymandias wrote:Just wait JHDD. I bet that the Dark Eldar will take off like the Wood Elves did when they were finally released with good models (btw, the old Wood Elf army book was good too, but no one played them cause the models sucked).

I'll make sure I have that plate of delicious crow ready for you.

First off, the old WE models weren't "bad" for their age by any fair comparison. Second, that WE Dragon *still* rocks. I like it far better than any of the comparable 5E dragons. It is a *very* nice sculpt!

Finally, I've already set the DE not having a Codex by 10/10/10. If the DE get a Phil Kelly Codex with Jes Goodwin minis by then, I'm more than happy to admit my error. But keep in mind that I've said there won't be a DE Codex for over a year, and I have yet to be proven wrong, despite various rumor threads claiming the contrary...

That is why I ask for someone to show something new and real. Surely, if DE actually are being redone for real, there will be some indication.

Yeah, cause the author of the book and the sculptor of the minis saying so isn't an indication...

The Wood Elf Dragon was nice but the crappy Archer plastics were some of the worst ever.

gorgon wrote:

Gobbla wrote:The First Book of the Astronomicon featured Eldar Pirates, including background, pics, and an army list. The Iyaden vs. Tyranid story also featured Eldar Pirates, which saved the Craftworld from Tyranids. So, when GW decides to release Eldar Pirates in the 40Kv3 starter box, waaay back before pirates were cool again, before Pirates of the Caribbean, they choose to ignore the previous cool fluff, and make these S&M pirates with a condensed, confusing, conflicting background. That’s a clear example of missing the marketing trend.

Actually, you have it backwards. No one thought pre-release that DE would be "just pirates." Everyone assumed they'd be Slaaneshi/Chaos Eldar. I'm not saying they should be. But that was the assumption among the customer base, from what I remember about the discussions on the forums/mailing lists of the day. What we got wasn't exactly Slaaneshi Eldar nor exactly pirates, and that's where DE got muddled conceptually.

It's also important to note that GW has always drawn a distinction between Eldar Pirates (like Yriel) and DE. All DE are Eldar pirates, but not all Eldar pirates are DE.

I stand by my timeline, but you're probably right. I guess I wanted them to be pirates like Yriel's. I never warmed up to Slaaneshi Eldar, there were so many Eldar armies painted up to be Slaaneshi.

dark eldar are awesome! I was thinking of making an army out of heavily converted dark elves to make up for the crap models, but it is good to see they are already being worked on by GW. I think I will wait before I make a DE army.

Ozymandias wrote:Yeah, cause the author of the book and the sculptor of the minis saying so isn't an indication...

Yeah, and GW has said they've been "working on" on DE for ages, with nothing to show for it...

That's because Goodwin works slowly, because if the studio tried to rush him it would come out gaky, and they know that.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:Yeah, cause the author of the book and the sculptor of the minis saying so isn't an indication...

Yeah, and GW has said they've been "working on" on DE for ages, with nothing to show for it...

I was under the impression that they had done a lot of development work for DE at some point and eventually just scrapped it all after the project just sort of panned out and overran it's constraints and went on to Tyranids and Tau. Has anyone else heard this?

thedarkside69 wrote:dark eldar are awesome! I was thinking of making an army out of heavily converted dark elves to make up for the crap models, but it is good to see they are already being worked on by GW. I think I will wait before I make a DE army.

See, that is what kind of clinches DE as a poor choice for a new codex: Very rarely (if ever) does one see a "Counts-As DE" army. I am given to understand the codex is pretty good and it is merely the poor models holding back the concept. Now, I will agree that crap models that are hard to get limits an army's desirability, and conversely awesome models models increase it, but look at LatD for comparison. The army does NOT have rules, so another codex, often IG or orks, needs to be used, and the army does not have models, so everything has to be scratch built. Yet you see piles of Lost and the Damned blogs, and near zero Dark Eldar.

That tells me that people just are not excited about the fluff of DE. Not nearly so much as Lost and the Damned at any rate. Were I in charge of deciding which Codex is next, that sort of information would push me away from DE unless I was willing to have them completely rewritten. Hopefully, that is what happens, both that I am put in charge of determinining Codex release schedules, and they rewrite DE something fierce.

Vaktathi wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:Yeah, cause the author of the book and the sculptor of the minis saying so isn't an indication...

Yeah, and GW has said they've been "working on" on DE for ages, with nothing to show for it...

