8229
Post by: Xav
TBH i would welcome them, the Tau out of all of the 40K races being the nicest realy.
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Earth would need to be a barren cold rock to be ever ruled by Tau.
Why should we accept commie space ants as suppressors?
8229
Post by: Xav
Well they have superior tech and could easily kill us all, and i think the whole world united under a communist banner would be great.
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Their illusion of superior tech wont help them.
Really want to be a commie? Go north korea, they may accept you as new comrade....
18435
Post by: Kragura
I think it would be cool to get accepted into the tau empire cause then we get
RAAAIIILGUUUUNS
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
What i ve heard Tau keep their tech to themselves, so your stuck with your old guns.
8896
Post by: Timmah
Aren't tau facists? Easily the most efficient type of government. Plus they are the only race that isn't scared of technology. And we will still have a lot of say in how we work as long as its towards the greater good.
15031
Post by: Shinigami
Didn't they give fancy guns and hats to the Vespids?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
That was at 1hadhq
18435
Post by: Kragura
Shinigami wrote:Didn't they give fancy guns and hats to the Vespids?
oh oh I want a fancy hat
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Timmah wrote:Aren't tau facists? Easily the most efficient type of government. Plus they are the only race that isn't scared of technology. And we will still have a lot of say in how we work as long as its towards the greater good.
I doubt anyone not beiing an Tau has anything to say.
Shinigami wrote:Didn't they give fancy guns and hats to the Vespids?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
That was at 1hadhq
Do we want to be mindcontrolled with fancy hats?
Seems to fit to Timmah's post also, working for the greater good isn't done willingly.
Even tau are influenced from their ethererals to do so.
Strict caste communitys may not like a free will.
Maybe were not suitable as "servitors" just with a different name.
7653
Post by: Corpsesarefun
Timmah wrote:Aren't tau facists? Easily the most efficient type of government. Plus they are the only race that isn't scared of technology. And we will still have a lot of say in how we work as long as its towards the greater good.
This is the second post you have failed with your knowledge of politics, the tau are closer to communism (the opposite of facism).
8229
Post by: Xav
Well once they have earth under there control the Facists will be killed and the world we be under a peaceful communist banner, warhammer may be banned but its all for the greater good. There will be cures for Cancer and other serious illnessly as well as SWINE FLU. The only problem is if The Imperium found this world and it becomes a battlefield and if the Imperium does win, were be tainted and be shipped off to a work camp, and the new imhabitants of Earth will arrive.
5636
Post by: warpcrafter
Hey! Obama could stop covering up that hole in his forehead!
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Xav wrote:Well once they have earth under there control the Facists will be killed and the world we be under a peaceful communist banner, warhammer may be banned but its all for the greater good. There will be cures for Cancer and other serious illnessly as well as SWINE FLU. The only problem is if The Imperium found this world and it becomes a battlefield and if the Imperium does win, were be tainted and be shipped off to a work camp, and the new imhabitants of Earth will arrive.
peaceful and communist 
Banning warhammer is enough to kick Tau out of this galaxy. 
I see a misconception here. Tau do settle on planets. Tau also may sometimes gather vassals/cannonfodder if its abilities
fit to the Tau style of war.
The imperium instead, is already here since earth = terra.
If they would not, the imperium would send its priests and transport you to the next theatre of war ( more cannonfodder ).
14218
Post by: Manstein
This is the second post you have failed with your knowledge of politics, the tau are closer to communism (the opposite of facism).
Ironic. I would think that the exact opposite of Communism would be Democracy in all honesty.
Both Communism and Fascism are ruled by a single thuggish leader who has bullied his way into power via crushing anyone who has an opinion differing from his.
Both also claim to rule in the name of the people and historically made steps to disembowel the ruling class of their respective countries.
Both Communism and Fascism support radical and undivided nation pride and loyalty, coupled with a strong belief in military and expansionist might.
I believe it is you sir, who has failed in your knowledge of politics.
7653
Post by: Corpsesarefun
Manstein wrote:This is the second post you have failed with your knowledge of politics, the tau are closer to communism (the opposite of facism).
Ironic. I would think that the exact opposite of Communism would be Democracy in all honesty.
Both Communism and Fascism are ruled by a single thuggish leader who has bullied his way into power via crushing anyone who has an opinion differing from his.
Both also claim to rule in the name of the people and historically made steps to disembowel the ruling class of their respective countries.
Both Communism and Fascism support radical and undivided nation pride and loyalty, coupled with a strong belief in military and expansionist might.
I believe it is you sir, who has failed in your knowledge of politics.
Communism is the belief that all are equal and each should get everything equally, it is actually closer to democracy that facism.
so indeed it is not me who has failed.
14218
Post by: Manstein
O, so we are just comparing belief systems that have never actually been applied to history?
It seems you are citing Marxism, a system of government that existed in concept only, and never actually took foot in the world as we know it. Fascism, on the other hand was a system of government that actually came into being in Italy first and later on in Germany. It should also be noted that "Italian Fascism" in no way promoted the Italian race as sgreater than any other.
What you are comparing is National Socialism, (Kinda weird how they used the same words as Marx there huh?) and Marxism. One existed, one did not. Next time you correct someone on their political know how make sure your comparisons are not generalizations and are instead accurate.
16727
Post by: lordrevege
1hadhq wrote:Their illusion of superior tech wont help them.
Really want to be a commie? Go north korea, they may accept you as new comrade....
HAha.
Way to stick it to those commies
14996
Post by: Canonness Rory
I would definetely rebel. To hell with their false courtesy and their flawed government!
17466
Post by: Doombot001
I, for one, would welcome our new blue Overlords.
World peace, no more corporate greed, crisis suits to keep the peace, everyone furthering the Greater Good.
Yes, I would definitely welcome our new blue Overlords.
18471
Post by: Lord-Loss
Well some changes would happen including the banning of Fish fingers for obvious reasons, and fish would be banned as food.
15694
Post by: tigonesskay
There was never really a true "communist" country. Most of the "communist" countries were actually socalist. They thought that socialism was a stepping stone to "communism".
I don't think the earth under tau rule will do too good in the long run. Too much free will is taken a way and humans don't like that....
6454
Post by: Cryonicleech
Hell, I'd sign up for the Fire Warrior Caste, and some day be lucky enough to blow S**t up in a Battlesuit.
Good enough for me.
6829
Post by: Cheese Elemental
Kill the Ethereal, we get our planet back.
The Tau are horrible mind-controlling facists who don't let humans breed. I'm pretty sure that they sterilise the Gue'vasa.
18471
Post by: Lord-Loss
Who wants kids anyway, as long as they dont remove a certain something im fine, but if they do!
DEATH TO THE TAU!!!!
16269
Post by: Try Again Bragg
Tau are indian communists. This means earth would become a communist india without the population problem.
Edit: Manstein, Fascism is where all power is placed in a single leader. Communism is where all power is placed among the people. The difference between communism and democracy is that communism comes with the communist economic theory which is very strict and exact. The reason communism looks like facism is that in order to create a communist society you need to put all power in one place to make all the changes before giving up their power to the people. When given this much power most if not all people are corrupted and become despots, a form of fascism.
8506
Post by: Shrike78
Well, considering how long and bloody the history of Racism, violent religious differences, and plain good old-fashioned don't-show-the-kids violence is in the collective history of earth's combined cultures, I think even a race so far ahead of our own as far as technology goes would be hardpressed to occupy our planet...
As a race we just loooove killing things and if they're blue and we're not that's just another great reason to get up in arms.
Though some might argue that they could take advantage of our disunity, there are a few things that would ensure that all factions fight the invaders:
Tell religous nuts that they're gay
Tell Rednecks, the irish, and other such peoples that they will enforce a planet wide prohibition
Tell Corporations that they will be rergulated
Show the Bloods what they look like without their armor on
Tell most of the U.S. that they're illegal aliens coming to take our jobs
etc
15647
Post by: Beastmaster
The tau may have superior tech, but the human race is FAR more numerous than the tau. Even if they have superior tech, they would be outnumbered and outgunned. We'll stick it to those blue commie space ants!
18471
Post by: Lord-Loss
The Imperial get defeated by the Tau, so we would have no chance.
A lasgun isnt to effective vs Tau armour, and are weapons are alot weaker.
18478
Post by: KommanderKurtikai
Lord-Loss wrote:The Imperial get defeated by the Tau, so we would have no chance.
