swiped shamelessly from Warseer, shouts out to Mr. Avian.

If there was every an army that I wanted to see hit with the Nerf Hammer, this was the one!

It will be interesting to see how certain things are "handled" in this...

Ooohh, i like how gaunt and sickly they look!

Hmmm, Interesting.

Gonna have to show the other half this when I get home. She was wondering if they'd redo clanrats.

If she likes them I could see her joining the furry hordes as she loves rats.

I certainly think they look better than the current generation clanrats.

Woot, nice looking clanrats! I'm delighted for Skaven players everywhere.

WOW! They don't look like monkey dogs anymore!!!!! Awesome! Although hopefully they will still keep the cool plaguemonk kit they just did not too long ago for Lustria.

Hmm...how to use those for 40k....

Plaguemonk kit is staying.

So much good news!

I'll be able to start playing fantasy again!

Finally! Skaven that actually look like rats and not slowed labradors with absurdly large hands

Those look pretty slick... they would make great lost and the damned gribblies!

This message brought to you by The Lost and the Damned, the best reason for buying fantasy kits that ever got canned.

They still look monkey-like to me. The heads are too big. Disappointed.

Another army where you have to buy tons of stuff just to have decent troops on the table.

They will probably pull the same crap as with the Imperial Guard, so prepare for 10 Rats for 20,- Euro instead of 20 for 30,-

Not something I'd buy, but those models shown do look nice.

TBD wrote:They will probably pull the same crap as with the Imperial Guard, so prepare for 10 Rats for 20,- Euro instead of 20 for 30,-

Nope.

Do you know that for sure?

They did it with Empire troops as well (but the Lizardmen Temple Guard are a good deal though).

I'm still happy I converted all my clanrats out of plague monk bodies. I like the sickly look these have, so might just use these for plague monks.

The army doesn't need a nerf, its a rank and flank army, its easy to beat if you've ever played skaven yourself competitively. Knowing its strengths and weaknesses are keep. Its not like its going to beat you with a frontal charge at str 3..

Hmmm... Having given a pass to the truly awful recent plastics, that's got me tempted! The old Jes Godwin sculpts were great, but showing their age a bit. Those new plastics show some potential.

Have to see how the rest of the line comes out. Well, that and see how the Army Book turns out...

Vale,

JohnS

TBD wrote:Do you know that for sure?

I am about as sure as I was over the cardboard tiles in Hulk that clanrats will not be in boxes of 10.

..set myself up for a fall now eh ?

njpc wrote:The army doesn't need a nerf, its a rank and flank army, its easy to beat if you've ever played skaven yourself competitively. Knowing its strengths and weaknesses are keep. Its not like its going to beat you with a frontal charge at str 3..

I thought with this army it was mainly the magic and shooting that could be particularly tricky and nasty?

I'm not very familiar with Skaven though, so I could be wrong.

Boxes of 15 probably, and a minimum unit size of 30 or something equally stupid.

Not liking the huge-headed hunchback thing. They look like dog-men.

Magical and shooting are nasty but in the current wfb, every book that has come out for the last year has a way to neutralize magic easily...

Lizardman: EoTG+slaan, if an EoTG gets near a skaven army the shockwave kills units fast, plus the extra DD are nice.
Dark Elves: ring of hotek... one minor magic items, stops an entire army.
High Elves: gem that stops magic phase, bonuses to dispel, and lots of shooting
Warriors: so much magic resistance and high armor
Vampire Counts: lots of dispel dice, and disposable zombies
Demons: high MR on lots of units.

reds8n wrote:

TBD wrote:Do you know that for sure?

I am about as sure as I was over the cardboard tiles in Hulk that clanrats will not be in boxes of 10.

..set myself up for a fall now eh ?

If you say it then it has to be so. You've got a most reliable track record and without all the cryptic BS of those other people who claim this and that.

Nice, nice rats... nice indeed they are, my love.

Now, I need a driver and a second gunner for the heist I'm planning. Any volunteers?

TBD wrote:

njpc wrote:The army doesn't need a nerf, its a rank and flank army, its easy to beat if you've ever played skaven yourself competitively. Knowing its strengths and weaknesses are keep. Its not like its going to beat you with a frontal charge at str 3..

I thought with this army it was mainly the magic and shooting that could be particularly tricky and nasty?

I'm not very familiar with Skaven though, so I could be wrong.

I dont know about magic ( i only use warplock engineers ) lots of dispell dice, decent pew pew during magic.

But yes i agree with the shooting , no matter how strong your unit is , if they get tar pitted by slaves or clan rats, they'll die. ( especially if there is 6 rattling guns waiting -_-)

And yes i love the new clan rats , they are very sharp looking , makes the current one obsolete . Which is ok too! they'll be demoted into slaves !

I dont mind the big head , i imagine them to be able to bite like a dog with rabies.

dumbuket wrote:Not liking the huge-headed hunchback thing. They look like dog-men.

Have you looked at the current clan rats?

Yeah. It's hunched over monkey men vs these new hunchbacked dog-men. Why can't they just bring back the 80's goodwin skaven in plastic?

I really like them, if you look at the proportions of real rats the heads are quite big too, Also they look a lot more dirty n ratty which works, I just hope they redesign the whole lot so there are not 2 strains of skaven (like we currently have with 40k orks, the buggy ork strain then the rest).

Wait wait , they look like dogmen? ( not sure if they do or not )

BUT if they do , isnt that just as good?

I was under the impression most people love Kobolds!

woot! paint them up blue!

I'm assuming that this little preview is the start of a multi-month combined advertising campaign through WD and their website that will, until its release in Nov/Dec, show us the new units, how the army works, some sample army lists and rules, plus a full listing of all the new releases.

Y'know, like every other games company does wit their upcoming products.

No...?

reds8n wrote:I am about as sure as I was over the cardboard tiles in Hulk that clanrats will not be in boxes of 10.

Yes, they come in a box of 5 at half the cost of a box of Goldswords. 40K gets one squad per box and now Fantasy gets one rank.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yes, they come in a box of 5 at half the cost of a box of Goldswords. 40K gets one squad per box and now Fantasy gets one rank.

lets guess how many clan rats per box , and for how much.

Im guessing 20 , with price increase...

My moneys on £15 for 20 clan rats.

I would suggest looking at the current prices of boxes of plastic core choice infantry...

fitzeh wrote:I would suggest looking at the current prices of boxes of plastic core choice infantry...

That didnt stop price hikes for example like IG battalion .

Cheers Red, good to see any news. Like the new plastics, and let me say now it's going to be weird seeing skaven armies in the gaming scene again

- Salvage

I like the concept of Rat ogre ALOT ,

but i was very dissapointed by the plastic box set
( i mean the contents were great so much goodies )

But the rat ogre sculpt itself ( mainly the arm attachment areas ) need some work.

I wonder what new units they are adding / redoing.

More poison globes?

LunaHound wrote:
But the rat ogre sculpt itself ( mainly the arm attachment areas ) need some work.

It's hard to think of another kit where you have to do as much GS work to make it look decent. The spawn kit is close, but then GSing spawny things is expected

- Salvage

Boss_Salvage wrote:

LunaHound wrote:
But the rat ogre sculpt itself ( mainly the arm attachment areas ) need some work.

It's hard to think of another kit where you have to do as much GS work to make it look decent. The spawn kit is close, but then GSing spawny things is expected

- Salvage

I wonder if the problem for the obvious joint areas can be solved if they include some sort of...
extra fur , extra rags that fit the area , and is able to cover it up alittle. ( but chances of new rat ogre box set is very low right? :x )

fitzeh wrote:I would suggest looking at the current prices of boxes of plastic core choice infantry...

So $35 for a number between 12 and 16 or $22 for 10.

I would be sad if they arnt packaged in 20s :/

No they'll package them in numbers not divisable by 5 because they're a bunch of pricks. Expect 16-man (man?) Clanrat boxes.

Hmm! With a little bit of GS work on my spare Empire heads, these might make great Psyker Squaddies!

Something about the length of the legs puts me off. Mark me down for "Wait and see in person", as I've wanted to do a proper Skaven horde(instead of just Eshin) for a while.

H.B.M.C. wrote:No they'll package them in numbers not divisable by 5 because they're a bunch of pricks. Expect 16-man (man?) Clanrat boxes.

hmm... guess that might encourage people to by atleast 3 boxes for total of 48 rats.

split into 2 groups of 24 , 6x4 ranks.

If the heads are seperate they'll make great genestealer cultists.

The Noisome Hrud will be coming in waves when these babies hit the shelves. Awesome.

Must say, the quality of the basic plastics are going up, up, up. Once the monkeydogs are gone, it's only the Catachans and the Deldar that will be unsalvageably atrocious.

I do wonder whether the Clanrat set will be easily divisible into slave-looking (more raggy) models and line-trooper-looking (more armored) models. Hope so. Equal numbers of both would be nice.

And given the number of troops that the army needs, even $35-40 for 20 models would be way too expensive. Sadly, that's probably what we'll see. I would be surprised if it was actually as low as 15-16 models per box, though.

Hate to go against Red, but it's going to be 10 for $22. Skeletons are 10 for $22 as are Ghouls, Empire State Troops, Crossbowmen and Bloodletters. All some of the most recent troops and all are 10 for $22.

woah i only just saw this thread
finally an update for skaven its been a lonf time coming right?
and with those new models for clanrats themselves you could use the elder ones as storm vermin. And therefore not pay hundreds on metal models woot. That is unless storm vermin come out in plastic.
OOOOO.... what about rattling guns and warp throwers in one kit -plastic-
awwww this is all too good xD
GW would reach a new low if they put a horde army in boxes of 10. We know they lost it if that happens

ahh crap now im gonna have to go back to fantasy again, my money is once again going to be spent on overpriced plastic figurines. The wew clanrats look very very good I wonder what else they are doing in plastic and I hope they do plastic stormvermin.

Do we get DOOMWHEELS?

Cheese Elemental wrote:Do we get DOOMWHEELS?

You want to ride one dont ya !

Then he'll become a Cheese Wheel Elemental, and that's just a scary thought.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Then he'll become a Cheese Wheel Elemental, and that's just a scary thought.

Sounds delicious though, thought clearly not the best choice around rats.

While we're on the topic of Skaven, let me ask something quickly.

When I first started with GW products back in the long long ago before I even hit my teenage years, Skaven had something called a 'Vermin Lord' or somesuch. It was basically a Greater Daemon of Skaven or something. Now I never paid much attention to Fantasy back then and even for a long time after, so I didn't notice when it was finally removed from the game.

What was that thing, and could it ever come back?

I just hope the clanrats are easier to put together now.

Even though my list has pretty much been set for years now and will likely never change.

Only thing I remember about a Vermin Lord was that he was a match for a Greater Daemon of Khorne and gave the army LD 10. I also believe he weighed in at 600 pts.

I hope something like that makes a comeback. I always pictured Skaven as being a bit like Tyranids in terms of gameplay, with hordes of little guys backed up by huge scary monsters.

The one on the far right looks semi-feline. However, these are MUCH better than the older ones and I am very, very excited to see what else is coming.

H.B.M.C. wrote:No they'll package them in numbers not divisable by 5 because they're a bunch of pricks. Expect 16-man (man?) Clanrat boxes.

Never have I seen a more true comment on dakka.

I like the sculpts.

But I'm doing a O&G army as my horde army, so I won't be buying them.

And you would always run them 5 wide as they are lame fighters and you want them for rank bonus only.

H.B.M.C. wrote:While we're on the topic of Skaven, let me ask something quickly.

When I first started with GW products back in the long long ago before I even hit my teenage years, Skaven had something called a 'Vermin Lord' or somesuch. It was basically a Greater Daemon of Skaven or something. Now I never paid much attention to Fantasy back then and even for a long time after, so I didn't notice when it was finally removed from the game.

What was that thing, and could it ever come back?

That "thing" was indeed a Vermin Lord, and it has already been back! I'm not sure if it's still there, but after the release of the current version of Warhammer Armies:Skaven, GW released a pdf that reintroduced both the Doom Wheel and the Verminlord for "the latest version of Warhammer." Vermin Lords are apparently thought to be daemonic forms of ancient Lords of Decay, warped by the Horned Rat into immortal servants of his. They have/had Daemonic instability, cause terror, are Level 4 Wizards, etc. all at a cost of 650pts.

I remember some rumours a waaaaaays back saying the Vermin Lord might make a reappearance into the Skaven book, but I won't be surprised if it doesn't...

-Vilegrimm

Those new Clanrats look fantastic compared to the old ones, and considering it was the absolutely shockingly bad quality of Clandogs that led to me quitting WFB forever...

