http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/07/news-gamesday-chicago-2009-livefeed.html

...

Chaos Dwarves WILL be updated!

...

Bravo for the big 'at stunties!

updated like blood angels?




PS:Yay for full plastic guard....

Bit too early to be rejoicing.

BrookM wrote:Bit too early to be rejoicing.

A bit late to call it a victory too...

Meh.

They've been saying that for God-Knows how long.

But when they do come out (Note: Not IF, WHEN) expect me to buy some.

At least the CD come out of limbo. That's awesome for Hashut's boys.

And they haven't confirmed that it is a studio update. According to one of the Forge World High Ups at Baltimore, they are doing the Chaos Dwarfs for their first Warhammer book. So it is very likely that it will be a FW list and models and not a GW Studio book.

Not a "new" race, but definately worth it. CD have a lot of personality.

JHall wrote:And they haven't confirmed that it is a studio update. According to one of the Forge World High Ups at Baltimore, they are doing the Chaos Dwarfs for their first Warhammer book. So it is very likely that it will be a FW list and models and not a GW Studio book.

That would be rubbish. If you're going to do something, do it properly. Wonder if the big hats will return, or if they'll do them in the style of the Hellcannon crew.

EDIT - Would it be immensely sad to stay up all night waiting for something else to be announced on this live feed? Hmm... perhaps a quick nose over at Warseer is in order (hangs head in shame).

EDIT 2 - I'm back, it was painful (reading blue on black gives me a headache). Got mired in a 60+ page thread on Skaven figuring there must something of value in there somewhere. There wasn't.

Flashman wrote:[quote=

EDIT - Would it be immensely sad to stay up all night waiting for something else to be announced on this live feed? Hmm... perhaps a quick nose over at Warseer is in order (hangs head in shame).

EDIT 2 - I'm back, it was painful (reading blue on black gives me a headache). Got mired in a 60+ page thread on Skaven figuring there must something of value in there somewhere. There wasn't.

Well thanks for slogging through that so we don't have to. A friend of mine is obsessed with the idea of 40k Skaven even though he doesn't play WFB. I was disappointed in their "big announcement" too but there's still another day.

Deeds, not words is what I want out of GW. It doesn't look like there's much of anything concrete on show at the Games Day.

I see shares in the EBay Chaos Dwarf Trade plummeting?
SELL SELL SELL!

Love how the sign, "NO PICTURES" was... in the picture. I guess it was because some people can't read German? Oh wait... the graphic.

Huh.

Great. Now I gotta collect them again. Knew I shouldn't have gotten rid of my chaos stunties.

Other regiments in plastic? Yeah... uh huh. I'll believe that when I see it.

I just hope that Forge World doing Fantasy campaign books will lead to an Elven schism book, with gorgeous resin High Elf and Dark Elf infantry that make the Wood Elf boxes look terrible...

/dreams

Not only that wtf is the point? Its not like they have ANY different stats...

But hey! New models that cost more then the old ones and do the exact same thing....

Wooo!

I'll clearly get derided for this post, but hey. Whats new?


I had a chaos dwarf team in blood bowl, they were funny, slavik, and humorously flavorful. They worked great in a "fantasy football game". They are a stupid concept for the actual game of warhammer fantasy. They are a throwback to when the game was about humor, giant hair, drinking, and not caring if a girl saw you playing the game because lets face it, you wouldn't be able to talk to her anyway.


I like to think that the game has matured a bit, and this army isn't going to fit well at all. There are plenty of good concepts they could have moved on with, chaosing up the short people faction isn't a good concept.

Agreed

Cool! Let's hope for Wood Dwarves, Space Dwarves and Chaos Space Dwarves next!

H.B.M.C. wrote:Other regiments in plastic? Yeah... uh huh. I'll believe that when I see it.

It's a lie, just like Plastic Canadians.

From the small bit I remember about Chaos Dwarves(admittedly, they're before my time...), they could be made into an interesting Orcs & Gobbos styled army, with Hobgoblin slaves, Ogres, etc alongside the actual wacky warmachines.

Maybe they should just lose the "Chaos" part and be Spiky Stunties?

ShumaGorath wrote:I like to think that the game has matured a bit, and this army isn't going to fit well at all. There are plenty of good concepts they could have moved on with, chaosing up the short people faction isn't a good concept.

Explain how the concept of 'Evil Dwarves' doesn't fit in a fanatsy setting that already includes Evil Humans and Evil Elves? Especially when this same Fantasy setting already includes Giant Rats and Giant Lizards?

