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Post by: garret
I was wondering can anyone whos alive right know(in the 41st mil that is) take on the emporer and win?
We already know chuck norris and sly marbo can but who else?
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Post by: combo
at this point in time anyone, just pull him of life support.
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Post by: Jon Touchdown
ME =p
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Post by: Aftersong
One of the C'tan would probably tear him a new one
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Post by: Try Again Bragg
A titan perhaps? No matter what a guardsmen with a pair of wire snips that goes to town on the throne won't make the emperor happy.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
combo wrote:at this point in time anyone, just pull him of life support.
FTW! The end! Case closed!
Anyway this thread is Heresy! REPENT! REPENT!
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Post by: High Commissar Biffsmack
Chuck Norris.
I'm sorry, I just had to.
don't judge me.
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Post by: Orkestra
The real question remains to be asked.
Who is this 'emporer' person anyway?
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
Uh Horus, in fact he had almost won...
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Post by: Jon Garrett
Only because the Emeperor didn't want to vaporize his favoured son. Remember, when he decided Horus needed spanking he gathered so much mental firepower the Chaos Gods themselves screamed like sissy girls and ran the hell away, then proceded to vaporize Horus' very soul.
Honestly, even currently, he's still likely got enough juice to kill anything that could manage to get near him. We already have a good idea that he can beat up C'tan and could take on and take out any of the Chaos Gods. The question is more would he be paying enough attention to his body to kill whatever came near him. If he isn't then a toddle with scissors could take him out. If he is then he could snap an Imperitor over one mental knee.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
lol, toddler with scissors dooms the imperium to darkness.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
Jon Garrett wrote:Only because the Emeperor didn't want to vaporize his favoured son. Remember, when he decided Horus needed spanking he gathered so much mental firepower the Chaos Gods themselves screamed like sissy girls and ran the hell away, then proceded to vaporize Horus' very soul.
Honestly, even currently, he's still likely got enough juice to kill anything that could manage to get near him. We already have a good idea that he can beat up C'tan and could take on and take out any of the Chaos Gods. The question is more would he be paying enough attention to his body to kill whatever came near him. If he isn't then a toddle with scissors could take him out. If he is then he could snap an Imperitor over one mental knee.
If i remember correctly the reason Horus was killed is because rather than killing his father he decided to brutally murder the Guardsmen/Space Marine who found the Emperor laying there broken, so if he would have just killed the Emperor first things would be different.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
? Let me guess the Horus Heresy models?
From what I've heard, Emperor DID kind of pwn Horus. Who WAS backed by the chaos gods. Who DID lose...BADLY.
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Post by: Jon Garrett
BrotherStynier wrote:
If i remember correctly the reason Horus was killed is because rather than killing his father he decided to brutally murder the Guardsmen/Space Marine who found the Emperor laying there broken, so if he would have just killed the Emperor first things would be different.
Yes, but that was because it made the Emeperor decide there was no hope for Horus. Then he attacked with all his power. In terms of raw power the Emperor could have destroyed Horus the moment he saw him and Horus could have done nothing to stop it, in the same he couldn't stop it when the Emperor did decide to kill him.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
Jon Garrett wrote:BrotherStynier wrote:
If i remember correctly the reason Horus was killed is because rather than killing his father he decided to brutally murder the Guardsmen/Space Marine who found the Emperor laying there broken, so if he would have just killed the Emperor first things would be different.
Yes, but that was because it made the Emeperor decide there was no hope for Horus. Then he attacked with all his power. In terms of raw power the Emperor could have destroyed Horus the moment he saw him and Horus could have done nothing to stop it, in the same he couldn't stop it when the Emperor did decide to kill him.
I won't try to argue against the Emperor being able to kill him out right, only that if anyone could have killed him it would have been Horus had he of pressed his advantage, and used the Emperor's love for him against him.
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Post by: High Commissar Biffsmack
Jon Garrett wrote:Only because the Emeperor didn't want to vaporize his favoured son. Remember, when he decided Horus needed spanking he gathered so much mental firepower the Chaos Gods themselves screamed like sissy girls and ran the hell away, then proceded to vaporize Horus' very soul.
Honestly, even currently, he's still likely got enough juice to kill anything that could manage to get near him. We already have a good idea that he can beat up C'tan and could take on and take out any of the Chaos Gods. The question is more would he be paying enough attention to his body to kill whatever came near him. If he isn't then a toddle with scissors could take him out. If he is then he could snap an Imperitor over one mental knee.
If the emperor could take out any of the chaos gods, then why doesn't he just go have some big psychic battle with them? One at a time? Man to man? (except in the case of Slaanesh, who's of questionable gender... he'd probably kick Slaanesh's ass, though, I'll give you that)
Jon Garrett wrote:BrotherStynier wrote:
If i remember correctly the reason Horus was killed is because rather than killing his father he decided to brutally murder the Guardsmen/Space Marine who found the Emperor laying there broken, so if he would have just killed the Emperor first things would be different.
Yes, but that was because it made the Emeperor decide there was no hope for Horus. Then he attacked with all his power. In terms of raw power the Emperor could have destroyed Horus the moment he saw him and Horus could have done nothing to stop it, in the same he couldn't stop it when the Emperor did decide to kill him.
@ john: yeah but Horus is still like 25 times more badass
@Stynier (above post): Good point. People talk about the emperor's uber scary psychic powers, but his one weakness was psychological. If you want to beat someone, that's the place to shoot for. Horus should have made sure he was dead... but I suppose then 40k wouldn't be as much fun, so whatever. Hopefully as the Chaos gods grow more powerful Abaddon will get the job done. He has a cooler name anyway.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
@Biffsmack: Yeah the game wouldn't be the same, it would just be like a more Grimdark Star Wars or something.
I don't know about Abaddon having the cooler name, I like Horus, it reminds me of Egypt and Iron Maiden.
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Post by: High Commissar Biffsmack
BrotherStynier wrote:@Biffsmack: Yeah the game wouldn't be the same, it would just be like a more Grimdark Star Wars or something.
I don't know about Abaddon having the cooler name, I like Horus, it reminds me of Egypt and Iron Maiden.
Whoa, you just made me realize how much rebel Soldiers and a Cadians look alike.... weird....
Yeah Horus is an uberawesome name (\m/ Iron Maiden! \m/) but Abaddon means like 'Place of Destruction' or 'The Destroyer' or 'Realm of the Dead', or 'The Depths of Hell' which does it for me, I suppose because I tend to like that stuff alot  ...
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
You also realized that you want an Imp Guard army painted up as Rebel Troopers, with Pilots and vehicle crews having the Orange and White Uniforms...
Hey when it comes down to it its pretty much all about personal preference when it comes to things like that
Up the Irons!
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Post by: Manchu
I'm not so sure that the Emperor's benevolence is his one weakness. Why he even allowed things to unfold as they did, assuming he is/was truly as powerful as the fluff makes him out to be, is mysterious. But I think that it has something to do with his love for humanity in general and the Primarchs in particular. Most of the Primarch, IMO, are total losers because they do not share this quality with their father. I'm not just talking about the traitors here (who are without exception all total losers). Guilliman and Dorn, for all their righteousness, are just priggish stiffs. It's not clear whether they protect humanity for humanity's sake or out of (1) pride for Roboute and (2) thoughtless, Nazi-like loyalty for Rogal. No need to even talk about the likes of Lion El'Jonson (Thundercats! HO!) The Primarch that comes closest to the Emperor, if not in power or knowledge but rather in sincerity and concern for humanity, is the Wolf King. Also unlike many the others, Russ clearly never saw himself as a copy or possible stand-in/replacement for the Emperor. In sum, most of the Primarchs--including the tremendously vain Horus--lacked the Emperor's greatest strength: the real love and benevolence toward humanity that could unite trillions of people into his service even ten thousand years after his "death."
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Post by: High Commissar Biffsmack
@Stynier
 Cadian/Rebels... pure awesome ness. I'd like totally do that if I was donald trump or something. Wait, no way! um... Bill Gates? no.. uh... gods, uber rich people are always either lame or old. Usually both.
true dat. I like destruction and death and you like Egypt and Iron Maiden... hell they're all awesome when it comes down to it.
Up the Irons!
hell yeah!
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
I don't think the Eprah could be able to take on the Chaos gods. He be a tough cookie sure, but he would definitley not be able to kill them outright.
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Post by: theocd
I don't whether who could but I know who would. The cleaner. Just mopping around the back of the throne and pulls the 6 watt plug out. Disaster!
