A kid came into our LGS today looking at some 40k mini's, and when asked if she wanted to see how the game works this was her reply, "My parents said that this game is too violent and that it would be better if I spent my money on video games"....... WTH is the world coming to? 40K thought to me more violent than most video games??!! There's no swearing, no violence, not even violent theme's (other than things like a dreadnought holding a dead ork or something like that). I don't think she was joking either.......
No 40k but they can play WaW? Oh please. You can gib anyone you want with almost every gun. You can light people on fire and everyone has the mouth of the superfluous pissed trucker. Parents need to get their effing priorities straight. If I had kids they wouldn't touch an M game for quite some time, much less Cod WaW...
That's pretty hilarious.
If anything, WArhammer, be it Fantasy or 40k, is LESS violent than video games.
Video games have all the blood graphics and the violence in movement while Warhammer only has armed miniatures just standing there. >.>
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Lanceradvanced wrote:And of course, there are absolutly no video games out there that somehow manage not to have violence in them... *goes back to tetris*
While that is true, do the kid's parents really intend to restrict their children to nonviolent videogames?
InquisitorBob wrote:That's pretty hilarious.
If anything, WArhammer, be it Fantasy or 40k, is LESS violent than video games.
Video games have all the blood graphics and the violence in movement while Warhammer only has armed miniatures just standing there. >.>
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Lanceradvanced wrote:And of course, there are absolutly no video games out there that somehow manage not to have violence in them... *goes back to tetris*
While that is true, do the kid's parents really intend to restrict their children to nonviolent videogames?
Rico wrote:No 40k but they can play WaW? Oh please. You can gib anyone you want with almost every gun. You can light people on fire and everyone has the mouth of the superfluous pissed trucker. Parents need to get their effing priorities straight. If I had kids they wouldn't touch an M game for quite some time, much less Cod WaW...
People never cease to amaze me.
Rico.
Could it be that some parents are not ACTUALLY paying attention to what their kids are doing? Heavens no....
Comming from a background where all my media intake was censored, I can saftly say censorship does far more harm than good. Besides kids will always find a way around it, for me it was the library and my FLGS which had some of the books I was not allowed to read. That and INTRAWEB SKILLZ!
Cocaloch wrote:Comming from a background where all my media intake was censored, I can saftly say censorship does far more harm than good. Besides kids will always find a way around it, for me it was the library and my FLGS which had some of the books I was not allowed to read. That and INTRAWEB SKILLZ!
Yes but that doesn't mean a little bit of censoring is good. Are you saying that parents should go let their kids play GTA 4 at the age of 6?
CT GAMER wrote:I think you all may be missing the point.
When I owned a store I had some parents who let there son play and hang out in the store but would not let there daughter of the same age do likewise.
Eventually they confided that the older (adults)gamers hanging around a store full of kids creeped them out with regards to there daughter...
My younger sister plays and she's younger than me. If I were a parent I would rather my child at GW alone than some random clothing store or the mall.
EDIT- Considering age. The age she was I wouldn't mind if my own daughter (if I had one) was there for awhile alone, but then again it might be because I'm a gamer and know almost everyone at my local GW. I find that GW is safer than the mall or a regular store.
InquisitorBob wrote: While that is true, do the kid's parents really intend to restrict their children to nonviolent videogames?
Apparenly... that's one of those things, that might be called um.. what's the word.. oh yes.."parenting" And since they seem to have enough of a lock on the kids wallet to keep him from buying 40k, I don't see why their parental control would suddenly slip once they enter a Gamestop..
Meanwhile, overheard at B&N where I work..
Mom:"How about this book?"
Kid:"But mom LOOK AT THE BACK! IT SAYS ZEUS" (Percy Jackson)
Mom:"It looks like a good book"
Kid:"I DON'T WANT TO READ A BOOK THAT HAS A GOD NOT FROM MY RELIGION!"
Face it, the Warhammer 40k setting is not exactly a fun and happy place (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Warhammer40000), and some parents -might- be concerned about it, and might direct their kids not nonexistant supply of well made, but not as violent videogames out there..
