Just a quick question on what exatly an Initiative test is? I assume leadership test or is this incorrect and it should be rolling a dice vs th models Initiative? The ability in question is the hit and run special ability Khan gives saying take an Initiative test and if passed can flee up to 3d6.
Just a quick question on what exatly an Initiative test is? I assume leadership test or is this incorrect and it should be rolling a dice vs th models Initiative? The ability in question is the hit and run special ability Khan gives saying take an Initiative test and if passed can flee up to 3d6.
"6" always fails. So watch out for that dam beam the new Space wolves rune preist can cast. If it hits special charachters, deamon princes, even hive tyrants, they all are removed with a "6". Even the Keeper of Secrets, I 10.
Funny that, from some who've played games already the power is one that looks OMG BROKEN on paper but most report it is really situational at best and crappy. Carnifex sniper is all it's good at but if you face upgraded Carnifi (I always give mine I2) it only removes the carnifex on a 4 or higher.
Just out of curiousity, where are you reading ths stuff about the SW at? I have a buddy who was interested (not sure how much though), and I was curious as to what I was looking at facing...
s2ua7 wrote:Just out of curiousity, where are you reading ths stuff about the SW at? I have a buddy who was interested (not sure how much though), and I was curious as to what I was looking at facing...
currently most GW stores have a print out in a ring binder (you may be lucky and have an actual copy in your store) ... so sorry no idea yet what it looks like.
ManwithIronHands wrote:Still it can remove a reaver or even emporer titan without too much fuss.
Except that it cannot affect vehicles
It can't? I seem to remember the rules saying "ANY models touched by the line must pass an initiative test or be removed from play." So vehicles with an initiative value can still be in trouble, if I'm not mistaken.
ManwithIronHands wrote:Still it can remove a reaver or even emporer titan without too much fuss.
Except that it cannot affect vehicles
It can't? I seem to remember the rules saying "ANY models touched by the line must pass an initiative test or be removed from play." So vehicles with an initiative value can still be in trouble, if I'm not mistaken.
No, it has a specific list of unit types that are affected. Vehicles are not on the list. Neither is Jump Infantry.
ManwithIronHands wrote:Still it can remove a reaver or even emporer titan without too much fuss.
Except that it cannot affect vehicles
It can't? I seem to remember the rules saying "ANY models touched by the line must pass an initiative test or be removed from play." So vehicles with an initiative value can still be in trouble, if I'm not mistaken.
No, it has a specific list of unit types that are affected. Vehicles are not on the list. Neither is Jump Infantry.
Ok, so its not out yet and just a preview then... I wish I had a GW where I lived but the closest one is over 100 miles away... I guess I'm just not dedicated enough to do that... lol...
s2ua7 wrote:Ok, so its not out yet and just a preview then... I wish I had a GW where I lived but the closest one is over 100 miles away... I guess I'm just not dedicated enough to do that... lol...
My non-GWLGS got a copy, but there aren't any GWs in the Portland Metro Area either.
Heres a question to everyone without making a new topic, is the lack of jump infantry intended? Are they assumed not to be in that line because theyre in the air? Is there a fluff reason to support this?
Im curious because I <3 raptors and Id love to say "Sorry, but it doesnt affect them" without being a douche.
Well, without sitting down and having a discussion with Phil Kelley, I don't think we can know whether it was "intended" or not. But the rule is the rule and it doesn't effect jump infantry.
Regarding the list of things affected by Jaws of the World Wolf, I couldn't help but notice that while Jump Infantry are not listed, it does list bikes without giving an exception to jetbikes.
Am I correct in believing that jetbikes are a subset of bikes and so would still be affected by the ability in it's current form?
Guessing from the name it is a pit of shades thing - the ground opens up and tries to eat you, so you jump out the way. If you're already in the air, or a big vehicle, you're not going to be bothered...
Jet Pack IS a Subclass of Jump Infantry as it is Jump Infantry (Jet pack) but Jetbikes are certainly a separate unit type.
And I just realised, all these people saying "OMFG Tau are so screwed baaaaaaaaaaaaaw", not a single Tau model worth jawing can be affected! Nor can MC's with the Jump Infantry type. SO QUIT YOUR WHINING!
