in the new rule you can run on a role of d6. i was wandering if this scenario is allowed.

khorne move 6 inches, then role to run, they run 6 inches, then role to fleet, they fleet 6 inches, and then asssault six inches.

its just a bit weird like how they can move 24 inches in one turn. thats the speed of a bike using turbo boosters!

Berzerkers aren't fleet, so they can't assault after running. Even if they could, that is only 18'' of movement anyway. Fleet and run are the same action, it is just called fleet if the model has fleet of foot rule, in which case it can assault after the run roll.

Nope, Khorne Zerkers dont have fleet. So, they can move 6 inches, they can then either shoot and try to assault, or they can run (d6) and thats it.

I think the Zerkers may have had fleet under the old rules, but the new codex removed that.

So the key is - Land Raider them 12 inches, deploy 2 inches away, and then assault 6 inches. thats a 20 inch assault range.

so not bad.

i have the newest codex and it says they can fleet. and also, i thought running is a completely different thing to fleeting?

Hrm this is the cover of the current:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1620071&prodId=prod1095094

Is this the one you have? If the answer is yes, I better have a good look at my rules, I seriously thought they didnt have fleet in this one!

In any case, yes, running is different from fleet, but they interact.

Almost all units may run. This means they may run d6 inches extra in the shooting phase, instead of shooting.
If they do not have the special rule of 'fleet', these units may not assault in that turn.
If they do have fleet, they may continue to assault in that turn (meaning they move 6 in movement, d6 in shooting and assault 6).

I think you're confusing Fleet with Furious Charge. They couldn't fleet in the previous codex either.

no. i just checked the rules, (which by the way, is the one shown above,) and they have the special rules, fleet, furious charge and fearless! are you sure you have got your facts right and/or the right codex?

I actually had to look at my codex when I read this to double check lol. But I have it in front of me right now and Khorne Berzerker special rules are Mark of Khorne, Fearless, and furious charge. But to answer the actual question that was initially posted no you cannot run and fleet as stated before since when you fleet you are running its just with fleet you are alowed to assault. You cannot do the same action twice.

sorry. i was getting my info from the 4th edition. after i looked at the 5th edition i realised that.however i still think beserkers have fleet. it would make sense, wouldnt it?

Bezerkers don't have fleet, (unless you're in apoc with the malestrom of gore datasheet). Also check up how fleet works now.

mrnecron wrote:sorry. i was getting my info from the 4th edition. after i looked at the 5th edition i realised that.however i still think beserkers have fleet. it would make sense, wouldnt it?

You of course mean 3.5 as the pictured codex is 4E's Renegade Marine dex, we don't have a 5E book yet, other wise I'm sure we'd be complaining alot more about loss of stuff.

mrnecron wrote:sorry. i was getting my info from the 4th edition. after i looked at the 5th edition i realised that.however i still think beserkers have fleet. it would make sense, wouldnt it?

What? The old Berzerkers did not have Fleet. I've got my codex right here. Models with the Mark of Khorne (Berzerkers, whether normal ones, Termies, characters or otherwise) have compulsory movement on a D6 roll of 1-2, Fearless, +1 attack, must Sweeping Advance if possible, Khornate characters cannot join units that are not marked (and vice versa) and characters may take equipment from the Khorne armoury.

Sorry, op, but you are 100% unequivocally wrong.

Khorne Berserkers have never had Fleet in any way shape or form at any time ever. In the Original 3rd edition codex, they didn't, In the later 3rd Edition Codex, they didn't (though they had Blood Frenzy, but that was a totally different rule) and in the most current codex they do not have fleet.

Gwar, Cheese, and Reaver are right, berzerkers do not have and have never had fleet of foot, and fleet of foot does not allow you to run twice per turn, you can run once and then assault. I have no idea what book you're reading that gives them fleet, but it isn't published by GW.

Fleet no longer provides any movement.

BrotherStynier:

The last Codex: Chaos Space Marines is the 5th edition codex, despite being published during the dying days of 4th edition. Like Codex: Orks it was designed to be backwards compatible with 4th edition while fitting the 5th edition rules.

coredump wrote:Fleet no longer provides any movement.

