I recently came back to GW after a break of roughly twelve years, I'm not sure why had the time and circumstances bound our path's together once more and here I am.

....Which leads to start this thread, for anyone interested in my, or any other person's initial thoughts upon returning to the hobby. The main reason me starting this though, is to find out how many people are like me and how they feel too.

OK...

Well, first thing to be said is that I'm glad I have come back and I really enjoy picking the hobby up again. It's amazing how having a bit more money makes collecting miniatures a little bit more free-reigned. I also love the communities I found including this one here at Dakka, and this is one of the main springs of confidence and inspiration I get for direction and my own designs. Dante made me think this recently, another reason for starting this thread.

I am a little sad to see games like Necro, Bloodbowl and Epic sidelined, and being Fan only orientated for change really, but still heart warming to see mini's for it every-now and then. The recent resurgence in boardgames and the re-release of Space Hulk has brought more even earlier memories and with the hobby as it is I couldn't be mare happy stepping into the breach once more, it seems GW need to find ideas to grow and those ideas need to appeal to fans once more, not the masses. I find that really exciting. Very sad again though to hear rumors Epic maybe lost in warp permanently soon.

I am also somewhat annoyed at the atmosphere and marketing which exists in my local shop now, and don't attend it anywhere near as much as I did, even with the veterans night. I'm not ignorant though, and I understand to survive a business needs to adapt and evolve, but maybe with the new re-releases it will start a trend of GW going back to it's roots for getting a bigger core fan base in the first place. Who knows, I don't for sure, that's for sure...

Still it just seems it's lost a certain amount of 'warmth' from the days of the after-hours Blood-bowl league...

That said I urge you to remember my first words, and I enjoy the hobby more consciously than I ever did, which I think gives me more enjoyment as a whole, I also, like everyone, have more assets and skills and can take on more various interesting projects, such as terrain, as when I was younger it was just great to use C/Board Necro buildings. Could never do that now...

I also think mini makers now, like FW and avatar's of war as well as GW are just fabulous too, and the variety is all so varied and amazing now too, it's easy to find out what's going on around the world as well, and find out who's doing what with what where. It's ace.

So to sum up? I am glad to come back, the communities and the hobby is still strong, I have been able to re-enjoy old games and fig's and indeed new ones too, some of the new fig's take my breath away, and I feel for various reasons, I came to the show on the right night.

Now how does one make up for time lost? Oh yes, carry on making a blood bowl pitch...blissful

I've returned from a 10 year escape.

The game itself i'm happier with, 2nd editionw a sfar toochaotic comapred to this, it is in my opinion nicer rules set.

The models are also much nicer, i still have some of my old stuff, but i'm really prefering the new stuff. The prices though are a kick in the stones. I'm not complaining but when you remember terminators as £1.99 or £2.99 it was and check them now its massive inflated prices in comparison.

More expensive hobby now, but the models are much better, and rules nicer.

Specalist games is another sad side for me, they were great fun.

More of the same, returning since I quit during the horrific 'Red Age' (or Age of Strife) about 10 years ago, been back a year and already back to loathing the cynical wallet raping of GW. It's minis are great but it's prices and the way the company conducts it's self leave me angered (they put up the prices of metals due to the alleged tin price hike, and have now stated in their financial report that the price of the plastics will rise to match the metals). I've verymuch enjoyed playing again with my old crew and meeting some new friends via work who also play. I loathe going into GW shops and avoid if possible, the customer service by some individual staff is not good and I'm too old and grouchy for dealing with the screaming kids, oh and they often don't have what I want. I've been getting good at finding bargins and alternatives online, so let me know if you have questions, I may have already looked into the same thing recently and can link you some things.

Here's one for starters, if you are going to look at getting into WHFB, then this company is certainly worth a look, whilst their (superior) rank and file are more expensive than GW, due to being metal not plastic, their characters and heros are often cheaper and the quality of sculpting here is amazing:

http://www.gamezoneminiatures.de/index.php/language/en/XTCsid/fb2638db7ba680ee4c57fc24ea46771a

Just take a look at their vampire character cavalry, the orc warboss on boar or their Empire line. Beautiful. Take a special look at the goblin bolt thrower, it's built around a vampire's coffin!

I had previously left the hobby for 8 years. I played in my early and mid teen's- 40k, mordheim, and used to be that kid oogling at terminators thinking god they are so core. College, my first job, and trying to make enough to pay rent and not live off soup all the time meant a walk away from the hobby.

I returned randomly, and still remember walking through the mall thinking about buying a new dress shirt when I walked past a GW store, opened within the last 2 years. I blew the dust off my old "traitor" metal blood angels that were all robed, converted. Read up the rules.. (i had always been buying the rulebooks, just in case) and went to play a game. It was kind of comical. I had a picked up game against a shop "veteran" who was a great buy to boot, had a fun game, he laughed and joked that 10 years removed I was still good. The store manager game over, and then threw me out of the shop. He was a douche. Apparantly he was a GW fanatic, hated my army I later found out because they were all robed and I was using Cypher. He said I wasn't allowed to play until I made a new army in his shop. So I leave, and start playing mageknight.

I only return to the game 1 year later from that. I got a phone call from a buddy, that was working for them. He told me today was "new manager" day. The staff were super excited. So I pop in that night after work. The new manager's name is Dave, he's the GW Voorhees Manager, and a guy who started as a bottom level guy for GW. He's the guy who saved the hobby for me. His excitement, the "play want you have in my shop" and his pro gamer-hobby style is awesome. He's family oriented, and a true asset to their company.

Dave did what the former manager should have done. Allowed me to play my robed 40k marines with Cypher, knowing my hobby interest could grow. Comically I got hooked on the Iron Warriors after he handed me the preview that GW used to do on their book. I went on over 4 years to build and play Iron Warriors, and only sold them last year, 6 years later, with my intention to re-build them. I laugh because Dave is someone I consider a great friend, who has helped me re-intro into something I loved as a teenager, and still love as an adult. One of the shop workers re-intro'd me into mordheim, that grew into playing fantasy, and now I almost exclusive play fantasy.

My point: i think with the price hikes, and their new pro-marketing routines its up to veteran core gamers, guys who played in the days of 2nd edition, even early, those guys who stayed after hours and played mordheim until 3am, then grab breakfast and argue the Horus vs the Emperor fight, to bring it back. Its a hobby and a game, meant to bring friends. I love playing, winnings fun, but some times the game introduces you to people who change the way you look at things. In 40k i've gone from a Eldar sniper force, to Static Marines, and now looking back to my first love: Iron Warriors. Fantasy brought me High Elves, then Dwarves, to Beastman, to Skaven, and full circle BACK to High Elves

I was out of it for about 11 years between getting married and deciding to get back in about five years ago. (Shortly after 4th edition was released.

I don't play only GW though and never did.

The main change in the past 15 years is that the Internet provides a fantastic resource for wargaming. It has transformed searching for all kinds of hobby information.

My interest in Warhammer 40k began back in 94' or so, and I had been playing GW-based games since 92'

but it wasnt untill 96' that I actually got the starter set, I had been saving up cash throughout x-mas, birthday, allowance, etc, and I got a 2nd edition starter box, Bjorn the Fell Handed, a box of scouts, a few eldar and a few other things (paint, glue, brushes)

I got to work building and painting models right away, I taught my close friends how to play and collected 3 armies so we could all play games together, Marines, Eldar, and Orks.

then 3rd edition came out...
it was like someone kicked our puppy and poured acid into our eyes, I never bought into it. For years after that I would still play the game, but 2nd edition with my close friends in my room, which was dominated by a gaming table and a walk-in closet literally full of terrain (6 foot tall stacks of terrain, there was a LOT)

years later I met this guy who said his older brother had some of these models from back in the day, and offered to sell them to me for $10..... It was about 1500 points of Classic WHFB undead models.

years later still, I find a local game store with a bunch of good guys who played fantasy, so I got the rulebook, army book, and pumped up my Vampire Counts army. About 2 years after that, I move out of town, and get a new job, a couple guys here at work at my new job were talking about 40k, and they dragged me back into it.


So I never really quit completely, but I skipped all of 3rd and 4th edition 40k. So from about 99' until 2006 I didnt

"That said I urge you to remember my first words, and I enjoy the hobby more consciously than I ever did, which I think gives me more enjoyment as a whole, I also, like everyone, have more assets and skills and can take on more various interesting projects, such as terrain, as when I was younger it was just great to use C/Board Necro buildings. Could never do that now... "

I know EXACTLY how you feel there, I feel the same way

Makes me smile reading all this...

I share all you joy's and concerns...

...and NJPC your right I seem to have the same problem the staff seem a little young now and when I mention blood bowl or anything off 'the boil' so to speak,
they make it abundantly clear it won't be happening here. I can't help thinking that's a mistake which is putting old timer's off slightly and their not seeing the merit of new products. Not to say some of the staff are not welcoming and thoroughly admirable human beings, but you need strategy, not carpet bombs.