A lasgun isnt to effective vs Tau armour, and are weapons are alot weaker.
 wait do you mean the Imperial Gaurd or the Imperium in general, cuz the Imperium crushes the Tau, ever heard of the Zeist campaign? 
but if you do mean imperial guard, then ur totally correct
18471
Post by: Lord-Loss
Imperial guard, but i presume the Smurfs get there butt kicked sometimes.
10906
Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
I'd fight the Tau, and when we've killed some of them begin to use their tech against them. In time we'd win through attrition, they'd pull back leaving behind damaged and destroyed tech because they can't afford to try and move it as we'd just shoot them. Then we'd take the tech left behind and study it, because we are not ass back wards here on Our Earth which is different from Imperial Terra.
(This whole thing is based of the notion that there exists the Sol System (Holy Terra) and our system, which is an Exact copy of the Sol System, created for some reason by the Old Ones) At least I assume thats what these threads are about.
7209
Post by: Nofasse 'Eadhunta
Tau have actually done some really nasty things with the humans who have joined them. I'd reconsider joining them.
15776
Post by: Space Marine
Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:Tau have actually done some really nasty things with the humans who have joined them. I'd reconsider joining them.
you mean like on dark crusade at the end if the tau win they put the humans through an education program where you get chased by a hungry greater knarloc whats trying to eat you and sometimes you do get eaten if one person steps out of line they put you through the education program again unlike the imperials where they just kill the heretic then search for there allies and kill them as well
10906
Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
Space Marine wrote:Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:Tau have actually done some really nasty things with the humans who have joined them. I'd reconsider joining them.
you mean like on dark crusade at the end if the tau win they put the humans through an education program where you get chased by a hungry greater knarloc whats trying to eat you and sometimes you do get eaten if one person steps out of line they put you through the education program again unlike the imperials where they just kill the heretic then search for there allies and kill them as well
At the end of DC they sterilize everyone and re-educate them, I think you are thinking of FailStorm.
11653
Post by: Huffy
No, Space marine is right, they do put them through "re-education" camps and feed them to greater knarlocs, dirty commies
10906
Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
So they did. Still though it supports my theory of fighting those blue bastards
7653
Post by: Corpsesarefun
Lord-Loss wrote:The Imperial get defeated by the Tau, so we would have no chance.
A lasgun isnt to effective vs Tau armour, and are weapons are alot weaker.
Lasguns are mild lasers, i think you will find humanity has alot of VERY superior weaponry 
17284
Post by: Cocaloch
"Tell Rednecks, the irish, and other such peoples that they will enforce a planet wide prohibition "
^ Makes me quite sad.
Also the difference between Fascism and communism is that Fascism is Totalitarian and Capitalist, while Communism is Totalitarian and Socialist.
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Could we please have more false interpretetions of political systems?
Or just return to the topic.. 
Lets assume the worst case scenario:
Tau are in charge here.
Maybe they are already....
9550
Post by: Tema69
Shrike78 wrote:Well, considering how long and bloody the history of Racism, violent religious differences, and plain good old-fashioned don't-show-the-kids violence is in the collective history of earth's combined cultures, I think even a race so far ahead of our own as far as technology goes would be hardpressed to occupy our planet...
As a race we just loooove killing things and if they're blue and we're not that's just another great reason to get up in arms.
Though some might argue that they could take advantage of our disunity, there are a few things that would ensure that all factions fight the invaders:
Tell religous nuts that they're gay
Tell Rednecks, the irish, and other such peoples that they will enforce a planet wide prohibition
Tell Corporations that they will be rergulated
Show the Bloods what they look like without their armor on
Tell most of the U.S. that they're illegal aliens coming to take our jobs
etc
I laughed.
10279
Post by: focusedfire
1hadhq wrote:Earth would need to be a barren cold rock to be ever ruled by Tau.
Why should we accept commie space ants as suppressors?
Who is to say we haven't already?
Reading this thread has been amusing. Some of you appear to fling words around without truly understanding there basic meaning and concepts. I've got a hint about one of these words. Every race depicted in 40K would qualify as fascist. This is because Fascism is not really a type of government but rather a morally superior mindset that Dictatorial governments instill within their populace to encourage an unquestioning loyalty to the regime in power and its actions.
Now, The most appropriate descriptor would be of any race in the 40K world would be Totalitarian. Many think Totalitarian and Fascist are the same. This is inaccurate, it is more that they go hand in hand. Fascism being the tool of totalitarian governments.
The next most appropriate descriptor of any race within the 40K universe would be Imperialist(With the possible exception of Tyranids). This is because every race is currently engaged in a constant state of war to expand their territories or protecting the resources for a future expansion.
Now the Tau are a Collectivist species. Collectivist does not equal Communist. When you hear the word collectivist, think a farmers co- op rather than Soviet Russia. Collectivism is more of a pooling of private property and resources for the greater good of the group. Communism there is no private property. Now if anyone points to soviet russia to argue this point please to understand that they were never communist but rather socialist. Before anyone argues that point I invite you to read up on them.
Any other descriptors are irrelevant due to the fact there is not enough background fluff on finances(Is their money and how is it transacted)or Politics(Aside from inter-bueracracy in-fighting within the Imperium) to clealy state any system types clearly.
Later guys, This was quick post and sorry if I sound abrupt. It is not my intention to sound so.
18435
Post by: Kragura
1hadhq wrote:What i ve heard Tau keep their tech to themselves, so your stuck with your old guns.
18189
Post by: Voronesh
Ow my, there are misconceptions of actual political systems, and misconceptions of the 40k world here......
Kinda sad.
17321
Post by: deadratman
1hadhq wrote:What i ve heard Tau keep their tech to themselves, so your stuck with your old guns.
Well sometimes they do a little tinkering with thier allies' guns. Why do you think that kroot guns have a chance of killing stuff?
18672
Post by: WarhammerTabletop
Tau would be awesome if they ruled earth (if you were a tau and not human though!) Tau don't like humans I think, they call them guers'va or something it means lowest rank or something.
17354
Post by: airman
If the Tau ruled the Earth there would probably be world wide segregation. The
Tau sectors of the planet would be cultural megacenters filled with librarys and
research centers, but the Human sectors would look like the bad side of Detroit.
2515
Post by: augustus5
I think President Obama is a proxy Tau and the congress are his etherial caste buddies.
They want to take from those of us who work hard to better ourselves and give to those who don't work For The Greater Good.
17466
Post by: Doombot001
augustus5 wrote:I think President Obama is a proxy Tau and the congress are his etherial caste buddies.
They want to take from those of us who work hard to better ourselves and give to those who don't work For The Greater Good.
The Tau would force everyone to work. Those that wouldn't would be dragged behind the storage shed and shot.
18277
Post by: Khornholio
If the Tau controlled Earth they'd brainwash us all by putting small propaganda boxes in our homes telling us what to and how to think and behave in what they deem as socially acceptable behaviour.
Ever notice that TV got really popular after the 1947 Roswell crash?
But seriously, if they controlled Earth it'd be same gak, different day. "Meet the new Boss. Same as the old Boss."
18870
Post by: comidore
We would when in the assault.
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
They would make so >.> <.< NO MORE BABIES! and they will let kroot eat us/fling poop at us if we fight back.
16216
Post by: SgtDavi
Xav wrote:Well they have superior tech and could easily kill us all, and i think the whole world united under a communist banner would be great.
Yeah man, Communism is great! Just look at North Korea!
2438
Post by: Durandal
corpsesarefun wrote:
This is the second post you have failed with your knowledge of politics, the tau are closer to communism (the opposite of facism).
Actually, Fascism is a stepping stone to communism. Fascism maintains a market, but private ownership is curtailed and the state is the largest consumer of goods.
As good communists, the Tau would have a 5 year plan to "Modernize" Earth. Human collaborators would most likely act as guards, guides and overseers to the general human workforce.
16953
Post by: Thelaugher
This is the second post you have failed with your knowledge of politics, the tau are closer to communism (the opposite of facism).
Facism and communism are actually really simillar the only major difference is that facism is more based on nationalism.
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Why is every one saying that Tau are power hungry fascist rulers?Fascism is defined as the strong rule and must defeat the weak. Tau is definately not Fascist. Unless your thick as mud you should see that it is actually the oppisite. They encourage diversity and give the race the option to join in "The Greater Good" before blowing up the planet. In a way the Imperium is a Fascist government. Yeah yeah. I know what your going to say " Blasphemy, die heretic!"But here me out. Every world is obligated to raise armies and produce war material.That is simalar to WWII germany and Italy where every males over age had to serve 2 compulsory years in milatary service. Second there are ruling overlords who want to rule the galaxy through war. Sounds alot like Hitler speaking does it not? And now I know what you are going to say. "We said Tau are Communists!" Communism is a type of fascist goverment that use the morale "You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar." By telling the workers that they are the foundation of the the country they have the civillian vote to stay in power. This is NOT like Tau rule. They strive for union in common cause, and unlike Fascistim where there is only one Grand Ruler supported by a few consel members, there is more than one ruler and they probably have a diplomat from each caste.