I was under the impression that they had done a lot of development work for DE at some point and eventually just scrapped it all after the project just sort of panned out and overran it's constraints and went on to Tyranids and Tau. Has anyone else heard this?

That was an internet rumor from the latter part of 2008. Since that rumor popped up, GW released a pod-cast (I believe in January or so) where the current sculptor of the new DE line said he was roughly halfway through with the sculpts.

There's a thread regarding that podcast somewhere in the archives on this forum, I believe.

Getting a bit off-topic now, but IMO the problem isn't the specific components of their background but how they're structured. You can usually sum up the best concepts in a few words, and DE are pretty far from that. What's their motivation? Piracy isn't a motivation, it's an action taken because of some motivation. And obviously they're different than run-of-the-mill Eldar pirates. But why? "They're evil" is a motivation of sorts, but a thin one. And "Slaaneshi-like but not technically Slaaneshi" is just plain confusing.

Like we've discussed here before, if you make their background starting point "DE steal souls so that they might live," and then expand upon what that means and entails, most of their other fluff points fall into place. And you get the 5-word summary/hook for the newbies instead of the 5 paragraph explanation.

DE are soul vampires.

Phil Kelly's a good writer. Whether or not this is the specific approach he takes, I think he'll sort it out.

5 words:

DE are emo space elves

Or, more accurately:

You hate them. Nothing new.

I've always thought the Dark Angels were the emo ones.

The Dark Eldar always came off as the fetish ball type to me...

Which, in truth, is why I enjoy them so damn much.

No, that's not hating them - it's merely stating the obvious.

JohnHwangDD wrote:No, that's not hating them - it's merely stating the obvious.

Thank you captain obvious for opening that grave again.

Asmodeus wrote:The Dark Eldar always came off as the fetish ball type to me...

Someone needs to have Bruce Willis and Ving Rhames from Pulp Fiction as captured slaves strapped to a raider.

dietrich wrote:

Asmodeus wrote:The Dark Eldar always came off as the fetish ball type to me...

Someone needs to have Bruce Willis and Ving Rhames from Pulp Fiction as captured slaves strapped to a raider.

LMFAO. That's great. Throw them up on the Dias of Destruction.

dietrich wrote:

Asmodeus wrote:The Dark Eldar always came off as the fetish ball type to me...

Someone needs to have Bruce Willis and Ving Rhames from Pulp Fiction as captured slaves strapped to a raider.

LOL yes, very dark.... elves

John wont be happy til he gets the thread locked hehehe.

BTW John I have followed several of the DE posts as I have a very vested interest in a new book, etc.. and I have noticed that you do tend to show an inflaming hate towards the DE kin. It goes beyond dislike and I was really just curiouse why? Is there something you would like to see them change in the new book or are you just closed minded to the race itself? Not flaming, just curious...

im looking forward to their re-release and with goodwin and kelly on the project (rumored) it looks like GW means business this time around

As a former DE player, I have a lot of annoyance with GW not making up their mind on the DE and stringing people along for years.

After a few years of this kind of rumor nonsense, I now require actual proof, which nobody has been able to provide.

And perhaps, that is the problem that the DE fans have with me. My hopes and enthusiasm has long since faded, but they still hold a candle. I won't believe GW merely saying so, whereas they'll desperately jump on the slightest whisper.

Even this "News" thread is a good example. It's basically yet another retread of *this* which even repeats what's been said before. So really, this isn't "News", and probably should be locked.

But if you have an issue with my posts on DE, it probably behooves you to think about *why* that is the case. Often times, the barb that stings the most is the one that hits closest to the truth.

That is, I believe that the reason people don't like what I say, is because it forces them to consider the reality of the situation that, in all likelihood, their army has actually been Squatted, and like 15 years ago, GW simply hasn't found the courage to say so. Not fun.

Unfortunately, based on GW's past history and all evidence to date, the facts seem to support my interpretation of reality more than the various unsubstantiated rumors that "the DE are coming any day now".


Now, all that said, I look at Codices from a metagame perspective. I don't think DE deserve a Codex, at least, not until my Dogs of War get their WFB Army Book. DoW have been waiting longer than the DE, so talking about years of waiting isn't very persuasive to me when I've waited longer.

