Yesterday I got to look at some of the new WIP items for 2010 and beyond. A lot of it is already out there, (Ork Dreads). Some of it has been seen. I got permission to mention some of the items, but not a lot of specifics or specific release details.

* New GK Terminators 3ups (5 poses, 1 HQ/leader)
* New Daemonhunter/Witchhunter concept art
* New DH/WH vehicles/support
* New Ork dreads
* New Marine models for a specific chapter
* New SM concept art
* New DE models (these are sweet, and I'm not a DE lover)
* New DE concept art
* New Guard tanks/artillery
* New Necron MC sized model
* New Necron concept art
* New Ork vehicles
* New 40k concept art and 3ups tied to a future Codex release
* A lot of the Missions book tie in releases

Obviously a lot of this just strengthens rumors that are already out there. And some of it looks very rough, as in 3ups with lots of notes for changes.

I'm struggling to hold back and just dump specifics. There is one model in particular I want to talk about, but am unable, but you all will find that out soon anyhow, it's part of the Missions release, so news will spill out in due course.

I can only imagine the new Marine models refers to Blood Angels. I'd guess the new tanks and artillery for Guard are just the recut Chimera and Basilisk we've already seen, but you never know. New Grey Knights bodes well for the Inquisition to eventually get some love. As for the "3ups tied to a future release" this could mean anything. Given the fact that Dark Eldar are already mentioned on this list makes me think they're probably not Dark Eldar, but something else entirely. Wild speculation here, but maybe Inquisition? Opinions?

Edit for part 2:

I've seen loads of speculation on IG ST, but nothing in this batch. I've heard rumors of them being part of the Missions releases, but honestly it seems like there are more models than could possibly fit in a release with Missions...

To go back to prior rumors this is what I've heard/know about for the Missions release (and no, i cannot point out specifics I know of, to be safe here):

IG:
new style Chimera w/manticore option
new style LR with original+2 of the remaining variants
new style basilisk +medusa and one other variant
stormtroopers

SM:
new predator
t-hawk
ven dread
characters

Orks:
dread
buggy/trakk
copter
flashgitz upgrade for boyz
grot cannon in plastic w all options

Daemon/CSM:
plastic Greater demon
plastic nurgle warriors
plastic tzeetch flyers
plastic horrors
plastic/metal (conflicting rumors) slaanesh riders
characters
plastic csm upgrade sprues - god specific

Tau:
plastic crisis suit redo

eldar:
serpent/prism repack w plastic prism
plastic avatar redo (possible autarch, could be lost in translation)
plastic hvy/support weapons platform
plastic wraithguard

necrons:
plastic tombspider


So obviously not all this can fit in a march release. some of it is probably no more than fan rabidity/wishlisting. I will say not to expect more than about 6 new boxed sets to come out with the missions book. Possibly a few blisters as well.

Thanks for bringing that here, so we don't have to go there. (You know what I mean...)
Secondly, some of it does sound quite wishlisty, but we'll just see.
Third, plastic rules!

Edit: Ohhh okay. Thanks.

If the Rumor on The Plastic Wraithguard and Fire Prisim is true,That will be GREAT.

if the crisis suit plastics look like the FW ones I will be happy as a pig in gak.

Definition
scuttlebutt
1. (Slang) Gossip; rumor

No thunderwolf calv or wolves huh? Too bad, I was kinda looking forward to a second wave SW release.

Thunderwolf Cavalry and Wolves would be coming from Forge World, so...

warpcrafter wrote:Thanks for bringing that here, so we don't have to go there. (You know what I mean...)
Secondly, some of it does sound quite wishlisty, but we'll just see.
Third, plastic rules!

Trust me, I don't like going there anymore than you do. I suffer for the enjoyment of all you dakkaites

The guy this came from is apparently pretty reputable. Up there with Harry from what I hear.

sweet zombie jesus...a plastic tomb spyder! maybe now it will actually be MC size!

wait a thunder hawk that's AWESOME I'll buy five

T-Hawk? Hmm...

Look we need to talk , I know you think that we are going to get back together and Ill look all good and gak and treat you right but I am not going to. Its over between us move on.


Sincerely,

Dark eldar

PS:

Return my copy of Lord of the Rings the Two Towers Extended edition

I wonder why a new Predator would come out unless they just wanted to accomodate the Baal variant. As for plastic Fireprisms and Wraithguard, all I can say is hell yeah, finally. I can't believe it took them this long. Orks have needed new buggies for years.

I refuse to get excited about new DE until I have the new models and book in my hands. I don't care if they come out and show everything with designer notes and a handwritten apology from Tom Kirby, Jervis Johnson and Rick Priestley mailed to my house, I'm not going to acknowledge them as real until I feel the plastic in my hands. GW teases far too much.

H.B.M.C. wrote:T-Hawk? Hmm...

I bet you that they pull a Space Hulk with this one..

"No, it's not a Thunder Hawk, we promise!"

"Surprise! LOL

Oh btw we only have a limited #...until we find some in our warehouse. "

Railguns wrote:GW teases far too much.

Actually they tease far to little. If they teased a lot I'd have nothing to complain about...

In regards to DE they do at least. I'm still a bit cheesed off about Space Hulk, the 3-month release window, and how we knew more about the Space Marine releases in the Tyranid release window then we knew about the dang Tyranids. Weren't pictures of the Lost and Damned released before the Nid dex was official public knowledge?

These rumours about DE suck. We keep hearing scuttlebutt about them, certain community members have come out to reassure us that it's true, but the DE continually get pushed back with such frequency that Duke Nukem Forever is looking absolutely plausible.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Railguns wrote:GW teases far too much.

Actually they tease far to little. If they teased a lot I'd have nothing to complain about...

Hahahahaahhaahahahahahhaahah.

I almost cracked a rib laughing so hard.

Railguns wrote:I wonder why a new Predator would come out unless they just wanted to accomodate the Baal variant.

With BA being the next SM release, that would make sense.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if it's not actually a 'new' predator, but simply a recut sprue. Fewer parts, ala the Leman Russ, and (hopefully) remodelled, stronger sponson weapon mounts.


Meanwhile, Grey Knight 3-ups mean plastics... which is moderately interesting.

I would do MUCH for Plastic GK's of all kinds.

MUCH!

That and the rest of the releases means that the comparatively lackluster spell for my 'can't wait for this to come out' love-ins will be over

Heck yeah, new Necron stuff, let's also hope they get a new codex. Man though, orks seem to have all the fun lately!

The only thing that bothers me about this list is a lack of 2nd Tyranid wave figures.

Maybe it will be worth it to save up some money and see what comes out before I buy anything else for my army

No Killa Kanz, that's a shame.

insaniak wrote:

Railguns wrote:I wonder why a new Predator would come out unless they just wanted to accomodate the Baal variant.

With BA being the next SM release, that would make sense.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if it's not actually a 'new' predator, but simply a recut sprue. Fewer parts, ala the Leman Russ, and (hopefully) remodelled, stronger sponson weapon mounts.


Meanwhile, Grey Knight 3-ups mean plastics... which is moderately interesting.

Thats what I was thinking. The predator is a fine looking kit in itself that's consistent with the rest of the line, so the only reason for a "new" pred would be a recut and accomodating an assault cannon turret.

The Tyranids are going to need models for the Tyrannofex, Tervigon, and Harpy +some of the special characters unless they plan on banking on people using existing kits to make them. Otherwise Tyranids are pretty well covered beyond needing a new dang Biovore.

I wonder. If this list had Tervigons and Tyrannofexes and whatever else cool new `Nid stuff on it that's not coming out with the book, what would that do to people's buying habits right now? How many less people would not buy the kits to convert their own if they knew/thought an official kit would be coming out in the coming year?

Tervigon is supposed to be able to be constructed from leftover bits of the Trygon and Carnifexes.

I know, but it's strange for the "official" version of certain models being a kitbash. It's been that way before but GW is usually mute on the subject. This time they came right out and said "buy 2 $50 kits and make this". Does that mean they never intend to make kits for those units?

It probably just means they want you to buy $100 of kits now to play with it, and then have to buy a new $50 kit a year from now so it's tournament official.

I was going along with this thinking WOW! there are some great things coming out then I saw 't-hawk'. Now filed under 'fanboy wish list'...
Mick

H.B.M.C. wrote:T-Hawk? Hmm...

Missions => rapid insertion => t-hawk..... who could resist?

SM:
new predator
t-hawk
ven dread
characters

As above T-hawk

Also a plastic venerable would be fine but somehow interfere with FW...

And why do we see a "new" predator on this list?
More variants? For a specific chapter to be released then?

Damn,my heart beated faster when he said DE for the first 10 seconds and then i thought

"nah isn't gonna happen anytime soon"

No killa kans?

Can't wait for new buggies and cannons, though

OK, this changes my plans for this year army building.

GK army is prob a go now, scratch my Necrons in the fall.

5 Thawks are being grabbed when they are released.

My GF's Daemon army just got a bit larger if all these plastic kits come to light.

Railguns wrote:These rumours about DE suck. We keep hearing scuttlebutt about them, certain community members have come out to reassure us that it's true, but the DE continually get pushed back with such frequency that Duke Nukem Forever is looking absolutely plausible.

I heard it took them so long because everytime they saw a new privateer realease they thought: "wow, that's so awesome! We have to do that with Dark Eldar", and started from scratch. I also heard there's a new Dark Eldar trilogy on the way.

wuestenfux wrote:No Killa Kanz, that's a shame.

Indeed. Though we don't need them as desperate as new buggies and tracks.

Yet more DE rumors. Like most other people I'm not holding my breath, but would be nice if/when it ever happens.

New crisis suit!

I'm skeptical. Seems a tad too wighlisty.

Greets
Schepp himself

Little wishlist-like, but it'd be nice to see some of that. Witch Hunters and Daemonhunters are crying out for some plastics. I've just watched my brother putting together a WH army, and the number of metal models is crazy.

As for the Predator, it's a good kit but the sponsons need fixing- they're extremely fragile (to the point of I don't bother moving it on one of my Predators, feels like it'd snap instead of move). Even just adding a second sponson plate underneath, and making the central support bar for the weapons a little thicker would help.

But yeah, the only 'real' reason I can think of the Predator getting re-done is for BA release. While I doubt we'll see a 'new' Predator (a radical change would require an overhaul of all Rhino-based vehicles), it'll probably be a recut sprue, with extra weapon options (Heavy Flamer sponson options and Twin-linked Assault Cannon turret) to allow BA players to make a Baal.

Here's hoping it's true, I refuse to pay for a Baal Predator as is, the price is ridiculous.

Who is the source for all this exactly? GW haven't displayed greens of many of these things or made any formal announcement through their website or tradeshows. But they apparently don't mind inviting someone to look and giving "permission to mention some of the items" to people online.

Putting together a witch hunter army consists of gluing on the backpacks!

R3con wrote:Putting together a witch hunter army consists of gluing on the backpacks!

Until you get to the Exorcist ._. Why that needs to be so many metal parts is beyond me.

Neith wrote:

R3con wrote:Putting together a witch hunter army consists of gluing on the backpacks!

Until you get to the Exorcist ._. Why that needs to be so many metal parts is beyond me.

