.......

Comeing January... good news(Iwill probably have gotten some dough for Christmas)... Written by Robbin Crudance... Well, some units need arbitrary change.

Wow...regurgitated version from the previous one...

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:Comeing January... good news(Iwill probably have gotten some dough for Christmas)... Written by Robbin Crudance... Well, some units need arbitrary change.

Yeah,what from i gather Nids might actually play like a CC army now,instead of the typical DakkaFex,SniperFex spam.

Let's hope Gargoyles might be usefull for once.

Taht cover doesnt look as sexy as the space wolves one.. or is it just me?

Maybe its the pic.

Either way can't wait.

Looks good. Now we just need some pictures of the models and we're good to go!

OH YEAH BABY BUGLING THE BUGS ARE BACK!!!



January then... awesome cant wait!!!

Can't wait to get this.

Surprised HMBC hasn't come in to say how crap it is yet though...

Cant fault a guy for calling a Spade a Spade...

He's a pretty predictable guy, isn't he? Waiting for some crack about Robin Cruddace = arby

So, fexes and gaunts and spore mines are confirmed then...

Fingers crossed that a) this isn't a spoof from some bored fanboy with Photoshop, and that b) it will be a really good codex, otherwise I'm going to have to start a 'Nids which count as Space Wolves' army

Yea but Ive yet to see HMBC just go bananas over something 40k lol.

The dex looks cool, and Im glad to hears its suppose to be going back to being about the bugs and not some giant crazy gun fexes. Pretty neat.
Still waiting to see a picture like that but with some DE on it lol

Clang wrote:So, fexes and gaunts and spore mines are confirmed then...

Fingers crossed that a) this isn't a spoof from some bored fanboy with Photoshop, and that b) it will be a really good codex, otherwise I'm going to have to start a 'Nids which count as Space Wolves' army

Dont worry, if power creep keeps up the way it has your looking at the most broken nids dex to date. (This comming from a guy who remembers when they came out and were damn near unstoppable.)

Wow, you'd think people were planning to frame the cover and hang it above the fireplace.

I really can't believe some people are going to NOT buy the new codex over the cover art. Really? I pay $25 for what is INSIDE, not what the damn cover art looks like.

I guess some people will just never be happy.

Clang wrote:

Fingers crossed that a) this isn't a spoof from some bored fanboy with Photoshop

It's the real stuff GW confirmed this at games day.

UltraPrime wrote:Can't wait to get this.

Surprised HMBC hasn't come in to say how crap it is yet though...

Didn't you hear? They're taking out all of the differences between Hive Fleets.

...Oh wait.

KingCracker wrote:
Still waiting to see a picture like that but with some DE on it lol

Gosh,i felt like ranting,GW didn't let any news on DE and the models .

I think it time all you DE players come to grips that GW is going to Squat that dex.

Yea I know they wont. Honestly Im thinking EVERYONE that is on their mailing list, is going to wake up with a box on the front porch that reads " BRAND NEW DARK ELDAR FORCE SET! NOW PAY US MONEY!"

Something along those lines.

Hooray!

Re-hashed codices FTW!

lol... well considering the DE past history, and the fact that they are not comming out for at least another year..

Im leaning towards Squattage

KingCracker wrote:Yea I know they wont. Honestly Im thinking EVERYONE that is on their mailing list, is going to wake up with a box on the front porch that reads " BRAND NEW DARK ELDAR FORCE SET! NOW PAY US MONEY!"

Something along those lines.

The problem is GW could at the very least show us some sneak peaks or projects in the work of the DE models.

A little hope is better then none.

I'm betting DE aren't being squatted. I'm betting this time next year, if not january 2k11.

Based on what?

Id say 2011 at the earliest... if then even.

Fateweaver wrote:I'm betting DE aren't being squatted. I'm betting this time next year, if not january 2k11.

I clucking hope not!

GW needs to get off there high horse for once.

From the info in pod casts GW finished half the range of DE late 2008 and still no news

Based on gut feeling. Maybe I'm not the pessimist concerning GW that 95% of Dakka is.

Call it gut feeling, that is all.

I say they will eventually. DE have a much larger following then the Squats. PEople mostly just like the idea of the Squats because they are cartoony and you cant really get them anymore. Seriously, Squats are lame.
Now if they just dump the DE there is going to be NERDRAGE on epic scales. Im willing to bet, that if they redo the army and the codex and do it well, they will make a boat load of cash

Id say the same amount of "rage" as when other armies were dropped...

LATD,
Harlies,
Squats,
IG AC,

Yet people still play. It isnt the first time its happened and im positive GW will feth up and do it again. Its only a matter of time.......

KingCracker wrote:
Now if they just dump the DE there is going to be NERDRAGE on epic scales. Im willing to bet, that if they redo the army and the codex and do it well, they will make a boat load of cash

I'm loving how this thread is more on DE the Nids

They have the codex finished about a year ago...and still nothing.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

jp400 wrote:Id say the same amount of "rage" as when other armies were dropped...

LATD,
Harlies,
Squats,
IG AC,

Yet people still play. It isnt the first time its happened and im positive GW will feth up and do it again. Its only a matter of time.......

DE are a core army,these on the other hand are not.

And the models!!!!!!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
How were any of those not core armies?

I like the new cover art and am deffinatly looking forward to getting this. Not because I plan on playing the army, but just because I want to see how they change. I'm also pretty stoked about new models. One more thing, it will be interesting to see if the rumor of a dual codex launch of Nids and Blood Angels will be true or not. Highly unlikely yes, but would be awesome nonetheless.

Also, DE FTW!!!

All Dual launch proves is that GW cant wait 6 months to push out another Space Marine Dex.

Soon it will come to pass that with every dex launch it will be paired with a MEQ codex!!

lol

ACK sorry FARMER didnt mean to thread jack lol

Theres no way there'll be a dual launch! Games-workshop simply couldnt fit in that much advertising in white dwarf... could they?!

I quite like the new codex's cover, although I reckon they will TRY to create an emphasis on hybrid CC Tyranid armies rather than swarms or nidzillas, so having loads of gaunts supported by MC's, just my theory anyway...

jp400 wrote:All Dual launch proves is that GW cant wait 6 months to push out another Space Marine Dex.

Soon it will come to pass that with every dex launch it will be paired with a MEQ codex!!

lol

Indeed,GW certainly can't wait to get those ever so popular marines that have gotten them so much money out again .


Honestly though,if i could vote a company for lacking what its fans wanted it would be GW

jp400 wrote:Cant fault a guy for calling a Spade a Spade...

You can if you don't know a damned thing about the new codex. But then again it's just easier to say it's going to be horrible for free ass-pats.

Obviously a fake. There aren't any models firing their weapons into the ground a few feet in front of them.

According to Jervis the Dark Eldar have been in development for 4 years. That's what he said earlier today, anyway.

Ass pats?

Really, I dont want to know what you do on the weekend if thats the first thing that pops into your head. Rofl!

Farmer, I have to agree. GW really doesnt give a damn what its fans want. I personally feel that if it gets any worse it will lead to their downfall.

Clever little fellow you are. Anyone who's watched football or baseball knows that term.

Aye,
but saying "Good Game" doesnt make it any less homosexual to touch another mans ass.

lord_blackfang wrote:Obviously a fake. There aren't any models firing their weapons into the ground a few feet in front of them.

I lol'd.

You mean like the Marine and Guard dexs ?

Moopy, you've been member of dakka since 2k5 and you forget that the cover of a codex is indicative of what is INSIDE the codex?

Apparently a crappy cover means a crappy codex.

/facepalm

I think the only thing H hasn't called crap so far has been SH. It shocked the hell out of me and I had to read his review multiple times to make sure I wasn't missing any sarcasm or hidden snarky comments.

Such a WELL DONE codex cover....

Know what these guard remind me of?

I have nothing against the new nid dex cover,or maybe am not expecting to much from GW.

this just raises the question will there ever be a new dark eldar codex

Farmer wrote:

Honestly though,if i could vote a company for lacking what its fans wanted it would be GW

They're a bleeding money making business for crying out loud!

"Hmmm, now let's think for a moment. Do we risk a loss/fall in profits and share prices or do we go for the safest option?"

To be fair, releasing popular profit making armies/products means that GW can continue to expand, and that means that there might be more of a chance for your Dark Eldar needs. Back in the days of the squats, GW just didn't have the size or power that it has now. When they're ready, they'll do the Codex: DE!

Anyway, what company do you know of that has such a huge specialist fan base as GW does? No matter what they do, not everyone is going to be satisfied or content. Never. Just be happy with what there is and hope for more.

Hell yeah, I'm a GW hardcore fanatic, in case you didn't realize... But it's always good to here people's different opinions!

jp400 wrote:Aye,
but saying "Good Game" doesnt make it any less homosexual to touch another mans ass.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Space Balls!

jp400 wrote:Aye,
but saying "Good Game" doesnt make it any less homosexual to touch another mans ass.

If you're trying to say something clever you might as well keep trying.

Learn from Fateweaver on how to make an arguement (now that was good!).

Cosmic wrote:

Farmer wrote:

Honestly though,if i could vote a company for lacking what its fans wanted it would be GW

They're a bleeding money making business for crying out loud!

"Hmmm, now let's think for a moment. Do we risk a loss in profits and share prices or do we go for the safest option?"

To be fair, releasing popular profit making armies/products means that GW can continue to expand, and that means that there might be more of a chance for your Dark Eldar needs. Back in the days of the squats, GW just didn't have the size or power that it has now. When they're ready, they'll do the Codex: DE!

Anyway, what company do you know of that has such a huge specialist fan base as GW does? No matter what they do, not everyone is going to be satisfied or content. Never. Just be happy with what there is and hope for more.

Hell yeah, I'm a GW hardcore fanatic, in case you didn't realize... But it's always good to here people's different opinions!

Gw isnt Bleeding money...And based off your logic we should have "In the grim darkness of the near future, their will be only Space Marines!" Space Marine 40k (variants).

Your right, they dont have the size and power back then, then they do now. And they did more then with less then they do now with more.
And im done talking with you, cause you are brainwashed to the point that "GW can do no wrong" so argueing with you will be like trying to will a brick wall to move.

Cosmic wrote:

Farmer wrote:

Honestly though,if i could vote a company for lacking what its fans wanted it would be GW

They're a bleeding money making business for crying out loud!

At one point they wasn't as such.

It's only been these past 10 years or so when GW up'd all the prices on everything.

It's gotten so bad my friend has quit and said "f*** paying this amount of money for plastic men".

