As you might know, Wargames Factory (www.wargamesfactory.com) has a program where fans suggest kits and once they get 1000 commitments to buy they'll make it.

One of the most successful (after zombies) is Sci Fi Greatcoat troopers. Well after months of waiting the prototype is finally posted.



Thread is here:
http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/2009/01/29/sci-fi-greatcoat-infantry/page111/#post14683992

Not bad but, is he waiting for a passing Chimera to stop and pick him up?

My questions are: Is the backpack separate? And are the arms separate?

Because if so, awesome. This plus Cadian = wicked cool.

I'll be swapping out the gun and removing that fugly backpack, but it's otherwise great.

This kit + some Cadian bits = WIN.

M.

So far this is all we got. Now the plan was always for multipart ones comperable to GW so I'd say seperate arms and heads are certain, with seperate legs and backpacks probable.

The talk is 3 bodies plus 'the works' in terms of weapons and bitz. Rifles, plus an RPG and some sort of phallic energy weapon.

WGF prices are usually around $5 per sprue, which means 9 (or 12) for $15, compared to GW's 10 for $25.

Hopefully more details are coming soon.

I assume this is a prototype, as the finish looks rather rough. But this is a good example of why, for all the whining about their models, GW is actually ahead of everyone else when it comes to producing plastic fantasy models. Setting aside the fact that it's not done in the chunky GW style, the sculpting on this model isn't great (it's very static looking), and the design isn't very inspired (the body armour is particularly unconvincing). It's not bad, but it looks like the metal sci-fi models from 25 years ago. If and when GW produce palstic Guardsmen in greatcoats, they will be superior to this.

Tailgunner wrote:I assume this is a prototype, as the finish looks rather rough. But this is a good example of why, for all the whining about their models, GW is actually ahead of everyone else when it comes to producing plastic fantasy models. Setting aside the fact that it's not done in the chunky GW style, the sculpting on this model isn't great (it's very static looking), and the design isn't very inspired (the body armour is particularly unconvincing). It's not bad, but it looks like the metal sci-fi models from 25 years ago. If and when GW produce palstic Guardsmen in greatcoats, they will be superior to this.

Surely the GW models will be superior, but they will also cost quite a bit more. I would like to have one of the thumbs up ones just as a curiosity.

FINALLY! Man, these guys are gonna look good. I assume the roughness is because of it being a prototype, but these guys are gonna be great kitbash fodder.

From WGF:

As promised, here's a look at a prototype figure that's been base-coated to highlight some of the details. Interested in your thoughts - and THUMBS UP!

d
Keep in mind - this is a prototype - so the detail isn't as crisp as it will be in the final plastique.

Not entirely sold on it yet. I suppose it is a prototype and I'll reserve my final judgment after I see the finished product.

Sold.

Enhancements will be sort of a given with this mini (especially adding backpacks- I think the fuggly bit on the back of this one is actually just bulky back armor). But I will be far, far happier using my bitz up to enhance this cheaper kit than I would working up GW Cadians that cost $25 per box.

If WGF wants to get a serious stranglehold on GW for greatcoat sci-fi models, they need a price point that blows away GW's by enough to compensate for armies being tourney-illegal. $15 for 12 would certainly do that.

Are there any plans to sell seperate heads? Not in plastic obviously, but a lot of people would probably go for a variety of gasmask heads, like were shown as concept art a while ago.

hmm, not quite what I would have picked for sci-fi Germans in great coats, but it does look pretty good. Hopefully it will be compatible with pig iron and other separate head systems. Not to mention GW bitz.

The helmets are a big plain. Was expecting a bit more than just sci-fi Nazi.

I'm sold! I think the figure has the look of being in a battle rather than the typical prim and proper look of the Cadians... (and don't start me on the 'super steroid' Catchans!)
Mick

I'd like to see more of the sprue, but I'm glad they ditched some of the early designs and consolidated into this one. Looking forward to seeing the finished product, and I'll probably pick up a pack or two.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The helmets are a big plain. Was expecting a bit more than just sci-fi Nazi.

I'm quite happy they didn't go over the top with this and made sci-fi Nazis. This might be enough to convince me to waste money on an IG army.

I was just expecting something a little better than 1940's style metal helmet w/gasmask.

The backpack needs some work and I think the armor needs to be moved up the arms a bit. mostly pretty good though.

Looks like I'm gonna have to collect an army after all.
They'll really need some GW bitz to fit in properly tho. Lasguns and belt pouches are a must, and the brass etch aquillas will come in handy too.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The helmets are a big plain. Was expecting a bit more than just sci-fi Nazi.

WW1 =/= Nazi

Me =/= Not an idiot, Orlanth.

He's carrying a slightly altered paratrooper rifle FFS. He's a Space Nazi.

Why couldn't they be a little more inventive.

Chest armour looks a bit weirdish, otherwise though, I kinda like em.

Hmm...

Does Me =/= Not and idiot mean what I think it means,

WOW,
Your first idadvertant (or at least one I spotted) jab at your own intelligence

:p

Does anyone else think they look a bit small compared to the size of that Slottabase?

I reckon cadian arms and heads are gonna look REALLY big on that body...

H.B.M.C. wrote:Me =/= Not an idiot, Orlanth.

He's carrying a slightly altered paratrooper rifle FFS. He's a Space Nazi.

Why couldn't they be a little more inventive.

Because that's basically what I submitted when I put in the original idea and what most of the forum goers over there wanted.

Even then, the only thing that's WW2 german specific is the rifle (again proposed and debated on the Wargames Factory forums), the helmet originated in WW1 and the uniform and armor isn't really very reminiscent of the Germans in particular (everyone had greatcoat uniforms), actually if anything it's closer to the late war soviet assault engineers.

Oh look, a moon nazi with a G46 rifle.

From WWI no less.

The front armour is close to WWI trench raider armour, the back looks like an early lifejacket, the helmet looks German from the front but not from the back as it is to long (and by the way not all the Wermacht were Nazis) and the rifle looks like a British SLR.
I think the figures would go well with the Forge World IG either as allies or against them (as the FW seem to be based on WWI French).
Mick

ArbitorIan wrote:Does anyone else think they look a bit small compared to the size of that Slottabase?

I reckon cadian arms and heads are gonna look REALLY big on that body...

They are out of scale with everything GW has ever made and thus useless for 40k, yes.

Guys, it´s a prototype, we don´t know if the sculptor will keep the same proportions or make it a little bit bigger, different armor style, change the gun... can you at least wait until the figure is finished?