Hello, my name is Penny, Penny Tentengine, prepare to bleed for my construction and then cry as I collapse on frequent occasions once fully painted...

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Neith wrote:

R3con wrote:Putting together a witch hunter army consists of gluing on the backpacks!

Until you get to the Exorcist ._. Why that needs to be so many metal parts is beyond me.

Hello, my name is Penny, Penny Tentengine, prepare to bleed for my construction and then cry as I collapse on frequent occasions once fully painted...

All I can say is I'm glad I'm not the one collecting WH The Exorcist is one of the few models where I'd rather convert it myself (or even buy the FW kit).

Hmm, I just hope if the plastic GK turns out to be true, it'll eventually lead to plastic Sisters. Man I'd kill for some of those right about now.

Also the other half is desperate for a full sisters army, she just won't work with an army made up of 5 or 6 poses.

Extra Ork plastics are always nice though.



edit - Just been walking over at Seer, and found the thread in question, the actual poster is called Stickmonkey with 60 posts to his name, (doesn't mean he's making it up, but I'm always aware of low posters, big claims thing) but anyways, this is the most interesting thing I found him saying, it does seem even more wishlisting now, but I thought I'd share as I know theres a few folks here who are waiting for any info on this.

Also looks like there will be another Mystery Box style campaign later this year. But I honestly don't know what it will be...I asked about Warhammer Quest, and was told specifically that license is with someone else now. (hopefully FFG) So yall's guess is as good as mine.

Okay so now I'm gonna do a bit of wishlisting.. *slaps self* but I so hope this is right, FFG would re-release the game properly, with the warriors packs, expansions, if not extra new ones as well. Tbh that is the best thing that could ever happen to Quest, and the FFG aren't allowed to do plastics thing died with Horus Heresy, so hope is there.

Neith wrote:Until you get to the Exorcist ._. Why that needs to be so many metal parts is beyond me.

Neith wrote:
All I can say is I'm glad I'm not the one collecting WH The Exorcist is one of the few models where I'd rather convert it myself (or even buy the FW kit).

You realize the easiest/cheapest/plastic-est way to make an Excorcist is to use a Whirlwind and paint it "Sisterly" right?

EDIT:

Also, anybody think the falcon is super dead if they release a Wave Serpent/Prism box?

I often daydream about making the entire Eldar army multi-part plastic kits. Yes, I'm such a nerd I fantasize about multi-part plastic kits.

I'd love to get a plastic Manticore kit, the Forgeworld one doesn't seem to me to be worth its price, and as an older kit, I've heard it has its fair share of problems regarding fit and so forth. Chimera/Manticore, as mentioned in the big list on page 1, doesn't seem particularly likely to me, but I could see it happen, especially if IG also gets a Basilisk/Medusa/Whatever combo artillery kit (which seems probable).

Waaay too much of a wishlist for the most part.

New crisis suits? Crap, I just finished painting my 12th one; I don't need any more for my army.

wuestenfux wrote:No Killa Kanz, that's a shame.

well, he didn't see killa kans, but a little birdie mentioned them.....

nervous to see what "concept" they came up with for WH.

whitedragon wrote:
You realize the easiest/cheapest/plastic-est way to make an Excorcist is to use a Whirlwind and paint it "Sisterly" right?

Yeah, the only problem I have with that is that it'll look like a Whirlwind, not an Exorcist. The FW kit at least has a different looking launcher. Anyway, it's my brother collecting WH so he can put up with representing Exorcists

Also, just saw plastic Fire Prism on that list. When I used to collect Eldar, that was my main gripe. The prism cannon parts were so heavy that the flyer base couldn't take the weight.

InquisitorFabius wrote:OK, this changes my plans for this year army building.

GK army is prob a go now, scratch my Necrons in the fall.

Well I wouldn't quit the Necrons. I am guessing Necrons would be before Grey Knights. See I said GK, not Inquistion since the rumours are GK and SoB will be seperate from the Inqution now. So who knows what will happen to the Inquition now.

Nice! I must say I am pretty excited to see the "god-specific" CSM sprues, as well as plastic Daemons.

The new SM stuff IS most likely Blood Angels, and its good to see that GW is actually showing a little love for the few DE fans out there. Hopefully that is the new codex...

I expect any SM variants to be done as part of the Blood Angels release ala the Dark Angels vehicle sprue.

I would love to see Dark Eldar released but am not holding my breath.

If they DO have new tau crisis suits.. they could be used for my Tau Shas'O bodyguards ;p

This is just wishlisting but.... Would it not be the beez neez (old timey for win!) if they released a ork Kommandos/Tankbustas box in the line of the loota box?

1hadhq wrote:Also a plastic venerable would be fine but somehow interfere with FW...

Whether or not a release would bother FW has never been a consideration. The FW Tau Piranha, for example, was only out a comparitively short while before GW decided to include it in the codex and release a plastic model for it.

I suspect in a lot of case FW is used to 'test the waters' before splashing out with the expense of plastic tooling.

Neith wrote:Even just adding a second sponson plate underneath, and making the central support bar for the weapons a little thicker would help.

Looks better too, IMHO

Grimgob wrote:This is just wishlisting but.... Would it not be the beez neez (old timey for win!) if they released a ork Kommandos/Tankbustas box in the line of the loota box?

Regular Ork boyz come with tankbusta bomms and rokkit launchas in the box. As for kommandos, you can just use the burna gasmask heads and knives from the boyz box. I think it'd be pretty redundant.

insaniak wrote:

1hadhq wrote:Also a plastic venerable would be fine but somehow interfere with FW...

Whether or not a release would bother FW has never been a consideration. The FW Tau Piranha, for example, was only out a comparitively short while before GW decided to include it in the codex and release a plastic model for it.

I suspect in a lot of case FW is used to 'test the waters' before splashing out with the expense of plastic tooling.

Since FW does produce ven dreads for some time and isn't done with this line yet, plus actually announces a space wolf
and a raven guard dread, i have to disagree.

The baneblade/shadowsword and valks were pulled back/renamed or switched to upgrade kits.

As as "subcompany", FW is compatible in models and catalogue, not competitive with its " mother" GW....

Brother SRM wrote:

Grimgob wrote:This is just wishlisting but.... Would it not be the beez neez (old timey for win!) if they released a ork Kommandos/Tankbustas box in the line of the loota box?

Regular Ork boyz come with tankbusta bomms and rokkit launchas in the box. As for kommandos, you can just use the burna gasmask heads and knives from the boyz box. I think it'd be pretty redundant.

Wow, I could not disagree more. I would love a tankbusta/kommando box, I was just thinking that today in fact. Pulling bits and pieces out of other sets to kitbash is not the same as having a set.

1hadhq wrote:Since FW does produce ven dreads for some time and isn't done with this line yet, plus actually announces a space wolf
and a raven guard dread, i have to disagree.

That's the thing, though... If GW releases a Ven Dread, it'll be a generic one, or at best have a couple of variant Chapter badges. So there will still be a market for FW's Chapter-specific Dreads.

For that matter, unless GW's is identical to FW's, there would still be a market for a FW Generic Ven Dread anyway, since people like their variant models.


But even if there weren't, GW isn't going to choose to not produce a given model just because FW already has one.

insaniak wrote:
But even if there weren't, GW isn't going to choose to not produce a given model just because FW already has one.

I do doubt FW's independence a bit here, they would pull any identical kits off their catalogue like they did before
with IG kits.

So IMO, its the other way around. GW plans and FW obeys. A ven dread in plastic would interfere with any actual
"generic" FW dread. There is none of the rather prominent chapters left to cover without having the GW and the FW
kit to compete.

Until GW decides to cover those chapters they made shoulderpads for ( aurora, praetors, ....).

1hadhq wrote:

insaniak wrote:
But even if there weren't, GW isn't going to choose to not produce a given model just because FW already has one.

I do doubt FW's independence a bit here, they would pull any identical kits off their catalogue like they did before
with IG kits.

So IMO, its the other way around. GW plans and FW obeys. A ven dread in plastic would interfere with any actual
"generic" FW dread. There is none of the rather prominent chapters left to cover without having the GW and the FW
kit to compete.

Until GW decides to cover those chapters they made shoulderpads for ( aurora, praetors, ....).

You've got it backwards there.

Insaniak was saying that Games Workshop will, if they feel like it, make whatever they want--even if Forge World already has done it.

But point of contention: Forge World, while pulling the "basic" kits, have no qualms with doing variants. Look at the Basilisk for example. We've got the Vanaheim and Armageddon patterns--alongside the plain ol' Basilisk Lite.
If GW *were* to do a plastic Venerable Dreadnought kit, unless they actually flatout scanned in and included every single variation that Forge World currently makes...they'd let it be. They might make Forge World get rid of the Mk. IV by itself, but I don't see any reason for FW to lose the actual Chapter specific kits, especially given the level of detail on them.

Backwards?

Thougth i agreed that GW has the last say.

Could be the lack of specific info there tough.
A ven dread could be a deathcompany dread too, yes?

Maybe it's just a breakdown in communications.

We'll just say that: Forge World wouldn't do a generic Venerable Dreadnought if GW did one. That work?

I dunno about the Death Company bit though. We'll have to see about the Blood Angels' new codex to get an idea.

Slightly off topic here, but does the chaos pred have the same sponson problems as the loyalist one?

Since it's the same kit then I'd say it probably does.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

agnosto wrote:New crisis suits? Crap, I just finished painting my 12th one; I don't need any more for my army.

I don't care. I'll buy new ones to replace all of my old ones, and then buy about 6 more just because.

Although I regret saying that after seeing that they want to do another "mystery box" campaign. That kinda crap doesn't make me want to spend money on GW at all.

64mas wrote:Slightly off topic here, but does the chaos pred have the same sponson problems as the loyalist one?

The Chaos pred is a regular kit with an add-on sprue for spikey bits. So yes, it has the exact same problems with the sponsons.

Ok, thanks. :(

carmachu wrote:nervous to see what "concept" they came up with for WH.

All Sisters all the time!

Bye bye Ordo Hereticus!!!

Agamemnon2 wrote:I'd love to get a plastic Manticore kit, the Forgeworld one doesn't seem to me to be worth its price, and as an older kit, I've heard it has its fair share of problems regarding fit and so forth.

It has significant problems, not least of which is the fact that the main part that holds the turret to the Chimera hull isn't wide enough to go between the tracks, so you have to put extra bits of sprue and whatnot into the cavity to help prop up the top plate. Then there's the bad missiles, the terrible way they connect, the extra-flimsy missile fins that might as well be made of card-stock. Endless problems. But it's normal as the older FW models are virtually all terrible designs from a technical standpoint (aesthetically they're fine usually). The Manticore, and by extension the Hydra, fit into the same boat.

They do look cool once built though.

I dont care if they have to melt down every DE model to get the new BA book and models out..

Kirasu wrote:I dont care if they have to melt down every DE model to get the new BA book and models out..

BLASPHEMER! BURN THE HERETICAL EMO-MARINE-LOVING SCUM!

insaniak wrote:Meanwhile, Grey Knight 3-ups mean plastics... which is moderately interesting.

Not to burst any bubbles here, but 3-ups do not necessarily mean plastics. Almost all models are done in 3-up first, and careful re-reading in the first line of OP would reveal a hint that they will not be plastic.

