hey there. I'm going to go out on a limb and try and predict the winner for this year.

Its going to be regular marines run by my friend John Blake.

Anyone else want to make a prediction on what army and/or person will take it? (can also be read... Friendly TRASHTALK!)

Dark Eldar for the win! No one will se it coming! It will be AMAZING!!!!!

after game 1

My friends have
John - Massacred with 2 bonus points (marines)
Adam -draw (double lash)
Brad - minor win! (Marines)

Looks like my prediction is coming true

Could it be that a well balanced list with a good general is going to win this year?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
update: Game 2 is over, Bill Kim lost to John, minor victory with all battle point Mods for John

I foresee a heavy load of drama and accusations when everything is in.

BrookM wrote:I foresee a heavy load of drama and accusations when everything is in.

It wouldn't be as entertaining as last year if there wasn't!

but!

Let's leave last year at last year


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sadly... John only took 3rd...

IG guard with vets in valks took 1 and 2 :(

What are/were the various prizes for 'ard boyz?

I heard something about 2500pt armies and such.

hopefully IG at the top 3...

OOPS!!!! I just read it, IG at 1 AND 2!!!! Yahoo!!!! Hope that silences the naysayers that the new IG dex is not top tier!!!!

Mech eldar took second place. Space Marines took third place. IG as stated took first place.

Congrats Nick Rose of the BOLS crew.

So I second the question; what were the prizes? Were they throwing swag around like they did the first year? Did Stompas rain from the sky? Come on those of you who went! Tell us of the glorious swag!

PS Oh, and congrats to the winners. Especially Guard taking first. Great stuff!

Frie d of mine who went didn't get a y free stuff. No idea what the prizes were otherwise.

Come on. I need the Ard Boyz updates. Sleep is for the weak. Some of us are stuck out in Iraq and need the Ard Boyz drama for a good read.

IG
Mech Eldar
Space Marines

Interesting top 3 finishes. I'll definitely be looking forward to these reports.

According to those BoLS fellas orks were at all of the last thrre tables and lost each game. Ouch!

I read that too. But, I don't want to go into the Orks not top tier debate again.

But, they did it despite the more restrictive Deff Rolla ruling. That is, IMO, an interesting developement.

I will be very interested to see if the IG was pure IG or a fusion of IG/WH/DH.

BrookM wrote:Location: Hilversum, the Netherlands

I forsee you adding to your post count however possible.


Dont forget people this is 2500. The game is totally different and only noobs are going to say IG and Eldar are compatitive at GT level because they came in first and second at a 2500 pt tourney.

The top finishing IG list had 2 Hydras, 2 enclosed Medusas and a Manticore in the heavy slots. Lots of Chimeras and some hound varients (not sure which ones). I don't know the details of the list.

The last mission was corner deployment with only two objectives in each deployment zone. You needed to take both to win. The Ork players were most likely hurt with the long walk from a corner deployment and the fact they needed to stack up in their deployment zone to begin the game (unless they came on in reserves which I don't think to many people did).

I hate spearhead deployment! Just saying that that deployment has cost me more games that anything else.

top finishing marine 3rd place... not that bad if you ask me!

Looks like John and Bill Kim took each other out of the runnings for 1st place

DarthDiggler wrote:The top finishing IG list had 2 Hydras, 2 enclosed Medusas and a Manticore in the heavy slots. Lots of Chimeras and some hound varients (not sure which ones). I don't know the details of the list.

The last mission was corner deployment with only two objectives in each deployment zone. You needed to take both to win. The Ork players were most likely hurt with the long walk from a corner deployment and the fact they needed to stack up in their deployment zone to begin the game (unless they came on in reserves which I don't think to many people did).

AHA 2 of my favorite units..hydras and manticores!!!! And he did an armor 12 spam list...very efficient....

Ahahah no orks. :p


Also
Did someone really say that IG and eldar aren't competitive?

You must have missed the part about the orks being at the top tables but not winning the 3rd game Timmah. And that with the non-powerful version of the defrolla so take from that what you will.

one of them playing Ghazzies hored (dude from SC) who was a good player got tabled by the marines

They are still very good, but have some weaknesses

Did they have like the top 10 standings or anything like that anywhere? Or do we just know the top 3.

My friend who went (placed 9th with Ultramarines, no special characters) said that the prizes were lame. 1st place got $300, 2nd got $200 and 3rd got $100.

Your friend is a complete tard to sniff at $300.

The Dreadnote wrote:Your friend is a complete tard to sniff at $300.

Well considering that the first round prizes were probalby worth more than that...

The Dreadnote wrote:Your friend is a complete tard to sniff at $300.

Unless GW covered travel, lodging and food expenses, 300 dollars in some cases might not even have paid for the weekend.

Surely not 300 in cash? Maybe 300 in free stuff. But that seems perposterously low. I was at the previous two finals and the prizes were in the thousands of dollars worth of stuff. If that is true, it is one heck of a dissapointing drop. That being said, of course I will still play in them. Free stuff is free stuff after all.

the prize was getting there : )

No drama? Thats even more disappointing in the prizes. As others have said you need to calculate the cost to ATTEND the tournament vs the prize

Especially if youre coming from a place without a national airport. Grats to the winners.. Eldar is easily top tier in a smart players hands

But GW's weak prize support was the reason I decided not to attend since 'ard boyz has always been about prizes due to how poorly the tournament has been run in the past

The format and time limit isnt conducive to competitive play so from stand point its purely based on money gained vs money spent

Who travels to a miniatures game tournament to break even or even profit?

You're spending money to go and spending money to play. People know that
going in. Expecting more is a bit silly.

malfred wrote:Who travels to a miniatures game tournament to break even or even profit?

You're spending money to go and spending money to play. People know that
going in. Expecting more is a bit silly.

Typically, the whole point of entering a tournament is to walk away with more than you came in with.

Poker, bowling, golf, swimming, paintball, hockey, spelling bees, the list goes on...

It's hardly "silly" to expect the same thing from a Warhammer tournament, especially considering that in rounds 1 and 2, people walked away with much, much more than they entered with.

You also need to consider that GW TOTALLY ruined 1st and 2nd year finals, atleast you had big prizes

Maybe GW are just clueless...I mean to them the first and second round prizes would be practically worthless, since the models don't cost them nearly as much as they cost us.

That could be the problem, GW just doesn't realize exactly how expensive their hobby has gotten, maybe to them $300 is still enough to start at least two or three armies with?

Bunker wrote:

malfred wrote:Who travels to a miniatures game tournament to break even or even profit?

You're spending money to go and spending money to play. People know that
going in. Expecting more is a bit silly.

