I don't know how many of you are out there, but I have been posting this message on various tabletop gaming boards as a means of protest against GW for an egregious, and particularly offensive behavior and attitude from one of the Games Workshop managers here in Houston, at the Willowbrook Plaza Store.

Today, the GW store in question was demo'ing Planetstrike, and one of the Strategems chosen was Dawn Assault. Dawn Assault is worded roughly as - "While this strategem is in play, Night Fighting Rules are in effect. At the end of each player's turn, roll a d6. On the roll of a 4(that is exactly as it is in the book, a 4, not a 4+, but a 4), the strategem is cancelled as dawn arrives."

This manner in which the rule is written brought up a dispute whether it was really just a 4 or a 4+. During the dispute, the manager began to lose temper and started to throw insults towards me for my interpretation of the rule as it is written. He asked me if I believed GW was stupid enough to write such a rule, and when I responded yes, that they have made sillier rules in the past, he threatened me in the middle of the store and in front of the other customers saying - "Be glad I am on the clock and in the store, or I would beat the crap out of you and then strangle you for that remark."

During this whole time I had broken no actual rules of the store and had a simple disagreement with the manager. Since then, I have tried to contact the Regional Manager to file a formal complaint but my calls have yet to be returned. I believe I have been gravely wronged and hope that others here will acknowledge my protest.

This behavior is coupled with offensive behavior committed by the same manager several weeks ago. While I understand Texas is a predominantly Republican state, we do have some Democrats here, and when the manager begins to start up a conversation in which he insults the current president and calls him a foreigner and un-American, some of us would find that offensive.

Sounds like you need to find a new store. I admire your restraint, as in situations like the above I tend to return fire. For example, in the last situation, I would complain loudly of a racist atmosphere.

If you really want to hurt him, buy Gwar a plane ticket to Houston and pay him to hang out at the store for a day on full rules lawyer mode. That will result in Lovecraftian madness for the manager.

I don't live in Texas but I would have to say that you have been wronged alot. I do think that the rule was suppose to be 4+ (Althou it is a 4 for now since that is how it is written) but thats not the point... the manager is not the lawyer of the rules and he takes his job way overboard to threaten you for questioning a rule. I feel sorry for you man and I would go elsewhere to play!

Wow this manager sounds like a maniac. One comment though.

When the last president was in office, the other side could barelyt go ten minutes between calling him a monkey or an idiot. Now that it is flipped around and the right is insulting the left, are we going to start filing complaints? The president is always going to take flak from the opposition, let's just be glad it's just stupid insults (B OTH sides do it) and not daily riots like some other places in the world.

Anyway, you should still get this guy canned for the threat

apwill4765 wrote:Wow this manager sounds like a maniac. One comment though.

When the last president was in office, the other side could barelyt go ten minutes between calling him a monkey or an idiot. Now that it is flipped around and the right is insulting the left, are we going to start filing complaints? The president is always going to take flak from the opposition, let's just be glad it's just stupid insults (B OTH sides do it) and not daily riots like some other places in the world.

Anyway, you should still get this guy canned for the threat

It wasn't the fact that he was insulting the current president. It's the fact that, while on the clock, in the store, he was instigating and propogating a potentially offensive conversation during store hours.

But yea, I'm still trying to get ahold of the regional manager. If I haven't gotten ahold of her my monday, I'm calling corporate.

Teroniss wrote:

apwill4765 wrote:Wow this manager sounds like a maniac. One comment though.

When the last president was in office, the other side could barelyt go ten minutes between calling him a monkey or an idiot. Now that it is flipped around and the right is insulting the left, are we going to start filing complaints? The president is always going to take flak from the opposition, let's just be glad it's just stupid insults (B OTH sides do it) and not daily riots like some other places in the world.

Anyway, you should still get this guy canned for the threat

It wasn't the fact that he was insulting the current president. It's the fact that, while on the clock, in the store, he was instigating and propogating a potentially offensive conversation during store hours.

But yea, I'm still trying to get ahold of the regional manager. If I haven't gotten ahold of her my monday, I'm calling corporate.

Yea, I have to agree that that's very unprofessional, managers are supposed to END those conversations

You should have just diced off.

Well, at least we'll know what the first question of the FAQ will be.

If you want to make it serious any kind of physical threat in any kind of business environment like that can warrant a better business bureau complaint or even a police complaint. In houston I can imagine a police complaint for a physical threat might not be taken very seriously ( I say this as someone with a majority of my family in Houston )

Threatening to Strangle someone is not something to be taken lightly, and I would get the complaint on the books. I doubt he is dangerous, people who make those kind of threats are rarely the kind to actually do anything, and frankly a GW store manager is not likely to be a particularly tough individual but that degree of unprofessional behavior should not be taken lightly.

I would contact GW US corporate imediately.

Or you could have gone back to the store after business hours and tell us what happens . . . .

Threatening to beat some up is a crime in Houston. It's called assault.

No threatning is not assualt but is still a crime

assault

A crime that occurs when one person tries to physically harm another in a way that makes the person under attack feel immediately threatened. Actual physical contact is not necessary; threatening gestures that would alarm any reasonable person can constitute an assault. Compare battery.

Hence Assault and battery crimes

However I find it pretty silly both ways.. The manager should be more professional but arguing just to argue is just as annoying. Pretty much every rule is either "on a 1", "on a 6" or "on x+".. Come on its pretty obvious thats a typo

I agree that was completely unprofessinal and should be reported to corporate.

I was a part of that demo, fighting along side of your Christmas Themed Marines Teroniss (Not mentioning your real name because that would be internet foul). If I may bring an outside view of the situation as I have nothing against you or against the management at Willowbrook.

A lot of friction is found when players who might place winning above fun meet rules that might not have been completely fleshed out. The rule did say on a four, that is true, but the other three player on your side were happy to call it a four plus due to the low cost of the strategem. There were two and three point strategems that did not afford the same amount of utility.

It spiraled down to argument when despite the rest of your team you insisted on arguing a point that even bystanders to the game thought was ridiculous. To be fair voices were raised on both sides of that argument. At the culmination He did say "I need a five minute break so I don't strangle him."