Do not get me wrong, I would love plastic GK as much as anyone, but the realist in me figures it will be more along the lines of Ultramarines Veteran Squads, GW has done 3 different set up sculpts for the same unit, and I think any GK releases will be the same.

Cheers.

Lord Maleval wrote:Not to burst any bubbles here, but 3-ups do not necessarily mean plastics. Almost all models are done in 3-up first, and careful re-reading in the first line of OP would reveal a hint that they will not be plastic.

Nope. Metals are sculpted actual size. I won't say that all companies do it that way, but every one I know of does.

3-ups are only for plastic.

I thought with their new computer tech they didn't have to do 3ups any more?

I think they do both. Not up on the process, but I think the prototype is done 3-Up, allowing a 'hand finish' of details?

carmachu wrote:nervous to see what "concept" they came up with for WH.

Yup. Considering the last new Witch Hunter models created for the codex tended to be soem of the worse, I'm worried plastic base SoBs might be a little too far into the 'bondage nun' category.

So be it, I hope I am wrong about it, but stating "5 poses, 1HQ/leader" sounds less like plastic and more along the lines of what we currently have. "Poses" sounds very predetermined and static. Usually, plastics are referred to 'multi-part,multi-pose'. Then again, it is not like GW has ever releases pics or updates about minis that have never seen the light of day...oh wait, they have, pics of Kasrkin with shotguns and DE Haemonculi greens have been floating around for almost 4 years and nary a new mini in sight.

I will just file this under believe it when I see it.

Either way, Grey Knight Terminators are already some of the better models GW produces, so an update would hopefully look great.

Lord Maleval wrote:So be it, I hope I am wrong about it, but stating "5 poses, 1HQ/leader" sounds less like plastic and more along the lines of what we currently have. "Poses" sounds very predetermined and static. Usually, plastics are referred to 'multi-part,multi-pose'. Then again, it is not like GW has ever releases pics or updates about minis that have never seen the light of day...oh wait, they have, pics of Kasrkin with shotguns and DE Haemonculi greens have been floating around for almost 4 years and nary a new mini in sight.

I will just file this under believe it when I see it.

Erm, what?

You do realize that Terminators(of all flavors) come, 5 to a box right?
And that there are "5 poses, including 1 HQ/leader"?

It's entirely likely that, here, the label of "pose" was used inappropriately and refers to 5 different bodies to work from.

True enought that. Certainly for Fantasy kits, the legs and torso are being done as a single piece again (which is a mixed blessing. Great for ranking up, but makes conversions harder to achieve).

All I can really say is I hope they redo the Shadow Warriors and Alith Anar to be more like the description and cover art for Shadow King.

Enchanted bear pelt cloaks? Yes please.

Balance wrote:

carmachu wrote:nervous to see what "concept" they came up with for WH.

Yup. Considering the last new Witch Hunter models created for the codex tended to be soem of the worse, I'm worried plastic base SoBs might be a little too far into the 'bondage nun' category.

i may be speaking out of turn here, but I don't think that's the particular worry he's concerned about.

More like WH (and DH) are going to be 'reduced' to just Sisters and Grey Knights, for the most part.

The wonderful, glorious freak show that is the Inquisitorial Retinue is probably doomed, and probably some of the stranger troop selections as well...

BUT, given that GW has moved away from the extreme Jervishammer that was the Dark Angels, who knows?

Finding Shadowking quite heavy going meself. Think I'll have to re-read Malekith before crashing on any further. Quite confused as to the timeline!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
FINNALY!
-.-
Well at least they are finally getting rid of forge world because that makes people broke!
That and it will be less expensive. $50 for grey knights is stupid. hope they are finnaly getting a battle force. if so i'm going to buy it.
Hopefully they make Grey Knights All plastic. And up their Grand Masters because they suck right now. MORE GREY KNIGHT CHARACTERS!
how many characters do they have the inqusition 2? or 3?
Well any way i hope they finnaly come out with plastic stuff because metal hurts :*(.
Finnaly a Plastic ThunderHawk yeah! 100$ YEAH! wait nevermind.

I'll definitely pick up a plastic T-Hawk if its not ridiculously expensive. I like the interior detail the FW one has, but I'll gladly pass on it if it means Citadel can sell one at a reasonable price.

I'll pick up two if it comes with the parts to make a Thunderhawk Transporter.

1hadhq wrote:

insaniak wrote:
But even if there weren't, GW isn't going to choose to not produce a given model just because FW already has one.

I do doubt FW's independence a bit here, they would pull any identical kits off their catalogue like they did before
with IG kits.

So IMO, its the other way around. GW plans and FW obeys. A ven dread in plastic would interfere with any actual
"generic" FW dread. There is none of the rather prominent chapters left to cover without having the GW and the FW
kit to compete.

Until GW decides to cover those chapters they made shoulderpads for ( aurora, praetors, ....).

You do realise that Ultra-Marine, Space wolves, Black Templars, Dark angels, Red Scorpions, Raven Guard and Chaplain dreadnoughts are the only ones that Forge-World has done, there is a stupid number of chapters that don't have chapter specific Dreadnoughts; Salamanders, Fists (Crimson or Imperial), White Scars, Iron Hands. ( and these are only the founding chapters)

deitpike wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:No Killa Kanz, that's a shame.

well, he didn't see killa kans, but a little birdie mentioned them.....

Could you be a bit more specific, please.

If this is all true, I rejoice and my wallet weeps.

Neith wrote:

All I can say is I'm glad I'm not the one collecting WH The Exorcist is one of the few models where I'd rather convert it myself (or even buy the FW kit).

Many many other sister players did just that. I think John Swan had a neat conversion for one using old WW parts and immolator parts. I used that as a base and some typhoon launchers.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I thought with their new computer tech they didn't have to do 3ups any more?

The three ups are scanned and finished digitally. I believe only the newer vehicles are 100% digital.

Plastic wraithguard caught my eye, but it does seem a bit wishlisty...

NEW ORK DREADS!! I dont like the models at the moment. It better be plastic !!!!!!

Can you put a month on this? If its relatively early, i wont bother with my SM dread conversion, but i'll go ahead with it if its later on.

Flashman wrote: Plastic wraithguard caught my eye, but it does seem a bit wishlisty...

I'd love this too. Not only will they no longer have to be all in the same pose but it wont be £8 a model any more!!

Eldar Own wrote:

Flashman wrote: Plastic wraithguard caught my eye, but it does seem a bit wishlisty...

I'd love this too. Not only will they no longer have to be all in the same pose but it wont be £8 a model any more!!

Yes, £80 to field the 10 models necessary to make Wraithguard a troops choice. Of course at the rate GW's prices are going, they might well cost more than £8

Flashman wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:

Flashman wrote: Plastic wraithguard caught my eye, but it does seem a bit wishlisty...

I'd love this too. Not only will they no longer have to be all in the same pose but it wont be £8 a model any more!!

Yes, £80 to field the 10 models necessary to make Wraithguard a troops choice. Of course at the rate GW's prices are going, they might well cost more than £8

Ha!

Yes, I don't think it would be a stretch to see Plastic Wraithguard in a box of 5 for $50.

No stretch at all, actually...

Well i hope they come out with a plastic Warhound Titan some day : )

I do notice that there's no more mention of the plastic Thunderbolt and Rough Riders.

Asherian Command wrote:Well i hope they come out with a plastic Warhound Titan some day : )

You, me and a whole lot of other people too, I think!

It would sell way, way more than a plastic Thunderhawk too...

So if you were me would you still plan on scratch building a couple of Manticores? is it that close to their release, or are we talking March or later?

5 for $50 is still a damn sight better than the $20 per model Wraithguard go for these days.

Asherian Command wrote:Well i hope they come out with a plastic Warhound Titan some day : )

The only reason I haven't bought a Forgeworld one (or started a new army) is that I'm hoping a plastic one comes out in the next few years. Then I can start my Titan Legion

carmachu wrote:

Neith wrote:

All I can say is I'm glad I'm not the one collecting WH The Exorcist is one of the few models where I'd rather convert it myself (or even buy the FW kit).

Many many other sister players did just that. I think John Swan had a neat conversion for one using old WW parts and immolator parts. I used that as a base and some typhoon launchers.

Wow Carmachu, now THAT is a blast from the past!!! But yeah, back when GW had a much stronger "hobbyist" bend, they put the Exorcist conversion I did with one of the old Immolators and old Whirlwindsd up on the Mail Order page and you could order the all the bits for the conversion with one code.

But I also know a lot of folks weren't happy with the conversion since they thought it looked too much like a Whirlwind. I, of course, disagree but what are you gonna do?

Vale,

JohnS

Railguns wrote:5 for $50 is still a damn sight better than the $20 per model Wraithguard go for these days.

Ouch!

I had no idea that what they cost these days.

I bought mine a long, long time ago...

So, they are 'only' $15 each actually.

But still... ouch!

And then, you're right!

5 for $50 would be... great! (?)

3 for whatever the Ravener box costs now.

cool. New IG tanks!

cygnnus wrote:

carmachu wrote:

Neith wrote:

All I can say is I'm glad I'm not the one collecting WH The Exorcist is one of the few models where I'd rather convert it myself (or even buy the FW kit).

Many many other sister players did just that. I think John Swan had a neat conversion for one using old WW parts and immolator parts. I used that as a base and some typhoon launchers.

Wow Carmachu, now THAT is a blast from the past!!! But yeah, back when GW had a much stronger "hobbyist" bend, they put the Exorcist conversion I did with one of the old Immolators and old Whirlwindsd up on the Mail Order page and you could order the all the bits for the conversion with one code.

But I also know a lot of folks weren't happy with the conversion since they thought it looked too much like a Whirlwind. I, of course, disagree but what are you gonna do?

Vale,

JohnS

I actually did that exact conversion and it worked well....it went on the old-style rhinos, but I think it looks ok.
You had to use a little green stuff for some minimal gap-filling, but I think this was one of the better conversions for the Exorcist vehicle.

I saw the plastic wraith gaurd and peed a little I was so excited....then I saw the DE and cried a little to see them on the same list....

Hey everybody,

In the original post it says "items for 2010 and beyond". So all this cool stuff, like the IG stormtroopers and the Thunderhawks and the plastic sisters of battle.. they could come out in 2011 or could even be stuff GW has on there "Ill get to this eventually" list...

Does anyone have any sorta idea on when this stuff might get released, a few of the items look like there getting released when that mission book comes out.... but alot of this looks like sometime in the distant future...

Flashman wrote:Yes, £80 to field the 10 models necessary to make Wraithguard a troops choice. Of course at the rate GW's prices are going, they might well cost more than £8

Plastic is easier to paint, offers more opportunities for conversions, and the kits come with hundreds of bits! You should be on your hands and knees thanking GW for even thinking about making them in plastic, doesn't matter if they cost the same (or more) than the metals!

Alpharius wrote:Yes, I don't think it would be a stretch to see Plastic Wraithguard in a box of 5 for $50.

Nah, you think too small...3 for $45.

Asherian Command wrote:Well i hope they come out with a plastic Warhound Titan some day : )

Why? It'll cost the same as a resin warhound anyway.

Though I guess there's a lot of people who would be willing to pay the same price for a plastic one just because it'd be easier to get a hold of and put together...

