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Post by: Frazzled
I was on conference call with people - NYC. Plane flew by at their height. They freaked. Building evacuated. A PR show and you didn't tell anyone you were going to fly a 747 low over downtown NY City!!! People should be fired. Now.
http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts/military.jets.nyc.2.995375.html
Military Jets Flying Over NYC Part Of Photo Shoot
FAA Confirms F-16s, 747 Seen Flying Near Statue Of Liberty Affiliated With Department of Defense Photo Op
CBS 2 Flooded With Phone Calls From Concerned Residents, WorkersNEW YORK (CBS) ―
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numSlides of totalImages Related Slideshows 2009 Celebrity Deaths Funniest Caption Contest More Openly Gay Celebrities Celebrities Separated At Birth? Jessica Simpson: Then & Now Celebs Who Lean To The Right Hooray For The Red, White And Zooom! Hottest Female Athletes Best Picture Blunders Hottest Celebrity Moms Some military aircraft flying over lower Manhattan caused a brief scare for residents, workers, and pedestrians on Monday, but CBS 2 has learned the jets are part of a Department of Defense photo shoot and that there is no threat to the city.
According to many callers who flooded CBS 2 with their concerns, at about 10 a.m. the aircraft were seen flying at low altitudes over the Statue of Liberty and parts of lower Manhattan. The Federal Aviation Administration confirmed that two F-16s escorting a Boeing 747 were part of the Department of Defense photo shoot.
Some residents and workers who saw the aircraft evacuated their buildings as a result, but officials say there is no reason for a panic. Many people could be seen in Jersey City by CBS 2 Chopper HD leaving their buildings and gathering into the street.
Air Force officials say this was a photo mission for their crew. They were shooting from the Statue of Liberty to south of the Holland tunnel, as well as from the Newark Bay to north of the Staten Island Expressway.
Officials say the shoot was part of a normal training mission. They added that they do these mission quite often.
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Post by: Darkreaver55
If by fired you mean strung up over hot coals and slow-roasted, I agree. What in Chaos were these people thinking?
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Post by: Jin
Sigh.
Seriously, who the hell is in charge of this stuff? I'd be freaked as hell too if I were in a sky-scraper in Manhattan and saw a low-flying 747. Bad enough that a plane landed in the Hudson fairly recently, but having planes doing fly-bys.
Idiots.
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Post by: Frazzled
Off the phone with people there. Circled four times. The conspiracy theory is already out that its a cover story for something else. Cool pic but can't send.
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Post by: dietrich
Sounds like whoever did this PR blunder has a future in Obama's cabinet.
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Post by: sexiest_hero
Sigh, ok from your friendly Airforce service man to worried peoples. The Military does fhoto op shots like this all the time. A 747 protected by two f-16s' flying over the Statue of Liberty, the message being your skies are safe. It's been going on since a few years after 9-11, and like the Official says we do these missions over the Statue of Liberty often and have given advanced warning every time. They circle so they can use the best of four shots, and it's a normal part of the mission to do so. Somebody who Didn't pay attention to the ample heads up paniced and people, being people, paniced right along.
"and you didn't tell anyone you were going to fly a 747 low over downtown NY City!!! "
They were fore-warned, and besides, we have to train how to handle a rogue passenger plane, how do you think we do that, by putting the damned planes in the are and running simulations and drills, and hey if we can take a few good pics while at it all the better. We work our asses to the death to protect you civilians, and if that means scaring people who didn't pay attention to our heads up, or missed the other frequent missions we do over Lady Liberty then so be it. We'll still fly over American skies, keeping them safe as you call for our dismissal, or make crazy theories that turn us from normal Americans to Government boogy-men. It's our duty, and our honor.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
You all scare to easily. I lived under the takeoff and landing airway of the Brunswick Naval Air Station for 20 years. Low flying planes are cool, especially when they are 40 feet over your car.
New york has one of the busiest airports on the planet in it. I would think people would be used to seeing low flying aircraft and military fighters.
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Post by: Frazzled
sexiest_hero wrote:Sigh, ok from your friendly Airforce service man to worried peoples. The Military does fhoto op shots like this all the time. A 747 protected by two f-16s' flying over the Statue of Liberty, the message being your skies are safe. It's been going on since a few years after 9-11, and like the Official says we do these missions over the Statue of Liberty often and have given advanced warning every time. They circle so they can use the best of four shots, and it's a normal part of the mission to do so. Somebody who Didn't pay attention to the ample heads up paniced and people, being people, paniced right along.
"and you didn't tell anyone you were going to fly a 747 low over downtown NY City!!! "
They were fore-warned, and besides, we have to train how to handle a rogue passenger plane, how do you think we do that, by putting the damned planes in the are and running simulations and drills, and hey if we can take a few good pics while at it all the better. We work our asses to the death to protect you civilians, and if that means scaring people who didn't pay attention to our heads up, or missed the other frequent missions we do over Lady Liberty then so be it. We'll still fly over American skies, keeping them safe as you call for our dismissal, or make crazy theories that turn us from normal Americans to Government boogy-men. It's our duty, and our honor.
Respectfully, sigh my  . They should have just photshopped this-how many bucks did they blow?
What kind of ing head idiot thinks flying a 747 at building level in NY chased by fighters is going to instill anything but terror?
If you're going to play lets pursue the plane then 1. do it over the ing Mojave Desert; use a C-17. You DON'T do it over the one place to actually get hit like that. Of course this was actually a photo op not some sort of drill. They stated that.
Seriously, anyone who thinks this was in any way smart needs to be working in the dishcleaning subsegment of food service.
FYI there was no "heads up" given.
Again, fire them.
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Post by: Frazzled
ShumaGorath wrote:You all scare to easily. I lived under the takeoff and landing airway of the Brunswick Naval Air Station for 20 years. Low flying planes are cool, especially when they are 40 feet over your car.
New york has one of the busiest airports on the planet in it. I would think people would be used to seeing low flying aircraft and military fighters.
Shuma its not the low flying planes. Its low flying passenger planes over NYC where other planes killed lots of people.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
Frazzled wrote:ShumaGorath wrote:You all scare to easily. I lived under the takeoff and landing airway of the Brunswick Naval Air Station for 20 years. Low flying planes are cool, especially when they are 40 feet over your car.
New york has one of the busiest airports on the planet in it. I would think people would be used to seeing low flying aircraft and military fighters.
Shuma its not the low flying planes. Its low flying passenger planes over NYC where other planes killed lots of people.
Yes, I'm sure living in fear your entire life due to a single event in americas history is the right way to do things. Or were you afraid before that happened? You realize that when you let an act of terrorism change your outlook on life and behavior your empowering their action? You don't let terrorism change the way things work so that people don't fear common events like aircraft photo ops. You tell people to suck it the feth up and move on.
