Info can be found here: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=§ion=&pIndex=0&aId=14700053&start=1

I think it's a good idea. It's also nice for them to compile a list of all the big events over the next year and a half.

Oh how it sucks to live in the Southeast and be into 40k tournament gaming. First one within 300 miles is January 2011. Although I guess there is always Ard' Boyz again next summer.

The pickings are pretty slim for Upper Midwest and East Coast players. Kind of a bummer really. Seems the majority are all in TX and west of the Rockies.

I'm loving this. it will definitely get me to more indy GTs. I already see three I'm 100% attending. And then an invitational to get excited about if you qualify.

Dinner with Jervis.

So anyways it looks like GW has decided to go full WAAC now.

G

Hopefully they can add a few events on the east coast

It's looking like many of us will have to travel if you want to assure yourself a spot in Vegas. 'Less you get lucky and smash everyone on your first outing.

"Dinner with Jervis Johnson on the Final Night"

Ooooh, win a date with JJ!

Ozymandias wrote:"Dinner with Jervis Johnson on the Final Night"

Ooooh, win a date with JJ!

I can see it now, JJ sits down at the table with the winner of the Vegas 40k Tournament.

This winner is a competetive FOOL!

"So, Jervis, 40k isnt meant to be played competetively, huh?.....*chews food loudly with mouth open*"......

Hmmm, a dinner with Jervis? I think a Dakkite has to win and do nothing but make snide comments the entire time.
Jervis-"So, what did you think of the tournament?"
Dakkite-"I think it was nice, but there weren't enough babies for us WAAC TFG's"
Jervis-"...okay. Could you please pass the salt?"
Dakkite-"Sure you want me to hand it to you? I might infect it with WAACitis."

Now I have to focus on painting! If only they gave an invite to Best Overall & Best General. I usually max out at about 35 points on painting.

* sighs *

Exactly one event north of Baltimore. Way to cover the Northeast, guys. Phoenix and Dallas get TONS of love.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:Exactly one event north of Baltimore. Way to cover the Northeast, guys. Phoenix and Dallas get TONS of love.

St. Valentines Day Massacre in Media, PA (Philadelphia) in Feb. 2010
Da Boyz GT in Rochester, NY, in Oct. 2010
Mechanicon in Westchester PA (Philadelphia) in Nov. 2010
St. Valentines Day Massacre in Media, PA (Philadelphia) in Feb. 2011

(Because the first 'season' runs June-June, + the first six months of 09, Some cons will occur twice in this 'season'. )

So you get to go to 4 on the East coast north of Baltimore. Feel better? Hope you like Philly.

It didn't list the states, so the only one I recognized was Rochester. Still, I'm north of Boston - Philly is still less than convenient.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:It didn't list the states, so the only one I recognized was Rochester. Still, I'm north of Boston - Philly is still less than convenient.

Hey, I doing my part. You want something closer, you'll have to convince someone up that way.)

"Dinner with Jervis Johnson on the Final Night"

I know what I'm putting up on Ebay.

Dinner with JJ? I would actually give that one to H.B.M.C. on the condition that he records it.

I actually got to have dinner with Jervis a couple of years ago. It was after Baltimore games day, at the Hardrock. Wandered over, and ran into Ernie Baker, who heads up the US, and then Jervis joined us. We were the only 3 not clued in that the rest of the boys were in another part of the place.)

WoW! I don't think I can follow that, so I'll let it go . . .

So - Midwest options are:

Chicago and Dallas - both 8 hours away.

Seems like a good time to start playing LotR as the odds go up significantly.

I'd bring a D6 with me, and if we got into an argument during the dinner or even had a slightly differing opinion, I'd offer to D6 it.

hahahahahhaha.. at HBMC


The true face of a win at all cost player.

What moron wrote that schedule?!?!? Great if you are out west but holy crap...nothing in the SE at all? I know a few vendors that wanted to run events but apparently they got the boot. Well Mike I guess I will have to make sure my Philly/Rochester move goes off without a hitch this year hehe.

This is a neat idea but not very well configured. I am sooooooo disapointed in how this turned out.

WOow, only 6 hours from the closest one. ><

Fishboy wrote:What moron wrote that schedule?!?!? Great if you are out west but holy crap...nothing in the SE at all? I know a few vendors that wanted to run events but apparently they got the boot. Well Mike I guess I will have to make sure my Philly/Rochester move goes off without a hitch this year hehe.

This is a neat idea but not very well configured. I am sooooooo disapointed in how this turned out.

My hope is that someone in the areas that don't have events either steps up and starts running something, or events in the area contact GW and get onto the circuit. This wasn't written to cover the country, it just used the events available to GW, that wanted to be on the circuit, and that got in communication with them.

Either way, get your butt moving, and get up here, so we can start getting in some games and beers. I won't blow you off next time for my daughters cheerleading next time, promise.) With your painting skills, you need to win about 3 out of 5 games to place first. I was blown away looking at your stuff when you came by the store.

I think a lot of people see some events out west and think they are close together.

If you think that, you would be wrong. What you don't know is that the distances in the west are a lot larger than in the East. Boston is closer to Philadelphia than LA is to Phoenix.

i'm lucky that I have an event in my town of rochester... and mechanicon isn't THAT far south. is quite cool.

Blackmoor wrote:I think a lot of people see some events out west and think they are close together.

If you think that, you would be wrong. What you don't know is that the distances in the west are a lot larger than in the East. Boston is closer to Philadelphia than LA is to Phoenix.

Yep. I grew up in Northern California.
People find out and say crap like "oh, you must have loved going to Disneyland" Yeah, after a 13 hour drive, it rocks.
"Did you go to the beach much?" Nope, 5 hours of driving each way just somehow wasn't a fun excursion.

Distances are huge out west.

Simple solution is that more people and clubs need to run tournaments.

I hear Team Toledo is already building a shelf for their trophy.







Greg, you are welcome

sparks aint gak... I could beat him with both hands tied behind my back.

the last time we played, I decided to let him win, because he looked so forlorn and sad.

you heard me. I threw the last round of a tournament just because i'm a nice guy.

Greyhound buslines is your friend!

It wouldn't be so bad if the Necro in Orlando and Redneck Rampage hadn't called it quits. They should do a GT there as well so all of us 40k players/gamblers can hang out.

Hey, does anyone have commentary on the nature and quality of Avalon Game Convention events?

I notice that they're behind all of these Con-Quests. I checked their site, but found little info on the company other than a brief staff list. I wonder if that "Mondo" is Don Mondo?

Regardless, I'm going to get my hiney in gear and hope to see other Pacific NWers at the Seattle event in January. Anyone else going to that?

Can anyone tell me if theres gonna be more events in North West England?