Agamemnon2 you have been against this project since almost the beginning, we already know that you dislike the figure since it was a mere CG design. Do you have something against WF or it´s simple negativity?

M.

Miguelsan wrote:Guys, it´s a prototype, we don´t know if the sculptor will keep the same proportions or make it a little bit bigger, different armor style, change the gun... can you at least wait until the figure is finished?

It'd be pretty useless as a prototype if it wasn't a fair representation of what the finished product will be like. Also, if people have problems with the design, this is exactly the time they should speak them out, while there's still the tiniest shred of a chance some of them might be rectified. Even better, where were these people six months ago when the project was still undergoing design work?

Miguelsan wrote:Agamemnon2 you have been against this project since almost the beginning, we already know that you dislike the figure since it was a mere CG design. Do you have something against WF or it´s simple negativity?

You must have me confused with some other Agamemnon2. I don't have any particular problems with this project itself, though I think it's foolish of WF to try to cater to the whims of a bunch of whinging 40k players so blatantly. Especially since the suitability of these figures as IG proxies has become the sole design criterion which will make or break this product.

Yup, prototype looks cool enough to use with GW parts, and the price is right, so now we need to see a size comparison on GW Cadiens. If the finished product will mesh up pretty well, I would buy.

Craptacular!

Like previous WF stuff I find this mediocre, really... even for a prototype of cheap minis... I pass.

Nurgleboy77 wrote:Craptacular!

NAVARRO wrote:Like previous WF stuff I find this mediocre, really... even for a prototype of cheap minis... I pass.

QFT. The heads are alright...but the "greatcoat" looks more like a skirt. You could do a better job using the legs from High Elf archers and a cadian torso.

Agamemnon2 wrote:You must have me confused with some other Agamemnon2. I don't have any particular problems with this project itself, though I think it's foolish of WF to try to cater to the whims of a bunch of whinging 40k players so blatantly. Especially since the suitability of these figures as IG proxies has become the sole design criterion which will make or break this product.

So catering to a ready-made market is catering to the "whims of a bunch of winging 40k players" is it? And basing the design of said product upon the desires of this ready-made market is somehow... bad?

Explain that to me.

Prototypes are that, so they can iron out the defects and in the case of WF unless GW to listen the feedback before going to the finished product.

Perhaps I´m confused by your comments in the other thread.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/231825.page
Quite a few were kind of disheartening from my POV but I might be wrong. My excuses if you truly didn´t mean to write them the way you did.

M.

Miguelsan wrote:Prototypes are that, so they can iron out the defects and in the case of WF unless GW to listen the feedback before going to the finished product.

M.

Yes thats the logic, the problem is when finished product looks as bad as this prototype.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:You must have me confused with some other Agamemnon2. I don't have any particular problems with this project itself, though I think it's foolish of WF to try to cater to the whims of a bunch of whinging 40k players so blatantly. Especially since the suitability of these figures as IG proxies has become the sole design criterion which will make or break this product.

So catering to a ready-made market is catering to the "whims of a bunch of winging 40k players" is it? And basing the design of said product upon the desires of this ready-made market is somehow... bad?

Explain that to me.

In this case it is bad, yes, because the people who most want "greatcoat guard", i.e. IG players, will not be satisfied with models of this quality or proportion. They wanted a cheaper alternative to Death Korps, or something to use existing IG parts with in conversions and this isn't it.

Scaled them so the base diameter is exactly the same. Looks like a decent match to me. The legs are a bit shorter.

lord_blackfang wrote:Scaled them so the base diameter is exactly the same. Looks like a decent match to me. The legs are a bit shorter.

That's very helpful. And it also demonstrates just how much better the FW models are - better detail, better sculpting and (perhaps most importantly) better designed - they're clearly based on WWI soldiers, but they combine the features of more than one army (essentially French and German), rather than being thinly disguised WWII Germans. Granted they're incredibly expensive, but you get what you pay for. GW's eventual plastic Guard will be cheaper than FW's (and less detailed) and more expensive than this prototype, but they'll be better. And thus worth paying more for.

Wow, the DKOK guy totally kicks ass by comparison. Not even close on quality.

The mini looks great but its a bit too late for me since I've already converted a bunch of greatcoat guard.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Wow, the DKOK guy totally kicks ass by comparison. Not even close on quality.

Or price, won't these guys be selling for a fraction of DKOK?

Cane wrote:The mini looks great but its a bit too late for me since I've already converted a bunch of greatcoat guard.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Wow, the DKOK guy totally kicks ass by comparison. Not even close on quality.

Or price, won't these guys be selling for a fraction of DKOK?

For a fraction of a price, you get a fraction of the awesomeness.

The choice is yours.

I don't think anybody expected to get FW quality models on a $5 plastic sprue in the first place.

But I have to admit that WF plastics aren't anywhere near the quality other small manufacturers produce. For example, Mantic Games is a brand new company and their very first sprue blows anything done by WF out of the water
http://corvusminiatures.blogspot.com/2009/08/preview-mantic-games-elves.html

whitedragon wrote:For a fraction of a price, you get a fraction of the awesomeness.

The choice is yours.

I totally agree here. And I very much appreciate the side-by-side comparison. I got pretty excited when Pig Iron came out with their Greatcoat Guardsmen until someone pointed out to me just how much more detailed the DKoK models were. Okay, these guys are plastic. That's great, but again, just like with Pig Iron's guys, they're nice, but not fantastic, but will be a much more reasonable price.

Honda makes a decent car, not as nice a Jaguar. But you're going to pay for it. I have some figs from WF for kit bashing I think the quality is good. If sales are good enough on the initial sprue for them to make heavy and special weapon sprues I think they will sell quite a bit.

It's pretty unreasonable to expect injection molded plastic to have the same level of detail as well done resin.

I like him. I'm broke at the moment, and don't need another horde anyway, but if I was doing Gaurd I'd consider it.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Me =/= Not an idiot, Orlanth.

He's carrying a slightly altered paratrooper rifle FFS. He's a Space Nazi.

Why couldn't they be a little more inventive.

As opposed to GW and their WW1-based Leman Russ Tanks? The comparisons between the Guard and WW2 Era Soviet tactics? Catachans and Rambo? What's "inventive" in your eyes? Creating a super race that has absolutely no ties to the real-world past (or present)? Where else does most inspiration come from if not from past armies...?

Rico...

JohnHwangDD wrote:Wow, the DKOK guy totally kicks ass by comparison. Not even close on quality.

