So I saw Terminator:Salvation the other day, which by the way rocked. But I couldn't get out of my mind Necrons. Yes, Necrons are copies of Terminators. But I mean, if Necrons were more like Terminators, they'd be more, well, interesting. You know that a codex is bad when people remark about how the people who have to write the Necron codex die of boredom. So I was thinking.

Why not have Necrons be:

WS:3 BS:4 S:4 T:5 W:1 I:3 A:1 LD: 10 SV: 3+

Their weapon is a Gauss Rifle (Flayer?). I don't know. I don't play Necrons.

It is R:30" Str:5 Ap: 6, Heavy 1, Gauss

Gauss is defined as: Rending, Glances on a 6 unless it can penetrate instead. Counts vehicles as being open-topped.

Necrons are all Relentless. They may choose whether to pass or fail morale tests (ala Marneus Calgar), and they may fire into combat at a -1 BS and with their normal initiative. So if you charge them with Orks or whatever, they will be shooting you at BS3. I think that this is pretty good, but of course they're still going to get the living, well, you know, beaten out of them.

We'll Be Back...I'm still working on this. But it will have some huge changes. Absolutely no FNP in my opinion. Why make the most boring codex even more boring?

Necrons are all Relentless. They may choose whether to pass or fail morale tests (ala Marneus Calgar)

This one really speaks to me, the reason they're broken in my opinion is due to the fact they'll almost always lose their assaults and be sweeping advanced on int 2. I never thought necrons should have to take morale tests, it doesn't sound right fluffwise, what do necrons have to be scared of? The ctan already ripped their souls out of their bodies and placed them in living machines, I doubt that anything can do much worse than that.

I don't really think stats line for the necrons (and their guns) are that bad. Its how they deal with other things and their special rules.
Heres my list of what problems the necrons have...

1> Sweeping Advance insurance
Losing an entire unit of necrons to a sweeping advance is just devastating. While giving them something like ATSKNF is a bit much (and reserved for marines), Necrons need some way to prevent a complete squad wipe due to one bad roll (Stubborn only helps as much as your dice). One idea I had is that if Necrons get caught up in a sweeping advance, the necrons still get away but those lost in the assault do not get their We'll be back roll due to the enemy destroying their bodies. Maybe even giving every Necron the Stubborn special rule might help too.

2> Gauss weapon special rules
While the ability to glance any vehicle with about any gun is nice, its no decent way to actually deal with tanks and with the super rise in tank loving, it is something necrons are needing. I do like the idea of the guns getting a glancing hit and with +1 on the damage result table (So a total of -1).

3> We'll be back
While I agree that making this into FnP isn't a great idea, it does have the same purpose. We'll be back as it stands now is a bit complex and I usually need up explaining it as FnP any how, just with more "except when...." lines. We'll be back is what really defines the Necrons through and FnP is no longer something really that super special any more with each new codex it seems.

4> Flayed Ones and Pariahs
The flayed ones do need a little boost in my opinion. While some people do like them, to a lot they just don't make their worth especially with fearless being given left and right to everyone. The Pariahs are in a much worse case through, they really need a over hull to get on the right page.

5> Ability to play smaller games
This is more of something due to either personal preference, having an opponent with a small army, or for whatever reason. But with 460 points of the army being decided for you by just the FoC is a pain in smaller games. Not sure of a fix myself through : /

I also agree with SirRouga in that stat changes aren't necessary. I think points cost should be reduced.

Ok, yes, we have WBB and a 3+ save. But, in essence, we lose out in CC thanks to I2 and the chance of having an entire squad of precious Warriors lost to a sweeping advance. 16 points per Necron would be nice, though I may be insane.

Would it be possible to get different new troops? Most armies have a troop choice that costs under 100, at least before upgrades and everything. Maybe something lightly armored?

Plus, the necrons need some weapon choices. It does not need to be the full compliment that can be had for the SM or 'nids, but some sort of missle launcher so in a 500-pt battle the lord is not your only anti-tank? Maybe a template weapon to deal with hoards?

rashad wrote:Would it be possible to get different new troops? Most armies have a troop choice that costs under 100, at least before upgrades and everything. Maybe something lightly armored?

Plus, the necrons need some weapon choices. It does not need to be the full compliment that can be had for the SM or 'nids, but some sort of missle launcher so in a 500-pt battle the lord is not your only anti-tank? Maybe a template weapon to deal with hoards?

The monolith is pretty good at being a template weapon.

I think by template weapon he was referring to flame throwers and the such for smaller point games where a monolith is not really in the budget.

I don't think Necrons should have flame throwers through. Maybe some with a small blast would work through.

SirRouga wrote:I think by template weapon he was referring to flame throwers and the such for smaller point games where a monolith is not really in the budget.

I don't think Necrons should have flame throwers through. Maybe some with a small blast would work through.

Personally, I think for anti-horde, the necron need something with a high rate of fire. Though, with how the weapons of the necrons are described, a gauss template weapon wouldn't be inconceivable.

Here are two suggestions for Necron Weapons that could help against horde armies:

The little-seen weapon known as the Gauss Ravager is, in many ways reminiscent of an ancient Terran Gatling Gun. The abnormally large power cylinder is surrounded by barrels, which fire rapidly at targeted enemies.
Gauss Ravager: 24" Str:6 AP:4 Heavy 5, Gauss. (Gets Hot?)

The dreaded Gauss Devourer is an hereunto unseen weapon of the Necron forces. The device seems to utilize the Necron Gauss technology to power a "wave" effect, with everything in the weapon's path being shredded to component atoms.

Devourer: Template Str:4 AP:5 Assault 1, Gauss.

The Ravager, I would suspect, would be found only on Immortals, or destroyers. The Devourer could be used by lords, Warriors, practically any necron unit.

As to an anti-tank weapon...

Necron "Hornet": Dubbed by the buzzing noise it makes when preparing to fire, this weapon is respected by any force that has fought against it. Using strange Gauss energies, the Hornet fires a single, highly energized sliver at insane velocities. Anything hit by the shot faces extreme destruction.

Hornet: Range:36" Str:8 AP:1 Heavy 1, Gets Hot!,
The Hornet adds an additional d6 to armor penetration if the target is within 12", as the shot still burns with strange gauss energies.

This, I'm thinking, heavy destroyer only.

ack! through=/=though
But back to the topic.
I think that stubborn would be enough of a fix for the sweeping advance thing. It would make it so they only have a 1/12 chance of trying to run when they lose combat, and make sense, seeing as they're machines of death. They shouldn't be failing leadership left and right. (fearless would make more sense, but now fearless is just another way to lose in CC)
Another problem with necrons, though, is the phase out nonsense. One player-made codex I saw had all necrons as stubborn and had phase out "Whenever a unit fails a moral test, they are removed from the board." This may seem a bit harsh, but it actually plays pretty well from what I've seen. However, if phase out is changed, something would have to be done about the monolith. Phase out is currently just about the only reliable way to take that sucker off the field.
I actually like WBB as it stands (even with all its hideous problems) It sets necrons apart, where otherwise they'd just be SMs with scary masks and no heavy weapons.