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Post by: Frazzled
Yes I am sure a 747 flying by your window, the same window that overlooked the Towers, wouldn't cause you the least bit consternation.
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Post by: smiling Assassin
I have to agree with Shuma here.
We have to swallow it, move on. Trust me, you don't want to be stuck in an Underground Train tunnel when a bomb goes off, as much as you don't want your office block crashed into with a jumbo jet.
See what I did there? Which is the most probable, a bomb in the Underground in London, or a gaking jumbo jet crashing into a skyscraper in one of the financial hubs of the world.
I can't run from the asian with the backpack sitting across from me on the Underground mostly every day. What about a fly-by, can you guys deal with that?
Yes, low-flying aeroplanes are frightening. So is it when you see a young asian man muttering under his breath, carrying a backpack, on a packed train.
But, they should have said something -- however we can (ruthlessly?) put it, that's not a funny thing to play without warning.
sA
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Post by: Frazzled
Whats the issue with Asians on a subway?
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Post by: smiling Assassin
7/7 Bombs?
Packed Underground stations, people going about their daily business. Bang. London halts, screaming from the subways. Somewhere around 60 dead -- nothing compared to 9/11, but it rings true in Londoners' minds as a nightmare. Nightmarish.
We've had terrorism before, perhaps bitterer, more frightening, but being reached out and touched from somewhere not in the British Isles is frightening without measure. And on the Underground, too: where would you go? Crawling in the liquid that used to be Human bodies, as I quote from a Police Officer on the day "finding earrings with their backs still attached."
Oh, sorry Frazzled, I don't think I answered you. I mean asians as in Middle Eastern men. You see?
sA
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Post by: halonachos
Shuma, I live between two naval air stations and yes seeing the low flying planes is frikkin awesome. Recently one of them dropped a training bomb(non explosive) by mistake, it landed in a storage facility so it was all good. 5 or so years back, one of them crashed on base and we could see the explosion. Still, I am not afraid of the planes (at least they're on our side).
I think what frazzled is saying is that having a 747 fly near a skyscraper will always bring up that issue and that fear of what might happen. The same thing with the subway bombings, if a britisher sees an asian fellow on the trolley acting suspicious, they may be terrified as they recall what happened before.
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Post by: reds8n
halonachos wrote: if a britisher sees an asian fellow on the trolley acting suspicious, they may be terrified as they recall what happened before.
nah, we're all dead on the inside.
We don't do fear.
We'd tend just to roll our eyes and "tut". Maybe write a letter to the Times complaining about it later.
The comedian Rich Hall did a good skit about this.... I'm sure it's been linked here before.
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Post by: halonachos
Everyone's dead on the inside, what makes you think the british are so special for being dead on the inside?
National Lampoon made fun of situations like that; the whole "tut tut" if something bad happens. They got into a car crash and the british guy gave his bumper to them as a souvenir.
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Post by: sexiest_hero
But there was warning, all protocals were followed.
Flying in a cramped city is a lot different than flying in the desert, you need actual on hand experience, Just think how much more harder it is to fly a high speed fighter trying to corral a jumbo jet, in the middle of New York city. Guess what, in 2001 we didn't know how to do that. The planes were highjacked, and by the time the airforce came up with a plan people were dead. Now with this training, Our Ace pilots are learing to wind through towers and force other planes away from building and monuments, These pilots are training to be able to scatter and cover these places within 10 min of news of an high jacking, all skills you can't learn flying around in a empty desert.
Lasty, A normal military mission has more than one objective, like air drop troops here then go on to land supplies there. Likewise, the mission here involved training, AND THEN, a fly by of Lady Liberty. As I said before the military will train to keep you safe, like it or not. You can always go back to the color code terror chart, because that helps a lot better than rigorous, on site training...
(Sorry if this sounds a little personal I don't mean it as such)
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Post by: Frazzled
No, all they were doing was escorting the plane. It was a photo op. They are not going to go highway to the danger zone through the steel canyons of Manhattan.
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Post by: halonachos
That sounds cool. I want to see some F-18s zooming around New York. Someone should make a movie with that in it, forget flying through a chasm in movies.
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Post by: Frazzled
Curses, now I have that horrific Kenny Logans song stuck in my head. Anyone have an ice pick, or failing that, a hand grendade? AGGGGHHHH!
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Post by: sexiest_hero
So they were buzzing building or flying over the statute.
Or like I said both.
Oh and GOOSE, NOOOOOOOOO!
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Post by: Frazzled
NYC Mayor Bloomberg Blasts Flyover as "Insensitive" and "Ill-Conceived"
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=7439287&page=1
Air Force One Photo Op Triggers Panic in Manhattan
NYC Mayor Bloomberg Blasts Flyover as "Insensitive" and "Ill-Conceived"
By MARK CRUDELE, RICHARD ESPOSITO and LISA STARK
April 27, 2009
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SHARE New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg is "furious" over a Department of Defense low-altitude flyover of NYC in the area around Ground Zero this morning, calling it "ill-conceived" and a "waste of taxpayers' money."
A photo shoot involving a 757 spurs frightened calls from people in Manhattan.A photo shoot involving a 747 used as Air Force One and one fighter jet flying at low altitude led to hundreds of frightened calls from residents and workers in Lower Manhattan this morning, triggering memories of 9-11 as many evacuated their offices. The president was not aboard.
At a White House press briefing Monday afternoon, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs dodged questions about the flyover, even referring the media to the White House (that he represents).
Gibbs said he had no other information about the flyover other than news reports he had seen. "I was working on other things," Gibbs said. "You might be surprised to know I don't know every movement of Air Force One or what happens to it."
Click here to watch Bloomberg and Gibbs speak about the flyover.
Although the shoot was authorized, the normal system of public notification broke down, multiple officials said.
The DOD would not answer specific questions about the promotional flight.
Bloomberg said he was so furious he wasn't told about the photo op, that before he talked further to his own staff and agencies about the lack of notice to him, he wants "to calm down."
"Poor judgment would have been a nice way to put it," Bloomberg said of the government flyover.
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Post by: Typeline
ShumaGorath wrote:
Yes, I'm sure living in fear your entire life due to a single event in americas history is the right way to do things. Or were you afraid before that happened? You realize that when you let an act of terrorism change your outlook on life and behavior your empowering their action? You don't let terrorism change the way things work so that people don't fear common events like aircraft photo ops. You tell people to suck it the feth up and move on.
I don't know Shuma, I get pretty freaked out when I see too many people in red coats in one area.
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Post by: halonachos
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Post by: sexiest_hero
Soo somebody forgot to pass the memo along at some point. We sent it out, did our part, and we get the blame anyways.
"Officials say the shoot was part of a normal training mission. They added that they do these mission quite often."