It's ah, not supposed to be. One is resin model costing about $65 for a squad of 10, the other is plastic (and *still* a prototype) going to cost like $12 for 10.

This thread demonstrates that sometimes people with no modeling/converting skill will crap on something rather then see the potential for creative expression.

I'd be curious to see a fully converted and kitted out IG model using it as a basis with GW bits, etc. and will pass on judging what amounts to a conversion component as far as its use w/ 40K is concerned until then.

Though it is fun to crap on someone Else's work to be sure.

Ahh Dakka... you can just feel the love...

Man, the whinging in this thread (at someone else rather then GW!). The model looks good for the price. The fact that he just looks like a moon nazi is laughable, what were you expecting DKOK, who IIRC are SS clone nazis..

Get off the fat that there space nazi, and rejoice for great coat guard oppurtunity.

Ah yes, the internet rule where you can't comment on something unless you've done it yourself.

Go fish.

CT GAMER wrote:This thread demonstrates that sometimes people with no modeling/converting skill will crap on something rather then see the potential for creative expression.

I'd be curious to see a fully converted and kitted out IG model using it as a basis with GW bits, etc. and will pass on judging what amounts to a conversion component as far as its use w/ 40K is concerned until then.

Though it is fun to crap on someone Else's work to be sure.

Ahh Dakka... you can just feel the love...

Was just about to say the same sort of thing myself. This thread is the sort of thing I expect to see on a fanboy site like Taco rather than Dakka. If you guys who are comparing the figure to FW and can afford a FW IG army fair enough but us mere mortals have to seek cheaper alternatives. Anyway, if your using them in a horde style IG army are tiny details going to needed or even be noticed?

Mick

I like the figure shown. Granted the figure seems to have dusty primer on it.

It looks like it would work equally well with 40k or any Weird War 2 game.

Artizan has some that look similar, but chunkier.

CT GAMER wrote:This thread demonstrates that sometimes people with no modeling/converting skill will crap on something rather then see the potential for creative expression.

I'd be curious to see a fully converted and kitted out IG model using it as a basis with GW bits, etc. and will pass on judging what amounts to a conversion component as far as its use w/ 40K is concerned until then.

Though it is fun to crap on someone Else's work to be sure.

Ahh Dakka... you can just feel the love...

Its called having a opinion about something... but if you want to act like the primadona uber skilled person who can see the true beauty on a turd then be my guest

And now Im going to be a ass.... I would not trade my skills for yours yet I judge what I see according to my tastes... see? has nothing to do with skills or artistic nonsense but rather your preception on something.

Its not a question of having fun to crap on someone elses work... Thats maybe just your kind of artistic behaviour... to crap on everyone elses legit opinions about something that will be put on sale for all to buy.

Mick A wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:This thread demonstrates that sometimes people with no modeling/converting skill will crap on something rather then see the potential for creative expression.

I'd be curious to see a fully converted and kitted out IG model using it as a basis with GW bits, etc. and will pass on judging what amounts to a conversion component as far as its use w/ 40K is concerned until then.

Though it is fun to crap on someone Else's work to be sure.

Ahh Dakka... you can just feel the love...

Was just about to say the same sort of thing myself. This thread is the sort of thing I expect to see on a fanboy site like Taco rather than Dakka. If you guys who are comparing the figure to FW and can afford a FW IG army fair enough but us mere mortals have to seek cheaper alternatives. Anyway, if your using them in a horde style IG army are tiny details going to needed or even be noticed?

Mick

I dont get this... If something is mediocre I should nail if its GW and hail if its nonGW? At the risk o being labeled fanboy? Jezzz you guys need to change medications fast! If its a subpar product I dont care who did it, i will just nail it. Thats why I try to promote MERCS and INFINITY as great products...as much as I do it with SOME gw stuff.
Lacks Tiny details?... rofl like 28mm of them

Mick A wrote:If you guys who are comparing the figure to FW and can afford a FW IG army fair enough but us mere mortals have to seek cheaper alternatives. Anyway, if your using them in a horde style IG army are tiny details going to needed or even be noticed?

I think Mick is right. It's an opportunity for gamers with a smaller wallet, for converters or for guys that are looking for some "meat" for the trooper ranks of their FW/GW army. I think the work should be judged according to that frame.

Yep. I'll be getting a bunch of packs.

Yea I'll probably be pick up a pack or two to make some Conscripts; can't ever have enough of those!

Vaktathi wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Wow, the DKOK guy totally kicks ass by comparison. Not even close on quality.

It's ah, not supposed to be. One is resin model costing about $65 for a squad of 10, the other is plastic (and *still* a prototype) going to cost like $12 for 10.

Why should plastic be inherently worse than resin?

After all, we've already seen that the resin Thunderhawk is "better" than the metal one, and the plastic Valk is "better" than the resin one.

The sculpting design of the plastic model can be quite better - just look at the 1/35 Tamiya / Dragon figures in plastic.

I think your enjoyment of these figures will depend on if you take an individual figure or army approach. If you want figures that look nice individually, and you are going to lavish care on them, spend the extra $ and get something better. If your focus is having a complete army that looks a certain way (moon nazi or whatever) than figures like this are a great value. Great detail is only great if you're going to take the time to paint it - or its easily drybrushed.

I'm interested in them only so far as I can use them to build my long considered "heavily armored short range human elite warrior" army that is as far from the metal Sisters of Battle as I can get.

Tailgunner wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:Scaled them so the base diameter is exactly the same. Looks like a decent match to me. The legs are a bit shorter.

That's very helpful. And it also demonstrates just how much better the FW models are - better detail, better sculpting and (perhaps most importantly) better designed - they're clearly based on WWI soldiers, but they combine the features of more than one army (essentially French and German), rather than being thinly disguised WWII Germans. Granted they're incredibly expensive, but you get what you pay for. GW's eventual plastic Guard will be cheaper than FW's (and less detailed) and more expensive than this prototype, but they'll be better. And thus worth paying more for.

In your (not so) humble opinion.

Combine it with the forge world cadian upgrade = Win

This level of detail (or lack thereof) is a nice base to add a few small bitz to.

For those of us who want horde IG infantry armies but can't afford to drop a thousand bucks on them, it looks like a nice start. Also, I'd feel terrible about buying FW DKoK and then speed-painting them, which is the only way that I (and most low-level GW hobbysists) will ever get 100+ of these suckers done up.

BTW, for those interested in bargains on Krieg, I do suggest you check out the Gorgon passengers cut-ups that some folks like nathonicus have done on here. Halves the price or so for your rear-rankers, and gets you some casual poses to mix into your force.