And even if I get a DoW Army Book, which is far from certain, would it be "better" (i.e. more profitable) for GW to spend the same effort in redeveloping Dark Eldar as opposed to relaunching LatD with minis support? Or Ad Mech? Or Sisters?

So, presuming that the DE get a new Codex, no, there isn't too much I'd change. The DE army more or less does what it's supposed to do. It's fast & fragile, and it's going to be hard to make DE much faster or more fragile. It still wins just fine, so overall power isn't a huge issue.

The background is actually the biggest problem, aside from the minis still being early 3E. But them being strongly perceived as merely "emo space elves" by nearly all non-DE players doesn't help things at all.

The fact is, DE are a "problem" army that just doesn't mesh well with the 40k gaming universe from a Fluff / background standpoint. I don't know how to fix that, and I suspect that, neither does the GW studio, hence the foot-dragging and nebulous rumors of "working on" with nothing to show for the effort.

Anyhow, a lot of rambling, hope it helps...

Ktulhut wrote:Saw it on BolS:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/

So 40k blogger Lone Pilgrim reported some juicy nuggets a few days ago, but they kind of got lost in the wind. Highlights are:

-The massive Dark Angel Citadel shown in Planetstrike will be available in plastic!

-Phil Kelly is writing Codex: Dark Eldar.

-Necrons are being worked on, but are further out than Dark Eldar.

-The much anticipated Forgeworld Lord of Change is due out near Christmas.

-The next Forgeworld Book AFTER Siege of Vraks: 3 will focus on Orks vs Elysians.

~Standard caveats on these guys. Go read all the rest of the goodies over at Lone Pilgrim. Of course no official work on a Dark Eldar release schedule, but we hear they are not that far after Space Wolves. There are also apparently some little tidbits regarding their background in Planetstrike, such as their worship of Khaine. Hmm...

Let's hope these rumors are true!

This isn't new.

In fact, it isn't even a rumor. We've known about the redux for some time, now.

A real rumor would be that they were actually be getting ready for release, or something.

I've had a DE army since 3d Edition. They sucked them, they will probiblty suck even more , except it will be new suck.
I never liked them. they were just the unfortunate reminents that were left over from getting plastic scenery and multipart Space Marines.


We've been waiting over 5 years for something of substance for the DE, It's high time that GW put up or shut up.

Fishboy wrote:John wont be happy til he gets the thread locked hehehe.

BTW John I have followed several of the DE posts as I have a very vested interest in a new book, etc.. and I have noticed that you do tend to show an inflaming hate towards the DE kin. It goes beyond dislike and I was really just curiouse why? Is there something you would like to see them change in the new book or are you just closed minded to the race itself? Not flaming, just curious...

Oh jeez, you gave him a chance to type up a reply *all* about himself.

Short answer to your question : DD's parents were raped by DE. Shocking and tragic, but very, very true. :(

JHDD the point is there is proof yakface said it was happening he is in the know he knows people that work for gw and like I said in the sw thread to shuma there is no need to troll someones thread just cause you want them locked.

I always find it highly amusing when a poster suggests we lock a thread.

What are some of the new DE choices supposed to be?

Will they finally get a super heavy that you don't have to kitbash?

I think a complete redesign is a good idea for Dark Eldar. The problem with DE, right from beginning, is that they were a thin concept stretched thin over a very thin Codex. The first few 3rd Ed Codices were, quite frankly, terrible books. They were devoid of fluff, you were into the rules by page 5 (if not earlier) and you never got the feel of the army.

That said, I don't think they should change the core concepts of the Dark Eldar, and make them Chaos Eldar or anything absurd like that. I actually like the whole "hiding in plain sight" thing they do with Slaanesh (as opposed to using Spirit Stones) and their lack of psykers (due to not having Ghost Helms to protect themselves). It's a very fatalistic style of Eldar, and that's good for the game.

Just less bondage material and spikes. I shouldn't have to wear mesh gloves when using a DE army for fear of slicing my fingers open.

And isn't Jonnyboy is like Dakka's own little holocaust denier, only replace "holocaust" with "Dark Eldar" or perhaps even "logic".

JohnHwangDD wrote: The DE army more or less does what it's supposed to do. It's fast & fragile, and it's going to be hard to make DE much faster or more fragile. It still wins just fine, so overall power isn't a huge issue.