Oh...and if you hadn't noticed the number of little kids dropping off the hobby as we speak.

Not trying to say anything clever. Just saying that touching another mans ass in my book is a pretty homosexual thing to do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Farmer wrote:

Cosmic wrote:

Farmer wrote:

Honestly though,if i could vote a company for lacking what its fans wanted it would be GW

They're a bleeding money making business for crying out loud!

At one point they wasn't as such.

It's only been these past 10 years or so when GW up'd all the prices on everything.

It's gotten so bad my friend has quit and said "f*** paying this amount of money for plastic men".

I know several people in the past couple of years that has done the exact same thing for the same reasons. I myself have been switching over to skirmish scale games from various publishers (Two Hour Wargames ect ect) and for $40 I have an entire army.

Fair do's, guys. I just like to think positive about stuff, but you're all right, of course... I just don't want to think about such things! "Argh the pain!"

If something means so much, though, and money isn't an issue, people will buy. I guess that I'm just lucky enough (at this moment of time) not to be in the position where money for leasure is a scarce thing indeed. Until that time, I shall be an almighty brick wall!

Actually, homosexual sports teams don't do the ass-patting bit. It's the straight guys that do that.

Cosmic wrote: Fair do's, guys. I just like to think positive about stuff, but you're all right, of course... I just don't want to think about such things! "Argh the pain!"

If something means so much, though, and money isn't an issue, people will buy. I guess that I'm just lucky enough (at this moment of time) not to be in the position where money for leasure is a scarce thing indeed. Until that time, I shall be an almighty brick wall!

Go big or Go home... Go Cinderblock!

We all like to think positive... dont get me wrong. I mean in a perfect world, every army would get the same treatment that Gw dishes out to Space Marines and no codex would go 5+ years without an update and our little plastic army men wouldnt cost $50 for a box of guys.

Cosmic wrote:

If something means so much, though, and money isn't an issue, people will buy. I guess that I'm just lucky enough (at this moment of time) not to be in the position where money for leasure is a scarce thing indeed. Until that time, I shall be an almighty brick wall!

Yeah,and i'll get a bank loan just so i can go play with some plastic men with my friends.

Honestly though,if GW keeps raising prices adults let alone kids will drop off the hobby scene.

Nurglitch wrote:Actually, homosexual sports teams don't do the ass-patting bit. It's the straight guys that do that.

Rofl... I rest my case.

It looks awesomess, noww we jsut need to see some of the actual models lol.

No, it's pointing out just how badly your case fails: mainstream sports are cool with the ass-pat precisely because it is non-sexual between straight men.

jp400 wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:Actually, homosexual sports teams don't do the ass-patting bit. It's the straight guys that do that.

Rofl... I rest my case.

Good. You finally got it. Now read the last half of my post as it pertains to yo... whiners who think the codex is going to suck and have no proof about it.

Although the bad cover argument does hold water.

I refuse to believe thats the actual Tyranid cover.

Unless carnifex get Stupidity rule in the new codex , because thats what it looks like.

Its just standing there with a stupid look and stupid pose.

Espcially the central body mass of the carnifex is RIGHT IN THE CENTER , no one
designs pictures that way. ( unless thats like some card game picture )

I bet 90% of whiners on dakka over plastic mini prices smoke at least a pack of cigs/fags a day.

Most of my friends who play 40k smoke and I hear the bitching every month. Apparently people don't mind spending $200/month on cigs but bitch at having to spend $50 every 4-6 years to buy a new rulebook.

Makes me go WTF? everytime I hear it.

In another thread somewhere someone did the math and at least here in the US if you work a $7.50/hour job you actually have to work LESS hours to afford a box of Tactical Space Marines than you did 10 years ago, so I think a lot of the bitching about prices is just that.

Yeah, that was way off topic.

Moopy wrote:

jp400 wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:Actually, homosexual sports teams don't do the ass-patting bit. It's the straight guys that do that.

Rofl... I rest my case.

Good. You finally got it. Now read the last half of my post as it pertains to yo... whiners who think the codex is going to suck and have no proof about it.

Although the bad cover argument does hold water.

Well...from the pics GW gives us i hope the Trygon and Malanthrope get included in the new dex,would be sweet and give more options.

You leave my cigarette-a-day habit out of this!

Actually no, I don't complain about prices. I figure if you don't like the prices, you should find another hobby. It's not as if you have to pay full price.

Moopy wrote:

jp400 wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:Actually, homosexual sports teams don't do the ass-patting bit. It's the straight guys that do that.

Rofl... I rest my case.

Good. You finally got it. Now read the last half of my post as it pertains to yo... whiners who think the codex is going to suck and have no proof about it.

Although the bad cover argument does hold water.

Oh I get it just fine. You condone one man touching another mans ass. Its ok. I dont care.... really. And I dont really want to re-read what Ive already... espically since it pertains to Yo.

Now if you will excuse me, I do have other thigns to do then sit here while you try to convice me that touching another mans ass is Ok so long as you say "Good Game" after.

Good day to you.

jp400 wrote:

Moopy wrote:

jp400 wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:Actually, homosexual sports teams don't do the ass-patting bit. It's the straight guys that do that.

Rofl... I rest my case.

Good. You finally got it. Now read the last half of my post as it pertains to yo... whiners who think the codex is going to suck and have no proof about it.

Although the bad cover argument does hold water.

Oh I get it just fine. You condone one man touching another mans ass. Its ok. I dont care.... really. And I dont really want to re-read what Ive already... espically since it pertains to Yo.

Now if you will excuse me, I do have other thigns to do then sit here while you try to convice me that touching another mans ass is Ok so long as you say "Good Game" after.

Good day to you.

Lolwut?.
The fact you guys are even talking about this leads me to doute which forum am actually on.

LunaHound wrote:

Its just standing there with a stupid look and stupid pose.

He's still striking that pose after he crushed the rhino on the first cover.

"Hey! Remember when I totally crushed that rhino? Cool huh! Hey where are you all going?"

UltraPrime wrote:Can't wait to get this.

Surprised HMBC hasn't come in to say how crap it is yet though...

Y'all are just looking in the wrong place.

From the games day thread on this very page...

H.B.M.C. wrote:Soon the the Imperium faces a new thread, one from a quarter they never saw coming.

Prepare for...

Hive Fleet Arbitrary

RZ

Nurglitch wrote:You leave my cigarette-a-day habit out of this!

Actually no, I don't complain about prices. I figure if you don't like the prices, you should find another hobby. It's not as if you have to pay full price.

Alas, I am not a brick wall! Cheers mate!

The important thing is that we know that jp400 doesn't care if people condone touching another man's ass. Nope, not at all...

Fateweaver wrote:I bet 90% of whiners on dakka over plastic mini prices smoke at least a pack of cigs/fags a day.

Most of my friends who play 40k smoke and I hear the bitching every month. Apparently people don't mind spending $200/month on cigs but bitch at having to spend $50 every 4-6 years to buy a new rulebook.

Makes me go WTF? everytime I hear it.

In another thread somewhere someone did the math and at least here in the US if you work a $7.50/hour job you actually have to work LESS hours to afford a box of Tactical Space Marines than you did 10 years ago, so I think a lot of the bitching about prices is just that.

Yeah, that was way off topic.

Hmmm...
I wish I only had to buy a new rulebook every time GW decides to Sqaut a army or change a codex update. Tell that to my IG and CSM. Had to drastically change both around to make a TO viable build.

And to me, threads like yours make me go WTF everytime I hear them. Expensive is expensive no matter how you try to put a spin on it. A new army costs about as much as one of my new house payments. Dont care how you spin it for little plasic army men thats fethed up.

jp400 wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:I bet 90% of whiners on dakka over plastic mini prices smoke at least a pack of cigs/fags a day.

Most of my friends who play 40k smoke and I hear the bitching every month. Apparently people don't mind spending $200/month on cigs but bitch at having to spend $50 every 4-6 years to buy a new rulebook.

Makes me go WTF? everytime I hear it.

In another thread somewhere someone did the math and at least here in the US if you work a $7.50/hour job you actually have to work LESS hours to afford a box of Tactical Space Marines than you did 10 years ago, so I think a lot of the bitching about prices is just that.

Yeah, that was way off topic.

Hmmm...
I wish I only had to buy a new rulebook every time GW decides to Sqaut a army or change a codex update. Tell that to my IG and CSM. Had to drastically change both around to make a TO viable build.

And to me, threads like yours make me go WTF everytime I hear them. Expensive is expensive no matter how you try to put a spin on it. A new army costs about as much as one of my new house payments. Dont care how you spin it for little plasic army men thats fethed up.

True,i mean look at the number of 13th company wulfun players that just recently got the hammer...

Had a short chat with Robin Cruddace.

Nothing too stellar news really. the codex is written now, he's said 'either January or February.'

He wouldn't talk about specifics, of course. But he did say something when someone asked him;

"are we still going to get biomorphs?"

"Well, the codex follows on from the current releases in format. So, while I can't tell you anything, think about that a second and you'll get an idea."

So, I think that's Games Developer speak for, "there will be biomorphs and they will be in the list format of, "may take one of the following...."

He also talked a wee bit about the design process. "Well, when we sit down to right a codex, I get given a pile of all the letters and things that people write in, that are split into MUST-FIX, Should-fix, would-be-nice."

He then added, "a lot of the letters in the first pile are about lictors and spore mines. So, while I can't tell you what they are, I think the lictors really are the best representation of them yet, but then I would say that, wouldn't I."

And since Dark Eldar were mentioned.

Phil Kelly would REALLY REALLY REALLY like to be the one writing the Dark Eldar codex. He said he was 'immensely proud' of the Eldar codex and feels that doing the Dark Eldar would really be a great build up and extension of the work he's done on the Eldar.

Now, I must stress that it isn't him saying that he is doing it, but he was incredibly enthusiastic about wanting to do it. I guess you could say it's like it coming 'full circle' for him.

Moopy wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Its just standing there with a stupid look and stupid pose.

He's still striking that pose after he crushed the rhino on the first cover.

"Hey! Remember when I totally crushed that rhino? Cool huh! Hey where are you all going?"

Lol i so agree with you , and here is some proof to that!

LunaHound wrote:I refuse to believe thats the actual Tyranid cover.

Unless carnifex get Stupidity rule in the new codex , because thats what it looks like.

Its just standing there with a stupid look and stupid pose.

Espcially the central body mass of the carnifex is RIGHT IN THE CENTER , no one
designs pictures that way. ( unless thats like some card game picture )

Judging a book by its cover now are we?

