Ok, I was reading the what are your vices thread and Almost every other post was about weed, trying to get weed, etc. It seems that a large percentage of Dakka users do weed. Why? I have seen the effects of it (I'm not talking about getting high) and it really sucks. I'm one of the only guys on my rugby team that doesn't smoke weed and oddly enough I'm the one of the only guys on my rugby team that does well in school. This stuff really screws you up, and most people know this. So why do it in the first place? I just don't get it.
Oh, and please keep the discussion civil. This thread shouldn't get locked just for people insulting each other.
It is a recreational drug, the people I know that smoke it do so in a manner much like taking a few glasses of a spirit after dinner. They might sit down to watch a movie and have a smoke or they might have one to relax the day after a night out on the town. I don't smoke it myself, since I personally find it accelerates my heartbeat and leaves me feeling uncomfortable, I prefer a glass or two of port. Simply put, those that use it do so because they enjoy the soporific effects it produces. As to failing at school, I'd suggest some things to you, they are not getting enough regular sleep, they are smoking too much, they aren't focussing or prioritising (difficult to blame the drug for that), they are most likely also drinking...Oh and they are rugby lads, forgive me since I played for my school, but few in my team were academic.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:It is a recreational drug, the people I know that smoke it do so in a manner much like taking a few glasses of a spirit after dinner. They might sit down to watch a movie and have a smoke or they might have one to relax the day after a night out on the town. I don't smoke it myself, since I personally find it accelerates my heartbeat and leaves me feeling uncomfortable, I prefer a glass or two of port. Simply put, those that use it do so because they enjoy the soporific effects it produces. As to failing at school, I'd suggest some things to you, they are not getting enough regular sleep, they are smoking too much, they aren't focussing or prioritising (difficult to blame the drug for that), they are most likely also drinking...Oh and they are rugby lads, forgive me since I played for my school, but few in my team were academic.
I agree with MGS here (maybe you should start a WhatWhat style sig )
Although on his last point i agree yet also find confusing; rugby is traditionally a game for the upperclass lads to play and traditionally is for smarter/better educated people, football is for those common scum .
corpsesarefun wrote:
I agree with MGS here (maybe you should start a WhatWhat style sig )
Although on his last point i agree yet also find confusing; rugby is traditionally a game for the upperclass lads to play and traditionally is for smarter/better educated people, football is for those common scum .
I come from Cornwall, we don't do football there in any big way. Rugby is the game of choice there no matter your class.
And you're making the common mistake of equating a posh accent or public school education with intellect.
From what I've seen of Rugby, it's a bunch of muddy men group-hugging, and they're some business about a ball that seems to be secondary. About weed, I divorced myself from an entire circle of friends because they got into it. I smoked it some, but really got nothing out of it. They all lost their jobs and moved back in with their parents because they lost the ability to do anything but smoke weed, sit on the floor, play endless games of solitaire and watch sitcom re-runs on TV. I have also tried to play warhammer with people who were stoned, and let me tell you, that was a massive waste of time and not in any way amusing or entertaining. Weed makes you stupid, end of story. Stoners don't have wacky adventures like they are portrayed in movies, unless you count the occasional trip to jail.
Something to consider is that tetrahydrocannabinol (aka THC, the active ingredient in weed), is that it has a different effect on everyone, depending on what else they're doing, their blood sugar, and so on.
It won't make you stupid, but if you're already stupid then it'll give you an excuse to stop studying.
It won't make you lazy, unless you're one of those useless people that are lazy anyways so now you won't have a reason to get off the couch. There's lots of people that toke up and then work hard, and there's plenty of people that toke up and then engage in challenging intellectual woke: Carl Sagan liked the pot, for example. My old dealer is currently doing his PhD in astro-physics. I've known professors, businessmen, and working musicians who smoke regularly.
It's not physically addictive, but long term use will affect you much like carrying a heavy weight all the time does. And the psychological addiction of sweetening everything, especially music and other intellectual pursuits, can be very addictive.
It will give you the munchies, so make sure that you have lots of healthy snacks around, particularly fruits and vegetables.
Nurglitch said it best, I really don't have anything to add. Some people can function, some can't. And some people are lazy-assed deadbeats before they even get started smoking.
Personally, I don't like pot. It puts me to sleep, and I hate sleeping.
However, I have more than enough ancillary experience with the drug to know that it doesn't make you dumb. Some of the most intelligent people I know are massive fiends for the stuff.
I think of it as equivalent to, though different from, alcohol. Though that may simply be a justification for this glorious quote:
"An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools." - Hemingway
Yeah, and he also shot himself, but he was a brilliant author. Whether or not the brilliance justifies the transgressions is another matter. Well, actually its this matter, but I don't have a particularly objective justification, so I'll leave it to you folk.
Edit: Something I forgot to add is something that goes for all drugs (including alcohol), and that commonly gets ignored: how you experience drugs and how much you enjoy them depends very much on your situation and company. If you do them with boring people, or in a stressful situation, or what have you, you're not likely to enjoy the effects of the drug. If you do them with interesting people, in a nice situation, then you may mistake your enjoyment of the situation for the effects of the drugs.
I was watching a anti-pot documentary on YouTube the other day, Australian I think. Seriously unconvincing tripe, most of the cats that I know that smoke are normal everyday folk, and many are normal everyday hippy-folk too.
I think it is no different than alcohol, but the side effects are quite different. No one, I repeat NO ONE should smoke pot while using complicated machinery.