I will resist. My budget can't support 40K AND WFB

Don't like 'em. Too hunchbacked, too monopose. Getting the tails of the current modelsto rank up was a pain, but these look terrible.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

The Vermin Lord would make a great special character. Doomwheel is kinda funny, but I could see it.

Skaven need the Doomwheel just like they need the Screaming Bell. They need to have their big nasties because otherwise they won't have any. It's not like they have the Great Winged Dragon Rat is it?

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:No they'll package them in numbers not divisable by 5 because they're a bunch of pricks. Expect 16-man (man?) Clanrat boxes.

Never have I seen a more true comment on dakka.

Except it's ridiculous hyperbole and obviously untrue because all the boxes that are of 16 or 8 models are from the last edition when ranks were 4 wide and all of the plastic kits that have been made since the new edition came out have been 5, 10 or 20 strong.

xowainx wrote:Except it's ridiculous hyperbole and obviously untrue because all the boxes that are of 16 or 8 models are from the last edition when ranks were 4 wide and all of the plastic kits that have been made since the new edition came out have been 5, 10 or 20 strong.

Soon as you get a chance book yourself in for a full mechanical service. I think your sense of humour might be damaged or something. Best to get it looked at.

There's nothing about your original comment that is at all different to the average level of hostility shown towards GW in threads on Dakka, so I don't see where the "humour" in your post lies, unless you're 13 and still find calling people "pricks" uncontrollably hilarious.

Saying "Ok, I'll get it looked at." would've been quicker.

I think they look good, they put me in mind of the old Jes G range that first made me love skaven. If they were more reasonably priced I would buy an army of these no probs.

Im just glad that it seems like they'll be able to line up better.

No random shield arm sticking out , no tails sticking out.

They arnt the best looking models either no. But I think people just forgot what the current ones look like which is waaaaaaaaaay worse.

Maybe they'll do those Poison Wind Globadier guys in plastic in a new box of 10 for the same price as the Goldswords.

If that's the case, then I'm coining the nickname "Golden Globes" right now!!

H.B.M.C. wrote:Maybe they'll do those Poison Wind Globadier guys in plastic in a new box of 10 for the same price as the Goldswords.

If that's the case, then I'm coining the nickname "Golden Globes" right now!!

We need:

Plastic Jezzails ( i always wanted 20 of these )
New Censor Bearers ( current edition is even worse looking then previous edition )
New plastic Rat Ogres (redone and hopefully comes in 3s )
Poison Globes: ( if they are to be charged ... $55 plastic ? i hope they get really detailed back packs ) and lots of gas mask heads.
Storm Vermin : The champion clan rat already looks suitable as storm vermin , having hard time picturing them different.

Also either screaming bell or cheese wheel redone in plastic , and the ability to field in multiples ( same way as stegadons )

Don't expect everything in plastic Luna. They'll be getting a new core choice, they won't redo the Rat Ogres (they are already plastic), and maybe another regiment style box, perhaps a Sorcerer/Leader plastic box (unless they've stopped making those cool HQ boxes), and maybe a monster and/or chariot style (hopefully the Bell and the Wheel).

And then a second wave that has an Elite unit in it, or maybe two plastic kits - Golden Globes and something else. Depends really on how 'big' the units are. How many Censor Bearers show up in a unit? Globes? Are these big swarm units, or smaller elite specialist units?

I'm only asking because I know little about how Skaven are organised.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Don't expect everything in plastic Luna. They'll be getting a new core choice, they won't redo the Rat Ogres (they are already plastic), and maybe another regiment style box, perhaps a Sorcerer/Leader plastic box (unless they've stopped making those cool HQ boxes), and maybe a monster and/or chariot style (hopefully the Bell and the Wheel).

And then a second wave that has an Elite unit in it, or maybe two plastic kits - Golden Globes and something else. Depends really on how 'big' the units are. How many Censor Bearers show up in a unit? Globes? Are these big swarm units, or smaller elite specialist units?

I'm only asking because I know little about how Skaven are organised.

The censor bearer is Rare / size 5-10 / Disciple unit of plague monks
Poison Globadiers surprisingly ... CORE TROOP: / 2-10 / Skirmishers.

( i know the chance of rat ogre redone is pretty much impossible ... skaven arnt the most popular army anyways -_- )
Just unfortunate they are my favorite part of skaven , and i ended up not getting a single one.

LunaHound wrote:The censor bearer is Rare / size 5-10 / Disciple unit of plague monks
Poison Globadiers surprisingly ... CORE TROOP: / 2-10 / Skirmishers.

Core Troops hey? I was kinda hoping they'd be a super-elite rare unit so my dream of being the first to call them 'Golden Globes' could come true, but I digress. I can see new metal models (5 box and 5 w/Command box) for the Censor guys. You can't buy enough of them for them to be worth it in plastic. Plus I can't think of anything clever that links 'Gold' and 'Censor' or 'Bearer'.

LunaHound wrote:( i know the chance of rat ogre redone is pretty much impossible ... skaven arnt the most popular army anyways -_- )
Just unfortunate they are my favorite part of skaven , and i ended up not getting a single one.

What don't you like about them? I'm thinking of picking up a single box, not because I play Skaven but because a pair of Rat Ogres, some Giant Rats and some slaver-y dude would be fantasitc for Warhammer Quest.



Ok, just checked the GW site. Nightrunners will get redone for sure. They've got even bigger hands than the fething Clanrats, so they'll do away with those two abomination kits for sure. New plastic Warpfire Thrower Cannon I'd think, as they have a thing for plastic artillery at the moment. And Censor Bearers could be another.

This speculation would be a hell of lot easier if GW did actual fething previews rather than keeping us in the dark about everything.

I dont like the plastic rat ogre's beefy armpit / joints , it look too obvious like a cheap mcdonalds happy meal toy.
( the old one metal conveyed the brutal mutilation of rat ogres really well , stapled skin , chopped off stomp replaced with drills etc etc )

Censor bearer and globedier i was hoping they would change their rules . Almost no one took Censors. ( warp lightening is better in every way )

Plastic Night runners? I love the current ones >.>
they come with so many different weapons and heads the unit of 20 look almost unique ( and no i dont mind the arm and head lol , they can look cute )

Warp fire cannon need new model its out dated ( but ratling gun is too good i dont see any reason to take warp fire ) unless gun gets nerfed ...

The reason I say Night Runners is because if they're not replaced there will be this gulf of representation in both core troop units - one unit will have nice new well proportioned models, the other will have jazz hands.

It'll be Catachans vs Cadians all over again.

If Globadiers do come out in plastic, I predict bits sellers will do brisk business.

The clanrats pictured looks to have options for armor. Either for clanrats/slaves or clanish clanrats. Of course thats a lot of speculation for just three models. A new Verminlord and the ability to be all Pestilens would bump rats up further on my next army list.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Saying "Ok, I'll get it looked at." would've been quicker.

And humorous, yet as you pointed out he needs that bit fixed.

On topic how ever, those models look good for rats and eventually I may find a use for them.

H.B.M.C. wrote:


Ok, just checked the GW site. Nightrunners will get redone for sure. They've got even bigger hands than the fething Clanrats, so they'll do away with those two abomination kits for sure. New plastic Warpfire Thrower Cannon I'd think, as they have a thing for plastic artillery at the moment. And Censor Bearers could be another.

This speculation would be a hell of lot easier if GW did actual fething previews rather than keeping us in the dark about everything.

AFAIK, alas, incorrect on all accounts, with the possible exception of the NIghtrunners... but they might just be repackaged I guess.

Plastic clanrats/slaves box set
Doomwheel
Screaming bell, which also makes some otehr warmachine.. a warpstone cataplu or throweer or somehting I believe from hints dropped by the ever reliable Mr. Hastings on Warseer.
New character models in metal..... one of which is the assassin guy... deathmaster...errr...sniktch or something ?

I keep hearing rumours about another plastic kit still though, so let's keep them crossed !

Well I did also say:

"They'll be getting a new core choice... and maybe another regiment style box... and maybe a monster and/or chariot style (hopefully the Bell and the Wheel)."

Which matches with your Clanrat/Slaverat, other plastic infantry regiment kit, Doomwheel, Screaming Bell confirmations.

....there's perhaps a moral here about doing X things at once.

apologies.

reds8n wrote:....there's perhaps a moral here about doing X things at once.

apologies.

reds8n - any hints of the Vermin Lord returning to 'official' status (i.e., in the book)?

There was talk a while back but the current scuttlebutt says "nay".

That is entriely going off of what other rumour ninjas are saying, but that feels right to my GW "spider sense".

If you dig Skaven you should read "Grey Seer" btw, it's very good.

So CL Werner finally did a good novel again? I found his two chaos novels rather bad, very bad when compared to Brunner and his Witch Hunter trilogy.

I liked the first one of those, the Nurgle one. It had a proper old school RoC era feel to it. The Khorne though bored me to tears nearly. Grey Seer is fun though, Thanquol is entertaining and it just works. A fair few old references too -- fake "magnin" throwing knife and a reference to Kweethul ( sp?) from the old LatD book too.

I did a review of it here if it helps.

I prefered it to the Witch Hunter trilogy, but i was reading that in omnibus format and sometimes that can be a bit too much, you know ?

Shame about the Vermin Lord, though I guess GW doesn't want Skaven to have a bad-ass name taker in HTH and instead keep the SAFH thing alive?

That plus static combat resolution via gigundo slave blocks?

Perhaps.

I would say that the idea also muddies the line between them and the "regular" (for want of a better word) chaos gys and gals a bit too and generally of late one of the goals has always been to try and give each army its own theme and flavour and make it a distinct entity in itself.

..but GW seem to change design ideas and goals every third book anyway, so best bet is that this will be a new retro forwards homage tastic brand new themed one.

I would say that one of the ideas of the book from what I have heard is definately to enable players to construct more than one style or build of army, so I don't think players will be forced to only build horde type armies.

.. as to how effective all these builds will be ....

Maybe it's just me but is anyone picking up similarities or just a look-a-like feel between the District 9 aliens and these skaven?

I bought a Doom Wheel a super long time ago, but it sucks I can't really use it with the newest Codex since it isn't listed. :_(

I own 2 Doom Wheels and a Verminlord, my friends have been happy to let me try them out.

From my experience a Doom Wheel is a mixed bag, its fast because of its movement, but its tricky to use and and dies really easily. That being said, its fun. If it crashes the flank of a unit it can usually break them. The model is eh, not great, but do able. Many converted/ home builds turn out great.

The Verminlord for his points is simply not worth it in a skaven game under 3k, probably with him... he cannot join units, bonus is your units will almost ALWAYS be leadership 10, based on his base leadership, then rank bonus, minus combat res... your almost always over 9-10, its silly really, but fun. He's also a target, dies super easy, and not overwhelming in the magic phase, he's not really a combat monster, because his attacks aren't that high. Again fun to use, but not all that.

The PDF's that were realized 5 years ago even say by opponents consent, the PDF's were never meant to be issued as a add on to the army book, they were just fun stuff to try. Just like the former special characters PDF's: Ikit Claw, Snitch (who did get re-intro'd in a white dwarf during storm of chase), Plague Lord, and Warlord Squek the headtaker. All fun to use, i only like Ikit and the Plague Lord, who are REALLY good and a bargain for their points.

Must....Buy uhg and I just got out of fatansy!

EVERYTIME YOU GET OUT THEY PULL YOU RIGHT BACK IN!!!

You wouldn't happen to have that PDF for the Doomwheel or a link to it?

I googled it with no luck.

Da Blak Gobbo wrote:Maybe it's just me but is anyone picking up similarities or just a look-a-like feel between the District 9 aliens and these skaven?

no Skaven are ratlike and the D9 Prawns are like big crickets, they are both hunched though..thats the only similarity I can think of.

Oh my God, Skaven actually look... cool? Does not compute.

If the Vermin Lord were a Giant-equivalent Special Monster that cannot be the Army General, that'd probably work just fine in terms of army balance and theme.

Sooooo looking forward to this. Because Empire and VC weren't big enough horde armies for me to play...

I read some chatter on on Something Awful to the effect that Skaven were losing the Warp-Lightning cannon for the Doomwheel. It doesn't sound very plausible, but it's another thing to worry about.

Most interestingly (to me) is that the new plastics appear smaller then the current range. This happened with the new skeletons as well. Smaller, more detailed plastics. I'm quite alright with that if it means fitting more on the sprue!

And not looking like dogfaced chimps. That's important.

I prefer to think of the current clanrats as 'cartoony'. They're what? A full decade old or close to it. They were out before the current Skaven army book, which itself is 7+ years old.

