We all see those kids in gaming stores, right? From the peewees to the pre-teens who have a raging passion for Ultramarines. What's your opinion on these younger gamers? How do you interact with them?

Now, I'm one of the younger people at my FLGS (at least, one of the youngest who play competitively), but I don't really feel any sympathy towards kids. They swagger in, all confident that their Ultramarines/Cadians/generic whatever army is the best in the store. Then when you wipe the floor with them, they get all butthurt about it and storm out of the store following a lot of crying and accusations of cheating.

There should really be an age limit on this hobby. If kids weren't allowed to play, Space Marines wouldn't outsell everything else.

Thoughts?

If kids werent allowed to blow all their cash on marines there would be no hobby, besides, we were all space marine collecting kids at some point.

Cheese Elemental wrote:There should really be an age limit on this hobby. If kids weren't allowed to play, Space Marines wouldn't outsell everything else.

Thoughts?

You're wrong on pretty much all counts, but you know that well enough since you know everyone hates you.

Good idea, then we wouldn't have whiny kids like you playing.

There are some incredibly LOUD kid at my club, and a few who are quite reasonable. Some want to learn, others do not listen (or learn).

For most it is a fad they will outgrow. Some kids will stay in the hobby.

I wish I could put Cheese Elemental on a pizza and bake him in the oven.

Then he would become...Pizza Elemental. Four times as delicious.

Anyway, as far as kids go...the only time I don't like it is when some little kid comes into the store and immediately runs over to the table to look at my horrid unpainted army eagerly, and then starts crawling around underneath it and forcing me to keep an eye on him and make sure he doesn't run off with any of my dead models from my case, since his parents are too busy browsing for new dice and talking about RPGs with the guys at the register to watch him.

Other than that, I don't think kids are really the problem, and if you start banning people then it should be based on maturity level and not age. There are plenty of guys in their 20's or 30's even who act just as bad as the kids do at times, or worse.

I can see this thread isn't going anywhere but a bash-fest for me.

Hey, don't blame us, Mr-nobody-likes-me-everyone-hates-me. You started it.

Besides, even some grown-ups act childish at times.

Nine of the ten worst experiences I have ever had in my 18 years of playing games were all from adolescents or teenagers. In fact it is the main reason I no longer play 40K.

What? No I didn't. Bookwrack started it by being a troll and digging out a thread nobody cared about anyway.

I'm gonna EAT YA!

[/fatbastard]

Cheese, I have dealt with plenty of people who fit your definition. Alas, not all of them were under the age of 12. I have played grown men who pout, shout, throw tantrums and dice, and generally make me embarrased for the hobby.

This weekend, I played a game of WotR against two young men (I'd have to guess middle-schoolers. 7th, maybe 8th grade tops.) One has played LotR in the past, the other, his cousin, has extensive Yu-Gi-Oh! skills but had never played a wargame before.

It was a pleasure to face them. They took correction graciously, asked intelligent questions, and did not complain when things went against them. I wish all my opponents behaved with such maturity.


So if you want to put a maturity limit on the game, I agree. An age limit is just too arbitrary.

fellblade wrote:So if you want to put a maturity limit on the game, I agree. An age limit is just too arbitrary.

We should all have to pass some sort of test.

Said test could even be made standard in some way. Perhaps with No. 2 Pencils and some sort of sheet that can be read by a computer.

Then, if you don't pass, you can't get into coll... er, play wargames.

This thread makes me feel like I got into the hobby far too late. I didnt even know what a space marine was until I was 19.

before that I would have assumed you were talking about the guy in DooM.

Almost every single bad experience ive had at gaming in general has been at the hands of someone over 25 or 30.. Teenagers who are reasonably mature make the best opponents

They adapt better, they bitch less and most importantly they have less preconceptions about how their army SHOULD play

More often than not they're gamers and not "collectors" and enjoy the game for the game..

Ive found all my challenging opponents to be teenagers who have grown into adults where most of the "older players" have been unable to adapt to new rules and tend to cry more

I blame GW. If they put less effort into promoting Spess Mehrens, there wouldn't be as many kids playing the hobby, because it seems that the majority of young boys are obsessed with killing things. Space Marines don't do anything but kill stuff, so they must be awesome. It's the same issue we have with toy guns.

Hey hey hey hey heyheyhey.

Don't be talking gak on toy guns.

Cheese Elemental wrote:I can see this thread isn't going anywhere but a bash-fest for me.

Given your opening post, what were you expecting?

Kids have to learn somewhere. If older gamers aren't going to take the time teach them how to play and how to behave in a sportsmanlike manner, where are they going to learn it?

I've had more bad games against adults than I have against kids.

Platuan4th wrote:We should all have to pass some sort of test.

Can you find three or more badly written rules, unclear examples or ambiguities in [Insert Codex Here] on your first read through. Those that can't are either too young to play, or GW apologists.

[EDIT]: I also find it hilarious that Cheese's own 'attack me' thread was locked for not being polite. Dakka Dakka - the only place where the Mods can warn you for insulting yourself!!!

It's not fair, I say. Stelek got his own 'attack me' thread. I demand equal rights.

Cheese Elemental wrote:I blame GW. If they put less effort into promoting Spess Mehrens, there wouldn't be as many kids playing the hobby, because it seems that the majority of young boys are obsessed with killing things. Space Marines don't do anything but kill stuff, so they must be awesome. It's the same issue we have with toy guns.

Ummmm,Do orkz hold bake sales when they're not killing things?It's a WAR game man.
But more OT, I take everyone on a case by case, person by person basis when ever possible,so just because a gamer is young I don't automaticly view him/her as an annoyance...or even someone who plays with toy guns.

Back when I played Dungeons and Dragons there was this guy in one of my games. Every time he rolled poorly (He was a monk in 3.5 and his character already sucked, because he wasn't a caster) he'd get this super pissed look on his face. I could see his blood pressure just rising in his face. He was in his mid 30s and was a career firefighter. I could never get how immature that guy was. He was fine in every other aspect of his life, it's just when he games he would do this. He flipped out a few times too, so I had to leave that group. I completely despise people that get that emotional over a few dice rolls. I should have told him to just reroll druid/cleric/wizard. He might have had a better time. Because he rolled a lot of dice with flurry of blows and he almost never hit.

Yes, but the only thing cooler than big hulking fungi that like to kill things for fun, are brainwashed fascists that kill things for THE EMPRAH.

Dakka Dakka - the only place where the Mods can warn you for insulting yourself!!!

You'd think this place was run by the British or something.

HA HA OHHH.

seriously though. You cant do that. You might end up hurting yourself or someone else, and we cant have that. not at all.

I actually like the kids that frequented my local store. The annoying people are the guys that are in their 20's and 30's and bitch constantly about RAW and how awesome they are. The guys who complain when they lose a game and give their opponents bad sportsmanship scores for it are bad too.

Cheese Elemental wrote:It's not fair, I say. Stelek got his own 'attack me' thread. I demand equal rights.

That might not be the wisest thing to wish for...

You know, seeing a child behaving badly is one thing. There is a certain expectation for a limited amount of it directly proportional to their age. However, seeing a grown man exhibit the same behaviors in the same situation is infinitely worse.
I've faced my share of gakky little kids. Their full-grown equivalents are where the true "awkward moments" are at.
But no one, Cheese, is going to respect a pity invitation. no one. And as you can see, you will get called on it. As a child (certainly in the standard age-based definition of said if nothing else), you have a choice: modify yourself or defy everyone around you. For your own sake you should modify your behavior enough to get by in society without giving up your individuality; this will allow you to do things like get laid regularly with higher end women, get and retain better jobs, move in better social circles. However, from the point of view of many here who would be vastly amused by further stories of your spiral downward as your maturity levels remain unchanged and your age increases, we would be very entertained if you chose defiance. Because seeing you come apart at the seems and take your own life apart bolt by blessed bolt would be worth a chuckle, and nothing more, but that makes it worht it to us.

*Face palms , i can see where this is going

No, Luna; you can see where he put this. It's not like this thread is spiralling downward, it started in the abyssmal pit of gak that is self-pity.

Hmm , im not sure how old cheese is , but im guessing same age . So what age group are we talking about? under 12?

But basically there is a few things :

1) Spoiled brats stinks and you can smell them the moment they enter the game place . Its rather easy to avoid playing them (saves yourself the grief)
2) Spoiled jerks arnt limited to young kids , there are tons of older TFG everywhere and they travel in crews.
I guess some just cant grow out of it , instead they grow bitter . And uses war gamming to attempt to make up their lack of accomplishments in life.

3) I have seen very young gamers ( like 10? ) incredibly polite , asks before they can see my minis , and very carefully handle them as well.
Human beings arnt really to be stereotyped , the difference is too great.

I've had 40K games with kids that I'd never want to sit at the same table with again. I think everyone has.