Typically, the whole point of entering a tournament is to walk away with more than you came in with.

Poker, bowling, golf, swimming, paintball, hockey, spelling bees, the list goes on...

It's hardly "silly" to expect the same thing from a Warhammer tournament, especially considering that in rounds 1 and 2, people walked away with much, much more than they entered with.

I'm thinking we should have a separate discussion about whether or not 40k or
any of these types of games warrant prizes of that caliber.

What did the top 3 lists look like? I heard the Eldar list was mech.

A few Miniatures games where pretty profitable to play with good prizes including Heroclix, Dreamblade, WoW minis.

I play warhammer for the hobby aspect of it as well as the game though creating my own characters and army, writing stories about them etc. Tournaments is just one part of it.

what happened to all the chaos armies?

I found it annoying that GW decided to announce that they were giving buckets of prizes away, but in the end 1 semifinals winner got more then all 3 finalist together. I think it would have been better if GW would have declared upfront what the finals prizes would be. As it is, I can't see myself flying from Oregon to Chicago, pay for a hotel just to win a measly $300 in prize support. Hell my FLGS could support prizes like that. I will just try to take the semi's next year instead.

Everyone Will want to find something to complain about.

It was a fun event and a lot of people had a blast.

As someone already said it was about going up there and playing some of the best.


Prizes were second and be honest I don't know what I would do with a online voucher anyways or a 2500 point army to begin with...

I know what I would do with a 2500 point army.

'Ardboyz was a blast.

Those of you looking for the Drama....I think the most dramatic thing that happened was a table collapsing during the second round. I didn't get to see what happened, I was in another room, but EVERYONE in that place had his heart skip a beat when we heard the unmistakable sound of time, effort and money being shattered.

I am really glad I made the trip up there(13 hour drive) and would do so again, although I must say I was surprised at the prizes as they were announced. I had assumed that based on the escalation of prizes from first round to semi's, and the statement of "buckets" of prizes....not to mention talking to some of those that have been there before, that there was going to be something 'Ridiculous' for first. But, since I didn't win anything, (and knew I wasn't pretty much after the first turn of my first game) I wasn't effected, and can easily look at it from the point of view of..."Hey, it was a free tournament, and there were prizes....Awsome!!"

Anyway, it was great to be able to play and talk to dakka members from across the country, and hopefully see you guys in Nov. for the Fantasy fight!!

JediRaptor wrote:'Ardboyz was a blast.

Those of you looking for the Drama....I think the most dramatic thing that happened was a table collapsing during the second round. I didn't get to see what happened, I was in another room, but EVERYONE in that place had his heart skip a beat when we heard the unmistakable sound of time, effort and money being shattered.!

It was funny, for my final battle I had to play on that table. (fortunately my opponent and I were aware of it and really carefull.) I did enjoy myself at the game, but was just shocked at the prizes. Like a few other people, since I didn't win anything than it really didn't matter.

I glad to read there were no real issues at the finals. While it can make for some entertaining reading, it's not good for that style tourney.

I'm still up in the air about the prize support. After participating in round 2 this year and playing against so much shenanigans, I swore I'd never participate in the Ard Boyz again. I think some of the shenanigans was in part caused by the higher than normal level of prize support. I may be off, but less prize support may make for better games and less folks being tempted too, well, cheat.

I never thought of it like that before. But if that were the case then why wait until the final round to give out crap prizes, the last two rounds had great prize support. Just because the final round was when all the drama happened last year?

Aren't the big prizes normally supposed to be a warm fuzzy feeling because you played some great games with fun people from across the country / state and a funny trophy or plaque?

I wouldn't call the 'Ard Boyz tournament "fun", lol...the kind of people you're likely to run into there, I'd have to have some other incentive to even think of going.

But that's just me...

So the name honours the setting?

Darkwynn wrote:Everyone Will want to find something to complain about.

It was a fun event and a lot of people had a blast.

As someone already said it was about going up there and playing some of the best.


Prizes were second and be honest I don't know what I would do with a online voucher anyways or a 2500 point army to begin with...

Congratulations on the win Darkwynn! What was your list and how did your games go!!!

GO GUARD!!!

I second the call for a report. What was your list, what lists did you see, battlereports, athmosphere... Gieb info!

Grats Darkwynn on a great result.

Cilithan

If you need big prizes to get yourself to a tourney then don't come. You are most likely the type of person who would bend the rules to win or flip out when things don't go your way. The point of the tourney is to pit your skill against the best and see where you stack up. People who didn't come because they didn't feel the prize wouldn't be what they want are either cowards who are afraid to lose the big fish in the small pond feeling and are hiding behind the prize thing or someone who wold have created a stink when they lost because their sole reason for being there was to win swag and they failed at that.

Seriously if your only reason to play is to win prizes, then what happens when you don't? Do you consider your tourney experience a failure and regret going? Isn't the chance to see how good you are against a National field and not a local one the true calling of these tournaments? Besides everyone knows the 2nd round prize is the best. You can get a lot more attendees to the lower round if they know there are 30 prizes like that instead of only 1.

Ard Boyz was great fun, even if I did have my worst tournament performance in years.

Got to play 3 games against some challenging opponents and armies, and even got to cap off the day by playing Mannahnin in Round 3.

I do wish that the Finals were 4 rounds instead of 3, but aside from that, it was a great time and the drama was notably absent from previous years.

Sidstyler wrote:I wouldn't call the 'Ard Boyz tournament "fun", lol...the kind of people you're likely to run into there, I'd have to have some other incentive to even think of going.

But that's just me...

I was actually fairly surprised at how sporting people were. Everyone I ran into was there to have a good time and the whole thing had a really good vibe. Just because these people are good doesn't mean that they're jerks.

I am decently happy with my 19th place finish out of 64. Top third of the top ninety-something players isn't bad at all. I blame running into the one list that I am screwed against twice, which is meganobz in battlewagons. I had a bunch of nob bikers and lootas backed by shoota boyz and 30 meganobz + ghaz makes me a very sad panda, took a major loss there. Managed a minor win against 15 meganobz in wagons backed by 150 boyz tho. I think I could have taken many of the other top lists, including the ones that wiped the floor with the opponent who beat me. Just bad luck :/

Had a good time though, was glad I went. I knew there would be some luck involved in who I faced and that turned out to be no good for me. I was really not impressed with the prize support though. Having worse prizes than at semis was a letdown. The winner of the semis got about 800$ worth of stuff, 2nd got 100$, and 3rd got 70$, for a total of $970. Finals prizes totaled to only 600$. Lame.

Sidstyler wrote:I wouldn't call the 'Ard Boyz tournament "fun", lol...the kind of people you're likely to run into there, I'd have to have some other incentive to even think of going.

