Got my copy in today, and in about 3 minutes I'm going to kick back with a 6 pack and read it cover to cover. A brief glance at the rules has me so wanting to play the game. Small changes that add up to a lot of fun. Takes me back to the "you build a fort and I'll attack!" days of my youth. All of the new scenery pieces actually have a role in the game and rules. Or you can build it all yourself and use the same rules. Very nice. As much or as little scenery as the defender wants.

A much better reveiw after the 6 pack slides down into my belly.

GW stores and some independents should be getting them this week as well.

..................................................................................................................

As promised, a quick review of Planet Strike

Initial Observations: This book is similar to Apoc and CoD in that you're playing 40k, but in a bit different way. IMHO, it's much better than CoD, which I enjoyed, as instead of a 'down and dirty fight in Stalingrad' we have the opening sequence of Starship Troopers. (Book, not the sucky movie). It's not a tournament game, not sure how you'd even structure it as such. Like Apoc, things can be a little loose and open to abuse, and you need to work a bit with your opponent or you aren't going to have a game.

It gives huge amounts of opportunity for making scenery and modeling. And those things affect the game. In normal 40k I can build the coolest looking bunker and building complex, and then we put it on a shelf as it unbalances the game. In PS I'm encouraged to do exactly that. This brings us to the first big change: The defender gets to set up the table anyway he wants, with as many defence lines, fortresses, bastions, towers, and automated guns as he likes. These do not cost him any points at all. Free. Hell, I can final make my dream of a whole table of Gorkifications (or possibly Morkifications) come true. Walmork and Tacogork will be more than sketches on the walls of my cell.

Is this unbalancing? Not really, as you will see. Like Apocalypse, there are objectives. Every bastion and building is automatically an objective. So while the defender can put out 20 bunkers with some automated heavy bolters in them, the basic rule of "If it has a gun, it should be an objective" means he now has to defend all those points. It's not about killing, it's about holding objectives. Lots of objectives is tough to defend. All models can hold an objective. If both sides have models on the objective, or in base contact, the Attacker counts as holding it. One chaos marine can score a point for the attacking side, even if 30 orks are there as well. This is by far the biggest balance to the advantages the attacker gets.

Bastions are basically AV14 bunkers, with automated BS2 weapons that fire at the nearest target. Some of the weapons you see in the boxes can be seperate from bunkers, (quad autocannon, defense lascannon) but then they are AV10 field weapons, and can be fired by squads with a model near them. They blow up easier, but are more useful. A longrange lascannon on a bastion isn't as useful if it's hitting a grot on a 5+ vs a tank.

It's also possible to make and deploy large complexs called 'indomitable fortresses' with several linked bunkers and a large tower. They show the Dark Angels one, and it looks awesome. Needs a bit of orky graphitti, but awesome nonetheless.

The other balancing act is that the attacker gets a pretty devastating barrage of one large blast per objective. So the defender can go all bunker happy, and then see a few of them cracked open in the opening salvo and a lot of his troops pinned down for the initial assault.

Attacker comes in fast and hard. All units in reserve, but you get them into the game on a 3+, 2+, and auto. So it's all in by turn 3. All infantry, MC, and jetbikes can deepstrike, and units that have the deepstrike special rule can assault first turn when they drop. Shrike and 40 assault termies anyone? Drop, run, assault! Any units that don't DS, move onto one table edge from the attackers drop zone where his Thunderhawks, landers, rocks, or spores deployed the bulk of his army.

Defender can have reserves, but they come in from random table edges, from where ever they were stationed. Potentially useless, or potentially nasty, coming in behind the attacker.

Games are random length of 5-7 turns, so no grabbing objectives right at the end. The attacker isn't going to quite know when he needs to make that final push. Defender can't overcommit either, or he might get wiped out if the game goes longer.

Strategems. Like CoD and Apoc, you can spice up the games. Strategems are 1 to 4 points, based on how good they are. You get 1 point of strategems per objective. They are split into attacker/defender and have some army specific ones. (Yes, orks can drop rocks in additon to the initial barrage. I also am found of the general one that causes a planetquake. Cracking open the crust of the planet is just cool. )

So, basically:
-I get to build a really cool fort, you have to attack.
-We both have a lot more options for army building.
-I have to set up first and get home court advantage, shoot you on the way down with 'interceptor' weapons.
-You hit me with orbital barrages to soften me up.
-Both of us have dirty tricks.
-What we kill don't matter, (unless we tie, then it goes to kill points), just taking objectives. Attacker wins ties.
-Random game length.
-Lots of stuff deepstrikes that didn't use to, and deepstrikers assault on the turn they drop.
-Random defender reserves make for a bit of fun, and let you have things that don't get blowed up all to hell on turn 1.

Inherent problems? A couple.
-Cheeseballs that try to make overpowering scenery. "My bastion has 167 lascannons. Die Die DIe" Solution is not playing them.
-Doesn't say, but I'd assume demons use PS set up. They still deepstrike in (but not having the rule, don't assault). If defending they can set up like everyone else. Demon worlds? Demon infested Imperial fortress?
-Big One! IG advisors giving you a -3 to reserves. Breaks the game. Attacker won't get much of his troops in until turn 3. I'm just telling my crew it doesn't apply, or maybe that it's not cumulative.
-Mystics. Heh, so glad I own 6 inquisitorial squads for Apoc. Wonder if it will let my GK's score a win in PS. Possibly broken if taken by IG and not DH. We'll see.

Overall, it's a good book, has some decent art, and seems well organized. The scenery pieces coming out tie in directly. A lot of leeway is left up to the players, and is open to creative modeling. It gives the players that want a fun game some very good options. I'm giving it a B+ right now. It needed the plastic thunderhawk to get an A.)

Apologies for the randomness of the writing. Wanted to get this up ASAP, and I can blame the beer.

I believe I speak for many on Dakka when I say that I await your review with eager anticipation.

CK

now we just need it to show up in a certain bay!

dashrendar wrote:now we just need it to show up in a certain bay!

Or you could, you know, wait and buy (gasp!) it ...

I await it! I think im going to have to eat dogfood all next month...

I thought it was out next month?

Alpharius wrote:

dashrendar wrote:now we just need it to show up in a certain bay!

Or you could, you know, wait and buy (gasp!) it ...

oh, I will do that too! but I want to see it now!

H.B.M.C. wrote:I thought it was out next month?

July 4th.

I'm just well loved.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I thought it was out next month?

Remember, AychBeeEmSee, Australia always gets things late.

So how would the attacker handle a acid swamp world with the only terrain taken up entirely by the defender and the rest is impassable toxic muck except the 6 inches around the table rim?

Nice review, sounds good!

I'm looking forward to it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

beardy wrote:So how would the attacker handle a acid swamp world with the only terrain taken up entirely by the defender and the rest is impassable toxic muck except the 6 inches around the table rim?

I think he simply leaves his minis in the case and doesn't bother with something so ridiculous.

time to start looking for the torrent.

GW US stores are receiving their "black boxes" this week with the Planetstrike book in them, so there should be lots of reviews shortly even if the reviewers can't take the book home with them.

BrassScorpion wrote:GW US stores are receiving their "black boxes" this week with the Planetstrike book in them, so there should be lots of reviews shortly even if the reviewers can't take the book home with them.

Black Boxes are delayed, so we won't get the scenery bitz for a while. But they did have some of the books available, which is why I have it so early. I would assume most GW stores will have it out for perusing by friday/saturday.

Personally I want about 12 bastions, 6 defense lines, and a landing pad.

Hmm. Landing pads. Forgot to mention: A valkie can come in with hot engines moving a full 24" and sill unload troops if using a landing pad. Similar for any fast skimmer. Good for keeping some airborne troops in reserve and bringing them in as you need them to bolster a defense.

mikhaila wrote:Black Boxes are delayed, so we won't get the scenery bitz for a while.

I don't think so, I was in a US GW store looking at a black box with a Planetstrike book and Bastion sprue in it today.

Ah, then GW delayed black boxes to indy retailers (or hell, just to me maybe , who knows), and sent them to their stores. I was told monday mine was delayed. Not bothered in any case. Book is the big thing to have and enjoy. A bastion would have got in the way of finishing up those 3 skullhammers for this weekends Apoc games.

Damn, I don't know who has the advantage!

Defense being able to setup the board and deploy. Attackers being able to have turn 1 assaults... ouch, really not looking forward to Assault Terminators getting into CC on turn 1.

Regardless, sounds EPIC!!!!

I think I just heard the painful screech of gamers wallets.

So any suspicious photos of thunderhawks or is that a false rumor after all?

really looking forward to this now, the thought of massive bunker complex's is so cool, my daemons on the offense though is much much cooler!

How about races like Tyranids defending? Do they suddenly get Lascannon turrets or do they have some race-specific defensive buildings/weaponry?

Looking forward to receive the book.

But quick question: Is it additional rules or replacing rules ?

I see some massive pieces of styrofoam I've been hoarding getting Orkified quickly. Sometimes being a pack rat comes in handy.

Wow!
Damn, I wasn't this hyped for a GW product since the new Ork Codex. And here I was hoping I could resist buying new stuff, at least for a little while longer.

Well, it's now a must-buy for me, along with some Bastions and defence lines. I just need to survive the talk I'm going to have to have with the girl in which I share this.

Oh yes! Oh sweet God-Emperor Yes!!!!

Please tell me more! Pleeeaaaaaaasssssse!!!!
Are their examples of Planetary invasions? Stories where the defenders of the Imperium have held off a monstrous attacker!

(Gasp) This sounds sooooooooooo awesome!

Totally worth dusting off the IG for.

BoxANT wrote:Damn, I don't know who has the advantage!

Defense being able to setup the board and deploy. Attackers being able to have turn 1 assaults... ouch, really not looking forward to Assault Terminators getting into CC on turn 1.

I think the advantage is obviously on the attacker. They get to inflict massive bombardment and then deep strike + assault wherever they want. The defender getting access to armed terrain is a slim comfort. With rules like that, I wouldn't even bother deploying my Guardsmen on the table at all.

Why you even bother playing is a riddle to me captain pessimism.

BrookM wrote:Why you even bother playing is a riddle to me captain pessimism.

Be that as it may, I'm still not wrong. It's elementary to design an army to take advantage of these rules. Assault terminators beam in to destroy whatever decimated units are left after the bombardment. Nigh impossible to kill, they can hold whatever objective needed with complete impunity.

They can't be everywhere at once.

BrookM wrote:They can't be everywhere at once.

They don't have to be. With Deep Strike + Assault, they can be exactly where you want. You can even take Kayvaan Shrike and Fleet them.

I'll hold off judgement about the playability of this expansion until it's actually been around for a while and I've familiarised myself with the rules and gameplay.

But I will say I'm looking forward to this expansion! Looks like it could be loads of fun, and would suit the IG very well.

Sounds pretty good. But yeah, much like Apocolypse, its going to require two sane folks to stop the going overboard...

Agamemnon2 wrote:

BoxANT wrote:Damn, I don't know who has the advantage!

Defense being able to setup the board and deploy. Attackers being able to have turn 1 assaults... ouch, really not looking forward to Assault Terminators getting into CC on turn 1.

I think the advantage is obviously on the attacker. They get to inflict massive bombardment and then deep strike + assault wherever they want. The defender getting access to armed terrain is a slim comfort. With rules like that, I wouldn't even bother deploying my Guardsmen on the table at all.

Lighten up Francis. You can deploy close enough to force Assault units to DS in front of your lines...which means if they manage not to roll a scatter (66% of the time) they will get to assault the units you place up front as sac units...then get shot.

I remember when the Marine rumors were floating around...the cries of how unbalanced they were and how they would ruin the meta. They really dominate now eh?

Eh, don't mind Einar, he's just a horrible pessimist, which is well within his right of course.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:So any suspicious photos of thunderhawks or is that a false rumor after all?