The reason for the game's existence is to have fun. Winning at all costs (especially in a demo) to the point that yelling in a public place in front of children over a table top game is pretty silly. It made the experience awkward, and bailing on the rest of your team rather than seeing it through was pretty uncool.

As to the politics in store I have to call shenanigans. Not once, not twice, but on three seperate occassions I can recall the manager asking players to not talk politics in store.

In the end I believe you were both wrong, but in varying degrees. Neither of you should have been moved to raise your voices over a game. The comment about strangulation was probably over the line, but I gotta say to the readers in this thread that ya'd have to be there.

You have a unique army that you've spent alot of time converting and painting. It's theme points to a desire to put aside the seriousness of the dark lore of the game. With that being said you really shouldn't let, what seemed to most of the people there, a typo get in the way of having fun.

Every story has two sides. o.O

Dude, it's Texas. Wait until after the store closes and kick his ass in the parking lot.

Having been on both sides of this sort of thing, the manager should have called for a roll off or let you have your way. When someone is trying to (clearly) exploit a typo to win, it is a clear red flag that "sweet reason" will be sour for that person. However, even joking about violence, or a veiled thread, is uncool.

Tyras wrote:
The reason for the game's existence is to have fun. Winning at all costs (especially in a demo) to the point that yelling in a public place in front of children over a table top game is pretty silly. It made the experience awkward, and bailing on the rest of your team rather than seeing it through was pretty uncool.

As to the politics in store I have to call shenanigans. Not once, not twice, but on three seperate occassions I can recall the manager asking players to not talk politics in store.

After all was said and done, after HE yelled at me, after HE threatened me, he asked me to leave. Its not as though I left out of the blue. I was told to leave. As for the politics, he might ask people not to speak about it in the store, but it sure didn't keep him from talking about them himself that evening in question.

The MANAGER of the store. He is responsible for what happens in that store and if he allows an argument to be raised and people to start yelling it's his fault. No if and or buts it's his job to mediate what happens in his store when he is there especially! If he allowed another person to get into a shouting match with him and he kept on it, then it's his blame. It's his store he could have kicked the OP out before it escalated and been done with it, and I understand that to look on the other side of the OP's argument the guy could have been so frustrated that he said that he would strangle him (this is a common threat when someone is annoying the hell out of you, it's a blunt way to say shut the f*&k up or i'll make you in other words), and truthfully I sincerely doubt he meant it. The problem here is that the owner allowed a yelling match to happen in his store and didn't diffuse the situation. If he had just said "hey guys is a game of toy soldiers let's not make it awkward for the customers and let's just have a roll off and the winner chooses what happens!" or maybe "here lets take this into the back and we can discuss" he would have been in the right and shouldn't have any blame, but instead he allowed the shouting match to happen in front of customers and maybe noobies to the game, and trust me if I saw two adult men in a yell-off playing the game and I didn't know anything about this game prior, it would be a MASSIVE turnoff.

I don't think either person was in the right but the store manager not diffusing the situation and escalating it made it his problem and that was not a good decision on his part. Sure, the OP may have been exasterbating an argument about something that might be a misprint, but allowing something to escalate like that was not a profession move, and one that could endanger your job even if the other guy was being a dick and was also in the wrong.

The actual wording of his asking you to leave the store was "After I kill all of your stuff you can leave the store." A couple things go with that. The first being that you were a quarter of the demo's attacking force so even though the situation had gone to the point of you being asked to leave, he didn't want to further diminish the demo be yanking one of the four on the spot. Second is that even though you were asked to leave, you didn't. You stood brooding at the back of the store for hours after the incident. Why couldn't you have toughed it out for the last hour of the demo if you were'nt planning on leaving anyways? That and if the management was so inclined to offend you then why didn't they call plaza security and have you further embarresed by having you escorted from the property when you didn't leave?

Was the manager in the wrong? Like I said in my original post, yes. As EzeKK stated, he's ultimately responsible for everything that happens in that store. Even so, ya can't go around posting like this and fail to mention how antagonistic you were in debating the issue. He showed more restraint than alot of people would.

There should have been a roll off, and a store rule put in place until the official word comes out on the rule to avoid further problems. Instead there were two adults arguing. Given that the manager was playing a demo in an official capacity his word is law and it should have ended there to allow the game to progress so we could all get a look at how it played out. To that same statement, seeing that the manager was there in an official capacity he should not have been drawn into a shouting match.

Again, the politics bit. I can't speak to the night you are mentioning, because I've never been in store when a political discussion wasn't squashed on the spot. If your intention is to file a complaint about the discussion it ends up being your word versus his, and with a history of squelching political discussions at his back he comes out on top of that argument.

I think you need to take a step back, re-evaluate how that day went and think hard about what you intend to do. I don't believe you were treated as poorly as you make it out to be. What end do you hope to achieve? I seriously doubt a disciplanary action will be taken outside of a "Handle it better next time". The store has already been in contact with the district manager (I was present on the smoke break that the call took place on), there are just too many people to speak for the store, and that's outside of the sheer sillyness of the original point of contention. You could end up on the short end of the stick on this. It's a pretty small community, as evident by my posting on the same board coupled with the fact that everybody who visitis every store here in the Houston area seems to know everybody else. Dragging this thing out and exaggerating the situation rather than taking the high road and moving on will only end up ostrasizing yourself while everybody else continues on as if nothing happened. Both of you were in the wrong. If you were to go into the store with that in mind rather than believing you were in the clear while he was just being a tool I'm sure this issue could be resolved and you'd probably get an apology.

