http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1490603&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

Thank the lord for plastic gargoyles instead of metal ones - I swear I flew in a fit of apoplectic rage trying to glue my last metal ones together

Oh, on the GW site, the Broodlord and Warriors have moved to the Troops slot, and Zoanthropes to the Elite slot!

Take that, 'Genestealers are going elite' rumour!

OSHI-

Wow, those models are simply amazing. Love the Mawloc/Trygon and the Pyrovore is for sure finding it's way into my army.

My wallet is going to hate january :(

$50 for a Trygon! So cool! And sweet pics of the Pyrovore...if only the Biovores looked that Hot.

It still does not categorically state in the Trygon/Mawloc entry whether or not it is in the Codex. It is an absolutely brutal model, though. I also like the Pyrovore and Hive Guard now that I've seen them. I really should not have gotten out of bed this morning... Damn Boycott... Oh well.

warpcrafter wrote:It still does not categorically state in the Trygon/Mawloc entry whether or not it is in the Codex. It is an absolutely brutal model, though. I also like the Pyrovore and Hive Guard now that I've seen them. I really should not have gotten out of bed this morning... Damn Boycott... Oh well.

Sources that seem reliable state that it is in as a Monstrous Creature. And heck, just think about it; why would they create a Mawloc model if there weren't even going to be rules for it?

Not bad, the pyrovore looks better than I was expecting...kinda like the old tyrant guard but with a big gun on its back. It all looks good, not like "omfg that's awesome" but all the new models fit in well with the rest of the range.

I still don't understand why the new raveners are almost $45 for 3 fething models. 3 plastic models. Maybe they should just start making the things out of gold, it might be cheaper by the look of things.

Redemption wrote:

warpcrafter wrote:It still does not categorically state in the Trygon/Mawloc entry whether or not it is in the Codex. It is an absolutely brutal model, though. I also like the Pyrovore and Hive Guard now that I've seen them. I really should not have gotten out of bed this morning... Damn Boycott... Oh well.

Sources that seem reliable state that it is in as a Monstrous Creature. And heck, just think about it; why would they create a Mawloc model if there weren't even going to be rules for it?

Rules, most certainly, but regular or apocalypse? I am reasonably certain it is in the codex, because they like to tart up apoc releases as being such, and they haven't done much (Or anything?) for it since planet strike came out.

can't even get to the page, must be a bazillion other kids trying to see the pics. can anyone post some new pics here?

HQ: Tyrant & Guard
Elite: Pyrovore, Hive Guard, Lictor, Venomthrope, Zoanthrope
Troops: Warriors, Hormaguants, Termagant, Genestealers, Broodlord, Rippers
Fast: Raveners, Gargoyle, Red Terror
Heavy: Trygon/Mawloc, Carnifex, Biovore, Old One Eye

So yeah, it's official as far as Trygon being in codex (even though it's been more or less confirmed on Warseer for past 2-3 weeks).

Warseer has all the sprue pics, too.

Beautiful. Now I need the rules!

Win! only p0ics i got before website crashed

Necros wrote:can't even get to the page, must be a bazillion other kids trying to see the pics. can anyone post some new pics here?

as you command...

and the rest

Intersting. By the looks of it, that hive guard gun is a spike rifle.

Mekboy wrote:Intersting. By the looks of it, that hive guard gun is a spike rifle.

Impaler Cannon, actually. Can be fired without line of sight.

Christmas just got SWEET!

all the models look great... except the new tyrant shooty guard... weak sauce.

******

I wonder how good those wings will look on warriors?

Sweetness. Gonna have to invest in a lot of greenstuff for alien heads Will definitely add some gargoyles finally, definitely a pyrovore or 3, and a Mawloc.. since I already did a trygon conversion out of a fex model. But then, I guess I could always run 2 of em....

Raveners look nice too but I already have 6 of the original style. Not sure about the SuperSquid one...

The Hive Guard are charged with protecting Tyranid structures and are capable of unleashing salvo after salvo of intense firepower. Essentially gun-beasts, they are heavily armoured and have a body designed to be a stable firing platform for the massive impaler cannon bonded to their forelimbs. Physically linked to the shard-beasts that comprise the ammunition to their cannons, Hive guard can target enemies with unerring accuracy - even those who they cannot see.

HOLY FETHING GAK.

I take it that's a positive HFG Brook?

I have just one word to say...AWESOME!!!!

Excellent wings on the plastic Gargoyles. I will definitely be getting a box of them just to use the wings on some flying warriors. I'm such a hypocrite.

Fateweaver wrote:I take it that's a positive HFG Brook?

feth yes!

I've just seen the pricetag for the Trygon. It costs the same as a Hellhound, I am so getting one now.

Yeah, the Trygon price is fething nice. Isn't the FW one like 70 GBP or something?

New Trygons be bitchin

FW's Trygon is £76.35

Damn, I'm not a Nid player but I really want me one of those to mess around with.

Fateweaver wrote:Yeah, the Trygon price is fething nice. Isn't the FW one like 70 GBP or something?

76.85 GBP, to be exact.

And oddly enough, it's not letting me add a FW one to shopping cart. Very intriguing, must be getting ready to stop the molds like they did with Piranhas.

I like the fact the Hive guard lacks eyes - but the impaler cannon doesn't

Better yet is 20% off that from Neal. $39.60 before shipping. $5.95 shipping Priority mail. $45.55 from the Warstore and delivery in 2-3 days (takes 4 for me but I usually order after 5 so probably explains it as orders won't go out till the next day).

I'm unbelievably angry they have made the broodlord and warriors troops and I'm after buying one of each as HQ choices...

Trygon looks awesome (although very 'safe' in that it's so similar to the FW Resin one), and Mawloc looks cool too. My concern is that changing the Trygon from Apoc-only to a Codex unit will have a big impact on the statline. If it does, 'Nid forces in Apoc might suffer because of this.

Raveners are really nice, but I REALLY don't like Hive Guard/Venomthrope/Pyrovore models.

@Fateweaver: Yes, FW Trygon is around £76.

What's with the 4 different Ravenor bodies? ... and the "burrowing" marker bit? can they Reverse-Deep Strike?

Tyranid Horde wrote:I'm unbelievably angry they have made the broodlord and warriors troops and I'm after buying one of each as HQ choices...

Broodlords are upgrades to Genestealer units(who are troops).

So don't you worry, you can get more

Those nids, esspecially the Trygon have made me want to collect the xenos criiters again.

According to IA 4 the Trygon never really was Apocalypse only.

Wow, finally plastic Gargoyles. 'Bout time. As well as separated Hormagant/Termagant boxes.

Pyrovore is basically what I wished the biovore had looked like for years.

Venomthrope is likely to be pretty prone to tipping over.

If i still played Nids, I'd be pretty excited overall.

I notice that there are no biomorphs in the Hormagaunt package anymore. Guess that means no (even slight) variations in strength, etc. anymore, unless they've done something very stupid with bits.

There's still adrenals and toxin sacs with the termagants, though.

skipmcne wrote:What's with the 4 different Ravenor bodies? ... and the "burrowing" marker bit? can they Reverse-Deep Strike?

Thorax weapons and maybe extended carapace too. I'm betting the base is just a decorative base.

I'm in the minority, but I'm so-so on the Pyrovore. It just looks odd to me. It probably works out, since if it's just a flamer template platform as rumored, I doubt I'll be fielding them.

The Mawloc is very creepy. Since I already have a FW Trygon, GW will probably be sneaky and make the Mawloc the superior choice.

Me likey. Trygon, Raveners, Biovore, and Gargoyles lookin' good in plastic. Looking forward to checking out the accompanying rules.

I am going to have to collect a 'secret army' that will be well-hidden from wifey.

Time to try out that GW spraygun.

- Blackbone

I am wondering if there is another HQ choice that we have't heard about yet since there wont be a model released for it in the first wave. Pure speculation on my part, but every release so far has had a few "new" units in the book that don't have a model, so why stop the trend with the nids? Just seems odd that the only HQ choice would be a tyrant.

I don't play nids but I recognise those models are COOOOOL!

admittedly I'm not too keen on the hive guard (or their fluff) or the venomthrope...

either way they are some really nice looking new models, congrats Tyranid Players!


However, the Ravener's are a bit pricey! three PLASTIC models for over £25!

Neith wrote:Trygon looks awesome (although very 'safe' in that it's so similar to the FW Resin one), and Mawloc looks cool too. My concern is that changing the Trygon from Apoc-only to a Codex unit will have a big impact on the statline. If it does, 'Nid forces in Apoc might suffer because of this.

Raveners are really nice, but I REALLY don't like Hive Guard/Venomthrope/Pyrovore models.

@Fateweaver: Yes, FW Trygon is around £76.

Did you know that the Valk can be used as a flier or a skimmer in Apoc games but only as a skimmer in 40k games? There are two sets of rules for it, Codex and Apoc, and you can use whatever rules you want to for Apoc as long as they are the current Apoc rules. If this could somehow work for the Trygon then Tyranid players would be set. To bad you said it couldn't. /friendly joke

Raveners look almost exactly like their metal ones but the metal ones looked good and the plastic ones made them look better. Hive Guard is the Tyrant Guard with a gun. I like him because I like the old ones. Venomthrope looks SOOOOOO much better with a good picture and if you say the Pyrovore is ugly then you're the kind of person who like the "Queen" Tyrant from the last edition. And I have had several rants on how ugly that model is compared to the current one and even the one before it.

Gargoyals look fan-fething-tastic.

@ GeeDub - These are some fething sweet bugs man

My chaos lord can't wait to get him some hive guard buddies with impaler cannons ...

But: Mawloc WTF??

- Salvage

Wow I'm really impressed with these kits. Congrats to all Nids players!

E: yay 100!

Kwosge wrote:
Did you know that the Valk can be used as a flier or a skimmer in Apoc games but only as a skimmer in 40k games? There are two sets of rules for it, Codex and Apoc, and you can use whatever rules you want to for Apoc as long as they are the current Apoc rules. If this could someone work for the Trygon then Tyranid players would be set. To bad you said it couldn't. /friendly joke

Never collected IG, so I had no idea about the Valk. I was half expecting FW to rename their Trygon to something like 'Greater Trygon', to justify the statline, but seeing as there's multiple rule sets for the Valk, the same could apply here. Thanks for the insight (beginning to think I'm the only person ever to not collect IG at some point).

One thing that does interest me is Warriors being moved to Troops. If I had to guess, I'd say it was done to accommodate the new units (have you seen how many Elites choices 'Nid players have now?), but it's certainly a change I wasn't expecting to see.

Neith wrote:

Kwosge wrote:
Did you know that the Valk can be used as a flier or a skimmer in Apoc games but only as a skimmer in 40k games? There are two sets of rules for it, Codex and Apoc, and you can use whatever rules you want to for Apoc as long as they are the current Apoc rules. If this could someone work for the Trygon then Tyranid players would be set. To bad you said it couldn't. /friendly joke

Never collected IG, so I had no idea about the Valk. I was half expecting FW to rename their Trygon to something like 'Greater Trygon', to justify the statline, but seeing as there's multiple rule sets for the Valk, the same could apply here. Thanks for the insight (beginning to think I'm the only person ever to not collect IG at some point).

One thing that does interest me is Warriors being moved to Troops. If I had to guess, I'd say it was done to accommodate the new units (have you seen how many Elites choices 'Nid players have now?), but it's certainly a change I wasn't expecting to see.

I never collected them either but I just know about their rules. The Mawloc is screwed though. It has to use 40k rules.

I'm not a fan of the solo-HQ choice either but people have been saying that there can be Alpha variants on some models so expect a secondary FOC for <1000 or 1500 point games.

Wow. That Pyrovore is amazing. I want a dozen, even if just for an Apocalypse gun line.

Love the Raveners, and $45 is a perfectly fine price for them. That is still cheaper by 25% than current. Means I can also get the metals on sale at the FLGS once the plastic kit comes out.

Trygon is awesome, Mawloc looks pretty silly. I bet one or the other lets you take Raveners as Troop choices.

Hive Guard are VERY neat, and confirms we get at LEAST one new gun. Maybe it can penetrate vehicles...

I can't believe these new models actually happened. Supposedly Carnis are getting buffed again.

gorgon wrote:
I'm betting the base is just a decorative base.

I thought so at first as well; but look closely at the base, you see the the END of the tail, not the bit that would join with a lower-torso.. Additionally if it was decorative, why not show it off with the 3-up unit picture?

Regular, and EC, I'll buy but there's one with an "eye" in the chest, and one with weird gribbly bits on the sides (spine banks?)

gorgon wrote:
The Mawloc is very creepy. Since I already have a FW Trygon, GW will probably be sneaky and make the Mawloc the superior choice.

No doubt.

Mattlov wrote:Wow. That Pyrovore is amazing. I want a dozen, even if just for an Apocalypse gun line.
Hive Guard are VERY neat, and confirms we get at LEAST one new gun. Maybe it can penetrate vehicles...

Two, the Pyrovore counts as a new gun. Go Go AP3 S5 flame template. That's the state line. I just made it up but that's what it's going to be. Why? Because only Tyranids would get an anti-hord weapon with a stat line to take down a non-hord army.

Sidstyler wrote:I still don't understand why the new raveners are almost $45 for 3 [DELETED EXPLETIVE] models. 3 plastic models. Maybe they should just start making the things out of gold, it might be cheaper by the look of things.

It is $45 dollars for the same reason Terminators are pricey, its two sprues in a singel box that GW expects a lower sales volume on.

Asuming a ravener is similar in volume to a lictor, it would cost more than $4800 if cast in solid 24karat gold. (Lictor 2-3oz of pewter or 7-11.5 cubic centimeters, which equals 150g of gold, price of gold about $30+/g).

Kwosge wrote:

Mattlov wrote:Wow. That Pyrovore is amazing. I want a dozen, even if just for an Apocalypse gun line.
Hive Guard are VERY neat, and confirms we get at LEAST one new gun. Maybe it can penetrate vehicles...

Two, the Pyrovore counts as a new gun. Go Go AP3 S5 flame template. That's the state line. I just made it up but that's what it's going to be. Why? Because only Tyranids would get an anti-hord weapon with a stat line to take down a non-hord army.

The Trygon/Mawloc base is decorative. It's on an oval base like the Valk and not a round base like everything else in 40k. It says that on the GW website. Have fun making Prone Trygons that get cover saves from 5 point Gaunts.

I can tell you right now I am getting two Trygon's just to model up against my DW kill teams.

This happens right after I decide to focus on Deathwing and actually finish (that means paint) an army.

Oh, well. Nids were always my guilty pleasure anyway.

Gotta spend the gift card my wife gave me for my second birthday on something right

Broodlord is Troops? Seems odd.

Fantastic minis though. Not looking forward to facing these bad ass bugs anytime soon...

I knew I started Tau too soon. Great stuff and I'm glad GW released the info somewhat early.

Savnock wrote:I notice that there are no biomorphs in the Hormagaunt package anymore. Guess that means no (even slight) variations in strength, etc. anymore, unless they've done something very stupid with bits.

One rumor is the biomorph sprue will now be a direct order item.

Kwosge wrote:The Trygon/Mawloc base is decorative. It's on an oval base like the Valk and not a round base like everything else in 40k. It says that on the GW website. Have fun making Prone Trygons that get cover saves from 5 point Gaunts.

