Who is all around braver and facing the worst, the bairly armoured undertrained guards man or the hulking imortal marine. Both fight great enamys and see great hard ship whitch force is braver? Begin the debat.

LD 7, or LD 8?
You tell me...

no i mean fluff wis ewho has to deal with the most and show the most cyragae in the face of imposobility, pritty musch who has it harder

Well Guard are forced to fight more often but when things get really hairy they call in the Sphuess Muhreenz.
So I'd still say they are braver just because they fight the worst of the worst and can't call for help.

Guardsmen becuase they are just normal men and women fighting the horrors of the universe.

Mind you i did say Guardsmen not conscripts or penal troopers they something else. Marines have their centuries of extensive training, amazing armor and weaponry plus they are different; they dont feel pain cuz of the psyco conditioning who wouldnt feel confident?
now fighting a demon with only a basic mass produced lasgun and your buddies next to you that takes frijoles!

...serious thread?

Marines know no fear, guardsmen are brave enough to fight 8 foot tall killing machines. I'd say guardsmen are more actually brave.

Guardsmen have more bravery, but Marines actually solve the problem.

The Emperor, in all his great wisdom declared, about his mighty Space Marines, "And They Shall Know No Fear..."

The Guard charge bravely ahead, mostly, because of the nice Commisar with a gun in their backs.

Guardsman I would consider 'braver' and more 'courageous', because of their capacity to feel fear from facing all the great horrors they must face. They overcome the fear, either cause of the Commisar aiming a pistol at their heads, or for other reasons, and thus achieve true bravery and courage.

Space Marines, as we all know, know no fear, for they are fear incarnate, etc etc due to hypno/psycho-conditioning and all that. So on a technical level, if they cant feel fear, they have no fear to overcome, and thus arent actually brave or courage. They just face what needs to scourged with holy bolter and chainsword.

Conscripts on the other hand... heh... LD 5, as different from a grot as a guardsman is from a space marine.

Cryonicleech wrote:Guardsmen have more bravery, but Marines actually solve the problem.

Hey! I resent that!

But still...QFT.

Since SMs are brainwashed to feel no fear, clearly they aren't any braver than an inanimate object.

Even if they could feel fear, Guardsmen would still win.

To me bravery is about standing up for your beliefs/self/others despite any personal risk. For Guardsmen their risk is greater because they have a lot less to protect themselves. Greater the risk, greater the bravery.

Then again, sometimes accepting that kind of risk is just being foolish.

Of course, you have to keep in mind that Space Marines were braver than the average human BEFORE they got buffed up. And although they are rigourous and all BUT fearless, they can still feel terror.

They are not inhuman. They are not machines. In all honesty they face up to terrors that would leave men cringing crawling on the floor in utter shock.

It's really like comparing which is better, the SM or the Grey Knights? Grey Knights are just better. Not inhuman, not a bloody servitor, they just have that little bit more weights worth in gonads.

Guardsmen of course. They rely on paper thin armour and flashlights to face the same enemies Space Marines do in their tank like armour with effective Grenade Launcher guns.

The OC-D

I can't accept that a super-human protected by power armour, who is psychologically unable to feel fear, who gets rapidly inserted into weak points of the enemy, and whisked out quickly because he is too valuable to risk in a stand-up fight, is as brave as a guy with BALLS OF STEEL.

Marines are braver.........when stairs are not involved.

This reminds me of an old joke of a Cannoness, Chapter Master, and a Commissar or something telling their troopers to jettison themselves out of the spaceship.
The SoB and the Space Marine jump out. But the IG trooper refuses. "Now that's Brave."

Real men don't need power armor and we fight with our reinforced t-shirt and flashlight faithfully.Besides Imperial Guard has standard issue steel ball,marines don't have them and Ollanus Pius the guy with Mars-grade forged adamantium balls faced Horus with his flashlight without shi ing in his pants or mewling like a wounded Grox.Now that's brave but GW have deleted him and replaced him with another space marine terminator and later finnaly with custodes.Yeah GW scre everything up.

Well my two cents are that it all depend on the fluff you read. It you read a Guard novel them they are the braves if it Marines then they are the one kicking butt.

It's easy to me. To be brave is to face your fears. The whole "And they shall know no fear" thing makes me think that they can't be brave.

As much as I love SM, I agree that being the hardiest souls (often primitive savages) plucked from their world, genetically altered, trained, and mentally conditioned, not to mention in powered armour, are not really the same as IG.