Wait.. you were trying to argue against your own team, the other team AND the person running the game (and trying to sell the product being played) about something like that? I mean, do you honestly believe in the spirit of a nice game and general precedent has shown us that GW would use "4" as the singular number to cancel the effect. "1" maybe, "6" maybe, but a 4? C'mon....
I can understand if you're on the top table in the last round of a tourney with serious prize support, but in a DEMO game? I'm not gonna lie, I'd much rather be concerned with questions about the product, how it plays, etc, rather than trying to take advantage of the obviously illiterate GW proof testers and beat down the rest of the children playing. Yea yea the manager got upset and acted unprofessional, but I can understand his frustration about what you were doing. He's already babysitting a bunch of children, and trying to push his product when you decide to make a rules lawyer move that breaks the most important rule in the game: FUN! He may have offended you, but I know that when I spend my time playing, I'm sacrificing other things I could be doing. When someone pulls a move like that, ruins the game (how awkward is it after that outburst), and makes it harder to complete the point of the demo (how the damned thing works)... I get offended. Don't be offensive to the other players, because you don't want them to feel how you feel now, do you? Do you?



Just as an aside, I think its interesting to see how often our last president was called a monkey. Now imagine the same term being used for the current man... could the hammer of public outrage fall faster? I just think that's interesting (and valid, as cultural memory carries much weight)

Did you just get a death threat over toy soldiers?

This is a joke surely? I would have said the same thing to you-are you under the age of 18 by chance?

Personally I think you should just stop shouting your mouth of-the fact that someone else who was there has come in and explained more then you chose to says alot really-I can think of numerous conversations said in the store i used to go in, although, generally after the door was shut.

Now, if he had actually strangled you, i'd care.
I think you started this thread to boost your ego and expected people to jub on your bandwagon and shout "it says 4-unlike any other rule in GW which are either 1, 6 or X+, but you must be right" followed by bowing at your feet.

I just remembered why i stopped playing.

Regardless of how abrasive the OP may have been, the Manager had no right to act unprofessional. Threatening to strangle you is indeed assault. Report him to his higher up. They can replace him with another minimum wage making cog in the machine. In this litigious society we live in, the store (GW for that matter) is responsible for that managers actions and can be held accountable in court for anything that he/she might do. I've never been to that particular store, but the Rice Village store has some good guys at it. You should check it out.

Toxxic, One can only hope that you're not held to that lofty standard if you were to say something to the effect of "That makes me so mad I could just strangle you." There is a differnce between a turn of phrase and a threat. At no point was the OP under serious threat. The manager did not get in his face or physically intimidate the OP. Could it have been handled better? Yes, there is no doubt there, but to read all of these prison lawyer posts about assault and what-not is too much. I have been overly gracious in my wording about how the situation occured in an attempt to be diplomatic. Let me assure you that if this situation were to be elevated to a point where people present in the store for the incident are asked to give any sort of statement, the manager would be cleared with possibly a verbal "do better next time" and a "I can't believe you didn't drop kick him outta the store" later over a beer. This thread along with his other efforts for some kind of vindication has done more to hurt the OP than anything else, and if you believe that it will cause the dismissal of a senior Hobby Manager then you are delusional.

I think posters really need to give a little credence to the "You'd have to be there" rule before voicing an opinion. Between the incident itself, the phone calls after, the forum posts and the general emo quality of the whole thing, this farce has gotten much bigger than it ever should have. I gave the other side of the story that the OP did not have the testicular fortitude to include. Hopefully people will see the situation for what it is and move on.

I agree, I was not there. I only go by what was posted.

And I DO know that GW can be held legally responsible for the actions of its employees.I've sat through enough "You and the Law" seminars in my 8 years of management to know that. If I were to voice something along the lines of "Be glad I am on the clock and in the store, or I would beat the crap out of you and then strangle you for that remark."(what the OP stated was said). I could damn well be assured that at the least I would find myself in HR the next day because said employee would have called the corporate help line. I'm also fairly confident that I would lose my job if it came to light that I did indeed make that statement. Violence in the workplace is a serious issue. And is still considered so even if one of the people is not employed.

If you or the OP want to keep this quiet, you should not have posted this on a forum that is read by people world wide.

Having been in a situation while working at a GW store in which litigation was wrongfully threatened, let me speak to this.

As soon as I read the first post I suspected something was fishy. The whole story was not being told. Now that I have heard from a third party who was witness to the event, it is much more clear. It seems ultimately what happened is the OP whined and complained like a child when things didn't go his own (ridiculous) way. It's a misprint, it's an OBVIOUS misprint. Everyone there agreed that it was except the OP. He just HAD to be right.

Sure the manager got upset, sure he may have raised his voice. What he should have done was tell the OP to leave and then be sure he did. Even if Security needed to escort him out.

I got news for you, Regional Managers generally have their employees backs especially against frivolous and spurious claims of abuse of customers.

Next time, behave like an adult and these situations are much less likely to happen. Oh, and by the way...IT'S JUST A GAME!

Coming to whine about it on the internet, under the charade of a "warning" doesn't help your credibility much. It basically makes you look like a baby.

I secretly want to call this store and ask for the story... but now my secret is out!

Mad Rabbit wrote:Sounds like you need to find a new store. I admire your restraint, as in situations like the above I tend to return fire. For example, in the last situation, I would complain loudly of a racist atmosphere.

I'd like to go OT for a second and respond to this. Why does criticizing the current president instantly mark a person as a racist? I'll bet you'll find that 99% of the people who don't like Obama, ALSO didn't like Clinton (myself among them). Instantly "playing the race card" as soon as somebody voices their dissent with the current establishment is pure prejudice and hypocrisy.

Lordhat wrote:

Mad Rabbit wrote:Sounds like you need to find a new store. I admire your restraint, as in situations like the above I tend to return fire. For example, in the last situation, I would complain loudly of a racist atmosphere.

I'd like to go OT for a second and respond to this. Why does criticizing the current president instantly mark a person as a racist? I'll bet you'll find that 99% of the people who don't like Obama, ALSO didn't like Clinton (myself among them). Instantly "playing the race card" as soon as somebody voices their dissent with the current establishment is pure prejudice and hypocrisy.

I missed that the first time around. I had no idea that Janeane Garofalo was into WH40K!

Cut out the:

1. Personal Attacks

2. Politics

3. Anything that is off-topic to this thread.

It was going along pretty well there. I deleted a few inappropriate posts.

Well I was in the process of a quote to use in starting another topic when Iorek jumped in with the mod stick. will post the link when I'm done.