That one was shot-down at Games Day, when they said it was no viable for them to make a plastic Thunderhawk with their current capacity. Basically, they cannot cut that many sprues and still maintain their regular release schedule.

mikhaila wrote:Got my copy in today, and in about 3 minutes I'm going to kick back with a 6 pack and read it cover to cover.

I am very jealous.

so much for taking the time to give us this overview/review. I was already eagerly awaiting this book, and now you have me foaming at the mouth over it...t

As I understand it, GW confirmed that the plastic Thunderhaw is ready to go into production, but is merely held back due to temporary capacity limitations. So we should expect the plastic Thunderhawk to appear later, when their release schedule slows, or they increase capacity.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

BrookM wrote:Why you even bother playing is a riddle to me captain pessimism.

Be that as it may, I'm still not wrong. It's elementary to design an army to take advantage of these rules. Assault terminators beam in to destroy whatever decimated units are left after the bombardment. Nigh impossible to kill, they can hold whatever objective needed with complete impunity.

Your reliance on theoryhammer is both a weakness and a curse.

Loosen up and play the damn game a few times before you proclaim utter DOOM!!!! with such certainty...

JohnHwangDD wrote:As I understand it, GW confirmed that the plastic Thunderhaw is ready to go into production, but is merely held back due to temporary capacity limitations. So we should expect the plastic Thunderhawk to appear later, when their release schedule slows, or they increase capacity.

My understanding is that it'd be a massive resource drain period. Their big kits apparently just completely tie up their machines. So I'd guess it's probably a matter of having both available machine time and an appropriate opening in the release schedule line up. Could be a while...or never, I guess. *shrug*

Any chance that some who has received the book can scan the picture of the ork battlewagon with a different turret and deff rolla?

Word is it the upcoming sprue.

gorgon wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:As I understand it, GW confirmed that the plastic Thunderhaw is ready to go into production, but is merely held back due to temporary capacity limitations. So we should expect the plastic Thunderhawk to appear later, when their release schedule slows, or they increase capacity.

My understanding is that it'd be a massive resource drain period. Their big kits apparently just completely tie up their machines. So I'd guess it's probably a matter of having both available machine time and an appropriate opening in the release schedule line up. Could be a while...or never, I guess. *shrug*

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. A marine superheavy is much, much too logical from a sales POV for them not to do it.

A superheavy flyer makes less sense then a plastic Titan of some sort though...

Man this sounds great. Now I finally have incentive to finish the rest of my crisis suits. A Farsight enclave assault force made entirely of crisis suits is just too awesome for words.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

BrookM wrote:Why you even bother playing is a riddle to me captain pessimism.

Be that as it may, I'm still not wrong. It's elementary to design an army to take advantage of these rules. Assault terminators beam in to destroy whatever decimated units are left after the bombardment. Nigh impossible to kill, they can hold whatever objective needed with complete impunity.

Ok so my answer to this is i put up some BS2 Plasma Cannons. Im sure more of these will hit with a direct hit or even the scatter more so than if i fire a BS2 Heavy bolter at a termy. Making the assumption that just because attacker get this or that or Defender cant assault... blah blah blah... your forgetting so many things or just being cynical. All those Termies drop on the board your so afraid of and they assault on first turn... well looks like they are assaulting through alot of cover. They dont have frags so they are gonna get hit alot. That orbital Bombardment may scatter back on you. I like the fact that at initial glance it looks like the game is giving us a new way to play.. i surely am not going to count myself out of the game if im a defender.. Thats why i play this game to come up with lists and strategies that overcome big odds.

Easy way to hamstring DS'ers is to throw craters and rubble everywhere and give them no clear ground to arrive in.

Are baneblades allowed? If I'm the attacker can my baneblades deep strike?

Necros wrote:Are baneblades allowed? If I'm the attacker can my baneblades deep strike?

read the initial post.

Tanks are not one of the things that deepstrike.

In addition Super Heavies are not normally allowed in non-Apoc games unless both parties consent. So you might be able to use one in a planetstrike game, but it would start off table in reserve.

Necros wrote:Are baneblades allowed? If I'm the attacker can my baneblades deep strike?

Continuing this subject, can I head dive my Reaver onto the table?

His Master's Voice wrote:

Necros wrote:Are baneblades allowed? If I'm the attacker can my baneblades deep strike?

Continuing this subject, can I head dive my Reaver onto the table?

Is it me or is that image just full of some much win I can't stand it!!!

His Master's Voice wrote:

Necros wrote:Are baneblades allowed? If I'm the attacker can my baneblades deep strike?

Continuing this subject, can I head dive my Reaver onto the table?

No, but your Heirodules and other TMCs will be just fine...

Was there anything in the rules about Xenos (ie Necron) fortification construction.
Or is the book focus on human construction?
  ~ B

Belphegor wrote:Was there anything in the rules about Xenos (ie Necron) fortification construction.
Or is the book focus on human construction?
  ~ B

I'm guessing any meaty content in this regard will be the subject of a WD article or two...

windswept313 wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:

BrookM wrote:Why you even bother playing is a riddle to me captain pessimism.

Be that as it may, I'm still not wrong. It's elementary to design an army to take advantage of these rules. Assault terminators beam in to destroy whatever decimated units are left after the bombardment. Nigh impossible to kill, they can hold whatever objective needed with complete impunity.

Ok so my answer to this is i put up some BS2 Plasma Cannons. Im sure more of these will hit with a direct hit or even the scatter more so than if i fire a BS2 Heavy bolter at a termy. Making the assumption that just because attacker get this or that or Defender cant assault... blah blah blah... your forgetting so many things or just being cynical. All those Termies drop on the board your so afraid of and they assault on first turn... well looks like they are assaulting through alot of cover. They dont have frags so they are gonna get hit alot. That orbital Bombardment may scatter back on you. I like the fact that at initial glance it looks like the game is giving us a new way to play.. i surely am not going to count myself out of the game if im a defender.. Thats why i play this game to come up with lists and strategies that overcome big odds.

Well, congratulations to you, you're squarely in GW's target audience: a naive optimist.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

windswept313 wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:

BrookM wrote:Why you even bother playing is a riddle to me captain pessimism.

Be that as it may, I'm still not wrong. It's elementary to design an army to take advantage of these rules. Assault terminators beam in to destroy whatever decimated units are left after the bombardment. Nigh impossible to kill, they can hold whatever objective needed with complete impunity.

Ok so my answer to this is i put up some BS2 Plasma Cannons. Im sure more of these will hit with a direct hit or even the scatter more so than if i fire a BS2 Heavy bolter at a termy. Making the assumption that just because attacker get this or that or Defender cant assault... blah blah blah... your forgetting so many things or just being cynical. All those Termies drop on the board your so afraid of and they assault on first turn... well looks like they are assaulting through alot of cover. They dont have frags so they are gonna get hit alot. That orbital Bombardment may scatter back on you. I like the fact that at initial glance it looks like the game is giving us a new way to play.. i surely am not going to count myself out of the game if im a defender.. Thats why i play this game to come up with lists and strategies that overcome big odds.

Well, congratulations to you, you're squarely in GW's target audience: a naive optimist.

Or you guys could realize that just like apocalypse its a scenario game, not designed for competitive play. Seriously.

He's got a thing against optimists and everything good of the hobby, I think his choice of a plague doctor is rather fitting.

Now I really am going to have to make all that Tyranid terrain I have been planning.

AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!

ShumaGorath wrote:Or you guys could realize that just like apocalypse its a scenario game, not designed for competitive play. Seriously.

Hey, I don't play 40k competitively. If I did, I'd be the laughing stock of my community thanks to my stupefying ability not to win a single game except by accident. I just don't fancy the idea of the Planetstrike scenario, especially since some armies (read: Marines) are so much better at Deep Striking (this in isolation is all fine and dandy, the Marines' niche is supposed to be their ability to set the terms of an engagement).

On a different note, I don't see IG benefitting from being the attacker much at all. Six Elite slots is worthless when your best choices for them are Psykers and Ratlings.

ShumaGorath wrote:Or you guys could realize that just like apocalypse its a scenario game, not designed for competitive
play. Seriously.

+1, QFT.

Redemption wrote:How about races like Tyranids defending? Do they suddenly get Lascannon turrets or do they have some race-specific defensive buildings/weaponry?

The suggestions are that you can modify buildings, and use weapons from your army. Or make tyranid spore chimneys that count as bunkers and shoot devourers. Or something else crazy and neat. You don't have to stick to the IG buildings, but it's suggested you use them as templates for the power level.

So an orky fortress with heavy shooters and a turret mounted longrange zappy gun! Much better than stupid heavy bolters and lascannons. And automated guns shoot just as good as orks.

Hey, I don't play 40k competitively. If I did, I'd be the laughing stock of my community thanks to my stupefying ability not to win a single game except by accident. I just don't fancy the idea of the Planetstrike scenario, especially since some armies (read: Marines) are so much better at Deep Striking (this in isolation is all fine and dandy, the Marines' niche is supposed to be their ability to set the terms of an engagement).

Yes, and many armies are aided powerfully by the revised force org charts whereas others aren't effected at all. It's a scenario game, if you feel you are at a disadvantage voice your concern to the opponent. Or the game master, since both the apoc book and likely this one will suggest that some games or gamers may want an impartial hand guiding the game.

Scenario game. Not competitive. Issues like powerbuilds aren't supposed to be an issue because that is left up to the players.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Or you guys could realize that just like apocalypse its a scenario game, not designed for competitive play. Seriously.

Hey, I don't play 40k competitively. If I did, I'd be the laughing stock of my community thanks to my stupefying ability not to win a single game except by accident. I just don't fancy the idea of the Planetstrike scenario, especially since some armies (read: Marines) are so much better at Deep Striking (this in isolation is all fine and dandy, the Marines' niche is supposed to be their ability to set the terms of an engagement).

On a different note, I don't see IG benefitting from being the attacker much at all. Six Elite slots is worthless when your best choices for them are Psykers and Ratlings.

Hehe your persistent pessimism to anything that is new, different or just not yours may already put you as the laughing stock of this community so dont worry too much give it a try. I would love to see you write some battle reports.. I think it would make for good reading as each turn is described as being the worst ever and how you are doomed to fail until you roll the dice and you win! It would be very liberating im sure.

On topic: I look forward to seeing APocalypse style planet strikes. Seeing pods dropping all over with Ironclads and superheavy fortifications. Like having the Star Wars Ion Cannon on Hoth dropping 10" plates all over deep strikers because the mystics are tuned in to the world around. A lot of room for new types of datasheets.

Agamemnon2 wrote:
On a different note, I don't see IG benefitting from being the attacker much at all. Six Elite slots is worthless when your best choices for them are Psykers and Ratlings.

Doesn't the attacker get 6 elite and 6 fast attack? If so that's a possible 18 valkryie/vendetta's, come on now if that doesn't sound cool I don't know what is. Add to that Storm Trooper squads coming out of the sky and that's an impressive visual.

To be realistic tho. I actually like the idea of being able to field my 6 vendetta's/valkryies all as independent units instead of squadrons. And Storm Troopers seem to be made for the assault role for guard. For thematic games I'm really liking the idea.

Agamemnon2 wrote: Six Elite slots is worthless when your best choices for them are Psykers and Ratlings.

Bring out the ogryn rush! Clubber down them walls! Oi!

Looks like a nice supplement, but maybe I will just get the buildings.

Greets
Schepp himself

Now I've got a reason to finish my Ork terrain.
And build a table for it of course

Agamemnon2 wrote: Six Elite slots is worthless when your best choices for them are Psykers and Ratlings.

3 units of Psykers in 3 units of Valks / Vendettas isn't bad, especially if you grab a DH Assassin or GKTs. Toss in some Hellhounds and you're golden.
____

Warmaster wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:
On a different note, I don't see IG benefitting from being the attacker much at all. Six Elite slots is worthless when your best choices for them are Psykers and Ratlings.

Doesn't the attacker get 6 elite and 6 fast attack? If so that's a possible 18 valkryie/vendetta's,

Add to that Storm Trooper squads coming out of the sky and that's an impressive visual.