What, would you rather it was standing there in smoking jacket, slippers and fez, peering through a monocle at the latest printing of Principia Mathematica?

Received tons of mail warnings replies t this thread was hoping for something nid related... and i get silly ramblings about DE, gays and really childish posts... waste of time!!!!

thanks to Compel for keepind things interesting...

Let's leave homosexuality out of it and get back on topic.

NAVARRO wrote:Received tons of mail warnings replies t this thread was hoping for something nid related... and i get silly ramblings about DE, gays and really childish posts... waste of time!!!!

thanks to Compel for keepind things interesting...

Aye, Cosmic apologizes for his earlier randomness. Recently I've noticed the more cartoonish appearances of newer GW cover artwork, mainly Warhammer Armies: The Empire and Codex Imperial Guard. It must just be the particular artist. Afterall, there is no right or wrong with art. But yes, something about it is strange indeed. Could it perhaps be another piece of artwork, say, a related Tyranids painting in the new Codex? Or maybe it is just a small part of the bigger picture. It's not bad at all, no, I don't think that this new picture is bad in any respects. Not perfect, but not terrible either. What I'm saying is this: Is it a new GW "teaser" experimentation?

Stay on topic, guys! "Ahem!"

There are some new bugs on the cover if you look at hires pics you can see some kind of small beetles... really cool.

Cosmic wrote:Recently I've noticed the more cartoonish appearances of newer GW cover artwork, mainly Warhammer Armies: The Empire and Codex Imperial Guard.

Often they'll over use an artist and he/she doesn't have the time to do everything that's needed to the level of quality that is desired. The other thing is the art director- what he likes... well... goes in the books. Hopefully we like what he likes or we're outta luck.

Moopy wrote:Often they'll over use an artist and he/she doesn't have the time to do everything that's needed to the level of quality that is desired.

I recall reading WD 300 a few weeks back. I'm sure that John Blanche said that they don't hire artists like they used to anymore. He said that, because they have their own full-time artists, they don't have to worry about the painter not knowing anything about GW, e.g. "What the hell are 'Nids' anyway?"

Moopy wrote:The other thing is the art director- what he likes... well... goes in the books. Hopefully we like what he likes or we're outta luck.

I think that John Blanche knows what he's up to... Although, he does have a very personal artisic taste - As do all artists and people alike.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wait a minute, I know what you're getting at. John did also say in WD 300 that sometimes they were given an insane amount of artwork to complete in a very short amount of time (like the older box cover painings), but the ones that he described of seemed to realistic.

Check the bigger pic at warseer...
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70832&d=1254067819

Notice the beetles everywere? even on tha carni body... they almost look like some nidmites I sculpted years ago...

jp400 wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:I bet 90% of whiners on dakka over plastic mini prices smoke at least a pack of cigs/fags a day.

Most of my friends who play 40k smoke and I hear the bitching every month. Apparently people don't mind spending $200/month on cigs but bitch at having to spend $50 every 4-6 years to buy a new rulebook.

Makes me go WTF? everytime I hear it.

In another thread somewhere someone did the math and at least here in the US if you work a $7.50/hour job you actually have to work LESS hours to afford a box of Tactical Space Marines than you did 10 years ago, so I think a lot of the bitching about prices is just that.

Yeah, that was way off topic.

Hmmm...
I wish I only had to buy a new rulebook every time GW decides to Sqaut a army or change a codex update. Tell that to my IG and CSM. Had to drastically change both around to make a TO viable build.

And to me, threads like yours make me go WTF everytime I hear them. Expensive is expensive no matter how you try to put a spin on it. A new army costs about as much as one of my new house payments. Dont care how you spin it for little plasic army men thats fethed up.

No one's asking you to stay in 40k. Apparently you have never actively pursued paintball, sailing, or some other type of hobby. I spent more on paintball tournament fees and paintballs (those aren't provided unless you are a pro and get sponsored) and upgrading my gear and repairs on my gear in 6 months than I have in 5 years of 40k (and I spend around $100/month on 40k, you do the math) but unlike people who nag on GW's prices I never nagged or bitched about WDP charging $1500 for a paintball gun only to release something new and better 6 months down the road. I got out on my own because I realized it was too pricey. I gave it up over financial problems. Don't like the prices then get out. I'll even hold the door open for you.

On topic.

Bah, covers are covers. If the cover was just a blank A4 with "Codex: Tyranids" written in pink crayon I wouldn't bitch so long as the inside pages and the rules were the same standard they are now.

NAVARRO wrote:Check the bigger pic at warseer...
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70832&d=1254067819

Notice the beetles everywere? even on tha carni body... they almost look like some nidmites I sculpted years ago...

Don't want to sound rude but WTF are you on about ?.

NAVARRO wrote:Notice the beetles everywere? even on tha carni body... they almost look like some nidmites I sculpted years ago...

Now that's cool... Makes the Nids seem more like space bugs than ever before. How am I supposed to sleep tonight? Note to self: Seal all windows and doors. Check under the bed at least five times. Turn the lamp light off, and then quickly back on again, just to be sure.

Shudder...

NAVARRO wrote:Check the bigger pic at warseer...
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70832&d=1254067819

Anyone else notice the thing on the left hand side right under the Carni's claw behind the Hormagaunts with the spikes? Weird looking Genestealer, Hormagaunt Mutant, or new species?

Edit: Looking again, it almost looks like a Mini-Fex.

With so many variations of bug in the fluff (ever evolving) it's hard to tell what will be in the game and what is artist fancy.

Maybe it's just a Carnifex that's far away.

UltraPrime wrote:Surprised HMBC hasn't come in to say how crap it is yet though...

Eh? It's a cover. I haven't got a problem with the cover, and I want Tyranids to be redone because we'll get some new models.

Honestly...

Something I'd point out is that it's very much in the style of the Codex: Chaos Daemons cover, rather than the Space Marine or Imperial Guard covers. It seems to be a bit of a theme going on there.

I see what you mean. Big Giant Swarm. Ugly looking monsters...I like it.

Fateweaver wrote:
No one's asking you to stay in 40k. Apparently you have never actively pursued paintball, sailing, or some other type of hobby. I spent more on paintball tournament fees and paintballs (those aren't provided unless you are a pro and get sponsored) and upgrading my gear and repairs on my gear in 6 months than I have in 5 years of 40k (and I spend around $100/month on 40k, you do the math) but unlike people who nag on GW's prices I never nagged or bitched about WDP charging $1500 for a paintball gun only to release something new and better 6 months down the road. I got out on my own because I realized it was too pricey. I gave it up over financial problems. Don't like the prices then get out. I'll even hold the door open for you.

Sigh....
I play paintball. Have for the last 10 years. Ive spent more on 40k in a month after a new dex comes out then I have on Paintball in a year. And yes I play semi-pro in my area. What gear do you have that constantly needs an overhaul? Pods? Packs? Fancy uniforms? I buy these things once (Some not at all) and save for an occasional breakage due to an accident I never spend another penny on said items.

Plus if you go all crazy and spend 1500 on a marker that shoots 30+Bps... why do you want the newer one that comes out 6 months later that still only shoots 30+Bps? Is it cause the new one is slimmer and sports a fancier grip? If so then I hate to say it but you just bought into the hype. Its still the same marker, just slight cosmetic differences. At its heart the two markers are the same.

Unlike what GW has done to some armies in the past....(CSM)

I also collect and shoot firearms as another hobby of mine. Sure it has some cost attached to it, but unlike 40k I never have to worry about a new TM comming out invalidating my current build (AC, LATD, Squats ect) Or worrying that the gun I bought will still be legal and viable when a new edition comes out (CSM, IG) Plus I can (and do) cast my own bullets, and reload them so that damn near halfs the cost (At a min) of ammo.

Like Ive said before... any way you try to put a spin on it... Stuff like this is nuts!
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020021&prodId=prod1060028

It would be nice to see Nids focus changed from Nidzilla to Hordes.

I for one am hoping that the following rumors are true. (Note that I am not commenting on the validity of said rumors.)

Tyranid Warriors can be had as Elites, Troops, Fast Attack and Heavy Support. Yay!!!

The Trygon is in the Codex. (Excuse me while I wipe up...)

Like HBMC said, the cover does not make the codex. However, that is a crappy pic. I believe those beetles are the little critters that clean up the Hive ships. They must get everywhere.

Id love to see the Trygon in a dex... however I honestly dont see how they can do it without dumbing it down for standard 40k games.

jp400 wrote:Id love to see the Trygon in a dex... however I honestly dont see how they can do it without dumbing it down for standard 40k games.

Well...from what it looks like the Trygon will be in the new dex.
And i doute GW will be selling Trygons without them being in the codex.

The extreme lack of news on anything from GDUK is maddening.

warpcrafter wrote:I for one am hoping that the following rumors are true. (Note that I am not commenting on the validity of said rumors.)

Tyranid Warriors can be had as Elites, Troops, Fast Attack and Heavy Support. Yay!!!

The Trygon is in the Codex. (Excuse me while I wipe up...)

Like HBMC said, the cover does not make the codex. However, that is a crappy pic. I believe those beetles are the little critters that clean up the Hive ships. They must get everywhere.

It is a bad picture. But the cover is not bad.

It's a cover guys, honestly - is it worth so much bile and spittle?

H.B.M.C. wrote:It's a cover guys, honestly - is it worth so much bile and spittle?

Yes and no.


No because its just a picture.

Yes because they are amateur mistakes
that and we are stuck with looking at it for 4 years.

the cover looks good IMHO. I like how it looks more realistic kinda like looking into a coral reef. However, i hate the fact that its almost exactly like the previous cover in overall design.

i mean really are wandering carnies the only concept in the entire codex worth drawing?

H.B.M.C. wrote:The extreme lack of news on anything from GDUK is maddening.

Maybe GW actually want to keep most of it a surprise.

At least they're not doing the whole "No, it's not Space Hulk, silly! It's really not! LOL, just kidding, it WAS Space Hulk, LOL!" thing again.

If they did something like that it would take a tactical geni........

CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!

I see meiotic spore mines are represented on the cover. Those beetles look like mobile adrenal glands.

I wonder what sort of bonuses mobile adrenal glands will confer in the new codex...

Farmer wrote:True,i mean look at the number of 13th company wulfun players that just recently got the hammer...

Yeah, I mean their models are TOTALLY worthless now!

What are they going to do with their...

wolf lord -> wolf lord
rune priest -> rune priest
wolf priest -> wolf priest
storm claws -> sky claws
wulfen pack -> model in every unit that can take mark of the wulfen
grey slayers -> grey hunters
fenrisian wolf pack -> fenrisian wolf pack
storm claws bikers -> swift claws
long fangs -> long fangs

I can only hope that one day, the 13th co. players can learn to forgive GW.