The IG are just men (although a basic soldier in WH40K is probably total man-sauce compared to ours), so they fear, they have doubts, and they have basic weapons and armour. They are expected to face huge green monsters that love nothing but to fight, ravening insect-alien giants that want to eat them, soulless metal machines, and even more terrifying demons.

Sure, some have to be nudged forward by the commissar, but then there are those that march forward themselves, bravely to death or victory.

IvanTih wrote:Real men don't need power armor and we fight with our reinforced t-shirt and flashlight faithfully.

Guard because they go to war, with light armour and no super-powers, and still fight the same monsters, often the ones that are 2 or 3 maybe even 10 times thier size. Go guard!

Of course, Guard have whole armies backing them up, while SM are pretty much on thier own. Apart from orbital bonbonbardments.

Yeah, but Marines have power armor and cybernetic enchancement. Guard are as human as you and me given a flashlight and a shirt and pushed off a plane into a horde of tyranids. Although marines seem to go traitor alot more then Guard do.

Gaurdsmen FTW

@Shadowbrand: Not really. It's just that marines have thier own navy and so aren't in as much trouble when loyalists rock up to purge them.

I understand the appreciation that guardsmen recieve, but you should keep in mind that SM are not fearless. And they are often in the fiercest fighting against the fiercest foe. Not for them the cleansing of some rebels on some bygone backwater planet.

@EF I guess with cultists and how most of them were once Guardsmen.
As well I see were your coming with Marines but they have so much more then Guardsmen.
And more often then not there as Marines there are Guardsmen with them. *Major Battles, Dawn of War*

Ollanius Pius decided to try and kill horus in a 1 on 1 fight. that takes ballz

I'd of thought marines, and they shall know no fear, and not to mention a guardsmen will do a browner and run if a firewarrior runs at him with a knife

Was he a guardsmen?

My vote goes to the Commissars. They get sent to regiments around the universe to uphold Imperial command and control by shooting their cowardly leaders and fighting to the death.

thekingofdinner wrote:Ollanius Pius decided to try and kill horus in a 1 on 1 fight. that takes ballz

Lol. He walked into a room. Horus looked at him. He died. Seriously, he actually did die when Horus looked at him.

IMO this is the "Batman/Superman debate",Marines may seem braver,but of course they stand a much greater chance of walking out of a fire fight/close combat no worse for wear.
A Guardsman has no "super powers",so I would have to say that Guardsmen by and large are much braver.

nice is very interestign comparing rouge markets response to yours.

Guardsmen are Humanity at its finest; brothers in arms whose only hope of victory is to stand and fight together.

Space Marines aren't human. They have no fear to overcome.

Well guardsmen can be sometimes be a chicken and if Mordians wil hold lines against everything that galaxy can throw at them even cans.

Lets see how brave marines would be if they had to wear Flak armor rather than power armor. And used flashlights rather than bolters.

They would still be ass-shakingly brave. They just wouldn't last that long.

Guardsmen have as many acts of heroism as they do cowardice. (if not more) But Space Marines are always heroic, all the time. It is not that they have no fear, but the do not heed it.

To those quoting "And they shall know no fear" it actually goes like this

Lexicanum wrote:They shall be my finest warriors, these men who give of themselves to me. Like clay I shall mould them, and in the furnace of war forge them. They will be of iron will and steely muscle. In great armour shall I clad them and with the mightiest guns will they be armed. They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them. They will have tactics, strategies and machines so that no foe can best them in battle. They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines and they shall know no fear.

+++ The Emperor of Mankind, on the Creation of the Space Marines +++

When used in context they will know no fear because of their training and equipment. Not to mention the genetic modification. Guardsmen might run from time to time, but they march towards the enemy armed with 40k's equivilant of a potato gun and little more than ordinary clothes for armour. The only mental conditioning they really get is "If I don't fight, the Commissar will kill me anyway".

I will happily join in: Guards are the braver souls. They can't choose where or whom they fight, their equipment is nowhere great or shiny (Damn, why did we have to loose our stormbolters? Were these too mighty for us or what?! ) and just about any fight has a terrible tendency to be a "glorious last stand". At least when reading some of that stupidly written WD stuff
"Okay, that's it! Get out of your fancy suit and say that again!" Best way to show a marine who's tough.
I like the approach of the last line of defence, the nearly (mind that!) hopeless resistance and the underdog image of the imperial guard. Just hope, GW doesn't turn away from that in favour of picturing the IG as the damsel in distress to be saved (once again) by the glorious almighty blablabla SMs.
We can be heroes, too!