It certainly took dakka, and some of the ace modeler's here to make me understand how good 'the siege of vraks' lists can be, along with modelling for modelling sake, not just to spend money, and yes siege, that's FW, but their an official wing of GW right? where's the open arms and education for people like me? Not there.

...Hey killcrazy I play a little magic but not much, love the GW structure of games, did buy the warmachine book though, remix version, the fig's are just awesome. Remind me of titans. Not got round to a battle box though.

cheers for the link meangreenstompa love to source second hand collections too...get all-sorts...you do that much anyone?

...do you think demogerg it just comes from a bigger expectation personally now? My whole life has gone forward (computer games, music, clothes etc) so I think i just expect my projects to be grander and more interesting and I suppose complex. It's just a lot easier, for me anyway, now at my age to look at something and break it down to what it is and how it is done (maybe from my logic music making mind?) so can tackle things bigger now...

I got started straight away too, nothing like making up for missed time, I went halfs with my mate, £20 each, about $45 each I guess, and got a shed load of whfb orks, 40k orcs, boxed imperial units from mid-90's boxed man o war stuff, chaos figs, tanks, boxed mint heroquest and some books paints and dwarfs. Got me off to a beauty. Since got another load (from someones mum! ) for 35, got a case, 1500 necron army, loads of space marines and more whfb orcs and undead too. Lucky guy!

OT: Bloody raining and I want to go toys 'r' us pick up a new dr Who toy! Grrrr

mattstone wrote:
...do you think demogerg it just comes from a bigger expectation personally now? My whole life has gone forward (computer games, music, clothes etc) so I think i just expect my projects to be grander and more interesting and I suppose complex. It's just a lot easier, for me anyway, now at my age to look at something and break it down to what it is and how it is done (maybe from my logic music making mind?) so can tackle things bigger now...

Im not too sure. I think it might just be that as we were younger back then the game seemed more "mystical" and amazing, but now its, as you say, easier to break it down into its components.

For example, I used to look at the golden demon paint jobs, and the 'Eavy Metal team paint jobs and think about how incredible they were, and how I wish I could paint like that, but I had no idea how to do it.

now I see the same level of skill on a painted mini and I appreciate it, but I know the processes involved, I know how to glaze, layer, wash, drybrush, wetblend, etc. I look at a well painted mini and appreciate the skill involved, not just "that looks cool!"

I do have to admit, I love the hobby, and appreciate being able to play with my club mates. Its not about what's the newest cheese list, what's the nastiest combo. Its about the game and hobby. I think that got lost somewhere. In GW stores it seems more about sell what's the newest shinest box out there. When I used to got into the shops it was, "is there anything to add to your army" or "hey what's the newest conversion your working on can we see it?" Now its "hey empire has plastic greatswords, you should start them." Or "look space hulk is back!"

I guess maybe its age. But to me SPACE HULK NEVER LEFT! I still have the old video game. I paint and game, because I like it. I like to play against people with fully painted armies. I cringe when I hear people say "well I built my army, but why bother painting it." Or when I deploy my skaven "but the internet says they suck." I think there's a huge gap better guys who played in 2nd edition, and today. The internet is a great resource, but the seasoned gamers are the best resource: they have seen it, be there, done it, and can break down how to play the game in minutes. Good GW staff can do all that and much more.

Ha! so Demo the magic has gone from your life now? Me too...I know exactly what you mean.

And NJ great point, well made. I'd rather play two games a year with my my and another one's finely painted army and a fantastic board, than a load of fly-by-night set-ups that just never really catch your imagination as you'd like it. Being adult, as I presume we all are, the social and coming together aspects mean so much now, and by adding some 'intoxicants' and some old stories, you've got a great time right there.

I bought the original Warhammer, all those years ago.
3 Books in a box: Fighting, Magic and Roleplay! Probably still got them somewhere.
I kept up, until 2nd Ed. and then just played the Epic army I had, and no more.
Now 5th Ed. came out, me and some mates have got back in to it.
We are looking at campaigns, mixing in Dark Heresy and Planetary Empires etc. as part of a bigger story of individuals, rather than just one-off battles.
I'm also using it to write some (very poor) short stories.

LOL, so I guess this post is a "darn those wipper snappers!" post

mattstone wrote:I share all you joy's and concerns......and NJPC your right I seem to have the same problem the staff seem a little young now and when I mention blood bowl or anything off 'the boil' so to speak,
they make it abundantly clear it won't be happening here.

Seriously? Whether at my LGS or at a GW store, some one tries to "kick me out" for using models that don't fit their sense of fluff or tries to prevent me from playing Blood Bowl or Necromunda, they are going to get punched in the face and possibly suffer a wedgie the likes of which they have not experienced since they got their ass kicked in High School.

Perhaps it's because I am American, or maybe because I am just too damned old to take crap off of kids, but I really don't think any business should give you grief if you spend money in their store - especially in our niche hobby.

I stopped playing after leaving the company. 4 years later, I find myself back in the fold of Wargaming with GW.

Just this summer I found out that there was actually a GW that opened up this past year about 5 minutes from my house. I had always been really into the hobby but it had been extremely difficult to get games because the closest games shop of any kind was 30 minutes away at least. Being without a car of my own that is a prohibitively long distance. I was stuck with reading the novels, and wandering into a hobby shop and staring longingly at the tables for the past 5 years while my models gathered dust. While I don't have the length of time away and from the hobby as others, I can say that it is damn good to finally feel like I'm a part of the hobby for real. Plus I'd like to say that all of the GW's i've been to have had some of the best people running them.

That being said, I can now move on to the 1st major issue I have with GW: Pricing. I understand they have to make a profit, have to adjust prices based on materials cost, and the popularity of the model. The issue I have is the seeming randomness of the prices. There are units that take much less metal or plastic to assemble, but cost almost twice as much as other units i.e. the terminator squad of 5 costs $50, while a tactical squad of marines costs only $35.

The second issue I have is the reason why codexes take so long to produce. Yes I understand that certain races are more popular than others, and there is a greater demand for those to receive rules adjustments. My thing is, if your going to do something like jump from 4th to 5th edition, all codexes should be republished at the same time. The current protocol of "when we get around to it" seems lazy to me.

And yet despite those two rather large gripes, 40k still is one of the most enjoyable tabletop games I have ever played. I'd just like to see more reason and equality implimented. Oh, and a Dark Eldar update, Now

lmao @ NJ...yup...I'm putting some OMD on and having a bath....

Yeah Loki I can't really see that happening here, I can't really assault a 14 year old, and there really is no inclination from the 'main' crowd because they don't have a frickin clue what blood bowl even is. The STAFF have not played it.

All people like here is boring 40k with boyband space marines and some tau and necrons. That's it. Any other variety you really are looking around the wider 'non-shop'community (WHICH in my opinion SHOULD revolve from the GW store, but it really does NOT!).

I'd say GW was more marmite than niche now, there are bare people in that shop all the time, but the hobby itself, people either see the point, and appreciate it, or they just think your playing with toys.

I'm so jealous if Americans still play BB in-store, I tried to negotiate it for a veteran's night, instead of offering me the chance to meet the veteran's and ask them the guy just said 'no, no-one play's that in here'. I don't know if he has to say that or what, but I know BB is still strong in my town, as I said before going into the wider non-secular to the shop (ie people over 18) meet some nice people with nice armies nice attitude and a good appreciation index for a lot of GW stuff.

Say Magus to today's shop regular (or staff in a lot of case's I bet) they look t you as if your talking French.

Funny you should say that evilclown, me and my friend were scrolling through the army list's for fantasy, and it's sad to see list's like skaven so weak,it seem's those list's are not attractive so people won't get them, less variable games, less interest, people leave the hobby. I would love to field my dwarves against orcs, skaven, Lizardmen, beast and elf armies, but I can't see that until they are all solid and have equally attractive elements. Further on the skkaven, anyone remember um...think it was a doomwheel, or deathwheel and a doombell, or a combo of those words anyway... ...what happened to those? I used to love that old doom (?)wheel thing, was so different to see it on a battlefield too...

Ahh...GW what will we do with you eh?

[
Yeah Loki

All people like here is boring 40k with boyband space marines and some tau and necrons. That's it. Any other variety you really are looking around the wider 'non-shop'community (WHICH in my opinion SHOULD revolve from the GW store, but it really does NOT!).

Glad you enjoyed it NJ has been making me laugh through the day too...

Veteran's have anecdotes, regular's have Space Marines...

Thanks for everyone's replies so far.... Been really nice to see other people like me, it's great, I know there are others who have so much talent, such as Dante (I mention him again because he is a personal inspiration, and I get a 'good guy' vibe from him), who if they did not come back would be a crime in itself.

It fuels thy fire Lord.