Sidstyler wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:Well i hope they come out with a plastic Warhound Titan some day

Why?

Because putting together a plastic one would be a damn sight easier than putting together a resin one.

Or, to quote you:

"Plastic is easier to paint, offers more opportunities for conversions, and the kits come with hundreds of bits! You should be on your hands and knees thanking GW for even thinking about making them in plastic..."

Sidstyler wrote:It'll cost the same as a resin warhound anyway.

Like the plastic Baneblade costs the same as the resin one did? Or the Trygon?

No...

BrookM wrote:I do notice that there's no more mention of the plastic Thunderbolt and Rough Riders.

Yeah, I'm pretty bummin' about that myself. I'm not going to be holding my breath to do an Imperial Navy force now at least.

I don't know whether to be excited or meh. Yay new plastic tomb spyder, possibly monstrous size now. Boo all these rumors of GW rethinking Necrons in their entirety, fluff and all. Yay for new concept art which could mean a new codex is along the way sometime. /wrists for Jerkoff Johnson being mentioned along with Necrons and fluff.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:It'll cost the same as a resin warhound anyway.

Like the plastic Baneblade costs the same as the resin one did? Or the Trygon?

No...

So maybe I exaggerate a bit about their new pricing scheme...they only try to rip you off on the little models.

5 for $50 is still a damn sight better than the $20 per model Wraithguard go for these days.

Wraithguard are $15 US, not $20. That $15 price per model is still quite expensive, but not as bad as $20. Link here if you need proof.

So that list at the beginning of this thread has a lot of great stuff on it, but as was pointed out there a lot of it is probably just a wish list and not likely to happen in 2010. I'm waiting to see someone pare it down a bit to something closer to what we'll actually be getting in 2010.

BrassScorpion wrote:

5 for $50 is still a damn sight better than the $20 per model Wraithguard go for these days.

Wraithguard are $15 US, not $20. That $15 price per model is still quite expensive, but not as bad as $20. Link here if you need proof.

Well, they are 12,50 € in Germany (and Europe I guess), so that is 18.00$ actually. They are as expensive as the Raveners. So if they get bigger, Gw could shoot for that price.

Greets
Schepp himself

Wraithguard are AUD$25 here in Oz, yet are AUD$16 in the US and AUD$14 in the UK.

I'd love to know why we're paying 44% more for the same item in Oz as they are in the UK...

H.B.M.C. wrote:3 for whatever the Ravener box costs now.

Sidstyler wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Yes, I don't think it would be a stretch to see Plastic Wraithguard in a box of 5 for $50.

Nah, you think too small...3 for $45.

Ack!

You're both right!

IF we see Plastic Wraithguard, we'll most likely see them at 3 for $45...

Depressing.

Alpharius wrote:IF we see Plastic Wraithguard, we'll most likely see them at 3 for $45...

Or 3 for $20, like Stealth Suits.

It's possible.

Or $35 for a box of 5 w/plastic Warlock.

I guess if enough people resist the Goldswords, the Bestigolds and the, er, Raveners we MIGHT catch a break on plastic Wraithguard.

Maybe.

Alpharius wrote:I guess if enough people resist the Goldswords, the Bestigolds and the, er, Raveners we MIGHT catch a break on plastic Wraithguard. Maybe.

I'd be curious to know what sales have been on Greatswords. It is one of the few sets I've seen that does not seem to sell virtually at all at the asking price. The new Raveners are also incredibly expensive at 3 for $45 US and so are the Bestigor. I have a bunch of metal Bestigor I got cheap at GW's last ever public dented box several years ago, far cheaper than the projected cost of the new plastics and I won't be replacing them with plastic based on what we're hearing about the price of those. The question is will Tyranid players buy the new Raveners or will they resist them? I agree that if sales are sparse on sets like Greatswords, Bestigors and Raveners maybe we'll see less aggressive pricing on similar sets down the road.

Well that is why i haven't bought a single wraithguard yet.

BrassScorpion wrote:. The new Raveners are also incredibly expensive at 3 for $45 US.

Why are they expensive? I thought the 'old' metal ones were $15 each...so they are the same price and the new set comes with more options and an extra body (so with all of my bits I get a fourth ravener)?

Sheck2 wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:. The new Raveners are also incredibly expensive at 3 for $45 US.

Why are they expensive? I thought the 'old' metal ones were $15 each...so they are the same price and the new set comes with more options and an extra body (so with all of my bits I get a fourth ravener)?

Not only are they the same price but with more options but they are plastic which is a lot better than metal IMO. They'll be easier to assemble and convert. I'll probably add some to my upcoming army, after a Trygon of course.

Kurgash wrote:I don't know whether to be excited or meh. Yay new plastic tomb spyder, possibly monstrous size now. Boo all these rumors of GW rethinking Necrons in their entirety, fluff and all. Yay for new concept art which could mean a new codex is along the way sometime. /wrists for Jerkoff Johnson being mentioned along with Necrons and fluff.

The necrons need a re-write badly. Their fluff is contradictory in the extreme (the c'tan can't interact with the warp but eat souls, the necrons had greater than light speed interstellar travel but couldn't cure their cancer, etc).

BrookM wrote:Waaay too much of a wishlist for the most part.

I agree

ShumaGorath wrote: necrons need a re-write badly. Their fluff is contradictory in the extreme (the c'tan can't interact with the warp but eat souls, the necrons had greater than light speed interstellar travel but couldn't cure their cancer, etc).

The first one is contradictory, but i don't see how curing cancer relates to interstellar travel. It's entirely possible for a culture to put more research into one field of science than another. Yes, it's unlikely that an advanced civilisation would only have a level of medicine comparable to our own, but not directly contradictory.

In my opinion, the Necron Fluff doesn't need a reimagining, but it definitely needs a clean-up. Stuff about affecting humanities genetics 60 million (or is it 600 million?) years before the current timeline simply makes no sense, as the evolution of humanity would be impossible to predict or even affect so far in the past.

(ps, Shuma - This is the contradiction you should use for an example. If they can fiddle with our genetics to create the pariahs, 59 million, 950 thousand years before we evolve, they can modify their own genes to increase resistance to radiation and cancer.)

Vladsimpaler wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:T-Hawk? Hmm...

I bet you that they pull a Space Hulk with this one..

"No, it's not a Thunder Hawk, we promise!"

"Surprise! LOL

Oh btw we only have a limited #...until we find some in our warehouse. "

Quoted for truth.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Kurgash wrote:I don't know whether to be excited or meh. Yay new plastic tomb spyder, possibly monstrous size now. Boo all these rumors of GW rethinking Necrons in their entirety, fluff and all. Yay for new concept art which could mean a new codex is along the way sometime. /wrists for Jerkoff Johnson being mentioned along with Necrons and fluff.

The necrons need a re-write badly. Their fluff is contradictory in the extreme (the c'tan can't interact with the warp but eat souls, the necrons had greater than light speed interstellar travel but couldn't cure their cancer, etc).

Re-write the C'tan a bit, yeah. Keep the same image the Necrons have of soulless killing machines that are slowly waking up all over the imperium and harvesting the populace to feed their gods and maybe work in some new CC units, like flayed ones mixed with tomb spyder bodies, that would just be crazy as hell

Eldar Own wrote:NEW ORK DREADS!! I dont like the models at the moment. It better be plastic !!!!!!

Can you put a month on this? If its relatively early, i wont bother with my SM dread conversion, but i'll go ahead with it if its later on.

Smart money is on March - GW said they'd be releasing new Ork, Guard, and Marine kits with the release of Battle Missions.

Brother SRM wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:NEW ORK DREADS!! I dont like the models at the moment. It better be plastic !!!!!!

Can you put a month on this? If its relatively early, i wont bother with my SM dread conversion, but i'll go ahead with it if its later on.

Smart money is on March - GW said they'd be releasing new Ork, Guard, and Marine kits with the release of Battle Missions.

Brilliant!! Thanks Brother SRM. I've heard of the battle missions release. I may still do a conversion though, it'll be cool to have a fully converted model.

Eldar Own wrote:

Sheck2 wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:. The new Raveners are also incredibly expensive at 3 for $45 US.

Why are they expensive? I thought the 'old' metal ones were $15 each...so they are the same price and the new set comes with more options and an extra body (so with all of my bits I get a fourth ravener)?

Not only are they the same price but with more options but they are plastic which is a lot better than metal IMO. They'll be easier to assemble and convert. I'll probably add some to my upcoming army, after a Trygon of course.

And this is why GW is charging high prices for their plastics because they know many people will buy them no matter what. Yes they are in plastic, but they should be so much cheaper than what GW is charging for. GW have said numerous time, when then can do things in plastic, the prices will be so much cheaper, instead of just saving pennies. We are saving what? $5 or so than buying 3 individual metals. It's just price gouging, and price gouging just pisses me off. Not shure if I will be getting them or not.

Davor wrote:

Eldar Own wrote:

Sheck2 wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:. The new Raveners are also incredibly expensive at 3 for $45 US.

Why are they expensive? I thought the 'old' metal ones were $15 each...so they are the same price and the new set comes with more options and an extra body (so with all of my bits I get a fourth ravener)?

Not only are they the same price but with more options but they are plastic which is a lot better than metal IMO. They'll be easier to assemble and convert. I'll probably add some to my upcoming army, after a Trygon of course.

And this is why GW is charging high prices for their plastics because they know many people will buy them no matter what. Yes they are in plastic, but they should be so much cheaper than what GW is charging for. GW have said numerous time, when then can do things in plastic, the prices will be so much cheaper, instead of just saving pennies. We are saving what? $5 or so than buying 3 individual metals. It's just price gouging, and price gouging just pisses me off. Not shure if I will be getting them or not.

Isn't oil more expensive per pound than metal?

ShumaGorath wrote:

Isn't oil more expensive per pound than metal?

Even if plastic would be more expensive, plastic models weight much less than metal ones

ergotoxin wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Isn't oil more expensive per pound than metal?

Even if plastic would be more expensive, plastic models weight much less than metal ones

Your right, I should of used a volume measurement.

Tin is just shy of ~8 dollars a pound right now, pewter is primarily tin. Oils hanging around 80 dollars a barrel (I can't find how much a barrel weighs, but I get the feeling it's more than 80 pounds). It'a ll kind of academic though, I can't seem to find the direct cost of plastics or pewter so I have no idea.

ShumaGorath wrote:

ergotoxin wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Isn't oil more expensive per pound than metal?

Even if plastic would be more expensive, plastic models weight much less than metal ones

Your right, I should of used a volume measurement.

Tin is just shy of ~8 dollars a pound right now, pewter is primarily tin. Oils hanging around 80 dollars a barrel (I can't find how much a barrel weighs, but I get the feeling it's more than 80 pounds). It'a ll kind of academic though, I can't seem to find the direct cost of plastics or pewter so I have no idea.