NAVARRO wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:This thread demonstrates that sometimes people with no modeling/converting skill will crap on something rather then see the potential for creative expression.

I'd be curious to see a fully converted and kitted out IG model using it as a basis with GW bits, etc. and will pass on judging what amounts to a conversion component as far as its use w/ 40K is concerned until then.

Though it is fun to crap on someone Else's work to be sure.

Ahh Dakka... you can just feel the love...

Its called having a opinion about something... but if you want to act like the primadona uber skilled person who can see the true beauty on a turd then be my guest

And now Im going to be a ass.... I would not trade my skills for yours yet I judge what I see according to my tastes... see? has nothing to do with skills or artistic nonsense but rather your preception on something.

Its not a question of having fun to crap on someone elses work... Thats maybe just your kind of artistic behaviour... to crap on everyone elses legit opinions about something that will be put on sale for all to buy.

Mick A wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:This thread demonstrates that sometimes people with no modeling/converting skill will crap on something rather then see the potential for creative expression.

I'd be curious to see a fully converted and kitted out IG model using it as a basis with GW bits, etc. and will pass on judging what amounts to a conversion component as far as its use w/ 40K is concerned until then.

Though it is fun to crap on someone Else's work to be sure.

Ahh Dakka... you can just feel the love...

Was just about to say the same sort of thing myself. This thread is the sort of thing I expect to see on a fanboy site like Taco rather than Dakka. If you guys who are comparing the figure to FW and can afford a FW IG army fair enough but us mere mortals have to seek cheaper alternatives. Anyway, if your using them in a horde style IG army are tiny details going to needed or even be noticed?

Mick

I dont get this... If something is mediocre I should nail if its GW and hail if its nonGW? At the risk o being labeled fanboy? Jezzz you guys need to change medications fast! If its a subpar product I dont care who did it, i will just nail it. Thats why I try to promote MERCS and INFINITY as great products...as much as I do it with SOME gw stuff.
Lacks Tiny details?... rofl like 28mm of them

LULZ

Neconilis wrote:

Tailgunner wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:Scaled them so the base diameter is exactly the same. Looks like a decent match to me. The legs are a bit shorter.

That's very helpful. And it also demonstrates just how much better the FW models are - better detail, better sculpting and (perhaps most importantly) better designed - they're clearly based on WWI soldiers, but they combine the features of more than one army (essentially French and German), rather than being thinly disguised WWII Germans. Granted they're incredibly expensive, but you get what you pay for. GW's eventual plastic Guard will be cheaper than FW's (and less detailed) and more expensive than this prototype, but they'll be better. And thus worth paying more for.

In your (not so) humble opinion.

A nasty one-liner instead of a reasoned response - good to see standards being maintained. What exactly is it you disagree with? Or do you judge the models purely on how much they cost?

I know this is a proto type , but still im disappointed.
Not because of the price , or anything ...
Its just while the concept phase was still going around , i have seen MANY MANY great ideas . Its a shame that they seem to have discarded them all and went back to the ( WW1 you guys say? ) look.

lord_blackfang wrote:

Scaled them so the base diameter is exactly the same. Looks like a decent match to me. The legs are a bit shorter.

The FW is definitely a better modelled model, but that example has to be one of the worst poses that FW has come up with; the soldier is resting his hand over the business end of his las! Maybe he's hoping to be sent to the rear for awhile.

Better than clogging the thing with dirt...

DId you make those? They are not even GW models. Not that GW makes the greatest models, but these look like crap. Someone would have to pay me just to have them take up space in my house. Those are uglier than the OLD cadian models from two dex's ago.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Better than clogging the thing with dirt...

Amen.

Tailgunner wrote:A nasty one-liner instead of a reasoned response - good to see standards being maintained. What exactly is it you disagree with? Or do you judge the models purely on how much they cost?

Maybe it had something to do with the ridiculous assertion that you consider GW's upcoming plastic Guard (which most likely does not exist) to be better in quality to these (an aesthetic judgement on models which you've never seen), and worth the extra money, too.

Tailgunner wrote:

Neconilis wrote:

Tailgunner wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:Scaled them so the base diameter is exactly the same. Looks like a decent match to me. The legs are a bit shorter.

That's very helpful. And it also demonstrates just how much better the FW models are - better detail, better sculpting and (perhaps most importantly) better designed - they're clearly based on WWI soldiers, but they combine the features of more than one army (essentially French and German), rather than being thinly disguised WWII Germans. Granted they're incredibly expensive, but you get what you pay for. GW's eventual plastic Guard will be cheaper than FW's (and less detailed) and more expensive than this prototype, but they'll be better. And thus worth paying more for.

In your (not so) humble opinion.

A nasty one-liner instead of a reasoned response - good to see standards being maintained. What exactly is it you disagree with? Or do you judge the models purely on how much they cost?

You're the one determined to get the jabs in against these figures from how I see it, and yes, cost is always the biggest factor for me, and that is my opinion. I just hate to see opinions being stated as fact. If it wasn't done deliberately or in an adversarial manner I apologize, but all you did was to state opinion as fact and that always irritates me to no end.

Rico wrote:What's "inventive" in your eyes?

Vostroyans!

They were one of the few times where GW has made John Blanche's artwork (however much I hate the way he draws) leap off the page and become miniatures. Sci-Fi Laser guns with wooden stocks on guys with futuristic gasmasks and armour over the top of old dusters and beef-eater helmets. And they were the most non-derivative Guard unit in existance, considering how all the others are just a historical army unit ported over to 40K like a bad X-Box-to-PC port.

Anyway, I'm not saying that these Space Nazi's are bad models - I've only seen one and unlike Aggy I like to see a little big more before I declare something the (new) doom of mankind - I just don't like what I've seen so far.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Tailgunner wrote:A nasty one-liner instead of a reasoned response - good to see standards being maintained. What exactly is it you disagree with? Or do you judge the models purely on how much they cost?

Maybe it had something to do with the ridiculous assertion that you consider GW's upcoming plastic Guard (which most likely does not exist) to be better in quality to these (an aesthetic judgement on models which you've never seen), and worth the extra money, too.

Thank you for that Agamemnon2.

They look promising to me. I quite fancy some of them. Unlike *some* on Dakka I don't get particularly invested in my models - they're just gaming pieces for a game. Sure I like them painted reasonably, but I'm not into converting and I like to play lots of games not just 40k. That means I don't want to spend a crap ton of money on a project when I'm only likely to get a few games a year out of it.