Anybody tries that at my FLGS, they'll suffer such a horrible fate that they'll still be screaming well into their next incarnation.

By the way, if the Pyrovore comes as 1-3 per slot, I may just crap myself with joy.

I love the new minis, but my god. Fifteen quid for 12 gaunts?

Neith wrote:
Raveners are really nice, but I REALLY don't like Hive Guard/Venomthrope/Pyrovore models.

@Fateweaver: Yes, FW Trygon is around £76.

You don't like the Pyrovore model???? Dude the biovore looks like a mutant billy joel with a schlong on his back and nuts on his chest! The pyrovore is a huge step up, so much more refined and in line with the tyranid design lol. Overall better proportions and legibility in the sculpt...

That's like saying Megan Fox isn't hot.... she may not be your style, but you have to admit, its still hot!

skipmcne wrote:I thought so at first as well; but look closely at the base, you see the the END of the tail, not the bit that would join with a lower-torso.. Additionally if it was decorative, why not show it off with the 3-up unit picture?

I think you need to look again!

^^^
I think he was looking at the Ravener sprue and showed up right after the Trygon sprue and got confused. But yea, Raveners get some sort of burrow marker that I'm just going to call a 4th Ravener. He can't shoot a gun but he has ST and Rending.

warpcrafter wrote:

Anybody tries that at my FLGS, they'll suffer such a horrible fate that they'll still be screaming well into their next incarnation.

I call your bluff. Where is said store?

It's always a good thing to have FW models make their way over to plastic GW kits, but I'm a little disappointed that the Trygon is in the codex. I was hoping for Apoc. only just because I fear how it might change the mechanics of 40k. I guess only time will tell how things will pan out.

The pyrovore isn't really any better than the old biovore I think. It still looks... veiny AND it still has balls on its chest.

other than that, the model range is mostly made of win.

oni wrote:It's always a good thing to have FW models make their way over to plastic GW kits, but I'm a little disappointed that the Trygon is in the codex. I was hoping for Apoc. only just because I fear how it might change the mechanics of 40k. I guess only time will tell how things will pan out.

Change the mechanics how exactly? It's just a deep striking Monstrous Creature, even the current edition 'Nids have access to those. Not to mention Daemons.

cmon dude, fair enough on the balls, but at least the head doesnt look like a wedge of melted cheddar anymore right? and the arms are much more refined and in-line as well, plus it looks to be in a bit better shape than that tubby biovore lol

Ketara wrote:I love the new minis, but my god. Fifteen quid for 12 gaunts?

Last time they were about 21 quid for 16 gaunts, in an 8 Termi/8 Hormi split, and people complained about having useless models. Or, 1.3 quid/gaunt.

Now they are 15 quid for 12 gaunts. The 12 gaunts you want, no matter what. AND they are 1.25 quid/gaunt.

THEY ARE NOW CHEAPER!

The Pyrovore is about the only model in the bunch I can't grow onto. The pose and overall model don't really some to go together that well too me. Plus it's one of those models that's just screaming to be turned into the subject of horrible, horrible fiction that horrible people like to write.

Notice that the full model range listing now shows what categories the models fall into in the Codex, new and old alike. Also notice that the Red Terror and Old One Eye are still listed.

I'm not sure the Pyrovore concept holds together as well as it might. It looks like a creature that's been grafted together rather than one that's evolved that way.

The sculpting quality is very good, mind you.

GW is going to sell a whole pile of those wing sprues to non-nid converters, they'll be great for any model requiring bat/reptile style wings.

I like the pyrovore (except that it's metal) - I just wish the other gunbeasts looked something like that. I'm now trying to work out how to convert one from a warrior and a pile of greenstuff (I may be dreaming) and also how to convert a carnifex to have a pose something like that.

Clang wrote:GW is going to sell a whole pile of those wing sprues to non-nid converters, they'll be great for any model requiring bat/reptile style wings.

Too bad GW doesn't sell separate sprues much anymore.

They'll just have to settle with selling us the entire set just so we can get the wings.

Looks like no major surprises here. The venomthrope is still awkward, the trygon is solid. I'm all right with the pyrovore looking heinously disturbing, aliens should look weird and creepy sometimes. Kinda makes me want to start a new army, really.

Of Daemons.

GW is going to sell a whole pile of those wing sprues to non-nid converters, they'll be great for any model requiring bat/reptile style wings.

This occurred to me as well. Great for Daemon Prince, Chaos Lord and other Chaos conversions, Raptors, etc. Cool for Vampire Counts too.

Blue Orphen wrote:

Ketara wrote:I love the new minis, but my god. Fifteen quid for 12 gaunts?

Last time they were about 21 quid for 16 gaunts, in an 8 Termi/8 Hormi split, and people complained about having useless models. Or, 1.3 quid/gaunt.

Now they are 15 quid for 12 gaunts. The 12 gaunts you want, no matter what. AND they are 1.25 quid/gaunt.

THEY ARE NOW CHEAPER!

Likely because GW pulled the biomorph sprue. So yes its cheaper if you don't want any biomorphs.

So the Pyrovore sucked up all the cool concept art for the biovore. Can't wait to see what the guys at warpshadow do with all that new stuff. Oh and what Navarro does . Gargoyl wings will be indeed the top seller for conversions of all kinds. Well at least two boxes I'll buy.

Venomthrope - Weird. Still not sold.
Trygon - Awsome.
Mawloc - It's a different head. No sold.
Raveners - Ok I guess.
Gargoyles - Getting 3 boxes at least.
Pyrovore - Awesome.
Hive Guard - Double awesome.

So my 'Nid army will be expanding.

This:



Became this:




GW actually improved the kit and it costs half the price. GW has done something right!

Mahu wrote:GW has done something right!

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain why this is impossible and you are wrong.

BTW, the Hive Guard's impaler guns are apparently 2 shots at S8. Not bad...I might be spamming those boys.

@ Mahu, I'll give you that the head and body look better, but the FW tail is infinitely better than the GW version(and looks like it wouldn't break off the first time it attempted to use the tail).

One thing no one has mentioned is that in the description of the Pyrovore is that it is on a 60mm base!
It looks like its going to be much bigger than the biovore.

The FW talons actually look like they might reach the ground, too.

I like the FW model's lack of eyes. But feth that, plastic is superior to FW's resin when it comes to durability and casting quality.

BrookM wrote:I like the FW model's lack of eyes.

The FW version has eyes. They're tiny, but they're there.

gorgon wrote:BTW, the Hive Guard's impaler guns are apparently 2 shots at S8. Not bad...I might be spamming those boys.

I'm interested to hear about the indirect firing and how that works since, "Hive guard can target enemies with unerring accuracy - even those who they cannot see" per the GW store description.

WOW! I was not digging the way things were going but this is just... a hive queen wet dream... really these spawns are orgasmic!

So much to explore, so many cool kits and sprues... this is what BUGS are all about! Im so freaking in love with these that I'm speechless

Buglands bio vats are boiling!

BramGaunt on Warseer (whose rumors seem to have been dead on) said they don't need LOS. But some confirmation would be nice, for sure.

I dunno...out of everything, HG have sparked my interest the most. And I think VT -- although potentially flawed -- may have some interesting uses.

The hive guard has the soul edge, and that trygon is like a dream come true.

Can anyone explain to me why the trygon and mawloc wear cricket boxes?

NAVARRO wrote:WOW! I was not digging the way things were going but this is just... a hive queen wet dream... really these spawns are orgasmic!

So much to explore, so many cool kits and sprues... this is what BUGS are all about! Im so freaking in love with these that I'm speechless

Buglands bio vats are boiling!

And you out there say we Furs are odd

You furries are odd...LOL

lord_blackfang wrote:

skipmcne wrote:I thought so at first as well; but look closely at the base, you see the the END of the tail, not the bit that would join with a lower-torso.. Additionally if it was decorative, why not show it off with the 3-up unit picture?

I think you need to look again!

Agree, pyrovore is HOT. no pun intended.

Downside of the new Tyranid codex...

Warriors as Troops. Feth me sideways, my Guard need more heavy weapons.

Upside?
Now I've got a reason to build and paint my Emperor's Fist Tank Company.

OMG that Pyrovore is awesome! only thirty quid for a trygon! just awesome.

Sweet release. Gotta love the pyrovore.
Actually, you gotta love em all!

Are Warriors unlimited Troops, or only one, or what? Seems like a rather odd change if you can have an entire army of em.

For figs... I just don't like the Hive Guard. The concept is cool, but I don't like how they altered the current Tyrant Guard fig, which I do like, to it's new role.

Anyone notice they changed the Rending Claws for the Raveners? Look more like the Genestealer claws now instead of big hands.

Aduro wrote:Anyone notice they changed the Rending Claws for the Raveners? Look more like the Genestealer claws now instead of big hands.

Changed?

Kanluwen wrote:

Tyranid Horde wrote:I'm unbelievably angry they have made the broodlord and warriors troops and I'm after buying one of each as HQ choices...

Broodlords are upgrades to Genestealer units(who are troops).

So don't you worry, you can get more

I spent all my pocket money I saved so no more nids for me for a couple of months...Unless I get a Hive Tyrant for Christmas.

kirsanth wrote:

Aduro wrote:Anyone notice they changed the Rending Claws for the Raveners? Look more like the Genestealer claws now instead of big hands.

Changed?

I should mention I, nor anyone at my FLGS, got the metal Raveners. I'm just looking at plastic and thinking of the only other plastic Rending Claws I know, the ones for Warriors. If the metal ones have the same claws as these, I guess it was an older change from hands to claws.

Aduro wrote:Are Warriors unlimited Troops, or only one, or what? Seems like a rather odd change if you can have an entire army of em.

"How can we sell more warrior kits?"

Not too odd to me.

Aduro wrote:

kirsanth wrote:

Aduro wrote:Anyone notice they changed the Rending Claws for the Raveners? Look more like the Genestealer claws now instead of big hands.

Changed?

I should mention I, nor anyone at my FLGS, got the metal Raveners. I'm just looking at plastic and thinking of the only other plastic Rending Claws I know, the ones for Warriors. If the metal ones have the same claws as these, I guess it was an older change from hands to claws.

The metal Ravener's arm joins are too small to fit the warrior's RCs, but did fit the plastic Genestealer RCs perfectly(which are incidentally, the same style as the new Ravener plastic RCs).

Sidstyler wrote:

Aduro wrote:Are Warriors unlimited Troops, or only one, or what? Seems like a rather odd change if you can have an entire army of em.

"How can we sell more warrior kits?"

Not too odd to me.

Actually, what I think it might give us is a unit with some actual utility that can and will be in position to hold objectives. Just my Theoryhammer so far.

Ok, they seem to want the army more Swarm friendly, and I just can't see them making Warriors an unlimited option for Troops. I'm wagering one brood as Troops per a specific HQ option (Alpha Tyrant/Warriors?) or one brood as Troops per two broods of Gaunts/Hormagaunts.

Aduro wrote:Ok, they seem to want the army more Swarm friendly, and I just can't see them making Warriors an unlimited option for Troops. I'm wagering one brood as Troops per a specific HQ option (Alpha Tyrant/Warriors?) or one brood as Troops per two broods of Gaunts/Hormagaunts.

If they do the latter, I will be so annoyed that they STILL haven't done that for Marines/Scouts.

I personaly thing they got rid of the 0-1, 0-2 option.
What was the last Codex it came in?

Anpu42 wrote:I personaly thing they got rid of the 0-1, 0-2 option.
What was the last Codex it came in?

Imperial Guard has 0-2 Enginseers, 0-5 Priests and a Platoon has their own 0-X makeups.

True i forgot and i play IG, what i was talking about mostly was HQ's, you can now take 2 Company Comand Squads. i know there are others, but i would have to pull out my old codex and look for examples.

My guess is that it won't be that complicated. Warriors = Troops.

The assumption is that GW wants to nerf Nidzilla and boost swarms. And I think we're seeing that isn't their intent. Their design approach now is about allowing a variety of builds.

I have a gut feeling an altered form of Nidzilla will shake out to be quite powerful...maybe even the power build again.

Warriors = Seargents ?

skipmcne wrote:Warriors = Seargents ?

It's not clear if it *really* means anything, but the Incoming article shows a Tyranid army that is supposedly being prepped for the new codex. One pic is of 12 Warriors that it calls a single brood. It also has a mix of ST/RC, ST/DS and twin DS, with one venom cannon.

This all would seem to indicate the brood size has increased, that mixing and matching of weapons (and thus wound allocation games) are still allowed, and that Warriors still get one "heavy" per brood.

Aduro wrote:Are Warriors unlimited Troops, or only one, or what? Seems like a rather odd change if you can have an entire army of em.

For figs... I just don't like the Hive Guard. The concept is cool, but I don't like how they altered the current Tyrant Guard fig, which I do like, to it's new role.

Anyone notice they changed the Rending Claws for the Raveners? Look more like the Genestealer claws now instead of big hands.

Which is kinda funny as just a few months ago, I modeled my 4rth Ed ravenors with Genestealer arms that I purchased off of an Ebay Bitz store.

Wyoming: Ill get some pics up in a bit
All my ravs have stealer claws.
Simply because they look alot better.

So, my initial thoughts before this: Sweet! new model will do well, the gars are more than welcome, and the trygon was just a shock at the time.
Wasnt keen on the tyrant guards though, and the venomthingy looked like gak.
The pyrovore was just a hope it wouldnt look like the bio

My thoughts now: Im actually fething shocked!
GW have taken steps and done something well for a change.

Guards: Like these, but i may do some cutting and GS'ing to make them more upright. Dont like the leaning look.

Gargs: I think ill start with 20, and possibly go for even more.
I see these being the 2nd most popular sale (after the trygon) due to chaos players wanting wings
Nightlords raptors anyone? Possessed?

Ravs: Not impressed that much by them.
The heads and back section look worse than the previous (too much like warriors now) but the convertion options are nice now.
They are cheaper, but i may stick with my metal ones. (PM me if selling in bulk please )

Pyrovore: This is the biggest shock to me, GW have made a gunbeast that actually looks like it should do.
They are £20, but they are also on a 60mm base, so they are fex size i would think.
I'll be getting 1 for sure, if they are a 1-3 brood then ill take 3.
If they have no 0-1 unit restriction then ill be taking 6

Trygon: Well, where to start.
They look better than FW's prone-to-miscast thingy.
They are under half the price.
They are plastic so offer up alot more convertions.
I love it, i think ill have to buy one simply for the hell of it.

Maw: It looks like a spikey slug, its gak, and i think i may melt the parts for it when i get the trygon kit.


Unit composition:

Warriors now troops? Im guessing this is to push the nidzilla lists to the max.
Offering a multi-wound creature to them.

I love it overall, however, i am more than willing to bet that the fex now takes back seat as a heavy only option.
I highly doubt they will be available to elites anymore.


So yea, i may start my advanced order now

Platuan4th wrote:

Aduro wrote:

kirsanth wrote:

Aduro wrote:Anyone notice they changed the Rending Claws for the Raveners? Look more like the Genestealer claws now instead of big hands.

Changed?

