That said, here are NEW RUMORS that I think nobody have posted in here yet. They come from the italian forum "GW TILEA", and the guy who brought them to the community claims to be reliable (of course it doesn't mean he actually is ).

here we go:

-The BA 'dex is DONE and complete already.

-New conversion kits similar to the ones made for the space wolves. These kits are said to be EXTRAORDINARY (I mean.. beautiful!), with a level of detail similar to that of the models in space hulk (or even better). (PS this seems quite certain, it has been confirmed by my local GW seller, who also stated some big news about BA may be revealed at the italian games day).

SOME informations about the rules

-The codex will allow the player to field a top notch assault army: assault squads will be a troop choice, with options similar to those of the new grey hunters in the SW dex: 2Xspecial weapons and no heavy weapons at all (of course). Seargents will be similar to those of the SM dex (more options: thunder hummer, LC and such).

- a physic power called "vortex of blood", or something like that, will give the caster a CC attacks bonus equal to the number of models in base contact (or even in combat radius?! but it would be too powerful..)

-New indipendent characters.

I can't reassure these rumors are true, of course. I just TRIED to translate them in english and posted them here.

Ah, date of release: march, after the tyrs.

I think that all of this will make the Blood Angels overpowered but what do you think??

The BA do need a codex IMHO they were playable before jervis jervisdized them. Also with the overpowered thing Guard and spacewolves when they came out seemed overpowered and some units are so I think the BA will be just the same.

Right now, Blood Angels desperately need a Codex. If only because, right now, all they have is a White Dwarf mini-dex.

While I would have perfered BA and the rest of the SM be put into the SM dex with appropriate amount of fluff and rules etc cant change that so yes I do think they should get a new codex. As for overpowered I doubt it I think they will be like wolves quite strong but not overpowered just seem extremely scary at the time.

I desperately hope they are overpowered. I want them to make the space wolf dex look like Necrons do currently. I want Carnifexs to run in fear..

The reason is simply so dakka will have something to talk about and so codex Khorne I mean Codex Space Wolves will only catch a brief glimpse in the sun.

Truly The fact that BA have been perverted into the assault marine spam army is sad IMO. But meh.

Shaman, you do realise BA have allways been assault marine spam right?

But not as troops.

Also I remember them being Rhino rushers now that I think about it but that was back in 3rd..

Look at the BA company layout mate
BA have allways been dedicated assault marines, hence why they actually have a packed chapter master and chappy.

also, FWIW, sanguinius had wings, which might have been how the style started out as fast moving assaults.

Maybe I have become senile in my youth.

I concur, BA are the Marine Assault Army

Templars have Crusader squads. Space Wolves have both Grey Hunters and Blood Claws. I see no reason from their background why BA shouldn't have asault squads as a troop choice.

G

BA definitely need a new codex.
The current one was jervisified similar to the DA codex.

Blood angels are awesome i hope the new dex makes space wolves look like [see forum posting rules] in puffy babyblue armour.
and i may just wet my pants if they make a new mephiston model the old one sucks now bring back the lord of death an throw them horns up \m/


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apologies for my potty mouth


Automatically Appended Next Post:
apologies for my potty mouth

Several BA special characters need an overhaul.
But the Termies from Space Hulk are awesome and should in some way be included into the new BA miniature range.

wuestenfux: Agreed on the characters.
Dante, being a chapter master and all, needs eternal warrior (like all others, or even a similar rule)

As does mephiston (even though theres not much S10 out there, there are still force weps and the likes)

Tycho - He needs a re-write, the current PDF one is pure gak, he has nothing worth taking.


also, i actually have a unit of 5 hulk termies in my BA army lol (lorenzo and 4 basic layouts from hulk)

I am hoping they bring back Moriar the Chosen and make DC complex again.

G

GBF: It will be nice having some options with the DC, rather than basic troops.
The option to take down vehicles via a fist will be more than welcome

I would just like something of professional quality again. Sometimes I feel like I get laughed at for having my codex printed on regular paper with a clear report holder.

Mostly I'd like to see more fluff/artwork development

The BA are one of the major Chapters so yeah, I think they should have a new 'dex.

P.S. I do believe this codex has been discussed before.

P.S.S. I also believe GW needs to release revamped DE, WH, DH, etc. as well...

I'd like to see a non power armor race done. The BA get along fine.

I do hope a new blood angles codex comes out because I'm going to collect them after I finished my chaos army and sold my orks, and I think it's good for them to be a bit overpowered but just not too much that it makes the game unbalanced.

Nidz are next so nothing wrong with BA getting the codex we finally deserve so we can do even better.

G

What does 'jervisified' mean?
I realise it has to do with Jervis Johnson, but what characterises it?

adielubbe wrote:What does 'jervisified' mean?
I realise it has to do with Jervis Johnson, but what characterises it?

HBMC used to have it in his sig, it means to make something boring and take away the fun rules.

There are other Codici that need a rules update a lot harder then the Blood Angels do (Necrons probably being the best example). As another poster said as well, I would've been a lot happier with one big Space Marine Codex (as in: no seperate Codici for Chapters). Now that isn't going to happen, so Blood Angels (and Dark Angels probably even more, ruleswise) need a new Codex sometime, but I just think there are other armies which deserve it a lot more at the moment (you know, armies that have 10 year old models, or that are just totally unplayable in the current edition).

(you know, armies that have 10 year old models,

BA do indeed have quite a few models over 10 years old
Also, DA have a much newer dex so they can wait.

Dark eldar: They are dreamers, 2,020 if they are lucky.
Necrons: Who are these guys? thought they went like the squats did

If you think GW is going to/should combine all SM armies into one codex they could do the same with xenos.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:If you think GW is going to/should combine all SM armies into one codex they could do the same with xenos.

G

That'd be awesome. Even GW could do all the Codexes in one year. Huzzah!

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:The BA are one of the major Chapters so yeah, I think they should have a new 'dex.

P.S. I do believe this codex has been discussed before.

P.S.S. I also believe GW needs to release revamped DE, WH, DH, etc. as well...

What are doing on this thread, you cant like the thought of a new BA DEX, nobody is supposed to like the idea of a new one especially if you have a tiny one. What we need is a new Space Wolf Codex with thing like Space Wolves riding big giant Wolves.

Anpu42 wrote:

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:The BA are one of the major Chapters so yeah, I think they should have a new 'dex.

P.S. I do believe this codex has been discussed before.

P.S.S. I also believe GW needs to release revamped DE, WH, DH, etc. as well...

What are doing on this thread, you cant like the thought of a new BA DEX, nobody is supposed to like the idea of a new one especially if you have a tiny one. What we need is a new Space Wolf Codex with thing like Space Wolves riding big giant Wolves.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT: Double post O' doom!

Green Blow Fly wrote:If you think GW is going to/should combine all SM armies into one codex they could do the same with xenos.

G

Ye, because Eldar, Orks and Tyranids are obviously the same race...

I am happy without one.

I think my brothers BA army is powerfull enough without being ultraspazed by the latest round of GW's "Spaz Marinz must be bestest of all HURH" codex update.

Dal'yth Dude wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:If you think GW is going to/should combine all SM armies into one codex they could do the same with xenos.

G

That'd be awesome. Even GW could do all the Codexes in one year. Huzzah!

PROFANITY IS NOT ALLOWED ON DAKKA. -The Mgmt.

Airmaniac wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:If you think GW is going to/should combine all SM armies into one codex they could do the same with xenos.

G

all xenos are target practice for the Imperium of man.

G

Ye, because Eldar, Orks and Tyranids are obviously the same race...

Green Blow Fly wrote:If you think GW is going to/should combine all SM armies into one codex they could do the same with xenos.

G

Blood Angels and Dark Angels are similar enough to warrant being shunted into the primary SM codex or being made a supplement to the SM codex. As it is, they have only a few minor variations with the bulk of the lists being identical to the SM codex. The differences between Eldar, Orks, Tyranids, Tau, and Necrons are HUGE. The diferences between Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Blood Angels are not.

Blood Angel units unique from vanilla SM:

Furisio dreadnaught/Death Company upgrade available
Baal predator
Honorguard (including characters tech adept & sanguinary priest)
Veteran assault Marines
Death Company Marines
Mephiston
Dante
Corbulo
Captain Tycho
Chaplain Lemartes

You cannot include all those units in a generic SM codex, it won't work and if you tried people that play armies like Iron Hands and Mentor Legion would cry it's unfair.

Dark Angels have both Deathwing and Ravenwing which means you can field three separate armies from the same codex. Both BA and DA are founding chapters plus they have been with us a long long time and have huge followings. The argument to wrap them all up in one codex doesn't make any sense.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Blood Angel units unique from vanilla SM:

Furisio dreadnaught/Death Company upgrade available [Upgrade to dreadnought]
Baal predator [Upgrade to normal predator]
Honorguard (including characters tech adept & sanguinary priest) [Hmmm...use the Honor Guard from C: SM, and have a couple upgrades]
Veteran assault Marines [Upgrade to Veteran marines]
Death Company Marines [Additional unit, like LotD that can only be used if you have a BA special character]
Mephiston [Special character]
Dante[Special character]
Corbulo[Special character]
Captain Tycho[Special character]
Chaplain Lemartes [Special Character]

Even then, not all of the BA special characters are really needed. Just remove crud like Telion from the current Space Marine codex and you're good.

At the same time, an Eldar aspect warrior is about as similar to a Necron soldier as white is to black.

I think that the SM codices should be like so:

C: SM (Has most of the chapters)
C: Deviant SM (Has BT, DA, and BA)
C: Spacewolves (These guys are the deviant's deviant and actually need their own codex, imo)

Look, I'm jazzed for a BA only dex, but it does seem a bit silly. There should be one big SM dex the size of the rule book which has all the SM info and everything for the big 10 chapters.

