So, due to some personal problems recently, I'm having a bit of a career crisis. I have a part-time job at my town's Blockbuster, but I might have to drop that next year when college (the last two years of school, 16-18) start. I wanted to be a journalist/freelance writer, but I hear that it's really hard these days and I don't think I'd get anywhere without a degree.

That's why I've started considering some time in the military (reserves, probably) after college. Men in my family, despite being 'academic' people, have a tradition of joining the military early in adulthood and staying on for a few years. Even my half-brother, a hardcore pacifist, signed up as soon as he could.

I'm just not sure if it's right for me though. I'm certainly fitter than I used to be, and I still have a couple of years to go (at a college with a free-to-access gym). So, Dakka, what do you think? Should I sign up for service and get things straight before moving on to university? I'm kind of anti-war (unless it's the best option), and I'm the kind of guy who fears for his own life, but there really aren't many Australian fatalities in the Middle-East. At first I though that frontline fighting isn't the only thing that needs doing, but I really don't have the skills (nor am I interested in them) to be a mechanic or anything like that, nor am I a good leader (so officer training is a no-go).

To be honest, I don't know much about how the military works, but I just feel that it's a good way to spend the beginning of my adult life.

Just don't die.

Would you have a problem with being ordered to kill another human being?

If so, then no, the Military is not for you.

PM JD121290 (UK) and JP400 (US) for military family perspectives.

The reserves dont seem like a bad idea, you get a sign up bonus, and it is less of a commitment then the full 4 year setup. You make less money in the long run but the continuing school is a good thing.

If you do like the military, then upon completing college you can make 2700 a month. Plus all the benefits that go with.

You may also get some journalism work.

I wouldnt go because your "out of options." There are always a way through dark patches in life, even if you need to work the corner a little bit.

You are unable to withdraw from a military contract, and the military mentality is forever, you can not undo any experience.

So go because you think its the best idea for you and your family, its up to you to figure that out for yourself.

P.S. Talk to your friends and ask them instead of telling your childhood buddy the day before you drop out of a top tier research school after completing the hardest things a university science program can throw at you...

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Would you have a problem with being ordered to kill another human being?

If so, then no, the Military is not for you.

Although this seems like an unfair question a first glance ("How can I answer that?") MDG is dead on here.

I'm probably going to join (US, though) through OCS after college, so if you enlist, I may be able to enjoy an all-expenses-paid vacation somewhere sunny with you.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Would you have a problem with being ordered to kill another human being?

If so, then no, the Military is not for you.

If there was no choice, e.g. a Taliban fighter pointing a gun at someone.

My grandpa was in the Merchant Marines during WW2 (he actually got pulled into the Navy later, due to the need for skilled men in the field); he came out of it with experience in engineering. I thought about joining myself recently, but I think I will stick to the straight and narrow instead... especially with the war and all.

If anyone has seen Mr. Roberts, the flick from the 50's, my Grandfather was on that ship (The USS Virgo). The guy he bunked with wrote the book/concept I think; Mr. Roberts was a character developed from stuff that actually happened on the ship.

Wait... the OP... right...

I don't think you are going to find a particularly solid answer for that here, and it is one hell of a commitment; even in the reserves.

My father went into the RAF straight after technical college; he became a wireless technician. Part of his motive was to avoid National Service. He also got a good technical education which he later used as a technical author in the electronics industry.

He was posted all over the world; Gibraltar, Aden, Ceylon, India -- this was the 1950s of course -- and learned a hatred of card games and foreign travel.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Would you have a problem with being ordered to kill another human being?

If so, then no, the Military is not for you.

If there was no choice, e.g. a Taliban fighter pointing a gun at someone.

But could you disassociate yourself from the action? The Military is often accused of dehumanising it's troops, but it's the only way you can not screw someone up for life. It might have been the only option at the time. It was most likely a kill or be killed situation, but even so, you'd still have killed someone.

I know I personally couldn't cope with such things. The Taliban aren't much more than Farmers with rudimentary training, whose general ignorance and lack of education are used to turn them into weapons for hate mongers and religious psychopaths. Unless training is exceptional, I fear that some part of me would still view it that way, and I'd end up with blood on my hands, no matter how judicious the killing was at the time.

I'm not saying only thickos or emotionally detached people are in the army by any means, just saying that I am most definitely not cut from the right cloth.

Cheese, It seems Im in the same year as you.

I see alot of people I know my age, thinking of joining the army, Because they have no idea what they want to do after they leave school.

I dont think you should join the army. Try an get a degree

I dunno. I really don't. I used to be fanatically opposed to that sort of thing, but... you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes.

From what I can tell from the Interweb, you seem pretty Intelligent Cheese.

If you wanna be a journalist, then get the degree you need.

Its better to stay in education these days. With the failing economy and dat.

Lord-Loss wrote:Cheese, It seems Im in the same year as you.

I see alot of people I know my age, thinking of joining the army, Because they have no idea what they want to do after they leave school.

I dont think you should join the army. Try an get a degree

You probably should wait a while, to be sure.