ShumaGorath wrote:I'll clearly get derided for this post, but hey. Whats new?


I had a chaos dwarf team in blood bowl, they were funny, slavik, and humorously flavorful. They worked great in a "fantasy football game". They are a stupid concept for the actual game of warhammer fantasy. They are a throwback to when the game was about humor, giant hair, drinking, and not caring if a girl saw you playing the game because lets face it, you wouldn't be able to talk to her anyway.


I like to think that the game has matured a bit, and this army isn't going to fit well at all. There are plenty of good concepts they could have moved on with, chaosing up the short people faction isn't a good concept.

I really think your confusing concept and execution here. The old Chaos dwarves were pretty silly, but so were the old Wood Elves and the 2nd ed Orks. GW is nothing if not skilled at grim dark. Assuming they get a full new range (and there's no reason not to assume that), Magic using evil dwarves that utilize slaves and shotguns is no more ridiculous than undead chariots or all ogre armies.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:I like to think that the game has matured a bit, and this army isn't going to fit well at all. There are plenty of good concepts they could have moved on with, chaosing up the short people faction isn't a good concept.

Explain how the concept of 'Evil Dwarves' doesn't fit in a fanatsy setting that already includes Evil Humans and Evil Elves? Especially when this same Fantasy setting already includes Giant Rats and Giant Lizards?

Because I'm a human. Theres a historical context and room for expansion. I am not a dwarf. I only really have so much tolerance for short people with full facial hair and eyes despite living underground for tens of thousands of years. Making evil short people is not interesting to me. I also don't want good skaven or evil lizardmen.

ShumaGorath wrote:Because I'm a human. Theres a historical context and room for expansion. I am not a dwarf.

You're not an Elf either. Or a skeleton. Or a Vampire. Or an ogre.

Yet you tollerate these?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Because I'm a human. Theres a historical context and room for expansion. I am not a dwarf.

You're not an Elf either. Or a skeleton. Or a Vampire. Or an ogre.

Yet you tollerate these?

maybe he was bullied by a little person in his youth.

or he's actually a little person, and dislikes the word dwarf

i kinda hope the chaos dwarfs have some interesting models i can use as thunderers

No I see his point. The whole of human history offers such rich grounds for exploration that GW is foolish to focus on varients of their fantasy armies.

GW had a lot of options from Cathay, to Nippon, to Arabia, to Ind, to Norse and instead took a choice about as inspired as Light Beastmen.

People who play fantasy will like it but Chaos Dwarves won't do anything to tempt me into pick up fantasy.

ShumaGorath wrote: They are a stupid concept for the actual game of warhammer fantasy.

Nah. Evil Dwares is fine.


Little people riding Trikes is a stupid concept.

YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES(if this becomes official WFB army, I may actually start playing)

H.B.M.C. wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:Because I'm a human. Theres a historical context and room for expansion. I am not a dwarf.

You're not an Elf either. Or a skeleton. Or a Vampire. Or an ogre.

Yet you tollerate these?

I read that as toilerate. You know, like toilet.

By the same token, Chaos dwarves allow for an exploration of ancient Mesopotamian cultures, in ways that are unlikely to occur with an actual human race.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:No I see his point. The whole of human history offers such rich grounds for exploration that GW is foolish to focus on varients of their fantasy armies.

Oh give me a fething break.

When GW does more Imperial armies in 40K people bitch. When GW does too few human armies in Fantasy people bitch.

What they actually said in the seminar was that yes Chaos Dwarves will be updated at some point...along with every other race they have made, for every system they made. It was the standard studio answer to every type of this question that inevitably comes up "Are you planning on updating X army" their answer is ALWAYS "Yes, but I can't tell you when, and right now it isn't in the foreseable future and is probably several years off". Unless its Squats...and lets face it, that joke is really old and stale now.

So rejoicing about Chaos Dwarves ranks right up there with getting the Inquisition redone (yes they said the same thing about them too). Sorry to burst the bubble of the three actual Chaos Dwarf players out there in the world.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Deeds, not words is what I want out of GW. It doesn't look like there's much of anything concrete on show at the Games Day.

Indeed. I have to ask what the hell is the point in the Games Day anymore? There's no tournament, Forge World never brings gak and sells out of what little they did bring very quickly, the concessions are horrible, you don't get discounted products or door prizes or anything, and now GW is so fething tight-lipped they won't even tell you about the releases coming out within the next few months...at least nothing you didn't know already or that hasn't been printed in White Dwarf. None of these rumors I've heard from Chicago are concrete in the slightest, it's all more "ifs" and "maybes" and wishful thinking and fething Jervis wagging his finger with a stupid grin on his face saying "It's a seeeecret!"