Just because -you- think of the latest FPS out there, doesn't mean the kid does when he says video game..
Lanceradvanced wrote:Meanwhile, overheard at B&N where I work..
Mom:"How about this book?" Kid:"But mom LOOK AT THE BACK! IT SAYS ZEUS" (Percy Jackson) Mom:"It looks like a good book" Kid:"I DON'T WANT TO READ A BOOK THAT HAS A GOD NOT FROM MY RELIGION!"
He should be a Wiccan. Then every god will be from his religion.
Also, as interesting side note, two posts down from this one there is currently a thread about a space marine army named The Cannibal Legion.
I would certainly try to keep my kids away from 40K, just as I would try to keep them away from heroin.
The two are comparable in both price and addictiveness after all.
Just had a look at tvtropes and found something amusing, under 'One Million' If the following (emphasis mine)
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. Nobody ever comments zilch about seeing entire Redshirt Armies being blown apart. But when Kamina dies, the whole cast spends three full chapters mourning his death.
Just made me chuckle at the thought of a space marine walking into each GW and blasting away at the staff
garret wrote:Maybe the parents were trying to protect there kid from what they see as a socially awkard people that they think play 40k.
So by that logic are l33t video gamers socially slowed? I think I see what you are saying Garrett, but at least with 40k you actually get to look somebody in the eye. Listening some 12 year old screaming into his X-Box live mic is not my idea of a good time.
Edit: If a parent seriously thinks that 40k is too violent then they might as well join an Amish community or something (nothing against the Amish). I grew up shooting things with bb-guns and throwing rocks at bottles. How could collecting (and ideally painting) little plastic men be that bad? I think parents nowadays need to spend a little less time watching TLC and trying to keep their tan perfect, and just spend sometime trying to raise their child in a way that won't cause the kids to become either emo or a slut.
I can't believe I'm going to be a parent in 3 weeks. How time is flying.
I played video games rated far and above my age at the time I got them, same with movies.
I've never run someone over and then gone back and shot them in the head. I hesitate even to kill a fly (and will capture it and throw it outside instead), yet I love violent games and to a lesser extent, films.
So long as the parents are aware of what their kids are doing so they can step in, that is fine.
As much as I enjoyed doom and quake as a young 'un, there are some things that I would pause in letting my theoretical children do.
If they were interested in, say, wargaming, and I would not be all that happy letting them hang around a GW store on their own.
Some of the people in there (especially the staff I have found) creep me out slightly. I would certainly supervise them until I had either made sure that they would be safe, or had gotten to the age where I thought that they would not be in danger of anything untowards happening to them.
The same with any other activity, I would take a look at it and make sure that I was happy with them doing it before I just put a blanket ban on them doing it. If they still really wanted to do it, and it was something like the situation above, I would supervise them while they did it.
I can't think off the top of my head of anything that I would actively stop my child doing though.
It is when you see parents just paying for 18 cert games and films (games are something I particularly notice parents buying for their kids) without taking a blind bit of notice of what it is they are buying that I worry. Especially since the kids often arn't even big enough to see over the counter...
At least those parents were concerned about what their child was doing and had access to, even if they could perhaps be accused of being a little too cotton wool about it.
Heh.
My parents used to try and control what kinda videogames I played. They encouraged RPG's (and I thank them for that, it's how I learned english, it's my 2nd language ) and wouldn't buy me violent platform games.
Then one day my father bought me a platform shooter called Operation Logic Bomb, thinking I'd have to use smarts to play it cause it had the word "logic" in it. Har har.
So yeah... between that and them not minding I used to spend countless hours playing GoldenEye with friends, killing each other all day long, I seriously doubt video game control is any useful in the long run.
Unsurprisingly, they encouraged my playing Warhammer 40k (that must have been 2nd edition back then!) because A) painting and modelling helped me develop artistic talent and manual dexterity, and B) the game itself requires strategy, which they encouraged.
So to expand on my earlier post.... Parents should seriously try to know what a game is about before saying Yay or Nay.
