Ok, so they're overpriced, but there is plenty of negativity going around these forums about good old Games Workshop.
I mean, with out them, this site wouldn't even exist!
So what is so bad? Does anyone have a horror story to share?

Well... there's this.

No real 'horror' stories though. GW's never done anything to me personally ('cept for Jervis, he's tried to kill me a number of times - but I doubt that's on company orders, more his personal vendetta against me).

GW stole my dingo.

Boss 'eadbreaka wrote:Ok, so they're overpriced, but there is plenty of negativity going around these forums about good old Games Workshop.
I mean, with out them, this site wouldn't even exist!

And without us, they wouldn't exist

I have no problem with GW except for the inconsistency of their rules (i.e. the style and content of Codexes never seems to last more than two books) and some of their pricing.

I don't think we hate GW or we wouldn't be here, but given the amount of money we send their way, we reserve the right to have a good grump about them every now and again.

I'm with H. on ths one.

...

The Codex, not the Jervis killing thing.

Anung Un Rama wrote:The Codex, not the Jervis killing thing.

Well of course not! He's not after you is he?

Now if you'll excuse me, the sun is going down and I need to get my tin-foil hat finished...

I always thought Jervis was after all of us.I mean,the standard bearer column(rambling)could be considered a weapon of mass mental destruction,if used right the man could destroy us all!

I always hated how he used 2-3 pages to state something that could easily be stated in one sentence such as,make painting a habit.

Oh and H.B.M.C is on the spot with the codex,I wanted to start CSM and then it happened!
Oh and also,no need to finish your foil hat,I made one for you(and your cat) :



(yes that was just an excuse to post that picture).

GW purposely made obliterator weapons very breakable to annoy me.

Boss 'eadbreaka wrote:Ok, so they're overpriced, but there is plenty of negativity going around these forums about good old Games Workshop.
I mean, with out them, this site wouldn't even exist!
So what is so bad? Does anyone have a horror story to share?

This one time, they released CSM 4th edition...

I mean what the f k

They priced me out of their market. Simple as.

Deff Dread red Edition wrote:I always hated how he used 2-3 pages to state something that could easily be stated in one sentence such as,make painting a habit.

It's pretty easy to do that:

"Playing to the fluff is fun!"
"Buying our models is fun!"
"Aren't special characters awesome?"
"Tournament Gamers invented the abortion!"

That's a pretty good summary.

Deff Dread red Edition wrote:(yes that was just an excuse to post that picture).

I think every thread here is an excuse to post that picture.

AND this...
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat200190&prodId=prod1400018

They fired me and then hired me back in a better job the next day.

This happened twice. I wasn't complaining when I got the phone call of apology and the job offer with perks.

Oh how I wish I didn't have to leave.

Fun times were had living in Nottingham.

warpcrafter wrote:AND this...
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat200190&prodId=prod1400018

Send that cr*p to HELL!

And this:

Consistant over pricing, inconsistant and badly tested rules?

Their catalogue site instead of a hobby website. And remember when they additional rulebooks were white dwarf articles so if you bought their magazine you only needed the book for conveience? ?

They censor any negative comments about them, loved they way threads on their old sites forum dissapeared

40k rules since 3rd edition...

Their "sales techniques" they have their staff do. Oh and incidently telling the staff member headed over to you if they try a hard sell to you you will hurt them works (no seriously, it's how we made friends with the staff in Stirling years back!)

When they tried to disallow previous edition models in games in their stores too, that one was a laugh.

The list could go on, but I'm on a timer as off to get one of my kids from nursery in a bit and want to nosey around some more. /cheers for GW grumping

They killed my one true love, dragged her corpse behind a truck for five miles, urinated the body and then set it on fire.

And I also dislike the current generation of store staff, hopeless little gaks they are.

back during 2nd ed gw could do no wrong, they were going from strength to strength and finding their feet in the gaming world with solid core gaming systems, they pandered to the hobbyist with new and exciting idea's and ways to model.
then in 98/99 something changed, they got corporate.
don't get me wrong its like an evolution thing when a company reaches a certain size it either goes corp or it dies, BUT thats when it was really seen as a business for the first time and not a hobby. the change was perceptable to all and those that remember those heady days will tell you it wasn't nice.
prices ramped, and continued to do so, sales were now really actively pushed with targets and whatnot.
its grown from there tbh, coming back into the hobby after leaving when 4th ed came out (i stuck with 3rd ed for my iron warriors and the funky new plastics) i find a company thats "standardised" all the hobby options, their rules systems are unbalenced and in dire need of yet ANOTHER overhaul. i don't know anymore i really don't.

i fancied some new terminators the other day, £25 for a set of 5 PLASTIC terminators. i could hardly believe it. they're wonderfully sculpted and have some fantastic options but £25?!
i used to be able to spend my pocket money on blisters (i dare you to find a £3 blister nowdays that contains 4 models) or save a bit and buy an entire metal tac squad. now i doubt that adults have much joy in buying this stuff its very very expensive.

what has games workshop done to me? easy they dissapointed me, they forgot they're about the hobby rather then sales and they're continuing to forget this.

i'm not even going to go into what gav thorp does to stories/codexes and the lack of mail order options or the loss of some great minds at gw.

i stick with it because, well i love the painting and the models and i'm one of those sentimental types, plus when i see shiney new models in dynamic poses i loose all control of my senses and just buy like crazy.

I opened up a store in my hometown which was the last drop that made the owners of the much better gamestore close their shop.

I do think some of the store workers are nerdy, not coz they like the ultimate hobby, but because they are social rejects with pimply skin and dorky name tags. Is this a sign that GW is sinking almost toslave labour? I am so in!

Sacrificing their soul for mere money. But doing it so badly that they made less money instead of more.

Dividing Chaos and Daemons in both systems (40K I can just about accept, but Fantasy?!), when they already had a perfectly good system for incorporating Warriors, Daemons and indeed Beasts into one army.

And another thing, this thread, in which the same opinion is shared about GW being dumb half time, is going to make a second page of the same thing. It is like me creating a thread and posting, 'Hi, I can write this stuff down coz I have fingers' until I get kicked out of Dakka.

BrookM wrote:And I also dislike the current generation of store staff, hopeless little gaks they are.

I agree, the first time i went to into a GW shop confused , i was greeted with warm smile and a rather long explanation to what table top games are.

Now when i go to GW im confronted by wide eye rabies staffs that want to sell me some space marines.
( i would say orks but im already purchasing them ;p)

Whenever I go into my local GW the same guy every single time seems to get the idea that I am a total noob and don't know anything about warhammer. Every time I go into the shop I have to endure a 15-20 minute sales pitch on the new minis/paints/accessories coming out.

