Why do people assume that he molests children just because he plays with them? Cant he be child at heart? i mean you adults are still playing with toy soldiers ....
LunaHound wrote:
Why do people assume that he molests children just because he plays with them? Cant he be child at heart? i mean you adults are still playing with toy soldiers ....
I belive people assume he was guilty of molestation due to the numerous amount of times he was accused of the crime,and let's be perfectly honest,had he be Michael Jackson janitor and not Michael Jackson millionare musician he would have been put under the jail.
Before the modhammer gets brought down upon this thread gents, lets not forget that at no point was Mr Jackson actually convicted of any offenses involving children. Given that he has only just passed away I thinks it's highly inappropriate to indulge in this sort of groundless gossip.
Lets just remember him as a passionate, albeit eccentric, performer of excellent pop songs.
If you really can't wait to speak ill of him by referring to allegations that where never proven, then may I suggest you head over to 4Chan where I'm sure you'll feel right at home.
LunaHound wrote:
Why do people assume that he molests children just because he plays with them? Cant he be child at heart? i mean you adults are still playing with toy soldiers ....
I belive people assume he was guilty of molestation due to the numerous amount of times he was accused of the crime,and let's be perfectly honest,had he be Michael Jackson janitor and not Michael Jackson millionare musician he would have been put under the jail.
Oh great , someone deleted the post im responding to . Now i look like im trying to start drama ><;;;;;;;
I love MJ , no one will ever be able to dance like him.
Ironhide wrote:Man, WTF is wrong with you people? The man's dead and your still belittling him? What a bunch of self-absorbed a-holes.
Most aussies will make jokes when someone dies. It's our way. We did it for Kurt Cobain (what goes 'beep, beep, beeeeeeeee...?' - Kurt cobain, unplugged), we did it for Michael Hutchence and Diana PoW (What's the difference between MH and Diana? MH didn't forget to belt up.) oh and we even made jokes about Heath Ledger and David Carradine. The first Challenger joke - yep, told by an aussie within minutes of it going 'roman candle'.
Never really like his music. Won't comment on alleged criminal activity (unproven) - settlement out of court proves nothing.
More upset about Farrah Fawcett than MJ. She was kinda hot in her day.
Ironhide wrote:Man, WTF is wrong with you people? The man's dead and your still belittling him? What a bunch of self-absorbed a-holes.
That doesn't make any sense. Someone being dead doesn't change what they did or who they were. Calling people self-absorbed in this context makes absolutely no sense.
Hell, I cheered when I heard Reagan was dead. If that makes me a bad person, then feel free to judge away.
LunaHound wrote:
Why do people assume that he molests children just because he plays with them? Cant he be child at heart? i mean you adults are still playing with toy soldiers ....
Uhh . . . because most people who just "play with children" do not make multi-million dollar payoffs to make molestation cases "go away." Grown up that like to "play with children" also do not interrupt their "innocent sleepovers" with their little friends so that they can ask their chauffer to bring the vasoline from the car and meet them at the door half clothed and with an erection . . . but I am sure there is an "innocent explanation." Lets see they were playing conquer the bedpost. And Michael thought it would be really cool if they put vasoline on the bedpost so they could slide down. Unfortunately, in the process of sliding down the bedpool Michael got kind of aroused. Yeah . . . thats it thats the ticket! By the way, do you still believe in Santa Clause.
Tbh I think its more of a case of an immature man (he obviously had issues mentally) thought he could pay the thing to make it go away. Doesn't mean he's guilty at all.
In fact when the second child came forward the lawers said at the time, this was due to the first pay off, and they'd have not allowed him to do something so stupid. As folks usually immediatley associate guilt rightly or wrongly with such an action.
However to flip it the other way, if the first boy and his family where so adamant Jackson was guilty. Why did they so quickly accept the pay off, when they can get the money after he is convicted and probably more.
Of course no one considers that.
Regardless, my thoughts are with his children and his family, I hope they pull through this, as a father my worst nightmare is dying before my kids are adults and mature enough to have at least a chance of dealing with it.
Thing is, dying sucks. Dying sucks more than just about anything else, it really sucks for the dead and sucks almost as much for their family. Some people think that when a person has just died that regardless of what they did in life you give them a period of dignity. Even if you didn't think much of him then you can lay off for a little while for his family. Maybe their Dad was a kiddie fiddler, but he's still their Dad, they still loved him and will be grieving.