To actually address tyranids... I am very excited that their release has been moved up a whole month. I just snagged a battleforce from my FLGS and that same FLGS is doing a tale of many gamers style build and battle campaign which I've just signed up for. We start at the beginning of november, so I just have to survive a couple months and hope that I don't glue too many models with the wrong upgrades. Who knows, maybe we'll get lucky with a leak.

I am very happy that Robin has written the book. With a couple of unfortunate exceptions, I love what he did with my beloved guard. I have made competitive lists that played so radically different from each other, and haven't even begun experimenting with the many units that can fit into competitive games with the right touch. I'm pretty confident that the Nid codex will have that kind of diversity, especially with the introduction of new units!

It looks like those gaunts are falling into that toothy hole. Are they adding "tyranid" Nydus worms to the army?

Cheese Elemental wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:The extreme lack of news on anything from GDUK is maddening.

Maybe GW actually want to keep most of it a surprise.

Yeah,they kept somthing that's 4 months away a big secret rofl....

Tbh in a way its spoilt the surprise because now everyone knows Nids are coming.

Now we just play the boring waiting game.

Nurglitch wrote:What, would you rather it was standing there in smoking jacket, slippers and fez, peering through a monocle at the latest printing of Principia Mathematica?

Someone needs to get to work on this idea right away, because it's hilarious.

In other news: Huh. Tyranids getting redone. Well, they are flagship Xenos. Shame they're not doing necrons or DE first though.

Farmer wrote:

Cheese Elemental wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:The extreme lack of news on anything from GDUK is maddening.

Maybe GW actually want to keep most of it a surprise.

Yeah,they kept somthing that's 4 months away a big secret rofl....

Tbh in a way its spoilt the surprise because now everyone knows Nids are coming.

Now we just play the boring waiting game.

I meant keeping details a surprise. We knew absolutely everything that was in the SW and IG codicies weeks before they were released.

And we will again for the Tyranid book. And the Skaven book. And whatever comes after them.

Wouldn't it just be easier to preview their own books and upcoming releases? Maybe they could do it at some big once-a-year event like a games... day or something. I dunno. You come up with a good name. But at these 'Games Days' they could have the whole new range on display, painted perfectly, to show off what the new kits could do - maybe even run demo games with the new Army Books/Codices, offer advanced release kits as prizes, that sort've thing. They could use theses 'Games Days' to have Q&A's with the writers of their books, giving us an incite into the design process and why certain decisions could be made, and even brief looks into the future of the rules with what great new stuff they've got coming up for us. They could show off upcoming models and collector's pieces at these 'Games Days' as well, and give all the attendees something to go home and tell their friends about, so everyone gets all buzzed about the upcoming releases.

I think I might write to GW about this 'Games Day' idea and... oh wait...

Crap.

Fateweaver wrote:I bet 90% of whiners on dakka over plastic mini prices smoke at least a pack of cigs/fags a day.

Most of my friends who play 40k smoke and I hear the bitching every month. Apparently people don't mind spending $200/month on cigs but bitch at having to spend $50 every 4-6 years to buy a new rulebook.

Makes me go WTF? everytime I hear it.

In another thread somewhere someone did the math and at least here in the US if you work a $7.50/hour job you actually have to work LESS hours to afford a box of Tactical Space Marines than you did 10 years ago, so I think a lot of the bitching about prices is just that.

Yeah, that was way off topic.

Yeah but I NEED those ciggies!! So I dont reach over the table and strangle my warhammer opponent.

Back to topic: Im kinda disapointed we didnt get a cron and DE codex first, but I'm not surprised. Hopefully the new nids will be good, I'm optimistic. Hopefully they'll go towards a more swarm type of army, I'd like to see cost-effective hormigaunts. Cheaper genestealers would be cool too, maybe 13-14 points a piece base cost?

Compel wrote:He also talked a wee bit about the design process. "Well, when we sit down to right a codex, I get given a pile of all the letters and things that people write in, that are split into MUST-FIX, Should-fix, would-be-nice."

He then added, "a lot of the letters in the first pile are about lictors and spore mines. So, while I can't tell you what they are, I think the lictors really are the best representation of them yet, but then I would say that, wouldn't I."

Spore mines being a bigger player in the new codex, check. Lictors...well...I've been burned there before. It would be really great if they were a$$-kickers. But it's been 11 years since we had that, and I refuse to get my hopes up again. Hey, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Regarding the cover, I don't get the drama. It's not any worse or better than most codex cover art. Really now, who spends time looking at the cover after they get the book? All the relevant stuff is in the inside. You guys generate all this negativity and simultaneously wonder why GW's gunshy about showing stuff off other than in tightly controlled situations.

For the record, I don't like the current purple-white color scheme, but there's a reason why they only modified it slightly. That means they don't have to redo all their packaging.

Hopefully they'll go towards a more swarm type of army, I'd like to see cost-effective hormigaunts.

Assuming the rumors come true, Gaunts will be 3 points, base, and come with WoN. That is, with weapons, they'll be 4 points. That's right where they should be, in my opinion.

Hormagaunts will be 6 points but will not have WoN built in. You'll have to pay 3 points/model if you want it. That will not be worthwhile, I don't think. I'm reasonably certain that 3 Hormies beat 2 recyclable ones in just about every circumstance. You want that charge to be as effective as possible since every subsequent combat round will be all sorts of terrible, thanks to No Retreat (assuming we don't get some sort of work-around for that).

In related news, I'm really hoping they fix they way synapse just murders Gaunts. Yeah, they're supposed to be expendable, but it doesn't seem like basically making 2 of them die per wound the unit takes is a good way to represent that quality.

Man I'm glad I didn't scrap my nids hopefully this dex will be full of epicness.

MilkmanAl wrote:In related news, I'm really hoping they fix they way synapse just murders Gaunts. Yeah, they're supposed to be expendable, but it doesn't seem like basically making 2 of them die per wound the unit takes is a good way to represent that quality.

With the points cut and free WoN, I suspect they aren't going to do anything about No Retreat wounds. Looks to me like they want them to die in droves and then be recycled. Which means we won't be able to tarpit much, and combo assaults involving Gaunts will be a liability. Maybe I'm wrong, but if not I'm really going to have to sit down and think about how to make a horde work with those limitations. It'll be very different. I'm obviously getting well ahead of myself, but I'm already wondering if I'll end up fielding only Hormagaunts.

Hey, look what I found. Biotitan....
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=4600015a#

Bah Nevermind, it's just the FW model... Sorry, I jumped the gun.

Yeah, I agree. The free WoN is a fairly telling sign that the No Retreat/synapse=Fearless combo is here to stay. I'm still holding out hope that synapse will give LD10 Stubborn that also applies to pinning, but meh. I doubt that'll happen.

It's going to be difficult to keep units of 20+ Gaunts from getting into multiple combats, and it seems like that's what it will take to make them effective. Crush things on the charge, and hope you kill enough to keep the combat in your favor while also hoping he doesn't stick that other unit of marines in and hose you. Coordinating that is going to be fun.

Despite not having WoN, it looks like Hormies are going to be the way to go. As reported, they sound like they're back to their old ways of holding up/disrupting stuff for that crucial turn or two while everything closes. At 6 points each, they're actually useful for the sacrificial lamb role. 10 points per is a crime.

On the flip side, I'm not convinced that WoN for Gaunts will be particularly useful for combat purposes. Yeah, they can run back up to the fight with reckless abandon, but even if your opponent has ventured into your deployment zone, you're going to have to get pretty lucky to have them do something other than just move (and run) during the turn they come back. I don't know that the off chance of swarming something late in the game is all that wonderful of an ability. Clearly, though, that's why it's going to be free now. We shall see.

yeah, harlies and things were suplemental armys to existing core armies (IG, eldar, etc.)

Scrapping DE would be a pretty lame thing to do, and I agree, the outrage alone will lose GW a lot of money. If they've already invested so much time and resources, and as an earlier poster mentioned finished half the line of models, it makes more sense to actually release them than scrap em. I mean, Nids' are about as played as DE, and I think DE would get played more if they had a new codex and models!

I don't like the cover...it's not in their normal art style, it grates, It's got clear sky's instead of dark foreboding ones full of mycetic spores, it's not epic enough, and IMHO that 'fex is looking a bit anaemic

Speaking as a one-time former nid player and a guy who has been hunting down battleforces in anticipation for a new dex in january, I have to say... I love no retreat wounds on gaunts.

Its so perfectly cinematic, close combat heroes wade into a sea of gaunts and pile the bodies to the sky, and just when they think they finished the threat, a new unit pours on from the table edge.

In practice, non-horma units are there to provide anti-infantry fire support, charge screen, and cover save for units behind them, like tyrant guard and (cough) warriors. The dual purpose of fulfilling the cover save and charge screen role, and then re-entering play later in the game in order to take back field objectives is very powerful, and unique to the nids.

Now, I will freely admit that under the current codex, gaunts are neither cheap enough, nor are they killy enough versus infantry models to warrant taking no retreat wounds. With a double dose of cost decrease and (hopefully) fire power increase, I don't think I imagine anyone will have a hard time swallowing the no retreat rule. In fact I expect many of you to cheer your opponent on as he rips through your numbers, the quicker he can cut them down, the quicker you can get your fresh unit into position on the objective.

Now, as for hormagaunts. This is the unit that has more problems with no retreat. The trick with balancing hormagaunts is that they need to be able to win combats against non-CC specialists by a considerable margin. That means they need a massive points cost reduction. If a WS5 I5 STR4 gaunt is 10 points, then we've got a unit that matches up very favorably on the charge versus 200 points of tactical squad. Even a grey hunter unit will be rolling 20 armor saves before they swing. Thats actually a nice sweet spot, plenty of wounds to not worry about no retreat, and a decent possibility that you'll get stuck in CC for another half-turn. The 6 point hormagaunt would make a grey hunter unit take 16 wounds simultaneously as it takes 10 wounds back (without a mark of wulfen upgrade). So that is obviously not a good option. Here is to hoping that the basic cost of hormas is 6, but the strength, WS and I options are there, and cheap.

Zid wrote:

Scrapping DE would be a pretty lame thing to do, and I agree, the outrage alone will lose GW a lot of money. If they've already invested so much time and resources, and as an earlier poster mentioned finished half the line of models, it makes more sense to actually release them than scrap em. I mean, Nids' are about as played as DE, and I think DE would get played more if they had a new codex and models!