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Tau are still commies.
Look at their ruling caste.
Communist party anyone?
If you like those fascist examples soo much, remember that most of them were "socialists " too.
The Red and the brown are not so different as you want to believe.
Plus dont forget most tyrants have a bunch of supportes....
So yes, working without benefits for an illusionary goal is communism at its purest.
10279
Post by: focusedfire
Caste = Class /= Communist
Communism is a classless society and as much as the fluff alludes to a system of equality the presence of the caste system precludes communism.
Try again
19005
Post by: penut the butter
That is not enough proof. Fasistism and communism have social hiearchies. Tau rule is based on an equal basis(like democracy)where everyone needs each others skills. The only reason the Etherals rule is because they show exceptional leadership.
And Ihadhq using your proof you are,in essence, calling your beloved Imperium a Communist/Fascist government. Remember that the humans of the imperium believe they are all-powerful and perfect and that they must purge the galaxy of the weak xenos.
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
Beastmaster wrote:The tau may have superior tech, but the human race is FAR more numerous than the tau. Even if they have superior tech, they would be outnumbered and outgunned. We'll stick it to those blue commie space ants!
Yes...an Empire that spans several planets is less populous than Earth....?
logic fail.
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
People often mistaken Socialism as Communism as Communism is a form of Socialism.
The Tau are a Socialist Government, With a ruling elite social class system. Then dividing the remaining sub-species into their permanent class, so there is no chance to do what you were not born to do.
To them Humans are Gue'la, or lowest of the Beings. Insulting name, don't you think? In Tau society I have not heard of them being nothing more then militia reserves and low class citizens.
Thinking that the Tau are more powerful then the Imperium is just wrong. The only reason the Tau are still around is because the Imperium has bigger, badder, meaner threats that need their attention. The Tau may have powerful Battle suits, formidable Hover Tanks, and impressive infantry weapons, But so did man in the past, and even with the reverse in technology, the man-power behind the weapon is still far stronger then that of the Tau.
AND quite possibly the biggest limitation to the Tau, no Psyker potential. This means no Warp Travel... Thus they are limited to their little region and their ever so slow expansion.
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Empires/imperiums are always democracy-free space.
Why should mankind not purge the galaxy of those who try to exterminate or enslave them?
Threats in 40k are real threats. If the need arises to have a saviour and he demands to get rid of the threat, do you really believe
the masses refuse to follow ?
PS: its the grimdark here not star trek.
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Well Hitler said something simalar did he not? Didn't he say to purge the world of jews?
Logic:
Imperium=Nazi Germany=Fascistism
High Lord of Terra=Hitler
Believers in the Imperial Truth=Nazi Followers
xenos=jews
Using this logic we can see that the imperium is very much like a Communist/Fascist government is it not?
9708
Post by: Orkeosaurus
The Imperium seems to have Fascism and Imperialism as it's forms of government, with some Theocracy thrown in for good measure. It seems a lot less totalitarian than the Tau empire though. I'd probably take the Imperium over the Tau if I had a choice.
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
The Imperium is a tricky subject when it come to labeling a particular Government or set of Ideals to it.
Parts of the Imperium are Feudal, Such as feudal worlds ruled by lords and tamed by peasants. Most notably are the Space Marines, which are described as having a system similar to the midevil feudal system.
Places like Necromunda is described to be a system similar to, or what I see best as, the British government and social structure of the 16th century and up. You have your nobles and their families at top, then you have your merchants and guilds, then your commoners, then your slum-livers. But even though it is a class system, it is not a socialist government.
The Imperium is an Empire, ruled by an Emperor, controlled by a panel of lords. Governors control small parts and give taxes and resources for the Empire to survive, very similar to a feudal structure.
Nazi Germany is no way like the Imperium. There is no Hitler in 40k. The Emperor is depicted as a wise man, seeking only the survival, and the assertion of mankind as rulers of the stars. Hitler's plan was to make Humanity strong by ridding it of the weak. Humans fear Xenos, and through this fear they deem Xenos inferior to support their fear. The High Lords are more of a council to keep the Imperium whole, they spout fear and hatred for xenos to keep mankind together, Hitler was not concerned with unity, but purity and his divine right.
One segment you did not mention, but must have been a part to your "Logic" must have been the Inquisition. Very similar to the Spanish Inquisition, these people fight ever so hard for what they believe is right, and to preserve the Imperium, eliminating those who threaten its existence. They may take things to the extreme, but who wouldn't. In a "Us or Them" environment, it is just that, Us or Them. What side will you chose?
Hitler was a fascist not a communist. Stalin was a Fascist/communist, though he made a real bad communist. Communist is were we are all equal, what is yours, is mine, and what is mine, is yours. And Stalin, and his elite, sure did have a hard time sharing... well the didn't so they were Heretics to their own beliefs.
11857
Post by: Ludovic
What's this about people calling Obama a secret Tau? Everyone knows he's a Lord of Change...
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
This thread has been filled with some of the most uneducated statements I have heard in quite some time. Between people slinging around Communism and Nazism (incorrectly for the most part), and the people who have proceeded to make statements about the Tau (which again, many have been incorrect)...it is quite ridiculous.
People, please take some time to read some history, and some 40K backround on the Tau before you come back to this discussion.
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
instead of calling people idiots, why don't you correct them or offer your opposing opinion.
People are correct in their links to communism and fascist governments, even though they are not those types of governments. How is stating common links "Uneducated" when they are calling it how they see it?
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Sanchez01 wrote:
Nazi Germany is no way like the Imperium. There is no Hitler in 40k. The Emperor is depicted as a wise man, seeking only the survival, and the assertion of mankind as rulers of the stars.
I thought we might hit that little snag. In my post I did not call the emperor a futuristic hitler. He was probably somthing like a Julius Caeser(a very great and wise ruler of rome). If you clearly read my post it says HIGH LORD OF TERRA=HITLER. The high lords of terra and Inquistors have become corrupt except a few in the Daemonhunters. They have so much fear about being overthrown that they cunduct Exterminatus for a little rebellion that can be stopped with a sqad of guardsmen.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crap. I accidentally erased the end of quote switch.
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
Ahh, indeed you did, I got ahead of myself. Though I wouldn't call the High Lords the Hitler of the Imperium.
Hitler got Germany out of a depression, High Lords have not done such a feat.
Hitler united a nation, and got them to back him up on his crazy ideas... High Lords have not...
I believe calling them Hitler is calling them something better then they really are. They have not accomplished anything. The Imperium is crumbling under their control. And with the Golden Throne failing, the Imperium, IMO could use a crazy Hitler to get order established.
Well now that I think of it, would you agree with me about calling Horus a Hilter-type? Great man in his own right, then gone all crazy and ruined so many lives.
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Your right. Well you could probably call a high Lord of Terra one of many incompetant roman emperors(to numerous to name) or George Bush.But I agree with you calling Horus, Hitler
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
Come on, lets leave Bush out of this.
15667
Post by: Emperors Faithful
If the Tau came here, my 1st thought would be "Who next?". But I think I would preferably have Earth take care of its own defences than get yoked under the incompetent shackles of the Imperium. (Hey, I love the dude, not the system).
I don't trust Tau. Humans would most certainly be treatee as 2nd class citizens. Also, there was some fluff (forget where) about Tau discreetly infertilzing the humans of an allied planet, to make room for tau colonisation. If I had to make a choice, I'd want to throw my lot in with the Imperium, they are looking out for HUMANITES needs after all. I wouldn't want to be at the beck and call of an alien.
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
I agree... About your fluff... at the end of Dark Crusade they say the Tau did that to the captured humans
19005
Post by: penut the butter
EF. 2nd class citezen is better than no class slave.
Sorry Sanchez01. What's wrong with bring Bush into the disscussion?
15667
Post by: Emperors Faithful
@Penut: ...mabye, but that's only how it would START OUT. You realize as well as I that the yoke would grow heavier.
On another general point about Tau dickery/trickery there are hints suggesting that the vespid stingwings leader...helmet things...are in fact mind controled. That with these helmets, the tau have assumed control of the leaders and therefore the entire race.
19005
Post by: penut the butter
The conspiracy unleashed!
