4746
Post by: Flachzange
(Modquisition added Lord of Change in the title due to multiple threads)
Hi There,
Christmas fast approaches and I`ve quite a few updates and items of news for you this newsletter, not to mention the long-awaited arrival of the mighty Lord of Change model previewed at UK Games Day. Keep an eye out for more newsletters coming soon with some more exciting surprises and previews for you.
Thanks
Alan Bligh
The Lord of Change
The main release for this newsletter is the fantastic Aetaos`rau`keres, Daemon Lord of Tzeentch. This massive 240mm tall (to the top of its summoned horrors) model which you can see Here, designed by Dan Cockersell, completes Forge World`s set of Daemon Lords for the great powers of Chaos, and is without doubt the most detailed we have released. The model itself is alive with extraordinary design work and malice as befits this Slayer of Souls, from the intricate feathers of its wings to the writhing nightmare mass of daemonic horrors being summoned into its grasp. Rules for this spite-filled and insane Daemon Lord, so dangerous as to be spoken of in hushed tones, even by Tzeentch’s twisted cultists, can be found in the forthcoming book, Imperial Armour Apocalypse II.
The Lord of Change is available to pre-order now for release the week commencing the 30th of November.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/loc.htm
The Ruined Watchtower of Amon Sul
By popular demand we`ve brought back our hugely popular Lord of the Rings terrain model `The Ruined Watchtower of Amon Sul on Weathertop` for sale this Christmas in limited quantities. This fantastic model measures over 400mm across and is faithfully detailed as it was sculpted by Simon Egan, using photos and plans supplied by New Line Cinema from the original film set, and has in fact been used by them since as reference for its other licensees. This iconic piece of terrain will only be available while stocks last, and is available for pre-order now for release the week commencing the 30th of November.
The Sons of Fenris
With the recent release of the great new Space Wolves Codex we’ve had lots of enquiries here at Forge World asking whether we are planning to do some more models for the warriors of Fenris. The simple answer to this is absolutely yes, and sooner rather than later in fact, with a Venerable Dreadnought on the way. Until then however, we do already have a number of Space Wolves accessories you can get your teeth into including a Terminator Conversion Set, Icons, Chapter Specific Doors and Brass Etch Symbols and of course our mighty Thunderhawk is available with Space Wolves iconography as well.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pics for the lazy:
More at the link above!
22318
Post by: Termagant
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
22318
Post by: Termagant
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20956
Post by: Empchild
WOW is right. It is by all accounts a gorgous model though I honestly feel it's to big.
7375
Post by: BrookM
The wings feel kinda off for some reason or the other.
5636
Post by: warpcrafter
It looks like something from McFarlane toys. Not impressed.
320
Post by: Platuan4th
BrookM wrote:The wings feel kinda off for some reason or the other.
Could it be because the feathers are more rounded and aren't forming jagged edges like the metal LOC?
This one's a must have for me, and I think I'll even pay to have it painted by one of the award winning painters around here as there's no way(even with an airbrush) that I'll be able to give it a worth paint job myself. Of course, I've been wainting for this model since the Bloodthirster was released by them.
10402
Post by: Thorgut
I love the mutation spawning from its hand. I'm not sure about the wings, though.
4514
Post by: Myrthe
The wings are way too static for such a large model.
The part that caught my eye that's got me excited is "...we are planning to do some more models for the warriors of Fenris ... with a Venerable Dreadnought on the way."
WOOT !!!! FINALLY !!!!
13655
Post by: combatmedic
Holy crap this is awesome.
327
Post by: tinfoil
The staff is amazing. As is the writhing mass of horrors the creature is creating.
The thing as a whole certainly displays Forge World at its finest. Wonderfully crafted sculpture, and a figure filled with character.
Still, for a Lord of Change, it looks kind of ... normal. It's a big man-bird.
It would have been fun to work up something that really did stretch at the borders of reality itself. Something many-headed, something studded with eyes, something rippling with change.
I think my favorite FW greater daemon is still the GUO.
18367
Post by: HiveFleet
seeing this in color certainly improved my opinion of the model, since from the sneak peeks I had seen previously they model looked woefully underdetailed. However, despite a decent paintjob, the model lacks dynamism and could be much better painted to reflect tzeentch's chaotic nature.
I will pick one up just to complete my collection
1084
Post by: Agamemnon2
I have no words for how underwhelming and drab I'm finding this model. I'm not a big fan of the other daemons either, but this one's a big steaming stinker.
12357
Post by: Fallenbourne
That thing has to as tall if not taller than the biotitan
13857
Post by: Warlord Imp
I agree the wings are too simplistic and static for my tastes. Staff and mutating horrors are real nice though.