This is one of the biggest problems I had with High School; the lack of preparation for the 'real' world. It is pretty depressing to have most of my friends and acquaintances, that are my age, not having a clue what they are going to do over the next few years. Can't say I am that much better off really... but I have been thinking long term careers and goals, going on well past a decade now. At one point I wanted to do Marine Biology, sounded fun ya' know; but I decided to go with something a bit more practical. Ended up with Landscape Architecture... just need to finish this pesky degree now... .

Damn paper, telling me what to do with my life... grumble grumble...

Your Military service might only be a few years, but it lasts a lifetime if you get what I mean.

You mentioned that there aren't many Aussie Fatalities. Sure. Right now. But who knows about the next few years? No one predicted the 9/11 atrocity, nor that we would still be in Afghanistan 8 years later.

Trouble and Warfare can flare up anytime, and I would urge anyone considering joining the Armed Forces to contemplate this. Always assume you will see Front Line Conflict. Then, if you get through without a full on war zone deployment, you can count yourself luck rather than wind up gaking yourself due to an unexpected deployment.

Mate if your "kind of anti war" then the military is not right for you. I think you have to be 100% commited to want to do it.

I joined the Royal Marines after i read about the Luxor tourist massacre. I remember it clearly, i read the newspaper and it made me feel physically ill. It happened on November 17th 1997. I started my training on the 8th of November a year later aged 19.

I was filled with a burning desire to kill people. I was a teenager, it fired my blood, and that rage is what got me through the extremely difficult training.

Now im 30, i left last year. I feel very different, i dont think there is anything good to come out of my 5 tours, and i dont feel any better.

That said, 90% of the military arent combat troops. If you want to get into a trade, or something that you think could give you some real satisfaction, then maybe it would work out, such as working in a medical field or as an engineer or something, but you really should think long and hard about making such a big decision.

If it is simply a worry about getting gainful employment i would suggest you dont jump to any conclusions.

Im glad to leave school. The worst moments of my life has been in this hole.

Wrex, Im just gonna take a course which interests me.

mod: swear removed, just cos the filter doesnt catch them doesnt mean you should leave them in

My brother joined the army (the british one, actually, Royal Marines) and served in Afganistan. It's dangerous, sure, but not insanely so- western militaries are good at looking after their guys.

Is it a good life choice? I dunno, it certainly taught him how to keep his gak sorted and look after himself, but he also didn't enjoy some of the culture of the military until he qualified as a sniper. At that point people left him alone a bit more, but up until then it could be pretty tough. Lots of bullying and a fair amount of peer pressure to drink and act like a bit of an eejit around the town. From certain quarters.
Overall though his experience was positive, he got to go to some cool places and he learned a lot about himself and people in general. I think he finds a lot of what he learned useful even now, in his office job- lot harder to get intimidated by some middle manager after that.

I would say to you that in my opinion (which is based on my brother's experiences) you shouldn't join on a whim. Do some research, certainly talk to the lads on here who are in the army, and talk to your family members who've served.
My brother rated the aussies well enough though- especially for some jungle fighting stuff.
I hope this helps- I can pester my brother to register and give you some better advice too, if you'd like. I will say, you're quite young, and going to Uni is awesome . I went when I was 17 and it was the best time of my life.

Joining the miltary is one of the most difficult choices there is to make.

My brother joined the US Navy right out of high school and now he works for the FAA as an Air Traffic Controller.

My Uncle served in the US Army during Vietnam as an Infantryman.

My grandfather served in the US Army during Korea as an engineer [I think].

My great-grandfather served in the US Army during WWII as an Infantryman.

The reason why I'm telling you all of this: Every one of them had their reasons for joining. And every one of them wouldn't change it if they could. Simply put, if you are interested, you should research it as much as you can. Talk to every recruiter you can find. Research it as much online as you can. Find people who are serving now, and ask them about it.

Just don't jump into it un-informed. It will only make you hate it and bitter.

I have to admit that I also feel a sense of devotion to my country. It's been supporting me for my entire life, so maybe I should give something back.

There are other ways.

Fire Service, Police, Ambulance Crew, Charity Work.

Taxes.

Indeed.

Personally, I don't get the whole 'you owe your country' thing. I had no say in where I was born, nor do I have a say in whether or not I pay the taxes set by my Government.

You shouldn't feel the need to risk your life and or sanity just to repay some largely non-existent debt.

And it's your Parents who have supported you all your life (unless of course you are unfortunate to be parentless, in which case I apologise for the seemingly flippant previous comment) not your country. They assumedly paid their taxes, which would have paid for your education.

Well my country let me live here, didn't it?

It's a very difficult issue for me. I know that there are a fair few military/former military personnel here (jp400 etc) and people who don't even like the military (MDG), so I figured I'd get some good opinions here. My mother thinks it's a good idea, and my brother wants me to go along because he did and got through it just fine (although he is 6'5").

Besides, the army isn't the only option, right? There's always the navy and air force.

Learn a trade.

If I had my time over, I would have trained to be a plumber or a sparky or a carpenter or something.