Keep the points the same; give them FNP and WBB; give back mixed Destroyers option (instead of dedicated ability only), AND FOR GODS SAKE FIND A FREAKING POWER WEAPON ON A WARRIOR SQUAD!

Giving the extra d6 to the current Heavy Gauss Cannon would be nice.

Make scarabs troops choices (since they come on the fething sprue).

Personally, I think for anti-horde, the necron need something with a high rate of fire. Though, with how the weapons of the necrons are described, a gauss template weapon wouldn't be inconceivable.

Here are two suggestions for Necron Weapons that could help against horde armies:

The little-seen weapon known as the Gauss Ravager is, in many ways reminiscent of an ancient Terran Gatling Gun. The abnormally large power cylinder is surrounded by barrels, which fire rapidly at targeted enemies.
Gauss Ravager: 24" Str:6 AP:4 Heavy 5, Gauss. (Gets Hot?)

The dreaded Gauss Devourer is an hereunto unseen weapon of the Necron forces. The device seems to utilize the Necron Gauss technology to power a "wave" effect, with everything in the weapon's path being shredded to component atoms.

Devourer: Template Str:4 AP:5 Assault 1, Gauss.

The Ravager, I would suspect, would be found only on Immortals, or destroyers. The Devourer could be used by lords, Warriors, practically any necron unit.

As to an anti-tank weapon...

Necron "Hornet": Dubbed by the buzzing noise it makes when preparing to fire, this weapon is respected by any force that has fought against it. Using strange Gauss energies, the Hornet fires a single, highly energized sliver at insane velocities. Anything hit by the shot faces extreme destruction.

Hornet: Range:36" Str:8 AP:1 Heavy 1, Gets Hot!,
The Hornet adds an additional d6 to armor penetration if the target is within 12", as the shot still burns with strange gauss energies.

This, I'm thinking, heavy destroyer only.

I really like the idea of the devourer and giving heavy destroyers 2d6 armor pen. I don't like the idea of things getting hot though.

Think of it this way, necrons are made out of living metal that convers a +3 save like marine power armor, this covers their whole body including their hands. If something got hot, I doubt a necron would care. Not only this, but the way gauss works, it's more like a microwave, by transmitting and rearranging atoms to break down the structure of an object, thus "Flaying it".

See, why not rename the Gauss Flayer the Gauss Cannon Rifle, and then the Gauss Flayer can be R:13" Str 4 Ap 6 Heavy 4, Gauss, Pinning

Stay JUST out of assault range.

I'm also happy to see that most of you are fine with the suggestions so far.

What I'm NOT big fan of is the boring MEQ statline. These are freaking undead robots coming for your soul, not humans in powered armor.

I like Sir Rouga's 1st point a lot, I must say.

I think the statline for the warriors are fine, actually most of the necron stat lines are fine imo. I would agree the CC units need some work.

I also think most necron gauss wep are ok as well, in both range and effectivness, but more variety couldn't hurt.

Here is what I think needs to be done.

A generic points decution in warriors (should be about the same as the basic SM).
Stubborn to the entire army (not relentless).
WBB/FNP or something is iconic of the necrons but perhaps on a 5+ if you make them stubborn. Have to work on that one still.

C'tan - they disapear. Lets face it they are rather broken and well, they eat up far to many points the crons need in troops and other areas like tank busting. Either simplify the gack out of them or remove them.

Monoliths - in their current state they are better than the landraider. I would hope living metal turns into a 4+ obscurity from any shooting attack. Now they are killable in melee and from melta (which keeps their points down)

Phase Out - if C'tan go and Monoliths become killable then I would hope that this would go away. They are the only army who can just disapear if you kill off enough of their troops.

I'll probably have more ideas later, need more time to think.

C'Tan are not "broken", they're just expensive.

They're making them Apoc-only anyway, so quit yer whinin.

Phase out is good, considering how surviveable the entire Necron Army is.

Monoliths just need to be more expensive.

As a Necron-only player, I think that most of what they have is pretty decent, but here is a rundown (some of it is incoherent):



Lord: Pretty much fine. Starts with a power weapon, S5 T5 (can be upped to T6), and decent I and A. Doesn't really need any changes.

Warriors: Just about perfect, ALTHOUGH one option to separate them from MEQs could be to make them worse at CC (lower WS), and make them T5, to make them the tough warriors they are supposed to be. Also MAYBE give them some wargear (not sure what though).

Immortals: Just about perfect. If warriors get WS3 and T5, immortals could either be the same, or get T6 (but that seems a bit much for immortals). But yeah, pretty good as is.

Flayed Ones: Oh god. These need changes. They need either a Higher T or WS, or more A, or some ability to make them more useful.

Pariahs: Probably the MOST needed changes. If Necrons keep WBB (which I will talk about below), then, INSTEAD of just giving them WBB, give Pariahs FNP (fluff wise, the mechanical parts keeping the living parts alive) Just about everything else is decent, but they need a price drop

Wraiths: Pretty good, but they NEED their claws to be power weapons. POSSIBLY a cheaper price, but I think that's good.

Scarabs: Pretty much fine...not sure about these guys...

Destroyers: Also pretty good, but could use a price drop, and MAYBE some different weapon options (to sorta customize the squad at least a bit)

Heavy Destroyers: Also COULD use a slight price drop. Also needs something to make Heavy Gauss Cannons not just lascannons (something like 2D6 penetration always, or a plus on the damage table, or a some other special abilty for the cannon)

Tomb Spiders: Again, MAYBE price drop, other than that they are decent, maybe some weapon options, but they seem to fit their role. Something to make more than one scarab would be cool, but probably OP.

Monolith: I don't really think it needs Changes. Price: The only vehicle Necrons have, so it should be "cheap" Killability: It should keep "living metal" just to make it the strongest vehicle that either takes dedicated anti tank, or just avoidance altogether.

C'tan: Could use maybe a price drop, or something to help against phase out (count as like 10 Necrons or, while alive, disable phase out due to their being a living god in the battle), and/or some slight stat mods.


WBB: Some people think this should be changed to FNP. I think it should stay the same, to make Necrons unique, and to give them the cool "get back up after they're dead" thing.

Phase Out: Not TOO bad as is (especially if WBB stays), but I think that phase out should be reduced to like 20 or 15%.

Necrons: They could use something to survive better, Stubborn is a pretty good idea, however costs might have to change (because Stubborn is pretty good), but so Necrons can still get killed in CC.


I am not too sure about any of these things, and obviously I wouldn't want ALL of these, but rather some from the list. I think that increasing stats AND reducing price is OP of course, so some of these would have to be OR situations for most of it.

The reason WBB should be changed to FNP is for ease of rules. WBB is functionally the same but needs a lot of additional text to describe when it does and doesnt work. This can cause lots of confusion in games, even among necron players. Instead in the army special rules should be something like:

We'll Be Back: [fluff]. All necrons have Feel No Pain as described in the 40k rule book

Everyone that has the rules knows what FNP is and how it works, so there isnt any confusion. The flavour still remains intact but the rules change to make the game play much more smoothly.

Now on to everything else:

Lord: There should be levels of lords with access to differnt equippment or abilities, maybe allowing slightly changed force org charts. Need a power weapon as standard in anycase.