I disagree, John. The problem is the Dark Eldar are fast & fragile. Fluff-wise, that is very cool. But as it applies to actual tabletop gaming, it only appeals to some (I know, I played them for years, and I never once had a partner in crime). Most gamers simply are not drawn to an army that wins or looses by turn 3 (or 2, or 1).

BTW, I've been away from 40K for about 5 years. We were having these exact same discussions about DE when I left, so I feel like I'm in a time warp).

I'd prefer it if they split the Eldar race differently. Two books that fit their Titles.

1)Craft World Eldar-Name say it all and the book contains rules for building each craftworlds armies.

2)Eldar: Exodites and Outcasts- Deals with areas of the Eldar too long overlooked. Barbaric frontier Eldar, Pirate/Corsair Eldar, and The Dark Eldar Armies.

One book deals with the Eldar with the tech and discipline to resist Slaneesh, The other focuses upon the fallen who do not follow the path to the infinity circuit. The ones that show mankind that he still has a bit to learn about how to be viscious.


Just my opinion.

When I started playing this game I found I had a taste for the destructive and violent. My choices came down to Tyranids, Necrons, Chaos Space Marines, and Dark Eldar. A friend already played CSM so I decided not to go with it since I wanted to avoid a duplicate army in the gaming group. The Necron WBB rule was cool, but I felt that combined with phase-out might be a little much to start with for me as a newbie knowing nothing at all about the game. I was left with Tyranids and Dark Eldar. Tyranids are a faceless force seeking to devour the universe (as far as we know anyway) and the Dark Eldar are violent elves. I've always hated elves in RPGs and fantasy games/books for being "above all others" and generally being jerks. So when I saw elves being violent, destroying, burning, and pillaging all that they find leaving a bloody and ruined trail in their wake I was all over it. However, this was near the end of 4th edition when we knew a 5th ed rulebook as on it's way. My friend played Eldar as his main army, with around 2k or so points of dark eldar and a few Necron models. He's a fan of the ancient races and similar themed things. We talked for a moment about Dark Eldar and he and I both agreed the army is fantastic in concept, but lack of support from the creating company troubled him. In the end I chose Tyranids because I didn't see much future for the Dark Eldar until I came to find Dakka and threads about the Dark Eldar. I've since bought around 30 warriors and a ravager. They're just sitting around. Seeing people talking about Dark Eldar has given me faith in their return. I'll probably finally start the army I would have played if they get a codex update. If not I'll just have some neat models, no real loss. As to why I don't play normal Eldar, despite reading the fluff and understanding they're not the shiny and high-and-mighty elves. They have a troubled past and a troubled future, but their models have too much of the elegant shiny elven influence for my taste.

Summary: I think that by seeing support from it's creators people will have renewed faith in the longevity of a Dark Eldar army and start one where before it's lack of support made them shy away from an army they otherwise may have enjoyed.

Grot 6 wrote:A real rumor would be that they were actually be getting ready for release, or something.

Depends what you mean 'getting ready for release' they are not due out this year but earlier than I thought in 2010.

The models are amazing (with Jes doing them could they be anything else) that conflicts with my bias against T3 pointy ears.

Speaking of models Brim, didn't you and Yak see some of them a while back?

Kind've puts an end to DD's little "Not happening" crusade if you ask me.

Gobbla wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote: The DE army more or less does what it's supposed to do. It's fast & fragile, and it's going to be hard to make DE much faster or more fragile.

I disagree, John. The problem is the Dark Eldar are fast & fragile. Fluff-wise, that is very cool. But as it applies to actual tabletop gaming, it only appeals to some

Right, and limited appeal is the point of the army. In 40k, there are only so many archetypes and concepts possible. Dark Eldar get the fast & fragile one, and in exchange for that, nobody else duplicates their strengths and weaknesses. This makes DE unique, and solidifies their position within the metagame.

If you make DE noticably less fragile, then they start to overlap the Eldar design space, and especially the Tau. That's not good for any of the 3 Xenos races which should each have a distinctive character in how they play.
____

focusedfire wrote:I'd prefer it if they split the Eldar race differently. Two books that fit their Titles.

1)Craft World Eldar-Name say it all and the book contains rules for building each craftworlds armies.

2)Eldar: Exodites and Outcasts- Deals with areas of the Eldar too long overlooked. Barbaric frontier Eldar, Pirate/Corsair Eldar, and The Dark Eldar Armies.

One book deals with the Eldar with the tech and discipline to resist Slaneesh, The other focuses upon the fallen who do not follow the path to the infinity circuit.