To be realistic tho. I actually like the idea of being able to field my 6 vendetta's/valkryies all as independent units instead of squadrons.

And Storm Troopers seem to be made for the assault role for guard. For thematic games I'm really liking the idea.

Yup, 6 Elite and and 6 Fast attacking. But no way am I dropping the better part of a grand on Valks & Vendettas!

6 squads Stormtroopers? I'd laugh 6x at Epic Fail:

Realistically, that'll be 3 Valks/Vendettas, 2 Hellhounds, and a couple Sentinels, so I won't need such heavy use of Squadroning.

IG Storms are fail, though if they were 10, even 12 pts, they'd be OK.
____

Schepp himself wrote: Bring out the ogryn rush! Clubber down them walls! Oi!

The only thing worse than fielding 16-pt Storms are 40-pt Ogryns!

God damn it, don't suck the fun out of everything, it's just a scenario so play it.

I wonder what a "balanced" number of automated weapons per fortification would be. This will probably call for a house rule.

For defensive weapons, blast weapons do seem like a good idea. Are MLs allowed?

On a separate note, with the landing pad being so badass, I think I know what my next Eldar terrain project is going to be...

mikhaila wrote: Walmork and Tacogork will be more than sketches on the walls of my cell.

ROFLMAO. mikhaila, thanks for posting this review!

BrookM wrote:God damn it, don't suck the fun out of everything, it's just a scenario so play it.

Relax, it's not a big deal. If the scenario says to bring Storms & Ogryns, I'd do my best, even though I don't have any Ogryns, and don't intend on buying any...

Actually, I'm not buying anything extra for Planetstrike because I already bought for the year and have plenty enough stuff.

@Agamemnon2

Your initial reaction to the ruleset is natural, but if you just follow the line of thinking a bit more, you can come to a very happy conclusion. I'll do it from a guard perspective because I know its what you play, and I fancy myself a guard player as well.

First, guard as the attacker. Two months ago you may have been right, but its no coincidence that valkyries just came out. Valkyries loaded with veterans supported by astropaths make for a devastating attacker force. They don't have a focus on close combat. but with rocket pod valks and trip lascannon vendies, carrying trip meltagun and sometimes heavy flamer toting BS4 7 point guardsmen, you are going to lay an instantaneous hurtin' bomb on your opponent. Its fluffy, its fun, and its totally competitive.

Second, defending against termie assaults. Ok first off. If you don't take shrike, you'll need to actually land within 6" of a unit. As we have already seen with zagstruk and with vanguard veterans, this 'ability' is novel unless its combined with a locator beacon/teleport homer. If you took shrike, great, your chances at a first turn assault are increased. IG on the ground or IG mechanized don't really care that you've got a first turn assault, you will either be fed a 75 point line squad or a 55 point chimera, you'll win, consolidate in the open (won't be able to sweeping advance the line squad, who can GBITF and plasma you next turn) and then the rest of the army, including the 6 slots filled with leman russes, will open up on your terminators and you'll scoop them.

Now, assault terminators can and will be a competitive choice for an attacker. But if the attacker doesn't also take support for these units, then they are going to land, kill something (if their scatter was lucky) or mishap, then get shot to bits. Not to mention that as they deep strike they will all be shot by all of the automated guns that the defender gets that are on deep strike overwatch.

It's waaaay to early to pick a winning side, as far as i can tell, being the defender has more advantages, but much more responsibility, He gets to take all the defensive structures, but also has to protect them. The attacker doesn't have any responsibilities other than being able to maneuver rather quickly. But is also faced with a defender that set up the entire battlefield, and is defending a carefully planned structure. With 6 heavy support slots.


I can't wait. Heading to my LGS after work and hoping they've gotten their black box... then i'm going to drink it all in.

Every Imperial Guard player facing Assault Terminators is going to laugh, because they're *all* going to be fielding Inquisitor Lord w/ 3 Mystics in some vehicle near *squadrons* of Demolishers / Medusas / Executioners / Meltahounds / Vendettas.

That said, massed autogun BS2 Plasma Cannons would be pretty funny...

Agamemnon2 wrote:
Hey, I don't play 40k competitively. If I did, I'd be the laughing stock of my community thanks to my stupefying ability not to win a single game except by accident. I just don't fancy the idea of the Planetstrike scenario, especially since some armies (read: Marines) are so much better at Deep Striking (this in isolation is all fine and dandy, the Marines' niche is supposed to be their ability to set the terms of an engagement).

On a different note, I don't see IG benefitting from being the attacker much at all. Six Elite slots is worthless when your best choices for them are Psykers and Ratlings.

And some armies (read IG) are really good at defending. Sounds like a great scenario to me.

But what do I know, I'm just a naive optimist who is happy that GW is expanding the scope of the game, offering new scenarios for me to play, and giving me really cool terrain to play with.

Shep wrote:@Agamemnon2]First, guard as the attacker. Two months ago you may have been right, but its no coincidence that valkyries just came out.

I don't think there's any way "Guard as attacker" will be a close game unless your opponent goes really easy on you. The major advantages of being a Planetstrike attacker (extra elite slots, assault on the turn you land) are largely wasted on Guard. Valkyries are good, but they're not good enough.

That said, it seems to me that Planetstike's lack of balance will actually help ensure that players are more willing to allow handicaps. if I want to change things up and try a game on offense I would expect significant concessions from my opponent in exchange for me playing the attacker; if he's unwilling to bend the rules to make a more fair match, then we probably should just go back to "stock" 40k, which at least has some rudimentary level of balance.

Funny. One would think that planetstrike was made for selling Valyries.

But, since it's not supposed to be very competive, I could finally build my Ork Walkairr

Schepp himself wrote:Bring out the ogryn rush! Clubber down them walls! Oi!

I'm actually one of the few people who could do that right off the bat, I can field 630 points of Ogryns (three five-man squads). Unfortunately, what I can't field is Leman Russes (I don't own any), Basilisks (zero), Valkyries (none of these either), Psykers (no, nor these) or a Daemonhunter Inquisitor with Mystics (I own three Inquisitors, but no Mystics). I also can't field veterans with plasma guns (I don't own enough plasmagun models) or meltas (ditto). Aside from those deficits, I own 4000+ points of Guard, i.e. all the crap units.

Anung Un Rama wrote:Funny. One would think that planetstrike was made for selling Valyries.

Actually it was made to sell drop pods. I only need 8-10 more, and a second job

Dave47 wrote:I don't think there's any way "Guard as attacker" will be a close game unless your opponent goes really easy on you. The major advantages of being a Planetstrike attacker (extra elite slots, assault on the turn you land) are largely wasted on Guard. Valkyries are good, but they're not good enough.

what basis do you have for this? The games are still at set point values. Having 6 fast attack and 6 elites is not really going to come up for everyone. Being able to run 12 valkyries in squadrons no bigger than two is devastating. Since double astropath alpha strike IG is a completely viable competitive force even using the standard FOC, and we haven't even seen what attacker stratagems IG has access to.

how about i take the 4 point stratagem that lets me deep strike vehicles and i take 12 devildogs with heavy flamers. Along with my two astropaths. I don't think I'll need you to "take it easy" on me if I'm going to be deepstriking 12 meltacannons automatically on my first reserves roll.

Dave47 wrote:That said, it seems to me that Planetstike's lack of balance...

We've seen one review from an anonymous internet poster and planetstrike has been declared 'unbalanced'? Let's all just play some games first, before coming to that conclusion. In looking at the rumors, I have already seen some very powerful combos, but I'm also quick to see how many counters are already built in to codecies or in the defenders options in planetstrike. I'm sure every attacker will be pushing for first turn assaults in the first few weeks of the game, while every defender starts spamming overwatching guns to counter the short range DS spam. And then a shrewd attacker will realize that if you start farther back (or don't deep strike) then you can marginalize the spamming of the anti-DS guns. All of the new combos are there, but i haven't heard anyone talk about anything uncounterable yet.

Agamemnon2 wrote:[I can field 630 points of Ogryns (three five-man squads).

Unfortunately, what I can't field is Leman Russes (I don't own any), Basilisks (zero), Valkyries (none of these either), Psykers (no, nor these) or a Daemonhunter Inquisitor with Mystics (I own three Inquisitors, but no Mystics). I also can't field veterans with plasma guns (I don't own enough plasmagun models) or meltas (ditto).

Aside from those deficits, I own 4000+ points of Guard, i.e. all the crap units.

Well, I guess that explains your Win/Loss ratio...

I, on the other hand, have nearly a half-dozen Russes, a couple Bassies, 3 brand-new Valks, Inquisitor & Mystics, along with shedloads of formerly-droppable Plasma & Meltas supported by Hellhounds & Chimeras. I have no Ogryns nor Ratlings whatsoever, and all of my Storms are Inquisitional.

Naturally, I have done OK fielding Guard.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

windswept313 wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:

BrookM wrote:Why you even bother playing is a riddle to me captain pessimism.

Be that as it may, I'm still not wrong. It's elementary to design an army to take advantage of these rules. Assault terminators beam in to destroy whatever decimated units are left after the bombardment. Nigh impossible to kill, they can hold whatever objective needed with complete impunity.

Ok so my answer to this is i put up some BS2 Plasma Cannons. Im sure more of these will hit with a direct hit or even the scatter more so than if i fire a BS2 Heavy bolter at a termy. Making the assumption that just because attacker get this or that or Defender cant assault... blah blah blah... your forgetting so many things or just being cynical. All those Termies drop on the board your so afraid of and they assault on first turn... well looks like they are assaulting through alot of cover. They dont have frags so they are gonna get hit alot. That orbital Bombardment may scatter back on you. I like the fact that at initial glance it looks like the game is giving us a new way to play.. i surely am not going to count myself out of the game if im a defender.. Thats why i play this game to come up with lists and strategies that overcome big odds.

Well, congratulations to you, you're squarely in GW's target audience: a naive optimist.

LOL..The sky is falling..The sky is falling. Everything is horrible. Nothing will be good. I won't even give it a chance to have a possibility of having any redeeming qualities, and I will come to this conclusion before I ever see it or play it.

EDIT: I am looking forward to what this will add to game play. Sure looks like it could be a lot of fun. Plus, all the new terrain is very nice. My bank account won't think so.

Deep striking Guard with demo charges sound like a pretty good/hilarious way to ruin a defender's day.

Just throwing that out there to quell all the "IG can't attack" naysayers a little.

Can we get some images of the new artwork in the book? That's good stuff.

Wow, now I'll be able to use that big-ass fortress that I built (as soon as I paint it...)!! Looks cool, and it's open enough that we could just balance it out more with house-rules and game-specific changes(ex. if 'Nids want to defend and IG attack, something must be done to balance it out a bit).

Sounds awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Agamemnon2 wrote:
Hey, I don't play 40k competitively. If I did, I'd be the laughing stock of my community thanks to my stupefying ability not to win a single game except by accident.

If you only play for fun, just shut the heck up! Leave all of us ""naive optimists" alone please.

Well I think it sounds great. Can't wait to get my hands on the book and, more importantly, the new terrain!!!

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT!

I was created (born) for this! Attack, defend, makes no difference to me. When it comes to fortifications, Iron Warriors are second to none.

SUCK IT DORN!

Your iron won't save you from the sons of russ.

Hey, anyone notic on the Chaos vs Guard page near the back, the Godseed or somthin. Look closely at the daemon prince, hes not the metal one! Hes got powered armor, a different torso than the warriors one, and looks incredible!!! I cant wait for the plastic 40k prince now..

Perturabo's Chosen wrote:IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT!

I was created (born) for this! Attack, defend, makes no difference to me. When it comes to fortifications, Iron Warriors are second to none.

SUCK IT DORN!

Where is your special codex now?

I could play two games of planetstrike as defenders and still have extra heavy support left over.

On a more serious note, Planetstrike games look more to be the sort played in gaming groups/ between friends, not as pickup games or in tournaments. They look to be more focus on rule #1 than any of the other rules: HAVE FUN!

