Hi folks,
I was playing with some ideas for the new eldar codex. So here are some of my suggestions, feel free to add anything you want to see happening!

Army wide:
- Star cannon: S6 AP2 Assault 3 (again)
- Bright lance decreased by 10 points (for every unit)
- Vectored engines decreased by 5 points (for every unit)
- power weapon generally reduced to 5 points
- holo field works like venerability, so ask to reroll, not two dices, pick lowest
- holo fields decreased by 15 points for all units


On a side note, I would suggest the following modelwise:
- plastic Wraithguard
- plastic autarch
- plastic Warp Spiders
- plastic Swooping hawks
- new plastic Jetbikes
- plastic combination kit for Falcon/Prism (updating the falcon slightly a la russ kit)
- Add-on sprue for big guns for the Wraithlord. Could be combined with a redo of the support weapon platforms.

HQ

Autarch:

- Increasing Initiative from 6 to 7
- Option for Shimmershield (5++ save in cc for his squad)
- Once per game, you can ask to reroll the die if the game ends.
- 10 point decrease
- Option for Ranger long rifle. 10 points
- Options for fast shot, crack shot, tank hunter, withdraw, defend, acrobatic, shadowstrike, stealth, intercept or skyleap for 10 points each (not transferred to squad)


Farseer

- Rune armor gives the farseer a 3++ save
- Jetbike increased by 10 points
- Spirit stones decreased by 10 points
- Mind war: After the victim lost a wound, you can roll again. Proceed until the victim wins the roll off , or is dead.
- Eldrich storm is now S4 Ap5 Barrage 2 large blast weapon, vehicles hit suffer a glancing hit.
- New psychic power: Target vehicle or unit in 12", unit or vehicle is thrown back 2d6 inch in a straight line from the seer. Vehicles get a glancing hit, units go to ground, resolve ramming and tank shocks for units in the way for the vehicle (I hope I made it somewhat clear)

Warlocks

- increase jetbike cost by 5 points
- increasing ld to 9
- Embolden works like Stubborn
- Conceal work like Stealth and is reduced by 5 points

Avatar

- increased by 15 points
- T increased to 7

Elite

Striking scorpions

- increasing points by 2
- Increase attacks to 2
- increase exarchs attacks to 3
- exarch can have the stealth power for his squad. 15 Points

Fire dragons

- Crack shot up to 30 points but the whole squad gains it

Wraithguard

- increase W to 2
- a unit of 5 wraithguard led by a spiritseer can be taken as a troop choice
- Spiritseer + 30 Points

Banshees

- increasing points by 2
- increase Attacks to 2
- increase exarchs attacks to 3
- Warshout increased to 15 points but always works
- Arobatic increased to 10 points

Harlequin troupe

- decreased by 2 points
- Veil counts as normal nighfight
- If unit is 10 strong, one member can be upgraded to a troupe leader for 15 points
- one Harlequin can be upgraded to a shadowseer for +15 points (halfed)
- Units losing models against shots by the shrieker cannon fall back automatically

Wave serpent

- decreased points by 15
- decreased star cannons by 5
- decreased scatter laser by 5

Troops

Dire Avengers

- The squad can be fitted with plasma grenades for 1 point per model
- The exarch can be fitted with a shimmershield for 10 points
- the exarch can be fitted with a diresword for 8 points
- the exarch can be fitted with a executioner for 10 points (2handed, +2 S power weapon)
- the exarch has the "true grit" special rule (streamlined: his catapult counts as a pistol)

Rangers

- decrease basic ranger by 4 points
- the long rifle doesn't have Ap1 when 6 to hit
- have the scout special rule
- pathfinders rend on 5+

Guardians

- decrease by 1 point
- max unit size = 10
- fitted with defensive grenades
- can still shoot the weapon platform when gone to ground
- storm guardians have plasma grenade instead of defensive grenades

Fast attack

Shining spears

- increase attacks to 2
- increase exarchs attacks to 3
- Withdraw exarch power decreased by 5 points

Warp spiders

- increase points by 3 per model
- changing death spinner to S4 AP- template weapon
- double spinner: S5 AP5 template
- spinneret rifle: 18" S7 Ap1 assault 2
- surprise assault: 10 points. After deep striking, unit can assault

Swooping hawks

- Lasblaster: 24" S3 AP6 Assault 3 pinning
- lose the grenade pack
- Sunrifle: 24" S3 AP6 assault 10 pinning
- Hawks talon: 24" S5 AP6 assault 4
- Skyleap is reduced by 5 points
- Haywire granades damage as follows: 1-3 vehicle is stunned, 4-6 vehicle is immobilized.
- decreased by 3 points

Vyper

- point decreased by 10 points
- eml decreased by 5 points
- scatter laser decreased by 5 points
- star engines decreased by 5 points
- spirit stones decreased by 5 points
- Able to deep strike

Heavy Support

Heavy weapon support teams

- before the first shot, apply night fight rules
- Guardians always count in 4+ cover (combining to 3+ if accompanied by a concealing warlock)
- D-Cannon: 36" SX AP2 Heavy 1, Blast, Barrage
- Vibro Cannon: 48" S5 AP- Heavy 1, Pinning (every additional platform adds 1 S)
- Shadow weaver: 48" S6 AP6 Heavy 1, Barrage, large blast

Dark Reaper

- Exarch powers: Crack shot -> increased to 30 points, effects the whole squad
- Exarch powers: Fast shot -> increased to 30 points, effects the whole squad
- Exarch powers: relentless for 30 points, effects the whole squad

Wraithlord

- eml decreased by 5 points
- scatter laser decreased by 5 points
- shuriken cannon decreased by 5 points
- Wraithsword increases to 20 points, adds 2 attacks
- option for shield which gives 5++ save for 25 points
- option for a single D-Cannon for 35 points
- option for one or two vibro cannons for 20 points per gun (two guns giving it S6 and twin link)
- option for one shadow weaver for 15 points


Falcon

- decrease points by 25 points
- turrent counts as one offensive weapon
- decrease scatter laser by 5 points

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Sooo, many decreases as you can see, but i hope nothing overpowering.
Wanted to differentiate the craftworlds a bit more and buffing the underpowered choices (especially vypers and hawks)
Some changes are just ideas thrown in.Some units haven't got a treatment because i either feel they are fine or haven't got experience with them.
Tell me what you think!

Greets
Schepp himself

Suggestions in the thread:

- Giving the farseer better powers
- Third HQ choice, better warlock leader for example
- Add Bonesinger
- changing wraithguard fundamentally
- Wraithguard -> FNP
- melee aspects WS5 (instead of A2)
- Wave serpent gains scout and/or ability to drop troops midflight (a la vendetta)
- Ranger warlock addon
- further defining the different roles for warp spiders and swooping hawks
- making the Warp spider launcher better. Suggestion is S4 AP5 template.
- shifting the falcon in the Fast section
- Turning the Vyper into an attack bike
- Making the Vyper enclosed
- Give Reapers 2+ AS

- Light transport option
- differentiating the shuriken cannon and the scatter laser
- Craftworld specific advantages
- Adding a special rule for Eldar to make them faster/more mobile
- Making reserves, rolls for turns etc. less random for eldar
- Harlequin transport (Venom)
- Harlequin units (Mimes etc.)

I think some good ideas except avatars melta shot. That's good. Mainly id like to see better pshychic powers, evin if it is for a points increase, Wraithlords/ wraithguards should have more attacks: 4 for wraithlord and 2 for wraithguard, striking scorpion idea is good too. Vipers i thinkshould be better and have either, choice of two weapons, cheaper or better AV. Also ithink rangers should perhaps have better weapons

Ranger laser rifle: Range 36" SX AP2 Rules: Pinning, Heavy 1, Sniper

And perhaps allow a "camo" warlock to join the squad

Two things I don't like.

1. Eldritch Storm should be a massively powerful psychic power, not a piss-weak electric shock that can't even ignore flak armour. I'd give it at least AP4.

2. Why do Warp Spiders have to have S3 AP- weapons? Why not give them all S4 AP5 template weapons, so they've got a happy-medium between strength and AP?

Eldar Own wrote:I think some good ideas except avatars melta shot. That's good. Mainly id like to see better pshychic powers, evin if it is for a points increase, Wraithlords/ wraithguards should have more attacks: 4 for wraithlord and 2 for wraithguard, striking scorpion idea is good too. Vipers i thinkshould be better and have either, choice of two weapons, cheaper or better AV. Also ithink rangers should perhaps have better weapons

Ranger laser rifle: Range 36" SX AP2 Rules: Pinning, Heavy 1, Sniper

And perhaps allow a "camo" warlock to join the squad

Personal taste with the melta shot, I simply don't like it. Stylewise.

I wanted the Wraithguard more like a super anvil, making them resistant to anti-tank weaponry but not überpowerful.

I like the idea for rangers. But maybe AP3 base, you still have rending to crack those terminators and MCs.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Two things I don't like.

1. Eldritch Storm should be a massively powerful psychic power, not a piss-weak electric shock that can't even ignore flak armour. I'd give it at least AP4.

2. Why do Warp Spiders have to have S3 AP- weapons? Why not give them all S4 AP5 template weapons, so they've got a happy-medium between strength and AP?

True, the Eldritch strom could be buffed imo.

Concerning the Warp Spiders: I thought that a jump squad with flamers (let's say 8) blasting away with standard flamers could be a bit overpowered. How many hits do you get per flamer template? Maybe 6? That's a lot of wounds. I like when an Armor save of 5+ and 6+ is not just for show and get negated by all weapons anyway. Why then give units a armor save worse than 4+ anyway?

But the general idea was to give the Spiders their template weapons back. Eldar have no problem with S6 weaponry.

Thanks for the replies!

Greets
Schepp himself

Falcon

- decrease points by 10 points
- decrease scatter laser by 5 points
- decrease bright lance by 10 points
- decrease star cannon by 5 points
- decrease holo fields by 5 points
- decrease vectored engines by 5 points

Also make this a fast attack choice even with these reductions there's heavy choices which are much better value.

As far as psychic powers go, Eldar should be as powerful if not more so than Marines and at the very least I would expect a couple more powers added. Perhaps 2 versions of Eldritch Storm? ala focused and unfocused shot. Maybe some sort of movement based power, Farseers could also get more powerful versions of warlock powers (pick a unit to be able to auto pass/fail Ld, re-rolls to hit in combat, +2 to cover saves etc).

On the whole I think the points adjustments for the weapons are good (they should really be the same across the board which would save you writing it everywhere). The starcannon should really either get the points breaks or return to its old profile but not both, otherwise we just change from scatter lasers to starcannons again. Tbh I think the shuriken cannon should gain pinning to give some advantage over the scatter laser which has a very similar role.

Retinue for the Autarch doesn't really make sense, probably better to just make him boost the skills of any unit he is with (maybe only guardians though). Warlocks should be Ld9, they are supposed to be battle leaders and are no better than any of the Guardians they are leading. I would also like to see another HQ choice added, something with 2W and fairly cheap (Guardian or Warlock Leader?) which would be helpful for smaller games and add some variety. Avatar is fine as is, melta shot is worth keeping and fluffy.

I would also like to see another transport, something similar to the old Harliequin transport, based off a Vyper chassis and could transport 6 (can't remember what it was called). This could fill the cheap transport slot and keep the Wave Serpents as a heavier, more expensive transport (they still need a points break).

So yeah on the whole I like it but its mostly just making minor changes to everything rather than the more drastic changes needed for some of the units which are currently useless or not worth taking, the changes often don't address the underlying flaws in the unit. Wraithguard for example, giving them 2W is all very well but it still doesn't change the fact that they have 12" guns and average at best in assaults (and too expensive to use as a suicide squad). Spiders and Hawks still have no real role, Falcons are horribly outclassed by Prisms and Vypers still drop like flies at the slightest sneeze.

This of course assumes that there aren't going to be any major changes to the core Eldar rules (changing the Shuriken catapult, race specific rules etc) which would force everything else to change around them.
Basically every unit in the Eldar army has and needs a role which requires someone to go through unit by unit working out what each needs to be able to do and how to do it.

Tri wrote:Falcon

- decrease points by 10 points
- decrease scatter laser by 5 points
- decrease bright lance by 10 points
- decrease star cannon by 5 points
- decrease holo fields by 5 points
- decrease vectored engines by 5 points

Also make this a fast attack choice even with these reductions there's heavy choices which are much better value.

Really?
I fear a new nobrainer list coming with falcons for fast, prisms for heavy and serpents for the minimum troops. I don't like that.
But shifting one unit from the heavy to the fast section, maybe war walkers?
Or making the falcon somewhat lighter so it would fit better in the fast section.

Greets
Schepp himself

Just make a Falcon a Dedicated Transport option in addition to being a heavy choice. The only reason to take one as a heavy is for a small unit that doesn't have a dedicated transport option built in.


Give Heavy Weapons Platforms some form of sighting protection like forcing night fight checks to target them.
They will still die at short ranges easily but not be 100-150 point "death-wish" choices for the eldar. (Maybe this is what conceal could turn into for warlocks...)

Powerguy wrote:As far as psychic powers go, Eldar should be as powerful if not more so than Marines and at the very least I would expect a couple more powers added. Perhaps 2 versions of Eldritch Storm? ala focused and unfocused shot. Maybe some sort of movement based power, Farseers could also get more powerful versions of warlock powers (pick a unit to be able to auto pass/fail Ld, re-rolls to hit in combat, +2 to cover saves etc).

On the whole I think the points adjustments for the weapons are good (they should really be the same across the board which would save you writing it everywhere). The starcannon should really either get the points breaks or return to its old profile but not both, otherwise we just change from scatter lasers to starcannons again. Tbh I think the shuriken cannon should gain pinning to give some advantage over the scatter laser which has a very similar role.

- True points, maybe shifting the shuriken cannon to a more autocannony direction. Don't know

Powerguy wrote:
Retinue for the Autarch doesn't really make sense, probably better to just make him boost the skills of any unit he is with (maybe only guardians though). Warlocks should be Ld9, they are supposed to be battle leaders and are no better than any of the Guardians they are leading. I would also like to see another HQ choice added, something with 2W and fairly cheap (Guardian or Warlock Leader?) which would be helpful for smaller games and add some variety. Avatar is fine as is, melta shot is worth keeping and fluffy.

- Good idea.

Powerguy wrote:
I would also like to see another transport, something similar to the old Harliequin transport, based off a Vyper chassis and could transport 6 (can't remember what it was called). This could fill the cheap transport slot and keep the Wave Serpents as a heavier, more expensive transport (they still need a points break).