You really think that Guardsmen stand a chance against most of the imperiums foes on thier lonesome?

And it differs from planet to planet. Many worlds may have a strict martial upbringing where honour and bravery are in plentiful supply. Some saner worlds could be a bit concerned about their own safety.

A compliment for a guardsmen would be something like "Hey, you would have made a good Space Marine!"

Ollianus Pius single handedly saved the imperium. The final fight between Big E and Horus was alot like the luke/vader fight, but more grimdark,
"I know there's some good in you!"
"No there isn't, STFU and die already!"
"Hey Mister! Look out!"
Horus glances at the lone G-man charging him and casually tears out his heart and anniahilates his soul, causing the room to be covered in blood...

...

"I guess there Isn't good in you after all..."
*SMITE!*

OFC, Emps was mortaly wounded at the time, and never made a full recovery.

Spacys of course...

sniperjolly wrote:Ollianus Pius single handedly saved the imperium. The final fight between Big E and Horus was alot like the luke/vader fight, but more grimdark,
"I know there's some good in you!"
"No there isn't, STFU and die already!"
"Hey Mister! Look out!"
Horus glances at the lone G-man charging him and casually tears out his heart and anniahilates his soul, causing the room to be covered in blood...

...

"I guess there Isn't good in you after all..."
*SMITE!*

OFC, Emps was mortaly wounded at the time, and never made a full recovery.

"I know there's some good in you father. You couldn't kill me then, and you won't take me to the emperor now"
Hey....wait a secuund.
Also, it could've been a custode or an IF. Or maybe all 3?

This is a very hard question because you have to decide what brevery is and what does it mean to each respected subject? I remember a similar question on another forum I posed about who is a bigger hero- Batman or Superman. In that topic we had to disscuss what a hero was because Superman- is indestructable- but at the same time is nearly irreplaceable. Batman on the other hand is very much human- and almost irreplaceable(argueable I guess). I understand the obvious point that a marine can charge a howling banshee or Tyranid warrior and have a better than fair chance of survival- where a guard does not- yet they both WILL charge if "For the Emperor!" and all that... A guardsman may take a few years to train properly ( honestly I don't know) where a marine takes what 20 years of training/implant/surgery/psychic surgery, ect. It is easy to say a guardsman is more brave because he is outclassed physically-but you could argue it is a greater loss when a space marine dies because of how long they may live and all the people they may save, ect. So in the end- I will say that anyone- that sacrifices themselves (or tries to) is very brave because in the end if you slip on a tyranid biophage on the ground and break you neck in battle or you are hit by a blood thirster's axe- dead is dead. The only way to quantify it further- is if you by into normal death- heaven/Emperor's heaven whatever or if you go by the whole- "if a daemon gets you they take your soul to the Eye of Terror " he rips you apart over and over for all eternity blah blah stuff that daemons are known to say- then you may say that Daemon hunters or whoever fights them may be braver because for anyone else that dies- dies- but the deamons tae it a step further. Personally I just take that as tuff guy talk from the daemons...? Right? Force weapons destroying or eating your soul doesn't sound too good either now that I thingk of it. I guess it depends on whether you believe in the "soul" stuff. I myself do not.

SM: when your a genticly inhanced supersoldier brainwashed with religious dogma, your just a thinking killing machine.
The Gaurd: sure there are a million billion of you, but does that really matter to the bullet with your name on it?
Winner Gaurd.

I say marines because they are chosen from the best and bravest recruits. Also guard have legions of tanks, millions of each other and the odd commisar pointing a gun at their head.
Also marines have to fight tougher foes and are used as elite shock troops, and so are braver because they started out from the bravest so now know no fear.

Yeah I forgot about der commizar...definately a motivator..haha.

kuro_khan wrote:Lets see how brave marines would be if they had to wear Flak armor rather than power armor. And used flashlights rather than bolters.

Read the killing ground

Marines don't need a commissar. Guard do. Think about it.