From wiki: * Oil barrel: 42 US gallons, 158.9873 litres,[6] or 34.9723 Imperial (UK) gallons

If I count right oil should be a lot cheaper than pewter, but on the other side we have no idea about the costs of oil procession and plastic production. So I guess we should better get back on topic

while i agree that plastic minis *should* be cheaper than metal equivalents (and GW used to agree as this was one of their big metal to plastic conversion selling points), i'm not sure comparing the prices of oil in a barrel (which needs to be highly processed to get to the polystyrene plastic we actually see in the end product) and pewter (which is just poured into a mold and spun) is helpful. technically, the big rock outside my window and the kitchen countertop are made of the same thing but that doesn't meant that they have anything close to a same relative worth.

warboss wrote:while i agree that plastic minis *should* be cheaper than metal equivalents (and GW used to agree as this was one of their big metal to plastic conversion selling points), i'm not sure comparing the prices of oil in a barrel (which needs to be highly processed to get to the polystyrene plastic we actually see in the end product) and pewter (which is just poured into a mold and spun) is helpful. technically, the big rock outside my window and the kitchen countertop are made of the same thing but that doesn't meant that they have anything close to a same relative worth.

Good point, perhaps this is a better cost comparison, a bag of plastic army men cost around $2.00 and usually contains 50 soilders,and are roughly the same size as your average 40k troop choice,wich comparitivly cost between $25.00 and $35.00 a box,containing 10 minis,now of course their exsist some qaulity differences,design diffences and such.
But if we are to look at the simple raw materials and amounts used,surely GW is marking their prices WAY up.

FITZZ wrote:Good point, perhaps this is a better cost comparison, a bag of plastic army men cost around $2.00 and usually contains 50 soilders,and are roughly the same size as your average 40k troop choice,wich comparitivly cost between $25.00 and $35.00 a box,containing 10 minis,now of course their exsist some qaulity differences,design diffences and such.

'Some' quality differences is understating it somewhat.

GW is paying for design, sculpting, mould-making, and casting of multi-part, highly detailed plastic kits, which has to pay for itself over a comparatively short lifespan before being replaced by the next hotness.
The company producing your bag of plastic army men is (in most cases) paying for the casting (in China or Taiwan) of a single-part sculpt that was originally made in the 1970's, by either buying out the moulds from the last company to produce them, or simply grabbing a pack of a competing company's soldiers and making a mould off them. No expensive design or sculpting stage, minimal production costs, cheaper material (since they use a lower-grade plastic), cheaper packaging, and no promotional costs.


Miniatures' value is down to far more than just the cost of the materials.

I understand your points Insaniak,and agree with most of them.
My initial point was simply concerning material cost,and true the makers of "little green army men" do use a lower grade plastic and of course that is reflected in the super low cost.
However,the direction of previous post seemed to be that of cost of raw materials,and when that is the factor taken into account (GWs packaging and promotional cost not withstanding) I still can't help but belive that their kits,no matter how nice,are just a tad pricey.

So has anyone any idea what is involved in 'plastic crisis suit redo'?

Are they going to release the forgeworld crisis suits in plastic (come oooooon hazard suit) or add more components to the kit or recast the entire crisis suit or simply add in another one or two special chars?

Hopefully it's an across the board overhaul, i'm sick to death of cutting and greenstuffing the knee joints...

Firstly: If we're going to see "plastic Crisis suit redo", it wouldn't be the Hazard suit...unless they add the Hazard suit into the main codex as a Commander/Bodyguard option.

Most likely? We'll either see a rerelease of the Commander box, with the special issue weapons done in plastic
OR
We'll see a scanned, plastic CAD version of the XV-89 and its variants.

My fingers are crossed for the second. The XV-89 is gorgeous and makes me want to do Tau everytime I see it.

Hopefully it will be based on one of the actual pieces of concept artwork, all of which are better than what they decided on. Or at least it will hopefully have proportions that actually follow the art in the codex.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Kurgash wrote:I don't know whether to be excited or meh. Yay new plastic tomb spyder, possibly monstrous size now. Boo all these rumors of GW rethinking Necrons in their entirety, fluff and all. Yay for new concept art which could mean a new codex is along the way sometime. /wrists for Jerkoff Johnson being mentioned along with Necrons and fluff.

The necrons need a re-write badly. Their fluff is contradictory in the extreme (the c'tan can't interact with the warp but eat souls, the necrons had greater than light speed interstellar travel but couldn't cure their cancer, etc).

Why do people keep saying the c'tan eat souls? Nowhere in the fluff does it state that, and in fact states the exact opposite, that when the C'tan consume life the souls are cast adrift in the warp, making a feast for random warp entities. The c'tan know nothing, and care nothing of souls.

ShumaGorath wrote:Hopefully it will be based on one of the actual pieces of concept artwork, all of which are better than what they decided on. Or at least it will hopefully have proportions that actually follow the art in the codex.

Ditto that. I love crisis suits, but the current ones are much too squat and blocky.

Why are they expensive? I thought the 'old' metal ones were $15 each...so they are the same price and the new set comes with more options and an extra body (so with all of my bits I get a fourth ravener)?

Incorrect. The current ones are $20 each in blisters, so the new ones are less expensive. However, some of us might consider any model that you want many of in order to make large units expensive at $15 or $20 each.

Additionally, if Wraithguard are considered expensive at $15 each, why wouldn't Raveners be considered expensive at $15 each? It's all relative. What's expensive to one person may not be to another, but in general as you can see from other posts here, many hobbyists consider models that are purchased in quantity for squads to be quite expensive if they are $15 or $20 each. In fact, depending on the models, some things that are considerably less expensive are considered too expensive by a large number of hobbyists, like the Greatswords mentioned earlier. It depends on the models and the general conscensus of the hobby community, doesn't it?

Why do people keep saying the c'tan eat souls? Nowhere in the fluff does it state that, and in fact states the exact opposite, that when the C'tan consume life the souls are cast adrift in the warp, making a feast for random warp entities. The c'tan know nothing, and care nothing of souls.

People just assume souls because "life energy" is an utterly idiotic concept when separated from the concept of the warp or souls.

I think we got the point there BrassScorpion (JK)

The c'tan know nothing, and care nothing of souls.

Yeah, and Superman is better than Batman and Kirk is better than Picard. Honestly, what does this "nerd fight" over background material have to do with news and rumors about new models in 2010?

BrassScorpion wrote:

The c'tan know nothing, and care nothing of souls.

Yeah, and Superman is better than Batman and Kirk is better than Picard. Honestly, what does this "nerd fight" over background material have to do with news and rumors about new models in 2010?

Not a heck of a lot.

This 'rumor' had a lot of wishlisting in it to begin with.

Please keep this rather thin reed on topic...

Schepp himself wrote:I'm skeptical. Seems a tad too wishlisty.

Greets
Schepp himself

I would say that you'd be very wise here.

I'm sure the OP has/had the best of intentions, but I don't think most. much even, of this is happening, at least not in the timeframe suggested. Especially things like the plastic T-Hawk.

That said I'd be amazed if GW didn't find another use, perhaps, for that swanky new largeer base they've put in with the Trygon and the Valkyrie.

There's often a big difference as well between seeing -- on a day when the design studio was closed for the Xmas holidays-- concept art and this leading to an imminent release. For example the concept and design work for the plastic baneblade was up and on display in the design studio for ove 1 year before that was finally released. And it's not uncommon for it to be 18 months or so from a 3 up or deign being finished and actual production starting of the model.

That said some of the claims about some of the DE stuff-- cylon raideresque jetbikes and so forth definately sounds true, tallies with snippets I and a few others here and there have seen over time too. Very much along the work and feel of the dark eldar as dedpicted in the 5th edition rulebook and in the Liber Chaotica -- which is where you'll see some of the design sketches for the new wyches.

I find it as annoying as everyone else that GW are so tight lipped about things... there is some, quiet, talk about this chnaging slightly -- witness the.. 3 or 4 month early announcement of the battle missions book, and those of you ( in the UK anyway) with a GW store will have seen the unreleased 5 or so Legion of the Damned on the instore computer terminals screen saver ( including the one with the damaged or open helm with the skull bit underneath) which should roll out later this year as well ( March again maybe ? ). And their long standing trick of hiding things in open sight -- bastions, landing pads, plastic satutues and so forth. But anything beyond the sequence of Beasts, Battle missions, Blood Angels and Ogres is dubious IMO.

Are Ogres confirmed now, then, reds8n?

reds8n wrote:I find it as annoying as everyone else that GW are so tight lipped about things... there is some, quiet, talk about this chnaging slightly -- witness the.. 3 or 4 month early announcement of the battle missions book, and those of you ( in the UK anyway) with a GW store will have seen the unreleased 5 or so Legion of the Damned on the instore computer terminals screen saver ( including the one with the damaged or open helm with the skull bit underneath) which should roll out later this year as well ( March again maybe ? ). And their long standing trick of hiding things in open sight -- bastions, landing pads, plastic satutues and so forth. But anything beyond the sequence of Beasts, Battle missions, Blood Angels and Ogres is dubious IMO.

The rest of the LotD will be released this February according to the blurb in the January WD.

BrookM wrote:

reds8n wrote:I find it as annoying as everyone else that GW are so tight lipped about things... there is some, quiet, talk about this chnaging slightly -- witness the.. 3 or 4 month early announcement of the battle missions book, and those of you ( in the UK anyway) with a GW store will have seen the unreleased 5 or so Legion of the Damned on the instore computer terminals screen saver ( including the one with the damaged or open helm with the skull bit underneath) which should roll out later this year as well ( March again maybe ? ). And their long standing trick of hiding things in open sight -- bastions, landing pads, plastic satutues and so forth. But anything beyond the sequence of Beasts, Battle missions, Blood Angels and Ogres is dubious IMO.

The rest of the LotD will be released this February according to the blurb in the January WD.

actually it said they'd be shown in febuary not released.

Still, Beastmen, Blood Angels and Ogres are not really the releases at (or even near) the top of most people's wish lists.

Let us hope the Battle Missions releases and the latter part of 2010 will make up for this.

TBD wrote:Still, Beastmen, Blood Angels and Ogres are not really the releases at (or even near) the top of most people's wish lists.

Let us hope the Battle Missions releases and the latter part of 2010 will make up for this.

Agreed!

It IS odd, especially with all of the really depressing stuff we're hearing about the quality of the Beasts miniatures and army list...

The Games Workshop Newsletter 01.01.2010
In this issue: Out Now: Legion of the Damned

Out Now: Legion of the Damned

The Legion of the Damned are considered by some to be an extension of the Emperor's superhuman will and by others as the vengeful and immortal spirits of fallen Space Marines. Damned Legionnaires fight with a chill precision few mortal warriors can match and make powerful additions to a Space Marine army.
Legion of the Damned Legion of the Damned The Legion of the Damned are an Elite Space Marine unit who can always Deep Strike and whose 3+ saving throw is invulnerable. This set contains five Damned Legionnaires including a menacing looking Sergeant.
Damned Legionnaires 1 Damned Legionnaires 1 This pack of two Damned Legionnaires with boltguns is ideal for adding extra members to your Legion of the Damned squad. Damned Legionnaires 2 Damned Legionnaires 2 Add additional members to your Legion of the Damned squad with this set of two Damned Legionnaires armed with boltguns.
Damned Legionnaire with Heavy Flamer Damned Legionnaire with Heavy FlamerWith two attacks each Damned Legionnaires make excellent assault troops. Thin out the enemy, before closing for the kill, with this heavy flamer. Damned Legionnaire with Multi-Melta Damned Legionnaire with Multi-Melta Add some mobile heavy firepower to your Legion of the Damned squad - order a Damned Legionnaire with multi-melta.
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I have a feeling that the "Plastic Greater Demon" would actually be the "Plastic Demon Prince" which they are sittin gon for reasons unknown.

