Hi There,
Today we have the long awaited release of our latest Imperial Armour book for you, as well as a great new transfer sheet and some events news, but without further ado, onto the new book!

Alan Bligh

Upcoming Events

Imperial Armour Volume Seven, The Siege of Vraks Part Three
Our new Imperial Armour book tells the story of the gripping conclusion to the nightmarish war for the world of Vraks. Lavishly illustrated in full colour with technical drawings and artwork. This 220 page hardback book features extensive new background text, rules and information on numerous war engines for both the forces of the Imperium and Chaos, as well as Apocalypse Battle Formations, and two new army lists.

Preview: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/iav-7.htm

You can see some previews and page spreads of the book: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/iav-7a.htm

Interactive page spreads: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/iav-7flip.htm

The story of the book details the final climatic struggle to decide the fate of Vraks; as the forces of the feared Inquisitor Hector Rex and the Grey Knights add their weight to the battle in a desperate attempt to stem a rising tide of Daemons and the restless dead. Dark entities are summoned by the ceaseless bloodshed from the depths of the Warp to aid the forces of Chaos, and the hellish plans of their leader Lord Zhufor, master of the Skulltakers.

The book contains detailed background descriptions and rules for many vehicles and units including the Greater Brass Scorpion, Blight Drones, Blood Slaughterer, Chaos Reaver Titan, the Minotaur and the Valdor Tank Hunter, as well as characters and unique creatures and daemons such as Inquisitor Hector Rex, Lord Zhufor, Necrosius, Mammon, the Gorefeaster and others. It also contains two complete variant army lists; the Servants of Decay and the Krieg Armoured Battlegroup and eight new Apocalypse battle formations such as the Venatarii Titan Maniple and The Purge. It features colour scheme illustrations for numerous Chaos Warbands, the Grey Knights, Angels of Absolution and Red Hunter Space Marine Chapters as well as various war machines used in the epic conflict.

The book also comes supplied with a double sided (size) poster which you can see Here: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/iav7poster.htm

The first 500 copies sold of Imperial Armour Volume Seven, The Siege of Vraks Part Three will be signed by the book’s principle writer, Warwick Kinrade.

The first print run of the book will come with a great free slipcase (which fits all three volumes of the Vraks series.)

Siege of Vraks Imperial Space Marine Transfer Sheet: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/vraksdecs.htm

Siege of Vraks Special Offer
If you`ve not yet bought the previous books telling the story of the terrifying war for Vraks, we are also offering a special bundle of all three volumes of the Siege of Vraks together (Imperial Armours Five, Six and Seven) in the new slip case. This offer includes free Express shipping to anywhere in the world for this bundle item only for the total price of £130.





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TABLE OF CONTENTS

Introduction 4

Section 1 – The Siege of Vraks

Chapter 12 The Conclave of Scarus 6
Chapter 13 Closing the Ring 9
Sorceror of Nurgle
14
Chapter 14 The Daemons Set Loose 26
Chapter 15 The Hill of Perdition 40
Titan Princeps
48
Grey Knights Space Marine 54
Chapter 16 Where Daemons Tread 61
Khorne Terminator Champion 66
Chapter 17 Expulsion of the Heretics 76

Section 2– Forces of the Imperium

Grey Knights Terminator Squad 98
Grey Knights Squad 101
Red Hunters Terminator Squad 104
Red Hunters Tactical Squad 106
Red Hunters Tactical Squad 108
Kreig 261st Siege Regiment 110
Grey Knights Land Raider Redeemer 112
Minotaur 115
Valdor Tank Hunter 119
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lord
122
Inquisitor Lord Hector Rex 124
Kreig Armoured Battlegroup Army List 125

Section 3 - Forces of Chaos

Chaos Space Marine Warbands 138
Necrosius 143
Defiler 144
Brass Scorpion of Khorne 147
Blight Drones 151
Blood Slaughterer 154
Gorefeaster 157
Jibberjaw 159
Chaos Reaver Titan 161
An'ggrath The Unbound 164
Scabeiathrax the Bloated 166
Uraka Az'baramael 168
Mamon 170
Renegades and Traitors 172
Zhufor the Impaler 174
Renegades and Heretics Army List 175
Plague Marine 182

Section 4 - Scenarios

Historical Refight Scenarios 190
The Siege of Vraks multi-player campaign system 201

Section 5 - Appendices

Appendix I: Apocalypse Battle Formations 206
Appendix II: Super-Heavy Vehicles 214
Appendix III: Flyers 216
Appendix IV: Special Rules 218

Quite intrigued. Even enough so to perhaps get the collection of all 3.

On the plus side, the heretics get a third armylist, which will probably be slightly better suited for 5E than the previous two. On the minus side, the Minotaur and Valdor are certain to each be 100-120 points overcosted.

Just pre-ordered mine! Can't wait.

Preordered!

How much fluff is in these things guys? I might just be interested in the 3-pack, however, 130 is quite a bit of dough really.

The Imperium better not lose again, like they did in all the other books so far




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Flachzange wrote:How much fluff is in these things guys? I might just be interested in the 3-pack, however, 130 is quite a bit of dough really.

A lot. I think Vraks 1 has at least 35 pages telling the background story, and these books truly are packed with every single piece of information about the vehicles, weapons, regiments, uniforms, etc etc. They also have coloured illustrations of basically every single vehicle, uniforms, regiment formations etc, and a lot of "photos", which are the miniatures in pictures that actually look like realistic photos. Everything is very detailed and the illustrations are top quality.

And the rules for everything of course.

I have all of them except Vraks 2 downloaded, but I will definitely start buying the real books in the near future. They are expensive but definitely worth the money Imo.

Finally! This rocks for two reasons:

1. Imperial Armour books are awesome, even with all the mistakes and silly copypasta nonsense.
2. The Siege of Vraks is over and we can finally move onto something more interesting.

Once September hits I'll be ordering this alongside the Khornate Daemon Prince, and a few loyalist Dreads.

H.B.M.C. wrote:2. The Siege of Vraks is over and we can finally move onto something more interesting.

You mean Orks v. Elysians? Here's to hoping the rumors concerning the first part(I'd heard it covers 2 book, not sure how reliable that is, though) containing Orks attacking Ad Mech before the Guard show up is true.

TBD wrote:

I have all of them except Vraks 2 downloaded, but I will definitely start buying the real books in the near future. They are expensive but definitely worth the money Imo.

That's not cool.

TBD wrote:The Imperium better not lose again, like they did in all the other books so far .

Considering the last chapter is called 'Expulsion of the Heretics' I have a good feeling about the imperium winning... Or they'll just blow the whole planet up!