Here's the Link: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/245168.page

I look at it this way, he is the Manager, there is NO reason at all for him to have acted like that. The guy is a manager for a reason, and apparently he didn't deserve the title. I think he should be fired, or have his punk ass kicked cause he's being paid to be an donkey-cave to customers over rule interpretation. I agree, it's a game...don't fight over it.

Sounds like the manager was out of line. It may be easy to lose your temper in such a situation, but as the store's manager he should have kept his cool, for the sake of his employer if nothing else.

However, it sounds like the OP was at least as out of line. Getting into an argument over an obvious typo, while his own team members disagreed with him, during a demo game? Giving a biased presentation of the events under the guise of a "warning"? Not leaving the store when asked to? (Which, I might add, could have the OP in trouble for 'trespassing' just as readily as the manager could be in trouble for 'assault'.)

Wow, that is really unlike them, I've gone in a good number of time and they have never been less then reasonable. (even let my friend bring his flames of war in one time)

why in the hell did he drag politics in it? That was very...tacky of him to treat you that way. I'm from new york and now live in san antonio where there are no GW stores at all. It seems like some GW store managers have a superiority complex because they know a lot of people don't have a place to play on a daily basis. I say go through legal channels to solve this problem. What GW store in Houston is this so if I ever go there I'll by pass that store.

Does anybody read the rest of the posts in the thread?

No, many people just read the OP and the skip to hit reply. It's often comical and usually obvious for the few of us who don't.

Considering that this whole thread can be used against the original poster for libel then I think it should just be closed.

There is a new GW on 290 past Hwy 6 (going out of town). Its new (as in opened last 30 days) and potentially the closest. Plus its within 2 miles of absolutely excellent Tex Mex (Alicias), and barbeque (Sweetwater heading out, Goodies right at 6). To complete the unholy Texas Trinity of Guns, Booze, and Tex Mex, Gander Mountain/Academy have the guns (no one has the bulltes thoguh thanks Obama), and Specs has the booze at discount. Just saying...

There are a pltehora of other stores in the Houston area-both GW and FLGS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Modquisition on: after reading further, moving to OT where this type of thread is now more appropriate.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Toxxic wrote:Regardless of how abrasive the OP may have been, the Manager had no right to act unprofessional. Threatening to strangle you is indeed assault. Report him to his higher up. They can replace him with another minimum wage making cog in the machine. In this litigious society we live in, the store (GW for that matter) is responsible for that managers actions and can be held accountable in court for anything that he/she might do. I've never been to that particular store, but the Rice Village store has some good guys at it. You should check it out.

Edit thats not assault under Texas criminal code and practice. It has to be the immediate threat of harmful or offensive touching, combined with a realistic ability to do so.

Nerd Rage!

Sorry, I refuse to jump in on either side until the Manager states his story. I've made that mistake in the past.

It sounds like the Manager probably over-reacted. It also sounds like the OP was probably pushing a ridiculous point. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP and the Manager have a history of similar events.

Just remember, life needs more cowbell, not less.

I just think the whole thread is ridiculous I wasn't allowed to make a personal attack against this guy but he is allowed to register make personal attacks against specific entities and actually do something that is actually illegal in the form of libel.

Where are all these crazed people coming from? I've played 40K and Fantasy on and off at three different stores, and the only time anybody ever raised their voice was when they were trying to talk and laugh at a really funny joke at the same time. Maybe living in Kansas City doesn't suck so bad after all.

Hollismason wrote:I just think the whole thread is ridiculous I wasn't allowed to make a personal attack against this guy but he is allowed to register make personal attacks against specific entities and actually do something that is actually illegal in the form of libel.

Unless you're licensed to practice law in the state of Texas, your statements that this is libel is...problematic (as in wrong). The thread is open-at least for the moment-so that more than one side may be presented. If you have a view, present it in a polite fashion. Your shouting libel just makes you sound er like you need to do more research.

Avrik_Shasla wrote:I look at it this way, he is the Manager, there is NO reason at all for him to have acted like that. The guy is a manager for a reason, and apparently he didn't deserve the title. I think he should be fired, or have his punk ass kicked cause he's being paid to be an donkey-cave to customers over rule interpretation. I agree, it's a game...don't fight over it.

I wish I was as perfect as some of the posters on this forum. Shopping isn't a right, just because you buy things doesn't mean you can behave like an arse, and then whine when someone has enough and snaps back. In the real world people do their best to be polite as life works better that way, but strangely enough sometimes our buttons get pushed and we bite back. Get over it you're a big boy.

To be honest I'm suprised that there aren't more GW staff snapping. Over the years of visiting my local GW store I've lost count of opinions that I've overheard them having to put up with from customers. What makes it worse is that large chunk of gamers who use the stores are anaroks who get the bit between the teeth and just drone on and on. Always looking to see if they can get one up on the staff when it comes to knowledge (or lack of usually). The poor bugger then has to put up with it if they visit any other gaming club.

Oh, and since when would GW use a "roll a 4" option? Never, so common sense would of told you that.

Dashofpepper wrote:Every story has two sides. o.O

Agreed. I'm pretty dubious over the whole thing. I'd just get over the whole damn thing. Find another store, move on. Sounds a little lame to get on a message board like you are petitioning to have cookies removed from schools or something.

edit: BTW, I'm heartless. Nice to meet you.

edit #2: OP is being ridiculous. The strangulation threat was clearly exaggerated frustration with your ridiculous argument. I mean come on, do you have sand in your vagina?

I feel for this guy. I mean, when theres a shop you like but one of the staff members is a dick, theres not much you can do about it. Besides going online and hoping someone will feel for your case and start a netwide campaign for this guy to get the sack or something...oh wait, he did that. Good luck.

whatwhat wrote:I feel for this guy. I mean, when theres a shop you like but one of the staff members is a dick, theres not much you can do about it. Besides going online and hoping someone will feel for your case and start a netwide campaign for this guy to get the sack or something...oh wait, he did that. Good luck.