As talked about before...

Huh. Great-looking LotD, but the skull on that last one looks more like an ornament than his real skull - eyelense, size etc...

Ohohoho, do I ever want me those left-handed freaks. Nice, bloody good show!

Being left-handed is actually a Cursed Founding thing

Matt Ward, WD361, PG44 at the top wrote: We did think about having exposed hands and even cracked of open helmets, but realised that would undermine the sense of mystery; we didnt want to reaveal who or what is under the armour- if ther is anything at all

So why has one (on the left of reds8n's last pic) got a cracked open helmet reavealing a skull ??

twistinthunder wrote:

BrookM wrote:

reds8n wrote:I find it as annoying as everyone else that GW are so tight lipped about things... there is some, quiet, talk about this chnaging slightly -- witness the.. 3 or 4 month early announcement of the battle missions book, and those of you ( in the UK anyway) with a GW store will have seen the unreleased 5 or so Legion of the Damned on the instore computer terminals screen saver ( including the one with the damaged or open helm with the skull bit underneath) which should roll out later this year as well ( March again maybe ? ). And their long standing trick of hiding things in open sight -- bastions, landing pads, plastic satutues and so forth. But anything beyond the sequence of Beasts, Battle missions, Blood Angels and Ogres is dubious IMO.

The rest of the LotD will be released this February according to the blurb in the January WD.

actually it said they'd be shown in febuary not released.

WD361, PG45 wrote: Even more damned Legionaires stand ready to protect the Imperium. Six more models will be revealed in next month's white dwarf

I think this means they will be shown along with a release date (probably march) in the next months WD so im not sure if they will be realeased in February.

BrookM wrote:The rest of the LotD will be released this February according to the blurb in the January WD.

w00t! Lost ond the Damned are coming!

What...

Oh never mind then...

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

BrookM wrote:The rest of the LotD will be released this February according to the blurb in the January WD.

w00t! Lost ond the Damned are coming!

What...

Oh never mind then...

Every time I misread LotD, I get the same feeling.

I've just looked at the GW website. You can advance order the new Leiogenaires from today onwards. They will be shipped to you at the start of February (i was wrong!!!). Theyre at the bottom.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=7200001a

oh hell yeah:

plastic crisis suit redo

plastic avatar redo (possible autarch, could be lost in translation)

plastic wraithguard

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

BrookM wrote:The rest of the LotD will be released this February according to the blurb in the January WD.

w00t! Lost ond the Damned are coming!

What...

Oh never mind then...

I saw it this way too. :(

It's too bad the regular marine models don't get poses as dynamic as those legion models.

2x different flamer marines for LoD ?

Seems i did well in rearming one with a melta.....

ShumaGorath wrote:It's too bad the regular marine models don't get poses as dynamic as those legion models.

I dunno, I find that a variety of dynamic poses can be achieved with trivial conversion work. The Space Marine plastic line is really quite adaptable, especially once you start mixing in parts from Devastator and Assault Marine kits.

I really love the LOTD with the half skull and helmant. WOOT post 1k!!

I hate that you have to buy a Beaky guy for every non-Beaky guy you get. I don't like beaky helms! Stop forcing them on me!

Those new Legion models are really nice. I just don't see them getting bought, given how awful their rules are though :(

Brother SRM wrote:Those new Legion models are really nice. I just don't see them getting bought, given how awful their rules are though :(

Well that and the price tag is what, $100 for a squad of 10?

Aduro wrote:I hate that you have to buy a Beaky guy for every non-Beaky guy you get. I don't like beaky helms! Stop forcing them on me!

I bet you'd get great resale value as there's a lot of beaky lovers out there...

carmachu wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:Those new Legion models are really nice. I just don't see them getting bought, given how awful their rules are though :(

Well that and the price tag is what, $100 for a squad of 10?

the price tag is just the same as any other metal space marine model.

Goliath wrote:

carmachu wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:Those new Legion models are really nice. I just don't see them getting bought, given how awful their rules are though :(

Well that and the price tag is what, $100 for a squad of 10?

the price tag is just ridiculous.

Fixed your typo

Sweet. Dude. The new batch of Legion of the Damned is even better than the original batch, with new Sergeant being my favourite. It's a blessing that I don't actually play 40k. I can enjoy great models without having to worry about rules.

Dysartes wrote:Are Ogres confirmed now, then, reds8n?

My sources give me a big 'negatory' on OK coming soon.

TBD wrote:Still, Beastmen, Blood Angels and Ogres are not really the releases at (or even near) the top of most people's wish lists.

Let us hope the Battle Missions releases and the latter part of 2010 will make up for this.

I may not be "most people" but that's batting .666 for my own, personal, wish lists since I have both Blood Angels and Beastmen and both have some issues with their current books...

Vale,

JohnS

I'm with cygnnus. I'm looking forward to Beastmen and Ogres, and I know quite a few people who are highly anticipating them.

Ogres would actually get me playing WFB, always loved the Core models, but the heroes and lords just don't seem right to me. Here's hoping for some new choices when they're released.

I know I will be picking up two new armies in '10.

Beastmen to compliment my Mortal Chaos force and GK/Necrons barring which gets done.

The OP ( Mr. Stickmonkey) made a new post relating to this ..

So in discussion today a few new things came up. Treat as rumors, as this source does not have direct information.

Missions Book
* New units for SM, Orks, Chaos/CSM, and IG re-confirmed. No other love.

Inquisition
* All inquisition units to get new models...eventually
* Codex: Inquisition to combine all orders of =I=
* GK being focused on for release, Sisters 2nd wave
* No allies, but indoctrinated units will include choices from other Imperial armies
* No faith points
* Lots of Psychic Nullification
* Lots of Ignore Invul
* Another flyer/transport kit Valkyrie-sized being planned for release
* GK models may see light of day early tied into another product release. (commentary: I hear rumors of a Space hulk expansion being planned, but they are vague and disorganized, so much salt needed here)
* Release window is not 2010 for C:I
* Imperial Assassin now a single unit, culdex, Caladeus, etc all gone. Unit will have numerous lethal options. Very Expensive.

Dark Eldar
* GW would like to try opposing armies back to back... (commentary: DE/E? Who are DEs biggest opposition?)
* While most models are "final" the sprue designs are not started for some...aka we still have a manufacturing ramp up
* New units heavy in FA FOC

Necrons
* Likely last Codex before 6th Ed. (commentary:i.e. dont hold your breath)
* Complete overhaul
* Some chance of early plastics in 2011 for existing units that need them...but design changes may preclude. (commentary: i.e. dont count on any new models until the Codex release.)
* Much more "Immortal" theme, less "Terminator" (commentary: I took this to mean more organic based and asked, and was told "no, not organic, they will still be undying machines")

Sounds about right for the battle missions book .. little hmm about a CSM release.. but if this includes the plastic DP then it would fit, Eldar and Dark Eldar coming not long after each other would make sense to me, especially if the bikes work out how i think they will. As to the I speculation...hmm... could be.. too far in the future to second guess much IMO.

I'd be saddened if they indeed removed the four assassin temples, though I do think those four units are somewhat superfluous and a lot of them have waaay too many special rules. Having one customizeable Assassin entry might be all right, as long as we're still able to have some of the signature temple abilities, like the Exitus rifle or polymorphine.

Hmm..yeah, I agree with your reasoning, and I guess it would make sense to have perhaps 1 entry and then 4 (.. or more...) temple option packages to select from perhaps.

Does seem a bit opposite of what GW have been doing of late in some ways though... which you could argue makes it a shoo in to happen perhaps ..

I guess something akin to the veterans in the guard codex (although much harder obviously) would work.

Look at it this way, if they roll all four assassin types with all their gear into one army list choice then the odds are high for a warhammer wizard/space marine captain style plastic kit for a unit that wouldn't otherwise have gotten one.

Missions Book
* New units for SM, Orks, Chaos/CSM, and IG re-confirmed. No other love.

When he syas units, doe she mean new army list choices or just new models for existing choices, I thought it was the latter based on his other posts but he makes it sound like the former here...

I think he means those are the only armies getting new models alongside this release.

Which sounds right to me from what I've heard.

Cool, that's what I thought was going on, just the wording threw me a bit.

Cheers.

I can't wait to see the new Ork models, can't belive just how much stuff we've gotten now for Orks, utter glee.

Death By Monkeys wrote:

Dysartes wrote:Are Ogres confirmed now, then, reds8n?

My sources give me a big 'negatory' on OK coming soon.

I've heard something about everything you've been told being a lie.

Don't remember where from though.

I'm loving these rumors! A combined Inquisition codex with custom Assassins? That just might be enough to get me to switch armies!

reds8n wrote:Hmm..yeah, I agree with your reasoning, and I guess it would make sense to have perhaps 1 entry and then 4 (.. or more...) temple option packages to select from perhaps.

I wouldn't mind seeing a return to the early-second edition (Black Codex) Assassins who you could equip piecemeal to suit your specs, as long as they give out enough options to make it meaningful, not just a generic profile with generic wargear.

ShumaGorath wrote:It's too bad the regular marine models don't get poses as dynamic as those legion models.

They do if you paint the legion models as regular SMs... They're space marines ffs, they all look the same.

"SHUT UP! Enough already, Ballstein! Who cares about (Space Marines) anyway? The (miniatures have) only one look for Christ's sake! Blue Steel? Ferrari? Le Tigra? They're the same face! Doesn't anybody notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!!!"

Seriously though, I will never understand the need for so many kits for models that are so similar. I am glad for those who are excited about these minis though.

Gargskull wrote:Cool, that's what I thought was going on, just the wording threw me a bit.

Cheers.

I can't wait to see the new Ork models, can't belive just how much stuff we've gotten now for Orks, utter glee.

It's great but i would like to other models (hint, hint eldar) to come out with theese expansions. When planetstrike came out the only models released along with it were SM models.

Sweet! New Inquisition sounds great. I may not be able to resist starting a new army.

Over the last few years I've heard the idea of a unified Inquisition codex being shot down repeatedly. That's a rumor I'm not so keen on, since it gets refuted so often. The rest of the rumored Inquisition stuff sounds pretty plausible, however. A unified assassin in the army list, cutting out allies rules, just plenty of streamlining work. Also, the idea of Grey Knights happening first makes sense with the previous rumor of Stickmonkey seeing Grey Knight Terminator 3-ups.

I would assume the Chaos release for the Missions book in March will be the Daemon Prince. Can't figure what else it would be.

New units for SM, Orks, Chaos/CSM, and IG re-confirmed.

Now what could be coming for Chaos besides the plastic Daemon Prince? Finally, a plastic Dreadnought or all plastic "cult" troops? Or perhaps more Daemons releases?

Taking out assassins would make me leave this game. Im nervous about customizable single units, but Id give it a shot.

Hope they dont Dark Angel the Inquisitor books.

Archonate wrote:"SHUT UP! Enough already, Ballstein! Who cares about (Space Marines) anyway? The (miniatures have) only one look for Christ's sake! Blue Steel? Ferrari? Le Tigra? They're the same face! Doesn't anybody notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!!!

Well, we all know how that scene ended. Nice reference though.