Now I just order online.

Oh and they got rid of web guns. They should invent a new 40K race just so they can bring back web guns.

I also dont like how GW whore out Space Marines .

Every race is supposed to be unique , but with this many Marine sub codice
it seems like they have a codex for every marine play style now.

Also dont like how they price things...

For me it was invalidating armies/units with a new rules set, such as Lost and the Damned, and breaking up codexes in order to sell new models, such as splitting the Chaos Demons from the Chaos Marines. And of course the rising prices. I started in the hobby with Fantasy, and had several armies. One of my armies was a Chaos army that consisted of Mortals, Beastmen, Demons, Minotaurs, and Dragon Ogres. When GW started splitting the Mortals, Demons, and Beastmen into their own armies, it pretty much invalidated my army, forcing me to either start a new army, which meant buying more models, or stop playing Chaos altogether. Eventually I sold all my fantasy stuff and started playing 40k.

I played Chaos Space Marines mainly when I switched to 40k, and converted up a nice Worldeaters army and an Iron Warriors army, using the rules at first from the Index Astartes articles and then the 3.5 Codex. I also started converting up an Undead Chaos Marine army, which is now the only Chaos Marine army I have. With the options of the 3.5 codex, I could run a CSM army that fit the Undead theme without having to be aligned to any specific Chaos god, but now, not so much. I got rid of the Worldeaters and Iron Warriors before the new CSM codex came along as I wanted to focus on developing the undead theme, but I feel the pain of all the Chaos players who lost so much with the new codex.

The reason I still play? Well, I have narrowed my army choices down to Necrons, my "undead" CSMs, which I can always "count as" whatever i like from the new Codex, and an Armored Company that I play in Apocalypse. I don't need to buy new models, aside from buying a new vehicle every now and then for my armored company, because my armies are pretty much complete and all I have to invest in is the rulebooks. I've been playing for so long that I don't get caught up in the "ooh" and "aahhh" of every new/updated army that comes out, and have pretty much settled in on my 3 army choices, so my wallet isn't hurting much.

All they did to me was make me stop paying full Aus. retail for their products.

These days, all I use the local store for is to check out new releases in the flesh before ordering the same from OS.

I don't get caught up in "new army" syndrome. I HAVE the four armies I like, and have no intentions of starting any more. I've not had any interest in Chaos, orks, tyranids, tau or DE (or variant SM with its own codex) sine the game started.

After collecting for over 20 years, my SM and Eldar armies are at "apoc" sizes (over 10 000pts each), and my DH/WH/IG army is easily capable of going to 4500pts (The DH/WH simply swap HQs, and they and the IG borrow units off each other).

I spend no more than $200 a year on GW. I used to spend that a month (between 2nd and 3rd eds).

LunaHound wrote:I also dont like how GW whore out Space Marines .

Every race is supposed to be unique , but with this many Marine sub codice
it seems like they have a codex for every marine play style now.

Indeed, Space Marines with fleet of foot is just daft. If my Striking Scorpions can't fleet, how can Raven Guard?

Also getting a bit bored of seeing Fantasy Archetypes appear in Space Marines such Norsemen (Space Pups), Vampires (Don't think I didn't see those pointy teeth on the otherwise excellent Blood Angels Terminator Sergeant in Space Hulk GW) & Dragons (Salamanders)

I had managed to mind blank what they did to my fantasy chaos army. I used to get a load of power dice, able to cast a lot of magic each turn from a character who was scary up close as well as from afar.
Now I have.... a 6+ ward save and just sorcerers not warrior mages :(
I'm a sad blue and pink bird thingy.

Lapsed Pacifist wrote:You are all a bunch of pissy bitches.

Hi Jervis, life treating you well?

I went to work for GW in 1997. Worked in the mail order department. I loved my coworkers, I loved being around the games that were my passion. I even loved packing peoples bits orders, trying to see what kind of conversions they were planning. But soon I realized the company itself just sucked out whatever usefulness they could from you and didn't give a gak when you had nothing left to give. They'd just kick people to the curb and bring in another starstruck noob and start over. I stayed about a year, basically until I realized that GW was never going to be able to pay enough to support my growing family.

I still love the games and the models and the hobby. But I'll always have a bad taste in my mouth where corporate GW is concerned. I took a break from the hobby for about 10 years to focus on my family and now that the kids are older I'm starting to get back into it. But damn looking at the new prices, I can see that Corporate GW hasn't changed.

Nothing against them, it's just not a very serious game - by which I mean if you try to make it serious it just falls apart. Still put out great models most of the time. I just wish that they weren't incorporated. Shareholders demand their dividends on top of every employee getting their % raise every year, of course the cost will keep going up.

Flashman wrote:

Lapsed Pacifist wrote:You are all a bunch of pissy bitches.

Hi Jervis, life treating you well?

I LOLd

Lapsed Pacifist wrote:You are all a bunch of pissy bitches.

And you're a shooting star.

You will have a very bright and very short time at this website...

Which will also probably end by colliding into the moon.

Truth hurts...

Somebody said something again...

EDIT - I don't normally allow myself to be dragged into this kind of witty repartee, but seriously are you like 12 or something?

No just fed up with all the moaning, my own fault really, the amount of time i've spent reading this shiz.

I blame Jervis.

...

...

...

That doesn't really apply here, does it?

Lapsed Pacifist wrote:No just fed up with all the moaning, my own fault really, the amount of time i've spent reading this shiz.

Ah well, that explains it, although this is not really the right forum for those who get fed with all the moaning so quickly. Anyway, I tip my hat to you sir and bid you a pleasant day.

GW per se has done nothing to me. I even understand their need to continously rise prices but when people start the GW HOBBY song:

"Woe, woe, woe! You are hurting the HOOOOOOOOOOBBY when you buy non GW glue; woe, woe, woe!"(Copyright GW 40,000"

I go spare and kill little kids with Dark Eldar figs.

M.

Flashman wrote:

Lapsed Pacifist wrote:You are all a bunch of pissy bitches.

Hi Jervis, life treating you well?

H.B.M.C. wrote:I blame Jervis.

...

...

...

That doesn't really apply here, does it?

1. Bravo, Brilliant.

2. Everything is Jervis's fault. Jervis was the one that gave Jesus to the Romans. Jervis was secretly the real guy who killed Lincoln. And Jervis was responsible for Daemonhunters*shudder*.

I hold GW responsible for the following things:

In 1984 opening a young man up to the hobby of miniature painting and collecting which captured his love of sci fi and fantasy perfectly. (I still love you Marauder Dwarves).