And that's the thing to remember. You can Run instead of shooting. Models with the Fleet rule may assault after running (as long as nothing else prevents it, ofc).

Darkreaver55 wrote:Berzerkers aren't fleet, so they can't assault after running. Even if they could, that is only 18'' of movement anyway. Fleet and run are the same action, it is just called fleet if the model has fleet of foot rule, in which case it can assault after the run roll.

not true, fleet is an ability that allows a model to charge after it has ran. It does not confer extra movement and is not the same thing as running. A lot of people still use fleet as per 4th edition rules, telling their opponent they are fleeting and rolling a d6, when in fact they are running. So, no a berserker can only move 6" and charge 6" if an enemy is within charge range, giving them a 12" threat range. As opposed to say a model with fleet who can move 6" run for d6" and charge if a model is withing range, giving them a possible 18" threat range. I have no idea how the OP got 24".

As far as the land raider you can actually move 21" when you deploy out of the landraider the rear of the base has to be within 2" and since the base is 1" wide and that effectively gives you a 3" deployment 12" move and a 6" charge all for 21".

Gwar! wrote:Sorry, op, but you are 100% unequivocally wrong.

Gwar! wrote:Sorry, op, but you are 100% unequivocally wrong.

Khorne Berserkers have never had Fleet in any way shape or form at any time ever. In the Original 3rd edition codex, they didn't, In the later 3rd Edition Codex, they didn't (though they had Blood Frenzy, but that was a totally different rule) and in the most current codex they do not have fleet.

Those sentences contradict each other. Blood Frenzy does count as being "Fleet in any way shape or form". Not all three but pick one or two of the three of the following: way, shape, or form

Canonness Rory wrote:Gwar, Cheese, and Reaver are right, berzerkers do not have and have never had fleet of foot, and fleet of foot does not allow you to run twice per turn, you can run once and then assault. I have no idea what book you're reading that gives them fleet, but it isn't published by GW.

Hold on. With a little scotch tape, a printer, and creative ruling, I can make any codex show a unit having fleet.
Unfortunately, even with creative codex crafting, Khorne Berzerks still can't fleet...

Blood frenzy was not fleet, and is not like fleet from 4th ed as it happens in the movement phase; fleet run rolls happened in shooting.

I am really unsure how the OP managed to read "fleet" in the current codex: it really, really does not say that.

im sorry about this pointless debate. although it was a good learning process for me.
i realised that i was getting the fleet information, (d6 roll and run and assault thing,) from the 4th ed rule book.
i somehow got it into my head that beserkers can fleet. i think the owner of the club i went to got his rules mixed up and in effect, mixed me up.

sorry again.

There you go, lesson learned: read the rulebook carefully before asking questions.

Second lesson: On your keyboard is a key labeled "shift". If you press that at the same time as you press a letter key, that letter's shape changes. Once changed, these letters are what are called "upper case letters", "capital letters", "majuscules" or "caps".

In English, we use them every time we start a sentence, when citing proper names, or use acronyms. Sometimes people try to use them for emphasis, BY WRITING ENTIRELY IN ALL-CAPS, but this is only done by idiots and is the textual equivalent of shouting when you should be using your indoor voice. Use italics instead. All in all, use a combination of upper and lower case to make your posts not only legible, but pleasant to read as well.

Nurglitch wrote:BrotherStynier:

The last Codex: Chaos Space Marines is the 5th edition codex, despite being published during the dying days of 4th edition. Like Codex: Orks it was designed to be backwards compatible with 4th edition while fitting the 5th edition rules.

What about it was written for 5th?

The Crazed! rule of Chaos Dreadnoughts, the Blood Rage results states that the Dreadnought gains the Fleet rule and must run during the Shooting phase.

Blight Grenades are listed as Defensive Grenades.

Nurglitch wrote:There you go, lesson learned: read the rulebook carefully before asking questions.

Second lesson: On your keyboard is a key labeled "shift". If you press that at the same time as you press a letter key, that letter's shape changes. Once changed, these letters are what are called "upper case letters", "capital letters", "majuscules" or "caps".