Why do people go? Is it just for random gaming and the Golden Demon? The games themselves must not even be that interesting since ALL the GD-related chatter is always about the news and rumors, it's really the only reason people pay to go in the first place and now GW thinks keeping everything a BIG SECRET and treating their customers like nosey children around Christmas time is the way to go. I used to be really interested in the Games Days, but all I've heard about them recently is how boring and disappointing they are. Why GW even bothers is beyond me, make them worthwhile or just stop wasting your time.

I want proof that they're actually working on this stuff, as it is now we're exactly where we were beforehand. DE are still coming guys, for real this time! We're thinking real hard about Chaos Legions, but we dunno yet! Necrons? We don't know, keep your eyes peeled!

Pfft...fething joke.


EDIT: Cue a dozen people to respond to my post with "LEAVE GW ALONE IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T GO!"

H.B.M.C. wrote:
When GW does [anything] people bitch.

Fixed that for you.

On a more serious note, if they can be pulled off to look like the Avatar of War Chaos Dwarf, then I'll be happy.

And this year's Games Days were a joke, so I agree with you Sidstyler. I think that the Indy circuit will have a greater boost this year because of that. I've heard rumblings of just one games day next year, and it looks like Chicago is probably it. If I'm traveling to Chicago, it's going to be for Adepticon.

That being said, I've also heard the general problem with this year's Games Day is the huge staff cut backs they had. I'm interested to see how they approach that next year.

Polonius wrote:By the same token, Chaos dwarves allow for an exploration of ancient Mesopotamian cultures, in ways that are unlikely to occur with an actual human race.

This is exactly why I think it's a decent choice as to what army they should bring in. Sure, it's not Cathay, Nippon, or Arabia...but CD do have a great style that they draw from and will be even better if GW draws more from ancient Assyrian culture.

Personally, I would like to see an Arabian themed army...but there are a fair amount of resources out there to do a conversion and play them as brettonians or Empire or something.

I've heard rumblings of just one games day next year, and it looks like Chicago is probably it.

That actually kinda makes me sad, since I'd prefer it if they just put more effort into making Games Days worthwhile instead of actually giving up on it.

Polonius wrote: I really think your confusing concept and execution here. The old Chaos dwarves were pretty silly, but so were the old Wood Elves and the 2nd ed Orks. GW is nothing if not skilled at grim dark. Assuming they get a full new range (and there's no reason not to assume that), Magic using evil dwarves that utilize slaves and shotguns is no more ridiculous than undead chariots or all ogre armies.

You were doing GREAT until you said - all ogre armies.

I'm all for Chaos Dwarves, Red Bulls (see what I did there?), A CAN OF KHORNE!

kaiohx wrote:So rejoicing about Chaos Dwarves ranks right up there with getting the Inquisition redone (yes they said the same thing about them too). Sorry to burst the bubble of the three actual Chaos Dwarf players out there in the world.

Precisely. There's no news, absolutely nothing to get worked up over. Chaos Dwarves are just as much in limbo today as they were last week.

ah, but now people have false hope, before to long, we'll start getting posts of poorly focused camera phone shots or somesuch that they'll swear are the "awesome new chaos dwarfs"

People with false hope eventually turn into people like me.

People like me eventually turn into people like Agamemnon.

So think carefully before getting your hopes up.

Yes, when you get to my age, GW is like an exgirlfriend that you still hang out with.

She still looks great and you enjoy spending time with her, but she is constantly doing things that remind you why the relationship didn't work out.

I'm going to do what I always do and what always results in a lot of verbal abuse: wait and see.

BrookM wrote:I'm going to do what I always do and what always results in a lot of verbal abuse: wait and see.

fething bastard!

The owner of my FLGS told me a rumor: 8th edition Fantasy is closer than we think, and every army book will be released simultaneously, Ravening-Hordes style (rather like what they did in WotR)- and it will include Chaos Dwarfs. Future releases of the army books will not have any new or extra rules, just added artwork & background.


I take this rumor with a grain of salt, but I cannot help but think that maybe, just maybe, this would be a way to deal with the power-creep inherent in the current system.

THAT isn't going to happen.

I mean the "Future releases of the army books will not have any new or extra rules, just added artwork & background" part.

Maybe they'll hit the reset with a "Ravening Hordes" approach, but that other stuff?