My dad let me play duke nukem, doom and quake 1+2 on his PC when I was less than 10. I turned out OK. *cough*
Seriously though, 40k is the least violent game ever. There is no blood spraying across the table or anything. Granted, there may be adult themes but mollycoddling your children is just going to lead to problems in later life. If they grow up thinking life is peachy and everything is nice they are going to get a *nasty* shock.
I do recall reading a story either in the old Tau or Eldar codex about a group of rangers who get ambushed by a squad of Kroot. Anyone remember that? The last paragraph is about the reanger's last sight was the kroot shaper pulling her heart out of her chest and eating it. That story scarred me as much and M&M's song "stan" did (when I was in 6th grade).
I like to think that the parents want to be able to have there kids sit in front of a TV so the parents aren't bothered instead of having their kid come up to them every 5 mins of painting and saying "LOOK AT WHAT I DID! LOOK AT THIS! LOOK AT THAT!", you get the pic. My girlfriend is sick of it just as much as my mom used to be.
I have known some kids my age who were protected from the real world. My ex-best friend is still so sheltered that he gets nervous when he sees me in tight jeans, and my younger cousin grew up being sheltered too, then, like all kids, started exploring the real world, no he's failed to graduate HS and just smokes a bunch of pot.
Wow, sounds like ignorant parents to me. You would think this hobby would be great for kids because of the imagination and reading it involves. The only thing I can see is all the daemons scaring the little ones.
Hyperbole much? 40k is an explicitly violent setting that isn't everyone's cup of tea. Forbidding their kids to play it won't deny them any "real world" experience.
Digganob wrote:Hyperbole much? 40k is an explicitly violent setting that isn't everyone's cup of tea. Forbidding their kids to play it won't deny them any "real world" experience.
It's all imaginary. Kids wouldn't be exposed to it firsthand.
It's no more harmful than them playing with toy guns.
Anything related to violence in video games - Teen to Mature rating which is from age 13 to 17.
Its funny that this day in age we find it "ok" for kids to experince mutilating someone else physically in a simulation. So is it true then that our generation sees sex as something worse than violence against another person?
40k is violent, but not so much at other games out there.
Digganob wrote:Hyperbole much? 40k is an explicitly violent setting that isn't everyone's cup of tea. Forbidding their kids to play it won't deny them any "real world" experience.
Yes it will. It denies them the opportunity to learn why personal hygiene is important. It denies them the opportunity to learn why exactly they want to get a job and move out, rather than live in their mother's basement until they turn 40.
I am a product of the video game era. I was playing every game out there from 8yrs old on up. I actually stopped playing vidoe games to make more time for 40K. Painting takes time. Is the world violent? Yes. Is 40K violent? Yes.
I think one of the other posters had it right for the parent to monitor what the child does. I have a daughter who is 2 and I let her play with my dice, sprue cutters and paint bottles. Do keep a constant watch over her to make sure she doesn't put her eye out or swallow something? Hell yes. I don't let her play with glue since the fumes are not good for her but I want her to experience things.
Some parents do use 40K stores as a crutch. They drop there bratty kid off for a couple hours to annoy the serious well behaved gamers. Fortunately the parents in our group don't do that and supervise what their kid does and who the interact with. That is good parenting IMO
AdeptArtificer wrote:I am a product of the video game era. I was playing every game out there from 8yrs old on up. I actually stopped playing vidoe games to make more time for 40K. Painting takes time. Is the world violent? Yes. Is 40K violent? Yes.
I think one of the other posters had it right for the parent to monitor what the child does. I have a daughter who is 2 and I let her play with my dice, sprue cutters and paint bottles. Do keep a constant watch over her to make sure she doesn't put her eye out or swallow something? Hell yes. I don't let her play with glue since the fumes are not good for her but I want her to experience things.