So cheap IG proxies work fine for me.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Wow, the DKOK guy totally kicks ass by comparison. Not even close on quality.

It's ah, not supposed to be. One is resin model costing about $65 for a squad of 10, the other is plastic (and *still* a prototype) going to cost like $12 for 10.

Why should plastic be inherently worse than resin?

After all, we've already seen that the resin Thunderhawk is "better" than the metal one, and the plastic Valk is "better" than the resin one.

The sculpting design of the plastic model can be quite better - just look at the 1/35 Tamiya / Dragon figures in plastic.

It's not necessarily the materials, although Resin IMO does work better for more detailed models in terms of durability, but the idea behind it. It's not supposed to be super high quality materials and super high detail figures. They are supposed to be low cost models that look somewhat decent that can be bought cheaply to attain a certain army theme without having to spend exorbitant amounts to buy the other similar styled models.

Yes, the Krieg look better. I own a ton of the guys. There's a reason I do. That said, I'd love to have a ton of cheap greatcoats as well, and these would work great for a low cost greatcoat army and could still be painted up to look solid without costing as much as a new computer for a whole armies worth.

As a cheap basis for converting, using GW bits or Pig Iron or whatever, to create a greatcoat horde army for 40k, these figures will be an excellent choice due principally to the very comfortable price. Those seeking a considerably higher detail and no conversion need will have to pay more and buy the forgeworld models.

Neconilis wrote:You're the one determined to get the jabs in against these figures from how I see it, and yes, cost is always the biggest factor for me, and that is my opinion. I just hate to see opinions being stated as fact. If it wasn't done deliberately or in an adversarial manner I apologize, but all you did was to state opinion as fact and that always irritates me to no end.

They're obviously opinions - what else can they be? I find it interesting how quickly some of you jump in to defend these models from criticism precisely because they're not GW products. Had this been a prototype GW model, I suspect you'd have been in there slagging it off with everyone else.

It's a fair point that, despite a few rumours, there is no sign of any plastic Guard in greatcoats. However, I can't see what's 'adverserial' about pointing out the shortcomings of this model by comparing it to what GW produce.

Tailgunner wrote:They're obviously opinions - what else can they be? I find it interesting how quickly some of you jump in to defend these models from criticism precisely because they're not GW products. Had this been a prototype GW model, I suspect you'd have been in there slagging it off with everyone else.

It's a fair point that, despite a few rumours, there is no sign of any plastic Guard in greatcoats. However, I can't see what's 'adverserial' about pointing out the shortcomings of this model by comparing it to what GW produce.

That, fairly obviously, is because if it were a GW miniature, it would cost 8times the price and be being produced by a large multinational company with huge resouces, not a small cottage industry producer. Your not comparing like for like.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:That, fairly obviously, is because if it were a GW miniature, it would cost 8times the price and be being produced by a large multinational company with huge resouces, not a small cottage industry producer. Your not comparing like for like.

That's a different point - I was responding to some needlessly antagonistic remarks that had nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

To answer your point, as I understand it, you're saying that you'll accept something which is (I would argue) aesthetically inferior because it's cheaper. Fair enough, but isn't that the same as saying (as I did earlier) that you get what you pay for? And why does the disparity in resources mean there can't be a comparison? If you look beyond the narrow world of sci-fi wargaming, there are small model kit producers who produce kits that are the equal of (if not better than) anything by the big producers. By producing plastic figures, implicitly intended for WH40k, they've invited comparison. Don't tell me it's unfair to make the comparison - especially when I acknowledged the price difference. Or should I have just said 'this model is gak'? That seems to be perfectly acceptable when GW products are involved.

I think everyone should take into account this figure is a prototype, it has not been prepared for advertising, and it is displayed on screen about 3 times 'life size'.

Also it is a forerunner for a range of figures, so there will be variation and conversion possibilities.

If you don't like the styling of the backpack and helmet that's absolutely fine, I don't myself if truth be told, and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

People shouldn't start sniping at each other's opinions, it's off topic and liable to get nasty.

Injection molded plastic is never going to look as good as resin because you need to put draft into the parts in order to pull them from the metal mold.

Most objects in real life are not drafted towards two parallel planes, so detail which has been adapted to be injection molded will not look as realistic as in a resin mold where no draft is required and undercut is allowed. Comparing the two for anything other than scale is pretty unfair.


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@ tailgunner: the thing people are having a problem with in your comments is you are comparing these figures to figures that don't exist, and making an assertion they will be superior with no evidence.

1. Injection moulded plastics can look pretty good (SH marines...).

2. Problems with these greatcoat guard are mainly due to somewhat crappy design (and small scale - even smaller than midget-FW).

--

If the final minis will have a nicer coat (no skirt please) and are bigger (Cadian sized) + come in 4-5 different poses I will probably buy lots.

Just add MaxMini heads (http://www.maxmini.eu/store/images/falleg.jpg) and you'll have decent traitor guard.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:As a cheap basis for converting, using GW bits or Pig Iron or whatever, to create a greatcoat horde army for 40k, these figures will be an excellent choice due principally to the very comfortable price. Those seeking a considerably higher detail and no conversion need will have to pay more and buy the forgeworld models.

& then find out that they have to use a s**t load of GS to fill gaps & 'casting issues'. LOL

That being said I am an FW addict & can use GS to some extent so it doesn't bother me so much.

What was my point again??
Oh yes.
I got some of their zombies - not great quality but v cheap & a pulp fiction alternative to GW fantasy ones.
I will be being some of these.

Since these are rapid prototyped, they can scale it up or down as needed. However, the smaller scale isn't a bad thing considering that'd mean they will be fluff accurate compared to SM on the table.

These will look great en mass on the table, which is what I need.

I don't like the design direction they took on these for the armor, but there was an extremely vocal minority screaming their lungs out for that particular armor. But I can live with it.

I'll be painting them all to look like Killzone 2 Helghast.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Better than clogging the thing with dirt...

Surely the laser would just burn the dirt out, it's not a ballistic weapon after all.

Tailgunner wrote:Had this been a prototype GW model, I suspect you'd have been in there slagging it off with everyone else.

Not at all, as a rule GW makes wonderful models with a few notable exceptions, they are however grossly overpriced. That's the only consistent problem with them across the board. I love to see viable alternatives come down the line that allow me, and others like me, to realistically consider another army. If you think GW's product is worth their price, well I certainly don't agree, but go for it I guess. Just don't get upset when I take offense at you criticizing viable gaming alternatives at a mere fraction of the price. Same as you get upset when I criticize GW's overpriced product.