No way!

If they do I seriously doubt that we'll see new high hats (maybe on a sorcerer), expect hellcannon style if at all.

Mine all have high hats though, I couldn't resist.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Cool! Let's hope for Wood Dwarves, Space Dwarves and Chaos Space Dwarves next!

Actually it will be blood dwarf, Ultra dwarf, Templar dwarf, Raven Dwarf, etc....

kaiohx wrote:So rejoicing about Chaos Dwarves ranks right up there with getting the Inquisition redone (yes they said the same thing about them too). Sorry to burst the bubble of the three actual Chaos Dwarf players out there in the world.

As both a chaos dwarf and an inquisition player, OWW. Also, we are legion.

High hats will rise again (no pun intended).
Maybe not with hats.
Maybe not with lammasu.
Maybe not at all.

But with beards that curl to our toes.

At least they seem to be keeping the beards.

Forge World 'only' would make me sad.

The miniatures would be too expensive.

The rules would be poorly written (imagine the magic spells alone!) with tons of overcosted units, nonsensical entries and copy paste errors.

And really expensive miniatures.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Cool! Let's hope for Wood Dwarves, Space Dwarves and Chaos Space Dwarves next!

Warseer is ... less good ... than other websites. And much ... less good ... than dakka.

More chaos is always good, especially if they have their act together regarding new minis. All they need really is a plastic Chaos Dwarf kit, a new warmachine, a metal elite infantry unit of some kind and a plastic hobgoblins kit.

H.B.M.C. wrote:People with false hope eventually turn into people like me.

People like me eventually turn into people like Agamemnon.

So think carefully before getting your hopes up.

Yes. We all know what happened to Agamemnon, so be careful!

Oh ha ha ha, how we are laughing.

Not.

Oh stop being such a sourpuss Aggy.

We all know that the original Agamemnon was poisoned. Why else would you be Agamemnon2???

A bit off topic but...

BoLS wrote:
1:00pm...Jervis spoke:
-The Studio loves the idea of Chaos Legion specific codices. It will allow GW to build Legion specific models, but is still a while off.
-Necrons are further along that that, and Mike (???, unclear) has been dropping hints of what we may see in an upcoming Necron codex in various books.

Necrons AFTER CSM legion codices?
i thought they were due for 2010 :(

This would be the single dumbest idea they've ever had.

kaiohx wrote:What they actually said in the seminar was that yes Chaos Dwarves will be updated at some point...along with every other race they have made, for every system they made. It was the standard studio answer to every type of this question that inevitably comes up "Are you planning on updating X army" their answer is ALWAYS "Yes, but I can't tell you when, and right now it isn't in the foreseable future and is probably several years off". Unless its Squats...and lets face it, that joke is really old and stale now.

Yes, this seems to be the case.
What's strange is, they've been feeding the "we'll do it when we feel like it" line for years but suddenly it's being treated as news and in some cases, concrete evidence for Chaos Dwarfs in the next few years.
I remember rumours saying Chaos Dwarfs were on the cards for a 2009 release.

kaiohx wrote:Sorry to burst the bubble of the three actual Chaos Dwarf players out there in the world.

Now that's just being mean, isn't it?

fellblade wrote:The owner of my FLGS told me a rumor: 8th edition Fantasy is closer than we think, and every army book will be released simulatneously, Ravening-Hordes style (rather like what they did in WotR)- and it will include Chaos Dwarfs. Future releases of the army books will not have any new or extra rules, just added artwork & background.


I take this rumor with a grain of salt, but I cannot help but think that maybe, just maybe, this would be a way to deal with the power-creep inherent in the current system.

A grain of salt?
It's not going to happen.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

As much as I hate the current 'Chaos' Codex, I hate the idea of separate Legion Codices even more. Four more Codices to add to the list (and it's four, as they wouldn't do Alpha/Night/Iron/Word in separate books or even a combined book). Adding four more Codices just adds another 2 years to their development cycle (assuming their current pathetic rate of 2 Codices a year).

And if they do one Codex a year for the Traitor Legions, we're looking at 4 years to get the last one, and in that time only 4 other armies will have their Codices redone (two of which will be Blood Angels and Black Templars) meaning 2 non-Marine releases over the space of 4 years.

Awesome.

I don't get why they can't just be more like the SM codex, where by picking vertain HQ choices it changes you armies Chapter Tactics, meaning they act like a different chapter . . . but it would have to be more extreme than what they are atm. So basically having 1 codex that includes all the chapters/legions . . . no idea whether this would work though.