Guardsmen have balls of ing steel. Guardsmen all the way. I mean do we have to even ask? Let's do a comarision.
Space Marine: doesn't know fear, has pauldrons so huge that they get a 3+ armour save. Fancy gear.
Guardsmen: Flak jacket, giant laser-pointer,balls of steel.
Compared to a space marine the guardsman the gaurdsmen has the steelier balls.

Sorry SM! But balls of steel confer leadership value of over 9000!

I think guarsmen have it tougher persionaly but marines are brave so i put it up for a poll keep posting

The Guardsmen charge forward because the comissar is threatening to kill them.

And whoever said the SM are only put where the fighting is not too bad, is bs. They are put where the fighting is worst. I dunno what books you are reading but they aren't written by someone who knows the fluff.

And you all speak English, please exxer size propar grammar and spelin

TheRavenWolf wrote:
Also marines have to fight tougher foes and are used as elite shock troops, and so are braver because they started out from the bravest so now know no fear.

Ah but if they know no fear then how can you overcome it? And you obviously never played a monstrous creature 4000 point tyranid army with only 1 baneblade!

Space Marines are not Fearless. Otherwise they would have the fearless rule. They are just incredibly brave. Leadership 9 and 10 type brave. Which is better than Ld 7. Who has Ld 7? Oh, that's right. Guardsmen.

But why wouldn't they be super "brave" when they have 3+ chance of surviving and some of the best equipment the Imperium has to offer?

Munch Munch! wrote:But why wouldn't they be super "brave" when they have 3+ chance of surviving and some of the best equipment the Imperium has to offer?

Then explain how you can take away all their equipment and their armour, and their attitude towards endangering their lives for the Imperium won't change. Sure, Guardsmen have their moments, but one on one, I'd give it to the Marine, easy.

This makes me think back to a thread about "Why do Orks use such dangerous tech?". It was decided that the way Orks see things, it's much better to be super-awesome and die quickly, than to live long and only be a little bit awesome. Of course, if you get lucky and live long WHILE being super awesome, all the more for you!

Marines are the same way. When you hear of Marines fighting to the last man, it's not because they're trapped or they're just bald and screaming, it's because if they can help it, they're going to kill as many of the Heretical/Xenos scum as they can before they die. Or, barring that, curse the enemy out until something finishes them off.

Guardsmen, on the other hand, are going to get themselves out of a bad situation rather than die if at all possible. Unlike Marines, they believe in the phrase "He who flees, fights again". Whereas with a Marine it's "He who does what?". Which is part of the reason Guardsmen come in massive swarms of flashlights and fodder. Because as long as there're more of them than there are the foe, they're brave. Start killing them in droves though, and they'll brown their trousers faster than an old man with no bowel control.

However, for coolness points, Guardsmen win. Because nothing beats shelling the piss out of things with excessive amounts of tanks and artillery.

I have to say that I sympathise with guardsmen pretty much becuase they are the only sanes ones in the grimdarkness of the far future.

Emperors Faithful wrote:I have to say that I sympathise with guardsmen pretty much becuase they are the only sanes ones in the grimdarkness of the far future.

QFT. Marines might be braver, but fighting to the death even though there's a chance of getting your arse out of there is pretty damn insane. You ask me, the Guardsman has more common sense. The Marine just has more bullocks. And baldness.

And rage. And mental insecurities due to brutality as a child.

For the most part, Guardsmen are pretty brave to stand up to the freaks of 40k at all. Can you really blame them when they see a bloodthirster and decide that it's time to get the feth outta there?

marines because they are awesome
guardsmen do brave stuff because if the don't they get a hole for a face from the friendly commissar

Emperors Faithful wrote:And rage. And mental insecurities due to brutality as a child.

For the most part, Guardsmen are pretty brave to stand up to the freaks of 40k at all. Can you really blame them when they see a bloodthirster and decide that it's time to get the feth outta there?

Like I said, Guardsmen just have that thing called common sense. You're not going to beat a Bloodthirster with your flashlight, so even though you could bravely stand there and shoot at it while your chums escape, you've got a better chance of not dying a horrible, gruesome death if you can run faster than at least one them.

Sure, it makes you a coward, but then again standing there makes you stupid. Brave, but stupid.

Guardsmen get set to fight an unknown enemy so they have no idea what they're in for. By the time they find out it's too late to run and they either live or die.
Marines do know what they're up against (mostly) and go in anyway. I wouldn't get hung up on the gear and training of a marine because they get sent to fight battles that guardsmen couldn't hope to win anyway so their personal challenges are just as great.