I can also say that with one or two exceptions, the 'kids' where I play tend to be pretty well mannered. One of our youngest gamers is also one of the best people I've ever played with. His father really took the time to teach him the etiquette of playing in public and getting along with others. In fact, I think his being there has a lot to do with making the older kids better to game with too.

My two cents at any rate. Well, it was probably more than two, but you all get my meaning. Unless you don't.

I'm going to stop now.

Luna: Not sure why you quoted me, it didnt seem to have anything to do with anything in the rest of that last post of yours. About the only thing I would take exception to is your assertion that older TFG's travel in crews. From what I have seen, they tend to get themselves singled out, however there are exceptions to be sure and YMMV.

MrGiggles: I guess sometimes the Power of Parenting can overcome quite a bit. Prevent even more.

Oops sorry! i was running back and forth between spraying my orks and replying messages . I think i forgot to reply what i orginally quoted ><

grizgrin wrote:No, Luna; you can see where he put this. It's not like this thread is spiralling downward, it started in the abyssmal pit of gak that is self-pity.

I have no intention of wallowing in self-pity.

They taste great and have less filling.

Sirius42 wrote:If kids werent allowed to blow all their cash on marines there would be no hobby, besides, we were all space marine collecting kids at some point.

No we weren't. I started playing 40k at age 28, with Chaos marines. Now I'm 40.

I don't play at the local GW due to the preponderance of tweens there. Tried it, didn't like it.

I agree with others that kids do need to learn somewhere. WHen I was younger I learned to take my lumps from playing Avalon Hill wargames and chess with my pop, not to mention playing sports where people kept score, everyone didn't win, and everyone didn't get a trophy...

The only reason i hate the kids is because the rarly buy the stuff with there own money,they make there parent buy it.
They dont pay and they beg there parents to buy everything there.
but im 16 do i count as a kid?

garret wrote:the only reason i hate the kids is because the rarly buy the stuff with there own money.

Yeah, those 12-year-olds should be back down the mine earning their way, instead of just scabbing off their parents...

or they could do chores around the house and earn the money. Thats what I did until I got a job.

Ive played a few games with kids that were really great.

Generally, though, lil boys dont like being beaten by a girl, and get extra pissy. Some even cheat, give lame sportsman points, and generally be bitter lil turds.

If Im playing a tourney- I generally let the TO know right away- I'm not gonna risk losing a tourney by a point or two because of a temper tantrum.

This is one of the good sides to playing at a store that has some of the more skilled/competitive gamers- they tend to weed out the tantrum types. The sore loser types wont generally keep going somewhere they always lose

But, just like with adults- there are good an bad ones. The good ones I'll try to help, the bad can go sulk in a corner.

garret wrote:or they could do chores around the house and earn the money. Thats what I did until I got a job.

You did chores and got money?

You lucky devil. My room and board were my pay...

Rico.

garret wrote:or they could do chores around the house and earn the money. Thats what I did until I got a job.

Around 12 is when my parents stopped paying for chores, and expecting it to be done.
It's also when I first got into paintball, and had to get a job reffing at the field that I played at to pay for everything.

Not everyone has the same situation as you or I.

garret wrote:or they could do chores around the house and earn the money. Thats what I did until I got a job.

How do you know they don't?

Whether the kid hands over the cash or the parent does, it's still ultimately coming out of the parent's pocket. You have no idea whether or not a given parent only buys when they feel their child has done something to deserve it, or whether or not the kid has racked up 'credit' at home.

And some parents simply don't believe in forcing their children to earn their cash. Some schools of parenting consider that to be one step above slave labor, and all sorts of wrong. If the kid wants something, and you can afford it, you buy it. Some call that 'spoiling your kids'... and some just call it 'providing for them'...


It's not really fair to judge based purely on what you see. You're only getting a small part of the story.

kids cheat because of ADD, like when an inexperienced driver gets into an accident, they didn't mean to, but it still happens. TFG cheats because he's an a**hole, like the roadrage a**hole who tailgates. So which is worse, the kid who cheats on accident because he doesn't fully read/ understand the rules and pay attention to the game, or the older gamers who cheat even though they should know better and have no excuse?

*And no, let's not talk about ADD*

There actually use to be an age limit on Games Workshop products. Well, more of a recommended age.

The kids now are absolutely out of control. My local Games Workshop has basically turned into a babysitting service. I've seen kids assembling stuff on the floor, gluing all over the place unsupervised, leaving paint stations messy (open paint, unwashed brushes lying around) and screaming at each other over who's space marines are better. AND, the lack of ANY attempt to paint their models is particularly shocking. Obviously I'm not expecting a Golden Demon standard, but seriously, primer armies are NOT cool (Or sticking ion cannons on top of railguns on top of lascannons with too much glue... *shudder*). I've always stuck to "painted models ONLY" before using an army, despite having folded a couple times with friends.

Also, THIS IS AN EXPENSIVE HOBBY. If the parents of these kids assume that these are just toys (which they are... really) that the kids will run through and just give up, then that's horrible news for the future of Games Workshop. It's shocking at the amount of money they're willing to spend, and the total lack of interest in what their kids are doing. Who actually wants to leave their 8-year-old alone at a store full of strangers? I think if the parents took an active interest in their kids interests then I think we'd get more out of the "future of the hobby".

I remember when I first started the hobby (almost 10 years ago), I was super shy and was pretty quiet around the store. I'm sure a lot of people didn't expect me to stick with the hobby, but the staff at GW (Scarborough Town Centre for any Canadians!) were absolutely amazing in 1) teaching me how to paint and play the game, 2) helping me get games with people and 3) gave awesome hobby advice. AND, everyone there was super friendly and helpful in teaching me the game (and they probably went easy on me too, since I went undefeated for awhile )

I think that as soon as those staff members moved on, I think there was a huge decline in helping out young kids. I think as soon as Games Workshop staff began trying to push out the product and got into this sell sell sell mentality that's when kids started showing up extra bratty, just because they've never been actually TAUGHT the game/hobby, and have basically just been told when they got into the hobby that, "OH YEAH THIS _________ (insert newest or most expensive set) IS AWESOME, ASK YOUR PARENTS TO GET THIS FOR YOU BECAUSE IT'LL REALLY HELP OUT YOUR ARMY". *sigh*

So! The point is:
1) I think younger gamers nowadays are a lot less fun to play with, but only because nobody has the patience or cares enough to teach them without getting angry or demolishing them to stroke their own ego.
2) Like any activity kids partake in, the parents should be supportive (more than financially) and try to take an active role in their kids hobbies/interests.
3) Games Workshop is partly to blame, as their efforts to just sell sell sell damages the hobby because instead of developing longtime hobbyists (who WILL support the hobby), they rope in kids who will buy a lot of stuff at one time then abandon the hobby as they get older.

/endrant.

Note: Apologies to anyone who actually read all of what I just typed out.

im actually one of the youngest there i think.
i mean i make mistakes(such as questioning the tactic of a experienced player then he got mad but then he apoligesed a week later.)
actually alot of people my place is pretty tolerant of younlings an kinda like teaching them.

If you don't know the rules, fluff, or me as a friend I won't play you. Knowing your opponent makes all the difference between a good experience and a bad one. I bet if HMBC and JWDD were friends they would fight less.

Punkisntdeadyet, I can 100% relate with that.
That's actually how the paintball field I worked at all through middle+high school got to be when the original owner got bought out, and man it was a mess running birthday parties for 6 year olds with CO2 powered weapons that cause tears in that age group.

But man, some of the parents were hilarious when they found out how much it hurt when they played too.

Apologies for the double post but I read some of the comments and feel like responding!

Yes, when I started there was absolutely NO WAY for me to pay for the hobby. Yes my parents shelved out a LOT of money for this hobby. But unlike other parents who just drop the money on the hobby and let their kids go crazy, mine were super supportive and made me stick with it. They helped me paint, glue and assemble my stuff. My dad even picked up the rules to learn how to play just to keep my company in case nobody wanted to play with me. Yes it was probably a pain in the butt for them, but like the GW staff who helped me with the hobby, it REALLY was fantastic to have that support. And the proof is now I'm into the hobby, and understand the value of what other people did for me.

And really, if a kids parents shelve out the money for the hobby, is it REALLY any different than dropping hundreds of dollars on sports equipment? What I take offence to is not the fact that the parents are shelving out hundreds of dollars onto their kids hobbies, but that they simply DON'T CARE. Imagine if someone bought their kid the best baseball equipment they could, dropped them off at their games, but never took the time to throw a baseball with them. (I'm using baseball because I assume a lot Americans are on here, but swap for hockey, cricket, golf or any other sport ) I have never seen a parent in Games Workshop with the "bratty" kids, actively taking part in their kids hobby. I've seen them walk them into the store, give them money for lunch then leave them there for a few hours before picking them up.

*sigh* I'm getting too preachy so I'll stop now.