- Interesting, putting the land speeder storm to shame

Powerguy wrote:
So yeah on the whole I like it but its mostly just making minor changes to everything rather than the more drastic changes needed for some of the units which are currently useless or not worth taking, the changes often don't address the underlying flaws in the unit. Wraithguard for example, giving them 2W is all very well but it still doesn't change the fact that they have 12" guns and average at best in assaults (and too expensive to use as a suicide squad). Spiders and Hawks still have no real role, Falcons are horribly outclassed by Prisms and Vypers still drop like flies at the slightest sneeze.

- Warp spider and swooping hawks are somewhat filling the same role. Fast anti-inf killer.
- Wraithguard should be just that. Guards. And no eldar unit should be used as suicide squads imo.
- Vypers shouldn't be harder than speeders. They should scoop around and taking pot shots to vehicles.
- Falcons, like land raiders , have to use their transport and their armament to make their points back. Question is, how do you accomplish that?

Powerguy wrote:
This of course assumes that there aren't going to be any major changes to the core Eldar rules (changing the Shuriken catapult, race specific rules etc) which would force everything else to change around them.
Basically every unit in the Eldar army has and needs a role which requires someone to go through unit by unit working out what each needs to be able to do and how to do it.

+1

Greets
Schepp himself

Schepp himself wrote:

Tri wrote:Falcon

- decrease points by 10 points
- decrease scatter laser by 5 points
- decrease bright lance by 10 points
- decrease star cannon by 5 points
- decrease holo fields by 5 points
- decrease vectored engines by 5 points

Also make this a fast attack choice even with these reductions there's heavy choices which are much better value.

Really?
I fear a new nobrainer list coming with falcons for fast, prisms for heavy and serpents for the minimum troops. I don't like that.
But shifting one unit from the heavy to the fast section, maybe war walkers?
Or making the falcon somewhat lighter so it would fit better in the fast section.

Greets
Schepp himself

Well if your going down that route what that ... that could be as few as 13 models .... stunning the 6 tanks and then shoot every thing else at troop .... no i can't see that being a winning list. As I've said before the falcon can be good its just not worth a heavy slot.
Moving it to fast gives people the option of taking them again. Sure some newbies will look at the army and go wow i can take 6 hover tanks, but when they try it they'll quickly realise that they've hardly any thing to play with.

I'd make Eldar generally better at using psychic powers. After all, they are the psychic race, bested only by Tzeentchian daemons. These are Space Elves who've been around since humans were monkeys, and they can't best Gateway of Infinity?

All of these changes are absurd. Eldar players truly are the whiniest of the bunch.

The only thing I can agree with is decreasing the cost of waveserpents a little.

dumbuket wrote:All of these changes are absurd. Eldar players truly are the whiniest of the bunch.

The only thing I can agree with is decreasing the cost of waveserpents a little.

Where was the whine exactly?
Making Vypers cheaper is whining? Because they are so gamebreaking at the moment? True, I saw the 9 Vypers of doom dominating this year 'ard boys. Damn!

Cheese Elemental wrote:I'd make Eldar generally better at using psychic powers. After all, they are the psychic race, bested only by Tzeentchian daemons. These are Space Elves who've been around since humans were monkeys, and they can't best Gateway of Infinity?

True, but how? The passive powers are already great imo, some offensive punch and another buffing spell maybe?

Stripping away all saves from a target, similar to doom? Just brainstorming here.

Tri wrote:...a bunch of stuff

Mhh...true, the heavy slot is contested pretty tightly at the moment. Would you suggest a simple switch or more changes to the statline and options of the falcon, Tri?

Greets
Schepp himself

EDIT: posted your suggestion in the thread and tweaked some points.

Personally i think a simple switch to fast attack is best.

If you add to the tank your going to have to increase the price. The biggest nerf that falcons got was that deflective weapons became Strength 4. If they were still Strength 6 I think the falcon might still have a place as a in heavy support.

Hm, a few things:

- Shining Spears squadsize up to 10
- Autarch maybe able to take exarch weaponry? Or exarch powers. Anyway, he needs some more customization.

- Return Crystal Targetting Matrix to some vehicles (vypers)? (if you don't know what it did, it used to allow eldar vehicles to move-shoot-move)

Strongly disagree about changing the Veil rules, the "you can't target us - nyah-nyah-nyah" is much cooler :] What's your reasoning behind this?

number9dream wrote:Hm, a few things:

- Shining Spears squadsize up to 10
- Autarch maybe able to take exarch weaponry? Or exarch powers. Anyway, he needs some more customization.

- Return Crystal Targetting Matrix to some vehicles (vypers)? (if you don't know what it did, it used to allow eldar vehicles to move-shoot-move)

Strongly disagree about changing the Veil rules, the "you can't target us - nyah-nyah-nyah" is much cooler :] What's your reasoning behind this?

Hehe, whileI agree that is has a classic clown feel to it, I generally don't like when special rules make you circumvent a load of basic rules. Same with special rules that negate speical rules (best example: Black templar raider that can ignore lances, Energy field that ignores melta etc.). A high cover save would make things running more smoothly imo.

Crystal targeting matrix i remember. I also remember the crying that occur and I believe that crying was routed in the fact that it broke a basic rule of the game.

Agree on the Autarch.

Shining spears is ok, i guess. If the unit is generally balanced, it doesn't get cheesy if you put all you eggs in one basket (unlike jetlock-council and nob bikers)

Greets
Schepp himself

I dunno, Eldar are already pretty powerful. Alot of this stuff would make them incredibly broken. I mean where are any of the downsides? Some points go up but not alot. The Avitar is already amazing for 155 points. His only downside is that he is slow. If anything he should be more costly or worse IMO. The Farseer getting more powerful and cheaper in cost? Again, the seer is pretty amazing. A kitted out one on foot runs around 150 points but the impact on the game if used correctly far exceeds that.

Banshees and Scorpions getting more attacks for their cost is too much. They would have 3 attacks base 4 on a charge. If anything there just needs to be a way to take them as troops if you take an Autrarch of a certain type. When you look at the Crack shot for the whole squad it just seems ungodly. Ignore cover and re roll wounds for all meltas in there? You might as well just wipe off anything they shoot at now. 20 points for a 10 man squad is only 2 a model. For a 5 its 4. Not alot of points in the grand scheme of things.

The Wraithguard maybe. I'd say 2 wounds would be legit. Or the dropping 5 points. Not both though. The 3+ cover on the harlies I believe would be more fair. The strength 4 for the leader...ok I guess. The auto fall back... I dunno about.

I'd be ok with the Wave Serpent costing less if it lost the energy shield on the side armor. As it stands I feel it is about appropriately costed for how damn hard it is to kill and the speed of the thing. The weapons costing less I'd be cool with.

The DA's stuff is ok. Really they aren't a CC squad so it's kinda a moot point. If anything these guys should go down in cost by a point or 2. The Rangers seem fair. The Guardians as well. As for the Hawks I dunno. I think assault 10 is a bit much. The gernade pack is pretty cool too. Viper changes fine it needs help.

The Reapers shouldn't get the Crack for the whole squad. Again, just shovel squads of 3+ save and up guys off the table for little extra cost. I dunno about the WL getting a 4+ inv. He has T8. Maybe 5+. Falcon changes fine.

Overall, I don't see much of a problem with the Eldar codex aside from the troop choices. The rest of the codex is pretty strong save a few units that could use some point tweaking (I think the Falcon, Viper, Hawks come to mind). The Autrarch should be a more focused choice but allow you to take a corresponding unit then as troops. The DA's need to go down in points a bit. Other than that I don't think Eldar need these changes. Alot of the stuff you posted would make them just overpowered and broken.

I think all their stats should be 10, and all the models only cost one point.

Schepp himself wrote:

number9dream wrote:Hm, a few things:

- Shining Spears squadsize up to 10
- Autarch maybe able to take exarch weaponry? Or exarch powers. Anyway, he needs some more customization.

- Return Crystal Targetting Matrix to some vehicles (vypers)? (if you don't know what it did, it used to allow eldar vehicles to move-shoot-move)

Strongly disagree about changing the Veil rules, the "you can't target us - nyah-nyah-nyah" is much cooler :] What's your reasoning behind this?

Hehe, whileI agree that is has a classic clown feel to it, I generally don't like when special rules make you circumvent a load of basic rules. Same with special rules that negate speical rules (best example: Black templar raider that can ignore lances, Energy field that ignores melta etc.). A high cover save would make things running more smoothly imo.

Crystal targeting matrix i remember. I also remember the crying that occur and I believe that crying was routed in the fact that it broke a basic rule of the game.

Agree on the Autarch.

Shining spears is ok, i guess. If the unit is generally balanced, it doesn't get cheesy if you put all you eggs in one basket (unlike jetlock-council and nob bikers)

Greets
Schepp himself

Hm, I think it's sad if everything has to be streamlined :(

It's really only an improved version of night fighting, I don't think it *should* be a problem. Likewise, all eldar jetbikes can move 6" in the assault phase even if they don't assault - doesn't this break a basic rule in the same way as the crystal targetting matrix does?

Schepp himself wrote:

Powerguy wrote:
So yeah on the whole I like it but its mostly just making minor changes to everything rather than the more drastic changes needed for some of the units which are currently useless or not worth taking, the changes often don't address the underlying flaws in the unit. Wraithguard for example, giving them 2W is all very well but it still doesn't change the fact that they have 12" guns and average at best in assaults (and too expensive to use as a suicide squad). Spiders and Hawks still have no real role, Falcons are horribly outclassed by Prisms and Vypers still drop like flies at the slightest sneeze.

- Warp spider and swooping hawks are somewhat filling the same role. Fast anti-inf killer.
- Wraithguard should be just that. Guards. And no eldar unit should be used as suicide squads imo.
- Vypers shouldn't be harder than speeders. They should scoop around and taking pot shots to vehicles.
- Falcons, like land raiders , have to use their transport and their armament to make their points back. Question is, how do you accomplish that?

Schepp himself

Yes Spiders and Hawks are fast anti-inf units, the problem is that almost any other unit in the codex can do a decent job with anti-inf (hell even a Guardian Defender squad can do that job + are a hell of a lot cheaper and scoring) so there is no real reason to take them. Hawks used to be grenade specialists and late game objective grabbers but got nerfed by 5th, tbh I think they just need some improvements in the grenade specialist area and a decent gun to become a good (and relatively cheap) harassment unit against both inf and armour. Spiders are a bit trickier as I don't think they have ever had a clearly defined role that they were actually any good at. Changing their guns to flamer templates would be a good start, maybe a weak (S2-3) low AP (3-4) gun which causes pinning (I can't see the point in another S4 AP5 flame template, there are already heaps of units which have this, as stated I don't think another short ranged light infantry killer is needed in the Eldar list) and some more powers/rules based around teleportation/deep strike.

Ok so if Wraithguard are guards, what are they guarding . I'm still in favour of the option to give them some sort of decent CC loadout (allow mixed squad loadout maybe), or even just give them a second CC weapon and make the Wraithcannon 1 handed to give them a decent number of attacks at high strength (and high WS/I with Enhance). Still not sure if that would be enough for me to take them over Fire Dragons unless someone stole all my Wave Serpents though. I agree that no Eldar unit should be used as a suicide squad but thats just the way that much of the army has be played, simply due to the lack of survivabilty. Some sort of JSJ type mechanic would need to be added to have some chance of units surviving more often but this would require a total rethink of the entire army and points costs. The specialisation of Eldar means I can happily bust a Land Raider with 5 Fire Dragons or some Terminator with Banshees but I know that most of the time the squad will die the next turn when a combat squad rapid fires them to death but generally you can accept that you have won out point for point. Based on their current setup Wraithguard are meant to be heavy infantry and tank killers but Fire Dragons do the same role for much much cheaper and can fit more guys into a transport. They cost as much (more due to new codex??) as terminators and aren't anywhere near as good atm.

Agree Vypers shouldn't be harder than Land Speeders then they also should cost twice as much either. Beside the obvious points adjustment, I would like to see the option for upgrading to a twin linked gun, atm they are far outclassed even within the codex by War Walkers (who also have Scout/Outflank). I expect Deep Strike to be added for them in any case.

Falcons essentially fill the same role as vanilla Land Raiders do, just swapping armour for speed. They either move forward at speed, drop a squad and then pull back to fire off its main guns, or they sit in the back field firing off its main guns and either become a scoring unit or a counterattack force depending on the unit inside. Making all the turrent mounted weapons count as 1 (i.e be able to fire both of them on the move) would be a good start but I'm not sure if that would be enough to make them a viable choice over the Prism.

Before I get too carried away I should mention that I expect quite a few things to be brought into line with the current design ethos, making more upgrades use USR rather than similar race/unit specific rules. For example Conceal will likely change to Stealth/+1 or 2 to cover saves, Embolden to Stubborn, Enhance to Furious Charge etc.
A few other ideas I've seen floating round which haven't been mentioned; adding a Guardian Sergeant type upgrade for Guardian squads which would give them access to certain upgrades like Energy Shields (ala Dawn of War) but still allow the addition of a Warlock for other upgrades. Adding a Bonesinger to the list is pretty likely tbh, add FNP to Wraithguard and a power to restore 1-2 wounds to a Wraithlord. Another unit everyone has totally forgotten are the Heavy Support Weapons platforms, which need some major changes to increase survivabilty and damage output (longer range D cannon, increased strength/AP for the Shadow Weaver and make the Vibrocannon actually do something). All the Phoenix Lords need an Inv save (5++ probably). Going on current trends, quite a few special characters should return + they really should find a replacement for Eldrad (fluffwise he's 99% dead). Some return to the Craftworld specialisations would be nice, perhaps some unique units, 1 per craftworld (and obviously only able to pick 1 of these units per army) which would add some craftworld fluff back in without the return to that amazingly frustrating Disruption table and Black Guardian spam. Depending on how radical the designers get we could see some expansion/more units/rules for Harlies and Exodites which would be pretty cool.

To all the people thinking that these kind of changes will make Eldar broken they need to look at the units which people are proposing actual changes to (rather than just minor points adjustments) and then count the number of times you have seen these units in 5th a) on the table and b) doing something useful/effective. Off the top of my head the only majorly overpowered unit in the Eldar codex in the Jetlock Council (as its doesn't have the common eldar disadvantage of being squishy while still being pretty good at hitting things) which will likely either get totally removed or get a major points hike. I want to be able to have more than just a couple of effective army builds, particularly ones which I can actually use Guardians in and not have to spam Wave Serpents.

I completely agree about the DA exarch...should be able to choose what combination of things...

Updated some stuff.

Keep the ideas coming please!

Greets
Schepp himself

The waveserpent needs some help.

For years the arguement has been that the serpent doesnt cost too much because it is a fast transport, and its the best transport in the game. A basic serpent with a shuriken cannon and spirit stones (extra armor) runs 110 points.

Now let us look at the new IG vendetta (the valk is cheaper but has a weapons load that doesnt compare closely with anything the serpent can take). For 130 points we get a fast transport with 3 tl lascannons and extra armor. But it also can deepstrike, can make a scout move before the game begins, and can grav chute deploy its infantry even when it moves at 24". Oh, and for another 10 points it can add 2 heavy bolters as well.

