Ok so i managed to get hold of some thin plasticard and began work on the armor (shoulders mainly)

So i tested on this figure on the left and right shoulder with different methods
so i here are the results





Ok so my initial thoughts are the panels may be too think but the left pauldron seems to give a better result.


What do you guys think?

Cheers
Wolf

*edit*i tried to get better pictures for you

It's to blurry to make a judgment.

Yea they do look a little thick. You CAN see what your going for tho. I also was thinking the left looked better, before you said the same thing lol.

Maybe a lower angle, or better yet, multiple angles may help. Cool idea but from this image they do seem thick.

I think that looks good, though plenty of room for improvement, though this will come with practice I feel. I think that those shoulder alterations, the Romanesque groin hangings and the crested helmets should give the impression you are looking for, Especially as many space marine parts look like they can be adapted (Power weapons into a Gladius anyone?)

I agree, i am currently working on a second model trying to refine the technique for applying the shoulders, woprking on the crest and 'groin hangings' hur hur hur will come later.

For the crests i was thinking of using the top of the dire avenger helmets, as they seem to have a desirable shape to them




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok so i come back with my second prototype, it has a few rough edges where measurements need changing slightly but this is the general end product.









This is a comparison with my last attempt, the strips of plasticard are thinner by 2mm

I don't know as you may be using them for support but what if you removed the SM shoulder pads before adding the paldrons? This may lower them somewhat and make them less bulky. Personally I love the idea and can't wait to see how they look painted up.

Hey! There you go! I rather like them! The new ones are not too thick at all in my opinion.

Ok so my first prototype is now finished !

I added 2 items which i think makes it look a whole lot better so here it is !





All the parts on the shoulders will be corrected when i build my next prototype, my next step is to paint.

what you think?

Cheers
Wolf

Space Wolf and Ultramarine backpacks would look great on these guys, as the Wolf and Eagle play major parts in Roman iconography and myth.

Also, you should put the gladius on their hip as per normal and hook their tower shields across their backs instead. I'd rather be practical have my sword at my hip, ready to go, rather than having to reach over my shoulder for it. You may have a scheme picked out as it is, but in case you don't, might I suggest the following? A sort of dried blood color (maybe mixing blood and scab red?) for the limbs/groin, a Dark Bronze for the heads, and then either a darker sort of iron or a chainmail with black ink wash for the chest and shoulders. As well, you should give your Sergeants or at least your standard bearer a nice big Wolfskin cloak. Changing out the SM arms for some Catachan ones would also look good and give them more of a Romanesque feel, what with the shortsleeve tunics and all.

Overall though, great conversions. I'd recommend looking at some pictures of the different styles of Cohorts throughout the timeline of the Empire.

I most certainly will cheres for that ! The sword was just there from a previous model

And I would definalty put it on their hip. Are you suggesting each soldier should have a shield strapped to their backs ? or just those that will be using them ?

And funilly enough I was looking into a very similar colour scheme as to the one you suggested, and each squad will have a standard and centurian as did the Romans per unit. But the standard will not count as anything. And I already have plans for standard bearers and their wolf pelts .

Cheers for the assit Metallifan

You should give shields to all units - Towers to your Marines and Auxilia shields to your Scouts. From what I remember, when the Romans marched between battles, they wore harnesses over their armour which they strapped all their supplies to (Cold weather furs, rations, flint and tinder, etc...) and them placed their shields over top of their supplies to protect them from the elements, and to free up their hands if they had to stop to gather supplies, build camp, or unbuckle their harnesses in the face of an attack. You should give your models all shields just to keep to this, though obviously only your Close Combat squads would be bearing theirs.

If you put together any veteran squads for these guys, don't forget to totally overhaul them with the whole Legionary First Cohort feel. Lots of Golden Eagles and Wreaths for them.

