If GIs had come across this girl in WWII, they'd have called the docs saying they had another concentration camp victim. Seriously, as a father how do I protect or strengthen my daughter and her friends against this sick sick bull t?
"Super models" make me sick. I agree, if that becomes an issue. Show your child pictures of concentration camp victims, and compare those. They will make the connection that, that is just wrong.
On a funny note tho, a family friend calls women like that rib poppers. Ya just slide it in until they start popping, then you know your there
KingCracker wrote:"Super models" make me sick. I agree, if that becomes an issue. Show your child pictures of concentration camp victims, and compare those. They will make the connection that, that is just wrong.
On a funny note tho, a family friend calls women like that rib poppers. Ya just slide it in until they start popping, then you know your there
Easily one of the most unerotic pics Ive seen to date.
Saw an interesting debate recently on the fashion desginers vs the fashion medias editors.
Both claimed innosence in the propagation of these images.
The designers claimed the fashion editors wanted skinny models since that was "in vogue" and sold mags.
The editors claimed the designers were making deliberately "skinny" clothes and setting these fashion trends.
Both at fault imo, just another example of media and commercialism gone to perverted lenghts.
I'm a bit confused.. Is that a photoshopped picture? The article seems to indicate that the model was altered.
Two issues come to light for me.
1) If the model is real, it is unrealistic to make young girls think that this is what's pretty, or that you have to look this way to be "pretty"
2) Adding to #1, if the picture was photoshopped to make the model look more emaciated(by increasing the head size), then that is even more of a shame, because your taking something that isn't even real and passing it off as though it is real.
It's kind of the same gripe, except the second scenerio seems more sinister to me.
Well, it is the same way all eyelash products are shot with lash inserts and are enhanced in post production (it usually tells you in really small writing at the bottom of the add).
The actual products don't do what they show because what the adverts show is not actually real... it has all been altered and changed.
There is a huge industry in photo manipulation for the glamour industry. Everything is manipulated, from tucking in curves that are "in the wrong place" to changing colourss of makeup, adding makeup, taking it away, changing poses, etc.
Whatever they think will be more effective for selling their crud.
Frazz - no advice. Mine is only 4, so I have a few years before this is an issue. I think you just have to promote the idea of a healthy body, and point out that this isn't a healthy body. Also, it's someone that is making a living based on their body type, and it's not normal. It's no different than a male bodybuilder. There's a few people with that body type, but it's certainly not considered normal.
As most of my mates will agree I am not a fussy man when it comes to the opposite sex, but that photo has made me feel quite sick.
People are simply not meant to be that thin, the damage this must be doing to her internal organs will seriously shorten her lifespan and ruin any chance she has of having children.
For the love of god and your own health, woman eat some pies!
However it poses the question asked by GeneralGrog.
Automatically Appended Next Post: There was a near riot at a fashion show in London a couple of weeks ago because the designer used size 12 and 14 women.
That looks more like naff photoshopping to me. The girls face looks perfectly healthy, no sunken cheeks or anything else indicating malnourishment and it's totally out of proportion with the rest of the body. God knows why they took what was almost certainly a picture of a very beautiful young lady and turned her into somone who looks ill.
What I don't understand is, in who's eyes exactly is ultra thin attractive? Because it’s certainly not attractive in men’s eye’s.
Seriously, pick up any ‘mens’ magazine and look at the girls modelling for the delectation of we lucky blokes. They generally will be curvy, with well defined hips, breasts and backsides. They will usually be slim too, but there is nothing wrong with that and it shouldn’t be confused with the ultra thin obsession that the fashion industry has. Strange.
LuciusAR wrote:That looks more like naff photoshopping to me. The girls face looks perfectly healthy, no sunken cheeks or anything else indicating malnourishment and it's totally out of proportion with the rest of the body. God knows why they took what was almost certainly a picture of a very beautiful young lady and turned her into somone who looks ill.
What I don't understand is, in who's eyes exactly is ultra thin attractive? Because it’s certainly not attractive in men’s eye’s.