But that's just me...

How would you know you dont travel to tournies, you are just a dakka armchair drama general like BrookM.

It amazes me how people who have never even been to an RTT become so knowledgeable on how supposedly toolish the average tourney goer is.

I do tons of tournaments a year and I dont really consider the 'ard boyz fun either :p It can be a lot of stress depending on your venue (Bad judges can kill a high prize tourny) or bad opponents (they emerge like zombies for the 'ard boyz prizes.. usually ostracized from RTTs)

Granted I shouldnt complain having gotten 1st in semis two years in a row.. Im lazy and didnt wanna go to chicago I suppose, I rather travel only for Cons with more to do than play 3 tournament games

Main reason tho was GWs track record.. If they get their act together I would go to more of their events

Culler wrote:

I was actually fairly surprised at how sporting people were. Everyone I ran into was there to have a good time and the whole thing had a really good vibe. Just because these people are good doesn't mean that they're jerks.

What??? preposterous!!

If you play to win, you must be a jerk.



Also, I love all the people that don't go to tournaments because of the perceived crowd, yet have never been to one.
Preconceived perceptions are fun.

JediRaptor wrote:
Those of you looking for the Drama....I think the most dramatic thing that happened was a table collapsing during the second round. I didn't get to see what happened, I was in another room, but EVERYONE in that place had his heart skip a beat when we heard the unmistakable sound of time, effort and money being shattered.

My heart skipped more than a beat but mine was one of the armies on the floor after the table collapsed. I have to give the bunker and GW trade sales kudos they were great. They handled the situation great and even gave the two of us a little to help out in the rebuilding process.

Man that sucks.. I hope you were playing one of the plastic armies and not one of the mostly multipart metal ones

I want to read battle reports!

Despite my dice giving up after round 1, I had a great time! My 2nd round game was one of the closest ones in my warhammer career (what would expect on table 1 at the 'Ard Boyz finals?) Of course when that table fell I nearly wet myself, the sound of that many models hitting the floor just send shivers up my spine....

And if you really want some drama here you go:

DARTH DIGGLER totally cheated me in round 3!!! He was using the loaded Dicess!! How else was he blowing up my Raiders with lascannons?? Explain that, you CAN'T, can you?!?!?!?!

Did he use Chessex dice?

Woah wait, a table fell or tipped over? Damn shame, how did that happen? Did the poor victims go away with some reimbursement or the such?

Glad there was no drama this year. I hate that my BnBB brothers didn't place. Sucks about the prizes though, Iwouldn't consider "bucketloads of prizes" to be less than the previous rounds 1st place winnings.

"Congratulations, you are the best player in North America...here's $300"

PanamaG wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:I wouldn't call the 'Ard Boyz tournament "fun", lol...the kind of people you're likely to run into there, I'd have to have some other incentive to even think of going.

But that's just me...

How would you know you dont travel to tournies, you are just a dakka armchair drama general like BrookM.

It amazes me how people who have never even been to an RTT become so knowledgeable on how supposedly toolish the average tourney goer is.

Wait aren't we all armchair generals here. This is toy soldiers after all. OK, no. My FLGS doesn't have armchairs, but the stools are nice and swivel in a most cool fashion.

Modquisition on: Everyone lets remember Rule #1: Be polite, and take it down a notch on the intensity scale a bit lest this have to get more official.

Kirasu wrote:No drama? ...As others have said you need to calculate the cost to ATTEND the tournament vs the prize]

No you don't, playing in torunaments isn't a job. Some of us play for love of the game.

The hard boy didn't even have entry fees! Stores and GW ran it for the fun of the fan base and love of the game!

Calculate travel costs?

$600 in prizes and AWESOME trophies wasn't enough for some people?

You have to be kidding to post these kinds of things, these posts denigrate the noble efforts of all the people who ran Ard Boy.

I was there, all 3 rounds, it was a great free ride the whole way! Thanks to anyone who had a hand in running it I salute you!

If you want to post drivel saying the prizes were inadequate or expense issues etc.

Don't.

You do realize the 'ard boyz is a ploy by the sales team to generate revenue by upping the point limit to 2500? :p

Most TO's DO NOT run tournaments to make a profit.. If GWs motives are to make a profit off the tournament (Same point this year yet lower prizes).. Then why should the players motive be different?

I can attend much better events at the indy cons if I want to go for the experience

Its a tournament coined to be devoid of sportsmanship (Im not saying the players are bad sports, just GW doesnt care much), no comp, no painting.. Whats left? just models

Like I said, 'ard boyz is all about the sales team creating profit. Thats ALL it is :p

You realize travel costs for a lot of people was probably over 300 dollars. I am guessing most of the people who traveled long distances did so for the chance at prizes.

I don't know too many people who will travel 2000 miles just to play 3 games of 40k.

Kirasu wrote:Man that sucks.. I hope you were playing one of the plastic armies and not one of the mostly multipart metal ones

I was playing deamons so I had mix of plastic a multipart metal models. From what I have gone through at this point the bloodcrushersand the soulgrinders took the blunt of the damage with fateweaver and my forgeworld khorne DP taking the next most damage.

BrookM wrote:
Woah wait, a table fell or tipped over? Damn shame, how did that happen? Did the poor victims go away with some reimbursement or the such?

The table was nudged, on accident, such that one of the corners was pushed inside of the support brace causing the table to fall.

Yes the Chicago Battle Bunker hooked each of us with a Guard Super Heavy Tank and trade sales is going to get us an online voucher. The GW staff handled it very well.

Wow 300 dollars first prize that under whelming glad I didn't win 2nd round I would have been tempted to go. Sure I play for the game but if I am gonna spend 500-600 to go to the tourney I'd like a chance to make some profit what happened to mountains of loot and 2500 point armies all around. Skipping out on prize support doesn't save them money infact it makes them money cuz then more people wanna join.

But on the other note GO GUARD!!!!! WOOOOOO I love that we won. I have been unlucky with my guard in touneys lol usually I lose or tie the last round and it costs me the tourney good on ya dude keep it up repin all us guard players.

Timmah wrote:You realize travel costs for a lot of people was probably over 300 dollars. I am guessing most of the people who traveled long distances did so for the chance at prizes.

I don't know too many people who will travel 2000 miles just to play 3 games of 40k.

Hi, I'm Augustus, pleased to meet you!

EDIT ( I was 10th, but I didn't win anything at finals, I gave my 1st round prize away to my (IMO) best opponent after the round 1 qualifiers as a thank you, the host store gave it away.)

Thats why I said "Most".

I think that all of this can be solved if GW just declared up front what all the prizes would be.