I most certainly will cheers for that, ill model upa mock shield to test.
i'll update shortly

Here's a good shot of the classic Pre-Christian Tower Shield. Y'should be able to Imperium-itize it
http://www.spanglefish.com/legionxxxiii/pictures/big/wintamarch2.JPG

A shot of the Torso/Shoulder Armour colour I was describing. Chainmail with black and blue ink washes would probably work best.
http://legionarybooks.net/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Legionaries3.25583035_std.jpg

And a set of standard Legionary "Banded" Armour. Alternatively, you could do the chest plates in the "Molded form" like the Praetorians of late.
http://www.legionxiiii.com/images/roman-legion-armor.gif

A Gladius. Personally I think your CC squads should be armed with power variants.
http://wiki.rpg.net/images/b/bc/Gladius.jpg

Anyway, hope these help ya some.

They look spot on to me.

these guys are going to look cool I think. Unique, but still very spacemarine style.

Ok so just a small update, i quickly built up a shield and
blutacked it to the back of my marine, I am unsure of the results so what do you think ?







I think the shieled turned out well,

It needs more of a curve if you look at the real ones it curves with the body and there should be banding on the edges.

I agree, I did try with that shield but the plasticard I am using is increadibly hard to bendi am trying out another shield and trying to bend it as much as I can.

Use a hair dryer get it warm but not hot use oven mitts if you have somthing with a curve that will help as well.

I agree that it does need a curve to it. Nothing a hot-air gun won't do. The banding is often painted on, but raised lightning bolts or something would look neat. You should also maybe trim it down a bit thinner. Not a lot, but just shave a little bit more off of the edges. Otherwise, it looks really good. If you're finding it sticks out too far, you can always sand/file down the backpacks a bit too. Seeing how they'll have shields covering them, it's not like anyone will really tell the difference.

I was planning on my next prototype i will try shaving down the backpack to get the shield to 'protrude' less

With the Idea of them having their shield over their backs while they march, I think some stowage would look good on or hanging from the backpack, along with some straps around the whole thing. Mainly to make it look like he doesn't have easy access to the whole thing.

On another note, I had a look a the codex today while planning my own command squad and saw another opportunity, the command squad can all have Storm shields which will help the whole thing, something I had never realized before.

Wolf wrote:
I am unsure of the results so what do you think ?

The shield itself looks good, but I don't like the look of it tied to the backpack - it seems far too cumbersome for a marine to bother to carry. However, maybe you could hang them on the hulls of their vehicles (plus you could count it as extra armour if you want ) It would also solve confusion that the only models that actually carry shields are the ones with storm shields.

Neato work. Are these some how related to Praetorian Imperial Guard that I keep hearing about? Or are you just using the word Praetorian?

djphranq wrote:Neato work. Are these some how related to Praetorian Imperial Guard that I keep hearing about? Or are you just using the word Praetorian?

The Praetorian Guard were elite Roman troops under (latterly) the direct command of the Emperor, hence the roman-esque styling of his marines. The IG regiment was an (initially) special-edition regiment that were inspired by colonial-era British soldiers (pith helmets and all) though iirc they were later put to general release for a while. So not really related apart from the name.

unistoo wrote:

djphranq wrote:Neato work. Are these some how related to Praetorian Imperial Guard that I keep hearing about? Or are you just using the word Praetorian?

The Praetorian Guard were elite Roman troops under (latterly) the direct command of the Emperor, hence the roman-esque styling of his marines. The IG regiment was an (initially) special-edition regiment that were inspired by colonial-era British soldiers (pith helmets and all) though iirc they were later put to general release for a while. So not really related apart from the name.

I figured as much. Looks good just the same.

I really like the pauldrons and head ruff, however I'm not a fan of the shield - I think it just looks ungainly on the back.

Making some termies or assault marines with it as a storm shield I think would be kick a$$, but I don't like it on the back.

An army of these guys would look really effective!

Alrighty cheers, I like the idea of strapping the shields to vehicles and stuff,that would look really good.