This is something great for the Tau ... unless it hits broadsides who are regular infantry.
Now adding wings to a Monstrous Creature - such as a Demon Prince - makes that unit move like jump infantry but it is still a monstrous creature. So would this rule affect them or not? I haven't seen the rule yet but it got me to thinking about different cases. I'd have to double check the Tyranid codex to see if it works the same way as a demon prince when adding wings.
rogueeyes wrote:This is something great for the Tau ... unless it hits broadsides who are regular infantry.
Now adding wings to a Monstrous Creature - such as a Demon Prince - makes that unit move like jump infantry but it is still a monstrous creature. So would this rule affect them or not? I haven't seen the rule yet but it got me to thinking about different cases. I'd have to double check the Tyranid codex to see if it works the same way as a demon prince when adding wings.
right board sides what range 48?60? can't remember but ether way much great then 24". You know what you're up against so blast that wolf to hell before he gets in range.
Jet Pack IS a Subclass of Jump Infantry as it is Jump Infantry (Jet pack) but Jetbikes are certainly a separate unit type.
And I just realised, all these people saying "OMFG Tau are so screwed baaaaaaaaaaaaaw", not a single Tau model worth jawing can be affected! Nor can MC's with the Jump Infantry type. SO QUIT YOUR WHINING!
Yeah I re-examined Jetbikes and I have changed my opinion, I had assumed they were a subclass based purely on the fact they are included in a box on the Bikes page of the rulebook, but really, they are an entirely seperate unit type that happens to use the bike rules as the basis for their own set of rules and then further modify them. Whereas the Jet Packs rules specifically say "Some Jump Infantry are equipped with a special type of jump pack, referred to as a jet pack."
Regarding Tau: If you use broadsides it poses a significant threat to them, of course your broadsides have a significant range meaning they aren't too close to the frontlines generally, but they would be taken out as easy as a Fex by the ability, as would Firewarriors and Pathfinders. If you were crazy enough to use Aun'Va he is I1 infantry. Really Tau don't get it that bad,
What I found amusing is the first time I heard about the ability my immediate reaction was "so they are setting Space Wolves up to be defeated by Dark Eldar? Talk about power creep"
rogueeyes wrote:This is something great for the Tau ... unless it hits broadsides who are regular infantry.
Now adding wings to a Monstrous Creature - such as a Demon Prince - makes that unit move like jump infantry but it is still a monstrous creature. So would this rule affect them or not? I haven't seen the rule yet but it got me to thinking about different cases. I'd have to double check the Tyranid codex to see if it works the same way as a demon prince when adding wings.
Just because it is an MC, it is still Jump Infantry. Or you could say that even though it is Jump Infantry it is still an MC and then the world Implodes
Since it's being touted as sniper capable, driven by initiative etc, I'm thinking this will be the nastiest anti-ork power, taking the PK out of a 30 strong unit of boyz, killing Warbosses to reduced leadership or taking down bigmeks with KFF or SAGs.
Aye, it is definitely better suited for that PK nob sniping job than Sergeant Telion or even a Vindicare Assassin. This is strong stuff and I assume this will make players go the mech way even more than before when having SW opponents.
rogueeyes wrote:This is something great for the Tau ... unless it hits broadsides who are regular infantry.
Now adding wings to a Monstrous Creature - such as a Demon Prince - makes that unit move like jump infantry but it is still a monstrous creature. So would this rule affect them or not? I haven't seen the rule yet but it got me to thinking about different cases. I'd have to double check the Tyranid codex to see if it works the same way as a demon prince when adding wings.
Just because it is an MC, it is still Jump Infantry. Or you could say that even though it is Jump Infantry it is still an MC and then the world Implodes
rogueeyes wrote:This is something great for the Tau ... unless it hits broadsides who are regular infantry.
Now adding wings to a Monstrous Creature - such as a Demon Prince - makes that unit move like jump infantry but it is still a monstrous creature. So would this rule affect them or not? I haven't seen the rule yet but it got me to thinking about different cases. I'd have to double check the Tyranid codex to see if it works the same way as a demon prince when adding wings.