4362
Post by: Ozymandias
This model is amazing. Why is it so much bigger than the Bloodthirster though?
2776
Post by: Reecius
Holy crap. That is truly incredible. FW is king of the monsters.
2764
Post by: AgeOfEgos
Great mini, except for those wings...they are pretty boring. I think the UltraForge Vrock is a superior model, except for this staff.
5914
Post by: Battle Foam
Looks like someone will be in desperate need of the P.A.C.K. MAX very soon.
LOL
Romeo
Battle Foam
20124
Post by: Neith
I really hate that Lord of Change model. The wings look too static, and perfectly rounded, and the whole pose just looks...awkward. Still, nice for Tzeentch players to finally get their Greater Daemon FW model, but I'm not a fan of it.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
...
Wow. New low.
You get this gorgeous model...
And people are focusing on the "wings looking too static" or "too rounded" or the "pose looking awkward"?
These bigger display Daemons aren't meant to be "kung fu pose #5!" or the like.
Boggles the mind.
20124
Post by: Neith
Kanluwen wrote:...
Wow. New low.
You get this gorgeous model...
And people are focusing on the "wings looking too static" or "too rounded" or the "pose looking awkward"?
These bigger display Daemons aren't meant to be "kung fu pose #5!" or the like.
Boggles the mind.
Different strokes I guess, I find the model really ugly and wouldn't field one for my Chaos. I prefer the standard Lord of Change GW model I don't expect it to be in a ridiculously articulate pose, but what I meant is that the pose looks very forced- the arm with the horrors just looks out of place (though the horrors themselves look cool). You call it a gorgeous model, but for me the wings totally ruin it.
306
Post by: Boss Salvage
Cheers for the link, glad to see the LoC all done and painted. That said, I think of all the greaters, big bird is the model most dependent upon a solid paintjob to make it work. IMO the other three are more distinctive and/or just plain more interesting in the sculpt itself.
For my money, I'm happy to have the Ultraforge Vrok for my giant bird demon purposes 
- Salvage
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
It's not bad, but the wings don't have any shape, and the neck/head is badly-posed.
Still, the detailing is good, and it's large and impressive. Like the BT, it's just too big compared to the GUO and KOS.
5/10 ignoring scale. 2/10 considering scale.
4179
Post by: bubber
£132 - same as the Blood Thirster.
Like others I don't like the wings either.
For the money (& if I had to buy either the BT of the LOC) I would get the BT.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
Oh, definitely. If I were to receive my choice of any of the 4 for free, the BT is hands down the best model - large, dynamic, well-proportioned.
36
Post by: Moopy
That this is totally going to get killed by the SOB. With a bolter. 
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Post by: CajunMan550
15884
Post by: ghosty
hmm the wings look unfinished. but its looking good
10615
Post by: Clay Williams
Ultraforge did it better, sooner, and cheaper.
102
Post by: Jayden63
Mmmmm, drumsticks.
99
Post by: insaniak
This is the first of the Greater Daemon models I've been unimpressed with.
The wings are featureless and static, the pose is awkward, and the face is remarkably expressionless considering how loudly he appears to be screaming.
Some lovely detail on the skin and the staff, and the coalescing ball of horror in his hand is awesome. But overall, nup, just doesn't do it for me.
12471
Post by: Buttlerthepug
Sigh... amazing model but the wings really do ruin it for me... as stated above I think a really amazing paintjob is needed to make this model fit... those wings just need something more D:
IMO I really would have like a more dynamicaly posed model... kind of like when the LoC came into the castle in the WAR preview... A LoC on all four getting howling and getting ready to wreck some face... imo that would have been saweet!
Good model... bad wings..
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Moopy wrote:That this is totally going to get killed by the SOB. With a bolter.
It is too bad GW no longer sells Frateris Militia, because that would be an auto-win.
For the Frateris Militia.
11614
Post by: guardpiper
I like the staff and horrors that are being summoned. However the pose, especially how the neck is modeled, I do not like. The wings are okay, but the shirt he is wearing seems a bit odd. Just my opinion.
19004
Post by: Soup and a roll
Beak and teeth on an evil god-monster? This thing makes both Darwin and baby Jesus cry.
1963
Post by: Aduro
Really underwhelming for as long as it seemed to take them to sculpt the thing.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
I think it looks great. That staff is awesome.
Ozymandias wrote:This model is amazing. Why is it so much bigger than the Bloodthirster though?
If you're going to pay that much money, and 999 points for something, it should be HUGE! 