Cheers for the input chaps

more spartans (sigh)

Romans actually

Anyway, I thought I would pop in and say I too like the idea of the shields on the vehicles, rhinos and the like, which would give them the whole Roman "Tortoise" feel, almost making the rhino their equivilent of this:

I think they look pretty cool. Great way to make your army unique.

PS I hate your avatar Mr. Bean

more spartans (sigh)

Study your history, please. (sigh)

Shields on the vehicles would be neat, but I think it would be better just to pin the CC models' shield arms so that they can be formed into a Testeudo formation. A few shields hanging from the vehicles would give that kind of "Army on the march" feel though.

metallifan wrote: so that they can be formed into a Testeudo formation.

While it might look cool, when it comes to it, the Testudo doesn't really fit the CC SM style of warfare, the Testudo was slow, unwieldy and terrible for close combat (grab a whole bunch of your mates, jam yourselves together, allowing about 60cm per person [about the width of the shield], and see how fast you can run around, let alone swing a sword! ). What it was good at was for getting close enough to the enemy in order to attack, or shield them from missile fire while they waited to receive an attack. Just stick with making your Storm/Combat shield-equipped troopers look like they're using their shields in close combat.

Yea... It's not that it doesn't fit - It would be great to deflect small arms fire - It's just that when you're wearing power armour... What'd be the point? Might fit a more primitive tech-tier Guard Army, but SMurfs don't really have need of it. Though it would still at least LOOK cool to see a squad of SMurfs making a Testeudo.

Firstly, get rid of the junk on their backs, looks silly for a Space Marine. If you're going to be one plate short on the shoulders, trim off the edging of the shoulder pads so it looks like the sheet styrene after you paint it.

If you're going to make all four plates, I would like to see how it looks if you removed the pad on one shoulder (say, right shoulder) and use a normal pad on the other (left shoulder) with no Praetorian plates.

The Swords on their packs aren't permanent Skinna. He said that's just old and he'll be moving them onto the hip. Only thing he plans on having rest on the backs (At least from what I know ) are their shields, like the Legionaries used to do when marching.

I believe he's going to be doing the horizontal banding across the chest too, not sure. If he does though I think keeping the shoulders as they are might look better, but we'll have to see when he posts his next update. Riiight Wolf? *Hint* *Hint*

Yeah, get rid of the junk on their backs (shields too!). And although banding the chest sounds interesting, I would say keep it at the abdomen (where the breast plate stops and below) rather then the whole torso. Do much more and you may as well build your own model from scratch and it wouldn't look much like a Space Marine, or at least not a loyalist. That is just this humble servant of the Emperor's opinion.

If you've seen the shots of the truescale Phalanx/Spartan Marines that are (Or were, not sure if they're still going) up for bid on Dakka, I believe Wolf is going for something like that. I think the shields on the back look good, especially since, again, historically the Legionaires all carried their own shields as such. It'll look better when he's actually got a final version posted. The shield still needs to be trimmed, bent, refitted once the pack is shaved a bit, and then painted. So I think we should wait to see how the final product looks on a test marine before any final judgements. Once he gets some CC units with gladius and shield equipped, I bet the towers will fit a lot better, but again we'll just have to wait and see (And bug Wolf to do it faster! )

Long as you're for the Empruh, we're happy and won't have to call the Inquisition

I agree, I think the shields can look good on the back. Try and take the backpack completely off, and then attack the shields. I think the only thing really hindering the look is the fact that they are sticking WAY out from their backs

I don't think the backpack should come completely off, as I guarantee someone's going to notice and say something Let's see what a shave does for it, and maybe convert a compact version of the SM backpack. Removing it would probably work if he can bend the shields but if it's crummy plasticard and it just cracks when heated then I think shaving down the pack would be the next best step.

Haha, wow that was alot of talking while I have been away !

Anyway, on my next prototype I wil attempt to do the horizontal armor plates aswell, its just very small and fidly

I will attempt heating the shields tomorrow, when I get some time, and remove the back pack completely.

