Just wondered how much exposure people have had to warmachine or hordes.

Learn more about the games on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warmachine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hordes_(war_game)

Left off "Played it, didn't like it"

Played it in a demo game, seemed ok. I've got a couple of starter boxes somewhere from Gen Con 4 years ago.

yeah,
I think I'd like it, some of the figures look awesome.
But I've never bothered as no one I know plays any PP games.

Panic...

12thRonin wrote:Left off "Played it, didn't like it"

Make that not interested in general then. So many options, and I always add polls in a sleep deprived state so always forget at least one option

Did some research, read the background, thought it was pretty thin, didn't go any further...

Love the models, love the game.

I played one game with the Cryx (spelling?) It was fun and I wouldn't mind playing but I don't think that it will take 40ks place.

Played it when it first came out, then quit and sold my army off for an nice profit. I didn't like it because it seemed like unless you played the Cryx you lose (and lose badly).

Some people in our area stuck with it until about a year ago then the FLGS got out of it. Kind of funny though because the next store is an hour away and it has one of the larger player bases in the state. The even host a WM weekend annually and own several of the original minis from the first WM rulebook.

Used to play alot. Fun games with decent background. The granularity of control is finer than 40K, which makes it better for skirmish gaming, but slows down a bit. One aspect I did not like is the OMGPWN1!!11 instant win/lose situations because the warcaster moved .5 inch too far. Of course, playing Cryx, I also ruthlessly used that to my advantage ;-) Many early abilities were all or nothing (IE you can' do x or y) instead of increases to difficulty (compare Stealth and Camouflage) which is bad design, IMO. In the end, though, I drifted more towards Hordes bc I liked the Fury mechanic better. But faction balance was a serious issue. Currently Trolls are still subpar and Circle and Legion are OP. The continuing power issues from each subsequent release also left a bad taste in my mouth. Since I am unsure how the new rules rewrite will pan out, I haven't played at all in a while. I am hoping for a streamlined game (special rules creep was getting ridiculous and it seems like the are adopting a similar approach to 40K's USRs) but currently my favorite WM faction Cryx seems to play totally differently, which will probably bump me out of that faction entirely. Fortunately, I have a sizable Menoth force as well. And maybe it means TBs will be brought up to par when it hits Hordes.

Used to play either regularly but haven't touched either in months. Mostly its because I'm too lazy to get up Sunday to go to my LGS and play... I'd rather sleep in till 2pm lol

I also play Cryx for Warmachine as well as Orks in 40k. I don't play it as much as 40k but it's a really enjoyable game, I like the range of different attacks that you can do. More for the image of a heavy warjack being slammed around into walls, off cliffs and into other units. .

It helps that I really like the miniature range as well, there's some awesome models, though I have found that the metal models are slightly flimsier than their GW counterparts.

WM/Hordes = Pure, abject hatred.

Tried it... fun game, nice models, easy to play... but I just don't have time to commit to another game system.

If (when) GW prices 40K so high I can't stomach it I'll probably go back to Warmachine.

Its different than 40k. Games are faster than 40k. A lot of folks don't like that the game hinges on being aggressive and avoiding attrition if at all possible.

Its a totally different feel.

Oldgrue wrote:A lot of folks don't like that the game hinges on being aggressive and avoiding attrition if at all possible.

Most of the 40k players I know don't like the game because of this reason. Well, that, and the whole "Kill one guy and win" thing. I like it because it's very aggressive but still tactical. To be fair though, I like the newer WM MkII Field Test rules much more than the standard ruleset, MkI favors infantry way too much and was written better for Hordes.

Used to play it. Loved the game mechanics and figs, but liked WHFB and some other historical games more. Sold all my stuff to some dude in Australia on Ebay and payed for a vacation to Hawaii.

Considering its based off (massive failure) Iron Kingdoms RPG I already wasnt a fan, the models are overly cartoony and the game has alot more "how bad can I break this game" to it then most.

I know of it, I've heard good things about it, and I like some of the minis. But I don't really feel compelled to try it. I don't know anything about the backstory, so it hasn't had a chance to capture my imagination. I might give it a go one day.

Everyone by me enjoys it, but I don't really like the layout of the rules and the lack of bucket o' dice I love so much. That and none of the figures really really appeal to me like tyranids do.

Never really heard of it till now, might start looking into it. I heard something about steampunk...

You left off "Played It. Sold It because if I have to buy new figs to be competitive, I can start a different game that costs less."

I use to play both but pawned my Cygnar and circle. Im thinking about getting back into it but if i did id probaly stay with just hordes.

I think the game itself, overall, is really cool. Personally though I don't 'do' the hobby for the gaming aspect so I have a biased opinion - if it looks good, then it is good. lol

It looks nice, but i dont have the time or money right now. I intend to look into it and maybe get into it someday though. I loves me some wargaming i does.

I'm not fond of games that tell you to go on a "roid rage binge".

Watched BlueTablePainting talk about Hordes on YouTube. I'd never heard of it before then, and I'm still not interested to look into it. Games Workshop's enough for me. But hey, it's probably good stuff anyway.

Warmahci-Wuuuuuut?

Love the system, the models and the background. It's a triple threat!

It completely displaced 40k as my game of choice. It's just such a better rules system that I only am willing to get back into 40k because I got a bunch of free stuff.