Is it that hard to lay off for a day or two, there'll be plenty of time for jokes later?
Whew, for a second there I thought we would have to put up with days more responsible media coverage of the crisis in Iran. Now back to what really matters, celebrities .
Yes, us Aussies are that way. I've been getting MJ jokes in my inbox all day. The best one was Pedo-bear crying over a headstone with "Michael Jackson" on it.
I grew up listening to MJ, on right now mtv is playing all his old music vids. Hopefuly when I die, I will be doing the thriller with him. May he rest in peace.
I love MJ , no one will ever be able to dance like him.
I concur.
I remember when I was, little I used to dance and lip synch to the Thriller album at parties. Sad to see him go even though he did get a bit too eccentric for my tastes later in life.
Ultrafool wrote:I grew up listening to MJ, on right now mtv is playing all his old music vids. Hopefuly when I die, I will be doing the thriller with him. May he rest in peace.
Dance for all eternity with Michael Jackson in heaven?
I'd rather have Satan string me upside down and tickle me with needle-sharp penises.
Ultrafool wrote:I grew up listening to MJ, on right now mtv is playing all his old music vids. Hopefuly when I die, I will be doing the thriller with him. May he rest in peace.
Dance for all eternity with Michael Jackson in heaven?
I'd rather have Satan string me upside down and tickle me with needle-sharp penises.
But will they be well endowed needle-sharp penises?
H.B.M.C. wrote:Yes, us Aussies are that way. I've been getting MJ jokes in my inbox all day. The best one was Pedo-bear crying over a headstone with "Michael Jackson" on it.
LoL I got the same one..
Id post it up... But I think the devs draw the line at Pedo Bear.
I don't understand why so many people are acting like he's absolved of his potential guilt, just because the case was never really settled.
There was a SUBSTANTIAL payout, and the fact that it even got to trial should have been a big clue-in. Even if there were ambulance chaser styled parents getting involved, does that make the initial allegations any less serious?
That kind of thing happens with ALOT of crimes, as far as I understand, and how was this any different?
It's just bugging me, since I'm bored and browsing the Warcraft suggestion forums, which are filled to the brim with threads begging for some form of tribute to him to be put ingame, and whenever it's pointed out that he was a controversial character--they just retort that it was thrown out.
So does that make OJ less guilty?
How about the Duke Lacrosse kids, does that make them guilty? I mean, given that there was evidence at the start!
You know for such a Perv, he managed to keep all of his children, for 13 years....alone. The man worked in show biz for 40 years, and was the Iconic face of america to the world in the 80s.People alover the world know two things, Coke cola, and Micheal Jackson. He was the first black musician to break into Mtv, and has made the most well known music video and songs ever. Because of his popularity he was the target or every comedian and tabloid ever for the past 20 years. It's a shame he he died mocked and shunned by the same world he ruined his face so bad to fit into.
I don't understand why so many people are acting like he's absolved of his potential guilt, just because the case was never really settled.
There was a SUBSTANTIAL payout, and the fact that it even got to trial should have been a big clue-in. Even if there were ambulance chaser styled parents getting involved, does that make the initial allegations any less serious?
That kind of thing happens with ALOT of crimes, as far as I understand, and how was this any different?
It wasn't. People shouldn't be judged for potential guilt. Though that happens all the time anyway.
Kanluwen wrote:
So does that make OJ less guilty?
Yes. In fact, it makes him not guilty. That's the way the law is.
Kanluwen wrote:
How about the Duke Lacrosse kids, does that make them guilty? I mean, given that there was evidence at the start!
/rant off.
LuciusAR wrote:Before the modhammer gets brought down upon this thread gents, lets not forget that at no point was Mr Jackson actually convicted of any offenses involving children. Given that he has only just passed away I thinks it's highly inappropriate to indulge in this sort of groundless gossip.
Lets just remember him as a passionate, albeit eccentric, performer of excellent pop songs.
If you really can't wait to speak ill of him by referring to allegations that where never proven, then may I suggest you head over to 4Chan where I'm sure you'll feel right at home.
Hear, hear. I someone is aquitted through the process of a court of law they have the right to be considered innocent.
Besides in Jacksons case motive and appearances are not necessarily the same. Unwise, yes, evil, thats not for us to say.
I guess in this case - there may just be two Michael Jacksons.
King of Pop.