I'm really interested to see what some of these chaos units are that I've never heard of, like Jibberjaw, and Uraka Az'baramael (i'm hoping this is the big Lord of Change), Gorefeaster (gotta be the khorne deamon prince). And it's nice to see updates fro an'ggrath and papa Ga'ap's rules (maybe they actually gave him FNP like every other nurgle big'un).

Also, saw in one of the pictures, there's a plague marine holding a heavy bolder (i think). When did they learn to use heavy weapons?

Anyone got an eta on the big lord of change btw?

There's quite a bit of fluff in those books- the first part is dedicated to it.

Reading it makes me feel like I'm listening to a WW2 history report. It's really well written.


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Alpharius wrote:

TBD wrote:

I have all of them except Vraks 2 downloaded, but I will definitely start buying the real books in the near future. They are expensive but definitely worth the money Imo.

That's not cool.

Agreed. Downloading w/o paying = stealing. Not cool at all. I really don't like the attitude of, "I want it but don't have the money for it = I'll steal it." If you can't afford it you can't afford it. End of story.

And yes they're worth the money.

Piracy, not stealing. Stealing implies you've taken something and that they no longer have that something. This is copying, which is piracy. But let's not get into that here.

Buy the books! They're worth it, and they're really good when you get into an argument because they're so heavy!!!

Platuan4th wrote:You mean Orks v. Elysians? Here's to hoping the rumors concerning the first part(I'd heard it covers 2 book, not sure how reliable that is, though) containing Orks attacking Ad Mech before the Guard show up is true.

Man I hope so. I'm at the point where anything other than Vraks will do, but Orks/Elysians means that Orks are finally getting a look in and we'll see updated rules for all their stuff. Then once those two books are over maybe we can finally get an Eldar book going.

I've got a hunch that the Eldar might be cropping up in the Orks v. Elysian book as "advisors" to the Orks.

Frickin' pointyears nudging the greenskins the Imperium's way

skullking wrote:
I'm really interested to see what some of these chaos units are that I've never heard of, like Jibberjaw, and Uraka Az'baramael (i'm hoping this is the big Lord of Change), Gorefeaster (gotta be the khorne deamon prince). And it's nice to see updates fro an'ggrath and papa Ga'ap's rules (maybe they actually gave him FNP like every other nurgle big'un).

According to people on Warseer who have seen the book, Uraka is the Khorne DP and Gorefeaster is the Khorne Herald.

Kanluwen wrote:I've got a hunch that the Eldar might be cropping up in the Orks v. Elysian book as "advisors" to the Orks.

That'll do to be honest. Personally I was hoping for a two-part series that started with Imperium vs Eldar, and then in the second book the Orks show up and the Imperium/Eldar has to put their war on hold to fight the common enemy.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I've got a hunch that the Eldar might be cropping up in the Orks v. Elysian book as "advisors" to the Orks.

That'll do to be honest. Personally I was hoping for a two-part series that started with Imperium vs Eldar, and then in the second book the Orks show up and the Imperium/Eldar has to put their war on hold to fight the common enemy.

It really could go either way.

Eldar are pretty much the Commies of the 40k universe

They can be behind anything/everything bad.

Preordered

I am so getting that, probably at the end of the month. The three books and the smaller demon engine will do me for now. I have been wanting to read those books for a while. Looking forward to their later books so long as they can keep away from TAU.

IA 8 will feature the Red Suns, Blood Axes and another major Ork clan, IA 9 will feature the other three.

Tacobake wrote:I am so getting that, probably at the end of the month. The three books and the smaller demon engine will do me for now. I have been wanting to read those books for a while. Looking forward to their later books so long as they can keep away from TAU.

I think they should do more Tau books. Every book after IA7 should feature Tau in some way, and we should get a constant stream of new models to go with it.

"Let the hate flow through you..."

I see the BoLS is stating that the book is out NOW and well, from what I gather from their post you get the slipcase with it regardless of production number.

fething tau. I will admit it would be fun for their GW codex to get another look but I do not think they really need anything new from Forgeworld. Just save up for the Manta XD.

They get that Markerlight Crisis suit guy, what more can you ask for.

...what?

The Taros campaign book was, imo, one of the better ones.
Personally, I think they could have done MORE for the Tau in regards to IA.

The Tau, Tyranids, and Orks are some of the best races to match against the Guard--and the scenarios from Taros and Anphelion show it. They're fairly balanced against the Guard, and you can easily scale it to better suit Guard v. whomever.

They should stay away from Marine viewpoints, they're just not...interesting.

Looking at the table of contents, i am slightly disappointed that they don't go into the Grey Knights all that much, but i will take what I can get for them. The GK's need some more support in a bad way.

Kanluwen wrote:The Taros campaign book was, imo, one of the better ones.

And also the heaviest. Really good for arguments that one.

The book was nice, except that it was nothing but Tau fanwank from the word go. The final straw in the book for me was when the four Titans - something most Tau consider to be Imperial propaganda - are attacked by the special Tigershark (the Deus Ex Machina-Pattern Tiger Shark) which tears them a new one and the rest run away.

WTF????

Well I never said GW was all that good at writing about them, just that they should write about them more.

fething tau. I will admit it would be fun for their GW codex to get another look but I do not think they really need anything new from Forgeworld. Just save up for the Manta XD.

They get that Markerlight Crisis suit guy, what more can you ask for.

I don't think Imperial Guard or Space Marines need anything new from Forge World, either, but we don't always get what we want do we? fething IG really don't need anything more, how many different fething Leman Russ variants or superheavies do you really need? It won't be long before FW has to start pulling stuff out of its ass just to keep pumping out IG tanks.

"Buy the new Banebloodhammertaur Extermivanquishinator today!"

In either case, every race could always use more models. When every race has as many different models and variants to choose from as the Space Marines do, then you can stop and work on the next Stormbladehammer Demolexecutionator variant.

Anyway, I admit, maybe GW could get a little more creative with their Tau writing, something besides "Tau face overwhelming odds, pwn face as usual." But honestly GW have kinda written themselves into a corner with Tau fluff to begin with. Realistically the Tau can't suffer any major loss, since a loss for them would be too devastating. Of course the Imperium loses all the time, a world here or there doesn't matter when there are a million more. But if the Tau lost a sept world or two it would pretty much be "Game Over". Which I'm sure a lot of fucksticks would absolutely love, but nevertheless...