Some parents do use 40K stores as a crutch. They drop there bratty kid off for a couple hours to annoy the serious well behaved gamers. Fortunately the parents in our group don't do that and supervise what their kid does and who the interact with. That is good parenting IMO
My younger sister is only allowed at GW if I'm watching her even though she's 9, meanwhile some other parents drop off their 8 year old for the day at GW. My parents would never allow my sister to be there alone. It's not the staffs job to watch kids. It's like dropping your kid off at walmart for the day and expecting the staff to watch him/her.
Skarwael wrote:It's all imaginary. Kids wouldn't be exposed to it firsthand.
Even imaginary things can be deemed inappropriate. Different parents will judge the game differently, and not solely based on the fact that it is fictional.
It's no more harmful than them playing with toy guns.
And no more valuable. I don't see the big deal, nor the big loss.
I have family that sounds exactly like the one described in the OP's post. They're heavily Religious, and already try and tell me I'm going to hell for playing a game in which a half-dead guy is worshipped as a god. If I reply to this at all it's usually with "I'd have to believe in Heaven and Hell first" which usually shuts them up.
They also won't let their kids play it because they think it could corrupt their childrens' "good Christian values", and because playing a game where their kids command armies to kill eachother is too violent and is not something "God would approve of" (...Crusades, anyone?)
At the same time, these kids own video games like GTA: SA, CoD4, and the AvP RTS, not to mention they have movies like the Matrix Trilogy in their collection...
metallifan wrote:I have family that sounds exactly like the one described in the OP's post. They're heavily Religious, and already try and tell me I'm going to hell for playing a game in which a half-dead guy is worshipped as a god. If I reply to this at all it's usually with "I'd have to believe in Heaven and Hell first" which usually shuts them up.
They also won't let their kids play it because they think it could corrupt their childrens' "good Christian values", and because playing a game where their kids command armies to kill eachother is too violent and is not something "God would approve of" (...Crusades, anyone?)
At the same time, these kids own video games like GTA: SA, CoD4, and the AvP RTS, not to mention they have movies like the Matrix Trilogy in their collection...
Erm... so 40K was doing what again?
Ya sorry I had meant to put this in the dakka discussion.
It's 40K related, so I don't see anything wrong with putting it here. What I meant by "40K was doing what again" was: "So... despite the fact that you let your kids play brainrot like Grand Theft Auto" and watch movies deemed 'anti-religious' when you're trying to teach your kids religious values, you won't let them play a miniatures game because it has guns and Catholic influences in the Imperial Religion?"
metallifan wrote:It's 40K related, so I don't see anything wrong with putting it here. What I meant by "40K was doing what again" was: "So... despite the fact that you let your kids play brainrot like Grand Theft Auto" and watch movies deemed 'anti-religious' when you're trying to teach your kids religious values, you won't let them play a miniatures game because it has guns and Catholic influences in the Imperial Religion?"
lol oh ok. But ya I know what you mean. I'm a religious jew and my parents know that it's just a game and a hobby and don't care if I play it. Even some of the other more religious people I know said that the mini's look cool
EDIT- Now if I started yelling BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GODS! or started praying to the emperor etc. all the time THEN they might have a problem with me playing 40k.
CT GAMER wrote:What her parents really meant was: "we don't want you hanging around with creepy fat dudes in their thirties who play with toys..."
I think CT Gamer got it right. Parents tell her "too violent" but they mean "we can watch you play video games".
How old was she? This isn't exactly a game for 12-year-olds. (P.S. I'm surprised a young girl would even be interested).
Also, you could have told her she didn't NEED to play, and that lots of people just collect and paint them however they like. Gaming isn't mandatory.
orkishlyorkish wrote:EDIT- Now if I started yelling BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GODS! or started praying to the emperor etc. all the time THEN they might have a problem with me playing 40k.
Whats so bad about violence anyway? Let the kid know what the real world is like. Its all not about puppy dogs and kittens. sometimes its about blowing them up.
Yeah.... my parent's really tried to raise me in the dark, but i came too and looked around me.
nuff bout me yeah what's with that you won't let you'r kids see two people making babies, yet.... you will let them watch a guy strangle another with intestines.