It was part of a bigger training mission, part as in there were other parts of the mission. If the pilots are the ones cosen to protect Air Force One or the pilots os said craft, then training is very important.
They do these missions quite often. This isn't even the first time or an isolated event, just a case of lost papaerwork.
"Although the shoot was authorized, the normal system of public notification broke down, multiple officials said"
So what we have here is an approved mission, training and a photo op, a misplaced Public Noticication paper.
Oh noes, not a simple clerical error!
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Post by: Frazzled
And hundreds of people are freaked out. But hey, at least Obama got his cool photo op, so its ok.
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Post by: dogma
Its Manhattan. Everyone is freaked out about something at all times. You can't live on the island without being high strung.
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Post by: sexiest_hero
I'm sure it was an idea cooked up by the PR or DoD. Like every other promotional video made for the military, or handshake and smile taken of the President. I'm sure the first thing on Obama's mind was "did that Public Notification paper make it through all the red tape for that typical and very usual training mission and photo shoot. I hope so, it's far more important than the two wars, economey, and flu virus I have to deal with today."
Edit :Jim Peters, an F.A.A. spokesman, said “the photo op was approved and coordinated with everyone.” Notification was made in advance to the mayor’s office, “including its 911 and 311 operation centers,” the New York City Police Department, the New Jersey State Police, the United States Park Police and other agencies, he said.
The Police Department confirmed that it had been notified about the event
A senior administration official said that an F.A.A. official notified Mayor Bloomberg’s office last week about the flyover. She said that Marc Mugnos, the director of operations in the office of citywide event coordination and management, was the official notified about the Air Force operation.
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Post by: Frazzled
Panic I can believe in
Ordered by the White House no less
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/air.force.one.2.996457.html
FAA Memo: Feds Knew NYC Flyover Would Cause Panic
Threatened Federal Sanctions Against NYPD, Secret Service, FBI & Mayor's Office If Secret Ever Got Out
Furious Obama Apologizes: "It Will Never Happen Again"
CBS News Interactive: Sept. 11 And Since Reporting
Marcia Kramer NEW YORK (CBS) ―
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An F-16 fighter jet trails a larger military aircraft over Lower Manhattan Monday, April 27, 2009, conducting a photo shoot that panicked thousands of New Yorkers who believed the city was in jeopardy for another terrorist attack.
Christopher Talbot, WCBS-AM Listener
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Dozens of people evacuated outside 17 State Street after military jets were seen escorting a 747 in Manhattan on April 27, 2009.
CBS
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Ellen in Bayonne, NJ took this photograph of a military jet escorting a 747 over lower Manhattan.
CBS
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Recriminations After NYC Jet Flyover Photo Op (4/28/2009)
Related LinksWCBS-TV Local Coverage
A furious President Barack Obama ordered an internal review of Monday's low-flying photo op over the Statue of Liberty.
CBS 2 HD has discovered the feds will have plenty to question.
Federal officials knew that sending two fighter jets and Air Force One to buzz ground zero and Lady Liberty might set off nightmarish fears of a 9/11 replay, but they still ordered the photo-op kept secret from the public.
In a memo obtained by CBS 2 HD the Federal Aviation Administration's James Johnston said the agency was aware of "the possibility of public concern regarding DOD (Department of Defense) aircraft flying at low altitudes" in an around New York City. But they demanded total secrecy from the NYPD, the Secret Service, the FBI and even the mayor's office and threatened federal sanctions if the secret got out.
What are your feelings on federal officials demanding the NYC flyover be kept secret by the NYPD and the mayor's office?
"To say that it should not be made public knowing that it might scare people it's just confounding," Sen. Charles Schumer said. "It's what gives Washington and government a bad name. It's sheer stupidity."
The flyover -- apparently ordered by the White House Office of Military Affairs so it would have souvenir photos of Air Force One with the Statue of Liberty in the background -- had President Obama seeing red. He ordered a probe and apologized.
"It was a mistake. It will never happen again," President Obama said.
The NYPD was so upset about the demand for secrecy that Police Commissioner Ray Kelly vowed never to follow such a directive again and he accused the feds of inciting fears of a 9/11 replay.
"Did it show an insensitivity to the psychic wounds New York City has after 9/11? Absolutely. No questions about it. It was quite insensitive," Kelly said.
The cost of the frivolous flight was about $60,000 an hour and that was just for Air Force One. That doesn't include the cost of the two F-16s that came along.
The mayoral aide who neglected to tell Mayor Michael Bloomberg about it was reprimanded.
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Post by: Miguelsan
My father, a former 747 pilot, did just the same a few years back on a training flight. While doing an aborted approach maneuver, instead of breaking E at the runway he went W, just all over downtown Madrid, and right pn top on our place. The sight of a 747 couple hundred meters on top of me with the engines roaring to gain height was the coolest thing I have ever seen.
Be as afraid as you want but as almost everything can be used to commit a terrorist attack I simply refuse to be scared 24/365 like the Media and the politicians want.
M.
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Post by: Fallen668
Why do you hate the military?
Why have you let the terrorists win?
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Post by: halonachos
Okay, it was a photo op. They fly the plane, take pictures of it in front of famous monuments, and use the photos as souvenirs.
It had memos and such, but they decided to keep it a secret from everyone else like the NYPD, the Mayor, and the whole population of NY.
The thing is, Obama blamed the military. Hey Barack, you're in charge of the military! Truman said "The buck stops here." Obama is to blame for this whole thing. If he didn't know that this photo op was going to happen, then he obviously is not a good leader.
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Post by: Frazzled
It actually came from the Whitehouse. The Whitehouse office of military affairs is still the Whitehouse.
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Post by: halonachos
Exactly. Chances are Obama knew about this as he's the guy in charge and should've said "Hey, don't do that.". There are some options as to what happened;
1) Obama knew about it, allowed it, and blamed the military. This means he's an idiot and has to find a scapegoat and quick.
2) Obama didn't know about it. He's a poor leader who can't keep components of his own whitehouse under control.
3) The military went crazy and wanted to fly planes around the city and take pictures of all the scared people running around. We're all doomed.
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Post by: halonachos
FAIL
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Post by: reds8n
halonachos wrote:Exactly. Chances are Obama knew about this as he's the guy in charge and should've said "Hey, don't do that.". .
I would imagine that the President is perhaps quite busy and doesn't actually check every single thing the extensive USA military is performing each and every day.
That in itself would be a full time job I would suggest.
NEW YORK -- It was supposed to be a photo op that captured images of an Air Force One plane with a majestic Statue of Liberty in the background. Instead, it turned into a public relations nightmare that led to recriminations from the president and mayor and prompted thousands other to ask, "What were they thinking?"
Just before the workday began on Monday, an airliner and supersonic fighter jet zoomed past the lower Manhattan skyline. Within minutes, startled financial workers streamed out of their offices, fearing a nightmarish replay of Sept. 11.