I'd like to see how the Tau deal with Chaos worship spreading through a gue'vesa colony, or a possible genestealer cult even. They're the only race in the game that welcomes alien species into its Empire, but besides a few alien units in the army list (one of them decent, the other useless) they don't really focus on that aspect all that often. No doubt we'll be getting a bigger fluff section with the next book, I'm curious to read more about race relations in the Empire.

They should stay away from Marine viewpoints, they're just not...interesting.

No, they really aren't. If they're going to insist on forcing more and more Imperial crap down my throat then I want to see what the Tau-haters are all clamoring for: major losses. Stuff that actually counts, not just "Nameless world is destroyed, billions die, but there are thousands of other ones like it so the Imperium won't really feel the loss anyhow." Make something interesting happen. Kill off an entire Chapter of Marines, for instance. Have the Dragon wake up and destroy Mars or something.

The Imperium is included in all books for multiple reasons. Number one is the title of the books, the second being that humans are easier to identify with than a pointy-eared prick or a neo-space commie and finally there's the whole thing that FW is Imperial from the start.

IA 3 was a fun read, very biased however and very poorly written, you know what I'm talking about.

Thank Gork n Mork that's over with... now, onto the ORK vs tiny droptroop umies goodness...

I hear it's gonna be clan based, now GIMME my blood axe Kommissarz!!

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Thank Gork n Mork that's over with... now, onto the ORK vs tiny droptroop umies goodness...

I hear it's gonna be clan based, now GIMME my blood axe Kommissarz!!

No doubt!

As has already been noted, I love them Space Marines, but I also would love to get FW making some clan specific Ork stuff!

Especially Blood Axes and Bad Moons!

(Not to mention some Eldar toys too.)

I'm thinking conversion kits for Stompas. It's just crying out for that.

There is a lot about Grey Knights? Should I get my hopes up that there may be a sweet resin Grey Knight model released?

Majesticgoat wrote:There is a lot about Grey Knights? Should I get my hopes up that there may be a sweet resin Grey Knight model released?

No. They released "upgrade" kits for the Land Raider, Rhino, Dreadnaught, and Thunderhawk. They also have some resin Inquisitors and servitors. The closest thing they have to a Grey Knight model is the driver "upgrade" for the Land Raider/Rhino.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/QUATERMASTERS_STORE_DAEMONHUNTERS_AND_ORDO_XENOS_32.html

Moopy wrote:Agreed. Downloading w/o paying = stealing. Not cool at all. I really don't like the attitude of, "I want it but don't have the money for it = I'll steal it." If you can't afford it you can't afford it. End of story.

First of all: as of right now downloading from the internet is not illegal in my country (with the exception of games and software) as long as the copy you make is for your own personal use, and this is regardless of the (possibly illegal) source.

So no, legally I am not doing anything wrong at all.

Uploading is illegal btw.

Second, the ethical side of it: when I am interested in a product and downloading is the only/easiest way of knowing whether or not it is worth the price they are asking then that is the way to go as far as I'm concerned.

It doesn't necessarily have to do with the ability to afford either. That is a rather ignorant misconception. It has to do with being willing to spend a certain amount of money on a certain product.

The time that I bought CD's, DVD's etc without knowing whether I would like them, only to find out that they were nowhere near worth their price, is long past. Imo the music business and the movie business brought the scale of downloading that is happening these days upon themselves. As long as they keep stubbornly overpricing their products + trying to stop downloading instead of meeting consumers with more realistic prices to give those consumers better alternatives, then they can stick it. I think the music business has been doing a better job at it lately, but the DVD business not so much.

If I download something and I think the product is worth it's asking price then I will eventually buy the real thing most of the time. I do that with music, I do that with movies, and the same goes for things like Forge World books.

I'm not blindly buying something that I suspect might be overpriced, so without the download I would not have known and they would never have gotten my money. Likewise, if I don't like the product they wouldn't have gotten my money anyway.

And if someone is truly unable to afford something they would never have gotten that money either, so how do they lose anything by it? If an actual physical product would be taken away in a store it is a completely different story.

The bottom line is: my downloading actually benifits them and it benifits me as well by not letting myself get ripped off.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The book was nice, except that it was nothing but Tau fanwank from the word go. The final straw in the book for me was when the four Titans - something most Tau consider to be Imperial propaganda - are attacked by the special Tigershark (the Deus Ex Machina-Pattern Tiger Shark) which tears them a new one and the rest run away.

WTF????

Keep in mind that one of the main themes in IA3 was the systemic ineptitude that permeates the Empire. On Taros, the Empire basically stacked the deck against itself and it showed in how things played out behind the scenes as much as the poor leadership on the ground. The Tau were committed to taking and holding Taros. The Empire... had better things to do, I guess, similar to the US involvement in Viet Nam.

One thing that IA3 brought home for me was the fact that Space Marine chapters are really impossibly small to be effective in any sort of warfighting at all. This is partially due to a disparity between the rules of the game (40k) and the fluff (man-gods, each an army unto himself) which cannot really be reconciled on the tabletop. The Avenging Sons Space Marines sent to Taros in the beginning got spanked like a bunch of S&M hookers in schoolgirl uniforms and had to run with their tails between their legs - nearly an entire company lost. Now compare that to one company of Ultramarines basically killing an entire Tyranid hive fleet at Macragge and you begin to see the disparity.

Well now i know why my friend is starting a drop troop army now of all times
also i would like to see different orks than just Teef and Chopas

yeah,
Placed my order.
Can't Wait!

Panic...

I know it's too much to hope for but I would like to see some of the old IA units "updated" to the new guard codex for non-appocolypse use. At the minimum I'd like to see squadron rules for some of the IA variants of the Russ and the re-points costed varient of the chimera with all of the turret options that we've already seen in the Inquisition "update" be listed as a transport option of the guard (I want my AC back ).

Thing about Grey Knights their models are already great. They could use a variant Grey Knight Terminator model just because they are already so cool anyway. Say a squad of five that comes with the Brother Captain and full weapon options including Thunder Hammer/ Storm Shield.

I've got no problems with the GK models. I am currently working through painting an army for them now. I do with they had plastics or a few more poses. The same three guys to fill out their basic squads gets a little repettive. I am finding myself adding bits like purity seals, tabards and scrolls just to break the appearence up. Next, I think I am also going to get some of the muzzle flash packs, just to try and make guys more different. I was just hoping for a little more from FW for them.

The varients for the razorback and raider are nice and all. I was kind of hoping though for at least a FW army list though to try and make them a little more 5th ed compatable. maybe also a couple of characters to give them some commanders. Just something troop wise from FW to get some new faces in the army.

TBD wrote:

First of all: ....

People seem to go to great lengths to justify immoral activities. Whatever.