You go self employed, you earn a fortune, you have a set of skills that go everywhere with you.

Ugh, I don't want to learn a trade. I'd honestly rather be getting shot at in Afghanistan than laying bricks or fixing pipes.

I don't so much not like the Military, as not like the idea of me being in the Military, whether through recruitment or conscription.

Just giving you a point of view from someone who only briefly considered the Military, in so far as once upon a time, I wondered how I might cope, with the immediate answer being 'I wouldn't'

If there was no choice, e.g. a Taliban fighter pointing a gun at someone.

Not allways as simple or easy as that mate, rules od engagement have changed from the old times, making things alot harder.

Also, its not just fighteres that will bear arms.
You will find most women and children will pick up a dropped weapon at thier husbands / fathers orders.
so, your no longer targeting a trained fighter, your fighting someone who was a civillian up until that point.
either way, its your ass or thiers, once the weapon is aimed at you and they refuse to step back you have no choice but to fire.

Also, its not the physical aspect of it that causes problems, one of my old unit was a fething great runner and regular weightlifter.
after a tour of iraq he ended up hanging himself due to the stress of it, so its the psychological section of it you have to deal with.
fitness wise, its easy, 99% of people will get in.

Just make sure you have your mind and heart set on this before deciding, there is no going back until you have finished your designated time.
also, due to constant changing on plans, the tours are messed up, people who were on leave got dragged back, newer recruits have been brought in with less training, its a mess.
I would avoid it to be honest mate, ive only got 1 year left on the paper, then ill possibly sign up for a few more depending on how things go.

Are you a good student? Do you have any ways to fund a higher education?

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Personally, I don't get the whole 'you owe your country' thing. I had no say in where I was born, nor do I have a say in whether or not I pay the taxes set by my Government.

You shouldn't feel the need to risk your life and or sanity just to repay some largely non-existent debt.

And it's your Parents who have supported you all your life (unless of course you are unfortunate to be parentless, in which case I apologise for the seemingly flippant previous comment) not your country. They assumedly paid their taxes, which would have paid for your education.

I'm not sure you can have legitimate gratitude towards a government; everything you get from one has been taken from other people. If it gives you money, it was taken from tax payers, if it gives you a service, it was bought for you with money taken from tax payers, if it lets you use some of the country's land the land was here before the country, etc. Compassion is impossible from a government because it has nothing of its own to sacrifice, so why be grateful to the government itself?

I can see why a person would want to "serve their country" though. It's not serving the government itself, but trying to serve the people of the country (who actually gave you the things the government issued to you) through the government.

If you are in college now I'd say finish it if you can and then join. Your options in the military tend to be greater if you have a college degree. It also gives you time to consider it. Is there anything like Reserve Officers Training Corp (ROTC) in Australian schools? In the US you aren't committed to the military until between your 3rd and 4th year when you have to go to OSC. If there is that might let you get a taste of it and see where you stand.

It's a tough call Cheese,as JD21290 stated the psychological impact of combat can be staggering.
My Father served in Vietnam,when he came back he had a lot of problems,he had become very abbusive,had substance abuse problems,various other issues witch ultimatly led to he and my Mother seperating...it took him years to "get passed" alot of what happened when he was over there.
Several friend of mine have served in the mid-east (various areas),two have been wounded in action,all have been deeply affected by what they have witnessed.
I'd think long and hard about it Cheese,whatever you decide I wish you the best.

I was in the marines for ten years, and i can honestly say i dont feel i "owe" my country anything. I think the whole concept is ridiculous. I mean, what is "your country" its a system ran by slimy politicians. They make us pay taxes, and we dont get to choose where they get spent.

I joined cos i wanted to join. Oscar Wilde said that patriotism is the virtue of the viscious, and i think never a truer word was spoken. I bet people in the BNP, Klu Klux clan etc all think of themselves as "patriotic"

Join if YOU want to join. But you dont owe anybody anything. My dad has paid half a million pounds in taxes over 40 years, i cant help feel like the country owes us. Not the other way around!

Ahtman wrote:If you are in college now I'd say finish it if you can and then join. Your options in the military tend to be greater if you have a college degree. It also gives you time to consider it. Is there anything like Reserve Officers Training Corp (ROTC) in Australian schools? In the US you aren't committed to the military until between your 3rd and 4th year when you have to go to OSC. If there is that might let you get a taste of it and see where you stand.

College is the end of school here. What you guys call 'college', we call 'TAFE' and 'University'. Private schools are also called 'colleges' here. You get degrees for completing a TAFE/Uni course. When you finish college, you get your TCE, which basically your graduation certificate.

Why not join the Air Force, Navy, firefighting, coast guard, etc?

You don't necessarily have to be a grunt or join the military if you want to have a secure government job that also looks good on a resume.

Hell even in the Army and the Marines you can get a job that'll put you well out of harm's way.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
My vote is for one of those branches (Air Force, Navy), great way to get a career started.

FITZZ: Dont want to intrude mate, but even though your dads passed it now, i take it he still isnt how he used to be?