Pioneering kits which could be assembled easily in a variety of poses (Thank you Plastic Beakies).

Being a large corporate entity with a movie tie in so large that I could rediscover the hobby in 2001. (Thank you LOTR minis in a Barnes and Noble).

Being a gateway manufacturer. Allowing me to discover other companies minis, products, and games. (Rackham, Wyrd, Helldorado, Infinity.)

Having good material for entry level gamers and hobbiests in White Dwarf. (I read the painting articles still)

Providing the background material to read in the late hours of the evening... allowing an old guy to dream about the Dark future 40K. (Horus Heresy books)

Giving a 40 year old man the ability to play with his toys and rekindle his imagination with a paint brush and dice.(I love to paint and play with my army)

Providing the foundation to a hobby in which I can move around the country (and overseas) and ALWAYS find a group of like minded, friendly folks to share a fun time and make new friends. (I search LGS where I travel and always try and bring some gaming stuff with me)

Enabling me to establish a large base folks locally and nationally which I meet at the LGS, basements, tournaments and conventions. Many of these people have become my closest friends and boon companions. One has even become a God Parent to my children.

GW has lastly provided a hobby that my children have slowly gained an interest. Allowing me to share painting and rolling dice. (even at 3 and 5 years old)

Yes... GW has done this to me..... I thank them.

Lapsed Pacifist wrote:SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!111!!!!!1!

LUL WUT?

H.B.M.C. wrote:I blame Jervis.

...

...

...

That doesn't really apply here, does it?

The definition in your sig would make it apply if you really wanted it to

Tim the Biovore wrote:And Jervis was responsible for Daemonhunters*shudder*.

Hey I like Daemonhunters.

Tim the Biovore wrote:
2. Everything is Jervis's fault. Jervis was the one that gave Jesus to the Romans. Jervis was secretly the real guy who killed Lincoln. And Jervis was responsible for Daemonhunters*shudder*.

He was the man on the grassy knoll, too.

I hate how they push White Dwarf so much in their stores. Yakface and I had a bit of fun at one employee's expense about that.

GW took my plastic crack addiction up another level especially with the release of excellent models like the Valk (imo the best vehicle in the GW range).

Platuan4th wrote:He was the man on the grassy knoll, too.

And he was Kennedy. I know, it doesn't make sense, but does it have to when Jervis is involved?

Jervis framed roger rabbit.

jgemrich wrote:I hold GW responsible for the following things:

In 1984 opening a young man up to the hobby of miniature painting and collecting which captured his love of sci fi and fantasy perfectly. (I still love you Marauder Dwarves).

Pioneering kits which could be assembled easily in a variety of poses (Thank you Plastic Beakies).

Being a large corporate entity with a movie tie in so large that I could rediscover the hobby in 2001. (Thank you LOTR minis in a Barnes and Noble).

Being a gateway manufacturer. Allowing me to discover other companies minis, products, and games. (Rackham, Wyrd, Helldorado, Infinity.)

Having good material for entry level gamers and hobbiests in White Dwarf. (I read the painting articles still)

Providing the background material to read in the late hours of the evening... allowing an old guy to dream about the Dark future 40K. (Horus Heresy books)

Giving a 40 year old man the ability to play with his toys and rekindle his imagination with a paint brush and dice.(I love to paint and play with my army)

Providing the foundation to a hobby in which I can move around the country (and overseas) and ALWAYS find a group of like minded, friendly folks to share a fun time and make new friends. (I search LGS where I travel and always try and bring some gaming stuff with me)

Enabling me to establish a large base folks locally and nationally which I meet at the LGS, basements, tournaments and conventions. Many of these people have become my closest friends and boon companions. One has even become a God Parent to my children.

GW has lastly provided a hobby that my children have slowly gained an interest. Allowing me to share painting and rolling dice. (even at 3 and 5 years old)

Yes... GW has done this to me..... I thank them.

My hat is off to you sir. Bravo! I wish people would focus more on the positive such as yourself.

Jervis stole Christmas.

Alienating their customer base by:

*Not releasing product information outside the 3 month window.

*Overly aggressive enforcement of IP (and don’t give me any legal lip about this, other companies do it far more effectively and balanced with consumer interest.)

*Lack incorporating customer feedback for future products/promotions.

*Silencing critical feedback. The customer is right the majority of the time. Most successful games companies know this. GW does not. Remember the GW forums? I have personally spoken to Jervis Johnson and Paul Sawyer regarding my polite feedback on 40K and EPIC. Didn’t hear a word I said. If there wasn’t any security, I would have gotten into a fist fight with Paul. That guy is a pure tool.


Not embracing independent retailers (America)

*Strategy of opening GW stores in the same markets as successful FLGS and putting them out of business.

*Enforcing bizarre policy’s to limit third party internet sales while having a pretty crappy web store themselves.

*Many horror stories from the trades sales folks but I’ve heard this has gotten better.


Poor Marketing strategy

*See first two bullets.

*Pricing models based on unit effectiveness.

*Super secret limited edition mystery releases aka Space Hulk. I mean WTF is up with that? Lots of folks love this game and would have bought it if you just came out and said it. You know, with model previews and stuff.

*Turning white dwarf into a sales flyer. The last issue I read was #141.


Poor Product Development

*Rules with apparently little to no playtesting.

*Poorly organized codex books.

*Over emphasis on Spayce Mehreez…HUR!

*Infrequent release schedule. How long did Orks wait for a codex?

*Not releasing products to fully meet customer demands. Examples: CSM codex, Codex Eldar, removal of customizable list such as traits, etc.

I think my only real complaints with GW (Aside from predictable stuff like pricing) are a lack of FAQs/errata, and their habit of packaging stuff so that it's as difficult as possible for competitive players to build armies.

What I mean by the latter is that many units (sisters, stormtroopers, mech vets) are best fielded with multiple of the same special weapon, but GW makes it difficult to get multiples of that special. A mech vet squad requires three meltas, you have to either buy a $25 box or a $15 blister to get one.

jgemrich wrote:I hold GW responsible for the following things:

In 1984 opening a young man up to the hobby of miniature painting and collecting which captured his love of sci fi and fantasy perfectly. (I still love you Marauder Dwarves).

Pioneering kits which could be assembled easily in a variety of poses (Thank you Plastic Beakies).

Being a large corporate entity with a movie tie in so large that I could rediscover the hobby in 2001. (Thank you LOTR minis in a Barnes and Noble).

Being a gateway manufacturer. Allowing me to discover other companies minis, products, and games. (Rackham, Wyrd, Helldorado, Infinity.)

