From Wargames Factory:

Now that we're past all the holidays and starting off 2010 - we thought it high time to show some of the progress that's been made on the Greatcoats.

We've gone back and forth on the main weapon design - but should be wrapping that up soon and we'll show you what we've come up with.

Here are two renders of some part configurations that show off the flexibility of the sprue .

The basic sprue will have 3 body types - standing and two advancing. These will be accompanied by a LOAD of arm and head options. We wanted to provide enough parts that you can take several of these sprues and create not only a primary force but their opposition as well.

Because of this, we're going to have a lot of head choices so that you can either outfit the sprue as 3 of the same helmeted figure type - or go crazy with some other "interesting" options.

You can get a taste of this with the below:

I'd say these are starting to shape up quite a bit. They're not gorgeous, but they're cheap and plastic.

As long as the original helmetted heads are still in there, I'm happy. Looking nice.

The torso looks good, the second model looks okay, the heads blow though.

The heads aren't so important, the bodies are.

West wind and Pig Iron will provide the heads if needed.

The bearded head and that giant cannon look good, not so sure about the bodies though...

Really? I'm not a fan of either.

The detail on the bearded head is is great... its too bad its out of scale with the body, and everything else looks horrid.

Actually, the torsos/bodies arent that bad, its just the heads, weapons, arms, and shoulders which need to go, so I guess I could kitbash them into someting good, but for it to be worth it, these need to cost the same as their praetorians... err... I mean colonial british.

I like the leader figure, hate the integral bases which will cause issues with trying to base them on gaming-style bases and make it almost impossible to use them for dioramas and the like.

If they're cheap enough, I could theoretically buy a few.

The bodies look decent, but they'll probably need Cadian arms and Pig Iron heads.

Also, time for interested parties to go to WF forums and suggest a separate base.

lord_blackfang wrote:The bodies look decent, but they'll probably need Cadian arms and Pig Iron heads.

Those would only work if the scaling is exactly right, which I find unlikely, given WGF's previous adherence to actual 28mm scale.

Agamemnon2 wrote:I like the leader figure, hate the integral bases which will cause issues with trying to base them on gaming-style bases and make it almost impossible to use them for dioramas and the like.

If they're cheap enough, I could theoretically buy a few.

If you're doing any sort of basing work on the actual base, you can usually cover up the integral base without much effort. That's my experience anyway.

Well, looking at the hands feet and head, they are larger in proportion to the body than any REAL human, so they might very well be heroic 28mm...

But looking at the leader figure more... what were they thinking? He looks like the bastard child of darth vader and bozo the clown, the grills on the mask make it look like a big clown mouth, and it even looks like he has a clown nose.

Scale's come up before they noted these would be 10% bigger than true 28s.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Link to their thread

http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/2010/01/06/greatcoat-updates/

Wow....we waited all this time....for....that?

The masses sure spoke all right. This is why some things should not be done via committee.

Am I the only one who thinks the shoulder pads ruin the model? I had high hopes of using these for my SL vets. Oh well.

Ugh. I know the 'greatcoat and gas mask' crowd are all moist over this pending release, but not looking so great in the rendering phase.

Le Grognard wrote:Ugh. I know the 'greatcoat and gas mask' crowd are all moist over this pending release, but not looking so great in the rendering phase.

As one of the 'greatcoat and gas mask' crowd, I am not happy with the renders. None of my ideas got taken seriously in the initial stages and we end up with silly pointy double shoulderpads, soft looking breast plates, and overall not an effect that I am a fan of.

Yeah, shoulderpads kill it for me too (see my previous post).

Really, looking at it... it looks like the artist took the arms from another model and stuck it on there. Aesthetically, it doesnt match the rest of the miniature at all. Looks way to much like a SM shoulder really.

Ah well, I wasn't really expecting too much, as the initial renders looked like crap too, at least the revised renders look better...

...I just hope the standard weapon isn't some FG-42 derivative, that was MY idea for my own great-coat guard line that I planned on doing, and they stole it

I do like how most of the people on the WF forums or whatever seem to love it though, it seems they are so enamored with seeing their own ideas used they can't see the overall suck of the design.

Im kinda out of the loop here.
Which head(s) did they decide to go with?