Emperors Faithful wrote:You really think that Guardsmen stand a chance against most of the imperiums foes on thier lonesome?

tanith guardsmen rock everything, see pictures and follow at own discretion, mature word follows.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2008/5/1208986387138-26000920.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/Paingod556/1237680860093.jpg

You might want to get rid of both of 'em, lest this thread become locked.

Hows that, does that violate?

No, it should be good. Especially since you've given a warning.

BTW, lol.

I can respect a Guardsman more, but to put it simply... A Space Marine will not falter; a Guardsman will break *eventually*, and whilst in the fluff some Space Marines break (AKA those Marines going crazy in that long Chaos tunnel in that Uriel Ventris book...), the fact remains that they've been conditioned to not even pay attention to their fear... so they are outwardly superior to Guardsmen when it comes to morale.

I don't think saying "Guardsmen are braver because they are normal men and women!" makes them braver at all... it just, like I said, makes you respect them more...

Guardsmen all the way. Bravery is overcoming fear not being fearless. If I gave any of you a torch and a sheet of plasticard how many of YOU would go Ork hunting? If I was an SM in my Power Armour with all my muscles and acidic spit the I would be raring to go. It takes real nads to be a guardsman and just anger management issues to be an SM.

What people forget is that:

1) Space Marines are not entirely fearless.
2) A brave guardsman is (comparitively) a Chicken Marine.

i cant believe the vote so far
space marines braver
esp the chaos ones
:-p

Ig for sure, but I might be bias. sm robots cant be brave or have fear.

Yeah Well Sly Marbo knows no FEAR, coincidentally there is no mercy in his dojo!

Sgt. Salt wrote:LD 7, or LD 8?
You tell me...

We'll see if that LD stays the same if space marine wears Catachan armor... ( or lack of )

That's pretty much a scout right?

Emperors Faithful wrote:That's pretty much a scout right?

Maybe! *checks scout LD lol
Bleh both LD 8

Would you look at that!
Having no power armour takes thier leadership down...1?

I'll have to say Guardsmen; Space Marines get to hide inside that huge suit of power armor. Not to mention that whenever space marines arrive on the battlefield they usually arrive with more than enough force to easily win the battle. Guardsmen however have comparatively primitive equipment, are usually outnumbered and outgunned, and well...they are guardsmen.

The fact that they don't just turn around and run puzzles me. But I suppose that's what they have Commissars for.

Dedrith wrote:
I'll have to say Guardsmen; Space Marines get to hide inside that huge suit of power armor. Not to mention that whenever space marines arrive on the battlefield they usually arrive with more than enough force to easily win the battle. Guardsmen however have comparatively primitive equipment, are usually outnumbered and outgunned, and well...they are guardsmen.

The fact that they don't just turn around and run puzzles me. But I suppose that's what they have Commissars for.

are you sure you have this right?

the Space Marines are the ones to arrive with smaller numbers, lighter support and are always out numbered.

where as the IG have waves of bodies to be thrown into the meat grinder, one after right after the other, some of the heaviest tanks out there and swarms of them.

as for hiding behind/in things, the IG have one of the largest tanks known to man, the Baneblade and its variants.

the whole aurgement is it a bit much, after all you are comparing oranges to bananas, the IG is used as a hammer strike, nothing pretty. they hit their foes with hundreds of bodies, dozens of tanks, and simply over whelm their foes. Marines on the other hand are a strike force, they strike like a surgeon's knife, meant to hit in a vital place and do the most damage to the foe as a whole.

now yes Marine "Shall Know No Fear" but they didn't start off this way, they over came their fears, they learned to shove them aside, to forget about their human ties to become better.

though these are just my simply opinions, and getting late in the night it may come out blurring and unclear to others, so take all of this with a grain of salt.

Would you rather stand in front of a hive fleet with flack armour and a lasgun, or 7 and a half feet tall covered in a tonne of power armour with a machine gun that fires exploding rounds.

Being so much worse armed to undertake the same job takes more bravery imo

I would say the guard, as marines cant feel or know fear anyway, so how can they be braver if they don't have the power to feel it? hence when guardsman stand up to and army of nids, they all pooing themselves, but they still fight till their dieing breath (commissars may be a factor in this...) but a space marine would just laugh because he thinks they look funny, he might say 'thats one big bug' but he won't be scared

Ha! lol,
Space Marine 1: Hey dude, it's raining bugs!
Space Marine 2: Mmm kuntucky fried rippers for breakfast!
Space Marine 3: Another bug for my collection!