Agamemnon2 wrote:Unfortunately, what I can't field is Leman Russes (I don't own any), Basilisks (zero) I own 4000+ points of Guard, i.e. all the crap units.

I have never ever heard of IG without their main famous tanks o_o ( even if they are hideously ugly )

what exactly do you fill the army with? like 600 guardsmen?

Probably the crushing depression flooding from his mind like a dark aura.

LunaHound wrote:I have never ever heard of IG without their main famous tanks o_o ( even if they are hideously ugly )

what exactly do you fill the army with? like 600 guardsmen?

I dislike the Leman Russ model too much to own one. What I do have is a whole bunch of Guardsmen, two Medusas, a Griffon, two Thudd Guns, 15 Ogryns, 10 Ratlings, 2-4 Sentinels, a squad of ISTs, a Cyclops, a whole bunch of Last Chancers I'm turning into Veterans, two Malcadors, a Baneblade, an Arvus, a Hellhound conversion and a Hydra.

I can see myself getting this book and a crap ton of terrain and maybe even a second drop pod! But goodness only knows when I'll find the time to assemble and paint it all...

I'll probably just postpone it all til I get a gap in my schedule. This summer's earmarked for getting big into 20mm WWII gaming, so there's not much overlap, sadly!

Agamemnon2 wrote:I dislike the Leman Russ model too much to own one.

Then convert one!

I see you're OK with the Chimera & Malcador chassis, and you're OK to do conversion, so get cracking!

That's what I did.

Planet Strike sounds pretty good and at £15 is twice as attractive as Apocalypse.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:I dislike the Leman Russ model too much to own one.

Then convert one!

I see you're OK with the Chimera & Malcador chassis, and you're OK to do conversion, so get cracking!

Easier done than you think, double-D. It's just a matter of finishing the project:

http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/agamemnon667/Unnamed%20Tank%20Project/

Alas, the tank is somewhat too big, which I should have taken into account whilst building it.

This whole Planetstrike thing is just so exciting I am beginning to get worried I will burn out and be really disappointed. Everything sounds so cool, I am half expecting 5 point "gives backrubs" upgrades for all units.

maybe asked and answered but I'm going to ask anyway.

If bunkers or bastions are destroyed do they still count as objectives?

Agamemnon2 wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:I dislike the Leman Russ model too much to own one.

Then convert one!

I see you're OK with the Chimera & Malcador chassis, and you're OK to do conversion, so get cracking!

Easier done than you think, double-D. It's just a matter of finishing the project:

http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s319/agamemnon667/Unnamed%20Tank%20Project/

Alas, the tank is somewhat too big, which I should have taken into account whilst building it.

I remember those pics!

It's a great start and the tracks and profile look great.

The biggest problem is that your turret is way too big. With a WW1 Brit-style chassis, mount the Battlecannon like the Stryker MGS, and it'll look a lot better.

The inner hull could be at least 3/8" narrower, maybe 1/2" or more. That would help the "wide track" look. Also, extend it rearward, like the Malcador you have for comparison, but that's somewhat optional.

I was not very exited about this as im a tournament player primarilly but the idea of building your defensive board as an extention of your list does sound like fun.

I would play these like mega battles or apoc games, really not caring who wins or loses just looking to create some great cinematic moments.

Like 18 Valkyries swooping down from the sky with some Hanz Zimmer booming in the background !!!

JohnHwangDD wrote:It's a great start and the tracks and profile look great.

The biggest problem is that your turret is way too big. With a WW1 Brit-style chassis, mount the Battlecannon like the Stryker MGS, and it'll look a lot better.

The inner hull could be at least 3/8" narrower, maybe 1/2" or more. That would help the "wide track" look. Also, extend it rearward, like the Malcador you have for comparison, but that's somewhat optional.

I did consider it, but narrowing the hull means having much less space for the turret, doubly so because I have to build up the hull between the upper track runs in order to have clearance. at any rate, I'm not very good with making complex styrene shapes, so it's unlikely I'll revisit the turret anytime soon. It's big, sure, but it reminds me of the Cromwell.

But that's off the topic.

asmith wrote:maybe asked and answered but I'm going to ask anyway.

If bunkers or bastions are destroyed do they still count as objectives?

In most cases, yes. Orks can drop a rock on you as a strategem. If it hits a building, you totally remove it, put in a crater, and needless to say, it's not an objective any longer.) Other than that, they still count. You have to take and hold the territory, no sitting back and shooting it.

I'd be curious to hear from the OP if the Planetstrike terrain rules talk about or include the subject of deepstriking units and terrain to represent heir means of entry, etc.

For example if I attack with my Tyranids and deepstrike a bunch of units do I have to or am I allowed to model mycetic spore terrain/templates to show where they landed? Do the rules address or allow for this? How are such things treated by the Planetstrike rules if at all? Do they give guidelines as far as size to model such things? I hope such stuff is part of Planetstrike.

I have had an idea for a way to model and cast some neat mycetic spores but have had no motivation to do so up to now. Does Planetstrike go into this?

If it does I'm gonna want to start producing my mycetic spores now so they are ready when Planetstrike is released. Thanks for any headsup or info you can provide on this...

mikhaila wrote:

asmith wrote:maybe asked and answered but I'm going to ask anyway.

If bunkers or bastions are destroyed do they still count as objectives?

In most cases, yes. Orks can drop a rock on you as a strategem. If it hits a building, you totally remove it, put in a crater, and needless to say, it's not an objective any longer.) Other than that, they still count. You have to take and hold the territory, no sitting back and shooting it.

mikhaila, any chance of a scan of the image with the ork battlewagon kitted with a deth rolla and kill kannon?

Well, one of the first things I'm going to do as soon as I can get my hands on the book, is play planetstrike apocalypse. Which will be fun.

Don't forget to throw in some cities of death ruins. Now a game with strategems, assets and Planetstrike benefits would be really neat. If somewhat confusing.

Hey guys, just got a nice long look at the book in the FLGS. I committed as much of the nuts and bolts of the planetstrike mission as I could so i can help you all plan your new army lists and plan what terrain you want to pre-order.

Warseer has the step by step of setting up a planetstrike mission. I'll use that to show you what you need to do to set up a game.

1. Choose attacker or defender. Pretty self explanatory.

2. Choose forces. You've seen the special force org charts.

3. Select a mission. There are 6 differrent missions. The first one, planetfall is the basic barebones mission and the only one I looked at. The 5 others have much more narrative importance, they put either the attacker or the defender in a lot more precarious situation. They also follow a narrative path. Planetfall being first, then a beachhead type scenario, finishing with the attacker wiping out the last of the defenders in a planet destroying finale. I suppose you could roll to randomly determine which mission to play, but it seems more like playing the default planetfall has endless variation when you take into account the next steps.

4. Prepare battlefield. Just to clarify whats already been rumored. The defender places everything. He is encouraged to be as devious as he wants. PLace every last hill, tree, building and wall, wherever you want. The defender may place any amount of bastions and defensive walls here too. This step goes hand in hand with the next step.

5. Determine objectives. Its up to the players what is an objective and how many there are. They give rough guidelines, basically any piece of terrain that can hold models and/or has a gun should be an objective. This step is vital to the preceding step because the attacker can place sentry guns down (a quad autocannon and a 96" range lascannon) while setting up the table, but the number of these guns is restricted to the number of objectives agreed upon. Also, the guns fire for the defender automatically, but any model may also get within 2" of a gun and fire it, using its ballistic skill. I scoured the rule a few times to make sure, and I am alsmost postive that this means that an attacker could "take over" a quad autocannon, spin it around and spray defenders with it. To score an objective, you need to have a single model in a unit be in BASE CONTACT with the objective. Tie goes to the attacker. The base contact thing leads me to believe that walls of stubborn guardsmen are going to be infuriating when trying to take a bastion. Try as you might, you'll have to fight through 40-50 guys to get your one model close enough to touch. Tanks will be vital as they can tank shock/ram, but as a manned bastion is counted as an enemy vehicle I'm not sure if a vehicle that can't ram or charge can even get into base to base contact. Anyway, thats another one to remember. must be actually touching the model.

6. Attacker preps invasion. infantry, jump infantry, jet bikes, and monstrous creatures get to deep strike, everything else has to walk, and EVERYTHING the attacker has is in reserve. The attacker chooses a table edge (any table edge) and that becomes the 'drop zone'. Basically it is the side closest to where the attacker staged his advance. On turn one the attackers units arrive on a 3+ turn 2 2+ turn 3 auto.

7. Determine stratagems. They suggest your first few planetstrike games be free of these. The game seems to run fine without them, they have a cost associated with each one. The cheapest ones are very akin to cities of death strategems, and the most expensnive are more equivalent in power to apocalypse strategic assets. I looked through them all. At first glance nothing seems to be in any danger of breaking the game from abuse. I won't list any here, as i didn't spend all that much time on them, these are what you'll buy the book for.

8. Defender deploys. The defenders deployment zone is... the table. He can set up his entire army now, anywhere he wants. My only balance concern is that if the attacker did indeed reveal which side was his drop zone, then an army with enough models could completely block that table edge. This would not affect infantry, jump infantry, MCs or jetbikes, nor would it affect skimmers or tanks (who could deep strike, fly over or tank shock) But an army consisting of nothing but bikes or cavalry, could technically have no legal deployment. Taking at least a couple vehicles could allow for a bubble of cavalry to deploy behind a walled tank shock. Plus the friendly nature of this game probably won't lead to many players using deployment to completely seal off their opponents deployment. The defender can use reserves (and I'm telling you now, it will probably be the key to victory for a lot of players armies.) If they do then when a unit becomes available, you roll a D6. 1-2 is the edge opposite your opponents drop zone, 5-6 is your opponents drop zone, and 3-4 are the two table edges that are touching the opponents drop zone.

9. Attacker launches firestorm. How many bastions did the defender want? Did he get greedy? here is where you make him pay. The attacker gets to fire D6+x basilisk shells, where X= number of objectives. All units are immune to morale but not to pinning, you do not reduce the scatter by anyones BS. Any blast marker that hits nothing at all creates a crater terrain piece.

10. play... attacker goes first.


What does this all mean? Well, later in the book they demonstrate a couple ways for the defender to set up. The first one that will come to everyones head is the castle. Put some bastions up in the center of the table, and surround them with defense lines and then man the lines with guys. let the enemy surround you and guard the objectives. There is a great picture, looks fun. BUT, the openness and freedom the defender has in constructing his best bet defense can make for some CRAZY scenarios. The very next one they showcase is called the 'crossfire' Bastions were placed along the long table edges right in the center, a defense line ran across the table bisecting it and connecting the two bastions. Then in each opposite corner another bastion was set up with defense lines surrounding it. After deployment, and with the use of the bastions, it is impossible for the defenders to pick an edge that would let them do anything but flow in between the two defense set ups. What this means is that the defenders all will be moving on (or deep striking in) to a crossfire. You'll really get it when you see it. Frankly the idea of using terrain as a competitive element to game design is pure genius. VERY soon, rather than seeing an army list critique thread, we are going to see critique threads for defender terrain set ups. We will be commenting on how we think he should move his quad autocannon to the second bastion on the hill, rather than add a lash prince, etc.

Other races. You can set up the table however you want as the defender. That means you can just set up one building in the center as an objective, and leave it basically bare otherwise. There is a great shot of a tyranid defender, that basically was guarding a lone outpost in the middle of the table. The rest of the terrain that was set up were spore chimneys and capillary towers. Rather than a complex line of defenses, the tyranids had taken over something that was obviously vitally important and the attacker was launching an assault to reclaim it. I didn't see anything specifically mention demons. I believe their arrival rules are still intact. As attackers, their ENTIRE ARMY can assault the turn they land, but as defenders I believe they will be deep striking as normal. With attackers getting the first turn automatically that does give them an advantage as a defender, along with them being able to set up the terrain. You will have to use your imagination to figure out what they are defending. I suggest just placing no terrain and having the center of the table be a warp gate with a 'counts as' quad auto-cannon. You have lured the attackers into your web.