Also second the "soft armour" statement. Should have been more standard "sounds-like-Padian-armour" with straight lines, or no armor at all (just greatcoat).

whitedragon wrote:Wow....we waited all this time....for....that?

The masses sure spoke all right. This is why some things should not be done via committee.

It wasn't a committee. It was a handful of meddlers screaming so loud nobody else could get a word in edgewise.

Also, I'm not sure if it was "the people's" fault for messing these up. Surely some blame should go to the inept sculptors at WGF?

1: If you want greatcoat use Krieg as the basis... they used french WW1 with breastplates and they look excellent.
2: Get rid of the giant pirate gloves on the first model. Look ridiculous.
3: Shoulder pads look ridiculous. Again, check out the krieg models, they have them, but are appropriate for the type of trooper.

I think you would be better served sculpting decent minotaur models after seeing the lame GW ones.

I actually think the renders have become much better than the initial concepts. Not that bad.

--

Anybody noticed the funny way the strap is attached to the Gatling?
When the barrels starts to revolve the strap will probably strangle the gunner

The heads are awful, and the second one isn't even in scale with the model. The shoulder pads on the top one are also very bad, and look tacked on.

The torsos themselves are decent.

kendoka wrote:
Anybody noticed the funny way the strap is attached to the Gatling?
When the barrels starts to revolve the strap will probably strangle the gunner

strangling gatling

The eyes look mutant freaky... No nothing for me here.

I need to see sprue pics but I am still very interested. The legs and body (which is what I most wanted) look good enough.

Come one, if you really want stuff like that just buy this

http://www.princeaugust.ie/target_games/tg2420-1.html

The trenchers actually look half decent even today, unlike this bunch of creeps.

@ Prince August Warzone Minatures

There does not appear to be prices or a way to purchase these figures. Also are they multi part or single?

Sorry.

Go here

http://www.princeaugust.ie/target_games/index_warzone.html

scroll to "WARZONE - Mutant Chronicles - battle board Games" section and look for "Warzone 80 plastic battle soldiers in bag". 20 Euro.

Models have separate arms. I don't remember if heads are separate too, but I guess they are.

Looking good, though I hope the helmeted heads are a little smaller than those ones.

Interesting, pity they don't have more painted samples up.

His Master's Voice wrote:Come one, if you really want stuff like that just buy this

http://www.princeaugust.ie/target_games/tg2420-1.html

The trenchers actually look half decent even today, unlike this bunch of creeps.

I have a bag of these and no glue will hold them. Not even green stuff sticks to these

lord_blackfang wrote:

His Master's Voice wrote:Come one, if you really want stuff like that just buy this

http://www.princeaugust.ie/target_games/tg2420-1.html

The trenchers actually look half decent even today, unlike this bunch of creeps.

I have a bag of these and no glue will hold them. Not even green stuff sticks to these

What about two part epoxy? have you washed the figs before gluing? Apologies if you have tried this.

The Warzone figures are a really good deal if you want the cheapest possible guys, but they are made out of low quality materials and have very little conversion potential. These WGF guys, on the other hand, look like they are going to be full-on multi-pose plastics, and for a fairly cheap price as well.

I for one like them and will definately pick up a few to check them out.

I might pick up a bag for DH and RT purposes (you may all groan now), but if there's trouble sticking them together properly I might have to look for other, more expensive alternatives for militia and security troopers.

No one will groan. You will simply be burned at the stake for using miniatures in an RPG game.

Fetterkey wrote:The Warzone figures are a really good deal if you want the cheapest possible guys, but they are made out of low quality materials and have very little conversion potential. These WGF guys, on the other hand, look like they are going to be full-on multi-pose plastics, and for a fairly cheap price as well.

Cheap can only go so far. Not far enough in this case for me.

His Master's Voice wrote:Sorry.

Go here

http://www.princeaugust.ie/target_games/index_warzone.html

scroll to "WARZONE - Mutant Chronicles - battle board Games" section and look for "Warzone 80 plastic battle soldiers in bag". 20 Euro.

Models have separate arms. I don't remember if heads are separate too, but I guess they are.

Heads, backpacks and arms are seperate. however they use a harder plastic than GW, normal plastic cement does not work on it, you need plastruct or something.

Also although they are plastic they are not multipose, there's really only 1 way to put them together.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah beaten to the punch...