People react differently to the stuff, and in all honesty as with alcohol you should be mature enough to be taking the damn stuff. Funny though that I hardly see any stoners (like real stoners, not Harold and Cheech... Cheech is a pretty cool guy though) causing a ruckus. I remember seeing kids get in trouble while drinking when I was in High school at the local punk club, The Gilman. Dismal place really, but it was quite funny that the stoners were the ones that managed to make it home safe every night.
The gateway drug thing is a huge joke IMHO, Crystal meth has taken over that role quite nicely if you can even convince me in the slightest that pot is actually a means to a drug ridden end... seriously, freaking, slowed scare tactic. If someone has issues and they start to do drugs they will run into serious problems like doing stuff like heroin; but blaming pot for the entrance to this life is totally ludicrous, most kids start with alcohol, and this is no secret.
warpcrafter wrote:About weed, I divorced myself from an entire circle of friends because they got into it. I smoked it some, but really got nothing out of it. They all lost their jobs and moved back in with their parents because they lost the ability to do anything but smoke weed, sit on the floor, play endless games of solitaire and watch sitcom re-runs on TV. I have also tried to play warhammer with people who were stoned, and let me tell you, that was a massive waste of time and not in any way amusing or entertaining. Weed makes you stupid, end of story. Stoners don't have wacky adventures like they are portrayed in movies, unless you count the occasional trip to jail.
Yeah, but the people you're talking about are all heavy users. In that way pot is no different to alcohol, because if you do nothing but sit around drinking all day your life will end up in shambles. It's the focus on one recreational thing to the exclusion of everything else, and not the drug itself that's the problem.
I've known a whole lot of pot smokers, if I think back through highschool, uni, sporting teams... probably in excess of three hundred. Of all of them three, arguably four, used pot to excess. One had serious emotional problems and used a whole lot of other drugs to excess, a couple were your classic lazy ass pot heads who were lazy before they got their hands on pot, and one is the strangest person I've ever met. She's currently living on the streets, eating from the bins of supermarkets - she has money in the bank and more than a few people who'd put her up, she just wants to experience life on the streets. But in no case was pot the thing that suddenly turned them from having regular lives, the writing was already on the wall.
Now, some of the 300 pot users I mentioned above did use pot stupidly, driving after getting completely baked for example, but they were the same idiots that got really drunk and then drove.
dogma wrote:Yeah, and he also shot himself, but he was a brilliant author. Whether or not the brilliance justifies the transgressions is another matter. Well, actually its this matter, but I don't have a particularly objective justification, so I'll leave it to you folk.
There is a long tradition of artists of all types being dope fiends and drunks. I don't know whether it's causative (being an artist makes you a dope fiend, or being a dope fiend releases the imagination and makes you artistic) or whether it is just a matter of great artists having a high public profile, or whether the traditional artistic lifestyle attracts dope fiends and drunks.
I don't smoke it now, but I was freshly baked when I had access to it for quite a while. I've seen it pull people under just like booze can. But I'd rather hang out with a Pothead than a drunk. Playing WFB baked was one of the things that got me right back into gaming But like with anything, age slows you down. Gone are the days of powering back that 11th pint to go outside and sit in someone's car for a session.
As for the Academic point of the OP, I have three degrees and I was pie-eyed like 85% of the time. It all depends on the individual, their attitude, their tolerance and the receptors in their brain.
This entire debate is easily condensed into:
Understand the difference between recreational use and harmful abuse. If you can enjoy something without habit forming, without harm to anyone else, then make your educated personal choice. If you break the law, understand the penalties and understand the risks before hand, rational if it's really worth it to feel moderate euphoria for a while.
Also...
Khornholio wrote:I have three degrees and I was pie-eyed like 85% of the time.
Agreed with MGS here. There is a huge difference between indulging in something in reason and abusing it. It sounds like the people many have described here have simply crossed that line.
Alcohol, over the counter medication and even food have damaging effects when their consumption is taken to extremes. Doesn't make these things inherently wrong though.
I myself smoked a moderate amount of dope at university. Wasn't an everyday thing but I certainly did get stoned about once a week on average. I did see people who took it to extremes and yes the effects where were fairly horrible. One ex friends of minds mood swings got so bad he once tried to attack his girl friend and she had to call the police. I never saw him again and It was just as well.
Personally though I have no regrets, I can honestly say I enjoyed smoking it, even though I'm glad I stopped when I did. I also feel I can comment on the marijuana debate with a little more knowledge.
It's the people who abuse dope that give the rest of us a bad name
On a more serious note, my cousin went mad (for lack of a better description) about a year ago, something which we suspect was accelerated, if not caused, by his heavy use of the drug. Knowing that, and seeing the kind of person he's become, does not change the fact that when taken sensibly in good company, it's a very enjoyable drug.
To address the OP: in my experience, dope only screws you up if you abuse it or if you're screwed up already. People take it because they like to get high.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:This entire debate is easily condensed into:
Understand the difference between recreational use and harmful abuse. If you can enjoy something without habit forming, without harm to anyone else, then make your educated personal choice. If you break the law, understand the penalties and understand the risks before hand, rational if it's really worth it to feel moderate euphoria for a while.
Also...
Khornholio wrote:I have three degrees and I was pie-eyed like 85% of the time.
As for as drugs go, marijuana is the healthiest and safest one available of the drugs most commonly used. But just like anything in life, including Warhammer, if you abuse it you can feth yourself over except with weed you get the additional drawback that its illegal.