The OC-D
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Have you seen the picture of the golden throne? I don't think they even HAVE a cleaner.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
High Commissar Biffsmack wrote: @Stynier
Cadian/Rebels... pure awesome ness. I'd like totally do that if I was donald trump or something. Wait, no way! um... Bill Gates? no.. uh... gods, uber rich people are always either lame or old. Usually both.
true dat. I like destruction and death and you like Egypt and Iron Maiden... hell they're all awesome when it comes down to it.
I might have to eventually steal my own idea. Oh and death and destruction can be cool as well I mean come on.
Up the Irons!
Biffsmack wrote:hell yeah!
Yes indeed.
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Post by: High Commissar Biffsmack
Manchu wrote:I'm not so sure that the Emperor's benevolence is his one weakness. Why he even allowed things to unfold as they did, assuming he is/was truly as powerful as the fluff makes him out to be, is mysterious. But I think that it has something to do with his love for humanity in general and the Primarchs in particular. Most of the Primarch, IMO, are total losers because they do not share this quality with their father. I'm not just talking about the traitors here (who are without exception all total losers). Guilliman and Dorn, for all their righteousness, are just priggish stiffs. It's not clear whether they protect humanity for humanity's sake or out of (1) pride for Roboute and (2) thoughtless, Nazi-like loyalty for Rogal. No need to even talk about the likes of Lion El'Jonson (Thundercats! HO!) The Primarch that comes closest to the Emperor, if not in power or knowledge but rather in sincerity and concern for humanity, is the Wolf King. Also unlike many the others, Russ clearly never saw himself as a copy or possible stand-in/replacement for the Emperor. In sum, most of the Primarchs--including the tremendously vain Horus--lacked the Emperor's greatest strength: the real love and benevolence toward humanity that could unite trillions of people into his service even ten thousand years after his "death."
Actually I was more under the impression that trillions of people are in his service ten thousand years after his death because they get shot in the face if they don't... and I wouldn't exactly call him benevolent, he does sort of consume thousands of human souls every day.... and don't you think he would have gone to greater trouble to instill his Primarchs with better values if he was so caring about the human race? Automatically Appended Next Post: BrotherStynier wrote:High Commissar Biffsmack wrote: @Stynier
Cadian/Rebels... pure awesome ness. I'd like totally do that if I was donald trump or something. Wait, no way! um... Bill Gates? no.. uh... gods, uber rich people are always either lame or old. Usually both.
true dat. I like destruction and death and you like Egypt and Iron Maiden... hell they're all awesome when it comes down to it.
I might have to eventually steal my own idea. Oh and death and destruction can be cool as well I mean come on.
Up the Irons!
Biffsmack wrote:hell yeah!
Yes indeed.
Steal it will you? well too bad! you'll never get your filthy hands on it you vile vondruke! it's mine! ALL MINE!!! 
oh and yeah death and destruction can be very cool. For instance, in 40k. Hell, that's what it's all about!
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Also I would not think Russ to be the closest similarity.
I think that Horus was always the first-born, the finest, the most loved and trusted. I would not say it was ultimately vanity that was his downfall (some obscure ritual and what's-his-face's lies).
Anyway, the Emperor (and many others) are cleary idealistic and NOT after thier own glory. It is a wish to unite humanity, and a realisation that harsh measures must be taken to prevent the human races downfall.
Only united do humans stand a chance.
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Post by: High Commissar Biffsmack
And the best way to unite an empire of countless trillions is to make them unite or bombard their planet with showers of plasma globs the size of large trees!
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Yes! Someone who sees the light!
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Post by: High Commissar Biffsmack
ah, totalitarianism can be so much fun.
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Post by: Manchu
High Commissar Biffsmack wrote:Actually I was more under the impression that trillions of people are in his service ten thousand years after his death because they get shot in the face if they don't...
The logic is unworkable. If no one wanted to serve the emperor, then no one would be holding the gun to shoot the dissenter. If you answer that it is all a matter of hierarchy, your argument will devolve into "A only obeys because his superior B will shoot him otherwise; B only obeys because his superior C will shoot him otherwise" and on and on until you have one person holding the entire rest of the galaxy hostage. Pretty ridiculous. The trillions serve him because they sincerely believe in him.
High Commissar Biffsmack wrote:and I wouldn't exactly call him benevolent, he does sort of consume thousands of human souls every day....
The casualties in the choir that sustains the Emperor are no different from the casualties on the battlefield. Both are necessary sacrifices for the survival of humanity as a race which, in the universe of 40k, morally trumps the value of an individual life or even ten million individual lives.
High Commissar Biffsmack wrote:and don't you think he would have gone to greater trouble to instill his Primarchs with better values if he was so caring about the human race.
The Primarchs were scattered to the wind before he could instill anything into them one way or the other. Why this happened is truly unknown. (And, no, it has not been explained in the HH series.) Are you asking why the Emperor didn't brainwash them after he found them? They were supposed to be the best of humanity on their own strengths. The fact that the Primarchs fell ( IMO, as I've said, even the "loyal" ones) is because they end up just being human after all. I'm not sure how this shows that the Emperor is bad or a tyrant. To me, it shows that he has respect free will.
Emperors Faithful wrote:I think that Horus was always the first-born, the finest, the most loved and trusted. I would not say it was ultimately vanity that was his downfall (some obscure ritual and what's-his-face's lies).
If Horus was so great, why didn't he see through Lorgar's lies? The answer is simple. Horus was not so great. He was essentially vain. The entire Heresy is the result of one, ultimately arrogant question: "Why should he be the Emperor and not me?"
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
@Manchu: There was a lot of fluff about a conspiracy to sicken, and corrupt Horus. It is pretty clear that Lorgar was the instigator no? Was Horus being selfish, or did he believe he was doing the right thing? That humanity had to serve chaos to survive?
Also, it is written (in the archives of fluff) that the chaos spirits (it says spirits not gods) spirited the caskets with the babies in them away, though they could not break the protective wards the emperor had placed on them. So they scattered them.
To me this seems flawed. Why did they not just whisk them away and leave them in deep space, instead of on planets?
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Post by: Manchu
Emperors Faithful wrote:@Manchu: There was a lot of fluff about a conspiracy to sicken, and corrupt Horus. It is pretty clear that Lorgar was the instigator no? Was Horus being selfish, or did he believe he was doing the right thing? That humanity had to serve chaos to survive?
The thing about turning to evil is that no one can make you do it. If someone makes you do an evil thing, they are the ones who are evil not you. At some point, Horus stopped having an excuse. He gave into his arrogance, put aside everything but his own lust for domination, and prepared to sell the soul of humanity itself for his own glory. It was his choice.
Emperors Faithful wrote:Also, it is written (in the archives of fluff) that the chaos spirits (it says spirits not gods) spirited the caskets with the babies in them away, though they could not break the protective wards the emperor had placed on them. So they scattered them. To me this seems flawed. Why did they not just whisk them away and leave them in deep space, instead of on planets?
I promise you, this has never been fully answered. It probably never will be. The answer that you quote was provided by the Chaos gods themselves, through Erebus, to seduce Horus. Believe it if you want. I think its Chaos lies.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Which one is Erebus? Death Guard?
And if that is true than why did the chaos gods spare those who would continue to be loyal to the Emprah?
Russ, Gulliman, Dorn, The Lion (sort of) etc.
I agree with you though. I one point (mabye at the massacre of his bro's?) he stopped having an excuse.
The Emprah trusted Horus so much he didn't TRULY believe it until he saw Horus firsthand.
Anyway the thread post clearly said alive in the 41st millenium. Horus is long dead. Looooooooong AND deeeeaaaad.
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Post by: Manchu
Erebus was a Word Bearers chaplain.
Emperors Faithful wrote:And if that is true than why did the chaos gods spare those who would continue to be loyal to the Emprah?
That is a good question. At least two answers arise: (1) it is not true at all and just another corrupting lie of chaos OR (2) even Chaos gods cannot foresee all of the consequences of human free will. I think both answers are correct.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
High Commissar Biffsmack wrote:
Steal it will you? well too bad! you'll never get your filthy hands on it you vile vondruke! it's mine! ALL MINE!!!
oh and yeah death and destruction can be very cool. For instance, in 40k. Hell, that's what it's all about!
Then it seems apparent we must duel for the knowledge.... have at you
Indeed that's part of what make the 40k universe what it is.