The Crippler wrote:Most interestingly (to me) is that the new plastics appear smaller then the current range. This happened with the new skeletons as well. Smaller, more detailed plastics. I'm quite alright with that if it means fitting more on the sprue!

They are smaller. One of the things that has concerned the design team for a few years was the scale creep for certain models/ranges. To get round this they made a series of master models or "dollies" as I believe they are called for most/all of the races showing the correct scale. All new models have to be in line with these new masters, so the skellies are small enough to actually fit inside a human, the goblins got smaller and these skaven and the other plastic stormvermin kit will be similarly scaled.

Big shout out to Mr. Harry from Warseer for the original scale explanation.

reds8n wrote:

The Crippler wrote:Most interestingly (to me) is that the new plastics appear smaller then the current range. This happened with the new skeletons as well. Smaller, more detailed plastics. I'm quite alright with that if it means fitting more on the sprue!

They are smaller. One of the things that has concerned the design team for a few years was the scale creep for certain models/ranges. To get round this they made a series of master models or "dollies" as I believe they are called for most/all of the races showing the correct scale. All new models have to be in line with these new masters, so the skellies are small enough to actually fit inside a human, the goblins got smaller and these skaven and the other plastic stormvermin kit will be similarly scaled.

About time! The model sizes were just getting stupid. When *everything* is "heroic", *nothing* is "heroic".

All I have to say on the matter, is SQUEAK!

And what a time to be applying for a one day a week part time position! KERCHING!

Damn, I'm going to have to buy more rats.

I guess the current monkeys can be used as slaves or something.

Also please let the Vermin Lord be in this book. I need a big centerpiece that's not as likely to kill my Grey Seer.

Okay, I've been out of WHFB for a few years (since Cavatore murdered all light-infantry armies by nerfing skimishers grumble grumble), but...

...couldn't you just field DOW units and "counts as" them to be the Vermin Lord etc.? Like a Giant, or that Elf on Dragon, etc.? And is there a Steamtank DOW unit? That would certainly make a decent rules-base for a Doomwheel.

And thanks for the explanation on the scale-creep correction, s8n. Is that confined to the WHFB range? Haven't seen much evidence of such control in 40K- would've been nice to have more realistic Guardsmen.

The Vermin Lord could "count as" a Giant, but not being winged or Flyijng, counting as an Elf Hero on Dragon is quite a bit of a stretch.

DoW don't have anything close to a Steamtank or Doomwheel at all, which is odd, considering the inspiration of Miragliano...

Vengis wrote:

Also please let the Vermin Lord be in this book.

Hmm... it would seem you might be a happy bunny after all.

I hate those new models.

Never mind Doom Wheels, they need a revamp, Giant Spiky Hamsterballs anyone?

JohnHwangDD wrote:The Vermin Lord could "count as" a Giant, but not being winged or Flyijng, counting as an Elf Hero on Dragon is quite a bit of a stretch.

DoW don't have anything close to a Steamtank or Doomwheel at all, which is odd, considering the inspiration of Miragliano...

Don't worry John, if you want a Steamtank or Doomwheel for your Dogs of War, you can always use 'counts-as'.

I suppose we don't know whether the heads on these little guys are sepatate, huh? I would love to put some Pig Iron heads on these and use them as cultists.

I am really pleased to hear that GW is trying to reign in scale. The Primaris Psyker being SM size really irks me.

To clarify AFAIK the scale alterations are, currently, restricted to the WFB line.

..not least, I'd imagine, as rendering the entire marine model range invalid would cause THE END OF THE INTERNET

..meanwhile...

From the GW site

If you're subscribed to our newsletter you'll know that the Skaven are coming this November.

The Skaven plot and scheme the demise of other races while dreaming of their own rise to power. Epitomising the theory that quantity is a quality all of its own; a Skaven army will generally outnumber its foe at least two-to-one. As a Skaven player you can command tens of regiments each 30 or 40 strong, and throw them against the foe with wanton abandon - while practising your maniacal laugh. Another hallmark of Skaven armies are their impressive war machines, which are a stark contrast to the numberless horde of ratmen, and make for striking centrepieces to an army. One of the best things about the new Skaven army book is that it allows you greater flexibility than ever before: allowing you to field an army based around any of the infamous Skaven clans

reds8n wrote: To clarify AFAIK the scale alterations are, currently, restricted to the WFB line.

Shame, the imp guard could do with this to halt them growing larger than the space marines. Than allow the size creep to continue for space marines until they reach truescale.

Yea, that is a bummer. At least it is a step in the right direction though.
I was personally dearly hoping that the new Marine line would go to true-scale. Maybe for the next codex they will start releasing Marine squads in true scale, and let everyone update as they see fit.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

reds8n wrote: To clarify AFAIK the scale alterations are, currently, restricted to the WFB line.

Shame, the imp guard could do with this to halt them growing larger than the space marines. Than allow the size creep to continue for space marines until they reach truescale.

Absolutely!

True-Scale Marines would be what we have now if they could have controlled that mess!

On Topic, any word on how Ratling Guns and Warplock Engineers will be reigned in?

I'm guessing having to determine how many dice are used FIRST (not as you go) and then for the Engineers... I have no idea.

The easiest "fix" for the 40k scale problem would be to simply shrink IG back to the 2E metal Guardsman size (Praetorian / Mordian / Tallarn). It's the stupid Catachans (and Cadians, to a somewhat lesser extent). Then at least Marines and Orks will be "heroically" large compared to Guardsmen.

As a Skaven player you can command tens of regiments each 30 or 40 strong...

(Emphasis is mine)

Tens of regiments? Okay, that implies that you'll be field at least ten regiments of 30-40 rats - we're talking a minimum of 300-400 model armies? Minimum? You're kidding right? And folks complain that foot-slogging orks in 40k take all day to play. I mean, I know in WHFB you can use movement trays, but geez, seriously?

2000 pts at 3-4 pts /model = 500-600 models possible...

GW wins because they sell boatloads of models.

I win because I'm going to figure out a way to use those models in 40k for either a Hrud army or LaTD.

MOAR PICS PLEASE!

JohnHwangDD wrote:2000 pts at 3-4 pts /model = 500-600 models possible...

If you took no heroes, and felt like losing every game.

I'm hoping that quote is for Mighty Empires or something similar.

Skaven armies have always been crazy sized, I certainly remember agreeing to waive the table edge borders for deployment for my old housemate back in 98 on an 8ft table with 3k a side.

I wish the clanrats had the look and proportions of the current skaven assassin minis

I'm excited to see whether or not the newer fantasy armies continue to be either ridiculously powerful or ridiculously weak. The skaven were already powerful, but I suppose I want to see if multiple builds are possible with the new codex.

Although I guess who writes it will influence whether it sucks or takes names.

I just want Clan Eshin to be as viable as Clan Skryre

chaplaingrabthar wrote:I just want Clan Eshin to be as viable as Clan Skryre

And I want Alpha Legion to be as viable as Black Legion, but sometimes you don't get what you want and GW takes away all your options and armies.

Look what they did to Vampire Counts as far as the various blood-lines go. They're gone. That's not to say the army book is bad or what it was replaced with was bad, but I just don't see the separate army thing ever coming back to a GW product.

Unless there's a special character (ie. a model they can sell) for that purpose.

Well...scuttlebutt is there are a lot of Lord options, more Lords than heroes due to special characters. So I'm thinking there might be a lot of build variety in this book.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

chaplaingrabthar wrote:I just want Clan Eshin to be as viable as Clan Skryre

And I want Alpha Legion to be as viable as Black Legion, but sometimes you don't get what you want and GW takes away all your options and armies

Well, yes. We all know GW has a checkered history there, and everybody but 1 poster here recognizes that the current Chaos Codex is a gigantic pile of gak.

Look what they did to Vampire Counts as far as the various blood-lines go. They're gone. That's not to say the army book is bad or what it was replaced with was bad, but I just don't see the separate army thing ever coming back to a GW product.

Unless there's a special character (ie. a model they can sell) for that purpose.

Meh. I'm still pissed about Vampire Counts even existing as a separate army. I preferred the unified Undead of WFB4 (My very first non-40K army)

Hey hey hey, boys and girls! Heres a piccy of the new book cover:

Looks same as the other Skaven cover posted.

Do you mean on another thread? I can't find it on this one, John .

Yeah, there's a thread for new Skaven cover.

JohnHwangDD wrote:The easiest "fix" for the 40k scale problem would be to simply shrink IG back to the 2E metal Guardsman size (Praetorian / Mordian / Tallarn). It's the stupid Catachans (and Cadians, to a somewhat lesser extent). Then at least Marines and Orks will be "heroically" large compared to Guardsmen.

Don't forget the Vostroyans. They are huge compared to my valhallans.

Ah, I see it know. Sorry, should have looked around first. I guess I'm just not that bright .

Frazzled wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:The easiest "fix" for the 40k scale problem would be to simply shrink IG back to the 2E metal Guardsman size (Praetorian / Mordian / Tallarn). It's the stupid Catachans (and Cadians, to a somewhat lesser extent). Then at least Marines and Orks will be "heroically" large compared to Guardsmen.

Don't forget the Vostroyans. They are huge compared to my valhallans.

Big Furry Hats, amirite?

Well I do agree that marines should be halfway the size between an Ogryn and and a guardsman.

take a close look at the cover. Qweek is back, warp fire thrower, (wonder whats going to happen to the ratling gun) screaming bell in the background.... it gives alot away, but what has me intrested is that huge thing in the background that looks like a giant rat ogre. a while back Moulder was working on something like that mentioned in a flavor text from Lustria.

all in all, intresting.

We get our Skaven Black Box early October, so though I won't put up direct info, I'll be happy to rubbish/confirm the various rumours.

No stats, no points, just info.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Look what they did to Vampire Counts as far as the various blood-lines go.

Or Daemons. If Skaven go the way of Daemons, we might wind up seeing Plague Warlock Engineers goodness, or a Grey Seer Moulder Beastmaster of Eshin (well, power-gaming wise, not fluff-wise).

Unless there's a special character (ie. a model they can sell) for that purpose.

I predict a lot of Hero-level Skaven Characters. Assassins, if I had to guess, will wind up like their Dark Elf counterparts. For standard characters we either keep Warlock Engineer, Moulder, etc., or everything turns "Chieftain" with something like "Clan Points" to put into powers / wargear (At +15 points clan moulder units may use the chieftain's leadership, at +25 the chieftain gains +1 Toughness and Frenzy, but loses 1 Initiative, etc). Special characters allow you to change what can count as mainstay (if mainstay remains as a rule), or provide certain buffs to specific units.

All of this is pure speculation, but it wouldn't surprise me if something similar happened.

Hawkins wrote: (wonder whats going to happen to the ratling gun)

Going to dread saying it, but... something like a Leadbelcher? I don't predict they're going to keep it as a weapon that auto-hits and can roll one-die-at-a-time.


EDIT: Doc, do Skaven have lots of special character heroes?

Minsc wrote:do Skaven have lots of special character heroes?

They generally have a special char for each of the clans , so yes.

LunaHound wrote:

Minsc wrote:do Skaven have lots of special character heroes?

They generally have a special char for each of the clans , so yes.

My interest is in Hero instead of Lord level. Want to know if you can field Clan Eshin at under 2K points, or Clan Pestilens, Clan Skyre, Clan Moulder, etc. Not "Oh yeah you can be Moulder, but only in larger games."

Why can't you be of a particular Clan without needing GW to spoon-feed you the rules?

LOL I'm imagining JohnHwangDD as a pirate on the Black Pearl saying "Well its more of a guideline really" Garr!

I suppose when you are choosing to pay to play a game with a rule set and a company is making said rules, that you'd expect some sort of boundaries to clearly define an extent. I.e. everything listed falls within clan eshin etc.

The problems with people playing a competative game and having viable options means you have to fall back on the rules as they determine viability.

I won't collect a skaven army (simply waaaaaay too much shelf space required) but I'll buy the army book to have a read as I enjoyed the last one and hope they'll make a good job of this one.

I'm interested to see how masses of averageness will be balanced against the supposed masses of awesomeness that the DOC have brought to the game recently.

It's a game, so one imagines that a bit of imagination is required.

Greetings.
I am new to dakka but have been a regular viewer of the site.

Here's a summary of all the Skaven news upto date. (Warning; Long post)


"The new Skaven army book is due the 7th of November 2009 and is written by Jeremy Vetock. It will be the second and last army book in 2009 (sadly).

Remember that an absence of rumours is not a rumour of absence. Just because there are no rumours on your favourite unit or character doesn't mean that it won't be in the army book.



New models:
There are four new boxes, plus some metal models and probably some repackaged old stuff.