In English, we use them every time we start a sentence, when citing proper names, or use acronyms. Sometimes people try to use them for emphasis, BY WRITING ENTIRELY IN ALL-CAPS, but this is only done by idiots and is the textual equivalent of shouting when you should be using your indoor voice. Use italics instead. All in all, use a combination of upper and lower case to make your posts not only legible, but pleasant to read as well.

While I understand and even appreciate your desire to 'educate' people in proper online forum etiquette, I think this was wholly inappropriate (and rather ironic, I might add). Not only was it unnecessarily rude but also very pretentious and condescending. If you intended anyone to read this and say "Good idea, I'm glad he pointed it out!" (which is what I would assume was your intention) then I would wager you failed.

If, on the other hand, your intention was to try and make someone feel stupid, small and unwelcome, then I think you probably succeeded.

DoW

EDIT: Spelling.

Nurglitch wrote:The Crazed! rule of Chaos Dreadnoughts, the Blood Rage results states that the Dreadnought gains the Fleet rule and must run during the Shooting phase.

Blight Grenades are listed as Defensive Grenades.

Okay.

You don't want to be running those berzerkers around the board anyway. No one will be letting you get into assault range with them.

If you move them up in a rhino they'll get shot up after disembarking.

The only way to really get good use out of berzerkers is by putting them in a land raider with demonic possesion to make sure they get where they need to be and can charge the turn they disembark. They make for a mean shock unit and a good addition to most CSM builds.

Im not a big fan of rhinos bu i will try the land raider thing.

Second lesson: On your keyboard is a key labeled "shift". If you press that at the same time as you press a letter key, that letter's shape changes. Once changed, these letters are what are called "upper case letters", "capital letters", "majuscules" or "caps".

In English, we use them every time we start a sentence, when citing proper names, or use acronyms. Sometimes people try to use them for emphasis, BY WRITING ENTIRELY IN ALL-CAPS, but this is only done by idiots and is the textual equivalent of shouting when you should be using your indoor voice. Use italics instead. All in all, use a combination of upper and lower case to make your posts not only legible, but pleasant to read

That comment was completely pointless and frankly i dont care about punctuation on a chat website. Anyway, why should you care if i do capitals or not.

Anyway, im starting a khorne army, im thinking some possessed or another defiler, or maybe more khorne to get next. What do you think i should get from personal experience?

The khorne army I run with right now is not the most competitive build but its not the pits either.

At 1850 pts. I run:

2x Demon prince, wings and Mark of Khorne

2x 10 berzerkers with 2 plasma pistols, 1 upgraded to skull champ with power fist and melta bombs

1x 10 berzerkers with 2 plasma pistols, 1 upgraded to skull champ with power fist

3 land raiders with demonic possesion

mrnecron wrote:

Edited for length

That comment was completely pointless and frankly i dont care about punctuation on a chat website. Anyway, why should you care if i do capitals or not.

Anyway, im starting a khorne army, im thinking some possessed or another defiler, or maybe more khorne to get next. What do you think i should get from personal experience?

An education.

When I do bring my WE out from their box I tend to run 3-4 squads of Bezerkers + champ in rhinos. I'm a big believer in them, as it gets them to the right place, and with EA they'll keep moving. Yes you may get charged, but then a second squad comes on and knocks them back.

I normally have a LR with 5 Khornate Termi's (4 with LC's one with CF+HF) and depending on my mood, it's oblits or defiler/vindicator.

Oh and kharn's a nice HQ

I already have some khorne stuff.

kharn the betrayer,

29 khorne bezerkers,

defiler with mark of khorne,

5 termies with mark of khorne,

chaos lord with lightning claws and mark of khorne. I think a daemon prince would make a nice addition but how do all you feel about possessed. Would the be a nice addition to my army or not?

Possessed are over priced and not worth it (you'd be better of taking Fabius Bile and enhancing a squad of CSM). Being fair to them they can get nice things and the odds of them getting some thing good is ok (1/3 great 1/3 good 1/3 wast of space) but most people like to know what they're getting.

I mean...
...spend 4pts more you get a Chaos Terminator he gets a power weapon and a gun and 2 attacks

...spend 8pts less and take more chosen still 2 attacks (this time for having 2 CC weapons) and 4 of them can take Special CC weapons. But you could just take 5 Flamer/meltaguns (/plasmaguns but that's a risk I don't like)

mrnecron wrote:

That comment was completely pointless and frankly i dont care about punctuation on a chat website. Anyway, why should you care if i do capitals or not.