War is violent. The stories of war, fictional or not, are violent. With that being said, 40K is nowhere near as violent as some of the video games out there. That, and when does a video game spark even a fraction of the creativity that this hobby does? Besides the amazing paint jobs I've seen, I have seen phenominal conversions or sculpture taken from the imagination of a player and executed with a skill and craftsmanship that takes years to achieve, and that you will never find from the same time spent in front of a video game.
I'm a big fan of video games and violence in video games doesn't really bother me, because I can seperate reality from fantasy. The fact that people can point to one medium and claim it's bad due to the same violence found in another medium that is embraced is a little silly IMO.
There are people out there who think modern guns are too violent to be represented in toy form but who are happy to see toy knights armed with axes, knives and so forth. The sillier part is that more people die through road accidents than weapons and yet car related toys and games are considered acceptable.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just remembered this amusing fact about these parents who wouldn't let their son have anything to do with guns or other "violent" toys. One morning at breakfast the son bit enough out of his piece of toast to form an L shape; he then held the piece of toast like a pistol, pointed it at his mum and said bang. I'd loved to have seen the look on her face as she realised that her pc attempts at social engineering had failed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
metallifan wrote:It's 40K related, so I don't see anything wrong with putting it here. What I meant by "40K was doing what again" was: "So... despite the fact that you let your kids play brainrot like Grand Theft Auto" and watch movies deemed 'anti-religious' when you're trying to teach your kids religious values, you won't let them play a miniatures game because it has guns and Catholic influences in the Imperial Religion?"
I still find it amazing that there are parents out there who wont let their kids have anything to do with Harry Potter because they think the stories promote witchcraft.
I have to deal with someone who is 17 and parents still shelterd by his parents. There is some serious long term damage there man. I mean hes to soft and cant assert himself. So i have to then assert for him. When you shelter you kid from violence and sex and the world in general for to long they can end up real screwed up.
I wish i had the words and the time to show how messed up how screwed up he is.
Lanceradvanced wrote:And of course, there are absolutly no video games out there that somehow manage not to have violence in them... *goes back to bejeweled*
garret wrote:I have to deal with someone who is 17 and parents still shelterd by his parents. There is some serious long term damage there man. I mean hes to soft and cant assert himself. So i have to then assert for him. When you shelter you kid from violence and sex and the world in general for to long they can end up real screwed up.
I wish i had the words and the time to show how messed up how screwed up he is.
QFT. I used to have a friend that became a hardcore stalker after he found out this chick didn't like him. Why? Because he was sheltered and used to getting everything he wanted handed to him by his 'rents. We almost called the cops on the guy after he climbed into her living room window at midnight. But my buddy took da' Orky road and decided to beat the hell out of him instead
Billie_Joe wrote:I do recall reading a story either in the old Tau or Eldar codex about a group of rangers who get ambushed by a squad of Kroot. Anyone remember that? The last paragraph is about the reanger's last sight was the kroot shaper pulling her heart out of her chest and eating it. That story scarred me as much and M&M's song "stan" did (when I was in 6th grade)
I remember something along those lines. It's more likely the Tau codex than Eldar, but i'm not sure if it's in the old one or the new one.
Besides the amazing paint jobs I've seen, I have seen phenominal conversions or sculpture taken from the imagination of a player and executed with a skill and craftsmanship that takes years to achieve
Billie_Joe wrote:I do recall reading a story either in the old Tau or Eldar codex about a group of rangers who get ambushed by a squad of Kroot. Anyone remember that? The last paragraph is about the reanger's last sight was the kroot shaper pulling her heart out of her chest and eating it. That story scarred me as much and M&M's song "stan" did (when I was in 6th grade)
I remember something along those lines. It's more likely the Tau codex than Eldar, but i'm not sure if it's in the old one or the new one.
I also remember it. IIRC I believe it's the last story in the old codex.
TaintedSoul wrote:Wow, sounds like ignorant parents to me. You would think this hobby would be great for kids because of the imagination and reading it involves. The only thing I can see is all the daemons scaring the little ones.
Don't forget all the math that gets kids to buy that new IG army .