Dangit, Punk. You keep posting things I can agree with.
My dad got into it when I did, having assembled+painted highly detailed model kits when he was my age when I started(13), and to this day builds really expensive train kits.

Now he has a far, far more active Chaos Marine army than my lil' Daemonhunters/Guard contingent ever has been.
In fact, I used to use his Red Corsair army as my own for most games, and we built it up so we could each split up for days where we both had time to game at the FLGS before it closed down. Hell, his Father's Day gift from me is that gorgeous Khornate Daemon Prince model from Forgeworld to go with his up and coming World Eaters contingent for his CSM.

I guess your right.
my mom kind of cares. she drives me to the campaign so i can watch. she also ask me about my models and how there doing.

I was 8 when I first played Space Hulk, open wargames were a bit complicated but a board game was straightforward and fun.

I wouldn't play with kids in a shop though. I'd play with *my* kids when I have some, but I wouldn't play with other people's kids if I didn't know them. I've seen temper tantrums and stuff being thrown around and well...in my hobby it's my time and I like to spend it with people who show a similar level of interest and maturity.

I recall, through a friend, hearing of an event where a kid who lost threw a tantrum because it hadn't gone his way and turned the table over throwing everything onto the floor.

chromedog wrote:

For most it is a fad they will outgrow. Some kids will stay in the hobby.

Wiser words of wisdom have seldom been spoken. I believe we should all learn to show a little sympathy. Even the GODS of warhammer were but nubes at one point in the timestream.
There is a friend at my club who REALLY hates the little kids. They take up tables, the don't have the codexes, the ask stupid questions...It goes on. But I think that kids are a good (for want of a better word) investment. Some will get over 40k and move on, but some may grow to become enjoyable opponents.

I myself use to collect Brettonians just becuase they LOOKED cool. I never played a match with them. And when I got guard, it was years before me and my friends in Dubai (who mostly outgrew it last I heard) played a serious game. Mostly we mucked about, mainly becuase no one was willing to teach us how to have an enjoyable concise game.

Sidstyler wrote:

You'd think this place was run by the British or something.

....Excuse me?

In all seriousness and back OT, its the same story with many things especially kids, I normally do it by a case by case basis, if someones new and wants to learn the game in an appropriate manner I have no problem teaching them, I've even ask my opponents consent and give them one of my units to control for a few games with me so they can learn the basic rules.

Of course if the kid is a little feth head then its a different story. Its too easy though to lump all kids into the same catagory, but again I have met adults who act worse than children (one guy I played at my first GT literally threw his teddy out the pram because I beat him I honestly thought he was going to hit me.)

Oh I say old chap, that was blimey well uncalled for! Wot, wot.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Oh I say old chap, that was blimey well uncalled for! Wot, wot.

Its such a shame not very many people in Britain talk like that anymore, hell I don't even have an accent and i'm from Birmingham.

Right! Tenshun!
Today we'll shall be marching lads!
Where sergeant you say?

Well, we shall be marching UP AND DOWN THE SQUAAARE!!!!!!

(I love monty python)

Some accents nowadays is like skissers (scissors) being scraped on a iron file nowadays though.

....Excuse me?

The whole CCTV, Big Brother state and criminals rights being respected over the victims, etc...I hear a lot from people who live there that the UK is a hell hole and I was just joking around about that, implying that it was so bad that it would be a law there not to make fun of yourself. Since...it'd be like harassment.

feth I dunno, it was a bad joke.

Oh I say old chap, that was blimey well uncalled for! Wot, wot.

I see a lot of crap around here that's uncalled for, doesn't stop anyone else.

hey, I was paying out the British TOO by saying that dipstick.

Dipstick? What the feth? You wanna go?! I'll roll you like a donut!

Sidstyler wrote:

....Excuse me?

The whole CCTV, Big Brother state and criminals rights being respected over the victims, etc...I hear a lot from people who live there that the UK is a hell hole and I was just joking around about that, implying that it was so bad that it would be a law there not to make fun of yourself. Since...it'd be like harassment.

feth I dunno, it was a bad joke.

Oh I say old chap, that was blimey well uncalled for! Wot, wot.

I see a lot of crap around here that's uncalled for, doesn't stop anyone else.

With the UK its alot about where you live, there are nice parts and there are bad parts, i'm pretty sure tis the same in America.

And to be fair making fun of ourselves is all we have left, failing that Gordon Brown he's usually an easy target.

Now if only we had our empire back.....*mumbles Imperialist wonderings*

Dragging the thread kicking and screaming back on topic

I actually think kids playing can be a positive experience, BUT it is incumbent on older gamers and staff members/club organisers etc to be mature.

In my experience any child that is involved in a hobby where they interact with adults tends to be much more rounded and socially capable - Re-enactors kids tend to be great, as do those who play in mixed-age-group bands or participate in sports where age is not a factor such as snooker, bowls or fishing.

That said, if the older gamers are prone to temper tantrums, obnoxious behaviour and generally being TFG, the kids will think that this is normal behaviour. A well run gaming event with just the right balance between fun and (self)discipline will help create younger gamers who are a pleasure to play against.

Just my $0.02

Goddamit Sidstler! Why do you take offense to someone who is on your bloody side?

And anyway, I can pay out both you're countries.

UK: Well, actually BBC programs are a blessing (Dr Who), but many of you're kind sound like cats having knifefights.

US: Look, I used to live overseas for several years. In Dubai (that's the middle east). Let's just say that you country is NOT the most popular in the world. And you're people talk funny too.

AUS: How many times can God himself say COOL!

Will there ever be enough of these threads ? Im a teen , and i have been colecting these since i whas 8 ! I dont concider myself annoying , neither do the adults at my club ... infact there are some adults there who act like babys all the time ! I guess there are many that arent like some guys and me that can annoy you and others , but think before you post some thing along the lines of :

"Should i rewrite this ? Should i post this ? Does this make me look stupid ? Can this offend many people without a reason ? etc..."

Yes , no , yes , yes are the answers to this stupid , ignorant thread...

Gretar

My biggest issue with kids is their short attention span. More than once I have come near to outright yelling at them to stop looking around at what everybody else is doing and roll the damned dice.

Sirius42 wrote:besides, we were all space marine collecting kids at some point.

I must be the exception, i was DE kids for one year and then swapped out for Eldar, but if the new dex hits im going back to were i started.

Elfie all the way!

SM (I blame the starter sets), then Eldar, and now I just paint.

Whether black or white, young or old, cylon or human.

A spanker is a spanker is a spanker.
I've met old ones and young ones, I don't care to hang around with kids because I'm 32 and frankly I think that would earn some odd looks, that and I find the noise level and so on tiresome. It's another reason I can't stand in GW shops for long, the noise drives me nuts, kids and redshirts.

I don't really like kids much, not their fault and I can get along with smart ones that only ask interesting questions. I do admire the lack of inbuilt prejudice and cynicism I now possess in metric tons and when a kid was telling me about his space marine chapter and all the cool guys in it I was genuinely happy to listen to him use his imagination.

I play 40k at tables in friends houses, several of my friends smoke and we all swear, drink beer and eat gak food (40k = get in the snacks). I like playing my toy soldier game that way, with the same friends I go to the pub with or sit n play linkup NWN2 with.

I try not to dish out too many anecdotes but I feel this is probably a good place to mention one.

When I first got into the hobby and started attending my local gaming club I was only about 11 years old. I played with my friends until we had learned (most of ) the rules and then we started playing with the older gamers. In one of these games my older opponent had some of his mates show up to the game to watch. At first they where fine but then they started acting rowdy, half way through the game they pulled out a tennis ball and started throwing it at each other, needless to say things escalated until the ball flew across the table and hit my commander, snapping him from his base at his ankles. The base didn't move but the body flew across to the other side of the room and upon hitting the ground shattered into many pieces. These two full grown men then didn't even apologize but just started laughing. This is something that has stuck with me for many years.
Recently a couple of young kids have joined our gaming club, neither of them are older than 12 but they conduct themselves in a respectful manner and understand not only the basics of 40k strategy but they also know that there is more for them to learn, it is good fun to battle with and against them.

So yea, lets not base maturity on age.

Foldalot wrote:These two full grown men then didn't even apologize but just started laughing. This is something that has stuck with me for many years.

Yeah, being a gak is not age defined, you will be meeting them when your wheeled next to each other on the porch of the retirement home. Some remain alittle further down the ladder for their whole lives.

Cheese Elemental wrote:We all see those kids in gaming stores, right? From the peewees to the pre-teens who have a raging passion for Ultramarines. What's your opinion on these younger gamers? How do you interact with them?

Now, I'm one of the younger people at my FLGS (at least, one of the youngest who play competitively), but I don't really feel any sympathy towards kids. They swagger in, all confident that their Ultramarines/Cadians/generic whatever army is the best in the store. Then when you wipe the floor with them, they get all butthurt about it and storm out of the store following a lot of crying and accusations of cheating.