Clanrats / Slaves
- plastic box of 20 for £20
- concept sketches by Jes Goodwin and Brian Nelson
- wear tattered robes and armour somewhat similar to LotR moria goblins
- the box does not contain parts to make weapon teams

Stormvermin
- plastic box of 20 for £30

Doomwheel
- plastic box of 1 for £20
- smaller than the old version to make it fit on a chariot base

Screaming Bell / Plague Furnace / Plagueclaw Catapult
- plastic box, makes one of the three for £35
- the bell variant comes with part of the church still attached
- the furnace variant comes with sculpted plastic smoke

Deathmaster Snitch
- metal blister of 1
- jumping off a piece of scenery with a dagger in each hand (we will all be disappointed if he does not also have one in the tail)

Queek Head-taker
- metal blister of 1
- has a rat ogre skeleton on his trophy rack

Unknown other models

Battalion Box
-unknown contents, but presumably both clanrats and stormvermin will be in it


Things that are apparently being phased out (if you look at Maelstrom, for example)
- Stormvermin (new plastic box)
- Gutter Runner blisters (repackaged in boxes of 5)?
- Censer Bearer blisters (repackaged in boxes of 5)?
- Grey Seer on Screaming Bell (new plastic box)
- Assassins (resculpt?)
- Plague Lords (resculpt?)
- Warpfire Thrower (resculpt?)
- Warplightning Cannon (resculpt?)
- Rat Swarms (unknown)



Army list structure
Judging by all recent army books, there will be ONE and only one army list, i.e. no variant list for a Clan Pestilence or Clan Moulder or anything like that. HOWEVER, the army list is most likely going to be less restrictive than now, making it easier to play a Clan Pestilence or Clan Moulder list using the main army list. This might be done by moving certain units (e.g. Plague Monks) to Core, or it might be done by having special characters that alter the army list if chosen (i.e. Nurglitch or Skrolk might let you take Plague Monks as Core). Note that we don't know anything about this yet, though it has been suggested by multiple sources that the Mainstay mechanic is gone.


Army special rules
It has been suggested that Skaven might get an additional +1 CR for outnumbering (for a total of +2), but nothing definite.
The other army special rules (Lead from the Rear, Strength in Numbers, etc) seem to be mostly staying, but might be tweaked somewhat. For example the Life is Cheap rule apparently only applies to Slaves, so you can't shoot into combat if any of your other units are involved.


Magic
- There are supposedly two spell lists, one for Skryre and one for Pestilence. Warlock Engineers get spells from one lists while Plague Priests get spells from the other. - Grey Seers can apparently choose which list to use and can mix (so if they roll a 1, 2, 3 and 5, they can get the first and fifth spell from the Skryre list and the second and third from the Pestilence list, or some other mix)
- There is supposedly also a basic spell in addition to these, giving a total of 13 spells
- miscast is supposedly back to being on double 6s like with any other army
- casters can supposedly consume any number of their warpstone tokens when casting spells

Skryre spells
Warp Lighting
- supposedly only D6 hits, though if you take the Warp-power Accumulator it adds +2 hits (a 1 is still one hit on the caster)


(name unknown)
- stops flying

(name unknown, might be the same spell as the previous)
- enemies get -1 BS

Curse of the Horned Rat
- 25+ to cast
- can only target US1 infantry
- turns 4D6 models in the unit into skaven



Lords
- there are no clan-specific Lord choices other than special characters

Warlord
- Mount options: Rat Ogre, Giant Rat or a War Litter

Grey Seer
- new plastic Screaming Bell presumably includes a plastic Grey Seer
- Leadership 7
- start with D3 Warpstone tokens
- Mount option: Screaming Bell


Heroes

Chieftain
- no news

Warlock Engineer
- are now more like a cross between wizards and engineers
- become more shooting-oriented than previously, can take a Warplock Musket with a special sight that allows him to snip models in units (presumably like an Empire Hochland Long Rifle)
- Warp-Power Accumulator is apparently an Arcane item (not know if it is unique or not) that only generates an extra Power Dice on a D6 roll of 5+, but adds +2 hits caused with the Warp Lighting spell (an unmodified 1 still does a hit on the Warlock)
- Mount options: Doomwheel?

Assassin
- apparently still a character and not a Core choice (unlike the Dark Elf ones)
- Always Strike First
- 4+ "dodge" Ward save

Plague Priest
- supposedly upgradeable to wizards (unknown how high level) without the Liber Bubonicus
- Mount options: Giant Rat or a Plague Furnace

Master Moulder
- now a unit upgrade for Giant Rat Packs and Rat Ogres rather than a character


Character mounts

Giant Rat (Warlord, Plague Priest...)
- presumably like the one being ridden by Nurglitch

Rat Ogre (Warlord...)

War Litter (Warlord...
- presumably much like a Palanquin of Nurgle in being a cavalry mount on a large base moving at infantry speed

Screaming Bell (Grey Seer)
- new plastic model

Plague Furnace (Plague Priest)
- made from same kit as the Screaming Bell
- apparently also pushed into battle, also causing impact hits
- gives a bonus to units around it (poison or frenzy, details unknown), while Pestilence units nearby get further bonuses (Hatred or Stubborn, details unknown)
- can supposedly cast bound spells (Plague?)

Doomwheel(?)
- given GWs previous policy of wanting to sell as many as possible of the new big plastic kits, you will be able to take the new plastic Doomwheels as mount options (for Warlock Engineers) similar to how Skink characters can take the new plastic Stegadons as mount options


Core

Clanrats
- new plastic box
- lose Mainstay rule, which allows you to take more of the other units without needing clanrats first. It appears that to compensate for this, other units are getting more limited (Night Runners become a block unit, Globadiers become Special, etc.)

Slaves
- made from the same plastic box as clanrats
- Life is Cheap now *only* applies to Slaves
- some rumours say they lose the option for slings, though that would be unlike GW as the current policy seems to be to not remove options they have previously made models for

Stormvermin
- new plastic box
- no longer 0-1
- one point cheaper with (apparently) the same stats, equipment and options
- may take a magic standard worth up to 50 pts, champion can get a magic item worth up to 15 pts

Night Runners
- no longer skirmish(!)
- special rule Slinking Advance gives them a free Move before the first turn (like Ghouls get if you have a Vampire with the Ghoulkin power)
- apparently same stats as now
- 2 points more expensive, but start off with two hand weapons and throwing stars
- can take a Warp Grinder weapon team (allowing them to tunnel)
- it is not known what the minimum unit size is

Giant Rat Pack
- one rumour said you could add Rat Ogres to this unit, but that appears to have been wishful thinking
- Master Moulder is now unit upgrade with 2 Wounds and Ld6, an option for a Things-catcher and quite probably other options as well. No magic items.

Rat Swarms
- presumably no longer 0-1
- cost almost halved


Weapon Teams
- it would appear that these function more or less as now (i.e. they can be targeted like any other unit), but if they are within a given (presumably short) range of their parent unit, they get a 4+ Ward save.

Ratling Gun
- presumably has to roll to hit

Warpfire Thrower
- no news

Poisoned Wind Mortar
- presumably something like a bigger Poison Wind Globadier

Doom Flayer
- close combat weapon team, possibly causing impact hits

Warp Grinder
- allows its unit to tunnel (details unknown)


Special units

Jezzails
- can get a BS 4 champion
- some rumours have said that they lose skirmish

Plague Monks
- don't appear to change much

Rat Ogres
- Frenzy
- cost 10 pts less than currently, but that is without a handler (who cost 8 pts, so if you get one handler per Rat Ogre you end up paying 2 pts less)
- can get champions who have +1 WS and +1 A
- can take a Master Moulder (see Giant Rat Packs)

Gutter Runners
- tunneling is now a weapon team (Warp Grinder) rather than a normal upgrade
- has a modified Scout rule (not details as to how it is different)
- 6+ "dodge" Ward save

Globadiers
- supposedly not getting new models yet
- unit size 5-15
- not known if they get altered rules
- may take a Poison Wind Mortar weapon team

Plague Censer Bearers
- get one extra Attack (so 3 while frenzied)


Rare

Warp Lightning Cannon
- getting a rework to make it more like a standard war machine
- no longer have to flee from charges (and there was much rejoicing!)
- fires like a normal cannon and with the 3" round template placed where the shot ends as well
- Strength still random, no armour save, D6 wounds
- Leadership 7

Doomwheel
- new plastic model
- supposedly generating impact hits depending on how far it charges

Plagueclaw Catapult
- stone thrower variant with 5" round template
- Strength 2, no armour saves allowed, units hit must take a Panic test if they take one or more wounds

Hell Pit Abomination
- big monster thingy
- Large Target, Terror
- Stubborn (unknown at what Ld)
- Strength, Toughness and Wounds like a Giant
- Moves 3D6" (has a special rule called Shambling Horror which sounds like the Lurching Horror rule Chaos Spawn have, and which deals with their movement)
- Regeneration (has a special rule called Too Horrible To Die, this might be it)
- has a rule called Warpstone Spikes which might be a random attack type, or impact hits (or both!)




Special characters

Thanquol & Boneripper (Grey Seer with Rat Ogre bodyguard)

Lord Skrolk (Pestilence Lord)

Ikit Claw (Skryre Lord)

Throt the Unclean (Moulder Lord)

Queek Head-Taker (Warlord)

Vermin Lord (Greater Rat Daemon)
- not a special character as such, but presumably you can't have more than one
- no new model for the time being, so use your old one
- very good stats
- 5+ Ward save
- level 4 wizard

Deathmaster Snikch (Eshin Hero)
- new metal model

Tretch (unknown)
- new character

some sort of upgrade champion model for Giant Rat Packs"
__________________


cheers.

lol @ poison wind mortar ....

That thing is made out of glass , i can imagining the crew all dead after firing one.

no new warp fire thrower? no new globadier? those things are ANCIENT

LunaHound wrote:no new warp fire thrower? no new globadier? those things are ANCIENT

Ancient, yes, but still some fantastic models!

Some things I dislike:

Night Runners are blocks? Really? So the only possible way to secure your flanks with skirmishers are a special choice?

Jezzails losing skirmish: A T3 model with a 4+ save base and one wound? Easier yet to kill: 8 Thunderer's at long range can drop 2-3 of them a turn and probably cause a panic check. Real minor complaint though, considering Rank-or-Skirmish, our Magic Missiles will sort out the snipers just as well.

Life is Cheap only for Slaves? Why? One of Skaven's most defining features just went out the window.

Irresistable Force only on double-sixes? Again, why? Two of Skaven's defining features are thrown out here. "We're going to make Dwarves... but now only one unit can be stubborn, and nothing hates Greenskins any more."

Things I like:

Lots of special characters, instead of what we currently have in the back of the Skaven book.

Things I wonder about:

Will things such as the Ratling Gun, Poisoned Weapons, etc. still count as magical?

Dude, those are rumours. Not facts.

Death By Monkeys wrote:

LunaHound wrote:no new warp fire thrower? no new globadier? those things are ANCIENT

Ancient, yes, but still some fantastic models!

True.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Dude, those are rumours. Not facts.

2x true.

Please complain when the army book is out. Al in all I like many of the changes suggested/rumored. The Master moulder riding ogres and a poison wind catapult were also my visions for new units for the skaven (sorry, that sounds pretty arrogant).

Maybe I invest the time and money to update my skaven army after all. My Eldar will kill m, though.

Greets
Schepp himself

Expect the Skaven book in-store preview copies next week...

Minsc wrote:Some things I dislike:

Night Runners are blocks? Really? So the only possible way to secure your flanks with skirmishers are a special choice?

Jezzails losing skirmish: A T3 model with a 4+ save base and one wound? Easier yet to kill: 8 Thunderer's at long range can drop 2-3 of them a turn and probably cause a panic check. Real minor complaint though, considering Rank-or-Skirmish, our Magic Missiles will sort out the snipers just as well.

Life is Cheap only for Slaves? Why? One of Skaven's most defining features just went out the window.

Irresistable Force only on double-sixes? Again, why? Two of Skaven's defining features are thrown out here. "We're going to make Dwarves... but now only one unit can be stubborn, and nothing hates Greenskins any more."

Things I like:

Lots of special characters, instead of what we currently have in the back of the Skaven book.

Things I wonder about:

Will things such as the Ratling Gun, Poisoned Weapons, etc. still count as magical?

On the Jezzails. They might lose skirmish but that won't make them easier to kill because they can't get the -1 to hit because they are unit str 2. Only works on unit str 1.

cheers.

Minsc wrote:
Jezzails losing skirmish: A T3 model with a 4+ save base and one wound? Easier yet to kill: 8 Thunderer's at long range can drop 2-3 of them a turn and probably cause a panic check. Real minor complaint though, considering Rank-or-Skirmish, our Magic Missiles will sort out the snipers just as well.