Do the Warzone minis size up nice enough to GW and other company's minis?

BrookM wrote:Do the Warzone minis size up nice enough to GW and other company's minis?

IIRC the plastics do but the metals are noticibly taller and bulkier.

I really have nothing nice to say about their plastics, you all know I love me some plastics, I've bought some truly hideous things over the years as conversion fodder. I bought exactly 5 of the Warzone plastics and while they look nice enough the glue issue and the lack of conversion just turned me off.

As long as we're talking about alternate plastics I'd plug these guys.

http://www.scotiagrendel.com/Products/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_64&products_id=432



10 for 5UKP.

I'm looking forward to the WGF guys. Niether of these heads really appeal but I've already seen the gasmask heads and I'm quite happy. The gattling is properly over the top and cool. And I can't wait to see the whole package.

Take a look at the new guy put up then Kid Kyoto!

Sexy!

Hrm, direct link.

http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/composition/attachment/0389e33a52097f4aa1c9153792150515/412991/GreatCoatPlastic3.jpg?thumb=1

lord_blackfang wrote:

His Master's Voice wrote:Come one, if you really want stuff like that just buy this

http://www.princeaugust.ie/target_games/tg2420-1.html

The trenchers actually look half decent even today, unlike this bunch of creeps.

I have a bag of these and no glue will hold them. Not even green stuff sticks to these

I have a whole IG force of them. Wash the sprues, or at least abrade the plastic before cementing. Mine stay fine.

As for converting, the poses are pretty awkward for adaptation, but YMMV. Mostly you'll want to switch barrels, add variant gun bitz glued on like fuel cannisters etc. on existing arms rather than swapping out for GW arms/guns.

They're not the greatest and would be a waste of time for anything you want to be really presentable, but they're a great choice for a budget IG horde or Inquisition Stormtroopers.

Wow, talk about these models being run into the ground.

Those shoulder pads are horrific.

Vertrucio wrote:Wow, talk about these models being run into the ground.

Those shoulder pads are horrific.

Follow Kid_Kyoto's link 2 posts up, they rapidly fixed the shoulder pads due to everyones feed back about how ugly the 1st pair were. The new render has much improved shoulder pads, and a gas mask head, very cool looking.

Shoulder pads are better. Kind of like Id rather be shot in the shoulder than in the head.

I seriously believe in bringing solutions not problems. So make the pads a separate piece so customers can add them or not.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:1: If you want greatcoat use Krieg as the basis... they used french WW1 with breastplates and they look excellent.
2: Get rid of the giant pirate gloves on the first model. Look ridiculous.
3: Shoulder pads look ridiculous. Again, check out the krieg models, they have them, but are appropriate for the type of trooper.

I think you would be better served sculpting decent minotaur models after seeing the lame GW ones.

Wait, was this directed at me? If you're insinuating I sculpted these, I'm afraid you're mistaken. Just plugging these models since they've been anticipated for a while.

Also, that new pointing arm they're showing is awkward as hell.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Sexy!

Hrm, direct link.

http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/composition/attachment/0389e33a52097f4aa1c9153792150515/412991/GreatCoatPlastic3.jpg?thumb=1

That's not bad. I'd rotate the pointing hand inwards to get a more natural pose, but that's easily accomplished.

Savnock wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:

His Master's Voice wrote:Come one, if you really want stuff like that just buy this

http://www.princeaugust.ie/target_games/tg2420-1.html

The trenchers actually look half decent even today, unlike this bunch of creeps.

I have a bag of these and no glue will hold them. Not even green stuff sticks to these

I have a whole IG force of them. Wash the sprues, or at least abrade the plastic before cementing. Mine stay fine.

As for converting, the poses are pretty awkward for adaptation, but YMMV. Mostly you'll want to switch barrels, add variant gun bitz glued on like fuel cannisters etc. on existing arms rather than swapping out for GW arms/guns.

They're not the greatest and would be a waste of time for anything you want to be really presentable, but they're a great choice for a budget IG horde or Inquisition Stormtroopers.

I have 160 Warzone guys with more coming and I´m quite happy with them. There are only a couple poses but I managed to build them without much trouble and used some GW bits for special weapons. Now the task of painting them is truly daunting.