Pariahs: Need to become necrons (and thus have access to FNP) and gain an extra attack but cost more points (30-45, with 2 attacks and FNP they become slightly more powerful than terminators)

Immortals: Need to be stubbon and relentless for the same cost

Flayed ones: These need to become troops choices and get rending and stubbon for a slight increase in cost (20-24pts each). Maybe fleet. Maybe a slight increase in WS.

Warriors: Need to gain stubbon and relentless for slightly more (20pts with changes to gauss, see below) Maybe gain the ability to be led by an immortal (although I personally cant really see any justification for this, some people like unit champions too much)

Wraiths need to gain one extra wound and have a very slight increase in cost (42-45pts)

Destroyers: Need to gain stubbon. The have relentless due to being jetbikes anyway. (Small increase in points due to changes in gauss)

Scarabs: Need to become troops, but lose the ability to score. Points stay the same.

Tomb spider: Need an extra wound and an increase to WS but a points increase to 55pts

Heavy Destroyer: Heavy Gauss Cannon needs to be heavy 2 but they should cos the same.

Monolith: Power matrix needs to be changed in wording to cover FNP and should cost the same as a landraider.

Special rules: Lose phase out, it never really made much sense anyway. Gauss should be changed to rending.

Comments: Although many of the choices available have gone up in points, they have also ganed special rules that cover their major weakneses. Rending guns make their shooting very powerful, capable to threatening most vehicles, even with simple gauss blasters. These changes make them very good against mech and MEQ armies, but mean they will have some difficulty gainst horde armies. Every army needs a weakness and this should be the necrons. They gain reasonable counter charge in pariahs and flayed ones, but are still generally not good in combat. These rules make necrons much more blanced than they are currently.

Regwon wrote:The reason WBB should be changed to FNP is for ease of rules. WBB is functionally the same but needs a lot of additional text to describe when it does and doesnt work. This can cause lots of confusion in games, even among necron players. Instead in the army special rules should be something like:

We'll Be Back: [fluff]. All necrons have Feel No Pain as described in the 40k rule book

Everyone that has the rules knows what FNP is and how it works, so there isnt any confusion. The flavour still remains intact but the rules change to make the game play much more smoothly.

Yes, but it's boring. There's nothing that can't be fixed with good wording. If someone would kindly post the full wording for WBB, I'd like to mess around with it.

@Eight Ball- Check out my first post, it entails exactly wat you describe. : )

Necrons should be getting a lot of 'robotic' wargear, like scanners and refractors and whatnot. Scanners give -1 to saves, refractors subtract Str from incoming weapons.

Actually. Actually. This is genius, I am so stupidly awesome it's not even funny. Why not give all of them FNP and Bionics? Or something like Commissar Yarrick's ability?

The reason WBB should be changed to FNP is for ease of rules. WBB is functionally the same but needs a lot of additional text to describe when it does and doesnt work. This can cause lots of confusion in games, even among necron players. Instead in the army special rules should be something like:

We'll Be Back: [fluff]. All necrons have Feel No Pain as described in the 40k rule book

Everyone that has the rules knows what FNP is and how it works, so there isnt any confusion. The flavour still remains intact but the rules change to make the game play much more smoothly.

Okay, WBB is not confusing. I don't know where people are getting this from. Also, if they get FNP, then you need some use for the Res Orb, Tomb Spider, Monolith...

Lord: There should be levels of lords with access to differnt equippment or abilities, maybe allowing slightly changed force org charts. Need a power weapon as standard in anycase.

Okay, the only thing there should be are different lords to let different things become troops. Like one CC-Lord that allows Flayed Ones to become troops, or destroyer lord making destroyers troops, ect.

Pariahs: Need to become necrons (and thus have access to FNP) and gain an extra attack but cost more points (30-45, with 2 attacks and FNP they become slightly more powerful than terminators)

I don't think they should be Necrons (if WBB stays) due to the fluff, but they SHOULD get FNP, maybe an extra attack, but they already cost 36 points....

Immortals: Need to be stubbon and relentless for the same cost

Stubborn, sure. Why do they need relentless? They have an ASSAULT 2 weapon.

Flayed ones: These need to become troops choices and get rending and stubbon for a slight increase in cost (20-24pts each). Maybe fleet. Maybe a slight increase in WS.

I think they need changes, but they should not get a price increase, they're already 18 points, much higher and you might as well get wraiths.

Warriors: Need to gain stubbon and relentless for slightly more (20pts with changes to gauss, see below) Maybe gain the ability to be led by an immortal (although I personally cant really see any justification for this, some people like unit champions too much)

Yeah, don't know why you would want an Immortal leader though...MAYBE something like a wraith, then a special rule to use his Initiative in sweeping advance.

Wraiths need to gain one extra wound and have a very slight increase in cost (42-45pts)

Yes

Destroyers: Need to gain stubbon. The have relentless due to being jetbikes anyway. (Small increase in points due to changes in gauss)

If anything they need to be LESS points, 50 pts each is a bit steep considering how easily killable they are.

Scarabs: Need to become troops, but lose the ability to score. Points stay the same.

Yeah whatever, as long as they can't score

Tomb spider: Need an extra wound and an increase to WS but a points increase to 55pts

Sure, but they already ARE 55pts, which I think they can stay at with these changes.

Heavy Destroyer: Heavy Gauss Cannon needs to be heavy 2 but they should cos the same.

YES

Monolith: Power matrix needs to be changed in wording to cover FNP and should cost the same as a landraider.

Again, I think WBB should stay, and Also that it should keep the same cost, because it's the ONLY vehicle Necrons have.

Special rules: Lose phase out, it never really made much sense anyway.

This COULD be taken out, however, if you have WBB OR FNP on an entire army, there should be some way to kill the army.

Gauss should be changed to rending.

NO. Firstly, the ability of Necrons to glance any vehicle to death is something totally unique they should keep. ALSO, basic necron warriors should not be able to get past armor saves of terminators, that would get WAY too OP, even with a price increase (which I don't think we need EVEN HIGHER prices)

they will have some difficulty gainst horde armies. Every army needs a weakness and this should be the necrons.

So the ONLY weakness should be against specific armies....wow...

These rules make necrons much more blanced than they are currently.

Not really. These rules you imply make the Necrons way stronger (particularly FNP with no Phase Out) and will mean that Necrons are pretty much Stubborn, Relentless, FNP, RENDING marines for TWO POINTS more than before.

AllWillFall2Me wrote:

SirRouga wrote:
The dreaded Gauss Devourer is an hereunto unseen weapon of the Necron forces. The device seems to utilize the Necron Gauss technology to power a "wave" effect, with everything in the weapon's path being shredded to component atoms.

Devourer: Template Str:4 AP:5 Assault 1, Gauss.

If everything is shredded to component atoms, do you think AP 4 might be a bit better?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Uriels_Flame wrote:AND FOR GODS SAKE FIND A FREAKING POWER WEAPON ON A WARRIOR SQUAD!

Gauss whip, perhaps? And a champion t hold it. Catacombed ....