Seriously, pick up any ‘mens’ magazine and look at the girls modelling for the delectation of we lucky blokes. They generally will be curvy, with well defined hips, breasts and backsides. They will usually be slim too, but there is nothing wrong with that and it shouldn’t be confused with the ultra thin obsession that the fashion industry has. Strange.
Who designs clothing?
Who peddles clothing?
Who markets clothing?
That first picture is just unsettling to look at. Even cartoon characters like on the family guy, who all have way big heads are not that skinny. There should be a fashion industry overwatch Czar to keep this sort of thing from happening. I mean, why not, the government is trying to control everything, they could at least get one thing right for a change.
Well, fashion, in general, isn't aimed at heterosexual men. I enjoy looking at women a great deal, but I don't do so through fashion shoots. Therefore, they don't need to worry about attracting or pleasing straight guys.
Instead, it comes down to a status symbol: how thin can you become. Women generally don't go nuts about how they look to please men, men are easy. They do it to win status among other women.
However its not just chicks with body image issues; nowadays guys are trying to get as ripped as Spartans and juicing is more prevalent than ever before.
Just look at what happened to Carrot Top, he's going to look like a Catachan soon:
Tell her she is pretty to build her self image and also not focusing on appearance as the end-all-be-all to self esteem. When you comment on woman you are attracted to, make sure they are not ridiculously skinny woman. I know it is not normally acceptable to comment on woman around your daughter but the truth is, young daughters look to their fathers first to help them decide what is and is not sexually appealing, it is a fact. So tasteful comments are good. But I would assume you'd know all this already.
If none of this works, subjugating Asia should take her mind off of her potentially poor self image.
BTW I am a single father have a 16yo daughter. This has worked for me, thus far.
GoFenris wrote:Tell her she is pretty to build her self image and also not focusing on appearance as the end-all-be-all to self esteem. When you comment on woman you are attracted to, make sure they are not ridiculously skinny woman. I know it is not normally acceptable to comment on woman around your daughter but the truth is, young daughters look to their fathers first to help them decide what is and is not sexually appealing, it is a fact. So tasteful comments are good. But I would assume you'd know all this already.
If none of this works, subjugating Asia should take her mind off of her potentially poor self image.
BTW I am a single father have a 16yo daughter. This has worked for me, thus far.
I hadn't thought of that. I will consult with SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED on that as well, lest I end up, you know, ventilated...
And of course, subjugating Asia does work wonders. You should have seen her last week, jumping about the neighborhood.
Meh, the flip side of the coin here is that skinny women catch tons of crap from the flabbier ones. My Mom, sister, and gf are all size zeros and fat women can be straight up NASTY to them. They just assume skinny women have body image issues and are jerks or sluts. That's stupid. People say size 0-2 isn't healthy, but it is a hell of a lot more healthy than a size 16-20. People (women included) evolved to be opportunistic scavengers and predators. Look all the other animals that occupy that niche. How many of them are carrying around loads of adipose tissue?
I think the ultra skinny model fads gone by already. This is certainly a bit extreme, but a few years back we were hearing "outrages" like this several times a day (Remember Alley Mcbiel?).
Silverthorne wrote:Meh, the flip side of the coin here is that skinny women catch tons of crap from the flabbier ones. My Mom, sister, and gf are all size zeros and fat women can be straight up NASTY to them. They just assume skinny women have body image issues and are jerks or sluts. That's stupid. People say size 0-2 isn't healthy, but it is a hell of a lot more healthy than a size 16-20. People (women included) evolved to be opportunistic scavengers and predators. Look all the other animals that occupy that niche. How many of them are carrying around loads of adipose tissue?
While I understand where you are coming from it is unfair to say anyone is nasty to anyone else 'just because'. We are all nasty to others for various reasons.
The issue, as Frazz has stated, is an unfair and unrealistic view caused by the media of what is and is not attractive. The average woman is neither skinny nor fat. She is average and different people have different body shapes however the media too often likes to imply that a certain type of shape (usually much too skinny) is the only acceptable one.
