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Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 02:09:52


Post by: shadowfox1112


This is a little topic that came up between a couple of my friends and I. I checked the forums to make sure this hasn't been posted before, sorry if it has and i missed it.

Five space marines vs five spartans
one marine has a power sword and bolt pistol
two just have bolters
one has a plasma gun
and one has a heavy bolter.

vs five spartans
one with an energy sword and magnum
two with assault rifles
one with a plasma rifle
and one with a machine gun turret

Personnally i'm in favor of the space marines (And not just because i play them lol)
just found this pic online


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 05:18:11


Post by: ph34r


It isn't even close. The technology levels are so far apart it isn't funny. A spartan can be killed by 2 clips from a standard SMG. That would not even dent a space marine's armor. One bolter shot is about the equivalent of a brute shot, which only takes 3 shots to kill a spartan.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 05:44:25


Post by: RatherFatRat


God, I thought i'd escape the filthy plague that is halo from that other forum.

Space marines would simply nail spartans to the ground, hands down. And probably smash in their faces for good measure.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 06:09:46


Post by: Mad Rabbit


Spartans are essentially still human, just with the cool armor.
Space Marines are a head taller, better armed, better armored, stronger, tougher and not afraid of anything.

No contest. Space marines would drop their guns out of pity and tear off the Spartans' arms. Then maybe use them as clubs to put the poor Spartans down.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 06:13:32


Post by: LiterateWolf


Spartans are wannbe Space Marines. Astartes all the way.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 06:30:29


Post by: Canonness Rory


ph34r wrote: A spartan can be killed by 2 clips from a standard SMG.

MAGAZINE.
SAY IT WITH ME.
MAG-A-ZINE.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 06:30:54


Post by: Dakkadood


Space Marines can beat them barehanded with little effort.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 07:19:44


Post by: RustyKnight


shadowfox1112 wrote:This is a little topic that came up between a couple of my friends and I. I checked the forums to make sure this hasn't been posted before, sorry if it has and i missed it.
Well, on these forums, you're bound to get an overwhelming cry of "SM ROOL!". This usedto pop up over on the WoW forums, there it tended to favor the Spartan. The problem is, a lot of voters do not really understand one or either of the contestants,
shadowfox1112 wrote:
Five space marines vs five spartans
one marine has a power sword and bolt pistol
two just have bolters
one has a plasma gun
and one has a heavy bolter.

vs five spartans
one with an energy sword and magnum
two with assault rifles
one with a plasma rifle
and one with a machine gun turret

Okay, Power Sword versus Energy Sword is roughly equal, although Bolt Pistol versus Magnum is overwhelmingly in favor of the hand cannon. Bolter versus Assault Rifle is not fair for the Assault Rifle, Bolter is just plain better. Plasma Gun versus Plasma Rifle is just ridonkulous. The Plasma Rifle is a standard issue submachine gun for the Covenant; it's a Pulse Carbine (equivalent). Heavy Bolter versus Machine Gun turret, I'd prolly go for the fist sized explosive rounds. Just based on weapons, the Space Marines seem to have an edge.

Armor is an interesting contest. The Astartes has a lot more of it (volume), and their armor is very, very tough physically. The Spartan has less volume of armor, although his armor is very heavy (Spartan 113 is about half a ton in his armor, how much does a standard SM weigh in armor?). The Spartan also has energy shielding to help mitigate incoming fire, and his shields can regenerate. Here, I'm not entirely sure which one to take as the victor. Frankly, I'm leaning towards the Spartan, due to regeneration.

Physical attributes are difficult to judge. Both have undergone massive amounts of physical alterations to increase their speed, strength, and toughness. I'm leaning towards a tie here.

Tactics and training, I'm going Spartan all the way. They're all capable leaders and have undergone surgery to increase their mental capabilities. Even the spartans that were "washed out" were retained by the UNSC to be advisors and scientists. If I recall correctly, a paper written by one of the Spartan wash-outs is critical in realizing that the Covenant were attacking Reach.

Unfortunately, this entire discussion is futile. Both are protagonists designed to LOLROFLSTOMP aything in their way.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 07:27:33


Post by: Mad Rabbit


@ RustyKnight
You seem to have established that the Space Marines have better weapons across the board, then decided that Spartans win anyway.
In terms of size and strength there is no comparison. Space Marines have two hearts, thicker skulls and a breastplate like ribcage.
The regenerating energy shield is the Spartan's only real defense, and one solid punch knocks that out. It takes much more to kill a space marine.
IMO Spartans are more on par with Stormtroopers than marines in terms of combat ability.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 07:39:13


Post by: Emperors Faithful


Space Marines vs Halo in close combat would be FUNNY.
A space marine could get his arm lopped off by a power thingy, but he would simply ignore the pain, pick up his arm, and beat Spartan 117 to death with it.

Has anybody seen Red vs Blue? It would be like the situation where Tex (black) beat someone to death with their own skull (How is physically possible!) (That's what he said...)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To be fair I would say that a spartan is more the equivelant of a human IN power armour (but I am including genetics and training)

Any the spartan shield would be like a 5+ refractor field or AT BEST a 4+ Rosarius.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 07:42:36


Post by: RustyKnight


Mad Rabbit wrote:@ RustyKnight
You seem to have established that the Space Marines have better weapons across the board
The bolter weapons are superior to the Spartans bullet weapons, but CC weapons wise they're about the same. The Plasma Gun and the Plasma Rifle are not equivalents. The Spartan has no quivalent to the Plasma Gun.

Mad Rabbit wrote:In terms of size and strength there is no comparison.
Not true. Spartans also have denser bones, and they have metal alloys mixed in if I recall correctly. The Spartan's also have increased muscle mass.

Mad Rabbit wrote:The regenerating energy shield is the Spartan's only real defense, and one solid punch knocks that out.
You mean in the game and only in the most recent one), it takes one punch to take down a Spartan's shield. In the books, Spartan shields are capable of taking quite a bit more physical abuse (course, Plasma Weapons also seem to take them down faster in the books).
Mad Rabbit wrote:The regenerating energy shield is the Spartan's only real defense, and one solid punch knocks that out.
Stormtroopers are more on par with ODST's. A Spartan would dismantle a stormtrooper.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 08:01:09


Post by: Emperors Faithful


Yep, a spartan is definitely a step above a stormtrooper.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 08:09:19


Post by: djphranq


Space Marines have my vote. MOAR SKULLS!


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 14:52:22


Post by: Cheese Elemental


Space Marines are eight feet tall, weigh over a ton in their armour, and are armed with .75 caliber (19.05mm) automatic rifles as standard. It's hardly a fair contest.

Read the Halo novels. Spartans get wounded all the time. John-117 had his shield depleted and his shoulder ripped open by a hunter's spines and Linda-058 almost died from being hit with a fuel rod gun.

Space Marines would shake injuries like that off and force-feed you your own balls.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 16:19:13


Post by: Deff Dread red Edition


Just to get it out of my system:

THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!
*kicks down well*

Yea marines would rip spartans to shreds.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 16:25:51


Post by: GoFenris


Spartans are poor man's Space Marines just as Space Marines are glorified and competent Star Wars Storm Troopers.

How about Clone Troopers vs. Space Marines?

(Actually, Clone Troopers strike me more as Kasrkins.)