And
Whacko Jacko / Mr. Jefferson
I am leaving respects up to the king of pop, whacko jacko... never heh.
Well - at least he can rest in peace. It just really sucks that someone didn't really come in there and saved him maybe 15+ years back and slapped him in the face to get his act straight.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Yes, us Aussies are that way. I've been getting MJ jokes in my inbox all day. The best one was Pedo-bear crying over a headstone with "Michael Jackson" on it.
jp400 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:Yes, us Aussies are that way. I've been getting MJ jokes in my inbox all day. The best one was Pedo-bear crying over a headstone with "Michael Jackson" on it.
LoL I got the same one..
I must have, please send a PM of how to obtain.
As for the legal argument; let's not act so naive about the realities of the legal system. We all know that being legally not guilty and actually being not guilty of something are two diffetent things. A person can be freed and guilty as sin the same as a person being innocent and being found guilty. So saying he didn't do it because a court ruled doesn't put the issue to bed, like he did with those kids.
Spoiler:
In all reality I really really don't care and don't know what happened and as far as his death goes I really really don't care again. Didn't know him, not invited to the funeral. Feel sorry for his kids, that's about it. 13 people were killed by a bomb in Baghdad today to but because they didn't sing and grab their crotch no one is going to really care besides the people who knew them.
If I agree to admit that just possibly Michael Jackson was a good performer and the world is a bit poorer for his passing, will you please please shut the #$%^ up about him and talk about news that actually, y'know matters?
I mean they just cut to their Beijing Correspondent to get Chinese reactions to the death of a singer who was popular 20 years ago.
I agree the coverage is a bit OTT, but Iran etc was so last week, get with it !
Sorry for his kids and family..especially his siblings who might have to get their own careers now..
..but.... he did write ( well perform in actuality I guess) a fair few toe tappers. So...RIP.
I was in Lacklustre video t'other week, and "Beat it" came on the stereo. About 1 minute later I look round and everyone in the que ( self included) is tapping tehir feet or nodding along, whilst a couple of bairns, couldn't have been more than 5 or 6 danced about in the corner.
I feel sorry for MJ because he did not have a healthy childhood. But, that doesn't excuse becoming a monster who preyed on young children.
And he was a perv. There were numerous allegations, payouts to silence complaints, and stories of sharing his bed with kids and kids being able to ID the birthmark on his genitals. That's not normal. It'd be one thing if he built Neverland, let Make A Wish, the Scouts, etc. use it. It's another to have unrelated kids sleeping with you unsupervised. And, ultimately, I place a lot of blame on the parents of those kids. Especially after the initial allegations.
dietrich wrote:I It'd be one thing if he built Neverland, let Make A Wish, the Scouts, etc. use it. It's another to have unrelated kids sleeping with you unsupervised. And, ultimately, I place a lot of blame on the parents of those kids. Especially after the initial allegations.
If I agree to admit that just possibly Michael Jackson was a good performer and the world is a bit poorer for his passing, will you please please shut the #$%^ up about him and talk about news that actually, y'know matters?
I mean they just cut to their Beijing Correspondent to get Chinese reactions to the death of a singer who was popular 20 years ago.
Popular 20 years ago, huh? I thought you were in China, not on the moon. In a cave. With you eyes closed. And your fingers stuck in your ears. Screaming LALALALALALA.
Manchu wrote:Popular 20 years ago, huh? I thought you were in China, not on the moon. In a cave. With you eyes closed. And your fingers stuck in your ears. Screaming LALALALALALA.
He's young, most of Jackson's music is lost on those who have no sense of musical context. Not saying Kyoto has no musical context, but Michael Jackson's songs have been popular for the last 20 years. Thriller sells over 130,000 copies each year. That's a lot for an album that's over 20 years old.
I don't understand why people use the payouts as justification for assuming guilt. I'm not a parent, but if I was then no amount of money would deter me from someone seeking justice against a person who had molested my child. Logically I think it's far more likely that MJ offered to pay out to avoid a media circus trial that would have been damaging to his career regardless of the verdict. That the parents took cash over justice just confirmed that, chances are, it was all about the money in the first place.
I'm rather shocked by the amount of Bile in this and the other, now closed, MJ thread. The 'theres no smoke without fire' argumnet is piffle and the root cause of many an injustice.
He was vulnerable eccentric who was denied his own childhood. This in turn made him a target for money grabbers.