4362
Post by: Ozymandias
999 points? Ok so it's the baddest of the Greater-Greater Daemons.
494
Post by: H.B.M.C.
I don't know for certain that it's 999 points, but given that they've stuck with the sacred numbers so far (666 for the Slaaneshi one, 777 for the Nurgle one and 888 for An'grath) it stands to reason that it'd be 999 points for the Greater LoC.
Of course, Jervis might have got to them in the meantime and Jervisified the whole lot of them, removing the whole sacred number thing from their minds, so he'll be 1200+ points and have an extra pip of toughness and wounds and an extra psychic power 'cause Warwick can't right rules...
320
Post by: Platuan4th
H.B.M.C. wrote:I don't know for certain that it's 999 points, but given that they're stuck with the sacred numbers so far (666 for the Slaaneshi one, 777 for the Nurgle one and 888 for An'grath) it stands to reason that it'd be 999 points for the Greater LoC.
Apparently, someone on Warseer saw the rules at a GD(I think UK). It IS 999 points, has some weird powers, and can create Horrors.
21542
Post by: Mad Monk's Mekshop
Termagant wrote:WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what he said
8021
Post by: JD21290
Too static, and too human like.
Good concept on the staff and hand, those i love, but its just a shame they couldnt have worked closer to the GW LOC model.
and with this for only £45, i think ill take this instead (and change the staff  )
![]() Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit: Broken pic, its the Vrok from UF lol
11558
Post by: Uriels_Flame
Should get these just to play Chaos in the Old World with
11834
Post by: Superscope
Ehh... the ball of flesh he's making in his hand is cool.. the rest... just gak.
Anyhow.. i'm more interested on the XV9 variant weapons they said they would release ;p
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
Wow, so much negativity...I think it looks fine, I'm not sure what exactly everyone was expecting.
I love the paintjob, not used to seeing so much color on any GW model, and especially FW.
12471
Post by: Buttlerthepug
Sidstyler wrote:Wow, so much negativity...I think it looks fine, I'm not sure what exactly everyone was expecting.
I love the paintjob, not used to seeing so much color on any GW model, and especially FW.
Its just a matter of peoples opinion... The sculpter is the same person who did all the other Greater Daemon, both dragons, both spawns, and the rhinox riders... he has probably done more, but for what he did with all those I personally expected something dynamicaly posed with wings somewhat spread out... Look all the other chaos stuff... All the other daemons are posed to add to the effect of their god (unclean one is rather disturbingly tasting his sword, bloodthirster looks like hes about to rip your head off, keeper looks seductive...) where as this guy is just standing their yelling (without expression) and casting some horrors in the air...
It just could have been better is all.
686
Post by: aka_mythos
I think the model looks good. I'd give it a 6.5/10. The wings are the problem, but I don't think anyone has given a real critique. The details on the wings are well done but they're almost too posed. They are posed like a statue of an angel. They seem to lack the correct proportions of a birds wings due to a lack of definition on the joint in the wing. While I feel the feathers are done well the wings themselves are devoid of character. I do agree with others better posing would have solved the problem, though it would have likely made issues with mass. I think if this same model were 20% smaller, but with more dramatic wings it would have made this a 8.5/10.
1963
Post by: Aduro
Sidstyler wrote:Wow, so much negativity...I think it looks fine, I'm not sure what exactly everyone was expecting.
I love the paintjob, not used to seeing so much color on any GW model, and especially FW.
It's not that it looks Bad per say... It's just not nearly as cool as the previous Greater Daemons they've done. The Thirster and Unclean One are Awesome. The Keeper is pretty darn cool. The Lord is just merely alright.
Except for the summoning hand... That would make for a cool bit to sell separately.
14852
Post by: Fateweaver
I think the paintjob does it. That much attention to feather detail screams out to me "peacock" in a non-homosexual way. Someone on Warseer mentioned painting it with the color shift colors found on exotic cars and custom paintjobs.
It's a large enough scale it would work.
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
Buttlerthepug wrote:All the other daemons are posed to add to the effect of their god (unclean one is rather disturbingly tasting his sword, bloodthirster looks like hes about to rip your head off, keeper looks seductive...) where as this guy is just standing their yelling (without expression) and casting some horrors in the air...
It just could have been better is all.
Indeed, it probably could have been better, but that's true of damn near every model GW/ FW put out isn't it? There's always room for improvement...
In any case I don't see how you can argue that the others are posed to "add to the effect of their gods", and this one isn't, despite the fact that its arm is stretched to the sky, conjuring a swirling mass of pink and blue flesh. That's not Tzeentchy at all!