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 17:53:53


Post by: karnaeya


Theres this thing called plot armour, The best armour designed by man. Only one team can have it.. You pick they win.

Though it has to be said that The guy with the baby skull fashioned to his chest plate would have my vote.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 17:59:12


Post by: krazynadechukr2


Woohoo another spartan vs space marine poll..............been done 2x before..................


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 18:37:01


Post by: Corpsman_of_Krieg


Spase Merhienz!!!!1 Hurr!!

Spartans are enhanced human soldiers that have great armor and weapons afforded to their exceptional tactical and combat prowess.

Space Marines are Metahumans that have transcended our definition of what it is to be Human, and have what is more accurately considered articulated tank armor and rocket-propelled grenade launchers afforded to their multiple decades (if not centuries) of combat experience.

One other thing to consider is that Spartans in the books are stacked. In the game, you can get thrashed by a couple of Grunts if you're careless. Same goes for Spess Mehrienz, who are so ridiculously powerful in the fluff it's not even funny, whereas in the tabletop game you've got a trooper that's still head and shoulder above most else, but is not at the herculean levels described by the stories. Essentially, we have 4 possible combinations:

Fluff Spartans vs (Fluff Marines)
(Fluff Spartans) vs Tabletop Marines
Game Spartans vs (Fluff Marines)
Game Spartans vs (Tabletop Marines)

My vote for the winner of each is parenthetically marked. Overall, I can't see 37,000+ years of technological advancement (though some of that was backward advancement thanks to the Age of Strife and all that crap) losing to some human in cool looking body armor who's been juicing.

CK


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 18:52:54


Post by: Lanceradvanced


*puzzles trying to figure out the practical diffrence between "enhanced humans" and "meta humans"* having only read Ghosts of Onyx, and been surprized that the Spartans were generally pre-teens*

Tactically I'd give it to the Space Marines, Stragetically I'd give it to the Spartans..


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/13 18:54:31


Post by: EzeKK


Space Marines. They carry an automatic grenade launcher. Two shots. Bye bye! Space marine armor deflects bullets with ease, the Spartans have SMG's and Battle rifles. Those are autoguns in all sense.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 07:20:54


Post by: Epsilon


The Space Marines would eat the Spartans. SM are just too tough and superiorly equipped.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 07:27:13


Post by: Emperors Faithful


Amen


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 07:46:06


Post by: Canonness Rory


Just for the sake of doing so, I am going to stat Spartans in 40k.
WS:4 BS:4 S:3(4) T:3 W:1 I:3 A:1 Ld:9 Sv4+
Squad: 6-10 Spartans

Equipment:
Assault Grenades

Battle Rifle
24" S:3 AP:6 Assault 2

Spartan Powered Armor
Spartan powered Armor grants the Spartan a 4+ Armor save, 6+ Invulnerable save (shield) and +1S

Single Close Combat Weapon

Options: One Spartan may be upgraded with a spartan laster at 20 points. The Spartan Laser has the following profile:
36" S8 AP1 Heavy 1

One Spartan may be upgraded to the Missile Pod at 15 points. The Missile Pod has the following Profile:
36" S7 AP4 Heavy 1, Blast

One Spartan May be Upgraded to the Pistol at 75 points. The Pistol has the following profile:
72" S10 AP1 Assault 5, Lance, Pinning, Melta.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 07:49:34


Post by: djphranq


That was awesome Rory! Spartan with a pistol please!


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 08:43:23


Post by: RustyKnight


Canonness Rory wrote:Just for the sake of doing so, I am going to stat Spartans in 40k.
WS:4 BS:4 S:3(4) T:3 W:1 I:3 A:1 Ld:9 Sv4+
Squad: 6-10 Spartans

Not even close. WS and BS are too low. Spartans are in fluff and in game capapble of putting a bullet exactly where they want it. They are very, very strong. Like pulling apart tanks with bare hands. Like single blow KO's strong. Spartan 113 (and he wasn't the strongest) as a teen took ouy four marines in hand to hand combat. Toughness wise, spartans are extremely tough. They have metal in their bones. They get shot and keep on going all the time. Wounds wise, spartans aren't going to stop after one wound. Initiative wise, Spartans are stupid fast. I'd prolly say they're faster than SM. Like bullet dodging fast. Like hmmm-is-he-going-to-punch-me-?-oh-I-guess-he-is-I'd-better-break-his-leg-before-he-does fast. Attack wise, nope. Save wise, I'd prolly give them a 3+/4+. The armor isn't unstoppable, but it still deflects a ton.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 08:43:45


Post by: unclehomefries


Lol Canonness has clearly played too much Halo 1. Also you forgot to add Sniper


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 08:53:46


Post by: lalabox


unclehomefries wrote:Lol Canonness has clearly played too much Halo 1. Also you forgot to add Sniper


Sniper would make it worse.

It would only wound on a 4+. And would only have one shot that couldn't move.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 10:26:54


Post by: Emperors Faithful


Sounds about right Canoness Rory, but probably a slightly higher initiative.

Marines can rip apart tanks with bare hands to.

I would say Spartan to be about AS strong as a Space Marine, but not as tough.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 10:42:20


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


RustyKnight wrote:
Not even close. WS and BS are too low. Spartans are in fluff and in game capapble of putting a bullet exactly where they want it. They are very, very strong. Like pulling apart tanks with bare hands. Like single blow KO's strong. Spartan 113 (and he wasn't the strongest) as a teen took ouy four marines in hand to hand combat. Toughness wise, spartans are extremely tough. They have metal in their bones. They get shot and keep on going all the time. Wounds wise, spartans aren't going to stop after one wound. Initiative wise, Spartans are stupid fast. I'd prolly say they're faster than SM. Like bullet dodging fast. Like hmmm-is-he-going-to-punch-me-?-oh-I-guess-he-is-I'd-better-break-his-leg-before-he-does fast. Attack wise, nope. Save wise, I'd prolly give them a 3+/4+. The armor isn't unstoppable, but it still deflects a ton.


Most of what you said goes the same for space marines.

Rip apart tank? Check
Put a bullet where they want it? Check
Faster than Humans? Check
Takes more than one round? Check

On the other hand I don't recall where in the books they mention metal being grafted into their bones.

Also it was Spartan One One Seven that took of the Marines and won. A Space Marine could probably take on more that four normal humans.

Any way I'd say that Spartans would probably be the equivalent of 4th Edition Space Marine Scouts, but give them a Six or Five plus invuln save on top of their four plus armour save.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 11:00:02


Post by: lalabox


Emperors Faithful wrote:Sounds about right Canoness Rory, but probably a slightly higher initiative.

Marines can rip apart tanks with bare hands to.

I would say Spartan to be about AS strong as a Space Marine, but not as tough.


Well, that's what their armor gives them. Also, bear in mind that while 40k statlines can't show it, that Space marines would be weaker and less tough (but not as weak and tough as s3t3). It's their armor that also helps them.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 11:02:35


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


Unless you factor in that Scouts are S/T4


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 11:22:20


Post by: The Defenestrator


I'd like to point out one interesting thing: the power levels portrayed by both games (40k and halo) are inaccurate:

-Master Chief is the best of the best, like a Chapter Master. He kills thousands of enemies throughout the trio of games, and dozens and dozens of vehicles as well.