The serpent has its energy field, and can tank shock. Its closest weapon upgrade ( a single tl bright lance) puts it at 145 points.


The eldar, the army famous for its speed, have a transport that isnt as fast as the IG. (deep strike, scout move and deploy while moving fast)


The serpent is radically weaker than the vendetta while actually costing more points for its most similar weapons load. And I dont know about you, but I would vastly prefer 3 lascannons over one bright lance.



The point cost on the serpent should be greatly reduced or else it should gain some major new abilities. Let it deepstrike, give it scout, perhaps let it become and assault transport like the land raider. (it doesnt have an assault ramp but its so much faster than other vehicles that the pilot can easily deposit the troops exactly where they need to be in ready order to launch an assault)


There has never been a transport close to the serpent before so cost arguements could be ignored .... that is no longer the case since the launch of the vendetta/ valk.

As an eldar player I would gladly take vendettas instead of wave serpents now. The scout move alone puts the vendetta miles ahead of the serpent.


Sliggoth

I love the energy field. I don't care what anyone says, they are equal. Because on the move (which is all that counts for a transport) Serpents are stronger. 3 TL lascannons mean nothing if you can only fire 1.

1 Lascannon on the move = 1 EML or bright lance on the move
Energy fields > No Energy Fields
Small Flying Base > Freaking Enormous Flying Base
Vectored/Star Engines > Grav Chute

If you consider the Serpent in the context of the eldar army, I think that you have to be careful how to tone down its pointcost. The valkyrie cannot bring dedicated assault troops in the middle of the enemy lines.

So a mild point drop would pretty much solve the problem imo. And consider that with scorpions, the wave serpent can in fact outflank.

Greets
Schepp himself

Added some stuff, especially the heavy weapon platform. Highlighted all the recent changes in red as ever. Implemented some ideas by you.
Tell me what you think!

Greets
Schepp himself

Scout move >>> outflanking tho. Before the first turn of the game the vendetta can mobe 24", then move either another 12" and unload its troops or another 24" and drop its troops. There is literally no where on the table that is out of range of its melt gun armed troops on the first turn of the game (I think IG can only get 4 meltas in one unit, still not bad).

With the wave serpent we can move them 12" on the first turn and unload troops ... so very impressive for an army that has long been touted as one of the fastest in the game. Being able to outflank some scorps a couple turns later just doesnt equalize things.

Also, with the 24" scout move the vendetta is very likely to be close to where it wants to unload its troops, it may very well not have to move any farther at all ... so yes they can unload their meltas to pop one heavy tank and use its 3 TL las cannons to take out another vehicle as well. Or with heavy bolter add ons it can demolish an infantry unit instead.

Sliggoth

Sliggoth wrote:Scout move >>> outflanking tho. Before the first turn of the game the vendetta can mobe 24", then move either another 12" and unload its troops or another 24" and drop its troops. There is literally no where on the table that is out of range of its melt gun armed troops on the first turn of the game (I think IG can only get 4 meltas in one unit, still not bad).

With the wave serpent we can move them 12" on the first turn and unload troops ... so very impressive for an army that has long been touted as one of the fastest in the game. Being able to outflank some scorps a couple turns later just doesnt equalize things.

Also, with the 24" scout move the vendetta is very likely to be close to where it wants to unload its troops, it may very well not have to move any farther at all ... so yes they can unload their meltas to pop one heavy tank and use its 3 TL las cannons to take out another vehicle as well. Or with heavy bolter add ons it can demolish an infantry unit instead.

Sliggoth

Point taken, but the solution would be to tone down the vendetta and not buffing the serpent too much. Codex creep anyone? And there won't be a new model for the serpent, so Gw has no reason to make it a nobrainer choice.

Greets
Schepp himself

i was playing with my eldar against an ork army andafter my Shining spears got massacared by an ork mob, i decided they should have +1 attack each

GW you better read this thread!!

There are a few bits n pieces which need work in the codex but I think that, generally, it's still pretty good.

I'm sorry but this just looks like a /pooreldar thread. If you put even half of those suggestions in, the list would be waaaaay too powerful. At the momemnt, it is both competitive and versatile even without the borked Jet councils etc.

Eldar, with the exception of Spears and a few other things, are kind of fine as they are.

WingWong wrote:There are a few bits n pieces which need work in the codex but I think that, generally, it's still pretty good.

I'm sorry but this just looks like a /pooreldar thread. If you put even half of those suggestions in, the list would be waaaaay too powerful. At the momemnt, it is both competitive and versatile even without the borked Jet councils etc.

Eldar, with the exception of Spears and a few other things, are kind of fine as they are.

True but It would be nice to have some shiny new toys or just get back some of the old ones. I miss Wrath lord mounted D-cannons ...

WingWong wrote:There are a few bits n pieces which need work in the codex but I think that, generally, it's still pretty good.

I'm sorry but this just looks like a /pooreldar thread. If you put even half of those suggestions in, the list would be waaaaay too powerful. At the momemnt, it is both competitive and versatile even without the borked Jet councils etc.

It is versatile, that's what I like about it the most. The old codex didn't let me make a unique craftworld, if I wanted something unique, I had to play (unbalanced) Craftworld lists.
Questions: What is too powerful? More than a few people stated this, but failed to define what was too powerful, why so shy?

WingWong wrote:
Eldar, with the exception of Spears and a few other things, are kind of fine as they are.

I kindly disagree. Many units are more or less never taken if you play in an environment which is semi-competitive. To name those gimmicky units (imo):
- unbiked warlocks
- phoenix lords
- Wraithguard
- Harlequins (were overly popular but not anymore, due to rending nerf <- unsure)
- Guardians (most of the time only becazuse the eldar players have a chunkload of them already)
- Shining spears
- Warp spiders
- Swooping hawks
- Vypers
- Support weapon batteries
- Dark Reapers

Upping those units to bring them on par with the others is necessary. All the other changes are for the flavor only (Banshees/scorps for example)

Greets
Schepp himself

I'm one of the rare people to still use the Support weapons batteries ... I must say they've improved allot with the move to 5th. (warlock can now fire a gun yay BS4) (guardians can fire their guns at some thing else)
I think there biggest problems are being able to effectively deploy them and there's never enough Guardians to man them.

I guess one easy way to make Dark reapers and support weapons batteries better would be to combine the units. If a unit of Dark reapers could take 0-5 support weapons (+2 guardians each). Thanks to the new artillery rules any one not firing an artillery piece can fire their own gun at a single different target. And the dark reapers wouldn't be hurt having a warlock for protection.

Also What I'd give for ether unit to have scout to help get into position

Well just a though

What benefit is the scout/spotter? Does he add +1 to hit or allow rerolls for misses or scatters for inidirict fire weapons. Dark Reapers aren't HQ. What if you had Maugan Ra and give him up to three support weapons and crew.

rzsanguine wrote:What benefit is the scout/spotter? Does he add +1 to hit or allow rerolls for misses or scatters for inidirict fire weapons. Dark Reapers aren't HQ. What if you had Maugan Ra and give him up to three support weapons and crew.

I meant Scout (USR) gives you a free movement at the start of the game. So rather then first turn i having to move the Dark reapers (/SWB) to get them into a place that they can shoot from, i can do it in the scout move and have them shooting first turn from a good spot.

I have attached Maugan Ra to a D-cannon battery and the unit did rather well. My view is that DR and SWB would benefit from the pairing. Nether unit wants to be in CC, both units want to shoot. Thanks to the artillery rules even if you combine the units the 2 can still shoot at different targets (Artillery at one every thing else at the other)

I am not sure where you play, but I see these units used very well all of the time. It's only at things like GTs etc where you sere netspam lists. The guy who won the UKGT this year had pretty much everything from this list and came top 5 in heats and won the final.

Schepp himself wrote:

I kindly disagree. Many units are more or less never taken if you play in an environment which is semi-competitive. To name those gimmicky units (imo):
- unbiked warlocks These can still be nice if used in transports correctly
- phoenix lords I actually can see some uses for these but they are overpointed-
Wraithguard Again, if used right they can be devastating
- Harlequins (were overly popular but not anymore, due to rending nerf <- unsure) They are still good but you need them with the right army - they were OP before
- Guardians (most of the time only becazuse the eldar players have a chunkload of them already) Ummm. Guardians are awesome in the right list. Nuff said.
- Shining spears Agreed - they suk
- Warp spiders Er... Spiders have to be my fave aspect. They are just win & i usually take 2 units
- Swooping hawks Agreed - sweet models, rubbish rules 90% of the time
- Vypers Agreed - sweet models, rubbish rules 90% of the time
- Support weapon batteries These are still ebil is setup right
- Dark Reapers Taken a hit in 5th but they are still nasty
Falcons also need a bump now IMO
Upping those units to bring them on par with the others is necessary. All the other changes are for the flavor only (Banshees/scorps for example)

Greets
Schepp himself

I totally agree that Craftworld lists should be used again and it would be nice for some new toys and to iron out the current problems but there are sooo many codexes that need updating before eldar to bring them up to any type of balanced standard.

As to what is OP in the original list, IMO most of it is... At work so no time to reply in detail about this.

The point, Wong, is that SOME eldar things are ALWAYS taken.

If the Eldar player knows who they're playing, of course they're going to be fantastic. There's a reason why almost ever Eldar player (including myself) takes a Seer council. Its the one Eldar unit we can safely take in every list. Almost no other unit in the Eldar line can do that. Eldar players are FORCED to min-max, which is fine, we're an army of specialists, but some things are just insane.

How often have YOU played against an Eldar player who used the Falcon tank as...a tank. Probably never. Its almost always used to ferry troops. For the SAME cost (cheaper, actually, since a Prism tank does not have to take a secondary weapon), the Eldar can get a more powerful shot at longer range that can kill tanks AND infantry.

WingWong wrote:I am not sure where you play, but I see these units used very well all of the time. It's only at things like GTs etc where you sere netspam lists. The guy who won the UKGT this year had pretty much everything from this list and came top 5 in heats and won the final.

Schepp himself wrote:

I kindly disagree. Many units are more or less never taken if you play in an environment which is semi-competitive. To name those gimmicky units (imo):
- unbiked warlocks These can still be nice if used in transports correctly
- phoenix lords I actually can see some uses for these but they are overpointed-
Wraithguard Again, if used right they can be devastating
- Harlequins (were overly popular but not anymore, due to rending nerf <- unsure) They are still good but you need them with the right army - they were OP before
- Guardians (most of the time only becazuse the eldar players have a chunkload of them already) Ummm. Guardians are awesome in the right list. Nuff said.
- Shining spears Agreed - they suk
- Warp spiders Er... Spiders have to be my fave aspect. They are just win & i usually take 2 units
- Swooping hawks Agreed - sweet models, rubbish rules 90% of the time
- Vypers Agreed - sweet models, rubbish rules 90% of the time
- Support weapon batteries These are still ebil is setup right
- Dark Reapers Taken a hit in 5th but they are still nasty
Falcons also need a bump now IMO
Upping those units to bring them on par with the others is necessary. All the other changes are for the flavor only (Banshees/scorps for example)

Greets
Schepp himself

I totally agree that Craftworld lists should be used again and it would be nice for some new toys and to iron out the current problems but there are sooo many codexes that need updating before eldar to bring them up to any type of balanced standard.

As to what is OP in the original list, IMO most of it is... At work so no time to reply in detail about this.

That's sad.
But to your comments: The above list was a rough example which units i felt were underrepresented in most of the eldar lists (with competition in mind).
That they can be used effectively is a given for most of them. I also use Falcon and Reapers and they perform quite well. I also use Maugan Ra is some of my games.
What I tried was to buff all the "useless" units which are simply overpriced or don't have a clear battlefield role. The Warp spiders and Hawks come to mind. The change to flame weaponry for the Warp Spiders wasn't to nerf/buff them but to make them a bit different from each other.
I want nothing less than overpowering eldar.

Greets
Schepp himself

I would like to see a fast attack choice that was worthwhile taking. Eldar have 4 choices, 2 (hawks and vypers) of which are terribly weak and 2 (spyders and spears) of which are pricey and limited in use.

On serpents, saying that the valk/ vendetta should be nerfed instead of the serpent being improved is ... dreaming. Perhaps in the next IG codex there will be some downgrades, so we should be happy for the next 4 years that the (slow) IG have a better, cheaper and more shooty transport than the (fast) eldar?
They dont need to change the serpent model; how about just giving it scout and deepstrike to bring it a bit closer in line to the IG? Perhaps let it deploy troops after moving fast or at least droping them, again to bring it a bit closer in line to the IG?
Or drop the points a bit, again to bring it a bit closer in line to the IG?

I realize that the serpent isnt going to get upgunned to bring it a bit closer in line to the IG in that category.


Sliggoth

Sliggoth wrote:I would like to see a fast attack choice that was worthwhile taking. Eldar have 4 choices, 2 (hawks and vypers) of which are terribly weak and 2 (spyders and spears) of which are pricey and limited in use.

On serpents, saying that the valk/ vendetta should be nerfed instead of the serpent being improved is ... dreaming. Perhaps in the next IG codex there will be some downgrades, so we should be happy for the next 4 years that the (slow) IG have a better, cheaper and more shooty transport than the (fast) eldar?
They dont need to change the serpent model; how about just giving it scout and deepstrike to bring it a bit closer in line to the IG? Perhaps let it deploy troops after moving fast or at least droping them, again to bring it a bit closer in line to the IG?
Or drop the points a bit, again to bring it a bit closer in line to the IG?

I realize that the serpent isnt going to get upgunned to bring it a bit closer in line to the IG in that category.


Sliggoth

Making the Wave serpent a sleeker Valkyrie would be a bit uncreative imo. And up to 36"(with star engines) scout move
before the game starts sounds not cool. Pretty boring to be honest.

But ou're right, something has to be done with the Fast attack choices.
When I read the Planetstrike rules, it struck me that the option of taking 6 fast choices was rather useless for the eldar.

Greets
Schepp himself

I have plenty of comments on this. Some of the ideas seem fine, while other are just blatantly overpowered.



1) Toughness 7 avatars is to much. With toughness 7 not only is he immune to STR 3 shots, but plasma wounds him on a 4+ instead of a 3+. Combined with an immunity to melta/flamer , 3+ save and 4++ it makes it way to powerful.

2) 30 Point wraithguard is silly as well. A toughness 6 troop with 2 wounds a 3+ save, a 5+ cover save cause of the warlock, and a weapon that can kill anything in the game. I'm sorry doesn't anyone see this as just stupid.

3) Wraithlord. The sword and shield options are also ridiculous. 5 Rerollable attacks on the charge? a 4+ invul!! thats crazy. The model's defense is his toughness. Not his save. Because the only way to kill it is to bombard it will allot of hits. With the options you are giving it make it the single toughest model in the game aside from Ctan!