While I agree that the harshness of Nurglitch's post was unnecessary, I would like to point you to my signature... it'll help you to understand why he posted what he did.

I think it's time to move this to another forum as it is no longer a rules question.

Lordhat wrote:While I agree that the harshness of Nurglitch's post was unnecessary, I would like to point you to my signature... it'll help you to understand why he posted what he did.

Is it because he agrees with me? Because I certainly agree with him in this instance

mrnecron wrote:That comment was completely pointless and frankly i dont care about punctuation on a chat website. Anyway, why should you care if i do capitals or not.

Perhaps you should read the Dakka posting guidelines:

"Please remember that posting and reading online is a visual format and as such the spelling, grammar and look of your posts is the only way others understand what you are saying. Therefore, in order to be polite, all users are expected to make an effort to use proper spelling, grammar and punctuation and should refrain from using internet shorthand or other distracting methods of writing, such as writing a post completely bolded, with capital letters, in a strange color, etc."

Gwar! wrote:

Lordhat wrote:While I agree that the harshness of Nurglitch's post was unnecessary, I would like to point you to my signature... it'll help you to understand why he posted what he did.

Is it because he agrees with me? Because I certainly agree with him in this instance

I think that about covers it.

unistoo wrote:

mrnecron wrote:That comment was completely pointless and frankly i dont care about punctuation on a chat website. Anyway, why should you care if i do capitals or not.

Perhaps you should read the Dakka posting guidelines:

"Please remember that posting and reading online is a visual format and as such the spelling, grammar and look of your posts is the only way others understand what you are saying. Therefore, in order to be polite, all users are expected to make an effort to use proper spelling, grammar and punctuation and should refrain from using internet shorthand or other distracting methods of writing, such as writing a post completely bolded, with capital letters, in a strange color, etc."

Ugh.

YES, the above is true.

And so is this:

DakkaDakka wrote:Rule 1: Be Polite
This seems obvious, however many folks can sometimes forget that common courtesy goes a long way to lending respect to both you and your opinions. Just because you don't see the other users' faces doesn't mean they don't have feelings and won't be hurt by rude comments or offensive images. When you see something that you find silly, rude or insulting first assume that perhaps there is more to it than you initially thought. Look at it again, keeping in mind that tone and inflection is difficult to convey in a visual format. It may be that the person is attempting a joke or is exaggerating on purpose. It is best to politely request clarification before accusing someone being ignorant, a liar, or worse.

Remember that we have users of all ages and that Dakka should be a welcoming place for everyone to enjoy.

Further clarification, if necessary, can be found here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp

There have been MANY instances in this thread which could warrant a warning and/or suspension.

Everyone needs to CALM DOWN, immediately.

What I wrote may have come across as brusque - for which I apologize, it was not my intention to be so - he asked "why [he] should care" and I just wanted to point out why he should.

Perhaps I need to throw in a few more smileys

mrnecron wrote:
29 khorne bezerkers,

You really, really need to read your codex: defilers are vehicles and cannot take marks.

augustus5 wrote:You don't want to be running those berzerkers around the board anyway. No one will be letting you get into assault range with them.

If you move them up in a rhino they'll get shot up after disembarking.

The only way to really get good use out of berzerkers is by putting them in a land raider with demonic possesion to make sure they get where they need to be and can charge the turn they disembark. They make for a mean shock unit and a good addition to most CSM builds.

Is the following possible:

Turn 1: Charge Rhino forwards into position. Keep front armour towards enemy guns. Use Smoke Launchers.
Turn 2: Pivot Rhino so hatches are near enemy troops (Does not count as moving). Disembark 'zerkers. Charge foes.

At Nosferatu: He has the 3.5rd (say that out loud) edition codex and 4th edition rulebook apparently.

At Black Spike: Yes.

DarkHound wrote:At Nosferatu: He has the 3.5rd (say that out loud)

I normally say "Three Point Five Ed" (as I play DnD too) but I suppose it could be said "Three point Five-erd?