Just because it is an MC, it is still Jump Infantry. Or you could say that even though it is Jump Infantry it is still an MC and then the world Implodes
I think it's not a problem with Daemon Princes since they don't actually become Jump Infantry. With regards to a Winged Hive Tyrant, I think the only safe assumption (or atleast the way most people play) which I cannot find any rules contrary to is that a model can belong to two unit types at once, and the Flying Hive Tyrant does this by being both an MC and Jump Infantry.
If you do not allow the Hive Tyrant to belong to both groups it reverts from an MC to just plain old Jump Infantry, meaning it loses all it's MC bonuses (I have never heard of anyone playing this way).
Given that it is simultaneously BOTH unit types, I think the ability would affect it, because the ability says it affects Monstrous Creatures, which the Hive Tyrant is. If the ability specifically said it did not work on Jump Infantry then the conflict would cause problems, but Jump Infantry are merely omitted from the list, there is nothing preventing it from working on Jump Infantry as long as they satisfy one of the other options by having dual unit types.
kirsanth wrote:Hive Tyrants are not IC, and (Tyranid) wings makes the unit be treated as Jump Infantry in all respects.
Are you rejecting the idea that they are both MCs and Jump Infantry, or did you get distracted by the typo and not consider the overall idea behind the post, because I'm interested to know if other people agree with my interpretation.
kirsanth wrote:They are both - it never says that JI replaces their current unit type.
Also, that would cause more issues than it solves.
Yeah, Wings do not suddenly mean it stops being an MC, it just becomes Jump Infantry AND an MC. Bear in mind I do not think (I could be mistaken for some of the older codexes)any unit has just an MC type, they are MC and Infantry, MC and Jump Infantry, MC and Beast etc etc.
They are also never Jump Infantry, so would definitely be affected. If you are MC AND Jump Infantry I would say you are affected by the power, for the reasonings given.
kirsanth wrote:They are both - it never says that JI replaces their current unit type.
Also, that would cause more issues than it solves.
Yeah, Wings do not suddenly mean it stops being an MC, it just becomes Jump Infantry AND an MC. Bear in mind I do not think (I could be mistaken for some of the older codexes)any unit has just an MC type, they are MC and Infantry, MC and Jump Infantry, MC and Beast etc etc.
Most MCs are just MCs, very few have options to become another type like the flyrant (actually none other than it that I can think of) and all unit types follow the infantry rules except for when speficied otherwhise, so being defined as both infantry and an MC is pointless.
The Carnifex for example has the monstrous creature special rule the same way Hormagaunts have the Beasts special rule, so the Carnifex is probably just a plain old MC with no other unit types attached.
Drunkspleen wrote:Most MCs are just MCs, very few have options to become another type like the flyrant (actually none other than it that I can think of) and all unit types follow the infantry rules except for when speficied otherwhise, so being defined as both infantry and an MC is pointless.
The Carnifex for example has the monstrous creature special rule the same way Hormagaunts have the Beasts special rule, so the Carnifex is probably just a plain old MC with no other unit types attached.
kirsanth wrote:They are both - it never says that JI replaces their current unit type.
Also, that would cause more issues than it solves.
Yeah, Wings do not suddenly mean it stops being an MC, it just becomes Jump Infantry AND an MC. Bear in mind I do not think (I could be mistaken for some of the older codexes)any unit has just an MC type, they are MC and Infantry, MC and Jump Infantry, MC and Beast etc etc.
Most MCs are just MCs, very few have options to become another type like the flyrant (actually none other than it that I can think of) and all unit types follow the infantry rules except for when speficied otherwhise, so being defined as both infantry and an MC is pointless.
The Carnifex for example has the monstrous creature special rule the same way Hormagaunts have the Beasts special rule, so the Carnifex is probably just a plain old MC with no other unit types attached.
True, but if you are the "FAQ's are the word of The God-Emperor Jervis" camp, the Nid FAQ states
"Q. The Tyranid Codex doesn’t designate unit types for its Codex entries. How does this work?