Ill admit, ive changed alot, death and dying around me mean little unless its one of my unit, who are pretty much my only family now.

even though you get passed it, your never the same, its something thats with you for life.

I would say it depends...
If you wanted to pursue the military as a long-term career, you'd be better off getting some form of higher education in order to qualify for officer training. You can be a fighter-pilot with 3 A levels (IIRC) in the UK.
Also, being Australian you could join the British military as a commonwealth citizen - although this would mean an increased chance of seeing active service in Afghanistan.
How fit are you? Australia has an SAS - they're pretty awesome, by all accounts.

The Australian SAS? Oh man, special forces are for the best of the best, aren't they? I'm no longer unfit, but nowhere near what would be expected by them.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Ahtman wrote:If you are in college now I'd say finish it if you can and then join. Your options in the military tend to be greater if you have a college degree. It also gives you time to consider it. Is there anything like Reserve Officers Training Corp (ROTC) in Australian schools? In the US you aren't committed to the military until between your 3rd and 4th year when you have to go to OSC. If there is that might let you get a taste of it and see where you stand.

College is the end of school here. What you guys call 'college', we call 'TAFE' and 'University'. Private schools are also called 'colleges' here. You get degrees for completing a TAFE/Uni course. When you finish college, you get your TCE, which basically your graduation certificate.

We call college Universities as well. There is a slight difference but usually they are used interchangeably. Either way, I think you understand what I am saying. Unless this is suddenly a thread about how words are used somewhat differently in different countries.

while the SAS is an option, the training is alot more advanced, its alot longer, and the tours of duty you do will be nowhere near the same.

In unit SAS are know as suicide drops, since they know theres a pretty high chance they wont be comming back.
To join the SAS you have not only got to be fit, but mentally unstable.
Im yet to see anyone join the SAS that doesent have a death wish or is even slightly stable.

dont get me wrong, im not slating them, they are an amazing unit, and the best in the world, but not really the best thing to throw yourself into.
They usually require you to have been in the forces 3+ years, and be within the top 10% of your unit before they will even consider taking you.
However, its not unknown for a new rec. to go straight into the unit.

I myself am happy with my tactical support role, its something i would reccomend if you do join, since you pretty much sit back, getting told what targets to pick out, what to watch for.
also, you get less recon duties, so out on tour you will spend more time in 1 place rather than walking around all day.

Yeah, I wouldn't want to be in the SAS anyway. If I was in the army, I'd be fine with a tactical support role.

You know what they should do? They should make a crack suicide squad, where if you survive the mission, they kill you anyway so you have nothing to lose.

That would be so grimdark.

I was just reading about the Coalition casualties in Afghanistan since 2001. The U.S. has had 848, and Australia has had 11.

I thought we'd lost a lot more than that.

JD21290 wrote:FITZZ: Dont want to intrude mate, but even though your dads passed it now, i take it he still isnt how he used to be?

Ill admit, ive changed alot, death and dying around me mean little unless its one of my unit, who are pretty much my only family now.

even though you get passed it, your never the same, its something thats with you for life.

No, he's nothing like he used to be,he's very distant and stoic,almost to a point of seeming emotionless (in 30 years he and I have spoken/visited maybe 20 times),when my Mother passed away he sent a card (very brief) ,no appearance at the funeral..no phone call,same thing when my Sister (his daughter) passed away.
I do my best to not judge him,as I havn't seen near the brutality he has,nor have I had to go through anything like he did.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:There are other ways.

Fire Service, Police, Ambulance Crew, Charity Work.

This.

The decision though, isn't something you can really ask for internet help on bud. It's not our life, and it might be the wrong idea to go on someone's life experiences for your own.
The best thing to do is to feel it out, talk to a recruiter and see what you can find out. Just remember: Their JOB is to get you to sign on the dotted line. They're not there to be your friend and coach you through everything. Some recruiters will be up front about it and answer you honestly. Others might not have that same moral fiber, and lie their ass off to get you in.

But going by what you've said...
If you're anti-war, you won't fit in. If you're fearful for your own life--you won't fit in well.
It's really that simple.

But if you want to be a journalist/freelance writer...there's a reason it's hard to break into. There's plenty of people who want to a fairly slack job like that. However, if you REALLY want a job that allows you to give something back...
Do what MDG suggested. Look into the police, look into EMT training, look into nursing, look into firefighting. They're rewarding jobs, if you have a needy streak for patriotism.

Do some research and make an informed decision. See: http://www.defencejobs.gov.au/army/Jobs/

Not all jobs in the military are combat oriented, and by no means does joining mean you will have to kill someone. I was in the US Army for 14 years and I was never put into a position where I had to kill someone. And I saw deployments to the Balkans, Kuwait, and Iraq.

You know what my reason for joining was? I wanted to get away from home and didn't know what I wanted to do. And when people say learn a trade, they don't mean learning how to lay bricks or pipe, or working on an engine. Some military jobs will get you computer certifications, business management skills, engineering skills, and communication skills.

Seriously, if it is on your mind, take a hard look at the opportunities they offer and ask some people who are actually in the AUS armed forces what it is like. Not a recruiter.