-Space Marines are, by all accounts of the fluff, fairly heavily underpowered in the game vs. their fluff. How many of us have watched an army of 40-50 marines get destroyed by less than 200 orks? Some chapters (1000 marines) have held systems against millions of orks.

the defining rules aside, the fluff seems to indicate pretty strongly that space marines would come out on top. The REAL issue arises; could the spartan warriors be the predecessors to everyone's favorite screaming bald men?


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 11:30:33


Post by: Red_Lives


Here i know the hierarchy.

SM>Spartan

Spartan>Space Marine scout/initiate

If spartan had it stat line it would be

WS4 BS4 S3 T3(4) W1 I4 A1 LD9 SV 4+/(6+)

6+ inv to represent the shield. They are treated as Toughness 4 but use the value of 3 to check for instant death (as they do not have 2 hearts, and other severe genetic based physical augmentation)



Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 11:35:24


Post by: lalabox


BrotherStynier wrote:Unless you factor in that Scouts are S/T4


I'm saying that Space marines without armor would not be as tough or as strong as space marines with armor if the rules were more detailed or you were playing something such as Inquisitor. They are still closer to S/T4 than 3. But that is a large jump.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 11:39:52


Post by: n0t_u


So it's sphatuns vs spase marienz

I'm sure the Space Marines would win. Spartans have AIs and as they're seen as an abomination, if the Space Marines knew about it they would use their plot rage to basically puch the planet in half. Either that of the Ad Mech hears about it and a few Titans begin stomping around the place, I'm pretty sure the Inquisition would join in as well.

Now to just wait for a Tau vs Covenant thread >_>


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 11:47:37


Post by: Norade


Basically what I'm seeing here is a lot of blustering and no real numbers to back it up for either side. So I'm going to try and add some meat to this debate.

First of we must establish what can and can't be used as evidence for each side. For the Halo Spartans Bungie has said that the games on the highest difficulty setting are the sources we should use when dealing with the universe. The books would then come below that and can be used to fill in details, but would be superseded by the game where the two disagree. For the Space Marines the opposite is true, we have been told time and time again that tabletop marines have been toned down for the table top and that we should look at the books for our information. Thus in this case we would follow the fluff and ignore game play.

Now that being said we can find some data on the weapons used by both side now.

Standard Weapons:

Halo Spartans:

Assault Rifle: I'm going to use the information for an AK-47 here as it fits the heavy round type and accuracy of the aforementioned weapon rather well; that is unless anybody can gather better data. Thus the bullet fired will travel at 715 meters per second and deliver 2,054 joules of energy to the target, it has has a thirty-two round clip and can fire at a rate of approximately 660 rounds per minute.

Space Marines:

Bolter: This weapons is unique and unlike with the AK-47 we have little to go by for real life comparisons so we must turn to the books and see what feats they have done to determine what data to use for them. What we do know is that they commonly blow head sized holes in unarmored people and have depleted uranium tips to aid in penetration, they are fired in 4 round bursts, and based on the cross section sections seen in 'Imperial Armour Volume 2: Space Marines and Forces of the Inquisition 2nd edition' can hold between 10 and 25 grams of explosive. Using a high explosive such as ONC, the best we can currently produce, that would give us a value of between 113,000 - 283,000 joules per round and 452,00 and 1,132,000 joules for a full burst.

I would say we have a clear winner here, the bolter is 50 to 100 times stronger than the assault rifle and that is only a Space Marine's basic weapon. A heavy bolter is likely to have double to space to work with and thus able to fit in 8x the mass of explosive per shell making it about as nasty as some RPG-7 rounds.

I will do armor when I am not dead tired, however I feel that this simple weapons comparison will be enough to show that in a straight-up fight a Space marine would win.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 14:32:17


Post by: Lanceradvanced


Norade wrote: I will do armor when I am not dead tired, however I feel that this simple weapons comparison will be enough to show that in a straight-up fight a Space marine would win.


This is why I say Tactically the Space Marines win, stragetically the Spartans do.. Spartans "think outside the box" so to speak, tactially, where as the marines just drop in and start shooting according to the Tactica, Also, remember, that Spartans are trained to do something that Space Marines never do.. When confronted with an enemy with superior weaponry -KILL ONE AND TAKE HIS GUN-


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 14:41:14


Post by: The Dreadnote


Whilst I'm a great fan of Halo, I have no problem with acknowledging that the Space Marines (and a great many other things from 40k) outclass the 26th-century supersoldiers. The technology is much higher.

In a five against five fight, the winner would probably be whichever side the writer favoured. Plot armour will be the deciding factor in this (pointless) comparison.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 18:53:55


Post by: Canonness Rory


Norade wrote:

Assault Rifle: I'm going to use the information for an AK-47 here as it fits the heavy round type and accuracy of the aforementioned weapon rather well; that is unless anybody can gather better data. Thus the bullet fired will travel at 715 meters per second and deliver 2,054 joules of energy to the target, it has has a thirty-two round clip and can fire at a rate of approximately 660 rounds per minute.


THE ASSAULT RIFLE DOES NOT HAVE A 32 ROUND CLIP.
THERE IS NO WEAPON IN EXISTENCE, REAL OR IMAGINARY, THAT HAS A 32 ROUND CLIP.

IF YOU MEAN MAGAZINE, HOWEVER, THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY.

RustyKnight wrote:
Canonness Rory wrote:Just for the sake of doing so, I am going to stat Spartans in 40k.
WS:4 BS:4 S:3(4) T:3 W:1 I:3 A:1 Ld:9 Sv4+
Squad: 6-10 Spartans

Not even close. WS and BS are too low. Spartans are in fluff and in game capapble of putting a bullet exactly where they want it. They are very, very strong. Like pulling apart tanks with bare hands. Like single blow KO's strong. Spartan 113 (and he wasn't the strongest) as a teen took ouy four marines in hand to hand combat. Toughness wise, spartans are extremely tough. They have metal in their bones. They get shot and keep on going all the time. Wounds wise, spartans aren't going to stop after one wound. Initiative wise, Spartans are stupid fast. I'd prolly say they're faster than SM. Like bullet dodging fast. Like hmmm-is-he-going-to-punch-me-?-oh-I-guess-he-is-I'd-better-break-his-leg-before-he-does fast. Attack wise, nope. Save wise, I'd prolly give them a 3+/4+. The armor isn't unstoppable, but it still deflects a ton.