I think WBB will be replaced by FNP. It makes perfect sense. WBB now is like the old Brettonian Arrowhead formation. It certainly looks pretty, but doesn't fit the rules and/or playing methods. That's why they changed it. The brettonians effectively have the same rules (i.e. outside models still got to use lances), but it cleaned up how they are played.

As many have said, that's quite a possibility, however I still think they should keep WBB, even if it's like "WBB: All Necrons have FNP, with the following addons (for stuff like res orbs, tomb spiders, multi-wound models, ect ect)" although I really like the system as it is now...

The problem with the current system is that it having what is basicly a Delayed FNP creates both rule complications, as well as confusion for non-necron players. There's no reason why Resorbs etc couldn't be modified to 'allows re-rolls of FNP rolls'.

Yeah, so if WBB's getting replaced by FNP, just have the Codex say: "We'll Be Back: Any models with the Necron Special Rule gain the FNP USR. Ressurection Orbs allow models to always roll FNP, tomb spiders do this and that, ect"

Wraiths: Power weapons, deep strike

This seems exessive to me. Maybe rending weapons.

Okay, I don't think they should deep strike (as they can already turboboost), however Wraiths need either:
-2+ Invulnerable
-2 Wounds
-Power Weapons
To become useful, even if they do get a slight point increase.

Destroyers: One unit with weapon options.

Again, you come to the usual uniformity of the army. Still they could be one entry with options to change the whole units weapons for a given price/model.

Yeah, that's what I thought too, make it so the entire squad could swap weapons (Not sure for what though), but keep the entire squad the same.

Monolith: Change living metal to a 4+ obscurement save. Defensive grenades (that way if somebody attacks, the protective energies of the Monolith will deter attackers).

I have to say, as I have said many times before: The Monolith SHOULD be the toughest Non-Apoc Tank in the game. Removing living metal means that it is suddenly only as strong as a LR in cover, the only way this would be better if it was say a 2+ or 3+ save (2+ is a bit extreme though) Although I think Living Metal should stay as-is.

I like living metal, if only because it's the only hard tank with an answer to the suddenly common melta-spam. If you do want to change it however, could have it force a -1 modifier on the damage table rolls.

Yeah, but realistically, what we need is either:
-A 4+ Cover Save always PLUS a -1 Modifier
-Living Metal
Again, I love Living Metal a LOT more, just because it makes the Monolith so strong, and is a real middle-finger to meltas (which is always nice)

Necron Lord: 2 choices, Necron Master (standard issue lord with current options) and Necron Terror Lord (beefed up stats with built-in res orb and has access to Gauss Powers). Gauss powers are essentially Psychic powers. Ignores Perils of the Warp and can select/use multiple powers. Everything from a ground shaking Gauss blast centered on the NTL to Reshape metal (re-roll failed FNPs).

Cool powers, but I don't see why we need two types of lords, there could just be like a couple upgrades, and each of those upgrades gives the Lord a couple of those powers...that way, you could deck out a lord, give him all those powers, which would be expensive, or JUST buy him one or two powers, for a cheaper, but still unique, lord. Also, I think the 100pt Limit on wargear should be removed...like come on, if we want a 300pt lord, LET US HAVE ONE!

The real use of multiple types of lord would be to change the units avaliable/FOC. Simmilar to Mekboys or Warbosses.

Yeah, the only real reason I saw the need for more than one Lord type is to allow other stuff to act as troops (Like Destroyers or Flayed Ones.....or Immortals, that would be nice)

I think it was rumored at some point, but add a Walker. Essentially a giant Tomb spyder or a giant Wraith. Maybe even a wraithlord like necron.

Interesting, might be hard to fit the fluff though, and I'm not sure how useful it'd be...

It could be, but if were adding a vehicle, I'd rather have a mini-monolith.

Mini-Monoliths would be epic! Not sure where they'd sit in the FOC chart though...

Also, in regards to the sweeping advance complaints, I present this option as part of the Necron special rules. "Necron are masters of teleportation and phase technology relying on it when they would otherwise be destoryed. If a Necron unit would be destroyed by a sweeping advance, resolve hits as per the 'no retreat rule' then remove it from the table and place it in reserves instead. The unit comes on as normal from there. (via reserves roll then monolith, deepstirke or walk on etc)"

That would be cool actually...

Another thought I had was that all Necrons should have something like 'Cold Blooded' in the Lizardmen army. 3d6 for Leadership and Morale, you may discard the highest dice.

I suggested the option for the Deep Strike in the army because in the few times I've read any fluff on Necrons it seems that they either appear out of nowhere or they come out of the walls, jungle, or whatever.

I agree with you guy's thoughts on keeping the Monolith the same and uniformity in squads.

My idea for the Pariahs and their area attack was that they focus and project their Psychic Abomination attack. Maybe something like the PBS attack.

A mini-monolith could act as conduits of Gauss power (maybe called it an obelisk or something). They could be purchased as dedicated transports (though not really a true transport). They could work with the monolith in a way. Something I thought of was similar to the Monolith matrix thing in Apoc. If you have a Obelisk within a certain range of the Monolith you can discharge Gauss power between the different nodes. Draw a line between each Obelisk and the Monolith. Any enemy units between Obelisk A and Obelisk B suffer 1d6 Gauss Weapon hits (vehicles are hit on side armor), any enemy units between Obelisk B and the Monolith suffer 2d6 Gauss Weapon hits. This would make enemy units hesitant to park between the Obelisks and/or the Monolith.

I wanted to present the idea of multiple HQ choices because one unit choice is never enough for the FOC. I know Necrons lover their uniformity, but from a force building aspect you need some choices. Maybe something like a Master of the Forge (Living-metal forge)? Powerful ranged attacks and the ability to fortify and/or give re-rolls to the Necrons.

C'Tan need to go bye, bye. I don't think they're broken or anything, they just don't seem to fit the scale of the game.

The entire army is already LD10, and moral doesn't do that much in 40k outside of losing CC. And you don't exactly want your necron warriors hanging around in close combat any longer then they have to.

Your right, Deap stirke does fit the fluff, for that mater so does infultrate (they appear all around you!). Infact, setting up as infultraters might work better. In many ways though, it doesn't help the Necron to much, as a mostly shooting army that wants to avoid Close Combat.

If anything is done with the monolith, I think it should become more powerful (and expensive). There should be genuite fear when a monolith hits the board. Particularly if the Phase Out rule is maintianed, the that should be the primary way of removing a monolith.

The Obolisk (stealing your name for it), could be a lighter version of the Monolith Like 13/13/13 or 12/12/12 and Living Metal, and only able to do the portal thing if there is a monolith on the board. They could be heavy support as well, perhaps with 1-3 per choice if they don't seem to be avaliable enough.

Name wise, we could use the Bronze/Sliver/Gold lords as described in the Apoc book. Bronzes may have more spiders and such to repersent them maintaining the tomb, Slivers are 'normal' and Golds have Uber' units more avaliable being the primary harvesters.

I agree about the C'tan. They're gods. They should be 2500pts in apoc or something.