About the WF great coats I´m not very keen on the shoulder pads, either single or none at all would have been better, still once the final sprue comes out I might grab a couple for special guys or such.

M.

Shoulder pads are still hideous, way oversized even for a miniature.

The breatplates are also pretty ugly.

The whole design actually seems to invalidate its own title, which is Scifi Greatcoat troopers. The breastplate obscures the greatcoat completely, as does the shoulder pads.

So far, these guys are more heavily armored guys with open front skirts.

Those aren't oversized shoulderpads.

*These* are oversized shoulderpads:

VLAD DOES NOT NEED PERIPHERAL VISION! FOR HE HAS A BIG ROCK TO STAND ON! (actually his footing on that ice doesn't look very stable).
I'm happy enough with them. Plastic gas mask wearing greatcoat and armour sporting fellas was exactly what I was looking for. But the bad thing is now I have to start an Imperial Gaurd army...

Kid_Kyoto wrote:As long as we're talking about alternate plastics I'd plug these guys.

http://www.scotiagrendel.com/Products/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_64&products_id=432

I think these are superior.

I think the body armor looks great. The segmented plates look like lower portions of German WWI body armor. And the segmented style breaks it up so you don't have an unsightly flat plate.

The most recent image KK posted looks...decent. The first two were hideous. I'm not working on an IG army, but it doesn't bode well for how the rest of the sci-fi submissions will turn out.

I have the feeling that the hype has worn off these models, but they've come a long way since the first renders. Every little detail can be criticized, but these are low cost models made with conversions in mind. Greenstuff those shoulder pads, use your modelling bone, slap on a new head and thank Zeus they're cheap.

Between hearing folks hack and hack over new sculpts for Venomthropes, Minotaurs, Costigors, and a host of other well known sins from a well known Big Daddy of Minis, people gut Wargames Factory over their first sci-fi kit. No miniature will ever be "what you wanted". Beyond that, renders and previews are not miniatures.

The answer to those is to make those shoulder pads as optional.

make them as thier own seperate bit.

That glove thing, what is that?

How do these look alongside other models of different game systems?

Not sure why the renders are getting so much hate- its like no one can actually tell that these guys have the well armored vibe of being pre-heresy IG. (Big shoulder pads = design elements taken from the spess marinze cause tehy roxxorz the Emperorz prezenze)

In my eyes they are easilly the equal of the Cadians, and assuming you arnt afraid to use a hobby saw or some green stuff, should be the basis of hugely unique armies at a fraction of the cost that GW would charge you...

wargames factory is doing a bang up job- only time before I roder some stuff from them, I suspect.

Those sure are some nice Camels.

Yes we can only pray that these will have the same high-quality heads, shoulder pads and well-proportioned weapons as this fellow.

I think he's being sarcastic.

/sarcasm

Carlovonsexron wrote:Not sure why the renders are getting so much hate- its like no one can actually tell that these guys have the well armored vibe of being pre-heresy IG. (Big shoulder pads = design elements taken from the spess marinze cause tehy roxxorz the Emperorz prezenze)

In my eyes they are easilly the equal of the Cadians, and assuming you arnt afraid to use a hobby saw or some green stuff, should be the basis of hugely unique armies at a fraction of the cost that GW would charge you...

wargames factory is doing a bang up job- only time before I roder some stuff from them, I suspect.

You and the other guy are late to this conversation.

We've been keeping an eye on these for quite some time now and Wargames Factory have been here on and off since the beginning looking for honest feedback. They got the feedback. No ones doing any over the top ball busting, and seeing as this Isn't Sparta, and it is Dakka....

We do what we do so we can get the stuff we want and asked for.

The opinions are good, and there really hasn't been too many over the top requests to the figs.

Just because someone asked for something, or gives a critique doesn't mean they won't be picking them up a platoon of them from his local game store.

You want honest, you get honest.

You want fanboy, the doors that way.

Grot 6 wrote:You want honest, you get honest.

You want fanboy, the doors that way.

Exactly, because splitting the community into resentful little cliques and evicting those who fall short of our standards for acceptable behavior are both fine methods for breeding, shall we say, a better, stronger wargaming community. Or maybe you should just grow up and realize not everyone sees the world as you do.

Breeding a stronger wargaming community...ew...