But here's what a guardsman thinks.
Imp. Guar. 1: Oh hell these 'nids are tearing us to crap!
Imp. Guar. 2: Alright flak jacket do your jo...ARRGH!!!!
Imp. Guar. 3: Oh crap Rico's dead! We gotta fall ba*BLAM*
Commisar: Don't you run away!
Imp. Guar. 4 Man, Commisar's a real dick. *Hormagaunt stabs 4's heart.

Well in a way they are both brave.
Guard gotta go up against that huge 'nid army with tanks and crappy armour, but Space Marines gotta board that hive fleet with 10 soldiers and a chaplain.
Let's just agree that if you fight for the imperium, you have balls of steel.

Case in point: Ollanius Pius.

everyone is capable to charge an Ork or a Tyranid with a power armor covering your body and with a bolter in the hands....

now do the same thing with a flak jacket and a lasgun.

Guards are braver or crazier... they deserve more respect than Marines (even if sometimes they are forced from Commisars)

I just love these highly subjective threads with no real right or wrong answers.

To me, courage is the overcoming of fear (now I sound like Bruce Wayne or something), and by that definition, the guardsman clearly wins out. I'm pretty sure it's been said before, but it is different for a super human warrior, who has been genetically, mentally, and physically conditioned to have an absence of fear to be brave, than for an ordinary human who has none of these backgrounds.

It's like the difference of pointing a gun at someone who doesn't know what it is, and someone who does. It is different for a person who has known fear and seen death throughout their entire lives to go into battle then it is for someone who doesn't even know the definition of fear, because they have never experienced it. You could argue that space marine recruits have known such emotions before they were even selected for training, but isn't the whole purpose of becoming a super human warrior is to lose the traits and weaknesses that make you human? Once that's literally ripped out of their mind, it's the same thing as starting with a clean slate. Only this time, you don't even have the most basic of all human emotions, and no references from which to learn.

I mean, it pretty much ends with Ollanius Pious. He knew from the start that if he tried to get in the way, he would most definietly die. Perhaps more importantly, he did it even though he knew it was going to be meaningless. Yet he still did it. And in the end, he basically saved the Imperium.

The humble soldier of the Imperial Guard gets my vote. There is a fundamental problem with comparing Astartes and Guardsmen. The Astartes are not technically human anymore. They are selected at a young age and subjected to intensive mental conditioning and genetic manipulation. As a result the way how a marine reacts to stimuli simply is not comparable to the way how a normal human would react. The marines have a conditioned programming and genetic enhancements that control their responses to feelings like fear, so you can not talk about "bravery" in the normal sense of the word.

Imperial Guard are by far more braver. They have a gun is more commonly know as a flashlight due to the level of destruction it causes and armour that is only there to make the look protected, but is actually cardboard .
Smurfs have the best equipment the imperium has to offer, and they both fight the same enemies.

The Guardsmen of course, a nicely thrown rock could go through their armor but they stay and fight the enemy none the less....

well the guard needs commisars to execute people to keep order [inspire fear]

marines dont really have that going on...

thekingofdinner wrote:Ollanius Pius decided to try and kill horus in a 1 on 1 fight. that takes ballz

Who is Ollanius Pius?
That bit of fluff went pass me.

You guys are forgetting some things about guardsmen.

They don't have a choice.

Do you honestly think that most of the guardsmen would fight if they didn't have to? When you hear they faced a ton of titans, they don't want to, and they sure as well would run away if they didn't know they we're going to be shot as soon as they turned around.

Space Marines are braver, simply because they're much more protected, and have more faith in the emperor, they we're bred to fight mankinds enemies, and they sure as hell got over being afraid of the dark long ago.

Guardsmen are about as brave as a snotling, except they have the brains to know that if they don't fight, they're dead anyways.

tigonesskay wrote:

thekingofdinner wrote:Ollanius Pius decided to try and kill horus in a 1 on 1 fight. that takes ballz

Who is Ollanius Pius?
That bit of fluff went pass me.

Its Pious, as in religious.

He was the guardsmen that stood up against Horus during the final moment when Horus was about to kill the Emperor. Horus essentially laughed at him and cut him down like a child, and then the Emperor (finally) realises Horus is completely beyond saving, and kills him.