I should mention I, nor anyone at my FLGS, got the metal Raveners. I'm just looking at plastic and thinking of the only other plastic Rending Claws I know, the ones for Warriors. If the metal ones have the same claws as these, I guess it was an older change from hands to claws.

The metal Ravener's arm joins are too small to fit the warrior's RCs, but did fit the plastic Genestealer RCs perfectly(which are incidentally, the same style as the new Ravener plastic RCs).

They did not come with rending claws.
I used the ones from Lictors.

Venomthrope looks silly. Kinda like the Doc on futurama.
Trygon and Mawloc are pretty cool. I like the head on the Mawloc

Raveners are nice. It would have been really cool if they had given the option for the Maw mouths from the original metals.
Gargoyles are plastic versions of the metals from what I can tell. good for gameplay. But there aren't any options on the sprues.

Pyrovore should have just been the new Biovore model. So instead of improving a model, GW just adds an entry. Go Profit!
Hive Guard is neat. Does give that Zoat feel.

Termagants at least have the option sprue.
Hormagaunts are overpriced without the extra sprue.

I notice a bare minimum of spare parts on the sprues. Especially disappointing from the Raveners.
I was hoping the price was because the sprues were packed. But, no, they are Terminator/Goldsword priced.

Where is the Tyranids' 47 heads? Look at all the optional bits they cram onto a Space Marine, and even Ork Boyz sprues.
To me that used to be the selling point of the plastics, all the cool bits.
Like the dog and stump with axe that came on the Bretonnian Men-at-arms.

Overall I like the models. But I can see the missed potential of bits.

Oh no. Must resist pausing Space Wolves and Raven Guard for Gribblies.

Savnock wrote:I notice that there are no biomorphs in the Hormagaunt package anymore. Guess that means no (even slight) variations in strength, etc. anymore, unless they've done something very stupid with bits.

There's still adrenals and toxin sacs with the termagants, though.

Yo man, just talk to some bug players who've bought a lot of battleforces. I have maybe 14 extra sprues of unused weapons. The only thing I clipped off was the rippers. Someone out there will have spares.

ooo damn, seriously thinking about collecting tyranids now, must buy the codex.

I did notice the similarities between the Trygon, new Ravener heads and a couple of the Space Hulk genestealers.

They all have those horizontal mandibles.

That is kind of cool.

I wonder if the Pyrovore's head is a separate bit. I love the model, mostly, but I don't care for the giant goiter it seems to be sporting and it'd be hard to shave off it the head is part of the model.

hrm...this coincides with my lgs selling off a massive amount of nids...shall I take the jump?

Beautiful. Brilliant.

The most exciting releases I've seen in a long, long time.

daedalusaf wrote:hrm...this coincides with my lgs selling off a massive amount of nids...shall I take the jump?

If they are trying to sell off the individual boxed gaunts / hormagaunts / warriors , dont fall for it.
Chances are they are doing it before the new battle force arrives.

Only buy them if they total up cheaper than the battle force. ^-^b

Just got the games workshop newsletter:

"Hive Guard are a brand-new unit type that can each unleash two Strength 8 shots a turn and who don't need line-of-sight to their target."

"Hormagaunts are lightning fast assault troops and are now only half the points they were in the previous Codex."

"Venomthropes are large, bloated creatures whose toxin sacs allow them to wound any foe on a 2+. "

"Add the all-new Pyrovore to your Tyranid army and watch as its acidic mucous eats through enemy infantry. "


--Posted by Zazzer on Warseer--

I really love the pyrovore , the only thing that i cant unsee is the massive under chin

I'm screwed, my wife is going to kill me.

Hmm, OT but I find it funny that right now I spot at least 2 posters who said they were gonna boycott GW starting in december for 2 months and now plan to buy Tyranid stuff (and you know who you are).

I seriously doubt those 2 will hold off until February but we shall see. Even if they do I'm betting they'll spend December and Januarys monthly budget in February so not really doing anything as what GW loses in sales to them those 2 months they'll get back in February (and beyond).

Finally, all the grandstanding on what they'll look like and how they've screwed everything put to rest. Praise the Lord for the end of the first half of the ignorant rumour-mill!

Now all we need is the codex to see how everything will change back to a previous edition and how they return to ideas they gave up on years ago.

I really love the hive guard though. I don't know about you guys but I like the pose and the cannon looks really nice... And I really hope I'll like using gargoyles on the field again, because I kind of like the new plastic ones.

I got a hold of the sprues for the raveners and the Trygon today.

As pictured earlier in the thread, both boxes come with 2 sprues.

There are 9 chest plates for the raveners so there will be alot in people's bits boxes.

The 'What the???' moment was only 1 moulded base top for the raveners.... do 3 or none, don't fiddle around with 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the Trygon comes with the oval base from the valkyrie

I am so excited! My Nids will be getting an expansion in 2010. I'm also really pleased with the price. Considering the Forgeworld Tygron is £80, the new plastic one being £30 is amazing. I'll definately be investing in two of them over time.

Fateweaver wrote:Hmm, OT but I find it funny that right now I spot at least 2 posters who said they were gonna boycott GW starting in december for 2 months and now plan to buy Tyranid stuff (and you know who you are).

I seriously doubt those 2 will hold off until February but we shall see. Even if they do I'm betting they'll spend December and Januarys monthly budget in February so not really doing anything as what GW loses in sales to them those 2 months they'll get back in February (and beyond).

Are you refering to me?
Never underestimate a Bug on a mission... I will get lots of these bugs in the future but I have a 5 year window to do so... 2 or 3 or 6 months... are nothing for a determined mind.

Is it just me or are some of those Leviathan Tyranids really poorly painted?

I absolutely love these new nid's.

The new models are amazing!!!!! I especially love the trygon and mawloc models.

I cant wait till the release, in january.

Tyranid warriors as troops sound absolutely amazing, i can see alot of warrior based armys in the future. and brood lord spam.

I would have waited an eternity for this!

I'd rather wait four weeks instead of eternity.

Why does the Trygon come with four sets of arms? Can you use the two bigger ones up top, and then one of the smaller ones for the third set?

Maybe the different arms are intended for the variants.

My only issue is with this:

Add the all-new Pyrovore to your Tyranid army and watch as its acidic mucous eats through enemy infantry

Did we need a new anti-infantry wpn as a nid player? Our whole damn army is anti-infantry...

Unless its a hi str melta template....mmmm melta...

From the GW website

"Under a Venomthrope's heavy carapace is a network of bulging, gas filled bladders that emit yellowish spore clouds. These clouds are lethal to non-Tyranid organisms and dense enough to obscure nearby Tyranid organisms."

So Nids have a KFF now? Well not that they really need it with all of the troop swarm cover saves.

Love the new models except for the Tyrant Guard. What amazes me the most is the prices are just as nice as the models.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Why does the Trygon come with four sets of arms? Can you use the two bigger ones up top, and then one of the smaller ones for the third set?

Mawlok has smaller top arms than the Trygon (at least pictured)

Looks like it's settled: I'm getting a new Tyranid army.

I can't wait for some rules to be leaked.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Why does the Trygon come with four sets of arms? Can you use the two bigger ones up top, and then one of the smaller ones for the third set?

There's five sets of talons actually. The smallest ones are the lowest set, which are shared by both variants. The top two sets are bigger on the Trygon than on the Mawloc.

wow just wow i super happy for after xmas now
love most models and i like the idea of the hive gruad but i didn't like the look of the Mawloc it looks to have an dosen sets of sycthing talons

Plankwalker wrote:From the GW website

"Under a Venomthrope's heavy carapace is a network of bulging, gas filled bladders that emit yellowish spore clouds. These clouds are lethal to non-Tyranid organisms and dense enough to obscure nearby Tyranid organisms."

So Nids have a KFF now? Well not that they really need it with all of the troop swarm cover saves.

Love the new models except for the Tyrant Guard. What amazes me the most is the prices are just as nice as the models.

Gaunts don't really need cover saves.

But Warriors and Carnifexes could sure us them.

There's five sets of talons actually. The smallest ones are the lowest set, which are shared by both variants. The top two sets are bigger on the Trygon than on the Mawloc.

We are talking about a Tunneling creature here. Extra arms are not unexplainable. I don't see Tyranids as a "set" biological organizm, they create and adapt whatever the need.

Redemption wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Why does the Trygon come with four sets of arms? Can you use the two bigger ones up top, and then one of the smaller ones for the third set?

There's five sets of talons actually. The smallest ones are the lowest set, which are shared by both variants. The top two sets are bigger on the Trygon than on the Mawloc.

Great News for anyone who is in need of extra sets of Talons!

Anyways, my wishlist...

Type 1: Will get at least 1, regardless of rules. 2+ if the rules are good.
Trygon
Pyrovore

Type 2: Will get as long as the rules are half decent.
Raveners
Hive Gaurd
Any old models

Type3: Probably will not be Getting.
Gargoyles: I convert mine from gaunts, and they have an entirely different look to them (Giant Dragonfly's)
Genestealers: I already have loads
Venomthrope: Looks way, way to fiddly.

Mahu wrote:

There's five sets of talons actually. The smallest ones are the lowest set, which are shared by both variants. The top two sets are bigger on the Trygon than on the Mawloc.

We are talking about a Tunneling creature here. Extra arms are not unexplainable. I don't see Tyranids as a "set" biological organizm, they create and adapt whatever the need.

We meant the number of arms on the sprues. Both the Mawloc and Trygon still conform to the 6-limbed template the 'Nids have adopted.

what gun does the hive guard have? a new one or one we have seen before? also since warriors are troops are they going to be alot cheaper so you can field quite a few of them?

acreedon wrote:I can't wait for some rules to be leaked.

I agree. I want to know what the Impaler Cannon does, as well as the Pyrovore.

Maybe we will get a gun that can punch armor, AND something that effectively has power weapons in CC.

lordbug wrote:what gun does the hive guard have? a new one or one we have seen before? also since warriors are troops are they going to be alot cheaper so you can field quite a few of them?

Hive Guard use an 'Impaler Cannon'. All we know so far is that it fires 2 S8 shots and doesn't need a Line of Sight.

from what I read it said acid in the description so maybe that will be are melta...=) I can hope cant I?

I suspect the Impaler Cannon impales stuff. But I could be wrong. It could squirt special geno-acid that causes kill-o-deathy de-gothification. I mean the Venom Cannon is a railgun, for example, when one unlearned in the lore of grimdark might imagine it to squirt venom.

I suspect the Impaler Cannon impales stuff. But I could be wrong. It could squirt special geno-acid that causes kill-o-deathy de-gothification. I mean the Venom Cannon is a railgun, for example, when one unlearned in the lore of grimdark might imagine it to squirt venom.



It can fire without line of site. And yes it impales stuff. Pyrovore fires flamer template Love th Pyrovore BTW!

My current bet is that the acid spray is a AP3 template weapon. The fireball weapon mentioned could be a cover save-denying blast. Every 5th edition army seems to have one, at least. Can't imagine it'd be equivalent to a Medusa if it's in Elites, though. So maybe it's a low S anti-horde weapon.

Regarding the impaler cannon, someone on Warseer said it ignores LOS AND denies cover. I think a unit of Hive Guard are a given in my army, and maybe even two, depending.

It sure doesn't look like there'll be a lot of high-powered tankbusting guns in the army, especially if Carnifexes get the rumored S nerf (although I'm guessing that comes with VCs being able to pen armor). Interestingly though, it seems Tyranids can be kitted to be fairly shooty overall. You can have Hive Guards and maybe Pyrovores in Elites; spammed Warriors and Deathspitters in Troops; with Biovores, shooty Carnifexes and (hopefully) VC-armed Warriors in HS.

Mind you, I don't think firebase Tyranids will work, but it looks like the army should have a decent amount of S6-8 stuff to use against transports. Based on the earlier rumors about crushing claws, etc., it also seems like they're intending CC to be one of the primary ways for Tyranids to bust vehicles. Which can be a tough road to hoe with the basic game mechanics being what they are. But I have a few ideas that might work reasonably well, especially with some fire support behind it. I'm sooooo ready to start tinkering.

. I'm sooooo ready to start tinkering.

you an me both

Hmmm...

1 Trygon?
Or 3?

SO MUCH FETHING WIN!!!

Considering advance ordering the codex... ooo, can't choose can't CHOOSE!!

gorgon wrote: Which can be a tough road to hoe with the basic game mechanics being what they are.

Tough row to hoe. Tough row. . .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NotThisTime wrote:I would have waited an eternity for this!

It's over Prime!

Am I the only one who actually likes the Venomthrope? I can't wait to see what they've done to Lictors. One of my favorite units in the game.

puma713 wrote:
Am I the only one who actually likes the Venomthrope? I can't wait to see what they've done to Lictors. One of my favorite units in the game.

I love Lictors (as far as the model goes), but the current rules prevent me from taking them seriously. All I've heard in regards to the new 'Dex so far is an increase back to 3 Wounds, and possible inclusion of Death Leaper.

There were some 'new' Secret Deployment rules posted a month or two ago but nothing's been said about them since so I'd take them with a grain of salt. But yeah, here's hoping Lictors will be worth using again!

Neith wrote:

puma713 wrote:
Am I the only one who actually likes the Venomthrope? I can't wait to see what they've done to Lictors. One of my favorite units in the game.

I love Lictors (as far as the model goes), but the current rules prevent me from taking them seriously. All I've heard in regards to the new 'Dex so far is an increase back to 3 Wounds, and possible inclusion of Death Leaper.

There were some 'new' Secret Deployment rules posted a month or two ago but nothing's been said about them since so I'd take them with a grain of salt. But yeah, here's hoping Lictors will be worth using again!

^^ That right there is what keeps me from using them right now. I hate how they deploy. They used to deploy from Reserves and just come onto the board whereever you like them (like the Callidus Assassin) which makes them really nice. However, once they start scattering and possibly scatter onto troops (friendly or otherwise), they may mishap, since (and correct me if I'm wrong) the 5th Edition rules don't say friendly/enemy troops count as impassible terrain. If it said that, then the Lictor would move to just outside of them, but otherwise he mishaps. And that is just ridiculous to me. It's a biological assassin - what, it tripped over a tree trying to get to that squad of IG's? Please fix the Secret Deployment and I will be a happy bug.

Yeah, that's the exact reason I don't run Lictors currently. It just seems stupid that a monster genetically designed to stalk its prey in the shadows would trip over everytime it tried to attack

I used to like the Secret Deployment rules when you picked a piece of terrain and wrote it down, and could spring the Lictor from it any time you wanted. The way it works now is just stupid.

Really, it needs the ability to pop out from anywhere and assault in the same turn. Even with 3 Wounds, a T4 5+ monster goes down fast to even some basic units.

Neith wrote:Yeah, that's the exact reason I don't run Lictors currently. It just seems stupid that a monster genetically designed to stalk its prey in the shadows would trip over everytime it tried to attack

I used to like the Secret Deployment rules when you picked a piece of terrain and wrote it down, and could spring the Lictor from it any time you wanted. The way it works now is just stupid.

Really, it needs the ability to pop out from anywhere and assault in the same turn. Even with 3 Wounds, a T4 5+ monster goes down fast to even some basic units.

Yep, pour a tactical squad worth of bolter shots into them and they're going to die. Also, I find it interesting that the new Battleforce has only troops in it.