Honestly, if it looks too "static", it's probably just because he's a sorcerer and not a kung fu close-combat monster as it was said earlier. Oddly enough I don't see anyone in this thread arguing about the GUO being too "static", and he's literally just sitting on his fat rotting ass with a stupid grin on his face (though I guess that does sum up Nurgle perfectly ). I agree, maybe he could be pointing his staff at something or raising it above his head with both hands, but I think the model works well enough as is, standing authoritatively and pointing in the distance, bellowing an order to his unholy horde of nightmarish (but strangely bright and colorful) minions while summoning even more out of thin air in the palm of his hand!
I dunno, personally I like this model more the more I look at it. If I had the money or the option to get one of the FW greater demons, it would probably be this one. Yeah I know, I'd rather have this one than the bloodthirster.
539
Post by: cygnnus
Great staff, cool idea and execution of summoning more daemons. Nice to see that Tzeentch gets some FW love. Aside from that? Meh... Not a hater, per se, but that model really doesn't make me say, "Wow! I don't care about the cost, I REALLY want one of those".
I'd go with the Ultraforge The Vrock in a heartbeat and use the oh, say, 100GPB difference to figure out a way to go a better staff for The Vrock.
Glad to see Tzeentch get some love, sad to see the execution...
Vale,
JohnS
15193
Post by: Avach
WOW!!! that thing is so great. iI hope my friend gets one of them he totally loves Tzeentch. And he has always been pissed about that they get no new models and less attention then the rest of the Chaos gods..
over and out avach
8742
Post by: MeanGreenStompa
Considering just how much I love the KOS and the GUO, I am somewhat underwhelmed by this one.
I really like the staff and the summoned horrors but the big bird himself is somewhat meh.
And it's too damned big. The GGDs should all be similar in scale.
5256
Post by: NAVARRO
Not much to add to what was already been said... Inferior to other demons, ugly damn boring wings, wouldnt paint it for sure.
20341
Post by: HyrbidNecro
I love this model! Hes a big man chicken. I think if painted right the wings would look ok, but when painted just blue.... looks awful. Overall I love all the greater daemons they came up with.
2050
Post by: Anung Un Rama
The body is okay, but I don't like the wings either. They look too thick and a bit boring imho.
The staff on the other hand is really cool.
If I had a Tzeentch army I'd buy him.
3963
Post by: Fishboy
The skin texture and model are awesome but the wings look very MEH to me. I agree with everyone else it seems and I think it is more due to the static nature of the wings.
4746
Post by: Flachzange
While I agree with the blandness of the wings, could you imagine the size of that thing with wings spread out? Youd need a trailer or at least a station waggon to bring that to a game.
All in all, I dont think its alright though. Seen worse from GW, thats for damn sure
12471
Post by: Buttlerthepug
But thats the thing... It didnt have to be completely spread out. Look at the BT and the Chaos Dragon... both their wings are partially spread. If they would have even just made the very bottom of the wings opened up and had each indivual feather (or at least a majority of them) sprung out like the normal metal GW one. it would have been so much better.
4746
Post by: Flachzange
Buttlerthepug wrote:But thats the thing... It didnt have to be completely spread out. Look at the BT and the Chaos Dragon... both their wings are partially spread. If they would have even just made the very bottom of the wings opened up and had each indivual feather (or at least a majority of them) sprung out like the normal metal GW one. it would have been so much better.
While youre absolutely right, Im sure there would be plenty of people crying "looks too much like the BT, or the current KOS" if they wouldve been similar.
Like I said, I also believe that the wings are the biggest weak spot on this model, it couldve been worse though.
2050
Post by: Anung Un Rama
I guess if you really want to, you could try to find some wings from a toy pegasus or something.
8725
Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
I'd like to see it with a better paint job on the wings. Either the photography isn't doing it justice, or they have been done too subtly.
Perhaps more colours in the feathers would help. Get it right, and they will look more cloak than wings which would help.
15358
Post by: Vitruvian XVII
I don't know what people are moaning about. The wings have been sculpted fantastically, there's so much detail that it looks like they are real. I think the problem is that the paintjob is too subtle, and the fact that the wings are less eagle-like and more rounded than people are used to. I think it's great.
9158
Post by: Hollismason
I have to agree that it is a gorgeous model just those damn wings now that i see it I cannot unsee it.
6646
Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
Whats it looking at, and why's it screeching when casting a spell, just odd pose all round for me. Plus with all the energy going through its diaphram for the screech you'd think the wings would be doing something rather than just hanging there.