(rant on)
Imagine these three units in your army together.

Because of these rules you can have an entire army that has at least 2 wounds toughness 6+ and a cover/invul save. Which means that they only things that can actually hurt them aka meltas and plasmas have a base 50% chance to be ignored. I can't even conceive how you anyone can see this as fair. Everything single basic weapon in the game is rendered useless except for the tau gun. Furthermore these rules turn eldar into the toughest army in the game. No not nurgle, not tyrandis or orks but eldar? I mean come on think about it for a minute. Who wouldn't play this army because it just 40 times better than anything that exists in the game. Oh did I mention that they are all also fearless.

(rant off)

Those were the biggest concerns I had with the army changes you are proposing.

Striking scorpions/banshees.
Having 2 base attacks may be a little much.
Maybe WS 5 instead?

Aspect Warrior Squad Powers.

I really like the idea of having them apply to the whole squad but then must be modified to resent it applying to a whole unit.

Suggestions.
Everything else is pretty much on point.
Give dark reapers a 2+ save. They need it.
Turn vypers into attack bikes!!! 2 Wounds T4 would be so much more effective.

Sorry if I upset annyone I just feel very strongly about this.

No offense taken at all! Thanks for the feedback.

To your points:

dumplingman wrote:

1) Toughness 7 avatars is to much. With toughness 7 not only is he immune to STR 3 shots, but plasma wounds him on a 4+ instead of a 3+. Combined with an immunity to melta/flamer , 3+ save and 4++ it makes it way to powerful.

Don't see that a toughness increase for 15 points makes him suddenly too powerful but ok.

dumplingman wrote:
2) 30 Point wraithguard is silly as well. A toughness 6 troop with 2 wounds a 3+ save, a 5+ cover save cause of the warlock, and a weapon that can kill anything in the game. I'm sorry doesn't anyone see this as just stupid.

- Ok, the warlock only gives stealth to the squad, so no auto 5+ save, other than that: Wraithguard are horribly overpriced at the moment and a full unit still costs 300 points without any decent horde control firepower. But it is true that the 2W and the range increase is maybe a bit much.

dumplingman wrote:

3) Wraithlord. The sword and shield options are also ridiculous. 5 Rerollable attacks on the charge? a 4+ invul!! thats crazy. The model's defense is his toughness. Not his save. Because the only way to kill it is to bombard it will allot of hits. With the options you are giving it make it the single toughest model in the game aside from Ctan!

True, I see the old 3 Wraithlord lists with three shield/sword Wraithlord for 135 points.
Either: reducing the invl. save of the shield
or strapping the re-roll of the sword
or both

I tend to include the third choice.

dumplingman wrote:
(rant on)
Imagine these three units in your army together.

Because of these rules you can have an entire army that has at least 2 wounds toughness 6+ and a cover/invul save. Which means that they only things that can actually hurt them aka meltas and plasmas have a base 50% chance to be ignored. I can't even conceive how you anyone can see this as fair. Everything single basic weapon in the game is rendered useless except for the tau gun. Furthermore these rules turn eldar into the toughest army in the game. No not nurgle, not tyrandis or orks but eldar? I mean come on think about it for a minute. Who wouldn't play this army because it just 40 times better than anything that exists in the game. Oh did I mention that they are all also fearless.

(rant off)

This army would have a very low body count (around 450 for 3 wraithlords, 900 for 3 full squads of wraithguard), imagine what blast weapons could do to this army... but i see your point. With the aforementioned changes, this army wouldn't look so overpowering.

dumplingman wrote:
Those were the biggest concerns I had with the army changes you are proposing.

Striking scorpions/banshees.
Having 2 base attacks may be a little much.
Maybe WS 5 instead?

Aspect Warrior Squad Powers.

I really like the idea of having them apply to the whole squad but then must be modified to resent it applying to a whole unit.

Suggestions.
Everything else is pretty much on point.
Give dark reapers a 2+ save. They need it.
Turn vypers into attack bikes!!! 2 Wounds T4 would be so much more effective.

Sorry if I upset annyone I just feel very strongly about this.

I include your suggestions in the list. A 2+ save for reapers is prett nasty, especially if fortuned.
turning Vypers into attack bikes is a popular demand, either way, they would perform better, so I'm for it!
The base 2 attacks is hard, but imo suits the eldar melee aspects. Maybe the had to be more expensive then, but the aspects tend to die after they crushed the resistance due to glass-hammer-syndrome.

Since 5e basically nullified the advantage Eldar held with Fleet with the Run rule, I'd like to see an army wide special rule similar to IG's Move! Move! Move! order. Any Eldar unit with fleet rolls 3d6 and takes the highest when Running or Fleeting.

Another obvious one would be any Phoenix Lord attached to a unit of like Aspect Warriors makes that unit a scoring unit. Or maybe an Autarch attached to a unit of Aspect warriors are scoring (while I'm wishlisting).

Essentially, I'd love to see rules that enhance what I consider Eldar strengths... maneuver and Psychic powers... because you know come October, codex creep is going to make SW Rune Priests the best Psykers in the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also with the advent of Chapter Tactics, Orders, and the rumored upcoming Sagas, I think Autarchs should have some kind of "Attack Style" in a similar vein so the Autarch can buff whatever style the army is, i.e. mechanized, bike, foot-slogger, gunline, etc. Maybe something along the lines of my roll 3d6 take the highest for fleeting suggestion above, or grant the Scout USR to any Guardian Jetbike squad, or allow Waveserpent to move Flat-out and still deploy passengers as a boon to Mechdar army styles. That sort of thing.

I like the trend of the newer codices granting these specialized army-wide rules that really add to the flavor of these armies, and would think that this would be a good edition for a 5e Eldar codex.

Those are some excellent ideas, ubermosher.

Somewhere I suggested that Eldar should be able to run even if the had shot in the shooting phase, making them a very "hit-and-runny" army.

The suggestions for the Autarch were the same direction as yours, I guess. Depending on the gear, the Autarch could boost certain aspects of the army.
(Saim-Hann or Alaitoc).

Maybe an Biel-Tan autarch could make all Elite units scoring? Or would that be too powerful? I guess so.

Greets
Schepp himself

SH wings for storm guardians

Schepp himself wrote:

Somewhere I suggested that Eldar should be able to run even if the had shot in the shooting phase, making them a very "hit-and-runny" army.

Rather then have them run even if they've shot a weapons why not let all eldar make an assault move (possibly only D6") even if they've no one to assault. Would definitely make guardians useful, as they could get into range and then back off. It's not like Eldar don't already get this ability on some units.

I must say that after playing a few games against a friend's tau, maxed on crisis/stealth suits, I found myself wondering why it was eldar were renowned for speed and maneuver. I spent most of my time trying to gun down JSJ -ing suits with EML's in a decidedly stand and shoot style reminiscent of the IG. The only units we have that can move in the assault phase are jetbikes (not exactly heavy hitters) and warp spiders (doubles anyone?).

Some sort of basic mobility option would be nice, like the ability to run in the assault phase (and the shooting phase? potentially going 18" per turn...hmm....perhaps no cover saves allowed if the double run is made?). Just random musings...

Tri wrote:

Rather then have them run even if they've shot a weapons why not let all eldar make an assault move (possibly only D6") even if they've no one to assault. Would definitely make guardians useful, as they could get into range and then back off. It's not like Eldar don't already get this ability on some units.

Amalinze wrote:Some sort of basic mobility option would be nice, like the ability to run in the assault phase (and the shooting phase? potentially going 18" per turn...hmm....perhaps no cover saves allowed if the double run is made?). Just random musings...

Too many D6 would slow down the game too much, imo.
Always an assault move? Interesting. Wouldn't be too unbalancing, if you didn't combine always running with this.

Keep the ideas coming!

Greets
Schepp himself

Well, I like it - partially.
Downgrading point costs is not enough to build a new codex.

There are three issues that hurt Eldar armies:
1. Random game length.
2. Weak troop (=scoring) units.
3. Skimmers got nerfed.

Ad 1. There should be a wargear that will give the Eldar army a higher chance to end the game if the Eldar players wants this.

Ad 2. An Autarch could name an Aspect Warrior unit (Elite or FA) that counts as scoring.

Ad 3. Energy fields should be available for Falcons and Prisms. Skimmers should be cheaper. Holofields may eventually be available for Serpents. Holofields should cost less than now.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I like it - partially.
Downgrading point costs is not enough to build a new codex.

There are three issues that hurt Eldar armies:
1. Random game length.
2. Weak troop (=scoring) units.
3. Skimmers got nerfed.

Ad 1. There should be a wargear that will give the Eldar army a higher chance to end the game if the Eldar players wants this.

Ad 2. An Autarch could name an Aspect Warrior unit (Elite or FA) that counts as scoring.

Ad 3. Energy fields should be available for Falcons and Prisms. Skimmers should be cheaper. Holofields may eventually be available for Serpents. Holofields should cost less than now.

Autarch could easily be give the ability to add(/minus) 1 to the roll for the end of game.

Like the Wraithlord with the support weapon options, have been advocating as much myself.

On the Banshees. What do you think of modifying Acrobatic to where the squad has a choice of shooting or assaulting after getting out of the Wave Serp?

Next, instead of dropping points every where make the Eldar worth every point they get and then decrease unit sizes from 10 to 8 to reflect the dying race fluff. Make them an elite army that really kicks tail.

I can agree with making the avatar a little closer to what a C'tan is profile wise.

Storm Guadians-Fix them by making their pistols double barreled. This could go up the ladder into the more aasault oriented Aspects which would keep you from having to tinker with their profiles as much.

War Walkers-Move war walkers to fast attack

Falc-Make the Falc a dedicated transport option for Farseer,Pheonix Lords, and maybe Harlequins. Then make its turret count as a single weapon for the purposes of firing. Still two weapons but count as one when determing defensive/offesive vs speed traveled(They are firing at the same point by the same gunner).

Bring back the crystal targeting matrix in a new form, It reduces cover saves by 2. The reason for this is that the old CTM rule destroyed game balance.

Pheonix Lords- drop down a little in price but allow for Taking one squad of their aspect type to be taken as a troop.

Give Hawks Plasma for everyone but limit squad size way down(This is just an idea)

I feel the largest squad Eldar should be able to field is 10 strong guardian squads(11 with Warlock).

Warlocks-Fix conceal(stealth USR) and Embolden makes squad stubborn

Farseers are pretty good. Just make one or two of their powers a little better. you know the ones.

Wraithguard are troops but if your taking them then its because your access to Aspects is severly limited. If you take them then you may only include one aspect warrior squad in the army.

Like the idea of warp spiders getting a blast or flame template weapon.

Aside from these not much else I can think of right now.

Well, the changes of point costs do not make all the difference.

Scorpions should have FoF.

Fire Dragons might lose FoF but should gain armor save 3+. This would make them more durable when they disembarked.

Storm Guardians should have WS 4.

Guardian Defenders should come with BS 4. This would cause severe changes since all vehicles would then be BS 4.

Warp Spiders should have 2 basic attacks.

Shining Spears should be reduced in pt costs and lances should count as power weapons.

Serpents should come with shuricannons and stones for 90 pts.

Harlies should be able to ride a Venom as in the old Harlequin codex from Gav Thorpe. A Venom should be able to carry a 6 men squad plus an IC. It should come with a twin-linked fusion gun or a shrieker cannon.

Vypers should be upgraded so that it counts as closed vehicles for a pt increase.

I dunno, eldar seem pretty fine to me. The whole double running, or jetpack move is ludicrous though ... eldar dont need anything like that.

The only thing id like to see is a somewhat higher chance of failing psychic powers .... its what? a 3% chance to fail a power with the 3d6 discard the highest? 20 games or so against eldar in the last few months and i havent seen a single guide doom or fortune fail, ive seen 2 perils of the warp both saved by ghost helm lol. Im not talking too huge, but mabye a 10% chance to fail a cast would be more reasonable to me.

Its just obnoxious having an entire army of bs3/4 with 80% being tl weapons even before guide and doom ... Be nice to have 1 turn where i didnt have to watch 20 dice rolls 5-6 misses rerolls 1 miss if im lucky, then the wounds same deal lol.

Its just obnoxious having an entire army of bs3/4 with 80% being tl weapons even before guide and doom ... Be nice to have 1 turn where i didnt have to watch 20 dice rolls 5-6 misses rerolls 1 miss if im lucky, then the wounds same deal lol.

That's right.
Guardians should have BS 3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mimes could bring some variety to the Eldar troop section:

Mime Troupe 12 pts per model
Mime: WS 4/ BS 3/ S 3/ T 3/ W 1/ I 5/ A 1/ Ld 8/ Sv 5+
Mimic: WS 5/ BS 4/ S 3/ T 3/ W 1/ I 6/ A 2/ Ld 9/ Sv 4+

Unit Size: 5-10 models
Unit Type: Infantry

Wargear: Shuriken pistol, close combat weapon, plasma grenades.

Special Rules: Fleet of Foot, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover, Stealth.

Options:

Up to two models may replace their shuriken pistols for fusion pistols or flamers; +6 pts per weapon.

Up to two models may replace their close combat weapon for Harlequin's kisses; +4 pts per kiss.

The whole unit, including the Mimic, may take haywire grenades for +1 pt per model.

Character: One unit member may be upgraded to a Mimic for +10 pts. The Mimic gives the unit the Counter-Attack universal special rule.

The Mimic may replace its close combat weapon for a Harlequin's kiss for +4 pts or a power weapon for +10 pts.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another Warlock power could be Misdirection given to the Harlequin's Shadowseer.

Any enemy unit that wishes to target or assault the shadowseer or a unit the shadowseer has joined, must take a leadership test. Failure means the unit must target or assault another unit.

This power would make even more sense if it could be combined with a power that temporarily reduces the leadership of an enemy unit.

.... god no .... no more psychic powers eldars are too good already.

Defensive powers for Warlocks are very useful for protection of an Eldar army.

yea defensive powers are cool, i would be happy with eldar getting new powers if it was paired with a inability to shoot guided troops at a doomed unit >.> Thats just so op lol 100% casualties almost every time

Well, you talk about Farseer powers while I'm talking about Warlock powers.

well yea, but im talking about in general, more powers for farseer and locks but no guide doom combos ...

Doom and guide is a nasty combo.
I'd delete runes of witnesses from the armory so that it will be harder to get two powers casted per turn.

I think some of your suggestions are good, and some of them not so good.

One possibility, Exarchs come with their powers included at a slightly reduced price.

All metal aspects are overdue for plastics, although the new Scorpions, Banshees and Fire Dragons are great models.

There are three main issues with the current Eldar codex:

1. Troops are rather weak and have a hard time to defend or hold a mission objective.

2. Random game lenght.

3. Eldar tanks are overpriced and get destroyed rather easily by hitting in the rear.

How to fix these issues?