I think the venomthrope is a bit deceptive. I think its one of those minis that will look less fiddly in person. While it is top heavy it seems like the tentacles are all separate pieces which can help with balancing it. Its really not that big either. For those who want to field but don't like the mini, the ravenors would probably lend themselves to conversions.

The thrope isnt actually badly balanced
the weight should be fine, i think the real problem with it will be pinning its lash arms on lol.
Also, a creature that removes attacks from enemies and also gives a cover save? i like.
Throw him with a fex or try and let them tear apart things
Or shield your swarm lol.

All i know is, even though i have decided to go with it and wait out 2 months, ill have a large order by then
Ill pinch a friends dex to get a 2k list planned out ready lol.

All in all from what i have seen so far: Nice job GW!
You have actually managed to finally re-design an army that people want to use.
The new models pretty much finish that off.
But its the rules that may or may not show otherwise.

I admit that I've fallen off of the wagon. Think of me what you will. I tried to be my usual pessimistic self, but they dragged me back in. Must be that second childhood crap creeping up on me... !!!

Warp, in theory im not actually holding off mate
Just stops me going against what ive said i'd do lol.

Sure, i wont be buying tyhem on release, but once the 2 months is up ill possibly spend a fair bit getting a 2-3k army
(allows me to use different builds then)


Also, i do want atleast 10 pyro's, not because they may be good, but the looks hot!
Nothing says "Goodbye armour" more than 10 gunbeasts

Say it don't spray it

ShumaGorath wrote:The hive guard has the soul edge, and that trygon is like a dream come true.

It's not the first time they paint an eye on a 'Nid gun.

Man, looking at that Trygon almost makes me want a 'Nid army. The Maw-thingy is interesting, but I don't really see why growing a larger mouth makes your arms go all T-Rex on you.

I want to get a Venomthrope, but convert it to be less Zoanthrope and more Lictor. Give it legs to stand on, two sets of the plastic Rending Claws, and have the tentacles coming off the backs of the wrists.

puma713 wrote:

Neith wrote:

puma713 wrote:
Am I the only one who actually likes the Venomthrope? I can't wait to see what they've done to Lictors. One of my favorite units in the game.

I love Lictors (as far as the model goes), but the current rules prevent me from taking them seriously. All I've heard in regards to the new 'Dex so far is an increase back to 3 Wounds, and possible inclusion of Death Leaper.

There were some 'new' Secret Deployment rules posted a month or two ago but nothing's been said about them since so I'd take them with a grain of salt. But yeah, here's hoping Lictors will be worth using again!

^^ That right there is what keeps me from using them right now. I hate how they deploy. They used to deploy from Reserves and just come onto the board whereever you like them (like the Callidus Assassin) which makes them really nice. However, once they start scattering and possibly scatter onto troops (friendly or otherwise), they may mishap, since (and correct me if I'm wrong) the 5th Edition rules don't say friendly/enemy troops count as impassible terrain. If it said that, then the Lictor would move to just outside of them, but otherwise he mishaps. And that is just ridiculous to me. It's a biological assassin - what, it tripped over a tree trying to get to that squad of IG's? Please fix the Secret Deployment and I will be a happy bug.

Friendly and Enemy models +1" count as impassable terrain. It does say this in the rule book.

In Codex: Tyranids 4th ed it says that Lictors must deploy in area terrain, can not be deployed outside of the selected area terrain and are not destroyed by landing in impassable terrain but "are placed as normal". The 1st one hurts Lictors because of 5th edition but the second two are their to make sure a Lictor will get off a first round charge.
Now, the second rule trumps the Enemy Impassable terrain rule because Enemy models are not area terrain so a Lictor can not scatter into them because doing so would take them outside the mandatory selected area terrain. The third rule says they "are placed as normal." Normal placing would be a mandatory dangerous terrain test.
Lictors can never roll on the Deep-strike Mishap Table because they can not mishap.

Now some people will try to say that scattering into Impassable Terrain, specifically enemy or friendly models, would cause them to roll on the Mishap Table stating that you technically never scattered out of the preselected Area Terrain. If they argue this enough then just go with it. Why? If they roll "Destroyed" then Codex: Tyranids 4th ed says that can not happen so you get to roll your Deep-Strike again because that is "placed as normal." If you roll "Opponent Gets to Place It" then it must be placed in a "valid Deep-strike formation." The only place a Lictor can have a "valid Deep-Strike formation", according to Codex: Tyranids 4th ed is in that Area Terrain you selected. If you roll "Go Back to Reserves" then it CAN count as being destroyed but Codex: Tyranids 4th ed says it can not be destroyed so it is "placed as normal." Re-roll your Deep-strike. So, you get a 2/3rds chance of redoing your Deep-strike and 1/3rd chance of letting your opponent select where the Lictor will be placed in the terrain you selected.

The more times I read the Lictor deployment rules the more I think that the way they were written in 4th edition really give the finger to 5th edition. You know, except for the whole you must take a dangerous terrain test.

Now, as other people have said, you're wrong about Lictor deployment in Codex: Tyranids 3rd ed. You preselect the area terrain and hope there is an enemy by it.




I can't wait for the new codex to come out and fix Lictors. I even ordered a Death Leaper to go with my other three Lictors.

Also, Tyranids aren't bugs despite having 6 legs. They do not have antennae and do not have definable body regions so they would be a separate Phylum of animals. Interesting fact, Dinosaurs are also considered to be their own animal Phylum and are not considered Reptiles. However, Dinosaurs have been considered to never have flown or swam so the fliers and dedicated swimmers are considered Reptiles. If Dinosaurs were still alive today then we would have Fish, Birds, Mammals, Reptiles, Bugs and Dinosaurs and what ever else I missed.


TL/DR: Nothing really important in this post. I just got bored.


vvvvvvv I figured everyone would understand that the +1" did not apply to friendly models seeing as how you would have to have never played any GW game to come up with the train of though that it did. It seems that I was wrong. Thanks for lowering my expectations for DakkaDakka.

Kwosge wrote:Friendly and Enemy models +1" count as impassable terrain. It does say this in the rule book.

For enemy models, yes. Friendlies do not have the 1" restriction.

Time to transfer my direct deposit from my bank account to my FLGS....

Sorry if someone's already asked this, I didn't bother to read all six pages, but are Hive Tyrants now really the only HQ choice available? Will there be any other HQ units in the new codex, or just those massive Hive Tyrants?

In short...is it going to be illegal to play a Tyranid army without any monstrous creatures under the new codex? Not that anyone was playing without them anyway, but I'm just curious.

While moving Zoanthropes out of Heavy Support was good, I'm surprised that they put them in Elites instead of HQ.

Nurglitch, that was what i was thinking.
Now nids have synapse in HQ, Elite and Troop with the new book.
I guess drawing out a fex and ID'ing him is out of the question now.
Also, i think thropes will sell alot more, since they are no longer competing with the fex for a space.

The fex however, poor bastard will get nerfed due to the new 250 point beast, aka big bastard trygon.

Also, me thinks if the venomthingymajiggy does provide cover like a KFF it will be making its way into alot of nid armies.

Im just interested in seeing weather or not certain unit restrictions are moved or added.
0-1 unit of licks per army makes sense, but other units shouldnt have this.

Im also wondering if they followed the new dex thing and allowed up to 4 HQ's lol, however, with only the tyrant there i doubt it, BL gets retires as a 0-1 option for a unit of stealers.

Sorry no pics as they are not permitted by my source... who also has the codex at his house.

Just finished assembling one of the raveners.

Lots of bits to pick and choose from. Make sure you work out well ahead of time what variants to go with army list wise, and either magnetise the chest pieces (easier said than done) or just man up and buy more models.

The Trygon is in (seemingly) dozens of pieces, getting flash cut off.

Fortunately the flash is minimal on both sets and is easily removed via hobby knife.

Assemble the main body/tail/carapace first then blu-tac a dry run for the rest of the pieces, a few shifts here and there will really change the 'feel' of the model's pose.
I prefer the 'I'm an anteater' look with arms spread wide in diabolically surprising splendor.

JD21290 wrote:
The fex however, poor bastard will get nerfed due to the new 250 point beast, aka big bastard trygon.

I don't know if 'fexes will be completely nerffed. From the looks of it, the new things are purely close combat. So while 'fexes might get kicked out of many lists and certainly start making less appearences, the good ol' dakka fex will probably stay for a little while. By the way (again, sorry if we've already gone over this) that Trygon looks like an immensely huge version of a Ravener. Will be able to deepstrike in the same way?

Addit: The Trygon should go with that look, it is so big it won't matter where its 'arms' are waving around.

For the raveners though, keep the limbs closer so you won't have to worry too much about aligning models in combat.

hmmmm... looks like i might already have some models for this new model.... go the NECRONIDS, cant seem to load my photo...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ironklawmadgutsmek wrote:hmmmm... looks like i might already have some models for this new model.... go the NECRONIDS, cant seem to load my photo...

Just check out my nids converts from necrons.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Addit: The Trygon should go with that look, it is so big it won't matter where its 'arms' are waving around.

For the raveners though, keep the limbs closer so you won't have to worry too much about aligning models in combat.

Just wondering, how many ravs per brood? and how many variations you can make?

What are the chest pieces anyway?

They represent the bio-weapons in the thoraxes. Presumably the bio-weapons are still thorax mounted, just now have bits for those wyswig types.

I figured as much. More interested in what they do - are they just internally mounted normal guns, or something different.

The Raveners had better be worth their cost. If I'm paying $74, they'd better be hacking up a lot of Marines.

Cheese Elemental wrote:The Raveners had better be worth their cost. If I'm paying $74, they'd better be hacking up a lot of Marines.

Well, it worked for convincing people to buy all-metal WHFB Daemons armies.

Cheese Elemental wrote:The Raveners had better be worth their cost. If I'm paying $74, they'd better be hacking up a lot of Marines.

Why pay $74 when you can pay $43.

Kirbinator wrote:

Cheese Elemental wrote:The Raveners had better be worth their cost. If I'm paying $74, they'd better be hacking up a lot of Marines.

Well, it worked for convincing people to buy all-metal WHFB Daemons armies.

Didn't work on me. I made all my Plaguebearers, Beasts of Nurgle, and even my Great Unclean One with no metal bitz, all plastic.

Sorry if someone's already asked this, I didn't bother to read all six pages, but are Hive Tyrants now really the only HQ choice available? Will there be any other HQ units in the new codex, or just those massive Hive Tyrants?

In short...is it going to be illegal to play a Tyranid army without any monstrous creatures under the new codex? Not that anyone was playing without them anyway, but I'm just curious.

I think there's Hive tyrant, Death leaper, and Alpha warriors.

FlammingGaunt wrote:

Sorry if someone's already asked this, I didn't bother to read all six pages, but are Hive Tyrants now really the only HQ choice available? Will there be any other HQ units in the new codex, or just those massive Hive Tyrants?

In short...is it going to be illegal to play a Tyranid army without any monstrous creatures under the new codex? Not that anyone was playing without them anyway, but I'm just curious.

I think there's Hive tyrant, Death leaper, and Alpha warriors.

As of right now Tyranid players MUST field a Hive Tyrant as their HQ slot.

Old One-Eye and the Death Leaper will probably be upgrade characters and are already stated as Elites or HS.
The Red Terror is being replaced by the Mawloc and is not in the codex.

All thoughts on Alpha Warriors are speculation, in my mind, but if there is an Alpha Warrior model or unit it will probably have some sort of army limiting factor in it. The only reasonably reliable information I have seen on Alpha Warriors is that ONE maybe be upgraded to an Alpha Warrior and that it will then fill up a slot on the HQ position.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Cheese Elemental wrote:The Raveners had better be worth their cost. If I'm paying $74, they'd better be hacking up a lot of Marines.

Why pay $74 when you can pay $43.

You mean why pay $44.50 from GW when you can order it from Maelstrom for $39.53. That's crazy savings!

Mahu wrote:You mean why pay $44.50 from GW when you can order it from Maelstrom for $39.53. That's crazy savings!

Yeah. You live in the US, where, like the UK, your prices are 30%-40% than us here in Australia.

Troll harder next time, kay?

I hope this means all the races are getting a new codex/sets.

Eldar Savior wrote:I hope this means all the races are getting a new codex/sets.

How long you been in this hobby my friend?

GW is always making new races. It just takes between 4-10 years to get the new one. They're in a constant state of renewal all the time.

I've been in 40k for about a year and have a fair (not large) sized eldar army.

Ok, well as I said, yes, technically every army will get new Codex/sets, but it's more about when that happens.

GW is in no rush to get your money, just as long as they get it eventually.

Kwosge wrote:

puma713 wrote:

Neith wrote:

puma713 wrote:
Am I the only one who actually likes the Venomthrope? I can't wait to see what they've done to Lictors. One of my favorite units in the game.

I love Lictors (as far as the model goes), but the current rules prevent me from taking them seriously. All I've heard in regards to the new 'Dex so far is an increase back to 3 Wounds, and possible inclusion of Death Leaper.

There were some 'new' Secret Deployment rules posted a month or two ago but nothing's been said about them since so I'd take them with a grain of salt. But yeah, here's hoping Lictors will be worth using again!

^^ That right there is what keeps me from using them right now. I hate how they deploy. They used to deploy from Reserves and just come onto the board whereever you like them (like the Callidus Assassin) which makes them really nice. However, once they start scattering and possibly scatter onto troops (friendly or otherwise), they may mishap, since (and correct me if I'm wrong) the 5th Edition rules don't say friendly/enemy troops count as impassible terrain. If it said that, then the Lictor would move to just outside of them, but otherwise he mishaps. And that is just ridiculous to me. It's a biological assassin - what, it tripped over a tree trying to get to that squad of IG's? Please fix the Secret Deployment and I will be a happy bug.

Friendly and Enemy models +1" count as impassable terrain. It does say this in the rule book.

Where does it say that enemy models +1" count as impassable terrain? I see where it says the enemy models themselves say they are impassable terrain, but where is 1"?

In Codex: Tyranids 4th ed it says that Lictors must deploy in area terrain, can not be deployed outside of the selected area terrain and are not destroyed by landing in impassable terrain but "are placed as normal". The 1st one hurts Lictors because of 5th edition but the second two are their to make sure a Lictor will get off a first round charge.
Now, the second rule trumps the Enemy Impassable terrain rule because Enemy models are not area terrain so a Lictor can not scatter into them because doing so would take them outside the mandatory selected area terrain. The third rule says they "are placed as normal." Normal placing would be a mandatory dangerous terrain test.
Lictors can never roll on the Deep-strike Mishap Table because they can not mishap.

Lictors can roll on the deep-strike mishap table. Why? Because of the reason we just discussed. Enemies +1" are not impassable terrain. Enemies themselves are. A lictor can deep-strike 1" away from impassable terrain. They can deep-strike .01" away from impassable terrain. Lictors cannot deep-strike within 1" of an enemy model. Not because it is impassable terrain, but because you're not allowed to be 1" of an enemy model outside of assaulting it. You can fight and fight that you can't move within 1" of an enemy model unless you're assaulting, so it is considered "impassable", but good luck with that, since the book doesn't say that. Not even in Assaults when talking about moving within 1" of an enemy model. Now, since the Lictor can deep-strike 1" away from enemy models and not be in impassable terrain, what happens? It mishaps. Sure, on page 11, it says you may not move within 1" of an enemy model unless assaulting it. Where does that say impassable terrain?