I disagree Karon. You think the threat of execution is the only thing keeping a guardsmen in line? They can easily refuse to fight once in battle if they chose to. The commissar is only one man, and his authority is meaningless if the guardsmen under him were all as "brave as a snotling". Theres always going to be some bad apples in a basket, but you can't possibly say they're cowards because they don't have a choice. Heck, the entire Allied army in WW2 didn't have much of a choice either, and look how well they performed.

Besides, marines don't have any faith in the Emperor.

a guardsman shats himself from a big chaos marine? and space marines shal know no fear!

Its one of them, Redscare, I used the reference to a snotling as an example. Execution keeps the notion that if they run away, they're dead, and if they don't, then at least they have a chance to die fighting, or not die.

Commissars are to shoot those bad apples, mate.

Yeah, and the reason the god damn U.S. army in WW2 fought so well is because if they didn't, they we're dead anyway!

Have you seen saving private ryan? If so, do you remember the start part where a whole boarding-boat was shot to oblivion by a Heavy MG? If they all would have tried to run away, they would have died, but they knew that, so they figured that if they fight, atleast they have a chance.

The majority of the U.S. military is full of people who didn't have options in life besides to join the military.

This has probably been mentioned on one of the other pages, but....I'm one of those people believe that you can't have the good without the bad. Meaning you can't be brave without knowing fear.

Guardsmen get my vote :U

brave-adjective
1. possessing or exhibiting courage or courageous endurance.
2. making a fine appearance.
3. Archaic. excellent; fine; admirable.

The regular Guardsmen does not have any of these when they are fighting any of the emperors enemies, only Space Marines, or other such person, would not be afraid. A regular guy with a gun, and some shooting training who just got out of bootcamp (a guardsman) will at the sight of a Carnfex or Monolith.

You are doin it rong lul

OK so if you read any of the books the marines show some kind of fear... but with time they soon oversome that fear as they focus more on thier faith in the All Father.. also Gaurd does hav it the rougher way but they also were not worthy enough to become one of the emperors chosen so i have to side with the Marines on this on


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Also Gaurdx fight bravely knowing that they can call on the help of the SM's anytime they feel in danger... There is a thin line between bravery and stupidity

I'm curious, how does being worthy enough to become a Marine make them braver? I was just under the assumption that it meant they were stronger and more aggressive in most cases. Also people keep mentioning that the Guard can get Marine support whenever, but I'm pretty sure that is not the reality of the situation.

Unless the Marines went with them in the first place I'm pretty sure the average guardsmen knows that the chances of them coming in time are no that high. What with the communication through the warp, rounding up a battle group, and actually arriving to the guard's position? I'm pretty sure most of them know they're shafted.

Oh, and on a final note, while they do show some kind of fear, you also mentioned they just end being extremists in their devotion to the emperor...or something along the lines...then again I haven't read any of the books.

I have lost... to guard... who are not guard... they are known as....(enter climatic sound here)SUPAZ GUARDZZZ they only roll one # 6

Guardsmen.

It takes a lot more balls to stand and shoot at that Immortal/Carnifex/Haemonculus when you're not an immortal, nigh invulnerable chunk of muscles wearing a metric tonne of armor and enough firepower to arm a fleet carrier.

thekingofdinner wrote:Ollanius Pius decided to try and kill horus in a 1 on 1 fight. that takes ballz

Not really, he had forgotten to buy his wife an aniversary pressent and wasn't brave enough to return home.


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I say marines are braver:

Aprox number of Guard - Millions - number of acts of bravery - about the same as marines
Aprox number of marines - 10,000 - number of acts of bravery - about the same as guard

So, with a lot less in number, marines have equalled the number of acts of bravory as millions of guard.

just my thought

Guardsmen, simply because they have no fancy toys, noone expects them to win all on their own and there are Space Marines. Everywhere, like spotlight whores... "Okay, so at the other side of the universe starts a minor conflict..." SM yelling: "I'm there already, `cuz I haz megaspeed and ten guys are enuff to beat the CRAP out of everything!!! We winz!!!!"

So in short: Spacies choose their fights depending on weather, air condition and their last meal. Guardsmen have to take whatever the heck comes their way.

You are all fools.
Space Marines die before surrendering.
They seldom retreat during battles.
IG can be routed like cattle.