1.) A space marines spends decades training with their weapons, and have decades of experience to back it up. They are BS4. A captain, who has hundreds of years of training and experience, has BS5.
2.) A space marine is an 8 foot tall behemoth in tank armor that can lift tons upon tons of weight, and crush human skulls in their bare hands. They are S4. Heavy Bolters, which are massive 1.0 caliber rounds fired from a gun the size of a large human being, are S5. A Single Space Marine can take on dozens if not hundreds of imperial guardsmen at the same time, in the fluff.
3.) Space Marines not only have metal in their bones, but have much, much thicker bones than humans, as well as 2 hearts, 3 lungs, immunity to poison, and several other incredibly unrealistic over-the-top things that make them so ridiculously tough that it makes one wonder why they even use armor in the first place. They are T4. By Comparison, a Gigantic Daemon Prince, who is twice to three times as large as a space marine, and who's flesh is made from stronger materials than the space marine's armor, is T5.
4.) 2 wound models are a rarity in 40k. An unsaved wound essentially means you got shot somewhere vital, like you got your arm blown off, of you got shot in the head/heard/lungs. Space Marines have 2 hearts, 3 lungs, and Bones as strong as tank armor. They are 1 wound. By comparison, an Ork Nob is 2 wounds. Orks are famous for being so tough that their bodies can pretty much survive anything up to and including the removal of the entire ork.
5.) So, they are faster that superhuman monstrosities who dedicate their entire lives to the art of war? Ok, I'll give you that, what is the next step up then? Eldar, and Slaaneshi CSM. Both of which use MAGIC to be faster and more alert than space marines. Sorry, you're wrong again, unless the spartans have some form of magic i'm not aware of.
6.) Attack wise, yep! You made no argument, so I have nothing to refute.
7.) 3+ is the armor of space marines, who's armor is twice as thick as spartan armor, and made of a futuristic combination of plot and adamantium. Terminator armor only have a 5+ invuln save. Terminators can get stepped on by titans and come out unscathed. Sorry, 4+/6++ is very generous.

Stop being such a fanboy and learn something about the opposition first.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 21:10:20


Post by: Norade


Lanceradvanced wrote:
Norade wrote: I will do armor when I am not dead tired, however I feel that this simple weapons comparison will be enough to show that in a straight-up fight a Space marine would win.


This is why I say Tactically the Space Marines win, strategically the Spartans do.. Spartans "think outside the box" so to speak, tactially, where as the marines just drop in and start shooting according to the Tactica, Also, remember, that Spartans are trained to do something that Space Marines never do.. When confronted with an enemy with superior weaponry -KILL ONE AND TAKE HIS GUN-


Yes, how do you expect a Spartan to kill a Space Marine with his weapons? With their helmets down there wouldn't be a place where the Spartan's gun would have a hope in hell of penetrating, even Lasguns have more energy behind them than a modern gun and Space Marines laugh those off easily. Given the Auspix (sp?) even if the Space Marine was sleeping, which we know they hardly need to do, the Spartan would have a near impossible time taking a weapon from a Space Marine.

As far as 'thinking outside the box' goes, could you please give an example where you believe a Spartan's more flexible thinking would allow them to succeed where an eight foot tall superhuman who can shrug off RPG's would fail?

Imperial Guard:

Lasgun: Based on the ability to vaporize a human brain a Lasgun has an energy output of 3,000,000 to 5,000,000 joules per shot. This may make them seem more powerful than bolters, but it seems that armor in 40k is more resistant to this type of energy than it is to kinetic and explosive energy.

Canonness Rory wrote:
Norade wrote:

Assault Rifle: I'm going to use the information for an AK-47 here as it fits the heavy round type and accuracy of the aforementioned weapon rather well; that is unless anybody can gather better data. Thus the bullet fired will travel at 715 meters per second and deliver 2,054 joules of energy to the target, it has has a thirty-two round clip and can fire at a rate of approximately 660 rounds per minute.


THE ASSAULT RIFLE DOES NOT HAVE A 32 ROUND CLIP.
THERE IS NO WEAPON IN EXISTENCE, REAL OR IMAGINARY, THAT HAS A 32 ROUND CLIP.

IF YOU MEAN MAGAZINE, HOWEVER, THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY.


The sad thing is I actually know the difference between a clip and a magazine, but I was tired so I used the far overused term clip in place of magazine.

Clip: A clip is a frame fold holding bullets and is usually inserted into a specially designed fixed magazine, example M1 Garand), or a stripper clip designed to aid in the loading of a fixed magazine weapon such as a Lee-Enfield rifle, or to load a cylinder of a revolver in the case of a crescent or half crescent clip.

Magazine: A metal box that is designed to store and feed ammunition into a weapon's chamber.



Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 21:32:26


Post by: gameandwatch


I dont understand this comparison, especially the idea of taking a 5 on 5 contest. honestly what weapons could a spartan use to hurt a space marine? The most powerful of his weapons would be the rocket launcher, which in hammer times more symbolizes the frag grenade launcher that IG uses. I mean, its simple physics and chemistry, something can only overcome something else for one, chemistry, if it is a specific combo of harder and denser, and two, the speed in which it is traveling. Most bullets in halo times become molten in mid air, and would deflect rapidly on something as strong as plasteel.

And strength wise, there is NO comparison, space marines can lift 900 pound ORKS off their feet, they wield 7 FOOT SWORDS, saying a power weapon in hammer, vs a power sword in Halo is like saying SM: I can swing something 6 feet longer, faster than you...

Tactics wise I dont see how you think spartans are more adept, yes marines follow tactica, they have also been around many hundreds of years longer than a spartan. And as for augments, spartans are not humans in suits, that is incorrect, they have both genetic and cybernetic implants, but marines, jesus, a marine could have no armor on and still be nearly impossible for a spartan to kill, unless he has many sniper and rocket shots, about the only real advantage a spartan would have is speed and agility, being lighter, more flexible, and smaller, that means he can do the five rules of dodgeball far better than a marine can, and unfortunately for the marines, if it became a prolonged fire fight, they cant pick up enemy weapons and use them as their hands are simply to big. But, a spartan would barely even be able to lift a bolter let alone carry it around, it would be like carrying a chopped down scorpion cannon, I mean look at an IGsman hold one, they are about a spartans size and its bigger than they are...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and space marines, yeah they are about 10 feet tall, weigh somewhere around a couple tons with armor, and their armor is more like 4 times as thick as a spartans, somewhere like 9 to 11 inches of armor....


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 21:40:43


Post by: nintendoeats


Would that Plasma Sword even reach through a space marine'z armour? For gak'z sake, the marinez win.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and snake would beat both squads at once, while simultaneously smoking, talking on his codec AND eating live animals.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 22:46:45


Post by: The Dreadnote


Nintendoeats wins the thread.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/14 22:57:03


Post by: ph34r


Lanceradvanced wrote:When confronted with an enemy with superior weaponry -KILL ONE AND TAKE HIS GUN-

The problem with that is a Spartan could never kill one marine to take the gun of.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 00:10:22


Post by: Lanceradvanced


Norade wrote:As far as 'thinking outside the box' goes, could you please give an example where you believe a Spartan's more flexible thinking would allow them to succeed where an eight foot tall superhuman who can shrug off RPG's would fail?


Any place he could set up a halfway decent ambush, especially of the "Drop a huge f***ing rock on him" type that Marbo pulled off, or for that matter, just -avoid the fight- to acomplish his mission.

And lets not forget, Space Marines arn't the only folks to tote bolters around in the 40k verse.. mug a commisar, or guard captian, work your way up the firepower chain, From what I recall of the 40kfic, the -only- marine who's ever seriously considered using a xenos weapon was Lucius..







Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 00:49:30


Post by: Norade


Lanceradvanced wrote:
Norade wrote:As far as 'thinking outside the box' goes, could you please give an example where you believe a Spartan's more flexible thinking would allow them to succeed where an eight foot tall superhuman who can shrug off RPG's would fail?


Any place he could set up a halfway decent ambush, especially of the "Drop a huge f***ing rock on him" type that Marbo pulled off, or for that matter, just -avoid the fight- to acomplish his mission.