1. The inclusion of an Autarch or PL in an army allows the player to nominate an Aspect Warrior unit to count as troop unit. For a PL, the troop unit must be from the same Aspect.

2. A Farseer should be able to forsee the end of a battle. Say on 4+ she can decide to either end or prolong a battle.

3. Serpents should cost 90 pts with stones and shuricannon. Falcons and Prisms should cost 115 pts with stones and underslung shuricannon. Falcons should have some kind of machine spirit so that they can fire an additional weapon if moved up to 12''.

What do you think?

Autarch -

Perhaps give the option for an autarch to choose their old aspect; 1 squad per autarch of that elite aspects become scoring, avengers can be repositioned at start of play (like Eldrad's ability), fast aspects become able to attempt to charge on arrival (like vanguard vets), reapers can be entrenched (like the teachmarine ability.) Limit the autarchs equipment selection to the aspect he is from, so no d00ds wielding reaper launchers, banshee masks and chainswords on the jetbike.

I LOVE the idea of letting autarchs add +/- 1 to determine whether the game ends, maybe only once per game though, so you can't use the ability on turn 5 and 6.This ability is lost if the autarch is dead!

Farseer

Nothing springs to mind

Avatar

Nothing springs to mind

Great Harlequin

Some form of HQ for harlequins would make me soil my underwear.

Phoenix Lords

Over-priced!

Harlequins

Should have the option to take jetbikes (I have 31 of the sweet metal jetbikes from around 1990 I want to use)

Death Jesters split off as a grey box - you can only buy them if you have a Harlie squad, but they are indep characters and do not witch towards your force org.

Wraithguard

Badly need something doing. Lower T, but FNP, perhaps?

Bring back Ghost Warriors!

Let them both have Bonesingers

Other elites

Main thing is to give them cheaper transport

Troops

Give troops craftworld-specific improvements, but make them come at a price, either high points, or with drawbacks too. Make it so you can only have one of the advantages per army, but one squad can take it and others don't have to apy for it. Don't specifically tie certain improvements to certain craftworlds, but make it obvious which is which.

Guardians with Furious Charge. (Ulthwe)

Guardian jetbikes with Furious charge. (Saim-Hann)

Guardians with stubborn/fearless or somesuch (Altansar)

Pathfinder option for rangers (Alaitoc)

Heavily armoured guardians, automatically upgrade warlocks to spiritseers. (Iyanden)

Improved wave serpents (Il-Kaithe)

Some cool option to make guardians more mime-ey. Perhaps give them a trainee shadowseer or just an automatic cover save, but no armour save

Fast Attack

A template for warp spiders

Heavy Support

Nothing springs to mind

Fifty wrote:
Wraithguard

Badly need something doing. Lower T, but FNP, perhaps?

Bring back Ghost Warriors!

Let them both have Bonesingers

Wraithguard fine as they are. Lowering their toughness would make me less likely to take them.

Basically, I think there should be lots more cool options than there currently are, but you should have to choose between them, not take them all.

Fifty, nice thoughts.
I'd love to get some more options for Harlequins such as a Greater Harlequin as an HQ, Death Jesters as Elite units, Mimes as pre-Harlequins with infiltrate or scout USR, Harlequins on jetbikes, and venoms as transports.

when I read the OP I thought "you are asking for to much" I have no real problem with the codex, every unit has it's uses.
to OP (and propobly some others), why should Farseers have 3+ invosave, that is what you have Eldrad for!

I do, as many others have pointed out, would like to see some plastic Wraithguard, new bikes. But still Jetbikes and Vypers are kinda the only choices I have not used since the 4th ed codex (actualy, never used jetbikes, maybe if Shining Spears counts, but still they are difrent from normal jetbikes).

Maybe if Vypers were at BS4, that BS3 is unreliable. This is actualy a unit I used frequently, but that was because they could have crystal targeting mechanism, which could be cried to be cheese and Tauish. "oh 3 brightlances/starcannons shooting then jumping back into cover....kaaaaay" - opponent.

Here are my stats for Autarchs, since these dudes have fought for millennia:

WS:7 BS:7 S:3 T:3(4) W:3 I:7 A:3 LD:10 SV:3+

And then Phoenix Lords go to this, since they are eternal.

WS:8 BS:8 S:4 T:4 I:8 A:4 LD:10 SV:2+/5++

And then the Avatar would be:

WS:10 BS:8 S:7 T:7 W:4 I:8 A:4 LD:10 SV:3+/4++

The Avatar is a freaking fragment of a God of War. It should get stats, and a point increase, to match. He should be epic, not a freaking wuss. Of course this dude would be like 500-700 points though.

In my opinion, all shooty Exarchs and Aspects should get -1WS and +1BS (Like Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons, etc. with respective points increase) and fighty Exarchs and Aspects should get +1WS and -1BS (Like Banshees, Striking Scorpions, etc. with point cost increases to match)

Shuriken weapons need to be better. It used to be that they were the best firearms you could get, now they are essentially just short ranged shotguns. Which is why they should be:

Shuriken Catapult
R18" Str 4 Ap 4 Assault 2, Shuriken*

Shuriken Pistol
R12" Str 4 Ap 4, Shuriken*, Pistol

Shuriken means that any 'To-Wound' rolls of 6 count as AP2

Guardians should get a point increase and get 4+ armor. They're a dying race, not a meat shield.

COR! An Eldar Wishlist demanding lower points, more power and of course the moon on a stick! Who'dve thunk it!

Vladsimpaler wrote:Here are my stats for Autarchs, since these dudes have fought for millennia:

WS:7 BS:7 S:3 T:3(4) W:3 I:7 A:3 LD:10 SV:3+

And then Phoenix Lords go to this, since they are eternal.

WS:8 BS:8 S:4 T:4 I:8 A:4 LD:10 SV:2+/5++

And then the Avatar would be:

WS:10 BS:8 S:7 T:7 W:4 I:8 A:4 LD:10 SV:3+/4++

The Avatar is a freaking fragment of a God of War. It should get stats, and a point increase, to match. He should be epic, not a freaking wuss. Of course this dude would be like 500-700 points though.


Shuriken Catapult
R18" Str 4 Ap 4 Assault 2, Shuriken*

Shuriken Pistol
R12" Str 4 Ap 4, Shuriken*, Pistol

Shuriken means that any 'To-Wound' rolls of 6 count as AP2

Guardians should get a point increase and get 4+ armor. They're a dying race, not a meat shield.

>___> dude... okay a bit for buffing the avatar, but still, it's a fragment. Hell the C'tans are better but they cost 300 & 360 points. But they do have tonage of rules. 500-700 points is unrealistic in 40k. He was more of a wuss in the 3rd ed, now he is atleast an option, which I (and propobly others) use. he is always in my 1500+ points lists.

That shuriken and guardian thing... no...just no. Not many people use Guardians nowadays anyway :S
And no, minor rending thing... no, that is just wishfull thinking.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:COR! An Eldar Wishlist demanding lower points, more power and of course the moon on a stick! Who'dve thunk it!

A few changes here and there to streamline the codex in the spirit of the 5th ed would be cool.
Nothing more.

Hey there, I added a load of your suggestions in the first thread to make it easier to read and changed some stuff.
Main question is how to make Craftworlds better (Special characters, army wide updates?)
How to implement Harlequins into the list
Making the Eldar a hit and run and specialist army (theme of the army).

Keep it coming boys!

Greets
Schepp himself

Okay if people think that the stuff I suggested is "op", the stuff would get point increases. Never did I suggest that points stay the same or get lower.

In any case, some other stuff:

If Wraithlords take the same weapon twice, it shouldn't get twin-linked. OR you could choose to have it twin-linked, but for half the price of a second one.

So you could have one scatter laser for 20, two scatter lasers at 40 points, or one twin linked scatter laser for 30 points. Just a suggestion.

I'd like to see Eldar being able to move d3" in the assault phase if they don't assault, like mini jetbikes. Would fit well with the whole "hit and run" theme.

This is what I would love to see

Guardian Squad
Model Size 6 to 12
Points : 6 points base
Same Stat Line
Change the Following.

May be mounted on Jetbikes +XX point per model. They lose the ability to take cc weapon and pistol if mounted.

May replace Shuriken Catapult with Combat Blade and Shuriken pistol.

Per 4 Models in the squad may take one of the following items.

Fusion Gun
Flamer
Shuriken Cannon ( only if mounted on jetbike)

If not mounted on jetbikes per 6 models 2 models may form a H. Support Weapons Team with AntiGrav platform

D Cannon
ShadowWeaver
Bright Lance
Scatter Laser
Star Cannon
Eldar Missile Launcher
Shuriken Cannon

May be joined by a Warlock for 25 points.

If not mounted on Jetbikes may purchase a Wave Serpent as a Dedicated Transport.

The Guardians are suppose to be the backbone of the Eldar Army hands down.

It should be a generalist unit that can be customized to perform multiple roles.

Also, it represents that the eldar do not have any problem with obtaining specialist weapons.

Their kind of a dime a dozen their a advanced civilization compared to the imperium they have no problem manufacturing special weapons.

Plastic Wraithguard, small rule tweaks, and possibly support weapons on other platforms (Didn't D-Cannons used to go on Wraithlords too?)
Most of the suggestions here are ridiculously overpowered

Per 4 Models in the squad may take one of the following items.

Fusion Gun
Flamer
Shuriken Cannon ( only if mounted on jetbike)

Overpowered.
One special weapon as per 5 models.

Assault Vehicles!

Maybe make the HQs more substantial for small point increase, and slightly decrease costs of troops options.

Narrow Swooping Hawks into a smaller more effective combat role.

The Eldar HQ's (Farseer, Autarch) are fine.

The PL's are overpriced for what they can achieve at the battle field. They are a bit too one-dimensional.

wuestenfux wrote:The Eldar HQ's (Farseer, Autarch) are fine.

The PL's are overpriced for what they can achieve at the battle field. They are a bit too one-dimensional.

They'd be nice if they could draw power from the rest of the falcon ... for example

Divert power. During the movement phase before moving the falcon it can be declared that the falcon will divert power from the engines to the weapons. For the rest of this turn the falcon does not count as being fast or a skimmer. In exchange the falcon gets 5 Energy points which may be spent to improve the shots from the Plus laser .

The following each cost one point and may be taken multiple times
+1 to strength of the shot
-1 to the AP of the shot
+1 to number shots
One of the following my also be take at the cost listed
Blast for 5Epts
Melta for 5Epts
Lance for 3Epts
Rending for 3Epts
Pinning for 1Epts

.... may be that's a bit overpowered .... add to that ....

If all energy points are spent then there is a chance the power will over load the system before firing Roll a D6 on a 1 the falcon takes a penetrating hit (so long as what's rolled doesn't prevent shooting the tank may still fire)

...Also just a question but since Tau first came out I've wonder why guardians can't fire their platforms from inside a transport surely it could float along out side? It's the kind of fluffy rule that would make defenders a tiny bit better.

Divert power is an interesting concept.
Another more common upgrade for the Falcon would be machine spirit as for the loyal Land Raiders.
This would allow the Falcon to shoot two offensive weapons while moving 12'', and one weapon if moving over 12''

wuestenfux wrote:Divert power is an interesting concept.
Another more common upgrade for the Falcon would be machine spirit as for the loyal Land Raiders.
This would allow the Falcon to shoot two offensive weapons while moving 12'', and one weapon if moving over 12''

As cool as that would be, and as much as I'd like that I don't see it happening. GW like to keep a difference between Imperials and every one else. It's far more likely we get an army wide special rule which states that Str6 weapons and less count as defensive weapons.

Tri wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Divert power is an interesting concept.
Another more common upgrade for the Falcon would be machine spirit as for the loyal Land Raiders.
This would allow the Falcon to shoot two offensive weapons while moving 12'', and one weapon if moving over 12''

As cool as that would be, and as much as I'd like that I don't see it happening. GW like to keep a difference between Imperials and every one else. It's far more likely we get an army wide special rule which states that Str6 weapons and less count as defensive weapons.

I don't think that GW wants to overwrite a universal rule (defensive weapons are S6 or less) for Eldar.
GW wanted tanks to be pillboxes in this edition.
An exception are the emperial Land Raiders as they have machine spirit.

The point costs for Falcons should either be decreased or they should be able to use their weaponry more effectively.

IMO, I think Fire Dragons should have a 3 + save. And the Fire Dragon's Fusion Guns should be increased to 18 Inches.

With a 4+ Armor Save and only 12 Inches for the Fusion Guns. They should atlease get that 3+ save or Range increase.

StrixStruma wrote:IMO, I think Fire Dragons should have a 3 + save. And the Fire Dragon's Fusion Guns should be increased to 18 Inches.

With a 4+ Armor Save and only 12 Inches for the Fusion Guns. They should atlease get that 3+ save or Range increase.

I think that a 3+ armor save would be fine.
They could take away FoF to compensate for the heavier armor.

Does anyone else think that Guardians should get a 4+ save so that they're not useless fodder? Or at least +1 BS if they're a Defender or +1 WS if a Storm Guardian?

Swooping Hawks to me are the most troubling Aspect. What are they? Anti-light infantry? Anti-tank?


Swooping Hawk-WS:4 BS:4 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:5 A:1 LD:9 SV:4+
Exarch- WS:5 BS:5 S:3 T:3 W:1 I:6 A:2 LD:10 SV:3+

Weapons: Lasblaster. R24" Str 3 Ap 5 Assault 2

Wargear:

Swooping Hawk Wings. (Jump Pack, enemies trying to hit in CC get -1 to hit, has Hit and Run)

Exarch can take:
Sunrifle, R24" Str 3 Ap5 Assault 6, Pinning

Hawk's Talon R24" Str 5 Ap 5 Assault 3, Models or groups of models wounded by the Hawk's Talon count next turn as moving in Difficult Terrain. If they are already in difficult terrain, they roll 2 dice for movement and choose the lowest.

Special Rules:
Fleet of Foot.

Because the Swooping Hawks are without a doubt the most agile of the Eldar, they gain a 6+ invulnerable save (hard to hit) and may take both their normal saving throw and this invulnerable save.
-----

So what am I trying to do here? Yes it's going to be unpopular and to confess I'm not totally happy with it either. I'm going for a guerilla sort of Aspect, and that's what I think they should be. The Swooping Hawks should just be all about whittling your enemy down.

And I always thought that they should be harder to hit in CC. They're a pretty easy Aspect to shoot down, but I thought that for being so dang agile the Swooping Hawks should be harder to hit from shooting.

Perhaps one of the Exarch powers could be "Evasive Maneuvers- For the rest of the turn, the Swooping Hawks and Exarch get +3 to their invulnerable save but they may not fire or enter assault and conversely cannot be assaulted."