I like that it forces you to be aggressive, and have found that no one I've played with has been as much of an asshat as those who played 40k. Setting up your list's combo that will completely decimate the other side (while trying to deny your opponent the same) makes for a very tactical game, and fits in beautifully with the skirmish system. Oh, and don't let anyone tell you you have to have the new shinies. Models from Prime (the first release) are still extremely competitive.

Both the models and the background have really grown leaps and bounds over the humble beginnings. The fleshing out of the armies and characters for each faction has really made the "themed army" a viable choice in many cases. Plus, the characters grow and change, progressing the storyline, which is much more intersting than the perpetual stagnation of 40k (not that I don't adore that background too, mind you).

Overall, I'm glad I made the jump from 40k to Warmachine. It's just plain ol' better.

my wallet hurts enough with gw maybe next year after the horde of gw I have to get for adepticon

I Started playing it shortly after it came out. And for awhile all was good, i was content and happy with my Khador army. But after superiority the game just became to ridiculous for my taste. too many abilities/combos/tag-teams out there to keep straight. The "power level" just became too insane for my taste. Too complicated for its own good. I still continue to buy Khador stuff and play occasionally, but i almost always regret it when i play.

Warmachine was my game of choice for a lot of 40k Fourth Edition. Fifth edition (and a new Ork and a looming SW codex) have brought me back to 40k.

When my group burns out on 40k, we might get back to H/WM. At one point, I had 4 armies (2 WM, 2 H), and now just one of each.

It's a good game system, with very good support. GW could learn a thing or two from them.

But, to do well, it seems like you need to know too much - there's like 80 casters, plus solos, plus units and jacks/beasts that all interact. While that makes for a great tactical challenge, it just seemed like the game was as much about preventing your opponent from getting off their super-combo as getting off your own super-combo. It seems like when we play casually, nearly ever game ends with, "gee, if I had known you could do that, I would have done my turn totally different." I just don't have the time to game enough to have that knowledge base to compete well at a tourney.

Some of the minis are really cool. Some are pretty gak.

Oooomph...

Warmachine.... I have always told myself I'd buy some Menoth or Everblight models, but... I don't have enough time for my GW Armies, so so far I've resisted the desperate urge to buy some!!!

But the minis are awesome, and I praised PP when they released Warmachine years ago, it seemed like a good contender for GW, with a different approach of modelling and painting (much like Rackham in the days).

WM is a great game.

It rewards those that play aggressively and who put thought into list building and the synergy between models/units.

High action level, high lethality, fast paced skirmish game.

The Background is far from thin and is constantly evolving.

The setting is a great mix of fantasy and technology with steam-powered robots, monsters, magic and guns!

Really like the Warjacks, don't want to spend the Money to get started.

armbarred wrote:You left off "Played It. Sold It because if I have to buy new figs to be competitive, I can start a different game that costs less."

SHH!! IG players need to stop listening to this man!

armbarred wrote:You left off "Played It. Sold It because if I have to buy new figs to be competitive, I can start a different game that costs less."

Heh. And GW has never had that complaint before?

Speaking strictly as a painting-only hobbyist, I'm very fond of Warmachine and Hordes. I love the minis, love the books (at least for the artwork and back stories. I couldn't say a thing about game mechanics.) And I'm not even a Steampunk fan, except for the Thief PC games. There's still some story work that needs to be tweaked a bit to make it perfect, but overall I think it's a great setting with plenty of interesting stuff and loads of potential.

Heck, if I had time to play, I might even consider starting the IK RPG!

Displaced 40k entirely for me. I feel that it's a much better game, backed by a company that takes the game as seriously as I do. The models usually do it for me, though when they miss they tend to miss hard. The fluff is passable for my interests - there could stand to be more plain fiction written from the IK perspective. What we get now are usually glorified unit entries, set in an otherwise pretty interesting world.

Definitely feel like it's the big boys version of wargaming - because you have to have a very healthy outlook on gaming to be able to handle WM/H at all. Even the best player is going to get caught unawares and THOROUGHLY trampled from time to time. Of course you also need to be capable of returning the favor when you can.

Played it extensively, from when it first came out. Quit playing b/c it was too difficult to keep in mind everyone's rules and combos, and know what combos to avoid, etc. You can't just know your own army front-to-back, you have to know all of the opponent armies too...otherwise you lose quickly b/c they execute that nasty combo on you quickly.

It's like trying to keep up with Magic, in the old days. I couldn't keep up with the scope creep of the game.

If I wanted a wargame that played like D&D I'd play D&D miniatures. I wasn't a battletech/robotech guy either but warmachine seemed to think that the jacks should use that system... Not only that but the game can create HUGELY imbalanced match-ups to the point where not even dice can save you. Couple it with a game that wants to be steampunk but can't put both feet in the pool and you have warmachine. It has freaking cards, feth's sake!

Kungfuhustler wrote: the game can create HUGELY imbalanced match-ups to the point where not even dice can save you.

Congrats you also just described 40K.

I loved the details on the Warmachine Menoth Figures. Started painting an army but never got to play. I sold my army and now I am addicted to plastic.

Kungfuhustler wrote:Not only that but the game can create HUGELY imbalanced match-ups to the point where not even dice can save you.

This is actually completely false and one of what I consider to be the strongest aspects of the game vs. other systems. It is exceptionally well designed for the actions of the players (not the models) to win or lose the game.