For a half-hour, the Boeing 747 and F-16 jet circled the Statue of Liberty and the Financial District near the World Trade Center site. Offices evacuated. Dispatchers were inundated with calls. Witnesses thought the planes were flying dangerously low.
But the flyover was nothing but a photo op, apparently one of a series of flights to get pictures of the plane in front of national landmarks.
It was carried out by the Defense Department with little warning, infuriating New York officials and putting the White House on the defense. Even Mayor Michael Bloomberg didn't know about it, and he later called it "insensitive" to fly so near the site of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
The director of the White House military office, Louis Caldera, took the blame a few hours later. One of the planes was a 747 that is called Air Force One when used by the president.
"Last week, I approved a mission over New York. I take responsibility for that decision," Caldera said. "While federal authorities took the proper steps to notify state and local authorities in New York and New Jersey, it's clear that the mission created confusion and disruption. I apologize and take responsibility for any distress that flight caused."
When told of the flight, President Barack Obama was furious, a White House official said on the condition of anonymity to discuss private conversations.
Still, federal officials provided few details and wouldn't say why the public and area building security managers weren't notified. They also wouldn't address why someone thought it was a wise decision to send two jets into New York City, all for a few photos with the Statue of Liberty as a backdrop.
An administration official said the purpose of the photo op was to update file photos of the president's plane near the Lady Liberty.
This official said the White House military office told the Federal Aviation Administration that it was updating file photos of Air Force One near national landmarks. The official requested anonymity to give more details than the official White House announcement.
An Air Force combat photographer took pictures from one of the fighter jets, administration officials said.
The photo op was combined with a training exercise to save money, according to another administration official who also spoke on condition of anonymity because she was not authorized to speak publicly about the behind-the-scenes discussions about the flight.
The FAA notified the New York Police Department of the flyover, telling them photos of the Air Force One jet would be taken about 1,500 feet above the Statue of Liberty around 10 a.m. Monday. It had a classified footnote that said, "Information in this document shall not be released to the public or the media."
"Why the Defense Department wanted to do a photo op right around the site of the World Trade Center catastrophe defies the imagination," Bloomberg said. "Poor judgment would be a nice way to phrase it. ... Had I known about it, I would have called them right away and asked them not to."
NYPD spokesman Paul Browne said typically a flight like this would be publicized to avoid causing a panic, but they were under orders not to in this case. They regularly get requests for flyovers, but without secrecy restrictions.
The FAA also alerted an official in the mayor's office, but he didn't tell Bloomberg, who said he first learned about it when his "BlackBerry went off crazy with people complaining about it."
The Bloomberg official who was notified was Marc Mugnos, director of operations for the Office of Citywide Event Coordination and Management. Mugnos didn't immediately respond to questions about why he didn't tell the mayor; Bloomberg's spokesman Stu Loeser issued a statement saying: "He has been reprimanded and a disciplinary letter will be placed in his file." Workers in lower Manhattan were stunned by what they saw.
John Leitner, a floor trader at the New York Mercantile Exchange Building, said about 1,000 people "went into a total panic" and ran out of the building around 10 a.m. after seeing the planes whiz by.
"We were informed after we cleared out of there," Leitner said. "I kind of think heads should roll a little bit on that."
Employees of the Wall Street Journal also left their desks to see what was going on.
Kathleen Seagriff, a staff assistant, said workers heard the roar of the engines and then saw the planes from their windows.
"They went down the Hudson, turned around and came back by the building," she said. "It was a scary scene, especially for those of us who were there on 9/11."
Air Force spokesman Vince King said the "photo mission" involved one of two VC-25 aircraft. The aircraft is part of the Presidential Airlift Wing, based at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland.
The F-16 jet that flew alongside came from the D.C. National Guard's 113th fighter wing.
"This was a photo shoot. There was no need for surprise," Sen. Charles Schumer said. "There was no need to scare thousands of New Yorkers who still have the vivid memory of 9/11."
Obama was perhaps busy, checking each and every banknote printed, ensuringt the post was delivered and shoring up levys.
Was a fething dumb idea still though.
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Post by: malfred
Frazzled wrote:Whats the issue with Asians on a subway?
The Japanese Aum Shinrikyo cult.
Don't ask me how I know.
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Post by: halonachos
The president wears multiple hats, he's supposed to be able to multitask. It was his fault and he decided to sacrifice the military office of the whitehouse to the media and the country to save himself. I would like him more if he said "Hey, my bad.".
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Post by: ShumaGorath
halonachos wrote:The president wears multiple hats, he's supposed to be able to multitask. It was his fault and he decided to sacrifice the military office of the whitehouse to the media and the country to save himself. I would like him more if he said "Hey, my bad.".
I'm pretty sure he has more important things to worry about. Like the two wars were in, the global recession, the overblown pandemic, rogue states, negotiations with hundreds of countries and all those other things that are more important than tracking every god damn military maneuver and photo op that takes place every single god damn day on this fething planet.
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Post by: halonachos
So military maneuver's aren't important you say...
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Post by: Frazzled
I don't blame Obama for not knowing. Thats not a reasonable belief. But it is his White House adn those are his direct people. There used to be a time when the buck stopped somewhere instead of passing the buck, but that time is long past. As they are his direct staff he has the power to immediately terminate the mothers with extreme predjudice. (to be clear not his fault but has ability to fire them without a problem so should do so IMMEDIATELY)
Truman: the man, the myth, the legend.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
So military maneuver's aren't important you say...
I don't think you even know what that word means. Or what anything means. In any topic. You're like a black hole of critical thinking where nothing good comes back from.
I don't blame Obama for not knowing. Thats not a reasonable belief. But it is his White House adn those are his direct people. There used to be a time when the buck stopped somewhere instead of passing the buck, but that time is long past. As they are his direct staff he has the power to immediately terminate the mothers with extreme predjudice. (to be clear not his fault but has ability to fire them without a problem so should do so IMMEDIATELY)
As opposed to not blaming the military structure that followed all procedures and instead blaming the dude that got the information and refused to do his job and pass it onto the public. Or his boss. Or anyone else.
Oh wait, he's getting a stern letter in his record. Woo.
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Post by: Frazzled
ShumaGorath wrote:
So military maneuver's aren't important you say...
I don't think you even know what that word means. Or what anything means. In any topic. You're like a black hole of critical thinking where nothing good comes back from.
I don't blame Obama for not knowing. Thats not a reasonable belief. But it is his White House adn those are his direct people. There used to be a time when the buck stopped somewhere instead of passing the buck, but that time is long past. As they are his direct staff he has the power to immediately terminate the mothers with extreme predjudice. (to be clear not his fault but has ability to fire them without a problem so should do so IMMEDIATELY)
As opposed to not blaming the military structure that followed all procedures and instead blaming the dude that got the information and refused to do his job and pass it onto the public. Or his boss. Or anyone else.