Manchu wrote:
If Horus was so great, why didn't he see through Lorgar's lies? The answer is simple. Horus was not so great. He was essentially vain. The entire Heresy is the result of one, ultimately arrogant question: "Why should he be the Emperor and not me?"
Horus was the most human of the Primarchs, he wanted to know that what he was doing was right, he confided in his closest friends, the Mournival and Erebus, and in his brothers particularly Sanguinius whom he apparently looked up to. When his father thrusted this upon him he was probably over whelmed and looked to those he could trust, one of them being Lorgar, who allowed Chaos to get to him.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
...Damn it! How can chaos gods plan to manipulate the timeline if they are OUT of time? (what don't answer, the answer would be 15pages or something.)
Anyway, I think a good, decent surprise orbital bombardment would deal with the golden throne.
Or nids, but they wouldn't have a fun time doing so.
Tau would probably move him to a 'greater good: old folks home'
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
Emperors Faithful wrote:
Anyway the thread post clearly said alive in the 41st millenium. Horus is long dead. Looooooooong AND deeeeaaaad.
Didn't we actually just start the 42nd?
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Post by: Manchu
BrotherStynier wrote:Horus was the most human of the Primarchs, he wanted to know that what he was doing was right, he confided in his closest friends, the Mournival and Erebus, and in his brothers particularly Sanguinius whom he apparently looked up to. When his father thrusted this upon him he was probably over whelmed and looked to those he could trust, one of them being Lorgar, who allowed Chaos to get to him.
Thrust what upon him? The Great Crusade? He wanted the title of Warmaster. You cannot successfully present Horus as a modest and humble man at any point in his career. As to confiding in his friends, Horus stopped having friends as he fell. By a certain point he had no friends at all, only followers. The key scene of his fall, the ritual on Davin, runs parallel to the breaking of the Mourneval. I'm sorry, I see that you admire the character, but your arguments are simply not based in the storyline.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
No, we just started the 41st...right? it's not called 42k. We were on the eve of the 41st millenium.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
The fall of Medusa V is listed as happening 006.M42
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
...? But, did we just skip a whole millenium?
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
The BGB of 4th Ed lists the Current date as 999. M41. So no we didn't skip a millennium, the other editions covered it.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
hmmm, so humanity has survived for 12,000 years after emprah?
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Post by: Manchu
Good job humanity!
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
Emperors Faithful wrote:hmmm, so humanity has survived for 12,000 years after emprah?
Barely at times but yes.
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Post by: combo
To be honest whenever I read about the horus heresy I cannot help but be reminded of book1 and 2 of the epic Paradise Lost by John Milton.
But then again every fantasy/scifi tends to end up having intentional or none intentional biblical or classical references.
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Post by: Mistress of minis
A plumbing servitor, going through mellenia of routine ritual....flushes the Emporers withered husk while weilding a plunger on the backed up Golden Throne....
Now I must go convert said servitor....Im thinking like a tantacle arm for a drain snake and a power plunger on the other...
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Post by: CF Scout
High Commissar Biffsmack wrote: And the best way to unite an empire of countless trillions is to make them unite or bombard their planet with showers of plasma globs the size of large trees!
Oh course if they don't survive, wipe the civilization out and re-settle. Isn't that was Virus Bombs were for anyways? Sometimes the only way to fix it is to flush it all away.
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Post by: Golden Eyed Scout
I would beat him out of that coma, then back into one, just to teach him a lesson for losing to Horus but somehow winning. He half assed it.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
...Most definitely.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
Manchu wrote:BrotherStynier wrote:Horus was the most human of the Primarchs, he wanted to know that what he was doing was right, he confided in his closest friends, the Mournival and Erebus, and in his brothers particularly Sanguinius whom he apparently looked up to. When his father thrusted this upon him he was probably over whelmed and looked to those he could trust, one of them being Lorgar, who allowed Chaos to get to him.
Thrust what upon him? The Great Crusade? He wanted the title of Warmaster. You cannot successfully present Horus as a modest and humble man at any point in his career. As to confiding in his friends, Horus stopped having friends as he fell. By a certain point he had no friends at all, only followers. The key scene of his fall, the ritual on Davin, runs parallel to the breaking of the Mourneval. I'm sorry, I see that you admire the character, but your arguments are simply not based in the storyline.
Sorry I missed this last night it got lost in a discussion about whether it was M42 or not.
I remember Horus at first feeling that Sanguinius should have become the Warmaster rather than him and was conflicted over it, they say that much in the story line. I know that at a certain point he had only followers that was after his Corruption, after his brother and friend took advantage of him and offered him to the gods as their champion. This is all in the story line. Yes he was ambitious as most men are, yes eventually he embraced his title as Warmaster but he was still shaken up by his father leaving and dropping everything in his lap.
Hell he even refused to rename the Luna Wolves the Sons of Horus until his most trusted brother convinced him other wise. Up until his corruption he needed those closest to him.
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Post by: Lord Chiasson
I have to agree with alot of what Manchu has been saying, I mean Horus at first thought he was doing right by betraying the Emperor, but then if you notice even in the book he starts to think of himself as a King in his own right and cares only for if He is crowned the new Emperor. And as for the Chaos Gods scattering the Primarches instead of killing them ive thought on this and I think its pretty good, Who could get close enough to kill the Emperor then his most beloved son, even when his treachery was out in the open at the Final battle The Emperor hesitated to kill Horus which got him crippled.
So the Chaos Gods sent them away to be raised as future warriors for there plans to strike at The Emperor and try to have Man fall, it was win, win for Chaos once Horus was turned. Either they won the Galaxy outright that day, or The Emperor would be crippled and The Imperium would slowly decline(perhaps  . But of Course in the end it was all the Primarches free will that they betrayed the Emperor, but there time away from him were influenced by chaos.
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Post by: Dreadwinter
Manchu wrote:I'm not so sure that the Emperor's benevolence is his one weakness. Why he even allowed things to unfold as they did, assuming he is/was truly as powerful as the fluff makes him out to be, is mysterious.
I personally believe that he allowed these events to unfold because he expected to be killed outright by Horus and take the chaos gods with him as he did. Notice he tried talking Horus out of it, baiting and letting him get closer and closer to killing him before vaporizing his soul. I believe he planned to suicide and take down the chaos gods with him as he did, he put everything into that blast and it would have all went back on them, doing fatal or at the very least, severe damage.
Then he would have been reborn again and the universe would have been without the Chaos gods until a time that they themselves were reborn.
Manchu wrote:But I think that it has something to do with his love for humanity in general and the Primarchs in particular. Most of the Primarch, IMO, are total losers because they do not share this quality with their father. I'm not just talking about the traitors here (who are without exception all total losers). Guilliman and Dorn, for all their righteousness, are just priggish stiffs. It's not clear whether they protect humanity for humanity's sake or out of (1) pride for Roboute and (2) thoughtless, Nazi-like loyalty for Rogal. No need to even talk about the likes of Lion El'Jonson (Thundercats! HO!) The Primarch that comes closest to the Emperor, if not in power or knowledge but rather in sincerity and concern for humanity, is the Wolf King. Also unlike many the others, Russ clearly never saw himself as a copy or possible stand-in/replacement for the Emperor. In sum, most of the Primarchs--including the tremendously vain Horus--lacked the Emperor's greatest strength: the real love and benevolence toward humanity that could unite trillions of people into his service even ten thousand years after his "death."
What about Sanguinius? He had great love for his father, and in turn he fought for the people of the Imperium tirelessly. He was very compassionate and also a fearsome and ferocious warrior. He is also the second most beloved figure by the people of the Imperium, second only to the Emperor himself.
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Post by: Orlanth
combo wrote:at this point in time anyone, just pull him of life support.
IMHO that would save the Emperor not destroy him.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Lord Chiasson wrote:
So the Chaos Gods sent them away to be raised as future warriors for there plans to strike at The Emperor and try to have Man fall, it was win, win for Chaos once Horus was turned. Either they won the Galaxy outright that day, or The Emperor would be crippled and The Imperium would slowly decline(perhaps . But of Course in the end it was all the Primarches free will that they betrayed the Emperor, but there time away from him were influenced by chaos.
Now that doesn't make sense. Horus was the one to the Emperor, yes? But Horus was the FIRST primarch found. He was the closest one to Terra, on a neighboring planet. So the Emperor had a lot of time to make an impression on his son. I don't think that scattering them had much to do with twisting thier loyalties. Automatically Appended Next Post: Also are we including the Custodian Guards and Palace? Cuase that would mean that all posts of 'pulling the plug' would be stuffed.