IIRC, Exodites have Infinity Circuits of a sort, so the only Eldar who don't are Harlequins and Dark Eldar. Exodites really aren't like Dark Eldar from a conceptual standpoint. Though they are very poorly developed, so it's possible they could be retconned into Dark Eldar in green... Anyhow, that 2nd book probably overloads quickly, without any clear focus. Or it's 2 or 3 separate lists, which is probably confusing.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Speaking of models Brim, didn't you and Yak see some of them a while back?

Kind've puts an end to DD's little "Not happening" crusade if you ask me.

I did and yes it does.

Can't say much more about them at the moment because I was asked not to and on this sort of stuff I keep my word.

But if you have an issue with my posts on DE, it probably behooves you to think about *why* that is the case.

Thanks for the response and makes sense. I too am a little frustrated with the lack of release so have been working on other armies until they are released. Tired of the tease but I think the news we have received recently seems to back the fact that they are redoing them...I hope hehe.

I think with the Eldar re-write and the detailed cover of the fall pretty much sets the stage for the Dark Eldar. Basically the DE are really the Eldar before the fall. They created Slannesh who destroyed their way of life so kinda makes sense as to why they are not worshiping him.

Either way I am looking forward to seeing real items myself and will continue to work in other races until DE become a reality.

I think HBMC raises a really good point: those early 3rd edition codices were very thin, and pretty awful. The rules were all over the place, there was almost no fluff, and they contained the worst tactical advice possible (the IG book at one point stated "ALWAYS take 2-3 commissars", at a time when 1 was pretty much the maximum for serious play).

The best bit of DE fluff was the story from a White Dwarf where Asdrubel Vect tells the story of the DE to a prisoner, and actually, you know, explains who the DE are and why they do things. Why wasn't that in the codex?

I mean, there is a way to really give some Pathos to the army: they're long lived beings that are terrified of death, because when they die they're souls are owned by Slaanesh. Rather than live the ascetic life of the craftworlds, they react in the opposite way: by bribing Slaanesh with more souls and pain than he could possible get from simply killing eldar. What would make them more interesting, I think, would be to connect them more fully to the other races of eldar. Maybe the DE's slave raids and sacrifices don't just protect themselves, but also the exodites, or even the craftworlds.

In terms of game play, they were a total mismash. IG style gunline squads, KoS style raider squads, decent bikes, the best light assault troops in the game and some fun characters, plus a bunch of filler, made the list pretty thin. I'd imagine they'll have more than 2-3 choices per FOC slot in the new book, with more options for playing.

Fluff-wise, I think there is room for a simply selfishly evil race. Game-play wise, I think the 5th edition rules are built for an ambush/raiding style army like DE. Toss some good models out there, and DE can be successful.

Sigh...I just want to keep playing with what I have and wait to see what GW does a year or so down the road, without all these constant and painfull reminders that GW esentially considers my favorite army a "side project".

gardeth wrote:without all these constant and painfull reminders that GW esentially considers my favorite army a "side project".

They don't, well let me say they don't anymore.

They are getting a major wedge of plastics and almost the entire range created by the best sculptor GW has.

The codex is being written by the acknowleged expert on 'Xenos codices'

I wouldn't call that a side project.

No matter what industry you're talking about, you can tell a lot about a project based on the resources assigned to it.

JohnHwangDD wrote:As a former DE player, I have a lot of annoyance with GW not making up their mind on the DE and stringing people along for years.

And we get to the root of John's hate. Bam. Right there.

Brimstone wrote:

gardeth wrote:without all these constant and painfull reminders that GW esentially considers my favorite army a "side project".

They don't, well let me say they don't anymore.

They are getting a major wedge of plastics and almost the entire range created by the best sculptor GW has.

The codex is being written by the acknowleged expert on 'Xenos codices'

I wouldn't call that a side project.

I heart you Brimstone. That has made my day. Mmm... Dark Eldar...

Asmodeus wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:As a former DE player, I have a lot of annoyance with GW not making up their mind on the DE and stringing people along for years.

And we get to the root of John's hate. Bam. Right there.

I've had similar feelings about both Orks (which I played in third and fourth) and Space Wolves.

I think the design studio is at least attempting to become more 'professional'. JJ even made the comment a few Adepticons ago, that in the past, they had relied totally upon 'inspiration' as to their next project. Now, they have tried to establish the number of armies that they are going to support, and these armies will be regularly updated and supported.