I was going for "third point five," although it isn't shown in the spelling for the sake of ones sanity. 3rd.5? IRRELEVANT.

BlackSpike wrote:Is the following possible:

Turn 1: Charge Rhino forwards into position. Keep front armour towards enemy guns. Use Smoke Launchers.
Turn 2: Pivot Rhino so hatches are near enemy troops (Does not count as moving). Disembark 'zerkers. Charge foes.

No, pivoting is movement for disembarking (see BGB p.67)

Couldn't you move. In the shooting faze, pivot and then disembark?

Congratulations on the attempt at punctuation, little more effort needed though. Pivoting is in the movement phase

As is disembarking

Ok my pointlessly arguing friends/enemies.

Move, then pivot, then disembark. Happy now.

mrnecron wrote:Ok my pointlessly arguing friends/enemies.

Move, then pivot, then disembark. Happy now.

You can, but you can't then assault, though you can still shoot.

BlackSpike wrote:

augustus5 wrote:You don't want to be running those berzerkers around the board anyway. No one will be letting you get into assault range with them.

If you move them up in a rhino they'll get shot up after disembarking.

The only way to really get good use out of berzerkers is by putting them in a land raider with demonic possesion to make sure they get where they need to be and can charge the turn they disembark. They make for a mean shock unit and a good addition to most CSM builds.

Is the following possible:

Turn 1: Charge Rhino forwards into position. Keep front armour towards enemy guns. Use Smoke Launchers.
Turn 2: Pivot Rhino so hatches are near enemy troops (Does not count as moving). Disembark 'zerkers. Charge foes.

A good player won't allow rhinos full of dedicated assault troops get anywhere near their lines. A land raider with demonic possesion is much more resilient and has a better chance to get those berzerkers in on the charge. I will never put berzerkers into a rhino.

Remember you don't have to tell the opposition what is embarked in the tanks.

mrnecron wrote:Remember you don't have to tell the opposition what is embarked in the tanks.

Errm, Yes, you do. You DO have the 5th edition Rulebook yes?

To point out what Gwar! is talking about:

BGB p.92 wrote:...always make clear to your opponent which squads are embarked in which transport vehicle.

Unless you and your opponent agree otherwise before the game, this is how you must play it.

unistoo wrote:To point out what Gwar! is talking about:

BGB p.92 wrote:...always make clear to your opponent which squads are embarked in which transport vehicle.

Unless you and your opponent agree otherwise before the game, this is how you must play it.

You can also let Berserker's have Fleet or give Orks a 2+ Save if you and your opponent agree to it. As such, I omitted it from my post as adding "Unless you and your opponent agree otherwise" to every single sentence would just draw things out

Gwar! wrote:You can also let Berserker's have Fleet or give Orks a 2+ Save if you and your opponent agree to it. As such, I omitted it from my post as adding "Unless you and your opponent agree otherwise" to every single sentence would just draw things out

I know what you're saying, but the BGB does here specifically go on to talk about discussing rosters and things with your opponent, so I decided to paraphrase it so I couldn't be accused of cherrypicking.

So, I have just had an exchange of private messages with mrnecron, as follows:

mrnecron wrote:Im English too,however frankly i dont care about punctuation on a chat website. Its not like its homework!

Nurglitch wrote:Yes, so I noticed. For some reason people with a Union Jack beside their name have the least legible English. But no, these forums aren't homework, they are something far more important: they are forums in which people from different backgrounds come together to communicate using English. So proper spelling and grammar is a courtesy to the other people who have to read what you've written.

The whole point of using 'proper' English (spelling, grammar, punctuation) is to make communication clearer and easier, particularly for those who read English as a second language, or for those who function in a world where the conventions of proper English are commonly observed. That's why, as a student, you're encouraged to learn how to spell properly and employ grammar well, because as an adult you will often need to make yourself understood to other English users. Since only perfect practice makes perfect, posting on these forums is an excellent opportunity for you to increase your skill and comfort with using English, as well as a courtesy to other forum users.

mrnecron wrote:I post on this forum for tips and help on war hammer while you keep nagging me about grammar.
I have enough practice with my "spelling, grammar and punctuation" while i write three or four fifty paged comedy's in some of my spare time.
Im the one that has learnt flash cs4 and dream weaver cs4, (meant for adults!) At the age of eighteen. Get off my back mate. When i have my own website, earning tonnes of money, your gonna wish you spent less time bugging me and working on your life, maybe you may get a life! And seriously man, don't disrespect English citizens! There are plenty of words i want to call you but then i would get banned from this website. Again, leave me alone!