RIP. Its unfortunate that the media and its gossip followers hounded MJ; anyone under that amount of incredible stress would probably suffer an early fate.
Though one good thing did come from it. I spent 12 long, hot hours in the Cab today, and the Radio was playing lots and lots of Jackson 5 and Solo stuff. Wasn't until I heard it all played together I realised just how many of his songs I liked!
And guys, come on. He was tried and acquitted of kiddy diddling. This means he was not a kiddy diddler. At all. Was it inappropriate for him to share his bed with kids? Yup, sure was. But from Michael Bashir's interview it seemed pretty apparent that he himself cannot be defined as an Adult. He never actually grew up in the way people normally do. Thus, inappropriate it might have been, but I really do not believe there was anything sinister at all in it.
Plus, the first case was a civil one, due to a complete lack of eivdence for a criminal trial. Add in to that that the last claim came from parents who had tried very similar things in the past, all to make money.
In the whole thing, if anyone was at fault for the bed sharing stuff, it was his minders and advisers for not saying no to him on that one.
And besides, mud does indeed stick, so having been accused once, and settling out of court, what parent would take the risk that there was something to it and let their kids sleep over? Oh yeah! Twisted, parasetic greedy, grasping little arseholes looking for a quick score.
problem is, the older types can respect him for his music and all that stuff, but that came and went before half the internet people were even alive, so all they have to go on is the kiddie-touching stories.
Sucks to see him go. I remember wishing I could be cool enough to have a red thriller jacket when I was like 10.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:I'm surprisingly bummed about his death.
Though one good thing did come from it. I spent 12 long, hot hours in the Cab today, and the Radio was playing lots and lots of Jackson 5 and Solo stuff. Wasn't until I heard it all played together I realised just how many of his songs I liked!
And guys, come on. He was tried and acquitted of kiddy diddling. This means he was not a kiddy diddler. At all. Was it inappropriate for him to share his bed with kids? Yup, sure was. But from Michael Bashir's interview it seemed pretty apparent that he himself cannot be defined as an Adult. He never actually grew up in the way people normally do. Thus, inappropriate it might have been, but I really do not believe there was anything sinister at all in it.
Plus, the first case was a civil one, due to a complete lack of eivdence for a criminal trial. Add in to that that the last claim came from parents who had tried very similar things in the past, all to make money.
In the whole thing, if anyone was at fault for the bed sharing stuff, it was his minders and advisers for not saying no to him on that one.
And besides, mud does indeed stick, so having been accused once, and settling out of court, what parent would take the risk that there was something to it and let their kids sleep over? Oh yeah! Twisted, parasetic greedy, grasping little arseholes looking for a quick score.
And this is why MDG is one of the few forum posters I actually honestly respect on these boards, and previously on Seer. (Oh and that doesn't mean I hate the rest of you guys and gals, just respect is not something I give lightly. )
Necros wrote:problem is, the older types can respect him for his music and all that stuff, but that came and went before half the internet people were even alive, so all they have to go on is the kiddie-touching stories.
Sucks to see him go. I remember wishing I could be cool enough to have a red thriller jacket when I was like 10.
One of my brothers had that bright red leather jacket with all the zippers on it. Damn to be a 80s kid lol
greenskin lynn wrote:clearly you all need to read dr mcninja.
that was his double, he actually lives in dracula's moon base with bruce lee and a few others
Being acquitted doesn't mean someone is innocent. It just means you bought a better lawyer.
"They searched Michael Jackson's bedroom and found life-size dolls of little boys, one of them dressed in a Cub Scout suit. Innocent enough, but if they searched my room and found a life-size doll of a woman, everyone would assume I was fu.ckin' it. And they'd be right!"
- Ron White
utan wrote:
"They searched Michael Jackson's bedroom and found life-size dolls of little boys, one of them dressed in a Cub Scout suit. Innocent enough, but if they searched my room and found a life-size doll of a woman, everyone would assume I was fu.ckin' it. And they'd be right!"
- Ron White
I like to try to forget that Ron White attempts comedy.
utan wrote:Being acquitted doesn't mean someone is innocent. It just means you bought a better lawyer.
"They searched Michael Jackson's bedroom and found life-size dolls of little boys, one of them dressed in a Cub Scout suit. Innocent enough, but if they searched my room and found a life-size doll of a woman, everyone would assume I was fu.ckin' it. And they'd be right!" - Ron White
Better lawyer??
