After Imperial Guard, do we know who is up next for sure, or is it all rumors? If anyone knows where to find the most official information on this kind of thing I'd love to know where to look.

This Summer there is Planetstrike.

As BrookM says, Planetstrike is the only upcoming release officially confirmed in print... although it is a supplement rather than a Codex. Verbal confirmation came from the lips of Phil Kelly at Games Day France that Space Wolves and Dark Eldar would be coming 'next'* but he didn't give any dates. This also doesn't preclude some other 'mystery' release being slipped in somewhere as I believe Phil provided the information in response to being asked specifically about Space Wolves and Dark Eldar.

*Inverted commas for vaguery rather than a direct quote

BrookM wrote:This Summer there is Planetstrike.

Yay!

Space wolves ( or sub anything ) should never get their release same way as full army have.

They should only get minor updates like recent empire items!

GW you are crazyyyy

The Empire release is a rehash of old metal minis and new ones (the archers), the Space Wolves are something completely different, but that is best discussed in the Woof thread found here.

I have to agree with Luna, though I can't elaborate without flame-baiting.
I am sick of space marines to a degree that defies communicability.
And I still have no idea what to make of Planetstrike. To be honest, I wish it was another codex release instead.

Well everyone knows that Space Marines are the baby of GW..of course they would rather produce a crappy SM codex than one of more substance.

Soze to get back on your point I think there are lots of second wave models coming out this year rather than full codex releases.

I don't know, Space Wolves might be cool.

One could apply all the moans to 40k that get applied to space marines.

If WHFB got half the love that 40k gets supplement wise or in WD, I'd be a happy man, sadly I know that will never happen.

The fact remains that Space Marinez are the most popular range in the GW's most popular game system, of course they get more love than everything else.

Problem is that GW keeps pushing marines the most so obviously they are the most popular and as such the most deserving of new stuff every time.

And I am not complaining...anymore

LunaHound wrote:
Space wolves ( or sub anything ) should never get their release same way as full army have.

They should only get minor updates like recent empire items!

GW you are crazyyyy

Indeed, even from a space marine perspective why should Space Wolves even get a codex when Blood Angels don't?

Also I'm not looking for a game expanding supplement when the game itself is not complete yet.

I think GW needs an Editor. Ah well, old story about sour grapesing! Maybe Planet strike will be cool, or I could go play War of the Ring while I'm waiting for 5th ed codices...

Awe man, I wish there was yet another thread complaining about the upcoming SW release. Oh wait, there's one right here! Really? Thanks guys. My day is now complete!

Augustus wrote:Indeed, even from a space marine perspective why should Space Wolves even get a codex when Blood Angels don't?

I think GW feels SW have more to offer for a full army revamp, Blood Angels (currently) don't have enough "variant" models to push the way BA, DA or SW seem to. For the other three, you can use the sprues across the whole army while BA really have only the Death Company, some vehicle parts and some chapter logos to offer (again, currently, GW could do something about this if they tried). Sadly for the BA, they don't wear dresses, wolf parts or capes/tabards, so it is harder to accessorize for them, you can only do so much with a "blood" theme. Augustus, I see your request for an Editor (which GW really needs several) and raise you a real 40k Line Developer/Manager/whatever you want to call them.

Soze, rumor has it that Phil Kelly is also working on whatever codex the Grey Knights will be in next.

temprus wrote:
Soze, rumor has it that Phil Kelly is also working on whatever codex the Grey Knights will be in next.

This makes me happy if true.

i thought i heard somewhere that the space wolves and dark eldar are next.
(i really hope that the dark eldar will be first.)

@ temprus, thanks, lets hope!

Augustus wrote:why should Space Wolves even get a codex when Blood Angels don't?

Well, BA don't have anything besides their SCs & the Baal Pred, which tracks the same as the SW SCs & Bjorn. Because BA models currently sell just like SM, there isn't much that needs to be done at the moment. Though I would expect a BT-style bitz upgrade box with skull & crossbones and teardrop bitz, along with Greco/Roman-style "bared" chestplates and a BA-specific JP when GW finally gets around to doing BA "for real". Visually and rules-wise, BA will need a quite a bit more work before a new Codex and bitz sprue can be released.

Space Wolves currently have a plastic bitz sprue and an unconventional force structure that drives easily-trackable sales via discrete BC, GH, & LF boxes. Plus, the current SW boxes use obsolete Tactical & Assault sprues, along with metal Devastator bitz, so there are production problems in that GW is still producing less-efficient sprues and mixed-metal stuff. The real question is whether SW will retain distinct GH/BC/LF packaging, or whether they'll be handled like BT with an initial SW-specific box splash followed by moving to a SW bitz upgrade box.

Augustus wrote:Indeed, even from a space marine perspective why should Space Wolves even get a codex when Blood Angels don't?

Blood Angels have a Codex.

wyomingfox wrote:Awe man, I wish there was yet another thread complaining about the upcoming SW release. Oh wait, there's one right here! Really? Thanks guys. My day is now complete!

QFT

It's amazing how many times people want to rehash this argument. All we need is a sidebar about whether the DE or SW have gone longer without an update and this thread will be complete.

So nothing about nids? I have heard rumours in several places about a release either december or next year...looks like I've been had.

Fetterkey wrote:

Augustus wrote:Indeed, even from a space marine perspective why should Space Wolves even get a codex when Blood Angels don't?

Blood Angels have a Codex.

are you talking about the two articles that came out in white dwarf during 4th edition? that's not a codex; it's filler for a crappy magazine.

I predict that whatever the releases are for the next 12 months, some people will not be happy.

QFT

First off, the BA codex in white dwarf is actually longer and more complete than the 3rd edition one, so it was an improvement on that.

Second, the problem isn't Space Wolves, which have had their own codex since like forever, but it was Dark Angels and Black Templars. The DA book essentially is watered down marines with Deathwing and Ravenwing. Part of that was execution, but part of that is the simple fact that DA are a strict codex chapter, so they can't really have neat DA stuff and get Deathwing/Ravenwing without making Space Marines obsolete. They could have done a better job with the power armored DA, but as it is, there's one codex that sits on the shelf and is used almost solely for Deathwing, ravenwing, and combi-wing.

Black Templars are the other problem. If you told a gamer in 1998 that there would be a full codex for a non-codex, hand to hand loving chapter that uses land raiders heavily and even uses mixed armor squads, everybody would have assumed it was space wolves. Now, I know a lot of people like BTs, but the distinction between UM, BT, and SW tend to be very, very fine (and certainly less than between say, Thousands Sons and Iron Warriors. But I digress.) Black templars had a broken ass list in Armageddon, a nice simple color scheme, and neat fluff, so they got a little steam, and for reasons unknown to all, BT got the 2nd MEQ codex of fourth.

Space wolves, along with Orks, have been a huge part of the game, and almost as much or even more than UMs, represent the best way to sell MEQs to new players. Vikings! In Space! They're good guys that don't like outsiders and drink beer and sing songs!

Anyway, IMO, the way SM codices since 4th edition should have been done are as follows:

Instead of BT, Space Wolves.
Soon after that, BT get a blood angels style codex in WD, maybe release the sprue.
Instead of the DA codex, release an Angels of Death codex, with a shared power armor core, and add ons for the two chapters (deathwing, ravenwing for DA; Vets, death company, furiosos, and Baals for BA).
Instead of doing Space Wolves now, do combined inquisition or DE/Necrons.

Polonius wrote:Space wolves, along with Orks, have been a huge part of the game, and almost as much or even more than UMs, represent the best way to sell MEQs to new players. Vikings! In Space! They're good guys that don't like outsiders and drink beer and sing songs!

I don't have much interest in YAIC (Yet Another Imperial Codex). /yawn. I don't have a lot of interest in a DE codex, either, but I'd sure be more interested in that than another Marine book. But hey, we're just players/customers - we really can't do much about it, unfortunately.

But I gotta say, Polonius, your comment above is awesomely sig-worthy! /salute

@Polonius: I generally agree with you. Adding BT to the list of actual Codices only made things worse. But the BT have the best bitz of all the SM, so I'm OK with that. 40k would be much poorer if we lost the tabard Marines.

Same with making DA before SM (because the DA lost the new SM stuff that was added). But DA basically are essentially basic SM with DW/RW as variation, so this makes sense. But DA wear dresses and feathers, so they get a book and models.

SW are good, because of the pelts and Norse bitz, plus, they're old.

And, of course, there is CSM with their spikes and such...

Of course, this means that BA lose out, which is why they just got a "get-you-by" Codex in WD.

Given that GW must release models over rules / Fluff, I think GW is doing things about right, with model-based lines BT/DA/SW getting real releases, and the timing is about as tight as it could be, what with having to release 5E and SM on schedule and shoehorn in a CSM release during 4E.

The reality is that Marines of any color sell. They require less effort to produce than other armies as well, since the tanks are all 'common' and the troopers are all based on the same kits as well. So, it's a money maker for GW. They push marines, marines sell well, they push marines. Nice little circular logic there. It works.

If GW would add other armies into the mix, I'd be happy to see loyalist marines get 1-2 books and chaos marines get the. But, GW probably wouldn't add other armies to the mix, and if they did, they wouldn't be as profitable as more marinez! hurr! GW is a business, if they don't make money, they don't stay in business. While more Xenos would be nice, I'd rather see GW stay in business and make more marinez! hurr!