I got in at the very tail end of 2nd ed 40k / 5th Ed WFB, right before the transition to 40k3 and WFB6, and to me, not being hugely invested into the excesses of 40k2 / WFB5, this was a good change. I remember going through the Codex and Army Books and thinking: "Wow, I need to do *this* and *that* to make an army? That's an army?"

I never came out of 40k, although I've scaled things back, big time, as time has moved on.

I played a bit of WFB6, when I had more playing time, but with less time, it's sidelined.

I dabble in Warmachine, and that's now gone deathly quiet.

But my minis are always there, and I always have projects available. Sometimes it's fun to play something old, for nostalgia's sake.

So this is the old geezer thread...

I had a hiatus of about 12 years for playing (like MeanGreenStompingMachine I left in the Age of Primary Colours...at least they didn't go fluorescent), but continued painting on and off.

When I was younger, I hung out at GW and it was like a wayward home for nerdy teens. Nowadays, the GWs have a different feel to them. I think part of it is age and part of it is their way of marketing. The GWs here are a bit different as they really only sell minis and the books are basically free. Back in Canuckistan (Canada), I'm a 100% FLGS shopper. I found thay getting into a club and hitting some tourneys with no expectations was a great way to get reacquainted and meet some new friends.

Now that the identity crisis of my 20s is over and I've passed the threshold of 30, I will always paint little army men. NeRd 4 LyFe.

I stopped playing soon after the 2nd Ed Sisters of Battle Codex came out. Didn't have enough time to play, and stayed away from the game until the 3.5 Chaos Codex was released in 3rd Ed.

Been here ever since.

Define "coming back."

1. I still buy their minis. In that sense, I never left.

2. However, I remember when I used to hang on their every word
on releases and news. I can't do that anymore.

The sad part is, they probably only care about #1.

Well when I stopped I literally stopped. I packed everything away in a cupboard, and didn't even think about 40K for many years until a bunch of friends got into it as we were starting Uni. I walked into the store, saw the Chaos Army Box, and bought it on the spot.

Yeah Malfred when I mean come back, I mean I forgot it, sold everything, now am back to where it all began. I'm expecting most people in this thread 26 YOA or over...

Come back means to leave something and then return.

Not having it in your life still, but not so much up the pecking order.

Basically you have not left nor come back Malfred, try not reading the mag and seeing the site or the shop for 12 years bud...

When I came back I didn't know LOTR was back, all the mini's are different, chaos has been split (boo!) everythings plastic, everything pre 98 is a bomb on ebay now, and there are only three choices in the fricking shop now. great work GW. I literally mean I have come back to something of a DIFFERENT beast.

I had school and puberty and girls and lots of other crazy stuff in transition to deal with, so it was literally, left.

I'm at end stages of my education, and make music too, so I can't say why, I don't need something in my life, I just enjoy it. Which is why I have no problem with at all.

As Khornholio (tittikaka?) says, I will always paint little army men..lmao..

And yes, we all seem to be old farts with army carts....

Get off my lawn and keep the GOD-DAMNED NOISE DOWN!!

My question for the other geriatrics is, do you feel uncomfortable when you go into a GW? The staff, on the whole, don't seem to be able to handle older players and seem to have been trained in being adversarial/inept/patronising since they are trained in the art of 'wowing' the kids. It seems so weird as when I was a kid of 11-15, I was the exception and all the players at the club I was attending (til I got some of my mates to join up) were in their 20s-50s.

Yeah got me into a lot of music and gave me the sense of humour I have today, the adult staff that worked then WERE different, I agree totally MGreenS....

I was kinda young and my best my mate in the shop was still 18 months older than me. Younger kids then seemed to be like we are now in terms of timidness towards the shop. Guess it was always going to happen, when you love a place in such dynamics, you can find it hard to differentiate a games-club and a place of retail??!! Weused to have many after hour sessions back in the day though, I don't think that happens now.

I think the younger staff now seem patronized or intimidated when you talk to them, there's one dude called Shaun in my local shop, who is younger, but he deserves props, as he does know his hobby and it's past somehwat, and he is really nice to chat too. The other 3 I met, are not. It's like you come off as a know it all, or like you've done it all before (We DO know a lot, and we HAVE done it all before) but in my day, call me a cynic, that was essential! And it gave people a friendly rivalry, and a willingness to improve, if you do study and do your homework, and think, an equal dose of luck (damned fate!) and you will win.

Being anal was important to win! It honed your logic and tactic skills (IMO) BB for example, is a game of chess with orcs and a ball. (IMO again!)

But MgreenS again, I have to agree, like Microsoft, they target the mum's now.

Oh Khornholio I have been looking at a local club and tourney's too, seems a great way to stretch those skills to throw over punny friends you coerce into a game (of BB for me! ) of your choice...Oh and meet people too...lol...

Love this Thread!

10 year Veteran here I stopped playing shortly after 3rd edition came out really. Whats funny is I was moving and somehow lost a 4000 point space marine bike army.


The rules : Excellent rules period ; a lot more tactical decisions etc.. I love them.

The Prices : not so much, expensive and more so now but I am more financial stable now than I was so things are good.

Currently I live in NOLA so its difficult to find games but I have afew people I know down here that I play with.

There isnt realy a GW store anywhere near LA so its all independent retailers.

I'd have to say it took me 13 years to really get into the hobby! I'd just gotten married at the time and on a rare Guy Time day that my wife was out with her friends, my cousin showed me this cool board game called Space Hulk. I could only think of the movie ALIENS so I was in it to win it! Then, I barely won the game with one last terminator versus his last genestealer and I was hooked. The minis were painted terribly but I didn't care because we had so much fun. Then married life took over, kids, work, etc and it took until 2006 for me to be able to get into 40k and get a huge Space Marine Force on sale at the Grapevine Mills GW.

So I'm finally into 40k after being introduced 13 years ago.

I had a 100% hiatus of 14+ years that I only returned from last Christmas. Biggest shame for me is the decline of Epic, which was probably the game I enjoyed most.

Fortunately, my models were in my parents' loft, not sold, but even so I have still spent a fortune.

While I believe that the average quality models has improved, and plastics are clearly better, I think the best models now are no better than the best model 20 years ago. In many cases, I still prefer the older versions of re-released models. For example, I think the original Jes Goodwin Banshees are still the best Banshees. On the other hand, the latest Scorpions are a big improvement.

For me, the hobby now revolves around the internet instead of the store. When I was a kid the stores seemed like magical places. I could only get there with a lift, for one thing, whereas now I can easily reach at least 4 under my own steam. The atmosphere is very different. Oxford Street, in particular, is clearly about selling, not playing. Maybe Maidstone is still how I remember it, but sadly, I doubt it.

I agree on the internet opening up the way for us and hasn't it shown us some amazing things and put us in touch with fellow wargamers and modellers the world over. It is then somewhat lamentable that whilst this happens around them, GW shut down their own forums to silence any naysayers and then allow their inhouse magazine to deteriorate into one of those plant catalogues you get free with the tv guides, only they want to charge us a small fortune for it. I think they could be accused of being out of touch..?

I too am coming back! Mainly because of SPACE HULK, which got me into 40k back in 1989/90. After 3 yrs of not playing I'll go BLOOD ANGELS since those minis in SPACE HULK are BA and soooo freakin awsome!

It has been several years since my last game. But that is purely because I play Dark Eldar. On the table my army looks ridiculous compared to anything else I fight because the models are so shameful. I'm often told my paint job compensates, (http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/gallery-search.jsp?u=8815&utype=own) but I still just want more respectable looking models. GW gets no more money from me, nor will I play again until they stop dragging their feet with DE.

Out of everything in the new rulebook the one rule I miss the most is : Overwatch.

Overwatch needed to go. Melee armies never stood a chance otherwise. Could you imagine Tau with overwatch?

Overwatch made for a stifled game imo, it was made for space hulk and should have stayed there. Other than the inconsistencies due to codex creep etc, the overall ruleset 40k has now is pretty good for a good, clean and quick fight.

Archonate wrote:Overwatch needed to go. Melee armies never stood a chance otherwise. Could you imagine Tau with overwatch?

Meh. They'd auto-lose to Guard with overwatch.

Evilclown wrote:That being said, I can now move on to the 1st major issue I have with GW: Pricing. I understand they have to make a profit, have to adjust prices based on materials cost, and the popularity of the model. The issue I have is the seeming randomness of the prices. There are units that take much less metal or plastic to assemble, but cost almost twice as much as other units i.e. the terminator squad of 5 costs $50, while a tactical squad of marines costs only $35.

I don't think the cost of materials has anything to do with the price of a miniature, because raw materials are extremely cheap. The relevant cost factors are molds and design, both of which are not tied to number of minis sold. But you have to sell enough minis in order to make up for those costs. Therefore, minis which typically sell more (like troops) should be cheaper than those that sell less (like elite or HQ).
Now, I don't think GW's prices are based on cost at all. They're probably purely artificial and based only on what people are willing to pay.