Most people's bodies, with a proper diet, will assume the shape appropriate for them, whether skinny, average or bodacious/husky.
I recall a photo one of my professors had on his door that compared pictures of Holocaust victims to super models, which were eerily similar, and decried the standards of beauty as harmful, both physically and psychologically.
Models are intended to beautiful in the same sense that art is intended to be beautiful. They're basically canvas for the designer.
Sexy is whatever your particular perversion makes it, and that may allign with beauty, but it doesn't have to.
Tell your daughter the first part and it might help. Obviously when opportunity presents itself, no one likes 'the talk'. One of my exs got that from her dad, and her response (as she recalled) was something like "I don't want to be canvas".
dogma wrote:There's a difference between 'beauty' and 'sexy'.
Models are intended to beautiful in the same sense that art is intended to be beautiful. They're basically canvas for the designer.
Sexy is whatever your particular perversion makes it, and that may allign with beauty, but it doesn't have to.
Tell your daughter the first part and it might help. Obviously when opportunity presents itself, no one likes 'the talk'. One of my exs got that from her dad, and her response (as she recalled) was something like "I don't want to be canvas".
Would you be my canvas? I'm thinking of a watercolor landscape. With dinosaurs.
While I agree it doesn't change that the images presented, more like bombarded, with in mass media is pushing the former. It creates unrealistic visual associations for both male and females.
Just a word of caution - you may want to consider the age and maturity of your children before subjecting them to images of torture etc from concentration camps.
Maybe she isnt skinny but her clothes are really tight.
But rather then stay here and complain why not actually do somthing? If you want you do something about with your doughter(srry cant get my words right forgive me)
i hear dove does self-esteem workshops for youg girls.
but we already know that, if i were you id not even bother talking to her about it, unless she raises the issue or it is made evident that these are her role models...
Ahtman wrote:
Would you be my canvas? I'm thinking of a watercolor landscape. With dinosaurs.
Only if you dress up like Bob Ross.
Ahtman wrote:
While I agree it doesn't change that the images presented, more like bombarded, with in mass media is pushing the former. It creates unrealistic visual associations for both male and females.
How sad that that is what Ralph Lauren thinks we find desirable. Or anyone for that matter.
Of course the photo is a very edited as your hips are not smaller than your head (barring some wacky malady), and the angle of the rib cage is wrong.
Anyways, to all those dads (including me) who have daughters, all we can do is tell them what is healthy and whats not. And if they are skinny and healthy or large and healthy, we love them either way.
In the age of shoops, you should probably tell them what's possible and not as well.
You usually don't look at someone with a thin waist, giant elbows, stringy muscles, and a gaunt face and think they're healthy; despite all the fear going around about 'body image', there's an instinctual aversion to skeletism.
When you have someone with an absurdly thin waist who is otherwise healthy(ish) and attractive, then you're going to get into problems if the reader isn't familiar with the editing process the photos go through. Seeing a picture of someone doesn't really imply that the person is healthy, but it does seem to imply that they exist.
Silverthorne wrote:Meh, the flip side of the coin here is that skinny women catch tons of crap from the flabbier ones. My Mom, sister, and gf are all size zeros and fat women can be straight up NASTY to them. They just assume skinny women have body image issues and are jerks or sluts. That's stupid. People say size 0-2 isn't healthy, but it is a hell of a lot more healthy than a size 16-20. People (women included) evolved to be opportunistic scavengers and predators. Look all the other animals that occupy that niche. How many of them are carrying around loads of adipose tissue?
LOL!!! dosen't matter what size you are, all women will be nasty to you if you are another women, I'm a size 12. Skinny girls will make comments about me being fat, Fatter girls will make comments about me being to skinny....It's just how it is. I don't give a flying what any of them think...I've never been turned down yet so there is something good about it No matter the size someone will pick fault with you, a short sharp smack to the mouth followed by "shup bish" works wonders.
I suppose that they could have actually made this image just to get their name about... one of those "any publicity is good publicity" campaigns.