There should really be an age limit on this hobby. If kids weren't allowed to play, Space Marines wouldn't outsell everything else.

Thoughts?

1. Why the hell do you care what sells best?

2. In my almost 19 years of playing 40K I have seen just as many "adults" act "butthurt" and "storm out of the store".

3. It's fun being a "cool kid" and making fun of ultramarines, but fact is most DIY chapters/armeis look like ass, have crap background and are not half as "unique' as the owner thinks they are.

4. Kids are th future of this hobby. The fact that anyone in their pre-teens or teens is still playing miniature games at all in this age of instant gratification and computer game dominance is a miracle and a very good thing. Don't be so quick to drive them away if you want this hobby to be around in 10-15 years.

5. This hobby IS a kids hobby. Its glorified toy soldiers. Many "adults" need to take a deep breathe, accept this and stop pretending it is such serious business.

Give kids a chance - they are the future of this hobby

My opinion is...

There are a few types of younger gamers
1) the wants to learn how to play
2) the over enthusiastic kid
3) the liar
4) the cool kid

At any time in the early stages of a little gamers life they can be or have been that kid.

As older gamers we need to show them proper ways of gaming by example, this includes
a) how to win well/how not to be a D7CK
b) how to lose well/how to accept setbacks
c) how to not be TFG

Honestly. The kids in the game store need people to lead by example... just don't be creepy as you show them!

Although I'm not particularly fond of them, I'll game with them. But as soon as trouble starts, I walk out.

Luckily I've not run into alot of trouble, so... yeah.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:We should all have to pass some sort of test.

Can you find three or more badly written rules, unclear examples or ambiguities in [Insert Codex Here] on your first read through. Those that can't are either too young to play, or GW apologists.

[EDIT]: I also find it hilarious that Cheese's own 'attack me' thread was locked for not being polite. Dakka Dakka - the only place where the Mods can warn you for insulting yourself!!!

Hey! We just don't tolerate self abuse here.

frgsinwntr wrote:My opinion is...

There are a few types of younger gamers
1) the wants to learn how to play
2) the over enthusiastic kid
3) the liar
4) the cool kid

At any time in the early stages of a little gamers life they can be or have been that kid.

As older gamers we need to show them proper ways of gaming by example, this includes
a) how to win well/how not to be a D7CK
b) how to lose well/how to accept setbacks
c) how to not be TFG

Honestly. The kids in the game store need people to lead by example... just don't be creepy as you show them!

Well you forgot the painting-only types :

The my-mini-is-cooler-than-yours kid

The one thats fine with the way his models are

the one that is constantly learning

And also you should remember you can be two types (painting and gaming) for an example i once played the cool kid who whas also the over enthusiastic kid , imagine that !

Gretar

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Whether black or white, young or old, cylon or human.

A spanker is a spanker is a spanker.
I've met old ones and young ones, I don't care to hang around with kids because I'm 32 and frankly I think that would earn some odd looks, that and I find the noise level and so on tiresome. It's another reason I can't stand in GW shops for long, the noise drives me nuts, kids and redshirts.

I don't really like kids much, not their fault and I can get along with smart ones that only ask interesting questions. I do admire the lack of inbuilt prejudice and cynicism I now possess in metric tons and when a kid was telling me about his space marine chapter and all the cool guys in it I was genuinely happy to listen to him use his imagination.

I play 40k at tables in friends houses, several of my friends smoke and we all swear, drink beer and eat gak food (40k = get in the snacks). I like playing my toy soldier game that way, with the same friends I go to the pub with or sit n play linkup NWN2 with.

I find your post insulting to Cylons. I've never had a problem in any game I've played against Cylons, either in tin can or Bylon form.

5. This hobby IS a kids hobby. Its glorified toy soldiers. Many "adults" need to take a deep breathe, accept this and stop pretending it is such serious business.

I completely agree with everything you've said. Except with point 5.

I don't think that wargaming is a kids hobby. I think it's been mentioned before in other threads, but a lot of the topics mentioned in the fluff are pretty intense and definitely not for an eight year old (i.e. genocide, xenophobia, the whole Imperium/Inquisition really) and if a kid just reads this stuff at face value, I'm not sure how appropriate it is. Before, it definitely was a kids hobby. A lot of the fluff (especially in the Orc and Goblin army book) was hilarious and goofy and really fun. I really enjoy the new direction, but still, it would be weird to have a kid come and tell me that "killing everyone on a planet is a totally great and the right response if they disagree with you!". Kids are easily impressed.

BUT, besides that, it takes a certain level of maturity and discipline that most kids don't have. To learn how to assemble, glue, and paint your models properly is something that takes time and patience. Whenever I see a younger players army glued wrong, badly painted (no attempt to stay inside the lines for example), or not painted at all, I'm a little disappointed that no one ever taught them how to or explained a "proper" way of going about the hobby. Now, when I see older folks with the same sort of shenanigans, that just REALLY irks me. These kids will turn into the older folks, and soon the only proper paint jobs will be by Golden Demon painters. Is that what we (as a community) want? While I don't expect anywhere near half the Golden Demon standard for a 12-year-old (if you look at my earlier stuff, I think we'll all laugh), I think it's a reasonable explanation to have them learn basic painting techniques. Whenever I watch current Games Workshop staff teach painting, most of them don't bother explaining why basecoating is important, what drybrushing or highlighting is, or even why you should use primer. They just grab a ratty old brush and just slap paint over the entire model, then talk the kid into the importance of having as many paints as possible (which in turn will lead to an argument between the kid and his/her parents over why the kid should get the aforementioned items).

Yes it's glorified toy soldiers. But it's a shame and a waste for kids (and their parents) to buy a crapload of models and paints, and never take the time to learn how to do it properly.

/offsoapbox.

punkisntdeadyet wrote:

5. This hobby IS a kids hobby. Its glorified toy soldiers. Many "adults" need to take a deep breathe, accept this and stop pretending it is such serious business.

I completely agree with everything you've said. Except with point 5.

I don't think that wargaming is a kids hobby. I think it's been mentioned before in other threads, but a lot of the topics mentioned in the fluff are pretty intense and definitely not for an eight year old (i.e. genocide, xenophobia, the whole Imperium/Inquisition really) and if a kid just reads this stuff at face value, I'm not sure how appropriate it is. Before, it definitely was a kids hobby. A lot of the fluff (especially in the Orc and Goblin army book) was hilarious and goofy and really fun. I really enjoy the new direction, but still, it would be weird to have a kid come and tell me that "killing everyone on a planet is a totally great and the right response if they disagree with you!". Kids are easily impressed.

BUT, besides that, it takes a certain level of maturity and discipline that most kids don't have. To learn how to assemble, glue, and paint your models properly is something that takes time and patience. Whenever I see a younger players army glued wrong, badly painted (no attempt to stay inside the lines for example), or not painted at all, I'm a little disappointed that no one ever taught them how to or explained a "proper" way of going about the hobby. Now, when I see older folks with the same sort of shenanigans, that just REALLY irks me. These kids will turn into the older folks, and soon the only proper paint jobs will be by Golden Demon painters. Is that what we (as a community) want? While I don't expect anywhere near half the Golden Demon standard for a 12-year-old (if you look at my earlier stuff, I think we'll all laugh), I think it's a reasonable explanation to have them learn basic painting techniques. Whenever I watch current Games Workshop staff teach painting, most of them don't bother explaining why basecoating is important, what drybrushing or highlighting is, or even why you should use primer. They just grab a ratty old brush and just slap paint over the entire model, then talk the kid into the importance of having as many paints as possible (which in turn will lead to an argument between the kid and his/her parents over why the kid should get the aforementioned items).

Yes it's glorified toy soldiers. But it's a shame and a waste for kids (and their parents) to buy a crapload of models and paints, and never take the time to learn how to do it properly.

/offsoapbox.

I did not say the content of the game of 40K was good/bad for kids. that is a whole other can of worms.

What i said is that when you boil it down the act of playing a game with tiny toy soldiers IS a kids activity at heart.

Wargaming is a form of what has been a kid's activity for ages. We can talk about how sophisticated and tactical and challenging and complex it is, or whatever but it is still a glorified kid's pastime when all is said and done. To suggets that kids shouldnt play what is essentially a kid's activity is rather ironic...

I absolutely I agree.

All that talk about tactics is a totally different topic. I think we're on the same page!

insaniak wrote: (1)Whether the kid hands over the cash or the parent does, it's still ultimately coming out of the parent's pocket. You have no idea whether or not a given parent only buys when they feel their child has done something to deserve it, or whether or not the kid has racked up 'credit' at home.

(2)And some parents simply don't believe in forcing their children to earn their cash. Some schools of parenting consider that to be one step above slave labor, and all sorts of wrong. If the kid wants something, and you can afford it, you buy it. Some call that 'spoiling your kids'... and some just call it 'providing for them'...