I heard down at my FLGS that there might be different types of Lord, like a Wraith-lord (ignore the Eldar reference) which is a lord with a Waith body. That sounds pretty cool, doesn't it?

indeed it does

Personally I do not think they are broken. The first Ard boyz winner was a necron player.

smart_alex: You don't feel WHAT are broken?

Assuming you mean the Necrons themselves, the point is this, when was "the first Ard Boyz"? Was it 5th edition? If not, there's the problem. In 5th edition, Necrons have been screwed over, primarily (but not only) due to the change in the damage charts (can't kill in one glance anymore), and especially in mechanized lists, this really removes one of the Necrons' main advantages....

That said, I still think they are a great race (my main and only) and I don't think they are super under powered....but their are obviously reasons why not many people play them, and why they apparently don't fare well in competitive play...

WBB isn't complicated. Who are all these folks that are getting confused by it?

As for hand to hand, give'em fearless and you can leave I2 as it fits them. That way I'm not completely boned in HtH and it keeps them slow. Seems like a good fit to me. I could also see Stubborn as well.

Gauss rule take away the -2. Maybe make it -1 so they can still blast vehicles. The army to my mind has never been about high AP shots. It has always been about lots of shots.

Wraiths I'd like to see have rending weapons. When I read the fluff that's what they made it sound like. I have to say I was disappointed.

My bet is if we see a new vehicle for them it'll be the giant scarab that was in the latest Soul Drinker novel.

It's not that WBB is complicated as in 'I don't get it', its complicated in terms of rules design because it falls outside the normal scope of the game. Having models that are "sorta-there" and "sorta-part of this unit" leads to a number of rule interaction questions that could be avoided by creating a more direct rule.

I don't agree with Fearless, mostly because I don't think we need another fearless army. I'd also be more useful to them to be able to successfuly remove themselves from combat then be suck in for an entire game.

I was never happy that Gauss rifles could cause insta-death to vehicles. I personaly like the idea that Gauss Rifles have to rip off all the weaponry and imobalize a vehicle before it finaly falls apart. I think the better way to address this is to find a way to produce more shots, as well as some better heavy shots from vehicles like the Monolith.

Rending for the Wraiths might be a nice compermise between normal and PW attacks.

It's possable they'll get a walker, but the rumor mill has been leaning to a mini-monolith. But the GW designers don't seem to read many of the BL books. (nor do the book writers nessisaraly seem to read much of the GW fluff sometimes)

How about three tiers of monoliths.
1. Monolith-basically the same, add 10 points but add ignores cover to the Particle whip and Gauss Flux arc.
2. Obelisk-Armor 12-13 all around, living metal, smaller version of the particle whip and Gauss Flux arc.
3. Idol-11 all around, living metal, and a Gauss Flux arc attack against one unit. May be purchased as a 1-3 option (Heavy support).

When you have multiple monoliths choices on the table you can use a chain lightning-like attack between them (if they haven't moved). Starting with the monolith measure from center to center, any enemy units under this line take a number of hits. Continues onto the next monolith, but it decreases in strength.

Maybe if a Necron unit is between the two points you could choose to not make an attack and instead my choose to "charge up" the necron unit. The power of Gauss passes over the unit quickening their reflexes. They are able to move faster as the arcane energies envelop their metal bodies. For the rest of the turn they may either gain one initiative, gain fleet, or gain one to their cover save. Maybe make it a roll on a chart.

About Gauss:
Not too sure about this: being able to wreck a vehicle in one shot would be nice, but I think the current system is a bit more balanced (can still wreck vehicles, but takes longer)

Rending for Wraiths: YES
Mini-Monolith: Not too sure about this, it would have to be useful enough to use, but not too useful/op to not use the monolith at all (and also fit the fluff: Could be something like "A monlith that is in the process of creation, but not complete, but still able to fight when necessary")...also not sure about the monlith-lightning thing, but as long as it's balanced, it would be cool.

Mars.Techpriest wrote:It's not that WBB is complicated as in 'I don't get it', its complicated in terms of rules design because it falls outside the normal scope of the game. Having models that are "sorta-there" and "sorta-part of this unit" leads to a number of rule interaction questions that could be avoided by creating a more direct rule.

I'll agree that it is out of the normal flow of a game for non-Necron players. I've played them for a LONG time and I suppose I'm just used to it. Also, while I don't have my codex wtih me, I remember it being pretty clear on when/if those models count as part of the squad. I'd still hate to lose that rule though, if only because its a part of the army to me.

Mars.Techpriest wrote:I don't agree with Fearless, mostly because I don't think we need another fearless army. I'd also be more useful to them to be able to successfuly remove themselves from combat then be suck in for an entire game.

Granted Fearless can be a bit much, but I don't know of another way to keep them from getting completely boned by almost anything in hand to hand. I thought about hit and run for a minute but that REALLY doesn't fit with an army like the necrons. As stated in my earlier post, how do you feel about them being Stubborn?

Mars.Techpriest wrote:I was never happy that Gauss rifles could cause insta-death to vehicles. I personaly like the idea that Gauss Rifles have to rip off all the weaponry and imobalize a vehicle before it finaly falls apart. I think the better way to address this is to find a way to produce more shots, as well as some better heavy shots from vehicles like the Monolith.

Then give me something other than a 235 pt tank that honestly has its hands full already being the only vehicle in my army and a plucky las cannon wielding jetbike. However, I'm particularly biased against the heavy destroyers.

Mars.Techpriest wrote:It's possable they'll get a walker, but the rumor mill has been leaning to a mini-monolith. But the GW designers don't seem to read many of the BL books. (nor do the book writers nessisaraly seem to read much of the GW fluff sometimes)

A buddy of mine converted up a Necron dreadnaught thing that looked AWSOME. I'd much rather have then the 10 billion yr old equivalent of Scooty Puff Jr.

My thinking of a walker (besides the good 'ol rumor from a while ago) is based on Terminator Salvation. Something roughly humanoid, but still distinctly neconish. Maybe along the lines of a soulgrinder? In the center of the body could be giant crystal like the one on top of the monolith. I would like to see, but I think that it is unlikely to happen.

yeah, that doesn't seem to fit the fluff that well....and that's the main problem, WHY would some of these ideas be added?

Well, the necrons are a mysterious bunch. Maybe if the Weekly World News still existed in the future we would know a thing or two more.

When I first saw FW's latest offering in the Khorne walker I thought it was Necron. It looks like a giant scarab to me. If we had to do a walker I think it'd fit perfectly. Otherwise it would likely have to be a skimmer model as they don't seem to bother with treads anymore.

Sarge wrote:When I first saw FW's latest offering in the Khorne walker I thought it was Necron. It looks like a giant scarab to me. If we had to do a walker I think it'd fit perfectly. Otherwise it would likely have to be a skimmer model as they don't seem to bother with treads anymore.

Maybe it will be a necron eventually...since necrons started life as "Chaos Androids" many moons ago.

Jack

@ 8 ball. Ah yes that is true. Forgot about that. Side note. I wrote a script recently. 8ball is one of the character's names.

smart_alex: Sweet.