I may even go as far as adding a cloak as iirc soldiers had capes, and would complete the model a little more. Istill have to paint my first prototype to try and home in on a nice colour scheme.

And good news ! My first tactical squad has arrived, maybe i should move this to the blog section lol.

Cheers
Wolf

Try Greenstuffing the bands. Just smooth the chest surface and then cut a thin, thin layer of greenstuff into strips after forming it over their armour.

Late Praetorians and those assigned to stand guard during Senate Hearings had waist-length capes, yea. Your standard Legionairre didn't, though they did carry wolf pelt cloaks with their supplies for cold weather. During battle capes were often reserved for officers as a sign of status or rank.

Hrm it was just as I was building up the image in my head I could see that the back of the model may look a tadge out of place if you follow me.

So the cape was a way to balance it outm, I'll have to try the greenstuff, I'm not the most handy man at it I must say.

Try Whatwhat's GS Tutorial. Seems to be REALLY easy if you go it his way

Well I have finally made the decision to dive head first into the tactical squad, and I thought I'd begin work on the Centurian/Seargent.

But i am unsure what to equip him with, shall i give him a shield strapped to his back, or make him ield his shield ?

I say give him a sword, hand-held squad standard, and necessary Wolf Pelt!

Tuck a bolt pistol onto his his belt so he still gets a gun, but without ruining his good Roman appearance

Ok so update time the seargent is on his way to completion and i also have a small experiment to seehow the shield would look on the back, without the backpack.

and here are the result !





Apologies for not being able to see his body (its just a normal sm torso, the banding was a horrific disaster !)







Thats it so far folks, I kep the seargent his pistol and chainsword for now just to see the result, and i quite like them.

If your shield was wider it would help with the bending. What you need is a piece of smooth metal tubing 1" across and a hair dryer warm up the tubing, then put on the plastic, then warm up the plastic till it bends smoothly.

Agreed. Once you bend it, the shield will look right fething awesome!

Now that I see it, I agree that it looks better without the backpack under there. Really awesome conversions. Can't wait to see a core force of these Marines finished.

Wo-olf... Updates. Giddy Meow. Or somebody gets hurt.

Seriously though, how're the Spehss Mehreens coming?

hahaha sorry for the long pauses between updates atm, college work has been a bit of a pain in the arse, updates will be coming tomorrow ! i promise !

I could have sworn I've posted here already. These guys look awesome. I can;t wait to see them finished!

Nice work, the shoulders, very "pre-heresy"

Looks Nice

Ok fiunally sorry about the wait chaps.

Update time







Seargent melta and marine, just going to get all the basics of each model done, the shoulders and the crest things, then move onto the roman flappy things, my brain isnt working well today

So what do we think ?

I like these ones, much better without the shields. Good work!

Ok so today I took a break from sticking my self to normal marines, and decided I'd stick my self to my Cato sicarius model instead


So this is what i have so far.




I plan to extend the cloak over the shoulders and make it slightly longer, which should make it look alot better.

I'm just getting giddy at the thought of seeing one of these guys painted

Update time children !
I began work on painting them, but to be quite frank, i hate the scheme at the moment.



What do you think ?

To be quite honest I'm having difficulty coming up wit ha good idea for a scheme.

You might be interested in these helmets by maxmini: http://www.maxmini.eu/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=53

oooh, theymay be very useful for the scouts !
thanks !

Woooo! That's one sexy looking SMurf! As to why you don't like it, it may be the ammount of red and the lightness of it maybe? Try maybe darkening everything a few shades. putting some watered down blue or black ink to the metallics may help too. As well, you could try a dark (almost brown) Bronze color for the armour - Praetorians, unlike Legionaries, had formed plate armour rather than banding. Their armour was coated in a dull, dark bronze as well, which was largely more protective than the Legionaries' banded armour.