The GWs here in Japan have hardly anyone under 25 in them. There was a teenager with his father who were playing 40K, but everyone else was of drinking/voting age. I say that because it is/was election day, and they were going drinking after gaming instead of voting. The big difference here is that GW is the sole engine for the hobby. There are no real 'independent' clubs or stores that sell their stuff.

On "the relevant cost factor" question, here it is the rent for the store that drives the prices to be astronomical. I dropped almost $40 US for the Ork Codex. But when you need you fix...

I bought Rogue Trader, but never really got into 40k until 2nd edition came out. I played pretty steadily all through 2nd, and then drifted away after 3rd came out-3rd changed the army I played (Eldar) enough that I lost interest despite the fact that it was a better game.

Getting back into it now, and it's a better game than it's ever been. The prices drive me a little crazy, though that's cushioned somewhat by playing Orks. I not only get the awesome AoBR deal, but Ork boxed sets seem to be a little friendlier than most armies in terms of bits.

I never played at a GW store-there wasn't one around for most of the time I played. I still play at the the FLGS I've played at for years, and the owner there doesn't care if we bust out Blood Bowl or whatever in the back room.

I will say this, though-the GW players are definitely older than they used to be. When I was playing 2nd ed, there were a bunch of teenagers playing and getting into it. I still play with a lot of those guys, but there don't seem to be many teenagers taking their place.

Well I've come back into it, the last time I truly played was Rogue Trader and then 2nd Edition, the prices for the models back then were a nice cheap price..imagine the heart attack I had when I walked into my local GW store almost 15-20yrs later... my wallet hurts

I've been back into the hobby for a few months now after a good 13-14 year break.

I first got into wargames at the age of 11 through a wargaming/RPG society my school had back then. We mostly played Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (I was an assassin. What more could an 11 year old boy want from life) but some of the older guys would play 40k. That was during the Rogue Trader days, and I absolutely loved the look of the miniatures. I didnt actually get my hands on a starter set until 4 years later. My brothers and I saved our cash together and purchased the 2nd Edition set. And from there we went a bit mad. But it was easier to save cash up when there's 3 of you! We got our hands on WHFB, Blood Bowl, and my favourite... Epic. The sad thing is, we only really played for about a year. Year and a half at the most. Simply because I discovered booze and erm... substances. And girls were starting to look a whole lot more interesting.

And now, all these years later, I find myself addicted to plastic armies yet again.

I do find myself trying not to venture into the GW store. Not only because things are cheaper got online, but also because I feel pretty out of place there. It really is 99% kids from what I've seen. I've no problem with the young guys getting to enjoy their hobby, more power to 'em, I just dont quite feel comfortable being the almost 30 year old man who plays soldiers with the kids in the shopping centre. And some of the guys who work there can be entirely patronising. I'm sure it just comes from normally dealing with teens and what not, but even so, I dont like being spoken to like a 5 year old.

But yeah, all in all I'm glad to be back! And to whatever-notion-you-have-of-an-underworld with it.... Tau are awesome.

I took about 2 years off while I got divorced and dealt with some family stuff. That said, I haven't actually played a single game yet, and I'm in no rush to do so. i enjoy painting, if I never actually play again I may not actually be bothered by it. The tournament howler monkey crowd just make me leave the room and loking through the books, alot of the rules just make me want to bang my head against the wall over how some of the people on the dev studio manage to exist in society.

But I'm enjoying painting and talking back story with some people at the local GW store.

Forgive me Chaplain for I have sinned, it had been five years since I dropped 40k...

It's funny reading through this thread (great idea BTW Matt, and welcome back). This is a pretty forgiving game to return to. The rules may be different, but usually for the better, or at least simpler (which, at my age, still counts as better).

I started with with Rogue Trader, scraping minis together whenever I'd go on holidays to try and complete a marine, eldar and ork army to get people to play in my small town. I finally gave up after 10 years of frustration and moved on to Real Life TM; marriage, kids etc.

I picked up painting again 8 years later when I moved my family to a new city to start a new job. We had no money, didn't know anyone, and with two young 'uns, I desperately needed a hobby to keepmy sanity. Fortunately Victoria had a couple of good hobby shops, and when I saw the new plastic marines for 3rd edition I fell in love. The detail was superior to the first batch of Teflon-coated dark green Rogue Trader era plastic marines, and miracle of miracles, they didn't repel paint! And instead of wielding planks with banana clips and triggers, the new guns looked like a gunsmith had a say in their design! This was real progress. They were so much fun to build and convert, and didn't even require a Dremel.



I painted again for a few years, but then got tired of new rule versions that didn't add anything to the gaming experience, but seemed more tied to profit schedules. So, I quit as 4th was released, and another five-year hiatus followed.

Three months ago I found my minis while looking for a cooler in my garage, and dusted off the cobwebs. I had built a Rhino before I quit, but never got around to painting it. I thought it would be a fun diversion to slap some paint on it before getting back to my other chores. But I realized how much fun it was, and decided it was time to jump back in. I've already played a few small games, and I'm playing in my first small tournament in three weeks. And having fun

I'm constantly amazed at the entitlement and contempt of players who bitch endlessly about The Evil Empire and it's unreasonable pursuit of Capitalism. If you don't like it, move on and support a company you do approve of, or pick a new hobby. If nothing else, taking a break gives you a chance to reflect on what the appeal of the hobby had in the first place. And if it doesn't, and you find you don't miss it, then it's an opportunity to put your energy towards something that gives back what you need. </esoteric dithering>

Ahhh a gathering of those like myself

I remember White Dwarf when it ran all kinds of roleplay and game stuff rather than just being the mouthpiece for GW.

I started playing with the original Rogue Trader, got myself a few Space Marines and played at a local gaming club for about 6 months before friends drifted away from the hobby and so did I.

About 19 years later and here I am collecting CSM, reading loads of articles on here, learning how to paint and model again and enjoying it all immensely. It is expensive, the stores are full of staff who just don't understand people of my age and assume I'm there to buy something for my kids but it's something I'm glad to have got back into again as it gives me a creative outlet, even if I do suck at the actual game.

for me its been a long gap. I was into WH40k when i was a teenager. I stopped playing when i was at uni and didnt restart roleplaying and tabletop gaming until about 4 years ago when some mates started me playing Magic the gathering. I returned to WH40 about a year or so ago when almost everyone was playing in my generic gaming group. For me having an abundance of spare cash has resulting in a very big unpainted and unassembled collection of armies. When i started again the first kit i bought was an ork stompa. I bought this as it looked like fun to build and paint. I do agree about being a 30year old and feeling like i just cant walk into a GW FLGS and play with a bunch of kids. For me i cant imagine a worse game against a load of kids. For example i went along to a learn the game clinic one sunday at my GW store. I ended up with 1 staff and lots bored 10 year old kids who didnt seem that interested in the rules.

/pauses to check his pocket watch and noting the time, passes out the cognac and cigars.

Gentlemen, this thread makes me happy. Let me propose a toast, To the two tome Realm of Chaos, to Specialist Army Lists in White Dwarf, to the Ambull, to a model without red on it and to a page of new miniatures in a white dwarf that each had an amusing name.

Saluté

Still props to the thread starter
So I went into my local GW store for the first time in 2 months and decide to play my High Elves, the army i'm starting and trying to learn. I have my typical chit chat with the employees, base coat a bit and found the one thing that bothers me about the shop now....

The "new" tournment gamers who think they are great. I was asked to help a guy learn warhammer fantasy, playing 1k of my High Elves vs 1k of his Empire. The new tournment gamers were telling me to flank charge with chariots, and destroy his army. I instead focus on teaching wheeling, combat res, hit modifers, and reading the charts. I was happy to meet someone eager to learn the game, and had fun.

After I attempt to talk to one of the guys who was asking me to smash the learning player. I mentioned that there's times to be competitive, and times to teach and educate on the game. He mentioned "i always smash my opponents." I ask how many events has he won: zero, who many has he placed: zero. I then go onto to mention because guys took time to teach me the game, I grew into someone whose won GT's, RTS's, and lost of events, but my pride in the game comes from teaching others, growing the hobby, and meeting people. He seemed lost in this conversation.

I think the main gap is just that. Newer gamers seem to miss this is a hobby, that you can really enjoy with other people, and its so much more than a "video game on a table." Newer gamers, the beardlings, can't tell you what Primarch was strangled by Horus, what a Squat is, or how cool it was when the original plastic "tan beakie" marines his the shelves!