Man, the first time I get an indy GT in my home town (Fayetteville), I'm in Iraq.

Then again, I'm assuming it means Fayetteville, NC.

Looks like a very positive step in the right direction. Should be a good year.

The balance of the schedule is off mainly due to the Conquest series of events. If someone could get hooked up with HMGS-East or other convention series .. .. that would even out a bit.

As for the Necro and Redneck Ramage or any other event for that matter. Running a high caliber event once is harder than most people can imagine let along running it year after year. Hats off for doing it while you can.

-Hank

Thats true. Most people dont understand how much money is required out of your own pocket and how little money you make in return. I had heard the redneck was taking a year off but I did not know the Necro was dead too. I passed Exterminatus off to another group of people and have heard nothing about it but if they can get their act together we were an official indy last year. I still can not believe they did not take the Maul at the Mall in Chattanooga. Can events still be added or is this locked?

Savnock wrote:Hey, does anyone have commentary on the nature and quality of Avalon Game Convention events?

I notice that they're behind all of these Con-Quests. I checked their site, but found little info on the company other than a brief staff list. I wonder if that "Mondo" is Don Mondo?

Regardless, I'm going to get my hiney in gear and hope to see other Pacific NWers at the Seattle event in January. Anyone else going to that?

I believe the 'mondo' is Mondo Vega. Don Mondo is down in the DC area with the IFL.

Ketara wrote:Dinner with JJ? I would actually give that one to H.B.M.C. on the condition that he records it.

I'll save everyone the effort and provide the transcript.

(Jervis) "So."

[long pause]

(HBMC) "So."

[one-and-a-half hours of uncomfortable silence follow]

Fishboy wrote:. I still can not believe they did not take the Maul at the Mall in Chattanooga. Can events still be added or is this locked?

I think it's not necessarily set in stone, although it might be for this year. Not sure. But I'll find out for you. Meeting up with Ed in a couple hours and talking mostly about the tournament schedule.

You really need to get that move done to this area so I can put you to work...uh, I mean so you can come play in my wonderful events

Savnock wrote:Hey, does anyone have commentary on the nature and quality of Avalon Game Convention events?

I notice that they're behind all of these Con-Quests. I checked their site, but found little info on the company other than a brief staff list. I wonder if that "Mondo" is Don Mondo?

Regardless, I'm going to get my hiney in gear and hope to see other Pacific NWers at the Seattle event in January. Anyone else going to that?

I played in last years conquest NW.
it was fairly well run for a major first year event.
1. The painting scoring was all over the board but if you pointed out why you should have higher they would re-judge.
2. they had 2 hour games for 1850. With little time between start and the posting so most people where still moving when the clock started and lots of games didn't finish.
3. the event is really close to the airport aka you could walk but they do have a shuttle bus.
4. I am playing as is Inquistor malice(Sparks). Blackmoor was considering coming up.

this year should be better as they are added more terrian and ironing out the kinks.
The WFB side was pretty thin last year.

Stupid stupid stupid. Making the most successful GT invite only? I guess I get that they want to make it a really special event, but it cuts out a huge number of their customers. I have a real life and few events near me, and I generally don't do that well at the tournaments, so there is no chance I'll get invited.

And I was really looking forward to blowing a couple hundred bucks to go to the LVGT again. Way to lose money GW.

Buckethead wrote:Stupid stupid stupid. Making the most successful GT invite only? I guess I get that they want to make it a really special event, but it cuts out a huge number of their customers. I have a real life and few events near me, and I generally don't do that well at the tournaments, so there is no chance I'll get invited.

And I was really looking forward to blowing a couple hundred bucks to go to the LVGT again. Way to lose money GW.

news flash you can't buy your way into the ukgt final either. sure it is easier to get into the uk final. I think this is a great idea. it really helps all these events drag people in which is good for the hobby. I have started toconsider going to places like gotacon in victoria BC, since it is a smaller event and have a better chance of getting through. you are right the casual gamer has little chance to go to vegas. instead go to the convention in vegas, if your heart is set on vegas

What would be great, is if all these events got together and standardized a few things. Like point size, and maybe a generally accept set of scenarios.

instead go to the convention in vegas, if your heart is set on vegas

Which convention? Is GW doing a game convention in Vegas?

Heres my problem from what I read(or misread if im wrong please tell me), but all this is well rather against the overall hobby that GW has produced. They really are pushing for the WAAC and it's annoying as this defames the hobby as all incompassing. So for the excellent modeller /painter even thoughhey the dice didnt fly the way one would hope or well their tactics suck they dont get the recognition form GW that they deserve as much as the overall winners. The good sportsman who was a blast to play against and really made the tourney worth going to for you is also outcasted. I personally will go to some of these events on the list as hell they are a blast like adepticon, and astronomicon but to name a few, but I can say for all certainty if I "Won" overall I would tell GW to shove it as I care less about their event and more about the rock solid fun events that recognise all aspects of the hobby. Ok rant and rave somewhat over.

P.S: I honestly feel this is more reason/proof that GW has gone downhill and it sadens me. If it were not for the fun gamers I play with I would just say screw them and go back fully to historicals or something else.

So does this mean they will have a standardized set of FAQ's for all to use/read?

Or are they going to default and use the Int FAQ again?

Just remember too theres a couple more in Texas that aren't on the list. Keep in mind though, its a big state. We drove from West Texas to the Bayou Battle in Houston - 12 hour trip. BIG state.

Shifting from "official" events to "indy" events does not mean that you cannot enjoy attending a tournament. Each of the events listed on the new circuit has different rules, prices and venues. While there may be something for every level from large one day events to two day GT's that are as good or better than GW's, or from a fire hall to a hotel convention center, you may have to travel more to get to one. GW obviously is moving in a different direction with the focus of tournaments being Indy events and one Games Day, and I believe the new team has got a great plan with what they have to work with.

As far as I know, GW did not set up these venues. It is in the hands of people who love the hobby and have the desire to provide events to their fellow gamers. The folks who stepped up and have offered to take the reigns will be providing your tournaments. Some are established for years and others are brand new. We do have an official schedule and details well over a month before the circuit starts so we do have a good amount of time to prepare armies.

When the announcement came in the beginning of April that the GT's were canceled I jumped into planning MechaniCon and we were able to get our event off BEFORE the new circuit started. Our entire club pitched in to make it happen and all of us gave up our play time for months, lots of money, and lots of labor to make it happen. Now that we have had a successful event we can finally relax a little before it is time to start working on next year. We are helping others get their events off the ground with advice, use of our tables and scenery, and more.