And lets not forget, Space Marines arn't the only folks to tote bolters around in the 40k verse.. mug a commisar, or guard captian, work your way up the firepower chain, From what I recall of the 40kfic, the -only- marine who's ever seriously considered using a xenos weapon was Lucius..


This is not a Spartan versus Imperial Guard and Commisar fight, this is a Spartan versus Space Marine fight. As well Space Marines can be sneaky as well, ie Scout Marines, in the Blood Angels book they also sneak into a Chaos controlled spaceport. So I wouldn't give stealth to either side, especially as we don't know how well and Auspix would pick up the energy signature of a Spartan shield.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 02:32:25


Post by: Lanceradvanced


This is not a Spartan versus Imperial Guard and Commisar fight, this is a Spartan versus Space Marine fight.


Which happens where and when? Setting and set up is a huge factor one way or another, drop the spartan on any Imperial world, and they can aquire better weaponry (this isn't just some hypothetical argument, this is the explicit game advantage that nearly any FPS operates on) in a straight shootout without terrain, as I said, I'd give it to the Marines, as the situation gets more complex, I'd edge toward the Spartans.

As well Space Marines can be sneaky as well, ie Scout Marines, in the Blood Angels book they also sneak into a Chaos controlled spaceport. So I wouldn't give stealth to either side, especially as we don't know how well and Auspix would pick up the energy signature of a Spartan shield.


Bringing a scout however, works against the "the spartan can't hurt a marine in fully closed armor" argument.

Having read the fiction from both sides, I'd say the Space Marines, are very much in a "If all you have is a hammer, all the problems look like nails" school of thought, Spartans are Multitools, you mebbe can't hit as hard with em, but you can do more..



Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 02:52:41


Post by: Norade


Lanceradvanced wrote:
This is not a Spartan versus Imperial Guard and Commisar fight, this is a Spartan versus Space Marine fight.


Which happens where and when? Setting and set up is a huge factor one way or another, drop the spartan on any Imperial world, and they can aquire better weaponry (this isn't just some hypothetical argument, this is the explicit game advantage that nearly any FPS operates on) in a straight shootout without terrain, as I said, I'd give it to the Marines, as the situation gets more complex, I'd edge toward the Spartans.

As well Space Marines can be sneaky as well, ie Scout Marines, in the Blood Angels book they also sneak into a Chaos controlled spaceport. So I wouldn't give stealth to either side, especially as we don't know how well and Auspix would pick up the energy signature of a Spartan shield.


Bringing a scout however, works against the "the spartan can't hurt a marine in fully closed armor" argument.

Having read the fiction from both sides, I'd say the Space Marines, are very much in a "If all you have is a hammer, all the problems look like nails" school of thought, Spartans are Multitools, you mebbe can't hit as hard with em, but you can do more..


Dropping Spartans into 40k would be the worst thing you could do to them because of the warp, the God Emperor won't protect them, their equipment isn't coated in purity seals and their easy fodder for a Librarian. You're also ignoring what happens if we're instead dropping a Chapter of Space Marines into the Halo universe where there are no better weapons for the Spartans to get, and the fact that you're not taking into account that Spartans will die even against Imperial guards lasguns.

Also even in a more complex scenario with cover the Space Marines will win, when your armor can't be scratched by their weapons and you can blow through the tree/rock/house/warthog they're hiding behind you're going top win every time. If we apply this to a search and destroy mission in a city where each side needs to find the other's forces and kill them while also defending their own base then you start to see that the Spartans have no chance. You also assume that juts because they use a tactica and are indoctrinated that Space Marines can only wade in while laying down fire, and you refer to vague scenarios where Spartans can win, and yet can't name an example.

As far as scouts go, I doubt they would be in any real danger from shooting still. They still have the next best thing to Space Marine armor and unlike a Spartan, this armor can still take a lasgun shot and not be melted slag. Not to mention the fact that a scout sniper would one hit a Spartan with any shot while the Spartan sniper would need to choose his shots to hurt even a Scout Marine. As well the Marines sneaking into a Space port weren't scouts, they were fully Armored Marines who took the stealthy route, so you can't say that regular Marines can't be sneaky.

Oh, I also knew I was forgetting something, the Space Marines have easily a ten to one numbers advantage, per chapter, over the Spartans as well and their ships would one hit UNSC ships. We're also not being nasty and giving the good 'ol SM their special weapons such as flamers and meltas and missile launchers which make this even more one-sided in any situation; nor are we giving them vehicles, terminator armor, artificer armor, rozarius, or anything else. In a real war or even a scenario with all the Spartans with vehicles and best kit versus only an equal number of SM with vehicles and just bolters I know who I'm voting for.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 03:09:26


Post by: EzeKK


Lanceradvanced wrote:
Norade wrote:As far as 'thinking outside the box' goes, could you please give an example where you believe a Spartan's more flexible thinking would allow them to succeed where an eight foot tall superhuman who can shrug off RPG's would fail?


Any place he could set up a halfway decent ambush, especially of the "Drop a huge f***ing rock on him" type that Marbo pulled off, or for that matter, just -avoid the fight- to acomplish his mission.

And lets not forget, Space Marines arn't the only folks to tote bolters around in the 40k verse.. mug a commisar, or guard captian, work your way up the firepower chain, From what I recall of the 40kfic, the -only- marine who's ever seriously considered using a xenos weapon was Lucius..


http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Daily_rituals_of_a_Space_Marine

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Power_Armour

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine

After reading that, just imagine how a Spartan could take on a Space Marine. Don't forget about the fact that Space Marines can take a hit without an energy shield and that they are of Feral world (not Earth) and they select the Elite of these Feral words and only the Elite of these Elite are taken in as a Scout and only the Elite of these scouts are selected to be a battlebrother. Don't forget the fact that a Space Marine can stalk (ever heard of Konrad Kurze?) and they can set traps and kill just about anything. The only "stupid" Space Marines are Blood Angels gripped by the Black Rage, and even then they will just kill you whatever you try.

Don't forget, if you think that Spartan 117 has been taught a lot, EVERY Space Marine has been pumped 12M full of tactics and military history of the elite of mankind into his brain. Don't forget that a Space Marine can operate without food or water or sleep for weeks on end and never sleeps. They shut down a part of their brain at a time and are always awake.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 03:10:20


Post by: Deadshane1


Halo sucks.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 03:17:52


Post by: Norade


Thanks for the +1 spam Deadshane1, I really needed to see those two words of yours to make me feel complete. I know it may not be required, but try to add something when you post.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 03:22:27


Post by: Deadshane1


Sorry...

Halo sucks. Fallout is a better FPS.

(I'm here to please! )

EDIT: btw, your use of spam is innappropriate here. I only posted the once before you labeled it spam, hope that helps.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 03:47:33


Post by: RustyKnight


Deadshane1 wrote:Sorry...

Halo sucks. Fallout is a better FPS.

As a FPS, Fallout is horrible. As far as shooting is concerned, Halo takes Fallout, beats with a rusty crowbar, and drowns it in a pool of tears created by a bunch of SW players in denial over the Wolf of Fenris.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 03:52:09


Post by: Norade


On the boards I'm from, a post with only two words in it equals spam.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 03:53:38


Post by: Deadshane1


you're on dakka now.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 03:55:30


Post by: EzeKK


Deadshane1 wrote:you're on dakka now.