If they include some Guard and Marine stuff in the book, I can live with it. If you want to field more, you can still play Apocalypse.
Though IMO Sisters need the plastics much more than Grey Knights.

Also: new craftworld Eldar? Why?

Those second wave of rumors sounds a lot more plausible. Maybe because they are a lot more vague...

I'm looking forward to the mission book. Even though I always feel that you can already play those expansion books if you just try something different for yourself... I mean Apocalypse is more or less "anything goes". Why do you need a rulebook for that?

Greets
Schepp himself

reds8n wrote:Necrons
* Likely last Codex before 6th Ed. (commentary:i.e. dont hold your breath)
* Complete overhaul
* Some chance of early plastics in 2011 for existing units that need them...but design changes may preclude. (commentary: i.e. dont count on any new models until the Codex release.)
* Much more "Immortal" theme, less "Terminator" (commentary: I took this to mean more organic based and asked, and was told "no, not organic, they will still be undying machines")

so Necrons are probably pushed again until god knows when, sad sad day. With the rumour of 6th ed just after Necrons all likeliness they just will kill the army again with some rule change 'IE FnP on 4+, ignored by ap4' or some other random nonsense.

Gargskull wrote:I can't wait to see the new Ork models, can't belive just how much stuff we've gotten now for Orks, utter glee.

Source I talked to yesterday also mentioned new Killa Kanz and Buggies.

I'm thinking plastic DP and plastic Seekers released in March. The DP ties in to both the Daemon and CSM armies though I'm not sure if generic daemon cavalry exist anymore (been a while since I opened up the latest csm codex).

reds8n wrote:The OP ( Mr. Stickmonkey) made a new post relating to this ..

Dark Eldar
* GW would like to try opposing armies back to back... (commentary: DE/E? Who are DEs biggest opposition?)

Necrons are normal eldar's joint-2nd biggest enemy...

Do i get any hope?

Kurgash wrote:

reds8n wrote:Necrons
* Likely last Codex before 6th Ed. (commentary:i.e. dont hold your breath)
* Complete overhaul
* Some chance of early plastics in 2011 for existing units that need them...but design changes may preclude. (commentary: i.e. dont count on any new models until the Codex release.)
* Much more "Immortal" theme, less "Terminator" (commentary: I took this to mean more organic based and asked, and was told "no, not organic, they will still be undying machines")

so Necrons are probably pushed again until god knows when, sad sad day. With the rumour of 6th ed just after Necrons all likeliness they just will kill the army again with some rule change 'IE FnP on 4+, ignored by ap4' or some other random nonsense.

My one hope is that they'll be designed with at least some of the changes to 6th in mind, like the current Ork book. When is 6th supposed to come out?

It wrote:

reds8n wrote:The OP ( Mr. Stickmonkey) made a new post relating to this ..

Dark Eldar
* GW would like to try opposing armies back to back... (commentary: DE/E? Who are DEs biggest opposition?)

Necrons are normal eldar's joint-2nd biggest enemy...

Do i get any hope?

What about Slaneesh, the Eldar don't like him. He caused the fall. Which the Eldar didn't like.

You've got that backwards.

The Fall of the Eldar created Slaanesh.

Eldar Own wrote:

It wrote:

reds8n wrote:The OP ( Mr. Stickmonkey) made a new post relating to this ..

Dark Eldar
* GW would like to try opposing armies back to back... (commentary: DE/E? Who are DEs biggest opposition?)

Necrons are normal eldar's joint-2nd biggest enemy...

Do i get any hope?

What about Slaneesh, the Eldar don't like him. He caused the fall. Which the Eldar didn't like.

Kanluwen wrote:You've got that backwards.

The Fall of the Eldar created Slaanesh.

I actually lol'd.

You are both right, though, Eldar in general don't like Slaanesh pretty much because he likes to munch yummy eldar souls and they can't get into the infinite circus.

But Necron sounds more plausible.

Greets
Schepp himself

So now they are doing a combined Inquisition book?

It must be so much fun to change horses each lap...

Fateweaver wrote:I'm thinking plastic DP and plastic Seekers released in March. The DP ties in to both the Daemon and CSM armies though I'm not sure if generic daemon cavalry exist anymore (been a while since I opened up the latest csm codex).

Yah, I've seen those rumours around (including the very cool cad model for the skorcha) but Orks have gotten so much already I'm not getting my hopes for loads more still to come. Plastic kanz would be very, very welcome though, the metal ones cost a bomb. Buggies and traks may be well old but at least they're affordable, lol.

I'll be sad to see "faith points" go. I don't care if they rework or change the acts, but I find the system fluffy and it can add to the narrative of a game with faithful models becoming martyred, etc. I hope they give them some sort of rules that represent their zealous faith, etc.

Also by "combined" do we mean THREE ordos? We will have Ordo Xenos inquisitors in it as well, etc.?

Whoops, already posted.

H.B.M.C. wrote:So now they are doing a combined Inquisition book?

I think it's more correct to say that it's unknown and possibly undecided. I'd guess the studio might have a folder labeled 'inquisition ideas' but the project probably isn't much further, and they might not be sure if it'll be 1, 2, or 3 books, really.

Really hope those Assassin rumours aren't true, they're really characterful rules at the moment.

Also, my brother won't be amused if Faith Points go, they've saved his army from losing a few times.

I'm not too worried yet though, these are only rumours anyway.

CT GAMER wrote:I'll be sad to see "faith points" go. I don't care if they rework or change the acts, but I find the system fluffy and it can add to the narrative of a game with faithful models becoming martyred, etc. I hope they give them some sort of rules that represent their zealous faith, etc.

Oh you'll get your Faith rules, but they won't be tied to Faith Points.

They'll be tied to Special Characters.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

CT GAMER wrote:I'll be sad to see "faith points" go. I don't care if they rework or change the acts, but I find the system fluffy and it can add to the narrative of a game with faithful models becoming martyred, etc. I hope they give them some sort of rules that represent their zealous faith, etc.

Oh you'll get your Faith rules, but they won't be tied to Faith Points.

They'll be tied to Special Characters.

Hurr hurr. Just like synapse huh? Faith points are a neat mechanic, but no one knew how they worked. The army was just to rare. They'll probably get reduced to keywords in a few units (i can forsee "faith tests" requiring leadership or stat tests) and some neat psychic (yet not psychic) powers. A statline based set of abilities, like succeeding on a T test giving you an INV save or something similar in choice would be neat and easily understood.

Or, Acts of Faith will be the new Orders system, with a squad sergeant requiring a passed Ld test with a modifier (as in, roll a d6 and add/subtract x when trying to roll under/over leadership) to gain an effect.

bhsman wrote:Or, Acts of Faith will be the new Orders system, with a squad sergeant requiring a passed Ld test with a modifier (as in, roll a d6 and add/subtract x when trying to roll under/over leadership) to gain an effect.

A logical suggestion and quite plausible. I hope the Witch Hunters book has a "get on your knees and beg for your life" order. Chaos rules.

bhsman wrote:Or, Acts of Faith will be the new Orders system, with a squad sergeant requiring a passed Ld test with a modifier (as in, roll a d6 and add/subtract x when trying to roll under/over leadership) to gain an effect.

Now that sounds about right...

BrassScorpion wrote:

bhsman wrote:Or, Acts of Faith will be the new Orders system, with a squad sergeant requiring a passed Ld test with a modifier (as in, roll a d6 and add/subtract x when trying to roll under/over leadership) to gain an effect.

A logical suggestion and quite plausible. I hope the Witch Hunters book has a "get on your knees and beg for your life" order. Chaos rules.

And that sounds very funny!

So much so that I do hope that's in there!

Actually I agree, it is more likely to just be a bunch of abilities keyed around basic Leadership tests than any point system similar to the Orders system.

ShumaGorath wrote:Faith points are a neat mechanic, but no one knew how they worked.

Hyperbolic statement is hyperbolic.

I'd wager that Sisters players had a good idea how their army worked, and regular opponents of said Sisters players would also have a fair idea. In fact, I'd put good money on anyone with a decent amount of reading comprehension skills could figure out the Faith Point rules simply by reading the Faith Point rules. But, y'know, keep trying Shummy.

Hyperbolic statement is hyperbolic.

Except when an army makes up 4% of the games playerbase at best. No one is going to know how the opponents faith point system works.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Hyperbolic statement is hyperbolic.

Except when an army makes up 4% of the games playerbase at best. No one is going to know how the opponents faith point system works.

So if you didn't know their rules, and you were playing against them, you'd have to...

...take it on faith?

(Heh.)

I'll take my pass on these.

So in discussion today a few new things came up. Treat as rumors, as this source does not have direct information.

Missions Book
* New units for SM, Orks, Chaos/CSM, and IG re-confirmed. No other love.

new toys excite me, new missions do not. GW has a bad track record on these things.

Inquisition
* All inquisition units to get new models...eventually
* Codex: Inquisition to combine all orders of =I=
* GK being focused on for release, Sisters 2nd wave
* No allies, but indoctrinated units will include choices from other Imperial armies
* No faith points
* Lots of Psychic Nullification
* Lots of Ignore Invul
* Another flyer/transport kit Valkyrie-sized being planned for release
* GK models may see light of day early tied into another product release. (commentary: I hear rumors of a Space hulk expansion being planned, but they are vague and disorganized, so much salt needed here)
* Release window is not 2010 for C:I
* Imperial Assassin now a single unit, culdex, Caladeus, etc all gone. Unit will have numerous lethal options. Very Expensive.

Really good news from my POV. I think a single book was always the way to go, I'll start a wish listing thread over in discussions.

Hopefully this means the rumored plan of Codex Grey Knights and Codex SoB is dead, dead, dead. In my mind the GKs should be 1 elite unit, GK as troops in mere powered armor never quite sat right with me.

Loss of faith points might hurt SoB players but it was always a clumsy mechanism. Hopefully the SoBs will get something similar with a cleaner mechanic.

I wonder if the flier is new (Aquilla shuttle?) or just planning a Vendetta kit.

I like the idea of 1 assassin listing, the current rules are very much a carryover from 2nd edition and are needless limiting. Hopefully we will also lose the 1 per army rule as well.

Only bad news is it won't be out for another year...

Dark Eldar
* GW would like to try opposing armies back to back... (commentary: DE/E? Who are DEs biggest opposition?)

Inquisition/Chaos Cults?

I can dream can't I...

* While most models are "final" the sprue designs are not started for some...aka we still have a manufacturing ramp up
* New units heavy in FA FOC

OK, OK maybe DE really are coming.

Maybe.

I wonder if I can use their rules for Chaos Cults or Genestealer cults.

Necrons
* Likely last Codex before 6th Ed. (commentary:i.e. dont hold your breath)
* Complete overhaul
* Some chance of early plastics in 2011 for existing units that need them...but design changes may preclude. (commentary: i.e. dont count on any new models until the Codex release.)
* Much more "Immortal" theme, less "Terminator" (commentary: I took this to mean more organic based and asked, and was told "no, not organic, they will still be undying machines")

Shame they're not going to fix them sooner. A revised codex might do wonders for the Necs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS just reread Einhorn 2, starting book 3 tonight.

Can someone explain why everyone is excited about BamBam Bigalo Marines...IIRC they are double the cost of a marine each.