Other clubs are doing the same thing and we need to support their events to make sure they can offer tournaments in the future. While you initially may not have a good reaction to this new circuit, please remember that it is what we have to work with, so let's make it the best we can! I can only hope that lots of other folks are inspired to start doing events so we get a chance to go play.

So much for catching up on sleep... time to work on my army for the St. Valentine's Day Massacre.

CONQUEST ARMEGEDDON is in Vegas
neoncon is in vegas
followed by conquest armegeddon 2011.

I hope they DO NOT set up standard rules and points. because there are some awesome events on the list. that really mess with the waac players.

events with high painting percentages or messed up missions add flavor to the season.

mikhaila wrote:

Manfred von Drakken wrote:Exactly one event north of Baltimore. Way to cover the Northeast, guys. Phoenix and Dallas get TONS of love.

St. Valentines Day Massacre in Media, PA (Philadelphia) in Feb. 2010
Da Boyz GT in Rochester, NY, in Oct. 2010
Mechanicon in Westchester PA (Philadelphia) in Nov. 2010
St. Valentines Day Massacre in Media, PA (Philadelphia) in Feb. 2011

(Because the first 'season' runs June-June, + the first six months of 09, Some cons will occur twice in this 'season'. )

So you get to go to 4 on the East coast north of Baltimore. Feel better? Hope you like Philly.

I will also agree with the above. I'm blessed that I live very close to media/showcase comics which is an excellent store with a good mix of gamers. That being said Mikhaila is familiar with the club I game out of, plus there are additionally a couple clubs in the region. We are all used to car pooling and linking up to drive the 2-4 hours for events. It comes with the Gamer GT hat. Your going to drive, your going to travel. The benefit of it is seeing armies and meeting people that will inspire you to better your gaming and painting.

If you don't like traveling simple solution: Run an event. Most events are run by 2-3 guys. Get the word out on your event, look for the 50 guys to attend, rent a hall or empty store for the day and Game On! If you don't know where to start put up a post, I think you'll be surprised at the input you get from people here.

Empchild wrote:Heres my problem from what I read(or misread if im wrong please tell me), but all this is well rather against the overall hobby that GW has produced. They really are pushing for the WAAC and it's annoying as this defames the hobby as all incompassing. So for the excellent modeller /painter even thoughhey the dice didnt fly the way one would hope or well their tactics suck they dont get the recognition form GW that they deserve as much as the overall winners. The good sportsman who was a blast to play against and really made the tourney worth going to for you is also outcasted.

P.S: I honestly feel this is more reason/proof that GW has gone downhill and it sadens me. If it were not for the fun gamers I play with I would just say screw them and go back fully to historicals or something else.

What on earth are you talking about? Do you even know the rules for these tournaments? Do you think they are all 'Ard Boyz format?

Here are the rules to the first 2 out of 3 events (the ones that I might be going to)

Conquest NW scores 100 points for battle, 50 points for painting/conversions.
http://www.con-quest.com/

The Broadside Bash has 100 points for battle, 36 points for player judged Comp!!!, 50 points of player judged sportsmanship, 33 points in painting. So only 100 out of 200 points are from battle.
http://www.broadsidebash.com/rules.php

I am sure that most other events will have similar rules, so please, read the rules to these events.

Timmah wrote:What would be great, is if all these events got together and standardized a few things. Like point size, and maybe a generally accept set of scenarios.

I disagree. The heart of the independent tournament scene is that they are different, not cookie cutter. Different clubs and groups run different style events.

Realize that GW are not creating a national tournament system, with cookie cutter events that lead to a national tournament. What they have done is offered support to independent tournaments, and as one of the perks of being on the circuit, you can send 2 people to the national event.

To standardize all the events would simply mean 2/3 of the people running them would say "feth that", and quit doing them. Lots of work, time, energy, and sometimes your own money out of your pocket. Putting people in straight jackets on how to run their events would simply kill them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Uriels_Flame wrote:So does this mean they will have a standardized set of FAQ's for all to use/read?

Or are they going to default and use the Int FAQ again?

Again, GW is supporting independent events. Independent. It's up to the TO of each event.

Blackmoor wrote:

Empchild wrote:Heres my problem from what I read(or misread if im wrong please tell me), but all this is well rather against the overall hobby that GW has produced. They really are pushing for the WAAC and it's annoying as this defames the hobby as all incompassing. So for the excellent modeller /painter even thoughhey the dice didnt fly the way one would hope or well their tactics suck they dont get the recognition form GW that they deserve as much as the overall winners. The good sportsman who was a blast to play against and really made the tourney worth going to for you is also outcasted.

P.S: I honestly feel this is more reason/proof that GW has gone downhill and it sadens me. If it were not for the fun gamers I play with I would just say screw them and go back fully to historicals or something else.

What on earth are you talking about? Do you even know the rules for these tournaments? Do you think they are all 'Ard Boyz format?

Here are the rules to the first 2 out of 3 events (the ones that I might be going to)

Conquest NW scores 100 points for battle, 50 points for painting/conversions.
http://www.con-quest.com/

The Broadside Bash has 100 points for battle, 36 points for player judged Comp!!!, 50 points of player judged sportsmanship, 33 points in painting. So only 100 out of 200 points are from battle.
http://www.broadsidebash.com/rules.php

I am sure that most other events will have similar rules, so please, read the rules to these events.

and please read the post too. I said If I am wrong please tell me as this is my interpitation of it. Instead NERD RAGGGGGE. Though I do like the idea someone posted on doing your own and as such I finally feel it's time to do this so not to thread jack but check out http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/266361.page

I am really looking forward to playing as many as I can, even if I cannot paint worth mentioning.

njpc wrote:
If you don't like traveling simple solution: Run an event. Most events are run by 2-3 guys. Get the word out on your event, look for the 50 guys to attend, rent a hall or empty store for the day and Game On! If you don't know where to start put up a post, I think you'll be surprised at the input you get from people here.

I can vouch for that statement. I was able to receive lots of advice from other TO's and many companies. As I have been saying for months, do not be afraid to ask! Whether it is about support, building advice, or even how to handle payments at the door, you will be surprised how helpful your community peers will be.

Hey, does anyone have commentary on the nature and quality of Avalon Game Convention events?

I notice that they're behind all of these Con-Quests. I checked their site, but found little info on the company other than a brief staff list. I wonder if that "Mondo" is Don Mondo?

Yeah not Don Mondo, Mondo Vega. I made the same mistake last year

Although the ConquestNW GT is being offered by Avalaon Game conventions, they aren't really running it. A local group of gamers is running it. They haven't had any other GT style tournaments at the other conventions that I know of and I am really interested to see what they do for all these cons they have scheduled. Hope someone in those areas volunteers to run the the thing? If the fellas running ConquestNW GT hadn't stepped up last year it woulda been a flop (there was 0 info and rules a month before the tournament, as an example).