Bottom line, there is WAY too much fun to be had with this book. This is no cities of death. Using terrain and building an unassailable defense network, only to be surprised and undermined by your attackers dirty tricks is just awesome. Every time your regular opponent adjusts his attacker strategy to beat your 4 bastion crossfire configuration, then you surprise him with a castle on the hill. or a long table edge thin with 6 bastions and 6 icarus lascannons.

LunaHound wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:Unfortunately, what I can't field is Leman Russes (I don't own any), Basilisks (zero) I own 4000+ points of Guard, i.e. all the crap units.

I have never ever heard of IG without their main famous tanks o_o ( even if they are hideously ugly )

what exactly do you fill the army with? like 600 guardsmen?

I used to run a deathworld vet list with no tanks and no lascannons. I got two russes in a trade, and they started making appearances in last edition. But lots of guardsmen is a perfectly viable way to face terminators. for 10 assault terminators I can have 50 men plus lots of fun weapon extras, and my all time favorite demo charges. trading 10 men for a turn to stave off an assault is easily doable.

As an attacker, IG can field lots of melta and flamers, and enough bodies that the return fire will not be able to eliminate them all.

Shep wrote:


What does this all mean? Well, later in the book they demonstrate a couple ways for the defender to set up. The first one that will come to everyones head is the castle. Put some bastions up in the center of the table, and surround them with defense lines and then man the lines with guys. let the enemy surround you and guard the objectives. There is a great picture, looks fun. BUT, the openness and freedom the defender has in constructing his best bet defense can make for some CRAZY scenarios. The very next one they showcase is called the 'crossfire' Bastions were placed along the long table edges right in the center, a defense line ran across the table bisecting it and connecting the two bastions. Then in each opposite corner another bastion was set up with defense lines surrounding it. After deployment, and with the use of the bastions, it is impossible for the defenders to pick an edge that would let them do anything but flow in between the two defense set ups. What this means is that the defenders all will be moving on (or deep striking in) to a crossfire. You'll really get it when you see it. Frankly the idea of using terrain as a competitive element to game design is pure genius. VERY soon, rather than seeing an army list critique thread, we are going to see critique threads for defender terrain set ups. We will be commenting on how we think he should move his quad autocannon to the second bastion on the hill, rather than add a lash prince, etc.

Other races. You can set up the table however you want as the defender. That means you can just set up one building in the center as an objective, and leave it basically bare otherwise. There is a great shot of a tyranid defender, that basically was guarding a lone outpost in the middle of the table. The rest of the terrain that was set up were spore chimneys and capillary towers. Rather than a complex line of defenses, the tyranids had taken over something that was obviously vitally important and the attacker was launching an assault to reclaim it. I didn't see anything specifically mention demons. I believe their arrival rules are still intact. As attackers, their ENTIRE ARMY can assault the turn they land, but as defenders I believe they will be deep striking as normal. With attackers getting the first turn automatically that does give them an advantage as a defender, along with them being able to set up the terrain. You will have to use your imagination to figure out what they are defending. I suggest just placing no terrain and having the center of the table be a warp gate with a 'counts as' quad auto-cannon. You have lured the attackers into your web.

Bottom line, there is WAY too much fun to be had with this book. This is no cities of death. Using terrain and building an unassailable defense network, only to be surprised and undermined by your attackers dirty tricks is just awesome. Every time your regular opponent adjusts his attacker strategy to beat your 4 bastion crossfire configuration, then you surprise him with a castle on the hill. or a long table edge thin with 6 bastions and 6 icarus lascannons.

Good stuff. I can't wait for this suppliment.

Looks like it will be something defintely to play even with the horrifying concept of Assault terminators being able to assault right after the ds

Arthas367 wrote:Looks like it will be something defintely to play even with the horrifying concept of Assault terminators being able to assault right after the ds

With the defender's ability to place terrain, seems like you could make deepstriking into assault range kinda dicey.

Nyarlathotep wrote:

Arthas367 wrote:Looks like it will be something defintely to play even with the horrifying concept of Assault terminators being able to assault right after the ds

With the defender's ability to place terrain, seems like you could make deepstriking into assault range kinda dicey.

Agreed, I think most of the folks worried about this are underestimating the value of difficult terrain and minefields surrounding your outposts/forts. I think that unless there is something about the preliminary bombardment removing terrain features its unlikely to occur very often (unless the defender makes a mistake).

Plaguelord40K wrote:Hey, anyone notic on the Chaos vs Guard page near the back, the Godseed or somthin. Look closely at the daemon prince, hes not the metal one! Hes got powered armor, a different torso than the warriors one, and looks incredible!!! I cant wait for the plastic 40k prince now..

Can anyone else confirm this (instead of more kibbitzing about IG)?

Also, I rehash my earlier question: Are those quad cannons and lascannons the only automated defenses mentioned, or are whatever other guns one has built into one's defenses also free (like the HBs on the bastions)? If the latter, I wonder what a guideline for a fair number of guns per feature would be.

Savnock wrote:

Plaguelord40K wrote:Hey, anyone notic on the Chaos vs Guard page near the back, the Godseed or somthin. Look closely at the daemon prince, hes not the metal one! Hes got powered armor, a different torso than the warriors one, and looks incredible!!! I cant wait for the plastic 40k prince now..

Can anyone else confirm this (instead of more kibbitzing about IG)?

Also, I rehash my earlier question: Are those quad cannons and lascannons the only automated defenses mentioned, or are whatever other guns one has built into one's defenses also free (like the HBs on the bastions)? If the latter, I wonder what a guideline for a fair number of guns per feature would be.

HB on the bastions are also free. As are all the weapons built into forticfications. Aliens should feel free to substitute xenos weaponry onto xenos style structures. They mention using the Imperial buildings as a guildline for how many and what type of weapons to put on the fortifications.

An ork player putting big shootas on instead of HB's is good. Ork rockets might also be fine. zap guns probably not. Theirs a lot of leeway in the game, and it's open to abuse by abusive gamers, and will be fun for people looking for a fun game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Agreed, I think most of the folks worried about this are underestimating the value of difficult terrain and minefields surrounding your outposts/forts. I think that unless there is something about the preliminary bombardment removing terrain features its unlikely to occur very often (unless the defender makes a mistake).

Minefields aren't really a 'terrain feature'. If there's too much difficult terrain all over the board to make the game worth playing, you don't need preliminary bombardment to remove it. Just look at your opponent and say "Look you cheesy git, dump about half that crap off the table or I'm walking away". Don't play games if the other guy puts so much down on the table that it's not playable.

mikhaila wrote:
Minefields aren't really a 'terrain feature'. If there's too much difficult terrain all over the board to make the game worth playing, you don't need preliminary bombardment to remove it. Just look at your opponent and say "Look you cheesy git, dump about half that crap off the table or I'm walking away". Don't play games if the other guy puts so much down on the table that it's not playable.

Really? I guess I don't find it unreasonable for someone's defensive structures being setup in such a way as to deny easy assaults by drop troops and the like (mind you I don't mean every inch of nearby open ground covered) but certainly any unit choosing to strike close enough to charge ought to be taking a risk with it.

Jack

I got to flip thru the store copy at my LGS. While I found Apoc kinda meh. I really think I will like Planetstrike. The book, and rules look really cool. I have not been so fired up for awhile to build some terrain.

Not sure if this has been said, but the landing pad gives all models on it a 4+ INVULNERABLE if the sides are deployed up. (built in force bubble) or if the sides are down vehicles that end their move on it can still disembark troops even if they moved more than 12"

I think it bears mentioning as we discussed at your place, daemons should NOT be able to charge when they show up as none of them have the deepstrike special rule.

I can't wait to start playing though.

^I'd disagree with that statement, in the codex under the daemon special rule it states they always enter via deepstrike, have fearless and an invulnerable save.

If daemons don't have deepstrike then how the frack have they been deploying so close to the enemy over the last few months?

Planet Strikes says:
"Attacking units with the Deep Strike special rule in their unit entry may assault the turn they enter play"

From Codex Chaos Daemons:

Daemon: This special rule...includes the following four special rules:

Fealess...
Invulnerable...
Daemonic Rivalry....
Daemonic Assault..long description that includes the line " using the deep strike rules".

So Daemons do not have the Deep Strike rule in their unit entry. They have a special rule, that includes 4 other special rules, one of which describes their deployment that uses the Deep Strike special rule.

Whether or not they mean't to word it that way, and exclude daemons and jumptroops from assaulting, I have no clue. I figure my group will play it a couple of different ways and see how it goes.

Right, enter via deepstrike is not the same thing as having the Deepstrike rule in the unit entry.

Which would make Demons in PlanteStrike utterly pointless. On either side.

mikhaila wrote:Planet Strikes says:
"Attacking units with the Deep Strike special rule in their unit entry may assault the turn they enter play"

From Codex Chaos Daemons:

Daemon: This special rule...includes the following four special rules:

Fealess...
Invulnerable...
Daemonic Rivalry....
Daemonic Assault..long description that includes the line " using the deep strike rules".

So Daemons do not have the Deep Strike rule in their unit entry. They have a special rule, that includes 4 other special rules, one of which describes their deployment that uses the Deep Strike special rule.

Whether or not they mean't to word it that way, and exclude daemons and jumptroops from assaulting, I have no clue. I figure my group will play it a couple of different ways and see how it goes.

My God, and your gaming group would abide by this? Get a new group.

Daemons don't Deep Strike normally. Or are you intending to grant the arrive & assault bonus to everything that is somewhat similar (Immortals won't suck?)

Yeah I think anyone who tries to tell a Daemon player that he can't assault when he lands is just going to get a very sore jaw for his troubles.

Anyway, I want this book more than anything.

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:

mikhaila wrote:Planet Strikes says:
"Attacking units with the Deep Strike special rule in their unit entry may assault the turn they enter play"

From Codex Chaos Daemons:

Daemon: This special rule...includes the following four special rules:

Fealess...
Invulnerable...
Daemonic Rivalry....
Daemonic Assault..long description that includes the line " using the deep strike rules".

So Daemons do not have the Deep Strike rule in their unit entry. They have a special rule, that includes 4 other special rules, one of which describes their deployment that uses the Deep Strike special rule.

Whether or not they mean't to word it that way, and exclude daemons and jumptroops from assaulting, I have no clue. I figure my group will play it a couple of different ways and see how it goes.

My God, and your gaming group would abide by this? Get a new group.

Reading is fundamental, notice the last sentence. [b]Whether or not they mean't to word it that way, and exclude daemons and jumptroops from assaulting, I have no clue. I figure my group will play it a couple of different ways and see how it goes. Using very small words: My..Group..will..play..this..both..ways.., and.. see..how..things...work. I expect that we won't see an FAQ of any official nature on this. Rather than argue the piss out of it, moan about the rule, and not play game, we'll play some one way, some another, and see what seems to work better and is more fun. At that point, if we're having fun, I could care less what anyone else thinks.

I spent 36 hours this weekend setting up and running games for people, so they'd have fun. Of course I'm going to piss them all off by making arbitrary decisions so they don't have any fun.

VermGho5t wrote:I await it! I think im going to have to eat dogfood all next month...

You know the thing about dogfood, It taste just like it smells...DELICIOUS!!!!

Somnicide wrote:I think it bears mentioning as we discussed at your place, daemons should NOT be able to charge when they show up as none of them have the deepstrike special rule.

I can't wait to start playing though.

I also disagree with this. If it were try then nothing in the SM codex could assault either (barring Vanguard) as even Terminators use the same wording as the Daemon codex for deep striking. Land Speeders are the only thing I can find that actually has the Deep Strike special rule in the SM codex. Really, how many units actually have the Deep Strike rule in their list of Special Rules? Most of the things that can deep strike don't have it as a Special Rule in their Special Rule list, but say they can use the Deep Strike rules to enter play.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Daemons don't Deep Strike normally. Or are you intending to grant the arrive & assault bonus to everything that is somewhat similar (Immortals won't suck?)