Yes it is....

Note that everything I know about the military is learnt from the documentary 'Starship Troopers'.
Watch it so you learn to kill bugs good.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Ugh, I don't want to learn a trade. I'd honestly rather be getting shot at in Afghanistan than laying bricks or fixing pipes.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with laying bricks or fixing pipes. Sounds like you have an attitude to me. To be honest I don't think the military is a good fit for you. You could easily end up doing something along the same lines.

G

And who didn't like building forts as a child?

Even soldiers question themselves if military was right for them.

If you have any doubt ( hence this thread )
then no military is NOT for you.

Its ironic really ( not just towards you ) , we grow up seeking freedom to do what we want , we defy what people tells us to do.

Yet you want to dive right into the military and obey orders like a good dog.

Its... just not suited for you really.

Whats going to happen ( the reality )

You will go into the military thinking its like some sort of Holy Crusade from God , that you are fighting for freedom , for rights.
Some where along the line you'll either realize wars are anything but a holy war , where there are really no difference between terrorist and freedom fighters.
Who is the opressed and who is the oppresser.

At the end of the day , you are just fighting for bunch of power hungry politicians.

Cheese, I'm guessing you've finished Year 12 recently, right? Wait for your HSC results, then decide if you can't get into the uni course you want. Although, I'm under the impression that it might be too late for the uni course...

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:Cheese, I'm guessing you've finished Year 12 recently, right? Wait for your HSC results, then decide if you can't get into the uni course you want. Although, I'm under the impression that it might be too late for the uni course...

No, I'm just about to finish year 10.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:Cheese, I'm guessing you've finished Year 12 recently, right? Wait for your HSC results, then decide if you can't get into the uni course you want. Although, I'm under the impression that it might be too late for the uni course...

No, I'm just about to finish year 10.

Why are you thinking of military already then?

Are there no professions that interests you?
You like warhammer? perhaps:

Arts
- Painter
- Illustraitor
- Sculptor

Writting Fluff

Game Designer

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:Cheese, I'm guessing you've finished Year 12 recently, right? Wait for your HSC results, then decide if you can't get into the uni course you want. Although, I'm under the impression that it might be too late for the uni course...

No, I'm just about to finish year 10.

Ahh. Finish year 12 then decide. You have two more years to think about things.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Yes it is....

Note that everything I know about the military is learnt from the documentary 'Starship Troopers'.
Watch it so you learn to kill bugs good.

Would you like to know more?

LunaHound wrote:
Why are you thinking of military already then?

Becuase it has a lot to offer young men and women? It isn't unusual for young adults to think about it. It isn't as if people only go into the military if they have failed at everything else. He just isn't sure it is for him at this point and that is reasonable. It is a big decision and shouldn't be taken lightly.

LunaHound wrote:Are there no professions that interests you?
You like warhammer? perhaps:

Arts
- Painter
- Illustraitor
- Sculptor

Writting Fluff

Game Designer

Same problem, if not more so, than the one he is considering. You don't just get a job as 'sculptor'. There are thousands of people competing for 2 or 3 jobs. That doesn't mean it can't be done of course but you have to be smart about it. I have a friend who went to art school and got a Bachelors in Arts in Sculpting. He has won several awards and has aculptures here and there over town at key locations. What is his job? Car painter and auto-body repair. It can take years, if ever, to break into these kinds of positions, even with serious talent.

Cheese, I think your friends and family would know better than us if you've got a personality that could work with the military life. Listen to what they have to say.

In general, I'd just point out you've got a lot of freedom and you will be able to change lifepaths a whole lot over the next 15 or 20 years. If you want to join the army you can do so straight out of highschool, then look to tertiary education when you come back. You can also do it the other way around. Or you could blow off both and spend a year or two bumming around Australia or even overseas, then come back to join either the army or go to uni.

Just don't feel worried that you're unsure what you want to do with your life, hardly anyone really knows at your age and the ones who do are boring, boring people. Just remember that whatever you pick, it won't be the one and only choice you ever get to make.

dogma wrote:Are you a good student? Do you have any ways to fund a higher education?

You don't need a scholarship to fund higher education in Australia. We have a scheme where you are accepted based on your highschool grades and then government will pick up the tab, and you accumulate a debt as you learn (even then the debt is only around 1/3 of the actual cost of education). You are only required to pay the debt off once you earn enough money after completing your degree.

Kanluwen wrote:The best thing to do is to feel it out, talk to a recruiter and see what you can find out. Just remember: Their JOB is to get you to sign on the dotted line. They're not there to be your friend and coach you through everything. Some recruiters will be up front about it and answer you honestly. Others might not have that same moral fiber, and lie their ass off to get you in.

It's a little different in Australia, as we don't have anywhere near the proportion of our population in the army, so there's less pressure to get new recruits. As a result we don't need to set targets for recruiters. A few friends who looked into the army said the recruiters were almost more discouraging than encouraging.

I still wouldn't believe everything they say, but it isn't like the US where the pressure of recruitment targets means you're likely to be outright lied to.