Hurm i could do that. I will give that a try cheers metallifan !

the sheild if a little much and i dont think you need the veticle crest since most marines have a little one but the side one is cool exsept on the techy face dude (Marnius is spining in his grave right now)

Oh, also, for things like the leather strips hanging from their belts, try painting them as a weathered brown leather. See if you can get some SW Wolf Pelt backpacks too for your Centurions. Would save you a lot of GS work


Basically more earthy and/or metallic Browns would do good to help break up the red and metallics

The models looked decent to start but when the roman theme took over and a painted miniature showed up, I gotta say it looks really cool. I'd really like to see when they're all painted.

Cheers, Im cureently refiing the scheme at the moment, to get something better l;oooking and it is looking alot better now, expect an update soon

If you really want it to be more ancient looking make shure you use the one peice legs not the ones with the knee pad

Looks pretty good mate. I think you have got a pretty good technique down from the looks of it.

Unfortuinatly, the update will be longer than expected, I'm currently away and will not be able to put anything up until the sunday.

However I have changed he colour of the army to a gold like colour and similar to the silver shown in the previous pic. Which dulls the red slightly and looks alot better !

Ahh mannn but wanted to see the cooool looking legionary marines : (

Wolf wrote:Update time children !
I began work on painting them, but to be quite frank, i hate the scheme at the moment.



What do you think ?

To be quite honest I'm having difficulty coming up wit ha good idea for a scheme.

I think it is fine just need to do a second coat on everything then do some highlighting on the armor and wash the metal and highlight with chainmail. You should throw some other colors into it, like blues and purples. The last idea is just a suggestion but I would definitely do the first.

Cheers for the tips, sorry for the lack of updates, I taken ill at the moment so updates will be few and far between.

Drink the blood of an unborn child then and get back on painting! I didn't say you could quit yet!

Really though, hope you feel better soon mate

EDIT: Also, just noticed the metallic armour on the thighs - you could make the thighs red to emulate the bottom of the tunic, that would also look good. I'll see if I can also find some shots of some of the bronze artwork that was featured on the armour of the more prominent Praetorians, in case you're feeling like giving some freehanding a go once you're in the pink again. Would be a nice touch for Centurions and any HQ choices you take.

I agree, i have been thinking of fancy things i could do, with my ill mind (i cant be that ill atm, i just had a full day of paintballing. Ahem...

But since then the flu is kicking back like a child having a tantrum so...

Anywho tomorrow i will start looking into fancyness while i ache away infront of the screan, and post up some links and so on

Cheers
Wolf

Here y'are mate, these are from a video game, but they give some good examples of bronze detailing on some of the heavier Praetorian armours

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/7447/praetoriancompletesmallbh7.jpg

http://rtw.heavengames.com/rtw/info/units/urban.jpg


And some shots of a few different Praetorian Helmet styles (For coloration - perhaps discerning which marines are from which company?)

A Centurion's helm
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/5/1/2/5/0/webimg/136685214_tp.jpg

Brass Formal Helmet (Soldiers assigned to guard the Senate, Temples, and other important locations)
http://www.niximperial.com/npics/2101.jpg

A more conventional Bronze helmet (Highly polished)
http://www.niximperial.com/npics/2119.jpg

And another Brass helmet.
http://www.kultofathena.com/images/AH6210.jpg

These should give you some ideas as to some Romanesque style freehands and GS details if you ever feel like trying your hand at any of it.

Ahh very nice, Idoinfact have my own roman helmet, I think I have a pic lying around somewhere...

Yep I found it and here it is, next to my Corinthian style helm aswell!

How's she comin' Wolf?

Well good news I am alot better now, and will beginning work on painting tomorrow, along side my Kroot shama nad two valkyries, if they arrive. I'll post some updates tomorrow for you

Good news an update at last !!! Huzzaaah... ahem.

So i've changed the colour of the armor, and added some more red, it's still very basic, highlights and so on ar still left, but what do you think ?

I loving the darker red. Has a sort of "dried blood" hue to it. And let's face it, blood was a big part of the Roman culture

The Darker metal also looks really great. What wash(es) did you use?