Back to the topic at hand however, can't wait to see the final product and if it's worth considering. Shows a lot of promise so far and I look forward to more updates.

Is it too late to suggest changing the design?

I dont like how the amor and backpack looks...

I'm okay with the backpack, the only problem is that the front armor and backpack don't look like they belong together.

Quite literally, it looks like it was designed by a committee, which never works, and it was practically designed by a committee.

As much as WGF wants to promote it's whole liberty league thing, they need to let their designers take a stand.

And don't bother trying to suggest a change, their forums are pretty hostile, you're responses will actually get voted out.

I don't like the looks of this model. I love "greatcoat" Guard models hell i have a full DKoK army. But the pose and detail of the model is greatly lacking.

Money isn't an issue for me so i'll stick with Resin DKoK.

Yeah, I don't think you're the target audience, Red_lives. It's a replacement good, which if we remember 1st year econ is basically a type of product where demand goes up the more the price for another product does. The more GW minis are, the better cheaper guys seem.

That said, for the big chunk of hobbyists the limiting factor isn't money, it's time. Why spend the same time painting a mediocre mini when for a few bucks more you could have a much better mini at the end.

Now, I'm eager to see more, because I have some ideas in mind, but as I'm sitting looking at four basecoated russes, plus four extra FW turrets, I'm not exactly running low on projects.

Just to remind everyone the sculpter and company are listening...

But not here.

Go here if you really have thoughts on the design.

http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/forum/category/science-fiction-submissions/page1/

They're listening, but not to us. There's a really loud group that's currently dominating the talk in that forum, constantly voting down anything that they don't like, leaving us with, well, this.

About the only thing they listened to me was to make sure the goggles and mask fit better on the model.

So if we want a change, we need to bomb the WGF forum?

No thanks.

So, if you want to discuss with a company their product and how you'd like it to look, you're not willing to actually go to their forum and do so?

I mean, I won't either, but It's still funny.

Vertrucio wrote:They're listening, but not to us. There's a really loud group that's currently dominating the talk in that forum, constantly voting down anything that they don't like, leaving us with, well, this.

Well, there is a reason no other company in the industry does what WGF has done. Because it's a stupid idea.

JohnHwangDD wrote:So if we want a change, we need to bomb the WGF forum?

No thanks.

I believe the word is 'post' not 'bomb'.

Polonius wrote:So, if you want to discuss with a company their product and how you'd like it to look, you're not willing to actually go to their forum and do so?

I mean, I won't either, but It's still funny.

That's way too much work. Far better to complain over here.

Besides, I already have plenty enough Guard, and they're not Greatcoat Guard.

/hands out fans and wigs.

Positions ladies!

On a scale of 1 to 10"
DKOK = 9.5
GW Cadians = 8
WGF guard = 6.5

I they changed the guns and made them a little bigger, and changed the backpack to something more relaistic looking, my opinion may go up.
It would be interesting to see some more models with different poses though.

GG

Vertrucio wrote:They're listening, but not to us. There's a really loud group that's currently dominating the talk in that forum, constantly voting down anything that they don't like, leaving us with, well, this.

About the only thing they listened to me was to make sure the goggles and mask fit better on the model.

Dakkites are complaining that a forum is hostile?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the by if we're comparing let's compare plastic to plastic. Granted the Cats are 10 years old but that's GW's choice not to redo them.







Note the GW guns that are taller than the figures, the sparse detail on the armor and flack vests, the oversized heads...

The heads are normal - the problem is the helmet. To wit:

Actually the Cat heads are way oversized, GW compresses the legs and torso to make the heads and guns more prominent.

Wait, the new GW Cadians come with Melta Guns now? Edit: Command Squad upgrades... Dang.

On topic: The fact that these WGF miniatures are smaller than Forgeworld is good: they make Marines look big.

Out of this whole discusion, I've only seen two posts tht even came close to getting my attention. The one with the jpeg of the japanese girl with the nice rack and the one mentioning that the WGF forums are hostile. That's an understatement. I made a comment about how my enthusiasm was dying off because there had been little or no official word from WGF on these models and that maybe they might want to post something. I got blasted with hostility from their resident grognard adamsouza and I decided that I have no desire for these models now. Seeing the prototype shows me that I'd rather purchase the FW DKOK or convert some GCG from brettonian plastics, lasguns, and either PI or WWP heads.

I like 'em. I've thought about using the British line for IG and mixing arms/weapons. They're about the same size when mixing with Cadians - not so much with Jungle boys.

But we could stop talking about "true scale marines" if the IG were a bit smaller; which I think these will do a fine job.

I don't like the armor, or the gun, or the shoulder pads, or the head, or the backpack. Almost nothing I suggested (and I posted on that thread for about a month trying to get my ideas implemented) was used. I am very disappointed with the models. I find them rather ugly. I won't be buying any.

So at the end of the day the only thing that matters is if I like the mini and can afford what I like. DKoK are nice, but I don't really like them and they are way to expensive considering that I haven't yet won the lottery and I am not willing to quit eating or smoking for minis at this point in my life and I also like the job I have and do not wish to have a second one either.

The Cadians are ok minis as well. They have their faults though...IMO. The Catachans have many more faults...IMO. I still however use both in my army. I also have some Vostroyans as well. AWESOMESAUCE...again IMO. These are no exception. I like them. I also think they have some issues, but if at the end of the day I can combine them with GW stuff to get tourney legal minis then I will use them because I do like elements and I think that they will add some flavor to my army that is not represented at this time.

I will agree that the forum on the WGF site is full of people that bully you into thinking that your opinion doesn't matter. This is the same on all internet forums and not just gaming. When you are a faceless name it is much easier to be a hard nosed pain in the rump and bully people to your hearts content. This is the reason I don't post often on any forum. I don't like politics. I don't like people who are jerks. And I really hate incessant whining. All of which are prevalent on all forums no matter how hard the Admin try to stop it.

So at the end of this very long day I will ignore the vast majority of you in favor of deciding for myself. If you choose to blather on and bad mouth companies for their efforts then go for it. At least they are actually doing something useful to attempt to enrich someone elses lives.

If I offended you with what I typed then oh well. Maybe you should consider who you have offended with your posts.

Just a point about the WGF forum: it seems that there's a considerable number of people here that don't relish having their opinions shouted down in the WGF forums. Why don't you lot band together, head to the WGF and let them know that together you're too many to be shouted down?

cadbren wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Better than clogging the thing with dirt...