So I would publicly like to apologize to mrnecron for 'nagging' him about the way he posts. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have derailed this thread when nitpicking at silly irrelevant details, rather than addressing your question.

Why does he keep using "i" :(

That makes me a Saaaaaaad Panda

Thank you to Nurglitch however i still do not like gwar. Im sorry if i have offended you, however if you look at this thread from a different perspective than ours its quite funny how the topic of the khorne berserker's fleet/run topic has evolved/devolved to this.lol

mrnecron wrote:however i still do not like gwar.

I am so saddened

nosferatu1001 wrote:You really, really need to read your codex: defilers are vehicles and cannot take marks.

They can in Codex: Defiler Kingdoms.

Nurglitch wrote:So I would publicly like to apologize to mrnecron for 'nagging' him about the way he posts. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have derailed this thread when nitpicking at silly irrelevant details, rather than addressing your question.

It's very hard to apologize sincerely - especially in a public setting - so my respect for Nurglitch has risen considerably.
(Not that my opinion is terribly important in the grand scheme of things, but I figured credit was due.)

And yes, if I know there's a transport full of Berzerkers coming at me, that transport will have a very high priority on my kill list. A Landraider will make it much more likely that it will get close enough to disgorge some nasties to butcher my guardsmen.

DoW

One thing to point out: being 18 IS being an adult, and quite frankly CS4 is...well, it makes it as easy for you as possible.

One way to do it is to a) use cover and fire lanes to get 4+ saves on your vehicles (of just simply block LOS: rhinios arent that tall!) or b) have many rhinos with bezerkers coming at you. I run 3: run them forwards, pop smoke, using 2 to block one from the opponents shooting. This can give you a 14" bubble for next turn....

Thanks for the tips, but how do you feel about outflanking them?

Mod:

Not to derail the thread...

What Nurglitch said about Dakka's grammar policy is correct.

It's not because we are grammar nazis, though of course lots of us are because we are too old.

The real reason is that the forum has an international readership. Many users are not native English speakers and rely on good grammar and spelling to work out the meaning of posts.

That was just a public service announcement. Now let's return to the topic.

Kilkrazy wrote:Mod:
Not to derail the thread...
What Nurglitch said about Dakka's grammar policy is correct.
It's not because we are grammar nazis, though of course lots of us are because we are too old.
The real reason is that the forum has an international readership. Many users are not native English speakers and rely on good grammar and spelling to work out the meaning of posts.
That was just a public service announcement. Now let's return to the topic.

Absolutely. But the politeness and tone of your post throws into sharp relief that which I objected to in his. I think we can all agree that it's possible to say things that are absolutely correct in very unpleasant and condescending ways.

I'm all for non-MOD folks helping others out when they aren't abiding by the forum rules, but what's stopping them from doing it nicely? Isn't that part of the rules too?

DoW

Ok. I'm going to set this straight. I'm sorry if i offended anyone on tis thread and i am going to put more effort into my grammar. Back to the topic. How do you feel about outflanking the khorne berserker's.

How would you out flank with them? They don't have the Scout or Infiltrate special rule, infact only Chosen have infiltrate and possessed only get scouts if you roll it.

So I'd say you can't outflank them.

May I ask, have you read the rules?

Yeah how on earth are you outflanking them? As BrotherStynier said have you read the rules?

So far you've showed an almost diabolical lack of rules understanding and I think before you take your toy soldiers out next you should possibly re read the entire rule book, then do so again untill you actually understand how it works!

Oh shut the hell up. Now your just being mean!

And telling someone to "shut the hell up" isn't being mean?

They are correct, you cannot outflank berzerkers, and the very fact that you thought you could, or that they could fleet, or that fleet let you run twice, has demonstrated a sub-par understanding of the rules on your part. The best advice I can give you, before telling you anything about tactics, is to go back, re-read the 5th edition rulebook, and your chaos codex. They will help you more than we possible could.