They may grab headlines in a couple of months by leading the charge against the established use of ultra thin people and post production alteration of images by the fashion industry and thus heralded as a great company.
That is my thought on the matter anyway. I can't really understand how they could think the image is acceptable or conforms to any standard of beauty otherwise...
Roze wrote:
LOL!!! dosen't matter what size you are, all women will be nasty to you if you are another women...
For example:
Roze wrote:I hate that some 17 year old peice of ass has flutter her eyelashes, shook her arse and practiacally destroyed a clan on 30 people! (being the only other girl she never botherd me!) but it's like listening to a bunch or 13 year old hormonal boys! i cant decide if i hate her or if i hate the guys for acting so STUPID!!! your all over 25, at least half of you are married!! What does it matter is she flirts with everything that knows how to type! STOP BEING A BUNCH OF NOOOOBS!!! *Rage*
Wrexasaur wrote:This thread needs more curves... cushion for the pushin', and REALITY CHECK!!! Oh... burger time.
Thankyou for saving this thread from fail.
I remember my Chinese teacher from Beijing who complained about being fat and needing to get thinner (note: she had a pretty average body but was REALLY nice, several of us agreed we'd be gunning for her if she wasn't married). She said she always looked at Hollywood stars and models and they are all thin. I of course quickly corrected her.
"Look, guys don't actually find that attractive. In fact, it totally baffles us where they even get the idea. You wanna see what kind of body men like? Watch some porn, especially the standard gonzo flicks."
Not really useful advice for guys with daughters though, as you probably don't want them growing up idolizing Nautica Thorn and Gianna Michaels.
Roze wrote:
LOL!!! dosen't matter what size you are, all women will be nasty to you if you are another women...
For example:
Roze wrote:I hate that some 17 year old peice of ass has flutter her eyelashes, shook her arse and practiacally destroyed a clan on 30 people! (being the only other girl she never botherd me!) but it's like listening to a bunch or 13 year old hormonal boys! i cant decide if i hate her or if i hate the guys for acting so STUPID!!! your all over 25, at least half of you are married!! What does it matter is she flirts with everything that knows how to type! STOP BEING A BUNCH OF NOOOOBS!!! *Rage*
LOL i didnt pick fault with how she looks! Although i feel quite justified in being mean to her She arranged to meet one of the clan guys and then brought he dad along to "teach him a lesson" thats entrapment
I have seen posts on other sites saying they love stick thin girls and also denial denial of the the holocaust. One site claimed there was only 200,0000 killed. Noone should be denied food in this day and age, the worst part is Africa can feed itself if given the proper infrastructure, but racial intolerism is so bad (sorry think there is a typo there somewhere) Why the hell can't the Old world help the new world out for all our mutual benefit.
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:
Frazz, if you're daughter every thinks that is good, give me fifteen seconds with a frying pan to straighten her out.....
Just saying.
Penis analogy? how do you mean i am a chef so i can give a girl a great time with 2 leaves of basil and some parsley!! but seriously, if the girl is anorexic use things like poridge oats, soups etc to build the strngthe up and then move onto more solid food
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:Frazz, if you're daughter every thinks that is good, give me fifteen seconds with a frying pan to straighten her out.....
Just saying.
We actually talked with her about it this morning andwill continue to do so.
And I know you mean well so I'll assume the frying pan comment meant you'd cook some awesome food that would take care of the problem.
Golden Eyed Scout wrote:Frazz, if you're daughter every thinks that is good, give me fifteen seconds with a frying pan to straighten her out.....
Just saying.
And I know you mean well so I'll assume the frying pan comment meant you'd cook some awesome food that would take care of the problem.
That's what I was thinking: Farmer's breakfast of sausage patty, biscuit & gravy; sausage links & bacon, 3 egg omelet, short stack of pancakes, and potatoes to finish it off...
Yum!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
garret wrote:will i get shot if i say she is hawt?