Seem lame. Or are people really going to make an all metal LD army.

Balance wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:So now they are doing a combined Inquisition book?

I think it's more correct to say that it's unknown and possibly undecided. I'd guess the studio might have a folder labeled 'inquisition ideas' but the project probably isn't much further, and they might not be sure if it'll be 1, 2, or 3 books, really.

I agree.

I'll be sad to see "faith points" go. I don't care if they rework or change the acts, but I find the system fluffy and it can add to the narrative of a game with faithful models becoming martyred, etc. I hope they give them some sort of rules that represent their zealous faith, etc.

I´m glad the FP will be gone.
new playes have a hard time understanding them, opponents dont know a thing about them unless tehy play vs SoB on a regulr basis and the whole system is so ripe with abuse its not even funny with invul squads and flying nuns of doom (FnoD) with their constant 2+ inv saves are least to say, annoying.

I wouldn't mind Faith being reworked in some fashion but I would be sad to see it go and frankly GW if it ain't broke don't fix it. Faith works fine as is, it really does turn the basic sister from a terrible unit into a great one but the limit on points and need for tests balance it out.

I don't see how it was open to abuse, unless you cheated but in my experience sisters are so expensive and so fringe they don't attract the cheating types.

My FLGS has a sellout on Furioso dreads and Eldar Support weapon platforms and few other products (eg. large part of Sisters, DE Mandrakes, Big Gunz). Could that possibly suggest anything?

ergotoxin wrote:My FLGS has a sellout on Furioso dreads and Eldar Support weapon platforms and few other products (eg. large part of Sisters, DE Mandrakes, Big Gunz). Could that possibly suggest anything?

That you should be picking up Furioso's for conversions?

I predict that the SoB will be reduced to 2 unit entries: Battle Sisters and Seraphim. Both will have the Faithful special rule - on a successful Ld test they get FNP. Canoness will be a unit leader upgrade. The End.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I predict that the SoB will be reduced to 2 unit entries: Battle Sisters and Seraphim. Both will have the Faithful special rule - on a successful Ld test they get FNP. Canoness will be a unit leader upgrade. The End.

because eliminating what many people play as a stand alone force is a good idea...

The plans were for two seperate codexes based on the chambers militant, ie grey knights and sisters, this may or may not have changed slightly, but a pure sisters force, and a pure GK force will be fieldable.

I would love a mixed inquisitor codex, its the variety in armies that make it fun. i wouldn't mind paying extra for a thicker codex if it had multiple usuable forces in it and was open to some cool army themes

Purge the Heretic wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I predict that the SoB will be reduced to 2 unit entries: Battle Sisters and Seraphim. Both will have the Faithful special rule - on a successful Ld test they get FNP. Canoness will be a unit leader upgrade. The End.

because eliminating what many people play as a stand alone force is a good idea...

Well GW certainly seems to think so - just ask my Death Guard Havocs.

If sisters aren't getting their own codex then we should expect a consolidation of the range rather than an expansion. Taking a look at the webstore I see 7 different variants of bolter sisters, 5 variants of sister superior, 2 variants of icon bearer, 3 variants of heavy weapon, and 6 variants of special weapons (3 types of weapons with 2 sculpts each). To me that looks like 1 Battle Sisters box set and maybe 1 heavy weapon sisters box set (if we're lucky). If we keep the seraphim and repentia box sets then that's 3-4 box sets. Since models = rules that equates to 3-4 unit choices unless they decide to cut seraphim and/or repentia completely (a possibility considering a combined inquisition codex is going to almost certainly focus on Grey Knights since they are spase marienz). They'll probably keep the Immolator since its plastic, but the Exorcist might go away.

So in a best case scenario I see the sisters units looking like:

HQ: Canoness
Elites: Repentia
Troops: Battle Sisters
Fast Attack: Seraphim
Heavy Support: Retributors, Immolators, Exorcists

Worst case scenario I see them being reduced to:

Troops: Battle Sisters (can upgrade Sister Superior to Canoness and can take Immolator as a transport)

But don't worry. Even in the worst case scenario I'm sure they'll get a datasheet that lets them use most of the stuff they lose... in Apocalypse! Hurr!!

I'm often called a doomsayer and a bs-monger but I am in awe, in bloody gobsmacked awe, at your prowess.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I predict that the SoB will be reduced to 2 unit entries: Battle Sisters and Seraphim. Both will have the Faithful special rule - on a successful Ld test they get FNP. Canoness will be a unit leader upgrade. The End.

How the flying feth did you come to this conclusion? That doesn't make a lick of sense. There's very few things I can say without a doubt will not happen, and this is one of them.

Brother SRM wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I predict that the SoB will be reduced to 2 unit entries: Battle Sisters and Seraphim. Both will have the Faithful special rule - on a successful Ld test they get FNP. Canoness will be a unit leader upgrade. The End.

How the flying feth did you come to this conclusion? That doesn't make a lick of sense. There's very few things I can say without a doubt will not happen, and this is one of them.

You do know who you're talking to right?

We're not at the point yet where reading someone's name gives off an info-auto-trans aura that lets us know how e-(in)famous someone is.

So, no.

Oh please send Repentia to Apocalypse only land. Teen friendly S&M nuns were 40k's worst idea ever!

I wonder what the radical list's survival chances are, nil, or am I being too optimistic?

I'm sure that Grey Knights and Sisters will be MUCH more "Elite like" in the new Inquisition book. Like Kyoto said Grey Knights are insainly powerful and shouldn't just be running around.

I assume that the new Inquisition might be more based on having GEQ type troops (like an inquisitors army) with backup from Sisters and Grey Knights. I am also pulling for inquisitors to be extremely powerful (just read Ravanor and damn he is a beast lol).

I can't wait to see the new assassins especially, with some of the Deathleaper stuff that Nids are getting, I'm sure they will be disgusting.

Repentia have a strong fluff basis...the models are great...the rules suck.

BrookM wrote:You do know who you're talking to right?

Um... Sho'nuff!?!!?

Couldn't resist.

EzeKK wrote:I'm sure that Grey Knights and Sisters will be MUCH more "Elite like" in the new Inquisition book. Like Kyoto said Grey Knights are insainly powerful and shouldn't just be running around.

To be honest, I don't know if the Sisters should be 'that' elite. Sure,t hey're scary to Guardsmen but the way 40k is, individual Guardsmen are probably scared of mutant hamsters (the hamsters are, of course, bald and covered in skulls.)

To me, defining the role of the Sisters is an interesting exercise into the 'realpolitik' of the 40k setting.

The first concept is 'balance of power.' A lot of the Imperial forces have near-unlimited power within a specific domain. The Space Marines answer to no one but the Primarchs and the Emperor, but are expected to help if asked by a planetary governor, High Lord of Terra, etc. They generally do the 'right thing' (I.E. purge the unclean, etc.) because that's what they want to do anyway. They're kept in line by the other major power blocks, including:

The Inquisition gives out Exterminatus authority to it's trusted leaders. High-ranking Inquisitors can order entire planets burned with no appeal. However, if they do this too much or to the wrong parties, they'll find themselves cut off. So the Inquisitors need to be careful when and where they use this. For example, if a Space Marine world is under attack by Tyranids, an Inquisiotr might be justified in ordering it torched to prevent a larger problem. However, if the Chapter controlling the world wants to keep it, they can work out a deal. The Space Marines keep their world (albeit with 'guests' ) and the Inquisitor now is owed some favors by some of the best purveyors of violence available in the Imperium.

Add other groups in and it's much the same. If any major power bloc (High Lords, Adeptus Mechanicus, even the IG) steps out of line, they'll get smacked down by the other blocks. It's also a good thing there's external threats to give them something to focus on. Even various Chapters have grudges that keep them from acting in concer.

It all reminds me of a scene from a Discworld novel where taxing the wizard's school Unseen University is discussed. The Patriarch (a tyrant) and the Arcchancelor (a PHB) agree that the University will not pay taxes (as such would cause an uproar among the well-armed wizards) but will, of course, make a small completely voluntary monetary donation to aid in the upkeep of the streets outside the university. This is, I find, similar to how the real world works, if not as fun.

Anyway, the Sisters are a relatively minor player in this, but they're a much more 'surgical' method of dealing with rogue Space Marine chapters or elements than Exterminatus.

I'd guess a small (less than a company) of Space Marines going rogue is not unknown. They're either possessed by chaos, decide they should be in charge of the Imperium (in the Emperor's name, of course) or find some other reason to start annoying people. Maybe they just curb-stomped Inquisitor Muffy's dog. Eventually, they probably end up being discovered and someone needs to deal with them. Sending in more Space Marines is a bad idea: What if they talk and it's agreed that Chaos is nifty, or the Imperium does need some strong leadership, or that Inquisitor Muffy's dog was one of those annoying 'teacup chihuahuas' and had it coming?

Someone is needed that can fight Space Marines, assaulting as necessary, and wants to prove themselves. Guardsmen, even Stormtroopers, aren't really suitable. Too squishy, not built for the assault, and (more importantly) they're generally taught to think Space Marines are really, really cool. There's already lots of Guardsmen wondering why they were assigned all this 'gently used' gear and vehicles after the previous owners were 'sent off for reeducation' after coming into contact with Chaos forces, we don't need more.

Send in the Adepta Sororitas! Sure, they'll lose 10 for every Space Marine killed, but it's worth it. They've got armor that at least gives them a chance, numbers, and they probably have a chip on their soldier. The Space Marines are the 'emperor's children' (No, not those Emperor's Children) and the SoB are probably a bit jealous that they're a couple more steps removed, as they really only knew him as 'old husk-in-the-chair' instead of having stories going back to him walking around and actually doing stuff. This attitude is encouraged as long as they stay on their chain, and any rogue SoB groups can be dealt with in reverse, by asking the Space Marines to assault in force.

But I'm a huge heretic, so what do I know?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Purge the Heretic wrote:Repentia have a strong fluff basis...the models are great...the rules suck.

The Citadel Journal version was much cooler, albeit with goofy, not-really-workable rules.

That version of Repentia was, essentially, a Sister that had messed up somehow and was going into combat without full armor as a last chance to earn some forgiveness. She was assigned to a squad and was an extra wound of dubious value.

I thought the way to handle this would have been to assign the character to a squad and allow the squad to fall back somehow, but leave the Repentia there. In the unlikely event she survives the combat, maybe give her some sort of boon. Otherwise, she gives her life to stop a squad's assault and give the squad a chance to fire before being assaulted again.

The main differences from the Repentias int he book is no one is keeping a rack full of special swords around for the prisoners to take into battle, or designating a specialist Sister as a 'minder' for an entire pack of screw-ups. The 'old' Repentias were armed with stuff that is apparently common enough in the Imperium: Bolt pistols and flak, or something like that.

Also, IIRC, there is something like a garrison of Sisters in every planetary system.

ubermosher wrote:

BrookM wrote:You do know who you're talking to right?

Um... Sho'nuff!?!!?

Couldn't resist.

The Shogun of Harlem?

Saldiven wrote:

ubermosher wrote:

BrookM wrote:You do know who you're talking to right?

Um... Sho'nuff!?!!?

Couldn't resist.

The Shogun of Harlem?

Quick, someone better call Bruce Leroy!