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Grot 6 wrote:You want honest, you get honest.

You want fanboy, the doors that way.

Exactly, because splitting the community into resentful little cliques and evicting those who fall short of our standards for acceptable behavior are both fine methods for breeding, shall we say, a better, stronger wargaming community. Or maybe you should just grow up and realize not everyone sees the world as you do.

I have a better idea.

Why don't you get off your high horse and give some feedback on an ongoing work from a company that asked for feedback, ideas, and recommendations.

Your comment doesn't even have a place in this conversation anymore then fanboy comments. In case you missed it-

http://www.wargamesfactory.com/league- The beginning of the projects.

http://www.wargamesfactory.com/BookingRetrieve.aspx?ID=42195- continuing work on the project.

http://www.wargamesfactory.com/leaguelists- lists of works in progress, as well as THIS COMPANY ASKING FOR FEEDBACK AND RECOMMENDATIONS


Next time, why don't you try to know what you are talking about before you type out something that makes you look like a cheesepoof.

I got rid of the rest of that, because quite frankly, your comments are not worth it.

You are uninformed. Period.

We will continue to provide feedback, regardless of your opinion.

I for one am waiting on my greatcoats, and I'm following the project.

The guys look 110% better then the beginnings did.

Grot 6 wrote:The guys look 110% better then the beginnings did.

I have been on that thread since the beginning. In the beginning it was undeveloped but promising. I had a lot of hope.
The current models have passable heads, but I never intended to use the stock heads, I would have used pig iron heads. The robo-viking head and capped head look stupid.
They have passable coats/legs too, though I miss the buttons a bit.
The chest armor and shoulder armor however is terrible. Totally awful looking. The chest armor is too rounded and mushy looking, and the shoulder pads don't match the chest armor at all, even the recently "revised" version with the ridiculous and nonsensical vertical armor stripe.
I have not seen any basic guns but the minigun design is awful, and it would strangle anyone that used it.

All in all I have looked at, and gave suggestions in, that thread for the whole 9 months that it has existed now and I must say they have made one ugly baby. I will not be buying any if the design stays as it is.

lord_blackfang wrote:

His Master's Voice wrote:Come one, if you really want stuff like that just buy this

http://www.princeaugust.ie/target_games/tg2420-1.html

The trenchers actually look half decent even today, unlike this bunch of creeps.

I have a bag of these and no glue will hold them. Not even green stuff sticks to these

I stuck them with humbrol liquid poly. Works fine.

@ Ramshackle Curtis: Does this look like the kind of place where you can just post pictures of guys with gas masks, turbans and pith helmets willy nilly and just carry on as if nothing cool and awesome has happened without a bye or leave?

Bosh and flim-flam!

Sir, I demand satisfaction, I demand links!

Oh dear they aren't very good are they? I like the bodies, even the chest armour considering the price. The heads are bad, but I could replace those, but the arms as well? Who thought the shoulder pads were a good idea? They just looks awful, people wanted fairly plain looking futuristic soldiers in great coats, not all this gubbins stuck to them.

Sigh.

I dunno, the shoulderpads don't spoil it for me. They're a little bit silly, but hey, it's plastic, it's cheap and it's wearing a greatcoat and a gas mask.

Wow, these are absolute garbage. Even for Wargames Factory, and thats saying something.

Grot 6 wrote:Why don't you get off your high horse and give some feedback on an ongoing work from a company that asked for feedback, ideas, and recommendations.

What makes you think I haven't? I've posted feedback on every single stage of the project, none of which aroused any interest or agreement. Also, it became apparent very quickly that WGF's designers simply lack the imagination to make these models look in any way interesting. I really can't see how anyone could be happy with what we're getting now, a timid compromise.

See, I liked these:



And stated so unequivocally, but I guess I must've gotten drowned out by that segment of WGF fans who're either mad, or both. I might still buy the current set, if they're cheap enough for me to do something interesting with. Maybe.

Remember people, if you don't like them, please go say so on their forums, because that's the point of the "wargames factory" thing.

George Spiggott wrote:@ Ramshackle Curtis: Does this look like the kind of place where you can just post pictures of guys with gas masks, turbans and pith helmets willy nilly and just carry on as if nothing cool and awesome has happened without a bye or leave?

Bosh and flim-flam!