Surely the laser would just burn the dirt out, it's not a ballistic weapon after all.

Laser weapons have been described of having a huge kenetic impact when they hit a solid object. This causes a small explosion and generates a lot of heat.

Those things you don't want inside your weapon barrel.

The backpack reminds me of a parachute.

The image of DKoK troopers dropping into battle while imitating Marilyn Monroe now dances freely in my mind.

Agamemnon2 wrote:
Well, there is a reason no other company in the industry does what WGF has done. Because it's a stupid idea.

Why is it "stupid' to try to give customers what they want? To give them a voice in the production process? I see all sorts of complaint-oriented posts here on Dakka how GW "should" do this and "IF they had done that" ...

I think it's a novel approach to an aspect of their offerings and I'm all for it if it nets me what I would like. Granted, as with anything that counts votes to proceed, the most vocal campaigners typically win. If I don't take the time to have my voice or ideas heard, than I can't really complain when a model comes out that's not to my liking, can I? Well, I can .. but why bother?

Myrthe wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:
Well, there is a reason no other company in the industry does what WGF has done. Because it's a stupid idea.

Why is it "stupid' to try to give customers what they want? To give them a voice in the production process? I see all sorts of complaint-oriented posts here on Dakka how GW "should" do this and "IF they had done that" ...

I think it's a novel approach to an aspect of their offerings and I'm all for it if it nets me what I would like. Granted, as with anything that counts votes to proceed, the most vocal campaigners typically win. If I don't take the time to have my voice or ideas heard, than I can't really complain when a model comes out that's not to my liking, can I? Well, I can .. but why bother?

I misspoke a bit. The idea is not bad in itself, it's just one of those things that's far better on paper. In real life, it's hamstrung by people having incompatible assumptions, unfeasible ideas, unreasonable expectations, etc. Like these Space Nazi chaps trying to be IG proxies and pulp sci-fi Space Nazis at the same time, and all at prices lower than GW and quality higher than them.

I've checked those forums and people like adamsouza prove that by screaming really loud at everybody not agreeing you can have things your way. So much for that idea then.

edit.

Democratic choice making about minis I mean.

Quite so, quite so. Democracy only works in a situation like this if forums have much more draconian structures to make sure the loud can't bully the timid into silence.

We might as well ask for world peace instead of the impossible.

Would that world peace be admniistered by loudest voice, or by committee?

JohnHwangDD wrote:Would that world peace be admniistered by loudest voice, or by committee?

Loudest voice obviously (Provided it's mine, if not start the revolution)

BrookM wrote:We might as well ask for world peace instead of the impossible.

I'm actually against world peace, I think as a species we need conflict to survive and grow; we need the challenges it brings and the danger.

cadbren wrote:

BrookM wrote:We might as well ask for world peace instead of the impossible.

I'm actually against world peace, I think as a species we need conflict to survive and grow; we need the challenges it brings and the danger.

I agree with this point. Back on topic though, I will likely buy these models, greenstuff slightly more German looking gasmasks on them and just add backpacks. Hell, I was just planning on using Cadian arms anyhow. Problem is with the WGF forums are that you have too many people like Adamsouza who drown the forums in their ideas. I posted a couple of pieces of hand drawn concept art and a couple of my ideas made it this far so, I'll take my small victory and just run with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, sorry for the double post, but the reason the greatcoat looks like a skirt is due to the fact that greatcoats rarely have buttons that go past the waste as this would hinder leg movement. That is all.

Shattered Soul wrote: Also, sorry for the double post, but the reason the greatcoat looks like a skirt is due to the fact that greatcoats rarely have buttons that go past the waste as this would hinder leg movement. That is all.

My Outback Duster begs to differ - it buttons to at least mid-thigh, and only unbutton to the waist for riding use (in which case, you use the thigh straps)...

And my trenchcoat buttons similarly.

I think it's for wind and such, so the material doesn't get blown around as much.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Shattered Soul wrote: Also, sorry for the double post, but the reason the greatcoat looks like a skirt is due to the fact that greatcoats rarely have buttons that go past the waste as this would hinder leg movement. That is all.

My Outback Duster begs to differ - it buttons to at least mid-thigh, and only unbutton to the waist for riding use (in which case, you use the thigh straps)...

And my trenchcoat buttons similarly.

I think it's for wind and such, so the material doesn't get blown around as much.

Depends on the materials, most wool trenchcoats don't button too far past the waist if at all though due to the fact they are meant for warmth in the trenches, not for protecting against high wind gusts.

Agamemnon2 wrote:Quite so, quite so. Democracy only works in a situation like this if forums have much more draconian structures to make sure the loud can't bully the timid into silence.

"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner."

Or in this case, interwebz screamers that cannot afford FW...

I think people are a bit too cynical. WGF is doing this to make money which means all forum feedback and debates are ultimately there to be market reseach on what will be popular.

Sure in a forum I can should people down and say our models must have X or Y but surely a for-profit company about to stake a lot of money in a project can tell the difference between a general concencus and one loud mouth's random idea.

This prtotype looks pretty lame, terrible looking, if you people think this looks good then something must be wrong with you not to see. The finished celts by Wargames Factory look the same quality as this fig. Dont expect these figs to look any good. I am very disapointed. Of course WGF thinks low quality for a cheap price with alot of them. WHY NOT GOOD QUALITY FOR A CHEAP PRICE WITH ALOT????

Warboss Narznok wrote:This prtotype looks pretty lame, terrible looking, if you people think this looks good then something must be wrong with you not to see. The finished celts by Wargames Factory look the same quality as this fig. Dont expect these figs to look any good. I am very disapointed. Of course WGF thinks low quality for a cheap price with alot of them. WHY NOT GOOD QUALITY FOR A CHEAP PRICE WITH ALOT????

welcome to Dakka...

Now lay off the caffeine, the quality of the mini is considerably higher than the quality of your sentences.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Warboss Narznok wrote:This prtotype looks pretty lame, terrible looking, if you people think this looks good then something must be wrong with you not to see. The finished celts by Wargames Factory look the same quality as this fig. Dont expect these figs to look any good. I am very disapointed. Of course WGF thinks low quality for a cheap price with alot of them. WHY NOT GOOD QUALITY FOR A CHEAP PRICE WITH ALOT????

welcome to Dakka...

Now lay off the caffeine, the quality of the mini is considerably higher than the quality of your sentences.

Debatable.