QFT.
Trust me,the number of people that say "well i always liked DE,but the models put me off" then GW wonders why they don't sell well...

I love no retreat wounds on gaunts.

Its so perfectly cinematic, close combat heroes wade into a sea of gaunts and pile the bodies to the sky, and just when they think they finished the threat, a new unit pours on from the table edge.

I'm with ya there. It's a pretty cool touch, but since cheapest WoN Gaunts can get is 8 points, it's crippling. With a reduction to 4 points, you could let those fools die ad nauseam. That would be the Tyranid swarm I used to know and love.

Don't judge a book by its cover. I just hope the codex is not as badly executed as the cover because it sucks serious a...

Greets
Schepp himself

Like I said earlier in one of these threads, I think the fun of fighting Tyranids is causing damage to them. The gaunts just need something to justify them being so easy to kill.

Can I get this straight: Space Wolves are around the corner, and Blood Angels, Nids, Necrons and DE are coming later too?

Honestly GW is goin so overbored on MEQ (especially SM).
The Hobby would be such a richer experiance were there variety, instead of many versoins of the same simplistic set-up.
Blood Angels are not needed at all, the main SM codex is brand new not to mention all the randoms like DA, Templars and shortly SW etc. Even Chaos is like just another version of SM now.

?

Just my $0.02

jp400 wrote:I also collect and shoot firearms as another hobby of mine. Sure it has some cost attached to it, but unlike 40k I never have to worry about a new TM comming out invalidating my current build (AC, LATD, Squats ect) Or worrying that the gun I bought will still be legal and viable when a new edition comes out (CSM, IG) Plus I can (and do) cast my own bullets, and reload them so that damn near halfs the cost (At a min) of ammo.

Are you a Democrat in denial, or a Republican survivalist?

Everybody else knows that Obama's going to try to take away our guns!

Railguns wrote:Like I said earlier in one of these threads, I think the fun of fighting Tyranids is causing damage to them. The gaunts just need something to justify them being so easy to kill.

Something I thought about was having Tyranids in Synapse having a rule like the Dark Eldar Talos' Claws, where extra hits give a bonus to armour penetration, so a big swarm of Termagants, for example, could peel a Rhino like a grape if enough of them get there. Something to reflect their swarming nature would at least be cool.

KingCracker wrote:
Still waiting to see a picture like that but with some DE on it lol

I'd love to see a cover illustration where nids were eating Dark Eldar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So... anyone in touch with Bugswarm?

adielubbe wrote:Even Chaos is like just another version of SM now.

I think everyone recognizes, though, that this was a BAD change. Nobody wanted this at all. Trust me, I'd like to be able to field characterful daemons, maybe even spawn, and definitely cultists, but GW's made two of those evaporate and the spawn currently SUCK.


As far as cost of the hobby is concerned, it's hit and miss. GW's raised prices, but on the other hand they've also released great plastic kits. No longer do you need to spend $50 or more for 5 marauder horsemen or chaos knights. For just 22, or 27, or something like that you get more easily converted, much more impressive-looking models! Things like skeletons, sure, used to come 16 to a box for $30 and are now 22 for 10. But they look a lot cooler and have a lot more extra bits that are actually usable. I call that paying for quality.

And in the end, after working at a Hobbytown USA, I like to compare the cost of my hobby with almost any other hobby. I could be into trains [hundreds of dollars per layout, thousands of dollars in equipment, $600 train sets], or guns [hundreds to thousands for a gun depending], or R/C racing [oh god the cost of the cars, plus equipment, plus parts, replacement parts, upgraded parts, fuel....].

Plastic men is a very cheap hobby, all things considered, and when modelling and painting is included, provides way way more hours of entertainment than most others. The only cheaper hobby I've found is online gaming [$15 a month for as much time as you want? sure!], and that's just.... meh, sit at a computer all day no thanks!

Spellbound wrote:

adielubbe wrote:Even Chaos is like just another version of SM now.

I think everyone recognizes, though, that this was a BAD change. Nobody wanted this at all.

Untrue. Many of us didn't like Codex: Evil Pigeonholes.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Spellbound wrote:

adielubbe wrote:Even Chaos is like just another version of SM now.

I think everyone recognizes, though, that this was a BAD change. Nobody wanted this at all.

Untrue. Many of us didn't like Codex: Evil Pigeonholes.

You mean the new one, right? The current one, with like 2 competitive builds, and only ONE good HQ choice?

The old one had LOTS of options with LOTS of character and MANY viable builds. The new one is a piece of crap.

The NEW chaos codex, though, which some call Codex: Space Wolves, has brought back the character, variety, viability, and proper feel of the chaos space marines. It's a shame there's no daemons, but hey the POS one didn't really have any either apart from crappy princes and GDs.

Spellbound wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Spellbound wrote:

adielubbe wrote:Even Chaos is like just another version of SM now.

I think everyone recognizes, though, that this was a BAD change. Nobody wanted this at all.

Untrue. Many of us didn't like Codex: Evil Pigeonholes.

You mean the new one, right?

Don't be ridiculous.

Here we go again...

I agree with John and I hope Spellbound is not being that obtuse about what JHDD is talking about? Or can he?

I foresee a lock pretty soon if this "unmentionable" codex pissing contest kicks off again.

Spellbound wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Spellbound wrote:

adielubbe wrote:Even Chaos is like just another version of SM now.

I think everyone recognizes, though, that this was a BAD change. Nobody wanted this at all.

Untrue. Many of us didn't like Codex: Evil Pigeonholes.

You mean the new one, right? The current one, with like 2 competitive builds, and only ONE good HQ choice?

The old one had LOTS of options with LOTS of character and MANY viable builds. The new one is a piece of crap.

The NEW chaos codex, though, which some call Codex: Space Wolves, has brought back the character, variety, viability, and proper feel of the chaos space marines. It's a shame there's no daemons, but hey the POS one didn't really have any either apart from crappy princes and GDs.

OMG, i have got to do this now, i will make a Chaos army and use SW rules!!!!

Thunderwolves being marines riding http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1120033&prodId=prod1170209

A greater Deamon conversion being the character dread

Blood claws! http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020024&prodId=prod1095443

There is alot of great ways to make this awesome to have a Chaos looking army with SW rules!!!

Back on topic, I don't mind the cover. Yes, it's a bit sunny, but do skies always have to darken when the bad guys attack?

See Starship Troopers for an example of a scary attack by bugs in broad daylight.

Ahem, I mean scary for those involved. I wasn't scared

It's apparent the reason GW changed the old CSM codex was that it was clearly overpowered, so they 'split' it into two armies so to say: new CSM and Daemons..

Yet I'm saying this change evidently just led to another SM (MEQ) army, on top of the extreme amount currently standing.

I simply hope they get creative with the new Tyranids, DE and Necrons. Because if those Xenos get a cutting edge, the game will drastically improve, 'cus as I see it atm, It's MEQ vs. basically Orks (sometimes Gaurd)... ?

If those for mentioned bulk up, its game-on
I hope

Someone needs to change the title of this thread, although I'm not sure you could justify "Why Codex Chaos Space Marines are rubbish" being in the News and Rumours section.

I do not know what to make of this little green Nids. I mean if they are a new unit tyranids would be the first 40k army with two diffrent swarm bases (unless there is something way back in history I do not know about). My speculations would go more that they are a new type of upgrade like Toxin Sacks or Adrinaline Glands. One of them is obviously attached to the Carnifexes joint. TBH the pose of the FEX is lame but those are one of the meanest Nids I have ever seen. I am pretty glad that I do not have to wait until Feburary and it will be nice to follow the codex rumours from November till December .

Flashman wrote:Someone needs to change the title of this thread, although I'm not sure you could justify "Why Codex Chaos Space Marines are rubbish" being in the News and Rumours section.

This isn't news.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Symbio Joe wrote:TBH the pose of the FEX is lame but those are one of the meanest Nids I have ever seen.

Nids ? mean ? get out of there,they love cuddles

The guy is complaining about the bright sky because supposedly when Tyranids attack the skies darken specifically because of all of the different types of spores that are released over the target planet. If not dark, at least blood red or some other dark color.
We've had the Chaos codex discussion well over the necessary number of times. it had a general list, like the current codex, and several sublists w/ changes and different units if you wanted legion specific/god specific lists, like Pete Haines correctly surmised(although he did treat Iron Warriors like his special baby). There was no pidgeon-holing unless you chose to be, and the new codex stripped out much of what people liked about Chaos. End of meaningful discussion, there.

The adrenal glands and toxin sacs are always mentioned as being symbiotes, but never have been mentioned as being capable of independant movement. It wouldn't make sense to me to have them attack with a swarm on the ground when everything is going to be so much faster than them that they'll never catch up and latch on to something useful. This must be some sort of "staging" scene.

Railguns wrote:
The adrenal glands and toxin sacs are always mentioned as being symbiotes, but never have been mentioned as being capable of independant movement. It wouldn't make sense to me to have them attack with a swarm on the ground when everything is going to be so much faster than them that they'll never catch up and latch on to something useful. This must be some sort of "staging" scene.

Imagine glands/sacs slugging off of downed nids and upgrading passing units or trying to attack on their own.
not doable really ingame but would be fun fluff

The Chaos Space Marine codex is off-topic in this thread. If you'd like to discuss it further, please do so with your gaming group; we've had quite enough of it here.

Symbio Joe wrote:I mean if they are a new unit tyranids would be the first 40k army with two diffrent swarm bases (unless there is something way back in history I do not know about).

IIRC, in 2nd Ed, Orks had Squig Swarms and Snotling Swarms.

Symbio Joe wrote:I do not know what to make of this little green Nids. I mean if they are a new unit tyranids would be the first 40k army with two diffrent swarm bases (unless there is something way back in history I do not know about).

Lifted from 2nd edition "Codex Imperialis"

"...The tyranids are not therefore one creature, but a whole variety of unbelievable monstrosities varying in size from the huge organic spacecraft of the hive fleets to tiny functionary creatures such as the beetle-sized Scatophagoids that digest and recycle waste material in the living respiratory vents of the Tyranid spacecarft."

Scatophagoids aren't big enough to forma swarm, and their function is not combat. It is more likely that they are just a drawing, never to make the codex as a combatant unit. If they appeared in the codex at all, it could be as an upgrade to a monstrous creature. If an MC was hosting scatophagoids, then their bodies would be clear of waste material, giving them maybe +4 charisma?