Now some people will try to say that scattering into Impassable Terrain, specifically enemy or friendly models, would cause them to roll on the Mishap Table stating that you technically never scattered out of the preselected Area Terrain. If they argue this enough then just go with it. Why? If they roll "Destroyed" then Codex: Tyranids 4th ed says that can not happen so you get to roll your Deep-Strike again because that is "placed as normal."

The entry doesn't say that in the Rulebook. It says "are lost in the warp. . shot down. . or some suitably dramatic even occurs. The 4th Ed. book says "if the terrain is classed as impassable, the lictor will be placed as normal. That's fine. We're not talking about that. We're talking about mishaps. If you move within 1" of an enemy, you mishap. You're not being destroyed by impassable terrain. You're being destroyed by "warp. . shot down. . .some other, etc. etc.".

If you roll "Opponent Gets to Place It" then it must be placed in a "valid Deep-strike formation." The only place a Lictor can have a "valid Deep-Strike formation", according to Codex: Tyranids 4th ed is in that Area Terrain you selected.

Codex Tyranids doesn't say anything about its Secret Deployment being a valid Deep-strike formation. All it says is that it must deep strike into a piece of area terrain. A valid deep-strike formation would mean how the unit is placed, not where it is placed. The rule says that it can be placed anywhere. I'd be tempted to call a judge over. I also wouldn't be surprised if the judge ruled that it could be placed anywhere else on the board, but within terrain.

If you roll "Go Back to eserves" then it CAN count as being destroyed but Codex: Tyranids 4th ed says it can not be destroyed so it is "placed as normal." Re-roll your Deep-strike. So, you get a 2/3rds chance of redoing your Deep-strike and 1/3rd chance of letting your opponent select where the Lictor will be placed in the terrain you selected.

Again, you're applying logic to words that aren't there. The rules don't say anything about being destroyed by going back into reserves. It says that they cannot be destroyed by impassible terrain. Being placed back in reserves =/= impassible terrain. A mishap =/= impassible terrain. In fact nothing = impassible terrain but impassible terrain.

The more times I read the Lictor deployment rules the more I think that the way they were written in 4th edition really give the finger to 5th edition. You know, except for the whole you must take a dangerous terrain test.

Now, as other people have said, you're wrong about Lictor deployment in Codex: Tyranids 3rd ed. You preselect the area terrain and hope there is an enemy by it.

I haven't seen anyone say this. However, since you're going to correct me, perhaps I should clarify. What I was talking about was placing the Lictor, not having to Deep Strike it, like the Callidus. Right, you can't place it "whereever", but you can place it in any form of cover pre-deployment, then it acts as normal once it arrives. It's not a matter of deep-striking. In 3rd Ed., you placed it on the edge of the terrain and that's where it would be - so you could have a great advantage - after all, how many people choose the terrain in their own deployment to secretly deploy their lictors. You deploy them where you think your enemy might move, say a forest or a building, etc. In 4th, depending on the size of the terrain, it could be on the other side of the terrain piece.


I can't wait for the new codex to come out and fix Lictors. I even ordered a Death Leaper to go with my other three Lictors.

Also, Tyranids aren't bugs despite having 6 legs. They do not have antennae and do not have definable body regions so they would be a separate Phylum of animals. Interesting fact, Dinosaurs are also considered to be their own animal Phylum and are not considered Reptiles. However, Dinosaurs have been considered to never have flown or swam so the fliers and dedicated swimmers are considered Reptiles. If Dinosaurs were still alive today then we would have Fish, Birds, Mammals, Reptiles, Bugs and Dinosaurs and what ever else I missed.

Really? Are you this anal? I know that below it says you're bored, but does that mean you need to nit-pick about everything someone says? Yeah, dinosaurs weren't lizards, but Sauria, the root of its taxon means "lizard". Although they aren't lizards, that's what people called them. Yeah, Nids aren't bugs, but it's a colloquial name for them. What phylum are Orks in? Tau? I mean, since we're splitting hairs here.

TL/DR: Nothing really important in this post. I just got bored.

A nice way of trying to excuse yourself being a prick. Kinda like when you insult someone and then say "Just kidding." Like that erases it.

Thanks for lowering my expectations for DakkaDakka.

This.

^^ My comments above are in red.

Everyone who hasn't seen it, get in here!

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/12/40k-rumors-latest-tyranid-rules.html

Taco Bell wrote:
Hormagaunts: Improved Initiative. Point costs halved.

Gaunts: nothing new there.

Gargoyles: A poisoned attack that excactly works as the Warhammer Fantasy Poisoned attacks rule work: Each roll of 6 to hit always wounds. Armour saves applied normally. Poison glands available. Point Costs halved.

Raveners: Plastic Kits of three with lots of options for thorax weapons.

Tyranid Warriors: Improved armoursaves, 3 Lifepoints each. ~Wounds Core unit. You still may have Tyrant Warrior Alphas as HQ choices.

Lictor: 3 for a FOC, no 0-1 Limit. 3 Lifepoints. ~Wounds

Lictor Death Leaper: In the list. WS9, I 7, Rending on 5+.

Old One Eye: In the list.

Red Terror: NOT in the list.

Hive Tyrand: The major HQ choice again.

Hive Guard: Harpoon Cannon does not need LOS. Longe Range weapon.
From a different angle, they really do NOT look like Centaurs at all. They just lean on their middle limbs to balance, bud they really are not 2 pairs of legs.

Genestealers: Point costs dropped. No info if they are core or elite.

Broodlord: Upgrade to all Genestealer squads. Psychic powers.

Venomthrope: Poisoned Attacks that wound on 2+. Grants 5+ cover save to all models within 6 inches.

Pyrovore: Melee Monster with flaming template weapon.

Zoanthrope: Apperantly no 0-1 choice any more.

Carnifexes: Squads of up to 3. Increased ballistic skills.

Trygon: He's there. Monstrous Creature.

Mawloc: He's there too.

Expect some new weapon symbiotes.

At least two new bioweapons: a cannon (Hive Guard and/or Pyrovore) and a thorax swarm (Pyrovore?).

Broodlord no HQ (still hoping for Broodlord Alpha being one).

Ravenors compatible sizewise with Warriors (was said before IIRC)

Carnifex gets more attacks and better BS. Broods of 3 confirmed.

Biomorphs for Gargoyles not included but sprue available separately (most people will have enough from the gaunts boxes). "Venom rending" confirmed (automatic wound on 6).

Trygon same size as FW one (see attached pic, my trygon based on a CD). Monstrous creature, parts compatible with carnifex. Will form tunnel swarm together with Ravenors. Will get Apocalypse data sheets in WD Ferbuary. Alpha Trygon Synapse.

Mawloc (German Morgon!) shock troop, can fall back, can borrow/disappear during movement phase just to shock back next round. If Mawloc base shocking in contact with enemy base, place 5" template above and everyone in contact with it will get S6 AP2 hit.

Pyrovore called cc monster with said acid spray attack, but personally I am still convinced of the second artillery attack. GW suggests to also use Pyrovore counting as big Biovore.

Broodlord and Warriors removed from HQ, leaving the lone Hive tyrant (still hoping for Alpha variants).

Tyrant guard gets frenzy and another rule, if Hive Tyrant is killed.

Lictor not 0-1 anymore, one more life, cheaper. Death leaper in Codex with some special rules and mail order only.

Red Terror not rulewise in Codex (just mentioned), model can be used counting as Ravenor.

Zoanthrope has "long range" anti-tank (longer than before?).

Have at it guys. Apparenty Black boxes ship out next week, so the Games Workshop marketing window for Tyranids is officially open.

But what the feth am I supposed to do against nine Carnifexes?

But what the feth am I supposed to do against nine Carnifexes?

What is anyone supposed to do against nine Carnifexes? Perhaps massive Ork mobs can deal with that, everyone else just got 'fexed, pun intended.

Oooh, T. Bell copy/pasted from Warseer.

3 broods of 3 as heavies or play Planetstrike or Apoc.

'Tis what happens when you take a WAAC list. When they actually bring balance to another type of army you are fooked.

They really, really want to sell the crap out of Gaunts and 'Fexes, eh? I'm most interested in the Trygon Alpha. If you can have two of them as HQ and three regular ones as heavy support, Fzorgle! (Trygzilla?)

Trygon Alpha gets synapse. Nothing said about them becoming HQ. Doesn't mean it won't happen but I'd be willing to bet it won't. HQ does not a Synapse creature make. Take the current Zoanthrope or Elite Warriors.

Well the Bell of lost souls has a few things disproven already. All the new models are up on the GW website and gatogorized. The death leaper/old one eye/Red Terror, are all in there. Only HQ is Hive Tyrant, that seems somewhat odd to me. Some HQ's allow alternate units to be chosen as troops, maye its the reverse for new nids, take enough of troop X and you can use a paticular unit as an alternate HQ. I know many people do not like the new Venomthrope. but the discription on the GW site seems to support them offering some sort of cover save to nearby units. I don't know if they are going to up the armour saves or wounds on warriors, will have to see the points value. Lets see 12 warriors, at 3 plus saves, with the Venomthrope nearby to give cover saves......... Smells cheezy to me.

doubled wrote:Well the Bell of lost souls has a few things disproven already. All the new models are up on the GW website and gatogorized. The death leaper/old one eye/Red Terror, are all in there. Only HQ is Hive Tyrant, that seems somewhat odd to me. Some HQ's allow alternate units to be chosen as troops, maye its the reverse for new nids, take enough of troop X and you can use a paticular unit as an alternate HQ. I know many people do not like the new Venomthrope. but the discription on the GW site seems to support them offering some sort of cover save to nearby units. I don't know if they are going to up the armour saves or wounds on warriors, will have to see the points value. Lets see 12 warriors, at 3 plus saves, with the Venomthrope nearby to give cover saves......... Smells cheezy to me.

Like what? All I've seen BotLS say about what you're bringing up is that:

Death Leaper is in @ WS 9, I 7, Rending on 5+.

Old One Eye is back.

And Red Terror has references to it in the lore, but there are no actual rules for it. It can be used as a Ravenor if you like.

The Dark Angel Deathwing Terminator is under Space Marines Elites, and also under the Dark Angels category. Does that mean that a normal Space Marine (ie. Ultramarines and the like) army can field Deathwing Terminators?

Not as bad as the Plaguebearer/Fateweaver combo. I think it's rumored at 5+ though cover save. Only thing rumored to change with Warriors is 1 more wound.

Assuming 3W, T4 with 4+ save and 5+ invul, they will get shredded by HB devs or IG autocannon teams.

As of right now Tyranid players MUST field a Hive Tyrant as their HQ slot.

Nope.

Bringing 9 Carnifexes =/= WAAC.

In fact, I'd hazard a guess as to say that:

A). It'll be a waste of points.
B). Carnifexes won't be as tough/dangerous as they are now.
C). Their weapon options will be different (ie. no more Dakkafexes or Gunfexes).

H.B.M.C. wrote:Bringing 9 Carnifexes =/= WAAC.

In fact, I'd hazard a guess as to say that:

A). It'll be a waste of points.
B). Carnifexes won't be as tough/dangerous as they are now.
C). Their weapon options will be different (ie. no more Dakkafexes or Gunfexes).

Supposedly, their BS has been increased. <shrug>

Moloch wrote:Nope.

Well don't hold back Moloch. The cat's out of the bag as far as the Trygon goes, and we knew you knew about it. Might as well stop the hysterical rumours and just tell us what else can be taken as HQ.

puma713 wrote:Supposedly, their BS has been increased. <shrug>

As it fething should. The mono-dimensional way GW handles their fluff-to-rules translations is really annoying. It's why all Orks are BS2... even the ones that spend their whole lives shooting. Tyranids shouldn't be bad at shooting - sure some of them should be incapable of it - but those evolved for shooting should be capable of shooting and shooting well.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Moloch wrote:Nope.

Well don't hold back Moloch. The cat's out of the bag as far as the Trygon goes, and we knew you knew about it. Might as well stop the hysterical rumours and just tell us what else can be taken as HQ.

Just saying that there might be a couple of kittens left in the bag...

What?

A Trykitten?!

Holy crap!

How big is a pyrovore? as good looking as it is , the price is very similar to Trygon , which means we should get 3 Trygon before getting pyrovore!

Moloch wrote:Just saying that there might be a couple of kittens left in the bag...

You mean more new units that won't get models for another 6-24 months! Wow!

Aren't release waves totally the bestest idea ever!

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Sorry no pics as they are not permitted by my source... who also has the codex at his house.

I prefer the 'I'm an anteater' look with arms spread wide in diabolically surprising splendor.

Admit it. You have just been waiting for an chance to use that picture come hell or high water.

Steelmage99 wrote:

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Sorry no pics as they are not permitted by my source... who also has the codex at his house.

I prefer the 'I'm an anteater' look with arms spread wide in diabolically surprising splendor.

Admit it. You have just been waiting for an chance to use that picture come hell or high water.

Guilty as charged....

LunaHound wrote:How big is a pyrovore? as good looking as it is , the price is very similar to Trygon , which means we should get 3 Trygon before getting pyrovore!

The pyrovore is supplied with a 60mm base... like IG heavy weapon teams. In all the pictures it pretty much stands across the entire base. I'd say its about the size of a thunderfire cannon. As far as metal models go it doesn't seem like that bad of a deal. The biovore is $3 less and is only 2/3 the size...well then again it has those spore mines.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Moloch wrote:Just saying that there might be a couple of kittens left in the bag...

You mean more new units that won't get models for another 6-24 months! Wow!

Aren't release waves totally the bestest idea ever!

Second wave = next codex release. You know it.

This "new direction" GW was going with first and second waves lasted only about two codex releases if I remember correctly. The second wave of Guard was what? Some special characters? I'm not a Gw hater, but It would be nice if new standards (yes, I'm thinking about codex layout) were thoroughly thought out and then executed and not shafted after one or two attempts.

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S. OT: I'm satisfied. The new Ravener and Trygon models fit nicely with my melee theme and I'm going to get one or two of each boxes. I'm a shining example that, with a superb price, you buy more and not less. Trygon = >50€ -> no sale. Trygon = 39€ -> one or two please.

I'm satisied. Will be getting loads of the new stuff asap.

And by the way...who is this Moloch fellow? I recognise the reference in his name, but how does he know all this stuff?

My father is going to be very pleased with these new models, He is also wondering if the genestealers will be moved to elites...

@HBMC: I wasn't trolling, I was being ignorant. I apologize to you and Paul Hogan.

Schepp himself wrote:
This "new direction" GW was going with first and second waves lasted only about two codex releases if I remember correctly. The second wave of Guard was what? Some special characters? I'm not a Gw hater, but It would be nice if new standards (yes, I'm thinking about codex layout) were thoroughly thought out and then executed and not shafted after one or two attempts.

Some SC's and 2 tanks. Then again, Guard are getting more stuff in March...

There still seems to be a "wave" system in place, but I think they less formalized it in order to have the flexibility they need to accommodate production and the realease dates that maximize their stock (create profit before earnings, etc.)