9708
Post by: Orkeosaurus
If worse came to worst, you could always defect to chaos. (Like Nurgle. He seems pretty easy, just sit around and vomit on people every once in a while.)
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
@penut the Buter - Don't Worry about it, I just don't like the unfair prejudice on the guy or the common use as a scapegoat.
btw, what do you mean about a no class slave? if you are "middle Class" and depending on the world you are on, you would live like we enjoy here in america and canada... or are you refering to the slum life like on necromunda? ha ha ha... I guess its location location location
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Yeah but if you become a Daemonprince of Nurgle you spend eternity as a pus bag with dung for brains
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
Thats why slaanesh is the answer 
9708
Post by: Orkeosaurus
That's the thing about the Imperium.
If you're not actively involved in the imperial government (which you usually aren't) everything is dependent on your planet.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
@Penut: Hmm maybe the fact that Bush is nothing like anything in 40k. Or the fact that pulling Bush into this is like pulling Nazis into an argument, they just don't belong.
Soon there will be a George W. Bush Jr equivalent to Godwin's Law.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitle7vljslfu?from=Main.GodwinsLaw
I'm gonna call it; "Stynier's Law" yeah its egotistical but if that dude gets his named after him I should get one named after my handle on this forum.
Stynier's Law, is basicly the Bush Jr. equivalent to Godwin's Law, and theorizes that the longer and discussion on the internet goes on, mainly about Politics or the United States. The greater the chance Bush will be brought up.
Oh and I rather be a slave in the Imperial Guard and able to have a family, than dead under Tau rule.
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Post by: Sanchez01
Idk, but to me the Tau seem to have a sinister secret agenda, and that would scare the hell out of me. what would you guys say this agenda is? EDIT: @ Brother Stynier... well at least under the Tau rule you will not need to by any form of birth control
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
penut the butter wrote:Yeah but if you become a Daemonprince of Nurgle you spend eternity as a pus bag with dung for brains
Daemon prince? Nah, I'll settle for rotting husk shambling around spreading illness. I think I'd be great at serving the lord of despair; if there's one trait I have in spades, it's apathy.
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Post by: penut the butter
Sanchez01 wrote:@penut the Buter - Don't Worry about it, I just don't like the unfair prejudice on the guy or the common use as a scapegoat.
btw, what do you mean about a no class slave? if you are "middle Class" and depending on the world you are on, you would live like we enjoy here in america and canada... or are you refering to the slum life like on necromunda? ha ha ha... I guess its location location location
I am just refering to Greek Hierachy. Slaves would have no Citezenship. IIRC from 5th grade social studies about ancient civillization, Slaves wouldn't be even considred full human beings.
15667
Post by: Emperors Faithful
@Sanchez: Um...making humans infertile and replaceing us with Tau?
@Stynier: Didn't understand WTF was with the talk about Bush, but I agree with your last line.
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Post by: Sanchez01
penut the butter wrote:
I am just refering to Greek Hierachy. Slaves would have no Citezenship. IIRC from 5th grade social studies about ancient civillization, Slaves wouldn't be even considred full human beings.
Ahh I know what you mean... I don't recall the Imperium having slaves... just servitors which were taken from the scum around and turned into brain dead slaves... i just know I would not want to live in necromunda  EDIT: @ Emperor's Faith... Lol, it was a joke... I would go Imperium all the way buddy.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
There would be slavery in the Imperium, but not legalised. In fact, an Inquisitor was reffered to helping an arbites take down a slavery ring. (Granted for his own purposes but still...) Honestly, I think that slavery is not something the Imperium encourages. On the other hand, you could say that the men and women working the factories are practically enslaved. Working all day for little pay, often as not.
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
The Imperium has slaves, of quite a few different sorts. However, most of the humans under Imperial rule don't get caught up in it (although getting caught up in the slave trade of their own planet is another hazard...).
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
P.S. Read my sig. Says it all.
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Post by: Sanchez01
The best reason of all
Imperium has Pie, Tau do not.
I believe the savery in the Imperium is not like what we think of it here... heck being a slave for a rich man is way better then living a ganger's life or that of a guardsmen if terms of having it easy and luxury.
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Post by: penut the butter
EF. Nazis,Roman Empire,Bush all had some part in the disscussion of incompetence and the so-called "Fascistism" of the Tau
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bye Bye Miss Imperial Pie.
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
Ever think about the rich dudes...'demands'?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
That was @ sanchez.
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Post by: Sanchez01
Demands? like a cuban cigar? idk what you mean.
EDIT: OOOOOOOoooooooooooo? Demands, i get it now... if SHE was a she, then I would have no problem
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
Sanchez probably doesn't mind, we know he's cool with Slaanesh...
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Post by: penut the butter
Yup!
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
I would rather be a Guardsman becuase...
...where is that picture. *shuffle/rumble* Automatically Appended Next Post: AHA! Here we go...
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Post by: Sanchez01
i cant see the pic man
EDIT: oh ok now it came in... lasergun huh? hmm let me look for something now
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Post by: penut the butter
What picture!?!Where?
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
What? You can't see it? I can see it right here...
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
Broken link for me too.
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Post by: Sanchez01
I had to post before I could see it... it was odd... I cant find a pic to match yours, the best I could do is this
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Post by: penut the butter
What's the picture!?!
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Post by: Sanchez01
EDIT: ok
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
It should work.
@Sanchez: I laugh at your feeble comeback, and fart in your general direction!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Sanchz: Oi! Don't ruin it! (Quick, edit it out!)
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Post by: Sanchez01
You want a great reason to join the Imperial Guard then how about this? 
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Post by: Emperors Faithful
...she's just spotted you eyeing her from across the room...and she's loading her gun...I gotta say sanchez it's not looking good for ya.
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Post by: penut the butter
MMM
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Post by: Sanchez01
is this better?
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Post by: Che-Vito
Sanchez01 wrote:instead of calling people idiots, why don't you correct them or offer your opposing opinion.
If you read my post, I called nobody an idiot.
My opinion is simple: As with many things in the 40k universe, trying to compare it to our world as we know it always falls quite short. It is hard to not slap a hand to the forehead when reading, "Da Tauz are Obama's overlordz!!", or comparing our governments (past and present) to interstellar empires....
Are there shared aspects in 40k races and their ruling, and historical situations in our world? Some. But making broad generalizations about them does the 40k universe quite a bit of injustice. Much like our world, none of the governments are ideal "Communism, Facism, Athenian-Democracy, Representative Republic, etc...".
So, I will put it simply.
1) use the correct definitions of the terms you are using (not what you THINK it means...)
2) go into more depth when posting, it will require time and thought, but by breaking down individual elements with 40k races, you can establish a better picture
3) use of the above two can result in posts that sound, and appear, educated.
Sanchez01 wrote:People are correct in their links to communism and fascist governments, even though they are not those types of governments. How is stating common links "Uneducated" when they are calling it how they see it?
People using the incorrect definition are incorrect. By reading over this thread, it is quite clear that many people are going off of "what the know", as opposed to the definition of said terms. And quite frankly, many of the comparisons to historical governments have been fuzzy at best.
Do I have time to go through and correct them all? No.
Can I suggest that these people read up a bit, and revisit the thread? Absolutely.
Naturally the suggestion to read some more, and educate oneself on the topics at hand doesn't go over well, as many of the gamers I know consider themselves to be history buffs/knowers of all that relates to it. Isn't pride a bummer?
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Post by: Orkeosaurus
I think it has less to do with pride, and more to do with coming into a thread and saying that "some people" are uneducated and need to go do a bunch of research, while not making any effort to specify what people you're talking about.
Unless you expect every person who posts in the thread to go double check everything they've written.
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Post by: sniperjolly
Well consider that for the last 50 years have been spent on a vast propaganda campaign against aliens, how they are all evil and how one scrappy group or rag-tag team of survivors always manages to pull off victory in the end. No matter how futile, you are the resistance, many nukes would be flung, many men would be conscripted and many battle tanks would be owned.
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Post by: Sanchez01
Calling people uneducated is the same thing as calling them an idiot.
If you have a problem with people going off what they know, they run for office and change the education system. You may not have time to correct them all, but you do have time to correct and Idea... a majority of the people call them space commies. Why? Because they say things that make people think of Communism. "Come join us for the greater good!" Now that sounds very much like the propaganda used by the Communist Parties of the world. To join together and create a wonderful world. So instead of bashing them straight up, look at what they are coming from... What I have said is the only link I could think of and it is an easy one to pick up and say, "Hey they sound like Commies."