I have actually gotten in a demo for Warmachine, but I'm looking to start Legion of Everblight for Hordes.


Thagrosh is epic win!

Moz wrote:

Kungfuhustler wrote:Not only that but the game can create HUGELY imbalanced match-ups to the point where not even dice can save you.

This is actually completely false and one of what I consider to be the strongest aspects of the game vs. other systems. It is exceptionally well designed for the actions of the players (not the models) to win or lose the game.

You sir are entirely wrong. Remember the special charachtor that makes your opponent unable to shoot his squad while they are "balanced" by not being able to shoot? He moves, your squad shoots then moves to rejoin him. Against a shooting army you cannot lose. Still want to say that I'm wrong?


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the only positive thing I will say about this atrocity of a game is that they simultaneously update the armies.

Kungfuhustler wrote:You sir are entirely wrong. Remember the special charachtor that makes your opponent unable to shoot his squad while they are "balanced" by not being able to shoot? He moves, your squad shoots then moves to rejoin him. Against a shooting army you cannot lose. Still want to say that I'm wrong?

Which one are you talking about there are literally dozens of anti shooting abilities. If you spammed an army entirely made up of shooting units I suppose you would get your ass handed to you by this list, it's difficult to say 'regardless of dice' because I don't know the exact build. I'm trying to think of a list that's based upon shooting denial that's got anywhere in tournaments.

Another problem with WM is that Characters and solos DOMINATE the game. Its a game that doesn't rely on army tactics but instead uses broken combos and OP units. Which was fine when there wasn't a whole lot of stuff, but now a days there is just too much crap to know to be able to play.

I suppose that's why they're reworking the game so that Warjacks are the deciding factor in games. A number of characters from MkI (Alexia, Ayiana & Holt, Doc Killingsworth etc.) have been reduced in power.

I played Hordes for 3 months and sold off the Legion. Nice rules, fluff is evolving, but I got the impression that I had to constantly buy new models as they came out just to keep up with other players. I prefer 40k because I can get a collection built and stop for awhile without having to buy loads of models just to keep up with the game.

George Spiggott wrote:I suppose that's why they're reworking the game so that Warjacks are the deciding factor in games. A number of characters from MkI (Alexia, Ayiana & Holt, Doc Killingsworth etc.) have been reduced in power.

Great, more big machines with HP's for their limbs! Go battletech, I mean, Battletech!

That's good to hear, but from what i played of the MKII beta, not much has really clanged. Except that i won't use alexia and a few other solos anymore, but instead am FORCED to take at least 1 jack. It still doesn't change the core problem of this game.

There should have only been two poll choices here...

1) I play Warmachine because it's not GW.

2) I hate Warmachine because I love GW.

Will you be my Valentine?

Yes
No

Love, Warmachine

Kungfuhustler wrote:

George Spiggott wrote:I suppose that's why they're reworking the game so that Warjacks are the deciding factor in games. A number of characters from MkI (Alexia, Ayiana & Holt, Doc Killingsworth etc.) have been reduced in power.

Great, more big machines with HP's for their limbs! Go battletech, I mean, Battletech!

How eloquent.

Wm and 40K are both great games, but for different reasons.

Of course we all know that some people feel the need to be fanboys and slag anything that doesn't fall under the banner that they have allied themselves to ( gamer elitism and geeks hating on geeks is always ironic to the extreme but so be it...). God forbid you admit another game is fun or that it might be possible to like both rather then pit them against each other.

As to the two points that always seem to get cited when 40K nerds feel the need to slag on WM nerds:

1. WM has far more in common with ccgs like MTG then 40K to be sure. It is a game focused on list building and combo building, that is the whole point and premise behind the game. Anyone that states this fact if it is some shocking revelation has been living with their heads up their arses as PP makes no bones about this, and it is why the game is so fun. It may require a little too much mental energy for some, but then the game just isn't for you, it doesn't mean its a fault, just that you can't handle it or it isn't your cup of tea.

2. That somehow WM is less tactical then 40k?!? WTF? Lets be honest 40K isn't Sun Tzu stuff no matter how much the 40K crowd wants to pretend it is.

The game is fun to be sure, but my eight year old has picked up the rules in about four months of playing and is now beating seasoned guys that have been playing for 10+ years. 40K is about spamming the uber units and running the lists that the so called "pros" tells us are the only lists/units that win on this and other forums. 40k ISN't tactically deep. It has rather simple mechanics and very predictable builds for each army. One can look at a given list and predict exactly what it's purpose iss and what the player will do with it. 40K is about kick ass models and all the hobby potential it offers first and foremost and the great setting and backstory to boot.. Its a great game, but if one wants to claim that WM isn't tactical one better realize that claiming 40K is or is more so is talking utter garbage...

I have played 40K for close to 18 years, and WM since it's release (what is that six or seven years?). Both are great games with their own appeal and flavor. One is not a substitute for the other, nor do I find one superior. I know it's cool to slag other games, but seriously lets get a grip and have some perspective people...

malfred wrote:Will you be my Valentine?

Yes
No

Love, Warmachine

Dear Warmachine,

I am already Hordes' Valentine, but we can still be friends.

Love,
Hordini


P.S. - Please don't tell Flames of War.