Having good material for entry level gamers and hobbiests in White Dwarf. (I read the painting articles still)

Providing the background material to read in the late hours of the evening... allowing an old guy to dream about the Dark future 40K. (Horus Heresy books)

Giving a 40 year old man the ability to play with his toys and rekindle his imagination with a paint brush and dice.(I love to paint and play with my army)

Providing the foundation to a hobby in which I can move around the country (and overseas) and ALWAYS find a group of like minded, friendly folks to share a fun time and make new friends. (I search LGS where I travel and always try and bring some gaming stuff with me)

Enabling me to establish a large base folks locally and nationally which I meet at the LGS, basements, tournaments and conventions. Many of these people have become my closest friends and boon companions. One has even become a God Parent to my children.

GW has lastly provided a hobby that my children have slowly gained an interest. Allowing me to share painting and rolling dice. (even at 3 and 5 years old)

Yes... GW has done this to me..... I thank them.

You sir, have won this thread.

Here is my list of complaints that contribute to my current bitterness.

Changing rules in such a way that lists become invalid or their is a drastic change in the meta game. All of the below basically can be summed up with the common statement, they aren't consistant.

The change from 2nd to 3rd edition totally invalidated my terminator heavy CSM army. This wasn't as big a deal as the army was small, but it was rather annoying to go from a good force, to basically having an unfeildable army.

The change from 3rd to 4th edition invalidated all rhino rush armies. My rhinos go from being good to worthless upon one release.

The change from 4th to 5th edition make armies which have smaller squads with lots of unique models more vunerable than armies who have vanilla squads. Killing the sgt and weapons out of a SM squad is far easier than killing the knob in a boyz squad. Especially when the cover save rules are applied.

CSM 3.5 to CSM 4/5 for every single reason stated previously by others in any thread.

Lack of consitancy between similar units across codecies. Units will be priced similiar with drastically different abilities across several armies.

Supposedly army specific abilities becoming common in other armies.

Constant flipping between melee and ranged being the dominate tactic for a given army.

Models

Releasing options in the codex which are not available. Why does the Valk kit not include the Vendetta guns? Why can't I get a combi-plasma CSM terminator?

No bits support to even allow the above to be converted. Why do I have to ebay/warstore dual lightning claws? Why is their no meltagun bit?

Boxed sets not being able to support a given unit setup. CSM box with only 1 heavy weapon option and one of each special weapon.

Metal models being produced in the least favorable setup for that model. Plasma pistol & power weapon IG sgt, please.

Changing some models so often that my army looks like it was 100% ebayed, from 8 different people (Bloodletters) while other models have not been updated in 12 years (CSM dread).

General angst against the player base.

Lack of FAQ updates. Those that are released generate just as many questions as they supposedly fixed.

Never admitting they screwed up.

Never addressing issues until they rerelease the whole codex. A simple C:CSM and Ceamons can allie would fix a lot of the angst..

WD turning into a sales brochure..

Lack of direct feedback and updates..

Lack of playtesting.

I'm glad Privateer Press is around.

Techboss wrote: Why is their no meltagun bit?

Actually, there is

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1660260&rootCatGameStyle=

That just stuck out at me. Not enough experience to comment here, although the guard squad box size change hit me right when I least expected it.

LunaHound wrote:

BrookM wrote:And I also dislike the current generation of store staff, hopeless little gaks they are.

I agree, the first time i went to into a GW shop confused , i was greeted with warm smile and a rather long explanation to what table top games are.

Now when i go to GW im confronted by wide eye rabies staffs that want to sell me some space marines.
( i would say orks but im already purchasing them ;p)

I've totally given up by now, im just being rude, it's terrible, I went in to get some clanrats, felt like painting some.

I go up to pay, amazed I havent been intercepted by an over eager staffer so im at the counter, the chap comes over

"Aaahh, clanrats, you starting an army?"

"I'm thinking about it"

"oh well what you want is this regiment box *grabs box*"

"well actually I want a box of clanrats...."

*Awkward Silence*

"Oh"

I felt kinda bad after that, but feth it, I've been in the hobby for coming up on a decadeI don't need some kid in a hobby centre telling me what I do and do not want.

GW had the sheer temerity to raise prices and change stuff.

*After* I had gotten fair playing value out of the stuff.

Totally unacceptable.

Hi all.
GW started by suppliying loads of enthusiasm and inspiration to help me to embrace 'MY hobby.'
(Similar to some of the good experiances jgemrich listed.)

Then some time 'post PLC' they stopped supporting 'my hobby' and just sold the 'GW HOBBY'.(tm)
(The 'GW HOBBY', which appears to be handing over loads of cash to GW, for products you can get much cheaper elsewhere.)

As they were promoting things of little interest to me,(poor rules, overpriced hobby supplies and minatures.)

I stopped buying GW stuff.

I get better value for money from other companies.Simple as that realy.

TTFN
Lanrak.

What have they done to me?

Cancer.

Who's to blame?

Jervis.

GW released a pretty cool codex called the Eye of Terror upon which I built a $600+ army which won numerous best painted and players choice awards at various tournaments. Two years later – my army collects dust.

That’s what GW did to me and, although I still enjoy the people I game with, It’s disappointing that GW would feel that releasing 4 army variants, accompanying models, and rules, allowing players to spend time and money on something that they no longer support within the tournament circuit is acceptable.

GW touched me in my private place. That's me a sad panda :(

I spent two years working at Iron Wind Metals (the NDA's up now), and I saw copies of internal GW Marketing Dept. memos that were "acquired" by our staff members. The header was, and no-gak, I quote: "How we're going to feth over our customers this year". EDIT: Clearly, the filter has intruded. However, I think you can tell what was ACTUALLY said.

Further, I know how much effort and cost it takes to produce metal minis, and did the cost estimations for IWM branching into plastics (my father works for an injection-molding company, I used his contact list to get started). I know how much it should cost to create, produce, market, and sell both plastic and metal gaming miniatures. GW's prices are solidly 30% above where they be, allowing for a 10% profit margin (which is incredibly good, actually, in ANY industry), and that's allowing for the insane increases in the price of tin over the last four years (it essentially quadrupled).

It's price-gouging. Flat-out. Nobody who matters cares, because it's not a "necessary" product like food or gasoline...but it's price-gouging nonetheless. By ANY reasonable standard, your $18 US special character should be about $12 US.

Thus, GW earns my ire and contempt.

And yet, Privateer and Rackham and the rest charge just as much per mini as GW.

Share the hate around while you're at it.