All in all, once you finish the basecoating and details, I think this is going to be one stunning looking mini. I still think the chest should be metallic. Perhaps adding some gold or really light metallic detailing would help break that up a bit seeing how chest banding didn't work :( Maybe remove the metallics on the facial tubing?

Anyway, post another shot before you start detailing and we can think of some stuff to toss on for details.

Believe it or not, the metal is just drybrushed boltgun metal, then a drybrush of shining gold. makes a nice tarnished gold effect. Once I have neatened it all up I will psot some pics up for you.

Hey man. That's a nice colour scheme

Here's a suggestion for painting them :

Red: Red Gore--> 50/50 RG BR---> Blood red highlights.

Gold Tin bitz---> Shining Gold----> Very light chainmail drybrush.

I can't help but think that the helmets need to have some sort of white detailing..

Anyways, hope this helps.

Cheers,

Jack.

White detailing sounds nice actually, I will definatly look into that, Especially for my Cato Sicarius model (custom built).

Would look really nice, we kinda looking at flowy lines and vines and so on ?

Yea, that's precisely what I was thinking- vines and lines

I'm gonna drop you a PM about fluff now

Cheers,

Jack.

Try P3's Brass Balls (I did not name it) on the chest eagle.

Damnit this thread is like crack! Updates! GAAAH! *gouges eyes while lying on his side and spinning around on the floor*

Ha I'm sorry mate, everything has come to a stand still, you have Battlestar Galagtica and the ravenstar models i purchased, and my puppy to blame for that

I will update some time tomorrow, hopefully, I wish to finish my Shaman Stoohkaa first before I continue with my SM.

Post yer Shaman here so we can all drool at his fat awesomeness

lol ok, I'll post him up later tonight with some updates I've decided to finish the squad as best I can in the next few days, before I go away for two weeks.

Just as long as we don't see any Bald and Screaming Marines

Those are some fine looking models, Wolf! I really like them. Have you thought of using a good, rich purple on command squads and the like?

I am back with updates Children !

So i finished up the Seargent for you all Unfortuinatly the light has kind of drained the blending on the reds.







And as promised the shaman,





There we are for this evening enjoy metalfin since you seem to be the only one that likes it

"Like" it? No mate, I freaking love that marine. The color scheme is working great! I really hope you pop out a Company Champion with a Tower Shield and Gladius instead of the standard Combat Shield and Sphezz Mehreen Power Sword

And for a fat bird bird with man-boobs, that Kroot Shaman looks very pretty indeed!

That Marine is stupendous. It's not over-the-top yet it's not subtle. It just works very well and an army in this sort of theme would be a treat to see.

Awesome idea and execution.

If I started Marines it'd be pretty hard for me not to steal this idea.

Where'sa updates? :(

Sorry mate, Project has again taken a a break as I am currently working on finally finishing my guard off, when the battleforce is built the SM's will be getting a little TLC

Guard!? You never said anything about the awesome sexy conversion-ness of Guard! Pix! Pix or it's a lie!!11!1!!!!1!one!

LoL I'll start a seperate post, when I actually get me heads

and please add a link here.

AWSOME MUST HAVE TUTORIAL

Haha, Unfortuinatly this project is dead, but I am sure I have a model lying around somewhere, I post the pic and describe what I did.


Cheers
Wolf

Wow.. i love the idea... and the paint scheme.. i am part of the S.C.A and my armor i fight in is a roman lorica segmenta and i love the look of that marine.. great scheme and awesome job

Nice odly enough i have started a guard army fallowing a similar principle but i dought i will get in to much conversion liek keep on truckin though ftw

They look pretty cool
Way better than the normal bulky shoulders of the marines. Slann is nice as well.

Love the idea and absolutly loving the shoulder pads. But please as a request make a this is sparta company captin.

25 days ago, he clearly said that this is a dead project. Might be worth noting.