A. All Tyranids are Infantry, unless otherwise specified in their special rules or Biomorphs."
Ok then, so if jump infantry are not affected, I would suggest the reason for their exclusion is they can avoid this 'hole', if the mcs with wings are allowed to move as jump infantry, they are also not affected.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Ok then, so if jump infantry are not affected, I would suggest the reason for their exclusion is they can avoid this 'hole', if the mcs with wings are allowed to move as jump infantry, they are also not affected.
Seems logical?
Logic and 40k are as miscible as Oil and Water or The UK Governments and Competence. If something is Infantry, but Moves like Jump Infantry, it is still infantry. No two ways about it, they are still affected.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
kirsanth wrote:Then what is "stated otherwise"?
Or better yet, what (in the Tyranid codex) would not be infantry, then?
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Ok then, so if jump infantry are not affected, I would suggest the reason for their exclusion is they can avoid this 'hole', if the mcs with wings are allowed to move as jump infantry, they are also not affected.
Seems logical?
Logic and 40k are as miscible as Oil and Water or The UK Governments and Competence. If something is Infantry, but Moves like Jump Infantry, it is still infantry. No two ways about it, they are still affected.
Well this is moot for me without a copy of the codex and the rule to look at.
So lets consider this, because sure as heck there are two or possibly more ways about this.
Infantry is affected, jump infantry isn't. Why?
My offered answer: The fluff of the 'spell' generates the exemption here, it's some kind of hole in the ground. What grants the jump infantry the exemption is the 'jump' aspect. If that is the reason (seems likely) then the jump aspect, carried over to a MC, would also exempt them from this power.
But this discussion is all quite premature really.
Gargoyles? Regardless, they do not say otherwise, any more than a carnifex does.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and rippers! Yaaay a fun use for rippers!
-cough- Gargoyles are not beasts, they are Winged, so are Jump Infantry.
Secondly: Page 41: Hormagaunts are Beasts, as detailed [in the] Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook Page 42: Ravaners are Beasts, as detailed [in the] Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook
Rippers are Swarms, which is not a Unit Type, just a Special Rule.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Well this is moot for me without a copy of the codex and the rule to look at.
kirsanth! WHERE ARE YOU!
So lets consider this, because sure as heck there are two or possibly more ways about this.
Infantry is affected, jump infantry isn't. Why?
My offered answer: The fluff of the 'spell' generates the exemption here, it's some kind of hole in the ground. What grants the jump infantry the exemption is the 'jump' aspect. If that is the reason (seems likely) then the jump aspect, carried over to a MC, would also exempt them from this power.
I am afraid that that is not correct. They are not affected because Jump Infantry are not Infantry, the same way that a Jetbike is not a Bike. (Jetbikes can go into upper levels of Ruins, Bikes may not for example)
But this discussion is all quite premature really.
I agree, but if the exact RaW is what has been reported here, it does lend itself to not affect Jump Infantry but will hit DP with Wings as (Chaos) Wings do not Make them Jump Infantry.
Gwar! wrote:-cough- Gargoyles are not beasts, they are Winged, so are Jump Infantry.
Sure, but are they infantry also, as you said the Carnifex was Infantry?
No, I said the FAQ (OMFG AN FAQ!) states that "All Tyranids are Infantry, unless otherwise specified in their special rules or Biomorphs." Winged Biomorph (Gargoyles) = Jump Infantry in every way.
Gwar! wrote:-cough- Gargoyles are not beasts, they are Winged, so are Jump Infantry.
Sure, but are they infantry also, as you said the Carnifex was Infantry?
No, I said the FAQ (OMFG AN FAQ!) states that "All Tyranids are Infantry, unless otherwise specified in their special rules or Biomorphs." Winged Biomorph (Gargoyles) = Jump Infantry in every way.
Then with the previous bit about the Hive Tyrant, can you see why I asked?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Going to (try and) stop this tangent. . . apologies.
I will either make a thread or make the spam into PMs.
Gwar! wrote:-cough- Gargoyles are not beasts, they are Winged, so are Jump Infantry.
Sure, but are they infantry also, as you said the Carnifex was Infantry?