Fetterkey wrote:

Augustus wrote:Indeed, even from a space marine perspective why should Space Wolves even get a codex when Blood Angels don't?

Blood Angels have a Codex.

OH? so a pdf file is now a Codex? HMM, that's news to me..

two_heads_talking wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:

Augustus wrote:Indeed, even from a space marine perspective why should Space Wolves even get a codex when Blood Angels don't?

Blood Angels have a Codex.

OH? so a pdf file is now a Codex? HMM, that's news to me..

Come on, it's not a 6 page pdf like the old Kroot Mercenary list, it's 28 pages and a full army list, with more and better options than several armies with full codices (DE, Necrons, and Inquistition armies notably). It's not a full book, but it's clearly not an afterthought either.

Polonius wrote:

two_heads_talking wrote:
OH? so a pdf file is now a Codex? HMM, that's news to me..

Come on, it's not a 6 page pdf like the old Kroot Mercenary list, it's 28 pages and a full army list, with more and better options than several armies with full codices (DE, Necrons, and Inquistition armies notably). It's not a full book, but it's clearly not an afterthought either.

Well, I was actually thinking of a certain 2 page blood angel pdf/codex.. I had completely glossed over or forgot about the 28 page one.. YOu have a valid point. I withdraw my smartass remark.

Polonius wrote:

two_heads_talking wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:

Augustus wrote:Indeed, even from a space marine perspective why should Space Wolves even get a codex when Blood Angels don't?

Blood Angels have a Codex.

OH? so a pdf file is now a Codex? HMM, that's news to me..

Come on, it's not a 6 page pdf like the old Kroot Mercenary list, it's 28 pages and a full army list, with more and better options than several armies with full codices (DE, Necrons, and Inquistition armies notably). It's not a full book, but it's clearly not an afterthought either.

Polonius, I like your point, however WD article !- codex. I want it on the shelf with the rest. Also V4, not V5. To me that is fail.

Augustus wrote:
Polonius, I like your point, however WD article !- codex. I want it on the shelf with the rest. Also V4, not V5. To me that is fail.

It's not as good, but something had to give. The old book was laughably obsolete, while the current army list is more varied and fits the current metagame far better. As for being from V4, only 3 armies are built for V5. I want DE back on the shelf, and a mechanicus codex, and lots of other stuff, but I think GW has realized there are too many armies as it is. You can have to many be marine variants, but those are what people like and want. GW is going to end up making five codices for marines (UM, DA, BA, BT, SW) when they needed at most three (UM, Angels of Death, Codex:non-Codex). That would open up a slot for an Inquisition Codex, or the DE or whatever.

You forgot the other codicies that people want.

Chaos
Chaos with Demons
Chaos with Chaos
Chaos without Chaos
Chaos IG
Chaos Marines

And Zoats

Seriously, if they wanted to, they could make a whole game out of MEQ's, and have a codex for each first founding legion, and have marines vs. marines for the fate of the universe. It would be called, Warhammer 30,000, The Horus Heresy. It might even catch on, spurring fans to imagine it in their own way...

Seriously though, if they really wanted to inundate us with marines, why didn't they do a separate codex for each of the chaos legions?

Because while chaos legions have spacehams, they also have demons and Johnny's mom won't buy those for him - no sir.

Because they didn't want to create new models for each legion. Codices only exist to sell models, which is why BA got the shaft, and why Chaos Legions are rolled into one book.

But... there are Cult marine models!

I mean there are death guard, Berzerkers, Noise Marines and 1k Sons Polonius?

Isn't the imperial equivalent for the chaos codex aproach to cults like saying:

-Loyalist assault marines are now called "blood angels" and are usually red and Tac Marines, often blue are now called "Ultramarines" etc.?

Augustus wrote:But... there are Cult marine models!

I mean there are death guard, Berzerkers, Noise Marines and 1k Sons Polonius?

Isn't the imperial equivalent for the chaos codex aproach to cults like saying:

-Loyalist assault marines are now called "blood angels" and are usually red and Tac Marines, often blue are now called "Ultramarines" etc.?

Well, keep in mind that a big chunk of the Chaos range is already Imperial stuff (Rhino, preds, vindie, landraider), and that outside of the core Black Legion style stuff, most of the cults really only have one kit and a character. Wolves have a full Sprue, plus a metal terminator range, a host of characters, metal scouts, the Wulfen, and Bjorn. Even BAs have Five unique characters, the death company, the honor guard, the Baal Pred, and the Furioso. DAs have the full sprue (to make robed vets, deathwing, and ravenwing) as well as a few characters. BT have a decent sized range. the Basic Marine range is far, far larger than the Chaos range, particularly after the removal of Demons.

Until GW thinks it can sell a full Iron Warrior Sprue and small metal range, we probably won't see dedicated legion codices. Which is a shame, because I think they're often more interesting than the chapters.

Augustus wrote: I want it on the shelf with the rest. Also V4, not V5. To me that is fail.

Once Space Hulk arrives I'd expect to see a V5 on shelf Blood Angels codex sooner rather than later.

whitedragon wrote:Seriously though, if they really wanted to inundate us with marines, why didn't they do a separate codex for each of the chaos legions?

Who says they aren't going to do this eventually.

It seems like GW only announces the very next thing and nothing ahead of that. I picked Tyranids as my first army and my buddy picked Tau, so I was just curious if the Tyranids were gonna get hooked up anytime soon. I'm loving my codex anyway and already planning my army. I have to admit, knowing SM are always up to date makes me want to buy their Codex as well, if not just for the counter-intelligence.

Keyser Soze wrote:I was just curious if the Tyranids were gonna get hooked up anytime soon.

See my comment about Blood Angels.

@Brimstone

Nice, new Tyranid models (Trygon!) and Space Hulk tiles will soon be mine! I just hope there will be a non-overpriced melee-gaunt option. Ah well, there goes the wishlist...

Boo at the Chaos legion thing. Combining Codex Marine and Chaos Marine codecies would be the way to go, not the other way around. strapping the Craftworlds was the best thing that could happen with eldar.

Greets
Schepp himself

two_heads_talking wrote:

OH? so a pdf file is now a Codex? HMM, that's news to me..

So I can buy a SW codex right?

Oh wait, I can't.

augfubuoy wrote:

two_heads_talking wrote:

OH? so a pdf file is now a Codex? HMM, that's news to me..

So I can buy a SW codex right?

Oh wait, I can't.

But the way things are looking right now you will come fall

Hells yea! Unfortunately, SW's will soon become the newest "fad" among gamers under the assumption the Codex Creep continues ... Whatever. I'll be happy either way.

Four codices for the Imperium.

1)Imperial Guard-The current one is pretty good as it allows for almost everythemed regiment to be built.

2)Space Marines-Codex:Chapters gives builds for the ultras and three other loyal stable chapters(Ultras, Dark angels, and one or two others.)

3)Space Marines-Codex:Geneseed gives the builds for the three or four loyal chapters with signs of geneseed instability(BA, SW, and one or two others)

4)Forces of the Imperium-Combined Inquisition codex. Has Sisters for ordos hereticus and witch hunting duties
Grey Knights and Inq for Ordos Malleus and demon hunting duties
Black Templars for Ordos Xenos duties
Inquisition to tie them all together and to bring in Allies.


Same style set-up for the Forces of Chaos and traitor Guard. Four books for more complete and streamilined army coverage.

I got no idea what's coming out this year.

But I hope its Necrons!!

Necrons are coming after nids which are after DE wich are after Wolves based on what I have read on dakka recently.

Augustus wrote:

Indeed, even from a space marine perspective why should Space Wolves even get a codex when Blood Angels don't?

And a thousands nerds cried out in rage, and were suddenly silenced. Aye, I was one of those nerds.

Brimstone wrote:

Augustus wrote: I want it on the shelf with the rest. Also V4, not V5. To me that is fail.

Once Space Hulk arrives I'd expect to see a V5 on shelf Blood Angels codex sooner rather than later.

whitedragon wrote:Seriously though, if they really wanted to inundate us with marines, why didn't they do a separate codex for each of the chaos legions?

Who says they aren't going to do this eventually.

Brimstone! Oh, Brimstone! Thanks.

Hmm..in times like these, its' rather useless to 'hope' for a combined inquisition codex.

not only GW can't come up with a proper schedule on the releases of codices but they can't even rectify certain points in their FAQS (usually 3rd edition codices) to make the game(s) run more smoothly.

Back to my WoC then, my knights would have to sit in the corner collecting dust. heheh!

I have also heard the rumor that a full codex for Blood Angels will closely follow the release of Space Hulk.

G

Well, when IS Space Hulk due to be released? I mean, to be honest I have been completely ignoring it, but if it is a mile marker on the road to BAV5, then I must confess sudden and intent interest.

Based on various rumours, my personal speculation is Space Wolves are next, with Sisters at the end of the year. Next year I would imagine Dark Eldar, Grey Knights and Necron, in that order. Pure speculation, but based on a few things floating around.