Judging by what a third party member was saying of the situation, looks like the manager wasn't intentionally trying to be a bellend, but lost his cool after getting frustrated with the OP. I'm not going to make any comments about the manager entering into political discussions, since that seems to be a separate issue from the situation presented.

That being said, seems like the OP was also a bit out of line to vigorously argue about what was likely a rules typo (admittedly, the whole, "do you think GW is stupid enough to make a mistake like this?" bit made me chuckle a bit) during a Demo game.

Definitely seems like one of those situations where you had to be there to make proper judgment.

There are always things that are said in confrontations that are misconstrued and outright twisted in how the participants remember them, but I know this particular manager is one of the more level headed people who frequent this store.
Throwing a tantrum online so other people you don't know, that don't know the situation can make you feel better with pats on the back when you were a dick and didn't like the outcome just screams "I have no real friends."
So I would take the OP with a grain of salt,.. and perhaps a shot of lime soaked tequila.

Is there an internet rule that the person who starts a thread to complain about a petty incident in the real world* will almost always turn out to be blame? Because there really should be.






*Well, a GW store which isn't exactly the real world, but is closer to it than the internet is.

I want restate in case missed:
There is a new GW on 290 past Hwy 6 (going out of town). Its new (as in opened last 30 days) and potentially the closest. Plus its within 2 miles of absolutely excellent Tex Mex (Alicias), and barbeque (Sweetwater heading out, Goodies right at 6). To complete the unholy Texas Trinity of Guns, Booze, and Tex Mex, Gander Mountain/Academy have the guns (no one has the bulltes thoguh thanks Obama), and Specs has the booze at discount. Just saying...

There are a plethora of other stores in the Houston area-both GW and FLGS.

I really think this topic is amazing. Tyras as the third party coming in and enlightening us as to what really happened is just awesome.

I could tell after the first post something was wrong. The fact that an adult can argue over something as stupid as a 4+ rule that clearly is a typo really speaks volumes about the OP's personality.

I took a read through the thread, and it doesn't seem all that serious. If the guy scares you (and it sounds like he does) carry a legal self defense weapon and crack him in the face if he actually attacks you. This type of thing I do not personally take lightly, but the law rarely sides with the customers and I could not tell you why in the slightest.

As an employee (manager or not) you get payed... As a customer I pay the money that keeps your job intact. This does not mean I have the right to berate and abuse employees, it simply means they ARE there to provide me with reasonable customer service and a sound frame of mind. I don't want some manager having a vendetta against me, causing him to ban me from the store over a stupid rule. If the manager cheats, well that sucks and you should contact corporate (in a summarized fashion, do not draw it out into a bigger #@$% competition) and find another store to play out in the mean time.

If you can't find another store GW just lost a customer and you can find a new and adventurous hobby involving something a bit less rule-bound. The people that make the rules usually break them quite often.

Just my two cents, I have absolutely no desire to be dragged into a lengthy debate over the state of affairs on mars. (That actually WAS NOT a texas joke, just a way to describe how these sort of threads make me feel.).

Having been through a threatening situation with a scam artist Wizkids Envoy(yeah they were a dime a dozen), I feel for this guy. I'm a manager for a major retailer myself and I hope you get in contact with this guys supervisor and get your situation resolved.

Making threats about beating this guy in the parking lot after close, are not funny AT ALL. A situation like this should be taken seriously and there are absolutely no reasons why an employee of a business should act in this manner, EVER.

NecronLord3 wrote:Having been through a threatening situation with a scam artist Wizkids Envoy(yeah they were a dime a dozen), I feel for this guy. I'm a manager for a major retailer myself and I hope you get in contact with this guys supervisor and get your situation resolved.

Making threats about beating this guy in the parking lot after close, are not funny AT ALL. A situation like this should be taken seriously and there are absolutely no reasons why an employee of a business should act in this manner, EVER.

However, there is a world of difference between threatening someone and what the 3rd party said was stated:

At the culmination He did say "I need a five minute break so I don't strangle him."

Thats exasperation, not a threat. Its important. I have no dog in this hunt, and have proffered other locations, but frankly the 3rd party statement sounds the most realistic.

A question to the OT: Did you make the argument that "4" was not 4+ and argued for some time to that effect, in a demo game?

I would have taken "4" to mean "4+" but if someone cried about it like this I'd say "whatever, just roll the damn dice". There's a lot of important things in the world worth arguing about, 2" tall plastic people worth it.

I truely wish people would read the entirety of the thread before posting. The guy was never threatened!

When the first roll came up to determine if the night fighting rules were still in effect a five was rolled. A collective sigh was heard from our side, as we were looking down the barrels of three battle cannons, a demolisher cannon and at least three lascannons in addition to all the infantry weapons. At this point the OP picked up the book, flipped furiously through the pages and declared that unless a four was rolled the rules stayed in effect.

The manager and the other three players all gathered around the book and sure enough the rule was written "on a roll of 4". All of us, with the exception of the OP, had a chuckle and immediately came to the conclusion that is was a typo. It was a one point stratagem, there are two and three point stratagems that aren't as powerful if it were to be run on a 4 only basis, and there is no precedent of GW using a roll of 4 only as a determining number. It didn't take thirty seconds for the majority of us to come to an agreement that it was meant to be 4+ and that night fighting rules were now over. The OP refused to give up his argument though. "No! it's written that only on a roll of 4 does night fighting go away." While the rest of his team was wanting to move on in the game and see how the expansion works the OP wanted to drag out an insane argument.

I was there the whole time. I heard everything that was said. Even with his team mates saying , "it's ok man, let's just play" and "dude it's no big deal" he insisted on driving on with his argument. The whole discussion, if you can call it that, was frustrating. About three quarters of the way through the argument the statement "Do you think that GW would be so stupid to include a rule like this" was made by the manager. That was the real turning point because it moved from the question of the rule itself into an argument about the company as a whole. When the OP answered back that GW has made stupid decisions in the past and would continue to make stupid decisions the temperment started going down hill rapidly.