And for many MJ users, it actually helps in terms of focus and getting gak done.
Its only a matter of time before its legal across the USA if California and Denver are any indication. Can't wait!
MeanGreenStompa wrote:This entire debate is easily condensed into:
Understand the difference between recreational use and harmful abuse. If you can enjoy something without habit forming, without harm to anyone else, then make your educated personal choice. If you break the law, understand the penalties and understand the risks before hand, rational if it's really worth it to feel moderate euphoria for a while.
Also...
Khornholio wrote:I have three degrees and I was pie-eyed like 85% of the time.
RELEASE THEM AT ONCE!!!1!
Crippen!!!
Khornholio is in the front row of the audience!
If I don't have a tape measure in my hand, or a mitt full of dice, that song describes my intoxicated alter-ego to the last quantum irregularity.
You only served to prove my point spartan, most drug users think it's okay or justify the reasons, most people who don't use drugs think it's a bad thing to do or that it affects them.
There is no middle ground in a discussion made of two polar sides. All that matters, is taking certain drugs has consequences, both in legal terms and life terms. If you take them, far ram you, you'd better be able to accept the consequences if and when they arrive.
It doesn't matter if it's beer, wine, weed, coke, spanking hoes or breaking into houses to nick car stereos; you have to be prepared to pay the price, whatever it may be.
Alot of attitudes present in drug culture or those who are deviant towards social standards are what annoys me personally, not the act itself. If you think it's blase and okay to drink like a fish, flaunt the law, take drugs and think there's no consequences and 'alchohol is a worse drug,' then when the time comes for your life to be messed up because of your actions, it'll only mean it hurts twice as much.
This isn't directed at you personally; but the various themes of 'drugs make you feel untouchable, but infact, you're twice as brittle' present in media campaigns have never been anything other than the truth.
So you have never taken any antibiotics, painkillers or anesthetics (at hospitals)?
People who make massive generalisations without thinking are just as bad as serious drug addicts for society...
Shamfrit wrote:You only served to prove my point spartan, most drug users think it's okay or justify the reasons, most people who don't use drugs think it's a bad thing to do or that it affects them.
There is no middle ground in a discussion made of two polar sides. All that matters, is taking certain drugs has consequences, both in legal terms and life terms. If you take them, far ram you, you'd better be able to accept the consequences if and when they arrive.
It doesn't matter if it's beer, wine, weed, coke, spanking hoes or breaking into houses to nick car stereos; you have to be prepared to pay the price, whatever it may be.
So you used him for your point, that started with an abrupt spanking earlier in the thread... yes, I said a spanking, a seven word post spanking... oooh a spanking .
You sir, are... just wanted t say You sir.
I am not sure why you feel the way that you do, but your presentation trumps itself mate. All drugs are bad is one of the worst lines I ever hear, try to survive without any form of drug, then come back and put your experiences in a thread about AA, not pot.
MA is a massive joke overall, but in some ways it does serve a purpose... like making kids feel really really bad about themselves... and now you victimize and miscategorize the pot and the user all over again... If you did some of your own research without cherry picking data you would find that pot is not the danger zone that most present it as, but everyone is entitled to their own irate opinions... for instance I still believe the moon is made of cheese, goat cheese to be exact, and I plan on installing a cracker factory up there at some point.
I really don't want to get into a long and lengthy debate, I've got a whole year of discussing Carl Jung's research into the habitual lives of the 'Pot Smoker,' and allot of years ahead of me getting into the same debate over, and over, and over again.
All drugs are bad, all of them, disregarding legality, alter the way our natural systems work, they alter chemical receptors, change thought and immune system, inhibit and contain our ability to feel, process and heal. Of course, some drugs are required, medical uses for example. But even then alot of drugs that help medical conditions CAN, in small circumstances, be just as harmful as not taking them.
I've never taken 'illegal' narcotics, and never have I been compelled to do so. I don't wish to risk any form of criminal conviction or involvement with the police, mainly because joining the police is one of my key career aims, specifically detective/statistic and criminologist research. That doesn't mean I am simply a paper and pen pusher tossing statistics left and right, I know all too well the dangers of substance misuse (which does not specifically limit itself to legality) and I stand by my earlier comment.
I was not ready to accept the consequences of drinking, and of not being able to contain that addiction, and so the fallout was twice as hard and twice as dangerous, to all involved. I continue to drink responsibly and sparsely now having accepted the consequences, and will be prepared to do so in the future.
In our capitalist age, I think Caffiene, not alchohol, is the more disruptive. We're ever pushed further to working beyond our means, living beyond our means (another thread in itself) and to perform outside of our creative fields. It's not hard to see why, on the one hand, crime is dropping, but on the other, more and more people are turning to perceived solutions to the strains of our current age. We all need a release somehow, I respect people for being able to find one, I'm still searching, but justifying the use of a narcotic, be it caffiene, paracetamol or weed, has not, and never will be, in my book, the best solution to any problem.
It's no wonder drug use is on the rise, and whilst I think legalising ANY currently illegal drug is a very complicated mine field none of us are qualified to address, it is certainly a conversation that needs to take place.
Shamfrit wrote:I really don't want to get into a long and lengthy debate, I've got a whole year of discussing Carl Jung's research into the habitual lives of the 'Pot Smoker,' and allot of years ahead of me getting into the same debate over, and over, and over again.