Morals are subjective.

Laws aren't.

Moopy wrote:People seem to go to great lengths to justify immoral activities. Whatever.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it's nothing more or less than that: your personal opinion.

Moopy wrote:

TBD wrote:

First of all: ....

People seem to go to great lengths to justify immoral activities. Whatever.

Oh, so now it's about morality. Before it was about the law, but when he pointed out that it wasn't illegal in his country, that downloading is obviously not considered stealing there, it turns into "Shut up, it's still wrong, you're scum!"

"Whatever."

I also think he had a good point, I much prefer the "try before you buy" technique since, like him, I don't like getting fethed over. I'd like to preview an album before I spend my hard-earned cash on it, I'd like to see what a book is like before I buy it and commit to reading it, and I like to test-drive a car before I sell my soul to the devil and bleed cash for years to come. In music's case there are ways to do that without resorting to downloading the material, bands often have MySpace pages where they preview songs and stuff, but more often than not they play the singles and then you're left wondering if that was the best they had to offer or if the entire album is actually worth the money (how many times have you bought an album after hearing one or two songs, and then been disappointed to find the rest is filler?). What in the feth is wrong with wanting to know what it is you're buying, how is that "immoral"? In my opinion that's just common sense, which admittedly seems to be going out of style, but nevertheless...

Like TBD said, you're entitled to your opinion, but I'm offended by the fact that you clearly didn't even read his post, either that or you did and just blew it off entirely without thinking twice about it, refusing to look at things from another perspective and just reaffirming everyone that you are indeed "right" and he is "wrong".

SO besides arguing the legality of downloading in other countries you're all saying that I should buy these.

Now which get Vraks 3 for the nifty extras and pick up the rest later, or buy the set and not get the extras?

Buy the set. You don't need the posters.

Still a hefty price... 130 quid is quite a chunk for three books. Very tempting though. Im a fluff whore :(

I own every IA book. They're worth it, believe me, and that's even after I acknowledge that A). They're full of mistakes and B). Warwick is a copypasta whore who wouldn't know a good rule if it came up and bit him in the face.

The triple book set comes with the posters. You save five pounds. Pretty good deal, really. Shame they did not do some kind of a reprint although I suppose it is just as well.

Sidstyler wrote:

Moopy wrote:

TBD wrote:

First of all: ....

People seem to go to great lengths to justify immoral activities. Whatever.

Oh, so now it's about morality. Before it was about the law, but when he pointed out that it wasn't illegal in his country, that downloading is obviously not considered stealing there, it turns into "Shut up, it's still wrong, you're scum!"

Yea, I did. He admitted that uploading copies of books was illegal. So he chose to take advantage of something that was HE KNEW was done illegally. I'll call that pretty morally wretched.

Glad you pointed that out.

As for that "try-before-you-buy" argument- that's a self justifying excuse to do something they don't let you do. You can't justify the issue (in this case downloading and illegally uploaded book) because you somehow feel entitled to do it. All the other things you mentioned: music, cars etc... have options to try out, but in this case, the book doesn't, so you'll have to find a place that has it and ask to see it. Just because it isn't the most convenient way of doing things it doesn't give you cart blanche to do whatever you want. That all important sense self entitlement is nothing more than immaturity.

If you don't like the way a system works, work with the publishers to get what you want. Ask for them to create something like a downloadable pdf that contains a section of the book. Have your friends write them for the same thing- tell the manufacture what you want. But don't do things just because you somehow have convinced yourself that it's ok to do so.

FETH morality, take it to the OT forum if it is such a hot topic up for discussion.

I've just placed my pre-order, so here goes nothing.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Buy the set. You don't need the posters.

Will do then, thanks HBMC.

The good thing is now after you've finished reading the second book you can move right onto the third. The reason that's important is that the second book is like many part 2's in a trilogy - no real beginning and no real end. That and the book served as a giant hard-cover advertisement for the new Reaver Titan kit. Waiting a year for Part 2 only to find that I had to wait another year to get the actual conclusion wasn't all that fun, and while the Red Scorpion stuff in part 2 is good, it wasn't worth a year wait.

But you won't have that problem. Treat the three books as a single giant book and it'll work better.

yeah,
Half the point of FW not openly allowing downloads of the book is that once you've read the fluff, half the reason/point in buying the book is gone. All that's left is data sheets, most of which you'll never use.

When your in GW stores the FW books are sealed to prevent browsing. These books are a luxury item, it's not something your entitled to. If you want to find out, take a punt and find out if imperial armour is for you... Worst case if you hate them you can sell it on ebay and get 70% of your money back!

Panic...

H.B.M.C. wrote:The good thing is now after you've finished reading the second book you can move right onto the third. The reason that's important is that the second book is like many part 2's in a trilogy - no real beginning and no real end. That and the book served as a giant hard-cover advertisement for the new Reaver Titan kit. Waiting a year for Part 2 only to find that I had to wait another year to get the actual conclusion wasn't all that fun, and while the Red Scorpion stuff in part 2 is good, it wasn't worth a year wait.

But you won't have that problem. Treat the three books as a single giant book and it'll work better.

True, I won't, I'll just have my Debt Card trying to slice my throat. So are any of the Chaos things in the Books actually good to use? Do they have rules that make slightly more sense than the Renegade Marine Dex?

Panic wrote:yeah,
Half the point of FW not openly allowing downloads of the book is that once you've read the fluff, half the reason/point in buying the book is gone. All that's left is data sheets, most of which you'll never use.

When your in GW stores the FW books are sealed to prevent browsing. These books are a luxury item, it's not something your entitled to. If you want to find out, take a punt and find out if imperial armour is for you... Worst case if you hate them you can sell it on ebay and get 70% of your money back!

Panic...

That is very true.

BrotherStynier wrote:True, I won't, I'll just have my Debt Card trying to slice my throat.

Over three books? Nah! Buy all of them in one go, that's my suggestion. The Anphelion Project is a great book.

BrotherStynier wrote:So are any of the Chaos things in the Books actually good to use? Do they have rules that make slightly more sense than the Renegade Marine Dex?

Well, look, they're Forge World books. As long as you accept the fact that Warwick is incapable of writing a decent set of rules you'll be fine. Without a doubt 80% of the units will be overpriced/underpowered, 10% will be underpriced/overpowered and the remaining 10% will be useful and viable choices in any army. For every Cyclops Demo Vehicle or Heavy Mortar Battery there's a slew of Malcadors, Machariuses, Leman Russ Conquerors, Ogryn Berzerkers and Bombards.

Panic wrote:When your in GW stores the FW books are sealed to prevent browsing.