So if your guys are in a really tight spot, you do this and then they have a 3+ invulnerable save. However the trade off is that they can't shoot and for a shooty aspect that's a bit deal. However it goes with the theme of Eldar survival.

In that line, here is another idea.

Give SH no armor save, and have the Swooping hawk wings confer a 4+ cover save.

lasblaster: S6 Ap6 R24" Assault 1, Lance

Aerial assault: In a turn in which the Swooping Hawk squad has deepstriked, cover saves may not be taken against wounds inflicted by the swooping hawks squad.

Master of the Skies: Swooping Hawks ignore cover saves conferred by turbo boosting or skimmers moving Flat Out.



Grenade pack and skyleap, as before.


Just another idea for SH. S6 makes them slightly redundant with other units in the codex (there seems to be a plethora of S6), but it makes them into light vehicle hunters, and they can still glace av12+. Strikes me actually that aerial assault doesn't matter much since their guns are ap6. but whatev.

Does anyone else think that Guardians should get a 4+ save so that they're not useless fodder? Or at least +1 BS if they're a Defender or +1 WS if a Storm Guardian?

After all, Guardians are poets and philosophers and should get what they deserve: weak armor and low BS and WS skills.

wuestenfux wrote:

Does anyone else think that Guardians should get a 4+ save so that they're not useless fodder? Or at least +1 BS if they're a Defender or +1 WS if a Storm Guardian?

After all, Guardians are poets and philosophers and should get what they deserve: weak armor and low BS and WS skills.

So maybe the WS and BS boosts don't make sense. But then why send off poets and philosophers to their deaths? Makes no sense to me. And technically their BS is quite good, the problem is too many high BS units make them look bad when MEQ is as common as, well, air.

@ Gwyidion- I'm not a fan of the Str 6 only because then they're just a long range Warp Spiders. I want to make them something else entirely.

Well, Guardians are sent to war in a moment of great despair.
After all, they are foremost used as crews for the tanks and transports.
Guardians are perfectly fine as they are.

@Vladsimpaler and Gwyidion:
Nice ideas for the Swooping hawks, I like the guerrilla-type aspect of the rules. Slowing down units and vehicles. Way better than my initial idea, imo.

Greets
Schepp himself

Well, fast attack units gain more and more less attention in the 5th edition since troops are scoring only,
and elite and HS units are generally better suited to achieve mission goals.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, fast attack units gain more and more less attention in the 5th edition since troops are scoring only,
and elite and HS units are generally better suited to achieve mission goals.

Which is why war walkers should be fast and vypers should be part of jetbike troop choice

Tri wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Well, fast attack units gain more and more less attention in the 5th edition since troops are scoring only,
and elite and HS units are generally better suited to achieve mission goals.

Which is why war walkers should be fast and vypers should be part of jetbike troop choice

The option to include Warwalkers as FA would open a new avenue
1. building a mech Eldar army consisting of fast moving (skimmers) and static (WW's) elements, or
2. building a footslogging army consisting of WW's and WL's.

In terms of Vyers, one may think about forming a squadron with Jetbikes, similar to RW Bikers that are able to include a Tornado and an Attack Bike.

wuestenfux wrote: In terms of Vyers, one may think about forming a squadron with Jetbikes, similar to RW Bikers that are able to include a Tornado and an Attack Bike.

That is a nice idea!

Edited some stuff in, especially more options for the autarch so he can join specialists squads more easily and buff a certain aspect of the army.

Please note changes to the hawks and additional exarch power for dark reapers.

Greets
Schepp himself

Autarch:

- Increasing Initiative from 6 to 7
- Option for Shimmershield (5++ save in cc for his squad)
- Once per game, you can ask to reroll the die if the game ends.
- 10 point decrease
- Option for Ranger long rifle. 10 points
- Options for fast shot, crack shot, tank hunter, withdraw, defend, acrobatic, shadowstrike, stealth, intercept or skyleap for 10 points each (not transferred to squad)

Rangers are not Aspect Warriors. They follow a different path of life.
Therefore, I'd drop the option to take a long rifle.

I suggest that the Autarch can choose up to 2 Exarch powers for free and these powers confer to the Aspect unit he joined whenever possible.
Well, stealth should confer to Scorpions as they can have an Exarch with stealth, but not to Fire Dragons since their Exarchs cannot have stealth.

In case it's not been said, Phoenix Lords make their aspect troops. The Striking Scorpions will then be known as Raping scorpions.

Schepp himself wrote:- New psychic power: Target vehicle or unit in 12", unit or vehicle is thrown back 2d6 inch in a straight line from the seer. Vehicles get a glancing hit, units go to ground, resolve ramming and tank shocks for units in the way for the vehicle (I hope I made it somewhat clear)

OMG FORCE PUSH!!!!

- differentiating the shuriken cannon and the scatter laser

I know this will sound odd but couldn't Shuriken Cannon get Lancing? after all we are talking about thousands of little wafer thin bits of metal being shot at the target you might get lucky and roll a 6 and stun the crew on LR ... Wouldn't require any change to the points value ether as its a bit of a long shot (23% chance of glancing from 3 shots)

From a wishlisting point of view, i would like the autarch powers to be conveyed to any squad he joins. from a balance PoV, that would be broken, because I can already see taking a shimmer/defend/stealth autarch to attach to my wraithguard.

They would then be 10 T6 models with a 4+ conceal cover save, a 5+ invuln in CC, and defend. Not to mention the autarch would also have mandi + power weapon. would run about 600 points, including the autarch and the farseer, but it would be a beast - especially if the wraithguard got the suggested range increase to 18"

They would then be 10 T6 models with a 4+ conceal cover save, a 5+ invuln in CC, and defend. Not to mention the autarch would also have mandi + power weapon. would run about 600 points, including the autarch and the farseer, but it would be a beast - especially if the wraithguard got the suggested range increase to 18"

This would make Wraithguard a unit to consider in competitive games. Ouch!

wuestenfux wrote:

They would then be 10 T6 models with a 4+ conceal cover save, a 5+ invuln in CC, and defend. Not to mention the autarch would also have mandi + power weapon. would run about 600 points, including the autarch and the farseer, but it would be a beast - especially if the wraithguard got the suggested range increase to 18"

This would make Wraithguard a unit to consider in competitive games. Ouch!

Obviously, this would lead to broken choices, so I stated that powers of the autarch would not benefit the squad he joins. It should help the autarch to join squads and still be able to use their special abilities, however.

From a fluff point of view you can justify all these powers with his path. He is supposed to have experience with almost all (if not all) aspects so i can imagine he has learned quite a few tricks over the years.

Greets
Schepp himself

After all, the Autarch should be superior to an Exarch, some kind of exalted Exarch.
Thus the Autarch should be able to take Exarch powers.

no, exarchs are proffesionals at their aspect, whereas the Autarch was only a aspect warrior who didnt fit. so he has had the training, and has access to the equipment but he was never an exarch.

because he has been tried in each aspect he is a tactical GENIUS.

Elegost

Any ideas for the introduction of Craftworlds?

Iyanden:
- Wraithguard as troops
- Wraithlords as HS and elites
- Dire Avengers as elites

Alaitoc:
- Ranger upgrade to Pathfinder for free
- disruption table: opponent rolls D3 for each of his units after deployment prior to the start:
-- 1: unit makes pinning test,
-- 2: unit moves 6'' in a direction given by the Alaitoc player,
-- 3: unit gets shot by the closest Pathfinder unit, all restrictions apply: line of sight, range.

Biel Tan:
- one Aspect Shrine (besides Dire Avengers) becomes troops
- the PL corresponding to the Aspect Shrine becoming troops costs 130 pt

Saim Hann:
- Vypers as troops
- Jetbikes become cheaper by 5 pt, also for Warlocks and Farseers.
- Falcons become FA
- squadrons consisting of Guardian Jetbikes and Vypers; one Vyper for every three Jetbikes.

Ulthwe:
- Warlocks get cheaper by 5 pt.
- Farseer powers get cheaper by 5 pt.
- Farseers cannot use jetbikes.
- Serpents get cheaper by 10 pt.
- Dire Avengers as elites
- Guardian Defenders have BS 4
- Storm Guardians get WS 4
- Warlock power augment that increases the range of a Farseer power by 12''; however, the Warlock must pass an LD check.

For Ulthwe - warlocks cannot use jetbikes - to avoid everyone and their brother taking a cheap seer council with a fortuneseer somewhere else in the army. Also, augment requires a psychic test (which is a leadership test, but can be nullified by hood).
Iyanden is my fav. craftworld, so....
Iyanden - Lords get FNP (doesn't actually matter that much, as most ways people deal with wraithlords include rending or really big guns). Also can swap both weapon options for a D-cannon.
All warlocks get the spiritseer upgrade for free.

Wraithguard get an optional storm-guardian-esque loadout. heavy flamer+power weapon, and shuriken catapult, with eldar version of true grit (i just like them using a catapult as a pistol, a shuriken pistol works fine).

Serpents get a 15 point increase in cost.

HQ choice of Iyanna Arienal can be taken, but requires the purchase of a 2nd HQ choice, her wraithlord companion.
She is a farseer who can cast 3 powers a turn, doesn't have eldrad's extra toughness, does have fleet (whoop de doo) and has a 18" spiritseer bubble. maybe gets a cool iyanden power (maybe wraith of asuryan - comes right off the iyanden fluff page - an upgraded form of eldritch storm, with rules to specify it explicitly does not scatter). comes standard with all of the farseer powers - 200 pts (15 points cheaper than eldrad, wherever he gets adjusted to).
wraithlord companion:
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
5 5 10 8 3 5 3 10 2+
Doesn't suffer from wraithsight.

can't think of any other special abilities for the wraithlord - maybe he can't ever end a movement phase more than 12" from Iyanna - or vice versa.

Another idea for wraithlords for iyanden, been suggested before, - wraithlords selected in elite slots may be upgraded to a specific aspect.
DA: 2x shuricannons - non twin linked. (normal weapon selection still twin links duplicates)
S. Scorp: Infiltrate, Mandiblasters (+2 A), 2+ armor cannot take any weapons above Str 6 (so, scatter/shuri cannon only)
H. Banshee: Fleet, 2x Wraithswords, twin linking CC attacks and adding an extra attack. (maybe not fleet... but it would be very cool)
Swooping hawks: 2x scatter lasers (non twin linked), swooping hawk grenade pack which it can fire every turn with a range of 24" - in addition to its lasers.
Dark Reaper: Tempest launcher and reaper launcher, mayyybe crack shot.
Fire Dragons: 2x firepikes, non twin linked. Tank hunters, 2+ armor.
warp spiders: twin linked shadow-weaver support weapon, Deep Strike

wraithlords taken in HS slots may be fielded in squads of 1-3, if taken in squads of 2 or more, an accompanying spiritseer may be taken. This warlock may not take conceal.

All normal elites/aspect are 0-1 per type.
Fire prism 0-1
Falcon 0-2
W. Serpent 0-2
Can't take eldrad
Can't take a seer council


add more later.

edit: I realized that the limit to 0-1 per aspect isn't that much of a nerf, since most people don't take more than one of any aspect, except for perhaps warp spiders, fire dragons, and dire avengers, so instead of 0-1 per type, limit the entire army to two squads of aspect warriors.

Well, looks quite interesting but some points need more clarification.

add more later.

Yeah. Maybe we can come up with something more substantial.

The aspect upgrade should cost more than the normal weapon upgrades, as they come non-twin linked, and with powers to boot.

Currently, the wraithlord profile is:
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 4 10 8 3 4 2 10 3+

@ 90 points.
BL =40
starcannon = 30
scatter = 20
S. cannon = 10
EML = 25
wraithsword = 10

buying an identical weapon costs the same pts, but combines to one twin linked weapon - can't take 2x swords.

So, the aspect upgrades represent a significant increase in power over the current, run of the mill wraithlords. (except, i just realized, there is currently no way to infiltrate a warlock, so the scorpion infiltrate power is sort of useless). Especially the banshee fleet, and any upgrade which allows 2x non twin linked - these upgrades should cost at least as much as buying the two weapons for the price listed in the current codex (i.e., for the DA upgrade, the upgrade should cost more than 110 points, because it is better than a twin linked shuricannon.

DA: pretty basic upgrade, a medium range anti-horde/meq (will get 5-6 wounds a turn on T4 or less at 24"), 130 pts.

S. Scorp. Drop the infiltrate - can't really be used. Also can't add 1 str, as it is already 10. +2 A and 2+ armor is enough. This guy is pretty damn tough in combat, but still suffers from the same problems as it did before - 4 ws 4 attacks, no invuln save - 140 pts. (Edit: perhaps Iyanna special ability could be negating all wraithsight checks for the entire army while she is alive - this could free up these lords to infiltrate)

Banshee - Fleet, 3 WS 4 attacks with rerolls, and I should have added +1 initiative. It seems to me that if people want a CC lord, this is what they'll take. Not as many attacks as the scorpion WL, but has I5, which means it goes before a whole lot of units. Hits slightly more often than the scorpion upgrade, because of rerolls, and hits before the scorpion will. not as good of an armor save, but that doesn't matter much, because most weapons which can wound it (executioners, powerfists, rending) ignore armor saves anyway. The big deal is the fleet and normal MC move through cover - this guy can run through a forest and smash a tank without too much trouble. 150-160 pts.

S. hawks - the DA upgrade, only better. add in the third large blast weapon and its a anti-horde powerhouse, even though it still has to target the same unit, that is a ton of wounds it can pour out (in case it wasn't clear, this upgrade can fire all three weapons a turn - that is a lot of wounds) 150 pts.

Reaper - if it has crack shot, this can put out a large amount of ap3 fire. add in the ability to take either 2x unlinked tempest launchers or reaper launchers. Add in the normal mobility of a MC, and its scary for any meq army. This will probably down about 4 MEQ a turn. 140-145 pts. The hawk upgrade is more versatile, and I can see people taking the hawk upgrade over the reaper, as the meta has certainly shifted to forcing many saves as opposed to denying saves.

F. Dragons - two firepikes, tank hunter, and heavier armor. Given how hard it is to down a WL, this guy is going to kill tanks, period. In a fairly short ranged, and slow army, this will be a nice alternative to the normal BL/EML wraithlord - shorter range, but much more potent. If it hits, its almost certainly going to take out the tank (and it should hit once a turn). 160 pts.

Warp spiders. This one sucks. two s6 blast templates with deep strike. If anyone has a better idea, i'm all for it. 100 pts.

-- Get rids of Holofields entirely. Reduce the cost of Falcon platforms slightly and increase their carrying capacity.

-- Decrease the cost of basic Troops by a little and give them more shooting options -- maybe a completely new type of gun so as to make them different from the Imperium.

-- I just thought of this so it might be stupid but how about a psychic power that will let the target unit ignore the "can't assault when you jump out of a vehicle" rule? Like a giant blast of light spews from them or time warps when they hop out. It would suit their fluff and playstyle.