You should probably choose a different career path since you don't seem to enjoy the debate.
Shamfrit wrote:
All drugs are bad, all of them, disregarding legality, alter the way our natural systems work, they alter chemical receptors, change thought and immune system, inhibit and contain our ability to feel, process and heal. Of course, some drugs are required, medical uses for example. But even then alot of drugs that help medical conditions CAN, in small circumstances, be just as harmful as not taking them.
All drugs affect our system. That doesn't mean they're bad. Alteration does not equal harm without significant support.
Shamfrit wrote:
I've never taken 'illegal' narcotics, and never have I been compelled to do so. I don't wish to risk any form of criminal conviction or involvement with the police, mainly because joining the police is one of my key career aims, specifically detective/statistic and criminologist research. That doesn't mean I am simply a paper and pen pusher tossing statistics left and right,
Yes, it does. Sorry.
Shamfrit wrote:
I was not ready to accept the consequences of drinking, and of not being able to contain that addiction, and so the fallout was twice as hard and twice as dangerous, to all involved. I continue to drink responsibly and sparsely now having accepted the consequences, and will be prepared to do so in the future.
I thought all drugs were bad. God, you're such a bad person for drinking. Bad, bad, bad....
Shamfrit wrote:
In our capitalist age, I think Caffiene, not alchohol, is the more disruptive. We're ever pushed further to working beyond our means, living beyond our means (another thread in itself) and to perform outside of our creative fields.
Means? We have the means to consume caffeine. Why is that not considered a component of our capability? Don't respond with an argument from nature, that argument is worthless.
Shamfrit wrote:
It's not hard to see why, on the one hand, crime is dropping, but on the other, more and more people are turning to perceived solutions to the strains of our current age. We all need a release somehow, I respect people for being able to find one, I'm still searching, but justifying the use of a narcotic, be it caffiene, paracetamol or weed, has not, and never will be, in my book, the best solution to any problem.
Violence is good option, 'natural' too.
Shamfrit wrote:
It's no wonder drug use is on the rise, and whilst I think legalising ANY currently illegal drug is a very complicated mine field none of us are qualified to address, it is certainly a conversation that needs to take place.
False modesty, especially when projected, is dumb.
There is nothing to be gained from doing weed, or any illegal drugs for that matter. What does it do besides feth with your system? Sure, it might give you pleasure for a while, but then you need more to keep it up and that's more money wasted. You could say that alchohol is worse, but alchohol is sold over the counter and is far easier to regulate because you can keep track of who purchased it. Weed, being illegal, is generally only purchased from people who grow it in secret, and you'd have no idea what that money is getting spent on.
I haven't met a pleasant person who does drugs. I've met a lot of stoners, both teenagers and adults, and they're not very nice people to be around, not because they're rude or anything, but they always reek of pot and look terrible. I don't think marijuana should ever be legalised anywhere, because study proves that it does have negative effects on your body and it's responsible for generating a lot of 'dirty money'.
It seems that both sides of the debate are a bit off the mark. Most people against pot are people who've had bad experiences (mental diseases), people who've seen the negative effects on high levels, and people who learn what they know about it from study and observations. Most of the people for pot are stoners or people who haven't suffered the negative effects.
Now, whether you've had negative effects or not should have no bearing on the argument. Science proves that it's harmful, and it's harder to regulate at the moment than alchohol anyway.
Besides, if you're doing pot, and not as a teen 'experimenting', to relax for example, then there's something wrong with you, as there are much less harmful and more beneficial ways to relax or relieve pain. You've got to ask yourself; is it worth risking my physical and mental health for a brief pleasure?
Cheese Elemental wrote:I haven't met a pleasant person who does drugs.
Could you define what you mean by "doing drugs"? It seems to me that most people, when they think of a drug user, imagine someone that uses drugs regularly and frequently. Undoubtedly this is true for a lot of people. I personally have smoked weed on only a few occasions, and though I have no qualms about smoking it in future, I have no desire to go out and get some RIGHT NOW. I prefer to get it when we have a party planned, or just if there's some being passed around. Do I count as a drug user?
Come to think of it, do I count as a pleasant person?
I suppose I should clarify I bit; I meant someone who does drugs on a regular basis, a stoner, not someone who does it once-off at a party (although that could lead to worse things).
Well I can agree with you there; in my experience, regular use doesn't tend to encourage positive characteristics in people. Once again (and it's worth restating), it depends on the user.
You know, I find it really hard to communicate with users, not because they're stoned, but because I don't know what to think of them. They might not necessarily be bad people, and my Christian beliefs preach tolerance, blah blah blah, but the arrogant side in me wakes up and looks down on them as lowlifes. I've got friends who do pot once in a blue moon at wild parties, but they're still good people. We've all done something bad in our formative years, whether it be getting drunk, getting stoned, or watching porn (guilty on all three charges ), but it's when I see adults who are obviously users that I get really pissed.
Does it make me a bad person that I don't consider those things bad (in moderation)?
I know several people, adults and younger, who use weed, and I don't consider any of them bad people. Apart from the ones I'd consider bad people regardless. Maybe it's a matter of perspective: fairly strict christian vs whatever you'd describe me as.
My opinion is that use of drugs doesn't make a person "bad", but bad people will tend to use (and abuse) them.
Well when I was a stoner I got stoned on most weekends. Washed my clothes and made sure I didnt smell before going home, this was so I wasnt caught but I didnt realy want to smell of weed.