LunaHound wrote:
Whats going to happen ( the reality )

You will go into the military thinking its like some sort of Holy Crusade from God , that you are fighting for freedom , for rights.
Some where along the line you'll either realize wars are anything but a holy war , where there are really no difference between terrorist and freedom fighters.
Who is the opressed and who is the oppresser.

At the end of the day , you are just fighting for bunch of power hungry politicians.

Luna, that is pure conjecture. I know I didn't go into the military thinking that, and neither did a lot of the people I served with.


The one skill you will get out of military service that will help you greatly throughout life, is self-discipline. The key ingredient in achieving anything in life.

A lot of you say that if he has to ask, then he shouldn't do it. I think if he has to ask, then he should do it. He wants to get opinions and information to base his decision on, which I think is key to making any decision that is this life altering. You've got two years to decide, Cheese, look into it and get all the info you can before making a decision. Also, a lot can change in two years. You don't know where or what kind of person you will be in that time. So wait and see.

sebster wrote:
You don't need a scholarship to fund higher education in Australia. We have a scheme where you are accepted based on your highschool grades and then government will pick up the tab, and you accumulate a debt as you learn (even then the debt is only around 1/3 of the actual cost of education). You are only required to pay the debt off once you earn enough money after completing your degree.

Christ, why didn't I get 'lost' there 12 years ago?

I knew there was a reason I wanted to go to graduate school down there. Well, that and women with Australian accents.

dogma wrote:Christ, why didn't I get 'lost' there 12 years ago?

I knew there was a reason I wanted to go to graduate school down there.

The scheme isn't often available for graduate education, and furriners have to pay non-subsidised, and pay up front. Hitting up Japanese and Indian students is how we keep the whole system working. It's still a lot cheaper than the US as our costs per student head are lower, but the difference isn't that big unless you're a resident doing undergrad.

Well, that and women with Australian accents.

Australian accents are attractive? The women are hot, I'll agree to that, but the accents?

sebster wrote:Australian accents are attractive? The women are hot, I'll agree to that, but the accents?

There aren't any Australian accents in Chicago. It is exotic and therefore enticing.

sebster wrote:

dogma wrote:Well, that and women with Australian accents.

Australian accents are attractive? The women are hot, I'll agree to that, but the accents?

I am trying to think of a famous Australian chick... I am sure there are at least a few rather well known figures.

That said, I am not sure I follow either...

Claudia Black.

Ahtman wrote:

sebster wrote:Australian accents are attractive? The women are hot, I'll agree to that, but the accents?

There aren't any Australian accents in Chicago. It is exotic and therefore enticing.

This would be it.

Also, massive exposure to the Chicago accent has trained my ear to find anything not reminiscent of it attractive.

Have you considered doing a degree and having the army pay for it?

I've talked to my careers advisor about this and the army has this great program where you take a Uni course, and for every year you spend at Uni, you spend a year in the army after you finished your degree. (Then +1 for the Crown.) So if you do a 4 year course you serve 5 years in the army afterwards. (You DO get a normal salary.) After that the worlds your oyster.

This is what I'm planning to do. I'll do a 5 year Arts/Law course, serve 6 in the Army and after that I'm set for a career.

BTW Cheese, I'm not a Gung Ho, guns-galore type of guy. I don't want to die. And I certainly don't plan on it. I fear death as much as you do. And if you've got religeon, probably more.

Could I kill another human being? I can't speak from experience but if we were shooting at each other, I think so. Cold-blooded murder? Probably not.

As for those who say that we follow poloticians, it has long been Australias proudest tradition to mock these very fellows. I'm not signing up becuase of any polotician, I'll be signing up becuase of me, my family and (I can't beleive I'm saying this) my country. No country had any favours done for them by not having an army.

I'll just add this cheesy little footnote. I know what I'm gonna be, do YOU?

Ahtman wrote:Is there anything like Reserve Officers Training Corp (ROTC) in Australian schools?

Several universities have an Army Regiment attached to them - where although you are a reservist, when you finish you degree/ term with them, it's slightly easier to get into ADFA (Officer school - Australian Defence Forces Academy, aka "Duntroon" or the "head shed"), iirc (I never went officer. I joined at 18 and was still a corporal when I left 6 years later. Infantry to start with but took a sideways promotion to support (Qies) after blowing out my ACL on manoeuvres).

Going Army is a choice, not a last resort. It is not an easy choice. That said, going the reservist way is slightly easier.

Go to that Defence forces website.
Then go see a man with a uniform at one of the recruiting centres.

I know what I'm gonna be, do YOU?

Um, sorry to nit-pick - but I thought you DIDN'T. Isn't that the point of this thread?

I was just joking and trying to sound ultra-captain america-corny. At which I believe I suceeded.

I guess I should have put something like this up.




Except it would have this guy.

Yeah, I was only winding you up, mate!

Service Guarantees citizenship!

Would you like to know more?http://www.navy.mil/swf/index.asp

Just to echo other people- in the military there's a fair amount of dull manual labour. For example, digging an OP at night, or slogging for miles with a really, really heavy pack on your back at night. It's probably much harder work than being a tradesman, and waaaaay more dangerous. I definitely wouldn't reccomend it if you haven't got the work ethic and the morale.