Lol @ all you Eldar players demanding a new codex.

I doute it's going to happen anytime soon,my guess is 1014 when eldar get a new dex.

Unless your names "space marine" which it isn't.

Farmer wrote:Lol @ all you Eldar players demanding a new codex.

I doute it's going to happen anytime soon,my guess is 1014 when eldar get a new dex.

Unless your names "space marine" which it isn't.

This is not going to stop us thinking about a new codex.

Craftworld update:

Iyanden:
• Wraith Guard are troops
• Wraith Lords can be taken as elite; elite Wraith Lords are equipped with either two shuricats or one shuricat and one flamer or two flamers; elite Wraith Lords must take a scatter laser for +20 points, a shuriken cannon for +10 points or a wraith sword for +10 points; elite Wraith Lords can have a second scatter laser for +20 points or a second shuriken cannon for +10 points
• Warlocks can be upgraded to Spirit Seers for free
• Dire Avengers are elite
• Iyanna Arienal ?
Ulthwe:
• Far Seers and Warlocks cannot take jet bikes
• Far Seers and Warlocks can replace their witch blades by spears for free
• Warlocks are 5 points cheaper than normal
• Warlock power augment costs 10 points and increases the range of each ranged Far Seer psychic power by 12’’; to use this power, the Warlock has to pass a psychic test
• Guardian Defenders have BS 4
• Storm Guardians have WS 4
• Dire Avengers are elite
Alaitoc:
• Rangers can be upgraded to Pathfinders for free
• Disruption table: roll D3 for each enemy unit after deployment:
o 1: unit makes pinning test
o 2: unit can be moved 6’’ in any direction by the Alaitoc player; the unit may even be moved into difficult or dangerous terrain
o 3: unit gets shot by the closest Pathfinder unit; the normal shooting rules apply
Saim Hann:
• Guardian Jet Bikers cost 18 points
• Jet bikes for Far Seers or Warlocks are 5 points cheaper than normal
• Jet bikes have built-in skilled rider
• Dire Avengers are elite
• Shining Spears are troops
• Wild Chief Rider ?
Biel Tan:
• For each Autarch included in the army, an Aspect Shrine other than Dire Avengers can be taken as troops
• Storm Guardians, Guardian Defenders, and Guardian Jet Bikers are elites
Lugganath:
• Greater Harlequin as HQ
• Harlequins are troops
• Harlequin Jet Bikers:
o Unit type: jet bike, fast attack, 45 points per model
o Unit size: 3-10 models
o Equipment: jet bikes have twin-linked shuricats, Harlequins have shuriken pistols and cc weapons
o Options: each model can replace its cc weapon with a kiss by 4+ points; up to two models can substitute their shuriken pistols by fusion guns by +10 points.
o Squad leader: one model can be upgraded to a Master Mime by +20 points; the Master Mime is equipped with a power weapon and a shuriken pistol; the power weapon can be replaced by a kiss for free.
o Stats: same as Harlequins resp. Master Mime; 3+ armor save.

I'm kinda new to this so I'm not sure about everything, but I'm really all for cheaper transports or at least give us more for the points we invest.

Only issue I have is with the saim hann, can see people taking seer councils all the time with them. Somehow nerf the jet-council with saim, and upgrade the shining spears as troops.

After reading through the new Space Wolves codex i think the generic Farseers and Autarch should each take up half a HQ choice.

This would make farseers a better choice over Eldrad as you could take a pair (or 3 or 4 even) without adding special rules or making Eldrad more expensive.

Just a though any way ...

I dunno, but it certainly seems that wargear that simply nullifies psychic powers is proliferating. Using any list which relies on a farseer (DA serpent + doom spam, fortune/wraithwall, MC-eldrad (dual fortune) spam) is basically going to fail against newer and newer codecies, especially SW with their 3+ psychic hoods (or whatever they are in the codex). If powers are negated 66% of the time, that is just brutal. Maybe farseers should have a defense against psychic defenses.

It really ticks me off that the eldar aren't the best psykers anymore.

If the newer codecies are all going to emphasize using heroes to customize the army, then I could see warlock ICs, one or two more farseers (eldrad, Iyanna, etc) the PLs being better costed and more effective, plus adding more interesting army-wide abilities (if we don't get craftworlds back, but that would be cool as well).

From not playing Eldar but having played them / read / learned about them I think I would like to see:

Eldar being able to fleet and still shoot.

Exodites.

A retinue for the Exarch consisting of different aspect "exarches" or just aspect warriors.

I agree most of the suggestions would make the Eldar way to OTT.

The biggest issue I have with the codex right now is the heavy support weapons platforms i see no use in them.

Shinning spears= ive used them several times and IMHO they cost too much for their potential which is almost always never fulfilled

warwalkers= ive never understood why they never were Fast attack yeah i know how much firepower they have but maybe finding a way to tone them down and moving them to FA

autarch= ive never understood what they were for in a normal game of 40k i can see there value in apoc but not in a normal game. i agree granting an ability to an attached squad would make him worth taking over a seer

plastic moderately priced wraithguard would be a godsend

a new aspect warrior type would be so awesome

a conversion bits set for making falcons into serpents would be extremely appreciated

all my expressed opinions are based on my own experinced and i consider myself an experinced player (look at my sig)

Good for you, you win a lot.

Eldar were, and should be, OTT. Not necessarily in the S and T department, but in the WS, BS, and I departments.

That's why I feel like a lot of stuff should get boosts.

Like WS5 and BS3 Howling Banshees.

So Shooty aspects get -1 WS and +1 BS, close combat aspects get +1 WS and -1 BS.

Vladsimpaler wrote:Good for you, you win a lot.

Eldar were, and should be, OTT. Not necessarily in the S and T department, but in the WS, BS, and I departments.

That's why I feel like a lot of stuff should get boosts.

Like WS5 and BS3 Howling Banshees.

So Shooty aspects get -1 WS and +1 BS, close combat aspects get +1 WS and -1 BS.

Yeah, Aspects should be trained in what they can do best.
Here increased or decreased stats would be natural.

So maybe killing of the two attack thing for banshees, scorpions and shining spears and better give them a higher WS?

If I look at the space wolf codex, i think that eldar could get that specialist treatment. I mean, if space marines can have the best outflankers in the galaxy and their heavies can split fire, eldar can have some equally nasty aces up their sleeves...

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S. Interesting idea with the Wraithlord aspects. Seems a bit complicated though.

P.P.S. Thoughts on special characters for craftworld specific armies? Yriel for Iyaden for example? Wuestenfux? I like your suggestions btw.

So maybe killing of the two attack thing for banshees, scorpions and shining spears and better give them a higher WS?

Higher WS and lower BS.

P.S. Interesting idea with the Wraithlord aspects. Seems a bit complicated though.

I'd consider Wraithlords (with limited wargear) as elite in an Iyanden army.

I reckon assault aspects should be WS5 and BS3, same points. Also, I reckon farseers are underdone at the moment. They are useful, but Eldar are the most powerful psykers in the universe! Eldar spells should be somewhat like the ones in the Space Wolves rumours, in a word, awesome. Farseers should inspire terror when placed upon a tabletop, as opposed to minor annoyance and your opponent thinking 'Oh no, what is he up to.'

wuestenfux wrote:

So maybe killing of the two attack thing for banshees, scorpions and shining spears and better give them a higher WS?

Higher WS and lower BS.

P.S. Interesting idea with the Wraithlord aspects. Seems a bit complicated though.

I'd consider Wraithlords (with limited wargear) as elite in an Iyanden army.

Wraith lords come with 2 flamer or 2 s.catapults. can be take as elites. They may also be taken as heavy support and must take at least one heavy weapon. (while at it) Any weapon (including flamer or s.catapults.) may be TL at an additional cost of 20pts.

(Special rule) We are Legion:
Since all Wraith are a mixture of eldar spirit the Wraith Lord is capable of coordinating its shooting at multiple targets. In addition the wraith lord may charge at any one within range whether or not they've been targeted in the shooting phase.

Moreover, a Iyanden army should allow to upgrade Warlocks to Spiritseers for free.
A Farseer in an Iyanden army should be mandatory, with all those wraith sight models.

I don't think the we are legion rule is 100% fluffy. my understanding is that a single eldar spirit stone animates a wraithguard, and the wraithlords are animated by a spirit stone of someone heroic, like an autarch or a exarch.

I thought maybe iyanden could field wraithguard as aspects - like, iyanden took all their dead banshees and put them in wraithbone constructs.... but then i realized how amazing that would be.

s5, t6, i5 3+ sv.... 2 attacks each with power weapons?

It seems like to make iyanden really fluffy it needs an expansion of the normal wraithguard/lord roles, but everytime i try to come up with rules for it, it just seems so broken its silly - dark reaper wraithgaurd?

I still like the idea of a wraithlord with a d-cannon though.

Gwyidion wrote:I don't think the we are legion rule is 100% fluffy. my understanding is that a single eldar spirit stone animates a wraithguard, and the wraithlords are animated by a spirit stone of someone heroic, like an autarch or a exarch.

Just to point out that they do all ready have items powered by spirits and they're not always singular

Wraithblade: A wraithblade has sentience unto itself and guides the wielders blows. It allows the Wraithlord to re-roll failed rolls to hit in close combat

Diresword: These weapons incorporate a spirit stone in the hilt that can sear the mind of the target...

Spirit Stones: The vehicle incorporates a large spirt stone. The essence within it can control the vehicle for short periods of time should the crew be disabled ...

Exarchs ....An Exarch wears an elaborate and often ancient version of the ritual Aspect Warrior armour. He boosts his already superhuman abilities with arcane wargear and wears upon his suit the spirt stone that contains the departed spirits of all the suit's past Exarches ...

I haven't been into 40k very long but I think that these changes would be awesome.

Vypers:
Jetbike, no upgrades other than weapon, count as the third jetbike in a jetbike squad.

Swooping Hawks:
20 points, lasguns S4 AP6 R24

Autarch:
Whichever unit of aspect warriors he joins becomes scoring while he is alive and with the unit

Shining Spears:
3-10 max unit size, exarch may take a bright lance

Defender Guardians:
4+ save, heavy weapon for every 5 guardians, 10 points a model

Farseer:
Must join the seer council if the seer council is taken, may take 1 warlock power at twice the cost

Warlocks:
Should have a warlock independent character that can take 1-3 warlock powers, 45 points base,
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W2, I 4 LD9, SV 4+ inv,
may take 1-2 per HQ slot, options like normal warlock

Seercouncil:
limit 0-1 seer councils

I think that Autarch should be great for buffing aspect warriors, farseer for buffing everything, and warlock lords for buffing aspects and guardians.

Kleldar wrote:
snip

I have trouble agreeing with some of those changes.

Shining spears - making the exarch be able to take a bright lance won't fix this unit. primarily, their problem is that they get shot up too easily, and they can't stay more than one round in CC (because the second round they become s3 non power weapon pansies) I'd say drop them to 30pts/model, exchange their lances with executioners, now its a 300 pt 10 man unit with s5 power weapons. Nice and expensive and hard hitting, but not super tough. It might be too good, but its a change worth talking about.

D. Guardians - no. these guys need a point drop, and a buff, if anything. right now they are the worst troop choice going. drop to 7 points, squad size 10-20, 1 platform for every 6 guardians, warlock options remain the same.

Farseer - rework the psyker powers, but no warlock powers.

If warlocks have a IC HQ choice, he should have at least I5 (being more warlike than the farseer but not so much as the autarch), 2 attacks base, and 3 wounds. Prob WS/BS 5 too. Limit to 2 warlock powers, because they get them without psychic tests.

Shining spears - making the exarch be able to take a bright lance won't fix this unit. primarily, their problem is that they get shot up too easily, and they can't stay more than one round in CC (because the second round they become s3 non power weapon pansies) I'd say drop them to 30pts/model, exchange their lances with executioners, now its a 300 pt 10 man unit with s5 power weapons. Nice and expensive and hard hitting, but not super tough. It might be too good, but its a change worth talking about.

Well, one improvement could be that the enemy has to use night fight rule to target a unit of Shining Spears.

Farseer - rework the psyker powers, but no warlock powers.

Agreed.

D. Guardians - no. these guys need a point drop, and a buff, if anything. right now they are the worst troop choice going. drop to 7 points, squad size 10-20, 1 platform for every 6 guardians, warlock options remain the same.

Yeah, these guys need a buff and having multiple platforms in the squad seems reasonable.

Defender Guardians I think need something that makes them a decent troop choice.

Something like 4+ amour save, heavy weapon for every 5 guardians, 5-20 man squad, change in point cost

Kleldar wrote:Defender Guardians I think need something that makes them a decent troop choice.

Something like 4+ amour save, heavy weapon for every 5 guardians, 5-20 man squad, change in point cost

+1BS for defenders and +1 WS for storms. Then they'd be a bit more use full

I think that the Farseer could get an upgrade that lets him use the line of sight of warlocks for his pysker powers.

Here's an idea for a farseer power - call it, i don't know, 'focus' or something.

fluffy stuff:
The farseer clears the minds of his fellow eldar, allowing them to fight with cold rationality and poise.


Farseer targets a friendly squad within 18", that squad may choose to pass or fail any leadership tests it takes until the start of the next eldar turn. Also, this squad may not have any characteristic negatively affected by the opponent, in any way at all.
(come to think of it, this is a really good power for seer councils, as some armies rely on reducing leadership then pinning)


and because apparently space wolves are the most powerful psykers in the galaxy, all eldar farseers have wargear allowing them to cast 3 powers a turn. eldrad gets 4.

change mind war to 24" (its 18 now, isn't it?) and do no require line of sight, and explicitly deny cover and armor saves, invulnerable save may be taken as normal.

Eldritch storm - specify it does not scatter, explicitly. S4 ap6 large blast pinning. 4+2d6 against vehicles, the player controlling the farseer determines facing always.


Guide - all friendly units within 6, not one unit within 6.


And i guess to incorporate warlocks, all farseer powers that target or affect a friendly unit (such as fortune, guide, and focus) may target a unit at any range if that unit includes a warlock.

Tri wrote:

Kleldar wrote:Defender Guardians I think need something that makes them a decent troop choice.

Something like 4+ amour save, heavy weapon for every 5 guardians, 5-20 man squad, change in point cost

+1BS for defenders and +1 WS for storms. Then they'd be a bit more use full

Black Guardians of Ulthwe have those stats.
They are a bit more trained than normal Guardians, eh Poets and Philosophers.

Guardians should be made cheaper or their weapon choices should be made better.
As said, one platform for each 5 Guardians would be a decent way to improve them.

Is the craftworld codex still legal???

Kleldar wrote:Is the craftworld codex still legal???

No it isn't. Its a shame.