A lot of GW haters will say, "but then they do more marinez! hurr!" Which, is true. But, Marinez sell. At least Orks finally got a new codex. SWs are rumored to be just around the bend, and the DE sometime in the year or so. That's a huge improvement. Now, Nids are still hanging out there, along with Tau and Necrons and the Inquisition books (which, iirc, DH is third and WH fourth). But, it seems like they're at least trying to improve their support of lines, and not just leaving out there to wither and die. If there's still some third or fouth edition books floating around when Sixth Edition launches, then I'd say they're full of it.

DE are in the fifth edition rulebook. I think that was a huge, 'we're serious about keeping them around and updating the line' commitment from GW. How many squats were in the third edition rulebook?

JohnHwangDD wrote:After a few years of this kind of rumor nonsense, I now require actual proof, which nobody has been able to provide.

Brimstone wrote:
Depends what you mean 'getting ready for release' they are not due out this year but earlier than I thought in 2010.

The models are amazing (with Jes doing them could they be anything else) that conflicts with my bias against T3 pointy ears.

Brimstone, would you be talking about these?



Looks like pretty definitive proof of work on the DE codex and model range to me!

Damn, Whitedragon, why did you have to post a pic of your ass?!?!

I replaced it with the haemonculous greens pic, just to clear the thread.

Sheesh.

What I'm debating is whether or not I'm going to upgrade my 50+ painted Dark Eldar Warriors for the new plastics. I love new plastics, but I hate painting models... Hmmm...

I'd be totally down with new bikes and other support choices though!

whitedragon wrote:

Brimstone wrote:
Depends what you mean 'getting ready for release' they are not due out this year but earlier than I thought in 2010.

The models are amazing (with Jes doing them could they be anything else) that conflicts with my bias against T3 pointy ears.

Brimstone, would you be talking about these?



Looks like pretty definitive proof of work on the DE codex and model range to me!

Amazing, new DE greens?

Iorek wrote:Damn, Whitedragon, why did you have to post a pic of your ass?!?!

I replaced it with the haemonculous greens pic, just to clear the thread.

Sheesh.

Yea, my bad, I somehow linked the wrong one .

Ozymandias wrote:What I'm debating is whether or not I'm going to upgrade my 50+ painted Dark Eldar Warriors for the new plastics. I love new plastics, but I hate painting models... Hmmm...

I'd be totally down with new bikes and other support choices though!

Somewhere somebody did a conversion/kitbash of eldar and dark eldar helmets and what not to make really nifty DE warriors. I'm thinking its the guys that did the female cadians. Phoenix Club or something like that. Look at their forum, but it's a totally nifty way to make them that looks pretty sharp!

I'd much rather see 'arby' write the DE codex - this way we can see no change to units that suck (but have nifty new models) and crippling changes to units that once formed the core of a DE list ('arby' making sweeping changes to say....jetbikes)

(/sarcasm)

I want to see new stuff before I unbox my DE army.

Brimstone wrote:Can't say much more about them at the moment because I was asked not to and on this sort of stuff I keep my word.

And a fat lot of good it does me or anyone else.

Sorry, but that's no credible evidence at all.

Oh god JHDD. We all know Brimstone is 99% spot on with rumors. You doubting him now is just being obtuse.

So? Hearsay isn't evidence - it's just more of the same old tease that you guys are jumping all over. We had the very same stuff said 6 months ago, before they were "shelved" indefinitely.

Maybe they saw the stuff, maybe not. GW wasn't sure enough to actually show anything then, and still isn't sure enough now.

So maybe the DE are going to be "redone" again, for the third? (fourth?? fifth???) time.

This latest Phil Kelly / Jes Goodwin rumor has gone on for roughly a year now, and we *still* have nothing to show for it.

I'm calling BS until such time that Yak or Brim or GW has the balls to give a definitive release date with actual preview models and rules information.

And I'm calling BS on your reasoning and lack of faith.

I had some faith that I was going to get new DE up until the 3rd round of rumors early in 4th Edition.

At this point, I refuse to let GW get my hopes up for no good reason just on somebody's unconfirmed say-so.

After multiple disappointments with the SW codex coming out, and despite the recent rumors, I have a bit of JHDD's attitude as well - until I have a SW codex in my furry mits, I'm not not believing it.