We do, however, know that Nids are most assuredly not coming any time soon, and Necron are definitely not this year. Anyone who wants Blood Angels can go to hell, as there are far more desperate armies in the wings. 2007 is not that old, when we have armies going back to 2000 still waiting. As a Sisters player, I would be quite satisfied with the White Dwarf treatment you got!

Elric of Grans wrote:Based on various rumours, my personal speculation is Space Wolves are next, with Sisters at the end of the year. Next year I would imagine Dark Eldar, Grey Knights and Necron, in that order. Pure speculation, but based on a few things floating around.

We do, however, know that Nids are most assuredly not coming any time soon, and Necron are definitely not this year. Anyone who wants Blood Angels can go to hell, as there are far more desperate armies in the wings. 2007 is not that old, when we have armies going back to 2000 still waiting. As a Sisters player, I would be quite satisfied with the White Dwarf treatment you got!

No offence Elric but you're the first person I've heard mention sisters and I think it may just be wishful thinking on your part.

Planetstrike is confirmed, Space Wolves seems the most likely after that (there have been SW rumours for a while and a GEQ and MEQ per year makes sense) it is all open to debate as nothing solid has emerged. You would knock me over with a feather if they released sisters as nobody but you has mentioned them so far and it would be 4 imperial codecii in a row which is excessive even by GW standards.

Space Hulk is coming, we know this so BA and Nids makes a lot of sense. I agree that BA don't really warrant an update having only got a new codex 2 years ago but it would make a lot of sense for GW to put out codecii for the 2 armies in the space hulk box. Plus the usually reliable Brimstone has teased both nids and BA a few times.

DE have been dangled out the first codex post-space wolves. I would be delighted for this to happen and there has been a lot of chatter recently about DE but nothing really promising has emerged.

So the next few should be SW, DE, Nids, and BA leaving only Necrons, Sisters and Daemonhunters out on a limb as regards an update.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:So the next few should be SW, DE, Nids, and BA leaving only Necrons, Sisters and Daemonhunters out on a limb as regards an update.

Tau are on that limb too.

TheUnforgiven wrote:Hmm..in times like these, its' rather useless to 'hope' for a combined inquisition codex.

That, and a "combined" Inquistiion as most people suggest (WH + DH + AH + kitchen sink) would see such a drastic paring back of options that would make the loss of Chaos Legions / IG Doctrines / Eldar Craftworlds pale in comparison. Personally, I hope we never see such a thing come to pass.

I'm hoping for a return of C: Sisters of Battle (SoB, NO Allies), followed by C: Inquisition (Inq + GK + DW w/ Allies), to clean up the whole Allies mess.
____

grizgrin wrote:Well, when IS Space Hulk due to be released?

SH is supposed to be next year (2010).
____

Elric of Grans wrote:my personal speculation is Space Wolves are next, with Sisters at the end of the year. Next year I would imagine Dark Eldar, Grey Knights and Necron, in that order.

We do, however, know that Nids are most assuredly not coming any time soon, and Necron are definitely not this year.

Anyone who wants Blood Angels can go to hell, as there are far more desperate armies in the wings.

@Elric, I gotta agree with robin that you're kinda out there. SW are confirmed for September, after Planetstrike. Nothing has been said on Sisters, so I don't know where that is coming from, aside from Sisters players wishlisting like crazy. DE were sidelined. GK hasn't seen any rumor (DH players are wishlisting?). Necrons are likely well back (2011?).

Nids are likely for 2010, and Necrons are correct not this year (Nids will come before them).

As a BA player, as a matter of fact, I've been to Hell (Michigan), and seen it frozen over. BA will very likely get their release when their sales warrant one. Just like those other armies, and no sooner. If they're slow sellers, then those DEsperate armies may have a very long wait ahead of them.
____

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:You would knock me over with a feather if they released sisters as nobody but you has mentioned them so far and it would be 4 imperial codecii in a row which is excessive even by GW standards.

So the next few should be SW, DE, Nids, and BA leaving only Necrons, Sisters and Daemonhunters out on a limb as regards an update.

Totally agred on these Sisters, although it's not a bad idea for later. This year is much too soon.

When were DE confirmed to be on the schedule? I thought, like Necrons, they're sometime in the indefinite future...

My logic behind the order:
* Space Wolves are known to be finished and are the army we hear the most chatter about, so most probably next.
* Necron were only started recently, so are probably 12-18 months away.
* Warseer's Harry said a while back that Dark Eldar and Grey Knights are next year.
* He also said there was a release coming between Space Wolves (who he confirmed as next) and Dark Eldar.
* Games Workshop stated at Baltimore Games Day that they will not update any army with a release in the past five years (ie since Fourth Edition) until all the older armies are updated.

Therefore, Space Wolves next, followed by <blank>, followed by Dark Eldar. Necron or Grey Knights after this, with the latter start of Necron leaning me towards Grey Knights first. Since Sisters are the only army that can possibly fill the blank, I put them there. Then again, Harry did say that he could not believe the <blank> had been kept so well under wraps, and Andy Hoare did start on the Sisters last year, some time before work began on Grey Knights. Wish listing, no doubt, but not entirely baseless.

I did not bother including Planetstrike or Space Hulk since they are supplements, rather than armies.

JohnHwangDD wrote:When were DE confirmed to be on the schedule? I thought, like Necrons, they're sometime in the indefinite future...

Technically Space Wolves are also set for the indefinite future. All we really have are vague whispers on the order in which the next few armies will be released.

I'm kinda with Elric when it comes to a lack of sympathy for SM players.
I laugh myself to seizures every time somebody says "Myeh DE don't need an update! Their early 3rd Edition codex is solid and competitive!" The only thing that makes their statement funnier is when in the next breath they talk about the sorry state of <insert SM chapter here> and how desperately they need an update. It never stops being funny.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:You would knock me over with a feather if they released sisters as nobody but you has mentioned them so far and it would be 4 imperial codecii in a row which is excessive even by GW standards.

So the next few should be SW, DE, Nids, and BA leaving only Necrons, Sisters and Daemonhunters out on a limb as regards an update.

Totally agred on these Sisters, although it's not a bad idea for later. This year is much too soon.

When were DE confirmed to be on the schedule? I thought, like Necrons, they're sometime in the indefinite future...

They are by no means confirmed to be on the schedule. The only thing confirmed at the moment is Planetstrike.

I think most everyone suspects that Sw are the next after Planetstrike and my personal guess for the next 3 armies after that are BA, Nids and DE though I'm not sure on the order or the time scale.

And of those 3 the only one that really keeps popping up from reliable sources is Nids. BA is based on a few cyrptic comments from brimstone and the reasoning that Nids are getting an update due to Space Hulk so Ba probably should. DE is based on some low level chatter by guys like Phil Kelly that he is "working on it" which is more than I've heard for necrons, Sisters, Tau or GK.

JohnHwangDD wrote:DE were sidelined ... If they're slow sellers, then those DEsperate armies may have a very long wait ahead of them. When were DE confirmed to be on the schedule? ... they're sometime in the indefinite future...

Give it a rest Hwang! You really are Dakka's own little Holocaust Denier, only replace Holocaust with Dark Eldar. Give it up. How many times do you have to be told? Why are you being so unabashedly obtuse about this... wait... stupid question... you're JohnHwangDD, of course you're being obtuse about it, but still - come on already. DE are coming, they're not far off, they weren't fething "sidelined", and we've had multiple confirmations about their existence from people like Yak and Brimstone (reliable sources if there ever have been any) and from Jes Goodwin himself?

What more do you want?

LunaHound wrote:Space wolves ( or sub anything ) should never get their release same way as full army have.

Archonate wrote: I'm kinda with Elric when it comes to a lack of sympathy for SM players.
I laugh myself to seizures every time somebody says "My DE don't need an update! Their early 3rd Edition codex is solid and competitive!" The only thing that makes their statement funnier is when in the next breath they talk about the sorry state of <insert SM chapter here> and how desperately they need an update. It never stops being funny.

...and what is even funnier is DE players engaging in nerd rage whenever SW rumors pop up

ubermosher wrote:All we need is a sidebar about whether the DE or SW have gone longer without an update and this thread will be complete.

You sir are a prophet

H.B.M.C. wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:DE were sidelined ... If they're slow sellers, then those DEsperate armies may have a very long wait ahead of them. When were DE confirmed to be on the schedule? ... they're sometime in the indefinite future...

Give it a rest Hwang! You really are Dakka's own little Holocaust Denier, only replace Holocaust with Dark Eldar. Give it up. How many times do you have to be told? Why are you being so unabashedly obtuse about this... wait... stupid question... you're JohnHwangDD, of course you're being obtuse about it, but still - come on already. DE are coming, they're not far off, they weren't fething "sidelined", and we've had multiple confirmations about their existence from people like Yak and Brimstone (reliable sources if there ever have been any) and from Jes Goodwin himself?

What more do you want?

Man, I could have swore I read this exact same post word for word like a week ago ...that or I have the most limmited and useless version of prophesy...ever

The ability to predict H.B.M.C and J.H.D.D will argue? Yep, that sounds pretty useless.

Can you really call it an arguement when JHDD never replies to HBMC?