So In Australia, do you leave school at Year 2, age 16?

Which would make Year 12, to be the same as Year 11 in Britain.

Which makes you 14

You should not be worrying if you got two years of hell, I mean school left.

You think school is bad wait until you leave, mate.

I hate school, Its full of dill weed chavs.


Anywhere is better then school.

Cheese what you say now? I think they should stick you in the navy and make you wear a sailor suit.

G

You think School sucks? Wait until you leave.

Now that sucks.

I have never felt a devotion to my country and I (no offense to anyone patriotic) in the war act like a sort of mercenary.I don't care about wars and their petty fights.

That's okay. I understand. You're from the US.

Emperors Faithful wrote:That's okay. I understand. You're from the US.

I'm not from the US.I'm from Europe or more specifically from balkans.My ip is fooling you.

IvanTih wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:That's okay. I understand. You're from Europe.

I'm not from the US.I'm from Europe or more specifically from balkans.My ip is fooling you.

Oh. In that case...fixed.

Lord-Loss wrote:So In Australia, do you leave school at Year 2, age 16?

Which would make Year 12, to be the same as Year 11 in Britain.

Which makes you 14

You should not be worrying if you got two years of hell, I mean school left.

No. Here, you start Grade 1 when you're six, and at the end of Grade 10 you're sixteen. College (last two years of government schooling) then goes on until age 18. Before Grade 1 there's Prep (age five), kindergarten (age four) and pre-school (age three).

(I'm in Grade 10, sixteen)

And you really don't have a clue coming here on the Internet asking strangers to decide your occupation. Sailor boy!

G

I say Cheese becomes an exotic dancer.

I mean, you'd make buttloads of monies.

I'm a 5'4" nerd with glasses and braces.

And you're suggesting exotic dancing as a career?

Oh come on Cheese,you might even be better than this....

Cheese Elemental wrote:I'm a 5'4" nerd with glasses and braces.

And you're suggesting exotic dancing as a career?

That makes you a rare choice, thus it might cater to some fetishes.

LunaHound wrote:
thus it might cater to some fetishes.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Lord-Loss wrote:So In Australia, do you leave school at Year 2, age 16?

Which would make Year 12, to be the same as Year 11 in Britain.

Which makes you 14

You should not be worrying if you got two years of hell, I mean school left.

No. Here, you start Grade 1 when you're six, and at the end of Grade 10 you're sixteen. College (last two years of government schooling) then goes on until age 18. Before Grade 1 there's Prep (age five), kindergarten (age four) and pre-school (age three).

(I'm in Grade 10, sixteen)

And they've changed the laws, so now you can't leave until you finish year 12, without a full time job

I hope you don't have an aversion to guns. Even if you don't see front-line combat you will have to learn to shoot one and be proficient in one.

Cheese Elemental wrote:I'm a 5'4" nerd with glasses and braces.

And you're suggesting exotic dancing as a career?

I'm 5'10" with glasses and I was able to pay for a semester of college working at a club that catered to the female clientele.

If nothing else, it's a buttload of fun. I highly suggest everyone try.

If you want to be a writer then go with that flow. I'm serious. What you need to do is this:

amass a lot of experience - the best writers have lots of experience with life. That doesn't mean you can't start writing now though.

travel a lot all over the place. You need to experience diferent cultures and see how people outside your country live. From what I've heard Australia is a lot like the US, both countries think the world revolves around them. Asia is closeby to you so get over there. You'll be glad you did and it will help you to appreciate your own country better.

Read novels as much as you can. Here are some classic authors I recommend - Ernest Hemingway, Edgar Allen Poe, William Faulkner. Go watch plays too. You have to learn how to craft dialogues.

start a journal. Write something down whenever the mood hits you.

Good luck with it.

G

Listen to GBF.

Most writers don't exclusively write. Writing isn't a job that really "pays the bills", unless you've hit it REALLY big.
Heck. Writing isn't even really a "job".

But don't let that discourage you. Just keep your head about you as you go into the field, and keep your expectations realistic.

And if you EVER write something like Twilight, may God have mercy upon your soul...

For Dakka's trolls won't.

I could see you as in the military. You seem like the Guy who can follows orders. Just dont bring a D6 for a saving throw.

Kilkrazy wrote:My father went into the RAF straight after technical college; he became a wireless technician. Part of his motive was to avoid National Service. He also got a good technical education which he later used as a technical author in the electronics industry.

He was posted all over the world; Gibraltar, Aden, Ceylon, India -- this was the 1950s of course -- and learned a hatred of card games and foreign travel.

My grandad did that, but kept his love of travelling, an now resides here, in Oz.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Well my country let me live here, didn't it?

It's a very difficult issue for me. I know that there are a fair few military/former military personnel here (jp400 etc) and people who don't even like the military (MDG), so I figured I'd get some good opinions here. My mother thinks it's a good idea, and my brother wants me to go along because he did and got through it just fine (although he is 6'5").