I've only been playing for about 2-3 years so the prices haven't gotten much worse, but I could tell they were way to high just based on the savings in the big boxes they sell...except that huge one for $1000 something. The thing GW did to me that pissed me off was CANCELING LA GAMES DAY! WTF! That was the event that really got me started 2 years ago...then last years was great, and this year they blow it away. Games Day was awesome as I loved all the different stuff you'd see and the big game, and speed painting. All such a good weekend (we'd crash at a friends nearby) for our group. Also where I spent the most of my money on GW stuff. Got the 4th ed big Space Marines box first year, then a figure case last year.
/rant

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41WtE1-Vk3L._SS500_.jpg

This is why I hate GW.

JohnHwangDD wrote:GW had the sheer temerity to raise prices and change stuff.

*After* I had gotten fair playing value out of the stuff.

Totally unacceptable.

I Agree!

While we are at it, lets pay Games Workshop a monthly subscription fee of $9.99. Works for Blizzard so why not Gw?

Fateweaver wrote:http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41WtE1-Vk3L._SS500_.jpg

This is why I hate GW.

Then your reason to hate GW no longer exist,it's been replaced with one of my reasons to hate them.

GW introduced me to a hobby I quite enjoy. For me, Space Marine was the game that introduced me into the hobby. I've played Space Marine, Necromunda, Mordheim, Warhammer Fantasy, Warhammer 40k, Man-O-War and a few others I'm sure I've forgotten.

Am I bitter at GW? Nope - can't say that I am. Am I disappointed in some of the choices that GW has made with regards to the hobby? Yes, I am.

Here's why:

#1: what originally attracted me to the hobby was the wide variety of choice that existed. As time has gone on, these choices seem to be diminishing. I expect in the future this will turn around, but at the moment this is resulting in me playing less than I used to, and has also resulted in me spending less on GW product than I used to.

#2: Not only has the amount of choice gone down, but GW has made some outright errors which have made the game less enjoyable. Chaos Daemons is an example in Fantasy. Errors will happen - maybe they didn't anticipate some of the consequences of the list design, what-have-you. But the fact that they refuse to acknowledge their error, and work on correcting it, I find simply abhorrent. They are more interested in defending the party line than looking at the situation, realising that they have created a monster, and taking the necessary steps to bring parity to their game.

#3: I am disappointed that they eliminated the bitz ordering service as it added a great depth to the hobby in the ability to make conversions etc.

#4: I am disappointed that they would choose to pull model lines that people want to use in their armies when they do not have replacements available

What's the result? I'm playing and more interested in Privateer Press than GW. Once they right their ship and start moving back in the direction I'm looking for, I'll start buying their product again - and if they don't? Well, they'll have lost my business.

I don't see any reason to be bitter about it though.

Just ask my Genestealer Cult what they did...

Or my buddy's Chaos Dwarves in Fantasy.

FITZZ wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41WtE1-Vk3L._SS500_.jpg

This is why I hate GW.

Then your reason to hate GW no longer exist,it's been replaced with one of my reasons to hate them.

So I can't hold a grudge?

Guess CWE players should get over it to or IG drop troop players should get over it to.

Meh. Whatever.

jp400 wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:GW had the sheer temerity to raise prices and change stuff.

*After* I had gotten fair playing value out of the stuff.

Totally unacceptable.

I Agree!

While we are at it, lets pay Games Workshop a monthly subscription fee of $9.99. Works for Blizzard so why not Gw?

You know, I was trying to work out whether I'd have paid more or less with a $10 subscription.

I've been playing 40k more-or-less continuously since the tail end of 2nd Edition (1998), so that's nearly 12 years. $10/mos is $120/yr, or $1,400 starting 1998.

The question is what that $1,400 would cover. As this is GW, then it's merely rules access (minis are extra, of course), so I look at the rules I own:
RT: VM, CA, StD
2E: UM, AoD, Chaos, Eldar, IG, SoB, Assassins
3E: DE, SM , BA, DA, SoB, IG, Armag, CSM, Eldar, CWE, Assassins, CA, Harlies, GSC
4E: SM, CSM, DH, WH, Apoc
5E: SM, CSM, IG, Eldar

$1,400 for ~40 Codices translates into $35/book - tho, if I include all of the SG and WFB stuff, it's under $30/book. If I include WDs that were bought for rules purposes, I'm down to around $25/book.

So actually, $10/month for rulebooks isn't bad, aside from the MMO thing of losing everything if you let your subscription lapse...

GW has never "done" anything for me at all, neither for good nor evil. I'm teetering on the precipice of complete apathy regarding the game and my models, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Wow, so much criticism, who knew that one thread would stir up this amount of negativity!

GW killed the squats, its a mass genocide that is greater than or equal to what hitler did, so in a logical mind.
GW > Hitler..just my two cents.

In all truth though GW Just needs to open up and give us information on upcoming releases. It would not hurt them. In fact having a a solid 1 year plan made public would allow players to have things to hope/ save up money for the new items and thus stay in the game. Keeping these things secret are pure nonsence, all you have to do is say next year it will be tyranids, blood angels, and dark eldar. Thats all i want.

WEll i lie, if GW raises their prices im sure i'd burn the factory to smolds.

JohnHwangDD wrote:And yet, Privateer and Rackham and the rest charge just as much per mini as GW.

Share the hate around while you're at it.

They only charge what they do because GW has shown them they can get away with it. So I still blame GW above all else.

While we are at it, lets pay Games Workshop a monthly subscription fee of $9.99. Works for Blizzard so why not Gw?

You laugh now, but I wouldn't kid about crap like that. GW might actually consider it.

GW has never "done" anything for me at all, neither for good nor evil. I'm teetering on the precipice of complete apathy regarding the game and my models, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I always thought you were just apathetic about everything.

Wow, so much criticism, who knew that one thread would stir up this amount of negativity!

Welcome to the internet, you must be new here.

GW killed the squats, its a mass genocide that is greater than or equal to what hitler did, so in a logical mind.
GW > Hitler..just my two cents.

Actually, I agree, that's one of the main reasons why I hate them so much. They've proven that they will kill off an entire army and invalidate all the money and time you spent collecting their overpriced gak, with no warning, because they couldn't get enthused by them.

Jervis on Squats.

I'm just waiting for the day when Tyranids devour every single Tau sept world, because no one at the studio was all that interested in the army and couldn't think of any creative or interesting way to make that army "work"...

@Sid, for the record, only the first of those quotes is mine.

I will actually put this as a spoiler, due to the high likelyhood of people suffering from heart attacks when they read it.

Wierd, isn't it?

Other than that, nothing yet.