If they are Scatophagoids, then the artist clearly just lifted the adrenal gland design and made an insect out of it. We can't be sure. However GW artists have historically taken great liberties with Tyranid art anyway, apparently just to make sure that the only players who know exactly what a Tyranid model is, and is armed with are Tyranid players themselves.

Farmer wrote:
Yeah,what from i gather Nids might actually play like a CC army now

Boy wouldn't that be nice...but if they leave the Tyranids with the ability to take a large amount of shooty-units, then perhaps my Tau should be given the ability to be heavily CC oriented in the next Tau Codex...

I don't like the cover. Artistically it has no flow. The carnifex is too centered and drastically takes over the image. The previous codex had a good line of sight down the left side, starting with the carnies head, then the tank, then curving down along the gaunts. On this cover you just look at the carnifex, then you have to almost consciously take in anything else. The composition is just plain awful.

That wouldn't be so bad if the carnifex itself wasn't stubby and mishapen.




As for the contents of the codex itself, it's written by cruddace. Meaning we'll likely get flame template bio plasma back, that stupid web gun, and the harpoon thingy. Hopefully we'll get some forge world overlap too, I want a malenthrope and that giant spore mine in the main book.

Also it'll be inarguably overpowered. Just like the last codex he wrote.

@Shuma: All agreed. Tho at least we won't have to worry about Nidzilla anymore... I think it's safe to say Nidzilla will have it's teeth pulled.

A five page thread on a picture (might even be a mockup/placeholder?) for a future Codex release... is probably just about ready to collapse under its own weight.

Having said that, it does seem to continue the trend of very uninspiring Codex covers...

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Shuma: All agreed. Tho at least we won't have to worry about Nidzilla anymore... I think it's safe to say Nidzilla will have it's teeth pulled.

I doubt it. People like nidzilla, so they're unlikely to pull it from the book as a viable army, especially considering the current trend of "throw it all in". Considering earlier rumors of supercarnifexes representing individual creatures that have fought and evolved over centuries its likely venerable carnifexes will put zilla back into contention.

ShumaGorath wrote:I doubt it. People like nidzilla, so they're unlikely to pull it from the book as a viable army, especially considering the current trend of "throw it all in". Considering earlier rumors of supercarnifexes representing individual creatures that have fought and evolved over centuries its likely venerable carnifexes will put zilla back into contention.

I have a feeling you're right.

Mostly because GW likes the Nids and so won't throw the "You can still do it in Apocalypse" stick.

Platuan4th wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:I doubt it. People like nidzilla, so they're unlikely to pull it from the book as a viable army, especially considering the current trend of "throw it all in". Considering earlier rumors of supercarnifexes representing individual creatures that have fought and evolved over centuries its likely venerable carnifexes will put zilla back into contention.

I have a feeling you're right.

Mostly because GW likes the Nids and so won't throw the "You can still do it in Apocalypse" stick.

They also never needed a 100 page confusidex of special rules to represent. They don't need the chaos treatment because they are a single army, not 14 stuffed into a single book. They've managed to be pretty diverse with only a handful of actual units so far.

I think the rumors involving the conversation with Phil Kelly said something about the new codex allowing armies with lots of medium bugs. I kinda wonder if that'll be the new Nidzilla...lots of Warriors, Ravs, etc. backed by MCs. I'm still not convinced that elite Carnifexes will survive, but if Warriors and Lictors are worth it as rumors state, then it'd still be a pretty compact army.

gorgon wrote:I think the rumors involving the conversation with Phil Kelly said something about the new codex allowing armies with lots of medium bugs. I kinda wonder if that'll be the new Nidzilla...lots of Warriors, Ravs, etc. backed by MCs. I'm still not convinced that elite Carnifexes will survive, but if Warriors and Lictors are worth it as rumors state, then it'd still be a pretty compact army.

Sadly that was my army in the current codex. I sold it a month or two after the marine dex came out to start the sharks. I was very put off by the virtual uselessness of raveners and lictors.

ShumaGorath wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Shuma: All agreed. Tho at least we won't have to worry about Nidzilla anymore... I think it's safe to say Nidzilla will have it's teeth pulled.

I doubt it.

Then how will GW sell loads and loads of new models to existing players?

JohnHwangDD wrote:Then how will GW sell loads and loads of new models to existing players?

Making Stealers Elites again.


I keed, I keed!

JohnHwangDD wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:@Shuma: All agreed. Tho at least we won't have to worry about Nidzilla anymore... I think it's safe to say Nidzilla will have it's teeth pulled.

I doubt it.

Then how will GW sell loads and loads of new models to existing players?

By realizing that their business model is to sell to new customers and people buying new armies, and not try and dupe the vets who have spent their wad and at best are incremental purchasers of new models? Do we really need to get into the GW economic model argument again? Because I'm ready to lay down the knowledge any time.

Really? My hundreds upon hundreds of dollars worth of nerfed models beg to differ.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Really? My hundreds upon hundreds of dollars worth of nerfed models beg to differ.

And the dozens of new players purchasing armies then grinding out of the hobby for every person like you don't care. For every vet getting a codex in an army he already owns there are many, many, casual players, christmas gift kids, and people who start that new army and switch off from an old one. Veterans are not a majority in the hobby, they just stick together.

JohnHwangDD wrote:I think it's safe to say Nidzilla will have it's teeth pulled.

You mean like they did in 5th edition .

Hmm, could they modify NidZilla to require a special HQ character which then allows you to take Elite fexes (and also perhaps has other limitations, e.g. no stealers or no fast attack)? That would be in keeping with recent codexes.

Someone mentioned the all-cc army - I would so love a special character which allows a sensible all-cc army (extra speed or some other stats modification) and excludes all shooty units/biomorphs. If that can be done with proper balance, that would be amazingly fluffy and full of coolness. But I may be dreaming...

Clang wrote:Hmm, could they modify NidZilla to require a special HQ character which then allows you to take Elite fexes (and also perhaps has other limitations, e.g. no stealers or no fast attack)? That would be in keeping with recent codexes.

Someone mentioned the all-cc army - I would so love a special character which allows a sensible all-cc army (extra speed or some other stats modification) and excludes all shooty units/biomorphs. If that can be done with proper balance, that would be amazingly fluffy and full of coolness. But I may be dreaming...

I simply mentioned that my Tau don't have the ability for strong CC units (Kroot are useful only under certain circumstances...and those mostly depend on the terrain of the board!), so I wondered why the Tyranids can make a shooty army, as well as a CC one...

For the most part, tyranids have been a real shooty army with the CC part of the army being more a support role. I can't speak for 2nd, but this was true for 3rd edition and 4rth.

Being only CC is a pain when your big bad MC have to walk across the board...and the extra 3.5" avg you get with run still isn't good. Plus with how resiliant transports are combined with no autopinning of passengers, I am very skeptical of a pure CC army ever being a top tier army.

Carnifexes are going to have to get faster somehow, or we are going to have to reliably stop whatever they are targeting long enough for a Fex to wreck the bejesus out of it. Carnifex close combat is fairly awful right now as it is, so the poor guy needs some fixing before we can consider how to get him where he needs to be first. If they had impact hits or hit multiple models per attack because of their massive scythe claws then they could engage hordes and actually smash through them like they are supposed to be able to do. Furthermore, crushing claws could do something that makes sense, like after one attack hits all the later ones auto-hit or all attacks count as ap1 on the damage tables or something to represent it holding something down and crushing it.

Railguns wrote:Carnifexes are going to have to get faster somehow,

Can they not Run like a Dread or any other non-Flying MC?

They can, and that helped, but they still cannot fleet (which would be me changing my pants, and interesting to model)

An average of 9.5" of movement a turn really isn't that fast for a dedicated assault carni, especially if you can't assault after it. Good luck catching those transports moving 12" away a turn.

Sure, tho 9.5" is the same as what CSM CC Dreads and Wraithlords need to make do with. Now sure, Wraithlords being Eldar should get Fleet, which would help when they finally get within 12", but otherwise not impressive. And the Dreads sometimes go Frenzy and don't move at all.

But then, that's why Nids are going to need (and get) other mobility via DS (Tunneling) Trygon and who knows what else...

I just hope that the image of a bullcharging Carnifex that smashes handfuls of infantry and vehicles aside as it crunches through the enemy formation in a berserk fury is ably represented and not just relegated to wishful thinking like it is now. "Oh! You brought a close combat carnifex? It can't charge if it runs? Okay, I'll just put this speedbump in the way so it can kill 2 models a turn and spend 4-6 turns of the game achieving nothing."

I agree

And I really hope that the Trygon is some sort of tunneling transport type thing, that would be so characterful and awesome game-play.

Railguns wrote:I just hope that the image of a bullcharging Carnifex that smashes handfuls of infantry and vehicles aside as it crunches through the enemy formation in a berserk fury is ably represented and not just relegated to wishful thinking like it is now. "Oh! You brought a close combat carnifex? It can't charge if it runs? Okay, I'll just put this speedbump in the way so it can kill 2 models a turn and spend 4-6 turns of the game achieving nothing."

Well it is a decent tactic to use against them...
And I imagine Space Marine players hope that the imagine of a single Marine killing 10,000+ xenos skum with a hand tied his back will be ably represented...

I could easily see the Carnifex & Trygon gaining Tank Shock ability.

Hmm, maybe elite Carnifexes could be Fleet and have cc weapons only? That would be amusing, but Zilla players with 6 shooty fexes wouldn't be impressed, I suppose.

Or elite Carnifexes could Deepstrike (fluffwise, bursting out of the ground)?

Pure wishful thinking of course, I'm sure any such decisions have been made. But I'm really really hoping to see useful cc fexes. And yes, letting them tank shock would be cool.

And I imagine Space Marine players hope that the imagine of a single Marine killing 10,000+ xenos skum with a hand tied his back will be ably represented...

No Retreat + synapse takes care of that just fine. Any other requests?

Make Carnifexes T8 base and give 'em fleet and then we'll see them doing something useful in HTH.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Don't be ridiculous.

i agree i haet it when there are are optional lists why cant i take noise marines in my death guard army while still geting my death guard army bonuses pete haines forces you to pick a traitor legion instaed of jsut playing black legion and using whatever units i watn
why do they pigeonhole the legions into organizing like the legions anyway that makes no sense???


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the subject of Tyranids I am looking forward to the trygon more than anything. Swarms being buffed is also great as that's basically the Tyranid fluff focus.

Railguns wrote:I just hope that the image of a bullcharging Carnifex that smashes handfuls of infantry and vehicles aside as it crunches through the enemy formation in a berserk fury is ably represented and not just relegated to wishful thinking like it is now. "Oh! You brought a close combat carnifex? It can't charge if it runs? Okay, I'll just put this speedbump in the way so it can kill 2 models a turn and spend 4-6 turns of the game achieving nothing."