Oh wait, he's getting a stern letter in his record. Woo.
I think we're in agreement. The person who tried to keep it secret should be fired. The person who had the bright idea should be fired (at worst do it on a weekend). The person blaming this on the US military instead of a white house flunky should be fired.
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Post by: halonachos
They're blaming it on the military office in the whitehouse, I think it begins with a C and the guy's a civilian IIRC. A civilian in charge of the military office, genius!
He knew about this though. Air force one is used to travel and also for evacuations. Now, you're telling me that he wouldn't keep track of where his escape plane would go to and where it was? Oh sure there's marine one, but he probably doesn't know where that was either.
Not only that, but he's saying that he wasn't told. They were all told, but for the sake of security they decided not to tell anyone in the NYPD, Park Police, the Mayor's office, or anyone else. They were taking pictures and should've told them that this was happening because the president was not on the plane. So they say that Air force one is flying around and the president is not on board. Then why would terrorists even try to shoot it down?
So when blame had to be placed, the president blamed someone else like a pansy would. He needs to take responsibility for either:
1) Doing this stupid photo op.
2) Not knowing where his plane was and what the US military is doing.
3) Allowing someone to keep it a secret even though they knew it would scare the poor people of New York.
Whoever decided that this was supposed to be secret from the public to protect a freakin plane needs to be fired as well. I mean, people would've loved to see this if they KNEW it was air force one flying around. Instead they ran in terror because they didn't know.
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Post by: Wolfstan
It's nice to see that your side of the pond is as moronic as ours. We have a USB pendrive with data go missing due to 3rd party contractor, the public scream for the minister in charge of that department to be sacked. A stupid photo op happens and you scream for the president to take responsibilty. If these people knew about it and let these mistakes happen, then they should go, that's stating the obvious. However in the real world, they are unlikely to of known about it and as far as I'm concerned they shouldn't have to take responsibility for it. The person or persons who should be punished are the ones directly involved.
When all of us achieve a state of perfection and know EVERYTHING that goes on around us, we will be in a position to judge. Until that point I would suggest we keep our traps shut.
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Post by: halonachos
Well, this is up with Al Capone not knowing where his get-away car is.
Air Force one is the primary way for the president to escape from harm.
We had a laptop stolen with information about all of our veterens once. Oh and once somebody stole a laptop from the FBI.
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Post by: Ghost in the Darkness
Jesus Christ the guy who needs to be blamed is that stupid mother fether in the mayor's office, who was told but neglected to tell the damn mayor. The police knew about it. It was the fething mayors job to tell people this gak is happening. Don't just blame the Whitehouse or the Military when some damn New Yorker was to lazy to get off his ass to tell his boss something.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
So when blame had to be placed, the president blamed someone else like a pansy would. He needs to take responsibility for either:
1) Doing this stupid photo op.
2) Not knowing where his plane was and what the US military is doing.
3) Allowing someone to keep it a secret even though they knew it would scare the poor people of New York.
Whoever decided that this was supposed to be secret from the public to protect a freakin plane needs to be fired as well. I mean, people would've loved to see this if they KNEW it was air force one flying around. Instead they ran in terror because they didn't know.
1. He didn't do the photo op, are you dense? 2. The president does not control the day to day affairs of airforce one, two, marine, or that stupid helicopter. They are there at his request, and it's their job to cater to his needs, but just like a god damn taxi when it's not moving his ass around it's off his radar. As it should be. He has better things to think about then the off period flight plan of a plane when he's not even in it. 3. If he's on record as not knowing. And it was a new york mayoral office aid that kept it a secret. And the military followed all standard procedures. How the hell did Obama intend to keep it a secret while knowing it would scare people. You haven't read any of the articles here. As always you've made crap up in your head then posted as if it were real. Seriously. Stop doing that.
Jesus Christ the guy who needs to be blamed is that stupid mother fether in the mayor's office, who was told but neglected to tell the damn mayor. The police knew about it. It was the fething mayors job to tell people this gak is happening. Don't just blame the Whitehouse or the Military when some damn New Yorker was to lazy to get off his ass to tell his boss something.
Holanochos lives in another world.
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Post by: Ghost in the Darkness
Ignore this, I can't look.
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Post by: Frazzled
Modquisiiton on
Gentlemen, even in the OT politeness is required. Posters that atatck other posters, if continued, will be dealt with.
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Post by: Smashotron
Guys, that's not a plane. It is clearly just a weather balloon. Nothing to see here, move along.
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Post by: halonachos
Air Force spokesman Vince King said the "photo mission" involved one of two VC-25 aircraft. The aircraft is part of the Presidential Airlift Wing, based at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland.
The Bloomberg official who was notified was Marc Mugnos, director of operations for the Office of Citywide Event Coordination and Management.
The photo op was combined with a training exercise to save money.
Should he be fired, not really. It wouldn't change the fact that it told the mayor to keep it a secret from the public.
I want to know what kind of training exercise personally.
Some questioned why the U.S. would spend an estimated $40,000-an-hour on the photo op.
Seriously guys, its called photoshop.
The FAA notified the New York Police Department of the flyover, telling them photos of the Air Force One jet would be taken about 1,500 feet above the Statue of Liberty around 10 a.m. Monday. It had a classified footnote that said, "Information in this document shall not be released to the public or the media.
Again, why was it a secret thing if the president wasn't on it? Seriously whoever said it should be a secret from the public is a moron.
President Barack Obama said Tuesday it was a mistake for one of his official airplanes to be sent soaring past lower Manhattan for a photo shoot. He said it will not happen again.
It's Obama's official plane, he had control over it. If he can't watch every military branch or each individual wing, he should at least know where HIS own devoted air wing is.
Oh and shuma, marine one IS the helicopter he rides in. Just to let you know.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
Oh and shuma, marine one IS the helicopter he rides in. Just to let you know.
Ahh. For reference you should separate articles you quote and your own words.
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Post by: halonachos
I should, but I won't.
PS: Not trying to be snide, I'm just lazy.
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Post by: ShumaGorath
halonachos wrote:I should, but I won't.
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Post by: halonachos
Planning my next facepalm causing comment.
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Post by: halonachos
Wait... I can't facepalm for my own comments can I?
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Post by: Golden Eyed Scout
You could also do this to be insanely stupid on a monday.
Wear a doctors mask, and say it's because of swine flu. Then eat as much bacon as humanly possible.
This would mostly piss people off, but it's still pretty stupid.
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Post by: Ketara
Does everyone in America live in constant paranoid fear of low flying aircraft?
I used to live next to Heathrow, if I'd had sensibilities like that, I would have gone insane a long time ago.