I have periodic breaks from playing WH40k, but I've been building and painting the models pretty much continuously since Rogue Trader appeared. The longest break was during 2nd Edition, when I felt the game took a bad turn. There was a more cartoonish look to a lot of the models (although Jes Goodwin produced some great scuplts), emphasised by Mike McVey's day-glo painting style. And of course they were still experimenting with plastic minis, so you ended up with units of nearly identical models. The Orks went downhill badly, when Kev Adams left and the Perry twins took over. Their Orks were probably the worst minis they ever sculpted. Meanwhile, the 2nd Edition rules were, while beautifully presented, clunky and unbalanced, and I stopped playing.

I had largely stopped buying the models as well by the time 3rd Edition appeared. This version of the game was a bit of a golden age for me, at least for the first few years. While the codexes were brutally sparse on background, the rules were very dynamic, and the overall look was darker and grittier. Brian Nelson's wonderful plastic Orks appeared, redefining one of my favrourite races. And of course we got the multi-part plastic Marines that became the template for the 'plasticisation' of the WH40k range. I discovered tournament play, then very soon after that I discovered power gaming; at about the same time, I discovered Dakka. At that time Dakka was a fascinating mixture of a core group of New-England-based gamers who knew each other through the original store, a wider and diverse group of members from around the world, many of whom were very talented modellers/painters, and a contingent of competitive gamers who established Dakka's reputation as the best source of advice on playing and winning the game. This was a highly combustible combination of different approaches to the hobby, and the arguments were often fierce, but for a time it was a very inspiring place to visit.

For me, things began to tail off as 3rd Edition morphed into 4th, and it seemed as though GW's support for WH40k had waned. A lot of the WH40k models were getting tired, there were still big gaps in the range, and the Orks in particular seemed to have been all but forgotten. I think GW was going through some restructuring over this period, having (I think) over-committed itself to LotR. Interestingly, Dakka seemed to get tired as well, and it felt as though the anti-GW contingent had pretty much taken over. My interest in WH40k waned as well, and I stopped going to WH40k tournaments and started building Warhammer models (although that never went anywhere). But I sensed a new commitment to WH40k in the run-up to the release of 5th Edition, starting with the new Orks. Even WD seemed to improve, having become little more than a catalogue by then. I think that, in terms of the models, it's something of another golden age. Yes, they're quite expensive now, and in some cases it feels as though we're being gouged a bit. But when you look at what's produced now, the quality is generally such that you can generally be sure that you won't be disappointed with what you do buy. And there are models available which a few years ago were all but inconceivable. Not just massive kits like the Baneblade and the Stompa, but smaller, long-awaited sets like the plastic Grots, or plastic components like the Crusader/Redeemer sprue that have replaced clumsy and fragile metal parts. These new kits have certainly spurred my enthusiasm for the hobby, even if I am finding it hard to get any actual games in. I probably have more projects on the go now that ever before.

On the subject of great models, it's good to see Mastiff around again. I agree completely with this comment:

Mastiff wrote:I'm constantly amazed at the entitlement and contempt of players who bitch endlessly about The Evil Empire and it's unreasonable pursuit of Capitalism. If you don't like it, move on and support a company you do approve of, or pick a new hobby. If nothing else, taking a break gives you a chance to reflect on what the appeal of the hobby had in the first place. And if it doesn't, and you find you don't miss it, then it's an opportunity to put your energy towards something that gives back what you need. </esoteric dithering>

It's perplexing that some people seem to take no pleasure in the hobby, and to resent the company that is responsible for it, yet seem to have such a strong need to communicate that lack of enjoyment and resentment ad infinitum. Some Dakka members are still bitching as enthusiastically (and in virtually identical terms) as they were years ago (there is, for instance, a thread on this page full of moaning about GW's supposed pro-Marine bias that looks like it was copied and pasted from 5 years ago). I can only assume that attacking GW is necessary in order to maintain their online identity, in the absence of anything more concrete to offer.

Coming back to the topic, I must admit it's hard now to deal with the sales patter in GW stores. In most cases, the friendly person who comes up to ask me what armies I play wasn't born when Rogue Trader was released, and it's hard to resist the temptation to sabotage their sales pitch by pointing this out. I'm not sure whether the hobby really caters to players in their 40's, but it's reassuring to see that so many of the people who've posted in this thread are also old geezers.

Oh c'mon lads, it's bloody expensive for what it is.
I love the minis and the gaming afternoons with my mates, but the figures are bloody expensive, the character models are even higher in price. They stated the price of tin was the reason for skyrocketing the metal mini prices then have stated in their financial report that they will move the price of the plastics up to match. Their periodical magazine is nothing more than the plant catalogues you get with the tv guide yet they want to charge an arm and a leg for it. GW have ignored armies they have created and left them adrift (dark eldar, WH, DH, Necrons). As to moving on, I've invested many years custom with that company, I have the right to grumble when they raise prices and don't meet my expectations as a consumer.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Oh c'mon lads, it's bloody expensive for what it is.
I love the minis and the gaming afternoons with my mates, but the figures are bloody expensive, the character models are even higher in price. They stated the price of tin was the reason for skyrocketing the metal mini prices then have stated in their financial report that they will move the price of the plastics up to match. Their periodical magazine is nothing more than the plant catalogues you get with the tv guide yet they want to charge an arm and a leg for it. GW have ignored armies they have created and left them adrift (dark eldar, WH, DH, Necrons). As to moving on, I've invested many years custom with that company, I have the right to grumble when they raise prices and don't meet my expectations as a consumer.

You have a point, now a dad and with a mortgage it's difficult to buy stuff what with the hiked up prices!

MeanGreenStompa wrote:/pauses to check his pocket watch and noting the time, passes out the cognac and cigars.

Gentlemen, this thread makes me happy. Let me propose a toast, To the two tome Realm of Chaos, to Specialist Army Lists in White Dwarf, to the Ambull, to a model without red on it and to a page of new miniatures in a white dwarf that each had an amusing name.

Saluté

Slàinte!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Oh c'mon lads, it's bloody expensive for what it is.
I love the minis and the gaming afternoons with my mates, but the figures are bloody expensive, the character models are even higher in price. They stated the price of tin was the reason for skyrocketing the metal mini prices then have stated in their financial report that they will move the price of the plastics up to match. Their periodical magazine is nothing more than the plant catalogues you get with the tv guide yet they want to charge an arm and a leg for it. GW have ignored armies they have created and left them adrift (dark eldar, WH, DH, Necrons). As to moving on, I've invested many years custom with that company, I have the right to grumble when they raise prices and don't meet my expectations as a consumer.

The right to grumble? Dammit man, you have a patriotic DUTY to grumble if you wish to retain your status as a true wargamer.

But my comment is about people who don't seem to find any joy left in the hobby. Those who treat every piece of news with suspicion or contempt, and who need to derail every thread with their bitterness. Repeatedly. I understand venting, I appreciate the right to register a complaint. But some people seem terrified that a thread exists out there that doesn't have their personal mark on it, their battle cry of "repression!". Bloody peasants.

I was taking a gander through Rogue Trader the other day, probably looking some obtuse fact up, like the BS of a Major Hero Halfling or something, and re-read all the Psionic powers that were available. That was 40K. That and 100 inch diameter off-table Frag missle. Good times.

As for the price increases: Boo-urns! I remember when you got 5 metal guys for $8.99 CAD ( $6-7 US at the time). then they went to Pewter or Tin or something with the promise "It'll be cheaper in the longrun." 20 years later, one plastic guy is $5. Yeah, yeah its a business. Yeah, Yeah. Independent Tourneys that allow you to use non-GW figs are the way to go. Like seriously, who can play VC and field 100 GW zombies unless they are a millionaire?

I realise now that I sound like the Crack addict pontificating against my drug while typing on a Crack specialty forum. Sadness.

Seriously, 100 inch diameter frag missiles.

Yeah, the psionics were pretty creative, but just a wee bit broken. In one game, my opponent used Telekinesis to pick up my land raider and drop it on its side from 30m (or whatever the range limit was). It kinda killed the fun for me. Half my army dea on the first turn, and he didn't even need to roll a single die.

Mastiff wrote: In one game, my opponent used Telekinesis to pick up my land raider and drop it on its side from 30m (or whatever the range limit was). It kinda killed the fun for me. Half my army dea on the first turn, and he didn't even need to roll a single die.

It was probably me.

Cheers for the cigars and drink MeanGreen.

It's funny, last couple of days I've been thinking about that feeling I had when I first read the background in Rogue Trader and was just blown away by the utter misery they'd created. Damn good stuff.

fryxharry wrote:
I don't think the cost of materials has anything to do with the price of a miniature, because raw materials are extremely cheap.

I'd like to mention here that previous oil crisis in the '70s was poison to the model kit makers, for example it drove Airfix - who had almost GW like quasi-monopoly in the market - bankrupt. As costs increased they just had to keep hiking prices until their fanbase walked out.

Hilarious part is that when I started modeling in the '80s, I thought that those kits which previous generation had rejected as horribly overpriced, were really cheap.

These days they cost something like 3-4 times what they costed in my youth...