Nope, worst of the bunch I'd say, also way to big, yes its 999pts, but why does that need to equate 'huge.' Surely the 999pts comes from its tricky abilities and the insane magical prowess it would bring to the table?
Just strange.
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
Sarcasm mode engaged. "Wah, I hate the new model, wah, it isn't exactly how I would do it if I were sculptor, wah, wah, wah."
Why does every thread with a picture of a new model have to go that direction? What is the point of excitedly posting pictures of new models just to hear a thousand strangers complain about them?
Sarcasm mode disengaged, rolls eyes, sighs, takes deep breath, moves on to a more productive topic thread.
8725
Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
To be fair, even sculpting mini's is an artform, and like all art, success and failure are subjective.
At least people are willing to try and put their finger on what it is.
(though to say that Vroc is a better model is...well..a stretch)
6646
Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
BrassScorpion wrote:Sarcasm mode engaged. "Wah, I hate the new model, wah, it isn't exactly how I would do it if I were sculptor, wah, wah, wah."
Why does every thread with a picture of a new model have to go that direction? What is the point of excitedly posting pictures of new models just to hear a thousand strangers complain about them?
Sarcasm mode disengaged, rolls eyes, sighs, takes deep breath, moves on to a more productive topic thread.
Ah get off the high horse, just because folks dare to voice their opinions in the negative doesn't make them less important than the positive or makes them anti GW. In fact looking at the responses its seems a fair few like it and fair few dislike it, opinions are opinions, no need to try and have a go at folks for .. *gasp* having an opinion. 
12471
Post by: Buttlerthepug
BrassScorpion wrote:Sarcasm mode engaged. "Wah, I hate the new model, wah, it isn't exactly how I would do it if I were sculptor, wah, wah, wah."
Why does every thread with a picture of a new model have to go that direction? What is the point of excitedly posting pictures of new models just to hear a thousand strangers complain about them?
Sarcasm mode disengaged, rolls eyes, sighs, takes deep breath, moves on to a more productive topic thread.
I disagree that every thread with model pics heads in the direction of "could be better"
Please do look through news and rumours for the new Avatars of War miniotaurs and look at those comments
Many models are awsome and completely fine, lately theres been some that could use alot of work and that includes this model... its a matter of peoples opinion and their entitled to it when critisizing a model.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
BrassScorpion wrote:Sarcasm mode engaged. "Wah, I hate the new model, wah, it isn't exactly how I would do it if I were sculptor, wah, wah, wah."
It's badly-posed, too large, with boring wings.
If only one person said this, you could dismiss it, but the majority of people draw this same conclusion, so it's probably true.
What's next, you going to defend Lemartes? Or Gary Morley's Grotesques? Or Nagash? Sometimes GW releases a stinker, and this is one of those times, so no shame in calling a spade a spade.
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Ah get off the high horse, just because folks dare to voice their opinions in the negative doesn't make them less important than the positive or makes them anti GW. In fact looking at the responses its seems a fair few like it and fair few dislike it, opinions are opinions, no need to try and have a go at folks for .. *gasp* having an opinion.
Even though I'm going against the grain by admitting that I like the sculpt, I have to agree. Considering that Forge World is asking for a lot of money for every sculpt they do, and this is one of the more expensive ones bar titans, I think everyone has a right to voice their opinion on it.
Personally I don't think the pose is any more "boring" than the other greater demons of FW. Like I pointed out before, would you say this one is any more "boring" than the bloated guy sitting on his ass? Or the Slaanesh demon who's just kinda raising her arm and not doing much else? Or the amazing bloodthirster model that's...also raising its arm, but has a really mean look on his face like "Graar!" while he does it, so it's an "action pose"? I'll concede on the wings, I personally would have loved to see them outstretched like every single other winged model they've ever produced, it would have looked so much better...but the model still looks good in my opinion.
I mean really, comparing this model to the likes of Lemartes, Nagash, or most appalling of all, Gary Morley DE sculpts? Really? Did you just go there?
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
If only one person said this, you could dismiss it,
I have never seen a thread on any forum for any model no matter what it looked like that didn't have significant amounts of nay saying posts. I have never seen a topic thread on a new model that only had one person saying they didn't like it no matter how "good" or "bad" the model. That's likely never happened and it's never going to happen. That's not to say that some models aren't bad, I'm simply stating that good or bad there will be massive amounts of complaining about any model and that for some people on forums it's not fun or interesting to see that in virtually every new model topic thread. It's neither "news" nor "rumor".