No, I said the FAQ (OMFG AN FAQ!) states that "All Tyranids are Infantry, unless otherwise specified in their special rules or Biomorphs." Winged Biomorph (Gargoyles) = Jump Infantry in every way.
Then with the previous bit about the Hive Tyrant, can you see why I asked?
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Well this is moot for me without a copy of the codex and the rule to look at.
Gwar! wrote:kirsanth! WHERE ARE YOU!
It is moot. . .
That is why the debate continues.
Once we have the actual rules, it should not be moot, as it should (hopefully!!) be spelled out.
I just get upset when people use the word to contradict itself.
Not that I was, if an issue is rendered moot, it's basically conjecture and supposition which is all this debate is for me until I have access to the document. You seem to be suggesting I misused that word? It does not suggest that discussion is closed merely that it's just talk, from my angle, until I can read it for myself, hence me bowing out.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Not that I was, if an issue is rendered moot, it's basically conjecture and supposition which is all this debate is for me until I have access to the document. You seem to be suggesting I misused that word? It does not suggest that discussion is closed merely that it's just talk, from my angle, until I can read it for myself, hence me bowing out.
That's the English meaning. Them colonials have made the word mean something else
• adjective subject to debate or uncertainty: a moot point.
• verb put forward for discussion.
OED or AskOxford
---
For some reason (fear of discourse perhaps, or of thinking maybe) Americans, and others on occasion, use it to mean "Not worth talking about", "reduce or remove the value of", or "of little or no value". (see: American dictionaries, or even dictionary.com)
These can be mutually contradictory. So I have been known to over-react to that word.
Gwar! wrote:-cough- Gargoyles are not beasts, they are Winged, so are Jump Infantry.
Sure, but are they infantry also, as you said the Carnifex was Infantry?
No, I said the FAQ (OMFG AN FAQ!) states that "All Tyranids are Infantry, unless otherwise specified in their special rules or Biomorphs." Winged Biomorph (Gargoyles) = Jump Infantry in every way.
Then with the previous bit about the Hive Tyrant, can you see why I asked?
I am not seeing the issue...
I think I understand. Wing Biomorphs for any Tyranids turn the model into Jump Infantry. Thus gargoyles, winged warriors, and Flyrants are jump infantry. However, Flyrants also happen to be MC as well. The language that is being thrown around on the rumor forums states:
Compiled info on Space Wolves Codex wrote:Jaws of the World Wolf - Psychic shooting attack. Measure out 24" and any MCs, Beasts, Cavalry, Bikes, or Infantry touched by the line must pass an Initiative test or be removed from play. Monstrous creatures may subtract 1 from their dice roll.
While Jump Infantry are excluded from the list, MC are specifically included. Therfore the Hive Tyrant, while being a jump infantry unit, will still be effected by JOTHWW exclusivley due to it also being a MC. Assuming the rumor is worded correctly, what matters is whether the unit is a MC, a bike, a beast, a calvary unit, or an infantry unit.
If you needed a fluff reason, just imagine that the bulky flying MC is too slow in getting off the ground to avoid JOTHWW.
wyomingfox wrote:While Jump Infantry are excluded from the list, MC are specifically included. Therfore the Hive Tyrant, while being a jump infantry unit, will still be effected by JOTHWW exclusivley due to it also being a MC. Assuming the rumor is worded correctly, what matters is whether the unit is a MC, a bike, a beast, a calvary unit, or an infantry unit.
If you needed a fluff reason, just imagine that the bulky flying MC is too slow in getting off the ground to avoid JOTHWW.
Now the problem here is that, as pointed out to me by kirthanth, Wings state the model is Jump Infantry IN ALL RESPECTS. As one such respect is Unit Type, RaW it loses the MC Type. >.>
Gwar! wrote:-cough- Gargoyles are not beasts, they are Winged, so are Jump Infantry.
Sure, but are they infantry also, as you said the Carnifex was Infantry?
No, I said the FAQ (OMFG AN FAQ!) states that "All Tyranids are Infantry, unless otherwise specified in their special rules or Biomorphs." Winged Biomorph (Gargoyles) = Jump Infantry in every way.
Then with the previous bit about the Hive Tyrant, can you see why I asked?