I keep asking this and never get a good answer.

Why do you hate it if my Army gets a new Codex, I don’t hate yours when you get one?

Green Blow Fly wrote:Blood Angel units unique from vanilla SM:

Furisio dreadnaught/Death Company upgrade available

> dread/veteran dread with a CC option

Baal predator

> pred with different turret

Honorguard (including characters tech adept & sanguinary priest)

> retinue with different weapon options or an additional USR

Veteran assault Marines

> vanguard with different weapon options

Death Company Marines

> could easily be veterans or assault squads with feel no pain or two wounds

Mephiston
Dante
Corbulo
Captain Tycho
Chaplain Lemartes

> special characters easily added to any Codex or supplement

You cannot include all those units in a generic SM codex, it won't work and if you tried people that play armies like Iron Hands and Mentor Legion would cry it's unfair.

> with the base stats and weapon stats the same among different chapters all these differences come down to FOC and squad weapon options. Does that really require its own book? Your argument logically would make Mentor Legion cry when BA codex is released. You and GW don't give players enough credit to customize a generic list to the background. Its what CSM players have to do.

Dark Angels have both Deathwing and Ravenwing which means you can field three separate armies from the same codex. Both BA and DA are founding chapters plus they have been with us a long long time and have huge followings. The argument to wrap them all up in one codex doesn't make any sense.

> so what about craftworlds, septs, other legions? They've been around just ss long. Do you want an Iron Hands codex just because they have more dreads and a different techmarine/chaplain? Where do you draw the line?


G

The reply stating the special units can be easily replaced is a total load of bullocks. I was talking to some my BA mates and they all agreed. Total bullocks.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:You cannot include all those units in a generic SM codex, it won't work and if you tried people that play armies like Iron Hands and Mentor Legion would cry it's unfair.

If Chaos 3.5 could have 9 armies in it, SMs can have 4. Hell, Night Lords/Alpha Legion/Word Bearers/Iron Warriors all had ONE page, and they still played completely different to one another. The 4 cult armies had even more variety, being 3 or 4 pages of size 10 font in two columns with rule after rule after rule.

Yeah same with Craftworld until they decided that having 1 page extra to make your army unique was way too much. Now you just have vanilla Eldar rules in which you have to try to represent the differences :(

I'm not too fussed about BA getting a new codex, it might mean my friend who plays them retakes up the hobby. He put them into the attic when they changed the DC rules and his scout based army became obsolete.

They have already written the codex and have a new line of miniatures ready to release. It's not like whining and crying here is going to suddenly shame GW into not releasing the new BA. Get over it already people.

G

I dont think anybody said otherwise, nor do I think anybody was crying. If you dont like the topic, just don't read it.

Oh I love the topic. And you aren't in a position to tell me to not post here.

G

I never said that either. Stop putting words in people's mouths.

Look mate don't get all hot and bothered. I am entitled to my opinions.

I have also heard BT will probably get a new codex next year as well. They really need an update as well. Hopefully GW can put put four new codices next year... This year was rather slim.

G

There should be three marine codex's.

1.Vanilla marines
2.Chapters of the Imperium (With BA, BT and Dark Angels)
3.Space wolves

So, why should pups get an independant dex?

I just think they should go back to how it was with the angels of death codex.

Because space puppies are very different from the other SM armies.

He probably plays puppies. Personally I am a big fan of all the separate SM books. Vanilla is there for the following chapters:

Iron Hands
Salamanders
White Scars
Imperial Fists
Crimson Fists
Ultramarines

BA, DA and SW are too unique to all roll up into one book, it would never work and seeing that most people play SM in general it would make a lot of people very mad... GW knows better than to do that.

G

G

Because space puppies are very different from the other SM armies.

Hardly.
DA, BA, pups, templars, they all vary alot in both styles, options and models.
So i dont see how pups should get a dex here.

Us Puppies got our Codex so we are good for the next 10 years.
Personally I like the idea of Angle of Death Codex, the same way I would like Codex: Inquisition.
If you have read the Codex: Blood Angles you can see how different they are from the Vanilla Marines, the same thing with Dark Angles and Black Templers.

Try to make a Blood Angles with Codex: Vanilla Marines, it just won’t fell right for most players.

What you would end up with Codex: Really Vanilla Marines is 10 pages if this special characters and 30+ pages of Special Units that some armies could use and could not use.
This character Gives you Access to this unit, this unit, but not this unit. You might as well go back to the Deviations at that point.

I remember over on the B&C BA forum when the new nilla codex came out... A lot of BA players were upset since they did not get the nice 3+ SS... not that BA even use SS that much. So there was a big stink and a lot of players decided to play red Marines using the nilla codex. Within a month the vast majority of them came back to the PDF codex... They missed their DC, Furisios, veteran assault Marines and Baal predators. All of a sudden the nice stormshields were no longer such a big deal anymore.

When i go to tournaments I always see a good number of BA armies present, they obviously aren't as popular as nilla Marines but I see a lot more BA as compared to Dark Angels, Templars and even the new puppies. I play all over central Florida so I'm talking about a large number of stores.

G

GBF: If i ever do take assault termies its usually against nids, and ill take claws every time
Who needs SS?

Just prefer the flavour that the pdf offers.
Shame that scouts are an elite choice, since for thier points they aint bad (marines with a 4+)
throw em a pistol and CCW and they are good to go.
Even buy em a pod if you want

I always run one TH so they can take out walkers... It's an insurance policy.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:The reply stating the special units can be easily replaced is a total load of bullocks. I was talking to some my BA mates and they all agreed. Total bullocks.

G

I guess that makes it true.

Look, I realize GW is going to make as many SM Codexes as they can to milk money from players such as yourself, but saying that all those BA units are really unique and that other BA players agree with you doesn't strike me as a strong argument for your position.

The thing about Blood Angels is the army is heavily composed of jump infantry. You can't do that with nilla SM and that's why many BA players feel that the nilla codex is a very poor substitute at best. Nilla has no jump infantry for troop choices or HQ (BA Honorguard with a tech adept and sanguinary priest). Before anyone seriously suggests using Vanguard just stop a moment and think how expensive they are. Also nilla SM has no dreadnaughts with 2x DCCW or Death Company or Baal Predators. Like I have said before when the new nilla codex was released many BA players tried to play red Marines but all of them quickly came back to the PDF codex in a hurry. You can't add one new special character to the nilla codex and make Blood Angels. GW said that BA would eventually get a real codex when the PDF was released so it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

G

Hammers are too slow for me against nids though mate.
I want to throw a bucket of re-rollable power wep hits into a MC and make sure it dies.
If im against an army that would warrant it, then i may think about hammers.
But i tend to have assault melta vets for anti-tank.
and a baal for light vehicles, tri-las pred for heavies and a vindi for anything lol.


Actually GBF, nillas have the iron clad, which does have 2 DCCW's, and better armour lol, but i miss my extra D3 attacks.

Dal'yth Dude wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:The reply stating the special units can be easily replaced is a total load of bullocks. I was talking to some my BA mates and they all agreed. Total bullocks.

G

I guess that makes it true.

This is exactly what I wanted to say before I read Dal'yth Dude his reply. How do your BA mates agreeing make it true?

Anyway, Blood Angels are as different from Ultra Marines as Ulthwe are from Biel-Tan, or as Emperor's Children are from World Eaters. You are just pissed off because some people actually think your not so original (as in: almost the same as Ultra Marines) army shouldn't get it's own Codex, but instead be part of one big Space Marine Codex. I totally understand you for wanting a seperate Codex for your Blood Angels, but don't go screaming bs like all Xenos races being as much a like as the Space Marine Chapters are. As a final question to you: did you support the vanishing of the Eldar Craftworlds Codex?

Yeah I missed that about the ironclad but let's be real, it's just not the same thing as a venerable Furisio Death Company dreadnaught.

If you want to go all LC with your termies then good for you. I was just pointing out why I take one thunder hammer. I run Dante and Corbulo so my termies have furious charge and preferred enemy... 16 lightning claw S5 attacks that reroll hits and wounds has always got the job done for me... It's wicked really.

G

I know, its cheaper

I just rather use the BA PDF since it makes alot more CC orientated builds possible.

Im more of a mephiston fan than dante
I tend to throw him with the DC and let him hack through units, or, ill send him against the off MC thats wandering about.

I used to run Mephiston all the time with Corbulo and DC. He is even more of a monster with furious charge. He is notched down a bit though in fifth with the nerfs to fnp and all these crazy eternal warriors running around now.

G

I know mate, but its not hard to lure a fex out of synapse.

Lets face it, the fex has to try and hit him 1st lol, yes, it will wound when he does, but whats 1 wound gone?
He will slice the fex apart pretty easily.
Also, since he has all 3 powers i can make sure he gets D3 extra attacks, then use wings of sanguinius to launch him into a unit

I just dont find much use for dante really, i find he lacks punch unless he is with a nice big unit and they have the chapter banner.

Dante gives everybody within 12" preferred enemy. He's a force multiplier plus he has the BS5 meltagun for tank busting. I love Mephiston but he is going to bounce against some units. If you play PS you can take Dante, Mephiston and Corbulo!

G

Great, take all 3 and what else can you take?

The BS5 MG isnt really needed.
Ive got enough anti-tank that i dont need him bouncing about.
I can quite happily play against land raider spam and not have to worry about what ill use to kill them.

Also, dante will struggle against most MC's, as upgraded fex's will ID him without a problem.
Meph can simply lose a wound, allthough, i dont see the fex getting any attacks in at any point.