Sir, I demand satisfaction, I demand links!

Oh, sorry dude, my fault! The heads are made by me and can be bought here:

http://shop.ramshacklegames.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=18&zenid=c3abbce95c94802553c365b26190a678

Yeah, as for the topic here, Im not so into the wargames factory stuff. The detail is too spongy, I prefer other manufacturers.

I ordered 5 sprues today of them. I think this will be awsome.

I really liked the first version. Especially the guy with no helmet. It had a really cool future-paratrooper look to him.

Anyway I think everyone agrees the bearded head looks horrible. I personally don't have a problem with the shoulder pads, but then again these guys will be sporting Cadian arms in my force.

I think the greatcoats looked best in the beginning with buttons, no shoulder pads, and a much more armed and armored but still flexible look to them. Guess we just have to wait to see how this project ends up.

i would love it when the great coats come out-cant wait

The latest and greatest.

lord_blackfang wrote:

The latest and greatest.

You know what? I actually really like that model.

i really like these actually, they'll be useful for padding out my necromunda guys

Yes please!
I'd love about 60 of these guys painted up to be filthy and with proper trenchy scenic bases.

Very cool! That´s what I want.

M.

The gun will get smaller (comment from WGF) but that's pretty much the plan.

I'm happy.

Arbites army ho!

Kid_Kyoto wrote:The gun will get smaller (comment from WGF) but that's pretty much the plan.

I'm happy.

Arbites army ho!

After all those renders, that really reassures me that these guys might turn out okay.

You know, those aren't too bad with the actual weapon in hand, etc. but its really going to come down to cost for me. I'm hearing they want to put 3 guys to a sprue and then load it up with a bunch of bits I dont want like oversized beard heads and poorly designed miniguns.... If these have a pricetag atall similar to their zulu war brits I will jump all over them. If they have a GW price tag... forget it.

They'll probably cost the same as anything else from Wargames Factory. Also, I'd bet on 5 figures per sprue. That's their norm.

Brother SRM wrote:They'll probably cost the same as anything else from Wargames Factory. Also, I'd bet on 5 figures per sprue. That's their norm.

They've said 3 bodies per sprue, in order to fit heavy and special weapons. So likely 3 for $5 or $6.
IG are 10 for $25


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Got a clarification, the gun in the render is the right size, they just meant the close up was enlarged.

http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/2010/01/13/greatcoat-updates-11310/

Not so impressed with the model, must be the 3d casting which makes it almost look as if the model is somewhat melting...

The gun is great though! Has a lot of potential!

I want to buy these now!!!! When is the ETA on these sprues?

If Wargames Factory would manage it, to cast proper and sharp details, their quality would improve so much.

But without that, the models keep looking like blurry, melting plastic.

lord_blackfang wrote:

The latest and greatest.

every render till now has been so-so to meh, but I really like the look of this render and it gives me hope that they'll produce a good kit.

Wow, that looks really good. Drastic improvement over the previous ones. I'm not necessarily sold on them quite yet, but these are looking better all the time.

This last one is outstanding. Enough detail to be interesting without being over the top. The head is great. The gun is OK. I can definitely see buying an army of these guys.

ender502

I think the melting plastic look is more a result of the sculpts rather than the actual process of makng plastic injection kits out of them.

I think i'll be ordering more now!!

chaos0xomega wrote:I think the melting plastic look is more a result of the sculpts rather than the actual process of makng plastic injection kits out of them.

I think a lot of it is a result of the 3D renders.

I think you and me are saying the same thing.

Some more details from WGF

Just finished going over a bunch of ideas and tweaks with Tim including some more heavy weapon options. We'll have more to show off next week.

Coming up are the following weapons:

1. Flame thrower - to crisp up those pesky Zombies

2. Plasma/laser heavy weapon

3. Grenade launcher

We're also finalizing the heads. The cyborg/Space Pirate head is getting some upgrades and we're working on a third helmet type. If anyone has any strong desires for helmets, please let us know!

http://wargamesfactory.lefora.com/2010/01/13/greatcoat-updates-11310/page4/

So still time to get feedback in!

The recent render with the shouldered weapon is far superior to their previous efforts. Finally something that I could consider spending money on. The gun is only "ok" though.

Hehe, those forums are very, um, interesting.