Regardless, I'm going to get my hiney in gear and hope to see other Pacific NWers at the Seattle event in January. Anyone else going to that?

Some friends and I are coming over from the east side of the state. Didn't make it last year but know a handfull that did. Heard of some rough edges as skipper mentions but overall a successful event for having little planning time. Hoping the year of planning shows this time around.

Also there's a ton of circuit events in the PacNW area, kinda amazing really. 3 Conquests (Seattle, Portland, VancouverBC), SpoCon, Astronomicon Vancouver, GottaCon in VictoriaBC. Plus there's some in Edmonton even. Hoping to make a couple over the 18 months season.

Astronomicon is by all accounts the best indy GT I have ever been too. I can not wait to visit one of the ones those two guys run in the rest of canada as they always put on a great event. Lots of cool awards, and GREAT social climate.

Astronomicon is by all accounts the best indy GT I have ever been too. I can not wait to visit one of the ones those two guys run in the rest of canada as they always put on a great event. Lots of cool awards, and GREAT social climate.

QFT. Christian and Mike run an awesome and well tuned event. Been to Vancouver astro twice and it is a blast. Definitely not a WAAC event. I am biased though (won Best Sportsmanship this year).

Grats I took 2nd in vancouver on best sportsman in 2006. Was hard as I was hopped up on pain killers at the time due to immense back pain(old infantry days I tell ya). All in all though look forward to going to more of their events.

Savnock wrote:Hey, does anyone have commentary on the nature and quality of Avalon Game Convention events?

I notice that they're behind all of these Con-Quests. I checked their site, but found little info on the company other than a brief staff list. I wonder if that "Mondo" is Don Mondo?

Regardless, I'm going to get my hiney in gear and hope to see other Pacific NWers at the Seattle event in January. Anyone else going to that?

Okay, time for my rant. Mondo is Mondo Vega, who is all about making $ with his conventions. Last year there was Conquest NW, run by a volunteer group. A couple of issues occurred during the 40k tournament:

1. There is only a prize for Best Overall, Best General, Best Appearance, and Best Sportsman (From the rules it looks like they are doing away with Player's Choice). Yeah, you heard it, Second Best Overall & you get NOTHING unless you were the Best General, Best Sportsman, or Best Appearance. Every other tournament I've played in gives prizes to the 2nd & 3rd overall, if not 2nd & 3rd for every category. At least you'll get an invite to the Vegas GT if you finish 2nd this year.

2. Best Appearance had a different army that he used to get his paint scores up then the one that he played. (They adjusted the rules this year)

3. The pairing system used had some flaws, and because of that a lot of games started late. I had one friend only make it through 3 turns in one game because of the issues.

4. The scoring for Apperance was all over the board, some people were offered rescores and got them, while others did not have the opportunity.

I had signed up to go to the ConQuest Oregon event back in October, which was canceled the week before it was suppose to happen.

If I had an alternative I'd go instead, but having an Indy GT take place a half hour from my house means I'm going to go. But that being said, I'd much rather give my money to Zen at TSFT or the SCGL at the SoCal Slaughter.

However, you still get 5 games of 40k against some good players, which for me, is really what a GT is about.

mikhaila wrote:

Timmah wrote:What would be great, is if all these events got together and standardized a few things. Like point size, and maybe a generally accept set of scenarios.

I disagree. The heart of the independent tournament scene is that they are different, not cookie cutter. Different clubs and groups run different style events.

Realize that GW are not creating a national tournament system, with cookie cutter events that lead to a national tournament. What they have done is offered support to independent tournaments, and as one of the perks of being on the circuit, you can send 2 people to the national event.

To standardize all the events would simply mean 2/3 of the people running them would say "feth that", and quit doing them. Lots of work, time, energy, and sometimes your own money out of your pocket. Putting people in straight jackets on how to run their events would simply kill them.

I said the event people should get together. Even if its just agreeing on a "standard" point total. Basically GW is just saying hey, if you win an event you can come to our 1 GT. Because we can't bother to do anything more.

Also, I love how all tournament gamers got labeled as WAAC gamers in this thread.

Help me out. People are complaining because its a sort of Big 16 event? People have been asking for something like this for years-an invite style best of the best. I'm no GW fan but really, you're whining over this?

Personally we need to have pact to report HBMC winning seven tournaments, then have everyone throw their games, just so he has dinner with Jervis. We'll have cameras rolling and security standing by.

People are complaining because its a sort of Big 16 event?

People are complaining because it's the internet. That is what you do on the internet.

I thought the internet was for porn?

Timmah wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

Timmah wrote:What would be great, is if all these events got together and standardized a few things. Like point size, and maybe a generally accept set of scenarios.

I disagree. The heart of the independent tournament scene is that they are different, not cookie cutter. Different clubs and groups run different style events.

Realize that GW are not creating a national tournament system, with cookie cutter events that lead to a national tournament. What they have done is offered support to independent tournaments, and as one of the perks of being on the circuit, you can send 2 people to the national event.

To standardize all the events would simply mean 2/3 of the people running them would say "feth that", and quit doing them. Lots of work, time, energy, and sometimes your own money out of your pocket. Putting people in straight jackets on how to run their events would simply kill them.

I said the event people should get together. Even if its just agreeing on a "standard" point total. Basically GW is just saying hey, if you win an event you can come to our 1 GT. Because we can't bother to do anything more.

Also, I love how all tournament gamers got labeled as WAAC gamers in this thread.

Why bother to standardize anything? Really, how would you? I'm running 3 events on that circuit. It's a ton of money, time, and effort put forth by me and my group. We get some help from GW, we get to send two people to another event. Why should my event influence other tournaments? Why should other ones dictate what I run? And how would we 'get together' and decide? Put 70 of us in a cage and fight it out, winner decides the format?)

One of the events for WFB that we are going to run is 2999 points. It's the defining part of the tournament, and came about because it was what a group of very skilled veteran players wanted to see happen. This year we get to run it again, and with GW support. If we had to make it comply with some standard, it wouldn't happen.

Not trying to dump on you, it's just that standardizing these events is the exact opposite of the spirit behind them. Gamers who love the hobby running tournaments for other gamers. Different formats, different ideas.

Empchild wrote:
and please read the post too. I said If I am wrong please tell me as this is my interpitation of it. Instead NERD RAGGGGGE.

You are the only one with Nerd Rage. Your nerd rage made you make a statment that was ignorant and false.

I had to waste my time to do reseach and look for links for scoring of the different tournaments to prove that you were wrong. If you took your time and checked to see if you were right, you would not waste my time instead of saying "I might be wrong". Next time look to see if you are wrong before posting.