Anyways, I hope some artwork or GS sculpts on the upcoming SW codex starts to leak in the next couple of months

we-we need skaven-skaven...me love-love my skaven.

wyomingfox wrote:Man, I could have swore I read this exact same post word for word like a week ago ...that or I have the most limmited and useless version of prophesy...ever

Nah. Last one was shorter.

lord marcus wrote:we-we need skaven-skaven...me love-love my skaven.

How long's there army book been around?

Actually, while we're on it, which WFB books are the oldest?

Yep, this was a perfectly good thread. And I stess .........was. If the Guard are any indication on positive changes that GW is making then I for one cannot wait for the new SW codex. I have a buddy who lives in England and he plays religiously. Word from him was that Nids were next followed by DE. Not sure who he got this from but he is a real talented painter and plays with some of the GW staff. I know everyone has a buddy who knows/plays with this person or that but I just thought I would add my two whole cents to this lovely thread.

wyomingfox wrote:Can you really call it an arguement when JHDD never replies to HBMC?

I simply don't deign to converse with someone when he has to constantly stoop to ad hominem trolling and name-calling (e.g. "Holocaust Denier").

____

Guys, if DE really are coming, and this time really is different, then *when* are they coming?

At least SW have a date on the calendar (Sep 2009)...

Archonate wrote:Technically Space Wolves are also set for the indefinite future. All we really have are vague whispers on the order in which the next few armies will be released.

This is what I thought I heard out of Games Day this year. That Planetstrike, and some wave 2 stuff was the only 40k stuff on the calendar for the remainder of this year. Can anyone else confirm they heard this?

That would push the SW "rumors" right into DE land.

JohnHwangDD wrote:I simply don't deign to converse with someone when he has to constantly stoop to ad hominem trolling and name-calling (e.g. "Holocaust Denier").

The "Holocaust Denier" thing is the most apt descriptor I can think of. But yes, maybe you're right there. Perhaps I could (should?) have chosen something a little less dramatic... like... you're like someone who still thinks the world is flat, endlessly going on how flat it is when God himself (using God to represent Jes Goodwin in this instance, or even GW as a whole) has set otherwise as have two of his prophets (prophets in this case representing Yak and Brim). You cling like a man on a cliff to that "they've been sidelined" rumour like it was the Gospel-fething-truth, despite so much to the contrary.

Why?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

lord marcus wrote:we-we need skaven-skaven...me love-love my skaven.

How long's there army book been around?

Actually, while we're on it, which WFB books are the oldest?

6th Edition Army Books still in service and in order of printing.
Skaven
Tomb Kings
Beasts of Chaos
Bretonnia
Orge Kingdoms
Wood Elves
Dwarfs

It should be noted that Dwarfs was the last book released before 7th edition, and doesn't need updating yet.

There are also 'Dogs of War' and Kislev, but they were eaten by the 'Nids.

Cruentus wrote:

Archonate wrote:Technically Space Wolves are also set for the indefinite future. All we really have are vague whispers on the order in which the next few armies will be released.

This is what I thought I heard out of Games Day this year. That Planetstrike, and some wave 2 stuff was the only 40k stuff on the calendar for the remainder of this year. Can anyone else confirm they heard this?

That would push the SW "rumors" right into DE land.

SW rumors have always been about as obscure as DE rumors, and neither have a confirmed release date. The only thing anybody agrees on is that SW will most likely come first.

JohnHwangDD wrote:At least SW have a date on the calendar (Sep 2009)...

John, where did you get the date?

wyomingfox wrote:

ubermosher wrote:All we need is a sidebar about whether the DE or SW have gone longer without an update and this thread will be complete.

You sir are a prophet

You didn't need to be Miss Cleo to see this thread become a rehash of previous DE vs SW threads.

wyomingfox wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:At least SW have a date on the calendar (Sep 2009)...

John, where did you get the date?

I've seen this in a couple different places, but the most convenient place to point is BoLS:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/04/40k-rumors-space-wolves-minis_28.html

Whispers on the wind tell us the following:

Space Wolves have two new main sets planned:
-Wolf Guard in Terminator armour.
-Plastic Long Fangs set.

Currently the Grey Hunters and Blood Claws aren't getting much of a makeover; however, there is the high probability of a BT/DA style upgrade box/sprue.

There will also be several new metal figures released.

Continued talk and chatter is gelling around a September release slot for the Sons of Russ.

This follows multiple other SW rumors and sources.

ubermosher wrote:You didn't need to be Miss Cleo to see this thread become a rehash of previous DE vs SW threads.

They are the two codices in highest demand right now and, according to GW, those projects are both in their final stages. SW fans are outraged and foaming at the mouth at having to play with chapter rules from 3rd Edition... NOTHING in 40k should be as old as 3rd ed at this point. And I've never seen so much demand for news as from our DE enthusiasts. In fact there have been so many threads started asking for DE news that the mods have had to repeatedly say "SHUT UP! STOP ASKING ABOUT DE ALREADY!" So they posted a sticky with links to DE threads to curb the influx. I think we're all a little flustered at the way GW drags its feet.

This is from different ideas from various places on the net (i.e. warseer, dakka, BOLS) but is ultimately my speculation.

1. Planetstrike
2. SW
3. Space Hulk with new BA codex + some BA models
4. DE

I'm guessing the Space Hulk launch will be near the Christmas slot - as for the masses, Space Hulk should be easier to get into than mainstream 40k.

DE I think will come out early 2010 - as I don't know about the DE fans but a whole line sculpted by Jes Goodwin is great. The work needed on the DE range is bigger than most other codexes, and the background stuff for DE has gotta take time too. Of course different people say how far along the line DE have been developed.

I'm starting to think that Planetstrike/Space Hulk supplements is going to push 40k army updates further out - as that 50 sprue limit that came out of GD Baltimore surely will be taken up by Stompa kits we've had and the new Planetsrike terrain pieces etc.

Any word on Nids

Based on what Brimstone and others have said, I'd expect Tyranids next year, and before DE. Apparently the two "armies" in the Space Hulk box -- Tyranids and Blood Angels -- will get new codices following the SH release.

Well, if Necrons aren't getting a codex till next year, I might as well put them in storage. I refuse to play them under 5th edition rules because I don't feel like losing every game I play.

well if you lose every time, then you must not know how to play them so far in 5th ed. i have lost 4 games, won 25, and tied 15.

i would love to see a new Necron codex with some new units, not because i can't win, but because the same units get boring after 2 editions. GW needs to get their priorities straight.

(sorry if i misspelled priorities.)

LunaHound wrote:
Space wolves ( or sub anything ) should never get their release same way as full army have.

They should only get minor updates like recent empire items!

GW you are crazyyyy

WHAT !!!!!
the current sw codex is sooo old if you can find one (cos its out of print) it will be writen on parchment with hand drawn "ilumination"

it needs it sooo bad

Elric of Grans wrote:Based on various rumours, my personal speculation is Space Wolves are next, with Sisters at the end of the year. Next year I would imagine Dark Eldar, Grey Knights and Necron, in that order. Pure speculation, but based on a few things floating around.

We do, however, know that Nids are most assuredly not coming any time soon, and Necron are definitely not this year. Anyone who wants Blood Angels can go to hell, as there are far more desperate armies in the wings. 2007 is not that old, when we have armies going back to 2000 still waiting. As a Sisters player, I would be quite satisfied with the White Dwarf treatment you got!

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Did I say that they SHOULD have a new book coming out? Or that they were being shafted? Orcrying about how underpowered my new book is? Or even suggesting what the order SHOULD be?

Maybe you should read whats actually posted before you throw a temper tantrum.

gorgon wrote:Based on what Brimstone and others have said, I'd expect Tyranids next year, and before DE. Apparently the two "armies" in the Space Hulk box -- Tyranids and Blood Angels -- will get new codices following the SH release.

facepalm, rinse, repeat. That would make sense so many different ways, eh?

grizgrin wrote:Wait a minute, wait a minute. Did I say that they SHOULD have a new book coming out? Or that they were being shafted? Orcrying about how underpowered my new book is? Or even suggesting what the order SHOULD be?

Maybe you should read whats actually posted before you throw a temper tantrum.

Er... I would throw all that straight back at you. I was responding to John, not you (there was not even a post of yours to have responded to in that time!), and was in no way throwing a tantrum. I offered speculation, John questioned the logic, so I shared it. Very simple, really. Take a deep breath and remember that we are not all out to get you.

Elric of Grans wrote:
Er... I would throw all that straight back at you. I was responding to John, not you (there was not even a post of yours to have responded to in that time!), and was in no way throwing a tantrum. I offered speculation, John questioned the logic, so I shared it. Very simple, really. Take a deep breath and remember that we are not all out to get you.

Well, if you weren't taking the shot at me I thought you were, then you are right my comment was out of line. However, if you had made a reference to who you were replying to, I would not have done that. Clarity helps. As far as me not having a post for you to reply to; it appeared that you were responding to the post I made directly above the one of yours I quoted in the first place. Clarity is your friend.

I was responding to the post immediately preceding that one. That post was John's, not yours. I have no idea how you have got confused here.