I don't think it's unfair or denigrating to point out that the prize support for the finals was far less than in previous years, and in fact less than that of the semi-finals, when it was strongly implied, if not promised, that there would be a higher level of prize support. Didn't first prize last year win a full Dkok army?

People travel to tournaments all the time, they also usually tend to be multi-day tournaments that feature fully painted armies, awards for paint/best army/sports/etc, and in tend to not feature the "if you bring army X, Y, or Z to this mission you will lose" missions that hard boys is known for.

It's not the value of the prizes that I think bugs people, it's that they were lower than they expected.

Polonius you write so well, but I think that compromise in logic, saying "it's ok to complain about less prize support" just creates a finger hold for people to complain about free, and is the wrong position to take.

It boils down to: the prizes weren't good enough for the free tournament.

That attitude shouldn't get supported, it should get shouted down.

Indeed... The prizes were considerably better than at the Games Day tournaments last year, which cost $50 to enter, and had no prize support at all.

I'd also like to throw congrats out the AMAZING custom trophies that were made this year, (as hardboy final round prizes) an Ork Chainsword, an awesome Shoota and a Slugga too, totally first class unique awesomeness!

Had I won one of those, I would treasure it always, perhaps someone has images, sadly I do not.

Whoever made those 1:1 scale unique trophy props, good job!

Well made props are always great prizes. I think they gave away a bolter, chain sword and something else at the Frenzy last year IRC.

hmmmm, You know what, I took a bunch of pictures, but it appears I never did get one of the Weapons...for shame me....for shame.


I would have to agree with Augustus on the Tourney/Prizes/Travel issue. As I think I stated, I drove 13 hours to get to the Tourney, and at no point did I feel that it wouldn't be worth it if I didn't go home with a prize. I was happy to play a game I enjoy, with people who are damn good.
I'm pleased that I went 2-1, and it is a testament to the level of players that even that record placed 27th.

Will I make the trip again, (wife, kids, job allowing) even if there is nothing for a prize other than satisfaction. Yes.


(Note this doesn't mean all prizes should be henceforth eliminated....I think I might have a 10 year run as champ if I am the only one to show up!!)

How about the guy from the UK I played in the Baltimore GT, or the guy I played in the GT from Hawaii (Baltimore again). These were in middle tables, and the prizes are 'small' at the GW GTs. They spent a lot of money to play 5 games of 40k.

For most attendees, its the experience.

Timmah wrote:You realize travel costs for a lot of people was probably over 300 dollars. I am guessing most of the people who traveled long distances did so for the chance at prizes.

I don't know too many people who will travel 2000 miles just to play 3 games of 40k.

I am severely disappointed in the lack of drama. I heard that the table the fell over was actually knocked over in a fit of rage and violence when some dude's Land Raider got immobilized.

Cruentus wrote:How about the guy from the UK I played in the Baltimore GT, or the guy I played in the GT from Hawaii (Baltimore again). These were in middle tables, and the prizes are 'small' at the GW GTs. They spent a lot of money to play 5 games of 40k.

For most attendees, its the experience.

I met someone at a tournament once who was a huge jerk. Everyone that goes to them must be a jerk!!!


Circumstantial evidence does not prove me wrong. How do you know these guys weren't in the states for other reasons and just happened to attend said GT?

Seriously, if TO's could get away without giving out prizes, then why would they? Wouldn't they sink the money into the event to make it better. Oh yea, cause they would get a lot less people to come if they did.

I heard the guy who won the chainsword promptly tried it out on bystanders, which ended up causing a giant room wide Waaaaaaagh and dozens of casualties.

Aduro wrote:I heard the guy who won the chainsword promptly tried it out on bystanders, which ended up causing a giant room wide Waaaaaaagh and dozens of casualties.

heh heh heh.....its a good thing I'm Da Biggest!!

I heard when the table dropped it attracted the attention of a nearby Warmachine tournament. The chainsword had to be used to repel dozens of screaming angry, dorito stained gamers throwing dice in a surpressing fire manner and shouting "play like you've got a pair!" Luckily some epic players were nearby reminiscing about how everything was so much better in 2nd edition, and they promptly repelled the Warmachine boarders with vortex templates and massed volleys of mission cards.

There is no truth to the rumor that, in the midst of the hullabaloo, some chaos players secretly caught and sacrificed some Black Reach newbs to Chansus, the 5th Chaos God of Dice Rolling, to improve their scores in the final round...

Augustus wrote:Polonius you write so well, but I think that compromise in logic, saying "it's ok to complain about less prize support" just creates a finger hold for people to complain about free, and is the wrong position to take.

It boils down to: the prizes weren't good enough for the free tournament.

That attitude shouldn't get supported, it should get shouted down.

Not to derail this, but it's not a compromise in logic to say that when expectations aren't met, people have a certain right to feel disappointed and even share that feeling. This wasn't a kid getting hand knit sweater from Nana instead of a video game; it was a dramatic shift in prize support for the last large tournament GW supports in any way.

I also reject the idea that the tournament was free. It was a competitive invite, virtually everybody incurred travel expenses, and to simply state that because it didn't have an entry fee it should be immune from criticism as to prize support ignores the fact that free events aren't put on, generally, as freely given gifts. There is a reason and an expected return.

I know it was just an end of post zinger, but the idea that opinions you don't like should simply be shouted down might not be the most noble of sentiments.

Polonius wrote:

Augustus wrote:Polonius you write so well, but I think that compromise in logic, saying "it's ok to complain about less prize support" just creates a finger hold for people to complain about free, and is the wrong position to take.

It boils down to: the prizes weren't good enough for the free tournament.

That attitude shouldn't get supported, it should get shouted down.

Not to derail this, but it's not a compromise in logic to say that when expectations aren't met, people have a certain right to feel disappointed and even share that feeling. This wasn't a kid getting hand knit sweater from Nana instead of a video game; it was a dramatic shift in prize support for the last large tournament GW supports in any way.

I also reject the idea that the tournament was free. It was a competitive invite, virtually everybody incurred travel expenses, and to simply state that because it didn't have an entry fee it should be immune from criticism as to prize support ignores the fact that free events aren't put on, generally, as freely given gifts. There is a reason and an expected return.

I know it was just an end of post zinger, but the idea that opinions you don't like should simply be shouted down might not be the most noble of sentiments.

NO, YOU!

You know, a full third of the people there had already won full 2500 point armies, by virtue of winning their semi-final - another tournament in the same series, and another without an entry fee.

You don't go to 'ard boyz round three to win amazing amounts of free product, that's ridiculous. The first prize was $300 from the store - that's not peanuts. Third place was $100. These prizes are on-par with the prizes offered at a GT, without the $100 entry fee (and with similar travel requirements).