At least we don't have the "good old days" of waiting till another codex release to get more models released. Remember the Drop Pod?

On the Carnifex issue, I don't think the possibility of facing 9 of them is "doom and gloom" worthy. They are is squads, and they have to compete with Heavy Warriors, Trygons, and hopefully better Biovores.

BrassScorpion wrote:

But what the feth am I supposed to do against nine Carnifexes?

What is anyone supposed to do against nine Carnifexes? Perhaps massive Ork mobs can deal with that, everyone else just got 'fexed, pun intended.

The dude that brought 30 assault terminators will probably be able to take the nine carnifex guy. Same with the nine demolisher/colossus guy. Bloodcrusher bro and the lashwhip kid will also make short work of the squads if either are taken in sufficient number. My sternguard+10 plasmagun squad will devour at least one of these squads outright at the start, though unless it's a pricey fex squadron they probably won't be cost effective in doing so.

JD21290 wrote:

The fex however, poor bastard will get nerfed due to the new 250 point beast, aka big bastard trygon.

.

I don't think the fex will be as bad off as you think since now they will come in squads of 1-3 for a heavy support slot. Hmmm... 9 fex can be an intimidating sight.

i think it will be six fex and 1 mawloc.

There has to be some kind of trade off for taking 9 fex's though. If I take 3 killakans in a squad and one of them gets immobilized, its dead. Granted I do get to ignore that stun and shaken results, and take 3 heavy support models in a single squad, I still have that one glaring issue hanging over my head. The biggest advantage in my eyes is that the fexs ignore all those rules, and now they are ignoring the biggest negative to taking 3 heavies to a single slot.

Am I worried about now being surrounded again by unbalanced nid armies like back in 3rd edition? Yea, but Im holding out hope that there will be a drawback and in the end just end up like the jaws of the world wolf: Something we all freaked out about but then played against it and found it to be completely useless to the enemy.

All looks pretty amazing, but I'm going to be good and stick with my Skaven for now.

Those gargoyle wings would be pretty good for Furies/Harpies (i.e. anything that has crappy metal wings at the moment) conversions.

Lukus83 wrote:I'm satisied. Will be getting loads of the new stuff asap.

And by the way...who is this Moloch fellow? I recognise the reference in his name, but how does he know all this stuff?

Uhhhh, not that I actually told something here....

Are those holes in the Ravener thorax the weapons themselves, or simply a port to add a weapon to? While it would be nice for people to be able to see what weapon a Ravener is carrying for WYSIWYG purposes, I can't imagine a big deathspitter barrel sticking out of your chest being conducive to burrowing.

Moloch wrote:

Lukus83 wrote:I'm satisied. Will be getting loads of the new stuff asap.

And by the way...who is this Moloch fellow? I recognise the reference in his name, but how does he know all this stuff?

Uhhhh, not that I actually told something here....

Moloch, it's ok, these kids don't know any better.

Lukus83, go open a copy of the Apocalypse book to the big Nids vs. UM battle and the double spread page with the Tyranid Apocalypse force.

Moloch wrote:

Lukus83 wrote:I'm satisied. Will be getting loads of the new stuff asap.

And by the way...who is this Moloch fellow? I recognise the reference in his name, but how does he know all this stuff?

Uhhhh, not that I actually told something here....

Oh, don't be coy. Your clever cypher revealed EVERYTHING.

I'm rather impressed with the mawloc str6 ap2 blast, just about every turn. hmmm bye bye termies.

Fateweaver wrote:Not as bad as the Plaguebearer/Fateweaver combo. I think it's rumored at 5+ though cover save. Only thing rumored to change with Warriors is 1 more wound.

Assuming 3W, T4 with 4+ save and 5+ invul, they will get shredded by HB devs or IG autocannon teams.

I've probably done the math wrong, but wouldn't it take 2 turns of shooting for a ig autocannon team to take down 1 warrior with these stats? 12 shots, 6 hit, 5 wound, 3.2 wounds caused.
Similar for Marine dev squads with heavy bolters. It takes a whole squads shooting to take down 1. Quicker, but they do cost twice the price.

Moloch wrote:

Lukus83 wrote:I'm satisied. Will be getting loads of the new stuff asap.

And by the way...who is this Moloch fellow? I recognise the reference in his name, but how does he know all this stuff?

Uhhhh, not that I actually told something here....

So the Mawloc is some type of tribute to you? Mawloc is pronounced nearly like Moloch is it not, and you're GW's main Tyranid fanboy aren't you? Last time around I remember you having like 9 painted Carnifexes before anyone else even had the new model. Did you have a hand in creating the concept of the new creature? What about the actual rules?

I see no other logical explanation for the name. Mawloc has to be one of the dumbest Nid creature names ever designed, although the Venomthrope comes close. Which ones of the following simply don't belong: Harridan, Hierodule, Hierophant, Carnifex, Trygon, Exocrine, Haruspex, Mawloc, Venomthrope? The people who first came up with Tyranids don't work for the company anymore, or simply don't call the shots. It's just sad. What's next? Clawphant, Firedule, Killercrine and Speederfex?

Schepp himself wrote:
Second wave = next codex release. You know it.

This "new direction" GW was going with first and second waves lasted only about two codex releases if I remember correctly. The second wave of Guard was what? Some special characters? I'm not a Gw hater, but It would be nice if new standards (yes, I'm thinking about codex layout) were thoroughly thought out and then executed and not shafted after one or two attempts.

The waves were never about meeting some magical schedule of periodic releases. It was about making codex updates occur more quickly. If GW waited till all the new IG models were complete, the codex would still not be out and would likely wait till the end of next year. Ork, Chaos, Space Marines, and IG are the only books we should expect "second waves" since only their releases were done with that intention. Space Marines have seen their's; Ork and IG as well. Chaos marine should probably be complaining, but I believe all the demon stuff would have been their second wave had it not been done as an afterthought in writing chaos space marines, a second codex.

GW said that in march we'll be hit with additional waves of releases. SM (Blood angels), Orks, and IG. This will be orks and IG 3rd wave. SM well they get something every year, so what ever.

The idea was that the waves would allow the model ranges to be completed at a different pace than the codices, allowing quicker codex releases. This is what is happening. GW "plans" to release 4 codices this year. Tyranids will be relatively complete with the release of their codex. They won't need a second wave. Blood Angels will be relatively complete with the release of their codex. They won't need a second wave. Following that trend, 4 codices are possible, in addition to 2 other major releases next year and what ever minor releases GW decides to do in months dominated by fantasy releases. This leaves room open for 2 other "second waves" if the 3rd and 4th codex of next were out by fall.

You guys come off as complaining when there isn't anything to complain about.

I think a new Broodlord could be part of a second miniwave. Certainly the existing one badly needs an update to the new (vastly superior) SH look.

A plastic Tyrant is a possibility, but I dunno if that makes sense for GW. You can't spam Tyrants like you can spam Carnifexes.

aka_mythos wrote:

Schepp himself wrote:
Second wave = next codex release. You know it.

This "new direction" GW was going with first and second waves lasted only about two codex releases if I remember correctly. The second wave of Guard was what? Some special characters? I'm not a Gw hater, but It would be nice if new standards (yes, I'm thinking about codex layout) were thoroughly thought out and then executed and not shafted after one or two attempts.

The waves were never about meeting some magical schedule of periodic releases. It was about making codex updates occur more quickly. If GW waited till all the new IG models were complete, the codex would still not be out and would likely wait till the end of next year. Ork, Chaos, Space Marines, and IG are the only books we should expect "second waves" since only their releases were done with that intention. Space Marines have seen their's; Ork and IG as well. Chaos marine should probably be complaining, but I believe all the demon stuff would have been their second wave had it not been done as an afterthought in writing chaos space marines, a second codex.

GW said that in march we'll be hit with additional waves of releases. SM (Blood angels), Orks, and IG. This will be orks and IG 3rd wave. SM well they get something every year, so what ever.

The idea was that the waves would allow the model ranges to be completed at a different pace than the codices, allowing quicker codex releases. This is what is happening. GW "plans" to release 4 codices this year. Tyranids will be relatively complete with the release of their codex. They won't need a second wave. Blood Angels will be relatively complete with the release of their codex. They won't need a second wave. Following that trend, 4 codices are possible, in addition to 2 other major releases next year and what ever minor releases GW decides to do in months dominated by fantasy releases.

You guys come off as complaining when there isn't anything to complain about.

So your saying we would have only had one codex released last year without the wave releases? Must those 5 hour lunch breaks that the designers takes....

gorgon wrote:I think a new Broodlord could be part of a second miniwave. Certainly the existing one badly needs an update to the new (vastly superior) SH look.

Or you could just use the Space Hulk one (if you have one )

Therion wrote:

Moloch wrote:

Lukus83 wrote:I'm satisied. Will be getting loads of the new stuff asap.

And by the way...who is this Moloch fellow? I recognise the reference in his name, but how does he know all this stuff?

Uhhhh, not that I actually told something here....

So the Mawloc is some type of tribute to you? Mawloc is pronounced nearly like Moloch is it not, and you're GW's main Tyranid fanboy aren't you? Last time around I remember you having like 9 painted Carnifexes before anyone else even had the new model. Did you have a hand in creating the concept of the new creature? What about the actual rules?

I see no other logical explanation for the name. Mawloc has to be one of the dumbest Nid creature names ever designed, although the Venomthrope comes close. Which ones of the following simply don't belong: Harridan, Hierodule, Hierophant, Carnifex, Trygon, Exocrine, Haruspex, Mawloc, Venomthrope? The people who first came up with Tyranids don't work for the company anymore, or simply don't call the shots. It's just sad. What's next? Clawphant, Firedule, Killercrine and Speederfex?

That and I guess Latin has finally fallen out of favor in England's schools too...

And, as was previously mentioned, I hope GW eventually makes the Gargoyle wing sprue available separately because they really would make fury conversions a hell of a lot easier than they are now...

Well there's isn't really a seperate wing sprue, at best you'd get 4 Gargoyles without their Fleshborers.

puma713 wrote:

Kwosge wrote:

puma713 wrote:

Neith wrote:

puma713 wrote:
Am I the only one who actually likes the Venomthrope? I can't wait to see what they've done to Lictors. One of my favorite units in the game.

I love Lictors (as far as the model goes), but the current rules prevent me from taking them seriously. All I've heard in regards to the new 'Dex so far is an increase back to 3 Wounds, and possible inclusion of Death Leaper.

There were some 'new' Secret Deployment rules posted a month or two ago but nothing's been said about them since so I'd take them with a grain of salt. But yeah, here's hoping Lictors will be worth using again!

^^ That right there is what keeps me from using them right now. I hate how they deploy. They used to deploy from Reserves and just come onto the board whereever you like them (like the Callidus Assassin) which makes them really nice. However, once they start scattering and possibly scatter onto troops (friendly or otherwise), they may mishap, since (and correct me if I'm wrong) the 5th Edition rules don't say friendly/enemy troops count as impassible terrain. If it said that, then the Lictor would move to just outside of them, but otherwise he mishaps. And that is just ridiculous to me. It's a biological assassin - what, it tripped over a tree trying to get to that squad of IG's? Please fix the Secret Deployment and I will be a happy bug.

Friendly and Enemy models +1" count as impassable terrain. It does say this in the rule book.

Where does it say that enemy models +1" count as impassable terrain? I see where it says the enemy models themselves say they are impassable terrain, but where is 1"?

In Codex: Tyranids 4th ed it says that Lictors must deploy in area terrain, can not be deployed outside of the selected area terrain and are not destroyed by landing in impassable terrain but "are placed as normal". The 1st one hurts Lictors because of 5th edition but the second two are their to make sure a Lictor will get off a first round charge.
Now, the second rule trumps the Enemy Impassable terrain rule because Enemy models are not area terrain so a Lictor can not scatter into them because doing so would take them outside the mandatory selected area terrain. The third rule says they "are placed as normal." Normal placing would be a mandatory dangerous terrain test.
Lictors can never roll on the Deep-strike Mishap Table because they can not mishap.

Lictors can roll on the deep-strike mishap table. Why? Because of the reason we just discussed. Enemies +1" are not impassable terrain. Enemies themselves are. A lictor can deep-strike 1" away from impassable terrain. They can deep-strike .01" away from impassable terrain. Lictors cannot deep-strike within 1" of an enemy model. Not because it is impassable terrain, but because you're not allowed to be 1" of an enemy model outside of assaulting it. You can fight and fight that you can't move within 1" of an enemy model unless you're assaulting, so it is considered "impassable", but good luck with that, since the book doesn't say that. Not even in Assaults when talking about moving within 1" of an enemy model. Now, since the Lictor can deep-strike 1" away from enemy models and not be in impassable terrain, what happens? It mishaps. Sure, on page 11, it says you may not move within 1" of an enemy model unless assaulting it. Where does that say impassable terrain?

Now some people will try to say that scattering into Impassable Terrain, specifically enemy or friendly models, would cause them to roll on the Mishap Table stating that you technically never scattered out of the preselected Area Terrain. If they argue this enough then just go with it. Why? If they roll "Destroyed" then Codex: Tyranids 4th ed says that can not happen so you get to roll your Deep-Strike again because that is "placed as normal."

The entry doesn't say that in the Rulebook. It says "are lost in the warp. . shot down. . or some suitably dramatic even occurs. The 4th Ed. book says "if the terrain is classed as impassable, the lictor will be placed as normal. That's fine. We're not talking about that. We're talking about mishaps. If you move within 1" of an enemy, you mishap. You're not being destroyed by impassable terrain. You're being destroyed by "warp. . shot down. . .some other, etc. etc.".

If you roll "Opponent Gets to Place It" then it must be placed in a "valid Deep-strike formation." The only place a Lictor can have a "valid Deep-Strike formation", according to Codex: Tyranids 4th ed is in that Area Terrain you selected.

Codex Tyranids doesn't say anything about its Secret Deployment being a valid Deep-strike formation. All it says is that it must deep strike into a piece of area terrain. A valid deep-strike formation would mean how the unit is placed, not where it is placed. The rule says that it can be placed anywhere. I'd be tempted to call a judge over. I also wouldn't be surprised if the judge ruled that it could be placed anywhere else on the board, but within terrain.

If you roll "Go Back to eserves" then it CAN count as being destroyed but Codex: Tyranids 4th ed says it can not be destroyed so it is "placed as normal." Re-roll your Deep-strike. So, you get a 2/3rds chance of redoing your Deep-strike and 1/3rd chance of letting your opponent select where the Lictor will be placed in the terrain you selected.

Again, you're applying logic to words that aren't there. The rules don't say anything about being destroyed by going back into reserves. It says that they cannot be destroyed by impassible terrain. Being placed back in reserves =/= impassible terrain. A mishap =/= impassible terrain. In fact nothing = impassible terrain but impassible terrain.

The more times I read the Lictor deployment rules the more I think that the way they were written in 4th edition really give the finger to 5th edition. You know, except for the whole you must take a dangerous terrain test.

Now, as other people have said, you're wrong about Lictor deployment in Codex: Tyranids 3rd ed. You preselect the area terrain and hope there is an enemy by it.