So Go and Correct the Idea of communism, do not worry about correcting the individual. And Time... you don't have enough, I don't have enough, and I will guess they don't have enough... Why bother spelling out so much? Some people just don't want to bother with it, making a statement on what they think, not trying to debate some other person.
So, now write up why it is not communism, be nice, and let the debating continue.
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Post by: Che-Vito
Sanchez01 wrote:Calling people uneducated is the same thing as calling them an idiot.
If you have a problem with people going off what they know, they run for office and change the education system. You may not have time to correct them all, but you do have time to correct and Idea... a majority of the people call them space commies. Why? Because they say things that make people think of Communism. "Come join us for the greater good!" Now that sounds very much like the propaganda used by the Communist Parties of the world. To join together and create a wonderful world. So instead of bashing them straight up, look at what they are coming from... What I have said is the only link I could think of and it is an easy one to pick up and say, "Hey they sound like Commies."
So Go and Correct the Idea of communism, do not worry about correcting the individual. And Time... you don't have enough, I don't have enough, and I will guess they don't have enough... Why bother spelling out so much? Some people just don't want to bother with it, making a statement on what they think, not trying to debate some other person.
So, now write up why it is not communism, be nice, and let the debating continue.
Ah young Padawan, you will learn.
In my last post, I specifically said that the 40k races share traits with multiple historical groups, and also have some traits unique to the 40k universe. Yet again, you have just branded them Communists and called it a day...you do need to read on Communism.
Why do you ask?
Well, which "Communists" are you comparing them to?
-FARC, a Communist guerrilla group heavily involved in drug/human trade
-EZLN, a Communist guerrilla group that bans all drugs/alcohol, and environmental damage on it's property...as well as being highly supportive of GLBT rights
-Soviet style "Communism" which is far more authoritarian than the listed above two
-Cuban "Communism" which is quite authoritarian, although has created more for the people than the Soviets did (mainly a healthcare and education system)
Need I go on? No.
Be specific.
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Post by: penut the butter
Let's see. First off we know that communism is sort off a hybrid of socialism and Fascistism. Second we know that Joeseph stalin was a tyrant but still managed to get into a fair number of peoples good books by telling workers they were the foundation of the country.
This is sortof like Tau empire rule.
But after reading Tau fluff I have reached the conclusion that it is a hybrid of democracy,communism and monarchy.
Reasons
1: Democratic-like because they are perfectly fine with incorperating other peoples into thier empire like the USA
2: Communist-like because everyone is told they are helping to lay the foundation of the empire like WWII/Cold War Russia
Monarch-like as there are a few leaders and a social(no matter how vauge)climbing like 12th-15 century europe or an ant colony.
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Post by: Sanchez01
My point was, People are making generalized statements. And if you want to poke holes in them, find the time and do it. If you read my posts, I agree with you that they are not Communist, but rather bits a pieces of many forms of government.
EDIT: @ Penut the butter... you are forgetting something... Think of this, Stalin stayed in power with his brutality... the Eatherials stay in power by biochemistry... are they tyranical in the sense of they force their will to be done? or is it a natural hierarchy much like a bug colony?
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Post by: Che-Vito
Sanchez01 wrote:. What I have said is the only link I could think of and it is an easy one to pick up and say, "Hey they sound like Commies.".
Sanchez01 wrote: If you read my posts, I agree with you that they are not Communist, but rather bits a pieces of many forms of government.
penut the butter wrote:Let's see. First off we know that communism is sort off a hybrid of socialism and Fascistism.
Not quite. Communism is it's own thing, and although many Communist movements have had a core of nationalism to them....Facism has not been a common element in all of them.
I believe breaking down individual elements of Tau society is the only way to look at this (as you have begun to do Penut the Butter).
Personally, would I welcome Tau rule if they came? I couldn't tell you, depends on what the offered us, how they treated us, etc.
19005
Post by: penut the butter
I said Eatherals were monarch like. And Stalin was a two faced man who used brutality when he couldn't sweet talk workers(unlikley).By the middle of the war Stalin had almost all of russia believing in communism. Watch Enemy at the Gates. They always talk about how Communism will triumph in the end.
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Post by: Sanchez01
You would welcome a race that calls us Gue'la... Or lowest of beings? That shows how they see Humans... In Imperial Rule one thing is sure, the placement of Humanity as the ruler of the stars... that is an Idea to fight for.
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Post by: penut the butter
Yes but the human worlds they find usually are very primitive. And if they dont agree they get slaughtered. That would be another blow to the imperium another million souls at least that are dead.
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Post by: Sanchez01
indeed penut...
One thing that gets me is how they say Join the Greater Good, and if you don't they attack... sounds like the Korean war and Vietnam to me... again a link to the generalized Communism
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Post by: penut the butter
Yes but I just found the reason why humans are called Guela. Lowest of the beings, tech wise. Yes but if its a huge empire comprised of more than 5 planets you want to all have the same religion to unify your people. Of course there will be veriations( Christianity can be split into Christianity[the closest to the orignal]Catholim and protestant) but if you come across a race that will not embrace them, they are someone you must kill off quickly or you could find yourself in a religous civil war.
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Post by: 1hadhq
There is one thing to remember: Tau fear civil war.
They are happy with their etherals suppressing them into some form of peace.
Now humans are good at one thing: finding a reason to start a war. If there is no xenos, just go against your neighbour.
Exactly what the Tau wont desire in their "empire".
Humans will not be affected from their etherals. So Tau leave them a few seconds alone and blam, next civil unrest.
So you ask why humans do follow their emperor and not start a civil war....oh wait....Horus heresy....apostasy... attempts to declare
to leave the imperium...maybe its inbuilt?
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Post by: penut the butter
yes but we are disscussing humans called guela who have no account of the Emperor.And these are humans who have no ranged weaponry other than bows and spears
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Post by: Sanchez01
They call humanity Gua'la... down right Insulting... Humanity has better tech then the Orks, and most of the Tau's own allies. Space Marines a genetically suppiror to the Tau, and I even the basic Human is more advanced then the Tau... The Dark Age of Tech anyone? Humanity is capaible of far more them the Tau give them credit for... and the word Gue'la is more then enough to go to war for...
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Not Space marines(face palm) regular humans on stone age era planets in the tau empire who are cut off from the Imperium.(sigh)
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Post by: Sanchez01
They still call all humans this, even though they clearly are not.
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Post by: 1hadhq
1) everything other races do, humans do better.
2) even bare handed humans would kick Tau asses.
3) arent we discussing "to rule" ? If its just " to slay", then i have to put in the exterminatus, something not available to Tau.
4) or did we leave the "earth" and go for a feudal backwater planet because the minor bluegrey threat cant threathen anything
that has evolved over the use of stoneaxes?
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Makes no sense at all. Space marines may not have plasma rifle and railguns but humans have one thing tau dont. Apocalyptic Exterminatus and Thermonuclear,Hydrogen, and Biological warheads
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
1 yes
2 yes
3 idk
4 idk
19005
Post by: penut the butter
3=yes
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
Space Marines my not have Plasma Rifles, but they have Plama Pistols, Plasma Guns, Plasma Cannons, and the Rest of the Imperium have other such Plasma Weapons including Plasma Blast Cannons...
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Oh yeah...
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
Sanchez01 wrote:indeed penut...
One thing that gets me is how they say Join the Greater Good, and if you don't they attack... sounds like the Korean war and Vietnam to me... again a link to the generalized Communism
You won't let up on this, will you?
Hitler did similar things with the European nations. By your logic, the Tau now have a link to Nazism.
The American government did that same thing to Native Americans with their lands, by your logic, the Tau now have a link to a Representative Democracy.
Alexander the Great did the same thing with tribes and cities he encountered, by your logic, the Tau now have a link to Alexander the Great.
Generalized communism?? I guess anyone in history who has given the option, "Join us or die/be oppressed" is a Communist?
penut the butter wrote:Yes but the human worlds they find usually are very primitive. And if they dont agree they get slaughtered. That would be another blow to the imperium another million souls at least that are dead.
Quote this. Quote this. Quote this.
Sanchez01 wrote:You would welcome a race that calls us Gue'la... Or lowest of beings? That shows how they see Humans... In Imperial Rule one thing is sure, the placement of Humanity as the ruler of the stars... that is an Idea to fight for.
Really, do you know the translation of Gue'vesa? It seems you don't.
Gue'vesa, aka, human helpers is the name for the human race in the Tau language. Gue'la, and Gue'ui are both military ranks...referring to Soldiers and Sergeants, respectively.
penut the butter wrote:I said Eatherals were monarch like. And Stalin was a two faced man who used brutality when he couldn't sweet talk workers(unlikley).By the middle of the war Stalin had almost all of russia believing in communism. Watch Enemy at the Gates. They always talk about how Communism will triumph in the end.