Well, if it mentions deep strike somewhere in the unit entry then yes, I would allow it. Consider I only play for fluff, and have not seen the new book. Normally I don't play people I don't know/ am not friends with, and I find it keeps down on situations where I have to argue rules or fall back on a RAW argument that leaves us both with a sour taste in our mouth.

mikhaila wrote:

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:

mikhaila wrote:Planet Strikes says:
"Attacking units with the Deep Strike special rule in their unit entry may assault the turn they enter play"

From Codex Chaos Daemons:

Daemon: This special rule...includes the following four special rules:

Fealess...
Invulnerable...
Daemonic Rivalry....
Daemonic Assault..long description that includes the line " using the deep strike rules".

So Daemons do not have the Deep Strike rule in their unit entry. They have a special rule, that includes 4 other special rules, one of which describes their deployment that uses the Deep Strike special rule.

Whether or not they mean't to word it that way, and exclude daemons and jumptroops from assaulting, I have no clue. I figure my group will play it a couple of different ways and see how it goes.

My God, and your gaming group would abide by this? Get a new group.

Reading is fundamental, notice the last sentence. [b]Whether or not they mean't to word it that way, and exclude daemons and jumptroops from assaulting, I have no clue. I figure my group will play it a couple of different ways and see how it goes. Using very small words: My..Group..will..play..this..both..ways.., and.. see..how..things...work. I expect that we won't see an FAQ of any official nature on this. Rather than argue the piss out of it, moan about the rule, and not play game, we'll play some one way, some another, and see what seems to work better and is more fun. At that point, if we're having fun, I could care less what anyone else thinks.

I spent 36 hours this weekend setting up and running games for people, so they'd have fun. Of course I'm going to piss them all off by making arbitrary decisions so they don't have any fun.

Besides insulting my literacy, re-read your post. I don't care if you spent the weekend building homes for the homeless, you posted a situation that has a very obvious solution and then insinuated you may actually play it in the way that would be detrimental to Daemon Players.

I figure my group will play it a couple of different ways and see how it goes.

Logically, this would mean that in a couple of different ways, one of which would be not allowing Daemons to assault, hence neutering them, and that if your group found the consensus to be using that outcome, you would do so. You failed to mention that you prefer playing for fun.

Using that logic drop pods are also essentially broken. They don't have the deepstrike rule they have drop pod assault. It also clearly states in the codex that you can't assault out of them the turn they arrive.

To quote Star Wars:

"Stay on target, stay on target!"

Lets sty focused here on Planetstrike, not the rules for deep strike, we have a forum for rules questions,

So are people now arguing that PlanetStrike intends for Drop Pods to Assault Infantry (despite lacking WS I & A)?

You don't assault with your drop pods? Sheesh! Hey guys, This guy doesn't assault with his drop pods!

Why would you want to take a drop pod for anything besides a Dreadnought in PS anyway? All infantry can deep strike for free, and most SM melee units (which you'd want to assault with instead of shoot) already have Deep Strike via teleport or jump packs.

Nostalgia and creating an iconic scene. Space Marine drop pod assaults are awesome and as many have said before, PS is just a scenario guideline, so pods are perfect and cinematic for the game.

There is some rule (which I have already forgotten) that modifies the leadership of enemies close to your drop pods that have landed.

swiped from the BOLS site.

reds8n wrote:swiped from the BOLS site.

48 stratagems!?! Nice!!!

Agamemnon2 wrote:

BrookM wrote:Why you even bother playing is a riddle to me captain pessimism.

Be that as it may, I'm still not wrong. It's elementary to design an army to take advantage of these rules. Assault terminators beam in to destroy whatever decimated units are left after the bombardment. Nigh impossible to kill, they can hold whatever objective needed with complete impunity.

Worlds smallest violin.

I checked out a copy at my local GW shop, and one strategem was meteor strike it si S10 AP1 I didn't get the range though.

I checked out a copy at my FLGS, it looks pretty interesting. I only had time to kind of skim through some of the stratagems. One interesting one is Teleport Barrage which is an Imperial attacker stratagem. You target a unit inside a building with an armor value, anyone that passes their saving throw is merged with the wall and removed from the game. Planetstrike games will probably take a little more prep time and thought than your average pick-up game and will take a few games for people to find a nice balance of terrain and objectives. It will be a fantastic addition to narrative campaigns though.

IIRC it actually says you cannot assault from a vehicle that deepstrikes.

Redemption wrote:Why would you want to take a drop pod for anything besides a Dreadnought in PS anyway? All infantry can deep strike for free, and most SM melee units (which you'd want to assault with instead of shoot) already have Deep Strike via teleport or jump packs.

Also bear in mind that drop pods don't die when they touch units or impassable terrain. Were I to design a sneaky trap for deep strikers, I would put walls/bastions and troops in such a way as to not allow deep striking within 6" without risking mishap. Some walls with bastions without a 4" gap for terminators surrounding my juicy troops would be a good start.

This book is going to be nice. With ever supplement GW learns more and more about what to do and what not to do, so this will be a good one I hope.

I've still got pretty much all of those strategems memorized (or at least remember pretty much what they do...) feel free to PM a question about them.

You guys made a good point about lots of units not having the deep strike rule but essentially being able to deep strike (like models in termie armor) it seems reasonable that those units that could deep strike under their own power can assault.

I think the rule for planetstrike was worded so carefully to prohibit models from charging out of valkyries and drop pods, more than it was to stop assault marines from charging.

Why only PMs Shep?
As long as you just post stuff you remember it's not really a problem is it?

Anung Un Rama wrote:Why only PMs Shep?
As long as you just post stuff you remember it's not really a problem is it?

more to avoid clutter on the thread than for any super secret reason. there are 48 of them after all

edit: ok here are the ones i remember... feel free to help me fill these in with your own recollection.

ammunition store-a unit close to a marked bastion can re-roll to hit in shooting
blasphemous broadcast- CSM only, all units in buildings have to pass LD test or debark every turn
command centre-if a unit is within 2" of marker re-roll all reserves rolls
confusion reigns-swap the position of two defender units
crash and burn- an orbiting ship crashes to ground, gives you some basilisk shots
darken the skies- first turn is night fight
dawn assault- all turns are night fight... day breaks on a 4+ on following turns
death from above-SM only, units within 6" of a drop pod landing take morale test
deathstorm-
desperate last push- attacker gets an extra turn if you want, but after wards defender can make ANOTHER turn happen on a 4+
drop zone denial- attacker must choose new table edge for reserves
drop bastion- deep striking bastion in reserve is an objective, works like pod
drop pylons- deep striking version of force pylon
escape hatch- write down what bastion it leads to secretly, place it anywhere, its an access point for that bastion.
euclidian mindphase-necron only, one turn only, all enemy units count as being in difficult terrain for movement
force pylons- set up pylons, infantry can't pass between the gap in pylons unless they have grenades
fortified stronghold-ignore first wrecked or explodes result on a bastion
gremlin curse- 3 bastions worth of automated guns are BS1
ground observer- all blasts are twin-linked (might just be barrage or ordnance barrage) while ground obersver marker is alive, marker dies when enemy gets into base contact with it.
heavy duty drop- vehicles may deep strike, are stunned on a 1-2
hellish cacaphony- dark eldar only, all enemy -1 leadership per turn
hypertropic flora- tyranids only. can place D3 forests
imposing edifaces- must take leadership test to assault bastions
krak attack- every unit that enters from deep strike has chance to take some amount of strength 6 hits
laserburn- picka terrain piece. It gets destroyed along with some nearby things, Giant laser pointer draws line across terrain piece.
lasmaze- set up some length of red string, dangerous terrain for infantry
machine spirit- imperium only, automated weapons are BS3
mass drop-IG only. Entire reserves force deep strikes in same turn. Vehcles are stunned on a 1 or 2 infantry either takes pin test or wounds.
meteor strike- strength 10 ap 1 large blast
minefield- write down a spot, when a unit enters the spot, it takes dangerous terrain tests and place a big minefield marker under them.
phase-field generator-
planetary convocation- Pick one turn to be the important turn of the game. Enemy must re-roll all rolls of a 6 if you want him to. Decide for each roll.
planetquake bomb-
power generator- unit close to a certain bastion re-rolls to wound in the shooting phase
sacred ground- units close to a certain bastion are fearless
scorched skies-additional D6 firestorms
smoke shield- All units have a 5+ cover save for a turn, next turn they have a 6+ save as smoke dissipates
stasis bomb-
sunburst bombardment- tau only, all vehicles are BS1 for a turn, all tau units +1 BS for a turn
supply drop-
sustained assault-
teleport barrage- imperium only, pick a building, all models inside die on SUCCESSFUL armor save
terror tactics-
trench network- infantry units have a 5+ cover save for the firestorm
turreted stronghold- one bastion has a battlecannon
unstoppable waaagh- ork only, refresh your waaagh every time you destroy a bastion
void shield- a armor 12 void shield for a certain bastion
webway assault- eldar only, roll a number of dice equal to number of units held in reserve, THEN assign those dice to the units to determine which ones are arriving from reserve.

If you actually use a physically represented trench system, does the bonus increase? Like the Forge World Trenches. Are you allowed to use things other than the Aegis defense line and BAstions? Like you own constructions of those things. For instance the old cardstock bunkers and emplacements that used to be in the rulebook and online.

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:If you actually use a physically represented trench system, does the bonus increase? Like the Forge World Trenches. Are you allowed to use things other than the Aegis defense line and BAstions? Like you own constructions of those things. For instance the old cardstock bunkers and emplacements that used to be in the rulebook and online.

since the firestorm is all ordnance barrage, if you were in area terrain, or the majority of your models in a unit were partially obscured from the POV of the center of the blast, then you'd get a 4+. If you had an actual trench line, only direct hits over a straight line of infantry would not get cover.

You may use anything you want. there is no intrinsic requirement to use aegis defense lines and bastions.

Bastions essentially follow the rules for bunkers in the MRB, defense lines are souped up fortifications. (4+ cover save, but if you go to ground behind it, you get 2+ cover) They absolutely encourage your own consctructions in the book.

Bastions have built in heavy bolters, but they even go an say you don't have to have built in heavy bolters if you don't want, bastions also have the option to house one of the turreted defense weapons, which you may or may not choose to do. The terrain rules are very free form, as much or as little as you want, of whatever construction you want. Rules for GWs bastion are included as a guide.

What about if your opponent does bring the pain when it comes to terrain? Say you want to recreate a battle at one of the defense lines on Armageddon of Cadia, which where heavily fortified, does the book have a system to allow the attacker to counter this, so it is fair (more points for the attacker, extra strategems, and so on)

Shep, you memorized all of those? Was there some sort of mnemonic device employed because damn.

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:What about if your opponent does bring the pain when it comes to terrain? Say you want to recreate a battle at one of the defense lines on Armageddon of Cadia, which where heavily fortified, does the book have a system to allow the attacker to counter this, so it is fair (more points for the attacker, extra strategems, and so on)

I'm of the opinion that it does. Remember, for each bastion placed, the attacker gets an additional firestorm. Also, each bastion placed counts as another objective... with ties going to the attacker, the onus is definitely on the defender to bring enough models to counter the attacker.

The defender completely sets up the table before the attacker chooses his side. The attacker getting to choose ANY of the 4 sides after seeing the entire terrain set up is powerful. Then the defender completely deploys before the attacker declares what units will be deep striking, outflanking, or coming from the table edge. Then the attacker gets a ton of free basilisk shots, and first turn. Tons of first turn assaults will be happening just based on that set up procedure, and single attacker models become truly dangerous as they float around and threaten to not only contest but score loads of objectives.

Most terrain may slow down the attacker, but it also gives them cover, they don't have to decide if they are going to deep strike until they've seen the table. Plus once you start including stratagems in your games, there are some seriously nasty ones to spring on an opponent.

We'll have to see once people start playing games, but I don't see an advantage for attacker or defender yet. They both have tons of advantages, which look to cancel each other out.