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Post by: scifi112233
hmmmmmm my bet would go on zogwort turnign the emperor into a squig
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Post by: Jungle0731
This is in response to the following
"The Primarch that comes closest to the Emperor, if not in power or knowledge but rather in sincerity and concern for humanity, is the Wolf King. Also unlike many the others, Russ clearly never saw himself as a copy or possible stand-in/replacement for the Emperor. In sum, most of the Primarchs--including the tremendously vain Horus--lacked the Emperor's greatest strength: the real love and benevolence toward humanity that could unite trillions of people into his service even ten thousand years after his "death."
I am sorry, but there is simply no way Russ can be considered the closest to the Emperor in terms of love for humanity. The Russ had a lot of positive qualities, and I am not trying to start some kind of "war" here but respect for humanity and human life in general is Vulkan's trait and it is noted in almost every single piece of fluff regarding him or his chapter. Russ had a lot of qualities, but in terms of respect for humans it was Vulkan's cause and it is continued by the Salamanders.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
Jungle0731 wrote:
I am sorry, but there is simply no way Russ can be considered the closest to the Emperor in terms of love for humanity. The Russ had a lot of positive qualities, and I am not trying to start some kind of "war" here but respect for humanity and human life in general is Vulkan's trait and it is noted in almost every single piece of fluff regarding him or his chapter. Russ had a lot of qualities, but in terms of respect for humans it was Vulkan's cause and it is continued by the Salamanders.
Wasn't that the whole reason Vulkan bowed to him? Because in the competition the Emperor threw his Fire Drake, which was larger that the one Vulkan killed, into lava so he could save Vulkan from falling. So when they got back to town and the people bowed to Vulkan he swore fealty to the Emperor anyway because he was willing to serve someone who would cast aside victory to save a life?
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Yes!
Amen! All hail the Emperor! A warrior, a humanitatian but most importantly a slamander poacher!
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Post by: Noisy_Marine
The chaos gods wanted the Emperor to defeat Horus.
No, seriously, they did. Why? Because if Horus won mankind would be consumed by chaos and quickly cease to exist. This leaves the chaos gods with no toys to play with. OTOH, allowing the Imperium to stagnate for thousands of years allows plenty of time for the chaos gods to play with mortals like the toys they are.
Back on topic: The emperor has been defeated by the Imperium's slow decline into religious ignorance. Even his awesome psychic powers can't stop the Imperium from wasting away to nothing.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
I don't think the Chaos gods (part from Tzeench) can see that far ahead. Anyway, If humanity fell wouldn't another race eagerly seize up the reigns?
There is still hope for the Imperium. These are it's toughest times, yes, but there is a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel. It is Imperiums faith in the Emprah thus far that has held them together. If anything thier faith is thier strongest point, not a weakness.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
Emperors Faithful wrote:I don't think the Chaos gods (part from Tzeench) can see that far ahead. Anyway, If humanity fell wouldn't another race eagerly seize up the reigns?
There is still hope for the Imperium. These are it's toughest times, yes, but there is a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel. It is Imperiums faith in the Emprah thus far that has held them together. If anything thier faith is thier strongest point, not a weakness.
If Legion is to be believed as Cannon, something even GW can't agree on, then if humanity is destroyed the Chaos Gods are as well, as so much of their power is drawn from humanity. Eventually over time, new gods could arise how ever.
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
Didn't the Emperor get beat up by an ork until Horus saved him?
Or was it Horus saved by the Emperor?
(Either way, you don't mess with BIG ORKS.)
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Post by: Manchu
Emperors Faithful wrote:It is Imperiums faith in the Emprah thus far that has held them together. If anything thier faith is thier strongest point, not a weakness.
QFT
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Post by: Con Carne
garret wrote:I was wondering can anyone whos alive right know(in the 41st mil that is) take on the emporer and win?
Try a Culexus assassin on for size, corpse god.
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Post by: Exarch_Nektel
Jesus could take on the emperor.
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Post by: combat_hobo
SPARTCUS.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
BrotherStynier wrote:
If Legion is to be believed as Cannon, something even GW can't agree on, then if humanity is destroyed the Chaos Gods are as well, as so much of their power is drawn from humanity. Eventually over time, new gods could arise how ever.
No, if humanity was annihilated then the chaos gods would be severly weakened, but not destroyed (EVERY SINGLE sentient being would have to be killed for that to happen) and they would eventually find another race for thier attentions (Tau mabye?)
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Post by: Cheese Elemental
Exarch_Nektel wrote:Jesus could take on the emperor.
The Empra is Jesus. He's just a Super Space Jesus with Psychic Powers ( tm).
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Post by: BOSS_PIMPALOTZ
Emperors Faithful wrote:hmmm, so humanity has survived for 12,000 years after emprah?
Emprah?? surely you mean Emperor?
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
...Emprah=Emperor, cept cooler.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
You mean its Indrick Baldeale's way of saying Emperor.
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Post by: Ironwarriors4life
Manchu wrote:I'm not so sure that the Emperor's benevolence is his one weakness. Why he even allowed things to unfold as they did, assuming he is/was truly as powerful as the fluff makes him out to be, is mysterious. But I think that it has something to do with his love for humanity in general and the Primarchs in particular. Most of the Primarch, IMO, are total losers because they do not share this quality with their father. I'm not just talking about the traitors here (who are without exception all total losers). Guilliman and Dorn, for all their righteousness, are just priggish stiffs. It's not clear whether they protect humanity for humanity's sake or out of (1) pride for Roboute and (2) thoughtless, Nazi-like loyalty for Rogal. No need to even talk about the likes of Lion El'Jonson (Thundercats! HO!) The Primarch that comes closest to the Emperor, if not in power or knowledge but rather in sincerity and concern for humanity, is the Wolf King. Also unlike many the others, Russ clearly never saw himself as a copy or possible stand-in/replacement for the Emperor. In sum, most of the Primarchs--including the tremendously vain Horus--lacked the Emperor's greatest strength: the real love and benevolence toward humanity that could unite trillions of people into his service even ten thousand years after his "death."[/quote
However,that being said,if the Emperor loved humanity truly,and to fight so hard 4 its freedom and saftey,
why is their still human slavery within the Imperium???
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Post by: halonachos
They aren't good humans who believein the emperor.
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Post by: typhus
a squig
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
@halonachos: wat do you mean?
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Post by: Exarch_Nektel
Right now, a clogged toilet could take on the Emperor.
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Post by: RustyKnight
If you mean "who could take on the Emperor as he was at the height of his power", then I doubt that there is any being in the WH40k universe that good. Enough Orks or 'Nids could drag him down, but no single being could stand a chance against the big E. 'Cept maybe Nightbringer, I don't no who he compares to the Night Dragon in terms of power.
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Post by: Demogerg
The Primarchs may have been scattered not because they were trying to destroy them, but rather because chaos knew about the coming heresy, they wanted to corrupt Horus, so they allowed him to found first. Then they split the chapters down the middle, creating enough violence and "chaos" that the Gods could draw more power from humanity.
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Post by: daedalus-templarius
Maybe the Emperor had forseen the entire heresy, knew one of his sons would fall to chaos, and then when their confrontation occurred, knew that the Chaos gods would flood their power into that son enough for the Emperor to try and strike at and destroy them while they were vulnerable on the physical plane(i.e. a large portion of their strength was outside of the Warp). Maybe this was the only way he could think of to lure the Chaos gods to where he could strike at them, and if destroyed, he could go about his merry way rebuilding all that Horus destroyed on the way to Terra, turning the galaxy into a better place.
Obviously if that was the case, it didn't really work out as planned... not grimdark enough.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
...I think the Emprah loved Horus too mcuh to sacrifice him so coldly like that.
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Post by: daedalus-templarius
Emperors Faithful wrote:...I think the Emprah loved Horus too mcuh to sacrifice him so coldly like that.
I guess we'll never know... unless its revealed in the HH books anyway.
He may not have figured it would be Horus. I see the Emperor as a chessmaster in every conceivable way, I'd think he could sacrifice a lot of things to be rid of the Chaos gods if the opportunity presented itself.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
There are two ways to go about this.
1) We are talking about the Emprah. Alive and healthy, and on his own.
2) We are talking about the Coma Emprah. Not so alive or healthy, but with a huge freaking fort, an orbital fleet, and a whole army of badass custodes.