I'm worried about this now and my daughter has only just turned two today. Most models are very tall - Jodie Kidd is 6' 4" - and my daughter is already over 3' tall which is ludicrously tall for her age. She isn't skinny, she's the correct weight for her height but I do worry. I don't want her getting into the business whatsoever.
Well you can teach her good values tell her the truth you can do everything you can but as soon she turns 18 or whatever the age is in other countries its all up to her.
c) Offer nourishing soup and sandwiches to your models
WIN!!
Wrexasaur wrote:This thread needs more curves... cushion for the pushin', and REALITY CHECK!!! Oh... burger time.
Again WIN!! Curves = attractive.
Roze wrote:LOL!!! dosen't matter what size you are, all women will be nasty to you if you are another women, I'm a size 12. Skinny girls will make comments about me being fat, Fatter girls will make comments about me being to skinny....It's just how it is. I don't give a flying what any of them think...I've never been turned down yet so there is something good about it
I stopped and checked where you were from before posting. Luckily UK size 12 I know what it is!! I can't get my head round why anyone would say that is fat and they really need a slap about the head a few dozen times to bring them back to the real world.
Personaly I was never fussy with looks on the opposite sex, just happens I ended up with a gorgeous wife I always tried to get to know the person a bit first. Anyway curves for the win, stick insects would punture my lung or something with their ribs.
radiohazard wrote:I'm worried about this now and my daughter has only just turned two today. Most models are very tall - Jodie Kidd is 6' 4" - and my daughter is already over 3' tall which is ludicrously tall for her age. She isn't skinny, she's the correct weight for her height but I do worry. I don't want her getting into the business whatsoever.
Just MHO.
If I may? Don't worry so much about her correct HT and WT. This must be your first child. Man, those doctors, books, media and such can have you twisted and panicked about this stuff.
On a more general path regarding OP:
As far as body image and self esteem. It is a constant, ongoing thing. You have to tell, show and practice that fitness and diet are good. Health is the primary reason. Self Esteem is more than just physical (which sadly all of us former teenage boys didn't help at all) and also that all of us are different and we have to cultivate that we are who we are and have to figure out how to be happy with that. What is in our control (personally) and what is not.
You cannot tell a child once that something is bad or wrong. If you never communicate with your child regarding smoking and then you catch them at ten or so trying to smoke a cig with their friends then chew their butt saying, "Don't do that, it's wrong." The only thing they're going to think about is smoking and more than likely do it to spite you. It is the same with anything. It takes an ongoing, subtle effort using personal practice and many forms of parental propaganda over many years. It is a philosophy, not a sermon if you know what I mean.
I am a parent and I am not making this up. You can find this information in just about any child/teenage psychology book. They may differ in details but the highlights are pretty much standard.
People go crazy over diamonds, even though that market is based almost entirely on marketing, and not on actual value. This is not to say that diamonds will become unpopular all of a sudden, just that people tend to move with the crowd, and in that sense advertising skinny models as a standard is bound to have an effect on some people.
I think that this image does present a pretty good parody, and that seems to be a very popular eye-catching mechanism in advertising these days.
Karl Lagerfield objecting to a German magazine's new policy of only using realistic looking models.
The man should be beaten with the bras of size 13+ women for 42 days.
Karl Lagerfeld says only 'fat mummies' object to thin modelsGerman designer claims objections to 'size-zero' models are driven by overweight women
Comments (245)
Buzz up!
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Kate Connolly in Berlin
guardian.co.uk, Monday 12 October 2009 15.20 BST
Article history
A model wears a Karl Lagerfeld creation for Chanel at Paris Fashion Week. Photograph: Lucas Dolega/EPA
Karl Lagerfeld, the eccentric German fashion designer, has waded into the debate about size-zero models by stating that people prefer to look at "skinny models", and those who do not are "fat mummies".
Lagerfeld, 71, was reacting to the magazine Brigitte's announcement last week that it will in future use "ordinary, realistic" women rather than professional models in its photoshoots. He said the decision by Germany's most popular women's magazine was "absurd" and driven by overweight women who did not like to be reminded of their weight issues.