And I'm looking forward to Chaos Dwarfs, if FW do it they will be even more awesome models, but expensive and the rules won't be as good . . . but if GW do it the models will only be good . . . the rules will be well written, and everything will be cheaper . . . Oh yeah and if GW do it they will sell more as they will actually be available in stores . . .

brassangel wrote:This would be the single dumbest idea they've ever had.

Been around much?

Chaos Dwarves? Yawn.
I thought we'd be getting something new and exciting, not the recycling of a minis line that we haven't seen in 10 years.

Daggermaw wrote:Chaos Dwarves? Yawn.
I thought we'd be getting something new and exciting, not the recycling of a minis line that we haven't seen in 10 years.

given the attention span of the young folk that gw likes to target, 10 years is practically forever

it's forever for me . . . . And I'm not 10

Meh. If they do chaos dwarves I might play Fantasy again. Probably not, though.

fellblade wrote:The owner of my FLGS told me a rumor: 8th edition Fantasy is closer than we think, and every army book will be released simultaneously, Ravening-Hordes style (rather like what they did in WotR)- and it will include Chaos Dwarfs. Future releases of the army books will not have any new or extra rules, just added artwork & background.

I take this rumor with a grain of salt, but I cannot help but think that maybe, just maybe, this would be a way to deal with the power-creep inherent in the current system.

So, IOW, WFB is taking a page from WotR, with all armies and rules in the main book? It's a good idea for army balance and tournament play, but then WFB is going to need an Armies book update to release every year to constantly tweak and patch things...

But instantly invalidating all Army Books, and pretty much consigning future Army Books to Black Library puff pieces with pretty pictures? I can't really see that, as I don't think those books sell so well. I don't think that Fluff and painting guides encourage minis sales like Army Books.

OTOH, this would be consistent with sidelining WFB in favor of WotR (and especially 40k), so hmm...

Great. Just great. Now we have a game with two kinds of Dorf and a game with no Dorfs at all. Wonderful.

...Plastic valhallans sound like the bomb-diggity though.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:No I see his point. The whole of human history offers such rich grounds for exploration that GW is foolish to focus on varients of their fantasy armies.

Oh give me a fething break.

When GW does more Imperial armies in 40K people bitch. When GW does too few human armies in Fantasy people bitch.

Actually, as of late, if GW does anythin, people bitch.. Hell GW should do nothing, at least then, they could say they earned the bitch out they got.. lol

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if CD's went to forgeworld..

You say if GW did nothing people people wouldn't bitch . . . but they would, they would bitch about things not being updated. You can't please everyone.

Do we really need a whole new redone chaos dwarf army? can't they just make it a white dwarf army list and tell people to put spikes and skulls on regular dwarves?

I think having new models and list would bring more interest to the army, whereas with it being a WD army it wouldn't get the same support (look at Blood Angels for example) without a big release you don't get the word out to everyone about the new army, and not everyone has the chance to get the rules.

There wasn't any need for Ogre Kingdoms, but they still released then as an army. I fully expect them to release another army every edition.

I collect Ogres . . . my first and currently only WFB army . . . and no there wasn't any need, other than to add another dimension to the game. They are the minimalist army, small amount of expensive troops. They are like no other army.

Chaos Dwarfs also add another dimension, we get to see more of the fact that not all Dwarfs are nice little miners, some are evil twisted individuals who relish in causing pain to others =]

I was just being silly. I'm sure it'll be a great army. if the models are good enough, i may be tempted to convert some into squats!

Great now if and when I start playing fantasy its gonna be between Dark Elves, Tomb Kings, and Chaos Dwarves.

I don't like this idea at all. I accept that there are evil or corrupted dwarfs out there, but adding this army would add almost nothing to the "dimensionality" of the original Warhammer universe. Dwarfs are dwarfs. The models are there, and you can do what you want to them to make whatever "breed" of dwarf throng you want through army structure and color scheme. Same goes for whatever sort of dwarf you can come up with, including (and not limited to) mountain dwarfs, piedmont dwarfs, agricultural dwarfs, aquatic dwarfs, and yes, chaos dwarfs.

In short, if you're that desperate for a chaos dwarf army, just paint your dwarfs to look chaotic, make whatever minor conversions you see fit, and make a few fluffy house rules for the army. There's no need for a new model line or rulebook.

If it's new "Middle Eastern dimensionality" you're looking for, models from Araby would cover any number of themes from the Middle East that one can conceive, including Sumeria, Babylon, Assyria, Anatolia, Carthage, and the Hellenistic Era.