I marked those 1 and 2

1. That is very common around here in Iceland . The kid does all sorts of jobs the parent whants to get a break from them . Or becouse they have asked the kid a billion times and the kid never does it unless getting an award for it . Thats not slavery at all , its called 'teaching life' correclty translated from Icelandic to English . I , for one , have to clean my room , vacoom the whole house and baby sit my little brother(for 6 hours) to get one trip to the store and get to buy something . Why ? My dad wants me to be more neat(clean) around the house and my room , and he takes those 6 hours off his back to go on a date or something . I think its perfectly fair.

2. They should belivie in forcing their children to do stuff they normaly would'nt . Orelse the kid goes out of the house at the age of (?) and does'nt know anything about keeping a household . Its not slavery , its teaching ...

'spoiling your kids'... and some just call it 'providing for them'... = its called spoiling , only the ones that say otherwice are the ones that do this

Gretar

When I first started I was 13, so I was just starting high school the next year, and my parents were happy to get me into the hobby, and about 6 months in I found my FLGS, as before that, being new in Cape Town, I didn't know where/if you could buy warhammer here in South Africa, but when I did, it was a like a godsend, the gamers there were really helpful with me, helped me out, as before that I was playing with friends, and we didn't know the rules as well as we should, but the older gamers helped me alot at the store, and those holidays I played in the league that they had going, beat their number 1 ranked, jumped to the top and stayed there for a good couple of weeks.

Now, 8 years on, most of the old timers have left the club through moving away, etc, so now being one of the oldest at the club it is up to me, and 3 or 4 others to teach the young kids how to play well, but what I hate now a days is that most of them are rude rich pukes who act like they own the world and their parents buy everything for them, I am not saying all of them are like that, but 50-60% of them are, but I am patient with them, and so after a few weeks most of come to the realization that they aren't the center of the world, and settle down.

Sorry for the ramble, but as long as you can be patient with kids, help them to play, correct them, etc etc, then they are fine.

Frazzled wrote:
I find your post insulting to Cylons. I've never had a problem in any game I've played against Cylons, either in tin can or Bylon form.

I only said some cylons were spankers, the dean stockwell ones mostly, oh and the one that got creepy keeping starbuck and telling her they had a baby on new caprica and that camp bastard Lucifer from the original ones, especially him... He has a DoC army for fantasy...

I was the youngest kid in my group when I started playing 10 years ago, and now Im the only one in my early 20s in my current group. There are a few older gents, and a few younger. And everyone has their quirks. I really haven't changed much in those 10 years, emotion wise. I play to have fun, laugh at myself when I get bad rolls, and joke around in general, but I also love to learn. If someone can teach me something, be it about painting, modeling, or the strategy of the game, Ill listen.

There are some younger kids in the group (13-15) that do tend to talk.....ALOT. But its at that breaking point that you want to snap his little neck for asking the same stupid question for the 20th time in 2 weeks, you have to remember your the adult, your looked up to in some of these kids eyes, especially if your really good with your army, and these kids are looking for your advice to make themselves better.

I fine with having younger kids in the hobby. But, as a parent, I don't understand how someone is dropping off a 12 year old at a store for the day. The store is not a daycare service and parents shouldn't expect it to be. I'd be fine with a store requiring that a minor (or even just someone under 15) to have a parent or guardian 'present' (next store at the coffee shop would probably be okay). Plus, from a liability standpoint, I don't understand stores letting kids in without parents. If one kid gets cut on a hobby knife, I can see the lawsuit for failure to adequately supervise their kids (even though the store shouldn't be responsible for it, it could be a play to get a quick out of court cast settlement).

I for one can say I loathed the Space Marines and I will always loathe them in a way. To answer the topic question... I hate children. However, they are a big part of the game...

-J.

gretar wrote:Will there ever be enough of these threads ? Im a teen , and i have been colecting these since i whas 8 ! I dont concider myself annoying , neither do the adults at my club ... infact there are some adults there who act like babys all the time ! I guess there are many that arent like some guys and me that can annoy you and others , but think before you post some thing along the lines of :

"Should i rewrite this ? Should i post this ? Does this make me look stupid ? Can this offend many people without a reason ? etc..."

Yes , no , yes , yes are the answers to this stupid , ignorant thread...

Gretar

Are you a Tau player?

kids are cool.. brats are not.

Honestly, I prefer the little quiet kid who doesn't know the rules and respectfully fawns over your models to the bearded college who love the sound of his own voice.

Kilkrazy wrote:

gretar wrote:Will there ever be enough of these threads ? Im a teen , and i have been colecting these since i whas 8 ! I dont concider myself annoying , neither do the adults at my club ... infact there are some adults there who act like babys all the time ! I guess there are many that arent like some guys and me that can annoy you and others , but think before you post some thing along the lines of :

"Should i rewrite this ? Should i post this ? Does this make me look stupid ? Can this offend many people without a reason ? etc..."

Yes , no , yes , yes are the answers to this stupid , ignorant thread...

Gretar

Are you a Tau player?

No , im a SM , Ork and LoTR PAINTER I barely play Why ask ?

Kids don't bother me as long as they can conduct themselves in a mature manner. I've seen plenty of so called 'adults' act more immaturely than most kids, so it can go both ways. Bottom line is... Don't be an asshat!

gretar wrote: Im a teen , and i have been colecting these since i whas 8 ! I dont concider myself annoying

Most people don't. I dont but alot of people at school say i am. but none(as far as i know) at the gaming club. there preety tolerant of new young players.
the only time people get mad is when they cant find a place to watch that wont interfer with the game

I'm 24.

Children can be a nuisance, especially when you're not playing against them. It's been my experience that they don't know the rules, and they talk way too much. Ignoring the Ultramarines love and all that. I had to endure three hours of a kid talking about Black Templar at me while we were trying to play a few games at our store the other day. However, I find that dealing with kids gives you a chance to teach by example. Keep on doing your thing, don't get pissed off about the rules, don't get angry when you measure your blast marker and count six of their guys, and they count five, don't get angry when you count five of your guys under the marker, and they count six. These kids are going to grow up into adults, so you can show them how adults interact.

However, who I hate are OLDER GAMERS. I swear I'm going to throttle the next person who goes on an hour long diatribe about how AD&D was so much better. Shut up, and roll your Dragonkin Warlock, we're up to 4th Edition now. Older gamers are the biggest whiners, they know everything, and every ten minutes you have to correct them on a rule ("Oh, well, that's how we did it in 4th Edition." "SHUT UP THIS IS FIFTH EDITION READ YOUR RULEBOOK"). And they have a hundred thousand stories you have to endure to get through an interaction with them.

I've had far more bad experiences at the hands of (allegedly) grown adults than teens and kids. Given a choice between an immature but trying tweener and the Shenanigans and downright cheating some adults perpetrate, I'll take the tweener every time.

It's all about personal maturity and not age.

Everyone has to start somewhere - give the kids a break otherwise they will turn into to arse adults

TO be quite honest as a younger player myself (17)i like opponents who act as yoiu should whne playign a game, your losing so what !? enjoy it.

I always enjoy being beat cause i can just laugh at how badly it is going it's When opponents start screamingand shouting because some serious damage has been done tio their force, because they underestimate certain troops.

So generally, i dont mind kids as long as they act maturly, if they dont, thats when i start having problems.

athba wrote:Everyone has to start somewhere - give the kids a break otherwise they will turn into to arse adults

Or worse, leave The Hobby and become just another poopsocking WoW player.

Be kind to young players. Them is what us were (was?).

What i really hate is when, a kid comes in and buys a whole army randomly . . . . because his dad is paying for it


I remember that when i was that age i had to save all my tiny pocket money to buy models

then its natural that they treat models (and hobby in general ) as a toy and not a proper hobby

but as always one cannot generalize...

I think someone else said this before, but these kids playing now are our hobbies future. If we want someone to yell at and talk about how great 5th ed was, we need to keep them around.

karnaeya wrote:kids are cool.. brats are not.

Which is true for every age.

Doctor Optimal wrote:
Or worse, leave The Hobby and become just another poopsocking WoW player.

What the hell is a poopsock, and why is it a verb?

I'm a younger gamer. My interest in the hobby has recently drifeted into the fluff part, and instead of going over the rule book to make sure I understan it, you'd more likely see me reading 15 Hours for the 6th time. I haven't played as often as i would like, but am cool with that. I don't want to be constantly pestering people with questions and such, so I the games I have played were generally the starter missions in Battle for Macragge. I know I that everyone can be a douche at times in the hobby, same as life.
if i see a little kid playing the hobby, and he/she needs help with something that i can help them with, I'll gladly do so, so long as they don't turn into a brat.

Also, Maturity Based Test to allow you to enter the hobby sounds like an awesome idea.