Flak armor because protection is for cowards

I must say marines. Guardsmen need commisars to say, go over there & die or you'll die right here.

Anyone who has read the fluff knows that Space Marines have had the fear breed out of them. It is physically impossible for them to fell fear.

In my opinion the fact that Space Marines never feel fear, clearly indicates Guardsmen, who can, are the braver. Furthermore, in the few situations where Space Marines feel fear, they end up being just as flighty as Guard. Furthermore, there are plenty of Guard who don't flee. And they are the true chosen of the Emperor.

The Space Marines are the Emperor's children, by blood, His Angels. The Guard are only His children, by race. The Emperor, beloved by all, loves all of His children... However He took away the SM's ability to fear. Like His angels, they are not the ones He tests. Their worth is known to Him. A Guardsman, a man who has proven himself to the Emperor is the superior man. A "guardsman" who flees, is a coward and a traitor, and no Guardsman at all is not fit to live.

A real Guardsman is more brave than a Space Marine, who by design, cannot falter or fail.

Guardsmen are braver, simply because Space Marines don't feel fear, like everyone has been saying. There is something else that needs to be said however. Not a single guardsmen wouldn't become a Space Marine given the chance.

Guardsmen are braver just because you really cant say a space marine is "Brave" he's just trained and warped to do what the emperor demands of him(hell if i couldnt feel anything id be doing what the space marines do)....guardsmen on the other have a choice....now if they run they will most likely get killed by the commisar though.

space marine have to be braver than imperial guardsman. Any old spanker can become an imperial guardsman you have to pass a grueling test to become an initiate and then survive campaign after campagin to become a space marine. Battle hardened=bravery to me
As a whole marines are way braver than the IG. They would have to be, they're called in when the IG can't fight.
Individually i think certain IG might be braver than certain space marines.
Like Commisar Yarrick he must have balls of steel to fight and endure the torture of Thrakka. (any space marine probably could too, but Yarrick is just a man...)

We are the IMPERIUM OF MAN! WE STAND TOGETHER NOT APART! (If you try and stand apart we will deal with you)

I feel that both the Space Marines and Guard are brave, the question of who is braver will take us no where (much like the Male v. Female debate).
Being a member of humanity in the 40k universe is not an easy thing, there is an entire part of the galaxy out to kill you. While it is true that some members
of humanity are not brave or loyal (Traitor Guard/Marines and just plain cowards), that is not the point. Almost all of humanity is fighting in a desperate struggle
to survive. .

The Guard and Marines depend on each other. The Guard's defense and fight would fail if the Marines were not around to deal with particularly important attacks
in the overall theater of battle; on the other hand, the Marines would put up a good fight, but would not be able to repel the forces of: Chaos, Tau, Tyranids, Necrons,
Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Orks across the mass Imperium, they are just too few and need the guard.

This thread is obviously the work of Tzeentch, in an attempt to turn the Imperial forces against each other causing internal conflict

The Imperium stands together?lolz! That made my day. Then why do dozens of planets turn against it, imperial guardsmen turn to chaos, and the Inquisition destroys entire planets despite the pityful cries of the desperate citezens?

Even as a Space Marine player I must say that Guardsmen are braver.

A Guardsman stands and fights because he is brave; A Space Marine stands and fights because if he hasn't already beaten his enemy to a pulp, his advanced psycho-indoctrination kicks in and he cannot retreat.

Munch Munch! wrote:The Imperium stands together?lolz! That made my day. Then why do dozens of planets turn against it, imperial guardsmen turn to chaos, and the Inquisition destroys entire planets despite the pityful cries of the desperate citezens?

Obviously you missed the then we deal with you part. If the Imperium did not stand together would there not be an Imperium

There is no reason for anyone to pick SM.

IG fight and if going gets really tough they might get SM reinforcements.

SM fight without getting reinforcements but SM are genetically engineered beasts. To top it off they don't have to fight through pain (I won't spoil the details but in the Horus heresy one of them gets his ribs crushed and it says something like "he felt the sharp pain for a moment before his armor injected painkillers" ya real hero fighting while dopped.

The IG are normal everyday peeps thrown on a frontline and forced to fight. Yet they still hold the line.

Guard. because marines are unstoppable "no fear knowing" killing machines. Guard are just men.

Marine. Guardsmen exists on being a dumbass.

It apears gaurdsmen have an asounding lead