Blackmoor wrote:

Empchild wrote:
and please read the post too. I said If I am wrong please tell me as this is my interpitation of it. Instead NERD RAGGGGGE.

You are the only one with Nerd Rage. Your nerd rage made you make a statment that was ignorant and false.

I had to waste my time to do reseach and look for links for scoring of the different tournaments to prove that you were wrong. If you took your time and checked to see if you were right, you would not waste my time instead of saying "I might be wrong". Next time look to see if you are wrong before posting.

so your saying I wasted your time huh_ ok truthfully I care less but I do find it funny that you wrote that.So back on topic yep still think this is a bad idea of gw's, but I am just one so take it however you want and bash me I really care less. I do get a laugh that and some enjoyment out of you wasting time on me.. kinda makes me feel special I read your blog and I understand your a hardcore tourney player I am too, but I still dont overall like the way they are doing this as Ithink it's cool they found a way to include the indy gt's into theirs but I feel they arent targeting the other wins their. I am saying just because you win overall does not mean that you are the end all be all. Honestly it means hey in the end the dice played well for me being no matter how you argue it you can have all the strategy in the world but if the dice constantly role ones on your too hit then it does yo ulittle good if you catch what im saying?

Empchild wrote: it does yo ulittle good if you catch what im saying?

Not in the slightest.

Ozymandias wrote:

Empchild wrote: it does yo ulittle good if you catch what im saying?

Not in the slightest.

Ditto on that. Read it a couple of times to see if I was missing something. Correct use of spaces between words, correct spelling, and, oh hell, i dunno, logic? are things that would make that post easier to read.

what are the odds that gw will put up links to these tournaments?

Sigh in the end it means dice wins the day. Is that simplistic enough? No matter how good you are as a player if your dice role bad well your "skills" won't matter at all. As such this means that their is a strong bit of luck since well it's a dice game. That said I am stating that maybe they should have sportsmanship should be included because that is the most important I feel more then anything. Is that simplistic enough for you because I really can't dumb this down any further?

No, because your posts are a strain to read. Proper sentence structure and punctuation would greatly help.

What you are saying has little to pertain to the debate at hand. All you are doing is shooting at something like sentence structure because you have no actually arguement to what I posted. If you do state it and we can discuss it otherwise im done posting about this because you are derailing the thread. The end point is I much like others do not agree with GW's actions. Now if you have something legit to say then say it otherwise dont say anything just pm me.

Empchild wrote:Sigh in the end it means dice wins the day. Is that simplistic enough? No matter how good you are as a player if your dice role bad well your "skills" won't matter at all. As such this means that their is a strong bit of luck since well it's a dice game. That said I am stating that maybe they should have sportsmanship should be included because that is the most important I feel more then anything. Is that simplistic enough for you because I really can't dumb this down any further?

I disagree with you.

I do think that sometimes when you are facing a player who is of equal caliber, with an equal army, that there are times when the game comes down to a critical dice roll or two, but for the most part dice so not play that large of a factor in who wins or loses a game unless one player gets incredibly lucky/unlucky.

Although you may not like the tournament circuit, and I have some problems with it as well, at least I see it as a beginning, and it is better than nothing. Hopefully they will improve on it, and make it better each year.

GW is not running their own GT's and instead is using that money to support 70 events, and then running one invitiational event. Those 70 independent events will produce a broad variety of tournaments and other events, all across the country. Not just in 4 places. The control of those events is in the hands of hobbyists and gamers.

It's noted that you disagree with what they are doing. Everyone I know is hugely excited about next year.

im not saying by any account that I will boycott the tourney being as I love to go to these indy events and meet new gamers and at times I do meet some bad ones but overall I have had a lot of great games at these events. Plus I do believe in healthy competition and I feel if we spend all this time on our models why shouldnt we show them off and maybe want some awards to put a little claim to fame for our hard work. And Blackmoore I agree it is better then nothing I just feel overall they maybe they could have done say best sport and best overall as at the minimum this is what the hobby means to me and many others.

Empchild wrote:I just feel overall they maybe they could have done say best sport and best overall as at the minimum this is what the hobby means to me and many others.

It's quite possible that if a TO wanted to set it up that way, they probably could. That's going to be up to the TO to work it out with Ed Spettigue, and GW.
Having spent 5 hours with him today discussing the circuit, I have to say that he has some very good ideas, was easy to work with, and very accomodating.

I for one am thankful that GW is doing SOMETHING.

Whether you like this system or not, you have to admit that it adds spice to this years tournaments.

You dont really need standardisation. So the top guy from Adepticon's Gladiator (with forge world) goes up against the Ard Boy's champion (2500pt games). I think its safe to say that WHATEVER standard Vegas will be using for the 40k tournament...it will still be 40k. The two winners from those two tournaments obviously know 40k so it should be a decent game.

We're gaming with toy soldiers here. I dont care about exact standardisation across the entire circuit. I'm just looking to go to a tournament and have fun playing, trying to get to vegas, and if I get to vegas, try to have dinner with Jervis.

....so I can tell him about how competetiveness is indeed part of this hobby, and be living proof.

Just be glad GW is doing SOMETHING instead of ignoring us tournament goers completely like they did over this year.

I'm thankful for the attempt, perhaps it will improve over time.

Deadshane1 wrote:I for one am thankful that GW is doing SOMETHING.

Whether you like this system or not, you have to admit that it adds spice to this years tournaments.

I'm thankful for the attempt, perhaps it will improve over time.

Good chance that things will improve, based on the feedback given. Each of the indie tournament organizers is now part of a loose group that GW can use as a sounding board, and get feeback from. Very good move on their part, as it' a direct line to the tournament scene.

I love the idea they are going with...I am just pissed off with the locations...or lack there of..in several areas.

but for the most part dice so not play that large of a factor in who wins or loses a game unless one player gets incredibly lucky/unlucky.

As the true master of ones I disagree with you whole heartedly here. Dice can play a major role in the game which would be why we use them.

There's three 40k events in Texas that are drivable for me (San Antonio, Austin and Dallas) and one in Arkansas (Fayetville), so I'm happy. More than GW ever did for the south central U.S.

Frazzled wrote:Help me out. People are complaining because its a sort of Big 16 event? People have been asking for something like this for years-an invite style best of the best. I'm no GW fan but really, you're whining over this?

Personally we need to have pact to report HBMC winning seven tournaments, then have everyone throw their games, just so he has dinner with Jervis. We'll have cameras rolling and security standing by.

You used to have your choice of GTs to attend and the cost included hotel and lunch. Now you have to claw your way to the top and beat down all the WAAC gamers. Only the event promoters are billing this as a good thing.