They don't need speed bumps. They just start off the back board and wait the 3 turns it takes the carnifex to "run" across the board. Then they hop in a transport and leave the carnifex in the dust. This is why shooty fex has been the optimum build.

The current SM Dreadnought favorite build is one with a MM and a HF that drop pods into the midst of the enemy. So we are talking about a Shooty dreadnought that can deepstrike. I expect Chaos Dreads to get the same treatment in the next dex. From what I have seen, players tend to rely more on the shooty aspect for walkers whether they be Wraithlords or Dreads due to them moving slowly.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Make Carnifexes T8 base and give 'em fleet and then we'll see them doing something useful in HTH.

Yeah, this sounds good. T8 Carnifex would be a lot better in HTH, and more importantly is less likely to get killed before it realises it's time to attack. >_>

I'd also like to see Trygons able to Deep Strike with Ravener Broods (to represent tunneling out of the ground), and the Lictor's Secret Deployment rule to be overhauled (which, by the sounds of things is going to happen anyway).

I wouldn't mind seeing Raveners beefed up to S5 too, they seem pretty mediocre currently. Warrior BS needs increasing (2 is a joke; I think a Termagant has higher BS?). I know biomorphs can cover those, but really I think Warriors should be BS3 base (with the option to take Enhanced Senses to increase it to 4 for a hefty points cost).

Mind, all this is coming from someone who hasn't played 'Nids since 3rd Edition rulebook. I am going to restart collecting them though- I just don't know if it's viable to buy anything now, or wait for the Codex.

As far as models go:
I'd love to see a new Hive Tyrant- I'm not a fan of the current one. Gargoyles NEED to be a plastic kit (or at the very least a good metal kit), and plastic Raveners would be a good idea too.

Looking back on my old 'Nids army, it's kinda funny. I had most of my old Raveners with Warrior heads, and then the newer Ravener kit did that anyway

Trust me I know all about Carnifexes needing to waddle all the way across the board to be left in the dust by everyone else's mech armies. If they don't decide to just melta or plasma the poor, intellectually stunted thing and put it out of its misery and bag a nice 113-150 point monstrous creature.

Neith wrote:I'd also like to see Trygons able to Deep Strike with Ravener Broods (to represent tunneling out of the ground)

They can do that currently. I'm betting Arby will take it away if the Trygon makes it in the book in the interest of "fair play" or something.

Railguns wrote:Trust me I know all about Carnifexes needing to waddle all the way across the board to be left in the dust by everyone else's mech armies. If they don't decide to just melta or plasma the poor, intellectually stunted thing and put it out of its misery and bag a nice 113-150 point monstrous creature.

This is true, except for armies that have transports that lack firing slots for their transports (Tau)...and for those that argue that Nidzilla is so terribly unplayable....good! A much more viable tactic is to run the Carnifex with some Genestealers or Gaunts in front, that can help catch the faster enemies.

Platuan4th wrote:

Neith wrote:I'd also like to see Trygons able to Deep Strike with Ravener Broods (to represent tunneling out of the ground)

They can do that currently. I'm betting Arby will take it away if the Trygon makes it in the book in the interest of "fair play" or something.

Ah, I wasn't aware of that. Hopefully it'll make it into the Codex, but it wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't.

Che-Vito wrote:
This is true, except for armies that have transports that lack firing slots for their transports (Tau)...and for those that argue that Nidzilla is so terribly unplayable....good! A much more viable tactic is to run the Carnifex with some Genestealers or Gaunts in front, that can help catch the faster enemies.

Now that everything can run, Genestealers and Gaunts aren't really any faster than anything else. Also, I'd hardly call screening a 113+ point model with fragile 16+ point models a "viable tactic." It's scenarios like these that make it obvious why Nids are getting redone before Necrons and DE and all the rest; 5th edition rules straight massacred them. The fact that all of the recent codices have been trending towards larger armies full of cheap troops and transports is just another kick in the teeth. Nidzilla isn't unplayable, but it's pretty much the only way you can hope to win a game. Even with a big army of badass Carnifexes, though, you can expect to get many of them melted before they can do more than squeeze off a few barbed strangler shots.

I'm really hoping Raveners can attack off Deep Strike. That's really the only thing that's going to make them usable, outside of dramatically redoing their stat line. Lictor fixes are also high on my wishlist. Someone suggested that they basically assault as though they had 3rd edition rules (i.e., your opponent doesn't pile in), and that makes perfect sense from both fluff and functional standpoints. I know it's unwise to get my hopes up, but it's hard not to. Nids can't be too much worse than they currently are, right?

MilkmanAl wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:
This is true, except for armies that have transports that lack firing slots for their transports (Tau)...and for those that argue that Nidzilla is so terribly unplayable....good! A much more viable tactic is to run the Carnifex with some Genestealers or Gaunts in front, that can help catch the faster enemies.

Now that everything can run, Genestealers and Gaunts aren't really any faster than anything else. Also, I'd hardly call screening a 113+ point model with fragile 16+ point models a "viable tactic." It's scenarios like these that make it obvious why Nids are getting redone before Necrons and DE and all the rest; 5th edition rules straight massacred them. The fact that all of the recent codices have been trending towards larger armies full of cheap troops and transports is just another kick in the teeth. Nidzilla isn't unplayable, but it's pretty much the only way you can hope to win a game. Even with a big army of badass Carnifexes, though, you can expect to get many of them melted before they can do more than squeeze off a few barbed strangler shots.

I'm really hoping Raveners can attack off Deep Strike. That's really the only thing that's going to make them usable, outside of dramatically redoing their stat line. Lictor fixes are also high on my wishlist. Someone suggested that they basically assault as though they had 3rd edition rules (i.e., your opponent doesn't pile in), and that makes perfect sense from both fluff and functional standpoints. I know it's unwise to get my hopes up, but it's hard not to. Nids can't be too much worse than they currently are, right?

Outflanking Genestealers, deepstriking Lictors that can tie up units, and tons of large units that can provide cover for Carnifexes....Tyranids are absolutely still competitive...(I won't deny that they need tweaks and changes, as do many 3rd/4th edition armies).

Carnifexes have to have 50% of the model completely hidden from view in order for it to be granted cover. That said, I have a hard time believing that guants and stealers are bulky enough to hide TMC behind. The only models large enough to provide cover for TMC are warriors and Tyrant guard and to do so, you have to pack them together to form a wall...which makes you vulnerable to blast weapons.

As for outflanking genestealers, Space Mech armies have an answer to that...a 35 point rhino. I see it happen too often where the stealers out flank and pop a rhino only to have the squad easily make thier LDR 8 check and then unload into the exposed stealers. Trading a 200+ stealer squad for a 35 point rhino is a win-win situation for mech.

I want crushing claws to have their separate +d6 attacks , without removing their profile attacks.

I also find the stats for movement + number of attacks for dreds and monstrous creatures abit off.

Surely large creature takes larger strides / steps then a small human?
surely a sweep / a swing from large creature can hit multiple targets at once?

When was the last time you successfully distracted a unit with a Lictor? Lictors die in, at most, 2 rounds of close combat thanks to piling in, 4 toughness, and a 5+ save. I wouldn't call that particularly helpful in the tying up department, especially since it costs you 80 points. Let's not even get into how stupid it is that Lictors have to roll on the Deep Strike Mishap table just to deploy.

Genestealers are definitely awesome in close combat, but it doesn't take unearthly skill to avoid outflanking units for a turn. Given how fragile they are, any focused firepower is going to shred them. If you can manage to get too many Stealers within threat range, you're golden for a little bit, but chances are you had to eat 2 units just to get that 1 into combat.

By "tons of large units," you mean...Warriors? Tyrants with Guard? Those are the only decent units capable of screening Carnifexes that Tyranids have. Granted, Warriors with wound allocation abuse make a decent screen, but T4 with a 4+ save doesn't really go that far. Tyrant Guard are sexy, but, like everything else, they're super slow and don't really do anything besides take fire (which, admittedly, they do quite well).

I think just about everyone can agree that Hive Tyrants, Carnifexes, and Genestealers are awesome. Warriors with deathspitters are also pretty cool, even though they're considerably more expensive than they should be. Everything else needs a whole lot of work to be marginally useful. Even those units need some fine tuning. (Why can a 10-man Guardsmen unit tie up a Carnifex for an entire game? That's ridiculous.)

I'm not going to get deep into how badly Tyranids cope with vehicles and the meta-game in general, but when the best anti-vehicle weapon you have is S8 and costs at least 113 points, you know there's a problem.

Basically, I completely disagree that Tyranids are competitive. They can be functional to above average when using one particular list, but they're not competitive at all. In terms of game play, we're stuck with an even more severe version of the Chaos codex. Only a handful of units are even worth considering, and you have to field one specific type of list to have a chance, in most scenarios. At least Chaos's main option is actually powerful. Ours isn't.

wyomingfox wrote:Carnifexes have to have 50% of the model completely hidden from view in order for it to be granted cover. That said, I have a hard time believing that guants and stealers are bulky enough to hide TMC behind. The only models large enough to provide cover for TMC are warriors and Tyrant guard and to do so, you have to pack them together to form a wall...which makes you vulnerable to blast weapons.

As for outflanking genestealers, Space Mech armies have an answer to that...a 35 point rhino. I see it happen too often where the stealers out flank and pop a rhino only to have the squad easily make thier LDR 8 check and then unload into the exposed stealers. Trading a 200+ stealer squad for a 35 point rhino is a win-win situation for mech.

The cover depends on who you play against. I've had players argue that their Carnifex gets cover from a swarm of Genestealers, but regardless...

Yes, the Space Marines have an answer...sort of. Those Marines unload, and get the crap chewed out of them by Rending Stealers...and in most games, opponents can't afford to put 200+ points on each flank, just to watch for Outflankers.

5th Edition crippled the ability for assaulting units to consolidate into another assault...but it did give the ability to run to all units. I'd say the thought that assaulting armies have been nerfed by 5th is quite moot...looking at tournament results...Tyranids are still QUITE competitive.

Upgrade/tweak, but no codex creep.

Which tournaments would those be? Nids got manhandled in 'Ard Boyz, as far as I'm aware. I haven't seen any RTT results, I don't think.

I'll relent a little on my earlier statements and note that Tyranids peak around the 1500 point mark where they're okay-ish. After you max out on MC's, though, it's all downhill. Still, you're forced into a MC-heavy list because everything else is crap. That's not right at all.