I like the Messopotamian feel that the old chaos dwarves had. There's got to be a way to incorporate that into the current grimdark of WHFB.

Tk421 wrote:If it's new "Middle Eastern dimensionality" ... Hellenistic Era...

Ok, Dwarven Hoplites might be *just* what the doctor ordered.

I think the ancient Babylonian influence is one that they would definitely profit from exploring.

@Tk421

So basically what you're saying is we shouldn't have CSM, Dark Elves, Wood Elves or Dark Eldar . . . just use the 'good' models, convert them a bit, paint them different, and make up rules for them?

I, for one, will welcome our new (old?) big hatted masters...

And that crazy big red bull too

Oshova wrote:You say if GW did nothing people people wouldn't bitch . . . but they would, they would bitch about things not being updated. You can't please everyone.

If you are replying to me, please reread what I wrote. I didn't say people wouldn't bitch, I said that GW could actually say they earned the bitch session..

What makes Chaos Dwarfs so different from the Dwarfs is why they should be made as an army. They would have to be careful to make them have a range of playing styles that are not entirely the same as an existing army.

The biggest unique factor will be their evil/daemonic industry theme, which sets them apart from all other warhammer armies and adds another facet to the background as a whole.

Oshova wrote:@Tk421

So basically what you're saying is we shouldn't have CSM, Dark Elves, Wood Elves or Dark Eldar . . . just use the 'good' models, convert them a bit, paint them different, and make up rules for them?

I'm saying that it could be done (and I'm certain that it was done by some before those lines came out). I'm also saying that if you want CD's that badly, make your own from the existing dwarf model line instead of whining about GW.

As for the argument concerning Elven and Eldar factions, the lines between those three main types of elf had already been established in other mythos as being in the norm, each with very distinct differences:

High-elfs are often associated with Tolkien's Middle Earth.
Wood-elfs embrace the traditional fantasy concept of the "elven ranger".
Dark-elfs are derived from Scandinavian, Eddic, and Germanic mythologies, where they are known as Svartálfar (literally Norse for "black elf").

This opened up the games to all fans of elfs and not just one exclusively. By including the three common variants of the elves, everyone can collect the elf race that is most appealing.

That is not the same as introducing chaos dwarfs.

Except, Chaos Dwarves go back a long time, to early WFB.

This isn't GW pulling something brand new out of some random orifice.

I guess the point I want to make is that they should come out with CDs wit another race simultaneously, both drawing from Middle Eastern cultures. If they did CDs in conjunction with, say, nomads of Araby, I think they'd find a more stable market.

Still not thrilled with the CD idea, but to each his/her own.

Tk421 wrote:

Oshova wrote:@Tk421

So basically what you're saying is we shouldn't have CSM, Dark Elves, Wood Elves or Dark Eldar . . . just use the 'good' models, convert them a bit, paint them different, and make up rules for them?

I'm saying that it could be done (and I'm certain that it was done by some before those lines came out). I'm also saying that if you want CD's that badly, make your own from the existing dwarf model line instead of whining about GW.

That is not the same as introducing chaos dwarfs.

But CD are not just Dwarves with pointy hats.
They had a lot of cheap hobgobs, options for Black Orcs, Lammasu and Bull Centaurs. And an interesting magic lore.
You cannot make the classic Chaos Dwarf army with the Dwarf army boook.
Tho the Ravening Hordes (6ed?) list is still usable.
On Podhammer, they mentioned one of the top guys in Aus was running them a few months back.

Grimstonefire wrote:
The biggest unique factor will be their evil/daemonic industry theme, which sets them apart from all other warhammer armies and adds another facet to the background as a whole.

x2. I want to see Chaos Dwarfs done largely because I'm curious where GW is going to take this particular angle. We've seen what they've done combining chaos with technology in 40k (Obliterators, Defiler, that other thing with the torso). Evil Mesopotamians with hobgoblin slaves and daemonic war machines is far more interesting and relevant (to the "main" Warhammer world) than Araby is likely to be. The fact that they are short in stature and Movement 3 is more of an afterthought.

Releasing 2 new Army Books simultaneously wouldn't have the same impact . . . ok so you would pull in a wider range of people, but you wouldn't be able to have the same affect on sales, and be able to properly tailor the New Release shelves to properly show off the new models and rules.

Oshova wrote:I collect Ogres . . . They are the minimalist army, small amount of expensive troops. They are like no other army.