12471
Post by: Buttlerthepug
BrassScorpion wrote:If only one person said this, you could dismiss it,
I have never seen a thread on any forum for any model no matter what it looked like that didn't have significant amounts of nay saying posts. I have never seen a topic thread on a new model that only had one person saying they didn't like it no matter how "good" or "bad" the model. That's likely never happened and it's never going to happen. That's not to say that some models aren't bad, I'm simply stating that good or bad there will be massive amounts of complaining about any model and that for some people on forums it's not fun or interesting to see that in virtually every new model topic thread. It's neither "news" nor "rumor".
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/266417.page I dont see a single complaint on either of those models in there
13937
Post by: BrassScorpion
I dont see a single complaint on either of those models in there
I generally only look at the GW model topics, so I missed that. So I see another trend here, which is that GW's models receive a lot more derision than those by other companies. Now the question is, is that because of the quality of GW's models or the nature of GW's fans? Perhaps more of GW's fans have unrealistic expectations than some of the other model makers?
13106
Post by: EzeKK
Ultraforges is just so much better... Disappointing :(.
12471
Post by: Buttlerthepug
It could also be the same case as you? Maybe the people that post badly on *good* models (and if thats their opinion... then so be it. They are entitled to it) only tend to look at GW model topics. Honestly most models are going to get critisism because some people are more exact about how they like models, some are not. Its their opinion. Some companies such as AoW make amazing models, but you also dont see full armies comming out every few months. Thats the difference.
When certain things GW/FW do take forever, the LoC for instance, you expect something amazing... you dont expect half @$$ wings that look like clay ovals...
Another point being that GW/FW charge alot more... again, you could expect better wings when paying close to if not over $300 (I dont remember exact cost).
Its a matter of opinion and people are entitled to it.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
BrassScorpion wrote:Perhaps more of GW's fans have unrealistic expectations than some of the other model makers?
Anything's possible.
But really, I don't think that's the case. Look at the well-deserved drubbing that PP got over their Retribution models, Jacks in particular. Horrible, horrible models.
5534
Post by: dogma
Kanluwen wrote:...
Wow. New low.
You get this gorgeous model...
And people are focusing on the "wings looking too static" or "too rounded" or the "pose looking awkward"?
These bigger display Daemons aren't meant to be "kung fu pose #5!" or the like.
Boggles the mind.
Yeah, who are these fools to say things like "the model is ugly", or "it looks like it has Lou Gehrig's Disease" when the intent to expel currency is based on the appearance of the model. It simply boggles the mind that an aesthetic judgment might be meaningful at such a point.
10093
Post by: Sidstyler
BrassScorpion wrote:I dont see a single complaint on either of those models in there
Perhaps more of GW's fans have unrealistic expectations than some of the other model makers?
Perhaps if GW didn't have unrealistic prices people wouldn't have unrealistic expectations.
5421
Post by: JohnHwangDD
@Sid: And that's the same with PP's minis... Ridiculous pricing, and well-deserved criticism when the sculpt doesn't measure up to the price.
722
Post by: Kanluwen
dogma wrote:Kanluwen wrote:...
Wow. New low.
You get this gorgeous model...
And people are focusing on the "wings looking too static" or "too rounded" or the "pose looking awkward"?
These bigger display Daemons aren't meant to be "kung fu pose #5!" or the like.
Boggles the mind.
Yeah, who are these fools to say things like "the model is ugly", or "it looks like it has Lou Gehrig's Disease" when the intent to expel currency is based on the appearance of the model. It simply boggles the mind that an aesthetic judgment might be meaningful at such a point.
See, I have no issue with the people who actually gave real judgment other than picking one tiny detail that can be(arguably) attributed to the flat and drab painting of a ridged surface.
But that's just my opinion.
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Post by: HyrbidNecro
Flachzange wrote:All in all, I dont think its alright though. Seen worse from GW, thats for damn sure
I agree. Dont get me started on those Possessed Chaos Space Marines that came out when the Medusa campaign started. Talk about just plain horrible.
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Post by: Frazzled
Bumping due to multiple threads on the topic not seeing this one.
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Post by: JD21290
Bumping as im following Frazzled's lead.
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Post by: Kirasu
Sweet a model even more unplayable than anggrath
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Post by: JD21290
Hey!
Could be worse, try fitting a manta on a table without either:
A: Breaking the table and the contents of it.
B: Affording it without the missus killing you.
C: Getting it up and ready to use.
D: carrying it to where the game is held.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
JD21290 wrote:C: Getting it up and ready to use.
That's no problem for any Real Man ( tm). But it strikes me that buying a Manta overlaps pretty strongly with the Smiling Bob demographic...