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Post by: Xav
Manchu wrote:I'm not so sure that the Emperor's benevolence is his one weakness. Why he even allowed things to unfold as they did, assuming he is/was truly as powerful as the fluff makes him out to be, is mysterious. But I think that it has something to do with his love for humanity in general and the Primarchs in particular. Most of the Primarch, IMO, are total losers because they do not share this quality with their father. I'm not just talking about the traitors here (who are without exception all total losers). Guilliman and Dorn, for all their righteousness, are just priggish stiffs. It's not clear whether they protect humanity for humanity's sake or out of (1) pride for Roboute and (2) thoughtless, Nazi-like loyalty for Rogal. No need to even talk about the likes of Lion El'Jonson (Thundercats! HO!) The Primarch that comes closest to the Emperor, if not in power or knowledge but rather in sincerity and concern for humanity, is the Wolf King. Also unlike many the others, Russ clearly never saw himself as a copy or possible stand-in/replacement for the Emperor. In sum, most of the Primarchs--including the tremendously vain Horus--lacked the Emperor's greatest strength: the real love and benevolence toward humanity that could unite trillions of people into his service even ten thousand years after his "death."
May i ask why "love" is always the greatest weapon, i mean i dont see how love made the emporer powerful, or how "love" made Harry Potter survive the killing curse, that voldemort used on him, tbh i'd rather have a ak47 anyday.
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Post by: rubiksnoob
Edward Scissor Hands
Hello Kitty Marines
Chuck Norris
This dude (CAN'T WAIT FOR AC 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Teh Emprah Hes no Chansece!
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
...I think the legion of custodes would disagree with you.
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Post by: tigonesskay
The emporer hasn't spoken in like thousand of years. What if he is in a vegative state and the only thing that is keeping him alive is his psychic essance? In that case then anybody could kick his... Unless if the emporer could rencarnate...
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Hmmm, the sistas of battle saw the Emprah himself I fink. Now if it had been an inatimate corspe they would not have been THAT impressed, but they saw...SUMFINK...that made them change sides and kill thier heretical leader. Something big...
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Post by: tigonesskay
Emperors Faithful wrote:Hmmm, the sistas of battle saw the Emprah himself I fink. Now if it had been an inatimate corspe they would not have been THAT impressed, but they saw...SUMFINK...that made them change sides and kill thier heretical leader. Something big...
Maybe it WAS the fact that seeing the now crippled emperor made the SOB's realize what a great sarcifice he made.
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Post by: Exarch_Nektel
RustyKnight wrote:If you mean "who could take on the Emperor as he was at the height of his power", then I doubt that there is any being in the WH40k universe that good. Enough Orks or 'Nids could drag him down, but no single being could stand a chance against the big E. 'Cept maybe Nightbringer, I don't no who he compares to the Night Dragon in terms of power.
Khaine (before he shattered) could easily take on the Nightbringer. Except the Nightbringer can't actually die because the Nightbrnger IS death. I'm fairly certain the "big E" could take Khaine on, so no, the Emperor could not take on the Nightbringer.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
(edit: In response to SOB thing)
...But they already got that, right? There must have been SOME vibe. Some presence there that made them realise that their leader was a heretic.
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Post by: Beastmaster
I think that he could withstand a titan, horus could prbably win, the Nightbringer might totally kick his ass, and I dont now anything else, but im certian of this that the emperor would totally "BITCHSLAP!" sly marbo. Chuck norris is like like a less sadistic version of the nightbringer, so the emperor could not kill norris.
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Post by: deadratman
Yeah.Horus only lost because Sanguinius(hope that's spelled right) put a small dent in his armour that the emperor used to delier the finishing blow.
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
Exarch_Nektel wrote:Khaine (before he shattered) could easily take on the Nightbringer. Except the Nightbringer can't actually die because the Nightbrnger IS death. I'm fairly certain the "big E" could take Khaine on, so no, the Emperor could not take on the Nightbringer.
What? The Nightbringer created the fear of death, and he is a personification of the Grim Reaper.
I don't think that means he "is" death. Death can happen without his intervention. He's not immune to being destroyed himself. He's not even a warp entity, just an extremely powerful material one.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Orkeosaurus has got it right there. A chaos god Vs Nightbringer would equal the Nightbringer getting owned, but only if the Nightbringer was on the Gods home turf. And since the Warp is anathema to the C'tan it's unlikely there will ever be a showdown.
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Post by: Space Marine
The writers of the 40k universe they could simply just simply erase the emperor from 40k history
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Post by: Exarch_Nektel
Orkeosaurus wrote:Exarch_Nektel wrote:Khaine (before he shattered) could easily take on the Nightbringer. Except the Nightbringer can't actually die because the Nightbrnger IS death. I'm fairly certain the "big E" could take Khaine on, so no, the Emperor could not take on the Nightbringer.
What? The Nightbringer created the fear of death, and he is a personification of the Grim Reaper.
I don't think that means he "is" death. Death can happen without his intervention. He's not immune to being destroyed himself. He's not even a warp entity, just an extremely powerful material one.
Hmmm... good point. However, I must point out that he existed BEFORE the warp did. Also, whenever he is "killed" his peices form back together after a time. So he cannot truly be destroyed. Automatically Appended Next Post: Emperors Faithful wrote:Orkeosaurus has got it right there. A chaos god Vs Nightbringer would equal the Nightbringer getting owned, but only if the Nightbringer was on the Gods home turf. And since the Warp is anathema to the C'tan it's unlikely there will ever be a showdown.
I said KHAINE not KHORNE.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Oh, well isn't there talk of a battle between eldar and necrons? Khaine kind of lost becuase a certain smith god gave him a fake sword.
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Post by: halo3uber
I know who'd take out the Emperor, a tech priest performing routine maintenance on the golden Throne who accidentally crosses the red and black wires. Whoops.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Emperors Faithful wrote:BrotherStynier wrote:
If Legion is to be believed as Cannon, something even GW can't agree on, then if humanity is destroyed the Chaos Gods are as well, as so much of their power is drawn from humanity. Eventually over time, new gods could arise how ever.
No, if humanity was annihilated then the chaos gods would be severly weakened, but not destroyed (EVERY SINGLE sentient being would have to be killed for that to happen) and they would eventually find another race for thier attentions (Tau mabye?)
Then what, the Tau would be dead too, they're SENTIENT BEINGS too. Xenophobe.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
What are you trying to say?
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Post by: CajunMan550
THIS WHOLE THREAD IS HERESY!!!
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Post by: Exarch_Nektel
Emperors Faithful wrote:Oh, well isn't there talk of a battle between eldar and necrons? Khaine kind of lost becuase a certain smith god gave him a fake sword.
No, Khaine didn't lose. The Nightbringer killed a bunch of his goons because one of them had a mortal sword, but Khaine swiftly killed the Nightbringer. Not for long though. So Khaine won despite the mortal sword.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
...Then Khaine went all JACKASSY in heaven and pretty much killed EVERYONE!
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Post by: Exarch_Nektel
He maimed Vaul and killed Eldanesh. That's pretty much it.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
I thought he teared up a little more than that? (minor gods biting the dust)
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Post by: Exarch_Nektel
You're probably right. But he didn't kill pretty much everyone.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
...still mean though. Vaul cheated him I get that, but why eldanesh?
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Post by: Exarch_Nektel
Eldanesh was stupid enough to pick a fight with Khaine; also, it makes a good story.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
What was it about?
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Post by: Exarch_Nektel
Khaine fighting Eldanesh and the Falcon giving Eldanesh the 100th immortal sword (Anaris) so he could fight Khaine.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
And he still lost?
Also, who is falcon?
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Post by: Exarch_Nektel
He was fighting Khaine, of course he lost.
falcon was just that- a Falcon. It is Falcon for whom the Falcon Grav tanks are named.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Khaine sounds like a real jackass.
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Post by: Exarch_Nektel
Yeah, he was. Now his million little peices are.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Ew, there's little pieces of jackass everywhere!
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Post by: RxGhost
They're just Tau, don't be gettin' yo power panties in a bunch.
Emperors Faithful wrote:Ew, there's little pieces of jackass everywhere!
Oh god, in the grimdark of the far future, the internet still exists!
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
LOL
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Post by: deadratman
Freaking horus if sanguinus didnt put that dent in his armour.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
deadratman wrote:Freaking horus if sanguinus didnt put that dent in his armour.
lol! QFT! Way to go sanguinius!