I quit playing mostly because of the change to MK2. When the release schedule is back to normal and all the MK2 stuff is out I'll think about jumping back in and see how it's changed. But right now there is no real point in buying any newish rules.

I said other because I might collect but at the moment I don't want to commit to another game when I still dont know warhammer 40k that well. Plus the miniatures seem expensive.

Other - Don't know enough about it.

The miniatures I've seen aren't compelling enough for me to pick up the ruleset. If the rules were solid I'd consider playing the game, maybe, but I don't want to get worked up in another system.

GW's stuff, plus my boardgame, scale modeling, and video game hobbies take a junk out of my budget and time.

wow ct gamer. wow. Because someone points out obvious glaring flaws in a system they must be a FANBOY OF ANOTHER SYSTEM? That is some pretty nice logic there. I actually gave wm/hordes 1/2 a chance and was severely saddened it's absolute failtude. Bummed me out, such nice models and all.

You are right that WM has a lot in common with MTG than 40K. It really does. But like Obama you confuse strategy with tactics.

The facts are that I and many others like me, 40k players and non, don't like WM because it's very imbalanced, klunky, unrefined and generally a bad game. Many people do like it though, and they generally favor the combo/how broken can I make this factor that MTG offers. That's fine too. Some people like those games and that's whey we have more than GW & Wotc. But calling someone a GW fanboy because they play GW games and don't like WM is utterly stupid, unlike the "ignore" button.

Kungfuhustler wrote:The facts are that I and many others like me, 40k players and non, don't like WM because it's very imbalanced, klunky, unrefined and generally a bad game.

So you're in the non 40k playing camp right? Given that you dislike imbalanced, klunky, unrefined and generally bad games. I was hoping that you'd clarify on your opinion from earlier that Warmachine is unbalanced.

I have always liked it but the price,oh SWEET MOTHER OF SPACE ELVES the price!!!!!!!!

Where I pay R180(180 rand) for a box of ork boys(R180=$22).I pay R380 for a unit of kossite woodsmen(R380=$44).Not a large difference I know but for the moment it is just a bit too much for me.

Wow that's one hell of a retail markup you have there, they're $24 from Maelstrom Games which is a much more pocket friendly 188 Rand. IIRC postage is free.

/H.B.M.C.

I see savings in my future!

George Spiggott wrote:

Kungfuhustler wrote:The facts are that I and many others like me, 40k players and non, don't like WM because it's very imbalanced, klunky, unrefined and generally a bad game.

So you're in the non 40k playing camp right? Given that you dislike imbalanced, klunky, unrefined and generally bad games. I was hoping that you'd clarify on your opinion from earlier that Warmachine is unbalanced.

I did. you seemed to ignore it as you weren't exactly sure which unit/list I was talking about. I don't remember either though as it was a while back. The simple fact is that WM can create some insanely one sided matchups, ones that even loaded dice can't fix. I play 40k. i find the rules to be pretty solid although any tabletop game will always have it's own semi-unique quirks. 40k is generally balanced as well, and each new codex release seems to lend advantage to older neglected armies. The only thing I like about the WM company is it's habit of simulotaneous updates. GW could learn a thing or 2 from that!

With regards to balance the difference between 40k and WM is that balance is getting better in Warmachine unlike 40k where it just seems to be a never ending cycle of one broken codex after another. I'd also point out that it has always been possible to crank up your army just by adding a few new models or even just by changing your caster... With 40k, in many cases, you are shopping for a whole new army.

Kungfuhustler wrote:I did. you seemed to ignore it as you weren't exactly sure which unit/list I was talking about. I don't remember either though as it was a while back.

A vague 'this character is unstoppable' just doesn't cut the mustard, your vague reference doesn't fill me with confidence that you know what you're talking about. Could anyone clarify who this unstoppable character is? I think you may be referring to Vlad but as wind wall is one of the weakest tools in his armoury you can't possibly be referring to this tactic.

beefHeart wrote:With regards to balance the difference between 40k and WM is that balance is getting better in Warmachine unlike 40k where it just seems to be a never ending cycle of one broken codex after another. I'd also point out that it has always been possible to crank up your army just by adding a few new models or even just by changing your caster... With 40k, in many cases, you are shopping for a whole new army.

Name a broken Codex released in the last 2 years. Oh wait... There aren't any. QQ

George Spiggott wrote:

Kungfuhustler wrote:I did. you seemed to ignore it as you weren't exactly sure which unit/list I was talking about. I don't remember either though as it was a while back.

A vague 'this character is unstoppable' just doesn't cut the mustard, your vague reference doesn't fill me with confidence that you know what you're talking about. Could anyone clarify who this unstoppable character is? I think you may be referring to Vlad but as wind wall is one of the weakest tools in his armoury you can't possibly be referring to this tactic.

I am not a WM player. I don't know the names of the armies save for a couple, let alone SC's. When I checked the game out (a year ago) I talked to a lot of my friends about the game and discovered that there are several un-winnable matchups. The best example is the SC who denies enemies to shoot at his unit in any way, matched up against a pure shooting list. The fact that due to rediculous movement rules that require overwatch to work properly, in a system that does not have overwatch, and your un-shootable army can shoot all it want's to! Ridiculous! When I discovered that pure shooting builds cannot EVER be competitive because of SC's like that I decided to let WM grow up for another few years. Maybe it will be a good, balanced game... someday.