They're sealed when you get them shipped to you as well, but I get what you're saying.

Oh I can already feel the slicing if I buy more than just the box set right now.

So with a little bit of doctoring the rules will work fine, my group enjoys making units actually worth the price, or upping the price if it needs it. Sometimes...

BrotherStynier wrote:

True, I won't, I'll just have my Debt Card trying to slice my throat. So are any of the Chaos things in the Books actually good to use? Do they have rules that make slightly more sense than the Renegade Marine Dex?

I thought that the Chaos lists were about on par with the LaTD mini dex that came out a few years ago. There are always a few units that aren't worth taking because the abilities don't match the cost.

The armies definitely fit the stories, but might not always work well in the 40k system. DKK may look great, but a mass IG infantry charge in a world of bugs and orks= Lots of port mortem medals handed out. On the other hand the artillery aspect is very nice. The armies in the books are best suited for fighting the other armies in the same book; the chaos list vs the Krieg list. I've played a few games with my friends and that's been pretty fun.

BrotherStynier wrote:So with a little bit of doctoring the rules will work fine, my group enjoys making units actually worth the price, or upping the price if it needs it. Sometimes...

Easily. Some things you can't really solve (I can't think of a way to make the Conqueror useful using the current Russ archetype in the IG Codex), but a lot of them come down to points values (make the Macharius the same cost as a Land Raider and its instantly viable).

If you do end up getting Cyclops Demo Vehicles, I suggest making them T4(5) W2 Sv3+ rather than AV10 vehicles. Why? They're about the same size as Epic Land Raiders, yet they're vehicles, meaning they can't hide behind infantry... which is silly for something so small. Also make them not worth any KP's. It's absurd (the Adepticon FAQ did this I believe) to make them worth 1 KP when they explode.

Which brings up another point, only this new IA and the one before it were written with 5th Ed in mind, and while the first two have got FAQ updates (wierdly, FW has better FAQ support than GW), they weren't written for the current ruleset, so you'd probably have to do some tweaking anyway.

And don't buy Imperial Armour Apocalypse. It's a shocking book filled with more than the usual amount of mistakes. The Krieg Deathrider formation has no special rules, yet you pay extra points for it - one of the more egregious examples of Warwick's copypasta-disastas. There's a Marine formation that gives the Marine army Flank March and all you have to do is buy a TechMarine + 3 Dreads (and pay 50 points). The formation doesn't have Flank March (as you'd expect it to say were it written by someone who proofreads their work), the formation gives the Marine player Flank March, for his whole army, so he doesn't even have to pick it as one of his choices. Amazing...

Moopy wrote:

BrotherStynier wrote:

True, I won't, I'll just have my Debt Card trying to slice my throat. So are any of the Chaos things in the Books actually good to use? Do they have rules that make slightly more sense than the Renegade Marine Dex?

I thought that the Chaos lists were about on par with the LaTD mini dex that came out a few years ago. There are always a few units that aren't worth taking because the abilities don't match the cost.

The armies definitely fit the stories, but might not always work well in the 40k system. DKK may look great, but a mass IG infantry charge in a world of bugs and orks= Lots of port mortem medals handed out. On the other hand the artillery aspect is very nice. The armies in the books are best suited for fighting the other armies in the same book; the chaos list vs the Krieg list. I've played a few games with my friends and that's been pretty fun.

So when using the armies use them against other forge world armies for best effect.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

BrotherStynier wrote:So with a little bit of doctoring the rules will work fine, my group enjoys making units actually worth the price, or upping the price if it needs it. Sometimes...

Easily. Some things you can't really solve (I can't think of a way to make the Conqueror useful using the current Russ archetype in the IG Codex), but a lot of them come down to points values (make the Macharius the same cost as a Land Raider and its instantly viable).

That's the one that was able to move and shoot?

If you do end up getting Cyclops Demo Vehicles, I suggest making them T4(5) W2 Sv3+ rather than AV10 vehicles. Why? They're about the same size as Epic Land Raiders, yet they're vehicles, meaning they can't hide behind infantry... which is silly for something so small. Also make them not worth any KP's. It's absurd (the Adepticon FAQ did this I believe) to make them worth 1 KP when they explode.

I'll keep that in mind.

Which brings up another point, only this new IA and the one before it were written with 5th Ed in mind, and while the first two have got FAQ updates (wierdly, FW has better FAQ support than GW), they weren't written for the current ruleset, so you'd probably have to do some tweaking anyway.

Okay.

And don't buy Imperial Armour Apocalypse. It's a shocking book filled with more than the usual amount of mistakes. The Krieg Deathrider formation has no special rules, yet you pay extra points for it - one of the more egregious examples of Warwick's copypasta-disastas. There's a Marine formation that gives the Marine army Flank March and all you have to do is buy a TechMarine + 3 Dreads (and pay 50 points). The formation doesn't have Flank March (as you'd expect it to say were it written by someone who proofreads their work), the formation gives the Marine player Flank March, for his whole army, so he doesn't even have to pick it as one of his choices. Amazing...

That sounds ridiculous.

I don't feel that this is worth starting a new thread over. Take action if you must, but do we really need another "great debate" thread? This should be the end of it anyway...

I'll call that pretty morally wretched.

You have a pretty strange definition of the word "morality", then, when you consider a man who has broken no law to be "morally wretched".

Uploading in his country is against the law. Downloading isn't, and unless he also admitted to uploading content, he's done nothing wrong. At least nothing I would consider "morally wretched" behavior. You know what I call "morally wretched"? Rape. Murder. Exploitation. Human trafficking. Not legally downloading a .pdf of a book about toy soldiers, a book that he's apparently going to end up buying anyway since he's decided it's worth the money from downloading it and checking out its content, not by staring at the pretty cover and clicking "add to cart" like GW apparently wants you to.

Not only that, but I would argue that just blindly following laws does not make you more "moral" than anyone else, and depending on the extent you go to, might even make you a little bit silly. Ever been to dumblaws.com? Look up your state and tell me if you've broken any of them. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that...

Anyway, I'd love for GW to start giving us free .pdf previews of their new books, maybe 10-15 pages, to get us hyped up over them (having never been allowed to browse through an IA book before I'd really like to see why the hell they cost so damn much). I'd love to see new models and books coming out months in advance, instead of seeing everything a mere few weeks before release and being kept in the dark. But if you honestly believe any amount of hand-written letters are going to get them to do all that, you're out of your mind (or just plain naive). I can't think of a more pointless waste of time than that, one person trying to change the business strategies of one of the most stubborn companies on the planet.