Besides, the army isn't the only option, right? There's always the navy and air force.

I am going Navy when I get fit and disciplined enough. That's what Karate's for

Albatross wrote:I would say it depends...
If you wanted to pursue the military as a long-term career, you'd be better off getting some form of higher education in order to qualify for officer training. You can be a fighter-pilot with 3 A levels (IIRC) in the UK.
Also, being Australian you could join the British military as a commonwealth citizen - although this would mean an increased chance of seeing active service in Afghanistan.
How fit are you? Australia has an SAS - they're pretty awesome, by all accounts.

The Oz SAS are off the fething chain. Raving loonies, by all accounts. Read a book written by some guy who was in it. He sounded crazy for even doing the training...

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:Cheese, I'm guessing you've finished Year 12 recently, right? Wait for your HSC results, then decide if you can't get into the uni course you want. Although, I'm under the impression that it might be too late for the uni course...

Isn't HSC just N.S.W.?

dogma wrote:

sebster wrote:
You don't need a scholarship to fund higher education in Australia. We have a scheme where you are accepted based on your highschool grades and then government will pick up the tab, and you accumulate a debt as you learn (even then the debt is only around 1/3 of the actual cost of education). You are only required to pay the debt off once you earn enough money after completing your degree.

Christ, why didn't I get 'lost' there 12 years ago?

I knew there was a reason I wanted to go to graduate school down there. Well, that and women with Australian accents.

It's true, we do sound awesome

Wrexasaur wrote:

sebster wrote:

dogma wrote:Well, that and women with Australian accents.

Australian accents are attractive? The women are hot, I'll agree to that, but the accents?

I am trying to think of a famous Australian chick... I am sure there are at least a few rather well known figures.

That said, I am not sure I follow either...

Nicole Kidman, Cate Blanchett.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Have you considered doing a degree and having the army pay for it?

I've talked to my careers advisor about this and the army has this great program where you take a Uni course, and for every year you spend at Uni, you spend a year in the army after you finished your degree. (Then +1 for the Crown.) So if you do a 4 year course you serve 5 years in the army afterwards. (You DO get a normal salary.) After that the worlds your oyster.

This is what I'm planning to do. I'll do a 5 year Arts/Law course, serve 6 in the Army and after that I'm set for a career.

BTW Cheese, I'm not a Gung Ho, guns-galore type of guy. I don't want to die. And I certainly don't plan on it. I fear death as much as you do. And if you've got religeon, probably more.

Could I kill another human being? I can't speak from experience but if we were shooting at each other, I think so. Cold-blooded murder? Probably not.

As for those who say that we follow poloticians, it has long been Australias proudest tradition to mock these very fellows. I'm not signing up becuase of any polotician, I'll be signing up becuase of me, my family and (I can't beleive I'm saying this) my country. No country had any favours done for them by not having an army.

I'll just add this cheesy little footnote. I know what I'm gonna be, do YOU?

Eugh. The restaurant I work at was full of pollies the other day, and they were having little speeches 'till after closing, and they got pissy at us when we started cleaning. Prats...

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:You think School sucks? Wait until you leave.

Now that sucks.

Da Boss wrote:You think school is bad wait until you leave, mate.

This is SO true.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Lord-Loss wrote:So In Australia, do you leave school at Year 2, age 16?

Which would make Year 12, to be the same as Year 11 in Britain.

Which makes you 14

You should not be worrying if you got two years of hell, I mean school left.

No. Here, you start Grade 1 when you're six, and at the end of Grade 10 you're sixteen. College (last two years of government schooling) then goes on until age 18. Before Grade 1 there's Prep (age five), kindergarten (age four) and pre-school (age three).

(I'm in Grade 10, sixteen)

That's in Taswhinier. Here (Canberra) we go Pre-school, Primary school (Kinder - 6), High School (7-10) and College (11 and 12).

Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:

And they've changed the laws, so now you can't leave until you finish year 12, without a full time job

Where the feth did you get that from? You can leave school after finishing year 9.

As for me, Navy is something I have wanted to do since I was about 8, so I am definately going to give that a shot.

Jimi Nemesis wrote:
Isn't HSC just N.S.W.?

Yep. It's the certificate for finishing your 12th year of schooling (and can be withheld in certain circumstances). This and a high enoug UAI (University admissions index) score, may allow you to get into a university course of your choice.
Other states call it something else. VCE I think is the Victorian one.

The leave school at 16 option (after 10th year) was called a "leaving certificate" and was primarily for those who had already sourced employment as they were needed to become a breadwinner (originally). This is being phased out in NSW at least for several reasons.

It keeps them in school longer, and a burden on their parents.
It keeps them out of the official "unemployment" statistics (certain areas have high youth unemployment).

Unfortunately, the ones who leave early are the ones who don't usually want to be there any longer. They would probably be more disruptive if "made" to be there, so any net gain is a maybe at best for them. OTOH, the government saves money on not having to pay JSA (Job Seekers Allowance - our 'giro'/dole) but has to spend extra on school budgets.