Not to mention the fact that Jezzails used to be ranked as well, so it's just going back to the way it used to be.

Thanks to Mr. Scarfester from the Underempire for more Blanche conversion snaps and new model pics.

Nice. Dirty and whimpy, justlike the (current) Artwork.

Greets
Schepp himself

i can see me buying the new clanrats to convert to Stormvermin. in yellow and black should go well with my existing rats



meet clan Qlu (or No Qlu as some call it )

Those pics are too blurry to make out what is new kit and what is a conversion. All except for that clanrat torso bolted on to Necron Warrior legs.

Hawkins wrote:i can see me buying the new clanrats to convert to Stormvermin.

..or you could just buy the new stormvermin models instead...

Railguns wrote:Those pics are too blurry to make out what is new kit and what is a conversion.

And that isn't appropriate for John Blanche's work in what way?

Yea, his stuff looks a lot better if you don't focus your eyes completely. Preferably after 5-10 drinks.

I didn't say that it wasn't appropriate now... IT just isn't the best picture to show what the new kit has. Honestly though, I'm really excited to see what comes of the Skaven release and may actually make the jump to fantasy if it comes out to my liking. (hoping skyre doesn't get nerf batted to impotence)

The globadiers and WFT are models that don't need upgrading. They are some of the best models still about.

Very much looking fwd to this one, i've always been a fan of the rats.

reds8n wrote:

Hawkins wrote:i can see me buying the new clanrats to convert to Stormvermin.

..or you could just buy the new stormvermin models instead...

Both probably, but im thinking convering would be fun with these.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1510420

Deathmaster Snikch


Packmaster Skweel Gnawtooth


Warlord Queek Headtaker:


Clanrats:


Doomwheel:


Stormvermin:

Storm vermin waaaaaaaaay too expensive

Those 2 special characters, BEST GW sculpt to date.

Finally am army worthy for me to update !

O-M-G

Nice, I especially like Snikch and the doomwheel.

Yeah, the stormvermin look kinda pricey, but it's a 20 model box though.

I cant stop smiling , its been forever since GW sculpted something i LOVE !!!!!

and so many!!!

*EDIT because im TOO EXCITED WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

The Deathmaster model is PURE WIN, like the tiny rats crawling out of the armour on his base.

Don't like the new Doomwheel though. And even with online discounts there is no way I'm buying the new stormvermin.

You know, when I was looking for a WHF army I almost thought of going with Skaven before Dark Elves. Starting to wonder if that was smart.

Hell, I only have one unit for my DE anyway so I could always hop on over...

...in a year perhaps, when I might have money to start buying models again.

Really cool, I was thinking of getting the Army book it is almost a must have now. I really love Queeks new model, looks awesome!

Oshunai wrote:The Deathmaster model is PURE WIN, like the tiny rats crawling out of the armour on his base.

Don't like the new Doomwheel though. And even with online discounts there is no way I'm buying the new stormvermin.

I liked it more when the pilot is more visible sitting ontop , now it feels too crowded .

Sidstyler wrote:You know, when I was looking for a WHF army I almost thought of going with Skaven before Dark Elves. Starting to wonder if that was smart.

Hell, I only have one unit for my DE anyway so I could always hop on over...

...in a year perhaps, when I might have money to start buying models again.

Forget Dark Elves , get more rats!


I love the unhelmet clean looking clan rat head . looks SO CUTE
mixing them into space wolves.

Marine players have been paying more than that per model for years. Get over it. £1.50 each ain't that bad.

hammerofulric wrote:Marine players have been paying more than that per model for years. Get over it. £1.50 each ain't that bad.

Thats not the point mister. Just comparing it with the clan rat box.
Not every price complaint is to do with affordability .

Now lets hope for news of new Battalion .... i wannnnnnnnt!!!

I'm sooo glad I didn't order my Space Wolves yet... Doomwheel brigade, here I come!

Thanks Red!! Snikch and Aggro-Queek are aces, but I do love the hell out of that doomwheel, dig that design with the driver inside the wheel. Also, I'm somewhat shocked to see 20-rat boxes, and happy that clanrats have ducked under the $22-for-10 standard (even if stormies are over it).

Excite!!

- Salvage

His Master's Voice wrote:I'm sooo glad I didn't order my Space Wolves yet... Doomwheel brigade, here I come!

I like the way you think, a Doomwheel brigade sounds awesome!

On a side note, they(the doomwheels)remind me some what of those wheel bikes from star wars. None the less, it's a really cool model.

Boss_Salvage wrote:Thanks Red!! Snikch and Aggro-Queek are aces, but I do love the hell out of that doomwheel, dig that design with the driver inside the wheel. Also, I'm somewhat shocked to see 20-rat boxes, and happy that clanrats have ducked under the $22-for-10 standard (even if stormies are over it).

Excite!!

- Salvage

Agree about the Doomwheel. I love the "Rube Goldberg" look to it. Maybe I can be motivated to finally field my rat army.

ZF-

But I don't want to play Fantasy, damn it!

Are now up for pre-order -
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1491876&rootCatGameStyle=wh

Wow, how did GW manage to surprise us with those?!? You'd think someone would have snuck out some pics from the recent Games Day...


Anyhow, the Characters are nice and dynamic, as Luna notes.

The Clanrats are quite good, and nice to see they're sold 20 a pop. I guess Skaven are going to need huge boatloads if GW is breaking the 10/box rule for them... Perhaps weedy Skaven require ranks of 6 or more?

The Doomwheel is OK, but doesn't quite match up to the previous version. Also, like Luna, I don't like the pilot inside - how does he see?

The Stormvermin are good, and the new standard model sizing looks to be paying off, rather than increasing with every edition.

Also, why do I have such a strong Japanese feel from these minis?

Periscope ahoy

Generally fantastically awesome models. Something about the unhinged jaws of the Clanrats on the far left of the box doesn't look quite right though.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Also, why do I have such a strong Japanese feel from these minis?

i think that its the segmented looking armor

Really nice, the other half was trying to hide herself from these as she hasn't finished her WoC army yet, but I know shes going to go mad.

We're both Rat folks, had quite a few of the cute little blighters over the years, so Skaven always hold a special thing for both of us.

On a side note I have to agree that Snikch and Queek are unbelievable models on the scale of awesome. The Wheel is also top class.

Shame about the over inflated Stormvermin price, but I suppose you can't have everything.

Impressive.

Thats just DROOOOOOOL......!!

Those are some nice models! If only the lizardman release had been on par. Great to see such a positive buzz about a new release.

Well for me this is eagerly awaited as I have longed to collect as decent a looking Skaven army as was in 2nd Edition of Fantasy.

Wow - holy crap. The Deathmaster used to be one of the nicest models in the previous Skaven line and I was skeptical when I heard they were updating his model. Wow! I am not disappointed - that thing looks incredible. In fact, all of these new models look terrific! Much better than the batch of new metals that started with Mordheim and went through the previous edition of the Skaven army book. This is making me really excited to get back into Skaven again.

@HMV - thanks!

It wasn't obvious at first glance.

*Still drooling .

The doom wheel i think would be cool if there are lots of giant rats running in it as power source
instead of the warp stone / steam engine.

Hehee. No one has noticed just how cool Snickh's sculpt is...

The three blades are positioned into a Skaven symbol. I seriously like it!

Luna....that's exactly how it's powered. The engine thingy on the back is most likely a condenser/battery of some kind for the gathered kinetic energies.

And finally....£30 for 20 Stormvermin is currently par for the course when it comes to plastic Heavy Infantry. Base stuff is £12, spankier stuff £15. And seeing as nobody in their right mind would want only 10 when it comes to Skaven (unless adding to an existing regiment of course) this is priced the same.

The doomwheel has plenty of little rats running in it.

Railguns wrote:The doomwheel has plenty of little rats running in it.

:<

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:And finally....£30 for 20 Stormvermin is currently par for the course when it comes to plastic Heavy Infantry. Base stuff is £12, spankier stuff £15. And seeing as nobody in their right mind would want only 10 when it comes to Skaven (unless adding to an existing regiment of course) this is priced the same.

..told ya about the price..

...It would make sense would it not then if perhaps stormvermin possibly to have a minimum unit size of 20 then ? It seems unlikely in the extreme that GW would give you two units or more than the minimum number in the kit.

digging round the site's then

Core
Clanrats
Giant Rats (Moulder Box)
Stormvermin
Night Runners
Rat Swarms
Skweel (Upgrade Character)
Weapon Teams
Slaves

Special
Plague Monks
Rat Ogres (Moulder Box)
Plague Censer Bearers
Gutter Runners
Jezzails
Poison Wind Globadiers

Rare
Doomwheel
Warp-Lightning Cannon
looking alright.

Well, looking at the doomwheel sprues it seems you get a load of extra giant rats with it. Thats going to kill two birds with one stone for me then.... The actual plastic kits look very good, as do the new metal sculpts. The new rules? We just dont know....

Am I the only one put off by the plastic clanrats? They don't even have the same build/anatomy as the stormvermin.

I guess the upshot of all this is, I'll have plenty left over for the new beastmen, assuming they aren't as disappointing as this release.

OKay i play fantasy bu i'm not that familiar with skaven but is that giant hamster wheel with a laser gun on the front

youbedead wrote:OKay i play fantasy bu i'm not that familiar with skaven but is that giant hamster wheel with a laser gun on the front

It's a Skaven Warmachine called the Doomwheel, which has been part of Skaven armies for quite some time now, if I'm not mistaken.


I also noticed the symbol Snikks is making. Pretty awesome.

Good to know that, if Snikch wiffs with all three daggers, he can always stab them with his cape.

Queek is my favorite of the bunch.

The Doomwheel is also pretty good. I would have preferred that it be more ramshackle, but with the way it looks now I may be able to appropriate it for conversions elsewhere.

Do we know yet if the doomwheel will be plastic or metal?

its plastic, check the other thread for sprue pics

page 1
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/259611.page

Thanks.

And once again, the chance of me ever finishing my Ork army gets smaller.

Any pics of the stormvermin sprues?

My fears about a redo for the Deathmaster were unfounded. Pretty good model and more dynamic than the last one. Most importantly he still wields a third weeping blade in his tail.

Not sure about Queek. A bit too "leapy"

Flashman wrote:Not sure about Queek. A bit too "leapy"

That's why I like English so much. You just can't come up with words like that in German

Some lovely models, I like the leaping Queek although I don't like the giant skeleton on his back.

Price is ludicrous though especially on this idea for units of platics of something elite costing half again as much again as regular troops, there is no justification in production or materials for those prices.

I like my rats and am therefore blind to the prices on this occasion.

No sight of the Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace model then?

As far as the price of stormvermin go it's still less than 5/8's the cost that 20 would currently cost you. I'm just hoping that they make them more than a 0-1 unit cause then i'll be in heaven! I've always loved stormvermin, even though there were other units that did more for much less

so a few things ive been thinking about the new skaven:
storm Vermin price is rediculus but i'll pay for it anyway, not to keen on the new clanrat faces either, and the tiny rats on the character models are just crap if you look closely (do they even have hair?)
aside from that the its all aces, cant wait to get the army book and begin plotting

LunaHound wrote:Storm vermin waaaaaaaaay too expensive

Those 2 special characters, BEST GW sculpt to date.

Finally am army worthy for me to update !

O-M-G

Love that new Cyanhur - I mean Snikch - model. Truly he is the Dagger of the God Rat.

Flashman wrote:

No sight of the Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace model then?

It's very nice, big old chunk of church on there, people (well ratmen) to either pull or chime it. I prefer it to the doomwheel.

reds8n wrote:

Flashman wrote:

No sight of the Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace model then?

It's very nice, big old chunk of church on there, people (well ratmen) to either pull or chime it. I prefer it to the doomwheel.

Does that mean:
a) you've seen it?
and
b) it will not be part of some omnius "second wave" which may or may not come at some point after the book?

I have seen it, AFAIK it comes out a fortnight or so after the rest of the kits we have seen, with the new battalion.

EDIT : see here-- no pic, sorry !

Okay, thanks.

hmmm....a new big kit with Plague in the title. Me like already.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Some lovely models, I like the leaping Queek although I don't like the giant skeleton on his back.

Price is ludicrous though especially on this idea for units of platics of something elite costing half again as much again as regular troops, there is no justification in production or materials for those prices.

Of course there is... Making the mold for plastic models is a fixed capital investment. Yes the plastic to make the models, the packaging, the time investment in designing the figures, etc, probably costs the same for elites or regular troops, but you can expect much greater sales for regular troops and therefore can spread out the capital investment over a broader base leading to lower prices on a per unit basis for regular troops. Elites, by their nature, do not sell as heavily as troops. Therefore to recoup the capital investment you need to charge a higher cost per model.