Finally, I'm "immature" because I believe I have certain rights as a consumer? Explain that one to me. Who is more immature, the guy who wants to browse through a book before he shells out $100+ for it, or the publisher that keeps it sealed in plastic hoping that you'll buy it on impulse, not caring about your satisfaction after the fact? Personally I think I'm just using common sense. That's a hell of a lot of money to drop on a product when I honestly have no clue what I'm getting, and if you're telling me my only option in that case is to just not buy, I guess I'll continue to not buy then, but it's GW's loss not mine.

Well, here's hoping that the Krieg armoured company is of some use. Otherwise I'll have a nice background book with hopefully a good ending, regardless of the outcome. IA 6 was okay, at least it had the rules for the Krieg engineers and the Hades assault drill. Not that super useful but I love them nonetheless.

Man... the amount of argumentative fallacies and other blather spouted out by those that find they have have to justify their actions is... amazing. This goes to show how self absorbed people get when they feel they can to do whatever they damn well please because they feel they have some magical right to do it. Consumer rights?? Ok, google search that topic and show me where it says you have a RIGHT to download illegally uploaded material. Come on, let see it. Sure, there's nothing wrong with WANTING to see what in the book. What wrong is the way it's done. Boo hoo that something isn't as easy as you would like it to be.

With that same logic you could also find:

Poacher kills an endangered animal in his country, carts it across the boarder and then sells it to buyer. Buyer can legally buy it in his country. Is buyer absolved of morality issues involved in the extinction of species just because it's legal to buy? Hell no. Blood Diamonds anyone? Same category, just a little more extreme, but you get the picture. Just because you have the option to do it, does not absolve you of the bigger picture (morality)

Yes, I do write to businesses, usually via e-mail but sometimes via snail mail. GW was one of them (See the Blood Angels thread). YES I get responses. That craptastic attitude of, "Oh nothing matters so I won't bother to do anything except ridicule those that do something useful" really become self fulfilling now doesn't it?

Back on topic.

I have a feeling that even though the Imperials will "win". Large amount of Vraks is going to be inhospitable thanks to the Nurgle followers, and the vast majority of supplies, weapons, stockpiles will have been compromised, used up, or destroyed. Whatever fortress this was, it will no longer be viable for years to come.

As for what the new book will put out? So far:
Chaos: Chaos titan(?), Brass Scorpion, Nurble Blight Drones, Nurgle Sorcerer (named character?)
Imperial: New Inquisitor, Minotaur, more I'm forgetting.

In all likeliness the world will be given Exterminatus in the end along with all the men of the 88th Siege army. The final paragraph will most likely drone on about how this is the Imperium at work and that winning the war was just to show those Chaos dopes that the Emperor would not stand for it, regardless of the cost or if anything at all could be salvaged in the end.

They already did exterminatus in IA4, didn't they? Would they really repeat themselves so soon?

I think we know the Imperium is going to win this one after all the sacrifices they've made means they deserve it. Otherwise I want to see Rex do something heroic at the end. I don't know why but I've just got this image of him in my head dueling a Bloodthirster as Imperial forces purge the city.

Breotan wrote:Would they really repeat themselves so soon?

It's Warwick - The Copypasta Masta. If he can copy something from somewhere else, he will.

Heroic? feth THAT gak. Let it go unnoticed, like the rest of the exploits of the 88th Siege Army. Ten to one everybody but the GK's die or get nuked from orbit because of a taint.

Sidstyler wrote:You have a pretty strange definition of the word "morality", then.

Thank you for trying to make him understand, but I don't think there is any use arguing with people who are so full of their own presumed righteousness that they stubbornly counter valid arguments with their personal opinion like that opinion is the only truth, or conveniently disregard some of your arguments to which they know they don't have an adequate response.

Let me just say that the ones who are the most vocal about morality often are the biggest hypocrites when you put their lives under a microscope. But we obviously don't know, so I'm certainly not saying that this applies here.

Maybe he lives the life of a saint. Who knows?








and maybe we will all go to hell for masturbating as well

TBD wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:You have a pretty strange definition of the word "morality", then.

Thank you for trying to make him understand, but I don't think there is any use arguing with people who are so full of their own presumed righteousness that they stubbornly counter valid arguments with their personal opinion like that opinion is the only truth, or conveniently disregard some of your arguments to which they know they don't have an adequate response.

Let me just say that the ones who are the most vocal about morality often are the biggest hypocrites when you put their lives under a microscope. But we obviously don't know, so I'm certainly not saying that this applies here.

Maybe he lives the life of a saint. Who knows?








and maybe we will all go to hell for masturbating as well

Maybe not?

Lets try to steer this back on topic now.

Aw geez Alpha - quoting an entire huge post for one line? What a troll...

H.B.M.C. wrote:

(the Deus Ex Machina-Pattern Tiger Shark)

I believe the technical term is 'lol'

Does it *really* matter if someone pirates a book? Seriously.. its a book

Are they wrong? Yes? no? it doesnt really matter

This isnt morality court.. Im sure every single person here who is calling people immoral for pirating.. a BOOK also do stuff in their lives that arent perfect

Move on.. lets talk about vraks

Kirasu wrote:Does it *really* matter if someone pirates a book? Seriously.. its a book

Are they wrong? Yes? no? it doesnt really matter

This isnt morality court.. Im sure every single person here who is calling people immoral for pirating.. a BOOK also do stuff in their lives that arent perfect

Move on.. lets talk about vraks

Hey, this is Dakka, we'll have none of that common sense here mister.

Kirasu wrote:Does it *really* matter if someone pirates a book? Seriously.. its a book

And it's someone's intellectual property. If you produce any IP (software developer for example) would you want somone attining it without you being compensated? I know I wouldn't.

TBD wrote:
Let me just say that the ones who are the most vocal about morality often are the biggest hypocrites when you put their lives under a microscope. But we obviously don't know, so I'm certainly not saying that this applies here.

Your Ad Hominem attack won't make you right. You really need to learn how to form an argument that isn't based on personal attacks.

I'll say this and be done with it. I work in the video game business, and when retards think they have the right to prirate whatever they want, it ends up hurting people like me.

Case in point: A long time ago I was working on Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb. 2 days after we took the gold master disk to the disk producer, we found it was on a shareware site. No bonuses were given out, no nothing because people were freaked out that sales were going to be bad. Never mind the crunch time, the traveling, etc that went into making the game. Greedy, self centered @ssh#(()s wrecked it for the team.

So, yea, be flippant when ripping off a company cause it doesn't effect anyone. Keep telling yourself that.