What you described Cheese I think of as a "Druggie" There people who do weed all the day and do other drugs.
smiling Assassin wrote:I have 3 relatives, Paranoid Schizophrenic, all after smoking pot.
I had several friends all like this, too.
In all cases, their schizophrenia was latent, only brought to the fore by their toking. It wasn't caused by it (it ran in their families - the schizophrenia, not the toking).
Three of them had full-on psychotic breaks - two even killed themselves. Do I blame the drugs? No.
These people were like this before the drugs - it was bound to become active at some time anyway - stress, work, whatever. The trigger events are many and varied. Also given their personality types, they would've used ANY other drug to get high, from Qaaludes to whiffits, if they couldn't get dope.
I've used. It puts me to sleep. Boring.
I prefer alcomahol. It's NOT a drug. Yes, it's an intoxicant, but it is technically a metabolic poison.
Cheese Elemental wrote:There is nothing to be gained from doing weed, or any illegal drugs for that matter.
And yet people continue to use them. Clearly they are getting something out of the act.
Cheese Elemental wrote:
What does it do besides feth with your system?
I needs to do something else?
Cheese Elemental wrote:
Sure, it might give you pleasure for a while, but then you need more to keep it up and that's more money wasted.
As opposed to all that money that you might put towards a new computer, or television. Clearly those are more worthy cash sinks.
Cheese Elemental wrote:
You could say that alchohol is worse, but alchohol is sold over the counter and is far easier to regulate because you can keep track of who purchased it. Weed, being illegal, is generally only purchased from people who grow it in secret, and you'd have no idea what that money is getting spent on.
Do you know what the money you spent of your computer is being spent on?
Cheese Elemental wrote:
I haven't met a pleasant person who does drugs. I've met a lot of stoners, both teenagers and adults, and they're not very nice people to be around, not because they're rude or anything, but they always reek of pot and look terrible. I don't think marijuana should ever be legalised anywhere, because study proves that it does have negative effects on your body and it's responsible for generating a lot of 'dirty money'.
The money won't be 'dirty' if its legal. That said, there are plenty of legal substances which have lots of negative side affects; so that's hardly a damning point.
Cheese Elemental wrote:
It seems that both sides of the debate are a bit off the mark. Most people against pot are people who've had bad experiences (mental diseases), people who've seen the negative effects on high levels, and people who learn what they know about it from study and observations. Most of the people for pot are stoners or people who haven't suffered the negative effects.
That's far too simplistic to be considered a useful analysis.
Cheese Elemental wrote:
Now, whether you've had negative effects or not should have no bearing on the argument. Science proves that it's harmful, and it's harder to regulate at the moment than alchohol anyway.
And?
Cheese Elemental wrote:
Besides, if you're doing pot, and not as a teen 'experimenting', to relax for example, then there's something wrong with you, as there are much less harmful and more beneficial ways to relax or relieve pain. You've got to ask yourself; is it worth risking my physical and mental health for a brief pleasure?
It seems like you've spent far too much time swimming in misinformation to form anything approaching a well reasoned opinion.
Drug is a propaganda based term that is totally reliant on contextual relevance.
If I decide that shoes are a drug, I would be entirely wrong, but I could provide a rational argument that would prove I am right in a specific set of guidelines.
When you begin to speak about narcotics specifically, then you are starting to make sense, but you will still end up basing most of your opinions on other opinions. All chemicals are in some way a drug (obviously) but most are not narcotics, which is itself still quite a loose term.
As you begin to take into account information that does not link directly into your pre-conceptions, you can get a clearer view of the entire spectrum. So if I have shoes, and these shoes are no more important than any other shoes, I can create a pre-conception due to the fact that I did not define what constitutes importance. In this conversation "importance" would mean "level of bad" for some, whereas I know that no shoe is the ultimate shoe, and I am better off being happy in the shoes that God... erm, the shoe store sold me, and happy in the shoes that I have purchased.
I have little information confirming that users of marijuana are generically lazy and generally worthless (however you define this term). Most of what I see and find only serves to confirm the fact that most fear is based on a biase we choose to incorporate into our lives. Just as a "druggie" (funny term... like a... wait, no not like anything really ) "chooses" (in some ways we make "predetermined" choices due to our situations) to use "drugs", people that look down from such great heights do so in much the same way. This part of the debate is rather pedantic IMHO, and most definitely personal; this is the same way with people and any life choice really. You are who you are, and any choices you make directly present an alternate perspective for you to make decisions, like water and the waves and stuff... mmmmm, marshmallows.
Eat, drink, and do what you like, maintain a reflection of your piece in the pie, your little blueberry that most people choose to ignore for themselves.
Wrexasaur wrote:If I decide that shoes are a drug, I would be entirely wrong, but I could provide a rational argument that would prove I am right in a specific set of guidelines.
When you begin to speak about narcotics specifically, then you are starting to make sense, but you will still end up basing most of your opinions on other opinions. All chemicals are in some way a drug (obviously) but most are not narcotics, which is itself still quite a loose term.
As you begin to take into account information that does not link directly into your pre-conceptions, you can get a clearer view of the entire spectrum. So if I have shoes, and these shoes are no more important than any other shoes, I can create a pre-conception due to the fact that I did not define what constitutes importance. In this conversation "importance" would mean "level of bad" for some, whereas I know that no shoe is the ultimate shoe, and I am better off being happy in the shoes that God... erm, the shoe store sold me, and happy in the shoes that I have purchased.