The manager said that if the OP were to call GW stupid again in his presence that he would be banned from the store. At this point neither party was really interested in hearing the other and when both were talking over each other the manager dropped the book (note: did not slam) on the table and said to the guy next to him, not the OP mind you, "I need a five minute break so I don't strangle him". He went out the back door of the store and a couple of the store's regulars follwed him. The rest of the store was quiet for a minute, but resumed their chatter shortly after the manager left.

A couple minutes later he came back and said that even though he believed that the rule was on a 4+, he would play the demo as written, then he looked at the OP he said "After I kill all your stuff you can leave the store." Seeing that the OP, and my dread were the only things on the table at that time due to some horrendous deepstrike and reserve rolls it was almost a moot point to announce his targeting of the OP's forces lol. There was no more yelling and both parties were terse in their responses to wound and save rolls. The OP lost a couple of termies, but still had half a squad of them left along with his special character and a speeder on the table. Before our next shooting phase he had packed up his army and stood near the back door of the shop, pacing and brooding.

After the IG managed to kill our last hope at pulling out a draw we ended the game about an hour after the argument had taken place. We all went out the front door for smokes, post battle assesments and to talk about the over all feel of the Planet Strike expansion. A couple minutes after we stepped out the other store employee poked his head out the door and said "You and I need to talk" to the manager. The manager said "Is it about <Name not mentioned>?" to which was answered "He wants to call the regional manager". The Manager chuckled and said "He's free to call her. I hope he calls her."

There was no further discussion between them that day. The OP hung out at the back of the store for a couple of hours then left. The manager went back into demo mode and ran two more games of Planet Strike. If any further communication has happened since, I don't know. It's not been talked about in the store while I was there since Saturday other than letting the manager know about this thread, which produced more laughs over the whole thing.

There was never a threat, there was no physical intimidation, there has NEVER been a racist discussion while I've been in the store, and every time politics comes up in conversation the manager's radar seems to go off and he appears in a puff of smoke to ask us not to talk politics in store. The OP not only argued a point that everybody else, bystanders to the battle included, thought was crazy, but he argued it with a passion that I still can't understand. He was agressive, unrelenting and antagonistic. The manager, while admittedly raising his voice in the argument and using the strangulation phrase in his frustration, showed more restraint than alot of people would have. Personally once the OP started yelling I would have stopped talking, and had plaza security remove him from the store, but that's just me. Prior to the OP's post here and even up to his second post here I really had no problem with him. He seemed to me to try a little hard to get people to recognize him, but other than that he was just another guy in the shop to me. The fact that I had to post the other side of the story because he only posted his side, skewed as it was, gave a defensive tone to my posts, but I have endeavored to present the situation as it occured. It's my belief that the Manager, for the most part, handled it well.

I didn't intend to post again in this thread but it seemed that further explination was required. I must restate my original desire that I wiss people would read the entirety of the thread before posting, the OP is very misleading.

Oh, and Frazzled... dude stop trying to draw people to the 290/hwy 6 store damn it! I need people to fight at Willowbrook for the Eye of Terror event this summer.


Edit: The Typo Cannon hits and wounds on a 1+, no saves or invulnerables.

Fair enough comments Tyras.

I'll leave the thread open (obviously other mods may close at their discretion) for any final comments.

I'm just saddened no one offered to settle this Rooster Cogburn style. Next thing you know people will be thinking Texans are...normal...
To correct that error before it grows:
Family photo: Frazzled as a baby:

I love it when men make sense. It brings a feeling of balance to the world.

Sounds like the situation is more complex than the OP lead us to believe. Either way, I'd suggest that he and the manager not see each other until they're ready to let things go. IMO there's no reason not to apologize for his half of the blame and not lose the store to hang out in, but if things are too far gone, then just find a new store. It really is as simple as that. No reason to keep seeing someone who you find abrasive.

Probably easy for me to say, given the saturation of GW stores in Chicagoland.

Frazzled wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Toxxic wrote:Regardless of how abrasive the OP may have been, the Manager had no right to act unprofessional. Threatening to strangle you is indeed assault. Report him to his higher up. They can replace him with another minimum wage making cog in the machine. In this litigious society we live in, the store (GW for that matter) is responsible for that managers actions and can be held accountable in court for anything that he/she might do. I've never been to that particular store, but the Rice Village store has some good guys at it. You should check it out.

Edit thats not assault under Texas criminal code and practice. It has to be the immediate threat of harmful or offensive touching, combined with a realistic ability to do so.

Actually Frazzled... Any judge that I work with at night court would find probably cause for "Class C Assault by Threat" The offense would be punishable by a fine only and homeboy would probably spend 24 hours at most in jail. Most of said time would be in processing because he would have enough credit as soon as he stepped before the judge to clear out the charge.

Nerds were enraged? What manner of universe is this?

Seriously, our hobby attracts crazies. The craziest tend to work for the company that supports the hobby. This is nothing particularly new, or interesting. Not that it has to be, I just feel like I need to say it. Because I'm special. Yes. That's exactly right. It's fun to type like you talk. Lots of periods.

Ive concluded that this whole thread is a trolling spamfest of internet garbage

Awesome.

+1 post.

As manager of a store though I believe people should be more considerate and arbitrate more patiently, there are alot of serious hobbyist out there and these things do costs alot so people tend to be attached more than normal.
As a customer though, we should also be observant of where and when to stand our ground, in the end it's just a game and people should enjoy more, than spending too much time arguing than enjoying and playing their hearts out.
Just my two cents guys, cause where I'm at things are resolved in simpler terms....it's quicker and relatively inexpensive. Nuff said.

How old is the OP?

Fallen668 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Toxxic wrote:Regardless of how abrasive the OP may have been, the Manager had no right to act unprofessional. Threatening to strangle you is indeed assault. Report him to his higher up. They can replace him with another minimum wage making cog in the machine. In this litigious society we live in, the store (GW for that matter) is responsible for that managers actions and can be held accountable in court for anything that he/she might do. I've never been to that particular store, but the Rice Village store has some good guys at it. You should check it out.

Edit thats not assault under Texas criminal code and practice. It has to be the immediate threat of harmful or offensive touching, combined with a realistic ability to do so.