Elric of Grans: Nope. Wrong again. Sigh. Take a look at the second page of the thread, approx five sixth's of the way down, time stamp 10/05/2009 09:05:55 pm. That's the post I thought you were responding to. That post is not John's. The next post is yours. You may have been telling John to go to hell, but all I'm saying is that next time try to be a little more clear who you're talking to because it appeared you were addressing me. There's a wonderful example of one of the many ways you can achieve clarity in a future situation like this right at the begining of this post.

Elric of Grans wrote:Take a deep breath and remember that we are not all out to get you.

Just some of us and by us I mean me ...*Procedes to pour sugar into Grizgrin's gas tanks*

i would think its time for the necrons to get a new codex

Dang, why wont my car start????

grizgrin wrote:Elric of Grans: Nope. Wrong again.

Oops, sorry, you are right. I was looking at the wrong post. That one was not directed at anyone; it was just in the general theme of the thread.

Soo nobody really knows when thinks are coming out.

gamefreak wrote:well if you lose every time, then you must not know how to play them so far in 5th ed. i have lost 4 games, won 25, and tied 15.

Bully for you. Find better opponents.

FlammingGaunt wrote:Soo nobody really knows when things are coming out.

Hang on, i'll just give Tzeentch a ring...

..."Hi, is there any chance of GW ever giving us accurate release information months/years in advance, then sticking to it?"...

..."TZEENTCH SAYS NO!"

..."Bah".

Whilst we know that some things are definitely on the way, there's really no telling just when they'll appear in the shops until GW prints some new pictures for us all to coo over. Still, it's fun to debate/wishlist stuff in the interim.

J.Black wrote:
..."TZEENTCH SAYS NO!"

For now... at least.

GW should release a schedule but with Planetstrike and new terrain, why bother?

gamefreak wrote:well if you lose every time, then you must not know how to play them so far in 5th ed. i have lost 4 games, won 25, and tied 15.

i would love to see a new Necron codex with some new units, not because i can't win, but because the same units get boring after 2 editions. GW needs to get their priorities straight.

(sorry if i misspelled priorities.)

Well then, care to enlighten me on how you're winning because everything I've tried to make the Necron list work in it's current form has met with nothing but failure.

Is it wrong of me to not really want the new SW dex? Look at things lately most of the releases haven't been that good, like the SM dex, and as HMBC always points out the CSM and Daemons codex. There are things about the current SW dex that are really awesome, but with Phil Kelly writing it I fear it could turn out like what my friend describes as the change between Ork books. They are gonna loose their options, yet have their own equivalent of Biker Nobs.

All the 3rd Ed books needs is a few changes.

Codex: Orks and Codex: Eldar were both quite good. Codex: Ultramarines and Codex: Chaos Space Marines were both bad. Look at the authors and see if you notice any connections.

Well while I do think the Eldar one is pretty good I just don't know about the Ork one, I am inclined to go with what I have seen by while glancing through both Ork books and them seem alot more narrow in the way they can be played. Wall of Boyz, Boyz in trukks, Biker Nobs, but I really cant say.

On the note of the SM dex what else has the guy who wrote it worked on? And is it just me or does it seem like horribly written fan fiction to any one else? With all the heroes seemingly working with one another at some point or another.

I am very fond of the Ork codex, though I might request some wargear that costs 1-2 pts since 6pt boyz don't really add up with all the 5 point interval upgrades

I don't think the SM codex is too terrible, but then I have only played about 2-3 games with it, and I never liked playing marines, just buying them.

Still, unless Phil Kelly's name is on a codex, I might be concerned. The IG codex is ok, but only ok.

Good thing then that the rumours say Phil Kelly is writing the DE book
Who actually wrote the Chaos book? He needs to be taken out back.

If the Chaos guy did the IG book, I'd be elated to have "Cult" Platoons (i.e. Mech, Light, Carapace, Drop), along with "Markable" Veterans.

As the IG shows, there are worse things than having your Codex Chaosified.

But according to rumor, Phil has been working on DE for a long time now. Perhaps he will have gotten tired of the whole thing, and will simply pass the buck over to Robin to clean up and finish...

Oh Christ no
Arbitary restrictions all round. 'No you cant take Archites in Wych squads'
'No Heamoculi can join Grotesques' and other such 'gems'

In my local store last week the talk was of a new codex that combined DemonHunters and WitchHunters into a single allied codex

General Mayhem wrote:In my local store last week the talk was of a new codex that combined DemonHunters and WitchHunters into a single allied codex

The studio has denied this, but who knows?

It would be great if they did do it, DH is a great range of minis but hard to use and win with. Also, now IG is done how do you do imperial allies? No mention of them in IG codex I can remember.

They're not combining DH and WH into a single Codex and, in fact, the next DH and WH Codices won't even be DH or WH Codices, they'll be Grey Knight and Sisters of Battle Codices, because the Inquisitorial side of things will be shrunk and genericised to the point of pointlessness (pun intended).

And the people out there who play Inquisitorial armies w/o GKs or SoBs (such as myself) can put their armies on the shelves next to their Lost & The Damned armies.

General Mayhem wrote:It would be great if they did do it, DH is a great range of minis but hard to use and win with. Also, now IG is done how do you do imperial allies? No mention of them in IG codex I can remember.

Doesn't need to be a mention. Full rules for using DH or WH as allies, or using allies with them, are in those respective codicies.

H.B.M.C. wrote:They're not combining DH and WH into a single Codex and, in fact, the next DH and WH Codices won't even be DH or WH Codices, they'll be Grey Knight and Sisters of Battle Codices, because the Inquisitorial side of things will be shrunk and genericised to the point of pointlessness (pun intended).

And the people out there who play Inquisitorial armies w/o GKs or SoBs (such as myself) can put their armies on the shelves next to their Lost & The Damned armies.

No more codex: carnival? So much for my Killer Klowns from Outer Space idea.

BrotherStynier wrote:On the note of the SM dex what else has the guy who wrote it worked on?

mat Ward was on War of the Ring, but thats as much as I know.

Speaking of WH and DH, I want a Deathwatch update. Some Ordos Xenos rules would be sweet.

Well, I know DH need a new codex because they're not doing any good in the games i've played. WH i haven't even seen the codex, so i guess we should be seeing them soon or they're going to be the next dark eldar.

Isn't there supposed to be a new race or something coming? I'm crossing my fingers for Adeptus Mechanicus.

Adeptus Mechanicus are human; we have that race already

There is a new race rumoured to be coming in Fantasy Battle, not 40K. If we do get a new 40K race, it may be New Squats (Demiurg), as Jervis did drop them as a possibility, after all the existing armies are brought to fifth edition.

AdMech make more sense than Inquisitorial armies.

Only GW's efforts in gauging the public's interest in them has been less then useful recently.

TakeABow wrote:Speaking of WH and DH, I want a Deathwatch update. Some Ordos Xenos rules would be sweet.

A nice, big forces of the imperium codex would be pretty nice.. I mean, there has to be a reason they listed DH and WH under that label in the 5th ed rulebook?

I have to admit I'm a little surprised the whole Deathwatch concept hasn't made it into the game Cool piece of fluff I think.

You can have Death Watch Kill Teams but beyond that nothing.

Which is sad really. The idea of a Deathwatch army is quite cool... so cool in fact that I already have one, but that's neither here nor there.

H.B.M.C. wrote:They're not combining DH and WH into a single Codex and, in fact, the next DH and WH Codices won't even be DH or WH Codices, they'll be Grey Knight and Sisters of Battle Codices, because the Inquisitorial side of things will be shrunk and genericised to the point of pointlessness (pun intended).

And the people out there who play Inquisitorial armies w/o GKs or SoBs (such as myself) can put their armies on the shelves next to their Lost & The Damned armies.

H.B.M.C. wrote:They're not combining DH and WH into a single Codex and, in fact, the next DH and WH Codices won't even be DH or WH Codices, they'll be Grey Knight and Sisters of Battle Codices, because the Inquisitorial side of things will be shrunk and genericised to the point of pointlessness (pun intended).

And the people out there who play Inquisitorial armies w/o GKs or SoBs (such as myself) can put their armies on the shelves next to their Lost & The Damned armies.

Hyperbole much?

Unlike LatD =][= have the distinct advantage of having actual model kits out.

There is no way GW is going to drop the rules for units that actually have a model. They haven't done that since 2nd to 3rd. Every example of a dropped unit since then has been a unit that GW never produced a model for and which players were meant to convert (skarboyz, the entirety of lost and the damned).

And the inquisitorial side of things is already quite small so there isn't really that much GW could get rid of.

Daemonhunters - 3 units, Inquisitors, Stormtroopers and Daemonhosts. Daemonhosts have a model so aren't going anywhere. Inquisitors have a model so aren't going anywhere although feasibly they may simplify the rules for retinues and stormtroopers are the only unit that may be dropped as they have no model/are just an Imperial Guard unit really.

Witchunters - 4 units, Inquisitors, Stormtroopers, Archo-flagellants and Penitent Engines. The same reasoning applies for the Inquisitors and Stormtroopers and the archo-flagellants and Penitent Engines both have models so they aren't going anywhere.


You are probably correct that GW will fiddle with the rules for inquisitorial henchmen and genericise them a bit and its all a bit up in the air regarding storm troopers but I think everything else is likely safe.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Hyperbole much?