I think Wrex is on drugs right now. And he's trying to smoke his shoes.
Nice... he even talks about the... anyway, please enjoy dem riddim... not a fan of cowboy music, but a beer never hurt. Sound like a good line for a song .
Alcohol makes you super smart and super reactive, now with 2000 on the end to make it that much more stupidendous... yes I said it.
Yep... yep... yep... arooni 5000, because 2000 just sounds wimpy by comparison.
It's been used as early as 7,000 B.C. Hemp creates a multitude of products other than the euphoric drug it is infamously known for today.
The hemp plant was first regulated and then outright banned in America thanks to racists and cotton lobbyists back in the early 1900s.
If weed was legalized, it would open a massive market, filled to the brim with new jobs for the American people.
Seriously, think of all the jobs it would create.
The farmers and hired hands.
Massive refineries.
Dispensaries for the drug.
Clothing stores would carry hemp products.
These would be all over the nation. And it would make a huge boost to other existing markets as well for example; 7/11 and White Castle would explode with business.
Hemp used as the euphoric drug would be taxed at said dispensaries as well as a special state-issued license to carry and distribute the drug would be necessary (Make it illegal to own more than 1 pot plant per household.) With dispensaries out and about, this reduces crime as drug lords get their money supply essentially cut off. The only problem I foresee is the first few years dispensaries get knocked off or become targets of criminals in some of the worse-off neighborhoods. The tax money provided by these dispensaries would allow the state to hire more police officers to protect the streets.
The states and banks make money, new jobs and a new market are created, people can once again sleep easy at night knowing they aren't going to get shot, so everybody wins.
If weed was legalized, it would open a massive market, filled to the brim with new jobs for the American people.
****No there wouldn’t be. Even you’re right, we don’t make anything anymore anyway. Same Southeast Asian wage slaves would make it.
Seriously, think of all the jobs it would create.
***Like, none?
The farmers and hired hands.
***Already grown
Massive refineries.
***Were you high when you typed that?
Dispensaries for the drug.
***Walmart
Clothing stores would carry hemp products.
***Nope. Synthetics are way cheaper.
These would be all over the nation. And it would make a huge boost to other existing markets as well for example; 7/11 and White Castle would explode with business.
***Meh.
Hemp used as the euphoric drug would be taxed at said dispensaries as well as a special state-issued license to carry and distribute the drug would be necessary (Make it illegal to own more than 1 pot plant per household.) With dispensaries out and about, this reduces crime as drug lords get their money supply essentially cut off. The only problem I foresee is the first few years dispensaries get knocked off or become targets of criminals in some of the worse-off neighborhoods. The tax money provided by these dispensaries would allow the state to hire more police officers to protect the streets.
***I’m down with this.
Orkeosaurus wrote:I don't think legalizing weed would be any sort of massive renaissance.
However, I don't see a good justification for arresting the people trying to smoke it either.
Word. The Libertarian in me says the harmful effects should be ilegal (and are). Tax it and treat it like ciggies.
Yep, dunno about the US cops but the guys I know in the force are fed up of the shifting laws here and just want it decriminalised totally or better still legalised and taxed. Considering the problems we have on the streets with alcohol fuelled violence every Friday and Saturday night and the time involved for the police, ambulance and hospitals, they are really looking forward to everyone just going round to each others houses, smoking pot, eating KFC and chocolate and watching scary movie whilst giggling. I am amazed at the number of people I know on a daily basis who, it then turns out, smoke pot.
Legalise, tax and use the tax for policing, health care and social care.
It's been used as early as 7,000 B.C. Hemp creates a multitude of products other than the euphoric drug it is infamously known for today.
The hemp plant was first regulated and then outright banned in America thanks to racists and cotton lobbyists back in the early 1900s.
If weed was legalized, it would open a massive market, filled to the brim with new jobs for the American people.
Seriously, think of all the jobs it would create.
The farmers and hired hands.
Massive refineries.
Dispensaries for the drug.
Clothing stores would carry hemp products.
These would be all over the nation. And it would make a huge boost to other existing markets as well for example; 7/11 and White Castle would explode with business.
Hemp used as the euphoric drug would be taxed at said dispensaries as well as a special state-issued license to carry and distribute the drug would be necessary (Make it illegal to own more than 1 pot plant per household.) With dispensaries out and about, this reduces crime as drug lords get their money supply essentially cut off. The only problem I foresee is the first few years dispensaries get knocked off or become targets of criminals in some of the worse-off neighborhoods. The tax money provided by these dispensaries would allow the state to hire more police officers to protect the streets.
The states and banks make money, new jobs and a new market are created, people can once again sleep easy at night knowing they aren't going to get shot, so everybody wins.
Wow I think like Frazz said(LOL Frazz) you were high when you typed all that. That's a nice eutopian/shangrila vision you have there. It really worked well for the most popular drug out there called Alcohol. Also since there is such a backlash against tobacco use right now, it would really help our health care system out a lot to have millions of new pot heads to take care of....NOT.
Marijuana is already America's leading cash crop so it'd literally add much needed billions to our failing economy. As for the health drawbacks, marijuana isn't smoked at the quantity found in fags nor does it have to be consumed by smoking - you can always vaporize or eat marijuana after all.
And the biggest bonus? More prison space for real criminals and the millions/billions that the black market makes off of MJ would nearly be eliminated.
Orkeosaurus wrote:I don't think legalizing weed would be any sort of massive renaissance.