TLDR version: kungfuhustler doesn't know enough about the game to really judge the balance, but since he asked some friends opinions he realized that since a force that forgoes movement, closecombat, and magic in lieu of shooting cannot win if it faces a force designed to counter shooting - that the game is unbalanced and should be flamed online when possible.

Page 5 sorts these guys out just fine.

Kungfuhustler wrote:

beefHeart wrote:With regards to balance the difference between 40k and WM is that balance is getting better in Warmachine unlike 40k where it just seems to be a never ending cycle of one broken codex after another. I'd also point out that it has always been possible to crank up your army just by adding a few new models or even just by changing your caster... With 40k, in many cases, you are shopping for a whole new army.

Name a broken Codex released in the last 2 years. Oh wait... There aren't any. QQ

George Spiggott wrote:

Kungfuhustler wrote:I did. you seemed to ignore it as you weren't exactly sure which unit/list I was talking about. I don't remember either though as it was a while back.

A vague 'this character is unstoppable' just doesn't cut the mustard, your vague reference doesn't fill me with confidence that you know what you're talking about. Could anyone clarify who this unstoppable character is? I think you may be referring to Vlad but as wind wall is one of the weakest tools in his armoury you can't possibly be referring to this tactic.

I am not a WM player. I don't know the names of the armies save for a couple, let alone SC's. When I checked the game out (a year ago) I talked to a lot of my friends about the game and discovered that there are several un-winnable matchups. The best example is the SC who denies enemies to shoot at his unit in any way, matched up against a pure shooting list. The fact that due to ridiculous movement rules that require overwatch to work properly, in a system that does not have overwatch, and your un-shootable army can shoot all it want's to! Ridiculous! When I discovered that pure shooting builds cannot EVER be competitive because of SC's like that I decided to let WM grow up for another few years. Maybe it will be a good, balanced game... someday.

So what if I bring my infantry based IG (and I own no special or heavy weapons) against a Mechanized IG list?

I can't shoot the enemy at all. How is this different then the nightmare scenario in WM so described?

The difference is the WM game allows a number of ways tactically/list build to bypass a models "immunity" to shooting. A model in WM might have an ability that causes ranged attacks to "auto-miss", but you as atatcker have ways to get around this by using template weapons and getting close so the scatter of the automiss can't scatter off the target thus he is still hit, magic is it's own classification of attack so ignores the ranged attack auto-misss, you can move a model of your own near the enemy model so protected and target your own model to catch enemy model in the effect or to have an effect that jumps to next closest model hit him, etc.

Inthe baove 40k scenario you have no way to bypass the fact that your lasguns can't hurt any of the Ig tanks. OF course you can remedy this by buying heavy/special wepaons, etc. Wow, same is true in WM: every faction in Wm has ways and tools to bypassor deal with things like stealth that cause auto-misses or abilities that prevent targeting. The challenge in Wm is to bring the tools to deal with a variety o tactical challenegs. A person who puts all his eggs in one basket and brings an all shooty army is asking to get fethed. maybe bring a balanced army and stop complainign when your one trick pony runs up against somethign designed to counter said trick. This smae stuff happens and holds true in 40K as well...

People that claim Wm is rife with such impossible match ups simply don't know much about WM and have not put in the time to learn.

Moz wrote:TLDR version: kungfuhustler doesn't know enough about the game to really judge the balance, but since he asked some friends opinions he realized that since a force that forgoes movement, closecombat, and magic in lieu of shooting cannot win if it faces a force designed to counter shooting - that the game is unbalanced and should be flamed online when possible.

Page 5 sorts these guys out just fine.

O' contrair mon sharie! I actually did do a bit of research, as I wanted to build said shooting force almost entirely as I decided that a particular rifleman model was amazing. Then I found out how easy it is to counter a shooting list, upon discussing the game with some veteran WM gamers who are friends of mine, and no viable workaround to make it work. Sure, I could do a couple of things with the list but that would take away from it's core principal of shooting things to death. In 40k I can have a purely shooting army and nobody can say, "Nuh uh! I has uberboss-x so you can't shoot me!" Because 40k is better balanced. Yes it has the old list that can't work right now, Necrons, and that makes me nerdrage to no end but enitre army types are not uncompetitive! If I want to build an army with a battle theme (assault, fast troops, tanks, walkers, shooters) in 40k there is an army that I can go buy and make that work. I have not really seen/heard of that being true with WM.

Have you found a pure shooting army that cannot be countered by shooting denial lists? The fact that there are shooting denial lists is enough for me to not play WM because I like armies that shoot. The ggame might be good in a good many ways, but if an entire army type can just be denied I sense a great wrong.


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CG gamer: Dammit, I meant to hit the ignore button. oh well. Have you ever heard of an all lasgun army? I sure haven't. But even an army without heavy/special weapons can have meltabombs en' masse! So I'm pretty sure that with good dice said army still has a chance.

In 40k I CAN run all shooty armies and win.
In WM I CAN'T run all shooty armies and win.
See my point here? you yourself made my point by conceding that all shooty armies can't win in WM.

I don't see anything in your post that contradicts my summary. Other than claiming that my summary then means the game is unbalanced.