Ethereals have more in common with a board of directors for a company. Although Aun'Va is seen by many to be the "head" of the Ethereals, in the novels, the high Ethereals function much more like a committee.
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Post by: Sanchez01
Che-Vito wrote:
You won't let up on this, will you?
Hitler did similar things with the European nations. By your logic, the Tau now have a link to Nazism.
The American government did that same thing to Native Americans with their lands, by your logic, the Tau now have a link to a Representative Democracy.
Alexander the Great did the same thing with tribes and cities he encountered, by your logic, the Tau now have a link to Alexander the Great.
Generalized communism?? I guess anyone in history who has given the option, "Join us or die/be oppressed" is a Communist?
In Most Totalitarian governments the people are blind the the leader's Ambitions, they do what they are told. Soviet Russia was a totalitarian government whitch we Americans called Communist... This communism we saw was bad, it was scary, and it was anti-american. Was it true Communism? No, but what did we call it? Communism.
Che-Vito wrote:
Really, do you know the translation of Gue'vesa? It seems you don't.
Gue'vesa, aka, human helpers is the name for the human race in the Tau language. Gue'la, and Gue'ui are both military ranks...referring to Soldiers and Sergeants, respectively.
Gue'la - Human
Gue'vesa - Human Helper
Gue'vesa'la - Human Axillary Trooper
Gue'vesa'ui - Human Axillary Squad Leader
Che-Vito wrote:
Ethereals have more in common with a board of directors for a company. Although Aun'Va is seen by many to be the "head" of the Ethereals, in the novels, the high Ethereals function much more like a committee.
They are more like a group of Queen Bees. Using their genetic oppression of the less sub-species of Tau (earth/air/fire/water) to do what they wish.
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Post by: 1hadhq
Che-Vito wrote:Gue'vesa, aka, human helpers is the name for the human race in the Tau language. Gue'la, and Gue'ui are both military ranks...referring to Soldiers and Sergeants, respectively.
I think my Tau codex disagrees with your translation.
Gue vesa = auxilary human "cannonfodder"
Gue la = humans , translating to something as honorable as the eldars "mon keigh"
Che-Vito wrote:
Ethereals have more in common with a board of directors for a company. Although Aun'Va is seen by many to be the "head" of the Ethereals, in the novels, the high Ethereals function much more like a committee.
Fine, committee. Lead by a secretary......where is the red flag hidden?
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Post by: Sanchez01
1hadhq wrote:
Gue vesa = auxilary human "cannonfodder"
I do remember reading somewhere it was human helper... but again it is an alien language and there are mistranslated words 
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
Sanchez01 wrote:
In Most Totalitarian governments the people are blind the the leader's Ambitions, they do what they are told. Soviet Russia was a totalitarian government whitch we Americans called Communist... This communism we saw was bad, it was scary, and it was anti-american. Was it true Communism? No, but what did we call it? Communism.
Wonderful! Now break that cycle of incorrectness!
Sanchez01 wrote:
Gue'la - Human
Gue'vesa - Human Helper
Gue'vesa'la - Human Axillary Trooper
Gue'vesa'ui - Human Axillary Squad Leader
Wonderful. Now that we have that out of the way, explain how this is insulting. Calling a human, a human...insulting?
When the Tau reference human's, they often shorthand it as "Gue'la" "Gue'ui"...when refering to the race, it is either "Gue'la or Gue'vesa", more commonly the latter.
Sanchez01 wrote:They are more like a group of Queen Bees. Using their genetic oppression of the less sub-species of Tau (earth/air/fire/water) to do what they wish.
Possibly. Again, let's see some quotations here. There have been subtle hints at the kind of control the Ethereals wield over the other Castes, but show me something definitive. While you're at it, please share where you have read that the other Castes are oppressed...I have not reading anything along those lines. Automatically Appended Next Post: 1hadhq wrote:
I think my Tau codex disagrees with your translation.
Gue vesa = auxilary human "cannonfodder"
Gue la = humans , translating to something as honorable as the eldars "mon keigh"
Do you have a foreign language codex (not sarcastic with this question)? I have both 3rd and 4th edition codexes, and neither of them contain rules for the Human Aux. There are Human Aux rules available through the GW website...
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Post by: Sanchez01
Che-Vito wrote:
Wonderful! Now break that cycle of incorrectness!
That is what I have been saying the whole time. People are referring to the generalized form of Communism
Che-Vito wrote:
Wonderful. Now that we have that out of the way, explain how this is insulting. Calling a human, a human...insulting?
When the Tau reference human's, they often shorthand it as "Gue'la" "Gue'ui"...when refering to the race, it is either "Gue'la or Gue'vesa", more commonly the latter.
Gue'la is roughly translated as lowest being. Calling a human lesser to an Infant race that has not, and quite possibly could not survive, the hardships man has. And to call humans lesser is just an insult. Now if they had a name for humans... like the orks call them 'Umies. That would be different. The Humans call the Tau what they call them selves.. and the Tau cannot call humans Humans?
Che-Vito wrote:
Possibly. Again, let's see some quotations here. There have been subtle hints at the kind of control the Ethereals wield over the other Castes, but show me something definitive. While you're at it, please share where you have read that the other Castes are oppressed...I have not reading anything along those lines.
Shas'O O'Shovah... after leaving the Eatherial's presences he was able to do as he wish and defy the Eatherials... something he could not do in their presence
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Post by: Che-Vito
Sanchez01 wrote:
One thing that gets me is how they say Join the Greater Good, and if you don't they attack... sounds like the Korean war and Vietnam to me... again a link to the generalized Communism
Sanchez01 wrote:That is what I have been saying the whole time. People are referring to the generalized form of Communism
Yes, and you are included in that group of "people".
Sanchez01 wrote:
Gue'la is roughly translated as lowest being. Calling a human lesser to an Infant race that has not, and quite possibly could not survive, the hardships man has. And to call humans lesser is just an insult. Now if they had a name for humans... like the orks call them 'Umies. That would be different. The Humans call the Tau what they call them selves.. and the Tau cannot call humans Humans?
You have yet to quote me this. I have read nothing of the sort, as of yet, the only definition we have, of terms that the Tau use to refer to humans, is "Gue'vesa", aka, Human Helpers.
If Gue'la is so insulting, then give us a link to back up your opinion. As of yet, it has no backing.
Sanchez01 wrote:Shas'O O'Shovah... after leaving the Eatherial's presences he was able to do as he wish and defy the Eatherials... something he could not do in their presence
The Codex simply states that he lost direction, moderation, etc. This is not definitive, although cumulatively it may have something to it. The codex can be quite clearly read (aka, without twisting word definitions) to say that he lost his ability to reel in his temper after his Ethereal died. The Fire Caste is notoriously hot-headed.
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Post by: Sanchez01
According to my copy of the Tau empire codex, 'la' is one of the suffixes used by the Tau to denote an individuals rank within their caste. For instance, common fire warrior troopers are 'Shas'la' while their team leaders may be 'Shas'ui' and a force commander a 'Shas' el'. Presumably 'Gue' is the prefix used to denote a human (or possibly it just means 'alien'). Thus 'Gue'vesa' means 'human helper' (or 'alien ally' or whatever) and 'Gue'la' means human soldier (or 'low ranking alien') Automatically Appended Next Post: Gue: Tau word for Being.
Gue'la: Tau word for Human (lit. “lowest being").
Gue'vesa: Tau word for Human Helper (Auxiliary).
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=1709.0
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
Sanchez01 wrote:According to my copy of the Tau empire codex, 'la' is one of the suffixes used by the Tau to denote an individuals rank within their caste. For instance, common fire warrior troopers are 'Shas'la' while their team leaders may be 'Shas'ui' and a force commander a 'Shas' el'. Presumably 'Gue' is the prefix used to denote a human (or possibly it just means 'alien'). Thus 'Gue'vesa' means 'human helper' (or 'alien ally' or whatever) and 'Gue'la' means human soldier (or 'low ranking alien')
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gue: Tau word for Being.
Gue'la: Tau word for Human (lit. “lowest being").
Gue'vesa: Tau word for Human Helper (Auxiliary).
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=1709.0
Yay for arguing in circles! You have proved nothing we didn't already know!
Several posts back, I specifically discussed how the 'la or 'ui denoted military rank. I also have explained how the Tau more commonly use the phrase "Gue'vesa".
Not insulting, and yes, the rank Gue'ui, and above, does exist.