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Post by: greenskin lynn
i fear not the low flying planes....but bears.....they are another story
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Post by: Ratbarf
Glad to know Colbert is still relevant.
And anyways, the deal with this stuff is that you are always responsible for your subordinates. It may be their fault but its your ass. Always.
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Post by: Gwar!
Growing up at the Hight of the IRA bombing Campaign, I can safely say I run Screaming from buses if I see so much as a Plastic bag without someone with it.
The US has had a grand total of ONE major attack by foreign attackers against it in recent years. Yes it was a big one, but get over it.
However, I agree that the dumb idiot who thought this up should have issued a public notice about it, or just paid some poor college kid $500 and got him to GIMP it.
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Post by: Ketara
Ah, the IRA. Now there was a REAL terrorist organisation. Not like these namby pamby islamic ones we get today.
They REALLY knew how to conduct a campaign of terror. None of this one bang and we're done malarkey.
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Post by: LuciusAR
This is pictorial summary of this story:
This is pictorial summary of this thread:
That is all.
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Post by: Cheese Elemental
Mountains shaped vaguely like male genitals?
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
Cheese Elemental wrote:Mountains shaped vaguely like male genitals?
Maybe you should see a doctor...
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Post by: halonachos
Ah, the summary of the story is a stockphoto and the summary of the thread is that mountains have snow on top, that's what makes them different from hills.
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Post by: Gwar!
OMG NEW DEVOLPMENTZ!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8041257.stm wrote:Aide resigns over NY plane scare
A White House aide has quit over his role in a low-level fly-past by a presidential plane that caused panic in New York.
A statement from the White House said President Barack Obama had accepted the resignation of military office director Louis Caldera.
The photo opportunity fly-past prompted the evacuation of number of offices.
The president has ordered a review to make sure such an incident is not repeated, the White House said.
The half-hour fly past by a presidential jet and a fighter plane on April 27 was a photo opportunity that did not involve Mr Obama.
Pentagon officials said the fly-past had been co-ordinated with city and state authorities, though no general public notification was issued in advance.
The flight startled scared the gak out of New York residents who correspondents say are still scarred by the September 2001 attacks in which hijackers flew planes into the World Trade Center.
Tasteful edit for emphasis.
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Post by: Frazzled
The turkey who ok'd this resigned today.
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Post by: Gwar!
Frazzled wrote:The turkey who ok'd this resigned today.
Yes I already said that. Wake up lazy!
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Post by: chromedog
Sigh.
I always thought Noo Yawkers were made of sterner stuff.
It used to be a badge of honour to be a tough guy. The old "I saw three tours in 'nam!" - "yesh, so? I live in Noo Yawk! Who's the tough guy now?"
Afraid of a couple of planes flying over?
The heads-ups were given. Looks like just the politicians in charge of passing on the messages were doing their same-old, same-old and not passing them on.
Media beat-up, and Noo Yawker beat off.
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Post by: malfred
We need to have lots of low flying aircraft going over New York. Break their paranoia.
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Post by: Railguns
So this was a fail on the Noo Yahwk city officials side of things? I guess I'm not particularly surprised, but still a small bit disturbed that someone who works for the city dropped the ball for something with such obvious potential scare-power.
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Post by: Frazzled
No. It was a FAIL on the Whitehouse side of things.
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Post by: Gwar!
Frazzled wrote:No. It was a FAIL on the WHITEhouse side of things.
Just making sure we all know whitey is to blame and not the awesomeness that is Barack Obama </Humourous-lighthearted-joke-about-white-people>. I mean, I know he is the president, but he cant be expected to know what every singe one of his braindead aides are doing at once.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
While I do believe this is both the fault of the Whitehouse aid, and NYC Aid, and maybe to a lesser degree Barack's.
I would just like to know how many people instantly would have assumed it was Bush's fault had it have taken place during one of his terms.
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Post by: Gwar!
BrotherStynier wrote:While I do believe this is both the fault of the Whitehouse aid, and NYC Aid, and maybe to a lesser degree Barack's.
I would just like to know how many people instantly would have assumed it was Bush's fault had it have taken place during one of his terms.
Thats only because Bush would be stupid enough to order this himself. Barack is able to tie his own shoes and wipe his own arse so we know he couldn't have ordered it.
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Post by: Frazzled
But only if he is reading those directions off a teleprompter 
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Post by: Gwar!
Frazzled wrote:But only if he is reading those directions off a teleprompter
Well, when you consider bush didn't have so much a "Teleprompter" as a "man with a clown puppet and cards with crayon pictures"...
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Post by: Frazzled
We can vote ours out. Your queen is forever
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Post by: Gwar!
Frazzled wrote:We can vote ours out. Your queen is forever
Lies, our queen was only from... errrr.... whenever Cromwell set up the commonwealth. That's right, we were a republic even before you were (albeit temporarily).
Plus anyway, given the choice between a haemophiliac racist Christian upper class guy and a brain-dead racist Christian brain-dead moron as our head of state, I pick the former. Then move to Canada!
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Post by: reds8n
Frazzled wrote:We can vote ours out. Your queen is forever
Not quite true.. abdication etc... all over an American !Honestly !
Charles isn't very popular and it wouldn't surprise me if when the time comes there's a long hard look at the future role of the/any "royal" family.
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Post by: mcfly
Gwar! wrote:Plus anyway, given the choice between a haemophiliac racist Christian upper class guy and a brain-dead racist Christian brain-dead moron as our head of state, I pick the former. Then move to Canada!
Which one do you view as Bush?
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Post by: Gwar!
reds8n wrote:Frazzled wrote:We can vote ours out. Your queen is forever
Not quite true.. abdication etc... all over an American !Honestly !
Charles isn't very popular and it wouldn't surprise me if when the time comes there's a long hard look at the future role of the/any "royal" family.
Well, it's a good thing that either he will die before the queen (more than likely) or that he will change his name to Henryetta or something (we all know what happened to the last two King Charles, so I think he will use the right to pick a throne name ) mcfly wrote:Gwar! wrote:Plus anyway, given the choice between a haemophiliac racist Christian upper class guy and a brain-dead racist Christian brain-dead moron as our head of state, I pick the former. Then move to Canada!
Which one do you view as Bush?
Well, considering that the Haemophiliac comment was a stab at the high prevalence within the highly inbred royal families of Europe, Bush is most certainly not upper class, and Charles is not Brain-dead, I thought It would be obvious. 
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Post by: Frazzled
Oh contraire, Bush is quite upper class. The family is worth in the hundreds of millions IIRC.
Brain dead. Call me when you graduate from one of the top 10 schools in the world.
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Post by: Gwar!
Frazzled wrote:Oh contraire, Bush is quite upper class. The family is worth in the hundreds of millions IIRC.