Have been tempted from time to time to take GK allies, but ive never gone into the rules, so not sure how to go about it.
Lets face it, BA allways get outnumbered, might aswell make that a little worse and get some more hard hitting CC troops that can provide covering fire.

I thought Mephiston is not immune to instant death. Fexes are S10. Those T7 5W fexes can be a problem if you get too close. I also like that Dante has Rites of Battle, it really helps a lot.

G

Fexes are S9 mate, only with an upgrade are they S10
So the basic barbed fex or screamer killer are fair game as meph is T5

Also, if they are out of synapse its just a case of ID them with a force wep.
Failing that, slog it out with the fex as it continues to miss.

Im just not a dante fan, i only used to run him with lem in an all jump inf. army.
Since then i just havent found a good enough use for him.

That is fine I just think he is a better choice in 5th. YMMV.

G

I do think Blood Angels need a Codex. But not just yet. I say this as a Blood angels player who loathes the current Codex. Ok, so it's a .pdf, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Ok, so it's a terrible Codex, but it's not the worst. Plus, it's a lot more recent than Dark Eldar, Necrons, Inquisition etc. And I think Gw need to shift their focus away from the Imperium a bit, and bring back variant Codexes for some other armies before updating another Marines variant.
BA could do with an update -- I'd love for them to get the Space Wolves treatment -- but it shouldn't be their turn yet, or for a long time.

I remember over on the B&C BA forum when the new nilla codex came out... A lot of BA players were upset since they did not get the nice 3+ SS... not that BA even use SS that much. So there was a big stink and a lot of players decided to play red Marines using the nilla codex. Within a month the vast majority of them came back to the PDF codex... They missed their DC, Furisios, veteran assault Marines and Baal predators. All of a sudden the nice stormshields were no longer such a big deal anymore.

When i go to tournaments I always see a good number of BA armies present, they obviously aren't as popular as nilla Marines but I see a lot more BA as compared to Dark Angels, Templars and even the new puppies. I play all over central Florida so I'm talking about a large number of stores.

G

I was a Dark Angel player and I switched to the normal codex when it came out for quite a while. What I ended up doing was going back to the 3rd edition DA mini-dex on top of the 5th ed SM codex (it took a little tweeking since the new SM codex has no armoury) all my friends I play with are fine with that. I don't even know where my 4th edition DA codex is, but who cares that codex is garbage, at least the blood angel codex, such as it is, is playable

Currently they do others
Imperial Codex
Xenos Codex
Imperial Codex
Xenos Codex
Imperial Codex
So what would be next?

9/10 times when i play BA i take Dante/BrotherC. The ability to turn VAS into Str5 Int5 with PE is fairly amazing and should not be underestimated.

It's a lot better than Mephiston in my opinion. Sure Mephiston is a killing but one shot from a railgun and his goose is cooked. Heck even a dreadnaught can toast him. With Dante and Corbs you get a lot more attacks that for the most part are as good as what Mephiston offers. Mephiston is a monster no doubt about it but he lacks an invulnerable save. You are paying close to the same amount of points as Abbadon.

Whether people feel BA don't deserve their own codex just yet doesn't really matter as it is already written and scheduled for release in 2010.

G

Just because the codex is being done, that doesn't mean we can't discuss if it should be done.

On the subject of unique units, only one is really unique: Death Company. All the others could have been shoe-horned into Codex: Space Marines with ease. Furioso involves giving the Dread an option for a second CC weapon. The Honor Guard would involve giving Command Squads the option for Jump Packs (which is a curious omission, they did give them the option for bikes). The Assault Marines as troops could have been tacked onto Dante or some other special character. Someof the Special Characters would have been dropped, but only three are that popular anywho.

I have to disagree and think you are missing the point. BA have been around for a long long time are still a very popular army. Like I said a lot of BA players experimented with red Marines but quickly came back to BA. if you think it's an easy solution that just tells me you don't understand BA, their rules and their background. It's not as simple as making a special character that gives everyone furious charge and a jump pack for free. BA are very unique as compared to nilla Marines.

G

This does bring a good point, is the furiosio dread being removed entirely? After all the ironclad dread IS better. And the idea of a death company Ironclad makes my pants sticky.

Green Blow Fly wrote:I have to disagree and think you are missing the point. BA have been around for a long long time are still a very popular army. Like I said a lot of BA players experimented with red Marines but quickly came back to BA. if you think it's an easy solution that just tells me you don't understand BA, their rules and their background. It's not as simple as making a special character that gives everyone furious charge and a jump pack for free. BA are very unique as compared to nilla Marines.

G

Obviously when you put it all in one big Space Marine Codex, they aren't going to be exactly the same. However, this was the case for the Eldar Craftworlds as well. Where is my Ranger Disruption Table for the Alaitoc and how do I build the large Seer Council that was allowed for an Ulthwe army? Not to mention my Fire Dragons being Troops choices for my Biel-Tan. Games Workshop have done it before, and because this would involve your army, you are against it. I totally understand that, but that doesn't mean I don't think BA (and all other SM Chapters) should be in one big Space Marine codex. As it is now, all those Space Marine Chapters take way to much time from Games Workshop. It's bad enough that Space Marines get the 'always first to be updated after a new edition' treatment, we don't need Space Marines version II, version III, version IV and version V taking up all other release slots. There are armies that need an update a lot more then version III of the Space Marines Codex does.

Oh Lord no one cares about your precious eldar craftworlds. Start another thread so you can cry elsewhere.

G

Anything that individualised armies is surely a good thing for the game in general. Individualisation of the Marines, Chaos and Eldar... stopping the repeatative lists I seem to face week in week out at the GW store Therefore I equally desire/welcome all codexes of the non-vanilla kind!

How much work does it really take to edit a codex? I think there should be one for everything, every craftworld, every ork klan, every chaos chapter. I mean couldn't you just pay some very enthusiastic fans to scrape together known canon (assuming GW hasn't done it), and add some new freshness, add game enhancing characteristics, and bam! I know I over simplified the process, but seriously, what have they been doing year to year? Unless their creative teams is just 4 people....

Green Blow Fly wrote:Oh Lord no one cares about your precious eldar craftworlds. Start another thread so you can cry elsewhere.

G

This is exactly why you are a hypocrite. Eldar Craftworlds shouldn't get seperate Codici, while Space Marine Chapters should. At least be a man and admit the only reason you don't want BA stacked into the Space Marine Codex is because you play them yourself.

And for the record, I don't want Eldar to get seperate Craftworld Codici, I just want them to design the Eldar army list in such a way that it is possible to play the Craftworld armies (so 1 Eldar Codex for all Craftworlds, just like there should be 1 Space Marine Codex for all Chapters).

Blood Angels have always had their own codex, AoD being shared with DA. Please don't try to say now that you don't want a Craftworld codex... You're so funny!

G

Airmaniac wrote:This is exactly why you are a hypocrite. Eldar Craftworlds shouldn't get seperate Codici, while Space Marine Chapters should. At least be a man and admit the only reason you don't want BA stacked into the Space Marine Codex is because you play them yourself.

And for the record, I don't want Eldar to get seperate Craftworld Codici, I just want them to design the Eldar army list in such a way that it is possible to play the Craftworld armies (so 1 Eldar Codex for all Craftworlds, just like there should be 1 Space Marine Codex for all Chapters).

Well said.

Each codex should cover all derivitives of the armies described by the codex. So, all the SM chapters should be in one SM codex, all the IG should be in one IG codex, all the chaos forces (daemons and CSM etc) should be in one chaos codex.

You don't see a seperate codex for each chaos god, or each notable regiment/planetry army in the IG codex, and as has been pointed out the Eldar can't even play half their fluffy builds any more, let alone get each craftoworld in their own individual book.

It's not going to happen. If that were so it would already be the case. In fact GW could just make two big books... One for the forces of order and the other for the forces of disorder. You can then argue which book armies like the Tau should appear in.

G

They could put all the army lists into the main rule book if they really wanted to.

The main reason that they maintain certain army lists seperately from the main army codexes is because they know there is enough interest in "group x" of "army y" to sell a whole load of extra rule books aside from the main "army y" book.

I am sure that if Tau were the main selling army GW had out, they would probably get "Codex Tau" and "Codex Farsight" or some such.

However, the splitting of what is essentially the same army like this, while it makes money, is a pain in the bum for all concerned. Rather than keeping all the rules together so that you don't need to keep flicking between books (and have to buy extra books from the start) and thus making it easier to play and build different variations of "army y" into "groups a, b and c", you then have to go out and buy the codex for group a, group b and group c seperately from the army x book, which is just stupid.

Keeping them apart also just means that the majority of people will just stick with the same old bland and boring armies that are represented in the main army book. Why spend another £20 on a mini-dex when you can play the majority of the SM chapters out there with the main army book?

Including all the chapters under one roof (even if you literally keep them in seperate sections within the main dex) will encorage diversity right from the start.

Jervis doesn't write codices anymore, you may have noticed.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Blood Angels have always had their own codex, AoD being shared with DA. Please don't try to say now that you don't want a Craftworld codex... You're so funny!

G

Me being funny sure is a good argument from your point of view isn't it?

Can you please explain to me why you are not a hypocrite for thinking the Craftworlds Eldar Codex was not needed while seperate Codici for several SM Chapters are necessary?

What I am seeing is that if tomorrow every race came out, then they announced that next month Codex: Marine Chapter X came out they will still be complaining about how all of the Space Marine Love.

Anpu42 wrote:What I am seeing is that if tomorrow every race came out, then they announced that next month Codex: Marine Chapter X came out they will still be complaining about how all of the Space Marine Love.

I don't think so

A lot of the Space Marine hate appears to come from people who are sick of there always being a new SM codex within the last 2-3 codex releases, while some of the major xeno races out there go for years without so much as a new model, let alone a codex that goes with the current rules.