Actually Frazzled... Any judge that I work with at night court would find probably cause for "Class C Assault by Threat" The offense would be punishable by a fine only and homeboy would probably spend 24 hours at most in jail. Most of said time would be in processing because he would have enough credit as soon as he stepped before the judge to clear out the charge.

Good luck with that with anyone who has a lawyer thats had more than 30 minutes of experience past taking the Texas Bar.

The best way to settle the whole affair would have been to say, "Okay, we'll play it your way", then immediately roll a 4 for end of darkness conditions.

I think it would be just hilarious if it turned out that the rule wasn't a typo and there was a reason for night ending on a roll of a 4 only...

...now if only I can think of a reason why...is 4AM usually when the sun starts rising?

Presumably on some world/s in the 41stM,yes.

Kilkrazy wrote:The best way to settle the whole affair would have been to say, "Okay, we'll play it your way", then immediately roll a 4 for end of darkness conditions.

Or better yet, fail to roll a 4 then pick up the die and keep rolling it again and again until it comes up a 4. I haven't read the exact wording but I doubt it says 'roll a 4 on a single die roll per turn and never ever re-roll it'.

sebster wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:The best way to settle the whole affair would have been to say, "Okay, we'll play it your way", then immediately roll a 4 for end of darkness conditions.

Or better yet, fail to roll a 4 then pick up the die and keep rolling it again and again until it comes up a 4. I haven't read the exact wording but I doubt it says 'roll a 4 on a single die roll per turn and never ever re-roll it'.

You may not re-roll any re-roll.

Thats whiny child behaviour. Almost as bad as whiny adult, and grousing at the manager, or the manager grousing back.
Visitors to the store can be expected to be morons, managers should not let them get to them, or at least not let it show. Thats what the back office is for. Also a punchbag and printer hooked up to your CCTV.

sebster wrote:Is there an internet rule that the person who starts a thread to complain about a petty incident in the real world* will almost always turn out to be blame? Because there really should be.

Man, I completely agree that there must be some sort of invisable rule in which anyone that complains about ANYTHING on the net must be jumped on fervently.

I tried to let people know about a company that basically stole 200$ from me on boardgamegeek. I sent them money, got a completely wrong order and had to return to sender the entire thing, then they ignored me for over a month till their 30 day money back guarantee was up. I had to go to paypal to get my money back! After one day of my forum posting, much like this thread, there were probably 30+ replies impuning my intelligence, my intention and my sexual preference. After 1 day the thread was deleted, but I learned my lesson.

Someone get to drafting up these new rules of the interwebz to keep folks from making informative posts! And keep on riding this guy for stating his!

On another note, I would like to say that harping on the 4+ thing is a very douche manouvre. Take that as you will. ;-D

The difference is that it sounds like this guy needs to chill out. The manager sounded pretty reasonable. The original post sounds waaaay off from the way that the third party said it happened. I'm gonna take the OP's future posts (doubt there will be any) with a grain of sand.

I disagree. I think even with the 3rd party's account that the manager behaved poorly and should be reprimanded for his actions. As a manager you have to go above and beyond some times(even in the face of ridiculousness, stupidity, or out right rudeness) when dealing with your customers. This manager looks to me like he is doing just enough to get by and keep his job.

Agreed, he should be reprimanded. I just want to make the OP sound like an ass for joining a message board only to bash his LGS. Like I give two gaks about his damn experience.

edit: reprimanded as in "don't yell in the store, it's loud enough already", not we're cutting your hours.

I disagree. Based on the 3rd party report Frazzled would recommend no reprimand.

As has been mentioned, they were both wrong. But saying that the manager should be fired or reprimanded is over the top. He made a mistake in the heat of the moment. Hopefully he learned from this. If this turned into a pattern, which it doesn't sound like it from the 3rd partys account then he should possibly be fired. it just sounds to me like the guy just got frustrated with a difficult character and lost his cool. OK we get it, these things happen in an imperfect world.

As to the OP.... two words.





Move on.





GG

Frazzled wrote:Fair enough comments Tyras.

I'll leave the thread open (obviously other mods may close at their discretion) for any final comments.

I'm just saddened no one offered to settle this Rooster Cogburn style. Next thing you know people will be thinking Texans are...normal...
To correct that error before it grows:
Family photo: Frazzled as a baby:

Your dad carried you around in a bottle of liquor? That might explain a few things.

I think the manager should be reprimanded in the same that myself (and doubtless other employees) have been when losing your cool with a difficult customer, client, or outside party.

Boss, "You know, you shouldn't have lost your temper like that."
Me, "Yeah, I know, he just really irked me because ___."
Boss, "Yeah, I know. But, as your boss, I had to say something. I probably would have done the same thing."

Now there we are in agreement.

apwill4765 wrote: When the last president was in office, the other side could barelyt go ten minutes between calling him a monkey or an idiot. Now that it is flipped around and the right is insulting the left, are we going to start filing complaints?

Does it matter? I work in a bookstore, we sell a lot of stuff that is a -lot- more politically charged than toy soldiers, we routinely help people find books who's contents we may violently disagree with, and do so -cheerfully-

P.S. my last manager got laid off after touching a customer's shoulder in an argument, after an argument over some discount, customer was an ass, but that didn't help... So the manager -still- could get canned,even if he was in the right, so to speak.

I would have just told him to leave and not come back to the store. I ran a Hobby store for a while and we had the 3 rules for the game room. 1. No Cursing 2. No Cheating 3. No arguing. Break any of these and I just asked them to leave either for the day or forever. It was a really really chillaxed enviroment.

I am glad to see people here defending the manager. I think the OP was childish to post this here in an attempt to ruin the credibility of the manager. It's just a game of toy soldiers but the OP was bound and determined to find a way to ruin the game from the get go for others playing. So often childish people come on the Internet to grind their axes against others. What the OP said in his original post speaks volumes about his character. G

Nobody_Holme wrote:You may not re-roll any re-roll.

Damn! I'm not the rules lawyer I used to be. All right, what about 'rolling' the die by rolling it around in your hand and then placing it on the number you want? Does it say

Thats whiny child behaviour. Almost as bad as whiny adult, and grousing at the manager, or the manager grousing back.
Visitors to the store can be expected to be morons, managers should not let them get to them, or at least not let it show. Thats what the back office is for. Also a punchbag and printer hooked up to your CCTV.