I haven't seen anyone say this. However, since you're going to correct me, perhaps I should clarify. What I was talking about was placing the Lictor, not having to Deep Strike it, like the Callidus. Right, you can't place it "whereever", but you can place it in any form of cover pre-deployment, then it acts as normal once it arrives. It's not a matter of deep-striking. In 3rd Ed., you placed it on the edge of the terrain and that's where it would be - so you could have a great advantage - after all, how many people choose the terrain in their own deployment to secretly deploy their lictors. You deploy them where you think your enemy might move, say a forest or a building, etc. In 4th, depending on the size of the terrain, it could be on the other side of the terrain piece.


I can't wait for the new codex to come out and fix Lictors. I even ordered a Death Leaper to go with my other three Lictors.

Also, Tyranids aren't bugs despite having 6 legs. They do not have antennae and do not have definable body regions so they would be a separate Phylum of animals. Interesting fact, Dinosaurs are also considered to be their own animal Phylum and are not considered Reptiles. However, Dinosaurs have been considered to never have flown or swam so the fliers and dedicated swimmers are considered Reptiles. If Dinosaurs were still alive today then we would have Fish, Birds, Mammals, Reptiles, Bugs and Dinosaurs and what ever else I missed.

Really? Are you this anal? I know that below it says you're bored, but does that mean you need to nit-pick about everything someone says? Yeah, dinosaurs weren't lizards, but Sauria, the root of its taxon means "lizard". Although they aren't lizards, that's what people called them. Yeah, Nids aren't bugs, but it's a colloquial name for them. What phylum are Orks in? Tau? I mean, since we're splitting hairs here.

TL/DR: Nothing really important in this post. I just got bored.

A nice way of trying to excuse yourself being a prick. Kinda like when you insult someone and then say "Just kidding." Like that erases it.

Thanks for lowering my expectations for DakkaDakka.

This.

^^ My comments above are in red.

Hey smarty please read page 13 in your 5th edition rulebook. Specifically the section, "Guidelines on categorizing terrain." Specifically the part where is says that enemy's are impassable terrain.
Page 11 on the big book says you can not move within 1" of enemy models. Page 13 callas Impassable Terrain as terrain that you can not move into.
The rule book calls enemy models impassable terrain twice in the rule book.

Codex: Tyranids 4th ed says that Lictors can not be destroyed by Deep-striking into Impassable terrain.

I didn't even read what you said past your crying about how illiterate you are and how you never read the core movement or terrain rules of 40k. Because you didn't read them I don't have to read the rest of your post because you're wrong. Enemy models +1" count as impassable terrain. It says that in the rule book. Lictors can not be destroyed by Impassable terrain but are instead placed as normal. The only valid place to put a Lictor, according to Codex: Tyranids 4th ed is in the terrain that the selected. Codex overrides Rulebook. This discussion is over.

:smug:

Tresson wrote:So your saying we would have only had one codex released last year without the wave releases? Must those 5 hour lunch breaks that the designers takes....

By having a faster turn around on the codex it allows GW to separate the work being done by the designers for the book and the work being done for the miniatures allowing more of the game design while the miniature design is done by others. We would have had the codices, they just wouldn't have added as many new units to them, fewer models would have been redone, and likely GW would not have had the design time available to put out Space Hulk, Planet Strike, and Planetary Empires. All this makes sense knowing GW is trying to maximize its man power while cutting down on overhead costs.

combatmedic wrote:There has to be some kind of trade off for taking 9 fex's though. If I take 3 killakans in a squad and one of them gets immobilized, its dead. Granted I do get to ignore that stun and shaken results, and take 3 heavy support models in a single squad, I still have that one glaring issue hanging over my head. The biggest advantage in my eyes is that the fexs ignore all those rules, and now they are ignoring the biggest negative to taking 3 heavies to a single slot.

Am I worried about now being surrounded again by unbalanced nid armies like back in 3rd edition? Yea, but Im holding out hope that there will be a drawback and in the end just end up like the jaws of the world wolf: Something we all freaked out about but then played against it and found it to be completely useless to the enemy.

Or you could just take solace in the fact that your squad would be a third the points of theirs.

I'm still waiting for the Daemon second wave...

Don't forget that over-kill on one Carnifex would transfer to the other Carnifices, even if they're out of sight. Something I always found annoying about killing a Carnifex was wasting that spare Lascannon shot or two from my Devastators/Havocs: now those will spill onto the points spent on models in the same brood. Also, now they're more vulnerable to blasts if they come in groups of 2 or 3: a Demolisher Cannon blast might even kill one!

Therion wrote:

Moloch wrote:

Lukus83 wrote:I'm satisied. Will be getting loads of the new stuff asap.

And by the way...who is this Moloch fellow? I recognise the reference in his name, but how does he know all this stuff?

Uhhhh, not that I actually told something here....

So the Mawloc is some type of tribute to you? Mawloc is pronounced nearly like Moloch is it not, and you're GW's main Tyranid fanboy aren't you? Last time around I remember you having like 9 painted Carnifexes before anyone else even had the new model. Did you have a hand in creating the concept of the new creature? What about the actual rules?

I see no other logical explanation for the name. Mawloc has to be one of the dumbest Nid creature names ever designed, although the Venomthrope comes close. Which ones of the following simply don't belong: Harridan, Hierodule, Hierophant, Carnifex, Trygon, Exocrine, Haruspex, Mawloc, Venomthrope? The people who first came up with Tyranids don't work for the company anymore, or simply don't call the shots. It's just sad. What's next? Clawphant, Firedule, Killercrine and Speederfex?

Oh no, maybe Moloch is secretly a Soviet communist zombie returned fromt the dead to kill us all! I bet if you fold a five dollar bill a certain way it shows Moloch shaking hands with Stalin and handing him designs on a nuclear-fex! That's why they had commie secret agents assassinate the original writers of the codex, so they could change all the naming styles and somehow nuke America to win the Cold War twenty years after it's ended! Moloch, you fiend...

Redemption wrote:Well there's isn't really a seperate wing sprue, at best you'd get 4 Gargoyles without their Fleshborers.

I guess I should have looked for the sprue pics...

This makes me sad.

Though it makes GW happy, as I'm about to buy Gargoyle boxes just for the wings!

Grrr...

Kwosge wrote:

puma713 wrote:

Kwosge wrote:

puma713 wrote:

Neith wrote:

puma713 wrote:
Am I the only one who actually likes the Venomthrope? I can't wait to see what they've done to Lictors. One of my favorite units in the game.

I love Lictors (as far as the model goes), but the current rules prevent me from taking them seriously. All I've heard in regards to the new 'Dex so far is an increase back to 3 Wounds, and possible inclusion of Death Leaper.

There were some 'new' Secret Deployment rules posted a month or two ago but nothing's been said about them since so I'd take them with a grain of salt. But yeah, here's hoping Lictors will be worth using again!

^^ That right there is what keeps me from using them right now. I hate how they deploy. They used to deploy from Reserves and just come onto the board whereever you like them (like the Callidus Assassin) which makes them really nice. However, once they start scattering and possibly scatter onto troops (friendly or otherwise), they may mishap, since (and correct me if I'm wrong) the 5th Edition rules don't say friendly/enemy troops count as impassible terrain. If it said that, then the Lictor would move to just outside of them, but otherwise he mishaps. And that is just ridiculous to me. It's a biological assassin - what, it tripped over a tree trying to get to that squad of IG's? Please fix the Secret Deployment and I will be a happy bug.

Friendly and Enemy models +1" count as impassable terrain. It does say this in the rule book.

Where does it say that enemy models +1" count as impassable terrain? I see where it says the enemy models themselves say they are impassable terrain, but where is 1"?

In Codex: Tyranids 4th ed it says that Lictors must deploy in area terrain, can not be deployed outside of the selected area terrain and are not destroyed by landing in impassable terrain but "are placed as normal". The 1st one hurts Lictors because of 5th edition but the second two are their to make sure a Lictor will get off a first round charge.
Now, the second rule trumps the Enemy Impassable terrain rule because Enemy models are not area terrain so a Lictor can not scatter into them because doing so would take them outside the mandatory selected area terrain. The third rule says they "are placed as normal." Normal placing would be a mandatory dangerous terrain test.
Lictors can never roll on the Deep-strike Mishap Table because they can not mishap.

Lictors can roll on the deep-strike mishap table. Why? Because of the reason we just discussed. Enemies +1" are not impassable terrain. Enemies themselves are. A lictor can deep-strike 1" away from impassable terrain. They can deep-strike .01" away from impassable terrain. Lictors cannot deep-strike within 1" of an enemy model. Not because it is impassable terrain, but because you're not allowed to be 1" of an enemy model outside of assaulting it. You can fight and fight that you can't move within 1" of an enemy model unless you're assaulting, so it is considered "impassable", but good luck with that, since the book doesn't say that. Not even in Assaults when talking about moving within 1" of an enemy model. Now, since the Lictor can deep-strike 1" away from enemy models and not be in impassable terrain, what happens? It mishaps. Sure, on page 11, it says you may not move within 1" of an enemy model unless assaulting it. Where does that say impassable terrain?

Now some people will try to say that scattering into Impassable Terrain, specifically enemy or friendly models, would cause them to roll on the Mishap Table stating that you technically never scattered out of the preselected Area Terrain. If they argue this enough then just go with it. Why? If they roll "Destroyed" then Codex: Tyranids 4th ed says that can not happen so you get to roll your Deep-Strike again because that is "placed as normal."

The entry doesn't say that in the Rulebook. It says "are lost in the warp. . shot down. . or some suitably dramatic even occurs. The 4th Ed. book says "if the terrain is classed as impassable, the lictor will be placed as normal. That's fine. We're not talking about that. We're talking about mishaps. If you move within 1" of an enemy, you mishap. You're not being destroyed by impassable terrain. You're being destroyed by "warp. . shot down. . .some other, etc. etc.".

If you roll "Opponent Gets to Place It" then it must be placed in a "valid Deep-strike formation." The only place a Lictor can have a "valid Deep-Strike formation", according to Codex: Tyranids 4th ed is in that Area Terrain you selected.

Codex Tyranids doesn't say anything about its Secret Deployment being a valid Deep-strike formation. All it says is that it must deep strike into a piece of area terrain. A valid deep-strike formation would mean how the unit is placed, not where it is placed. The rule says that it can be placed anywhere. I'd be tempted to call a judge over. I also wouldn't be surprised if the judge ruled that it could be placed anywhere else on the board, but within terrain.

If you roll "Go Back to eserves" then it CAN count as being destroyed but Codex: Tyranids 4th ed says it can not be destroyed so it is "placed as normal." Re-roll your Deep-strike. So, you get a 2/3rds chance of redoing your Deep-strike and 1/3rd chance of letting your opponent select where the Lictor will be placed in the terrain you selected.

Again, you're applying logic to words that aren't there. The rules don't say anything about being destroyed by going back into reserves. It says that they cannot be destroyed by impassible terrain. Being placed back in reserves =/= impassible terrain. A mishap =/= impassible terrain. In fact nothing = impassible terrain but impassible terrain.

The more times I read the Lictor deployment rules the more I think that the way they were written in 4th edition really give the finger to 5th edition. You know, except for the whole you must take a dangerous terrain test.

Now, as other people have said, you're wrong about Lictor deployment in Codex: Tyranids 3rd ed. You preselect the area terrain and hope there is an enemy by it.

I haven't seen anyone say this. However, since you're going to correct me, perhaps I should clarify. What I was talking about was placing the Lictor, not having to Deep Strike it, like the Callidus. Right, you can't place it "whereever", but you can place it in any form of cover pre-deployment, then it acts as normal once it arrives. It's not a matter of deep-striking. In 3rd Ed., you placed it on the edge of the terrain and that's where it would be - so you could have a great advantage - after all, how many people choose the terrain in their own deployment to secretly deploy their lictors. You deploy them where you think your enemy might move, say a forest or a building, etc. In 4th, depending on the size of the terrain, it could be on the other side of the terrain piece.


I can't wait for the new codex to come out and fix Lictors. I even ordered a Death Leaper to go with my other three Lictors.

Also, Tyranids aren't bugs despite having 6 legs. They do not have antennae and do not have definable body regions so they would be a separate Phylum of animals. Interesting fact, Dinosaurs are also considered to be their own animal Phylum and are not considered Reptiles. However, Dinosaurs have been considered to never have flown or swam so the fliers and dedicated swimmers are considered Reptiles. If Dinosaurs were still alive today then we would have Fish, Birds, Mammals, Reptiles, Bugs and Dinosaurs and what ever else I missed.

Really? Are you this anal? I know that below it says you're bored, but does that mean you need to nit-pick about everything someone says? Yeah, dinosaurs weren't lizards, but Sauria, the root of its taxon means "lizard". Although they aren't lizards, that's what people called them. Yeah, Nids aren't bugs, but it's a colloquial name for them. What phylum are Orks in? Tau? I mean, since we're splitting hairs here.

TL/DR: Nothing really important in this post. I just got bored.

A nice way of trying to excuse yourself being a prick. Kinda like when you insult someone and then say "Just kidding." Like that erases it.

Thanks for lowering my expectations for DakkaDakka.

This.

^^ My comments above are in red.

Hey smarty please read page 13 in your 5th edition rulebook. Specifically the section, "Guidelines on categorizing terrain." Specifically the part where is says that enemy's are impassable terrain.
Page 11 on the big book says you can not move within 1" of enemy models. Page 13 callas Impassable Terrain as terrain that you can not move into.
The rule book calls enemy models impassable terrain twice in the rule book.

Codex: Tyranids 4th ed says that Lictors can not be destroyed by Deep-striking into Impassable terrain.

I didn't even read what you said past your crying about how illiterate you are and how you never read the core movement or terrain rules of 40k. Because you didn't read them I don't have to read the rest of your post because you're wrong. Enemy models +1" count as impassable terrain. It says that in the rule book. Lictors can not be destroyed by Impassable terrain but are instead placed as normal. The only valid place to put a Lictor, according to Codex: Tyranids 4th ed is in the terrain that the selected. Codex overrides Rulebook. This discussion is over.

:smug:

So, where does it say -specifically- without convoluted assumptions on your part that enemy models +1" are impassible terrain? Those words. Exactly. Because, once you hit assault phase, you -can- move into 1" of an enemy model. All of a sudden impassable terrain becomes passable?

Oh, sorry nevermind. This conversation is over because you say it is. Or maybe because you're wrong and you don't feel like backtracking. RAW = RAI, and where does it say that enemy models + 1" around them is "impassable"?

And I'm illiterate? I'm not the one not reading others' posts. I love when someone concedes to not discuss a topic anymore because "they're right" and "you're wrong". That's the way to win a debate. Cross your arms, pout and refuse to listen to the other side's point-of-view. How myopic.

:smug:

From Warseer:

New Images from the advertising brief:

Shot of a "typical" army:



Spore Mine Blister (nothing new):



Oh, and is this a codex page, I think so:



From the Product Brief:

"Codex: Tyranids contains a whole new set of creatures that are not yet covered by Citadel Miniatures. Enthusiastic players will want to create their own Tyrannofex or Tervigon with the help of the descriptions and images from the bestiary. (The product brief advises that) these can be assembled from a combination of parts of the Carnifex, Trygon and Tyranid Monstrous Arms Bitz Pack."