Because at the time Ogre Kingdoms was released the Chaos book didn't fulfill that at all.

@TK421
You bring up the fact that all three types of elves are represented because, historically, we have had myths of different types of elves. Alright, that's cool, but what makes you think we haven't had good and evil dwarves in all of our myths? In fact, with CD not being represented for the past 10 years, Warhammer is one of the few settings that HASN'T had evil dwarves represented.

I, personally, can't wait to see them redone.

As far as I know, the myth behind dwarves held that they were evil, malicious creatures to begin with, and the good Dwarves people knw of these days was a more recent invention.

Thank you, Walt Disney.

As far as we know, the 7 dwarves could've been helping Snow White for all sorts of nefarious reasons. Maybe they were secretly planning an insurrection against the queen to cause as much human suffering as possible. Maybe they wanted to keep Snow White to themselves and the Queen was an elaborate ruse to capture her Who knows? They're evil.

Railguns wrote:As far as we know, the 7 dwarves could've been helping Snow White for all sorts of nefarious reasons. Maybe they were secretly planning an insurrection against the queen to cause as much human suffering as possible. Maybe they wanted to keep Snow White to themselves and the Queen was an elaborate ruse to capture her Who knows? They're evil.

Sounds like you've been watching the more adult oriented Snow White.

Rule 34 says there's adult versions of everything.

And seriously, who doesn't want to see a girl with 7 midgets?

Let it be known that all the rule 34 references came AFTER my post.

The internet is as horrible as it is brilliant.

And seriously, who doesn't want to see a girl with 7 midgets?

Not I....

JohnHwangDD wrote:Rule 34 says there's adult versions of everything.

And seriously, who doesn't want to see a girl with 7 midgets?

7 midgets dressed as Hitler for the w1n!!

In the nordic myths (where elves and dwarfs come from) they are both good and evil. The god's best weapon, the hammer of Thor, was dwarf forged.

So good dwarfs arent a recent invention

JohnHwangDD wrote:Rule 34 says there's adult versions of everything.

And seriously, who doesn't want to see a girl with 7 midgets?

The sad 8th midget?

JohnHwangDD wrote:Rule 34 says there's adult versions of everything.

And seriously, who doesn't want to see a girl with 7 midgets?

Ah, that explains the hats then.

The idea of revamped Chaos Dwarves has me reasonably excited. That is as long as they go back to the original Chaos style, like the Chaos Hellcannon.
Here's one vote against the stupid looking stove pipe hat and blunderbus look.

The 'original' Chaos Dwarfs had neither hats nor masks. They were more like stunted Chaos Warriors in full plate armour (which could still look awesome if updated)

http://www.solegends.com/marauder/mm90cdwf.htm

I still think we'd all be happy if they somehow found a way to merge both styles.

Losing the Assyrian/Babylonian theme would be a mistake, in my opinion...

Grimstonefire wrote:The 'original' Chaos Dwarfs had neither hats nor masks. They were more like stunted Chaos Warriors in full plate armour (which could still look awesome if updated)

http://www.solegends.com/marauder/mm90cdwf.htm

The first Chaos Dwarves I remember seeing were a boxed set of Chaos Dwarf Renegades. An eight Dwarf set that included a two headed Dwarf, and Dwarves in Chaos armour. I was disappointed when they moved away from this look. The Hell cannon Dwarves remind me of those (a bit).

http://www.solegends.com/citboxes/bc6chaosdwarfs.htm

Alpharius wrote:I still think we'd all be happy if they somehow found a way to merge both styles.

Losing the Assyrian/Babylonian theme would be a mistake, in my opinion...

The beards can stay, those I don't mind, but everything else just looks bad, IMO

Alpharius wrote:I still think we'd all be happy if they somehow found a way to merge both styles.

Losing the Assyrian/Babylonian theme would be a mistake, in my opinion...

New style beards with old school armour, keep that suit of armour with a beard look. Tone down the Ork and Hobgobin elements too. Oh, and they should get Defilers!

Great chance for OTT steampunk chaos midgets with bizarre walking machines and the chaos dwarf bazooka! Oh and those weird bull-centaur pushed wheelbarrows of doom from waaaaaayyyyy back (there were two, one with scythes and flails, the other with hammers and maces).

I had the one with the flails that was used as a dwarven death steamroller for bloodbowl it was sweet.

Sent an email to GW about this, mainly because nothing I want GW to do ever actually happens and I had to be sure.