Now that the language dilemma is aside, let's see some other information regarding the Tau oppressing themselves!
(mind you, I am open to new information about the Tau, but so far you have presented little that has been in-line with everything that I have read about the Tau.)
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
Where do you see Gue'ui?
And as I stated, Gue'la translates into Lowest Being.
As for the Oppression. There has been speculation as for the Tau having an organ that emits a pheromone giving them a control that is not known to man.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ethereal
Now we could argue if this is really oppression. It is an opinionated statement and it could go both ways...
1. They are being forced to do what the Ethereal's want
or
2. It is a natural organ and that is the way their species work...
so i guess call it how you see it
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
Sanchez01 wrote:Where do you see Gue'ui?
And as I stated, Gue'la translates into Lowest Being.
As for the Oppression. There has been speculation as for the Tau having an organ that emits a pheromone giving them a control that is not known to man.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ethereal
Now we could argue if this is really oppression. It is an opinionated statement and it could go both ways...
1. They are being forced to do what the Ethereal's want
or
2. It is a natural organ and that is the way their species work...
so i guess call it how you see it
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tau_Lexicon
Look for Gue'la. It simply means....human.
Yes, the organ is specifically discussed in the 4th Edition codex, written as an Imperium study of the Tau. Although this is speculation, there may be something to it. I don't have that answer.
Gue'ui is simply the military denotation of a Gue'vesa squad leader.
http://theblackship.org/downloads/rules/Tau_human_auxileries.pdf
I would actually be interested to see if there are any stories of Tau wanting to work outside of their normal Caste work. As of yet I haven't read of anything of the sort, it seems that most born into the Fire Caste want to be in the Fire Caste, and are rewarded by their performance and experience (aka, rank advancement).
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
Oh.. Ha ha ha... Forgive me for being persnickety. You were talking about Gue'vesa'ui, not a Gue'ui... A Gue'ui would be something different, maybe a space marine, but idk... never seen it used before.
Well as for working outside of the Caste. I don't see that possible... Each caste seems to be its own sub-species. Think like Humans and Cavemen (I don't want to attempt to spell their name). So I believe its is more of a "You are born to do this, and only this" deal. Plus adding the culture in which they are raised, the propaganda they are fed, the morals issued to them, they have no wish to do anything else... What the Ethereals have done is truly amazing in its own right. But being an Alien to them, Humans have no place at their side. Our nature is too complex for them to fully understand and to deal with.
What would you say about O'Shovah? Doesn't he have no intention of returning to the Empire? Now that he is free from the Ethereal's grips he see differently?
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
Sanchez01 wrote:
Well as for working outside of the Caste. I don't see that possible... Each caste seems to be its own sub-species. Think like Humans and Cavemen (I don't want to attempt to spell their name). So I believe its is more of a "You are born to do this, and only this" deal. Plus adding the culture in which they are raised, the propaganda they are fed, the morals issued to them, they have no wish to do anything else... What the Ethereals have done is truly amazing in its own right. But being an Alien to them, Humans have no place at their side. Our nature is too complex for them to fully understand and to deal with.
I couldn't tell you if it would work on Earth or not. From what is written, the humans under Tau rule do not seem unhappy, only fearful of Imperial retribution.
Sanchez01 wrote:What would you say about O'Shovah? Doesn't he have no intention of returning to the Empire? Now that he is free from the Ethereal's grips he see differently?
Again this is another Tau story that is very vague. It is only commonly cited that O'Shovah couldn't tolerate the practice of trying to unite the galaxy under one Empire, and that he believed the idea of avoiding hand-to-hand combat to be idiotic. I doubt that they will have him return, but I am not sure whether it was the lack of Ethereal's influence on him, or his own personal frustrations with the Tau Empire that led him astray.
I would tend to think that the Ethereal control over the Tau is not comparable to that of insects (aka, the Tau are not mindless drones). An anecdote in Chapter Approved 2004, leads me to believe this, as it contains a story of a Fire Caste commander becoming quite angry, and then being calmed by the Ethereal nearby. As far as this relates to O'Shovah, I believe he left due to his own personal frustrations combined with his hot-headed (Fire Caste, and his Sept are both known for it) nature.
9708
Post by: Orkeosaurus
The Tau Empire would really be a form of aristocracy, wouldn't it?
18195
Post by: aflax1
I believe if they live up to their codex they wouldn't hesitate to add a new race to their cause (and planet.) I would totally love it if we ended up under Tau rule.
FOR THE GREATER GOOD
16335
Post by: Witzkatz
About this discussion what exactly "Gue'la" means:
It was argued that "Gue" means being and " 'la " is a military rank. And that this is nothing insulting. Now, the point that I think is tried to be made is, that 'la is the lowest military rank, leading to the conclusion that "Gue'la" really means "lowest being".
If the Tau would acknowledge human skill, experience and prowess, they maybe would call us "Gue'ui" or something like that. Higher up the "ranks" of beings. But, they do not, and therefore, I don't like them.
15667
Post by: Emperors Faithful
But there are very sinister hints throughout tau fluff, as to thier 'mehtods' and exactly whose greater good everyone is working for...
3081
Post by: chaplaingrabthar
And if you don't agree with the Tau definition of Greater Good, you shall be subjugated and enslaved until you do. The Tau might be a more upbeat race by 40k standards but they still veer towards GRIMDARK on occasion.
15667
Post by: Emperors Faithful
Not subjugated and enslaved. Blown up. And if that doesn'rt work, there shall be more Blowing Up of your stuff until you do get the message.
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
I wish to make a correction to a post of mine earlier when we were talking about Human slaves to the Imperium... I totally forgot about BFG... In their books the ships are operated by a slave labor force... most are criminals or just born into it, but slaves none the less...
At Witxcats: Pantelones Azule, or Blue Pants... but if translated it is pants blue... We must take grammar into context and sense there is no Gammar book for Tau, it is not sertain and either of us could be right... it just depends on how you translate it... your statement has the same credit as mine
@Che-Vito
Your right, they don't seem unhappy... don't get me wrong, for a lot of people, Imperial rule sucks, at it takes a lot to survive, but what does not kill us makes us stronger... Those who defect do so because they were abandoned after the crusade and they would rather live then be killed by the tau...
I wander what O'Shovah would do if the tau sent another Ethereal? would he run from him or would he meet with him and possibly become "Enchanted" by him?
15502
Post by: Reaper.exe
We would when in the assault.
I Agree so FIX BAYONETS!!!
9708
Post by: Orkeosaurus
Your superior intellects are no match for our puny weapons!
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Sanchez01 wrote:Che-Vito wrote:
Wonderful! Now break that cycle of incorrectness!
That is what I have been saying the whole time. People are referring to the generalized form of Communism
Che-Vito wrote:
Wonderful. Now that we have that out of the way, explain how this is insulting. Calling a human, a human...insulting?
When the Tau reference human's, they often shorthand it as "Gue'la" "Gue'ui"...when refering to the race, it is either "Gue'la or Gue'vesa", more commonly the latter.
Gue'la is roughly translated as lowest being. Calling a human lesser to an Infant race that has not, and quite possibly could not survive, the hardships man has. And to call humans lesser is just an insult. Now if they had a name for humans... like the orks call them 'Umies. That would be different. The Humans call the Tau what they call them selves.. and the Tau cannot call humans Humans?
Che-Vito wrote:
Possibly. Again, let's see some quotations here. There have been subtle hints at the kind of control the Ethereals wield over the other Castes, but show me something definitive. While you're at it, please share where you have read that the other Castes are oppressed...I have not reading anything along those lines.
Shas'O O'Shovah... after leaving the Eatherial's presences he was able to do as he wish and defy the Eatherials... something he could not do in their presence
Oh Che-Vicodin or whatever you call your self, don't you see that your biting Sanchez's head off for nothing? You should be mad at the people who keep saying that the Tau are communists. And between you and me I would be pissed if I were called a human auxillery "cannonfodder"
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
penut the butter wrote:
Oh Che-Vicodin or whatever you call your self, don't you see that your biting Sanchez's head off for nothing? You should be mad at the people who keep saying that the Tau are communists. And between you and me I would be pissed if I were called a human auxillery "cannonfodder"
Sanchez was one of those people repeatedly calling them Communists, hence the head-biting-off.
The cannonfodder piece is not fluff, canon, whatever...it is something that someone here on Dakka just said.
And Sanchez and I stopped discussing this topic yesterday...a little late on the uptake, it seems like him and I are done with this one.
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Fine I am sorry I have a job and that I cant chit chat all day.