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Post by: Silverthorne
Um no. Even Sanguinus could have taken Horus down. He was fighting him, purely defensively, and arguing about why he was wrong AT THE SAME TIME. And doing fine until all 4 chaos gods simultaneously mind back stabbed him and Horus got him.
As for who could kill the big E, enslavers?
OR OLD ONES FTW
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
I don't think Sanguinius (or any other primarch) could take on Horus man-to-man, he was always the purported to be the strongest, wisest of the Primarchs (hence, the leader). Even moreso when he was backed by the fell-powers.
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Post by: Dreadwinter
Emperors Faithful wrote:I don't think Sanguinius (or any other primarch) could take on Horus man-to-man, he was always the purported to be the strongest, wisest of the Primarchs (hence, the leader). Even moreso when he was backed by the fell-powers.
Actually, Horus said that Sanguinius was a much better fighter and strategist than he was, given that Sanguinius was said to have glimpses in the future from being tainted by chaos as a child.
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Post by: Manchu
That's right. As Horus himself said:
Sanguinius. It should have been him. He has the vision and strength to carry us to victory, and the wisdom to rule once victory is won. For all his aloof coolness, he alone has the Emperor's soul in his blood. Each of us carries part of our father within us, whether it is his hunger for battle, his psychic talent or his determination to succeed. Sanguinius holds it all. It should have been his . . .
High praise, certainly, but Horus's judgment was questionable. One wonders if he thought Sanguinius would make a better usurper than him.
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Post by: garret
Khan could take on horus.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
@Manchu & Deadwinter: When did he say that? Also, this totaly means that all votes for horus in the "Best Primarch" thread should instantly be transerred to Sanguinius...NOW!
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Post by: deadratman
I am going to say that horus and sanguinus were matched.But this thread is about who could take on the emperor not horus or sanguinus.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
@garret: Is this the Emprah in his prime? Or the emprah on terra? (surrounded by legions of custodes and forts and fleets and such)
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Post by: metallifan
Emperors Faithful wrote:@garret: Is this the Emprah in his prime? Or the emprah on terra? (surrounded by legions of custodes and forts and fleets and such)
Duffman could. In either state of existence.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Duffman (and his counterparts) would be get molested by the Emprah...In either state of existence.
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Post by: metallifan
Emperors Faithful wrote:Duffman (and his counterparts) would be get molested by the Emprah...In either state of existence.
Not if he got the Emperor totally wasted 
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Duffman would get wasted too!
Wasted Emprah beats your wasted Duffman!
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Post by: metallifan
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Post by: deadratman
MMMM...TACOS!!!!!
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Got tired of it waiting to load.
...Wait!...(watching)...lol! WTF!
(P.S. Emprah wasn't wasted, but still funny though)
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Post by: metallifan
I love when they charge the counter and the one marine dives for the bag of Tacos... So unnecessary and overdone... Yet so epic and full of winnage
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Definite winnage.
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Post by: deadratman
YAY TACOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
TACOS FOR THE TACO GOD!!! lawl.
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Post by: metallifan
Emperors Faithful wrote:TACOS FOR THE TACO GOD!!! lawl.
BURRITOS FOR THE BURRITO THRONE!
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Post by: The Angry Commissar
im pretty sure the only thing that could defeat the Emperor are the dice gods. He failed his difficult terrain test and slipped on Horus' blood when he tried to step over his smoking corpse.
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Post by: metallifan
^ And convieniently fell on his Lightning claws
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Post by: Dreadwinter
I forget exactly where Horus said it, but he said it.
Sanguinius wouldn't have made such bold moves like Horus did. Instead his Great Crusade would have been a slow and steady creep across the galaxy, slowly dominating everybody and everything in his path and keeping his brothers reigned in.
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Post by: deadratman
@deradwinter. I think horus said this in the healing huts of Darwin or Davin or whatever.
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Post by: The Angry Commissar
horus smells like poop
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Post by: crazycommissar
The Angry Commissar wrote:horus smells like poop
Heh, you can't argue with that!
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Post by: Redwunz
The emperor isn't dead or in a coma. He's just really tired. What with all the conquering the universe, creating nearly divine offspring and an entire race of superbeings, killing his favorite son, and planning what to make for dinner. He just needed a bit of a nap.
He'll be up and around in no time
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Post by: Exarch_Nektel
The Angry Commissar wrote:horus smells like poop
how do you know
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Post by: Manchu
Exarch_Nektel wrote:The Angry Commissar wrote:horus smells like poop
how do you know
Must waft right off the pages, I suppose.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Manchu wrote:Exarch_Nektel wrote:The Angry Commissar wrote:horus smells like poop
how do you know
Must waft right off the pages, I suppose.
Then where the hell are you sticking the BOOK?!?
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Post by: deadratman
I think we both know where they stuck th book!
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Post by: aflax1
Anyone could if they could get to his throne room alive have you saw him on the first page he looks as though he hasn't ate anything in a million years.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
But who could scale the walls, and get past the legions of custodes and whatnot. (Not to mention a whole sector fleet above 1 planet)
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Post by: 40kplayer
Comisar Yarric! he my little necron! all he got to do is break off his head!
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Post by: Exarch_Nektel
40kplayer wrote:Comisar Yarric! he my little necron! all he got to do is break off his head!
What?
Make sense.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
I think in english it was to the effect of:
"Commissar is awesome. He almost always comes back, kind of like a necron, when he dies. *Last part is intelligible*
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Post by: Asherian Command
NO ONE CAN DEFEAT HIM!
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Post by: SlaveToDorkness
I'm sure it's been mentioned before..
SLY MARBO!
Or a 4-year old who can pull a plug.
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Post by: Asherian Command
lol still no one could. MAY BE HORUS COULD BE OWNED by anyone with a gun!
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Post by: Kragura
If he was at full strength ie not a corpse anymore than i dont think theres many that could because
C'tan gets beat by
Khain gets beat by
The rest of the eldar gods gets beat by
Slaneesh gets beat by
The rest of the chaos gods gets beat by
The emprah
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Post by: Crimson4Lyfe
Hmmm... i'd say ahriman or karn would lose but i think The night bringer or a phoenix lord might have a chance
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Kragura wrote:
C'tan gets beat by
Khain gets beat by
The rest of the eldar gods gets beat by
Slaneesh gets beat by
The rest of the chaos gods gets beat by
The emprah
... QFT... FTW.
Ladies and Gentlemen. We have it. The meaning of life! No MORTAL could express it so beautifully...  *sniffle* so...beautiful...
You...are...GOD!!!
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Post by: Index85
I would think that an Ork Warbaoss who was Powerful enough to unite the Orks in a Galaxy wide WAAAGH! would probably be able to take on the emperor when he was still alive, as he would be the technically be the emperor of the orks.
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Post by: Kragura
Emperors Faithful wrote: You...are...GOD!!!
Finally someone who realises it
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Geez, modest and humble to boot as well. lol
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Post by: sniperjolly
OK, so the emprah presonally kicked the snot out of
1) the void dragon
2) an orbital ork
3) all the chaos gods in the strongest way they could possibly ever manifest themselves on the material plane.
So, with other super beings I belive it is safe to assume that the only way to beat the emprah would be for...
Gandalf the grey, Gandalf the White, Monty Python and the holy grail's Black Knight, benito mussolini and the blue meanie and cowboy curtis and jambi the genie
Robocop, the Terminator, Captian Kirk and Darth Vader, Lo Pan, Superman and every single Power Ranger
Bill S. Preston and Theodore Logan, Spock, the Rock, Doc Ock and Hulk Hogan to band together... Bruce Lee could be subsituded with any three of these
Oh, and IMHO the best way to kill a C'tan is to throw a Vortex Grenade at it. Gets sucked into the warp and is promptly eaten by the chaos gods
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Post by: KommanderKurtikai
Aftersong wrote:One of the C'tan would probably tear him a new one
after he beat up the most badass C'tan, the void dragon? i doubt any of the current ones could take him
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Which one is the Void Dragon?
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Post by: Corpsesarefun
sniperjolly wrote:
Gandalf the grey, Gandalf the White, Monty Python and the holy grail's Black Knight, benito mussolini and the blue meanie and cowboy curtis and jambi the genie
Robocop, the Terminator, Captian Kirk and Darth Vader, Lo Pan, Superman and every single Power Ranger
Bill S. Preston and Theodore Logan, Spock, the Rock, Doc Ock and Hulk Hogan
Only if all came out of nowhere lightning fast and kicked the emperor and his golden ass
it would be the bloodiest battle that the galaxy ever saw... with SM looking on in total awe
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
But would end with ALL involved (except mabye Emprah) being fist-@*£%ed by the Angry Marines.