One could, perhaps, argue that the delta between the two is artificially wide, but to say there's no justification strikes me as being off the mark.

Vale,

JohnS

Maybe they'd sell more elites if they didn't cost so much? I'd buy more just to have them.

Railguns wrote:Maybe they'd sell more elites if they didn't cost so much? I'd buy more just to have them.

How many Rare/Special units can you have per army compared to Troops? Sure some people will "overbuy" but the rules simply don't allow you to field as many Rare/Special units as you can Troops.

Vale,

JohnS

It isn't like you get the maximum number of models per unit in any of the boxes. You'd need to buy $100 American before taxes to get a full squad of terminators. (which is USUALLY the same with core choices, but the pricing model for "units" is completely inconsistent.)

I hadn'rt seen this posted on here yet. Stolen straight from the Warhammer Forum who stole it from Warseer.
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=64602


1st: Armywide special rules and differences from "normal" armies, changes from old book.

Magic Items: You have the usual Magic items with the usual restrictions (100 points for Commanders, 50 for heroes), seperated in weapons, trinkets, armour etc.
And than there are the "special" lists of items. Some characters as the Assassins for Example are only allowed some of the special lists. Moulder Clan equip, Skryre wargear, etc.

Shooting into close combat - gone. Yes, it's gone. Really.

placing characters within the last rank - gone. Still, if a character decides to withdraw from a chalange and is placed in the last rank, he still benefits the unit with magical items, leadership, battlestandard etc.

Other army wide rules: Live to fight another day: +1 distance to flee.

you get +1 morale (up to a maximum of 10) in the higth of your rank bonus.

looted wargear (not sure about the name)
thats a short list of equip including several weapons and funny objects. You may have as many of them as you whish, still only once the same per character.

Warpstone pistol - 8 points. 10 " range pistol with warpstone attacks (means magic attacs). counts as a pistol in all means.
Warstone rifle - S 5 Warpstone musket. Move or shoot. 10 points.
Guardian rat - 1 WS 3 S 3 aditional attack with bearers initiative. 5 points.
Tail weapon - 1 aditional attack with S 3, does not benefit with other wargear, may still be used with magic weapons.
Poisoned attacks - 15 points.


2nd - Units.


I start with the boring stuff here, everyone who's interested into the hell pit abomination should scroll down...

If I do not mention otherwise, every unit has +1 to flee and +MW for ranks.

Core

Clanrats -
the same. 4 points each with 1/2 (yes, one half) point for shields and spears.

Stormvermin:
Strength 3. Come with halberds and mail armour for 7 points, 1 point for shields. One unit may have a magic banner for 50 points. Champion may pic from the "wargear loot" equip for 15 points.

Both Clanrats and Stormvermin may add one (1) weapon team of the following:
Flamethrower (70 points) , Thing-shredder (55 points), Globe mortar (65 points), Rattling gun (55 points)

Flame throwers now have flaming attacks.
rattling guns are the same, but do not hit automatically. the do not suffer a penalty for multiple shots or longe distance shooting.

Slaves -
two points each. 1/2 point for shields, spears or slings. No weapon teams, no champion, Musician standard costs halved.
Slaves have two special rules, one is "cornered" which I do not remember... the other is "worthless" - as long as an enemy is only engaged with slaves, you may shoot into the close combat.
Slaves do not provoke panic tests from any other unit than slaves.

Shadowrunners
May make a free movement at the beginning of the game. No skirmishers. May have a Warpunnler. 7 points per model,
come with two hand weapons and shuriken.
Champion has a 6+ ward save.

Giant Rats: little cheaper, do not count for minimum of core units

Vermin swarm: 25 points, same as giant rats. do not block linoe of sight.



Special

Gutter runners
May have a warp tunneler. skirmish, outflank from any edge.
Champion has a 5+ ward save. Come with same es shadow runners.
May be given the following: Nets (a net counts as a shield and gives a malus to the enemy, I think it was -1 to hit, nut sure though.) poisened attacks for 5 ppM.

Rat ogres.

Same price here, same profile, come with... frenzy...? don't know the english term. You are granted +1 attack but you have to charge if possible.
you may add as many ogres to the unit as you want (4 ppM), for each 2 ogres you may add one more handler.
May have a mastermoulder (counts as champion, may have 30 points wargear, a Thing-cather which grants him killing blow for 20 points or a great weapon for 4 points.
Mastermoulder profile is 6 5 3 4 4 2 5 2 6

Plague monks: 7 points per model, come with two handweapons, one unit may have a standard for 50 points.
Still have frenzy (was it frenzy? se rat ogres for what I mean...)

Jezzails: 20 points per model. 4+ armour save, NO skirmishers. May have a champion with BS 4 for 10 points. Unit size 3+

Censer bearers: the same almost, forgot about them.

Globardiers: 10 ppm. 5 - 15
Special rules: Life is worthless... may fire into close combat.
shoot from behind: when engaged into close combat, all globardiers which do not have contact with enemy models may shoot at the unit(s) they are engaged with.


Lords
I did not look up neither the abilities of special characters, nor their options. I just list you the points.

Lord Skrolk: 470

Thanquol: 450

Ikit Claw: 395

Skrotz the mutant: 225

newHeadhunter-thing-char: 215
After a brief overlook he seemed pretty strong with WS 7 and 6 attacks...

Verminlord: 500 points.
profile: 8 8 4 6 5 5 10 5 8
Special rules: Flee + 1, Immune to psychology, Terror, great target, 5+ ward save, Sorcerer lvl 4. He counts as a demon.
The vermin lord may not be the general of your army.

Warlord: 90 points.

Grey seer: +1 Morale. Comes with Lvl 4 and D3 warpstone tokens. 240 points.
The Screaming bell is his mount, 200 points. The model itself is HUGE, almost twice es big as the current one. Kit is also used for the "Plague menetekel" (now this word is totally strange to me, and there seems to be no translation to english... wiki led me to this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_writing_on_the_wall
There's a Rat ogre ringing the bell and a grey seer (with horns) riding the bell. Function of the screaming bell later.


Heroes.
Snikch: has a mantle which obscures him, he's only visible to units on 4+. 270 points.
He has got a murdering profile, Initiative 10 and always strikes first.

Tretch: 145 points.

Assassin. Sad part first: assassins do take a heroe's choice. They work pretty much like DE assassins, with lower profile (stil I 9 ASF)

Warlock: 15 points. At this stage he's a technician only, no wizard.
he may be upgraded to level 1 for 50 points or level 2 for 85 points.
Only one to have 2 warpstone pistols...
May chose lore of doom only. (more to magic later)

Plaguepriest: 100 points, lvl 1 wizard. may chose lore of plague. May have a Plague Menetekel giant swingy-thingy... oO for 150 points.

Now, lets start the interesting point:

Screaming bell.

Bell comes with Magic resistance (2), 4+ ward save, causes fear, is a Large target.. It MUST join a unit of storm vermin or Clan rats. The joindes unit becomes stubborn.
Bell has T6, LP 6, S 5, causes impact hits. The Rat ogre ringing the bell may strike with S5.

Enemy units in contact may chose to attack the Bell (WS of the ogre is applied here (WS 3)) or the prophet.

Moving the bell: It requires at least 10 models to move the bell at full capacity (5 Inches). For each model below 10, it loses 1 Inch of movement, if the unit dropps to 5 it may not move at all.

Ringing the bell (thats what you wanted...)
at the begining of each turn or magic phase (not sure) the player may ring the bell. At turn one he may only use 1 dice, at each of the following up to three.
The bell is automatically rung if wounded by a S5 or higher missile attack.
Results:

1 - nothing happens. Spank-spank the Rat ogre for failing-failing...
2 - 4 unit with the bell attached moves D6 inches forward (and may attack if possible)
5 - 8 all friendly units may reroll morale checks within 24 inches of the bell
9 - 10 Bell (not the seer) casts the Spell "Scorch" from lore of doom (see later with magic) at power level 5
11 - 12 All enemys with T7 or higher suffer D3 wounds
13 Say Ding-Dong alound and smile to your enemy. All Enemy units within 24 inches suffer D3 S4 hits. If the Bell is engaged in close combat ALL Skaven within the unit it is attached to may attack in close combat this round.
14 - 16 All units within 12 " gain +1 attack for this turn.
17: All gain +1 attack and get to reroll tohit and to wound
18: with a loud BANG the Bell is destroyed. All units within 4D6 inches suffer D6 S4 hits without armour saves.

if you roll two equals, the result is applied, but the unit pushing the bell suffers D6 S4 hits.
If you roll three equals, both bell and prophet suffer a S5 hit.

Plague menetekel:
It's not a furnace, it's like the bell itself, but with a big censer instead of the bell.
Moves just like the screaming bell, but may only be joined by Plague monks.
I do not remember a lot of this thing. It has two effects, the one's a mighty blow which causes a numer of hits declared with the artillery dice of S5 o the enemy unit in contact., the other makes all models in contact (friend and foe) take a Toughness test or lose one lifepoint.


Which leaves us with
Rare choices

Hell Pit abomination: 235 points.

It may NOT tunnel. It is a crawling, moving mass of dozens of Bodies moulded together, has severel arms, giant claws, etc. The drawing shows it to be at least 10 times as high as a man. It is NOT a giant rat, more like 100 sakven mutated together with parts of giant creatures. the pic was only small but it scared the crap out of me...

Causes impact hits, Terror, Large Target, Regeneration, Stubborn.

Profile: 3W6, 3 1 6 5 6 4 * 8
Moves 3 D6.If you roll three times the same, something bad happens. roll a D6 to see the result: 1: does not move at all, 2 - 5 moves at a random direction, 6: gains + 1 strength. If you roll a second or more 6 it looses 1 wound.
Special attacks: Troll 1 D6 to determine how it strikes
1-2: Feast: 1 S6 hit at all models in contact, no armour save, causes D3 wounds.
2-4: leash: 3D6 attacks. A unit that suffers a casulty get a -1 penalty to hit rolls against the abomination.
5-6: Crush: all miniatures in contact have to take a I-test or will be killed, the crushed unit suffers 2D6 S6 hits.

If the nasty thing is dead, playe a marker at it's position. at the beginning of your next turn, roll 1 D6.
1 - 3: Killed. The dreaded creature is dead, dead, dead. Your enemy may open a keg.
4 - 5: Rats leave the sinking ship, er, mean to say creature. Place D3 Vermin swarms.
6: It's ALIVE!! The Abomination comes back to life with D6 Lifepoints.

Doom Wheel - 150 points

Causes Terror, Impact hits (D6 + 1), Large target.

Moves like a chariot (3D6). If moved through difficult terrain it only suffers D3 S4 hits and moved on. However, if it moves againts impassible terrain it suffers D6 S10 hits and stops...
when negaged in close combat it may crush the enemy, causing D3 S6 hits.

Warplightning Arc - has to shoot 3 times each round, causing as many hits as the artillery dice shows you to the NEAREST unit. Strength is 6. Warlock may surpress firing with a morale check. Morale is 7.
If you roll a malfunction: 1: suffers D6 S6 hits, - 1 D6 movements. Three times this result and it is destroyed.
2-5 moves at a random direction.
6: Whats that button-button fore? Moves an aditional D6 until end of game.

Warp Lightnin canon - 90 points.
No more ward save, does not have to pick "flee".
It works just like a cannon now, with the following difference: The first Artillery dice is used to determine the beginning of the effekt, the second one for how far the Spark "jumps" and for the strength.

Malfanction: 1- 2 : it exploed.
3 - 5: oooops... shoots 4D6 in a random direction, with S 10, and exploed with the 5 inces blast at the end of the line.
6 - may not shoot this turn.

Plague catapult: Magic catapult with S2 poisened attacks with large template. Funny thing: one of the malfunction results makes your opponent place the large template anywhere within 3D6 from originalt target. 100 points.

Magic:

As reported there are two lores: Lore of Doom and Lore of plagues.

But first....

the DREADED 13th Spell - cure of the horned rat. Cast on 25.

Only grey seers may have it.