I would agree that WH40k is a great game for kids, perhaps 10+ though. There is a lot of math if you want to play smart, and most tactics involve a bit of strategical knowledge (a bit... wars are simply not won in inches).
After thinking about it I would say that in general war-gaming is a fantastic alternative to video games. Video games are fun, and when enjoyed in moderation have absolutely no negative effect on your average kid, besides they have age restrictions on some video games. Personally I think most people (yes kids are people too) can handle the more subtle nuances of the game, nothing wrong with gore objective markers, they are made of plastic and paint right?
CT GAMER wrote:What her parents really meant was: "we don't want you hanging around with creepy fat dudes in their thirties who play with toys..."
I think CT Gamer got it right. Parents tell her "too violent" but they mean "we can watch you play video games".
How old was she? This isn't exactly a game for 12-year-olds. (P.S. I'm surprised a young girl would even be interested).
Also, you could have told her she didn't NEED to play, and that lots of people just collect and paint them however they like. Gaming isn't mandatory.
I think you've got it a bit wrong. It was the store employee talking to her. Me and some other people painting overheard since they were about 3 feet away from the painting table.
WTF?!? There are 6-year olds who play CoD 5, one of the most violent games ever, and yet parents say that 40k is violent? Ok, I admit that the theme of humanity struggling in a hostile universe is sort of more mature and not the kind of fruity everyone loves everyone and the fairies give magical toys out, but you can see it in the park!!!! It's like on the discovery channel. You know when the the ant colony is invaded by fire ants and a long struggle begins? It is the same concept. The ants are humanity and the fire ants are the xenos threat. When will parents learn?
deadratman wrote: You know when the the ant colony is invaded by fire ants and a long struggle begins? It is the same concept. The ants are humanity and the fire ants are the xenos threat. When will parents learn?
Hey! I for one am a fan of tau and eldar. The tau started out peaceful and the humans attacked them so I think you have it backwards.
Emperors Faithful wrote:no, the tau incited human worlds to revolt and then annexed them. The Damocles crusade was the Imperiums retribution.
Exactly. If it weren't for the IG stubbornness, humanity would be with the greater good although the whole greater good thing is kind of confusing about how they worship it...
...yeah, Everyone wants to be a space commie. Humanity has learnt from the past that trusting xenos gets you enslaved. Be honest mate, it's "The Greater Good...for Tau/Fishfaces"
To be fair to the parents. The fluff of the game is VIOLENT. This is a WAR game. It depicts daemons and burning heretics. As a game, it is no more violent then chess. However it is simulated war. Half the fun is in the imagining the scene as it takes place. No different then playing with GI Joe or transformers. However I do respect a parents decision not to allow their kids access to war toys of any nature. I would not empose this restrictions on my own kids, when I have them, but I do respect their decision. However if it was a choice between GI Joe and 40k I would let them do 40k in a heart beat. Reason...its creative (Painting, modeling and the like), teaches tactics, encourages social behavior (more or less), requires thought and planning and the like and is competitive in nature.
Moderation in all things. I played football, track, wrestling and basketball. Was also in theatre and played D&D. Did all these things till I finished collage. Parents can moderate what their kids do, but at the end of the day they are going to do what they want anyway. Best they can do is allow lots of options and gently knudge in one direction. Like buy 5 used marines a month but get brand new base ball bat and glove and take the kid to a base ball game. If after that they still wanna play...show some interest and see if it really is that bad. Hell my D&D stuff was old and beat up. But my kleats were always shiny and new. It worked on me looking back. But in the end I just did both but got to try lots of stuff.
Just what I would do...Sure not many would agree with that.
@Sha1emade: Yeah, spot on there. Qoute for Fething Truth.
@LunaHound: Mabye a bit of both? But it is true that 40k, while more creative, is definitley more expensive than video games. We don't know what the motivation of THESE parent where though.
Emperors Faithful wrote:@Sha1emade: Yeah, spot on there. Qoute for Fething Truth.