Cheese Elemental wrote:We all see those kids in gaming stores, right? From the peewees to the pre-teens who have a raging passion for Ultramarines. What's your opinion on these younger gamers? How do you interact with them?

Now, I'm one of the younger people at my FLGS (at least, one of the youngest who play competitively), but I don't really feel any sympathy towards kids. They swagger in, all confident that their Ultramarines/Cadians/generic whatever army is the best in the store. Then when you wipe the floor with them, they get all butthurt about it and storm out of the store following a lot of crying and accusations of cheating.

There should really be an age limit on this hobby. If kids weren't allowed to play, Space Marines wouldn't outsell everything else.

Thoughts?

A thought? I think a post like this coming from you is priceless.

I don't have an issue with kids playing the game. If someone gets out of line, the sharkpit pins thier ears back, and they figure out whats really going on.
The kids around here that play mind themselves or get run off. We help ours out, and it is kinda interesting to teach this game to someone elses kid, when you would think Pop would be in thier along side little junior, or junette and play with them as well.

In the GW shops, there are quite a few babysitting sessions, but if the kid is doing thier thing, and not beeing disruptive, that should be a good thing for the shop.
FLGS's are just that, friendly. You WANT these kids there, or you are going to find that the game is going to die out, if you don't pass ity along, and bring them along in the game. Either that, or you get to winess excerpts of The Excorcist, when the kids start up, and you get to put up with it.

If one of those kids gives you static, make an example out of one or two, and they figure out pretty quick if they want to continue being an attention whore.

We have a great group of kids around here, and the quality of thier gaming is an example for kids everywhere. It wasn't always like that, and it took effort, but on the whole, your issue is not my issue.

I'm not that old myself, very much a younger gamer myself(Although I don't like the way that always seems derogatory), but because I'm a regular I'm treated fairly well, worse than some of the younger than me gamers even, at my store. At my store the youngest one I've seen is around 6 and quite a few are in the 11-13 range, but I treat them no differently than I do anybody else and if they look like they need help, or even ask for me it then I'm happy enough to help then, and play against them(Even when most duck out early to get picked up..).

But I have had my share of the ones where I've had to grin and bear it, for instance when I was sat down painting and a 13 year old decided my face looked better covered in Games Workshop snow, or that my friends 'left to dry' elves looked better in his hands after not asking. I just asked him to stop and whatnot I didn't get as angry as I probably should have been with fake snow dropping from me..But, as I have said, I treat the ones younger than me just as I would treat others, and I feel I get treated in an equal way, so far I have yet to meet an older gamer who does anything different.

Any kids come into my store looking to learn to play, I just steamroll them. If they emoragequit, they were not wanted anyway, if they come back for more and to learn, then they are what is wanted in a gamer.

I was a younger gamer. We all were younger gamers.

GoFenris wrote:I was a younger gamer. We all were younger gamers.

Yes, but not all of us were "That" Younger Gamer.

GoFenris wrote:I was a younger gamer. We all were younger gamers.

Until we are old ones

I was a kick-ass younger gamer. Polite, well-spoken and I owned people much much older than me. Granted I was a card game/heroclix guru though.

Gwar! wrote:Any kids come into my store looking to learn to play, I just steamroll them. If they emoragequit, they were not wanted anyway, if they come back for more and to learn, then they are what is wanted in a gamer.

There's no need to troll this thread too y'know.

Bookwrack wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Any kids come into my store looking to learn to play, I just steamroll them. If they emoragequit, they were not wanted anyway, if they come back for more and to learn, then they are what is wanted in a gamer.

There's no need to troll this thread too y'know.

Not trolling, just giving my opinion

Gwar! wrote:

Bookwrack wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Any kids come into my store looking to learn to play, I just steamroll them. If they emoragequit, they were not wanted anyway, if they come back for more and to learn, then they are what is wanted in a gamer.

There's no need to troll this thread too y'know.

Not trolling, just giving my opinion

Ha, of course you are.

I know from your posting history that you're certainly not so dumb as to think that's a good idea.

Hmm, although then again, going by your post history, you might be enough of TFG to think that's a good idea. Hmm, oh dear.

Haha, well as I said in a thread a while back, that is how I teach kids. I don't hold back. I teach them, but I will beat them. 90% of the kids I have taught have come back for more and want to learn. It was how I learnt, so it's good enough for them

Of course, if you'd actually 'steamrolled' then, then not only would your percentage be reversed, I'd highly doubt that even 1 out of 10 would be interested in more games, especially against you. For someone as post-a-riffic about the rules as you, I'd expect you'd be a bit more apt in your terminology. Coddling and steamrolling might be on the opposite ends of the spectrum, but it's not a binary situation.

Yeah Bookwrack, he and I had this "discussion". Good luck.

Bookwrack wrote:
What the hell is a poopsock, and why is it a verb?

Poopsocking is when you WoW (or any game, really, but mostly WoW) so hard that you won't get up from your desk for anything.

...
Who POOPS in a SOCK!? Honestly!

With me personally working in a game store I must deal with young kids all the time. They can be quite annoying but then theres that one that really wants to learn or the 13 year old who loves the group. You put up with them and they learn by example to calm down sometimes lol there kids it happens. Now me myself being a young gamer (almost 18 yay!) I know what its like on both sides.

But if I HATE older gamers they always know more than you always..... even when they have no idea what there talking about talking out of there arse about everything and will butt in your game to attempt to prove you wrong those people are the ones I hate. I like playing for fun and I am a tad competative so I do like concentrating and don't like being disturbed as much while playing. Just gets annoying sometimes I'm all for jokin but I also don't like being at the table for 8 hours haha.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

I play 40k at tables in friends houses, several of my friends smoke and we all swear, drink beer and eat gak food (40k = get in the snacks). I like playing my toy soldier game that way, with the same friends I go to the pub with or sit n play linkup NWN2 with.

That's the only way I would ever play a game, and that's the reason why I probably never will. I'm far too old to start hanging around at my local games workshop with the awkward teenagers, and the often equally awkward adults. Thus my hobby is limited to a bit of collecting and painting. It's not the kids fault though. They're the ones the hobby is meant for, and it's not their fault old buggers like me don't want to hang around with them. At the end of the day, I'm the sad grown up playing toy soldiers.

i am over 30..... personally i like to game against anyone, but i much rather trade with kids because they wont try to squeeze an extra buck in trade out of you.....they want what they want and will trade fast for it.

I've never ever had a teenager (13-17) throw a tantrum that comes close to rivaling an adult.. I think its easier to just pick on the kids and say they arent mature.

The reason? We can tell a kid "stop being a baby and grow up" or "you're just an immature kid who doesnt blah blah blah" or "You dont know what youre talking about cause im the adult blah blah"

Yet when an adult does it (especially the over 40 guys) people just take it and dont say gak to them.. Thats the real problem. IF we want kids to be more mature we need to man up and tell the cry baby adults that they need to calm down, take a deep breath and realize that in a game of probability they wont get their way every time

Seriously, for all the talk about immature kids Ive only ever met adults who acted like this.. Ive been in this hobby since I was 13 as well

I guess I am lucky. I have never seen an adult freak out (seen several child tantrums). I have seen people be curt to one another in tournaments, but when money is on the line some people become douche bags. Completely understandable.

It is a hobby, and should be taken fairly seriously.

Some kids do take it flippantly, these weakling are often weeded out after a while.
But, really, to be honest, I have seen more heated arguments amongst the older playas. (16-19). The little kids (if they disagree) almost always come to us first. Pretty much everyone (especially the kids) want to have fun, I have never really seen anything like a temper tantrum. (In our club)

I can only remember one adult having a temper tantrum, and this was when I was about 13-14.

I was still one of the younger gamers at the store, and I played this Chaos player (back when it was still a unified army book), who did the whole Tzeentch wizard monstrosity. Obviously, I get clobbered. But the guy would curse loudly whenever he rolled badly (not like it mattered, I mean 13 power dice against my 4 dispel dice means you'll do fine even if you don't get a spell off) and just act like a five year old if something went wrong.

He never bothered to tell me how to get better either, just commented on how "yeah that unit can't be killed" and "yup, my magic is pretty *effing* good".

*sigh*

hmmm, it can kind of crush someone new to the game if they don't get advice and don't know why they keep getting curshed.
In my earlier years of teaching (I was about 14 teaching 10-12's) I even let them win some games.

Well I don't think you should let people win, either.

Depending on your agenda, letting people win can be downright smart.
First of all, I don't waste my time playing pick-up games. When I introduce a new player to the game, it will be done over a series of games, not a single one.
When I teach a new player I tell them that while I won't roll out all the nasty tricks and play 110 %, I will not LET them win.
Then about game 3 or 4, usually 1000 points games, I'll make sure they win. So wether or not they are actually making progress, they will have the feeling of making progress which is just as important. It has worked a treat every time (both of them) and they are now active players with armies of their own.