I'm so excited by the imminent re-release of Space Hulk that I'm inclined to be generous,
so, for the LAST time:

Alpharius wrote:

unistoo wrote:

mrnecron wrote:That comment was completely pointless and frankly i dont care about punctuation on a chat website. Anyway, why should you care if i do capitals or not.

Perhaps you should read the Dakka posting guidelines:

"Please remember that posting and reading online is a visual format and as such the spelling, grammar and look of your posts is the only way others understand what you are saying. Therefore, in order to be polite, all users are expected to make an effort to use proper spelling, grammar and punctuation and should refrain from using internet shorthand or other distracting methods of writing, such as writing a post completely bolded, with capital letters, in a strange color, etc."

Ugh.

YES, the above is true.

And so is this:

DakkaDakka wrote:Rule 1: Be Polite
This seems obvious, however many folks can sometimes forget that common courtesy goes a long way to lending respect to both you and your opinions. Just because you don't see the other users' faces doesn't mean they don't have feelings and won't be hurt by rude comments or offensive images. When you see something that you find silly, rude or insulting first assume that perhaps there is more to it than you initially thought. Look at it again, keeping in mind that tone and inflection is difficult to convey in a visual format. It may be that the person is attempting a joke or is exaggerating on purpose. It is best to politely request clarification before accusing someone being ignorant, a liar, or worse.

Remember that we have users of all ages and that Dakka should be a welcoming place for everyone to enjoy.

Further clarification, if necessary, can be found here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp

There have been MANY instances in this thread which could warrant a warning and/or suspension.

Everyone needs to CALM DOWN, immediately.

I apologize if I was rude, I didn't mean to come off so harsh.

I too Apologise if i was rude

Uhm...is this becoming Warseer/BnC?

The mod team seems very heavy handed and ever present in this thread for some reason...

Anyway, I'm going to disagree with augustus5 about Land Raiders. Rhino's make perfect delivery systems for berzerkers, as you can have 4 squads of zerkers in rhinos for the same points as 2 squads of zerkers in land raiders. More is always better, especially when you are talking about an army that only consists of 3x Land Raiders and 3x berzerker squads. You don't have alot of counters with that list.

Back to rhinos. There is nothing stopping you from driving the rhinos up and turning them in one turn (since their side armor is 11), popping smoke, and then in the next turn have the berzerkers disembark and assault.

I did this to great effect in a local tourney yesterday. Maybe I'll post a battle report.

I distinctly remember a member of dakka saying this...

You can also let Berserker's have Fleet or give Orks a 2+ Save if you and your opponent agree to it. As such, I omitted it from my post as adding "Unless you and your opponent agree otherwise" to every single sentence would just draw things out.

So actually, my friend and i allow khorne berserker's to have fleet and outflank so please can you just give me tips. I'm sorry i didn't give you the full details and i know you were trying not to mislead me but lets stay on topic shall we.

Rhinos make for cheaper transports, but Landraiders are always the better transport. You are going to lose more squads and Rhinos, but you have more left, compared to losing less Landraiders and Berserkers with the latter. With the latter you give out less KPs. This doesn't mean Rhinos are bad, just worse than Landraiders.

The problem I have with Berserkers is that they aren't great Troops. Troops need to take and hold objectives. Berserkers are amazing at half of that, and nearly useless on the other half. This means you can't rely soley on Berserkers for your Troops. I recommend Khorne marked CSM. They have all the shooting of a Tac squad, better close combat than an Assault Squad (for fending off assaults) and run at about the same price as Berserkers. In a KP mission, they have the versitility of being able to help the Berserkers in Assault or provide cover fire. You'll have to look at the rest of your list and see though.

EDIT: Alright, if they have fleet, you do all of the above except that they have a larger assault radius now. Cool beans, but it doesn't really change how the unit functions. I don't know why any opponent would agree to that without bumping the Berserkers price up by like 4 PPM though. You also wouldn't be able to do that in a tournament or against anyone who wasn't a friend of yours.

mrnecron wrote:I distinctly remember a member of dakka saying this...