I personally think that they should release all the new codexes at the same time as they release a new set of rules, so that everything is all up to date and (hopefully) balanced and nothing languishes behind, never to see the light of day.

Exactly Anpu!

G

Yes realizes all of the Codices at once would be nice, but is it poor business practice. Once month everyone buys all of there books and then until the next rules update there are no real sales.

Now onto my complaining about the new Marine Codex Bashing.

When I joined Dakka there was a lot of whining about the Space Wolves and how it was Unfair the Space Marines were getting a new Codex, some about the supposed over the top powers that were going to break the game, but mostly how unfair it was that Maries were getting a new Codex and not the others.

Then Space Wolves came out and it was confirmed that the Bugs were going to get a new one and the discussion went to how there were going to be made two powerful or Nerfed, but that was all. No real complaining of why they are getting new one and not army X, just some “I wish they would work on my army first” complaints.

The moment it was announced that Codex: Blood Angles was coming out the “Why do the Marines Always get a new Codex?” has started all over again.

I relies that if the Codex: Dark Eldar goes next, then Codex: Inquisition, then Codex: Necron, then Codex: Dark Angles we will get the same thing. GW is getting around to redoing all of the Codices, they have a schedule for this, but I am getting tired of the Imperial Bashing.

The codex system is broken from a rules point of view. At any given time half the armies are out of date. But GW persists with the codices because they use them to drive model sales. The rules are very secondary.

The codex and model sales linkage extends to what armies get done and when. They don't release a codex without nifty new models. We may have armies in the pipe that have completed codices but not have new models yet and we may have armies in the pipe with models that are ready to go, but the codex isn't finished yet. BA are being released, as has been stated time and again in various threads, because they are a quick win: updated codex, a sprue or two, a resculpted Lemartes and bam that's it.

I agree that all of the SM chapters should be in one big, fat book. This may make the xenos feel a little better in that the SMs won't have so many books, but it won't improve the xeno situation at all. The big book would still require the same amount of development resources and wouldn't be any shorter than the current model of separate books. At best it would create holes in the release cycle that could be filled by completed xeno projects.

As I mentioned in an ealier post, GW is all about the cash, hence why we actually have a million SM codexes, rather than just one, and why we will never get everything at once

I think you have answered your own concerns over the "bashing" that SM codexes get really (over and above the regular grumbling that most codexes get about being OP, messed up, etc).

It is not a case of "imperial bashing", it is a case of "holy god not another SM codex" bashing.

I can't remember off the top of my head how many SM codexes there are, but say there are 10 of them.

Now, if we follow the standard format you suggest above: 3 non SM codexes, then an SM codex. That means that every year (assuming that we get 4 new codexes a year) we get a new SM codex. Now, in order to update all of them to the "current" rules as we have now would take 10 years.

Now, again, I can't remember off the top of my head how many other codexes there are out there, but I will go with about 20 (which again should tell you something if a full 1/3rd of your rule books are just for different coloured space marines [note again that I am just making up the numbers, I can't remember how many there actually are]).

At 3 a year, you need just over 6 and a half years to update them all.

However, if there was just one SM codex, it would take 1 issue to get all the SM up to date (and I am sure no one would mind much if they were released first either but there probably would still be complaints ). Then it would only take 5 years to update all the other codexes, rather than 6.5.

However, as we all know, they don't put out 4 a year every year, nor do they go SM, other, other, other, SM, etc. SM are almost always more regularly updated than that.

All my figures here are just make believe, as I don't particularly feel like looking them all up (feel free yourself, perhaps you will demonstrate that I am wrong), and just wanted to give a ball park imagining that is easy to follow as to why people get a bit sick and tired of SM always getting new stuff when there are amies that have been sitting gathering dust for 10+ years and/or removed from existance for no particular reason at all.

1.Codex: Space Marine
2.Codex: Dark Angels
3.Codex: Space Wolves
4.Codex: Black Templers
5.Codex: Blood Angles [Soon]
That-5 Marine Books
6.Codex: Imperial Guard
7.Codex: Daemon Hunters
8.Codex: Witch Hunters
-I don’t think I missed any
That’s-8 Imperial Books


1.Codex: Tyranids
2.Codex: Eldar
3.Codex: Dark Eldar
4.Codex: Chaos
5.Codex: Chaos Daemons
6.Codex: Necrons
7.Codex: Tau
8.Codex: Orks
-I don’t think I missed any
That’s-8 Xenos Books

One book is not a good solution and the majority of SM players don't want this. It's too much of a Warmachine approach to the game and GW has stated they will do each army as a separate codex. Rolling a bunch of armies into one codex is when you really start to see broken armies:

Armageddon - Speed Freaks, Templars
Eye of Terror - Lost and the Damned

There are always people will whine about SM getting all the new shiny toys... it's always been that way.

G

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_(Warhammer_40,000)#5th_Edition

The above link has all the realesse dates for all the codexes back to 3rd dition (apperently) I have put them into date order (because apparently wikipedia does not like it in date order ) below for all our entertainment.

5th Edition
Space Wolves - October 2009
Imperial Guard - May 2009
Space Marines - October 2008

4th Edition
Orks - January 2008
Chaos Daemons - May 2008
Chaos Space Marines - September 2007
Dark Angels - March 2007
Eldar - November 2006
Tau Empire - March 2006
Black Templars - November 2005
Tyranids - June 2005

Blood Angels[2] N/A -


3rd Edition
Witch Hunters - April 2004
Dark Eldar (revised) - November 2003[3]
Daemonhunters - March 2003
Necrons - July 2002

There is also a chance that the Imperials are going to loos one if Codex: Inquisistion comes out.

Anpu42 wrote:1.Codex: Space Marine
2.Codex: Dark Angels
3.Codex: Space Wolves
4.Codex: Black Templers
5.Codex: Blood Angles [Soon]
That-5 Marine Books
6.Codex: Imperial Guard
7.Codex: Daemon Hunters
8.Codex: Witch Hunters
-I don’t think I missed any
That’s-8 Imperial Books


1.Codex: Tyranids
2.Codex: Eldar
3.Codex: Dark Eldar
4.Codex: Chaos
5.Codex: Chaos Daemons
6.Codex: Necrons
7.Codex: Tau
8.Codex: Orks
-I don’t think I missed any
That’s-8 Xenos Books

Yes, OR:

1. Codex Space Marines
2. Codex Imperial Guard
3. Codex Witch Hunters
4. Codex Daemonhunters
That's 4 Imperial Books

1. Codex Chaos Space Marines
2. Codex World Eaters
3. Codex Emperor's Children
4. Codex Ulthwe
5. Codex Bielt-Tan
6. Codex Saim-Hann
7. Codex Orks
8. Codex Speed Freaks
etc.

See what I did there?

Anpu42 wrote:There is also a chance that the Imperials are going to loos one if Codex: Inquisistion comes out.

I would certainly support that so long as the codexes which are being combined are properly represented within the new codex. Which one would hope and expect that they are.

I suppose it depends on if you view the 40k galaxy as containing two factions (Imperial and Xenos), or many (Imperial Guard, Space marines, Chaos, Tyranids, Eldar Orks etc etc). This effects our notions of what is a fair ammount of support. I guess if you see things according to option 1, then it would seem alright for Marines to get 5 Codexes, to make up the Imperial numbers and make them 'equal' with the Xenos. I, however, suscribe to option 2 - there are many different factions in 40k, each of them deserving of equal treatment. Marines are all types of Marines, but Tyranids and Necrons (for example) are not simply two variants of Xenos, they're entirely different and seperate to each other. They should be given equal support to each other, and each should be given the same ammount of support as Marines.

However, even if you view 40k as having two sides, you still have to admit that the past three codexes, that is all the Codexes released since 5th, have been Imperial. So either way you cut it, the non Imperial/MEQ armies are getting a raw deal, and one Xenos book between SW and BA doesn't redress the balance.

The SM have roughly 1/3 - 1/4 of all the codexes (5 of 18 so I was about right suggesting they had 1/3 of the codexes in my "guess the numbers" post.

And as I share Samus' view on what constitues "factions involved" I would agree that is simply too many SM books.

I don't think any logic will change GBF's stance.

FWIW, GW could release 2 marine codexes and easily cover everything which would free up another 3-4 codexes for non-marine players, but GW isn't going to allow it.

Player churn ensure marines will always get updates every edition while people who don't play marines may or may not get a release before the 4 year edition life cycle renews.

Heck, a special character codex with all characters in it would be a good idea. They could all be balanced and have rules for how they modify their codex units, but again GW isn't going to do that.

That link is broken.

G

SilverMK2 wrote:The SM have roughly 1/3 - 1/4 of all the codexes (5 of 18 so I was about right suggesting they had 1/3 of the codexes in my "guess the numbers" post.

And as I share Samus' view on what constitues "factions involved" I would agree that is simply too many SM books.

I would rather think that there are not enough Xenos Books, don't reduce the number of Marines, but give more options to the non-Imperial factions.

Green Blow Fly wrote:Oh Lord no one cares about your precious eldar craftworlds. Start another thread so you can cry elsewhere.

G

At first I thought you were joking, but you really are serious arnt you?


Maybe you should take the blinders off instead of insulting other members and see the hypocrisy in your statements.

Samus666 wrote:I suppose it depends on if you view the 40k galaxy as containing two factions (Imperial and Xenos), or many (Imperial Guard, Space marines, Chaos, Tyranids, Eldar Orks etc etc). This effects our notions of what is a fair ammount of support. I guess if you see things according to option 1, then it would seem alright for Marines to get 5 Codexes, to make up the Imperial numbers and make them 'equal' with the Xenos. I, however, suscribe to option 2 - there are many different factions in 40k, each of them deserving of equal treatment. Marines are all types of Marines, but Tyranids and Necrons (for example) are not simply two variants of Xenos, they're entirely different and seperate to each other. They should be given equal support to each other, and each should be given the same ammount of support as Marines.