But I suppose that's not necessarily the point. I can tell you (from experience) that plenty of all-shooty army builds have no problem at all winning, but they do require you to have plans for how to handle the common anti-shooting counters, along with a plan for how to win. Key elements for a shooty list would be mobility, defensive abilities to keep hostiles at bay, and counters to common anti-shooting abilities.

Static shooty simply isn't aggressive enough to cut it - no player worth their salt is just going to walk their caster into your gunline without a plan. Nor will your gunline be able to advance on the enemy force to claim objectives directly into the maw of a fast melee army either.

So... I guess yeah I'll agree with you. A stand and shoot only force would have a tough time in WM/H - and if we're going to call that imbalanced, then I'm cool with that also.

Kungfuhustler wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
CG gamer: Dammit, I meant to hit the ignore button. oh well. Have you ever heard of an all lasgun army? I sure haven't. But even an army without heavy/special weapons can have meltabombs en' masse! So I'm pretty sure that with good dice said army still has a chance. .

If your gonna ignore someone then do so and shut up about it.

Telling someone your gonna ignore them in multiple posts like a drama queen is sort of sad. Do it already.

Have I heard of an all lasgun Ig army? No, I wouldn't expect to see one because any Ig general worth his salt is gonna build an army with more tools present to deal with things like armor, etc.

But thats the point, no competent WM player is gonna build a one dimensional shooty army either and expect it to runt he field.

Both games reward those who build balanced forces that utilize an array of abilities and unit types. One dimensional armies can win in both systems, but they also are in danger of running into armies that are designed to counter them or that contain something they are not designed to beat. You can't build a limited/over-specialized force and then complain that it got trumped by the one thing you didnt factor for, thats the price of over specialization...

WM and 40K are no different in this regard. Your argument is weak if you continue to claim otherwise. IF you don't like WM or care to play it then so be it, that is your choice, but your assumptions about it either your own or those based upon the stated limited/false knowledge of your friends don't hold water...

Started playing Cygnar got the battle box built and painted all but one jack. The idea was it would be cheaper than playing 40K again except that it inspired me to play 40K again.... oops

Hundreds of points in Jack-heavy Cryx. Maybe WM2 will be more fun.

I have played a couple of games of WarMachine. I have a decent sized Khador force. I would like to play a bit more but only one of my friends play it. It is way different than 40k. Like the book says "Play Like You've Got A Pair". Its fast and brutal.

played WM for a while. Quit when I realized it was about combos. Just a CCG with minis really.

Some of my friends play it, but I don't think I'll be getting into it any time soon.

Oh, and don't let anyone tell you you have to have the new shinies. Models from Prime (the first release) are still extremely competitive.

This is what happened to me. I played when the game first came out with a few friends, then when they quit playing I had no one to play with for years.

I moved to Austin and asked if I could play with my old figures and was told that they won't stand up to the new ones well. It turned me off the game and they are still collecting dust.

mortal888 wrote:

Oh, and don't let anyone tell you you have to have the new shinies. Models from Prime (the first release) are still extremely competitive.

This is what happened to me. I played when the game first came out with a few friends, then when they quit playing I had no one to play with for years.

I moved to Austin and asked if I could play with my old figures and was told that they won't stand up to the new ones well. It turned me off the game and they are still collecting dust.

Sounds like the people just didnt want to play with you.

The Prime models continue to be some of the best models in the game and the core of many army builds to this day. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either an idiot or lying to you...

I play Trolls and have a cygnar force I'm looking to sell to a mate (couldn't get into the playstyle.) I'd like to play Dwarven Mercs maybe, and probably Legion of Everblight.

I really like my trolls. My three casters (Doomie, Grim and Kegslayer) give me three very different playstyles with the same basic models. I love my dire troll heavies, and my full blood troll lights. The troll infantry and cavalry is usually fairly good too.

My problems with the game revolve around the all metal nature, but at the same time I can understand that plastic is a bit expensive when you're not shifting GW esque amounts of product. And my other problem is that PPs quality control for models is piss poor. They allow through far too many badly posed or poorly proportioned models. Even through Troll Champions are one of their best units, I will never buy them in their current form. They're just too damn fugly.

I want to play pretty badly. None of my friends or anyone at my FLGS is even interested enough to try. Feels bad, man.

Played it didn't really like it.

Reasons;
I didn't like the 'king' aspect of it. Lose one figure and game over, which means that one small mistake/error cost the game.

Combo's. So in order to to be competitive I have to be fully aware of every and all special abilities with an eidetic memory.

Points? Now, I don't exactly know about this, but isn't there an upper points limit, after which you need to go to Hordes? (So another system with an abnoxious amount of additional special rules to memorise)

Factions. I played recently in a club league, all figures supplied by our WM Fanantic, all matchups were Cryx/Cygnar. Some factions appear to be easier to 'learn' than others. So in our league of 'unwashed' gamers, all things being equal, the Cryx won in every matchup. And when I say all things being equal, each side had the basic starter box, and neither player had any experience in WM.
Where things wern't equal, was that those players who did have experience wanted Cryx. Hmmm.

If WM is your thing, go for it. But leave me out.

Cheers

Andrew

AndrewC wrote:Points? Now, I don't exactly know about this, but isn't there an upper points limit, after which you need to go to Hordes? (So another system with an abnoxious amount of additional special rules to memorise)

This is 100% false.