When you feel the need to quote me twice, I can see it being hyperbole. But if we ignore that, no, it's not. Jervis (or the one that writes half-way decent Codices who's name escapes me) has said that they got a little 'carried away' with the Inquisitorial Codices and would be reducing them to be more about SoBs and GKs. That bodes ill for WH and DH players who don't use SoBs or GKs.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Unlike LatD =][= have the distinct advantage of having actual model kits out.

Mmm... because GW's never invalidated a model line before. Nope. Nu-uh. Never.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:There is no way GW is going to drop the rules for units that actually have a model.

How long have you been playing 40K, or been involved in the illustrious GW hobby experience?

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:They haven't done that since 2nd to 3rd. Every example of a dropped unit since then has been a unit that GW never produced a model for and which players were meant to convert (skarboyz, the entirety of lost and the damned).

[Removed my own snarkiness]

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:And the inquisitorial side of things is already quite small so there isn't really that much GW could get rid of.

That's what you think. Say goodbye to all the various Henchmen, and replace them with "Henchman". Single statline. Single list of options. No different types. Familiar becomes Wargear. Daemonhosts, Archo-Flegellants... all genericised - and no dobut made worse... if you can even imagine it - because the drive will be new GK and SoB kits and they'll want to sell them, so they'll buff the rules and ignore the old models.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Daemonhunters - 3 units, Inquisitors, Stormtroopers and Daemonhosts. Daemonhosts have a model so aren't going anywhere. Inquisitors have a model so aren't going anywhere although feasibly they may simplify the rules for retinues and stormtroopers are the only unit that may be dropped as they have no model/are just an Imperial Guard unit really.

Witchunters - 4 units, Inquisitors, Stormtroopers, Archo-flagellants and Penitent Engines. The same reasoning applies for the Inquisitors and Stormtroopers and the archo-flagellants and Penitent Engines both have models so they aren't going anywhere.

So... what then? Screw the people who like fielding armies like that, like my Inquisitorial army with 60 Storm Troopers, each in a Valk, led by several different types of Inquisitors, backed up by Daemonhosts, Archo's and Priests? They haven't got many units, so just forget about them then.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:You are probably correct that GW will fiddle with the rules for inquisitorial henchmen and genericise them a bit and its all a bit up in the air regarding storm troopers but I think everything else is likely safe.

Well that's what I'm getting at - - but I don't want it to be genericised. Why does "revision" for GW mean "make everything as fething boring as humanly possible". Why do they make books like the Ork Codex, which took Orks from the horrid Generic Goff nightmare of third and turned them into an interesting and vibrant force, and then they go and make a Codex like the Guard Codex, where evrything changed for no redily apparent reason and things just got more... standard... for no real gain.

I want another lightning-bolt Codex, like Orks, something that changes the game and gives players a vibrant force (Nob Bikers notwithstanding), not another fizzle flash-in-the-pan like 'Chaos' and Guard.

FlammingGaunt wrote: WH i haven't even seen the codex, so i guess we should be seeing them soon or they're going to be the next dark eldar.

I wouldn't wish that even on the armies that I hate and think redundant...

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Witchunters - 4 units, Inquisitors, Stormtroopers, Archo-flagellants and Penitent Engines. The same reasoning applies for the Inquisitors and Stormtroopers and the archo-flagellants and Penitent Engines both have models so they aren't going anywhere.

Two units: Arco-Flagellants and Penitent Engines are Ecclesiarchal, not Inquisitorial. They are effectively a part of the Sisters (Codex: Sisters of Battle also included Ecclesiarchal units).

@HBMC

I have been involved in GW games since the early days of 3rd edition 40k. I am well aware that GW has previously invalidated entire model lines or models from armies but I can't think of any examples since 3rd ed.

Actually that isn't quite true, I can think of some examples but there are usually special circumstances regarding them i.e.

Leman Russ Exterminators and Griffons disappeared but they are now back.

Some special characters have gone. Off the top of my head Lord Solar Marcharius, Captain Cortez, Gaunt's Ghosts and The Last Chancers are the only ones I can think of. Generally though special characters just become generic commanders in that instance like Njal Stormcaller becoming the standard rune priest model.

Wulfen are kind of in limbo at the moment but they do have an apoc data sheet and it is a strong likelihood that they will feature in the new space wolf book.

Every other time GW has changed the rules the models they invalidated are ones that required conversion i.e. removing weapon options for dreadnoughts that they didn't produce, removing skarboyz from the current ork codex, ceasing support for lost and the damned.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not defending this practise. It is a dick move for GW to invalidate anybody's models. If they make rules that encourage conversions, offer options and units that reward conversions then they should continue to support those rules otherwise it is just pissing on the hard work of players. Dropping latd is one of the worst things GW ever did in my perspective and I am not fond of the trend for genericising as seen in the chaos codex and daemon codecii (athough I do think the ork, marine and to a lesser extent guard codecii are excellent)

I'm only pointing out this practise to suggest that if GW makes a kit for a unit then that unit is not likely to disappear completely.

So yes, you are probably correct that if the design team has stated that they want to downplay the influence of the =][= then Inquisitors will probably have simplified rules with simplified henchmen (although I sincerely doubt we will just get one "henchmen" entry. The Chaos codex may have stupidity like that but Guard advisors and Marine Honour Guard/Command Squad specialists made it intact).

But I disagree with you that archo-flagellants/daemonhosts/penitent engines are likely to disappear. Will their rules change? Almost certainly but they aren't going anywhere You stated in another thread that GW is going to take away an Inquisitorial unit for every SOB or GK unit it adds. I don't see the basis for this reasoning because I don't see a recent history of GW removing units from codecii.

It sucks for you that the allies rules and the fate of storm troopers, both of which you clearly need in order for your army to work, are up in the air regarding rumours and I sympathise. Nobody should have their army invalidated in such a manner.

I also agree with your desire for more revisions to be like the ork codex, adding flavour and options rather than reducing them. Again I am not defending any trend by Gw to the opposite.

I just want to put some perspective on your chicken little routine. Past practise says most of the =][= stuff isn't going anywhere.

Besides as I understand it you use your own rules for 40k anyway. Pure inquisition was never going to be top tier force so you were clearly using it in casual play and between friends willing to let you use your own rules and apoc you will still probabyl be able to use your pure inquisition force. Again, not defending GW here, it would clearly be better if your army is legal I just want to put some perspective on this.

And I have no idea what the quoting twice thing is all about. Something to do with the network being down briefly at work when I tried to reply I feel.

@Elric I'm well aware that archo-flagellants, priests and penitent engines are part of the Ecclesiarchy but they are widely lumped together with the Inquisitorial units as the "freakshow" (along with repentia) so I think it is fair to lump them together here for this discussion.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Which is sad really. The idea of a Deathwatch army is quite cool... so cool in fact that I already have one, but that's neither here nor there.

That explains why they never did a Codex for them... It's part of a plot by GW to see how many unsupported armies one man can own.

Get your wolves, paint them utras and move on. The wolves went to visit the squats in the warp and got lost. I would rather see a new chapter and fluff then bring back an old crusty marine codex. I would like to see the Dark Elves get an update though.

rodfarruguia wrote:Get your wolves, paint them utras and move on. The wolves went to visit the squats in the warp and got lost. I would rather see a new chapter and fluff then bring back an old crusty marine codex. I would like to see the Dark Elves get an update though.

They got their army book update not all that long ago.

To be fair, the DE update was essentially the 3E one with a new cover.

People are getting Dark Elves and Dark Eldar mixed up.

TakeABow wrote:To be fair, the DE update was essentially the 3E one with a new cover.

Calling what DE got an 'update' is very generous. It was an errata compilation. With the treatment they're finally getting now, they will be a completely different army in all but name.

I want to agree with rodfarruguia because I think SMs deserve only one codex like everybody else, with slightly different rules to distinguish chapters, like Eldar do with craftworlds. Plus I personally don't care about SWs, but SWs is what we're getting with their very own codex. To be fair, they are a very unique and stylized chapter, far too deeply rooted in the 40k history. The thought of any SM chapter being squatted is laughable. Not gonna happen. In playing this game, we all accept that our nemeses will be given goodies too... Unless your nemesis has been DE. But they've been promised redemption.

I played DE from back when the starter box came with DE and SM. Me and a friend both got one, and we traded models.

That was 9? years ago.

Archonate wrote:with slightly different rules to distinguish chapters, like Eldar do with craftworlds.

Uhh... Eldar don't any more. GW took that away.

Really now? Wow GW is stripping versatility from armies. Tyranids, Chaos, now Eldar. If I were a SW player I'd be worried.
I guess it shows that I'm behind on the changes brought by 5th Ed codices. Such things happen when your investment is neglected for 9 years. I've played DE since the dawn of 3rd ed. Lucky for us, the versatility of the army can only go up.

Archonate wrote:Really now? Wow GW is stripping versatility from armies. Tyranids, Chaos, now Eldar. If I were a SW player I'd be worried.
I guess it shows that I'm behind on the changes brought by 5th Ed codices. Such things happen when your investment is neglected for 9 years. I've played DE since the dawn of 3rd ed. Lucky for us, the versatility of the army can only go up.