@LunaHound: Mabye a bit of both? But it is true that 40k, while more creative, is definitley more expensive than video games. We don't know what the motivation of THESE parent where though.
Yup. All that we can do is imagine what their reasons might have been.
cadbren wrote:There are people out there who think modern guns are too violent to be represented in toy form but who are happy to see toy knights armed with axes, knives and so forth. The sillier part is that more people die through road accidents than weapons and yet car related toys and games are considered acceptable.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I just remembered this amusing fact about these parents who wouldn't let their son have anything to do with guns or other "violent" toys. One morning at breakfast the son bit enough out of his piece of toast to form an L shape; he then held the piece of toast like a pistol, pointed it at his mum and said bang. I'd loved to have seen the look on her face as she realised that her pc attempts at social engineering had failed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
metallifan wrote:It's 40K related, so I don't see anything wrong with putting it here. What I meant by "40K was doing what again" was: "So... despite the fact that you let your kids play brainrot like Grand Theft Auto" and watch movies deemed 'anti-religious' when you're trying to teach your kids religious values, you won't let them play a miniatures game because it has guns and Catholic influences in the Imperial Religion?"
I still find it amazing that there are parents out there who wont let their kids have anything to do with Harry Potter because they think the stories promote witchcraft.
For me there is no dark witchcraft.
its the people who use it for dark you have to keep an eye out for.
hmmm, I would be thinking about whether or not THERE IS Witchcraft at all. But if there was, THEn it would depend on what you use it for. It is the person, not the power.
There are 6-year olds who play CoD 5, one of the most violent games ever, and yet parents say that 40k is violent?
See, this is the thing that bothers me about this whole thread, yeah there are lots of violent video games out there,-but we don't know if that's what the kid is playing-, sure it'd be a monumental case of hypocrisy if the kid was, and it may not be the smartest move to keep a kid sheltered, but the simple fact is some parents can and do keep their kids away from such things regardless of media..
cadbren wrote:There are people out there who think modern guns are too violent to be represented in toy form but who are happy to see toy knights armed with axes, knives and so forth. The sillier part is that more people die through road accidents than weapons and yet car related toys and games are considered acceptable.
I understand what you're saying regarding guns. Weapons are weapons. But your last point is odd. It's because a car is a tool intended for travel, and not a tool for intended for killing others. Are you actually saying you don't recognize the difference?
metallifan wrote:They also won't let their kids play it because they think it could corrupt their childrens' "good Christian values", and because playing a game where their kids command armies to kill eachother is too violent and is not something "God would approve of" (...Crusades, anyone?)
At the same time, these kids own video games like GTA: SA, CoD4, and the AvP RTS, not to mention they have movies like the Matrix Trilogy in their collection...
Note that doesn't make a case against limiting what children are exposed to. That just means your relatives are clueless, hypocritical parents.
deadratman wrote:WTF?!? There are 6-year olds who play CoD 5, one of the most violent games ever, and yet parents say that 40k is violent?
Six year olds shouldn't being playing CoD either.
One of the biggest fallacies going in this thread is the implication that not allowing young children to play violent/adult games somehow shelters them from the real world. It doesn't. There's no connection.
How you make sure your children aren't sheltered is more about teaching them how make decisions, stand on their own, accept responsibility for their actions, etc. Children have been engaging in pretend violence, etc. with their play probably since the dawn of mankind. But that doesn't mean you should expose them to any amount of realistic violence regardless of age. Things have their place and time. You allow them things/expose them to stuff when you feel they're mature enough to understand and handle it.
I get the sense that many of you aren't that far removed from childhood, and you're still in touch with the childhood notion of parents keeping you down. When you're older and a parent, you'll see how parenting is far more complicated than you realize.
orkishlyorkish wrote:EDIT- Now if I started yelling BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GODS! or started praying to the emperor etc. all the time THEN they might have a problem with me playing 40k.
I've said grace to the Emperor once
I pray to Slaanesh every time i throw my dice. I'm beginning to think there is no Slaanesh...