However, I don't see a good justification for arresting the people trying to smoke it either.
Word. The Libertarian in me says the harmful effects should be ilegal (and are). Tax it and treat it like ciggies.
Indeed. Two pics to summarize the clarity of such actions, like fish in a barrel some of these problems are.
Yes, you hit the nail with the hammer... just hit it goddamit!!!
You know the saying way to cool to be true? This is way too awesome and effective to be false... we will have these someday, not the magical kind though, the kind that everyone has so that no one can actually be as awesome as a Jedi. Yoda wins this time!!!
The thing is, it's against the law. Now I understand that not all laws are truly beneficial, but not smoking weed doesn't hurt anyone. It's the law so you should follow it.
That's just what I think.
What happens when a law causes more harm than it remedies? The amount of money being spent to jail "pot criminals" is absolutely ludicrous. Why is it important to jail some person who likes their life choices?
That is basically what the drug war is about, but it becomes a bigger problem with something as benign as marijuana. I am neither for or against the legalization of all drugs (I would need a lot more information) but pot is a no-brainer.
IMHO jail is a place for real criminals, not petty drug users. Perhaps there could be alternate options (which there are...) used to take care of this issue, but the amount of taxes and general economic booster pack (like the tiny health packs in games... not the big ones ) that would provide a natural stimulus (not artificial) and an outlet for some of this countries unemployed, at least ten thousand jobs can be created within the first year. More than that may stretch the limits of the industry.
I think that it is more important to legalize Hemp, and this has to do with self reliance that has been so willfully touted throughout the health care debate. Even if this change only manages to provide direct access for a few small companies, it will provide a viable alternative to synthetics in the market.
Cotton is super-outdated stuff, but I still prefer Hemp fibers to Synthetic. The feel is very important to me; the texture rather.
After a few seconds of thought I know that there would not be all that much change to the economy overall, but it would provide a way for people to be more independent in the U.S.
Agreed. The laws for marijuana are far to strict for such a benign drug. We learned about it in class and I forgot the exact number but for just a few grams you can get a couple years in federal prison. It is ridiculous.
I find it some what funny that during the founding and formation of the U.S,it was comman practice for each farmer to grow a certian amount of marijauna to help the economy, and that,alegedly,a large portion of the "founding fathers" smoked weed.
Also,it wasn't until the 1930 (IIRC) that laws were passed making marijauna illegal,in Jello Biafras speach before a gathering of NORMAL supporters,he speculates that Dupont chemichels,who at the time had just developed a new paper pulp processing treatment,wich would yield the company millions,had a hand in getting marijuana laws passed ,as they didn't want any competition from hemp production.
Other speculations are made,including certian political parties needing a "bugaboo" to scare voters into supporting them,with promises that they (the politicians) would "protect Americas youth" from marijauna,a few years later "Reffer Madness" was released.
Of course today none of this particurly matters,marijauna is against the law...not that that law has been all that efective in curving it's useage.
I for one havn't used weed in several years,but have no problem with those who do,so long as they don't decend into the "idiot stoner" realm,I belive also that marijauna should be legalized and the revenue generated by it's growth and sales used for various needed programs.
Frazzled wrote:****No there wouldn’t be. Even you’re right, we don’t make anything anymore anyway. Same Southeast Asian wage slaves would make it.
The US is actually very competitive when it comes to the manufacture of cash crops. While wages are higher than elsewhere, productivity is much higher than in Asia. Right now the US produces about 400 thousand tonnes of tobacco a year. If you legalised dope you could manufacture a substantial dope industry.
I agree with you that hemp probably isn't the wonder textile so many potheads claim it is, but it will have a place if weed was legalised... turning waste into secondary products is a big deal. But your efforts to say 'nuh uh, nope, there's no possible economic benefit from a legal weed industry' is just wrong.
The problem with legalizing weed is that it really will not create this massive amount of revenue that the politicians here in CA are telling us. I'm all for legalization, but I honestly don't think it will happen because nobody will make any money from it.
Think about it, you couldn't just grow your own tobacco plants, harvest, dry, and smoke it. It's a ridiculous amount of work.
Same goes for brewing your own beer, I know people who do it, but it's a pain in the ass.
Pot on the other hand is pretty simple to grow. Get a momma and a poppa plant, wait for your buds, hang em up and stick em in the freezer. If pot were legalized, the market would be flooded with it. Hell, I don't even smoke and I'd grow it just because. Granted, the market would be filled to the brim with bunk weed, but it would be about the same as it is now, brown weed is alot cheaper than green, which is cheaper than purple or orange.
The thing is, there'd be no way to tax it, because there'd be no realistic way of regulating it. It's like trying to stop free music downloads. And since they can't viably tax it, they can't make money. Say what you want about liscences, and "authorized" dispensiaries, but unless every cop is going to stop every smoker and ask them for proof of purchase, they simply can't control it.
The only difference we'd see by pot being legalized is that the true criminals like the gangs and cartels would lose all of their influence to a free market saturated by internet taught botanists, and mom and pop growers.
And that is why they won't do it, the government makes more money by keeping it illegal by allocating and throwing more and more money each year into police departments and a beurocracy. That and it's a nice black and white issue for politicians to get behind and drum up votes.
If weed were legalized it's my opinion that it would quickly become a non-issue, and that is the biggest reason it never will. (/rant)
It just couldn't be taxed a billion zillion percent, like some idiots think. There's always going to be economies of scale on the side of official sellers, so from then it just comes down to how much the tax is offsetting that.