Ok, well I already love it! I look forward to it everyday. As long as I can build huge castles worthy of the Imperial Fists, and my opponents cans till take them down like the Iron Warriors, I am one happy camper!

Thanks, Shep. I should start building markers sometime soon.

Ozymandias wrote:Shep, you memorized all of those? Was there some sort of mnemonic device employed because damn.

I'm not really that smart. I just tend to obsess about 40k quite a bit. Calms my brain down a bit.

Anung Un Rama wrote:Thanks, Shep. I should start building markers sometime soon.

I was a total fool when apocalypse came out and I refused to buy any of their splash releases. Once I realized I loved apocalypse, I kicked myself. $60 later I acquired a vortex grenade template on ebay. I vowed never to doubt GW expansions again

There are quite a few pieces of the terrain that represent stratagems and planetstrike specific terrain setups.

Bastions come with icarus lascannons, which you can use separate from the bastion itself, as well as the command centre piece, which can also be fielded outside of the bastion, aegis defense lines come with quad autocannons, which have nothing to do with the defense lines, their is a resin counter set that can be very useful for establishing the border of a minefield, and for ammunition stores, the blastscape set is almost mandatory (unless you convert your own) if you are going to take the 'falling spaceship' stratagem as those pieces molded into it represent the ship debris (which becomes difficult and dangerous much like a wrecked vehicle)

Lots of the stratagems aren't covered for terrain building, which will make for tons of fun, and many of them don't need counters. I think for the most part, planetstrike will be less intensive for terrain than cities of death is. but the more terrain you have, the more and different variations you can bring to games. Cities of death didn't really scale like that. Alpha and Gamma were clearly intended as entry level games as you got your building collection together, with omega being 'the only way to fly'. I think both light terrain and dense terrain, from 1 objective to 11 objectives will be fun ways to play planetstrike.

Looks intresting. I can see my guardsmen coming to hold the line in depth and die in the mass's befitting the title of grunt.

loads of scope for counter assaults to idiots who deep strike and land infront of 100's of lasguns

drop zone denial- attacker must choose new table edge for reserves

Well that's probably going to be the first strategem taken by every Defender. Stack up your defenses against one table edge, and then force your opponent to not choose the table edge to your rear.

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:Ok, well I already love it! I look forward to it everyday. As long as I can build huge castles worthy of the Imperial Fists, and my opponents cans till take them down like the Iron Warriors, I am one happy camper!

Just wait until an IW player makes a little cage for you to die in...

Ah, but wont that make it even more thematic! Win or lose its the story in the end.

I actually might try an 'Iron Cage' style battle. Let my Iron Warriors friend set up the most devious defense he can possibly imagine, and combine it with some of the other supplements to recreate the Iron Warriors outflanking the Fists on a massive scale. Yes, I can see it now......

Shep wrote:
I was a total fool when apocalypse came out and I refused to buy any of their splash releases. Once I realized I loved apocalypse, I kicked myself. $60 later I acquired a vortex grenade template on ebay. I vowed never to doubt GW expansions again

I don't know if your local store has told you but:
The new craters and the bombs and boobie traps were a single print run, so once they are out they are out.

The Imperial Strongpoint (the 2 bastions and 3 defense lines) supposedly will last about 2 months. At least that's what GW is shooting for. So I don't expect them to be around for very long.

I think the morale of the story is if you want it better get it quick for those 3 sets.

Marshal2Crusaders wrote:Ah, but wont that make it even more thematic! Win or lose its the story in the end.

I actually might try an 'Iron Cage' style battle. Let my Iron Warriors friend set up the most devious defense he can possibly imagine, and combine it with some of the other supplements to recreate the Iron Warriors outflanking the Fists on a massive scale. Yes, I can see it now......

Precisely the point. Not that you couldn't do it before via house rules, but GW makes it easier and more flexible with the new rules.

If you and your IW buddy do this, be sure to post a batrep to share!

So I get to set up the entire tables terrain? And the opponent is probably planning to deep strike everything?

euclidian mindphase-necron only, all difficult terrain is dangerous

JUNGLE TABLE feth YEAH rumble in the jungle time. They'll never even get to touch my troops.

Warmaster wrote:

Shep wrote:
I was a total fool when apocalypse came out and I refused to buy any of their splash releases. Once I realized I loved apocalypse, I kicked myself. $60 later I acquired a vortex grenade template on ebay. I vowed never to doubt GW expansions again

I don't know if your local store has told you but:
The new craters and the bombs and boobie traps were a single print run, so once they are out they are out.

The Imperial Strongpoint (the 2 bastions and 3 defense lines) supposedly will last about 2 months. At least that's what GW is shooting for. So I don't expect them to be around for very long.
.

I am doubting that they will last for two months. This is based on the forcasting that has been done in the last 6 months. The amount of models allocated to trade sales in the US has been eaten up very quickly on several items. I order now to have what I want for at least a months worth of sales, on the first order. Give your FLGS your pre-orders, or take your chances.

I was a little disappointed that there were not to many Race Specific Stratagems for Eldar although Escape Portal could be WebWay etc. etc..


It all kind of comes down to that what you make it. It's all good.

Isn't there only 1 race-specific strategum per race?

Lots of general, not a lot of race specific. Mostly 1 each, but humans get a couple more. Easy thing to add on via a PDF on the website like they have been doing for APOC.

Hold on, 'humans' are not a race in 40K.

Is it one strategem per Codex, or are there multiple Guard, Marine or even 'Imperium' ones?

@ShumaGorath i dont think you get to set up forests n such i just think you get to set up buildings cause then the Nid specific stratagem would be a waste getting to place D3 forests. all of the race specific strategems are attack based i think.

and all in all that strategem i think blows compared to some of the other ones like the sunburst thing from tau or the cacaphony from the dark eldar


Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C there was an imperium stratagem, it was called machine spirit or something it gives all imperial races auto turrets BS 3 rather than 2

Hmmm... I like that MS one. I have been hard at work today envisioning all the nasty defenses I will be building .

If you really want to be dirty with the defenses look up star forts they were created way back in the colonial days i think but they were the best fort design ever, dont know if it is applicable to 40k though

and I beleive that there can only be a certain amount of automated guns but manned guns might be unlimited. I am not sure I have not seen the book as of yet but that would make sense to me.

Star Forts were really intense. The fortress from Storm of Iron is supposed to be like that. I can see the principles applying in real life as well as the normal 'real life with D6' filter, that happens in defenses in 40K. You sir, may have justs given me another idea! I love this thread, I am going to need another shipment of blue foam for sure.

In Empire Total War, I wont assault one without at least one full banner army dedicated as an artillery corps.

SHHHHH Slop27, you're giving away our secrets! No more. just say this "OH NO! Attackers deepstriking, I'm so scared! Whatever will I do?" A trap doesn't work if the attacker sees it coming!

I stand ready to defend my fortress for the emperor!!

A friend of mine has preped a very sexy 1500pt space marine salamandar assault army tooled for planetstrike, complete with drop pods and termies. It's gunna be interesting watching those crazy dudes charging my line of tanks

My friend is prepping her Guard force for assaults.

POW!

None of you saw that one coming.

BrookM wrote:My friend is prepping her Guard force for assaults.

POW!

None of you saw that one coming.

IG are gunna attack stuff in planetstrike? I didn't know they have the choices to.. unless they like fielding something along the lines of 18 vendetta gunships for lascannon spam ;p

Have been seeing this floating around the interwebz (no doubt leaked by GW, clever they):


That is 48 stratagems!!!

Six mission mini-campaigns!!!

H.B.M.C. wrote:Hold on, 'humans' are not a race in 40K.

Is it one strategem per Codex, or are there multiple Guard, Marine or even 'Imperium' ones?

You mean they aren't an army list. Lot's of humans in 40k. Some are augmented in Power Armor. Some run around in flak. Some have breasts and are in power armor. Others form up gangs of whatever they can get and love saying "HA, No one expects me to show up!"

Marines got more than 1, I think guard got 2, most got 1.

That dark eldar one is incredibly powerful jesus.

Shep wrote:mass drop-IG only. Entire reserves force deep strikes in same turn. Vehcles are stunned on a 1 or 2 infantry either takes pin test or wounds.

Man, I'd love to see a batrep with some good pictures when this one's played.

I can't wait to defend and attack with IG

Deepstriking entire platoons on top of the enemy, while tanks roll up for support, it's going to be awesome

The Guard attack planets the same way they fight a war on the ground. They throw bodies at it, until they pile up and the Space Marines can walk down from Orbit. Then the Guard come in after the Space Marines are done and build new defenses to be the defenders in the next scenario.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Hold on, 'humans' are not a race in 40K.

Is it one strategem per Codex, or are there multiple Guard, Marine or even 'Imperium' ones?

Space Marines and Guard get 2 or 3 each. Most other races get just 1. (Lots of general ones though)

poor daemons. Didn't see any for us :(

Otherwise can't wait, I think were going to have some really really fun games

I want to know more about Drop-Bastion. As in, can I drop down a building with troops inside? If so, awesome.

How would you rank the armies in terms of their inherent advantage in either attacking or defending situations? Obviously the numerous armies (orks, guard) are able to hold more objectives, but you're the one choosing the number of objectives anyway.

I haven't played the current edition of 40k yet... So I'm not sure what to think of this.

Since the whole game system is objective based with the tie going to the attacker I'd say the most valueble choices in the game will inherently have two qualitys.

1: The ability to do grievous damage in close combat.
2: The ability to survive shooting and charges.

Drake_Marcus wrote:How would you rank the armies in terms of their inherent advantage in either attacking or defending situations? Obviously the numerous armies (orks, guard) are able to hold more objectives, but you're the one choosing the number of objectives anyway.

I think that with some ingenuity, anyone can be a good attacker or defender. Certainly anyone can be a good defender. If you aren't that good at holding on to objectives, just place one, or if you aren't that good at repelling a mass assault, place 11 objectives. It's really up to the defender to invent an overall strategy. Somnicide and I spent a little time talking about demons. And how they'll be a real nasty defender. They are held in reserve, are guaranteed to go second (which is a big advantage) and can set up a table completely devoid of terrain. No impassible terrain to mishap on, no difficult terrain to slow down assaults and to take dangerous terrain checks on, and full awareness of where an opponent plans to take his models. Rather than being lined up to repel an attack, demons seem to draw a force in with a lure, and then pounce. Demons also get half of their units on 1 auotmatically but the other half come in on a 3+ on turn one also. This means that combinations like fateweaver or skarbrand are even easier to set up. dark eldar defenders can really take advantage of the defender reserves rolls as well. Keeping warriors with dark lances on the defense lines and placing one or more escape hatches in dangerous places, connecting a SICK CC unit to a rear charge, and then encircling attackers with units in raiders in reserve seems scary. Obviously hellish cacaphony based attacks are going to be brutal. But a clever dark eldar player can set up so many nasty defenses, that it will be a tough fight to attack as well.

As far as unlikely attackers, tau are going to have a somewhat tough time, but they will have a field day with opening up bastions, once the soft units inside the bastion are exposed, they can be taken out. Unfortunately getting close to the bastions is going to be dangerous work, they might need to score with masses of piranhas rather than infantry models. Kroot with kroot hounds could also assault positions, but they can be countered well. IG would have been in real trouble without the invention of the veteran unit and the valkyrie. An IG veteran armored fist company or veteran airborne company can wreck bastions, blow away infantry shielding bastions, and get models into base to base rather convincingly.

SsevenN wrote:Since the whole game system is objective based with the tie going to the attacker I'd say the most valueble choices in the game will inherently have two qualitys.

1: The ability to do grievous damage in close combat.
2: The ability to survive shooting and charges.

I'd add that opening up vehicles, especially armor 14 vehicles will be an important factor. Trying to 'score' a bastion with an infantry unit, as a 4 flamer command squad (or 15 flamer burna unit) just sits there and cooks your models won't be fun. You'll need to pop that thing open. transport based attackers will be powerful and common too. So defenders will need to be able to pop armor as well.