You can also let Berserker's have Fleet or give Orks a 2+ Save if you and your opponent agree to it. As such, I omitted it from my post as adding "Unless you and your opponent agree otherwise" to every single sentence would just draw things out.

So actually, my friend and i allow khorne berserker's to have fleet and outflank so please can you just give me tips. I'm sorry i didn't give you the full details and i know you were trying not to mislead me but lets stay on topic shall we.

Gwar's point (the guy you have quoted) was that it's your game and you can decide to change the rules however you want. Absolutely however you want. If the way that you and your friends play your game, Berzerkers have fleet and are able to outflank, then they can, and that's that.

The second, implied point in Gwar's post is that the majority of people in this forum don't add or subtract rules from the game system. In our game system, Berzerker's can't fleet, and they can't outflank. So asking advice about that is like asking us what is our favorite way to change the tires on our vegetable-powered Heliboats; in our world these things don't exist and we don't spend any time thinking about it.

If you add things like what you've suggested to your game, then that's great and I hope it works for you. When asking about balance or tactics, though, you should discuss that solely with your gaming friends because they're the ones you're going to have to play with and who will have to be 'okay' with how much stronger the resulting units are.

mrnecron wrote:I distinctly remember a member of dakka saying this...

You can also let Berserker's have Fleet or give Orks a 2+ Save if you and your opponent agree to it. As such, I omitted it from my post as adding "Unless you and your opponent agree otherwise" to every single sentence would just draw things out.

So actually, my friend and i allow khorne berserker's to have fleet and outflank so please can you just give me tips. I'm sorry i didn't give you the full details and i know you were trying not to mislead me but lets stay on topic shall we.

Y'know, what you are saying here may be true. But it does not have the ring of truth to it. If it were, you would have started with "My friends and I use Fleet for Bezerkers" Instead, you kept insisting it was in the codex, in the 5E codex, in the 4E codex, etc etc.

Only when called on it, several times, have you brought this story out as a reason.

mrnecron wrote:

So actually, my friend and i allow khorne berserker's to have fleet and outflank...

mrnecron wrote:
i have the newest codex and it says they can fleet. and also, i thought running is a completely different thing to fleeting?

So did you read they had fleet or was it something you and your friend agreed since you started this post?

Mod:

There are a lot of alerts coming in from this thread.

I'm sorry, Kilkrazy, I just can't play nice. You're going to have to send her over to sort me out...

I'm afraid it's the only way.

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:I'm sorry, Kilkrazy, I just can't play nice. You're going to have to send her over to sort me out...

I'm afraid it's the only way.

DoW

her? sorry but that's a ladyboy ... still he's on his way

Tri wrote:

DogOfWar wrote:I'm sorry, Kilkrazy, I just can't play nice. You're going to have to send her over to sort me out...

I'm afraid it's the only way.

DoW

her? sorry but that's a ladyboy ... still he's on his way

-Gwar Intercepts-

Send him/her over to me, then. I don't mind.

Gwar! wrote:

Tri wrote:

DogOfWar wrote:I'm sorry, Kilkrazy, I just can't play nice. You're going to have to send her over to sort me out...

I'm afraid it's the only way.

DoW

her? sorry but that's a ladyboy ... still he's on his way

-Gwar Intercepts-

Gwar! to the rescue!

It's been a long time though, to be fair, so I think I would've let her 'counts as'...

DoW

This thread very very quickly went from bickering to disturbing.

I think it's ironic that it was completely derailed by a moderator, rather than being put back on track.

Nurglitch wrote:I think it's ironic that it was completely derailed by a moderator, rather than being put back on track.

Agreed.

Although I think the thread was done for when it was discovered that the OP's question wasn't "how do Berserkers work in 5th edition?" but rather "who wants to help me figure out how to make my house rules Berserkers even more overpowered?"

DoW

Having now learnt that berzerkers can fleet I finally know what will be my next army. Truly most awsome.

G

If you give berzerkers a 2+ save and free power weapons to go with their fleet, they become even crazier.

Well they are certainly howling mad.

G

Lockdown time.

If the original poster wishes to discuss house rules, he should make a new thread in the Proposed Rules forum. Sourclams’ post FTW.