However, even if you view 40k as having two sides, you still have to admit that the past three codexes, that is all the Codexes released since 5th, have been Imperial. So either way you cut it, the non Imperial/MEQ armies are getting a raw deal, and one Xenos book between SW and BA doesn't redress the balance.

I could not have said this better myself. Tumbs up!

Anpu42 wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:The SM have roughly 1/3 - 1/4 of all the codexes (5 of 18 so I was about right suggesting they had 1/3 of the codexes in my "guess the numbers" post.

And as I share Samus' view on what constitues "factions involved" I would agree that is simply too many SM books.

I would rather think that there are not enough Xenos Books, don't reduce the number of Marines, but give more options to the non-Imperial factions.

I would love to see Hrud introduced to the fold.

G

Ok, a little back on topic. I'm excited for the new release, because the PDF Print out looks cheesy and the point values aren't exactly equal to the C:SM we have now.

Also, a couple things I just wanted to point out.

Assault Marines as troops has always been an option for BA since I started playing in 3rd edition, this is nothing new, this isn't OP because its already how they operate.

Assault Veterans do not equal Vanguard. Reason being Assault Veteran's already come with Jump Packs as part of the load out and I don't remember them getting as many weapon options as the Vanguards. (I could be wrong, its been awhile since I looked at what options they can take.)

And yes, Blood Angels are the Assault spam of the Space Marines, and they've always been that way since I've started playing. Heavy Assault troops, deep strike, and blitzing tanks with overcharged engines. Come on BA players roll them 6's and move that tank another 6.

As for model updates, I have all the special characters and besides my Dante (that I messed up since it was one my first models I painted.) I would say I rather like the poses of the BA models as they are. I wouldn't mind them being plastic so I could use my new green stuff skills on them to make them more distinct from the next BA player, but I'll take what I can get. Plus I like my existing paint jobs on some of them. lol

I understand the feelings of Xeno's players, being one myself and enjoying my Tyranids, I see the other side of the coin where you feel left out when they're trying to update the Imperial codexs. And yes there are some in dire need of resurrection, ie. Dark Eldar.

Well that's my 2 cents, take it or leave it but thanks for reading it.

Cheers!

Reverand!

Anpu42 wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:The SM have roughly 1/3 - 1/4 of all the codexes (5 of 18 so I was about right suggesting they had 1/3 of the codexes in my "guess the numbers" post.

And as I share Samus' view on what constitues "factions involved" I would agree that is simply too many SM books.

I would rather think that there are not enough Xenos Books, don't reduce the number of Marines, but give more options to the non-Imperial factions.

And bloat the cycle even more? There are already multiple codecii that are two edition behind.

Why does the xenos lover scum have to pooh pooh on BA?

G

Fexor: I see what you are saying with regards to the Vanguard not having jump packs (but can't confirm it). Again, it comes down to a FOC and weapon/equipment upgrade issue.

Give BA a character that says something like this:

- A allows Vanguard to take jump packs for z points. Assault marines are considered troops
- B allows dreadnoughts to be taken as elite or heavy support options.

Don't forget that in 3rd edition troops weren't quite the same as they are now (IOW scoring units that hold objectives which themselves are more important than in 3rd edition).

Don't assume just because I don't want 4-6 marine codexes I don't play marines. I'll have a BA army in January or February, but that doesn't mean I think they *need* a Codex now nor that they *require* their own Codex.

If a company can only put out 2 Codexes in a year, an edition's lifespan is 4-5 years and there are more than 10 Codexes, obviously some armies will not be updated in a given edition. Just as obviously, Codex: Ultramarines will never be in that position.

BAs didn't get their own Codex until Thorpe's 3rd Ed once which so many people complained about back in the day. Even Angels of Death Codex was two marine chapters. In it was explicitly stated that BAs were Codex except for their dark secret (Death Company/Black Rage).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Green Blow Fly wrote:Why does the xenos lover scum have to pooh pooh on BA?

G

Here's some gold troll. Please go spend it elsewhere.

honnestly if any of the "divergent" marine chapters can be murged with Codex: vanilla marines its the DA codex, since there really isn't anything that makes the DA unique battlefield wise. All they really ever did that was unique was bikes as troops and termies as troops. They're not the "assault" marines they are just generic.

Red_Lives wrote:honnestly if any of the "divergent" marine chapters can be murged with Codex: vanilla marines its the DA codex, since there really isn't anything that makes the DA unique battlefield wise. All they really ever did that was unique was bikes as troops and termies as troops. They're not the "assault" marines they are just generic.

As a DA player i HATE to, but I agre with that statement.

For all of those that are saying marines have too many books: Face it, they wont be cut down, marines make up far too much of thier profit margin.
Why would they kill off something thats doing so well for them?

Lets face it, if Eldar had a book for each craftworld there would still be people complaining.

Whats next, kraken and leviathan needing a book each?



Its just a waiting game with GW.
New books will arrive for everyone at some point, but bitching and moaning about the current ones wont really change a thing, except maybe piss off other people.

JD21290 wrote:but bitching and moaning about the current ones wont really change a thing, except maybe piss off other people.

I always learned this: Speak up or you won't be heard.

Or in other words: If you don't let people you don't agree with the way things are going, then they will certainly not change anything. Will they change anything when people let them know that things could be better? Probably not, but as we say in Holland: If you don't shoot, it's always a miss.

yeah, but complaining doesn't get you anything. Sales are what GW monitors. If the next Codex Eldar jumps off the shelves and demonstrates a great demand for Eldar, then GW might look at doing Craftworld supplements to expand on that. They won't do it based on some wailing and gnashing of teeth on the internet. They're not going to go out on a limb for xeno variants without a good business case.

The fluff revolves around the Imperium. When was the last time the Black Library released a novel about the eldar? Yeah I know there is one. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over then expecting different results. Stop beating your head against a brick wall. I know if feels a lot better when you stop but you could really seriously hurt yourself pilgrim.

Big Daddy G

Air: Then by all means mate, speak up, but other dex's and unfair is not part of this topic, as the title shows

Its true, if you dont shoot then you dont miss.
Its also true that if you dont take the shot, an innocent life could be lost as a result.

This thread asked for my opinion, I gave it. I have a right to state the fatcs. I'm not expecting anything to change, although it would be nice.

SilverMK2 wrote:Including all the chapters under one roof (even if you literally keep them in seperate sections within the main dex) will encorage diversity right from the start.

I dont agree with this at all. When there is a book for an army, it gives you a whole new connection to it. I loved the BA when i first started 40k because they had their own book, with their own story and history. Same with the craftworlds when i played Eldar. Now, do i think the BA needed a new codex? yes, did they need it before some of the other armies? probably not. But i dont think its worth complaining about it, unless you complain about the length of time it takes to release dex's

I personally cant wait for the BA to come out again

What would be ironic is if when the new codex is released it's not as good as the PDF version. It could happen but it seems like the Jervis phase is over now. Both IG and SW got really good codices. I am hoping they bring back stuff like the Sanguinary High Priest and Moriar the Chosen. It's an opportunity to do some really cool stuff so I hope whoever is the developer who writes the book does a great job. To be honest I am not keen on the new SM codex and am hoping they go away from combat squads. I am also hoping they write the rules in such a way it will be easy to build an army that has a strong Flesh Tearers theme. You can kind of build a 13th Company style list with the new SW codex so maybe it will happen. I find the FT to be just as or even moreso popular than BA.

G

I hope that they make a Blood Angels codex that makes the Dark Angels and CSM codices look like masterpieces.

I somehow doubt that will happen. By the way a lot of people consider CSM a great codex. DA get no love though. Q_Q

G

racta wrote:I dont agree with this at all. When there is a book for an army, it gives you a whole new connection to it. I loved the BA when i first started 40k because they had their own book, with their own story and history.

... But you would get your "own" chapters section within the main dex. Full of the fluff from the individual codex that proceeded the super-dex. It is not like they would go all Eldar on a Space Marine Chapter and just get rid of everything

I would bill the combined SM codex as simply being a combination of all the other SM books into one, with all the repeat bits taken out. By combining them all into one book, you will not be loosing all that much.

Although I didn't really see you "disagreeing" with my post, as I didn't mention anything about cutting out fluff, thus stopping you from falling in love with a different colour scheme... erm... I mean SM chapter.

Don't you think there would be more BA players, or DA players, etc, if they were clearly represented in the main codex? Don't you think the amount of blue marines would decrease if they gave some of the more "unique" chapters space in the main codex, rather than having to shell out extra for outdated (other than the SW) rules?

Do Blood Angels need a new codex? Well, of course they do! They are the totally individual red marines with no anger management and the futile hope to attract female beings (gotta lower your standards sometimes...) with their "Ooh, I'm soo a vampire all dark and mysterious and I'm so gonna rescue mankind even if they fear me, all while I am out for revenge hunting my evil brothers" attitude. Let's be honest for a second, how could one not! need a new and improved (jet not spell-/ rulechecked an nowhere soon to be faq'ed) SPACE MARINE Codex?!
Will it be overpowered? True Space Marines aren't overpowered, one only has to accept their superiority (and the fact Jervis "Jervis" likes them). 'Nuff said!