When looking at guardians you have to remember the poets, artisans and so on are specificly stated to be trained to act as an army when needed hence the WS/BS equivalent to an IG where most untrained units come in at a score of 2 not 3. The exception to this was Ulthwe whos entry in the craftworld codex allowed for a WS or BS increase to represent them being more trained/experienced.

Not sure if the answer is more heavy weapons in there, having a more and fire heavy is already a big thing but things like the brightlance and EML are indeed way overpriced across the board. Perhaps a points decrease to 6 points a model since AP system basicly robs them of survivability against most armies, though with everyone shouting about cover saves everywhere nullifying so many other units usefulness the cover saves should be putting their use up for a larger number fielded.

In my view though it's the 12" range that makes them such a less desirable choice, shooty army? only for a turn, then you're bogged down in close combat with unit designed to be firing at the enemy, not hacking at them.

Overall most units I think work great and have a use and should be considered for armies but some do need looking at.

Swooping hawks:
Previous editions these guys were great, fly around the battlefield dropping either str4 -1 save 2" blast or str 6 -3 save single target grenades and then using their weak gun, without needing to be out the game an entire turn and hoping for a roll on a die to be the right number to enter play.

So keep a choice of grenades (high str/ap wound allocation or lower str/ap and blast?) and ability to drop when using their jump pack move should make them a lot better. Still allowed to deep strike, keep the roll to enter if greades are dropped this way.

Shining spears:
On paper I really like these, hard hitting, high save improved toughness but looking around people are saying they are taken out too easy. Maybe allow larger squads, a points cost would HAVE to be playtested out thourghly by GW. (Yes, I know)

Vypers:
Give me back skimmer moving fast rules to be honest, I still use squadrons of these because it's my favourite model. Scouts rule added onto them maybe, but the str of defensive weapons going down really hit them hard along with the other eldar skimmers.

Aspect warriors with a bs/ws increase? 4 equals the marines scores, which are the elite fighting force apparently, all they do is train to use weapons, fine as is imo.

It has sounded like a lot of changes are being called for because of the need for synergy with the eldar, and being an army where a lot of units are highly specialised they always have needed that. Flexabilty in roles is more a marine thing not aspects

i have no problem fluffwise with ws5/bs3 banshees (or ws3/bs5 shooty aspects) simply because the eldar train as much or more than a marine (as they learn their aspect of war to perfection and nothing else) and they are eldar, which is way beyond even a marine's physical prowess (not when it comes to strength or toughness, but agility and speed? definitely).

But really, the aspect warriors aren't bad in the current edition. really, all eldar units that previously had fleet should retain fleet, but have a option to move 6" in the assault phase, instead of assaulting.

And as it stands right now, if i had 350 points to buy a full squad of shining spears, i'd spend it on wraithguard.

Gwyidion wrote:Here's an idea for a farseer power - call it, i don't know, 'focus' or something.

fluffy stuff:
The farseer clears the minds of his fellow eldar, allowing them to fight with cold rationality and poise.


Farseer targets a friendly squad within 18", that squad may choose to pass or fail any leadership tests it takes until the start of the next eldar turn. Also, this squad may not have any characteristic negatively affected by the opponent, in any way at all.
(come to think of it, this is a really good power for seer councils, as some armies rely on reducing leadership then pinning)


and because apparently space wolves are the most powerful psykers in the galaxy, all eldar farseers have wargear allowing them to cast 3 powers a turn. eldrad gets 4.

change mind war to 24" (its 18 now, isn't it?) and do no require line of sight, and explicitly deny cover and armor saves, invulnerable save may be taken as normal.

Eldritch storm - specify it does not scatter, explicitly. S4 ap6 large blast pinning. 4+2d6 against vehicles, the player controlling the farseer determines facing always.


Guide - all friendly units within 6, not one unit within 6.


And i guess to incorporate warlocks, all farseer powers that target or affect a friendly unit (such as fortune, guide, and focus) may target a unit at any range if that unit includes a warlock.

I like those ideas a lot, Maybe two powers should be standard and with spirit stones it's three.

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S. I have the impression that the melee-aspect -> two attack thing I proposed wasn't that popular among you, how come? Is it too overpowered for the idicated point increase? Or do you have a problem fluffwise? IIRC, Space Marine Vanguards also have two attacks and they aren't considered overpowered at all.

P.P.S. I fell it's wrong that orks have WS 4 and elite aspect warriors are also 4. But that is more of a problem with the Ork boys I guess...

Schepp himself wrote:

Gwyidion wrote:Here's an idea for a farseer power - call it, i don't know, 'focus' or something.

fluffy stuff:
The farseer clears the minds of his fellow eldar, allowing them to fight with cold rationality and poise.


Farseer targets a friendly squad within 18", that squad may choose to pass or fail any leadership tests it takes until the start of the next eldar turn. Also, this squad may not have any characteristic negatively affected by the opponent, in any way at all.
(come to think of it, this is a really good power for seer councils, as some armies rely on reducing leadership then pinning)


and because apparently space wolves are the most powerful psykers in the galaxy, all eldar farseers have wargear allowing them to cast 3 powers a turn. eldrad gets 4.

change mind war to 24" (its 18 now, isn't it?) and do no require line of sight, and explicitly deny cover and armor saves, invulnerable save may be taken as normal.

Eldritch storm - specify it does not scatter, explicitly. S4 ap6 large blast pinning. 4+2d6 against vehicles, the player controlling the farseer determines facing always.


Guide - all friendly units within 6, not one unit within 6.


And i guess to incorporate warlocks, all farseer powers that target or affect a friendly unit (such as fortune, guide, and focus) may target a unit at any range if that unit includes a warlock.

I like those ideas a lot, Maybe two powers should be standard and with spirit stones it's three.

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S. I have the impression that the melee-aspect -> two attack thing I proposed wasn't that popular among you, how come? Is it too overpowered for the idicated point increase? Or do you have a problem fluffwise? IIRC, Space Marine Vanguards also have two attacks and they aren't considered overpowered at all.

P.P.S. I fell it's wrong that orks have WS 4 and elite aspect warriors are also 4. But that is more of a problem with the Ork boys I guess...

I think the problem is more fluff wise. Aspect warriors all have the same amount of combat training and all of them have been in a different aspect before and/or will be in a different aspect later. So they should have the same profiles

I would like to see the Eldar army as a whole to be more elite, with no meatshield kind of units. Its funny that the dying race has 20 guardian lives to just throw away... They shouldnt be able to absorb firepower, except for a few special units like wraithguardetc, but rather just avoid it. For that reason, I would hate to see a points drop on the guardians, casue then they would become more of a meatshield, which you really dont want. Many of these upgrades would cause a points increase, so I wont mention since I havent been in 40K long enough to judge points that well.
Just my ideas for different units:

Across the board:
More exarch powers
Cooler exarch powers
More Powerful Exarch powers
More Exarch weapons
Cooler Exarch weapons
More Powerful Exarch Powers
Holofields- roll 2 dice and let the Eldar player pick, rather than lowest.

Cheaper BL, EML, Starcannons etc
Also, bring Starcannnons back to what they were

Warlocks
An increase to Ld 9 is kinda called for, they are meant to be leaders. New warlock powers would be cool, just to add some more variety, as at the moment they can be a bit boring. They could also do with being a bit more powerful, as the are meant to be good psykers nontheless. An I bump to 5 would also be good. The thing that I would like to see happen is that can use the singing spear in synergy with another CCW, so that it doesnt have a major disadvantage. It would also be cool o have access to 2 powers, like Destructor and Enhance, when you want to really buff a squad.

Defender Guardians: They have a 12" gun? WHY! It would be better if it was a 24" assualt 1 weapon. Also, increasing the BS would help, as well as giving the warlock that can be added to the squad a power something like shrouding. If its works for Grey KNigts itb works for Eldar . An increase of the armour save to 4+ would still be very good, to stop bolters ripping straight through.

Storm Guardians
Need to have a higher I and WS, as well as 4+ armour. Access to a couple of power swords in the, in the same style as ranged weapons would also be cool.

Farseer
Needs more powers, to put it plain. Eldar are meant to be the best, most trained psykers in the galaxy, and we get mindwar.GAH.

Autarch
Stat increase would be good, should have I 7, and also a higher WS than a SM captain! Them getting instankilled so easy annoys me, dont see what to do about it though, as they are not meant to be hit in the first place Also, the master stratgist needs to be brought in line with the new rules, strategy level 4 doesnt do anything anymore! Making any squad attached to the Autarch scoring would be good as well, but not the autarch by himself. More wargear options would make him cool, but seeing as it is only the exarchs that get the special gear, and he isnt a n exarch it doesnt work from a fluff point of view. Then again, he is supposed to be pro, so who cares .

Avatar
Pretty good as he is, there havent been any problems that Ive found, from a gaming POV. From fluff I wouldnt mind if he was better, as an semi incarnation of a war god should be more on par with a bloodthirster, but who cares

Swooping Hawks
Oh dear, where do we start..... I'll leave it to somone else

Howling Banshees
In their fluff it says they have deadly screams, and strike deadly blows with great precision. So it wouldnt make much sense for them to get more attacks, imo. What would be cool is if they hav something like whyce weapons, halving the opponents WS no matter their strength etc, instead of the absolutely useless Warshout Exarch power. I also think the masks should reduce the opponents Ld value. Giving them WS 5 would be VERY cool, but then its also irritating to see every army having a unit with WS 5. Oh well, their Eldar .

Striking Scorpions
Give them an extra attack, so they will have 2 base. It would be better if they have a higher WS than SM and Orks, but thats just too much power creep.

Harlequins
Good as they are, just the Death Jester needs to be better, so that everyone uses such a cool model

Rangers/ Pathfinders
Rangers rend on 5, Pathfinders rend on 4. Thats more like what they were in 4rth with the Ap 1 thing. Also a points decrease MIGHT be applicable

Wave Serpent
An assualt ramp would be awesome, or even just a rule allowing it to pivot without it counting as moving, for units hopping out and assualting. Veil of Tears-esque thing would be cool.

Fire Prism
Just shrouding kinda thing like above. Also clear up the thing with combining beams without being able to shoot.

Falcon
Allow it to shoot 2 weapons of the turret as one main weapon, once again shrouding, as above.

Will add more when I feel like it, so I can get past my 2 cents, and up to 4

heres an idea - rangers stay the same, pathfinders stay the same, except the pathfinder upgrade is 11 pts, and they get crack shot in the deal.


thats wishlisting.... but daaaamn.

Threeshades wrote:I think the problem is more fluff wise. Aspect warriors all have the same amount of combat training and all of them have been in a different aspect before and/or will be in a different aspect later. So they should have the same profiles.

Mh, well I thought about that, too. So either giving them all two attacks, or just boosting their respective WS/BS.

Markoftherings wrote: "lot of stuff"

Thanks for the suggestions, luckily, I have suggested many of those changes in my first post. The 4+ Armor creep is debatable. Personally, I think that it's not cool for every unit in 40k to have a 4+ save. Armor-creep isn't cool either. But that's just my opinion and I wouldn't mind if they changed that.

Greets
Schepp himself

WingWong wrote:There are a few bits n pieces which need work in the codex but I think that, generally, it's still pretty good.

I'm sorry but this just looks like a /pooreldar thread. If you put even half of those suggestions in, the list would be waaaaay too powerful. At the momemnt, it is both competitive and versatile even without the borked Jet councils etc.

Eldar, with the exception of Spears and a few other things, are kind of fine as they are.

Yeah, without Jetseer...we're completely uncompetitive in most environments. So that is....'fine as they are'? Do you hug your Marines before you go to bed too? :-P


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Schepp himself wrote:

Crystal targeting matrix i remember. I also remember the crying that occur and I believe that crying was routed in the fact that it broke a basic rule of the game.

But...it's in the game now with Tau, isn't it? So the things we teach the Tau we can't keep ourselves? I'm confused by this. I don't see why, if we're gonna have such expensive vehicles, this option can't return(getting behind full cover is hard, we can't hide behind 'Area Terrain' anymore afterall).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:COR! An Eldar Wishlist demanding lower points, more power and of course the moon on a stick! Who'dve thunk it!

It seems to fit with the prior releases of 5th edition...so...every one should have this. Or...are you as smart as the Orks you play and feel that we should still overpay and underperform with a brand new codex and be a laughed off the table army?

WTS, Trolls who don't play it to know what it's all about.

Honestly, as a non-tourny player, I'm fine with the power of the codex, I would just like some of the holes plugged (vypers, PLs, swooping hawks) and add more options and customization. I would be ok with 'craftworlds' enabled by the purchase of a specific IC (ala C:SM), for different armies.

Farseer Faenyin wrote:

Schepp himself wrote:

Crystal targeting matrix i remember. I also remember the crying that occur and I believe that crying was routed in the fact that it broke a basic rule of the game.

But...it's in the game now with Tau, isn't it? So the things we teach the Tau we can't keep ourselves? I'm confused by this. I don't see why, if we're gonna have such expensive vehicles, this option can't return(getting behind full cover is hard, we can't hide behind 'Area Terrain' anymore afterall).

True, I was thinking about the crying in the 4th edition where you could hide your vypers behind level 3 terrain. In 5th the targeting matrix could work.

Greets
Schepp himself

One change that i would agree with is that if you take a Phoenix lord that should unlock that aspect to be taken as troops.

I had some more extensive changes in mind.

Plasma Grenades: Both defensive and offensive grenades rolled into one

Guardians -> 4+, 18" catapults, price hike so they're no longer Eldar Grot cannon fodder.

ALL Aspect Warriors -> 3+ Save, many price hikes with some more changes:

Dire Avengers -> 2 CCW + Shuricat, Plasma Grenades
Hawks -> completely change the grenade dropping way, buff to the Lasblaster

A few more I can't recall of hand, but were more minor than those changes. Points costs were played around with of course.

Major change to Exarchs: Current Exarch statline goes to Aspect 'veterans' who lead squads. Exarchs go up to WS/BS6, gain an attack and wound and become pseudo independent characters. The powers go to the Aspect Squads, and Exarchs go back to individual fighting powers which give things like +1S to him only.

I put the Support Platforms into Troops, but they don't take a slot and are 1 team per Guardian unit. (still a separate unit though)

ok quick question, there arent any rules regarding the special characters such as yriel and eldrad saying they can only be fielded with their respective craftworlds is there?

ive gone through my codex, but would like to be sure so thought id ask

Avalon wrote:ok quick question, there arent any rules regarding the special characters such as yriel and eldrad saying they can only be fielded with their respective craftworlds is there?

ive gone through my codex, but would like to be sure so thought id ask

No if you don't feel fluffy about it you could be fielding bob and max. Its call counts as, all the rage.

Allow the +1 Reserves bonus that the Autarch provides be +1/-1 at the Eldar player's choice. Helps keep units off table with the penalty until the round you need them when you apply the bonus.