"Hordes" is a separate but fully compatible game focused on the "wild" factions (druids, trolls, etc., etc.) of the Warmachine world. They use the same rules engine for the most part, but the warlocks (the character leaders in Hordes) use a different system for their magic and controlling/interacting with their beasts then the Warcasters on the warmachine side use for their magic and controlling their robots.

In GW terms it would be like if you could play WHFB armies against 40k armies. Hordes and Warmachine are designed and balanced to be played against each other or as separate entities.

CT GAMER wrote:
This is 100% false.

Which is why I phrased it as a question. With the limit of one caster and only a certain number of "tokens/orders" I took it as there was a certain level beyond which it becomes unplayable.

Cheers

Andrew

Played a game under the new MKII rules yesterday, the first game since it came out years ago. This game rocks! I can't wait to play again next week.

Do you think I should try it???


I do not like the warjack minis, they are to comical and cartoony, but the rest, especially the Warcasters, are so cool!

I like what I saw when I looked at the mini war gaming khador army.


linky http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/hUdDmk2HHasD


Do you think that khador or cryx is a good army?

Hmmm... Basically from what I hear, its Chess meets Steroids?
Saw the Miniwargamming intro and it looked damn good though.

With this WM is broken, 40k is broken, get over it you girls, if you want a game not 'broken' try WHFB or LOTR.

The game is fun to be sure, but my eight year old has picked up the rules in about four months of playing and is now beating seasoned guys that have been playing for 10+ years. 40K is about spamming the uber units and running the lists that the so called "pros" tells us are the only lists/units that win on this and other forums. 40k ISN't tactically deep. It has rather simple mechanics and very predictable builds for each army. One can look at a given list and predict exactly what it's purpose iss and what the player will do with it. 40K is about kick ass models and all the hobby potential it offers first and foremost and the great setting and backstory to boot.. Its a great game, but if one wants to claim that WM isn't tactical one better realize that claiming 40K is or is more so is talking utter garbage...

QFT.

Im probably going to start collecting Hordes, most likely the Wood Elf-type guys soon. Have read Warmachine and whilst I think the background is lacking the rules seem great as do the combos.
40k is still darn fun but after X amount of years its always nice to broaden your horizons/try something different, although Im a little wary of the cost of WM, moreso if you want to play the larger scale games.

Never played it and most likly wont start either. But then again who knows

Not really interested, for a number of reasons.

Too bad too, since I do like some of their models.

Overall it's "meh" for me. Some of the Cryx models are really cool, but I really don't like the backround. I like the whole "Sci-Fi armies blowing the hell out of each other and GRIMDAAAAAARRRRRKK!!!!"

-cough-

Anyway, not interested in the least.

I still have such a backlog of 40K to paint, even without my 40-odd unbuilt boys, I don't really want to start a new force right now, regardless to which game it belongs. That said, the starter force boxes seem like a decent deal and the basic rules available online look very playable. I could definitely see myself getting into it (Warmachine much more so than Hordes) if I had the cash/time/opportunities for play. For now, I'll stick to my 40K, but Warmachine would be my next stop, should I later choose to switch miniature wargames, for whatever reason.

My friend plays it...I dont.

I personally do not have any interest in the game for a number of reasons.

Don't like the rules.
Don't like the background.
Don't like the armies.
Don't like the models.
Don't like the Warjacks.
Don't like the scenarios.

And some other ones too. But you get the picture.

I've looked into it several times, as I do like many of the models. However, ever Warmachine mini I would collect is one less unit in my existing 40k army. Plus Dark Eldar has to be coming out at some point and I'm saving my pennies for that.

I ogle Warmachine miniatures but cringe from knowing that those top heavy beauties are metal.

I think the Warmachine mechs just look plain goofy.

Besides, it's impossible to get your hands on them (or any model company other then GW) from Holland.

Played 40k for around 9 years now.

Played Warmachine now for a month

Rules are so much better then the junk Games workshop comes out with.

Selling my tyranids down to 1 army, ill never buy a GW model again.

Might one day sell the other army and be done with the game since the rules and codex creep get worse and worse.

After a couple months of playing it, meh.

Fun game, but I miss WHFB sometimes, so I may just end up having Mercs and Cryx, then expand on my WoC 'till the end.

It's hard to get a hold of the fluff, and most of it isn't too great either. Not fond of centering the fluff on the 'casters either, it feels a lot less like a fantasy world and more like a soap opera where none of the characters die off and they just add newer characters...

Don't like warmachine, will never play it.

I have seen a few video demos and a couple of real games and though it was BORING. Reading about it I though it would be a good alternative to WF40K but in reality with a slow player it is worse then 40K and even regular games are really really slow. I have had faster chess games then the way War machine seem to play. I am disappointed.

Actually I voted as not interested in General but I should have said Other (A better choice to have available was Tried the game, hated it and am no longer interested.) I bought a Khador army some time ago, painted up several warjacks and a caster and some infantry then played it and hated the game. Tried it twice, did nothing for me as I thought the mechanics were a bit broken, or at least as taught to me by a couple of experienced players who had all the armies memorized and could tell me what they would/could do to prevent me from countering and then tabling me. Those games and watching others lead to further discussion where it was apparent that if one could be bothered to memorize the units and cards the outcome was almost predetermined.