The stripping of varient lists for Tyranids, Chaos, and Eldar, actually occured with 4rth edition. Though the Tyranids was only a Chapter Approved Article (Seeding Swarms I think) towards the end of 3rd.

Archonate wrote:GW is stripping versatility from armies. Tyranids, Chaos, now Eldar.

GW is approaching versatility differently. The basic lists are more flexible, but GW removes the variant lists.

By analogy, GW is making each Codex more like a more broadly-configurable Tactical squad, rather than a group of narrowly-defined Aspects / Cult Marines.

Well what I think GW should do (which they're probably not going to) is just cram all those things into one codex, all SM chapters in one codex but have nothing lost. Also add GS cult to tyranid codex, and chaos cults to CSM codex. and so forth

GW is approaching versatility differently. The basic lists are more flexible, but GW removes the variant lists.

By analogy, GW is making each Codex more like a more broadly-configurable Tactical squad, rather than a group of narrowly-defined Aspects / Cult Marines.

Oh I agree with the changes. I think that's how armies should be, it's creates better, more manageable balance between armies. But we used to hear a lot of complaining from Chaos players about their latest codex. And I knew a lot of people personally who quit playing Tyranids when that 4th ed codex emerged because no matter how they sliced their army list, they couldn't beat SMs anymore. The problem is that while all these armies are being pruned, SMs seem to be growing in all directions. But I'd need to read all the latest codices to really get an accurate sense of how balance is shaping up between SM and non-SM armies.

Those who have read them, what do you think?

I tend to agree with FlammingGaunt. To dedicate separate codices to subdivisions of the same army is going a little overboard. That practice has lead to the neglect of many far more deserving armies. GW has proven it's inability to keep up with itself. They don't really need fewer armies to do so, just fewer codices.

@Archonate: Yeah, I agree with you. It's mildly irritating that there is one set of rules for SMs and another set of rules for everybody else.

But I guess, when you're the 900-lb gorilla who drives the bulk of GW sales and are larger than any other game line, I guess you get to break a few rules.

While I'm not happy to have lost my Codex: Craftworlds, if it got Orks fixed 3 months earlier, I think that's a fair sacrifice on my part. OTOH, if I lost C: CWE for GW to cram in C: DoW BR SM, that's pretty weaksauce.

From a pure playability standpoint, the newer Codices are more idiot-proof, but they do have some real issues with backwards-compatibility. Personally, I'm not entirely happy with my current Eldar, SM, and now IG Codices but I do suspect that they're pretty well-balanced against one another. CSM is kind of the only army list that I'm really happy with at the moment, and it still needs to be re-built! But I said I'd work on IG this year, and I really ought to push on that over the coming months...

Personally, I just wish GW would be a bit more transparent about the Codex update schedule. It's the not knowing that's most irritating.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Personally, I just wish GW would be a bit more transparent about the Codex update schedule. It's the not knowing that's most irritating.

No question there. If they just said outright `Sisters are being done somewhere around 20xx to 20xx+1' I would feel much happier. It would be good if they were a little more open with all releases. I know I am currently holding off on buying more Dark Elves because I do not know what will be done in the second wave later this year, and I have all I will ever need of the first wave. If they just said `we are going to do X, Y, Z' I would go out and buy A, B and C knowing they are not going to be redone for another decade.

Funny thing is, even SM players are one by one starting to say "Meh, SMs are cool and all, but what about the rest of the universe???"

As far as their release schedule secrecy, yeah, it has become obnoxious. I'm not sure why they think they have to be so ridiculously hush-hush about a release that is 2 months away, but knowing GW I'd bet it's because they think it will somehow earn them a buck or two... Maybe they want people to keep buying old models for a longer period? I dunno. Whatever it is, it's petty.

Yeah, I am seeing that here too. The Space Marine players are growing sick of facing other Space Marines, and even the hardcore ones are getting sick of the pandering their army receives.

Although I really, really like variant army lists, to be fair I remember that the practice led to some lists with stupidly over or underpowered aspects to them, like the flipping Alaitoc Ranger list that could just about beat you before the game even started.

I don't like the current codex formats, and how they tend to make new things very, very powerful to sell them when they would already sell plenty because the dang thing is a great new kit (Valkyries, Carnifexes, etc.) They sacrifice balance to the bean counters like that.

Part of their approach that causes me to just feel things are blander is that the variants we are used to and are still capable of fielding some sort of fascimile of is that they aren't elaborated upon. We loved the characterful stuff about the variant lists, keep that fluff around and really sell all that crazyness. It's great that you can fit all that stuff into one list, sure, but don't let all the unique stuff and themes and ideas all fall to the wayside once you do that. I don't think there is any reference at all to a mono-god force in the current Chaos Codex, when even Pete Haines himself admitted that due to the overwhelming response to the old Index Astartes Articles and what armies people were playing, that single legion or mono god forces were preferred by the vast majority of players.

Does anyone else think it's interesting that, despite SM having an 'uber' new codex, all the players at GT's etc are playing Khorne demons and dual lash CSM with few exceptions?

I really hope the next couple of codexes are xeno/non-imperium. Although, i would not complain if they sneaked a new Sisters' book in between them!

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:
I'm only pointing out this practise to suggest that if GW makes a kit for a unit then that unit is not likely to disappear completely.

And if you were talking about plastic models, I'd agree with you. Metal models, and their molds are dirt-cheap, wear out, and are harder to replace. As a result, I could absolutely believe that GW would 'get rid of' large swathes of metal models.

Remember, GW only said they would continue to support "armies" that currently have codexes (codicies), they didn't say anything about models. So I'm with HBMC on this one (as another DH player with no GKs, and all Stormies).

Now onto other items:

GW likely doesn't say much about their release schedule because it constantly changes. They apparently can't pick a direction and stick with it (codex power level, format, wargear, whatever). I'm sure that in another 6 months or so, we'll see another sea-change in how things are done. The 3 month window allows them to actually know for sure that a particular product is coming out. They'd constantly be pushing things around, delaying them, etc. and everyone would complain more if we knew the longer-out schedule.

Take for instance the current: IG, Planetstrike, then maybe SW launches. Dark Eldar had been rumored in here, but then disappeared to be replaced by SW. Probably as a way to continue to drive sales (cause everyone buys marines!). In a stinky economy, go with your bread and butter: terrain buildings, marines, and a codex that is largely Mech with lots of tanks (IG). That'll keep things afloat.

Everyone is playing CSM with dual lash in tournies because that's the one build that doesn't have a solid counter, although, guess who - new IG - with their tank squadrons, psychic choir, and all Mech potential makes them the best bet to break the lash problem, much as it has minimized the biker Nob problem. We've seen one pretty rough/bad/powerful build in each of the last couple dexes, which unfortunately seems to be something GW just can't shake.

I though they were on a good direction when Eldar, then Dark Angels hit the scene. They were both (at the time) pretty solid, nothing splashy, but a comparable level. Since then, they've been relegated to the 3rd string, DA more than Eldar.

Frankly, as a long-time player (from 2nd through 5th), I'm losing interest in it all. I haven't bought the Marine Dex, Ork Dex, Daemon Dex for 5th. Its just not that interesting anymore, which is a shame, because I used to buy everything because it was a good read if nothing else.

If they made just one book Inquisition or Armies of Imperium or whatever and put the Greyknights in that it would be cool. I think everyone here wants to see a Mechanis er Admec Whatever the mars people are called army.


That would be badass.

Elric of Grans wrote:No question there. If they just said outright `Sisters are being done somewhere around 20xx to 20xx+1' I would feel much happier.

We still don't actually know what's coming out in July, so it'd be wishful thinking to think that we'd get a preview or a date such as that.

... I know. That was the whole point of that little sub-topic. We know nothing, but I wish Games Workshop would be a little more vocal in their plans.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Elric of Grans wrote:No question there. If they just said outright `Sisters are being done somewhere around 20xx to 20xx+1' I would feel much happier.

We still don't actually know what's coming out in July, so it'd be wishful thinking to think that we'd get a preview or a date such as that.

I'm sure we know about july since pre-orders are possible now.

A few GD spain rumors:


-codex space wolves ready for localization = coming soon
-codex necrons worked on
-codex tyranids worked on
-codex blood angels worked on
-codex black templars worked on
-codex dark space elfs "a year away"


This year wolftime.

A new Codex rumor!

But why it has to be more SM (BT), is completely beyond me...

Your GW-fu is weak John.

1hadhq wrote:I'm sure we know about july since pre-orders are possible now.

What's a Shrine of the Aquila then? Does the Land Speeder Storm come with crew like rumoured or not? What is the Battlescape? What's actually in the Spear of Sicarius (ie. not a rumour)?

Do you know these things 1hadhq?

Enough!

We shall watch this release space, for more will certainly come, in due time..

Damn, I need to grow me that hairy Lee moustache something fierce, otherwise I'll never be able to dispense faux chinese wisdom.

H.B.M.C. wrote:What's a Shrine of the Aquila then?

It is terrain. If it is the one I remember seeing a while back, it is a shattered wall with a stained glass window and a floor with rubble over it. I plan on getting this one, as I rather liked the look of it. The Battlescape is the same as the Cityscape: all the new terrain in a single box. I read something about the Spear, but I cannot remember now. Apparently it matches up to some list in a Codex, or the rule book... something like that.