*getting off the soapbox* I don't think, there's need for jet another SM Codex when there are quite a few armies out there that really need an update: necrons, dark eldar (until they just get sucked away), tau maybe. But as far as GW thinks, we all can relax in the comforting thought, that they'll always be ready to give us SMs anytime they... ahem, excuse me: WE want.
Asking a question again for the umph'st time: How can it be that SMs, who basically are all the same unless it comes to color, get five (ok, six counting CSM) Codices, while for instance the IG, as one of the largest organisations to be, has to deal with one?

racta wrote:Now, do i think the BA needed a new codex? yes, did they need it before some of the other armies? probably not. But i dont think its worth complaining about it, unless you complain about the length of time it takes to release dex's

This is basically my problem with there being so much Space Marine Codici. If they would release Codici and Models faster (as in not having main armies that are 2 editions behind), then I wouldn't have a problem with there being Chapter specific Codici. As is though, main armies that are long overdue are being pushed back because Space Marines version III has to be released, which is the only thing I'm frustrated about.

I think it's fine to release Chapter (or Craftworld or Legion) specific Codici, as long as the basic armies are fine. They are not at the moment, so I think the priority should be new Codici and Models for the main armies that need it (Necrons, Daemon Hunters, Dark Eldar, Witch Hunters).

Airmaniac wrote: As is though, main armies that are long overdue are being pushed back because Space Marines version III has to be released, ...

That's a bold assumption. There's absolutely no evidence that other armies are being delayed because of a presumed requirement to release more marines. I think it's more likely that the BA are being released because they were easy to do and got plugged in a hole in the release schedule because the other armies like Dark Eldar and Necrons just aren't ready yet.

So Arschbombe, you think that if Space Wolves wouldn't have been released that GW would have only released one Warhammer 40k Codex in the year 2009 (namely Imperial Guard)?

In my opinion, if Space Wolves wouldn't have gotten that 2nd spot in 2009, then another army would have.

Sure another army would have been put in that slot if the pups were delayed, but it's not like it would have been DE or Necrons because those are both reported to be works in progress. If Pups were pushed back the slot would have most likely been filled by Nids or maybe BA.

So if that slot would've gone to Tyranids (which would then have been released 5 months earlier, quite a push back by the SW Chapter in my book), then the January slot would've been filled by another army. So yes, Chapters do push back the main army releases.

wow just wow...

* facepalm *

Airmaniac wrote:So if that slot would've gone to Tyranids (which would then have been released 5 months earlier, quite a push back by the SW Chapter in my book), then the January slot would've been filled by another army. So yes, Chapters do push back the main army releases.

So now you're assuming that all the armies are done and ready to go and it is only the whim of GW that determines what order they get released in?

If it wasn't for that greenskin codex, we would have all of them by now!

Arschbombe wrote:

Airmaniac wrote:So if that slot would've gone to Tyranids (which would then have been released 5 months earlier, quite a push back by the SW Chapter in my book), then the January slot would've been filled by another army. So yes, Chapters do push back the main army releases.

So now you're assuming that all the armies are done and ready to go and it is only the whim of GW that determines what order they get released in?

So you are assuming a Chapter specific Codex takes no time at all to develop (let alone the models for them)?

What exavtly are you getting at pilgrim?

G

Airmaniac wrote:So you are assuming a Chapter specific Codex takes no time at all to develop (let alone the models for them)?

Not zero time, no, but certainly much less time than a total model line revamp like the Dark Eldar are reportedly getting.

You're in luck though. I found a solution. Get GW to stop all that WHFB and LotR crap and they'll be able to do a 40k release every month.

True if anything pushes back releases is LotR.

Chaos Daemons need a codex more because it is stuck in an ancient ed

You are responsible for this... I hope you are thoroughly enjoying it.

G

Dal'yth Dude wrote:Fexor: I see what you are saying with regards to the Vanguard not having jump packs (but can't confirm it). Again, it comes down to a FOC and weapon/equipment upgrade issue.

Give BA a character that says something like this:

- A allows Vanguard to take jump packs for z points. Assault marines are considered troops
- B allows dreadnoughts to be taken as elite or heavy support options.

Don't forget that in 3rd edition troops weren't quite the same as they are now (IOW scoring units that hold objectives which themselves are more important than in 3rd edition).

Don't assume just because I don't want 4-6 marine codexes I don't play marines. I'll have a BA army in January or February, but that doesn't mean I think they *need* a Codex now nor that they *require* their own Codex.

If a company can only put out 2 Codexes in a year, an edition's lifespan is 4-5 years and there are more than 10 Codexes, obviously some armies will not be updated in a given edition. Just as obviously, Codex: Ultramarines will never be in that position.

BAs didn't get their own Codex until Thorpe's 3rd Ed once which so many people complained about back in the day. Even Angels of Death Codex was two marine chapters. In it was explicitly stated that BAs were Codex except for their dark secret (Death Company/Black Rage).

Dal'yth Dude:

The Vanguard I know don't come with jump packs by default, one of the big things that makes them such a bad addition, if they came with them standard they'd be pretty awesome units, but that's not the focus of this topic.

I forgot about the Dreadnought special rule also. And the Furiouso Dreadnought is just an awesome sight to behold, looks really cool to see that thing (even as impractical in 5ed as it may be) walk on the table and tear up tanks or squads with ease. And Moriar...oh man, just an awesome character.

But what exactly are referring to when you're talking about the FOC? I mean how does taking Assault Marines as troops going to imbalance the FOC or the game?

Cheers!

Making assault squads count as a scoring unit was a great idea by Jervis. Troops obviously are a lot more important in 5th edition so by making that mod to the BA FOC he subtly changed their background in such a way that fits well with the original theme. While I don't think an army composed of all jump infantry is competitive a lot of people love this type of list and play it for the pure fun of it, which is great. There is no reason why an army list has to be a pipe hitter. I think a lot of people miss this element of 40k in general.

So anyways here is one red Marine list I saw where players were trying to run a pseudo BA army with the nilla SM codex:

Chaplain/jump pack
3x assault squad/power fist(s) and/or power weapon(s)
2x Dreadnaught/drop pod
2 - 3x tactical squad

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:I somehow doubt that will happen. By the way a lot of people consider CSM a great codex. DA get no love though. Q_Q

G

I hope that the only options for the entire army are jump packs. That's it. No power weapons, nothing.

I hope that you get your BA codex and weep because the army sucks so bad and because all of the flavor of it is gone.

By the way, the CSM codex sucks when it comes to flavor, so do the DA.

So far, it sounds like the important thing is covered:

- Assault Marine Troops with varied Special Weapons and Sergeant options.

The rest, I can make do around.

Carry on.

I see someone has been drinking the lime green koolaid again.

(not directed at JohnHwangDD)

G

:edit: nevermind. I'm done wasting my time arguing with brick walls.

What's that about never arguing with idiots because they bring you down to their level...?

I think as each new ed. come out the codex thats the least compatable should get the update first.

Nids needs it, BA needs it, DH/WH need it.....people then moan about DE, that dex is still as good as was in third....I'd be happy not having to buy new units and learning sound tactics for that long...without having to rip weapons off models all the damn time.

Most of 4th ed books most still run fine in 5th but some don't.... they need fixed, DE are lucky really... is was and still is a great codex.

And yes I will be playing BA when they come out...my old BA got a repaint when the .pdf came out.

Vladsimpaler wrote::edit: nevermind. I'm done wasting my time arguing with brick walls.

What's that about never arguing with idiots because they bring you down to their level...?

troll is obvious troll.

G

Fexor:

My main point is the differences in most Marine codexes can be overcome by tweaking the Force Organization Charts (FOC) or weapon options available to certain squads. At the moment, GW seems to be using special characters to enable those differences. For example, Vulcan allows more flamers and meltas, Pedro allows some elites to be scoring etc.

You state Vanguard can't take jump packs and if they could they'd be better. My reply is let a special character allow that. The Death Company is more or less Vanguard. Allow a special character such as a particular Chaplain turn Vanguard into Death Company whether that is adding jump packs, more or less weapon options, or applying a Universal Special Rule (USR).

What makes a Baal Predator different than Predators from other chapters? The TL AC turret. So allow a special character to allow that (and overcharged engines if that is deemed to be required for a Blood Angels army). Similarly, a furioso is not much more than a dread or venerable dread with an additional dreadnought CCW. Allow that via special character or even an army wide USR. The unit stats for nearly every unit in all the various marine codexes fall into 3 stats: one for heroes, one for elites, and one for everybody else. I don't see the need for an entire codex release in order to show these small differences.

This approach could be applied to most other chapters with a dedicated codex as well. I suspect a USR would be able to handle the mixed squads of Black Templars (which, IIRC only made their appearance in 3rd edition), the Emperor's Champion is a special character, etc. The Salamanders had their own "Codex" at the time as well and they are now contained in the Codex: Space Marines book (and still quite popular from what I see here on Dakka). Space Wolves I'm willing to cut a little more slack on, but I don't see how some real thought couldn't get them in the main Codex or again a second Codex that deals with Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Black Templars.

A post upthread stated that lots of Blood Angel players tried to play 'red marines' when Codex: Space Marines came out but that they returned to their Codex after a while. Another one stated that there's lots of Blood Angels' players in a certain region in the US. To me that suggests that the Blood Angels don't *need* a codex earlier than some of the other armies. Obviously, there is a great deal of anticipation for a new Codex from BA players, but the same can be said of any army.

As for the Assault Squads being scoring, I never stated that that attribute made assault squads as troops overly powerful. I don't think that assault squads as troops are great as sitting on an objective with close combat weapons isn't exactly a winning tactic. However, making them troops does increase their value vis-a-vis other marine assault squads.

It isn't that I am against a Blood Angels Codex. I'm against a Blood Angels Codex, now. I'd also prefer to see most marine Codexes in one or at most 2 Codexes, but as I've stated many times, I know GW won't do this simply because people buy marines so much. I've outlined several means of allowing marine players to have their cake and eat it too as well as letting GW keep releasing marine models while letting non-marine players be able to look forward to a Codex release each edition.