Sidstyler wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:While we are at it, lets pay Games Workshop a monthly subscription fee of $9.99. Works for Blizzard so why not Gw?

You laugh now, but I wouldn't kid about crap like that. GW might actually consider it.

They already do this, they call it White Dwarf, though it is 99 cents cheaper than your proposal.

GW robbed me of my childhood and several thousands of dollars! Do I regret any of it? Only parts I can't actually pin any blame on GW over.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Tim the Biovore wrote:And Jervis was responsible for Daemonhunters*shudder*.

Hey I like Daemonhunters.

Maybe Yes, but you won't like em once he takes control.

As for Sid, that day will come soon.

Tim the Biovore wrote:As for Sid, that day will come soon.

I hope not, seeing as how my participation in the hobby would be effectively over at that point. The only army I have is Tau, and the minute my codex stops receiving support I'm jumping ship to a better game.

@Sid, for the record, only the first of those quotes is mine.

I know that, I originally quoted your post. I'll be damned if I'm going to type everyone's name in those quote boxes though.

GW STOLE my models. That's what GW did to me and is the reason I refuse to let anyone connected to Forgeworld photograph my models or anyone I think is connected to WD. Let me tell you a tale...............

Anyone who's seen my stuff, knows I take great pride in converting as many models as I can, theming my army and making it unique. About 10yrs ago now, the Store Manager of my local GW said I should contact WD and get them to do an article on my company of Legion of the Damned. It wasn't Golden Daemon standard, but as a complete army, it looked impressive. So I did, arranged to meet them at GW HQ, and they turned up to meet me in the main hall. One of the more unique models was my LOD biker where I'd used a plastic Skelton horse, to replace part of the bike and the WD guy (Tim.. can't remember) asked me to write an article on how I did it, what bits I'd used and took some pictures of it. So I wrote the article and emailed it in. Nothing for 6 months. About 9 months later, the first Space Marine collectors guide was released, and towards the back, was my LOD biker conversion, painted and converted by the WD guy who came to see me! Not happy.

My Genestealer Cult army (I've won painting awards for this army) consisted of 6 Chimera's for my Brood Brothers. I'd made side spaced armour for them all, because I really liked the spaced armour on the Rhino's (the old metal armour version for the original Rhino). I was playing at GW HQ again, and a guy from Forgeworld came by, asking about my army, and took pick's of my Forgeworld Warhounds painted for my cultists. His attentions then turned to my Chimera's, more importantly, the armour. After handling it, asking lots, and taking pics, he walked off, I thought nothing more. 6 months later, Forgeworld release near identical Spaced Armour as mine as Chimera Upgrades.

My Thousand Son's Terminators (I've won painting awards for this army). Heavily converted, a squad of 9 cost me about 130 GBP to make because of the parts used. Again, playing at GW HQ, one of the staff comes out to have a 'ooooo' and an 'ahhhh' over the army and then took a load of pics on his phone. 4 months later on the GW web site, is an 'how to convert Thousand Sons Terminators' article, written by the staff member showing off his converted and painted Thousand Sons Terminators, identical to mine!

Whilst I know this is a hobby, and people steal and plagiarise other peoples idea's (I've done so myself), what I object to is GW taking idea's of hobbyists, and then claiming its their own. This probably isn't the company per say, its more the individuals, but they are representatives of the company. If they've done it to me, they've done it to others. So now when I see unique GW converted models or modelling articles, I always think I wonder who actually come up with that idea! I still let people take pics of my armies as they always attract a lot of attention, but if they are wearing a GW shirt or pass, its a firm no!

This clearly upsets me, so later I'll write the +ve's about the hobby

Just for fun:

Then:
RBT01 "Beakie" Space Marine box: 30 multi-pose Space Marines for twenty bucks American with multiple weapon options and character models.

Now:
Space Marine Terminator set: 5 plastic terminators for fifty freaking bucks.

SecretSquig:

The lesson here is simple - stop playing at GWHQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Commissar Molotov wrote:Just for fun:

Then:
RBT01 "Beakie" Space Marine box: 30 multi-pose Space Marines for twenty bucks American with multiple weapon options and character models.

Now:
Space Marine Terminator set: 5 plastic terminators for fifty freaking bucks.

And you could pretty much make your army just those 30 Space Marines too, couldn't you?

My Chaos Terminator Lord I converted and painted is based of Fil Dunn's Steel Brethren Sorcerer. And all of my friends now ad extensive amounts of blood to thier guys probably just coz I started to.

No, Tim,I've hardly seen your models gory orks was my choice! *sticks tongue out*

Funneh, my warboss's klaw was smothered in blood, as were all my Nob's weapons when I was at your house. No influence what so ever? Unlikley.

What? Orks are called the *flips through codex* most bloodthirsty aliens in the galaxy for a reason!

Listen, you got a problem, deal with it and stop wasting the time of these good people.

But I like my blood... ) ':

RTB01 how I miss it. That with a tenner for 2 rhino's and maybe £4 or £5 for a few heavy weapons and characters army sorted.

Remember the great guard and ork boxes they did?

Value for our money bring it back. The post on the cost of producing those miniatures shows what an insane profit margin they have, guess the only option you'll ever have though to show them they have went too far is stop buying from them. You hit their profits they will listen, otherwise they're just going to keep hiking the prices up.

GW claiming your own ideas as theirs however really disgusts me, credit where credit is due imo.

And agreeing witrh the bits ordering service dissapearing was a huge blow to the modellers. I think its just their attempt to make us buy full kits to get one single peice from it at a stupidly higher cost than that one metal peice from a model. There is being a business and then just taking greed too far. Ebay for the win.

Monthly subscription? Hehe I just kicked that habit after a couple of years, but Blizzard and GW have something in common, their product is getting worse and worse each release with too many fan boys. At least some criticism of blizzard was allowed on their forums though and not quietly removed like Big Brothers agents would have done.

GW probably figures they own all of your conversion ideas anyway, since you're using their IP.

Honestly though you can't really copyright something like a pose, so you can't really say they're "stealing" anything from you...unless of course they post a picture of your model and claim that some guy in the studio painted and converted it, which is bs.

I think it's more they are presenting the whole idea as their own?

Sidstyler wrote:

Honestly though you can't really copyright something like a pose, so you can't really say they're "stealing" anything from you...unless of course they post a picture of your model and claim that some guy in the studio painted and converted it, which is bs.