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Post by: JD21290
I just think it would be amusing to spend all that time putting the fether together, painting it, and trying to make the flying stand last.
then it goes and falls onto the table, crushing everything
And that comment was quick for you john
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
As you get older, you'll learn that quickness to finish isn't necessarily a virtue... I think they got a pill for that, too.
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Post by: JD21290
I thought dimentia sets in with age? or something like that
anyways mate, got work in 6 hours or so and i need sleep
we'll carry this battle of the wits on tomorrow once i get some sleep and get back from work XD
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Post by: anticitizen013
Despite the wings looking pretty crap for a ForgeWorld model, and the sheer size of it (I mean really... it's WAY TOO FREAKIN HUGE), it looks awesome.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
All good, JD. Enjoy your beauty sleep.
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Post by: Elusive71
Has anyone taken a close look at the paintjob on the wings and skin? It's amazing. I love the iridescence of the wings' edges.
As far as the wings and overall pose go, this is supposed to be one of the greaterest of the Greater Daemons of Tzeentch, right? He's not gonna have to do much dancing around or strain too much to unleash the super-spells. I think his static pose conveys "Abracadabra, I can kick your behind without raising a sweat!". Considering the amount of energy he's generating though, it would have been nice to see more rippling of the robe and fluttering of the feathers to represent the winds of magic swirling around him. If needed, there's plenty of toys and garage kits with dynamic wings that would fit...
I don't understand the "He's just a birdman" comments. Lords of Change have always been birdmen (or winged Skeksis rather). If they had given him lots of eyes or made his form more plastic, you can be sure the traditionalists would have been pissed.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Ozymandias wrote:This model is amazing. Why is it so much bigger than the Bloodthirster though?
I don't know for certain that it's 999 points, but given that they've stuck with the sacred numbers so far (666 for the Slaaneshi one, 777 for the Nurgle one and 888 for An'grath) it stands to reason that it'd be 999 points for the Greater LoC.
I feel like I've read confirmation of that somewhere... In addition to the points cost reason and fan preference aside, in the fluff Tzeentch has been hinted at as being the most powerful of the gods seeing as he manipulates the very fabric of their existance. It may have been their intent to reflect this in the size of the model?
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Post by: Darth Bob
Elusive71 wrote:
I feel like I've read confirmation of that somewhere... In addition to the points cost reason and fan preference aside, in the fluff Tzeentch has been hinted at as being the most powerful of the gods seeing as he manipulates the very fabric of their existance. It may have been their intent to reflect this in the size of the model?
I don't want to turn this into a long debate or flood this thread with "No, my god's better than yours" comments, but I'm pretty sure Khorne is considered the most powerful since he's the oldest and his aspect (Violence/War/Conflict/Bloodshed) is the most prominent thing in the galaxy...
But as for this model, I think it's the wings that really kill me about this model. I think it's the rounded edges... Overall, if I were to play Tzeentch (more than likely won't happen), I'd buy the Vrock from Ultraforge and save a crapload of money.
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Post by: Elusive71
Darth Bob wrote:I don't want to turn this into a long debate or flood this thread with "No, my god's better than yours" comments, but I'm pretty sure Khorne is considered the most powerful since he's the oldest and his aspect (Violence/War/Conflict/Bloodshed) is the most prominent thing in the galaxy...
That may be, although is he the oldest? I guess that would make sense since folks have been killing each other for as long as there's been folks. It's definitely a toss-up between the two. I think they're all silly to be honest. I just remember reading something (actually a couple different somethings - one of the Realm of Chaos books or Liber Chaotica maybe?) that hinted at Tzeentch's power over magic and therefore over Chaos and therefore over the other gods. All their powers wax and wane though depending on what's going on in the mortal realm.
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Post by: Darth Bob
Elusive71 wrote:Darth Bob wrote:I don't want to turn this into a long debate or flood this thread with "No, my god's better than yours" comments, but I'm pretty sure Khorne is considered the most powerful since he's the oldest and his aspect (Violence/War/Conflict/Bloodshed) is the most prominent thing in the galaxy...
That may be, although is he the oldest? I guess that would make sense since folks have been killing each other for as long as there's been folks. It's definitely a toss-up between the two. I think they're all silly to be honest. I just remember reading something (actually a couple different somethings - one of the Realm of Chaos books or Liber Chaotica maybe?) that hinted at Tzeentch's power over magic and therefore over Chaos and therefore over the other gods. All their powers wax and wane though depending on what's going on in the mortal realm.