For real, I can't imagine why anyone would be excited to have mini's that look like these, even if they are cheap. They just don't look good, and even at a couple dollars a sprue, I'd rather stick with GW cadians with head swaps, or even stock. 20% off at select retailers is acceptable and much better looking than these bargain basement sculpts.

Warboss Narznok wrote:This prtotype looks pretty lame, terrible looking, if you people think this looks good then something must be wrong with you not to see. The finished celts by Wargames Factory look the same quality as this fig. Dont expect these figs to look any good. I am very disapointed. Of course WGF thinks low quality for a cheap price with alot of them. WHY NOT GOOD QUALITY FOR A CHEAP PRICE WITH ALOT????

Why not? Why not cheap resin figs from Forge World? Why not competitive armylists for every army at the same time? Why not free candy and unlimited rice pudding?

That's going to be my campaign if I ever run for President..."Why not?"

Warboss Narznok wrote:This prtotype looks pretty lame, terrible looking, if you people think this looks good then something must be wrong with you not to see. The finished celts by Wargames Factory look the same quality as this fig. Dont expect these figs to look any good. I am very disapointed. Of course WGF thinks low quality for a cheap price with alot of them. WHY NOT GOOD QUALITY FOR A CHEAP PRICE WITH ALOT????

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Warboss Narznok wrote:This prtotype looks pretty lame, terrible looking, if you people think this looks good then something must be wrong with you not to see. The finished celts by Wargames Factory look the same quality as this fig. Dont expect these figs to look any good. I am very disapointed. Of course WGF thinks low quality for a cheap price with alot of them. WHY NOT GOOD QUALITY FOR A CHEAP PRICE WITH ALOT????

Why not? Why not cheap resin figs from Forge World? Why not competitive armylists for every army at the same time? Why not free candy and unlimited rice pudding?

Take a look at Victrix.
victrixlimited.co.uk

they make 28mm hard plastic multi posed Napoleonics. 52-60 in a box. The quality is superb and the cost is 50 cents, 50 CENTS for a high quality historical miniature!

Sure WF will be cheap but I don't think those sci fi guys are good. I guess people are easily impressed.

Just wait for another company to put out a better sci fi human soldier in plastic at better prices than GW.

So... instead of sarcasm, just realize that these are OK and could be better, instead of being blown away.

Otto
noizehive.blogspot.com

My response to these have been called many things so far, but surely nobody has called it "being blown away".

Mh...I expected more honestly. But the grey drybrush to show the details better isn't helping the model at all.

I'm still looking forward how they turn out. for the price, I expect a slight increase in quality, but don't expect FW or GW quality.

Greets
Schepp himself

Shattered Soul wrote:

cadbren wrote:

BrookM wrote:We might as well ask for world peace instead of the impossible.

I'm actually against world peace, I think as a species we need conflict to survive and grow; we need the challenges it brings and the danger.

I agree with this point. Back on topic though, I will likely buy these models, greenstuff slightly more German looking gasmasks on them and just add backpacks. Hell, I was just planning on using Cadian arms anyhow. Problem is with the WGF forums are that you have too many people like Adamsouza who drown the forums in their ideas. I posted a couple of pieces of hand drawn concept art and a couple of my ideas made it this far so, I'll take my small victory and just run with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, sorry for the double post, but the reason the greatcoat looks like a skirt is due to the fact that greatcoats rarely have buttons that go past the waste as this would hinder leg movement. That is all.

If you're going to put that much work in why not make your own master figure using copyright free parts from Hasslefree and mould as many as you like. You could even sell them.

Hopefully they'll look better once finished and have some other poses; at the moment they don't look much different from plastic army men.

looking good

Well, two months later and nothing's happened and they've even put up the minimum number of orders ..again..to 3000! Are they going to make these things ever or is it just a ruse to get people to look at the rest of their offerings?

It costs a lot to make a mould for plastics so they need to know they can cover that investment.

I get the feeling WF is two people (the PR guy and the sculptor) working in their (mom's?) basements. They don't have casting equipment of their own, they just design sprues and have them cast by another company.

They probably have to pay for hundreds (or thousands) of casts in advance, so they can't afford more than one new sprue every few months. They didn't expect the L&UL project to take off so fast, and they can't keep up either in sculpting time or financially.

The basic economics are that you can get a good metal spincasting setup installed in your garage for between $5,000 and $10,000.

It costs about the same just for the mould for a polystyrene sprue frame.

Metal figures can be set up and casted almost individually. In fact, companies like Baccus keep a small stock in hand and cast up any big orders as they come in.

The prep time for a polystyrene moulding machine means it is not worth switching on unless you are going to produce hundreds of copies.

lord_blackfang wrote:I get the feeling WF is two people (the PR guy and the sculptor) working in their (mom's?) basements. They don't have casting equipment of their own, they just design sprues and have them cast by another company.

They probably have to pay for hundreds (or thousands) of casts in advance, so they can't afford more than one new sprue every few months. They didn't expect the L&UL project to take off so fast, and they can't keep up either in sculpting time or financially.

First off you're wrong, they do own casting equipment and they'be put a new plastic set each month for a year.

Second off you're wrong about them having 2 people.

They have 5.

And they've been very upfront on their boards about what they can do, what they can't and where things stand. They're working slowly on the Great Coats since it's a new field for them and since Sci-Fi unlike historicals can look like anything. The only guide is what looks cool which is very subjective.

The whole Liberty and Union League has been much more successful than they expected and overwhelmed their abilities so they are re-examining it. And they're asking for feedback from customers on how to make it better.

Now natually I want everything and I want it now but I'm not going to go into full on nerd rage when I can't. Heck I admire these guys for living the dream, I wish I had my own mini company so I could churn out robed cultists and riot cops and have people badmouth me on the intarwebs.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:...and have people badmouth me on the intarwebs.

One step at a time Kid K.

Warboss Narznok wrote:This prtotype looks pretty lame, terrible looking, if you people think this looks good then something must be wrong with you not to see. The finished celts by Wargames Factory look the same quality as this fig. Dont expect these figs to look any good. I am very disapointed. Of course WGF thinks low quality for a cheap price with alot of them. WHY NOT GOOD QUALITY FOR A CHEAP PRICE WITH ALOT????

Successful troll is successful! You must be a very skilled writer, grammar smith, sculptor, and war gaming tactician. I believe you may be a genius and there is an outside chance you may be more intelligent than Einstein.

I personally like these models. They are not the best in the world, but at the price, they look nothing like GW and produce a great opposition, traitor guard, or homebrew planet. I say for what they are they are great! I will speak with my wallet and buy some.