You go to 'ard boyz for bragging rights. To say 'I'm the best'. To claim that you pay travel fees to go to a tournament because you expect to break even is about the dumbest thing I've heard. You go because you want to win against the best competition and prove that you're the top dog. That 1st place chainsword is worth more than any prize support...

Frazzled wrote:I heard when the table dropped it attracted the attention of a nearby Warmachine tournament. The chainsword had to be used to repel dozens of screaming angry, dorito stained gamers throwing dice in a surpressing fire manner and shouting "play like you've got a pair!" Luckily some epic players were nearby reminiscing about how everything was so much better in 2nd edition, and they promptly repelled the Warmachine boarders with vortex templates and massed volleys of mission cards.

There is no truth to the rumor that, in the midst of the hullabaloo, some chaos players secretly caught and sacrificed some Black Reach newbs to Chansus, the 5th Chaos God of Dice Rolling, to improve their scores in the final round...

I am now considering making a Chaos army...Shoulder pads white with black dots....I can see it now!

Redbeard wrote:You know, a full third of the people there had already won full 2500 point armies, by virtue of winning their semi-final - another tournament in the same series, and another without an entry fee.

You don't go to 'ard boyz round three to win amazing amounts of free product, that's ridiculous. The first prize was $300 from the store - that's not peanuts. Third place was $100. These prizes are on-par with the prizes offered at a GT, without the $100 entry fee (and with similar travel requirements).

You go to 'ard boyz for bragging rights. To say 'I'm the best'. To claim that you pay travel fees to go to a tournament because you expect to break even is about the dumbest thing I've heard. You go because you want to win against the best competition and prove that you're the top dog. That 1st place chainsword is worth more than any prize support...

And thats exactly the PROBLEM with how GW runs it. It has no legitimacy on who is the best due to lack of time to finish games. If you cannot finish games till the end then the entire game shouldnt even count. Last year was absolute shenanigans with the reduction in time for the final round and uh... the demon debacle. First year had horrible missions and it was 4th edition

By using only 3 rounds you come come up with 10 people who are undefeated.. How the heck can you prove ANYTHING with that kind of result? 1 more bonus point != you are better.. it means your D6 was a 6 one more time than theirs

It may be billed as a BEST OF THE BEST but its created by the SALES team to sell more product. That is why its 2500 pts, that is why it has no painting requirement and presumably bean counters told them that prize support should be lower in round 3 because people already spent enough money on the round 2 army to win the semi final prize

Dont get me wrong, I enjoy 'ard boyz just not the finals :p But thats still a result of me not wanting to travel.. Just lets not give credit where credit isnt due

I'm not arguing the actual merits of the prize support. I'm merely stating that given the past, I don't think attendees are totally out of line being a little disappointed with it. It's hard to deny that it's lower than previous years, and few if any hierarchical events have smaller prizes at nationals than they do at regionals.

Of course few people attend these for the prizes, any more than they attend because of the closest restaurant. That doesn't mean you can't complain a little if they overcooked your steak.

Redbeard wrote:You know, a full third of the people there had already won full 2500 point armies, by virtue of winning their semi-final - another tournament in the same series, and another without an entry fee.

You don't go to 'ard boyz round three to win amazing amounts of free product, that's ridiculous. The first prize was $300 from the store - that's not peanuts. Third place was $100. These prizes are on-par with the prizes offered at a GT, without the $100 entry fee (and with similar travel requirements).

You go to 'ard boyz for bragging rights. To say 'I'm the best'. To claim that you pay travel fees to go to a tournament because you expect to break even is about the dumbest thing I've heard. You go because you want to win against the best competition and prove that you're the top dog. That 1st place chainsword is worth more than any prize support...

I was there. I went 2-0-1 and finished 5th. I agree with Redbeard about prize support, it was fine and the custom weapons were very cool (and heavy).

I dont know about most of you guys but winning 1st place in ard boyz and having bragging rights for a year is a damn good prize in my eyes.

Polonius wrote:I'm not arguing the actual merits of the prize support. I'm merely stating that given the past, I don't think attendees are totally out of line being a little disappointed with it. It's hard to deny that it's lower than previous years, and few if any hierarchical events have smaller prizes at nationals than they do at regionals.

I'm not saying claiming hierarchical events that have smaller prizes at nationals than they do at regionals, is not a legitimate odity, or that having smaller prizes than last year is an odity. I am saying that claiming:

... prizes should be commensurate with travel costs
... prizes should be bigger at free tournaments (in any context)
... people should be able to break even in "value" for prizes and effort for playing a game
... tournaments aren't "free" because one has to pay travel costs for the finals
... players should get rewarded for playing a past time game voluntarily

are all belligerent and foolish arguments.

Kirasu wrote:...It has no legitimacy on who is the best due to lack of time to finish games. If you cannot finish games till the end then the entire game shouldnt even count. Last year was absolute shenanigans with the reduction in time for the final round and uh... the demon debacle. First year had horrible missions and it was 4th edition

By using only 3 rounds you come come up with 10 people who are undefeated.. How the heck can you prove ANYTHING with that kind of result? 1 more bonus point != you are better.. it means your D6 was a 6 one more time than theirs

Sour grapes? I suspect there may be 63 other people who disagree this year, they addressed slow play at the event, there were no demonic shenanigans and the missions were nearly strait out of the book.

thehod wrote:I dont know about most of you guys but winning 1st place in ard boyz and having bragging rights for a year is a damn good prize in my eyes.

Indeed!

OT

I am very surprised the IG codex took the whole shebang, and Eldar in 2nd, outstanding! I would never have predicted that! I thought Orks and Demons for sure!

Augustus wrote:

Polonius wrote:I'm not arguing the actual merits of the prize support. I'm merely stating that given the past, I don't think attendees are totally out of line being a little disappointed with it. It's hard to deny that it's lower than previous years, and few if any hierarchical events have smaller prizes at nationals than they do at regionals.

I'm not saying claiming hierarchical events that have smaller prizes at nationals than they do at regionals, is not a legitimate odity, or that having smaller prizes than last year is an odity. I am saying that claiming:

... prizes should be commensurate with travel costs
... prizes should be bigger at free tournaments (in any context)
... people should be able to break even in "value" for prizes and effort for playing a game
... tournaments aren't "free" because on has to pay travel costs for the finals
... players should get rewarded for playing a past time game voluntarily

are all belligerent and foolish arguments.

Which is why nobody made those arguments. It was said by one poster that their friend said that the prizes were lame, another poster helpfully suggested that the friend is a "complete tard" for saying that, and only then was it raised that there were some serious costs involved in competing, and that the first place prize wouldn't even cover them.