I am not seeing the issue...
Interestingly, the gargoyles do pose a problem because they "are jump infantry in all respects" JUST LIKE A FLYRANT, they are using the exact same biomorph to gain this advantage, they never say in their rules they aren't infantry, so per the FAQ they would be both infantry and jump infantry and would be affected by Jaws of the World Wolf.
This just gets sloppier and sloppier as we go along.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:That's what happens when some donkeycave creates an 'allpowerfulsupamuthaluving deathray earthquake of doom' for a new army.
But do all please continue to discuss this in painstaking detail whilst I quietly thank the maker I don't know anyone with a space wolf army.
I have a space wolf army!
-Cries in the corner-
Yes, but you are far away in a caravan in Ireland and you wouldn't enjoy playing against me anyway, I don't take the game nearly so serious as you do. I do think the space wolves are sounding more and more outrageous each time I hear about them though, giant lolcat riders with two 'supersized' pks, laughing lunatic space wolfs that explodes and remove anything that fails a dice roll, shooty earthquake of doom that removes anything that fails an Initiative test. All kinda a bit flaky. At least the weirdboy evil eye power for orks is fairly random. The SW stuff just sounds poorly thought through.
Gwar! wrote:Wouldn't IN ALL RESPECTS make them lose the Infantry Type?
Then wouldn't IN ALL RESPECTS make a Hive Tyrant lose the Monstrous Creature Type?
This is the problem, that Monstrous Creatures have no special rules saying they can be 2 unit types but other things can't, so the winged biomorph should function the same for both Gargoyles and Hive Tyrants, either they both become two unit types, or they both become Jump Infantry only.
Something that might be relevant to this conversation is the difference between Wings and Jump Packs in Codex: Chaos Space Marines.
Models with Jump Packs are Jump Infantry, while models with Wings only move like Jump Infantry. So a Monstrous Creature with Wings moves 12", takes dangerous terrain tests and so on without the benefit of Move Through Cover, and an Independent Character with Wings can join a unit in a transport.
But an Independent Character with a Jump Pack would be immune to the Jaws of the World Wolf.
Discs of Tzeentch also make an Independent Character Jump Infantry...
willydstyle wrote:So a flyrant loses it's power-weapon attacks and extra d6 against vehicles? Seems a little absurd to me...
Surely, this is what I was alluding to before . . . And unless I am mistaken this has been gone over in other threads.
As a note, this is why I do not use a Flying Tyrant any more (than I pay for Leaping on Tyranids).
The arguement can go either way - from what I have read - but with this new (oh so fun) power it becomes relevant again.
Unless I miss something.
It should be noted that few would deny the Tyrant MC status (even with wings), but now there are reasons not to want it.
So, I just sidestep the issue by not fielding them.
Yaay for more problems with Tyranids! They are just too strong in 5e!
Da Boss wrote:Winged MCs do not become Jump Infantry. They move as jump infantry. Otherwise they'd lose all their MC rules, like ignoring armour saves and rolling an extra dice.
Broadsides are infantry, as are all Tau troops choices. Troops choices aren't worth killing now?
The real problem with Rune Priests is the combination of decent offense with the best defense in the game at such a low cost.
Read the Tyranid codex please. Or the previous posts.
As I wrote, Tyranids with wings do indeed become Jump Infantry - in all respects.
Even MCs.
rogueeyes wrote:This is something great for the Tau ... unless it hits broadsides who are regular infantry.
Now adding wings to a Monstrous Creature - such as a Demon Prince - makes that unit move like jump infantry but it is still a monstrous creature. So would this rule affect them or not? I haven't seen the rule yet but it got me to thinking about different cases. I'd have to double check the Tyranid codex to see if it works the same way as a demon prince when adding wings.
Broadsides would get blasted.
Winged Princes move "Like" jump pack infantry not "count as"
Nurglitch wrote:Gwar wasn't wrong, he was merely "incorrect"!