It causes 4D6 casulties at one infantry unit. No Saves at all. If the unit is totally destroyed by this, you gain a unit of clan rats equal to the number of models destroyed, otherwise they are only casulties (the fellow warriors just "release therir former brothers from their suffering")


Lore of Doom:

1 - Sulfurjump: teleports one character within 12 inches to anywhere on the table. cast on 5+
2 - Warp lightning: magic missile with D6 S 5 hits. a roll of 1 hits the caster.
3 - Howling Warpstorm: Flyers may not fly, and all shooting suffers -1 to hit. Skaven shooting excluded. cast on 7+
4 - Deadly frenzy: one unit gains frenzy with +2 rather than +1 attack. does replace normal frenzy (so you don't get +3 attacks) lasts until unit looses combat.
5 - Scorch: places 3" template within 24 ", causing a flaming S5 attack to any model touched. Cast on 11+
6 - Jaws of the World Rat (seriously, it's named somewhat else, something with chasm or canyon or what ever, but the effect is the same...) Draw a line of 4D6 inches from the caster. Any model touched must take a Initiative test or is removed. War machines and chariots only on 5+.

Lore of plague.

1 - Plagebreath: cast on 5+, S2 breath weapon which ignores armour. In close combat engaged unit sufferd D6 S2 hits without armour.
2 - Poisened Gift: cast on 7+, unit gains poisened attacks. If it has it already, poisened attacks now work on 5+. Last til end of the game (!!)
3 - Wither: one Unit within 12 inches suffers -1 Toughness til end of the game. Cast on 8+
4 - Verminflood: cast on 8+: 5 " template moves 4d6 inches (not through impassible terrain, touched units suffer §d6 s2 hits.
5 - Foul clourd: cast on 11+ all units within 12 " suffer D6 S 5 hits without Armour: enemy on 2+, skaven on 4+, plague monks, censer bearers, globardiers and plague priests on 5+.
6 - the plague: same as before. cast on 12.

Weapon teams: almost forgot about them.

They come with heavy armour. As long as they stay within 3" of their attached unit they gain the morale bonus of their units ranks, and a 4 + ward save. They count as a single unit (and may be attacked and shot at as usual)

so, this is it. Enjoy =)

p.S. The battalion includes: 40 new clanrats, 20 plague monks and one giant rats/rat ogre kit. 85 euros.

That Abomination thing sounds like a lot of fun.
I'm still not going to play Fantasy.

Had a look at the sprues in GW Oxford Street on Tuesday. Really liked the Clan Rats, which I don't think some of GW's own images do justice. They have proper ratty faces and about half look suitably downtrodded enough to function as slaves (would it have killed them to put manacled arms or something on the sprue though?).

From The Crippler's post above, it doesn't sound like the army book is reinventing the (Doom)wheel much. Brings back a lot of old units (wonder if the old Vermin Lord model will be used like Karl Franz or Eltharion) with only a couple of new bits. I am reserving full judgement on Hell Pit Abomination, but was never a massive fan of Clan Moulder stuff and I don't think I'll like this either.

However, new models shown so far are enough to get me on board. Army book now pre-ordered

Further to the above, Vermin Lord is indeed still in production allbeit as a Collector's mini.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1300324&prodId=prod1140208&rootCatGameStyle=

Dare I say it, but all these lovely Skaven models want me to convert up a Hrud army for 40K.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now will it be based upon IG, Tau or Dark Eldar???

Good point Flashman. Still no Rat demon in the book. Lame.

Anung Un Rama wrote:Good point Flashman. Still no Rat demon in the book. Lame.

.sorry, what ? Vermin Lord is an option in the book.

Nice downgrading of the skryre stuff and buffing of the rest without completely nerving them.

And big thumbs up for the plague catapult!

Sad thing that I won't update my skaven this time around...

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S. The different lores look good.

I am defo going to be getting these new models

radiohazard wrote:Now will it be based upon IG, Tau or Dark Eldar???

I had this idea a few years ago; never put it into practise though :(
I was going to use Dark Eldar, with Plague Priests as Wyches, Vermin Lord as Talos, Stormvermin to Incubi, Doomwheel as Ravager, etc.

Nice, sounds like Skaven are going up.

Great, so the clan that interested me the most thematically and artistically is the one that gets nerfed. I hope a skryre army isn't too nerfed to play well.

radiohazard wrote:Dare I say it, but all these lovely Skaven models want me to convert up a Hrud army for 40K.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Now will it be based upon IG, Tau or Dark Eldar???

My vote for the imperial rats!

Railguns wrote:Great, so the clan that interested me the most thematically and artistically is the one that gets nerfed. I hope a skryre army isn't too nerfed to play well.

If it's what actually interests you, then you should still do it. I doubt it will be horrible.

I will anyway, but it sucks to play an army that you like the theme off but it manages to be terrible because of the theme and gets consistently creamed. It doesn't look like skryre took that bad of a hit though. The Skryre warlock engineers or whatever they are called apparently took a hit, and the Warp lightning cannon seems to have been nerfed in survivability at least. As long as those two things aren't totally ganked to help sell doomwheels I should be fine. Jezzails too.

-No more shooting into combat? Oh great ... take away the most unique rule that made Skaven fun... ( no more pew pew skaven army for me )

-Doomwheel is rare choice ? Been plastic i would have thought they get similar entries to Lizardmen Stegadon allowing lots of them ... guess not.

-Hell Pit abomination: Will this thing get a model?

@Railguns: It's a new WFB Army Book - it can't be worse than Ogres / Beasts.
____

LunaHound wrote:-Doomwheel is rare choice ? Been plastic i would have thought they get similar entries to Lizardmen Stegadon allowing lots of them ... guess not.

-Hell Pit abomination: Will this thing get a model?

Doomwheel is like Stank ... mandatory 2 per army!

Wait for Wave 2.

Railguns wrote:I will anyway, but it sucks to play an army that you like the theme off but it manages to be terrible because of the theme and gets consistently creamed. It doesn't look like skryre took that bad of a hit though. The Skryre warlock engineers or whatever they are called apparently took a hit, and the Warp lightning cannon seems to have been nerfed in survivability at least. As long as those two things aren't totally ganked to help sell doomwheels I should be fine. Jezzails too.

Which is worse-

Being hobbled by your theme?

Or having your chosen theme be THE most powerful option, thus the one every pure-competitive player who cares nothing for the fluff gravitates towards, leaving you a theme-loving player indistinguishable from the mass of bandwagon-hopping powergamers, with no one appreciating your theme because of the association?

Skrye was the broken option for years. A friend of mine really enjoyed playing Skaven early in 6th edition with the old Ravening Hordes list, in which the rats were a bit overpriced/underpowered, and he earned a lot of respect when he won with them. He stopped playing them when the book came out and the Skrye shooting/magic nastiness became a go-to list for powergamers.

Won’t be able to tell for sure how much Skrye got nerfed until I actually read the book, but I strongly suspect that it’s still going to be good; it just won’t be as much of a shooty/magic gunline.

Mannahnin wrote:

Railguns wrote:I will anyway, but it sucks to play an army that you like the theme off but it manages to be terrible because of the theme and gets consistently creamed. It doesn't look like skryre took that bad of a hit though. The Skryre warlock engineers or whatever they are called apparently took a hit, and the Warp lightning cannon seems to have been nerfed in survivability at least. As long as those two things aren't totally ganked to help sell doomwheels I should be fine. Jezzails too.

Which is worse-

Being hobbled by your theme?

Or having your chosen theme be THE most powerful option, thus the one every pure-competitive player who cares nothing for the fluff gravitates towards, leaving you a theme-loving player indistinguishable from the mass of bandwagon-hopping powergamers, with no one appreciating your theme because of the association?

QFT. Clan Skyre was almost the fun aspect of a Skaven army, but the over powerbuild was (one of) the reason(s) I stayed away from it.

reds8n wrote:

Anung Un Rama wrote:Good point Flashman. Still no Rat demon in the book. Lame.

.sorry, what ? Vermin Lord is an option in the book.

Oh, the Vermin Lord IS the demon. Must have overread that part. Well, in that case:

Oh dear.

Loving the new models, especially the clanrats. Must be strong and resist until I've finished painting what I've already got (yeah, right).

Can anyone smell.... cheese? Eek!

News for yous!

Death Master Snickh. 6 attacks, armour piercing and D3 wound per hit with Poisoned Attack and ASF.

Queek Headtaker. Ignores armour saves, wounds all Stunties on a 2+

Lord Skrolk. Allows Plaguemonks as Core choices.

Night Runners. Now ranked unit, but gain a free move before the first turn. Unknown whether this allows a march.

War Lightning Cannon. Fires like a normal Cannon (guess+overshoot, then bounce). uses small template, S Artillery Die (2-10)

Vermin Lord - Lvl 4 Sorceror with Terror

Doomwheel - Causes Terror, Chariot, 3D6 move, 3 Lightning shots a turn as S Artillery Die (2-10)

Gnawtooth grants his unit (Giant Rats or Rat Ogres) a choice of Regeneate, additional attack, or Poisoned Attacks

Slaves are half the cost of Clanrats (Clanrat costs currently unknown).

Say thank you Mad Doc Grotsnik


Automatically Appended Next Post:
News for yous!

Death Master Snickh. 6 attacks, armour piercing and D3 wound per hit with Poisoned Attack and ASF.

Queek Headtaker. Ignores armour saves, wounds all Stunties on a 2+

Lord Skrolk. Allows Plaguemonks as Core choices.

Night Runners. Now ranked unit, but gain a free move before the first turn. Unknown whether this allows a march.

War Lightning Cannon. Fires like a normal Cannon (guess+overshoot, then bounce). uses small template, S Artillery Die (2-10)

Vermin Lord - Lvl 4 Sorceror with Terror

Doomwheel - Causes Terror, Chariot, 3D6 move, 3 Lightning shots a turn as S Artillery Die (2-10)

Gnawtooth grants his unit (Giant Rats or Rat Ogres) a choice of Regeneate, additional attack, or Poisoned Attacks

Slaves are half the cost of Clanrats (Clanrat costs currently unknown).

Rat Ogre's now available as a Character Mount! Called Bonebrutes or some such. Whether this is a 'souped up' variant or not currently unknown.

Say thank you Mad Doc Grotsnik

What is everybody's opinion about the 1/2 point upgrades? I think it's so strange. Wouldn't it have been better to just say - entire unit may have shields for 15 points, or something like that?

I just like the 13th spell. Go big or go home!
____

Woo-hoo, Monte Carlo simulation complete:

5 PD = 21% miscast, 4% success
6 PD = 26% miscast, 21% success
7 PD = 33% miscast, 44% success

Fun!

Bet Ikit Claw (old Skyre character who appears to be making a comeback) allows Doomwheels as special choices. I fully expect there to be some way to field a "Charge of the Doomwheel Brigade".

Oh and thank you Mad Dok Is the book in the shop now?

Thanks to Mr. McBaine of Warseer for the following :

Ikit Claw :
M5 WS5 BS3 S5 T4 W3 I3 A2 LD7
Level 3 caster, chooses from Lore of Ruin, may switch 1 Spell for Warplightning
Exoskelleton : magic armour, 3+ AS, 5+ Ward Save. It states that it enhances his strengh (without it it would be S2). It comes with a Warpfirethrower which has one use only, but can reroll the artillery dice.
Stormdemon : Helbard which allows no AS. Can cast Black Warplightning as a bound spell (Powerlevel 5).
The black Warplightning does Artillery dice hits. If a misfire happens roll 1D6 :
1-2 : Ikit and all models in base to base contact take a S5 hit
3-5 : Ikit can cast no more spells during this magic phase
6 : Overload, Ikit generates D3 Power dice

Queek Headtaker
Same profile as normal warlord except for WS 7 and 6 attacks.
Can upgrade a unit of Stormvermin to his personal guard, giving them +1 WS and +1 S (+4 ppm)
Cannot join units with casters and the other way around.
Gets +1 to hit and to wound in a Challenge, must always accept them.
Dwarf Gauger and Handweapon :additional Attacks already in profile, all attacks allow no AS and Dwarfs are wounded on 2+
Warpstonearmour : 3+ AS, if a save is passed, the attacker gets a S5 hit (the normal Warpstonearmour in the magic item section is the same for 30 Points, but just S4 hits).

Skrolk
M5 WS6 BS4 S4 T5 W3 I6 A4 LD7
Level 3 caster, chooses from Lore of Plaque, may switch 1 Spell for Pestilence breath (translation ?)
Has Frenzy and may change Plaque Monks to core, but not sure about that...
All models in btb contact get -1 to hit, Clan Pestilence Units are immune to this effect tho.
Staff of coruption : Flail, after to hit rolls, a model which is hit one or more times must pass a single T test or is slain immediatly (no saves of any kind allowed !!). If it survives, go on with the normal to wound rolls and so on.
Liber Bubonicus : Bound Spell (Powerlevel 6). Chose a Unit in 24", then throw 1D6 :
1 : nothing happens
2-4 : every model in the unit gets a S1 hit, no AS allowed
5-6 : every model in the unit gets a S2 hit, no AS allowed

Deathmaster Snikch :
M6 WS8 BS6 S4 T4 W2 I10 A6 LD8
He may start the game hidden in a unit, be deployed like a scout or enter the battlefield like Dwarfen Miners from an Tableedge. He also has a 4+ Ward save, and nobody may use his LD and he always strikes first. These exact rules are the same for every Assasin, so now we come to were Snikch is special :
He has 3 weeping blades (bonus attacks already included in profile), which have Armour piercing and do D3 wounds.
If any unit wants to target him for magic, shooting or charges, they have to roll a 4+ to do so. If they dont pass, they may declare another target and ignore Snikch in all ways.