I hope this answers your questions and response.

Best,
DD

Edit: two spelling mistakes

Yeah, it's possible that you could merge the variant SM codices and simplify the SM landscape. I suppose it would make the Chaos folks and Xeno players feel a little better because there would be only one SM book instead of five. For about 5 minutes. Then it would become "how come the SMs get a 200 page codex and ours only has 84 pages? It's not fair...."

In any case it will never come to pass because the bottom line is that there is a market for the variant chapter codices and GW can serve that market comparitively cheaply both in terms of rules development and model design.

Arschombe: I'd like to give people a little more credit than that. It certainly isn't a reason to not try it. Do you really think Space Marines wouldn't still continue to receive the most updates throughout the lifespan of an edition?

I don't know how many more times I need to say GW will never leave their 'max marine' codex model.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

G

Dal'yth Dude wrote:Fexor:

My main point is the differences in most Marine codexes can be overcome by tweaking the Force Organization Charts (FOC) or weapon options available to certain squads. At the moment, GW seems to be using special characters to enable those differences. For example, Vulcan allows more flamers and meltas, Pedro allows some elites to be scoring etc.

You state Vanguard can't take jump packs and if they could they'd be better. My reply is let a special character allow that. The Death Company is more or less Vanguard. Allow a special character such as a particular Chaplain turn Vanguard into Death Company whether that is adding jump packs, more or less weapon options, or applying a Universal Special Rule (USR).

What makes a Baal Predator different than Predators from other chapters? The TL AC turret. So allow a special character to allow that (and overcharged engines if that is deemed to be required for a Blood Angels army). Similarly, a furioso is not much more than a dread or venerable dread with an additional dreadnought CCW. Allow that via special character or even an army wide USR. The unit stats for nearly every unit in all the various marine codexes fall into 3 stats: one for heroes, one for elites, and one for everybody else. I don't see the need for an entire codex release in order to show these small differences.

This approach could be applied to most other chapters with a dedicated codex as well. I suspect a USR would be able to handle the mixed squads of Black Templars (which, IIRC only made their appearance in 3rd edition), the Emperor's Champion is a special character, etc. The Salamanders had their own "Codex" at the time as well and they are now contained in the Codex: Space Marines book (and still quite popular from what I see here on Dakka). Space Wolves I'm willing to cut a little more slack on, but I don't see how some real thought couldn't get them in the main Codex or again a second Codex that deals with Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Black Templars.

A post upthread stated that lots of Blood Angel players tried to play 'red marines' when Codex: Space Marines came out but that they returned to their Codex after a while. Another one stated that there's lots of Blood Angels' players in a certain region in the US. To me that suggests that the Blood Angels don't *need* a codex earlier than some of the other armies. Obviously, there is a great deal of anticipation for a new Codex from BA players, but the same can be said of any army.

As for the Assault Squads being scoring, I never stated that that attribute made assault squads as troops overly powerful. I don't think that assault squads as troops are great as sitting on an objective with close combat weapons isn't exactly a winning tactic. However, making them troops does increase their value vis-a-vis other marine assault squads.

It isn't that I am against a Blood Angels Codex. I'm against a Blood Angels Codex, now. I'd also prefer to see most marine Codexes in one or at most 2 Codexes, but as I've stated many times, I know GW won't do this simply because people buy marines so much. I've outlined several means of allowing marine players to have their cake and eat it too as well as letting GW keep releasing marine models while letting non-marine players be able to look forward to a Codex release each edition.

I hope this answers your questions and response.

Best,
DD

Edit: two spelling mistakes

What updates? If they do a big fat SM book at the beginning of an edition (because SMs will always be first) what would they need to do updates for? Having one big book for SMs wouldn't solve the problem if they started releasing supplements down the road. That would get us right back to where we are today with people complaining that SMs get too much love with the largest miniatures range, biggest book and supplements that no one else gets.

The biggest hurdle to doing one SM book is that it deprives GW of their periodic release cycle for their largest selling line. They need to constantly dangle the new and shiny in customers' faces to drive sales.

I can think of these updates:

- New models throughout the year
- New bitz packs released throughout the year
- New terrain kits that if not marine specific are Imperial specific
- Background articles, Black Library novels, Foregworld models
- Supplements such as Planetstrike that have more benefits for Imperial and marine players
- More Apocalypse release options
- Chapter specific releases that can be done at any time

If they made the chapter codex's into the SM codex, you would end up with a huge confusing book. Then you have to add in the time it would take to add the chapters into the C:SM, and add the time to make ALL of the chapter models to release with the book.

The time that would take would be greater than the time it would take to release one chapter at a time with its own book.

Dal'yth Dude wrote:I can think of these updates:

- New models throughout the year
- New bitz packs released throughout the year
- New terrain kits that if not marine specific are Imperial specific
- Background articles, Black Library novels, Foregworld models
- Supplements such as Planetstrike that have more benefits for Imperial and marine players
- More Apocalypse release options
- Chapter specific releases that can be done at any time

Eh, OK. I don't think that would work for GW or solve your problem. As I see it your problem is the disproportionate amount of resources consumed by the SM segment of the 40k market. They'll still be working on SM stuff instead of other stuff. I don't see it working for GW because they rely on the cool new unit with the cool new options with the cool new kit. Releasing a cool new kit a year after the cool new unit with cool new options effect wears off probably won't have the same impact as the current model.

I am going to request the mod team lock this thread as it has moved into the circular mode.

G

I can see that I am not going to convince anybody of anything so please, keep playing all those space marine armies. I'm not stopping you.

All condensing marine lists into fewer codexes does is increase the likelihood that non-marine codexes can be done before a new edition rolls out. If you play marines, you obviously don't care. If you play non-marines, you obviously want a codex in whatever is the current edition. That is the crux of the matter for me, not whether space marines get 10 new models every year.

Dal'yth Dude wrote:
All condensing marine lists into fewer codexes does is increase the likelihood that non-marine codexes can be done before a new edition rolls out. If you play marines, you obviously don't care. If you play non-marines, you obviously want a codex in whatever is the current edition.

And if a person plays both? You present this like it's a zero-sum game; that if you play marines you can't play anything else or care about any other armies.

Dal'yth Dude wrote:Fexor:

My main point is the differences in most Marine codexes can be overcome by tweaking the Force Organization Charts (FOC) or weapon options available to certain squads. At the moment, GW seems to be using special characters to enable those differences. For example, Vulcan allows more flamers and meltas, Pedro allows some elites to be scoring etc.

You state Vanguard can't take jump packs and if they could they'd be better. My reply is let a special character allow that. The Death Company is more or less Vanguard. Allow a special character such as a particular Chaplain turn Vanguard into Death Company whether that is adding jump packs, more or less weapon options, or applying a Universal Special Rule (USR).

What makes a Baal Predator different than Predators from other chapters? The TL AC turret. So allow a special character to allow that (and overcharged engines if that is deemed to be required for a Blood Angels army). Similarly, a furioso is not much more than a dread or venerable dread with an additional dreadnought CCW. Allow that via special character or even an army wide USR. The unit stats for nearly every unit in all the various marine codexes fall into 3 stats: one for heroes, one for elites, and one for everybody else. I don't see the need for an entire codex release in order to show these small differences.

This approach could be applied to most other chapters with a dedicated codex as well. I suspect a USR would be able to handle the mixed squads of Black Templars (which, IIRC only made their appearance in 3rd edition), the Emperor's Champion is a special character, etc. The Salamanders had their own "Codex" at the time as well and they are now contained in the Codex: Space Marines book (and still quite popular from what I see here on Dakka). Space Wolves I'm willing to cut a little more slack on, but I don't see how some real thought couldn't get them in the main Codex or again a second Codex that deals with Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Black Templars.

A post upthread stated that lots of Blood Angel players tried to play 'red marines' when Codex: Space Marines came out but that they returned to their Codex after a while. Another one stated that there's lots of Blood Angels' players in a certain region in the US. To me that suggests that the Blood Angels don't *need* a codex earlier than some of the other armies. Obviously, there is a great deal of anticipation for a new Codex from BA players, but the same can be said of any army.

As for the Assault Squads being scoring, I never stated that that attribute made assault squads as troops overly powerful. I don't think that assault squads as troops are great as sitting on an objective with close combat weapons isn't exactly a winning tactic. However, making them troops does increase their value vis-a-vis other marine assault squads.

It isn't that I am against a Blood Angels Codex. I'm against a Blood Angels Codex, now. I'd also prefer to see most marine Codexes in one or at most 2 Codexes, but as I've stated many times, I know GW won't do this simply because people buy marines so much. I've outlined several means of allowing marine players to have their cake and eat it too as well as letting GW keep releasing marine models while letting non-marine players be able to look forward to a Codex release each edition.

I hope this answers your questions and response.

Best,
DD

Edit: two spelling mistakes

@Dal'yth Dude:
Thanks for the clarification on what you were meaning.

@Thread Post:
Now I play both Blood Angels and Tyranids, so honestly I'm getting a double whammy of fun in the coming months for codex's since they're both coming out. (Yay for me!) erhm... Anyways, I understand the desire from both sides to see codexs come out for each race in the game for the current edition. Being a Space Marine player, I actually can admit that putting Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Black Templars into one codex seperated by sections for each Chapter would be ok with me honestly. It doesn't really matter to me. And if they priced it the same or $10 bucks cheaper than the Vanilla C:SM so be it, I'd buy it. I like my Blood Angels, I like that they're getting a new Codex, I understand the frustration of Xeno players and looking at it from their end. But at the same time, why get so upset at players that are playing Blood Angels? I mean it's not our fault that GW's choosing this release selection.