Exactly. I misread the rule and I did not notice the ramification until kirsanth pointed it out, at which time I conceded that there was indeed an argument for a Winged Hive tyrant to lose the MC unit type.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Since it's being touted as sniper capable, driven by initiative etc, I'm thinking this will be the nastiest anti-ork power, taking the PK out of a 30 strong unit of boyz, killing Warbosses to reduced leadership or taking down bigmeks with KFF or SAGs.
Everyone into the battlewagon!
Take a closer look at the rules for a power fist. Page 42, main rule book, Power fists: ...so attacks with a power fist are always delivered at Initiative 1...
Possession of a Power fist doesn't change your Initiative to 1. Attacking with it makes your attack take place at Initiative 1. As you wouldn't be attacking with a Power fist (i.e. assault) and getting shot by a psychic shooting attack (JOWW) at the same time, said Ork would test at his Initiative, which is whatever it says in his profile.
Marneus Calgar would like a word with anyone saying he can't attack at Initiative 5 with his power sword because he is in possession of a power fist.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Since it's being touted as sniper capable, driven by initiative etc, I'm thinking this will be the nastiest anti-ork power, taking the PK out of a 30 strong unit of boyz, killing Warbosses to reduced leadership or taking down bigmeks with KFF or SAGs.
Everyone into the battlewagon!
Take a closer look at the rules for a power fist. Page 42, main rule book, Power fists: ...so attacks with a power fist are always delivered at Initiative 1...
Possession of a Power fist doesn't change your Initiative to 1. Attacking with it makes your attack take place at Initiative 1. As you wouldn't be attacking with a Power fist (i.e. assault) and getting shot by a psychic shooting attack (JOWW) at the same time, said Ork would test at his Initiative, which is whatever it says in his profile.
Marneus Calgar would like a word with anyone saying he can't attack at Initiative 5 with his power sword because he is in possession of a power fist.
Ah, you've mistaken the pk reference for what I was saying, which was, since the ork army suffers from low Initiative overall and since this power is a drawn line, it can snipe at characters or weapons in an ork unit. You can have that 30strong unit of boys protecting your PK as it walks over the battlefield and it won't protect the nob from getting killed off. Even Ghaz with some MANs, well he's only Initiative 4, worth a shot.
A mobile wolf lib will be sniping at the nice things in ork units and have a good chance of doing significant damage. Everyone's been talking about the nidzilla damage, I also think this is highly unpleasant for ork players to deal with.
Unpleasant, but at least we can mech up to mitigate it. It's much worse for Necrons and especially Nids.
And it's not the power, which I think is strong, but not as good as lash. It's that the guy who gets it also gets to have another one, and the best psychic defense in the game. Rune Priests are just hands down the best psykers in the game.
MeanGreenStompa wrote:Since it's being touted as sniper capable, driven by initiative etc, I'm thinking this will be the nastiest anti-ork power, taking the PK out of a 30 strong unit of boyz, killing Warbosses to reduced leadership or taking down bigmeks with KFF or SAGs.
Everyone into the battlewagon!
Take a closer look at the rules for a power fist. Page 42, main rule book, Power fists: ...so attacks with a power fist are always delivered at Initiative 1...
Possession of a Power fist doesn't change your Initiative to 1. Attacking with it makes your attack take place at Initiative 1. As you wouldn't be attacking with a Power fist (i.e. assault) and getting shot by a psychic shooting attack (JOWW) at the same time, said Ork would test at his Initiative, which is whatever it says in his profile.
Marneus Calgar would like a word with anyone saying he can't attack at Initiative 5 with his power sword because he is in possession of a power fist.
Ah, you've mistaken the pk reference for what I was saying, which was, since the ork army suffers from low Initiative overall and since this power is a drawn line, it can snipe at characters or weapons in an ork unit. You can have that 30strong unit of boys protecting your PK as it walks over the battlefield and it won't protect the nob from getting killed off. Even Ghaz with some MANs, well he's only Initiative 4, worth a shot.
A mobile wolf lib will be sniping at the nice things in ork units and have a good chance of doing significant damage. Everyone's been talking about the nidzilla damage, I also think this is highly unpleasant for ork players to deal with.
Yep, sorry about that. I thought you were referring to how it would be easy to kill the PK Ork because he would test at Init 1, which would be incorrect. Your point is completely valid in regards to being able to make him roll even in the middle of 30 bits of walking cannon fodder that should be insulating him.