Money (made by parents) != Class. Brain dead. Call me when you graduate from one of the top 10 schools in the world.
Money (used by said parents) != Smart. And srsly why are you defending him? He gave both Americans and Texans a bad name, which is a shame because one of my Friends here is from Texas and he is awesome 
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Post by: Frazzled
Gwar! wrote:Frazzled wrote:Oh contraire, Bush is quite upper class. The family is worth in the hundreds of millions IIRC.
Money (made by parents) != Class.
Research GWAR, it helps so much. The Bush's have been considered blue bloods for multiple generations. If it helps, they didn't come from Texas.
Brain dead. Call me when you graduate from one of the top 10 schools in the world.
Money (used by said parents) != Smart.
Again, put up or shut up. What vaunted establishment of education did you arise from? Unless its Ivy League you're just blowing smoke out your arse to use a Grotsnikism.
And srsly why are you defending him? He gave both Americans and Texans a bad name, which is a shame because one of my Friends here is from Texas and he is awesome
1. He's a former US President. You aren't.
2. Time will reflect much more favorably on his presidency. Iraq was a very bad idea and almost a failure. The initial budget debacle and not trying to head off the housing nightmare in 2006 can be laid at his feet. But the same can be said for Congress. He did stop Al Qaeda and his administration worked well in the 2002-2003 recession. We'll see how this adminstration does, after two years of budgets that are 4x as large as anything in history adn after we again treat terrorism as a crime.
We'll see how popular he is when he starts releasing Gitmo terrorists into the US. We'll see what the economy is like in 2012. We'll see.
However, the fact Europeans hate Bush is always a positive. You guys love Obama yet haven't lifted finger one in requests, so who's the better President?
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Post by: Gwar!
Frazzled wrote:Again, put up or shut up. What vaunted establishment of education did you arise from? Unless its Ivy League you're just blowing smoke out your arse to use a Grotsnikism.
No offence, but an English Primary School probably teaches more in one year than he has learnt his entire life. At the very least UK primary Schools teach us how to write our own name. 1. He's a former US President. You aren't.
You point? How does being Elected (under conterversial Standards I might add) to be a government puppet make him any better than me?
2. Time will reflect much more favorably on his presidency. Iraq was a very bad idea and almost a failure. The initial budget debacle and not trying to head off the housing nightmare in 2006 can be laid at his feet. But the same can be said for Congress. He did stop Al Qaeda and his administration worked well in the 2002-2003 recession. We'll see how this adminstration does, after two years of budgets that are 4x as large as anything in history and after we again treat terrorism as a crime.
Riiiiiight. As for Al Qaeda, tell that to the operatives still in Iraq and Iran.
We'll see how popular he is when he starts releasing Gitmo terrorists into the US. We'll see what the economy is like in 2012. We'll see.
Yes, "terrorists" that have never been charged with anything and have never had any proof of terrorism brought against the, At least when the UK locked up Irishmen we had SOME evidence.
However, the fact Europeans hate Bush is always a positive. You guys love Obama yet haven't lifted finger one in requests, so who's the better President?
Obama has been in office approx 100 days....
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Post by: Frazzled
No offence, but an English Primary School probably teaches more in one year than he has learnt his entire life. At the very least UK primary Schools teach us how to write our own name.
*****I don’t know, I’ve seen your new prime minister   
1. He's a former US President. You aren't.
You point? How does being Elected (under conterversial Standards I might add) to be a government puppet make him any better than me?
*****Well yea. Its easy to call someone stupid et al, yet they’ve achieved more than you or I ever will.
2. Time will reflect much more favorably on his presidency. Iraq was a very bad idea and almost a failure. The initial budget debacle and not trying to head off the housing nightmare in 2006 can be laid at his feet. But the same can be said for Congress. He did stop Al Qaeda and his administration worked well in the 2002-2003 recession. We'll see how this adminstration does, after two years of budgets that are 4x as large as anything in history and after we again treat terrorism as a crime.
Riiiiiight. As for Al Qaeda, tell that to the operatives still in Iraq and Iran.
*****They haven’t attacked the US again. I don’t really care about the Iraqis at this point.
We'll see how popular he is when he starts releasing Gitmo terrorists into the US. We'll see what the economy is like in 2012. We'll see.
Yes, "terrorists" that have never been charged with anything and have never had any proof of terrorism brought against the, At least when the UK locked up Irishmen we had SOME evidence.
****So you’re volunteering to let them bunk at your house yes? Last I saw, the Brits weren’t taking them either.
However, the fact Europeans hate Bush is always a positive. You guys love Obama yet haven't lifted finger one in requests, so who's the better President?
Obama has been in office approx 100 days....
*****Don’t worry, his administration will be so successful, it will complete the next 100 days in 72
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Post by: reds8n
Frazzled wrote:Oh contraire, Bush is quite upper class. The family is worth in the hundreds of millions IIRC.
You've got to remember that in Europe you're not upper class if you've had to buy your own furniture old boy!
Brain dead. Call me when you graduate from one of the top 10 schools in the world.
Which is odd isn't it....it's a good school with a great rep.
..they don't normally take C grade average students whose main talent has been "cheerleading" do they ? Never what you know is it.
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Post by: Frazzled
He still graduated from it. You can't be an idiot and a fighter pilot, even in the reserves.
Again, we'll see how history judges his presidency.
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Post by: Gwar!
Frazzled wrote:No offence, but an English Primary School probably teaches more in one year than he has learnt his entire life. At the very least UK primary Schools teach us how to write our own name. *****I don’t know, I’ve seen your new prime minister
Typical American Fail. Your Prime Minister is Scottish, not English. Frazzled wrote:1. He's a former US President. You aren't.
You point? How does being Elected (under conterversial Standards I might add) to be a government puppet make him any better than me?
*****Well yea. Its easy to call someone stupid et al, yet they’ve achieved more than you or I ever will.
Just because he has achieved more US Armed forces deaths than any other president Since Vietnam does not make them a describable/smart person Frazzled wrote:2. Time will reflect much more favorably on his presidency. Iraq was a very bad idea and almost a failure. The initial budget debacle and not trying to head off the housing nightmare in 2006 can be laid at his feet. But the same can be said for Congress. He did stop Al Qaeda and his administration worked well in the 2002-2003 recession. We'll see how this adminstration does, after two years of budgets that are 4x as large as anything in history and after we again treat terrorism as a crime.
Riiiiiight. As for Al Qaeda, tell that to the operatives still in Iraq and Iran.
*****They haven’t attacked the US again. I don’t really care about the Iraqis at this point.
No, they have been to busy blowing up IED's at the troops in Iraq. And why have you stopped caring. The US made an Illegal Invasion of another Sovereign Country on information they have publicly admitted to be Knowingly Falsified. If anything you should be screaming for Bush's head. Frazzled wrote:We'll see how popular he is when he starts releasing Gitmo terrorists into the US. We'll see what the economy is like in 2012. We'll see.