Kids and Kids parent claim Michael gave them Wine which he called 'Jesus Juice', twisting the nickname for a bottle of plonk into something sinister.
Michael Jackson, and his staff* claim the kids were unruly little sods who'd break into the Wine Cellar to pinch bottles.
Hearsay is not evidence. Whatever happened to 'Innocent Until Proven Guilty'. You know, the central tenet of US and UK Law?
*I suspect someone might claim he paid his staff to fight his corner. This is of course highly possible, but if he had, surely they would stand to gain a lot more financially by telling the truth? Think of the money from Magazine interviews, Oprah, telly, the whole lot. They would make a crap load more than MJ bribing them I'd wager.
So some kids claim to be able to identify a birthmark on his genitalia. So they might have seem him in the buff at some point? Like I dunno, they might just have walked in on him having a shower. Lots of ways you can see a person sans clothes without ever having sex with them. And assuming this is at the very least a reasonable arguement, and that the parents were clearly just after money (this wasn't the first time the family that took him to trial had tried this...) what if the parents had encouraged them to catch sight of Michael in the altogether?
Remember, a Jury has to find someone guilty beyond reasonable doubt. And if thats not the case when it comes to someone who may or may not have an unhealthy interest in kids, then you really need to reasses your views. Innocent until wildly speculated guilty in the modern gutter press is not the way we do things in the West. At least, not the last time I checked.
You are being a bit disingenuous MDG. You chastise people for thinking he did it when you also absolutely don't know that he didn't. We haven't seen or heard all the evidence their is to seen or know all their is to know. Each side of the argument can (and has) their own pieces of things they like to hold up and say is evidence for or against but that ignores the fundamental reality that no one knows. You don't know, I don't know, no one does. You can lean one way or the other, but you can't absolutely know. I don't know and I don't care. The only thing I knew about MJ was his music and that isn't dead. I can listen to Smooth Criminal anytime I want.
I can't say with certainty about the UK's legal system but in the US the amount you can spend on a defense (ie more and better lawyers) makes a huge difference in a trial. It is often the difference between guilty and not guilty and one of the largest continuing debates in our criminal justice system.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Whatever happened to 'Innocent Until Proven Guilty'. You know, the central tenet of US and UK Law?
You tell me. How can I be arrested for being on the street after someone called the cops for an unrelated reason? Even thought I had a legitimate excuse to be there? Might it be because of my painted/studded leather jacket and my plaid bondage pants? Might the fact that I get harassed by cops for that and African Americans get pulled over at a significantly higher rate have something to do with the judicial system being less than perfect?
Honestly, there's not much I can do for you if you believe that the guilty are punished and the innocent walk free.
Habeas corpus is dead. I wouldn't expect any other central tenets to last much longer.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:So some kids claim to be able to identify a birthmark on his genitalia. So they might have seem him in the buff at some point? Like I dunno, they might just have walked in on him having a shower. Lots of ways you can see a person sans clothes without ever having sex with them.
True, I have seen people naked that I have not had sex with. But no children have "accidentally" seen me naked. It's just not that hard to keep your clothes on around kids. Allowing them to see him naked is extremely suspicious and I fail to see how it could reasonably happen accidentally.
Civilized world doesn't mean perfect world. We are "civilized" in the sense that more often than not we aren't going around killing and stealing all the time (or more than we could be). That doesn't mean that our infrastructure or systems are infallible; that they always work the way in practice as we believe they should work in the realm of ideas.
Mad Rabbit wrote:You tell me. How can I be arrested for being on the street after someone called the cops for an unrelated reason?
"Innocent until proven guilty" means you aren't sentenced until proven guilty, not that aren't arrested without having been proven guilty.
Your examples make no sense in that regard. You haven't been proven guilty in a court of law because you're wearing a jacket, but you haven't been proven guilty in a court of law if you're standing over a corpse with a bloody knife either. You're just going into some tangent on police corruption, which is neither here nor there.
LuciusAR wrote:By the law of the civilized world it does. The alternative is terrifying.
At the level of government, yes it is very important that a person be considered innocent until proven guilty, and if tried and found innocent they should be allowed to continue with their lives. These are important principles for government to maintain, because government is very powerful. On the other hand, we are people on the internet and not powerful at all.
So if we look at the case of Michael Jackson and say 'that guy was probably a kiddie fiddler' civilisation isn't being threatened.
.