GW did not print a picture of my model. My beef is that their WD contributer, took photo's of my converted model, got me to write a 'how to' guide, and led me to beleive that it would be published in WD. Then did it himself and published it in the book. As hobbyists, we do it all the time copying an idea, but as a company, its not acceptable IMO. My -ve's about GW I've mentioned previously in this thread. I also don't beleive GW's strategy is to look after their customers long term, more of a take the next year of 12 year olds into the fold for a couple of years, when the real spending power is with the more mature gammer.

But what about the +ve's?

I first got into the Hobby through Space Crusde, my first GW games were Space Hulk and Space Marine (Epic) bought for Christmas. Since that time GW has allowed my imagination and creativity to continue for +20yrs. In a world where everyhting is the latest gadget, I still sit here for hours with a knife, glue, paints, and just paint.
I have a very stressful job. I'm currently on assignment in Saudi Arabia and I'm living in a tent on the end of an Airbase in the middle of no-where and 'things' could kick off at any moment. GW gives me a release from the world I'm in. I'm not sitting in a tent in 54 degrees, I'm bringing his Ork Eavy Bomma to life, making it real, creating the 48th replacement aircraft required for the most successful Ork pilot in Vulcha Squadron, RazzNutz (readers of the old Inferno mags will know to whom I refer )
GW allow me to inspire people. When my armies are out on a table, they attrack a lot of attention, kids love them, and it inspires them to go and improve themselves.
I'm 31 and I still play 'toy soliders' with my friends of similar ages, nowadays it more centers around a BBQ with half a dead cow on it and large quantities of beers. If we are not round one of our houses, we are at GW HQ, where the WAGs tag along, taking equal amounts of spending money which we intend to use on new toys, and they bugger off to Nottingham Town Centre shops for the day. GW gives me a Social gathering with friends.
I've an 8 year old Nephew who's determined to have an army in order to fight 'uncle G'. GW puts me on the same level as my 8yr old nephew.
Value for money? GW prices are high, but for the cost of a night out on the town, I could buy a battleforce, which would give me 20-30 times the entertainment time building and painting it, than the night out on the town. Then there's the gaming time........
GW is good for young people. Lets face it, they spend far too much time on Facebook or sitting in front of the TV. With GW their imagination runs wild taking command of an army or small force, making them make choices, maths, imagination, social, dedication, all these skills come from the GW hobby.

GW is my release from the world, I bring dead lumps of plastic and metal to life by painting them into colourful characters and when I'm painting, I forget about all the sh*te going on around me.

Hi again.
I just like to put TheSecretSquig right on a few points...

All the positives you list are down to your own imagination and creativity, and the wonderful 'table top minature gaming' hobby.
You chose to use GW product and venues , you are not enabled by GW PLC, but GW PLC is enabled by you!

As reguards to price , much cheaper products are available of similar or better quality.GW seem to attract more custom due to proliferation and higher profile.And a mis-leading sales pitch.

I am rather shocked that such an intelegent an mature person could succum to the 'GW brain wash' of 'we own this hobby and let you participate'.
And as such I felt compelled to post.

TTFN
Lanrak.

Lanrak - Sorry I disagree. There is not a wargames company on the market other than GW that has a background as rich, in depth, or as diverse as the one GW has created that allows a persons creativity and imagination to develop. GW create the most minatures than any other wargames company and the models hey creat certainly give you the more flexability due to their design.

No other company can provide a new young wargamer the inspiration (like when ou first walked in a GW store) or everything under one roof (Game, models, paints, toolsl, rules etc). Once your hooked on the hobby, then, like myself and many other hobbyists, do you look outside the GW blinkers and get other tools, models etc from other sources to supplement your hobby.

I beleive GW is the core of everyones hobby, otherwise you wouldn't be on this forum

What I don't like about GW besides prices?
MY FRICKING EXPENSIVE, PERSONALLY BOUGHT, 15 EUROS EACH COSTING KROXIGORS SUCK NOW. ALSO MY SKINKS CAN'T HAVE SCOUTS NOW. GODDAMMIT!
And that, my fellow nerds, is what I hate about GW.

I have to say that I totally agree with the points that the positive posters are saying, up to a point. Casual gaming and enjoying the hobby "as it comes out of the box" is great. You have the pleasure of painting the models, playing with friends and even getting the kids involved.

However from what I've read in this post, it's when you move up to the next stage that GW becomes the monster. You invest time and money in an army that GW has released & promoted, only to see it become unsupported and invalid a short time down the road. The army may stay valid, but over time it suffers due to the codex being left behind, or you have to remodel it / purchase new models due to the new codex invalidating certain weapon combos.

As long as you don't expect or want too much out the GW universe, then what they are selling works. It's just a shame that GW appear to be happy with this model of business, when they could do so much more with it.

What I don't like is the LoTR Ringwraiths getting named and having that sense of fear lost.

They left me...

Oh and if you were an Iron Warrior's player and bought a basilisk you wasted 40 bucks as of the new Chaos codex.

During the Golden Age (good old days) of Games Workshop.. Reasonable pricing (£10 a box set).. Component ordering (Mail Order).. And the hobby was about the hobby.

But now during their green age.. Yes I said the word

GW have out priced most new starters to the hobby. On three occasions I have introduced my friends to it, they have said yeah its great just its too costly. Though during the Golden Age an army of plastic miniatures was easy to achieve even at £10.

In fairness to GW, most other hobbies cost near enough the same amount of coin to start up.. For example:-
Fishing (Rod, Reel, Landing net, Hold Alls etc and then a Licence) £300
American Football (Helmet, Shoulder pads, etc) £280

Average 40k army £200 - £250
Average WFB army £300

Then over the years what happened, inflation.. yeah right!
Basic box sets go from £10 - (Cheap) £12 (Fair enough) - £15 (Valuable for money vs. other mini companies) - £18 (Just suck my Squig and call me Lucy) 80% rise over 2 years.. for sake


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Getting rid of my Mail Order, Yes it was just made for me.. really stuck the squig!

I started the hobby first as a painter not as a gamer.. so having the service of part ordering was great
Converting your minis any way your wanted. Now what actually made their company they got rid of.. WHAT A SET OF DONKEYS !

EEORE doesn't even come close to describing how I feel after my "new army" now looks exactly the same as the spoilt little rich kid next to me.

Again to be fair to GW they have brought out Bitz Packs.. Yeah were saved! Balls




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Staff Member Discount

Staff members would receive 50% of the price when buying it in the store

If they wanted staff could go on a "Lead Pick" basically walk around the vast trays of GW components and pick or scoop the amounts of miniatures they wanted. All this was done at Lead Weight, meaning that whatever it weighed on the scale it was priced against £35 per kilo.