This about sums it up.

Also, yeah halo isn't that great of a shooter. You jump around and take ridiculous amounts of fire and never die.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 03:56:57


Post by: Lanceradvanced


Norade wrote: In a real war or even a scenario with all the Spartans with vehicles and best kit versus only an equal number of SM with vehicles and just bolters I know who I'm voting for.


Again, Hammer vs Multitool... You need to stop thinking about the Spartans is if they're troop selections like guard platoons or stormtroopers , and thinking about more like Assassins, or Death Cultists, if you're thowing them into a war, or head to head fight, you're using them wrong.





Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 04:03:00


Post by: Norade


Lanceradvanced wrote:
Norade wrote: In a real war or even a scenario with all the Spartans with vehicles and best kit versus only an equal number of SM with vehicles and just bolters I know who I'm voting for.


Which would be the exact kind of scenario that the spartans wouldn't be used for....

Again, Hammer vs Multitool.. and that the last I'm gonna say on it..


Just repeating Hammer versus Multitool does not an argument make. You have yet to provide a situation where Spartans are more capable than Marines in spite of my asking for it several times, so I am forced to conclude that you don't have one and are trying to stall.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 04:05:30


Post by: RustyKnight


Norade wrote:
Lanceradvanced wrote:
Norade wrote: In a real war or even a scenario with all the Spartans with vehicles and best kit versus only an equal number of SM with vehicles and just bolters I know who I'm voting for.


Which would be the exact kind of scenario that the spartans wouldn't be used for....

Again, Hammer vs Multitool.. and that the last I'm gonna say on it..


Just repeating Hammer versus Multitool does not an argument make. You have yet to provide a situation where Spartans are more capable than Marines in spite of my asking for it several times, so I am forced to conclude that you don't have one and are trying to stall.

Can Space Marines take off their armor and go undercover? Can Space Marines carry around ship-grade AI's in their heads? Can a Space Marine deflect an anti-tank missle with his arm and live? These examples don't mean that Spartans beat SM, but they are examples of situations where a Spartan would outperform an SM.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 04:12:33


Post by: Norade


RustyKnight wrote:
Norade wrote:
Lanceradvanced wrote:
Norade wrote: In a real war or even a scenario with all the Spartans with vehicles and best kit versus only an equal number of SM with vehicles and just bolters I know who I'm voting for.


Which would be the exact kind of scenario that the spartans wouldn't be used for....

Again, Hammer vs Multitool.. and that the last I'm gonna say on it..


Just repeating Hammer versus Multitool does not an argument make. You have yet to provide a situation where Spartans are more capable than Marines in spite of my asking for it several times, so I am forced to conclude that you don't have one and are trying to stall.

Can Space Marines take off their armor and go undercover? Can Space Marines carry around ship-grade AI's in their heads? Can a Space Marine deflect an anti-tank missle with his arm and live? These examples don't mean that Spartans beat SM, but they are examples of situations where a Spartan would outperform an SM.


Space Marines can't go undercover in any society I can think of. As far as ship grade AI, most of 40k doesn't have higher end AI from what I have scene so it doesn't seem to matter too much, also what would they need it for? If we're talking about a Halo anti-tank missile then yes, easily, if you're talking about a 40k anti-tank missile then they die only fractions of a second slower than a Spartan would.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 04:15:53


Post by: Deadshane1


RustyKnight wrote:
Can Space Marines take off their armor and go undercover?
Marine Scouts?
Can Space Marines carry around ship-grade AI's in their heads?
I thought power armour helms had computerised HUD's...why not?
Can a Space Marine deflect an anti-tank missle with his arm and live?
"ok, you rolled a hit with the missle..now roll to wound. Aww, you rolled a 1!" OR two words...artificer armour.
These examples don't mean that Spartans beat SM, but they are examples of situations where a Spartan would outperform an SM.
No they arent.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 04:15:55


Post by: garret


this is sparta. look at my avatar and think for yourself


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 04:25:49


Post by: Mad Rabbit


Even a Space Marine's combat knife would one shot a Spartan. Not to mention what a chainsword would do.

Either way, this argument will depend on who you ask. People who are familiar with both will go 90% Space Marine.

Kids who played Halo 3 online for hours will always go Spartan because they wouldn't know badass if it dropped in on them with a jump pack and chainsworded them to death.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 05:05:09


Post by: Lanceradvanced


Just repeating Hammer versus Multitool does not an argument make. You have yet to provide a situation where Spartans are more capable than Marines in spite of my asking for it several times, so I am forced to conclude that you don't have one and are trying to stall.


I don't feel the need to come up with elaborate contrived scenarios to counter a "Marine can't be touched and can destroy anything" argument, that I don't believe is supportable after reeadign through a lot of the of the GW fic where the Marines die in droves, and exhibit strategic blindspots you could drive a truck though. If they didn't have those holes, the Imperium wouln't need the Guard, or more to the point, the Ordos. It's those situations that the Spartans would generally be more capable in, where the Imperium calls an Inquisitor, the UNSC calls a Spartan..



Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 05:50:00


Post by: sourclams


Lanceradvanced wrote:
Just repeating Hammer versus Multitool does not an argument make. You have yet to provide a situation where Spartans are more capable than Marines in spite of my asking for it several times, so I am forced to conclude that you don't have one and are trying to stall.


I don't feel the need to come up with elaborate contrived scenarios to counter a "Marine can't be touched and can destroy anything" argument, that I don't believe is supportable after reeadign through a lot of the of the GW fic where the Marines die in droves, and exhibit strategic blindspots you could drive a truck though. If they didn't have those holes, the Imperium wouln't need the Guard, or more to the point, the Ordos. It's those situations that the Spartans would generally be more capable in, where the Imperium calls an Inquisitor, the UNSC calls a Spartan..



Marines really don't "die in droves". It takes a significant foe to really begin popping them off, and it's more a reflection on how incredibly savage the xenoforms in 40k are that many can kill 2-3 Marines at a time (Carnifex, Wraith Lord, Archon) than it is on Marines being the sux. In a literary sense, these sorts of fights tend to simply be the entry point for some named SM character, who always wins.

I've read all the Halo books except the last, and really I don't see anything in their material that would put them on par with Astartes, especially if you compare the Spartans (who all seem to become Named special characters) with Named Space Marines. Really, by all rights, Chief is the equivalent of a Chapter Master, and as the archetypal Spartan, we should be comparing him to characters like Calgar or Abaddon. Can you really tell me that Chief could take on Abaddon?

As for strategic blindspots, Marine tactics tend to be some variant on a suicidal charge to get into hand to hand. It's more a reflection on how incredibly UBAR they are that they make a headlong dive into enemy gunfire a viable combat maneuver. As I recall, Spartans were only deployed en masse in a planetary invasion once against the Covenant, and although they achieved their mission, all of them died. Marines often dive into those sorts of situations against foes at least as powerful and advanced as the Covenant, win, and rarely fall under fighting strength.

They're bigger, stronger, faster, better equipped, and if not better trained, at least equally trained.