No, it isn't whiny child behaviour. It's using a ridiculous approach to demonstrate an important principle, that every rule has underlying assumptions based on common sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Manimal wrote:Man, I completely agree that there must be some sort of invisable rule in which anyone that complains about ANYTHING on the net must be jumped on fervently.

Why are you pretending I said 'anything'? I said 'petty', because I was talking about a guy complaining about getting in a screaming match over a game. You're talking about having $200 stolen. These are not the same kind of thing.

And yeah, I think that in most cases the person who gets so worked up over something as petty as an argument about a game that he then goes on to the net to complain about will be, nine times out of ten, the instigator of the situation.

I can't help but notice that Teroniss hasn't made a post since this. I hate when people do stupid crap like this thread. Whiny nancies.

The anonimity of the internet emboldens some people to post like the OP. If that anonimity is compromised or a light is shined on the situation revealing any deception or half truths they scatter like roaches.

In resolution, at least I hope it's the end, the manager has been compelled by his seniors to make an apology via a phone call to the OP. Whether or not the OP will show his face in the shop again, or if the apology will be enough for him remains to be seen.

I know that if he were to come into the store again he can expect a cool reception from the players there.

Sounds like a reasonable request from the seniors.

Teroniss wrote:I have been posting this message on various tabletop gaming boards as a means of protest against GW for an egregious, and particularly offensive behavior and attitude from one of the Games Workshop managers here in Houston, at the Willowbrook Plaza Store.

he threatened me in the middle of the store and in front of the other customers saying - "Be glad I am on the clock and in the store, or I would beat the crap out of you and then strangle you for that remark."

when the manager begins to start up a conversation in which he insults the current president and calls him a foreigner and un-American, some of us would find that offensive.

It's the weekend, GW Corporate is down. Based on the above, I would suggest the following:
1. Given that he threatened violence against you, you should also file a police report against him ASAP. If you know he'll be there tomorrow, try to get the police to meet you at the store for a "proper" identification of the manager in public.

2. On Monday, contact GW Corporate, in Maryland (1 hour ahead of Texas time), and let them know that you have contacted the police. Speak with their Corporate Human Resources and explain that you don't feel safe in their stores, and are going to be warning other gamers (especially children) about GW hiring dangerous and violent persons, and GW encouraging such behavior. He is a MANAGER, so he represents GW Corporate. DEMAND that GW fire the person in question if they are serious about Customer safety.

With a good report to HR backed by a police report, GW can fire the guy "for cause" so he doesn't even get unemployment.

Looks like someone else only read the opening post.

Hollismason wrote:I would have just told him to leave and not come back to the store. I ran a Hobby store for a while and we had the 3 rules for the game room. 1. No Cursing 2. No Cheating 3. No arguing. Break any of these and I just asked them to leave either for the day or forever. It was a really really chillaxed enviroment.

I like the approach of the manager of a not so local FLGS... he also has these rules, but he enforces them with a nerf gun. One of those belt fed automatic ones.

Warns you once... shoot you a few times. 99% of the times, that works. I have never seen him kick someone out.


A GW store let someone bring Flames of War in??? WOW, I think at the next adepticon I will bring my Americans and Germans up to the bunker and try and get a game in with one of my friends... maybe even try and demo it

I personally wonder who the original poster is just so I can save myself the displeasure of playing against him when even I get my quarterly game in. I get so few games played that I dont need a bad one.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Looks like someone else only read the opening post.

Nah, it's just that it's the only post in the entire thread that's interesting and amusing to reply to.

Fallen668 wrote:I personally wonder who the original poster is just so I can save myself the displeasure of playing against him when even I get my quarterly game in. I get so few games played that I dont need a bad one.

If your opponent busts out a Christmas themed Space Marine army with a captian modeled to look like Jesus, just fake irritable bowel syndrome, remember that your roof needs reshingling, tell him that you forgot to shave the pet hamster, or maybe yell "Is that a topless Sister of Battle!?" while pointing at the front door then run out the back door.
Anything that will get you out of playing that army will save you from dealing with the OP.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Nah, it's just that it's the only post in the entire thread that's interesting and amusing to reply to.

What? So you read the thread, saw that OP was completely full of it and had disappeared from the thread when he was called on his rubbish, and yet you still decided that his largely fictional post needed a detailed response about he should do if he hadn't actually been making things up.

Or, possibly... you didn't read the thread.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Did you just get a death threat over toy soldiers?

I hate to admit it, but Cheese Elemental is right.

Mad Rabbit wrote:Sounds like the situation is more complex than the OP lead us to believe.

Well, no offense to anyone in the thread at all, but does this really suprise you? I am not one to defend GW or their store managers (had my own run ins, srykthxgby), but the OP did have a bit of a "random" flair to it, dont you think?

dirkthe1 wrote:Ive concluded that this whole thread is a trolling spamfest of internet garbage

Well, welcome to Dakka. And you're right, I'm not helping.

Tyras wrote:The anonimity of the internet emboldens some people to post like the OP.

THat's one thing that kinda amazes me from time to time in this bold new world of the Interdweebs. For some place that, superficially, promises such anonymity; people can get REALLY dialed in, cant they? Just like the OP did here. Seems like the concepts of anonymity and omniscience are really duking it out instead of anon being the hands down winner.

Uriels_Flame wrote:Well, at least we'll know what the first question of the FAQ will be.

Yep.
I can see it now.

Q: Was American President Barak Obama born a foreign national, actually ineligible to hold that office?
A: No. While an internet rumor has been circulating since shortly after he announced his run for the Presidency, he is, in fact, an American born citizen of the USA.


LOL

E

If you're going to write "Barak Obama", please use his full name:

"Barak Hussein Obama"
____

No, he's not Saddam (though he is worse for America)...

And no, he's not the anti-Christ (though he is pro-Abortion)...

I had a feelin the kid would bite on that one.

To to close the thread.