"These are fat mummies sitting with their bags of crisps in front of the television, saying that thin models are ugly," Lagerfeld said in an interview with Focus magazine. The creative director of the fashion house Chanel added that the world of fashion was all to do "with dreams and illusions, and no one wants to see round women".
Lagerfeld, who is known in the trade as a designer with a particular penchant for skinny models, adopted an almost emaciated look himself a few years ago, losing a lot of weight when he went on a strict low-carbohydrate diet. He has continued to share his diet tips over the years, stating: "I only like the things that I'm allowed to eat, so it's not like I have to avoid anything, which is how I don't put on weight."
He has also repeatedly defended the fashion world against claims that it encourages anorexia.
Three years ago in Berlin, the designer, known in the trade as King Karl and who sports a trademark upturned white collar and black leather gloves, created a stir by saying that it was psychological problems that caused models to be underweight, not pressure from the fashion industry.
"They aren't deliberately skinny because they want to be models, they've probably had family problems or suffered from other traumas," he said, adding that he had never seen any anorexic models himself, "only extremely slim ones".
The Hamburg fashion designer John Ribbe joined the debate, saying the row over underweight models had become hysterical. "It's just as much a cliché as saying that all models take drugs and get drunk at sex orgies," he said.
"Ninety per cent of them are quite normal, properly proportioned girls with less fat and more muscles who also eat pizzas and burgers."
Brigitte's editor, Andreas Lebert, said that after years of having to "fatten up" pictures of underweight models "with Photoshop", the magazine will produce its first edition with non-professional models on 2 January.
"We will show women that have their own identity – the 18-year-old A-level student, the company chairwoman, the musician, the footballer," he said. Lebert, who said the average weight of a model was "23% less" than that of a non-model, is calling for readers to sign up for photo sessions.
Brigitte's decision follows a recent appeal by British Vogue editor Alexandra Shulman to major fashion houses to end the "size-zero" culture, and a scandal over a Ralph Lauren advertising campaign in which a model was "thinned down" using computer graphics.
The magazine is trying to cut costs, by reducing the quality of the models.
Lagerfield is correct to object when his product will not be presented as beautifully.
It's like giving an engagement ring in a brown paper bag at McDonalds, rather than a Tiffany box at Mortons. Same thing, but huge difference in presentation
JohnHwangDD wrote:The magazine is trying to cut costs, by reducing the quality of the models.
Lagerfield is correct to object when his product will not be presented as beautifully.
It's like giving an engagement ring in a brown paper bag at McDonalds, rather than a Tiffany box at Mortons. Same thing, but huge difference in presentation
Orkeosaurus wrote:
This looks shopped. I can tell by the pixels, and from having seen quite a few shops in my day.
Having gotten that out of my system:
I have no idea what the hades is wrong with fashion designers. Its like they forgot women were built to have curves..wait...
A career field <sarcasm> populated by pederasts and sodomites dressing people to be 'pretty'</sarcasm>
I think fashion design is having a Daliesque Cubist Picasso movement.
Hmm I'm not overweight, or a housewife sitting on the sofa eating whatever, in fact not even female and I think that the women they are trying to shove down our throats as beautiful aren't attractive due to not having curves in the right places, and look very unhealthy. Either end of the weight spectrum is dangerous after all.
So how do these designers catergorise me?
Personaly my opinion is that they have a desire to commit necrophilia and so mould their models accordingly. Lagerfield is free to respond
She still looks unhealthy in the unshopped photo. As for the firing it sounds just plain... shocking. Saying the size the girl is a is too fat creates even more of a disturbing message to people and these fashion companies should really be looking to reality.
And personal opinion that dress looks like it is hanging off her.
Frazz, yahoo is posting the same news. She's 5'10" and 120 pounds, and that is, apparently, too fat for Ralph Lauren. That sounds pretty damn healthy to me. And her non-photoshopped photos in the article, imho, look a lot better. I like those lady humps. And because I like including somewhat OT movie quotes, as Will Ferrell would say, "No one knows what it means, but it's provocative."
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