Moopy wrote: You really need to learn how to form an argument that isn't based on personal attacks.

Oh really? You mean like this?

First of all: as of right now downloading from the internet is not illegal in my country (with the exception of games and software) as long as the copy you make is for your own personal use, and this is regardless of the (possibly illegal) source.

So no, legally I am not doing anything wrong at all.

Uploading is illegal btw.

Second, the ethical side of it: when I am interested in a product and downloading is the only/easiest way of knowing whether or not it is worth the price they are asking then that is the way to go as far as I'm concerned.

It doesn't necessarily have to do with the ability to afford either. That is a rather ignorant misconception. It has to do with being willing to spend a certain amount of money on a certain product.

The time that I bought CD's, DVD's etc without knowing whether I would like them, only to find out that they were nowhere near worth their price, is long past. Imo the music business and the movie business brought the scale of downloading that is happening these days upon themselves. As long as they keep stubbornly overpricing their products + trying to stop downloading instead of meeting consumers with more realistic prices to give those consumers better alternatives, then they can stick it. I think the music business has been doing a better job at it lately, but the DVD business not so much.

If I download something and I think the product is worth it's asking price then I will eventually buy the real thing most of the time. I do that with music, I do that with movies, and the same goes for things like Forge World books.

I'm not blindly buying something that I suspect might be overpriced, so without the download I would not have known and they would never have gotten my money. Likewise, if I don't like the product they wouldn't have gotten my money anyway.

And if someone is truly unable to afford something they would never have gotten that money either, so how do they lose anything by it? If an actual physical product would be taken away in a store it is a completely different story.

The bottom line is: my downloading actually benifits them and it benifits me as well by not letting myself get ripped off.

You responded to that with: "whatever". So why would I bother again?

Don't call people thieves when you have nothing valid to back it up. You know your words will provoke a response, so either be prepaired to discuss that response in a decent manner or don't just throw words out there. That is what gets threads off topic.

Now be done with this.




Does anyone know when the next book will come out (the one with the Orks in it) ?

Double post

If people want to have another mile long debate on morality and the law, I suggest you head over to the recasting thread, and read about pages 12-15. Everything you guys are saying has been debated to death already.

Yes, but this is Dakka, with more Warseer.

ONly on Dakka can we see a quality flamewar about morality, injustice and tosolider erupt about...a book. Love it!

This thread is closed momentarily whilst I review for errant behavior as it has been reported.

EDIT: I am re-opening this thread. You are welcome to post but please keep it to the actual topic going forward.

Nurble

Now, to finally put that bs behind me and get back on topic (PLS DON'T LOCK PLS DON'T BAN)...*cough*...I say nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure. I don't see how this could possibly end in any other way but exterminatus, it's pretty much the de facto solution to any demonic incursion for the Imperium, isn't it?

Alright, so I cut out the part of my post dealing with that discussion, since I'm sure Frazzle wouldn't like it going right off-topic again after he just unlocked it...but just so you all know, my response was perfectly civil and I wasn't being inflammatory in the slightest (would I lie?).

No warnings have been given Siddy, just lets keep to topic going forward.

Help the lazy, what price are talking for the book again?

Thanks for looking into it Frazz.

Frazzled wrote:Help the lazy, what price are talking for the book again?

More than it's worth, but less than I'm willing to pay (but don't let FW know that, otherwise they'll put the price up).

I've never gotten any of these books. How do the krieg or renegade lists differ (generally speaking) to say the new guard codex? why would you pick one over the other?

I'm planning a small renegade army in the future, probably not till next year (I kinda want to wait and see if GW is gonna do a new & updated chimera model). Just wondering if I should go with the "real" list, or just build it as an IG chimera vet list. Only gonna do about 1000 pts tops for small games, and mix it with my chaos marines for bigger apocalypse games.

If I want to go with the vraks list, which book would I get? or do I need to get all of the books to get the "full" list?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Help the lazy, what price are talking for the book again?

More than it's worth, but less than I'm willing to pay (but don't let FW know that, otherwise they'll put the price up).

Son, you have a career in the legal profession....

Necros wrote:I've never gotten any of these books.

Not even IA4? Necros, I'm shocked!

Necros wrote:How do the krieg or renegade lists differ (generally speaking) to say the new guard codex? why would you pick one over the other?

Well you wouldn't. The lists in these books come under three broad categories:

1. Too similar to be worthwhile (Vraksian Renegades was just Guard w/different names + 2 extra units).
2. Too specific to be a general army (the D-99 boys from IA4 strike me as this - they're a subset of a subset of an army).
3. Would make your opponent gak bricks (Armoured Battlegroup from IA1 is this - kind've like Armoured Company on steroids).

But in the end you don't buy these books for the lists. The lists are a minor part IMO.

Necros wrote:If I want to go with the vraks list, which book would I get? or do I need to get all of the books to get the "full" list?

Not really. The lists in the book are representative of that stage of the campaign. So the new one has an Armoured Battlegroup - likely an update to the IA1 list done in JervisHammer style (boring, devoid of options, over-priced extra armour, etc.) - and probably won't repeat the 'Human Wave w/lots of static artillery' list of IA5, or whatever the list was in IA6. Ditto for the Renegades. The lists represent a specific part of the fluff within the book, allowing people to replay those situations. It's like with IA3 and IA4 - you get the modifications you need to play those specific forces in that specific situation, and that feeds into the historical refight missions.

Frazzled wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Help the lazy, what price are talking for the book again?

More than it's worth, but less than I'm willing to pay (but don't let FW know that, otherwise they'll put the price up).

Son, you have a career in the legal profession....

Fraz,

They aren't cheap.

They are in the £30 - £45 range.

And, while they are quite nice, they are definitely a 'luxury' in a hobby that is already a luxury.

Which is why many feel that claims of "I'll buy it later, if I like it!" are often met with disbelief.

They are certainly 'worth it' if you can 'afford it' though.

I will echo H.B.M.C.'s sentiments though that for something this pricey, they really should hire a competent Editor...

I never got the books just because of cost and the fact that I had to order them from FW. When I order stuff from FW, I'm spending my game allowance on the models so I rarely have cash to spare for a book. Ya'd think for a book at least they'd try and sell them through the normal distributor channels. Or let Black Library do them or something. The only FW book I ever got was the Apocalypse one, and that was just because my FLGS could get it. I'd buy them all if I could buy them locally. Oh well.

I built a command chimera with an autocannon once, thinking since it was in an older FW book it would show up in the new IG codex. So much for that idea Seriously though, if a chimera can have a multi laser or heavy bolter, why can't it have an autocannon? no fair.