Always Angry.
All the Time.
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Post by: Kragura
Emperors Faithful wrote:But would end with ALL involved (except mabye Emprah) being fist-@*£%ed by the Angry Marines.
Do their drednaughts take part in said fist-#%&@ing cause that might be a little bloody
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
...I luagh (lol), but feel so...wierd...as if I'm actually condoning it...*hurl..then lol again*
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Post by: Voronesh
The Nightbringer could do it.
Eat up the sun.
Make it go Supernova.
Boom. Custodes and Imperial Fleet above Terra turn into Plasma.
Plus Vortex grenades do not kill the C'Tan, just his super technological skin.
C'Tan goes to the next sun, feeds a little bit off it, and takes on a new necrodermis.
The C'Tan split off the warp from the actualy plane, to hurt the Old Ones, so basically every single psionic ability anyone has works on the necrodermis at the max, and the C'Tan just starts feeding on something else.
The Nightbringer was able to hold off a squad of Smurfs at his weakest, at his best he can du a number on the Imerial Fleet for sure.
Since 700 Space Marines can destroy a World engine with tens of thousand Necs trying to stop em, according to our newest and most lovely SM Codex, the Nightbringer could take out about.....as much by himself. And thats without going shopping for a new Necrodermis.
YAY Thanks for giving us totally off numbers new codex!!!
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Post by: Corpsesarefun
Voronesh wrote:The Nightbringer could do it.
Eat up the sun.
Make it go Supernova.
Boom. Custodes and Imperial Fleet above Terra turn into Plasma.
Plus Vortex grenades do not kill the C'Tan, just his super technological skin.
C'Tan goes to the next sun, feeds a little bit off it, and takes on a new necrodermis.
The C'Tan split off the warp from the actualy plane, to hurt the Old Ones, so basically every single psionic ability anyone has works on the necrodermis at the max, and the C'Tan just starts feeding on something else.
The Nightbringer was able to hold off a squad of Smurfs at his weakest, at his best he can du a number on the Imerial Fleet for sure.
Since 700 Space Marines can destroy a World engine with tens of thousand Necs trying to stop em, according to our newest and most lovely SM Codex, the Nightbringer could take out about.....as much by himself. And thats without going shopping for a new Necrodermis.
YAY Thanks for giving us totally off numbers new codex!!!
WOW :O
the nightbringer can hold off 7 companies of marines!?!?
terra has more than 7 CHAPTERS of marines on guard
BTW im interested by your nightbringer eats the sun and it goes supernova theory, how does this work?
if the nightbringer consumes all the energy and matter of the sun where does the energy for the supernova come from?
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Also, the Emprah would boad his personal ship, crash into the nightbringer, and personally FIST-F£@$ him till the nightbringer BEGS for mercy. And that won't take long.
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Post by: Voronesh
Well the Nightbringer holds off a squad of Smurfs at his absolute weakest after eaons of hunger without sufficient food. Brink of death smells alot like 1-5% of total power. So if you go with that number he can smother a squad at a time.
Not if they all open up fire on him at the same time, but 10k Necs opening upon 700 Spacies should also be pure win for necs.
So Nightbringer deals a number on a chapter when not on a green field without any scenic details.
The Necs can penetrate ANY defense they wish, already proven in the fluff from Battlefleet gothic with a ship actually LANDING on Mars. breaking through to the sun, while on the other side of Terra so you do not meet up with those 7 SM chapters and ignore the largest part of the Imp Fleet is easy as pie.
The rest is a question of physics. How does the Nightbringer eat the sun? If he simply cools it down, nothings gonna happen (I think?). But if he accelerates its time flow, to make it give off more energy and eat THAT energy. BAMM!
Our sun goes Supernova at the end of its life. He just needs to accelerate the fusion reaction, feed of the additional energy, and watch how Earth gets melted by pure plasma. Mars might survive but gets battered around a lot.
Nightbringer gets to attack a weakened dragon right after having fed on a sun. WIN WIN.
And the Emperor cant board any ship. Im talking present 40k storyline.
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Post by: Corpsesarefun
Voronesh wrote:Well the Nightbringer holds off a squad of Smurfs at his absolute weakest after eaons of hunger without sufficient food. Brink of death smells alot like 1-5% of total power.
so 10 marines at 1% power, at 100% thats only one chapter
Voronesh wrote: 10k Necs opening upon 700 Spacies should also be pure win for necs.
so if 10,000 necrons fight 700 SM and loose it means necrons are better 
Voronesh wrote:The Necs can penetrate ANY defense they wish, already proven in the fluff from Battlefleet gothic with a ship actually LANDING on Mars. breaking through to the sun, while on the other side of Terra so you do not meet up with those 7 SM chapters and ignore the largest part of the Imp Fleet is easy as pie.
actually the ship isnt believed to have LANDED on mars from someewhere else, rather it was some necrons FROM mars merely moving from one part of mars to the next.
The 7 space marine chapters are ON terra itself, so it will be hard for the nightbringer to avoid them, and the imperial fleet is on guard all around the solar system (concentrated around terra in a blanket of defences).
Voronesh wrote:The rest is a question of physics. How does the Nightbringer eat the sun? If he simply cools it down, nothings gonna happen (I think?). But if he accelerates its time flow, to make it give off more energy and eat THAT energy. BAMM!
Our sun goes Supernova at the end of its life. He just needs to accelerate the fusion reaction, feed of the additional energy, and watch how Earth gets melted by pure plasma. Mars might survive but gets battered around a lot.
Nightbringer gets to attack a weakened dragon right after having fed on a sun. WIN WIN.
And the Emperor cant board any ship. Im talking present 40k storyline.
The nightbringer feeds be absorbing the kinetic energy of matter, causing it to reach absolute zero and not react with anything. This would mean that the hydrogen atoms in the sun wouldnt move around (no energy to move) and thus would not cause nuclear fusion.
There would be no supernova or blackhole, instead the sun would just stop producing energy and break up.
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Post by: Voronesh
Yes but multiple chapthers will rarely show up at once, th imperial palace will not allow great battles to be fought thus allowing few to win against many. Thats what i meant with the stupid worldship example be GW. If corridors prove to be such a great multiplier, it just means that the Nightbringer can kill all 7 chapters within a few days of battle within the palace, and then scrap the custodes.
The Necron ship was not a single one, rather it was a few actually breaking through the whole crap blockade including the huge minefield...
I do not know what story you are refering to, but the one from battlefleet gothic actually went through every single step, and ended with the conclusion, that Mars had been successfully breached and Necs have stepped on the surface unopposed, due to them landing in some forbidden zone.
Where do you have that information from, about how the Nightbringer eats a sun? Plus its physically impossible to make something reach 0 Kelvin.
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Post by: It
corpsesarefun wrote:BTW im interested by your nightbringer eats the sun and it goes supernova theory, how does this work?
if the nightbringer consumes all the energy and matter of the sun where does the energy for the supernova come from?
Duh, the Nightbringer throws up. All the energy goes BAM, Terra fried, Everyone happy! (apart from the Imperium. But who cares about them? )
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Post by: superprism2
A ELDAR REVENANT TITAN WITH SONIC LANCES could.. or maybe A ELDAR AVATAR?http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/QUATERMASTERS_STORE_ELDAR_22.html
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Post by: Corpsesarefun
The story i was talking about was the damos incident (i believe this was its name). the 7 chapters i speak about are permenantly stationed on terra to guard the palace. Voronesh wrote:
Where do you have that information from, about how the Nightbringer eats a sun? Plus its physically impossible to make something reach 0 Kelvin.
Simple my friend  the nightbringer feeds by absorbing the "life energy" or kinetic energy of an object or creature. Zero kelvin isnt impossible, it is unobserved as of yet. Automatically Appended Next Post: superprism2 wrote: A ELDAR REVENANT TITAN WITH SONIC LANCES could.. or maybe A ELDAR AVATAR?http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/QUATERMASTERS_STORE_ELDAR_22.html
The eldar avatar was defeated by the chaptermaster of the ultramarines, the emperor would slaughter one
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
If this is about the CURRENT timeline, then in all honesty, the nightbringer is at the moment a panzy, and a badly tempered Chapter Master could take him on.
Haven't heard of any suns going missing in the present 40k universe.