So that'll be a "We don't know for sure" then will it Elric?

I rest my case...

H.B.M.C. wrote:That's not the only thing he's lacking... but moving on...

1hadhq wrote:I'm sure we know about july since pre-orders are possible now.

What's a Shrine of the Aquila then? Does the Land Speeder Storm come with crew like rumoured or not? What is the Battlescape? What's actually in the Spear of Sicarius (ie. not a rumour)?

Do you know these things 1hadhq?

The first part of the releases is with pics at GW's site...
the secondary part hasn't pics yet, but prices...
Link:
http://www.tabletopwelt.de/forum/showthread.php?t=116902

From its pricing, its safe to assume that a LS-storm has a crew. There are no open topped vehicles without crew coming from GW lately.
Spear of sicarius is a army box, but i doubt any new models inside. At 142 models, could be just a lot of droppods/marines.
Shrine of the aquila is a cathedral, maybe some parts from the background we have seen before ( gothic windows twice the standard
CoD parts size? ).

Sorry i don't know everything, but I'll post it here if i find out.

IIRC, the contents of the Spear of Sicarius contains all the models required to make his Company as illustrated in the Space Marine Codex.

Now whether this means conversion packs for old school design flamers etc, I dunno. Though that would be a nifty bitz pack I feel.

1hadhq wrote:Sorry i don't know everything, but I'll post it here if i find out.

Hey, look, it's not a bad reflection on you, it's just that my (original) point was that it is wishful thinking to think GW will reveal any future plans when we don't even know what half of next month's releases look like.

Ah, now I remember! Shrine of the Aquila is that resin terrain piece released during the EoT campaign. I can't seem to find a picture but it's that pre-painted ruined shrine with the cheap plastic stained glass windows that easily lose form when exposed to sunlight. Yeah I got one.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Sorry i don't know everything, but I'll post it here if i find out.

Hey, look, it's not a bad reflection on you, it's just that my (original) point was that it is wishful thinking to think GW will reveal any future plans when we don't even know what half of next month's releases look like.

Its a good point.

Still, if we gather all those hints from various GD, then we'll get some ideas whats coming.


A point of mine would be:

This year had 6 months and 1 codex release.
If we count planetstrike as "slot", how many codices will be released this year?

IG + PS + SW + X? or just IG + PS + SW?

Codicies left to go this year Space Wolves and possibly one more although I wouldn't bet the morgage on that last one as it may move into early 2010.

Like everybody else I don't know for sure.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

What's a Shrine of the Aquila then? Does the Land Speeder Storm come with crew like rumoured or not? What is the Battlescape? What's actually in the Spear of Sicarius (ie. not a rumour)?

The Shrine is a COD style building ( in terms of appearence anyway apparently, not sure if it is modular like them, but I doubt it). Has double doors and a big Imperial Aquila over them. It's damaged like the old chapel thing they did I believe.

Battle scape is a bundled terrain pack with the placcy board and the new terrain releases. been told that is " nothing that special", but might make a good purchase for a gaming club.

What I don't understand is there doesn't seem to be any plans at all to release non-imperial buildings for planetstrike. It would be nice to see some sort of variation I mean I guess the Eldar use imperial bastions?

Too specific. Most of the wars that happen in this game happen on Imperial worlds. Chaos use Imperial things w/spikes & skulls, and Orks use Imperial things with lots of things stuck on. So you can take a Bastion and make it Chaos-y or Orky with some bits. You can't make them Eldar-y or Tau-y.

Eldar and Tau buildings are too specific to bother with as there is a very small market for such a thing (most people don't play Tau/Eldar, most people do play Imperium, therefore releasing Imperial buildings makes sense).

BrookM wrote:Ah, now I remember! Shrine of the Aquila is that resin terrain piece released during the EoT campaign. I can't seem to find a picture but it's that pre-painted ruined shrine with the cheap plastic stained glass windows that easily lose form when exposed to sunlight. Yeah I got one.

I sure hope that isn't the case and that it's actually more than that, per some of the other conjecture here. IIRC, that stained-glass window set was featured at the bargain price of $75, and knowing GW, I think that price could easily materialize somewhere just south of $100 if released this year.

To all the people hoping for a new army for 40k it's not going to happen for a while. quite a codex's are in 3rd edition or below, the only way I could see that happening is if they replace an army with the new one. I wouldn't want one because there's already like 16 codex's a good portion SM factions. what GW should do is group all the special SM faction into 1 supa dex, and save time and paper.

FlammingGaunt - Codex Daemons was a 'new' Codex, was it not? I don't think the backlog of un-revised Codices means anything to GW. If it did, DE, SW, WH, DH and Necrons would already have new Codices.

Why stop there. Hey we could just group SM, Non-Codex SM Chapters, Necrons, WH, GK, CM all under "Codex 3+". Then we Could Group IG, Eldar, and Dark Eldar under "Codex 5+". Lastly we have "Codex 6+" with Tyranids and Orks. There saves paper and energy and EVERYONE is happy....No?

How about all you guys stop whining! Seriously, do I go around and say Nooooo not EMO Eldar....anything but Emo Eldar. No! Do I ask for GW to just group Emo Eldar in with Codex Eldar. No, I don't.

You guys want your Demon Marines...Fine. You Want your Terminator Marines...Fine. You want your Drag Marines...Fine. You want your Emo Eldar...Fine. So stop whining because I want my Grey, Viking, Bitey Marines.

wyomingfox wrote:You guys want your Demon Marines...Fine. You Want your Terminator Marines...Fine. You want your Drag Marines...Fine. You want your Emo Eldar...Fine. So stop whining because I want my Grey, Viking, Bitey Marines.

The key difference is that you are actually getting your Viking Marines in 4 months.

The other guys still have some waiting to do.

wyomingfox wrote:You guys want your Demon Marines...Fine. You Want your Terminator Marines...Fine. You want your Drag Marines...Fine. You want your Emo Eldar...Fine. So stop whining because I want my Grey, Viking, Bitey Marines.

Nobody is saying you shouldn't get your werewolf vikings from space. We all know they are next. The suggestion to lump SM chapters into one big codex is for the sake of freeing up release slotting for other armies in the future. And since all SM chapters are basically the same besides a few rules tweaks and Special Characters, there's really no good reason for them to take up so many release slots per year.
It's really GWs slothfulness that has everybody so upset. If they weren't so slow, maybe all our favorite SM chapters could get their very own codex, along with every Chaos Chapter, Eldar Craftworld, Tau Sept, Ork Clan, DE Kabal, IG planet, Necron Tomb World, Etc. But since all those armies are condensed into one codex each, SMs should be no exception. We've all made the same investment to play the game and are no less deserving of attention.

Archonate wrote:Funny thing is, even SM players are one by one starting to say "Meh, SMs are cool and all, but what about the rest of the universe???"

This is called market saturation.

Hollismason wrote:If they made just one book Inquisition or Armies of Imperium or whatever and put the Greyknights in that it would be cool. I think everyone here wants to see a Mechanis er Admec Whatever the mars people are called army.

Well one rumor that briefly floated around before Ordo Xenos conceptually died, was that if Ordo Xenos had been done, the Mechanicum would have been touched on because of their connection. Now it looks like its up to FW to do it. I think alot of us would love to see a large collective book touching on a lot of the branches of the Imperium.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:You guys want your Demon Marines...Fine. You Want your Terminator Marines...Fine. You want your Drag Marines...Fine. You want your Emo Eldar...Fine. So stop whining because I want my Grey, Viking, Bitey Marines.

The key difference is that you are actually getting your Viking Marines in 4 months.

The other guys still have some waiting to do.

Yeah, but I and other SW players waited patiently for over 9 years for the new codex and models. And that is the whole thing. You have Tau players wanting to squat SW so that they can get thier Codex sooner...ummm you got a new codex in 2005 (Hell, you waited less than 5 years for a codex update). You have Necron Players sreaming that SW need to be squated...Ummm 2002, wait yer turn. WH and DH wanting to squat SW...yours were in 2003. As for Emo Eldar, they are coming up in 2010...and untill GW publically announces they are squated I won't believe otherwise.


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Archonate wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:And since all SM chapters are basically the same besides a few rules tweaks and Special Characters, there's really no good reason for them to take up so many release slots per year.

SW use to be very divergent from SM, just a little less divergent than CSM. SW had true grit, counter assault, were not effected by overwhelming numbers in CC, and accute senses, skills that were only allocated to SW when they came out in 3rd edition and not found amoungst other codices at the time. LF were 5 man squads that could split fire, the only unit in 3rd to do that till the Tau Codex came out. Scouts were elites and were the only unit capable of coming off the back board. We were the only ones with Venerable Dreadnoughts. We had wolves. SW were the only SM with squad sizes above 10 (Blood Claws) untill BT came out. Our tactical units (Blood Claws) had WS and BS 3. None of our Troops got Heavy Weapons which was relatively unheard of in 3rd Ed. Our terminators were customizable and couldn't deep strike. We were the only SM army that could drop pod. They had a Leman Russ. If SW closely resemble SM now it is only because GW has been handing out traits and skills to other armies that were at one time exclusively SW.