Geez... I can't believe it took me this long to find the old farts thread. Of course you move slower when you get old so that may explain it.

I started wargaming in my college days... 1982 or so. Wargames back then were mostly card counter and map based games like Advanced Squad Leader and the like. Liking the Sci-Fi stuff the games were a little harder to find... the first thing that really grabbed me was a little game that came in a ziploc baggie called OGRE. That grew into GEV and then some others.

About that time I also took a detour into another sort of game and started D&D and that's where my first foray into miniatures occurred. I was hooked, and hooked hard. Soon I had a whole tackle box (and a big one too) full of monsters and characters and since I had the minis I got to DM. That led to Gamma World and more scifi and more miniatures. Then Star Frontiers and my spaceship minis and all that. Then school ended and I had to go work for a living and my collection became stagnant.

Queue life, marriage, kids, etc. Fast forward about 15 years.

It's 2000-ish and I'm in a Hobby Store looking at plastic model airplanes. The store has a big open back room and I hear a lot of ruckus coming out of the back. It's walled off so I can't actually see, so I go to check out what's happening. There's lots of tables with models all over them and people pushing them around, rolling dice and having a good time. I mosey over to see what they are doing. Being a longtime static modeler it's a foreign concept to see models actually being played with. Oh sure, I took my fighter plane models and swooshed them through the air making "Brrrrrrrmmmmmm" noises, but only when I was alone. These guys were doing it out in the open albeit sans faux engine noises. Some of the models looked damn nice. I decided right then and there I'd buy one, just to build. A particularly swoopy looking tank/APC model caught my eye. It was a Tau Devilfish.

After that I started hanging out, eventually ended up with a Nid army, then some Eldar, then Chaos and the Iron Warriors. Been playing ever since with a slight hiatus when I discovered Track Days for the motorcycle. That's fun but damned expensive ($300+ for a set of tires that last a WEEKEND). I've decided 40K is cheaper and lasts longer, plus when I make a mistake I don't take a ride in an Ambulance.

Backfire wrote:
I'd like to mention here that previous oil crisis in the '70s was poison to the model kit makers, for example it drove Airfix - who had almost GW like quasi-monopoly in the market - bankrupt. As costs increased they just had to keep hiking prices until their fanbase walked out...

As someone who remembers that oil crisis, and had started modelling by that time, I do remember some panic about its effect on plastic kits. And I think the price of model kits rose steeply in the late 1970's (although I think that had a lot more to do with inflation and the strength of the Yen - by then I was buying Japanese kits). But Airfix (who were, as Backfire says, in a very similar position to GW at the time) actually reached their peak during the 1970's. Airfix didn't hit the skids until the beginning of the 80's, and it was due to changes in market trends and lack of focus - problems that periodically hit GW. That's not to say that things like oil price hikes don't hit their prices; while the economic experts on the internet would have otherwise, raw material price increases do affect product prices.

Tailgunner wrote:
As someone who remembers that oil crisis, and had started modelling by that time, I do remember some panic about its effect on plastic kits. And I think the price of model kits rose steeply in the late 1970's (although I think that had a lot more to do with inflation and the strength of the Yen - by then I was buying Japanese kits). But Airfix (who were, as Backfire says, in a very similar position to GW at the time) actually reached their peak during the 1970's. Airfix didn't hit the skids until the beginning of the 80's, and it was due to changes in market trends and lack of focus - problems that periodically hit GW. That's not to say that things like oil price hikes don't hit their prices; while the economic experts on the internet would have otherwise, raw material price increases do affect product prices.

I was somewhat imprecise, as there were in fact two oil crisis - Airfix bought it after the second one in 1979-81. Cost of material is of course only one factor, cost of transportation was probably as big or bigger. Inflation was of course quite high in '70s and '80s and undoubtely influenced the perception of price hikes. When I started building model kits, Japanese ones were not terribly popular amongst us as they were viewed as horribly overpriced...a Hasegawa Bf 109 costed twice what the Airfix one.

Airfix kits are made in China now...despite this, their cost is about threefold compared to that 20 years ago.

The worst thing is that Airfix is still selling the same kits that they did 30+ years ago.

Wow, great thread folks. So good to know I'm not the only grumbly old man who daydreams of a nightmare future.

I got in to 40k in 1989 - shortly thereafter I got the legendary 30 man plastic beakie set and went about destroying it with Testors Enamel paints. Oof. Being 13 and in a rush to play with my guys I did probably the worst paint job ever. I had a friend who played orks, he had a model train set up in his garage and we were able to wage war with only the finest heavy metal playing in the background (IMHO Heavy Metal (esp Metallica and/or Iron Maiden) enhances the game tremendously - at least as far as I'm concerned. In fact I remember flipping through some dumb metal magazine in the early 90's and nearly going into fits when I saw the album cover for a band called BOLT THROWER - it was the cover of the original rogue trader rule book. Talk about get your chocolate out of my peanut butter)

Fast forward twenty years. (yowza). I'm married with child, now work as a writer and yet... 40k's sunk its claws in me and never let go - I always stopped to check in at the game shops just to gawk at the minis and flip through the books, and with the internet its even easier to get lost in the Imperium, and now, being a real live grown-up with a bit more cash than I had as a kid, I went out and bought myself Assault on Black Reach, along with the citadel paints and brushes. That was in December, and I'm almost done painting the Marines, I'll get started on the orks whenever. Its incredibly relaxing and satisfying. My justification to myself is instead of video games I'll paint minis. Life is good.

Anyway, nice to see people who have a similar, laid back appreciation for a unique, fun, fantasic game that's keeping me young.

Any of that brandy left? We ran out here.

Good post. Welcome to the Old Fart's Table.

I have to give GW credit for developing a world that's still strong enough to fire up the imagination after all this time.

So my thoughts turn into a revolution...

Together, brothers, we can bring back the leagues...

Bring back the lock-ins..

Bring back the warmth...

I can't tell you how happy space hulk has made me, the only dissapointment being my friends inability to be challenged....grrr...

I am also really happy because my BB pitch is coming to completion!! My GW manager also said he would give me one table on veterans night for specialist games!! Hahaaa!!!

I told you, it started here, with the wise ones...

Sorry I have not been so active busy with stuff and my net is down for a week or two.

Love you old guys.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Heh... that's me second from the right in the back row with the Crazy Old Man eyebrows.

Games Day 2033

lol! Perfect!

Khornholio wrote:

Games Day 2033

With the cut backs to events, it may very well end up 4 geezers in a field...

mattstone wrote:Ha! so Demo the magic has gone from your life now? Me too...I know exactly what you mean.

I wouldnt say its gone from my life, but it is gone from my 2 main hobbies, Warhammer, and Cars (I was a mechanic for about a year, and since then Ive been buying junk cars, turning them into race cars, then trading up to a not so junk car, turning it into a race car, then getting a decent car turning that into a.... rinse and repeat, started with a civic, im up to a Porsche 944 right now)

but there is one joy that I will never indulge in the creative aspects of, Music.

The whole aspect of mysticism and wonder that slowly fades as you learn about something reminds me of a poem/short story I read back in middle school, it was about a man who as a youth was fascinated by the river, decided to become a sailor, and when he became an old man he lost his fascination. The man resigned himself with the knowledge of being a captain of his own ship, and master of the river.

I am totally with wingedskull on this one - a game of BloodBowl just isn't the same without Whitesnake blaring away in the background! lol

I too have just returned to the hobby - started in '94, was mostly into the specialist games as it happens. Totally in love with Necromunda (Cawdor!) ...and BB of course. I missed Mordheim and GorkaMorka, as that was around the time I drifted away from the hobby. Am I the only one who would love to see a Necromunda re-make?
I wasn't actually a massive 40k fan first time round. I much prefered the fantasy setting, as WFRP was one of the first GW games I played.
Anyway, the missus came home from work one day, saying that she had found a box full of 'those figures you used to play with'. She brought them home the next day and that was it.

I was a goner.

I am now heavily into 40k - all things Orky, in particular (does anyone feel they're a bit 'sanitised' these days? - the current Codex is lacking... something). Luckily a couple of mates got into GW at the same time, as playing in my local store holds very little interest for me. I too find the staff pretty patronising and less knowledgeable than they used to be. Back in the day, to work at GW you had to have an encyclopedic knowledge of like, 4-5 games and excellent painting skills. The last time I went into my local store I asked a question about the 'Righteous Zeal' rule - the kid working there didn't even know what I was talking about! They seem to be there to push product and nothing more these days.

Does anyone else miss Man-o-War (the game not the band)? They brought back Gothic, why not Man-o-War? Or Dark Future? Some of my best High School Memories involve "White Line Fever".

I definitely miss Manowar the band....

Joining this thread kinda late I guess.
Back from a 14yr-ish hiatus.

The thing that pushed me away in 93 was the lack of gaming group support back then.
At that point my gaming group consisted of 4 guys who would takeover a table at the comic store from the AD&D flock.