But yeah, the real thing is the fluff, and a design to fit it/fit the game...that said, the best options I could see would be:
-Mini-Monolith (but still not sure why)
-Some sort of Giantized Wraith/Destroyer (but again why)

and, pretty good fluff-wise (I have thought some of this idea), would be something like:

Something like a "Constructor Scarab"
-A huge beast that originally helped construct tomb worlds, and is part of the main force behind repairing phased-out necrons
-Obviously a walker profile
-Give it some ability to create it's own scarabs, but could not be targetted separately, or be killed, but would just contribute more S3 attacks in the Constructor's Close Combat (It would get it's own attacks PLUS any Scarabs it has created since game start)
-Make it be able to create like 2/3 scarabs per turn max, but like a tomb spider's artificier, on a 1 nothing happens, but no self-wounding)
-Give it some sort of shooting weapon? (Perhaps a blast weapon similar to a weakened particle whip, or a super Particle Projector (similar to shooting say a twin-linked Heavy Gauss Cannon, or similar?)
-Some enhancement to WBB, make units within 6 or 12 inches get up on a 3+ or something?

Just thought about the above idea, but I think it would fit the fluff, a Giant Tomb Spider with it's scarabs, building tomb worlds...just a thought...but yeah, as I have said, fitting the fluff is such a necessity, especially with a race like the Necrons, creating stuff that makes no sense just won't work well...

That walker thing sounds SWEEET.

And i definately think that destroyers should have BILLION weapon choices, and could replace heavy destroyers, giving us space for MORE MONOLITHS!!! Unless your defending in Planetstrike...

Heck why not give the option to make CC destroyers?

IMHO Necrons already have close combat potential. It's just all a little broken right now.

Let's see;

Pariahas. Supposed to be an uber CC unit.

Flayed Ones. Supposed to be a sort of 'standard' CC unit

Wraiths. A 'specialty' CC unit

Tomb Spyders and C'tan. MC CC units

GW just needs to FIX these units so they actually work with the army.

Good point. Now that you look at the list they "idealy" have more CC focused units (as in that's their main thing) than many other armies.

Yeah, Necrons are definatly and 'in your face' style list in terms of intended style. They were meant to be hard as nails, unrelenting and very capable at medium-close distances.


A few tweaks to (their)combat resolution, a couple of 'easter eggs' for the broken/useless units, and you have a force that would be capable, albiet a touch predictible in a match.

What about this as a replacement for the Guass Rule.

All Guass weapons count as Poison (4+), and when fired against a vehicle, cause an additional glancing hit if the Armor Penetration roll is 4+

This should both give warriors a way to deal with MC and generate enough glancing hits to destroy a vehicle over the course of a couple turns, while still preventing a golden BB. At least against Vehicles, heavier Guass weapons would continue to gain an advantage over their non-gauss counterparts.

Techpriest: If they gave the lowly gauss rifle poison,I'd probably..well I dunno what I'd do, but I'd probably have to change cloths. That's potentially 40 shots hitting on 3s, wounding ANYTHING on 4s. Am I understanding you correctly?

Flayed ones fix is fairly simple. Let'em assault directly after deepstriking. Give'em fleet if your feeling generous. Or, more "fluffy" per se is to let'em deepstrike into an enemy unit as the description is infiltrating, ambushing.

CC destroyers would be exceptionaly interesting to me. However, what do you equip them with? What's their advantage over Wraiths?

yeah, all gauss weapons as poison would be wayyy too OP, unless we're misunderstanding you Mars Techpriest...

Also, epic thoughts on the flayed ones, but expanding on it a bit more: If they deepstrike, and scatter (or even direct hit) an enemy unit (infantry or tanks) they do not role deep strike mishap, but rather are placed into Base Contact, with pile in moves made in the CC phase (neither counts as charging)

Also, about the CC destroyers: Their called Wraiths. We shouldn't add even MORE CC to this army, because as SsevenN has already pointed out, we have a lot (Pariahs, Flayed Ones, Wraiths, Scarabs, Tomb Spiders, C'tan; Half of the army list), so we should just focus on making each of those unique and usable in regular games.

Flux Whip Nerf : Done.

Every time I have played against Necrons I have lost. A decent list is pretty much all you need with them to be competitive, and some basic tactics to be affective.

Skinnattittar:WHY would you want to nerf the only real decent actual-tank-killing weapon Necrons have? (Sure their is the heavy gauss cannon, but meh)

Also, I am actually kinda curious what kinds of lists this Necron player you can't beat uses...

If a tourny I played last week is any indication, its the Monolith. Everybody shoots at it, it laughs at you, and theoretically the rest of the army goes on its merry way. In my case, all the way to a draw, but my Monoliths didn't die.

I think that necrons should have the ability to ignore the AP on weapons and the effects of power weapons. If the are suppose to be able to ignore grievous wounds and re-knit, then how about just counting them as having weapons be not as effective against them? It makes them not be so much like PM's and they are VERY tough to take down. Toughness 5 all around might be OK but is probably NOT necessary. Also, necrons should be the Relentless USR or their guns should be assault 1-2. This makes up for their lack of movement by extending their reach.

Necrons need mobility? So lets give it to them!

Phaser

Points: 150 *whatever*
AV 12 | 12 | 11

Living Metal
Deep Strike

Power Matrix: *except change the first option to allow the Phaser to use two TL Gauss Blasters*

This allows necrons a cheap x-port unit. It won't carry them, but it allows necrons to have "mini monoliths" to run around and teleport them places. It's not that strong of a shooter but it should live. It's main purpose is that fact that it's cheaper AND it can move up to 12" a turn.

Idk how they are going to fix pariahs or anything else. Maybe making flayed ones troops would fix them and allow you some assault troops.

EzeKK wrote:I think that necrons should have the ability to ignore the AP on weapons and the effects of power weapons. If the are suppose to be able to ignore grievous wounds and re-knit, then how about just counting them as having weapons be not as effective against them?

Something must have the ability to kill necrons well.

If power weapons and and plasma is rendered a waste of points, lasguns and choppas become the way to kill them. That becomes silly, though, in the same way that Storm Shield terminators are silly. Small arms fire should not be the bane of the most resilient and heavily armored troops.

I know how GW plans to fix them.

1) They've been eaten by Tyranids, just like a certain race of space Dwarves...
2) Replace with Undead Space Marines.
3) Profit.

EzeKK wrote:I think that necrons should have the ability to ignore the AP on weapons and the effects of power weapons. If the are suppose to be able to ignore grievous wounds and re-knit, then how about just counting them as having weapons be not as effective against them? It makes them not be so much like PM's and they are VERY tough to take down. Toughness 5 all around might be OK but is probably NOT necessary. Also, necrons should be the Relentless USR or their guns should be assault 1-2. This makes up for their lack of movement by extending their reach.

Necrons need mobility? So lets give it to them!

Phaser

Points: 150 *whatever*
AV 12 | 12 | 11

Living Metal
Deep Strike

Power Matrix: *except change the first option to allow the Phaser to use two TL Gauss Blasters*

This allows necrons a cheap x-port unit. It won't carry them, but it allows necrons to have "mini monoliths" to run around and teleport them places. It's not that strong of a shooter but it should live. It's main purpose is that fact that it's cheaper AND it can move up to 12" a turn.