It would take a huge bonus to overcome those natural advantages, and nothing I've read suggests that Spartans have that sort of edge.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 06:16:19


Post by: Norade


Lanceradvanced wrote:
Just repeating Hammer versus Multitool does not an argument make. You have yet to provide a situation where Spartans are more capable than Marines in spite of my asking for it several times, so I am forced to conclude that you don't have one and are trying to stall.


I don't feel the need to come up with elaborate contrived scenarios to counter a "Marine can't be touched and can destroy anything" argument, that I don't believe is supportable after reeadign through a lot of the of the GW fic where the Marines die in droves, and exhibit strategic blindspots you could drive a truck though. If they didn't have those holes, the Imperium wouln't need the Guard, or more to the point, the Ordos. It's those situations that the Spartans would generally be more capable in, where the Imperium calls an Inquisitor, the UNSC calls a Spartan..



This is a thread about Space Marines versus Spartans, yet you only every vaguely talk about tactical blind spots and special scenarios without bringing in anything to back up your argument. As far as needing the guard of course they need bodies and soldiers to garrison worlds, that is there job, that's like saying if US Marines didn't have such huge blind spots then we wouldn't need a national guard, or if the Spartans didn't have such huge blind spots then the UNSC wouldn't need anybody else. Both forces are the elite combat forces of their respected governments, so instead of trying to say that we shouldn't compare them because they are too different why don't instead you provide evidence for your statements.

As Sourclams says Marines die against some of the worst things in the 40k universe, Spartans could die to a modern guy with a few grenades and an AK-47


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 06:36:51


Post by: lalabox


The space marines would all be standing there with no helmets and shouting. And if the spartans can shoot the little orange bit on hunters...

Anyway, this argument is silly.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 06:50:52


Post by: Dakkadood


Lets settle it like men, ancient men.

We shall have a fight between the two universes using the strongest man of each, champion vs champion:



Marneus Augustus Calgar aka Papa Smurf VS John-117 aka Master Chief

I was going to post an entire list about each one, but then decided that there is nothing more badass than this:



Lexicanum wrote:Calgar is immune to fear and is resolutely courageous under fire; where lesser men would dive for cover when being fired upon, Marneus Calgar takes quick stock of the situation, decides the best course of action, and only if he so decides to leap into cover, then he will do so.

28 volumes of records dedicated to the achievements and deeds of Calgar, surpassed only by Roboute Guilliman, are stored within a vault at the Macragge's Chapter Fortress. Amongst these achievements include: leading the breaching assault on the Tyranid Hive Ship Behemoth Primus, single-handedly holding the gate against an Ork Horde for a night and a day at the Siege of Zalathrax, defeating an Eldar Avatar in single-handed combat, thus leading to the rout of Eldar forces at the Battle for Orar's Sepulchre, and recapturing the star fort Indomitable from the daemonic hordes of M'kar the Reborn


So yeah... try pulling that off mr Masterchief...


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 09:29:26


Post by: The Dreadnote


WHO WOULD WIN IN A FIGHT BATMAN OR SUPERMAN BUT IF BATMAN'S PREPARED??


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 13:20:40


Post by: Corpsman_of_Krieg


I've gotta say, I'm surprised. This thread of "my fictional super soldier can beat up your fictional super soldier" managed to stay relatively on-track for at least 2 pages.

Can we bring this to a close please?

CK


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 14:05:11


Post by: Lanceradvanced


Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:I've gotta say, I'm surprised. This thread of "my fictional super soldier can beat up your fictional super soldier" managed to stay relatively on-track for at least 2 pages.

Can we bring this to a close please?

CK


Sure, Second Stage Lensmen PWN everything...


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 20:26:56


Post by: God Of Yams


The Dreadnote wrote:WHO WOULD WIN IN A FIGHT BATMAN OR THE EMPEROR BUT IF BATMAN'S PREPARED??


Fixed it for you


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 20:37:18


Post by: LunaHound



*Screams in horror , not this type of topic again.

In b4 Space Marine vs Supreme Commander.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 21:34:49


Post by: The Dreadnote


God Of Yams wrote:
The Dreadnote wrote:WHO WOULD WIN IN A FIGHT BATMAN OR THE EMPEROR BUT IF BATMAN'S PREPARED??


Fixed it for you
Now normally I'd vote Batman in these issues (fun fact: batman did already win the above scenario), but the Emperor isn't as much of a pussy as superman. He'd probably just powersword him in half or something.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 21:40:55


Post by: sourclams


Going by the personal history of the Emperor and his do-gooder-style wanderings for the first 10,000 years of his life, you could make a very good case of the Emperor actually having been Batman.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 21:52:53


Post by: Wolf


Mad Rabbit wrote:Spartans are essentially still human, just with the cool armor.
Space Marines are a head taller, better armed, better armored, stronger, tougher and not afraid of anything.

No contest. Space marines would drop their guns out of pity and tear off the Spartans' arms. Then maybe use them as clubs to put the poor Spartans down.



Hahahahahaha LOL, oh man that got me going, haha

yeah space marines would justpumel them like Mad Rabbit stated lol.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 22:06:07


Post by: The Dreadnote


sourclams wrote:Going by the personal history of the Emperor and his do-gooder-style wanderings for the first 10,000 years of his life, you could make a very good case of the Emperor actually having been Batman.
I think you just restored my faith in the imperium.

FOR THE BATMAN!


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 22:06:19


Post by: orkylooter


i just want to say master chief can improvise space marines dont



but then every one else kills both

END


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/15 22:10:49


Post by: The Dreadnote


Space marines can improvise. They just don't usually need to. Giant, head-sized metal fists and automatic rocket launchers tend to suffice in most situations. The master chief is often outclassed by his enemies; space marines do the outclassing.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/16 00:29:45


Post by: orkylooter


i said they both get killed the end


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/16 06:45:54


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Internet vs debates are stupid and pointless.

Space Marine wins hands down.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/16 16:13:50


Post by: Gabe


I heard that Halo was the first, first person shooter ever made, and that Master Chief is the first superhero.

Ergo, the Spartans would totally win.

End of thread.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/16 16:45:13


Post by: Uprising


It really depends on if your talking about game spartan or the spartan in the books. SM vs game Spartan then SM wins. If it`s SM vs Book Spartan then i would be close.

Because this is a Warhammer site, i really think some of you only know the game spartan not the book spartan, so here a link http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/SPARTAN-II_Program


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/16 16:59:29


Post by: The Dreadnote


Book spartan still loses. If I was to argue otherwise I'd have to start ignoring facts.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/16 19:05:38


Post by: sourclams


I've read nearly all the Halo books and book Spartan definitely loses. Master Chief "John" versus Marneus Calgar won't end well. Chief could barely take on a Brute in close combat. Against Calgar what would he do? His best bet would be sticking grenades to him and running.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/16 21:43:29


Post by: RustyKnight


Just kinda curios, but aren't there IG books where the SM lose to humans?


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/16 22:04:47


Post by: sourclams


Not really, no. The closest comparison I can think of is in Gaunt's Ghosts, I think it was Armor of Contempt, where a 5 man Chaos Space Marine squad plops into a village with about a two hundred natives and a vet squad of Ghosts. The CSM are all killed, but 100 of the Natives die to drag them down.