So painting methods and rule lawyering came down to asking the other 4 guys around the table.

With the advent of Al Gore's invention theres a whole swarm of gamers to argue and brainstorm with. So the experience (cultural assualt) seems so much more varied now.

Glad to be back, even more so with Dakka

Regarding the price hikes and general evil empire bent GW has taken.... I applaud their tactics, but whine about the strain on my wallet.
The detail and quality of the models has increased, and plastic makes conversions simpler.
At least its relatively cheaper than golf/snowboarding/drinking onself to death.

Btw, I think Lamb of God is way more appropriate for 40K........

Nah, mate - Fear Factory for 40K. lol

Standard.

Now someone's mentioned the music I have to wonder what everyone else used to listen to when painting their models.

A friend had done me a tape (yes kiddes, those old C90s) of the early Cult/Death Cult albums which I used to listen to when painting up my beaky space marines.

Funny thing is, years later I bought the CDs (who said home taping would kill music?) and have the albums as MP3s on my computer which I have been playing while painting up my Chaos Space Marines. Other old favourites making a comeback are Motorhead and Iron Maiden and I haven't listened to those bad boys in a very long time.

Anyone else still listening to the same damn music while they paint?

Yes, Curve's album Doppelganger was synonimous with reading Realm of Chaos The Lost and the Damned and gluing together a crazy looking daemon prince made using that minotaur lord with the dragon claw mutation. This weekend I painted the first models I've attempted in over 13 years, a group of 4 orks, I was playing that album again.

No - thank feth!

I used to listen to Whitesnake, Manowar, Deep Purple, Rainbow etc.

Now it's Miles Davis, Kate Bush, Jackie Wilson...

Ahh a thread for us old farts! I no longer feel like a creepy old man hanging out in a place for kids and talking about toys.

I have suffered with the £2000 a year plastic crack habit since i was about 8 years old, I can still remember the first miniature I painted ( a Hobgoblin champion), although sadly i no longer have it. During my time i have lost interest and come back several times but never have i thought of giving it up for good. The girlfriend despairs but as long as I take her out for the odd meal every now and again she doesn't mind how much I spend on "my little men", well as long as I dont try convincing her that Burger King is a nice meal

On the subject of music I tend to stick on a bit of Metallica or Offspring when i want to get some speed painting done, although i normaly just have an old DVD playing in the background or some comedy on the Iplayer.

Whenever i get accused of being a bit sad I ask people what their hobbies are, the general responses are football and/or drinking, i then remind them that at least i have something to show for the money i have spent, other than a beer belly (well i actualy have that too, but there is nothing wrong with having two hobbies is there?)

Its sad that reading this thread i'm remember GW once had a record label... with a band called Bolt Thrower I think.

Also, i'm starting to feel the itch to restart my speedfreaks again...but I need the old RT models... pirate orks in space, so cool!

njpc wrote:Its sad that reading this thread i'm remember GW once had a record label... with a band called Bolt Thrower I think.

Also, i'm starting to feel the itch to restart my speedfreaks again...but I need the old RT models... pirate orks in space, so cool!

Have a look on Ebay, I saw a couple of Bolt Thrower albums on there yesterday!

I have some of the RT freebooterz knocking about somewhere, I really should get them painted and into Badrukks retinue

Ah soo many heat warming stories.

I dropped out when I went to Uni (the red era of WD) and only picked up the odd mini/book since then, keeping an eye on the hobby (I hate the GW conetation of that word!) but not really getting too involved. But having had our first child last Christmas I have found that I am at home more and really re-found my interest in wargaming, much to the Mrs' amusement. ("NOT MOAR WARHAMMERS YOU NERD" as the postman delivers another box) Still she prefers it to me watching TV or getting sloshed at the Rugby club!

Have started stripping almost my entire collection of mini's and am now faced with the mammoth task of painting them, but I should end up with a finely painted (YMMV!) collection of lead armies, including RT ork pirates, RT Imperial Army (inc Beaky marine and squat allies) and WH Imperial Dwarfs! Should be quite nice on the shelf if I can ever manage it! What I would really like is to get a Necromunda campaign up and running, but can't find any players presently (and certainly can't be arsed with going to a GW store).

Finally in honour of this momentous coming together of crusties, fogies, old farts and codgers can I suggest an acronym to be included in Sigs, thread headings and anywhere else you might fancy; this has been blatantly stolen from somewhere else and if you know where then you truly deserve the title of "DDOG" [Dakka Dakka Old Geezer/Gal]

Say it loud and say it proud, I AM A DDOG AND.........ooo cool mini, its shiney, sorry what was I saying? Excuse me I need to use the bathroom.....

I got into the hobby around 20 years ago just starting high school, though at age 11 with limited funds even prices back then it was slow going for em to begin with. But 20 marines for £10 and some of that horrible enamel paint for painting model kits with I fell in love with painting. Getting a job delivering papers opened a whole new world and started playing marines, orks and as soon as white dwarf 127 had hit, eldar as saw the models and fell in love with the aspect warriors and mysterious psykers

With no GW store near back then unless I was able to get to Glasgow or Edinbourgh there were very few gamers around so there was maybe 4 or 5 people I knew for playing against. This continued until 2nd ed was released which I was lucky enough to be earning a little more even though still at school and was able to buy the box set, a load of paints and some characters for armies right away. Stirling got it's own GW a couple of years later and I met new people who played and used to game there when I could work hours permitting. I loved that edition even though too many people abused characters being able to take down entire armies by themselves

Around the time 3rd edition was coming out there was a few problems at the store involving the staff and the preview of the rules left me thinking the game had went downhill. Tanks can't move and fire? Couldn't split fir so that leeman russ' lass cannon was targeting a vehicle while the heavy bolters went for the infantry advancing on it giggling while holding those nasty melta bombs? erm... (something I still dont like but imperfect world.)

Basicly I pretty much skipped 3rd edition and slowly came back when 4th ed 40k was out. Had moved to Huddersfield where I am today and tried it out, rules seemed vastly improved and while I had sold off all my old armies aside from the odd thing here and there I managed to get a dark angels army together again as marines are quick and easy to do and ofcourse the eldar saw me drooling over them again. After a bad experience at the local gaming club (a chaos lord seeming like a 2nd ed character AND moving around 36" after wiping out a squad in CC???) while learnign the rules put me off going for a while and having some problems with my back limited me going out so I was content to just model and paint miniatures when I was able to.

With the new rules set and someone I know down here getting back into 40k got me into it again too. I dusted off the eldar and went for a repaint of the army, though after seeing the current DA codex and comparing it to the current generic marine one I shelved the army thinking they got a little screwed I'm back with an ulthwe force I'm in the middle of getting back on the table since obliterating the Iyanden colours .

I dont go to GW stores anymore, and avoid paying the prices GW now demand for their stuff. Yes the quality has increased in their detail, and sure a business should be making profit, but what they ask for what you get is way out of proportion. Called them reacently to try to order some shrieker cannons for vypers and got told they no longer do individual components, go buy a box set. Summed their new attitude up perfectly and felt like a blow to modellers and a way to squeeze more money from people, buy a kit for one individual piece :(. Still white dwarf and their website no longer try to mask being just a catalogue.
After the way people at the local club rallied around someone cheating they way they did on trying to get back into the hobby 4th ed I'll be skipping touching that gaming club and play with a couple of people once a week or so around our work and family lives at one of our houses. Overall it's nice to see things still going strong, even the first range of aspect warriors have been improved on and some interesting changes to the game to make it more emphasised on your rank and file not your characters. I miss some of the 2nd ed stuff and still think armour modifiers are overall better than AP values for gaming but it's nice to be back and find a lot of people playing, and ebay makes the hobby affordable again
Look forward to chatting on the boards with you all, think I better go make the introduce myself post today finally too

Good to have you on board, fellow veteran!

I've been on a gaming hiatus for a long time. The last games I actually played was 2E, I bought the 3E Ork Codex and the new (at the time) Ork models back in...

....1999 or 2000? I forget.

I've actually played more Bloodbowl and Warhammer Quest than I have WH40K or WHFB.

Now, I have looked up new models every now and then in those years, read a White Dwarf or two, and of course, played DoW games.

What brought me back into the fold was reading Gaunt's Ghost's. Love the books, and inspired me to buy the new Ork Codex, one or two new models, and toy with the idea of collecting a second Blood Angels army (bought a convert BA dread, Corbulo, and Dante on Ebay).

Not sure if I will play any games, but I am enjoying collecting again!

DeathTyrant wrote:
Not sure if I will play any games, but I am enjoying collecting again!

For me, as a beardy fossilised gaming geezer, collecting, painting and modelling are more enjoyable than actually playing. I see these young guys at tourneys flipping out while they are playing and just shake my head, stroke my beard, sip my beer and ask my opponent, "Did I roll for these guys yet?"