Clan rats are, I believe, 4 points each, half a point (yes..they are back) each for a shield.

The Crippler wrote:What is everybody's opinion about the 1/2 point upgrades? I think it's so strange. Wouldn't it have been better to just say - entire unit may have shields for 15 points, or something like that?

Fine by me - this always used to be the case in 3rd edition, models whose base cost was under 5 (or 6 or something) got all equipment at half price..

Ha the one rat has the AVB symbol!!!!!

reds8n wrote:... half a point (yes..they are back) each for a shield.

Cant wait now for the army book.

Groan... the return of the 1/2 points. I'm really fussy with points and like it to round off exactly at the agreed total (don't know why, maybe I'm slightly autistic). 1/2 points used to be the bane of my existence. Oh well, no characters in Clan Rat units now (cos dropping a rat to make way for a character leaves an ugly 1/2 point for the unit total).

God its only half a point!!!

typhus wrote:God its only half a point!!!

Indeed, but we all have our personality flaws. Mine is coping with unspent points in an army list. I just can't do it.

I just think the half-point question is an odd design choice. Really, by saying that they're worth only half point, you're also admitting that in large numbers they're not worth even that much. I think it would make more sense from a design POV to simply say that slaves have a min unit size of 20 and it costs 10 points to give the whole unit shields. Anything beyond the first two ranks of troops is never going to be important anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and one more thing...
Goblins are overpaying for their shields in comparison.

I don't think slaves should have shields anyway. Skaven slaves should be in chains, not wielding weapons.

Clanrats have them too and the same logic applies. The 30th clanrat in a block is never going to see combat.

The Crippler wrote:Clanrats have them too and the same logic applies. The 30th clanrat in a block is never going to see combat.

By that rationale, all rear ranks in Warhammer shouldn't have to buy shields. Lol, I can see the quartermasters now...

"Sorry chaps, you're going to be at the back, so no shields for you."
"Erm... what happens if we get charged in the rear, sir?"
"Look, we don't have enough equipment to go around ok, because we didn't adequately prepare for this conflict. See if you can go and blag some stuff from the Americans."

Skrolk
M5 WS6 BS4 S4 T5 W3 I6 A4 LD7
Level 3 caster, chooses from Lore of Plaque,

Man, I hadn't realized that WHFB got into such detail in their schools of magic. Are there items that can specifically counter act these effects, like Floss of Minty Freshness or Brush of One Thousand Bristles?


Hehe I am actually really surprised that I even noticed that... this is good coffee!

Excuse, did I rad that right. There is a Skaven who wears Power Armor?

I'm a bit shocked that that plague priest Skrolk looks like a combat equivalent of a Lord character, yet is also a level 3 caster. These characters are getting increasingly ramped up over the course of the edition.

Sweet baby cats, I may burst

Thanks for all this guys, I'm pretty damn excited all told! Will be converting up my verminlord for fun, but an abomination for serious - that thing is flat out demented! Will be curious how Teh Internets grinds the armybook down, but it seems pretty resistant here to being locked into one build (Skyre, looking at you) ...

- Salvage

@Flashman: Just take even numbers of units.

Wouldn't put too much stock in the stuff from Warseer.... Seems to have ommitted quite a lot of the information given to the Stores to big up the range. Stuff you wouldn't miss. Not saying it's inaccurate for sure, but pinch of salt!

Checked my info's again today, and not only can Gnawtooth soup up Giant Rats, but Giant Rats automatically fight in two ranks, as they swarm over each other! So using that with Poisoned Attacks can be pretty bitching!

Night Runners gain a 6+ Ward, seemingly to represent their overall Ninjaness. They can also enter from any table edge after the first, and are Scouting Skirmishers.

Also, Plague Censer Bearers, when in a certain radius of the Plague Furnace become Stubborn!

Books in store next week for casual perusal!

LunaHound wrote:-Hell Pit abomination: Will this thing get a model?

I want to say yes, considering GW's declining encouragement of conversions. Also, anyone else notice the great increase in characteristic tests in the past year or two? Like GW suddenly remembered "Oh yeah, S and T aren't the only ways to kill someone"?

The change of Weeping Blades from +1 S and D3 wounds to Armor Piercing and D3 wounds limits its use, IMO. Many mutli-wound models (outside characters) tend to be pretty lacking in armor saves already, instead getting durable via means such as toughness or regeneration. Trolls, Ogres, Giants, Kroxigors, Dragons, Wyverns, none really have that high a base armor save. Fluff-wise it makes very little difference (Armor Piercing and +1 Strength are nigh-interchangeable when it comes to what they would do background-wise), but gameplay wise it seems like a limit in power.

With the Warp Lightning Cannon, do you move the template with the shot or only settle it where the "bolt" lands?

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Night Runners gain a 6+ Ward, seemingly to represent their overall Ninjaness. They can also enter from any table edge after the first, and are Scouting Skirmishers.

Do you mean Gutter Runners? I'm not going to complain about Gutter Runners gaining a 6+ Ward Save, but I must ask if they still count as having poisoned weapons (or even the option to upgrade to them) or count as having magical attacks.

I don't really know. All the info I have is from the Staff Missive, telling us basic 'cool' stuff about the gubbins.

Might be Gutter Runners. The Skirmishing ones anyways?

As for weapons, dunno. Doesn't say anything on the info I've read, but that doesn't rule it out.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:I don't really know. All the info I have is from the Staff Missive, telling us basic 'cool' stuff about the gubbins.

Alright, thanks for sharing by the way.

Might be Gutter Runners. The Skirmishing ones anyways?

Both skirmish this edition. Next edition, it would be Gutter Runners (I wouldn't mind Skaven having a Core choice with a 6+ Ward Save), unless we've all been mislead on Night Runners.

As for weapons, dunno. Doesn't say anything on the info I've read, but that doesn't rule it out.

Any idea if slings will remain useable?

Anung Un Rama wrote:Excuse, did I rad that right. There is a Skaven who wears Power Armor?

Yes , even Warplock Engineers wear power armors. Their technology is so sophisticated !

Anung Un Rama wrote:Excuse, did I rad that right. There is a Skaven who wears Power Armor?

Maybe the under-Empire has tunneled into Albion....

This may have been answered already, but does anyone know if theres gonna be a model of the Hell Pit Abomination? Or if its even real? Or the Thing Shredder or the Globe Mortar for that matter.

It is real, but there is no model scheduled for it AFAIK.

....given that FW are supposed to be plunging into the fantasy arena more I wonder if we might see this from then, at least initially anyway.

Xenthick wrote:This may have been answered already, but does anyone know if theres gonna be a model of the Hell Pit Abomination? Or if its even real? Or the Thing Shredder or the Globe Mortar for that matter.

No models seen as yet. Expect this kind of thing to pop up in Skaven Wave 2 (assuming they're still doing 2nd waves by then, which anyway seems to be more of a 40K thing).

i'll be using my rat giant (see my gallery for wip pics.)

So great time for conversions then!! Any ideas on a reasonable base size? Kinda hard to judge with this kinda thing.

Flashman wrote:Indeed, but we all have our personality flaws. Mine is coping with unspent points in an army list. I just can't do it.

Are you a stickler about unfinished ranks like me?

Although, now that I think about it, 24 Rats fulfills both those problems(it's an even number so no .5 points floating, and can fit a character at 5x5).

pre ordery goodness with more nice pics

Nice, you really get a good feel for the smoke coming off the big censer thing.

Probably the nicest of the new £35 kits so far.

Yay for 54 pieces . Less gluing for me.

Thats pretty dang convincing. Great stuff!

LunaHound wrote:

Anung Un Rama wrote:Excuse, did I rad that right. There is a Skaven who wears Power Armor?

Yes , even Warplock Engineers wear power armors. Their technology is so sophisticated !

Actually, only Ikit Claw wears power armour. He also has his Storm Daemon zappy-staff. Warplock Engineers still get their fun stuff like Doom Rockets though.

Read through and reviewed the entire book today. It'll be on my FLGS site in a few days. PM me for info if you haven't read the book or need rumours confirmed, as I'm still lurking here nowadays...

Is it true that the price for poisoned attacks on Gutter Runners is "Ridiculously expensive" (as termed by the list on Warseer)? You wouldent happen to know the actual point cost would you?

Hm, I can't remember. I can have a look at the book on monday when I go to preorder some Skaven, or you can ask on 4chan.

Had a look at it today and I looks nice, but some new inventions bother me. The thing-shredderer (eng. name?) is too steam-punk for me and the newly designed doomwheel is also a step in the wrong direction, imo.

The special characters are nice (and powerful) but rather expensive. Skrolk for example is 470 points, the rat-daemon is 500 points. I didn't thought that snikch would be a hero level char, but he is.

I dig most of the stuff written, the only thing is that you cannot take Plague priests as core only with skrolk... bummer.

Greets
Schepp himself

and some close ups

..note the 2 point slaves and the Vermin Lord.

reds8n wrote:BELL / FURNACE

*pants 'splosion*

Also: *brain 'splosion at cleaning the mold lines off all those spikes*

- Salvage

So very cool!

You know, the Vermin Lord hasn't dated that badly compared to the likes of say... Nagash.

I just wish they would sell the rat ogres without the giant rats. It's a racket, I say!

But Giant Rats are great in the new list.

Dunno about points, but M6, and attack in Ranks is pretty filthy. More or less perfect anti Fast Cavalry unit. Might even be fairly tasty against select skirmishers.

Thankfully, if you don't mind ordering the metal ones, you can get Giant Rats without Rat Ogres. Plus it seems almost every frame in my army will contain some (Doomwheel has 7, and Plaguemonks have, erm, lots). Just need to knock up some Packmasters and job'll be a good'un.

Add in Gnawtooth, and they can go toe to toe with pretty much any infantry. Especially stuff like Witch Elves. Pricey, and easily swamped with your (no doubt, but awaiting confirmation) dirt cheap squeakers.

Whoa, I was at a GW the other day and the Doomwheel is possibly my new favourite GW model. That thing is brilliant.

Does anybody know whats in the battalion?

TheGrin wrote:Does anybody know whats in the battalion?

In another thread , they said the only new content in it is the clan rats.

doom wheel and storm vermin will not be in it...

I think it's 40 clanrats, 20 Plague monks, 1 Rat ogre w/packmaster and 6 Giant rats w/packmaster.

Can't believe how expensive Stormvermin are. 20 plastics for $83 AUD!

Mekboy wrote:I think it's 40 clanrats, 20 Plague monks, 1 Rat ogre w/packmaster and 6 Giant rats w/packmaster.

I'll be really mad at GW if its 20 clan rats , and the other 20 goes to night runners ( to clear their inventory lol )

Has anyone noted that the clanrats actually got cheaper?
They were 20 for 30€ here (germany) and now are 20 for 26€.

Just saying. The Bell/Furnance is a bit on the expensive side, though. But no suprise considering you need two of those maximum.

Greets
Schepp himself

Schepp himself wrote:Has anyone noted that the clanrats actually got cheaper?
They were 20 for 30€ here (germany) and now are 20 for 26€.

Just saying. The Bell/Furnance is a bit on the expensive side, though. But no suprise considering you need two of those maximum.

Greets
Schepp himself

Yes they are expensive , but this time i forgive GW ( omg? )
i factor in that we get a grey seer + rat ogre out of it anyways.

I don't play skaven, probably never will, but they are one of my favourite parts of WFB. I'm so happy to see the great new models and concepts for them. If all new releases were this good I'd be a raving GW fanboy.

If all new releases were this good I'd be a raving GW fanboy.

Points values are still totally off. Nothing to complain about the models & artwork -- Top notch as usual.

Therion wrote:

If all new releases were this good I'd be a raving GW fanboy.

Points values are still totally off. Nothing to complain about the models & artwork -- Top notch as usual.

Yup, agreed.

Hawkins wrote:

Therion wrote:

If all new releases were this good I'd be a raving GW fanboy.

Points values are still totally off. Nothing to complain about the models & artwork -- Top notch as usual.

Yup, agreed.

Erm...why? Honestly curious, haven't looked at the army book that closely.

Greets
Schepp himself