Idk how they are going to fix pariahs or anything else. Maybe making flayed ones troops would fix them and allow you some assault troops.

I think ignoring AP and PW wounds is a bit much, because as has been said lots of small arms fire will be the only thing to take them down.
Also, relentless, as I have said before, yes it would be nice: Having long range shots at 24", or lots of shots within 12" (if you know you're screwed)

Also, about the Vehicle thing, I had sort of had another idea (which may have been said a long time ago already, but whatever):
-Let's take your tank, make it AV12 all around (why would a necron vehicle have a weaker rear facing?)
-Power Matrix: The (tank name, not sure of a decent name) can teleport units towards itself (as per the Monolith power matrix rules). ALSO, instead of doing this, a unit of Necrons can embark into the vehicle, and instantly deep strike anywhere on the table....this gives you the option of getting necrons out of CC and near the tank, OR get a unit away from the tank, but not both per turn.
-Give it say a Gauss Cannon or two (and give them 360º LOS; why wouldn't necrons have weapons that can always get a target?)

Just another idea

Skinnattittar wrote:Flux Whip Nerf : Done.

Every time I have played against Necrons I have lost. A decent list is pretty much all you need with them to be competitive, and some basic tactics to be affective.

Good to see that you understand the Necron codex and the many issues surrounding most of the units, especially under 5th ed. /sarcasm

Firstly what list does this guy run and secondly how does changing the stats on one (1!!!) weapon make the Necron army list balanced? The Particle whip isn't even that ridiculous, essentially its a short ranged battle cannon with +1 strength. Oh, and if you have never won a game against Necrons that doesn't tell me that Necrons are over powered, it tells me you don't know how to play against them.

Well, I am going to undertake reading this whole thread but I have to say, Terminator Salvation rocks when thinking about Necrons! That's how they should feel

In reality, there's little that the Gauss rifle doesn't wound on a 4+ already. Warbosses, Space Marine Bikers, Obiderators, Wraithguard/lords, Monsterus Creatres. With the possable exception fo the Warboss, these all have good armor saves that would midigate the damage.

I otherwise find it funny that a volly of guass rifles can take down a landraider, then have a harder time on a space marine assault bike.

Mars.Techpriest wrote:I otherwise find it funny that a volly of guass rifles can take down a landraider, then have a harder time on a space marine assault bike.

Yeah, but that's because Gauss has a rule (SORT OF similar to rending) against vehicles, but if you had that against everyone non-vehicle, it would probably be a bit op

@Eight Ball: They do have it against non-vehicles. Any roll of 6 to wound/penetrate gives a wound/glancing hit.

@Tech Priest: The standard gun the necrons use doesn't wound all that stuff on 4s. It's a bolter with special rules. I do agree that generally the armor save of the unit in question shrugs off the wounds generally.

Interesting thing; Living Metal. Why not make it so that all weapons get -1 Str against it, and any additional penetration dice are reduced to d3? And Armor can only be reduced by 1. So a melta firing would be Str 7 with d6+d3 armor penetration. So it would actually become a bit easier, but also a bit harder to kill. And this makes Living Metal unique.

Necron Soul Hunter

BS: 4 AV: F:11 S:11: R:11
Fast Skimmer

Armament: Two Heavy Gauss Flayers (Str 6 Ap 4, Heavy 2, Gauss)
Other Equipment: Targeting Scanner (Models must reroll successful cover saves), Searchlight, 1 Gauss Missile (Str 8 Ap 3, Heavy 1,Gauss one shot only, unlimited range)

Special Rules:
Living Metal (Weapons firing at this model get -1 Str. Additional armor penetration dice are reduced to a d3, and this model's armor can only be reduced by 1.)
Scout


Something faster for the Necrons. No prize awarded for guessing where this came from.

Vladsimpaler wrote:Interesting thing; Living Metal. Why not make it so that all weapons get -1 Str against it, and any additional penetration dice are reduced to d3? And Armor can only be reduced by 1. So a melta firing would be Str 7 with d6+d3 armor penetration. So it would actually become a bit easier, but also a bit harder to kill. And this makes Living Metal unique.

If you're gonna do all that, why not just keep it as is?

Vladsimpaler wrote:Necron Soul Hunter

BS: 4 AV: F:11 S:11: R:11
Fast Skimmer

Armament: Two Heavy Gauss Flayers (Str 6 Ap 4, Heavy 2, Gauss)
Other Equipment: Targeting Scanner (Models must reroll successful cover saves), Searchlight, 1 Gauss Missile (Str 8 Ap 3, Heavy 1,Gauss one shot only, unlimited range)

Special Rules:
Living Metal (Weapons firing at this model get -1 Str. Additional armor penetration dice are reduced to a d3, and this model's armor can only be reduced by 1.)
Scout


Something faster for the Necrons. No prize awarded for guessing where this came from.

The thing is though, Necrons don't NEED anything this fast (especially with destroyers: 12" move + 36" shots), and this doesn't really fit the fluff that well (Why would the necrons have a weak fast skimmer with ONE missile on it?)

EDIT:Also, the stats of your "Heavy Gauss Flayers" S6 AP4 Heavy2, is already very similar to the Gauss Cannon: S6 AP4 Heavy3, except the gauss cannon is better

Sarge wrote:@Tech Priest: The standard gun the necrons use doesn't wound all that stuff on 4s. It's a bolter with special rules. I do agree that generally the armor save of the unit in question shrugs off the wounds generally.

I know, I was quoting the stuff it doesn't wound on a 4+ or better. Bolters are able to wound the same level of things. The problem with Gauss's 'always wound on a 6' rule is that it's useless, at least outside of Apoc. In order for a Gauss Rifle not to wound something on a 6, it would need to have a Toughnes of 9 or 10. Which only Super-deamons and Gargantuan creatres have.

As for the Living Metal rule, I agree with Eight Ball, the combination system given is even more complicated then the current rule, and changes it from invulnerable to Melta (and other multi-dies) to almost only volnerable to Melta or other multi-die attacks. (Only Str 10 could pen without an additional die) Honestly, with the new damage table, The Monolith is nearly impossable to crack open. Unless its abilities jump it to 500pts, it doesn't really need additional defences.

Personaly, I think any other (non walker) vehicle would detract from the Monolith/Obolisk etc. Same reason why there's no Walkers in the Tau Codex.

Mars.Techpriest wrote:

Sarge wrote:@Tech Priest: The standard gun the necrons use doesn't wound all that stuff on 4s. It's a bolter with special rules. I do agree that generally the armor save of the unit in question shrugs off the wounds generally.

I know, I was quoting the stuff it doesn't wound on a 4+ or better. Bolters are able to wound the same level of things. The problem with Gauss's 'always wound on a 6' rule is that it's useless, at least outside of Apoc. In order for a Gauss Rifle not to wound something on a 6, it would need to have a Toughnes of 9 or 10. Which only Super-deamons and Gargantuan creatres have.

As for the Living Metal rule, I agree with Eight Ball, the combination system given is even more complicated then the current rule, and changes it from invulnerable to Melta (and other multi-dies) to almost only volnerable to Melta or other multi-die attacks. (Only Str 10 could pen without an additional die) Honestly, with the new damage table, The Monolith is nearly impossable to crack open. Unless its abilities jump it to 500pts, it doesn't really need additional defences.