G

Change is always difficult...........

Last year we had nadda....
The previous two years with our first time circuit were awesome....

They changed the circuit scoring from one year to the next on player feedback............

They rushed and got a circuit in place which is dependant on the indies that wanted to be in it.....

Which was something we all were screaming for(a circuit), it may not have GW GT's in it but it does have a invitational which is something we have been asking for.....

Hopefully more indie's will jump on board and who knows they may even add GT's again...................

This is a step in the right direction..........

I just hope that they support it, IE, results post from all tournaments or at least a good link. Maybe some stories and photos of the players and armies that have qualified so far, listing game club affiliation and what else that club is doing for the hobby.....

I'm telling my other half I qualified anyway just for an excuse to go to Vegas, so im there no matter what...LOL....

I would only have two questions for Jervas, one is it open bar and two who's picking up the check...

Fishboy wrote:

but for the most part dice so not play that large of a factor in who wins or loses a game unless one player gets incredibly lucky/unlucky.

As the true master of ones I disagree with you whole heartedly here. Dice can play a major role in the game which would be why we use them.

That's like saying the guys who consistently win at the World Series of Poker always get the best cards. There's a reason we always see many of the same names at the final table in every event.

Modquisition on.
Gentlemen, a reminder politeness is required. Let remember rule #1 and maintain civility.

There is a codicil. Lets try to keep our posts grammatically correct with punctuation. It really helps the argument.

Modquisition off:
Two internet cookies for the person who can find two or more errors in the above. If you only find five, you're not drunk enough.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Green Blow Fly wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Help me out. People are complaining because its a sort of Big 16 event? People have been asking for something like this for years-an invite style best of the best. I'm no GW fan but really, you're whining over this?

Personally we need to have pact to report HBMC winning seven tournaments, then have everyone throw their games, just so he has dinner with Jervis. We'll have cameras rolling and security standing by.

You used to have your choice of GTs to attend and the cost included hotel and lunch. Now you have to claw your way to the top and beat down all the WAAC gamers. Only the event promoters are billing this as a good thing.

G

So regional GTs now replaced by one invite only GT? is that the gyst of it? I didn't know they still had GTs actually.

And how would we 'get together' and decide? Put 70 of us in a cage and fight it out, winner decides the format?)

Thunderdome could work...LOL.

[Gentlemen, a reminder politeness is required.]

cookie number one that is gramatically incorrect you would at least want an "of" after reminder
[Let remember rule #1 and maintain civility. ]
it would be let's as in let us remember

[There is a codicil. ]
fragmented sentence, plus the there you used is out of context it is their "there" is used as to describe a place.

[Lets try to keep our posts grammatically correct with punctuation. It really helps the argument. ]
another fragmented sentence as it would be "with punctuation as it really helps"

[Modquisition off:
Two internet cookies for the person who can find two or more errors in the above. If you only find five, you're not drunk enough. ]

I got 4 does that mean two cookies?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Green Blow Fly wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Help me out. People are complaining because its a sort of Big 16 event? People have been asking for something like this for years-an invite style best of the best. I'm no GW fan but really, you're whining over this?

Personally we need to have pact to report HBMC winning seven tournaments, then have everyone throw their games, just so he has dinner with Jervis. We'll have cameras rolling and security standing by.

You used to have your choice of GTs to attend and the cost included hotel and lunch. Now you have to claw your way to the top and beat down all the WAAC gamers. Only the event promoters are billing this as a good thing.

G

So regional GTs now replaced by one invite only GT? is that the gyst of it? I didn't know they still had GTs actually.

You're the cookie winner so far empy.

Frazzled wrote:You're the cookie winner so far empy.

WOOT I FINALLY WON SOME THING... actually not true my recruiter told me I won the second time I enlisted..... or was that lost hrmmm.

CaptKaruthors wrote:

And how would we 'get together' and decide? Put 70 of us in a cage and fight it out, winner decides the format?)

Thunderdome could work...LOL.

What if you had to chuck your minis at each other inside a huge pit and only the one survivor could emerge triumphant? Pewter with spiky bitz would so rawk again!

G

CaptKaruthors wrote:

And how would we 'get together' and decide? Put 70 of us in a cage and fight it out, winner decides the format?)

Thunderdome could work...LOL.

You know, they actually have one of those at Burningman. It's pretty much the whole reason I go. You're supposed to use foam weapons, but when you drop 'em and duke it out the goths that run it don't stop you (and you get crazy applause).

Isn't the Vegas GT traditionally at the end of the summer? Hmmm, these things could work together. "TWO NERDS ENTER! ONE NERD LEAVES!"

Savnock wrote:

CaptKaruthors wrote:

And how would we 'get together' and decide? Put 70 of us in a cage and fight it out, winner decides the format?)

Thunderdome could work...LOL.

You know, they actually have one of those at Burningman. It's pretty much the whole reason I go. You're supposed to use foam weapons, but when you drop 'em and duke it out the goths that run it don't stop you (and you get crazy applause).

Isn't the Vegas GT traditionally at the end of the summer? Hmmm, these things could work together. "TWO NERDS ENTER! ONE NERD LEAVES!"

I would so win this unless that guy from long island I played at baltimore, showed up. he was the first and only person I have seen be told to keep it down during a GT. It was an epic game

Manfred von Drakken wrote:Exactly one event north of Baltimore. Way to cover the Northeast, guys. Phoenix and Dallas get TONS of love.

My advice to any of "you guys" feeling left out.

1) Relax.
2) Relax.
3) Enjoy The Game.
4) Realize that winning a tournament doesn't validate you.
5) Realize they're doing you a favor and you'll be a better person for it if you embrace the oppurtunity to stop being "one of those guys".

Howlingmoon wrote:

Manfred von Drakken wrote:Exactly one event north of Baltimore. Way to cover the Northeast, guys. Phoenix and Dallas get TONS of love.

My advice to any of "you guys" feeling left out.

1) Relax.
2) Relax.
3) Enjoy The Game.
4) Realize that winning a tournament doesn't validate you.
5) Realize they're doing you a favor and you'll be a better person for it if you embrace the oppurtunity to stop being "one of those guys".

Thanx for the attitude adjustment. I now realise that tournament gaming is the root of all evil and if you enjoy competetive competition, you are a complete A-hole.

Again, I thank you for your advice.

Now....get out of our thread.

Good God I will never play another competitive game in my life ever again! I feel so dirty now.



G

Manfred von Drakken wrote:Exactly one event north of Baltimore. Way to cover the Northeast, guys. Phoenix and Dallas get TONS of love.

Just thought you guys would like to know, that GW stated they are looking for people to submit events so they can have more in the future. So if you want one in your area, then organize it yo!