But, I think GW is working on SWs and DE both.

SW were announced for September, so you're good.

2009 is
Q1 - Apoc wave (Stompa & Shadowsword)
Q2 - Imperial Guard
Q3 - Planetstrike,
Q4 - Space Wolves

SW were announced for September, so you're good.

That is hilarious. We have about as much credible evidence for SW in September as we do DE next year. 'Hearsay' as you call it, all around.

Only thing different is we now have a month instead of end of year.

BrookM wrote:And I'm calling BS on your reasoning and lack of faith.

Lack of faith? How much more faith could you possibly expect? It's been ELEVEN YEARS! Whole game systems have arisen and crashed down in the time since the last Dark Eldar model release. GW and FW have introduced several full armies since 1998, it seems pretty plausible that DE were an experiment that failed and which they do not have much of an interest to rebuild.

Agamemnon2 wrote:It seems pretty plausible that DE were an experiment that failed and which they do not have much of an interest to rebuild.

Except they have a full layout in the 5th Ed. Rulebook.

Granted.

They had one in the 4th ed book too, a fat lot of good that did them.

Yeah but the 5th ed one has different designs than what we're used to, showing progress.

Or perhaps, like GW often does, the current illustrator didn't bother looking at any of the previous artwork?

Quick - how many versions of Power Armor have appeared in GW's Rulebooks and Codices?

Right!

Agamemnon2 wrote:

BrookM wrote:And I'm calling BS on your reasoning and lack of faith.

Lack of faith? How much more faith could you possibly expect? It's been ELEVEN YEARS! Whole game systems have arisen and crashed down in the time since the last Dark Eldar model release. GW and FW have introduced several full armies since 1998, it seems pretty plausible that DE were an experiment that failed and which they do not have much of an interest to rebuild.

Considering that we have information from reliable sources that say the models are getting done, I would not consider DE canceled at all. They just needed a total rework.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Or perhaps, like GW often does, the current illustrator didn't bother looking at any of the previous artwork?

Quick - how many versions of Power Armor have appeared in GW's Rulebooks and Codices?

Right!

Ok, now you are being deliberately obtuse!

And trolling.

And being incredibly annoying.

Yo, Pot, there's a Kettle who wants to have a word with you...

Riiiight. Cause non-trolls always go to rumor threads and deny any rumor, even by credible sources who have seen things first hand.

I can understand the position of someone who is bitter about their codex being ignored in favour of whatever the designers think is THE AWESOME (what an AWFUL way to run a company, seriously).
Read my early posts about the ork codex on this board.
Dark Eldar should have been redone a long time ago, and Daemonhunters, Witch Hunters and Black Templars shouldn't exist.

If those "credible sources" had something to show, or GW followed up with something to confirm those sources, then there might be something to your point.

As it is, I'm far more inclined to believe that the DE rumor-mongers are the trolls here.

So go troll the SW thread a bit too. Cause those same 'trolling' rumor-mongers are the only source of info we have. Guys like Phil Kelly and Jes Goodwin, on top of Brim and the rest.

And I'd remind that Space Wolves have also suffered from incorrect rumors, like the one from 4ed that it was already written when the SM dex came out. That one kicked around for awhile. Doesn't mean SW were never getting fixed.

The difference being, of course, that SW are actually on schedule for a September release...

As in, 'no, we're not pulling your leg... They're finally getting fixed'?

winterman wrote:So go troll the SW thread a bit too.

feth No! Our SW thread has had more than enough DE Hate spewing as it is .

The difference being, of course, that SW are actually on schedule for a September release...

Hypocrite Troll is Hypocritical.

What schedule? What evidence outside of rumor mongers? What pics? I am not seeing any official GW release schedule for September, if there is then I'd love a link.

Now, I have seen some rumor mongers state September for SW -- same folks saying DE are in the pipeline along with folks from GW. Basically you aren't holding the SW rumors (or any rumors really) to the same stringency as you do DE. It is really kinda strange.

GW haven't strung SW along like DE.

And where are the rumored DE changes?

Apples & oranges, buddy.

It appears this thread has gone the way of all locks.

JohnHwangDD wrote:GW haven't strung SW along like DE.

And where are the rumored DE changes?

Apples & oranges, buddy.

They see me trollin, they hatin... Moderatin and tryna catch me postin dirtay.

Alternatively...

You didn't have to be prescient to see this coming...