Decided the game was not for me and I gave my army away to a friend and have never looked back and have no intention of doing so

I wouldn't play it but i am sometimes tempted to get a model or two for conversions

Have a nice cryx force but lack of opponents and the 'builds' mentality mean that its like a game of magic the gathering with miniatures.

Interested in Warmachine...doubt I'll start another hobby game though

40K and airsoft suck up too much of my money!

I played a few games and found it pretty meh.

Not good enough for me too spend money on at the moment.

maybe when Christmas comes around.

I don't like the look of the models and I already have 2 sci fi games.

Warhammer 40k for my army/hordes fix.

Battle Tech for my skirmish fix.

Mech Warrior for my roll play fix.

Looks interesting. I do not really like the background as much as Warhammer though. I will probably start it eventually, whenever I have the time and money.

Me and a friend tried it out one time. We were in a situation where neither one of us could devote alot of time and space for 40k or fantasy. We each bought a starter, put together the models, played a game, and never touched the models since.

I dunno what it was, but it just didnt catch on like we had hoped. Maybe we will dust it off and try again someday.

Nah I never heard of it untill a little while ago,I just don't see it as being fun.

I like the Warjacks (I thinks thats right) and some of the other models but the big issue for me is the cost.
The local store that do stock it charge like a wounded bull for the gear so high prices and low model count make an
univiting purchase.

What is it in the first place.

After nearly a decade of GW, Warmachine has been a godsend.

At this years adepticon I recieved a free Cryx starter which completely broke my reluctance to get into the game...I was like most people here and I worried that the game would be too "meta-driven" and I'd have to change my list and buy new models constantly to keep up but this really isn't the case.

For anyone on the fence, give it a try with some proxied models, I believe you can get free quickstart rules on the privateer press website. Obviously, if you don't like the minis or fluff the game probably isn't for you, but to everyone else, give it a try...The worst thing that can happen is you'll like it and have a new habit to support!

I voted "Other" because I generally dislike metal figures, regardless of how nice they may or may not be sculpted.

I don't like the whole steampunk feel to warmachine, and i just generally don't like the look of the models. I love the look of most 40k armies.

I love me some Warmahordes. Steampunk-riffic and, in my experience, more tactical than either flavor of Warhammer.

My main problem is I don't like enough of the figures from one faction to make an army.

I like about 5 warjacks total across all factions and hardly any of the units. Also haveing 2-3 of the same exact model in a unit of 10 dudes is a little off putting. I like to be able to pose every model diffrently.

I play Warmachine. I recently just started a Khador army. The game is interesting for what it does. All of the ways the miniatures combine is fun. The game is lacking in fluff and in my opinion the Jacks look like crap. It took me a while to get used to what the jacks look like. They look silly to me. Its definitely not 40k, but I find myself still preferring 40k since I don't have to memorize what every unit my opponent uses does. It gets annoying to remember all of that.

I like Warmachine, excellent ruleset, but I'm going to stay out of it, since my attention is going more and more towards 15mm/6mm figures.

However, to anyone who's on the fence - try it. If you'd like, wait until the 2 player set comes out, since it's such a wonderful deal. Or pick up a pair of battleboxes and enough models to get yourself to 15-20 points.

I would be interested but no one in my LGS plays it so it would be a waste of money for me.

I played for a while, and if anyone at my FLGS played I would play again. I think the rules are well done, and PP doesn't really put anything out that they haven't done extensive playtesting on (imho) unlike some OTHER games I regularly play.


That said, my 2 big beefs with warmachine:

1) it seems that some factions trump other factions, i.e. Menoth beats cygnar while khador beats menoth while cryx beats khador while cygnar beats cryx. Not really an exact truth, but fairly close.

2) the rules back when the game was released were built around one caster controlling a couple jacks and MAYBE backed up by an infantry unit or two. Giant steam spewing robots beating the hell out of each other is why I started playing. Now its almost rare to see more than one jack in an army.

I'm not really interested in it, but it is for a number of the reasons listed above, but only each in part. That is to say, I like a few of the models and I see other models used well in conversions.

Don't play... I hate the system.

I tried and tried to get into it, but there was too much record keeping. It's bad enough that you have to constantly scribble in those damned cards, but there are also the little spell markers to keep track of and the other sort of status markers, soul tokens, micromanaging all these different radii, it gave me a headache. It's basically Magic: the Gathering with miniatures.

Although I have bought a Khador starter set, not got anyone to play, and barely started painting them, so put down 'intend to play/collect'.

Well, I own a 50 point army for every faction, and a complete collection for Minions and Retribution. Add to that being a Press Ganger, and yeah, I'm rather invested into it. I like that game (clearly,) and I can respect if it's not for everyone. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about it, though!

I play Warmachine and I love it. The rules are excellent and a lot more balanced/functioning, than GW:s. Some of the models are goofy but those that are well done, are really well done . Also the price of the models are 100% right IMHO.

Other - I'm interested in the game, but the Top Heavy Jacks are such a turn off.

This is a great way to describe the game:

It's basically Magic: the Gathering with miniatures.

I liked it, but my local press ganger was a total tool, and it ruined the game for me. I'd still like to give it another shot, but have yet to find the motivation.

I owened a FLGS and when I closed down had a ton of minis for it. I poked at them, tried game, then gave all the open and unopen minis to the person that lives across the street from me.

would totally use bitz to kitbash for 40k - they have a great couple looks for my sisters!