I'll give you some non exaggerated examples
55 Metal Guardsmen including heavy weapon models
£30 Greater Daemon for £3-5

Plastics was based on 75p per sprue and at the time of release the new Land Raider worked out as £3 (6 sprues)

Though GW doesnt let staff members "Lead Pick" anymore because its the Green Age, they still get the 50%. Which is fair due to the pay rate they get.

Although I still play and enjoy their games, I hate GW with an unforgiving passion. I make it a practice to give as little money to them as possible and while I may buy the occasional codex from them (walking into a FLGS with a codex downloaded from a file sharing site might raise a few eyebrows after all) I never buy any miniatures unless they are second hand from Ebay and the like.
Others have outlined most of the gripes I have against GW, so outlining my reasons for my hatred would be repetative. However I will add to the discussion by correcting a point someone made.

Earlier someone claimed that back during 2nd ed. 40k that GW could do no wrong. This is simply incorrect. While they were certainly not nearly as bad back in those days, they still did unethical things. My two favorites are:
-Their releasing two major rules update books for Rogue Trader (Vehicle Manual and the Battle Manual) literally just a couple of months before the release of 2nd edition made all the RT material obsolete. The did a repeat performance of this stunt on a lesser level with the release of the 2nd ed. "Codex Assasins" shortly before the advent of 3rd ed.
-The way they cynically used the (mostly baseless) "lead scare" of the early '90s as an excuse to implement their first major price increase, and shamelessly lie about it at the same time. I've written several times here and elsewere about the details of the "lead scare", so I won't go into that baseless bugbear again. However at the height of the scare, GW anounced that as a service to their customers they would be now be producing all metal models in a new lead-free alloy and that blister prices would not be going up. When the new lead-free blisters hit the shelves soon after, they were indeed priced the same as the old ones, but the model count in said blisters was half that of the old ones! This 100% price increase remains GW's biggest price hike (despite the fact there is no real difference between the cost of casting in lead-based alloys and pewter based ones) , and just set the stage for all those that have come since. The way they out and out lied to everyone's face set the tone for the way they have dealt with their customers ever since.

TR
Being screwed over by GW since 1989...

edit: BTW, these two GW transgression are things that I've never seen even their most rabid of defenders/fanboys be able to sucessfully defend. The one time I brought these up to a current GW studio staffer over at that other high traffic GW game site he tried to brush it off by saying "I was not employed by GW at the time so I can't speak to that."

I definately agree it's too pricey, and although I live for GW artwork, new army books really annoy me, I wish they would reach a point where I can use my book for longer than a few months.

They also tried to sell me the new hardback fantasy rulebook, when we were talking about 40k.

The top ten

1. prices
2. codex chaos 4th edition
3. uneven, slow and irregular release schedule
4. blatant and manipulative sales techniques
5. white dwarf
6. codex blood angels 4th edition
7. 5th edition rules that nerfed eldar
8. making their sales assistents so pushy
9. making everything so bloody imperial-centric
10. taking away bitz ordering

I could go on, but you really don't want me to lol


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11. Telling me that classic Harlequins would not be removed from the classic and collectors range, three weeks before they were

Trench-Raider wrote:
-Their releasing two major rules update books for Rogue Trader (Vehicle Manual and the Battle Manual) literally just a couple of months before the release of 2nd edition made all the RT material obsolete.

Ooh that's the one that stopped me playing 40k for nearly 10 years! (still played Epic though )

They Stole my Puppy, Poisned my food and eat my Sanvich!!!

GW lead me to Dakka Dakka.

Thank you, GW.

Hey, they are good for something!

I love GW. I love thier models and I love their games. However I am not of the opinion that they can do no wrong. Their first main problem is the current state of thei retail philosophy. When I got and into the hobby and later on when I worked at on of their mall sites and then at a bunker the red shirt was a HOBBY SPECIALIST. These are the guys that taught me how to play and how to paint. And in return I spent stupid amounts of money. Later on as I worked there I tried to be like them. Always wanting to get people excited about the hobby. Most of the people at my store liked me because I was not pushy. But I still sold stuff. I got people excited about the hobby, not about spending money. Now as I look and see what is going it (specifically in my old stomping grounds....LA) makes me sick. The word from the regional managers mouth was that he wants people that can sell not people that can hobby. Why would I pay full retail price to go to GW store where the guys have no clue what they are talking about instead of going to an independent retailer and getting a discount? GW retail has lost its way.

Now as far as the cost........it is what it is. And the sad fact is that there most likely wont be an across the board price cut. I love the models and am willing to shell out the cash for them. It is an expensive hobby but no more than others. Hell I wish playing hockey was as cheap as GW stuff. And as far as the rules and codexes.....in no way are they perfect. My favorite army....the Dark Angels have a big turd of a codex in my opinion. But the last few 40k codexes to come out look legit. And lets face it no one is perfect. There are flaws and bugs in video games. All in all I love the hobby and love it as much as the first day I discovered it.

@Cato - They took away your lightning claws and gave you a pistol, sword and a funny hat. That's gotta hurt.

H.B.M.C. wrote:@Cato - They took away your lightning claws and gave you a pistol, sword and a funny hat. That's gotta hurt.

They also made me grow my mohawk out into some faggy hairstyle.......but hey it appears I am on the fast track to become chapter master. Suck it Agemman!

Samus666 wrote:The top ten

1. prices

Sorta inevitable, but Damn!

2. codex chaos 4th edition

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3. uneven, slow and irregular release schedule

That we get awesome miniatures with crap rules is NOT compensation. (Chaos spawn and possessed CSM's)

4. blatant and manipulative sales techniques

3rd edition nerfing of characters bs!!!

5. white dwarf

I want the cardboard sections in the middle back!!!

6. codex blood angels 4th edition

At least the made a token effort there, more than Dark Eldar, Dark Angels, Necrons and Lost and the Damned got.

7. 5th edition rules that nerfed eldar

I have to disagree there, I get my Orks and Plague Marines slaughtered by Eldar on a regular basis.

8. making their sales assistents so pushy

Don't know about that, my FLGS staff is extremely cool

9. making everything so bloody imperial-centric

That's a natural progression

10. taking away bitz ordering

So I had no hand fething build fifteen fething Ork fething power fething claws

I could go on, but you really don't want me to lol

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11. Telling me that classic Harlequins would not be removed from the classic and collectors range, three weeks before they were

12: Getting rid of the Citadel Journal, fething over Armorcast, ceasing publications of Inferno, their comic book and the letters section in white dwarf. If they were an animal, I would put them out of their misery so they would stop spreading their disease through my world. I'll stop now, since I've run out of steam.