If the Nightbringer is at the height of his power (which he isn't, or he is and that's really pathetic) then the Emprah must be at the height of his power. (which he currently isn't)
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Post by: Voronesh
But Life energy does not equal kinetic energy.
Life energy would normally be correlated to the soul or its empyrean energy.
Zero Kelvin means that no movement is possible, and since to reach 0 Kelvin, you need to remove energy, it kills itself, comparable to how one cannot achieve c as speed.
Unless physics has thrown around some new model, in which it works. But then i dont study physics, im just looking on.
Saying something is not impossible just unobserved can be applied to anything. Even the Emperor being killed. That would be able to be applied to the Titanic. (That time being proven to be correct)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Emperors Faithful
Uhh well the Nightbringer was never described as staying at its weak level of power. He was actually said to be back with a vengeance in the Nec Codex. Rules do not Equal Fluff. Not my fault, or relevant to the discussion, that his rules do not seem good enough.
Otherwise the Seer Council could kill the emperor from 36" away. Eldrad plus 5 Farseers, plus Mental Duel. BOOM. the Dice gods say the Emperor looses 35 wounds. Since one stat can only be a maximum of 10........
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Post by: Corpsesarefun
Voronesh wrote:But Life energy does not equal kinetic energy.
Life energy would normally be correlated to the soul or its empyrean energy.
Zero Kelvin means that no movement is possible, and since to reach 0 Kelvin, you need to remove energy, it kills itself, comparable to how one cannot achieve c as speed.
Unless physics has thrown around some new model, in which it works. But then i dont study physics, im just looking on.
Saying something is not impossible just unobserved can be applied to anything. Even the Emperor being killed. That would be able to be applied to the Titanic. (That time being proven to be correct)
The c'tan feed on physical enegry rather than soul energy, we know this for sure as the c'tan are the antithesis of the warp.
Zero kelvin is acheivable, as is C.
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Post by: Voronesh
Well saying it is achievable is one thing, proving is another....
Physical energy is not kinetic......
Thats like saying vertebrae are all humans......
So id ask you to please back it up, as my current state of knowledge does not support c being achievable.
What with Mass becoming colser to infinite the closer to c you get, and thus being not achievable is infinite energy to accelerate infinite mass is not available.
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Post by: Corpsesarefun
Voronesh wrote:Well saying it is achievable is one thing, proving is another....
Physical energy is not kinetic......
Thats like saying vertebrae are all humans......
so what do you suggest physical life energy is then if it isnt kinetic energy (the movement that causes all reactions and powers existance).
Voronesh wrote:
So id ask you to please back it up, as my current state of knowledge does not support c being achievable.
What with Mass becoming colser to infinite the closer to c you get, and thus being not achievable is infinite energy to accelerate infinite mass is not available.
Simple solution, have your powersource on board
the mass of the object increases towards infinite as does the mass of your fuel thus the power you get out of it also inceases.
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Post by: Voronesh
Ugh, mass of carbon doesn not make it a better power source. You should still only get the same energy per atom of carbon rregardless how heavy it is.
Physical energy could be alot. Gravity or Magnetics, not too likely but with funny effects.
Or Heat.
Depending on the type of force devoured by the Nightbringer it does have funny effects.
Since if the Nightbringer would devour kinetic energy, he would be invincible. Devour the kinetic energy of the bolter round lascannon shot whatever flung at you ^^.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
@Voronesh: Back with a vengence, does not necessarily mean "at the height of your power", it simply means you're on a mission now. Moreso than before.
Also, there could easily be a sort of psycic ward for the Emprah, in fact, he would likely have many similar tech as farseer (spiritstones etc), just more killy.
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Post by: LunaHound
Who can take on the Emperor?
ME!
...... because i'll never lose against him!
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Post by: Kragura
 pro emporer pro sit nostrum saviour nos vadum servo him ut is servo nos
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Hey! You changed your avatar!
It kind of siuits your sig though, lol.
Also, I have a idea, but still wondereing WTF you're saying, you crazy kiwi!
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Post by: Voronesh
Emperors Faithful wrote:@Voronesh: Back with a vengence, does not necessarily mean "at the height of your power", it simply means you're on a mission now. Moreso than before.
Also, there could easily be a sort of psycic ward for the Emprah, in fact, he would likely have many similar tech as farseer (spiritstones etc), just more killy.
Back with a vengeance does not literally mean back at full power. No that is true, but you guessed correctly what i meant. And even if he is not at his full power, Neither is the Emperor and even the Custodes are just that, super humans and no emperor. Psychic wards? Funny Spirit stones are also useless against a being that does not care for the warp. It does not attack via the warp, so any spirit ward is wasted energy. Oh and i do not want to fight over the emperor being killed by the Nightringer, but rather that it could be achieved at all. It does not happen for various reasons. Eldar need the Imperium, or other stuff would totally annihilate them (eg orks or nids) DE do not care for the Imperium, but use it as raid targets. necs do not care for the Emperor, as theyre gonna kill anything anyway. Old ones were already defeated by them, so what is a single being to them? Orks are Orks and simply too stupid to grasp the fact that massed armies are better than scattered infightings, but also they do not care whom they fight. Nids, are also trying to eat everything, and it is not fully proven what they actually are, and how many of them arrived in this galaxy? CSM? are probably the only force that want to crush the emperor for real, but are rather weak to try for a direct attack against Terra for now. GW has managed to create a universe so splintered that no actual unified front exists. And that is something nice. You can call Exterminatus on a dozen planets and let another 20 be ravaged by your interstellar supercampaign. And it would have no effect on overall storyline. Unless that were all Tau worlds ^^. Gratz to the Tau for being the smallest power of the Universe.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Oh, I was talking about how the Emprah would compare to a seer council, not the Nightbringer.
Anyway, I simply think that the Nightbringer works like the Avatar. They are both weakened, and merely manifestations of what COULD be an awesome power.
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Post by: Voronesh
Well the Seer council was only a representation of rules do not equal fluff. His Spirit stones would still fail on rolls of one. So since this is a fluff topic lets get back to that.
AFAIK the Nightbringer is quickly gaining his power back, whereas the Eldar Avatar is on a downward spiral. Avatar is a splinter of Khaine, so basically it has to be weak. Nightbringer is a weakened state of a god. Gaining in power.
Another way to kill the Emperor for the Necs: Finish their huge project of shuttingof the Empyrean from the physical realm altogether. Any race using the Warp for STL travel is suddenly stuck on a million planets that need to fend for themselves.
How the Chaos Gods kill the Emperor (cant do it though), create a Warpstorm around Terra no more souls for him to eat. and he turns to dust.
Sure Terra has some method of calming the warp around it, btu the Chaos gods only need to erect the Storm just outside that barrier. And bring in all the CSM legions with Titans and whatnot right before the storm goes up.
Planet Killer around Terra.......7 Chapters of Space Marines cant do crap.
Problem with that plan? No Warp storm generator for free.
^^
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Post by: Asherian Command
yeah but your forgeting alot of things your talking about killing the emperor. He is returning you know that right? if you kill him he will be reborn right then and there. So even if the necorns get there they would be owned by the 30,000 SHIPS SURRONDING TERRA! read the horus hersey books. Luna has the most powerful anti-ship weaponry in the gaxaly! AND A BLACK STONE FORTRESS!
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Also, you're forgetting that Terra alone AS A PLANET has a whole SECTOR fleet dedicated to it's defense. More than enough to hold out until reinforcements arrive.
And don't forgett that the Chaos gods are battling the Emprah in the Empryean or whatever (supposedly) . So the Emprah is currently STOPPING that warp storm stuff from happening.
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Post by: Madgod
The emperor's tough and all but there's NO WAY he could beat the chaos gods. Hell, hes probly half the reason theyre so strong.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
...he did. They poured their strongest manifestation into horus and LOST.
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Post by: Avariel
Darth Vader
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
no...
Darth Vader would get BALL-FORCE-CHOKED by the Emprah!
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Post by: Madgod
Emperors Faithful wrote:...he did. They poured their strongest manifestation into horus and LOST.
Yeah well, lets see the Emperor go into the warp, fight Khorne (and his mountain of skulls) or Tzeentch (Father of magic/psykers) and come off on top. Not likely imho.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
If fluff speaks true that's exactly what he's doing at the mo in his subconcious state. Plugging the hole between Reality and Chaos. So that only the minor incursions get in. That's not to say he's come out on top...yet, but he still fighting strong.
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