As far as unlikely attackers, tau are going to have a somewhat tough time

I seriously don't think so. Extreme suit spam tactics would work wonders here with 6-7 seperate crisis suits each jumping around causing lots of damage (for small games ;3)... Don't forget fast attack with pathfinders... the amount of markerlights you could fit.....

And you don't have to take troops as well, so you can shift out fire warriors and kroot for the tau more tasty elite and heavy options.

Also something different... would stormtroopers be actualy USEFUL in planetstrike games? close range deep striking and rapid firing ap 3 shots would be a rather nice way of "pushing" those damn power armor users off their objectives >.>

Superscope wrote:Also something different... would stormtroopers be actualy USEFUL in planetstrike games? close range deep striking and rapid firing ap 3 shots would be a rather nice way of "pushing" those damn power armor users off their objectives >.>

16 points each and non-scoring.

So no. They wouldn't be.

All units are scoring units in Planetstrike. There are no non-scoring units.

BrassScorpion wrote:All units are scoring units in Planetstrike. There are no non-scoring units.

Oh, in that case I'll spend 16 points on 3 Guardsmen rather than on 1 Stormtrooper.

FYI, the Battle Bunker HQ store in Maryland now has a preview copy of the Planetstrike book. So does the Annapolis, MD GW store. These stores also have some of the new terrain models on display.

Also, I got my Advance Ordered Temple of Skulls today. I've posted pictures of the components with a brief review on Bell Of Lost Souls.

Superscope wrote:

Also something different... would stormtroopers be actualy USEFUL in planetstrike games? close range deep striking and rapid firing ap 3 shots would be a rather nice way of "pushing" those damn power armor users off their objectives >.>

Plus they can deepstrike, fire their pistols and then assault.

Wow I'm liking all these stratagems.

Yeah I finally got to sit down with it today and its pretty excellent.


The Campain and what missions you go through seem like a lot of fun.


Planetquake the last mission is incredible in epic scope.

A couple of quick thoughts regarding armies, etc.

Eldar will be especially scary with an autarch - 2+ to enter the battle - mech may make a comeback. Foot sloggers will hurt more thoug.

Dark Eldar- I believe from memory they have a racial rule saying that they are ALWAYS the attackers in scenarios which have an attacker and a defender? Since 4th/5th took away attacker/defender scenarios, it hasn't been used, but the Codex rule would apply here? If so, you could build the nastiest assault armies. Also, those raider wargear such as scaling nets would be extremely useful assaulting buildings. Not to mention the pinning effects of terrorfexes/horrofexes with that -ld stratagem. -8 ld tests for pinning, anyone?


SM/DH - Anyone think about the possibility of 2 units of GK Terminators deep striking with fleet? That would chew off a large chunk of any enemy force.

Orks - I reckon these guys could well be the best defenders in some ways, especially if they chose to only have 1 or 2 objectives - large units to soak up bombardments, ability to choke assaults, manouverable on the WAAAUGH to counter thrusts, and if they are in cover, all those lovely boys attacking at the same initiative as eldar/marines?

Guard - A smart Guard player would build either a zig zag line of smaller fortresses, or diamond forts in the centre of the table, with armor spaces in between them. This gives units inside supporting fire, allows heavy weapons to get full range, and means if one fort is assaulted and taken down, the enemy won't be able to immediately run into the next section, and will be stranded to get shot up.

Assaulting would be really fun - either with valks/transports, or hordes, doesn't matter - though if on foot, flamers/demo charges/melta will be huge winners here. Oh, and this would be one of the few times a deathstrike would be useful - enemy fortress of doom in your way? Not any more.

SM - Combat squads for the win here - half to stay back with a heavy weapon for shooting, the other half either on foot or in a rhino (meh) or razorback (better) to assault with power sword/fist sergeant and a flamer. Assault marines could be a really useful counter assault unit here - especially if the enemy has one or two outlier units. Redeemers would come into their own - it could even be worth leaving a couple of objectives open, letting the enemy take them and bunch up, before unloading on them. And funnily enough, regular terminators would do rather well here with cyclones and bolters for horde work.

Daemons - perfect defenders - starting off of the table to lose chance of dying to bombardment. Or does the other rule force them to start on the table?

Tau - mobility is the key, especially as the defender, as wierd as it sounds, as otherwise you will get chopped up even quicker by all drop armies.

Nids - best attackers by far - all this is for them is the return of the Seeding Swarm, minus the respawning units.

Pretty good defenders too - so many mobile assault units, they can shift positions to wipe out a couple of scattering deep strikers or flankers really quickly, and take the game away from the enemy - though redeemers or hellhounds/varients would be their worst enemies.

Necrons - not so great here on the attack - their assault has always been lackluster, though I guess you could take a lot of flayed ones at the expense of immortals, oh, and your wallet. But on the attack, at least you won't have to worry about taking destroyers or scarabs - take both! Actually, that could be a game winner - scarabs to kill GEQ's quickly, destroyers deep striking against rear armor AV14/anti MEQ.

WH - wild cards. Could either attack or defend reasonably well, but short range could be a killer on assault if they get it wrong. They may have to go mech to survive on the attack?

Chaos - strangely powerful here - their wide range of troops will be useful, lack of scaling in higher points won't hurt as much as the game will be a bit more scattered about, rather than concentrated.

Again, all this is only prelim stuff, perceptions will probably change with more experience with Planetstrike.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Superscope wrote:Also something different... would stormtroopers be actualy USEFUL in planetstrike games? close range deep striking and rapid firing ap 3 shots would be a rather nice way of "pushing" those damn power armor users off their objectives >.>

16 points each and non-scoring.

So no. They wouldn't be.

Huh, why don't you Write your codex review, and then people will already know this stuff.

Also, I've been wondering, what single image got your vote in the Gallery? Was it a random one, or did you pick what you considered to be the absolute best and give it your vote?

Shep wrote:

Drake_Marcus wrote:How would you rank the armies in terms of their inherent advantage in either attacking or defending situations? Obviously the numerous armies (orks, guard) are able to hold more objectives, but you're the one choosing the number of objectives anyway.

I think that with some ingenuity, anyone can be a good attacker or defender. Certainly anyone can be a good defender. If you aren't that good at holding on to objectives, just place one, or if you aren't that good at repelling a mass assault, place 11 objectives. It's really up to the defender to invent an overall strategy. Somnicide and I spent a little time talking about demons. And how they'll be a real nasty defender. They are held in reserve, are guaranteed to go second (which is a big advantage) and can set up a table completely devoid of terrain. No impassible terrain to mishap on, no difficult terrain to slow down assaults and to take dangerous terrain checks on, and full awareness of where an opponent plans to take his models. Rather than being lined up to repel an attack, demons seem to draw a force in with a lure, and then pounce. Demons also get half of their units on 1 auotmatically but the other half come in on a 3+ on turn one also. This means that combinations like fateweaver or skarbrand are even easier to set up. dark eldar defenders can really take advantage of the defender reserves rolls as well. Keeping warriors with dark lances on the defense lines and placing one or more escape hatches in dangerous places, connecting a SICK CC unit to a rear charge, and then encircling attackers with units in raiders in reserve seems scary. Obviously hellish cacaphony based attacks are going to be brutal. But a clever dark eldar player can set up so many nasty defenses, that it will be a tough fight to attack as well.

As far as unlikely attackers, tau are going to have a somewhat tough time, but they will have a field day with opening up bastions, once the soft units inside the bastion are exposed, they can be taken out. Unfortunately getting close to the bastions is going to be dangerous work, they might need to score with masses of piranhas rather than infantry models. Kroot with kroot hounds could also assault positions, but they can be countered well. IG would have been in real trouble without the invention of the veteran unit and the valkyrie. An IG veteran armored fist company or veteran airborne company can wreck bastions, blow away infantry shielding bastions, and get models into base to base rather convincingly.

Yeah, looking at the rules I figured it'd be tough for my Tau. I'm sure my Salamanders will be fine, but then again when aren't marines at least 'fine'?

Any thoughts on what terrain combinations and set-ups would help make Tau defenders more competitive? I'm thinking my piles and piles of Kroot will be useful as counter-attackers here. I've got 4 Krootox, 10 Kroothounds and at least 60 Kroot plus their leaders.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

captain.gordino wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Superscope wrote:Also something different... would stormtroopers be actualy USEFUL in planetstrike games? close range deep striking and rapid firing ap 3 shots would be a rather nice way of "pushing" those damn power armor users off their objectives >.>

16 points each and non-scoring.

So no. They wouldn't be.

Huh, why don't you Write your codex review, and then people will already know this stuff.

Also, I've been wondering, what single image got your vote in the Gallery? Was it a random one, or did you pick what you considered to be the absolute best and give it your vote?

Oh this will end well.

Drake_Marcus wrote:

captain.gordino wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Superscope wrote:Also something different... would stormtroopers be actualy USEFUL in planetstrike games? close range deep striking and rapid firing ap 3 shots would be a rather nice way of "pushing" those damn power armor users off their objectives >.>

16 points each and non-scoring.

So no. They wouldn't be.

Huh, why don't you Write your codex review, and then people will already know this stuff.

Also, I've been wondering, what single image got your vote in the Gallery? Was it a random one, or did you pick what you considered to be the absolute best and give it your vote?

Oh this will end well.

I don't care. I've got popcorn and will watch it to the bitter end!

Drake_Marcus wrote:Any thoughts on what terrain combinations and set-ups would help make Tau defenders more competitive? I'm thinking my piles and piles of Kroot will be useful as counter-attackers here. I've got 4 Krootox, 10 Kroothounds and at least 60 Kroot plus their leaders.

Yeah. Every bastion you set up has a forest surrounding it. Then a kroot unit in the forest physically blocking meltaguns and chainfists from getting close to the bastion. Load the bastion up with 3 broadsides with targeting arrays, or 8 pathfinders. And then proceed to shoot people apart.

I think tau could cover a 5 bastion defense pretty well.

4 broadside units, 1 pathfinder unit, 5 kroot units, 1 fire warrior unit and 1 crisis commander could be shoehorned into 1750(which is an arbitrary size, just the one I'm used to... planetstrike can be played from 1500-2500)

Take 5 quad autocannons and man them with kroot (1 with the HQ). Place no other terrain besides the bastions and forests.

The quad autocannons and bastion heavy bolters can thin down hordes and kroot can countercharge, and pathfinders/broadsides can pop any mechanized assaults.

should be fun to play and a tough nut to crack.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Drake_Marcus wrote:

captain.gordino wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Superscope wrote:Also something different... would stormtroopers be actualy USEFUL in planetstrike games? close range deep striking and rapid firing ap 3 shots would be a rather nice way of "pushing" those damn power armor users off their objectives >.>

16 points each and non-scoring.

So no. They wouldn't be.

Huh, why don't you Write your codex review, and then people will already know this stuff.

Also, I've been wondering, what single image got your vote in the Gallery? Was it a random one, or did you pick what you considered to be the absolute best and give it your vote?

Oh this will end well.

I don't care. I've got popcorn and will watch it to the bitter end!

QFT

captain.gordino wrote:Huh, why don't you Write your codex review, and then people will already know this stuff.

Love to, but moving into a new apartment is more important than toy soldiers. So is securing a new internet connection and having the time to do it. Apologies that my life doesn't fit to your needs.

captain.gordino wrote:Also, I've been wondering, what single image got your vote in the Gallery? Was it a random one, or did you pick what you considered to be the absolute best and give it your vote?

Don't know. Can't remember. Don't care.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Love to, but moving into a new apartment is more important than toy soldiers. So is securing a new internet connection and having the time to do it. Apologies that my life doesn't fit to your needs.

Apology accepted. If you were moving into an apartment in my hemisphere, I'd offer to help, but tickets to Aussie Land are expensive right now.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Don't know. Can't remember. Don't care.

Dang.

Finish up your popcorn everyone, sorry the show wasn't more interesting.