Stupid GW discouraging Indy tourneys.

Oh, wait, sorry, that was what people were griping about last year.

This year it is stupid GW for encouraging Indy tourneys.

I get so confused as to why I am supposed to be complaining about GW.

There's always the C&D letters to fall back on.

Hi
As one of those key organizers – the Warmaster’s Fantasy (March 2010 & 2011) and 40K (September 2010) Challenges in Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario, Canada (another 3 North-Eastern Events) - I am pumped about the new circuit.

We have an established event that has gotten a huge boost in a number of ways
- Exposure to American Players, increasing our growth potential.
- More substantial support from GW, helping our bottom line and increasing our prize potential beyond the thousands of dollars we already give away.
- A nice icing on the cake prize in the form of the Vegas entries.

In my view, the Vegas GT merely sweetens the pot rather than becoming the primary focus, although with luck it will bring in a few extra quality players.

On another note, why am I not worried about WAAC players?
The answer is simple. Our rules set demands excellence in all areas of the hobby; without painting and theme and sportsmanship and excellent play, you will not win our event. And I know that this holds true for other events as well – Astro-Toronto being one of them.

I love that GW has given us the freedom to have our own rules set in place. It means that players can have a unique experience wherever you go. Moreover, they can choose which experiences they want to have.

Cheers,
Nate Stevens, Organizer
The Warmaster’s Challenge

that GW stated they are looking for people to submit events so they can have more in the future. So if you want one in your area, then organize it yo!

Now that is what I was looking to hear.

Deadshane1 wrote:

Thanx for the attitude adjustment. I now realise that tournament gaming is the root of all evil and if you enjoy competetive competition, you are a complete A-hole.

Again, I thank you for your advice.

Now....get out of our thread.

It is refreshing to see events with varying levels of sports/comp/etc. giving every type of player a shot at the finals. Once there, sports and paint will matter, and the competition in those areas will be fierce. WAAC ain't gonna be enough unless it includes Extraordinarily-Nice-At-All-Costs too.

I'm really hoping/stoked for thorough independent coverage of the finals, with maybe a well-produced podcast or even condensed video. Interviews with top players, etc. I'd buy that for a dollar.

I keep reading about GBF and other talking about WAAC armies/players.

How do people come to the conclusion that these events will reward the WAAC players?

Yeah kind of sucks I cant find any events other than stuff in texas which is a 8 to 9 hour drive from new orleans. :(

Blackmoor wrote:I keep reading about GBF and other talking about WAAC armies/players.

How do people come to the conclusion that these events will reward the WAAC players?

Because soft scores are much easier to game for advantage than battle scores. Having events so heavily skewed towards soft scores only awards those who are willing to score their opponents low and bring pro-painted armies.

willydstyle wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:I keep reading about GBF and other talking about WAAC armies/players.

How do people come to the conclusion that these events will reward the WAAC players?

Because soft scores are much easier to game for advantage than battle scores. Having events so heavily skewed towards soft scores only awards those who are willing to score their opponents low and bring pro-painted armies.

If I understand what you are saying, events with a lot of soft scores reward WAAC players, where battle points only don't?

Did I read that right?

Yes, that has been my experience. Events with player-scored sportsmanship and comp scores that add into the overall only encourage those players who will do anything to win to game those scores.

While I think that comp particularly has no place in modern 40k, player-judged sportsmanship can be useful, but it should not add into the total score.

willydstyle wrote:Yes, that has been my experience. Events with player-scored sportsmanship and comp scores that add into the overall only encourage those players who will do anything to win to game those scores.

While I think that comp particularly has no place in modern 40k, player-judged sportsmanship can be useful, but it should not add into the total score.

I've felt the same way for a bit. The average decent person scores his opponent correctly. But it's open to abuse by those that wish to abuse it. You also have the opposite problem of too many people just giving everyone they play maximum points. I still will still have a painting and comp score as part of the events I'll be running, but they will both be judged by a panel of several people, and not player judged.

mikhaila wrote:

willydstyle wrote:Yes, that has been my experience. Events with player-scored sportsmanship and comp scores that add into the overall only encourage those players who will do anything to win to game those scores.

While I think that comp particularly has no place in modern 40k, player-judged sportsmanship can be useful, but it should not add into the total score.

I've felt the same way for a bit. The average decent person scores his opponent correctly. But it's open to abuse by those that wish to abuse it. You also have the opposite problem of too many people just giving everyone they play maximum points. I still will still have a painting and comp score as part of the events I'll be running, but they will both be judged by a panel of several people, and not player judged.

That's one way to do it.

At the last tournament I ran, I still had sportsmanship and paint scoring (no comp though), but they were separate prizes from the "overall." The paint scoring was not a check-list, but was panel-judged. The sportsmanship was player-scored, but I did not simply have a 1-10 checklist.

I had each player award their opponents one to three sportsmanship "awards": Most fun to play against, most fair, and best rules knowledge. Every award that a player got was worth one point, and the player with the most points won the sportsmanship award. I also actively policed the tables, and handed out bonus points to players who showed exceptional sportsmanship. It wasn't a perfect system, but I think it addressed the problem with players just giving all of their opponents max sports, and since they had to give out the awards, they could not just give their opponents minimum scores.

One problem I had was that many players felt like "most fair" and "best rules knowledge" had fuzzy boundaries.

It was common practice where I lived to always give your opponent max points, but I did not like that system because it did not reward the guys who were fun to play, and punish those that weren’t so I started to read the scoring sheets and gave people the scores they deserved. I took so much grief from this that I went back to giving max points again, but I still have people remember that I gave them what they deserved, and they still hold a grudge.

Phazeal wrote:
On the one hand, I have personally observed you (Blackmoor) game soft scores (hell, we still call chipmunking 'Getting Hernandezed' around here) and bring armies that are completely off the chain, dating back to the early days of 4th edition. Does the 18 model Tzeench list with a hald dozen bolts of change AND winds of chaos ring any bells?

The above quote is from this thead:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/232067.page#595494

I played the above poster and here is the irony: (besides calling a 4th edition Thousand Sons list powerful) He played an Altioc army with Wraithlords…and the tournament where we played at had those old 3rd edition results sheets that gave as an example of poor comp Wraithlords in and Altioc army, so I checked that box and I have never heard the end of it.

That is why I hate player judged comp and sports. The scores from them are really based on nothing.

That's hilarious he was playing Altioc with Wraithlords and that was given as the example of poor comp! I typically give max score for comp unless it was a really unfun game. Comp is fairly close to dead now but I don't see sportsmanship going away anytime soon.