Honestly, you seem very passionate about this, which is a little odd. I think that people are raising some very true and viable comments, and you seem to be reacting as if they were speaking the most foul of slanders.

Also, calling arguments that veer between strawmen you yourself created and quite true statments "belligerent and foolish" is, oddly enough, inflammatory and incorrect enough to be slotted as both belligerent and foolish.

I don't quite know why this has so offended you.

...and you seem determined to defend the dissatisfied camp and derail the post as well.

Augustus wrote:...and you seem determined to defend the dissatisfied camp and derail the post as well.

Yes, for two reasons.

First, I'm not wild about posts, like yours, that seek to eliminate a conversation or a side of a conversation for no reason other than some vague appeal to morality. If somebody is incorrect, explain why. Simply saying "it's wrong" is like asking if somebody would think of the children...

Second, while there is more complaining online than in any other medium, it's also easier to ignore than in any other context. People that complain or castigate complainers are not only in themselves acting in the way they are judging improper, they are doing so in a much more personal and offensive way. When Poster A says "I don't like X", he's stating an opinion about a product or service. When Poster B says "I dont' like when Poster A complains," he's criticizing the actions of a peer.

So, while maybe it would have been wiser to let this matter drop, I decided to explain my views on the matter.

Kirasu wrote:...It has no legitimacy on who is the best due to lack of time to finish games. If you cannot finish games till the end then the entire game shouldnt even count. Last year was absolute shenanigans with the reduction in time for the final round and uh... the demon debacle. First year had horrible missions and it was 4th edition

By using only 3 rounds you come come up with 10 people who are undefeated.. How the heck can you prove ANYTHING with that kind of result? 1 more bonus point != you are better.. it means your D6 was a 6 one more time than theirs

Sour grapes? I suspect there may be 63 other people who disagree this year, they addressed slow play at the event, there were no demonic shenanigans and the missions were nearly strait out of the book.

If I had the gift of knowing the future than sure I would have attended.. Point is GW wrecked the last 2 years from a competative standpoint and while SOME people got tons of prizes it was NOT due to their overall generalship being above others.. It was more like rolling a dice with how GW ran the tournaments. Human decisions are based on precendence

Im glad the tournament went smoothly! More reason to show up next year.

About sour grapes comment.. yeah 'ard boyz has given me over 2 grand in free models.. The first and second rounds are fairly good!

What happened this year doesnt eliminate the problems of the other years and thats all we had to go on when making decisions

Interesting that Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh! Tourneys at the national and world level compensate for travel, sometimes even prior to prize support...

$300 seems a little weak. We can thank John for a good chunk of rules drama not happening. Maybe GW will learn from this.

Wow just wow!

* SUPER FACE PALM *

All people can do is find something to complain about and rail on endlessly. I think that is quite telling about the finals last year as well.

Cruentus wrote:How about the guy from the UK I played in the Baltimore GT, or the guy I played in the GT from Hawaii (Baltimore again). These were in middle tables, and the prizes are 'small' at the GW GTs. They spent a lot of money to play 5 games of 40k.

For most attendees, its the experience.

Timmah wrote:You realize travel costs for a lot of people was probably over 300 dollars. I am guessing most of the people who traveled long distances did so for the chance at prizes.

I don't know too many people who will travel 2000 miles just to play 3 games of 40k.

I can say that Mike Mutscheller and I traveled 3000+ miles for six games and a wooden plaque for a Heat 1 win.

I made my own prize this year. I grabbed 2 minis from everyones carrying cases at the end of the day! I now have seven 350pt armies that don't work!

Hey Augustus I think I played you second round, your mechdar versus my incomplete blood ravens?

I agree with Augustus; for everyone I knew that was going up, the prizes were NOT the reason behind going. (unlike the second round of 'ard boyz!) Would it be nice to win some extra swag? Of course!

But for the finals of 'ard boyz me and my buds went to have some games against some of the best players and hardest lists out there, to learn something new about the game, and play for competetive fun.

For me, when I try and bring power to a local tournie table, either words like 'cheese' start getting slug around or I play a new player who I can easily crush--not fun in either senario. Plus, many TO's are trying to institute a fake 'balance' with comp scores and silly pairings. The end result is that the competetive gamesmanship takes a back seat to the hobby, in a gaming tourney!

I am sure the 'ard boyz format is worth more as a very refreshing change of pace for the game more than it is worth as a free swag machine. Thoughts?

Redbeard wrote:You know, a full third of the people there had already won full 2500 point armies, by virtue of winning their semi-final - another tournament in the same series, and another without an entry fee.

You don't go to 'ard boyz round three to win amazing amounts of free product, that's ridiculous. The first prize was $300 from the store - that's not peanuts. Third place was $100. These prizes are on-par with the prizes offered at a GT, without the $100 entry fee (and with similar travel requirements).

You go to 'ard boyz for bragging rights. To say 'I'm the best'. To claim that you pay travel fees to go to a tournament because you expect to break even is about the dumbest thing I've heard. You go because you want to win against the best competition and prove that you're the top dog. That 1st place chainsword is worth more than any prize support...

Redbeard has hit it right on the nail!

I am glad with the prize support and really in the big scheme of things it doesn't matter.

Besides if you want to argue with me I have a chainsword that I can hit you over the head with....

thehod wrote:I dont know about most of you guys but winning 1st place in ard boyz and having bragging rights for a year is a damn good prize in my eyes.

agreed


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DevianID wrote:Hey Augustus I think I played you second round, your mechdar versus my incomplete blood ravens?

I agree with Augustus; for everyone I knew that was going up, the prizes were NOT the reason behind going. (unlike the second round of 'ard boyz!) Would it be nice to win some extra swag? Of course!

But for the finals of 'ard boyz me and my buds went to have some games against some of the best players and hardest lists out there, to learn something new about the game, and play for competetive fun.

For me, when I try and bring power to a local tournie table, either words like 'cheese' start getting slug around or I play a new player who I can easily crush--not fun in either senario. Plus, many TO's are trying to institute a fake 'balance' with comp scores and silly pairings. The end result is that the competetive gamesmanship takes a back seat to the hobby, in a gaming tourney!

I am sure the 'ard boyz format is worth more as a very refreshing change of pace for the game more than it is worth as a free swag machine. Thoughts?

Said better than I could, you get a bonus point.

gardeth wrote:I made my own prize this year. I grabbed 2 minis from everyones carrying cases at the end of the day! I now have seven 350pt armies that don't work!

Hahahaha

I love this.

DevianID wrote:Hey Augustus I think I played you second round, your mechdar versus my incomplete blood ravens?