True, some people would still go to dispensaries. Laziness would eventually set in, and people would just hit the drive thru for a dime sack (an exaggeration.) But I still think it would be incredibly lopsided in favor of home-growers.
People can brew their own beer right now but few do. There is a big difference between the kind of people who will buy the right lights and fertilisers for their plants and the type of people who figure they might as well smoke something before heading into town for the night.
Sure, lots of people will grow their own weed, but I doubt it will represent the majority of the market, because at the end of the day the cheapest and easiest way to get something is to drop by the local store and buy the product supplied by some mega-corp.
whatwhat wrote:Weed is overated. Makes for bad sex and weight gain. End of.
Imo alcohol and fags are just as bad if not worse in this area; just saying. Well, cigs don't really affect sex but for many MJ users it amplifies the senses and takes sex to another level.
R3con wrote:All I know is that if I smoke during a 40k game I usually end up losing my mind=)
Fixed that for you.
Yes your opponents can hear you muttering your master plan about how you are going to totally pwn them... totally pwn... Anyone feel like prawns? I don't really feel like a crustacean right now... interesting.
whatwhat wrote:Weed is overated. Makes for bad sex and weight gain. End of.
Imo alcohol and fags are just as bad if not worse in this area; just saying. Well, cigs don't really affect sex but for many MJ users it amplifies the senses and takes sex to another level.
lmao yeh that great aphrodisiac marijuana, that look of complete absence on your face must make her go wild.
whatwhat wrote:
lmao yeh that great aphrodisiac marijuana, that look of complete absence on your face must make her go wild.
As opposed to having vomit dripping down your chin? Any intoxicant produces problem in the course of physical activity when you use too much of it. Saying weed ruins sex, while other drugs enhance it is just utter stupidity; especially given the subjective nature of the experience.
rubiksnoob wrote:The thing is, it's against the law. Now I understand that not all laws are truly beneficial, but not smoking weed doesn't hurt anyone. It's the law so you should follow it.
That's just what I think.
In general people should obey the law, however large numbers of people simply don't believe that smoking pot is wrong.
rubiksnoob wrote:The thing is, it's against the law. Now I understand that not all laws are truly beneficial, but not smoking weed doesn't hurt anyone. It's the law so you should follow it.
That's just what I think.
In general people should obey the law, however large numbers of people simply don't believe that smoking pot is wrong.
It is indeed matey. They've been monkeying around with the law on it's classification recently, but it remains illegal without prescription (Class 'C' if you're wondering) as far as I know. Might have been reclassified as Class 'B' (you can get nicked for posession without being compulsory prosecuted).
Marijuana itself does have many medical benefits of course, but smoking Green or Resin has other hazards. The bits that work on the pain centres in the brain bugger about with other parts you don't really want buggered about with. I believe the reclassification was done to permit licensed growing for the express reason of medical research (like isolating the good, ditching the bad)
Cannabis used to be a B, then the Government downgraded it to C, which meant that police could more or less turn a blind eye if you had only enough for personal use. They would probably give you a caution, confiscate the stash and go off to chase some burglars.
Last year the Government did a consultation about whether to reclassify pot as B, and the overwhelming response from the scientists and police, etc, was to keep it at C. So they changed it to B again.
There's no evidence any of this has made any difference to the way people use pot in real life.
Fire Effect, if you're going to jump onto a single comment without reading further clarification or discussion, don't expect a syrsily syrsis response.
whatwhat wrote:
lmao yeh that great aphrodisiac marijuana, that look of complete absence on your face must make her go wild.
As opposed to having vomit dripping down your chin? Any intoxicant produces problem in the course of physical activity when you use too much of it. Saying weed ruins sex, while other drugs enhance it is just utter stupidity; especially given the subjective nature of the experience.
Tell me dogma, when did I ever say other drugs enhanced sex? Is it just me or are 90% of your posts just negative contradiction?
whatwhat wrote:Weed is overated. Makes for bad sex and weight gain. End of.
Imo alcohol and fags are just as bad if not worse in this area; just saying. Well, cigs don't really affect sex but for many MJ users it amplifies the senses and takes sex to another level.
lmao yeh that great aphrodisiac marijuana, that look of complete absence on your face must make her go wild.
Haha yea if you're stoned out of your mind it will definitely impair things but at that point you're on the verge of passing out anyway! Having sex while high is grand though
whatwhat wrote:Weed is overated. Makes for bad sex and weight gain. End of.
Imo alcohol and fags are just as bad if not worse in this area; just saying. Well, cigs don't really affect sex but for many MJ users it amplifies the senses and takes sex to another level.
lmao yeh that great aphrodisiac marijuana, that look of complete absence on your face must make her go wild.
Haha yea if you're stoned out of your mind it will definitely impair things but at that point you're on the verge of passing out anyway! Having sex while high is grand though
I once got high and masturbated. Fell asleep halfway through, then woke up and finished. True story. I don't miss getting high, but I do have a bag full of ice-breaking stories from my stoner days.
I smoke pretty frequently. I usually am stoned when I draw or paint. the enhanced perception of color is nifty and I find I can work longer without getting bored. Of course the down side of that is the eight hour drawing sessions which are hell on my wrist.
(maybe you should start a WhatWhat style sig 
)
.
), but it's when I see adults who are obviously users that I get really pissed.