Likewise there was a scene in the first Eisenhorn novel Xenos where Gregor gets into a sword/axe fight with an Aspiring Champion of the Emperor's Children, and it's not even close, he's just getting his ass kicked all over the place. He warp-stunned it with an ancient heretical tome and cut its head off.

That's pretty typical for SM death scenes with Abnett. If "normal" humans to manage to kill a Space Marine it's because of overwhelming advantage or special equipment, and usually a whole bunch of normal humans die in the process.

Likewise in the Soul Drinker series a Ministorum Priest with a huge mass of IG Penal Legionnaires slowly kill half of a Space Marine squad, but take exponentially greater casualties in the process. In the same series an inquisitor manages to kill a chapter champion one-on-one, but he does it from range with specialized seeking bolt ammunition, and still almost dies.

In Lord of the Night a single Chaos Raptor almost gets dragged down by a hundred Arbites firing massed shotgun volleys, but then he kills them all.

There's the occasional Marine casualty to a Guardsman with a plasmagun, but those are pretty few and far between. In the vast majority of stories Marines tear through unaugmented humans like linebackers through 5th graders.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/16 22:30:24


Post by: Mad Rabbit


sourclams wrote:Not really, no. The closest comparison I can think of is in Gaunt's Ghosts, I think it was Armor of Contempt, where a 5 man Chaos Space Marine squad plops into a village with about a two hundred natives and a vet squad of Ghosts. The CSM are all killed, but 100 of the Natives die to drag them down.

Likewise there was a scene in the first Eisenhorn novel Xenos where Gregor gets into a sword/axe fight with an Aspiring Champion of the Emperor's Children, and it's not even close, he's just getting his ass kicked all over the place. He warp-stunned it with an ancient heretical tome and cut its head off.

That's pretty typical for SM death scenes with Abnett. If "normal" humans to manage to kill a Space Marine it's because of overwhelming advantage or special equipment, and usually a whole bunch of normal humans die in the process.

Likewise in the Soul Drinker series a Ministorum Priest with a huge mass of IG Penal Legionnaires slowly kill half of a Space Marine squad, but take exponentially greater casualties in the process. In the same series an inquisitor manages to kill a chapter champion one-on-one, but he does it from range with specialized seeking bolt ammunition, and still almost dies.

In Lord of the Night a single Chaos Raptor almost gets dragged down by a hundred Arbites firing massed shotgun volleys, but then he kills them all.

There's the occasional Marine casualty to a Guardsman with a plasmagun, but those are pretty few and far between. In the vast majority of stories Marines tear through unaugmented humans like linebackers through 5th graders.


You were thinking of Traitor General in the first one. It also involved creative uses of power swords, tube charges, and the surrounding environment. But yes, your point is quite valid.

It would take a lot of Spartans to drag down a Marine


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/16 23:33:04


Post by: Durandal


It is a moot point. Space marines would lose simply because Spartan grenades actually do damage, and Spartans can shoot their laser cannons, missile launchers and sniper rifles on the run.

"See the cowards run!" The sergeant would yell. Followed closely by "By the emperor, what is that red dot on your armor brother?"



Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/16 23:54:14


Post by: sourclams


In the fluff Marines can do all those things, too....


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/17 00:45:35


Post by: Reecius


Haha, this is such a stupid argument! It is impossible to prove anyone's point.

Except mine of course! Space Marines would bitch slap Spartans and turn them out on the street corner for some beer money.



Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/17 00:47:00


Post by: God Of Yams


sourclams wrote:In the fluff Marines can do all those things, too....


And they have better equipment...and training...and they're stronger...with better armour.

This is pretty one sided, and yet here we are on page four.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/06/17 02:27:58


Post by: Exarch_Nektel


Let's keep in mind that Space Marines have 37000 years on the spartans.

Yeah, marines would still own.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/07/07 17:08:01


Post by: orkishlyorkish


Reecius wrote:Haha, this is such a stupid argument! It is impossible to prove anyone's point.

Except mine of course! Space Marines would bitch slap Spartans and turn them out on the street corner for some beer money.

QFT
It's impossible to tell considering the 40,000+ year difference. It's like comparing a man with a gun today to a man with a spear/club 40 000 years ago. Who would win? I think that a spartan is far superior in combat tactics and equal in strength to a spaz marine, but technology-wise the spazies would win hands down. Saying that, a spartan laser would win.

step 1) Spartan aims laser at a SM.
step 2) SM companions see him.
step 3) SM companions think he's impure or something of the like.
step 4) SM companions kill him.
Step 5) Rinse and repeat until only one SM is left to fight/he kills himself thinking he to is impure.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/07/08 10:44:23


Post by: the_emperors_renegade


Mad Rabbit wrote:Spartans are essentially still human, just with the cool armor.
Space Marines are a head taller, better armed, better armored, stronger, tougher and not afraid of anything.

No contest. Space marines would drop their guns out of pity and tear off the Spartans' arms. Then maybe use them as clubs to put the poor Spartans down.


I Don't agree to part 1: The helmets look like biker helmets
I agree to the rest!

And of course, Speiz Merinz would pown them Halo guys...much in the same way orkish said...

1. Spartans cruise like hardcore down the street in their phully sikk buggies(warthogs or whateva their called) when they see a uber pimped Rhino on the other side of the road.
2. Spartans don't like the Rhino and start shooting
3. When (after half an hour)the Spartan pram's...sorry buggy's...Cannon still hasn't managed to even scratch the paint of the Rhino the Spartans get angry(Scary )
4. Space Marines notice the Spartans and open fire
5. BOOM!
6. Space Marines drive off.
7. The Spartans don't.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/07/08 10:59:03


Post by: Lagduf


This is a stupid thread.

Space Marines would win because they possess better armor, better weapons, and all around better technology.

Your match up's don't make sense anyway.

Why would the Spartan be using a Plasma Rifle? That's covenant tech.

Besides a 40K Plasma weapon and a Halo Plasma weapon aren't even in the same league.

None of the weapons are matched fairly.

You might have just posed the questions:

Who would win in a fight - five really, really strong guys w/ uber tech vs five regular guys with regular tech.

/nerd

Canonness Rory wrote:
ph34r wrote: A spartan can be killed by 2 clips from a standard SMG.

MAGAZINE.
SAY IT WITH ME.
MAG-A-ZINE.


Thank you.

I've finally found another person who actually knows the difference between a magazine and a clip...and gets annoyed when the terms are used interchangeably (hint: they shouldn't be.)

Reecius wrote:Haha, this is such a stupid argument! It is impossible to prove anyone's point.


Wrong.

Both Bungie and GW have written enough fluff, and talked about weapons in their respective universes that conclusions can be drawn.

Weaponry in Halo isn't that much more advanced than what we're using today, just go check out the weapon profiles on Bungie's site.

Again, this is a stupid question because the answer is obvious.

Plus fictional matchups are worth talking about...if you're 12. I am ashamed to have posted in this thread.


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/07/08 11:46:22


Post by: Ketara


Durandal wrote:
"See the cowards run!" The sergeant would yell. Followed closely by "By the emperor, what is that red dot on your armor brother?"


Followed closely by, 'I don't know Commander, but someone seems to spitting grape seeds at this red dot on my armour.'


Space Marines vs Spartans (of Halo) @ 2009/07/08 11:51:07


Post by: Emperors Faithful


heh, heh.
Good one Ketara.