Using the gwar! approach is only recommended if you desire no new members of the hobby or if you feel the need to compensate for something.

Man, I'm 13 I hate vsing Older teen's like 16 or 17 here's a story:
I was at my local GW and we play a mission where everyone had troop choice under 200 points, the idea was to run your squad up the table as fast as possible and one of the modle had a relic or somthing so if you kill that model the whole squad was killed (and you got to chose the dead modle).
So the whole first turn was boring so I decided to do something else so I shot my plasma gun and cannon in to a tightly pack BA Tactical squad and killing 7 of the ten and kill the model with the relic thus losing his squad. Then gose spaz at me for not playing the mission proply infront of 4 other people then tries to convice the others to kick me from the game.
The others being smart continue the game with me then next turn I got charged we both lose our squad as well both kill the relic holder.

Well there some people don't grow up, I dont usally go anymore this guys a regluar and well hasn't liked me and likes to point out my slight defaults in my army which is usally followed up with "My list's are friendly not chessy" I perfure playing with my friends.

Steelmage99 wrote:Using the gwar! approach is only recommended if you desire no new members of the hobby or if you feel the need to compensate for something.

Yes, Gwar! is completely and utterly wrong.

Frosty Hardtop wrote: I'm 24.



However, who I hate are OLDER GAMERS. I swear I'm going to throttle the next person who goes on an hour long diatribe about how AD&D was so much better. Shut up, and roll your Dragonkin Warlock, we're up to 4th Edition now. Older gamers are the biggest whiners, they know everything, and every ten minutes you have to correct them on a rule ("Oh, well, that's how we did it in 4th Edition." "SHUT UP THIS IS FIFTH EDITION READ YOUR RULEBOOK"). And they have a hundred thousand stories you have to endure to get through an interaction with them.

Hate to break it to you but if your 24 you will soon be that same guy. Most kids see anyone over 20 as "old" so your already there, you just don't realize it yet...

Cheese Elemental wrote:It's not fair, I say. Stelek got his own 'attack me' thread. I demand equal rights.

I knew Stelek.
You, sir, are no Stelek.


(Sorry, guys. Just couldn't resist).

No insult intended, CE. It'was just too easy to pass up.

On Topic:
Personally, I don't care who they are, as long as they aren't immature whiners or rude "turd dispensers."


Eric

Steelmage99 wrote:Using the gwar! approach is only recommended if you desire no new members of the hobby or if you feel the need to compensate for something.

lalabox wrote:Yes, Gwar! is completely and utterly wrong.

Wow, I didn't know being sensitive was Vouge this Season, must try that next time I am at the bar.

Steelmage, just FYI, out of the 11 Young Kids who have come to my local club to start playing, only a single one has not come back and he was a dick anyway. Every other one of them has come back, asked me to help them improve, and now are pretty solid gamers. They range in age from 10 to 15.

@ MM- Lmao.

On topic.. It depends on the maturity/social skills.

Regardless of age. I'm 38 and I know it all, dont'cha know???????

What? You're 38 and yet still have not aspired to being a GOD OF GAMING? Wow, either there is a lot to this game or you're a slow learner. (kidding) I could be 93, and still learning.

Kids are essential to 40k. Being a jackass to nubes makes you a jerk AND selfish. Share the fun why don't ya?

In my experience, you get jerks of all ages. Those annoying kids, just grow up to be annoying adults.

Noobs, of all ages, are also capable of being jerks, but they are not automatically jerks.

If an invidual is a jerk, cease the game as soon as it becomes annoying, and look for someone less jerky to play. Jerks quickly find themselves alone.

@Akira5665: I'm 41. There are still things you have yet to learn.

There are some younger players I'll happily play against.
Just as there are some older players I won't play against.

I started playing when I was around 10. I think I must have been one of the youngest rules lawyers there was. I even got into a dispute with a redshirt about a hive tyrants stats and won.

Now I'm not sure if that counts as a brat or whatever but generally I played with my friends (at someones house) in massive multiplayer games. Out of all of us I think it would be my brother who would be alloacted "brat" status. He would regularly moan until we agreed to let him play then quit after turn 2.

12 years later I had a game against against said brother and after some bad rolling with his chaos havocs (missed with everything in a single phase) he flipped the board over and quit.

Have now moved to China and havent played him since. And all the younger players I have had the pleasure of playing since are actually pretty cool.

So I guess that puts me in the same position as a lot of others...maturity depends not upon age.

Gwar! wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:Using the gwar! approach is only recommended if you desire no new members of the hobby or if you feel the need to compensate for something.

lalabox wrote:Yes, Gwar! is completely and utterly wrong.

Wow, I didn't know being sensitive was Vouge this Season, must try that next time I am at the bar.

As you so ambly demonstrate, yes, being sensitive is apparently in vogue. As you yourself have pointed out earlier, it is OK to state your oppinion. That fact that you are sensitive about my oppinion is just too bad.

Steelmage, just FYI, out of the 11 Young Kids who have come to my local club to start playing, only a single one has not come back and he was a dick anyway. Every other one of them has come back, asked me to help them improve, and now are pretty solid gamers. They range in age from 10 to 15.

I call BS. I do not believe for a second that you are being truthfull. You don't care that I don't believe you and nothing you could say would convince me otherwise, so no reply is needed.

Please realize that any kind of reply to these statements will simply demonstrate that you are indeed the sensitive one.

Frosty Hardtop wrote: I'm 24.



However, who I hate are OLDER GAMERS. I swear I'm going to throttle the next person who goes on an hour long diatribe about how AD&D was so much better. Shut up, and roll your Dragonkin Warlock, we're up to 4th Edition now. Older gamers are the biggest whiners, they know everything, and every ten minutes you have to correct them on a rule ("Oh, well, that's how we did it in 4th Edition." "SHUT UP THIS IS FIFTH EDITION READ YOUR RULEBOOK"). And they have a hundred thousand stories you have to endure to get through an interaction with them.

Dude I'm 21 I've been through 4 editions of 40k, I sometimes get some rules mixed up as I will remember them from old editions etc etc, some of the time its not being a jerk you just remember the rules as they used to be, I don't mind being corrected if I get a rule wrong or remember an older one, the rulebooks have alot of rules in them, sometimes you just can't help it..jeez man get over yourself.

CT GAMER wrote:

Frosty Hardtop wrote: I'm 24.



However, who I hate are OLDER GAMERS. I swear I'm going to throttle the next person who goes on an hour long diatribe about how AD&D was so much better. Shut up, and roll your Dragonkin Warlock, we're up to 4th Edition now. Older gamers are the biggest whiners, they know everything, and every ten minutes you have to correct them on a rule ("Oh, well, that's how we did it in 4th Edition." "SHUT UP THIS IS FIFTH EDITION READ YOUR RULEBOOK"). And they have a hundred thousand stories you have to endure to get through an interaction with them.

Hate to break it to you but if your 24 you will soon be that same guy. Most kids see anyone over 20 as "old" so your already there, you just don't realize it yet...

Terrified of that concept, trying to avoid it.

We have a number of young players in our group. Some tend to be annoying when they start out. However treat these kids with the same respect that you, yourself expect and they will be open to being tought proper gaming technique and etiquette. Most of the younger guys in our group have grown up to be good players and polite. The others dont last.

I take pleasure in teaching a kid how to be a good gamer. I appreciate my gaming buddys treating my 12 yr old son with respect as well. I dont take pleasure in stomping some kid or newbie (regardless of age) into the ground while i play.. i dont necessarily let them win.. however as a seasoned gamer i can guage there skill and adjust for it. These are the games where i can take pleasure in teaching someone who will give me a good game in the future.

Ive seen more unruley adults than i have children btw. Age is irrelevent when adressing maturity.

99MDeery wrote:

Frosty Hardtop wrote: I'm 24.



However, who I hate are OLDER GAMERS. I swear I'm going to throttle the next person who goes on an hour long diatribe about how AD&D was so much better. Shut up, and roll your Dragonkin Warlock, we're up to 4th Edition now. Older gamers are the biggest whiners, they know everything, and every ten minutes you have to correct them on a rule ("Oh, well, that's how we did it in 4th Edition." "SHUT UP THIS IS FIFTH EDITION READ YOUR RULEBOOK"). And they have a hundred thousand stories you have to endure to get through an interaction with them.

Dude I'm 21 I've been through 4 editions of 40k, I sometimes get some rules mixed up as I will remember them from old editions etc etc, some of the time its not being a jerk you just remember the rules as they used to be, I don't mind being corrected if I get a rule wrong or remember an older one, the rulebooks have alot of rules in them, sometimes you just can't help it..jeez man get over yourself.