A few points:

MC have to be 50% covered to get the save. It's in the rulebook.

Most Tyranid tournament armies you see are still of the Nidzilla-y variety, which aren't assault armies.

Outflanking 'stealers really aren't that hard to deal with.

Lictors are terrible (in the "bad" sense of the word).

Ignore him, he played against Nids for the first time four months ago. He has no idea how far they fell since 4th.

I'm not sure what this agruement over how decent nids are at playing is on the forum new nids codex cover but whatever this is dakka. Nids do need their speed back, and other winning list that aren't TMC spams my friends are getting mad at me for only using nidzilla, but like stated b4 it's the only way to be remotely compeditive.

While tyranids definitely need some help, this thread is wishlisty as all hell. Toughness 8 fleeting deep striking carnifexes with +d6 attacks from crushing claws? For less? Really? Really?

The carnifex doesn't need to get better. It's overly tough for 130 points. No comparable unit in points and role has the same ability to shrug off damage. What it needs is a better core to surround it. Who cares if they pour fire into the carnifex when you have another 1600 points of good termagaunts and hormugaunts backing them up? Why can't they make it to combat when useful lictors and raveners are tying up their long range support? When cost effective genestealers are dicing up their closerange firepower units?

The carnifex is the elephant in the room that doesn't need fixing. It's just the giant dangerous target surrounded by useless stacks of things that can be ignored too easily.

ShumaGorath wrote:While tyranids definitely need some help, this thread is wishlisty as all hell

And this suprises you...because

wyomingfox wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:While tyranids definitely need some help, this thread is wishlisty as all hell

And this suprises you...because

Just an observation. Certainly doesn't surprise me at all.

ShumaGorath wrote:The carnifex is the elephant in the room that doesn't need fixing.

It would be easier to agree with this statement IF they provide a viable means of destroying transports that does not involve CC. Attacking transports in 5th is bad...unless you enjoy passengers owning you during thier upcoming turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Che-Vito wrote:Yes, the Space Marines have an answer...sort of. Those Marines unload...

...and shoot the Rending Stealers off the board (at least that has been my experience )

and in most games, opponents can't afford to put 200+ points on each flank, just to watch for Outflankers.

If they are pawning 200 pt stealer squads... they can

Platuan4th wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Then how will GW sell loads and loads of new models to existing players?

Making Stealers Elites again.


I keed, I keed!

Genestealers have never been Elites in an official Tyranids codex.

What are YOU smoking?

Che-Vito wrote:Outflanking Genestealers, deepstriking Lictors that can tie up units, and tons of large units that can provide cover for Carnifexes....Tyranids are absolutely still competitive...(I won't deny that they need tweaks and changes, as do many 3rd/4th edition armies).

Wait, did you just call Lictors competitive?



This thread is apparently filled to the brim with ignorant Imperial players.

LunaHound wrote:Surely large creature takes larger strides / steps then a small human?

surely a sweep / a swing from large creature can hit multiple targets at once?

Does big stupid Elephant outrun a Cheetah? Or a Giraffe?

No.

Big isn't fast, just big.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Does big stupid Elephant outrun a Cheetah? Or a Giraffe?

No.

Big isn't fast, just big.

Both a Cheetah and a Giraffe are far, far faster than a man and would prolly be beasts. Is an elephant faster than a man? Ohhhh yeah.

Big isn't fast, just faster than you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShumaGorath wrote:While tyranids definitely need some help, this thread is wishlisty as all hell. Toughness 8 fleeting deep striking carnifexes with +d6 attacks from crushing claws? For less? Really? Really?

I don't think anyone proposed all those changes together. I understand that some people are bitter about them not getting their codex redone, but why do some people feel the need to come in this thread and piss all over the Tyranid parade?

RustyKnight wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Does big stupid Elephant outrun a Cheetah? Or a Giraffe?

No.

Big isn't fast, just big.

Both a Cheetah and a Giraffe are far, far faster than a man and would prolly be beasts. Is an elephant faster than a man? Ohhhh yeah.

Big isn't fast, just faster than you.

the danger of the internet is that people can check facts on you rather easily.

Elephants top speed is a mere 25 MPH. Less than the human top speed of 29 mph. Elephants achieve this speed on four legs.

Carnifex are science fiction super monsters, maybe they can run 60mph. It doens't matter. The movement phase does ot represent top speed, it represents the speed things tend to move while observing their surroundings and keeping their weapon ready to fire. Big monsters with massive long guns likely tread carefully, while scanning the area for something to shoot.

I don't think anyone proposed all those changes together. I understand that some people are bitter about them not getting their codex redone, but why do some people feel the need to come in this thread and piss all over the Tyranid parade?

Because there's a difference between constructive and interesting ideas and wishlisting. I played tyranids starting when their 4th ed codex came out and ending 2 months after the marine 5th ed came out. The carnifexes were never the problem.

Also why do people keep quoting that first sentence and ignoring the body?

Both a Cheetah and a Giraffe are far, far faster than a man and would prolly be beasts. Is an elephant faster than a man? Ohhhh yeah.

Big isn't fast, just faster than you.

Bipedal locomotion in the way we do it is pretty awful for moving quickly over terrain that is the least bit flat. The carnifex is bipedal. So are all walkers, wraithlords, and almost everything else with the monstrous creature or walker rules. They also have considerably more bulk. They should move faster than a human is capable, but then so should every single vehicle in the game. It doesn't scale that way and theres no way they can move at the speed of a land vehicle on flat ground.

Broken Loose wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Then how will GW sell loads and loads of new models to existing players?

Making Stealers Elites again.


I keed, I keed!

Genestealers have never been Elites in an official Tyranids codex.

What are YOU smoking?

Not in a CODEX, no, but they were Elites in the 3rd edition BBB list.

Platuan4th wrote:

Broken Loose wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Then how will GW sell loads and loads of new models to existing players?

Making Stealers Elites again.


I keed, I keed!

Genestealers have never been Elites in an official Tyranids codex.

What are YOU smoking?

Not in a CODEX, no, but they were Elites in the 3rd edition BBB list.

I'd be okay with them moving to elites if they got their power weapons back. Heck, I'd pack up their boxes and load their trucks.

I'd also be okay with the move if Broodlords had a "Genestealers may count as Troops" option. Can you imagine the Stealershock possibilities with 9 FOC slots available to them? I think we can expect a decent (2-3 point) drop in Stealers' base cost, so that would be a very intriguing army.

avantgarde wrote:Ignore him, he played against Nids for the first time four months ago. He has no idea how far they fell since 4th.

Well comparing every piece of Tyranid related printing that exists, (which I happen to own), and looking at the new rules for 5th Edition, I can say with confidence that Tyranids don't need some huge uber killer Carnifex to win games for them. Hell, I hope they keep the Carnifex the same or nerf it, and upgrade the units around it to help kill off Nidzilla...not because it's unbeatable, but because it takes very little creativity to play, and gets old to play against!

I'd like to see some more interesting lists from Tyranid players, and ones that can competitively use the idea of a Tyranid swarm...in common use!

Shep wrote:

RustyKnight wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Does big stupid Elephant outrun a Cheetah? Or a Giraffe?

No.

Big isn't fast, just big.

Both a Cheetah and a Giraffe are far, far faster than a man and would prolly be beasts. Is an elephant faster than a man? Ohhhh yeah.

Big isn't fast, just faster than you.

Elephants top speed is a mere 25 MPH. Less than the human top speed of 29 mph. Elephants achieve this speed on four legs.

Carnifex are science fiction super monsters, maybe they can run 60mph. It doens't matter. The movement phase does ot represent top speed, it represents the speed things tend to move while observing their surroundings and keeping their weapon ready to fire. Big monsters with massive long guns likely tread carefully, while scanning the area for something to shoot.

Yup. Tho if we were modeling this via rules, and taking their Init into account, then Carnifex would be best served by making them Slow and Purposeful.

Shep wrote: the danger of the internet is that people can check facts on you rather easily.

Hmm, I was wrong. I assumed that elephants ran faster than people, my mistake. I suppose I should have been disingenous and compared an elephant to the slowest land animal.

Shep wrote:The movement phase does ot represent top speed, it represents the speed things tend to move while observing their surroundings and keeping their weapon ready to fire. Big monsters with massive long guns likely tread carefully, while scanning the area for something to shoot.

I understand. I also never picture giant psycho killer bugs as being the slow and cautious type. Especially not when they have no guns. Of course, in order to represent that, they would have to do it for all mindless psychopaths.

ShumaGorath wrote:
Also why do people keep quoting that first sentence and ignoring the body?

Nothing was wrong in the body. That opening line was a problem.

Shep wrote:Elephants top speed is a mere 25 MPH. Less than the human top speed of 29 mph. Elephants achieve this speed on four legs.

Monty Python wrote:
Bridgekeeper: What... is the [land]-speed velocity of an unladen [elephant]?
Arthur: What do you mean? An African or European [elephant]?

To be fair though Shep, is that the average top speed of elephants vs. the average top speed of humans, or is that the average top speed of elephant vs an atypical top speed of humans. (I know the answer and on average an elephant can run faster than a human)

The real point is that we are arguing about "fantastical" fictional beings.

I reckon that carnis should have their toughness raised to about 8 OR get fleet. I think they may be a little overpowered otherwise, unless of course the points goes up for those upgrades. Inwhich case i could manage.

Elephants are more of an endurance animal, they aren't made to chase down those dodgy bushes and trees. They can keep going for hundreds of miles though.

What I would like to see, in terms of A.T., is viable bio-acid spore mine broods. Say, 10pt per mine, 1-3 mines per brood, 1-3 broods per slot on the Force Org chart. Mines would be S6, Ap3 small blasts that roll 2d6 for armour penetration. The concept of liveing bombs just seems a bit more natural that organic A.T. guns.

Platuan4th wrote:Not in a CODEX, no, but they were Elites in the 3rd edition BBB list.

Nope. They were troops, 22 points each, and their CC attacks ignored armor saves. Page 191 if you want to look it up.

Railguns wrote:Elephants are more of an endurance animal, they aren't made to chase down those dodgy bushes and trees. They can keep going for hundreds of miles though.

Elephants are also more renowned to not truly "run" or "gallop" which has been a mystery to Scientists, they make 25 mph on the same gait they use for walking.

http://whyfiles.org/shorties/128elephant_run/

Now a killer space Dino who is literally bred for combat with talons, I would think the Hive Mind would solve the "speed" issue.

Im not a fan of the new codex cover...