"Tyranid Warriors - Can be converted to an Alpha Warrior, a Tyranid HQ, which is ideal to lead a growing army of Tyranids or support a Hive Tyrant in its task. (The product brief advises that) you can combine the Tyranid Warriors kit with the new plastic Raveners to represent an Alpha Warrior."

"Trygon - Many parts of this kit are compatible with the Carnifex, enabling customers to create their own Tyranid monstrosities. In addition to the entry in Codex: Tyranids, there is also the option for Trygon with Ravener Brood 'Tunnel Swarm' formation for Apocalypse."

"Mawloc - Special rule is called 'Terror from the Deep' and it can 'smash defenses'." (This may just be flowery descriptive text rather than necessarily in-game function)

"Pyrovore - Are melee monsters that devour their enemies, beaking down the biomass of their victims and then transforming it into a powerful acid attack (in the form of a flamer template)."


Here is the best translation of what the semi-obscured Biovore sheet says:

WS 3, BS 3, S 4, T 4, W 2. ???????????

Equipment and Biomorphs

Hardened carapace, Claws and teeth

Spore Mine Launcher: Range 48" str. 4, Ap 4, Assault ?[assume 1], Large [blast]

*If after the first template in the ????[possibly barrage?!] [has been] determined, there are no enemy models within 6" of the [template, do] not resolve the attackbut instead place a number of spore mines equal to the number of biovores in the unit, in base contact w[ith each other] on the spot wher the central hole would have landed. T[he mines] follow the rules for spore mines detailed in the Living Brood [special rule].

Special Rules

Biovore

Instinctive behaviour-Lurk

Spore Mines

Living Bomb: Each spore mine is treated as an [individual] unit. Spore mines are always ignored for the purposes of [all] mission objectives. Spore mines are not subject to I[nstinctive] Behaviour, never go to ground voluntarily or ??? fall back. At the beginning of the Tyranid movement p[hase each] spore mine moves D6" in a direction determined by r[olling the] scatter dice. (Tyranid player chooses the direction if a hit [is rolled].

If a spore mine suffers a wound, touches an enemy mo[del, hits] impassable terrain or it ends any movement phase with[in 1"] of an enemy unit, it immediately explodes. Place the centr[al hole] of the large balst marker over the spore mine and resolve [it at] a strength 4 and ap of 4. Spore mines that drift off the [board or] into a friendly unit are immediately removed from play.

Spore mine clusters
Fluff about how spore mines don't always need biovores drop from sky (like last codex)

Orbital Deployment: Spore mine clusters are always deployed in the following manner. After both sides have selected their deployment zone but before any units are deployed, all of your spore mine clusters must Deep Strike onto the board. If any scatter off the board or into impassable terrain then the entire cluster is destroyed as described in the 1-2 result on the deep strike mishap table. After they have landed the spore mines in the cluster are then treated as individual spore mines as described in the living bomb rule.

Check out the thread here: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232545&page=69

Bless your socks, Mahu.

Kwosge and Puma, could you guys take your argument to PMs already? Or at least stop quoting each other in full every time you guys have to make a snide counter-point. Goddamn.

Back on topic:

As others may have mentioned, I find it interesting that firing a Spore Mine can be accomplished on the move, and that it's be upgraded to a Large Blast. I kinda like how when the Nids eat a lot of Orkz, they produce an organism that is built to wipe out Ork lists.

A cheap quality mobile artillery gun attached to a creature thats easy to hide and probably not all too expensive. The biovore got a hell of a lot better.

Yay Biovore is now remotely good! But they did get rid off the types of mines... o well.

3 large blst templates from a fully sized brood is just sick!

Lukus83 wrote:3 large blst templates from a fully sized brood is just sick!

Yeah, it's almost half of a valk squadrons output for what will probably be similar points, but on an easily killed slow infantry model with middling close combat ability and no way to deep strike, carry troops, scout, or flank. That's not to say they don't look good, they do, the valk and vend are just OP, so it's all pretty relative. A thunderfire puts out roughly the same damage a squad of 3 does. I like to think of them as mini griffins.

Well, I must say I was basing it on my own experiences. My main opponent is IG and he likes to blob his infantry. So for me this is pretty cool. Still don't like the models though.

Quick Question from a Non-Tyranid player:

Is Old One-Eye in the new codex?

Somehow he seems rather cool fluff wise to me, and maybe I'll buy his model for decorative purposes (my desktop would sure be pimp with a 'fex guarding it)

Old One Eye, Death Leaper, and the Red Terror have all been available from GW for a while. I haven't seen anything to confirm that the codex actually covers them or their rules.

Does anyone have solid leads here?

Many thoughts;

On names, many of the new ones seem unbelievably stupid but don't blame it on a change in the naming conventions away from latin. A few of the existing nids have names that are a combination of english and latin (hive tyrant, tyrant guard, raveners,) or just plain aren't latin (gargoyles) and I'm no expert but I think that biovore is some horrible mangling of greek and latin together.

More than that pyrovore keeps to the naming conventions and still sound stupid - mawloc, pyrovore and especially tyrannifex or tryfex or some of those other beasties with rules but not models. Venonmthrope I can live with.

New stuff;

Hive Guard look sweet. Love the pose, love the armour, love the eyes on the weapons and love the vague zoaty design. Multiple str8 shots that don't need los could be the solution to most of the Nids tank problems. IMHO nids SHOULD rely on MC's for busting heavy tanks (after all most other armies rely on short range melta weapons or p-fists) but they need something to bust light tanks at range (i.e. deal with mech) and lots of str 8 shots should do that if the range and BS is good enough.

Venomthrope - I have always liked units which are intended to buff others. KFF is a nice mechanic that will sync well with a nidzilla list. It looks like he might have feeder tendrils too and a ton of attacks. As for the model I love the concept (cthulu-esque gribbly with tons of tentacles) but the excution is a bit lacking.

Gargoyles - sweet! Massive conversion potential too. Garogyles have always been good ruleswise too so I expect a few in nid players armies.

Raveners - meh, they look like the warriors everyone was converting to me. I'm interested about the thorax guns.

Trygon - fantastic model! Hopefully this thing is hella expensive because if not a massive cc beast that moves like a beast is going to be a real problem for my orks and wolves.

Mawloc - crap name, looks like impressive rules (skyleap, hit and run and a grenade pack that is str 6 ap2? Welcome to the yo-yo-loc) but a horrible head. The actualhead itself isn't so bad it is the really poorely posed and incorporated spines that hurt it. Mabe a good paintjob will save the spines but I'd be tempted to just snip them off.

Pyrovore - great model although the gun is posed weirdly for a flame weapon (it should be lower). Not a fan of the name.

Tyrannifex, tryfex and all that other gak, stupid as hell names is all we know for now.


Old stuff with new rules;

broodlord - as a troop upgrade? Interesting, presumably this is how you'll get infiltrate for stealers now. Frankly I think genestealers are nigh on perfect as is so I don't know if they need a sarge.

warriors as troops - didn't see this coming but it certainly breathes a lot of life into the list, opens up more options and really buffs a nidzilla build. Scoring warriors finally give nids a decent unit to leave on a backfield objective (giving synapse to gunfexes, firing long range guns,etc)

tyrant guard - do they still exist or is it just hive guard now? I've heard conflicting things. A shame f they went away because the models are good.

Lictors - are the deppstrike rules fixed? Extra wound is nice but still doesnt fix them and now that slot is brimming with good options.

hormogaunts - deserved price cut

termaguants - no WON? I thought that was the rumour de jour.

Zoanthropes - as elites? Interesting, with hive guard, zoanthropes, venomthropes, lictors and pyrovores the elites section is looking decidedly cramped. I think these might be outshadowed by the two new dakka beasties in that slot and the ability to get more dakka as warriors are troops now.

gargoyles -get poison, fair enough. Rules are solid now so sure, go ahead.

Carnifex - 3 to a slot is just brutal, at least they have to all shoot at the same target. Improved BS was probably needed but makes me sad as Carnies missing was all that protected my orks in the past.

Biovore - yay they fixed spore mines! And suddenly it useful again. Then they changed spore mines to only one type which is not really that great. str 4, ap 4 makes it the ork killing gun really. Against anything else nid anti-infantry comes from their assault capabilities so the biovores are a fix to a problem nids don't have.



Overall I'm surprised how shooty nids are looking to be, it seems that between dakkaflyrants, hive guard (plus the zoes, pyrvovore in elites) warriors as troops, moving biovores and better shooting from fexes with more available the shooting ability of the army has dramatically increased. All those choices look nasty in cc too so you could build an army that moves well, shoots well and fights well, probably quite small though.

i'm also surprised that nidzilla doesn't seem to have gone anywhere. You can in fact get more carnifexes 9 in total and that in no way limits your ability to take other big beasties like hive guard, zoes or that pyrovore. Plus warriors are troops now! Meaning you can have multi-wound models for every choice in your list, a true nidzilla force. with the trygon fixing the speed issue of nidzilla and warriors fixing the scoring issue I don't think it is sticking around for the foreseeable future.

Tyranid "Black Boxes" are arriving in stores this week. They contain a Ravener sprue and the two Trygon/Mawloc kit sprues. I watched the Mawloc get assembled today. Cool stuff. Of course no Codex is in the Black Box due to a printing error that caused rejection of large numbers of defective books, but the release date for the book only got pushed back to January 16 according to the GW web store, so not a huge delay on release from the original target of the first weekend in Jan.

See a codex?

FoolWhip wrote:Old One Eye, Death Leaper, and the Red Terror have all been available from GW for a while. I haven't seen anything to confirm that the codex actually covers them or their rules.

Does anyone have solid leads here?

BotLS says that Death Leaper and Old One Eye are in, but Red Terror is not. Dunno if you consider BotLS is "solid".

Mawloc can be my Red Terror :'o

See a codex?

Codex preview is delayed due to massive printing error. No Codex in Black Boxes. Same error is why the release date for the book got pushed back to mid-Jan. from early Jan.

Sucks!

Codex: Tyranids contains a whole new set of creatures that are not yet covered by Citadel Miniatures.

Hooray for release waves!

That's right kids, soon* you'll be able to own your very own Tyrannovore, or Pyrofex, or Biotyrantfexovoretor! It'll be great.

*soon may not mean soon. Release date sometime between Q4 2010 and Q4 2110.

Enthusiastic players will want to create their own Tyrannofex or Tervigon with the help of the descriptions and images from the bestiary. (The product brief advises that) these can be assembled from a combination of parts of the Carnifex, Trygon and Tyranid Monstrous Arms Bitz Pack.

Aside from the ludicrously stupid names, I really do hope that all these non-mini Tyranids are buildable by kitbashes, and aren't going to remain perpetual 'Counts As' models until GW could be arsed making them.

Damn...this (news) sounds interesting, even though the names do not.

H.B.M.C. wrote:


That's right kids, soon* you'll be able to own your very own Tyrannovore, or Pyrofex, or Biotyrantfexovoretor! It'll be great.

So here's the plan: I am going to magnetize all the spare bits I have from my big creatures, then take a huge magnet, greenstuff around it and add spikes. Before the start of a game, I will place all the bits out and roll the 'torso' through and declare that my 'Biotyrantfexovoretor'

That's a great idea. You just have a box full of 'South' magnets attached to various limbs, heads and biomorphs. Then, you have your 'north' magnet as the torso, and just roll it around in the box. Whatever comes out is your new Tyranid Monstrosity.

Just stick every extra Tyranid bit you have into a pile of green stuff and call it the "Junkdrawerovore" or the "Potpourriofex" or maybe even the "Scrapheapodon" or "Bitzboxofex".

I wonder what happened to deathspitters that made them good enough to put on a Hive Tyrant.

Railguns wrote:I wonder what happened to deathspitters that made them good enough to put on a Hive Tyrant.

Every 10 generations the Norn Queens push this HUGE bio-pendulum that exists in the bellies of each Hive Ship, making all the good stuff bad and all the bad stuff good.

Deathspitters are now S+2, Ap3 Assault 2x blast. This is fair and balanced. Now tear off all those devourers and get with the program!

Railguns wrote:Deathspitters are now S+2, Ap3 Assault 2x blast. This is fair and balanced. Now tear off all those devourers and get with the program!

Finally they live up to their name. Never liked devourers anyway, they just looked like some sort of horribly diseased phallus. Not something that a bunch of sexually frustrated geeks need to be looking at. Now, bring on the big guns!!!

Railguns was being facetious.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Railguns was being facetious.

#*^(&***%$(+}$%^#@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is it okay if I wish I wasn't? 6 S7 or 8 ap3 blasts at 24" a turn from one set of guns on a Tyrant would be hilariously destructive.

I really hope his isn't the case since I have glued ALL arms in place. Thats 1 dakkafex, 3 sniperfexes, 1 winged tyrant, 2x scything talon tyrant and fex, 1 boomfex...along with all my warriors.

Please keep them all equally viable.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Codex: Tyranids contains a whole new set of creatures that are not yet covered by Citadel Miniatures.

Hooray for release waves!

That's right kids, soon* you'll be able to own your very own Tyrannovore, or Pyrofex, or Biotyrantfexovoretor! It'll be great.

*soon may not mean soon. Release date sometime between Q4 2010 and Q4 2110.

Enthusiastic players will want to create their own Tyrannofex or Tervigon with the help of the descriptions and images from the bestiary. (The product brief advises that) these can be assembled from a combination of parts of the Carnifex, Trygon and Tyranid Monstrous Arms Bitz Pack.

Aside from the ludicrously stupid names, I really do hope that all these non-mini Tyranids are buildable by kitbashes, and aren't going to remain perpetual 'Counts As' models until GW could be arsed making them.

I will try to be fair on this, Its not like bug fans didnt have lots new models in this Codex, by the contrary, so many kits I feel spoiled
Tyranid fans are most of the time heavy converters, so I think leaving some critters to our imagination is more than acceptable and extremelly fun.
Im fiddling with a kraken just for the kicks and will in due time handle one catachan devil and for sure the new incoming non produced buggers.

Saw the Trygon and Raveners in my local GW this evening.

Raveners - Meh. They're Raveners. We know what they look like and they're just slightly different versions of the old ones, but in plastic. I don't need any given I have 12 metal ones, but for someone who is bereft of Raveners, a plastic box is a good start (just don't be stupid and buy them directly from GW - save whatever money you can).

Trygon - Shorter that I first thought, but other than that totally totally awesome. Be careful of the little gribbly bits that go all over it, as they could break off if you mistreat the model. Otherwise, really cool. Took a look through the instructions and the Trygon Alpha has its own head - like a big scary angry normal Trygon head. Very cool.

Damn you H.B.M.C....I just spoke to my store manager and he has no idea when his boxes are coming in.

Lukus83 wrote:3 large blst templates from a fully sized brood is just sick!

Come on guys, you forget Codex: Tyranid 3.0 already...you know, when Biovores had 3 large blast templates that always wounded on a 4+ and insta glanced open top vehicles. Oh, and they were NOT barrage and Biovores were independant, so Biovores could slam 3 different units. I am glad that Biovores suddenly got usefull again .

And am I reading the part about spore mines not counting towards any mission objectives as also being indicative of not giving up kill points!

I think so...so no KPs, can't contest, etc.