You know what, one of the reasons I was looking forward to the Finals, was to put some faces to online persona here on Dakka, and I ended talking to everyone without actually bringing it up, so I'm interested in who is who?

I know my second game was against Inquisitor Malice (Great game that it was), and I met Centurion99, but what about the rest of you guys?

I played the Drop Podding 'Salamanders'

Those that were there, what did you bring? This might help me place some fellow Dakkaites.

I don't think the Inquisitor actually played at 'ard boyz...

Redbeard wrote:I don't think the Inquisitor actually played at 'ard boyz...

lol would be interesting with him judging and playing at the same time if that is the case

Anyone care to post the list they used for the last set of games?

Redbeard wrote:I don't think the Inquisitor actually played at 'ard boyz...

He actually got stuck fielding the 'ringer' army since I think someone dropped after getting blanked round one.

Frazzled wrote:I heard when the table dropped it attracted the attention of a nearby Warmachine tournament. The chainsword had to be used to repel dozens of screaming angry, dorito stained gamers throwing dice in a surpressing fire manner and shouting "play like you've got a pair!" Luckily some epic players were nearby reminiscing about how everything was so much better in 2nd edition, and they promptly repelled the Warmachine boarders with vortex templates and massed volleys of mission cards.

There is no truth to the rumor that, in the midst of the hullabaloo, some chaos players secretly caught and sacrificed some Black Reach newbs to Chansus, the 5th Chaos God of Dice Rolling, to improve their scores in the final round...

I finally get my son to sleep (he is thirteen months) and promptly wake him with laughter after reading this.

Thank you


If I had sigs turned on this would be my new one.

take care

JediRaptor wrote:

Redbeard wrote:I don't think the Inquisitor actually played at 'ard boyz...

He actually got stuck fielding the 'ringer' army since I think someone dropped after getting blanked round one.

Yeah, I didn't play in the events at all this year. I came over to help judge and hang out with the AdeptiCon crew. We were looking for Redbeard to play the ringer, but he disappeared. I had to get GW to pull some models out of their display case and add them to my list 1,500 point list really quick. It was a lot of fun to play against JD. This weekend showed me that taking the summer off can definitely make one a little rusty. Hats off to John, Tom, Dan and the rest of the GW staff for running a smooth event. Also a big tip of the hat to Dave Creswell for being a great judge and whip cracker for the day.

"Whether you kill or get killed, its just a way to kill time."

That is a quote by Kenpachi Zaraki a bleach character and it really works well with 40k. Whenever you play any game including 40k you may destroy or get destroyed by someone but at the end of the day its just a game used to kill time. Some people (including myself once upon a time) think that because its a tournament its something more but its not, its just a way to pass time.

The size of the prize doesnt determine how big a tournament is, it is determined by the individual. To give an example, who do you think want to win a championship more Lebron James or Kobe Byrant? They both want it about the same, but we know that to Lebron it would mean more.


You cant down play the experience of the best of the best because of GW, expenses, or the lack of prizes. Me personally I am jealous, I would have love to compete against the best of the best.

Inquisitor_Malice wrote:
Yeah, I didn't play in the events at all this year. I came over to help judge and hang out with the AdeptiCon crew. We were looking for Redbeard to play the ringer, but he disappeared.

Oddly enough, I went to get lunch at the designated lunch time. I was back in time for round 2, but you were already setting up.

So am I right in assuming it was
1st Guard
2nd Eldar
3rd SM
Because BoLS siad the top six was 3 orks, 2 guard, 1 eldar. How did SM make top 3 if this is the case?

I was really looking forward to playing this year, and was very disappointed when my ability to participate went down the toilet five days before the event. First and foremost, I was excited for the experience of the finals.

That said, the rules packet specifically mentioned that at the finals, "The top three winners will receive absurdly huge piles of loot, cool custom made trophies, and the right to call all others dirty runtherders in light of their prestigious accomplishment!"

Again, any prizes would have been gravy, but given prior years awards and the way that GW themselves advertised the prize support, I can certainly understand why there is some grumbling. While $300 is a pretty nice prize, it ain't "absurdly huge," by any standard.

For those that attended, were there at least patches/shirts/etc given out (similar to those given at the semis)?

Yes we got a patch that said 09 finalists and the colors were inverted from the 09 semi-final patch. I liked the patches a lot.

Did anyone ask about the size of said buckets?

Chosen Praetorian wrote:So am I right in assuming it was
1st Guard
2nd Eldar
3rd SM
Because BoLS siad the top six was 3 orks, 2 guard, 1 eldar. How did SM make top 3 if this is the case?

3rd place was my friend John Blake : ) He was most def 3rd place

My other friends played hard but didn't get that place.

Guess I play with some of the best of the best

I am saying that claiming:

... prizes should be commensurate with travel costs
... prizes should be bigger at free tournaments (in any context)
... people should be able to break even in "value" for prizes and effort for playing a game
... tournaments aren't "free" because one has to pay travel costs for the finals
... players should get rewarded for playing a past time game voluntarily

are all belligerent and foolish arguments.

I agree 100% Augustus

Lets look at travel costs shall we? So, how to TO's know where you came from and how much you spent? did they tell you to come?
If you paid a small fortune to go then you obviously want to win, but i think its more along the lines of bragging rights ........ something you cant buy or put a price on.
everything about tournaments is your choice, if you dont like it, then why go?

I travel to tournaments simply for the fun of it, and im seriously temped to cross the pond for ardboyz next year
for the prize? feth no!, for the sheer fun of it and to see how other people play and how other tournies work out.




also, just want to offer my sympathy to the 2 armies that got screwed over by the table incident.

On a closing note, play for fun or competition rather than expecting huge prizes in return.
Lets face it, you allready have a fully painted army to compete, why the feth do you need a 2nd one for?


i think ill leave that for now

You boys keep working that strawman.

A half dozen or so more posters agree, and all the people that never said those things will continue to not say those things. I think you can do it.

Polonius wrote:You boys keep working that strawman.

A half dozen or so more posters agree, and all the people that never said those things will continue to not say those things. I think you can do it.

Not that it would change the opinions much but there is the cost of the trophies too. A custom 1:1 scale prop is not the cheapest thing out there. Seeing as I made them (tooting own horn mode off)

wynnSTUDIO

wynnstudio wrote:Not that it would change the opinions much but there is the cost of the trophies too. A custom 1:1 scale prop is not the cheapest thing out there. Seeing as I made them (tooting own horn mode off)

wynnSTUDIO

Those were pretty friggin' awesome. I especially loved the Ork chainsword. Very nice work. How much would one of those custom weapons go for, if I may ask?