Yes, "terrorists" that have never been charged with anything and have never had any proof of terrorism brought against the, At least when the UK locked up Irishmen we had SOME evidence.
****So you’re volunteering to let them bunk at your house yes? Last I saw, the Brits weren’t taking them either.
That's because the UK is a lapdog of the US and slowly turning into the Big Brother State Orwell Predicted all those years ago. Frazzled wrote:However, the fact Europeans hate Bush is always a positive. You guys love Obama yet haven't lifted finger one in requests, so who's the better President? Obama has been in office approx 100 days.... *****Don’t worry, his administration will be so successful, it will complete the next 100 days in 72
I'm sure he will accomplish far more than Bush could ever dream. And even if he doesn't, it won't matter, because the reason he didn't is because of the God Awful mess Bush Left behind. Succeed or Fail, Obama cannot lose. Frazzled wrote:He still graduated from it. You can't be an idiot and a fighter pilot, even in the reserves.
Again, we'll see how history judges his presidency.
When you are the Presidents/Ex-Presidents Son, you can get away with whatever the hell you want, Either Daddy will bribe the right people or the people will be smart enough in the first place to let it slide, lest the MiB get them.
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Post by: reds8n
Frazzled wrote:He still graduated from it. You can't be an idiot and a fighter pilot, even in the reserves.
Yeah.... and the economy is doing so well all those business genius' must be doing such a fine job!
..Oh please, yes you can.
Again, we'll see how history judges his presidency.
Yes. Time heals most wounds and tints all glasses. 
I'm sure ( hell, hope) that he is remembered in a better light than when he left, and fair play to him he has done the decent thing and stayed away and out of the limelight since he has left, which must be a real culture shock having been simultaneously the worlds most powerful and least popular man for the best part of a decade.
It's been quite entertaining seeing American tourists being willing to actually admit where they are from once more. Must stick in the craw when you have to pretend to be Canadian !
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Post by: Frazzled
We'll see. Typically the brainiacs mess things up quite nicely.
And back to the topic:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=7557626&page=1
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Post by: reds8n
Well.... at least they are learning and listening eh ?
be fair, some of the Brainiacs have been good
...ohh  I see
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
Gwar! wrote:The US made an Illegal Invasion of another Sovereign Country on information they have publicly admitted to be Knowingly Falsified.
Not to stay on the Pro-Bush band wagon or anything, but IIRC Congress gave the President the right to do so, they may never have declared war but the President still has the right to invade a place with out their support. With out their support how ever you aren't likely to get very far because you won't have money or supplies coming in. Though in the end Bush did have money and supplies going to the troops, which meant that congress did support the invasion. Now later on if they wanted to stop they could have voted on that, again IIRC they did vote and decided to stay.
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Post by: mcfly
IMHO.
Obama is gonna fail hard.
Bush in 20 yrs is gonna be seen as an average president, not great, but certainly not the worst ever. I mean, he never bankrupted a country into the trillions (Obama) or be like Ulysses S Grant, His administration was marred by scandal, sometimes the product of nepotism, and the neologism Grantism was coined to describe political corruption.
I thought Bush was a decent president, and at least he had funny moments (eg: Japan locked door, shoe throwing) And the Uk isn't going to have to deal with the changes he makes, except in international policy.
Going to bed, gnight.
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Post by: sexiest_hero
Oh here is me thought on bush, It may be a little long winded so bear with me. I don't think bush was a bad person. I do think he was a bad president, though not in the way most people think. here are some reasons of his fall from grace in my view in a non-Bush bashing way.
1. Wrong personality for a leader, He was pretty much a free spirit and overly head strong, it made him likable to his party line but seem uncomprimising to eveybody else in the world. Doing something because you can isn't alwas a good thing.
2.Being in over his head. There were times when Bush simpply looked lost, his White House constantly contradicted itself, garbled it's message, and over/under reacted grossly. Other times it felt like they would simply pretend a issue wasn't there until it got way out of hand, and then say "well it's happened don't dwell in the bast.
3.Fixation on the wrong issues. The economy had been in decline for a long time, nothing was done to stop the crazy groth of oil prices, home, car, school and food prices. People lived by the credit card to get by and it was bound to go boom. He didn't even do anything about welfare or foodstamps his party loves to complain about, or immigration.
4. Losing control of his White House. He allowed his vice president too much power, enough to say that he had his own branch of government. There were many reports of him issuing an order and people waiting for the vice president to ok it, and that leads us to
5.Disgruntled workers. Remember everytime somebody left the white house for "Family reasons" a while later they write a book bashing the white house. It was all the same message, they came to work for Bush and ended up being ordered to do questionable things, like lie or take the fall for somebody, but Dick and Co. Any dissent or grievince was intercepted before it got to Bush and punished. Consitering how loyal republicans are, and how many of these positions were hand pick by Bush himself, the work conditions had to be bad to turn the most loyal of all into critics. Speaking of communication
6.Bush lost comtrol of his party message. I don't know how or when it happened, but it did. Just like he was losing his grip on the white house, he lost the party message to a tv network and radio show jocks. He allowed them to dictate what he and his party stood for, and in the end when he tried to change a stance He ended up having to comply with what they said rather than them being the Choir to his message.
7.Letting the gak roll down hill. Saying that the biggest mistakes were somebody else's fault wore thin really fast.
8.Bubble Boy. Being isolated inside his inner circle "protected" by Dick, Bush never knew just how much things had turned aginst him untill election time, when the big attraction was Bush not showing up to an event, that leads us to...
9. The touch of death. A good number of Leaders lost power because they when along with Bush on some issue or another. He was even a tool used by political parties and terroist movements world wide. He rand out of friends in record time.
1o. The great destroyer. Bush single-handedly destoryed his party. THAT IS WHAT MAKES HIM A BAD PRESIDENT. His knack of vetoing everything that he didn't like, and suppresion of moderates saw just about most swing votes and moderates go democrat. this removed a lot of good republican leaders and left them saying the last 8 years we held power wern't our fault. Obama tore into that stupid argument like a shark in a pool of baby seals and laughed all the way into the White House.
Bush's crime is losing control of everything, letting other make the choices and not being aware of the public who elected him. His bad Governship as seen his party turned into a minority and reviled the world over. Also by give the power of message to tv and radio shows, his doomed every moderate republican to either be shunned by the people or join democrats. Hell I wish there wasa Republican that could stand up to O'Reily or Rush, I really do.
There Itried to IMHO outline why Bush failed as a Pres in an unbiased as possible way.
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Post by: Cheese Elemental
Good one. You wouldn't believe how much people take the piss out of Bush over here. The Chasers were all over his mistakes.
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