I love you people, I actually love you.

With house renovation in mid-stages I'm stranded with no internet still! I'm sorry, the love is there, but not the logistics.

I am waiting impatiently for my Nurgle team to arrive this week, and the first half of the pitch is painted. Everything seems to be coming on nicely in the BB world.

Got the mission V in hulk now, and it's ruddy amazing. I have also coerced a friend into the hobby!

Skills to pay the gas bills.

He just ordered the human team. Boom.

Hopefully before xmas will have some of the digitally photo's for you to look at..

those pictures of GD 2033 made me wet myself. Classic.

Meangreen, Khorn, NJ, Alby, thanks for holding the thread down boys.

And every new veteran welcome to the thread of discerning age and conscious enjoyment.

I'm not to far from you squillerinve mate. Hours drive.

Hey deathtyrant I play BB on a weekly basis, more if I could, and me and a friend from our wee group are planning building constructs (like hallways and rooms) with resin bricks and stuff, should be off the hook, got the tidea off here if I remember right.

Vermillion I tip my hat to you, you sound like an uber veteran.

notprop heart warming is the perfect word, and the perfect way for me to end this, must dash, not my PC, speak soon fella's!

Well, at 28 i'm not keen on joining the DDOG just yet

Having started Playing 40K around the RT era, i fell out with the thing in '96. My local GW (the only flgs at the time) replaced our beloved manager (8 gaming tables, all employees forced to have an army/specialist interest) with a fool.

Any regulars were effectively forced out of the store due to such inspirations as....

Whenever the manger (or his ilk) shouted INCOMING! All, players at a table had to duck to the floor or suffer an instant loss in their game.

No-one could spend more than 30mins at the painting table.

Anyone playing on veterans night HAD to make a purchase in store or be kicked out. (anyone buying say, a pot of paint was told the minimum purchase was £10).

Winning a frienly game against someone just starting the hobby was a bannable offence. (enforced on 2 of my good friends, despite them playing with a 50% point handicap)

Needless to say, such policies got rid of every regular player over the age of 18 in the space of a month. Being slightly younger, i feel that i was afforded a little more leeway than my friends and, as such, tried to persevere with the hobby. The breaking point came when i played one of the store employees in a demo game for a few newcomers: This employee would not measure his moves (instead simply measuring the distance needed to bring his troops into firing range), would roll his dice behind buildings and declare the results to me, and occasionally shout out the good 'ol 'Incoming' whenever it looked like i would kill some of his troops. I tried to point out that cheating was not a good way to enamour new enthusiasts, but was met with blank stares.

Safe to say i lost the game by a distance.

Forgive the rant, there is a happy ending to this.

I recently moved back to my home town a few weeks ago and decided, having been casually interested in the hobby of late, to get fully involved with the local GW.

So far, it has been a joy to interact with. The staff are warm and welcoming whilst still maintaining that 'new customer friendly' atmosphere their management are so fond of. We have a good crowd of regular players who are more than happy to help out any youngsters starting out. Another bunch of us are hoping to start a painting clinic (ala standard bearer) and i can o ly wish good things on GW for their support (atm).

Don't give up on your flgs (even if it is a GW) it can be time time well spent

@J.Black: Why couldn't you simply decide to play with cool people, rather than depending on such a crappy store?

I guess most of us quit playing GW games because we were damned if we were going to support a business that treated people like that, when we collectively spent thousands of pounds there.

OK, right, but the problem wasn't GW - it was the retards running the store.

Take the game home, into the garage / basement / gameroom, and all of the stupidity of the store goes away.

Yeah, a few of us played at each others houses for a while. Problem was that i lived near a very small city and the GW store was the hub that us gamers used to meet and greet new arrivals to the gaming scene.

Not having thntrnteiee back then we lost our main supply of fresh blood and as such, our gaming at each others houses soon became the same 8 or so people with the same armies week in week out.

But, enough of this gloom This is supposed to be a thread about the joys of returning to the hobby!

Yes, GW is still overpriced, pushy, and a big mean corporate money making machine....

....But it's good to be back with a group of friendly gamers once more

Oh, OK. I'm glad that things improved, eventually.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:/pauses to check his pocket watch and noting the time, passes out the cognac and cigars.
Gentlemen, this thread makes me happy. Let me propose a toast, To the two tome Realm of Chaos, to Specialist Army Lists in White Dwarf, to the Ambull, to a model without red on it and to a page of new miniatures in a white dwarf that each had an amusing name.
Saluté

Kanpai!

[sniffs and wipes away a nostalgic tear...]
It was summer (because I wasn't in school), of... 1988 I think. Same year the RTB-01 (plastic beaky goodness) came out. I bought Rogue Trader, RTB01 and a handful of Testors enamels, then proceeded to paint them up in a god awful black and silver paint scheme. The Tyranids wore power armor and wandered around over near the Eye of Terror before it retconned into existence. IG had land speeders, tanks were all scratchbuilt and I converted some of my D&D minis with space marine parts to make... (looks around conspiratorially) Squats.
[sniffs again]
I miss my Squ.. I mean Tyranid food.

For me, it was a stepfather who moved us around like we were Romani. I would just start to get to know the locals and get a game or two in, and then we were off again. That and a general lack of money. I hung in through the start of 2e, got into WHFB for awhile, did some Space Hulk, Talisman, Epic and Man O War. I especially loved Man O' War. But generally ended up staring at my miniatures with no one to play with and just drifted out of it, although I carted my minis and rulebooks around for years, just never unpacked them. About a year ago, a crooked landlord and illness on my part left us with a week to find a place and not much money to do it with. The SO's kids were all moved out, so we ended up in this tiny little 1 bedroom place with a kitchen smaller than the walk in closet in my first house. Ended up giving away almost all of my roleplaying and wargaming things away to people before I moved. Ended up sucked into the DoW RTS (and expansions), and naturally, after I made the decision to not drag the packed up minis along this time, I have decided to get back into the game.

Khornholio wrote:I was taking a gander through Rogue Trader the other day...

I wonder how many of us are guilty of that little pleasure?
I was going through RT yesterday and spent a few hours amusing myself with all the changes that have been made over the... oh crap, it has been decades... Orks who had some semblance of aiming skills. Space Marines who weren't built from indestructium, or 8' tall. Vortex grenades (ok, maybe I don't miss those so much ). Anyone remember the mutation chart? That was great fun.

Khornholio wrote:
Games Day 2033

Hey, the guy on the right, behind his head. It's the new GW "authorized" terrain sculpts. I heard they'll be a sentence in WD about it giving a cover save. And maybe another one about how if it's at home with your friend, you can have it eat everyone on the table. Except Lucius. Or Cypher.

Khornholio wrote:Does anyone else miss Man-o-War (the game not the band)? They brought back Gothic, why not Man-o-War? Or Dark Future? Some of my best High School Memories involve "White Line Fever".

[sniff] I miss Man O' War. It was probably my favorite GW game. I'm sure GW kicked themselves over it, seeing as you could compile a fleet large enough to play with and still have your limbs and custody of your first born. Never could stand the Elven ships though. Always seemed kinda clunky to me.

Natorum wrote:Now someone's mentioned the music I have to wonder what everyone else used to listen to when painting their models...Anyone else still listening to the same damn music while they paint?

Yup. Ministry. Machines of Loving Grace. Skinny Puppy. Especially Skinny Puppy if CSM are involved. I put that CD in on repeat one weekend and went on a 36 hour painting jag for an Epic scale CSM army. To this day, if I hear a song from that album it makes my fingers twitch and want to paint.

njpc wrote:Its sad that reading this thread i'm remember GW once had a record label... with a band called Bolt Thrower I think.

I think a lot of us may remember that actually. Even sadder, I just googled them. They have a web page. Recently updated. http://www.boltthrower.com/news/news.php

I have to admit, I felt a bit of trepidation getting back into things. I walked past the LFGS in the mall a while back and the sheer number of kids who weren't even born when I first started playing was daunting. I started asking myself, "Do I even have a place in this world?" I felt very much like a dinosaur. Or a Squat. Jokes about "uphill both ways through the snow" and snickering at the retcons aside, this thread has probably given me more... I guess "confidence" is the word that I'm looking for. That I'm not alone in a sea of barely pubescent gamers who don't remember a time before Necrons. By this point, I have been excessively verbose, so if I may borrow from MGS, a toast, to all of you, for making dinosaur feel a little more at home.

Kanpai!!

And for the record, I'm pretty sure the Eye of Terror was actually created as a result of the collective mass of the dimensional rips at the bottom of all of our wallets that sucked our money straight into GW's coffers.

The rising prices and bad rules didn't though

I really sympathise with it becoming the same players, same old armies as well, gets very dull and boring after a while.

Any chance o getting some of you fellow dino's to chime in on a post I just made?

[ http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/259737.page ]