Moopy wrote:

TBD wrote:
Let me just say that the ones who are the most vocal about morality often are the biggest hypocrites when you put their lives under a microscope. But we obviously don't know, so I'm certainly not saying that this applies here.

Your Ad Hominem attack won't make you right. You really need to learn how to form an argument that isn't based on personal attacks.

I'll say this and be done with it. I work in the video game business, and when retards think they have the right to prirate whatever they want, it ends up hurting people like me.

So just to clarify:

Calling someone a "slow" is or isnt a personal attack?

slow is also a derogatory term used to make fun of people with mental disabilities. So it's ok to slight people with mental disabilities by using such a term?

What is the definition of hypocrite again?

I think he needs to work out what an Ad Hominem attack is. Ad Hominem isn't a personal attack. Ad Hominem is a personal attack in place of an argument.

1. "You are wrong."
2. "You are an idiot."
3. "You are wrong and you are an idiot."
4. "You are wrong because you are an idiot."

Only one of the above four examples is an Ad Hominem, and looking CT's post I can't see it there.

Here's hoping that there will plague zombies in the third Renegades list.

BrookM wrote:Here's hoping that there will plague zombies in the third Renegades list.

"USE TACTICS" Landers who saw the book at GD say there are.

Well, that's a relief.

Heh. My title for Warseer is catching on already.

We should totally make USE TACTICS an auto-correct.

Moopy wrote:Agreed. Downloading w/o paying = stealing. Not cool at all. I really don't like the attitude of, "I want it but don't have the money for it = I'll steal it." If you can't afford it you can't afford it. End of story.

Forgeworld do themselves no favours in this regard though as it can be quite tough to find the latest version of the rules for a particular model. Too many items are duplicated (with different rules). Not to mention that some books are almost completely pointless from a rules perspective (virtually everything in IA1 has been updated in other books or the IG codex, IA2 is entirely obselete). Not to mention them some of them are quite thin on actual rules.

I'm thoroughly anti-piracy but I wouldn't buy an IA book without looking through it (either in store, if they've got one, or by downloading it) If it's got the rules for something I want then I'll buy it but I'm not getting it otherwise.

Surely the format of the rules is a big barrier to entry? If you're buying a £50 model are you going to pay another £50 for the rules for it? I can't believe that they make so much money from the books that it cancels out the people that don't buy a model because they need to buy the book as well.

Quit dragging it off-topic you donkey-caves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just pre-ordered mine, here we go again.

It it makes anyone feel any better I downloaded all the Dark Heresy books before I bought them - emphasis on bought.

H.B.M.C. Wed, 12/Aug/2009 08:13:12 Subject: Forgeworld Newsletter #216‏

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It it makes anyone feel any better I downloaded all the Dark Heresy books

Baaaaaad H.B.M.C.! (rolls up newspaper)

H.B.M.C.

.....before I bought them - emphasis on bought.

Arrh theres a good boy! (throw intawebz biccy)

Is a Ad Hominem a Mechanical Poofter? If so, who gets the credit if someone now makes an IG themed army after reading this?

Mechanical... wha... oh... no. Not going there...

Mechanical what?

Did I miss out on something exciting?

I don't think I want to know.

Wait , so am i allowed to flip through the IA online or not?

Not legally. No.

Other than the preview pages, that is.

But nobody cares, because this is the internet.

Trust me, people download things like rulebooks all the time via torrents or rapidshare. Nobody gets caught for it.

I download every Codex GW puts out. I also buy every Codex they put out. I just like having an electronic version on call wherever I need it to check things, and the book for when I want to sit down and read it.

If GW released PDF's themselves* (like Catalyst does) I'd buy them, and we wouldn't have this problem.




*In a language other than Japanese, before anyone points that out.

H.B.M.C. wrote:It it makes anyone feel any better I downloaded all the Dark Heresy books before I bought them - emphasis on bought.

I think the argument was that it didn't really matter if you were going to buy them anyway or not, the act of downloading them in the first place was bad enough.

But anyway, I'm not sure I see much point in keeping the older IA books around anymore, since all the rules have been outdated. I know this is GW and all and they would never do it, but they really should come down in price or something, since the fluff is really the only thing you're getting out of it.

The older books are troves of background information. The rules are so-so but that's not why people buy these books, or so I dearly hope. When I bought IA 4 at my GW store I was warned that it was a poor gaming aid but a great background book.

I bought them for the background not the rules - who buys FW books for the rules, honestly? - so I'm happy with them.

I have purchased all os the AI books and have not been disappointed with them, with the possible exception of buying AI6 and reading it through just to find it was continued in AI7!

As stated the fluff is good the rules less so now, where I really think they are worth it is the expansion of detail, the regimental logs/registers included with AI3 were great as are the 2nd line and support vehicles.

All of the Lists presented are what I would call fluff lists, i.e. realistic forces (to the 40K universe). They make sense for the setting/campaign and are good to use games particularly if you use them for scenarios.

Well, it is to be expected when the Vraks campaign is listed as a trilogy.

No Brook, notprop is right about IA6. Anyone who waited a year for that only to read it, realise it was an expensive advert for the Reaver Titan, and then realise that it would be another year until we get the end had to have been disappointed.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I bought them for the background not the rules - who buys FW books for the rules, honestly? - so I'm happy with them.

This is the problem - you have to buy them for the rules if you want to use the FW models but paying £50 for the rules for a couple of tanks you might want is just too steep.

I'll buy IA8 for the elysian drop list but I've made a point of not buying IA3-7. IA apoc is pretty good value though.

H.B.M.C. Wed, 12/Aug/2009 12:09:02 Subject: Forgeworld Newsletter #216‏

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No Brook, notprop is right about IA6. Anyone who waited a year for that only to read it, realise it was an expensive advert for the Reaver Titan, and then realise that it would be another year until we get the end had to have been disappointed.

Naively true I’m afraid. Didn't pick up on the whole trilogy thing at all then gradually got closer to the end of the background story section, noting I was getting closer and closer to the exciting finale, increasingly thinking that with only a few pages left it must be an Nuke/Virus bomb copout, instead I got................Tune in for next years exciting instalment of ....... VRAKS!!

Cliff hanger certainly, but a little bit disappointing none the less.

Scott-S6 wrote:This is the problem - you have to buy them for the rules if you want to use the FW models but paying £50 for the rules for a couple of tanks you might want is just too steep.

Well I don't think of it that way, plus I've got a stack of FW tanks, so it worked out well for me.

Eh, I love the books for the fluff etc.. but some of the stuff is just not well designed rules wise at ALL.