Hello,

We’ve heard the same rumors (probably form the same sources), but we have not heard anything official about Chaos Dwarfs being redone. Unfortunately, we wouldn’t have more information until they were closer to coming out (if they are).



Thanks!



John Spencer

Customer Service Specialist



Please do not delete previous email threads as this will help us serve you better!



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I actually believe that they're closer than we think. After all, there was a small CD codex on the old Aussie GW website, before it was axed.

Random question:

Are Chaos Dwarves still legal? I know they have a list in the old Ravening Hordes thing - can that still be used at tournaments?

Depends on the event. UK GTs don't allow them any more.

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:I actually believe that they're closer than we think. After all, there was a small CD codex on the old Aussie GW website, before it was axed.

I'm assuming this was the Ravening Hordes list, before GW got on the whole "must have a GW-printed Army Book to play" business.

Isn´t ist naive to believe that GW would revive an army it doesn´t allow on its own tournaments ?
An army I never saw in my local gamestore or elsewhere for all the time about 10 years long ?
Sure, evil industrial slavetaking capitalists with big hats are a funny idea, but why should they bother to write an new army book for them.
I would be most happy if they just would fit them into a chaos book as an option together with their meaniest warmashines, they werre named Chaos Dwarves after all
I really don´t know why GW would bother to drag them out of the oblivion they fell into, what would be their motivation to do that ?

Because the mere rumour of a possible return causes threads like this, and the sentiments therein, to spark up all over the Warhamms related websites?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Random question:

Are Chaos Dwarves still legal? I know they have a list in the old Ravening Hordes thing - can that still be used at tournaments?

Most Us Tournaments do allow them. But there are a few that don't even know they are still an army..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:I actually believe that they're closer than we think. After all, there was a small CD codex on the old Aussie GW website, before it was axed.

I'm assuming this was the Ravening Hordes list, before GW got on the whole "must have a GW-printed Army Book to play" business.

if it were nearer to 5th edition it could very well be the list the Tuomas Pirenen was working on before he left GW.

the_ampersand_man wrote:

The first Chaos Dwarves I remember seeing were a boxed set of Chaos Dwarf Renegades. An eight Dwarf set that included a two headed Dwarf, and Dwarves in Chaos armour. I was disappointed when they moved away from this look. The Hell cannon Dwarves remind me of those (a bit).

http://www.solegends.com/citboxes/bc6chaosdwarfs.htm

Man, Khazek Doomlord was one baaaaad lookin' little fellow. Actually intimidating, despite being about 4' tall in scale. That's a feat.

Dwarves a so cool!!

I have a 'large' collection of reg dwarves, and I still possess 2 of my favorite 'old skool' CD models, the lamassu, and the Fire Bull (PLEEEEEASE MAKE THESE AGAIN GW!!!!!). I love the way that reg (good) dwarves are portrayed in the GW fantasy setting, and I think that the Chaos dwarves are the perfect antithesis to them. Whereas the wood, high, and dark elves all still have (somewhat) similar characteristics, the chaos dwarves (they really need a different name than 'chaos' in my opinion) seem like an entirely different race than their brethren.

I love that they use sorcery and turn to stone. Their mutations are muted, and consistant for the most part, compared to other races which 'dabble' in chaos. And while I do think the 'style' of the older models (the big hat ones) separates them nicely from any other race, it is a bit 'silly' when you look at how detailed and more mature the figures have become. I like the bull centaurs, but I think they should bring minotaurs into their army too, since they would be good 'bruiser' units for them, and because I like minotaurs. I would hope that they'd clean them up a bit, so that they loot more presentable compared to the beasts of chaos ones, but that would require GW to sculpt new models (or maybe just new heads) specifically for them, and with a line which currently possesses NO models, that would be a bit of a tall order I"m sure.

I think the fact that they use riding beasts is excellent also, and that fact that it's not just 'a dragon' which almost every other army uses makes them unique. The Lamassu is perfect in that it fits well with the babylonian background, but the fire taurus thing, is just beyond cool. An evil dwarf flying around on a giant flaming bull brings a smile to my face.

If forge world is in fact going to do this line, I will just send them my bank account info, and let them withdrawl what ever it takes.

Thank you for listening to my nerdy rant about bad dwarfs!!

I hear you, Skullking, and I agree!

Bring them on!

They just need to keep enough of the Assyrian/Babylonian thing going without getting silly (i.e., tone down the hats a little!)

The Lamassu and the Taurus were awesome.



And I'd love to see them make a comeback, along with the funky war machines, bull centaurs and the Blunderbuss...