And thats why the joke wasnt directed at you :p He was making fun of older gamers (which you arent).. Im 27 and it is indeed annoying to listen to them go on and on about how the rules used to be, etc, etc.. Some people just live in the past and dont like to change their thinking

I suggest understanding the humor before going off on the poster heh

gretar wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

gretar wrote:Will there ever be enough of these threads ? Im a teen , and i have been colecting these since i whas 8 ! I dont concider myself annoying , neither do the adults at my club ... infact there are some adults there who act like babys all the time ! I guess there are many that arent like some guys and me that can annoy you and others , but think before you post some thing along the lines of :

"Should i rewrite this ? Should i post this ? Does this make me look stupid ? Can this offend many people without a reason ? etc..."

Yes , no , yes , yes are the answers to this stupid , ignorant thread...

Gretar

Are you a Tau player?

No , im a SM , Ork and LoTR PAINTER I barely play Why ask ?

I thought you might be playing for "The Gretar Good".

Gwar! wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:Using the gwar! approach is only recommended if you desire no new members of the hobby or if you feel the need to compensate for something.

lalabox wrote:Yes, Gwar! is completely and utterly wrong.

Wow, I didn't know being sensitive was Vouge this Season, must try that next time I am at the bar.

Steelmage, just FYI, out of the 11 Young Kids who have come to my local club to start playing, only a single one has not come back and he was a dick anyway. Every other one of them has come back, asked me to help them improve, and now are pretty solid gamers. They range in age from 10 to 15.

Well, it was a joke because... your sig... and you seem to delight in being told you are correct... and emoticons are kinda annoying...


Also, I'm sixteen, and apart from delighting in the theoretical side of wargaming ('Hey, you know that my punisher can shoot 20 shots a turn.' 'Pft.. If I charge your steam tank with my tyrant, I hit automatically with 5 attacks at strength 9, each doing d3 wounds.' [okay, not really.]) I am a valued member of my gw store (actually, yes).

It all depends on the people.

lalabox wrote:
It all depends on the people.

If we can simply walk away with this one pearl of wisdom...this whole forum...would be worth it.

Let me just say this.

Young players are like sheeps.

You are the border collie. How they behave could depend 100% on you if you wanted to.

Woof! Woof!

@All on my previous post....


Only a lunatic would take themselves so seriously with such an out-rageous statement.

Teh Interwebs loses alot on inflection on Sarcasm/self jibes.

LunaHound wrote:
Let me just say this.

Young players are like sheeps.

You are the border collie. How they behave could depend 100% on you if you wanted to.

So we can bite them on the hinds to get them to go where we want while an old man whistles at the events taking place?

Duce wrote:So we can bite them on the hinds to get them to go where we want while an old man whistles at the events taking place?

This sounds strangely appealing.

...

Woof?

Maybe because I'm a Space Wolf player?

Arooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

I think this is a pretty interesting thread.

I will read through it and say a bit about how I feel when I get a scope of the actual conversation going on here. There are a few kids that play at my FLGS and they seem like good folks. As long as you take some time to paint every month, study your codex every so often, and play friendly, your cool folks. Rolling badly is a pretty good way to hype anyone up, so I can't say that most situations don't merit some kind of whimper or something along those lines. If I rolled in a casino like I roll on the board sometimes, I would be one broke #%@ dude.

Although I could care less when playing games about a paintjob, I need to understand what your army is. Most adults armies I have seen are so far behind on painting points it is ridiculous. The armies just get abandoned and played with occasionally. With a lot of kids they just can't not focus on something so satisfying as personalizing your very own space-age army to command and do with as you see fit... Hmmm I need some Battlefleet Gothic.

I think I can babble a tiny bit here w/o causing too much fuss... mounts

Kids will be kids, and although this phrase may be a tad worn out in our current world, they are still children and deserve a dash of patience. If you can't handle the utter madness a group of screaming kids can inflict upon your state of mind, you need to bring ear-plugs. I am totally serious about this; using ear-plugs while gaming isn't disrespectful at all, some consider war-gaming their personal meditation time. If I want to be in my own little world, you simply cannot stop me, this is how kids work; I try to maintain a degree freedom and downright foolishness coupled with maturity and responsibility. If Trekkie Macgoo wants to wear a silly suit and be a space-man, why the hell shouldn't they be able to. If a costume (in this case a state of mind really) just juggles their balls that well, and they don't go klingon and cause some sort of nerd-tastrophe all is well in the land of funny hats and silly names.

I love fantasy, and to deny a child access to a fantastic game like WH40k (despite it's... problems) would just be wrong. You are not these kids parents, so there is absolutely no need for you to do anything besides scare the less friendly company away from them. Just say BOO!, it usually disperses any cloud of SUPER NERD WITH THE ANSWERS YOU NEEDZ!!!

...steps down from

Emperors Faithful wrote:Arooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

thats his other, dog imitation.

being only 17 i kind of fall in the between of this topic...
granted i am not part of the group at my store that couldnt sneak up on my deaf uncle to save their lives because they talk//yell so loud, or throw dice at models when they take wounds, so i guess im on the better end of this...

but ive also seen a few in their 20's acting the same way while playing...



warhammer should be as alcohol and using the interenet should be in my opinion; everyone interested should be interviewed observed and questioned, and only the mature and willing to learn should be allowed full passage...
age, eh, not so relevant...
among those mentioned at my store theres also a 9 year old who patiently paints his crimson fists and ive never seen him get pouty or argumentative during a game...

krusty wrote:being only 17 i kind of fall in the between of this topic...
granted i am not part of the group at my store that couldnt sneak up on my deaf uncle to save their lives because they talk//yell so loud, or throw dice at models when they take wounds, so i guess im on the better end of this...

but ive also seen a few in their 20's acting the same way while playing...



warhammer should be as alcohol and using the interenet should be in my opinion; everyone interested should be interviewed observed and questioned, and only the mature and willing to learn should be allowed full passage...
age, eh, not so relevant...
among those mentioned at my store theres also a 9 year old who patiently paints his crimson fists and ive never seen him get pouty or argumentative during a game...

I love you Big Brother!

"Note"
Pokes hole in own joke

What about that person who thought 40k was a brainwashing tactic for the kids by the government to teach them to kill and murder without question?

Emperors Faithful wrote:What about that person who thought 40k was a brainwashing tactic for the kids by the government to teach them to kill and murder without question?

You mean it isn't???? Man I've been gipped!

...
...
...

Really, I can't think of any other response...

Frosty Hardtop wrote: I'm 24.

Children can be a nuisance, especially when you're not playing against them. It's been my experience that they don't know the rules, and they talk way too much. Ignoring the Ultramarines love and all that. I had to endure three hours of a kid talking about Black Templar at me while we were trying to play a few games at our store the other day. However, I find that dealing with kids gives you a chance to teach by example. Keep on doing your thing, don't get pissed off about the rules, don't get angry when you measure your blast marker and count six of their guys, and they count five, don't get angry when you count five of your guys under the marker, and they count six. These kids are going to grow up into adults, so you can show them how adults interact.

However, who I hate are OLDER GAMERS. I swear I'm going to throttle the next person who goes on an hour long diatribe about how AD&D was so much better. Shut up, and roll your Dragonkin Warlock, we're up to 4th Edition now. Older gamers are the biggest whiners, they know everything, and every ten minutes you have to correct them on a rule ("Oh, well, that's how we did it in 4th Edition." "SHUT UP THIS IS FIFTH EDITION READ YOUR RULEBOOK"). And they have a hundred thousand stories you have to endure to get through an interaction with them.

I can agree with what you are saying about younger kids. That's how I try to be.

Curious though...what constitutes an "older gamer" which you hate? Maybe what you feel is whining is just nostalgia? Since you have only dealt with some of the more recent editions of things you lack the understanding and experience to offer a valid comparison. Maybe AD&D WAS better. You will not know, because you have never played it, have you? Also everyone makes mistakes. If you can't tolerate correcting a rule for someone this will be a difficult hobby for you (I see you have only been playing a couple of months now). The point here is you need to try and see things from the other side of the coin. I for one get things stuck in my head since I've played 40K since 2nd edition and Fantasy since 3rd. Hull down is an example. It no longer exists the way it once did, and at times I forget. Does that make me "annoying?" The people I play with keep coming back so it couldn't be that bad. We play low key, not hyper competitive and just to have fun. You sound like you are pretty rigid and more than likely a rules lawyer. Not that there is anything wrong with that if it is the norm for your group, but certainly not my style. The key is to find people who's play style you are compatible with and go for it, but I would avoid sweeping generalizations like the ones you made because you may just miss out on gaming with some people you'd have fun with based on pre-conceived notions.

Good point, Mike.

I keep "misspeaking" Hull down, myself.
I KNOW the new rule. Still, though, I keep saying "Roll to see if I/you get Hull Down."

Now, What I *mean* is "Roll my/your cover save," but that's not what I'm actually saying. Iit drives one guy in my group nutz. He HAS to correct me every time I say it. LOL
Sometimes, I *DO* say it on purpose, now (for that reason).... but not typically.

Eric