G

comp is a dead concept..
any army right now can win games, missions should reflect balance not some scoring system.
I remember when good comp was taking one of everything in your codex, or having tactical squads with all different heavy and special weapons or so much percent in troops. crap I say
we have a force org. chart and good missions to balance things out.
there is absolutly no unbeatable army in the game right now so why do we need comp

Blackmoor wrote:It was common practice where I lived to always give your opponent max points, but I did not like that system because it did not reward the guys who were fun to play, and punish those that weren’t so I started to read the scoring sheets and gave people the scores they deserved. I took so much grief from this that I went back to giving max points again, but I still have people remember that I gave them what they deserved, and they still hold a grudge.

Phazeal wrote:
On the one hand, I have personally observed you (Blackmoor) game soft scores (hell, we still call chipmunking 'Getting Hernandezed' around here) and bring armies that are completely off the chain, dating back to the early days of 4th edition. Does the 18 model Tzeench list with a hald dozen bolts of change AND winds of chaos ring any bells?

The above quote is from this thead:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/232067.page#595494

I played the above poster and here is the irony: (besides calling a 4th edition Thousand Sons list powerful) He played an Altioc army with Wraithlords…and the tournament where we played at had those old 3rd edition results sheets that gave as an example of poor comp Wraithlords in and Altioc army, so I checked that box and I have never heard the end of it.

That is why I hate player judged comp and sports. The scores from them are really based on nothing.

Not trying to call you out here... but you seemed to be incredulous that I was suggesting that soft scores encouraged WAAC attitudes, but now it seems like you are agreeing with me, based on your own experience.

willydstyle wrote:

Not trying to call you out here... but you seemed to be incredulous that I was suggesting that soft scores encouraged WAAC attitudes, but now it seems like you are agreeing with me, based on your own experience.

Most people equate WAAC players/armies to the 'Ard Boyz type format of battle points only. WAAC players bring the chessyest beatstick armies they can and they thrive in that environment.

Comp is there because of WAAC players bringing the hardest armies possible and is meant to punish them, sportsmanship is their to stop people with WAAC attitudes and, and to a degree painting is made to lessen the impact of "battle points only" scoring, as well as that most WAAC armies are not painted well.


I think that soft scores hurt WAAC players more than they do regular players, but I hate soft scores.

There have been several good points about fixing the soft-scores system (so that WAAC players are handicapped and/or fair play is rewarded):

Soft scores should be independently judged by a panel, not player-judged, whenever possible.

Player-awarded sports scores can be moderated if you simply pick the best among your opponents on one or more well-defined criteria, rather than, say, giving a 0 on a 1-10 to all of them. This isn't bullet-proof, but if they _have_ to pick someone that should at least lower abuse.

Player-awarded Sportsmanship scores should be reviewed by judges if possible.

Do those sound like reasonable ideas?

The two stores in orlando offer RTT's monthly, switching between each other for WHFB and 40K every month. besides that, there is nothing in florida.

we may not be the largest gaming community down here in FLA but come on! we can fill a tourney, give us something GW.

i've been asking for years and they still havent responded.

lord marcus wrote:The two stores in orlando offer RTT's monthly, switching between each other for WHFB and 40K every month. besides that, there is nothing in florida.

we may not be the largest gaming community down here in FLA but come on! we can fill a tourney, give us something GW.

i've been asking for years and they still havent responded.

Well, they certainly won't now, with GW only running 1 GT.)

We're past that. New system. Get your club, or any club, and help one of those stores run a 50 person, 2 day, GT instead of just an RTT. Run it this year to get it started, then expand a bit and get it on the GT circuit for the 2011-2012 season.

Ok so as I have found recently I took upon Miks advice, and being that the boston and new england region really doesnt have many tournies or for that matter big tournies I have started one. That said for all of you thinking it is too expensive I am going to give you a great bit of advice for doing your own that will saves tons of money. One of the biggest expenses as I found on the west coast running these was renting a hall or playable space big enough for everyone. That said now I have realised a true diamond in the rough as I found you can rent out National Gaurd Armory's. Quite often this will be around 1k for a whole weekend and compared to halls or hotels this is freaking cheap, and they have the room trust me to house people, AND have the parking lot to go with it. So check it out, and if you are going to go to the armory and ask them who to talk to to rent the place. Good Luck

Blackmoor wrote:

willydstyle wrote:

Not trying to call you out here... but you seemed to be incredulous that I was suggesting that soft scores encouraged WAAC attitudes, but now it seems like you are agreeing with me, based on your own experience.

Most people equate WAAC players/armies to the 'Ard Boyz type format of battle points only. WAAC players bring the chessyest beatstick armies they can and they thrive in that environment.

Comp is there because of WAAC players bringing the hardest armies possible and is meant to punish them, sportsmanship is their to stop people with WAAC attitudes and, and to a degree painting is made to lessen the impact of "battle points only" scoring, as well as that most WAAC armies are not painted well.


I think that soft scores hurt WAAC players more than they do regular players, but I hate soft scores.

Eh, bringing the army that gives you the best chance at winning is not "WAAC" it's competitive.

The two are not equal.

WAAC means that not only do you bring a "hard" army, but if you have to fight someone else with a hard army you try to manipulate the rules in your favor, or stall for time, if that benefits you.

WAAC means that if you fight another good army you dock them sportsmanship/comp/whatever soft scores you can control to give yourself a better advantage.

WAAC mens that if you don't have the time or skills to get a "40 point" paint job, you hire someone else to do it for you, then never mention that you didn't paint your own army.

Battlepoints-only scoring is the best way to limit WAAC gaming in a competitive environment, because it means there is less that the underhanded gamer can manipulate to his advantage.

I think Comp is dead in the 5th ed. It is critical that you have troops to score with in 2 out of 3 of the missions which IIRC that was one of the bases of the old comp scoring. Also comp is so opinion based I can not see how you can be equally judged through out. I also believe however that you should paint your own army if you want it scored rather than seeing people pay for a high level painted army to make sure they get maxed paint scores. This is a hobby IMHO and any tourny should encompass all levels of the hobby.

Empchild wrote:as I found you can rent out National Gaurd Armory's. Quite often this will be around 1k for a whole weekend and compared to halls or hotels this is freaking cheap, and they have the room trust me to house people, AND have the parking lot to go with it. So check it out, and if you are going to go to the armory and ask them who to talk to to rent the place. Good Luck

....sniffle....I had a beautiful NG armory near me. Wanted to use it for gaming tournaments, now that I'm running them, the armory is a Genuardi's supermarket. It's so unfair.

:( sounds about right being as with the economy so bad that a lot of those great big CHEAP buildings for rent are being sold under the urban renewal progects. Still I garuntee people will be cheaper then a hotel check it out.