Personaly, I think any other (non walker) vehicle would detract from the Monolith/Obolisk etc. Same reason why there's no Walkers in the Tau Codex.

I agree with all of this.

However, in regards to gauss guns: Sure, it doesn't make sense that they can glance tanks but not cut through infantry armor, but as has been said that would be too OP army-wide. However, there could be something like "On a roll of a 6 to wound, the target receives a -1 roll to his Armor Save (so that a marine would fail his save on a 3, termie on a 2, etc)"

Save modifiers have been dead since 2nd Ed. Don't get your hopes up.

Word, maybe for vehicles it should be changed so that if more than one 6 is rolled then it causes a glancing hit. This way it represents that Gauss blasts are combining to strip away chunks of the vehicle instead of one lucky shot blowing out a chunk of the engine, tanks treads, or whatever.

Collective armor penetration? Like rather then roll seperate penetrations, you can replace the d6 with the number of additional hits? (4+d6 becomes 4+number of hits. 11 hits to penetrate a land raider) That could be interesting.

Untill their most recent codexes, both Orks and Chaos had max 4+ save weapons. But I don't think those will return soon.

Hate to say it, but Rending almost seems like the most logical answer. Just basic Str 4, AP 5 24", Rapid Fire, Rending.

If they are going to make it Rending then I would say that it needs downgraded to Strength 3. Rending could be nasty, but at S3 it takes the pain off a little.

yes, but again, rending won't help glance anything reliably (you still gotta roll d3 penetration, adding even more dice rolls) especially AV14 which they won't be able to glance at all. However, anything AV12 or less could get a penetrating hit, and gauss cannons could take down land raiders....

I see your respective points, and agree.

At risk of semi-adding a new rule, how about just changing Gauss to on a 6 Ignore armor save/Auto-glance vehicles?

As a note, reducing the guns Str. doesn't make rending any less nasty, as you'd have the same number of dice to roll a 6 on. In a 10 Necron squad at close range, you'd get about 6 rending hits, which just about makes up for not being able to take plasma guns or other such special weapons. And keeps the 'damn gauss rifle who's lucky shot can kill anything'

Again Mars, and not to sound like a dick, but the real problem I see with this is:

At risk of semi-adding a new rule, how about just changing Gauss to on a 6 Ignore armor save/Auto-glance vehicles?

is that, like rending, having this on basic warriors means that (yes on lucky dice rolls) the weapons can get past say terminator armor...not good....the only thing I had thought about this was to do something to modify say their save (but that wasn't taken well) or to add something even weirder (ex:Gun is AP5, anything with better than 5+ armor just takes a 5+ save) but still leaves a dilemma of the gun being either wayy too good, or unfluffily bolter-"weak"

How about make the Gauss rifle with the following statline.

Gauss Rifle 24" S:4 AP:5 Rapid Fire (Poisoned: 5+ unless you would otherwise wound on lower. Armor Flaying: Instead of rolling as normal when attempting to damage a vehicle instead roll only once adding one strength to the attack, to a maximum of 10 strength. Should you have additional hits beyond ten strength add +1 to the result on the damage chart to a maximum of +2.)

EDIT: The rules may seem long on this one, but that seems to be a Necron trait. XD

I think the power of the rending rule is somewhat mitigated by their complete inability to take special weapons. I also mis-wrote the math in my last post.

It's worth noting that anyone can kill a terminator with a lucky hit, a rending weapon just has to be slightly less lucky. 10 necron will take out 1.11 terminators with out rending
10 necron will take out 1.59 terminators with rending (thanks to their inv. save)

And that's within rapid fire range against a rending weapons best target. It seems a lot scarier then it is.

I actually like save modifiers, but they are out of fashion right now, so it's not likely to be implemented any time soon.

As for Poison 5+, that really limites it's effect to TMC & Wrathguard/lords And personally, I still like the flurry of glances, even though that seemes to make stun everything more effective then destroy one thing.

Another direction to take the guass rifle is to increase its rate of fire. A permanent FRFSRF so to speak.
Guass: Str 4 AP 5 24" Rapid Fire, Always fire one additional shot to normal.
This basicly doubles the necrons effectiveness at long range, and increases by 50% their shooting at short range, generating that many new hits, and therefore glances.

By that thinking why not just shorten the range and make it Assault 2.

Gauss: Str 4 AP 5 18" Assault 2+ current rules. You have an extra shot outside of 12", but your not getting 30 shots at close range.

Because then it's a DA Sherken Catapult.

Anyway, I like the fire getting more intence as they get closer.

lol good point. The last thing we want to do is make the Necrons anything at all like the Eldar *dodges shuriken catapult shot*

The poisoned 5+ only works if they wouldn't normally wound on better this would make them more effective against toughness six or better meaning you don't have to worry so much about your destroyers going down to a stray shot.

The base rules for poision are: If you would wound on the same roll or better, re-roll to wound instead. (although I actualy forgot that part when I first wrote it). I just don't think there's enough toughness 6 out there to make a rule that's specifily tailered to them.

Using my idea gives the warriors a special weapon equivalent against MC's and tanks. Against MC's they don't wound as well as a special weapon, but wound more often then they would normally, and against a tank they now have a good chance of killing it in one turn if enough hits can be scored.

A base squad of 10 guys will get 14 hits in Rapid Fire range. Tha'd be a Str 10, +2 table hit, with plenty of extra hits left over. That's more then some ability to deal with heavy tanks, thats superior to most anti-armor units.

That would be excellent, they'd still fold like a house of cards to shooting and it would force players to move vehicles carefully around them. Hell it might even force a meta change to deal with them.

It would make vehicles entirely useless against them. Particularly if combined with Immortals or Shroud of Night, Any vehicle against them would be a waste of points. 5 Imortals would hit like a rail-gun from 24", if not better.

....

[quote=Vladsimpaler

halo3uber wrote:Do explain, what's Yarrick's ability? In all seriousness (not really) C'Tan don't need a price drop, but Deep Strike would be nice, and Necrons need some form of DS beacon, other than the 'Lith. I mean, the C'Tan are freaking gods, why are they so fething slow? The Nightbringer takes forever to get into assault.

Um, i hate to break it to you, but... the c'tan are definately being moved to apoc only when the new 'dex comes out. I know, it's so sad isn't it !

That's just another rumor for now...

1. Make Flayed One's troops, they are just close combat warriors anyways and they really need the variety. Let them have either fleet or the ability to assault after deep striking (obviously not both)

2. Putting Pariahs in terminator armor is brilliant seeing as it stands the only way to move them up the board is to walk them anyways.

3. Keep "we'll be back" the same with the exception of making it happen right after armor saves (this helps balance it as models may need to take more than one we'll be back roll in a turn). It's not a complicated rule and really makes the Necrons them, it's not broke dont fix it.

4. Make disruption fields an extra few points per model and make it rending.

5. Leave the monolith alone but make it cost a little more maybe 245-250.

6. Give Destroyers 2 wounds.

7. Let Wraiths count as having power weapons.

8. Phase out should go.