Frazzled wrote:
There is no truth to the rumor that, in the midst of the hullabaloo, some chaos players secretly caught and sacrificed some Black Reach newbs to Chansus, the 5th Chaos God of Dice Rolling, to improve their scores in the final round...

I think you are confusing dieties -

'When you look back at the beach of life, those times when you see only one set of footprints, at the tough games of your life and turn to look at Nuffle and say unto him 'Why Nuffle, Why abandon me at those times?' Nuffle replies..."I didnt abandon you my child, thats when I was on your back and riding you like a PONY!!!"

Afrikan Blonde wrote:Wow just wow!

* SUPER FACE PALM *

All people can do is find something to complain about and rail on endlessly. I think that is quite telling about the finals last year as well.

I know. They even find ways to endlessly complain about the complaining.

Isn't it terrible?

btw: See what I did there?

I agree....I can't BELIEVE people complain about complaining...just the idea of the complainers makes me mad.

Grumblegrumblegrumble....


btw:I'm with ya howlingmoon

beardy wrote:Anyone care to post the list they used for the last set of games?

Sure I was 10 of 64, I had an Eldar Flying Circus army, its easy to post.

ELdraad
Yriel
Seer Council x8 in Waveserpent Stock with Bright Lances
Firedragons x6 W/ Exarch with flamer in Waveserpent with Brightlances
Dire Avengers x5 in Waverserpent with Brightlances
Dire Avengers x5 in Waverserpent with Brightlances
Dire Avengers x5 in Waverserpent with Brightlances
Dire Avengers x5 in Waverserpent with Brightlances
Dire Avengers x5 in Waverserpent with Missile Launchers
Dire Avengers x5 in Waverserpent with Missile Launchers
Fireprism with Stones
Fireprism with Stones
Fireprism with Stones

I had nearly the same list as the Eldar player who took second, he had "my list" minus Yriel and the seers with 2 more units of firedragons instead. I spoke to him, he was very affable and precise and seemed to know the game very well! Well played, I would not have predicted Eldar in the TOP 3.

I played 3 matches vs marines with Librarains with Null field, and the event was the tough fight I had expected for weeks! I was surprised to not play vs. Demons, Chaos or Orks, as I expected they would be at the top.

Hoozah to all the competitors, and thanks to all the event runners! Special word to whoever took the whole thing with IG, wow, I would never have guessed!

Loved it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarthDiggler wrote:

wynnstudio wrote:Not that it would change the opinions much but there is the cost of the trophies too. A custom 1:1 scale prop is not the cheapest thing out there. Seeing as I made them (tooting own horn mode off)

wynnSTUDIO

Those were friggin amazing. I especially loved the Ork chainsword. Very nice work. How much would one of those custom weapons go for, if I may ask?

*(Pre Apologies for OT on this one, but I had to answer this!)

Those were awesome BTW! Full marks sir well done!

I wouldn't presume to assume the value of someone else's work, or predict how those were made, but I can speak from personal experience a little on this one as I also have made replica weapons before. I made a Titan Steel Deflector from world of Warcraft, and I sold mine at an art auction for $135. The auctioneers thought it went cheap, I spent about 16 hours making and painting it and 75$ in materials.

Here are some images of the thing, I think it's comparable to the props as the prizes, if, a little bit bigger.

It sadden me to here that everyone is bickering about prizes and competion!

Ard' Boyz is for fun. i agree with everyone that said its for pitting yourself against the toughest of us and on top of it all, if you win you are the best!!!!!!!!! I would love to have the honor to say that! prizes are just a bonus to the experience! stop complaining, its just derailed the forum true goal.

DarthDiggler wrote:

wynnstudio wrote:Not that it would change the opinions much but there is the cost of the trophies too. A custom 1:1 scale prop is not the cheapest thing out there. Seeing as I made them (tooting own horn mode off)

wynnSTUDIO

Those were pretty friggin' awesome. I especially loved the Ork chainsword. Very nice work. How much would one of those custom weapons go for, if I may ask?

Found wip images for the prizes here:

http://wynnstudiomodels.blogspot.com/

I played John (3rd place SM player) in the third round (I had the Horde Ork army).

I had a great time-- all my rounds were well-played and enjoyable.

First round was Ork on Ork action, and I tabled the guy (although it was close run until 4th turn). He just couldn't hack through 30 cybork boyz + Mad Dok with the units he got into CC.

Second round was against a drop-pod SM player (cannot recall his name). He brought two thunderfire cannons (!!?) which put a huge damper in my day... pulled out a minor victory given the game ended on turn 5. We played out last few turns for fun, adn he would've gotten a minor had we continued on.

Third round was against John's SM list. The main problem for me was spearhead deployment with deployment zone objectives... that's a LONG walk! His terminators were able to pour fire into my (slowly) advancing horde, and he made good use of superior mobility to lead Grotsnik's squad hither and yon.

Was still an enjoyable game, and it came down to the very last turn-- if it had been random game length and ended on turn 5, would've had a minor victory myself (but, no random game length, and next round he killed the one nob remaining on his objective, and ran off the Kommandos contesting mine).

All in all, I enjoyed playing new faces, and had no problems. Also, got a chance to visit Chicago-- saw some sketch/imrpov at iO and Second City, and had some great food. Would definitely recommend it to anyone who has the opportunity (although driving from SC was pretty lame!)

Glad to read about your experience. I've found of the games I've struggled with the most playing my Orks utelized Spearhead deployment.

How did Mad Dok perform for you? Did you utelize him in every round?

Oh, Dok + 30 Cybork Boyz makes for a great screen-- no need for the KFF when you have a line of 30 boyz screening your force.

Most people also spend an inordinate amount of time shooting the unit- and while they're likely to kill over half the unit before it can reach them, they end up leaving the much softer squads behind it relatively unscathed.

The unit + Dok rarely make their point cost (over 500 for dok and the unit) but they often force play mistakes and screen the rest of your army. I love the Dok+Cyborks combo at anything 1500+

Thanks for the insight. I'd ran a similar version, but with a smaller unit inside a BW. I can see how footslogging them (and w/ Ghaz) could be fun unit.

I would love to see John's marine list. Could someone please post it for us?
thanks in advance,
-Pav

pavonis wrote:I would love to see John's marine list. Could someone please post it for us?
thanks in advance,
-Pav

John doesn't want his marines list posted....

He doesn't want people to accuse him of "Net listing" when he shows up at the next event... (even though he made the list!)

Basically our group of players has put a lot of time getting our lists to tourny quality and he has a Solid list.

That's odd- seems little harm in posting it, but, eh-- his call.

It was a decent list-- very well played.