That's actually one of the more interesting uses I see for JOWW, besides the territory control bubble it creates, ala Demonlisher Cannons. Keep things you don't want individually out of that 24" reach. I'm going to laugh the first time I see Telion or an Assassin snipe a Priest with JOWW.
kirsanth wrote:Especially SW that take the whole lot out with one psychic test!
Nope The Shadows In The Warp ability.
What about it? Ld 10 is still likely to pass anyway.
And no risk of taking wounds of a 2 or 12.
Yaay for giving bonuses to the enemy!
errr. . .
Heah,
Just be thankfull that they didn't nerf Biovores (again), or make Zoes useless (again), or make gargoyles useless (again), or nerf hormies (again), or nerf rending (a lynchpin for Nids since 3rd) after giving it to almost every major army, or make venom cannon ineffective, or take away easy cover for MC (and then give it to vehicles), or take away combat consolidation, or remove the auto pin penalty to troops in a destroyed transport.
kirsanth wrote:Especially SW that take the whole lot out with one psychic test!
Nope The Shadows In The Warp ability.
What about it? Ld 10 is still likely to pass anyway.
And no risk of taking wounds of a 2 or 12.
Yaay for giving bonuses to the enemy!
errr. . .
Heah,
Just be thankfull that they didn't nerf Biovores (again), or make Zoes useless (again), or make gargoyles useless (again), or nerf hormies (again), or nerf rending (a lynchpin for Nids since 3rd) after giving it to almost every major army, or make venom cannon ineffective, or take away easy cover for MC (and then give it to vehicles), or take away combat consolidation, or remove the auto pin penalty to troops in a destroyed transport.
....oh wait...they did
Well soon you to will have 8-10 special charicter that unlock super mega builds ...
.... How are game workshop going to make special charcter for them? What will they do?...
well at least one is massively clear UBer BroodLord all units in the army can take rending claws for free and genestealers cost less(-normal cost of R.Claws) but your not able to take any MC.
kirsanth wrote:I hope they do not have Tyranid Special Characters.
Yea yea yea.
I know, but I am just saying.
But they will. every one must have at least 8 £20-30 metal figurines the will drastically change how you play the game.... how else will GW make it money?
Nurglitch wrote:
Yes, I'm including Zoanthropes as HQ choices - they're Brain Bugs for Zogwart's sake!
I'm hoping they come up with something that makes Tyranids immune to vehicle mounted weaponry. Really shake everyone up, make a bunch of codexes forcing everyone to mount up, then throw one in that forces them to get out!
Kaaihn wrote:I'm hoping they come up with something that makes Tyranids immune to vehicle mounted weaponry. Really shake everyone up, make a bunch of codexes forcing everyone to mount up, then throw one in that forces them to get out!
Who knows maybe the rippers will get a special where they get bonus damage on vehicles since they can craw inside them. I know
rippers attack as a MC in addition they get +2strenth against open-topped vehicles
"eat the crew" if the ripper swarm manage to penetrate or glance the vehicle they get to roll on this table
Crew shaken =1-2 ah their coming in
Weapon destroy = 3-4 They ate bob!
wreck = 5-6 crew eaten
FoolWhip wrote:I'm just gonna start gluing wings onto all my carnifex's.
I have one that has to get wings. I got it in trade, and someone painted it solid purple. It's getting the horned head with an eye gouged out.
I'll be playing it's theme song from my phone.
FoolWhip wrote:I'm just gonna start gluing wings onto all my carnifex's.
I have one that has to get wings. I got it in trade, and someone painted it solid purple. It's getting the horned head with an eye gouged out. I'll be playing it's theme song from my phone.
I believe you are looking for this one my good sir:
FoolWhip wrote:I'm just gonna start gluing wings onto all my carnifex's.
I have one that has to get wings. I got it in trade, and someone painted it solid purple. It's getting the horned head with an eye gouged out.
I'll be playing it's theme song from my phone.
It's a good thing I'm painting all my swarms purple right at this moment... Now I just need to find a hundred pairs of wings...
?!