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
penut the butter wrote:Fine I am sorry I have a job and that I cant chit chat all day.
Eh, understandable. I recently quit my job as an EMT-b to take some time to prepare for paramedic school, which starts on monday.
So, I have a bit of down time at the moment
19005
Post by: penut the butter
You know what, I am sorry that I got worked up over nothing. That was inexcusable.
15667
Post by: Emperors Faithful
...
...
...
...
...Death to the SPACE COMMIE!!!!
16335
Post by: Witzkatz
Emperors Faithful is showing a great quality of mankind there: We are stubborn. 
15667
Post by: Emperors Faithful
lol
19005
Post by: penut the butter
That shall be thier downfall.
15667
Post by: Emperors Faithful
Or our ultimate SALVATION!
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
Hey guy's what if Chaos take's over earth!
Slannesh say's Rock n Roll all day and party every night!
Nurgle...... hmm no so good I'm a Zombie!!!
Tzeench- Not sure, probably not in our benefit .
Khorne, If Hitler won WW2
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Shadowbrand wrote:Hey guy's what if Chaos take's over earth!
Slannesh say's Rock n Roll all day and party every night!
Slaanesh will make you his bitch.
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
There are worse fate's in 40k....
Like getting ripper's in you'r underwear.
15667
Post by: Emperors Faithful
I'm pretty sure Slaanesh would have had something to do with that...
14573
Post by: metallifan
This are a srs diskushun aboot SPEHSS COMMUNISM! Not aboot Chaos! 
I'd resist the Fishcamels even if I'd die. I wouldn't want to be stuck with one job my entire life without any chance to change! What's worse is that my descendants would then have to have the same job as I did. And what if all the women in your line of work were really fat? Then you'd have to marry a fat chick because Caste systems don't allow for people in different fields of employment to fraturnize. Eugh. No dice here.
15667
Post by: Emperors Faithful
lol, that's one way of putting it.
On the other hand, the only other REAL choice is the Imperium.
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
I'm sorry mettalifan
Atleast then i can say "In Soviet Tau Car fork you!"
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Oh pleez. Look at it logically. By the 41st millenium they wuold have perfected lipo. And if they didn't you could finnally have a reason to sing "Baby Got Back"
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
can we at least agree that Tau=badguys?
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
Hmm well. The Imperium is lame, But as Cheese put up from Dark Crusade, we get casterated?!? do you want the Toad people to casterate you?!?!
Now without that, Being Tau Controlled would be ok.
19005
Post by: penut the butter
sanchez you are too hasty. Let them poke fun at possible fat scenarios of the future
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
Have you no shame Chaos scum?!
That means no "fun" and no "Worship" of your god slaanesh. Automatically Appended Next Post: penut the butter wrote:sanchez you are too hasty. Let them poke fun at possible fat scenarios of the future
am not 
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
WHAT!?!! I must take action!
For the Emperor!!...there ya happy now?
Can i go back to lighting up with doomrider?
12620
Post by: Che-Vito
Sanchez01 wrote:can we at least agree that Tau=badguys?
No. "We" would imply those who have posted in this thread agree, and I do not agree with your statement.
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
I just don't wana be casterated! Can i have some sort of deal with my blue overlord's??
And i can always worship Slannesh when they arn't looking.
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Become a "Greater Good" Missionary.
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
Not-serious Shadowbrand That sound's hot.
Serious Shadowbrand
Hmm, would that be hard?
9708
Post by: Orkeosaurus
Shadowbrand wrote:I just don't wana be casterated!
Don't be so selfish!
And i can always worship Slannesh when they arn't looking.
And you're not liable to castrated by them?
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
Well Let's just say when it come's to Mutation Slannesh's "Gift's" are a little on the extreme side.
Need i say more?
9708
Post by: Orkeosaurus
The problem is you start out as a cultist... it's the other guy who's got the 'gifts'.
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Well I would rather have boobies than tzeench's wizard hats that are attached to your head.
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
See? Am i and my Slanneshi friend's really that bad? Automatically Appended Next Post: Yea but I was in the EC so i got special treatment
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
wow, i go and get a beer and a hamburger and you all post up a storm...
well shadow you have an advatage the imps don't... you can pray to get new parts... if they are male or female, idk, but parts none the less
chi-veto,,, we so have to debate that one, but where is the question.
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
Eh it's a mix, but I can relate to Loyalist Traitor's getting bossed around by a dead guy, and you have the Sister's running around, and well let's face it.
Unless your a superhero being "good" is not fun. 
Well at least i can fufill my otaku dream's of being a Gundam pilot with the Tau.
19005
Post by: penut the butter
oh yeah. Wearing tights that squeeze your crotch is real fun.
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
Who said the Imperium is "Good"?
It is a Human Pride parade that killed PETA ages ago... Trillions of Racists with guns hunting non humans and those who do not worship the same god... I love it! These guys are so full of it yet they are the only "good" in the game... that shows how crappy it really is... when super Nazis are the good guys ha ha ha... still at least they aint tau commies jk, jk. but still better then them blue neo-japanese styled xenos.
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
hence "good"
And nothing wrong with tight pant's
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
Who about this... what makes Slaanesh better then the Greater Good?
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Boobies!Boobies!
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
BOOBS!!!!!
Penut is on the Ball
Well if i may go into a little bit of my exact back story Shadow's EC are what they are today only because they fought for what was right in there eye's their primarch and Horus.
But Let's not go Horus Heresy in a Tau thread.
Good and Evil are point's of view Ben Kenobi said it himself.
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
all mammals have those, even eldar *gets cold shiver*
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
Our boob's are better.
8920
Post by: Commissar Molotov
Sanchez01 wrote:all mammals have those, even eldar *gets cold shiver*
Yes, but they call their family jewels "Spirit Stones."
...and they're maybe a half-carat at best!
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
You lost me, we are talking about one of them most awesome things ever, not stones.
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Yay! Boobies!
15180
Post by: ShadowAngel159
before this gets even more insane, let me just point out a couple things.
first, if the tau ruled earth right now, I'm commiting suicide. that, or I'm making a Chaos cult and wiping them out! DEATH TO THE TAU!
second, in 40k, the Imperium is not good. nobody is. every race wants the other race dead, enslaved to their empire, corrupted by chaos, or to live in eternal torture.
and last, you can't say the eldar have "family jewels". I'll believe that when I see them try to rebuild their mighty empire and truly destroy the 'crons and Chaos. so for now, they're all a bunch of pansies w/o anything hanging between their legs
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
See that He'd go Chaos!!!
Death to the false Emperor!
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
well if you are forced to live under tau rule, well yeah, Chaos will get the job done hands down... but what god to worship
i am voting slaanesh
Automatically Appended Next Post:
but me personally? I would worship the emperor still
19005
Post by: penut the butter
This thread has become hilarious!
18981
Post by: Sanchez01
really?
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Yeah.
17930
Post by: JubJubMarine
I would be ok with it if they gave me a dreadnought claw to do "SURPRISE BUTT SHECHS" on.
And i still got to do it with the earth chichs, if not, them water-caste Por-ui/vre girls will do me fine.
If i don't even get that... then i will become the 1-man anti-tau army that kicks butt!!!!
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
A dreadnought you say? sound's exciting.
15667
Post by: Emperors Faithful
Earth under Tau rule would suck. Best case scenario? They are toad-people out to castrate and control you. Worst case scenario? Something akin to Brighthammer 40k...
*shudder*
11892
Post by: Shadowbrand
Well I dunno bout you guy's but i like making babies!!!
I will fight the Blue people to the bitter end.
15667
Post by: Emperors Faithful
Death to the Toad Invader!!!
18471
Post by: Lord-Loss
On a serious note, what about Language?
Would we all have to learn Toad-talk? Would we speak the most popular language? I think its either English or Chiniese.
6838
Post by: 1hadhq
Lord-Loss wrote:On a serious note, what about Language?
Would we all have to learn Toad-talk? Would we speak the most popular language? I think its either English or Chiniese.
Obviously our new "masters" would demand to use only a language they approved/certified/graciously agreed to.
The second, "barbaric" tongue, that may be allowed if no Tau is around, could be something different than english or chinese.
I personally, cant see everyone talking one of both languages now, so why should the Tau not use our disadvantage ?
A new ruler may want to keep the humans separeted and nothing works better than keeping the masses in their hundreds of
spoken languages and dialects. Official buisness would go for sure in "fishy speech"...
19005
Post by: penut the butter
Shadowbrand wrote:Well I dunno bout you guy's but i like making babies!!!
I will fight the Blue people to the bitter end.
No more Toads!
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