I mean whether its their personal choice, or the sales plan, or their whatever option, how is that the players fault for liking it? I've seen quite a few posts on here that are more directed at the players than the Codex. I mean as a community of gamers and enthusiasts why not be happy for our fellow members for getting something for their army? Why all the anomosity towards the player just because he's happy about his particular Army getting a codex? And so far with each release of the codex's done this far after 5th Edition's release there have been threads like this that just plunge into the abyss of anger and hostility towards fellow board members. Why? Can we not share an opinion whether it be with or against that doesn't meet with such a hostile response that borders on personal jabs and insults? I'm not saying you have to like everyone on here, far from it, I'm saying why can't we maintain a level of mutual respect when we don't agree. And if you're going to disagree have reasons to back up your thoughts, saying someones stupid or a troll really doesn't help your point, it usually just makes you look foolish and childish because you're not making a point or validating anything.

*Steps down from podium*

Anyways, back to the discussion at hand, and response to Dal'yth Dude.

I stated that Vanguard don't come with jump packs as part of their default load out, you can give the squad jump packs at an increased points cost, which to be honest as assault troops you'd think they would come with them as a standard, but they don't. The Veteran Assault marines do and that's a good points difference. (I don't remember the exact points cost of Vet. Assault Squad and I'm at work so I can't check.) And if the points cost for a Vet. Assualt Squad goes down then they'll be better than a Vanguard squad. I'm sure their weapon loadouts won't be as open as the Vanguards, otherwise that would make the Vanguards useless and you'd see Blood Angel armies popping up all over the place.

The USR for characters is a good idea, but really blocks the Army as a whole, as they have quite a few special rules and if you tried tacking them on to a few main guys, that could make them seem Over Powered to other HQ/Specail Characters selectable by other Armies. Not to mention that would mean you wouldn't see much variaty in play style/character choice, as everyones going to take the guys that give the special rules. And with about, what ...4-5(?) special characters for the Blood Angels to choose from, how do you give all the special rules to them to apply to the army without blanketing each guy with every Special Rule? Just playing devils advocate here.



As for the other stuff, *shrug* timing isn't anything we the players can control, is it unfair to other codex's that are equally as old or in need of a re-vamp, yep sure is. Can we change it, nope we can't. We'll just have to wait.


Cheers!


ps. I don't need flaming for pointing out common civility towards others in a forum either. Have a great day.

Anarchyman99 wrote:I think as each new ed. come out the codex thats the least compatable should get the update first.

Then we'll see Necrons updated in short order?

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Anarchyman99 wrote:I think as each new ed. come out the codex thats the least compatable should get the update first.

Then we'll see Necrons updated in short order?

As well they should anything.....under/over-powered should get updated.....as well as anything unfluffy but that's much harder to please people with. GW is a company and they need to push the product and the lazy thing to do it not to aggressively market the other great armies but to pulg away with what they know sells with out much marketing......SPACE MARINES.......

@A99: GW has a specific product strategy for 40k. The problem for you is that it's not what you want it to be.

GW pushes Space Marines, with the specific notion that players will go from vanilla SM to variant SM (including CSM), eventually to non-SM.

It's not lazy, it's smart, and it's why 40k continues to sell well for them.

If you don't like it, you can vote with your feet, but don't think you can change GW.

I think what JohnHwangDD is trying to say, is that if you look at the armies individually, and look at how difficult they are to play well. You'll notice Space Marines and Orks are at the easier side of the spectrum, compared to say, Eldar, Tyranids, Tau, etc. Every squad the Space Marines can take is very universal and do most tasks well. They're the kings of being "Jack's of All Trades, Master's of None", they do all jobs well, but don't excell at any one task. Which allows them to be the most flexible army in the game. It's also why they're the most popular, almost anyone can pick them up and do decently with them. Because all their squads have decent saves, moderate WS and BS and can hold their own fairly well. Which is why many buy them as their first army, to learn the rules with an army that has a good chance of performing well on the table. (Provided you don't have horrid luck with rolling dice.)

Now start looking at the other races, you'll notice not all their squads can do well at every task, ie. Tau Fire Warriors CC abilities, LOL. I mean compare the abilities of just the troops units from SM to Tyranids, or SM to Tau, or SM to IG, notice how much better the SM Tactical Squad will stand up to those Troops in an one-on-one engagement, also look at how well they'll last in CC with the same squads. I do know that Nid's do well in CC, but my point is the Space Marines will put a hurt on that Guant squad even if they don't survive through the CC itself.

Anyways, most of their sales are driven by the ease of the the SM/Ork playstyle (ie. AoBR boxed set is a prime example of this), and I know someone said it before in this thread on one of the pages, what is the first thing that comes to mind when you think Warhammer 40k, its a Space Marine 99% of the time. What's the most iconic image GW has, a Space Marine.

I'm not saying the other races don't deserve their models/codex/fluff updated, just demonstrating a possible thought process that is most likely for the GW company. And we can't forget that they're a company and not an enthusiast like ourselves, now I'm sure many who work there love the game and play as much, if not more than most of us, but the main goal for a company is to make money, and then appease everyone.

Just my 2 cents.


Cheers!

Back to the real topic.

I think the upgrades and price correction along with the updating of wargear will go a long way in making the BA fun again to play. If it is put in line with C:SM then we're all set.

Maybe some new psychic powers would be nice too, so we have some options rather than fly and bash.

I'm sure GW has learned a lot since the DA Codex and the WD BA Codex, so I'd expect a fair chunk of options.

And "key" Special Characters, to boot.

But as long as the core units have points costs corrected, and the DC "adder" is fair, I think things will turn out OK.

I hope they keep the Assault troops as a troop choice because I have way to many jump pack Assault troops to use as fast attack or elites (about 90)!

Capt. Von Reaper wrote:I hope they keep the Assault troops as a troop choice because I have way to many jump pack Assault troops to use as fast attack or elites (about 90)!

Wow, that's amazing amount of assault troops, jeeze.

Cheers!

And my 3 Furioso Dreadnoughts have drop pods! Terminators deepstrike! The only thing I have on the board when I start is my Ball PreditorsX2 because the death Co. has jump packs as well! I make it rain Blood Angels!!!!

Wow, you use Dante and Lemartes for your Special Characters? Pretty much keep everything off the table till turn 1 or 2.

Cheers!

If you're a JP-happy guy, Lemartes (not necessarily his exact model) is mandatory!

I heard a rumor The new bugz & BA will be the most powerful armies introduced to 5th. I am excited about it.

G

Ok, so I was looking over the FAQ/PDF Codex on the GW website and I had to correct a little personal error.

Vet. Assault Squads are not Troops, they're Elite choices. Only normal Assault Squads can be taken as troops. My bad.

So, the whole thing about the Vet. Assault Squads not getting the same weapon loadouts is invalid, since they won't be scoring units anyways. They'll probably be just like Vanguard squads. They're also the same price as a Vanguard squad would be with Jump Packs....so essentially they're the same at the moment. I don't think we'll see them change to much from the PDF Codex, sad to say. Otherwise, they'd be a much better version of the Vanguards.


Cheers!

I, for one, can't wait for C: BA, having an assault horde on jump-packs would be amazing.

I heard a rumor the other day, that the Blood Angels will be in a joint Codex with the Dark Angels. This may just be your usual GW talk from a red shirt or loose lipped black shirt or it may be true. The rumor also holds that the Fallen will be at the very least mentioned in the book the employee called the Codex "Angels of Death"

I'm not holding my breath on it, but it would be cool to see the BA and DA be in one book.

I think people are going with this rumor because both armies have the word 'Angel' in their name in addition to being space marines.

Thinking like GW: Why make one codex, when I can make two and get twice the money?

Actually, I believe GW has previously had an "Angels of Death" codex with both chapters in it.

(Not that I think they're particularly likely to do it again.)

They did previously have an "Angels of Death" codex, and like I stated I'm not gonna hold my breath over the issue.

But why is it so easy to believe that they are going to make an Inquisition Codex with the Ordo Xenos, Malleus and Hereticus. Yet people can't believe that they'd put the BA and DA in one book?

Try and think of it from a product perspective. The only real thing they can do for DA at this point involving product is making multi-part plastic Deathwing. Everything else is already in place and Looks quite frankly amazing. The DA chapter upgrade box is amazing, and honestly cannot be improved upon. The ravenwing squad is already multi-part plastic. As well as the land speeder. So honestly at this point i cannot think of any "new" product for DA the stack the shelves with and sell in bulk.

The same CANNOT be true for BA however.
I can see a possible:
New Baal Pred model
New Death Company models
Plastic BA upgrade set
Plastic BA Honor guard

I'd assume a plastic boxed set like this:
5 BA Honor Guard w/
1 DC bitz set
1 Rhino / Razorback / Pod "flat" bitz set
+ *lots* of extra upgrade bitz for Tac / Dev / Assault

That way, GW sells 5 dedicated BA Honor Guard, similar to 5 DA Veterans / 10 SW Pack, but takes care of all of the secondary bitz at the same time.

It also might be important to note that a BA codex release in march seems unlikely now as we have received an e-mail discussing the new mission book in march.

Well, I'm confident that the new codex will be fine
if written by Kelly or Cruddace, just as long as its non-jervisified.

Personally I'm looking forward to the Blood Angels to see what challenges I face!

It would be so AWESOME if Phil writes the codex. Seeing that supposedly Cruddace has written the new bug codex I doubt he will pin the new BA one as well. Hopefully it won't be Matt Ward...

* shudders *

G

Green Blow Fly wrote: Hopefully it won't be Matt Ward...

They would never give it to him. He's Mr. Ultramarine.

My fingers are crossed and I have my lucky rabbit's foot. Maybe Alessio has taken some well deserved time off from writing the new FAQs?

G