Did someone say Second Life? That is one massive exposure to the true nature of humanity. You are given an infinite world where you can do whatever you want and be whatever you want at any time. As soon as I got done with the tutorial, I flew 20 feet and ran into a forest of sex shops.
What her parents really meant was: "we don't want you hanging around with creepy fat dudes in their thirties who play with toys..."
The above is QFT and probably the most on the money comment I've read in the 3 pages.
I'd love to get the # of posters on this thread that are parents. Having a parent and being a parent are far apart.
I have a good friend that says there are 3 things you can't claim knowledge or comment on until you actually have experience in the field.
1) having sex
2) being married
3) having kids
There are a lot of tough choices to be made as a parent. It is tough to know when and how you make the right ones for your kids (when they are young). Tough to know how to guide them in their decisions (when they get older) and when you allow them to make their own decisions (and mistakes). Me... I'll cross that bridge with the kids when I get there.
Yes.... 40K is violent. It is in a violent setting. It has very mature themes. The pictures in the books are adult in nature even especially some of the chaos stuff. More or less then video games? meh... actually it depends on the game.
Regardless... it doesn't mean that my kids won't get introduced to these things at the proper time and place. Until then..... we will work on our painting skills... How violent can the pink ones be any how?
I'm reminded of a favourite childhood book of mine called "Trouble for Trumpets" about these cute little miniature hippos called Trumpets that are at war with similarly cute but mean miniature hippos called Grumpets.
The difference being that the Grumpets are nasty violent arctic creatures and Trumpets guns tend to shoot flowers and whatnot. Someone should definitely buy up the property and produce a wargame for it.
But back on topic, aren't the pink ones in 40k the most sadistic and depraved ones? Unless they're His Immortal Majesty's Pinkerton Legion (IX), tasked with the unending task of the gardening and interior decorating of the Imperial Palace.
While I am not a parent if I was I would let my kids play 40k as an example take me I'm 14 the only cert that I have not played is 18 and grand theft auto and although my parents didnt know about it I was playing halo at 10 and playing 40k has taught me how to get on in life (I'm home schooled and didnt learn much of it in the 3 or so years I was in school) oh and forgot to mention while I'm not so miffed about flies I won't hurt anything else for example the only game I refuse to play is big buck hunter where you go out and shoot animals but I will shoot humans, aliens, zombies (in video games) I refuse outright to shoot animals
jgemrich wrote:I have a good friend that says there are 3 things you can't claim knowledge or comment on until you actually have experience in the field.
1) having sex
2) being married
3) having kids
There are a lot of tough choices to be made as a parent. It is tough to know when and how you make the right ones for your kids (when they are young). Tough to know how to guide them in their decisions (when they get older) and when you allow them to make their own decisions (and mistakes). Me... I'll cross that bridge with the kids when I get there.
QFT.
The thing people are missing in their responses to the OP is that the kids' parents may be right. Different kids handle violence -- pretend or otherwise -- in different ways. It's the parents' job to determine what they can handle at a given age. They may or may not be correct, and you may or may not agree with their standpoint...but chances are they have a much better handle on their kids' maturity level than an outsider.
Before you're a parent, it's very easy to point out "bad parenting." Once you're a parent, you start giving other parents more benefit of the doubt because you *understand*.
garret wrote:The thing is violence only affects you if you let it.
...
Alright, but small children don't have that control. You don't get that control untill you have melted your brain with violent footage and simulations like most of us have. Even then, it does affect you, you can just ignore it and move on. I watch Saving Private Ryan every 4th of July, and sometimes I don't watch the final bridge scene.
There is no definite study yet produced, that proves violent tabletop games (or computer games in general) like warhammer 40K produced violent individuals, period.
Looking at all the weapons, spiky things, bloody battles and gore of the wh40K fluff, definitely it's a violent setting for a game. We could not fault the parents for trying to shelter their children, study or not it is their right. I wish them best on that, since I know this is not an ideal world there are alot of things out there which will give real-life 'violent' lessons than a mere tabletop game. I wish too that their children do not have to learn those the hard way.
) and wouldn't buy me violent platform games.
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