I think all the Chaos Gods hold their power fairly balanced, and as you say, their power waxes and wanes with the mortals (that's why I would say that since people are always fighting in the Grimdark, Khorne's power is constantly fuelled). And yes, to answer your question, Khorne was the first god to reach full fruition and embodiment, with Tzeentch and Nurgle close behind, Slaanesh bringing up the rear (both figuratively and literally ) as the youngest.
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Post by: augustus5
Kanluwen wrote:...
Wow. New low.
You get this gorgeous model...
And people are focusing on the "wings looking too static" or "too rounded" or the "pose looking awkward"?
These bigger display Daemons aren't meant to be "kung fu pose #5!" or the like.
Boggles the mind.
What boggles my mind is how big they made the damn thing. My chaos demons have a hard enough time trying to use cover to get to their targets without being shot to hell. I don't need a model the size of godzilla that towers above my buildings to give me more of a disadvantage.
Also save for the cool staff and horror materialising in his other hand I find the model to be very boring. I'll stick to third parties for my greater demons and demon princes for now.
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Post by: Darth Bob
augustus5 wrote:
What boggles my mind is how big they made the damn thing. My chaos demons have a hard enough time trying to use cover to get to their targets without being shot to hell. I don't need a model the size of godzilla that towers above my buildings to give me more of a disadvantage.
Just curious...but since when has it ever been a perogative to try to get cover saves on something that's called a 'Gargantuan' Creature?
Plus, if he's anything like what his rules were for the display at Gamesday, he's packing T8, W9, and a 3+ invuln.
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Post by: Vitruvian XVII
I think Tzeentch is the most powerful, after all, he once controlled the other 3 gods using his staff, When they all ganged up on him, he broke the crystal and sent it to the far corners of the universe.
Model's amazing, will probably buy it soon, after Scabieathrax but before Anggrath.
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Post by: Lint
Definitely expected more from fw. The armour/staff and the horror's detailing is perfect, but the pose and the wings ruin it for me. Personally I'll be buying the vrok. As stated earlier, ultraforge did it earlier, better, and cheaper.
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Post by: Redbeard
I got mine yesterday - washed the resin last night, and started work on it tonight.
My advice - if you're not experienced working with resin, this isn't a good choice for a first go at it. I would not recommend this model to anyone without a Dremmel (or other Rotary tool) at the very least.
Several of the pieces are very thin, almost sheetlike - and these have delicate spikes on them. I guess that's somewhat par for the course, I just expect them to break off at some point, and am debating removing some of them myself, so at least I can control where the break is, and paint it with that in mind.
The most complex part was removing the excess resin tab from the wings. Without my Dremmel's cutting and engraving bits, this would have taken days with a knife or file. As it was, even with the power tools, it took at least 15 minutes per wing, perhaps longer. The tabs are at a funny angle, with parts of the wing cupping them, so even a jeweler's saw would be hard pressed to take care of these parts easily.
There are several curious joins (the rear flap of his tabbard is a separate piece, kind of odd for a robe piece), and a decent amount of gap filling will be required (although, this is the case with all large resin pieces).
In person, the wings look better than in the picture. They're not wildly dynamic, but they have a sort of subtle presence to them, like the feeling that, while this guy looks like a somewhat decrepit old bird, he could unleash a ton of power all at once. From what I've seen so far, I really like it. My wife is already saying it will be the best looking of my four daemon lords.
I'm really torn about how to paint the feathers. Part of me wants to paint every feature individually, and make them somewhat kaleidoscopic, with a huge number of differently coloured feathers. But there's also the airbrushed blend approach. It's really easy to do smooth blends with an airbrush, and that's the traditional look for a Lord of Change's wings (Blue through Purple to Red, generally). I think the multi-coloured approach could look cool - and very bold - but I'm worried that it might not work out quite right. I'm very torn about this...
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Post by: Kanluwen
I vote you break open some glowsticks and light those wings up that way. Awww yeah.
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Post by: Persephone 66
I think it looks cool.
I'd like to have one of each of the FW greater daemmons.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
Redbeard wrote:I'm really torn about how to paint the feathers. Part of me wants to paint every feature individually, and make them somewhat kaleidoscopic, with a huge number of differently coloured feathers. But there's also the airbrushed blend approach. It's really easy to do smooth blends with an airbrush, and that's the traditional look for a Lord of Change's wings (Blue through Purple to Red, generally). I think the multi-coloured approach could look cool - and very bold - but I'm worried that it might not work out quite right. I'm very torn about this...
I'm suddenly reminded of an army that Janthkin once put together. It was an Eldar army I believe, all done in a very nice set of metallic colours. I could see this things wings have a metallic 'sheen' to them.
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